Catalan Referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood' but 'not seeking traumatic split'

[Cidersomerset]

I have been to Spain quite a few times and enjoyed each visit the most recent
was to Barcelona for a long weekend celebrating my 50th birthday and a fun
time was had by all......


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Catalan referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood'

Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont says the Spanish region has won the right to
statehood following a contentious referendum that was marred by violence.He said the
door had been opened to a unilateral declaration of independence.

Catalan officials later said 90% of those who voted backed independence in Sunday's
vote. The turnout was 42.3%.Spain's constitutional court had declared the poll illegal
and hundreds of people were injured as police used force to try to block voting.

read more...

-kESpxWLk-8

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41463719
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Catalonia referendum: 'Spanish authorities are the criminals'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9UGpBZz7WU

Published on 1 Oct 2017
The Spanish region of Catalonia is voting in a referendum on independence that has
faced serious opposition from the country’s central government. Spanish police
have been accused of carrying out a brutal crackdown against those participating in
the referendum.Al Jazeera's John Hendren reports from Barcelona.

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Catalan Referendum: "What happened today was unacceptable"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gutcUJ-sa0E

Published on 1 Oct 2017...France 24

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Catalan referendum: what is happening in Barcelona?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWCb31-YLlE

Published on 1 Oct 2017...Channel 4 news
Jonathan Rugman is in Barcelona to see what the reaction is to the referendum on
Catalan independence. Violence has broken out between those wanting to vote face
and the police trying to stop them. The Spanish government have said the vote is
illegal, pro-referendum protesters have been camping out across the weekend at
polling stations to ensure they stay open.

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Catalan referendum: Spain region 'not seeking traumatic split'

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/15CD5/production/_98110398_88803684-8078-4294-8c92-1b4dc89df7bf.jpg
Carles Puigdemont appealed for international mediation to help solve the growing crisis

Catalan President Carles Puigdemont has said he is not planning a "traumatic" split with
Spain, after a disputed independence referendum on Sunday.

He said he wanted a new understanding with the central government in Madrid.

Catalan officials say voters overwhelmingly backed secession. Madrid has warned it could
suspend autonomy of the wealthy north-eastern region.Spain's top court banned the vote
and almost 900 people were hurt as Spanish police tried to stop it going ahead.Officers
from the national police and paramilitary Civil Guard seized ballot papers and boxes at
a number of polling stations. Thirty-three police officers were injured on Sunday, Catalan
medical officials said.

read more....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41472985

[Cidersomerset]

Spain like France , Germany , Italy , UK and many others are made up of smaller
states and kingdoms that combined over the centuries for various reasons usually
war or marriage.....

Pick a century and the borders would have changed...

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/spain/taifaspain.gif

===================================================

2017.....


https://www.eyeonspain.com/userfiles/image/mac75/Spain4.jpg

Catalan separatism explained

CI3sJKMQ5uE
Published on 20 Sep 2017

An impartial explanation of Catalan separatism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIvclpJb05g
Published on 7 Nov 2014

[Baby Steps]

Heavy handed tactics from the Spanish State will be counter productive.

Silence in the face of Spanish State violence in the EU halls of power will wake a lot of people up.

I love this guy , and his humour, but he might end up laughing on the other side of his face!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbFhlfnJep0&t=143s

[Cidersomerset]

I love this guy Risidas , and his humour, but he might end up laughing
on the other side of his face!

You might be right , Risidas was correct about Cameron and it reminded
me of the classic Manuel clip from Fawlty Towers , which the EU is turning
into. He also mentions Farage who took a call from Louise in Spain on
his radio show live......Risidas does have an amusing if annoying laugh..LOL


I know nothing ... I am from Barcelona

nX7CeTXoxyU

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Catalonia Caller Describes Scenes Of Panic And Fear During Independence Referendum
dqjmxCx5Lro
Published on 1 Oct 2017

Riot police have been deployed, and used rubber bullets, to try and shut
down the Catalan referendum.Catalonia's emergency services say 38 people
have been injured in clashes with Spanish police during today's indepenence vote.

Rubber bullets were fired into crowds during a sit-down protest in Barcelona.
Spain's central government ordered officers to shut down polling stations
across the region in what it says is an illegal referendum.Louise is in a town
south west of Barcelona, she told Nigel Farage on LBC people are very scared.

