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Old 08-16-2009, 06:54 PM   #376
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please respect native traditions.



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Old 08-16-2009, 07:11 PM   #377
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White Shamans and Plastic Medicine Men is a documentary dealing with the popularization and commercialization of Native American spiritual traditions by Non-Indians. Important questions are asked of those seeking to exploit ritual and sacred ceremony and of those vested with safeguarding sacred ways. This documentary is thematically organized, and deals with romantic stereotypes and copying, the impatience of new age practitioners contrasted to the fact that indigenous spiritual traditions are thousands of years old, and the proselytizing nature of these new age practitioners. The film represents a wide range of voices from several native communities, and speaks to issues of cultural appropriation with humor, righteous anger, and thoughtful insight.


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Old 08-16-2009, 07:23 PM   #378
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Below is the description of the video. it is what the note in the video is
asking people to read.


New-Agers disrespect our sacred traditions and ceremonies because they really have no one authentic source to learn from. Native Americans are outraged at the New-Agers and their disrespect of their ways.

Should Native Americans write a book or something on how it's done correctly, or should they continue let the New-Agers to disrespect their ceremonies without giving them the proper easily-accessable information?

But my making easy accesable information, aren't they selling their ceremonies just like the New-Agers are?

It's very difficult, isn't it?



Last edited by day; 08-16-2009 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 08-16-2009, 07:48 PM   #379
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please respect the stories and traditions we are sharing...but...they are not for sale. they belong to the person who has the right to tell that story or tradition
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Old 08-16-2009, 09:02 PM   #380
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if anyone wants to voice their opinion about these videos about white ego woman and taking away her feathers etc


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Old 08-16-2009, 09:07 PM   #381
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Wado Creator for such a great culture!


Photo by Michael Ging

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Old 08-16-2009, 09:40 PM   #382
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Wado Oliver ... beautiful ...
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Old 08-16-2009, 09:46 PM   #383
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Old 08-16-2009, 10:20 PM   #384
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John Trudell has suffered greatly. In his great suffering
He was blessed with a voice.
This voice has spoken for native nations and people
around the world

He has lost his family, all but two of his children,
which came from his first marriage.

you can hear his story on google video
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...ient=firefox-a
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Old 08-16-2009, 10:54 PM   #385
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Apache mother and baby-picture taken in 1906 by Edward S.Curtis

Love always
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Old 08-18-2009, 11:41 AM   #386
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Blessings
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Old 08-18-2009, 11:48 PM   #387
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Old 08-19-2009, 12:08 AM   #388
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Old 08-19-2009, 12:13 AM   #389
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Old 08-19-2009, 12:41 AM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by day View Post
please respect the stories and traditions we are sharing...but...they are not for sale. they belong to the person who has the right to tell that story or tradition
Many do not know, and in their innocence appear to disrespect. Please gently teach us.
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Old 08-19-2009, 12:58 AM   #391
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It was more than five years ago when I met my native mother. I met her in a dream. We sat at the Sacred Fire.

A few days after I met her in real time. We had much to talk about. She gave me many things to help me on my journey, our meeting caused us both to grow, feel pain, feel love and we did.

We dont have to talk much. Talking alot takes away from understanding.

We could talk about the reserve, I could talk about my grandmother, who stayed with me in spirit throughout my young life.

These are the ways of my family.
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:24 AM   #392
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I will say somethng in a gentle way, but if a person persists, what happens, I must show them the possible consequence of their actions.

Of the actions of others.

You will see that this is doing you a kindness .....not the opposite.
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:30 AM   #393
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My Elders have asked me to start sharing my story, I am sharing this a little bit on this thread.

Many of you are interested in Native culture. Many of you have the proper respect, but if you go to a native person and begin to tell them all about your new age experiences, and how you were a native american in a past life, dont expect them to be interested or that this is valuable information.

The new age books have taken advantage of our culture. IF I have spoken this to you in a quiet voice, your voice will think that cant be so.

but I have shown you the consequence of peoples lack of sensitivity to our culture.

Did you know that many so called shaman go to the elders but never help them after? what do you call that?

What if someone came to your grandmother or grandfather and said tell us all that you know. and then write books on it and make lots of money?

How would this make you feel about your own family?

Respect our culture, dont tell us how much you know, dont try to fill us with all the great things you do spiritually, the timber of you inner being will tell us more if your actions will speak with your words.
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:40 AM   #394
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Bravo day
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:17 AM   #395
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Your anger is very palpable Day, and I'm sure it's born from great injustice. I feel that most here on Avalon are spiritual people who seek greater understanding and truth. They are not trying to disrespect your culture or anyone's belief system.

