Universal Service for ages 18-25

[371]

Originally Posted by Operator

Bravo, you hit the nail on the head !
That's what BASIC training will do .... Program an expected reaction in certain circumstances.

Cheers

Classic conditioning... you're right about that.

[clarkkent]

Originally Posted by Orion11

Hey clark,

this isnt the first time you have opened my eyes,
coming from someone else i might not take it to heart so much....lol

but you are right.

thank you.

didnt mean to be harsh, language can be very deceptive, i just had an argument with my roomate about this exact topic--he said "whats wrong with community service- thats great!"

and if thats all it was i certainly would agree, just like the military being stationed here in the states, they wrap it in nice language like "disaster preparedness, crowd control etc" but all you have to do is realize they always camoflauge bad things in language.

heres an excerpt from a good article

"George Orwell warned that sloppy language leads to foolish thoughts. One of the worst aspects of our discourse these days is how rarely our political language is used to express honest and clear thought. Of course, part of the fault lies with our schooling which tends to reward the complexity of thought and the use of obscure words. Indeed, there are those like William Buckley, Jr. who have incredibly large vocabularies and also take pleasure in using extremely obscure words to show how erudite they are. Yet, one must agree that the real problem with our political discourse these days is the purposeful use of words to lie and mislead. The result is a political environment that is dangerously toxic.

As George Orwell said in his excellent essay on this topic, the tendency to use unclear language can be a flaw found in any political persuasion. Humans tend to generalize and stereotype which leads to faulty conclusions. For example, it is wrong to say that the poor are lazy. While it might be true that some poor people are lazy, many of the poor work extremely hard for very little gain. Clear and precise language leads to a better understanding of reality and provides a better basis for devising policies regarding the poor. But the real danger according to Orwell comes when people purposely pervert language, because their goal is to mislead people and deny them the ability to make decisions based on accurate information.

The top strategists of the right-wing have used deceptive language in their pursuit of power for several decades. They have spent much money and energy putting together think tanks and focus groups to find ways to “sell” their message. And for years they have used language to demonize Democrats as a way to gain control of the government. Newt Gingrich even produced a booklet that recommended words to use when describing Republicans (strong, moral, citizen, protector) and how to describe their opponents. Some of the words that Gingrich recommended for describing Democrats are: bizarre, corrupt, incompetent, selfish, traitors. And after 9/11 the right-wing radicals gloated that they had won the battle for the hearts and minds of the American public. "


--now keep in mind this rahm guy is a democrat, but in politics there's very little seperation from the republicorp and the democorp, theyre all basically beholden to the same corporate interests (and esoteric ones)

(EDIT- i did look up the actual book quote and it varies slightly--SO i might have misinterpreted the data based on the wording of "basic training" AND civil defense--apparently the book doesnt quite separate "basic training" and basic CIVIL defense training--heres the excerpt "All Americans between the ages of 18 and 25 should be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic civil defense training and community service. This is not a draft — nor is it military. Young people will be trained not as soldiers, but simply as citizens who understand their responsibilities in the event of natural disaster, epidemic, or terrorist attack." so depending on which source is correct, there may or maynot be guns involved--if so , my bad -i was reacting to altered text!)

[orb]

Are we really? I mean we are thaught that right. Evolution, darwinsim, survival of the fittest. That when all civility is gone, everyone regresses just to an animalistic state for themselves, everyone, no exceptions. I hardly this that is the case.

Yet I wonder, is that because we are like that or because we have been nurtured like that. And some people say if our genes were changed millenia ago by aliens, we ceased to be human, and can't really use that excuse anymore.

Maybe the reason people regress to riots and stuff, is because for their whole life by in large they live in a false environment, where their needs are never really handled and it is all bottled up, and the only way they can feel their needs is met is by material things, so the stealing makes them feel secure to get that in times of crisis.

Not sure, we should just take the way out, we are all animals. I think we can do better.

Now for me, I don't want a gun if society breaks down. Expecially if this comes true what people say and we lose 4.5 billion people. After I bury a few thousand people, I most likley will just say buddy, if you need to kill me, take me now, I am just tired of the smell and look of death.

Maybe we need some public service to teach people how to solve conflicts with words, and to share, and to grow a garden, or to kill a few animals themselves instead of paying the butcher to do it, and realize, the white protein was once living. I can get behind that.

Originally Posted by 371

We are animals. Intelligent animals yes, but in times of intense crisis our animal instincts kick in.

[Operator]

Originally Posted by orb

Yet I wonder, is that because we are like that or because we have been nurtured like that.

Yes, right ... see my post http://projectavalon.net/forum/showp...3&postcount=50

Originally Posted by orb

I can get behind that.

So, you are still behind it ?

Originally Posted by orb

Maybe we need some public service to teach people how to solve conflicts with words, and to share, and to grow a garden, or to kill a few animals themselves instead of paying the butcher to do it, and realize, the white protein was once living.

Don't worry, before it is in place you will probably get the experience otherwise ...

Cheers

[JohnWdoe]

I think its a sad day when they are telling people to "train" for biochemical attacks, i really can't believe people would fall for this but the reality of the situation is always its own.