[enigma3]

Once again, Joseph Farrell has an interesting take on the Catalan situation. His speculation is that the Catalan leaders see much more money being sent to Madrid than returns to Catalonia. Catalonia/ Barcelona is the hub in Spain for all illegal activities, be they drugs, prostitution, child slavery sales, etc. That is where the real money is. The leaders of Catalonia see this and want a bigger slice of that pie. They don't want independence, just more money. But that money is totally illicit. It comes from the dregs of human behavior. Money I would not touch. Yet that is what they want. An interesting take indeed Joseph. And now the leader of Catalonia is saying they don't want anything radical like independence, just negotiations. Ha! Mr Farrell may be onto something here. As sick and sordid as it is in the Kali Yuga.

[Froddo]

Esencial reading...

http://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_three_myths_about_catalonias_independence_movement

[Froddo]

The referendum of Catalonia is a big fraud ... !!!

This video is in Spanish, but it is self explanatory ... Catalan nationalist volunteers carry the ballot boxes before the voting starts inside the black bags, but by mistake, one falls to the ground, and everyone realizes that unrna already had votes inside ... !!!

This has happened in many polling stations.

https://youtu.be/XhssxLsM-k4

Social networks are full of photos of people who have voted 4 or 5 times ...some of them here

https://www.elconfidencial.com/espana/cataluna/2017-10-01/irregularidades-votaciones-referendum-cataluna_1453255/

In other places nacionalists voted in the street several times, again without any control ...

https://youtu.be/EL174sd2Tmw

Of course, the polling stations were composed only by nationalists, so the counts of votes are not guaranteed either ...

In one word...fraud...!!!

[indigopete]

Esencial reading...

http://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_three_myths_about_catalonias_independence_movement

Are you aware that's a European Council on Foreign Relations commentary ?

P.S. The fact that somebody posted a video of themselves voting 5 times doesn't mean squat. The Scottish referendum had a hundred times more reported anomalies than the Catalan one did.

Also, there was never a anything near a majority for independence in Catalonia until they completed a 15 year process of making constitutional amendments to their regional Statute, getting it passed by their own parliament, getting it passed by the Spanish parliament (successfully), holding a referendum on it and then finally, having it all thrown back in their face by a 6-4 majority verdict in the constitutional court. Even that action only was brought to bear after a retrospective challenge by the Spanish national conservatives.

At that point the party that had held the centre ground of Catalan politics and had been unionist till then, threw in the towel and shifted the centre of gravity towards independence.

Of course the Spanish constitution doesn't allow for secession, hence the goon squads being sent in to kick people's heads in while they're voting, spray them with rubber bullets, pull them out of voting stations by the hair and wallop them with battons. To most reasonable people, an "illegal referendum" means that it doesn't carry any statutory weight. But to some of a more medieval bent, it actually means you can't put bits of paper into boxes.

If you really think it's a fraud, consider this for a moment: The brutality of Sunday wasn't very widespread. It was concentrated in a few select places but it was severe. The videos started appearing on the twitter stream bang on 9 O'Clock. Also, the Civil Guard paramilitary police could have closed down all the polling stations, but they didn't.

Conclusion: the police raids were not "law enforcement", but a message. A message to the population which read "if you go out to vote today, this is what will happen to you".

In other words, it amounted to the host national government threatening an entire population with violence to counter a civil act of expression that it found politically challenging. It wasn't "illegal", it was suspended by a Spanish judge and postponed. I've seen a lot of state coercion and propaganda in my time but never something as bare faced straight out of the Joseph Goebels handbook of mass population arm twisting as that.

Their "Hotel California" constitution that's getting widely quoted at the moment is only 40 years old. If it was 140 years it might carry a bit of weight. The way things are going at the moment though they'll be lucky if it lasts another 10.

[Cidersomerset]

Catalan referendum: Interview with Spain's Foreign Minister Alfonso Dastis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Apxh3W10Uk

Published on 2 Oct 2017
Newsnight’s Mark Urban is joined by Spanish Foreign Minister Alfonso Dastis
to discuss the Catalan referendum. BBC Newsnight

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CATALONIA REFERENDUM - Watch our special edition

j57efAuNcB0
Published on 2 Oct 2017...France 24

[Wind]

Videos like these should speak for themselves, shame on the Spanish government.

rfSpDjO1OBA

[Froddo]

Entire population?
Only radicals make noise...most Catalonians treatened by the nazi radical of ANC and Omnium remains silent...And does not support puigdemont...!!!