I was raised Roman Catholic, my step father adopted me when I was 13 and he is of Mayan descent. This helped lead me to looking into native spirituality. I found immense love and understanding in a spirit filled Lutheran Church, followed my path into Messianic Judaism and gained much understanding of the traditions, idioms, and messages only found if seeing things from that understanding. I have been fortunate to study with and fellowship with people of divergent spiritual paths. All of this searching has brought me to a place of appreciation for each path and a feeling of ultimate unity and oneness of spirit in the ultimate creator God/dess.

Something that does bother me, and maybe it shouldn't, but I sense a great disrespect and almost vehement hatred toward "white" people and their seeking of truth. A thousand good deeds go unheralded, while one bad deed is amplified and that is all people seem to see. Truth is the same no matter the religion, language, race, culture.

I loved the heartbeat drumming meditation circle. How the rythmic pounding in time to a heartbeat aided in going deeper on a spirit journey. I loved saying the rosary as a meditative tool and discovering how it was not a chore of saying 10 Hail Mary's, an Our Father, Glory be, but a method to disconnect from out babbling mind and go into spirit and commune with God. So many methods for connecting are out there, and yet some want to focus on one path is the right way and all other paths are wrong and lead to darkness. I am not saying you are judging others paths Day, for I see your hurt and anger over some abusing the wisdom and kindness of the Native American Path to make a buck. But, there is this tone on many threads of putting down those who are of a "white" heritage who have given many wonderful things to the world, and followed God as best they could.

Methods of prayer, dances, ritual and ceremonies are all wonderful things to me if they bring me to a place of Divine oneness, and an ability to express love to all that is. I care not what culture brought them about, for I love and respect them all.
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Old 08-19-2009, 06:49 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by Unified Serenity View Post
Your anger is very palpable Day, and I'm sure it's born from great injustice. I feel that most here on Avalon are spiritual people who seek greater understanding and truth. They are not trying to disrespect your culture or anyone's belief system.

I was raised Roman Catholic, my step father adopted me when I was 13 and he is of Mayan descent. This helped lead me to looking into native spirituality. I found immense love and understanding in a spirit filled Lutheran Church, followed my path into Messianic Judaism and gained much understanding of the traditions, idioms, and messages only found if seeing things from that understanding. I have been fortunate to study with and fellowship with people of divergent spiritual paths. All of this searching has brought me to a place of appreciation for each path and a feeling of ultimate unity and oneness of spirit in the ultimate creator God/dess.

Something that does bother me, and maybe it shouldn't, but I sense a great disrespect and almost vehement hatred toward "white" people and their seeking of truth. A thousand good deeds go unheralded, while one bad deed is amplified and that is all people seem to see. Truth is the same no matter the religion, language, race, culture.

I loved the heartbeat drumming meditation circle. How the rythmic pounding in time to a heartbeat aided in going deeper on a spirit journey. I loved saying the rosary as a meditative tool and discovering how it was not a chore of saying 10 Hail Mary's, an Our Father, Glory be, but a method to disconnect from out babbling mind and go into spirit and commune with God. So many methods for connecting are out there, and yet some want to focus on one path is the right way and all other paths are wrong and lead to darkness. I am not saying you are judging others paths Day, for I see your hurt and anger over some abusing the wisdom and kindness of the Native American Path to make a buck. But, there is this tone on many threads of putting down those who are of a "white" heritage who have given many wonderful things to the world, and followed God as best they could.

Methods of prayer, dances, ritual and ceremonies are all wonderful things to me if they bring me to a place of Divine oneness, and an ability to express love to all that is. I care not what culture brought them about, for I love and respect them all.

these may be your feelings but I can assure you ... that it is not anger, but something far deeper that you maybe cannot understand.

I thank you for sharing your story, but you must remember that to respect that it is your story and should not be a cookie cutter blueprint idea for every native person.

i would also caution you about making blanket statements regarding all people.

I have met some incredible people here on Avalon who understand the story very well and are in full agreement with the videos trying to wake people up about the misuse of culture.

what you call anger others call strength.. so you see it is relative to your own experience and not necessarily in truth.

while it is interesting that you stepfather is mayan and how this led you to broaden your cultural experience, it is not the same as having native blood and knowing the history in one's dna

Perhaps one culture has only psychology to understand things in, but we have the Spirit, the Creator and for that we are diligent in wanting to keep these teachings pure and with the respect necessary.

These teachings are thousands of years old and will survive in tact despite what anyone else believes or says.

perhaps you could try to understand that .. instead of believing that you know what other people are thinking
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:48 AM   #397
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Quote:
Something that does bother me, and maybe it shouldn't, but I sense a great disrespect and almost vehement hatred toward "white" people and their seeking of truth.
Ahh...but seeking of the truth is exactly what is necessary before you can take these teachings and call them your own. Then steal them and sell them as your own.