We have the national guard for this matter and i don't see how "training" people for civil unrest and bio attacks is very constitutional...

Doesn't this honestly freak people out a bit? we have high level people coming out and stating dates on attacks, i wont mention them because everyone will finger bite to the day but seriously is this right??

They seem to be prepping us for an event to take place, but i speak in theoretical rhetoric and wish more people would understand that when reading doom and gloom.

I don't like this at all and the thought of me being yelled at by some Army official is just ludicrous... How many people would fall for this Communistic **** when need be? god i hope none.

Great thread guys your all very , Clark Kent you are on fire tonight my friend he,

Enjoy your night boys!

[Orion11]

[

Originally Posted by JohnWdoe

I think its a sad day when they are telling people to "train" for biochemical attacks, i really can't believe people would fall for this but the reality of the situation is always its own.

We have the national guard for this matter and i don't see how "training" people for civil unrest and bio attacks is very constitutional...

Doesn't this honestly freak people out a bit? we have high level people coming out and stating dates on attacks, i wont mention them because everyone will finger bite to the day but seriously is this right??

They seem to be prepping us for an event to take place, but i speak in theoretical rhetoric and wish more people would understand that when reading doom and gloom.



I don't like this at all and the thought of me being yelled at by some Army official is just ludicrous... How many people would fall for this Communistic **** when need be? god i hope none.

Great thread guys your all very , Clark Kent you are on fire tonight my friend he,

Enjoy your night boys!

true that bro, tru dat. lol

[JohnWdoe]

Originally Posted by Orion11

[



true that bro, tru dat. lol

haha Hope all is well Orion your a hell of a guy, enjoy a nice cup of joe don't worry i didn't use any artificial sweetener haha

[Operator]

Originally Posted by JohnWdoe

We have the national guard for this matter and i don't see how "training" people for civil unrest and bio attacks is very constitutional...

Hi John,

Now this is the other side to be avoided. Better not assume somebody else is taking care of it for you.
That's why it is a mess now anyway (IMHO).

I am against that authorities force you to learn what THEY want you to learn.
However you should learn ! But take your own responsibility ....

I don't like gloom/doom predictions either ... but thinking that everything will be smooth for the coming year is naive.
So learn and taking precautions IS a wise thing to do. I sincerely hope that many people keep their balance and know
what to do when TSHTF.

Cheers

[JohnWdoe]

Originally Posted by Operator

Hi John,

Now this is the other side to be avoided. Better not assume somebody else is taking care of it for you.
That's why it is a mess now anyway (IMHO).

I am against that authorities force you to learn what THEY want you to learn.
However you should learn ! But take your own responsibility ....

I don't like gloom/doom predictions either ... but thinking that everything will be smooth for the coming year is naive.
So learn and taking precautions IS a wise thing to do. I sincerely hope that many people keep their balance and know
what to do when TSHTF.

Cheers

Oh yes i understand that, but i live in a small town with 4000 people in the middle of no where, so i don't see any value to arming myself, none at all.

We have alot of farmers here and i have enough meat in my freezer to last me a good while, around here food is plentiful and veggies are just so great and fresh.

If panic did strike my town i would walk out and calm them all as best as i could, in a time of crisis i will always do my best do help and bring people back to the place they call calmness. I love people and its my duty as human (not a civilian) to help and give people what i always seek - peace.

Do unto others as they would do unto you, so classic yet so true.

[Operator]

Originally Posted by JohnWdoe

Oh yes i understand that, but i live in a small town with 4000 people in the middle of no where, so i don't see any value to arming myself, none at all.

Hi John,

I didn't mention 'arms' ....
But if I would have it would have said .... arm yourself with knowledge.

Cheers

[davefla73]

Originally Posted by ghglenn

Hitler Youth?

i was about to say the same thing! but the where in better shape then ours are lol.

[minimeister]

I haven't heard anyone bring up yet that the proposed volunteer force is a remade perversion of the constitutional militia. Remade because the stated purpose of the Obama squad is exactly what the original intent of the militia was. Perverted because while the constitutional militia promotes true community strength and independence the new initiative is designed to enslave. Otherwise why would they not use the original mechanism?

[Jenny]

As all Obama and/or political threads go to Off Topic, this one is moved to Off Topic as well.

[Ali Quadir]

Originally Posted by Waterman

This idea would make a good Scot laugh, this has nothing to do with taking the high ground.

Compulsory service is immoral, unconstitutional, and not morally lawful.

And on the other hand most countries when they draft you it is to teach you to handle guns and explosives. With bald men screaming obscenities at you. Which incidentally also happens to be a place where long term friendships are formed between different levels of society. Where people are taught to be "do'ers". That pulls so many out of a negative spiral. I'm against the draft. I was from a group that had the choice. They were interested in me I told them and have always told that if it were something without the inherent violence I'd do it.

I agree that this should not be compulsory. It should be something that people choose to do with all the positive things the army has to offer. If only half the population would do it for a few months then that would give so many benefits. Not only to getting the nation in prime condition. But also to be a rite of passage like service has always been. It can end up giving more than it takes.

If my country had offered me this possibility I would have taken it.

But I repeat, this should not be compulsory. If it is I agree with the sentiment here that it will eventually change into something far more sinister.