[indigopete]

Entire population?
Only radicals make noise...most Catalonians treatened by the nazi radical of ANC and Omnium remains silent...And does not support puigdemont...!!!

I think you might have swallowed a tad too much troll coolaid from twitter feeds.

About 40-50% support them, 10-20% support the Spanish nationalists and 30% are socialists. That last group is currently evaporating given the labour party's alignment with the conservatives of late. Carbon copy of what happened in Scotland post their 2014 referendum.

10 years ago, support for Catalan independence from Spain barely got above 15%. The reason it's a majority now is not due to ANC "nazis" but to the fact that the region is no longer part of Spain voluntarily but through coercion.

[Froddo]

I totally disagree with you...
Tell me, are you acting on behalf ANC or Omium Cultural...? Your speech totally correspond to them...

[indigopete]

I totally disagree with you...
Tell me, are you acting on behalf ANC or Omium Cultural...? Your speech totally correspond to them...

No. I am acting on behalf of myself - a British external observer who lives in Spain and my observations correspond almost exactly with those of Pepe Escobar (a Brazilian).

https://s1.postimg.org/64emfgvdzj/spain_Catalan_Commentary.png

Full article here: http://www.atimes.com/article/future-eu-stake-catalonia/

Note he mentions the principle of "separation of powers". You may or may not be aware of that principle but it's something you won't hear much about on the Spanish national troll infested comment columns and twitter feeds of the mainstream national media over here.

As he says, it is indeed the "heart of the matter".

[Cidersomerset]

Catalan referendum: Gabriel Gatehouse reports from Barcelona - BBC Newsnight

SXvsLvXydjw

Published on 3 Oct 2017
What next after the contested Catalan referendum? Gabriel Gatehouse reports from Barcelona.

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Nigel Farage says Catalonia referendum shows how the EU treat voters

PUeNyJSEPC0

Published on 3 Oct 2017
(3RD OCT 2017) Subscribe for more Nigel Farage content.

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Catalan referendum: Anti-police strike hits public services

48 minutes ago
From the section Europe

Short vid on link...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41479048
Firefighters joined the crowds in a day of defiant protests

Thousands of people in Catalonia are rallying and blocking roads in protest over
Spanish police violence during Sunday's independence referendum.There is little
public transport across the region, after local trade unions called a strike.
Barcelona's port was at a standstill, union sources said.Almost 900 people were
hurt as police tried to prevent the vote. Thirty-three police officers were also injured.

read more....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41479048

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Central Barcelona in total gridlock as thousands rally after Catalonia referendum

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nLKovcqeMbQ/maxresdefault.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLKovcqeMbQ
Published on 3 Oct 2017
Thousands of protesters caused gridlock on the streets of central Barcelona on
Tuesday morning, as they gathered in front of Placa de la Universitat to
demonstrate against the Catalan independence referendum crackdown.

[Cidersomerset]

Stefan Molyneux walks through legislation and events that have brought
Catalonia to the latest referendum.


The Truth About The Catalonia Independence Referendum

FRU-CL9HNW8

Published on 2 Oct 2017
Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/stefan-molyneu...

[betoobig]

my dear brother you are looking at something in the distance and, probably thanks to that distance, you see it better than us.
Our dear area of Cataluña is been an advance peak of conciousness in Spain. Proof os it is the Anarquy that took place there thanks to the open mindeed people there. Just one example: Maria Montesory ( who developed a great way of education, now used in contries like iceland...in fact her tipe of education was going to be used in all of Spain but, suddenly civil war started)... this anarquy did work awesomely. Cataluña people, as well as Vask people (in fact called the Vask country) have their own way.
We all know here that "dived and conquer" is the main laif motiv of the PTUTB (the powers that used to be)
My dear avalonians this is still part of the divide and conquer stuff, too bad people dont see it.
I like to say i am on the side of free will. They should have been able to decide, but this is great oportunity of smoke, so we dont talk about real issues.
People , once again, ar letting the programs drive them.
i waited to see if any avalonians talked about it, so here i am.
This contrast situation brings to me, not new, good old desires of unity.
Boders are but imaginary lines, let´s celebrate the our diversity and let things fall into place by visualizing true unity through respect of others desires...
This thread is open to anyone willing to defend their ideas about it.
Nothing but love will stand....lol
i love Cataluña and its people....btw i love vask people too... way too much.
dont fall into the delusional.
Big hug to everyone

[Michelle Marie]

Yes to Unity!!