Is it not enough that we the white man took their land for our own..then made treaties and broke them over and over again....only to expect them to teach us of their ways handed down for longer then any of our culture could know.

I, a white woman...and US citizen hang my head in shame when I see articles and videos like this...and I only ask forgiveness, and permission to walk this land that rightfully belongs to you and your people Day.
Forgive me for entering this thread with my views..as the ones that you have presented are so much more beautiful, and for that I thank you for sharing them.


The truth in a political modern day statement....


One Big Reservation


A look into the future of the United States, is most apparent on many of our Reservations. To understand what our future holds, we must first look to the past. It is my belief that history repeats itself. In 1830 President Andrew Jackson and Congress passed the Indian Removal Act. In 1835, President Jackson stated that, “all preceding experiments, for the improvement of the Indians have failed”.
Thus, began the socialization of the American Indian. We have become tribes and nations, totally dependent on the government. I have to say, President Jackson's plan has failed. With unemployment reaching some 95% on some reservations, and poverty levels higher than the great depression, we are a people at the mercy of the government.
The experiment began with the taking of our lands, culture and way of life. It was then that we were expected to become “civilized”. The government in return for our land, in most cases, gave us worthless remote land, food supplies and even clothing and housing. Each year, the United States Government allows us funds, as a repayment of stolen lives.
It is true as long as we live on reservations we pay no taxes. But, if we leave the reservation, as many have, we are no different than any other American. When our children need new schools, health care or veterans benefits, we must ask congress for the funds. This in itself shows how deeply socialism is engrained in our society.
The funds from Congress, are far short of sustaining life as most Americans know it. Jobs are almost non- existant as, many reservations in the western United States, are at least 200 miles from a larger town. Health care is the worst in the entire country. There are many examples of children and the elderly being denied health care thinking, why do we not leave? The answer is not as simple as you think. With the nearest town 200 miles away, and no job or car, its not all that easy. We are trapped in a circle of poverty.
The treaties of the past, were signed to help the American Indian. They were promises of health care for our children, and to help build a life more “suitable” for the rest of America. Treaties have been broken and are children are hungry, cold and in many cases have little hope.
Which leads me to the future of this nation. It is clear the socialism of the American Indian has not worked. The path that Obama and Congress are leading this nation, is a clear path to becoming
“One Big Reservation”.

They have taken over the banks, the cars and now want to take over health care. They have attempted to cripple the oil, gas and coal industires. Unemployment is at almost 10%, with the only job growth being in government jobs. Now you childrens health could be in the hands of the same people who control our health care, and veterans. One only needs to visit with a Native American or a veteran to see how this will turn out.
Many would say, we get free health care and benifits, my arguement is that it is not free, it is repayment of a debt by the U. S. Govenment that was promised to us in treaties many years ago. They have not honored there part of the treatie. So, the question is, can the U.S. government be trusted? I am sure the Lakota would say, “No”. They recently succseaded from the union, due to broken treaties.
Socailism will destroy America the same way it has destroyed the American Indian. If we are going to learn anything from the tribes and nations, it should be that the experiment has failed.
I implore all Americans to look at us to see thier future. Do not be fooled into thinking the government will take care of health care, finances or overall well being. This is the mistake we have already made. To see the results, visit Pine Ridge South Dakota.
If the rest of the country does not act soon, and stop Obama and Congress, they will turn this country into “One Big Reservation” The ony difference would be, you will be paying taxes, for this you will recieve, poverty, poor health and hopelessness.

timepassages


http://nativeamericansagainstobama.w...s.com/2009/07/


These are present day issues..but have existed for over a hundered years...with no end that I can see.


So when you think you know of the American Indian Culture..think of these truths..and wonder where the desire for mutual respect in culture begins.


Sorry to have broken my silence on these matters..but I could not refrain..this thread is so much more..and I do hope you continue to share these teachings.

Last edited by BROOK; 08-19-2009 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:00 AM   #398
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Let's keep the focus on preserving native traditions and leave Mr.O out of it for once.

I have to agree with Day though. If you post information fro a native that is not yours, please give credit where it's due.

Our people have lost lots of things but we are not going to allow others to pillage our traditions any longer.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:05 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by Humble Janitor View Post
Let's keep the focus on preserving native traditions and leave Mr.O out of it for once.

I have to agree with Day though. If you post information fro a native that is not yours, please give credit where it's due.

Our people have lost lots of things but we are not going to allow others to pillage our traditions any longer.
Humble..it's not about Mr O..it's about reality..and Social awarness
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:43 AM   #400
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I am so happy to see more and more people showing sincere respect toward the Indian culture. Day, your mission here is to teach us and you are doing it right way. We are all thankful to you for creating such a beautiful place on Avalon. Wado.

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