[Foxie Loxie]

Thanks for your take, betoobig! Like you say, most of us are too far away to be able to correctly evaluate the situation. Knowing how events are so cleverly staged this day & age, one hardly knows what to think about anything! :crazy: It has been such an eye opener here on Avalon to learn how everything is "managed" from behind the scenes....may many people in all countries begin to think for themselves & see through the smokescreen that is projected for us. :heart:

[betoobig]

Thanks for your take, betoobig! Like you say, most of us are too far away to be able to correctly evaluate the situation. Knowing how events are so cleverly staged this day & age, one hardly knows what to think about anything! :crazy: It has been such an eye opener here on Avalon to learn how everything is "managed" from behind the scenes....may many people in all countries begin to think for themselves & see through the smokescreen that is projected for us. :heart:

Just a not.
I am from...no.... i was borned in Castilla y León, Burgos, my father too...my mother was borned in Madrid, my grandadies are from Valencia and Galicia... we are all but a big family and i am sorry for all the programed people, the asleep ones...
if you think this out, a little, this is great time of contrsast that rise up in us huge desires, here are mines:
I whish everyone awakes
I whish we all cellebrate diversity
i wihish we all love each other
i whish we all see the REALITY
iwhish i win the lottery
i whish brothers hold their sister in their arms
i whish to see Bill Ryan smiling
i whish fly
i whish this planet is free from ego
i whish everyone love theirselves
and......
it´s done
It´s done
it´s done
it´s done
I whish i can give a big hug to Foxie Loxie

[betoobig]

it´s done
.... truely i like to huge phisicaly to everyone her....one by one..

[betoobig]

This is all staged, from the begining to the end....
now none talks about what the Cataluña gob has robed or what spanish gob has robed....
this is all dived people fighting each other, Catalunians for fake freedome and spanish national police for a salary...truth...boommmm

[sunwings]

I live in Barcelona. My wife and two children are Catalan. I waited 3 hours to vote. This is what the NWO thought of our right to vote.

4GDKVK0eUXo

This is what the NWO order thought of our passive resistance

cTibGHkFcvQ

Women have come forward to explain how they were sexually assulted.

And after a long hard day of hitting thousands of people and injuring hundreds this is how the NWO welcomes their police force home.

miuukfCUGo4

This is how the Catalans are reacting...

Si us plau, avui (ni mai) no insultem, no amenacem (ho estan esperant). Ni cas als provocadors:
CANTEM, SOMRIEM i GAUDIM!!!

Please today (nor never) don't insult them, don't threaten them(they are waiting). don't be provocative:


We sing and enjoy!!!

[Cidersomerset]

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Catalan referendum: Region's independence 'in matter of days'

-0PMR9KSwQk
King Felipe VI: "Catalan society is fractured"

Catalonia will declare independence from Spain in a matter of days,
the leader of the autonomous region has told the BBC.In his first
interview since Sunday's referendum, Carles Puigdemont said his
government would "act at the end of this week or the beginning of next".

Meanwhile, Spain's King Felipe VI said organisers of the vote put
themselves "outside the law".He said the situation in Spain was
"extremely serious", calling for unity.Hundreds of thousands of
people across Catalonia have been protesting over Spanish police
violence during the vote, during which nearly 900 people were hurt.
During the vote, 33 police officers were also injured, local medical
officials said.


read more...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41493014


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Catalonia strikes back over brutality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXbB1Jb0kVk

Published on 3 Oct 2017...France 24

[Cidersomerset]

THE DEBATE - Catalonia: What's the next move?

x0eqhdxpsOY

Published on 3 Oct 2017...France 24

[betoobig]

I live in Barcelona. My wife and two children are Catalan. I waited 3 hours to vote. This is what the NWO thought of our right to vote.

4GDKVK0eUXo

This is what the NWO order thought of our passive resistance

cTibGHkFcvQ

Women have come forward to explain how they were sexually assulted.

And after a long hard day of hitting thousands of people and injuring hundreds this is how the NWO welcomes their police force home.

miuukfCUGo4

This is how the Catalans are reacting...

Si us plau, avui (ni mai) no insultem, no amenacem (ho estan esperant). Ni cas als provocadors:
CANTEM, SOMRIEM i GAUDIM!!!

Please today (nor never) don't insult them, don't threaten them(they are waiting). don't be provocative:


We sing and enjoy!!!

Más españoles de lo que os pensais están con vosotros, ojalá pudiera escribirlo en catalán. Al final los tiranos son los mismos, pero, y lo tengo muy claro, la sociedad catalana se organizaría para limpiar de ladrones su país (igual que los Islandeses). Os deseo, desde Burgos, lo mejor, la independencia (que sería el primer paso). Después "limpiar" la casa sería más fácil. Y . ni qué decir tiene, que fuera del euro os iría mejor. Forca la gent





From Bill: translation added... a little clunky, but the points are clear. :)
More Spaniards than you think are with you; I wish I could write it in Catalan. In the end the tyrants are the same, but, and I see it very clearly, Catalan society would organize to clean their country of thieves (just like the Icelanders). I wish you, from Burgos, the best, the independence (that would be the first step). Then "cleaning" the house would be easier. And what can one say? Outside the euro, you would be better off. Power to the People...

[Nasu]

Disgusting. If I were from that place, like you, with a heritage that spanned the whole scope of Spain and wanted to remain part of Spain, after all that terrible behavior by the authorities so called i would want to be independent of that. In fact I want to be independent of this planet from time to time, the way it is going. lol.

But we are all on the same ride, so must make it work. It seems to me that the fragile democracy of Spain after Franco is not a democracy at all, just a word to hide the truth, it is a dictatorship, much as the rest of the world. Only when the people scratch beneath the surface do we see our home countries for what they are - Tax and commercial revenue farms for the 1% and so called political classes... N


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdbrVRc2l5U

[Cidersomerset]

The Catalonian referendum was the topic of Nigel's radio show. I don't think Mr
Junker will be tuning in....

This is quite a lively and interesting phone in at times...

The Nigel Farage Show: The EU's Response to Catalonia.
Live LBC - 3rd October 2017

zGySlS0laSI

Published on 3 Oct 2017
The Nigel Farage Show:The EU's Response to Catalonia.
Live LBC - 3rd October 2017. (Edited Version)

[betoobig]

Disgusting. If I were from that place, like you, with a heritage that spanned the whole scope of Spain and wanted to remain part of Spain, after all that terrible behavior by the authorities so called i would want to be independent of that. In fact I want to be independent of this planet from time to time, the way it is going. lol.

But we are all on the same ride, so must make it work. It seems to me that the fragile democracy of Spain after Franco is not a democracy at all, just a word to hide the truth, it is a dictatorship, much as the rest of the world. Only when the people scratch beneath the surface do we see our home countries for what they are - Tax and commercial revenue farms for the 1% and so called political classes... N


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdbrVRc2l5U

agree my brother..... nothing but nacianalist against nacionalist going on here...programed people agoindt programed people

[Wind]

I was going to ask your perspective about this situation earlier in in the week, Juan.
Then you made this thread.. So much trouble in the world. Much love to all.

RAhbH19TvPc

[Cidersomerset]

Catalans take to streets against police violence in referendum vote - BBC Newsnight

OQAdb46v3VU

Published on 4 Oct 2017
Gabriel Gatehouse reports from Barcelona on the protests
against police violence in the Catalan referendum.

[sunwings]

A good analogy is to imagine an unhappy forty year marriage. The woman has been trying for years to explain to her husband why she is unhappy. The husband just refuses to listen, refuses to sit down to talk and continues insulting and abusing her. When the woman goes to the courts for a divorce they quickly point out that the agreement of their marriage is permanent. Now the children of this marriage are waking up and saying we need to claim back our sovereignty. We need to get up off our knees and stand side by side against our abusive father.

The world leaders, E.U. and U.N. have been very quiet. This is far more serious than Brexit. Britons played the game by the rules. In Catalonia we are attempting (passively) to throw away the rule book. I really feel this is more than a push for independence. This is humanity throwing off the shackles. Yesterday we shut down the country. Tractors blocked motorways. Young, old, frail, rich and poor were standing side by side to close down the cities. Every night at 10pm millions of us bang pots and pans in protest and we will continue to do this.

In this clip the people pushed the police back, stopping them from entering the school and taking away the box of votes. Hands in the air, chanting we will vote! No violence, just standing shoulder to shoulder.

l1pM7Jjdxao

[indigopete]

agree my brother..... nothing but nacianalist against nacionalist going on here...programed people agoindt programed people

The rules of aerodynamics explain how an airplane is able to fly. Anything that moves through air reacts to aerodynamics.

[Baby Steps]

We have the Scottish example in the UK, and we see that the politicians seeking to build the replacement state at a more local level are potentially no less corrupt or anti-democratic than the Politicians in London.

It is also a concern that if the EU functions OK, and is seen to function OK, it could be a driver for bits of many nations to break away - but of course, remaining in the EU. This fragmentation would then make a Macron style agenda for streamlining the EU level political process - ie greater centralisation, less democracy, fewer or no veto rights INEVITABLE. it is happening. The Soviet is being built now.

If we wish for more transparency, democracy and individual freedom, then what should we, the people, strategically do? Should we try to bolster the existing nation states, if they are not destabilised can we build more accountability into those structures? Maybe-

My gut says anything promoting more democracy at a local level will get people involved, and that must be good. Those people will push for reform once they begin to see the tyranny.
My gut also says that the brutality going on now, which I saw personally there in 1992, will also awaken people. So yes to secession but it is a very either-or argument.

https://i.imgur.com/tlcPCJC.jpg

[Cidersomerset]

CrossTalk: Catalonia Rising

aWgDQ1d6gQE

Published on 4 Oct 2017
The people of Catalonia went to the polls seeking independence.
The Spanish state reacted with force against peaceful voters. Still
again the question arises: What is the EU’s commitment to democracy?
And who is allowed self-determination?
CrossTalking with Matt Qvortrup, Matthew Goodwin, and John Laughland.

[Cidersomerset]

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Pro-independence Catalans defy King Felipe VI's warning


Short vid on link...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41498685
Carles Puigdemont spoke to the BBC on Tuesday evening

Pro-independence Catalan leaders are pressing ahead despite an emphatic warning
from King Felipe VI.Catalan President Carles Puigdemont told the BBC he would
declare independence "at the end of this week or the beginning of next".
The European Union said it was "time to talk" to find a solution to the crisis in
Catalonia.Commission Vice-President Frans Timmermans said the Spanish
constitution must be followed.Mr Timmermans, addressing the European
Parliament, described the images of violence from Catalonia as "saddening", but
emphasised the importance of upholding the rule of law.

In his intervention, late on Tuesday, King Felipe branded Sunday's referendum in
the north-eastern Spanish region illegal and undemocratic.But correspondents say
his failure to acknowledge the violent repression of the vote has fired up rather
than deterred independence supporters.Meanwhile, Spain's high court has
summoned the head of Catalonia's regional police force to testify as a suspect in a
investigation of alleged sedition - inciting rebellion against the state.

Josep Lluís Trapero and three other people are expected to appear in court on
Friday in a move likely to inflame sentiment further amid Spain's deepest political
crisis in decades, say correspondents.

read more...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41498685

[Cidersomerset]

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Catalonia referendum: Spain apologises to injured Catalans

The Spanish government's representative in Catalonia has
apologised to those injured during police efforts to stop
Sundays independence referendum.

read more...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41523250

[Cidersomerset]

Catalan leader wants to 'follow people's will for independent state'

L7wRlHWTQNE

Published on 10 Oct 2017
The ballots say Yes to independence this is the will that I want to
go forward with," Mr Puigdemont tells parliament."At this historical
moment as the president of Catalonia, I want to follow people's will
for Catalonia to become an independent state."
Article share tools

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Catalan leader suspends declaration of independence,
offers dialogue with Madrid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26lEzTUMzlA
Published on 10 Oct 2017
The Catalan leader says he "assumes the mandate that Catalonia should
become an independent state in the form of a republic." Local leaders
signed what they called “a declaration of independence”, suspending it
temporarily though to facilitate dialogue with Madrid



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Catalonia: Spain issues deadline to separatists

11th October 2017

31 minutes ago

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41588819

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[Cidersomerset]

As Catalonia Plans Independence from Spain, Julian
Assange Advises Organizers on Secure Messaging

ny0HHSm8EUw

Published on 10 Oct 2017

https://democracynow.org - Barcelona’s Mayor Ada Colau is calling for
Spain to remove thousands of state police who have been deployed to
Catalonia ahead of tonight’s expected declaration of independence by
regional President Carles Puigdemont, possibly triggering intervention
by Spanish forces. We speak with WikiLeaks founder and editor-in-chief
Julian Assange, who has been advising those pushing to secede on how
to communicate securely even as the state pushes back.

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Can Spain keep it together? Madrid ponders direct rule in Catalonia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSAzXz0crW8

Published on 11 Oct 2017....France 24

[Cidersomerset]

Catalonia Countdown: Madrid gives Puigdemont until Thursday to clarify region's position

ogPgMz7BqEM

Published on 16 Oct 2017
The president of Catalonia now has until Thursday to definitively state whether the region is
going ahead with trying to break away from Spain. A deadline set by Madrid for a 'yes' or no'
answer elapsed earlier on Monday, but the Catalan leader still refused to clarify the position.
And now leaders in Madrid are pushing for a decisive answer.

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Catalonia independence: Madrid demands "a simple Yes or No response"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aqkZUlQZsM

Published on 16 Oct 2017...France 24

[Bill Ryan]

From http://bbc.com/news/world-europe-41646142, a few minutes ago. (This is sure to help... :facepalm: )

Two Catalan separatists in Spanish custody


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/0D60/production/_98342430_ed68fa02-620d-46b2-b856-dc7fd34c51d2.jpg

A Spanish judge has remanded two key members of the Catalan independence movement in jail.

Jordi Sánchez, who heads the Catalan National Assembly (ANC), and Jordi Cuixart, leader of Omnium Cultural, are being held without bail while they are under investigation for sedition.

The men are seen as leading figures in organising a 1 October independence vote, which Spanish courts suspended.
The government in Madrid branded the vote illegal.

Hours before High Court judge Carmen Lamela ruled that the two men should be held in pre-trial detention, the court freed the head of Catalonia's police force, Josep Lluis Trapero.

Prosecutors had called for him to be held in detention.

[Cidersomerset]

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Catalonia: Protests after Spain detains separatists

Tens of thousands have gathered in Barcelona for a candle-lit protest after
two leaders of the Catalan separatist movement were jailed. Jordi Sánchez
and Jordi Cuixart are being held without bail while they are under investigation
for sedition.The men were leading figures in the disputed 1 October independence
vote, which Madrid has branded illegal.Spain's Constitutional Court appeared to
back central government's position on Tuesday, ruling the vote void.

It had initially suspended the law used by Catalan authorities to call the referendum.

However, Catalan government spokesman Jordi Turull suggested neither the court
decision nor the imprisonment of Mr Sánchez and Mr Cuixxart was going to stop the
drive for independence, telling reporters "surrender is not something this government
is considering".

read more......http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41655095

[Cidersomerset]

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Spain warns Catalonia on self-rule as deadline looms

Spain will move to suspend Catalonia's autonomy unless the region's
leader drops his push for independence, the deputy prime minister says.


read more....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41664839

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Catalonia Referendum: "We need to organize an agreed referendum, it is only way out"

uuG7JjcAjSM

Published on 18 Oct 2017....France 24

[Cidersomerset]

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Catalonia crisis: Spain moves to suspend autonomy

Spain is to start suspending Catalonia's autonomy from Saturday,
as the region's leader threatens to declare independence.

The government said ministers would meet to activate Article 155
of the constitution, allowing it to take over running of the region.

Catalonia's leader said the region's parliament would vote on
independence if Spain continued "repression".

read more...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41678086

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Spain 'goes nuclear' on Catalonia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfuV1_oRhvs

Published on 19 Oct 2017...France 24
'Russian Meddling '
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Moment of truth: Spain sets in motion direct rule over Catalonia

V2DTFzuOqEM

Published on 19 Oct 2017...France 24

[Cidersomerset]

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Catalonia vote: Spain expected to impose direct rule

The Spanish cabinet is expected to approve measures allowing
the government to impose direct rule over Catalonia.

Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy meets with his cabinet almost
three weeks after the region held a referendum.

The Spanish government says the vote was illegal, but Catalan
leader Carles Puigdemont says he has been given a mandate
to declare independence.

As a result, the central government is preparing to take back power.

read more

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41704759

[Cidersomerset]

'Coup government': Thousands protest power transfer from Barcelona to Madrid

TmI9-N_S9HY

Published on 21 Oct 2017
The head of the Catalan parliament, Carme Forcadell, has denounced Madrid’s
decision to transfer the powers from the regional authorities to the central
government as a “coup” as hundreds of thousands took to the streets of
Barcelona in protest. READ MORE: https://on.rt.com/8qd0

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Catalonia independence: Puigdemont 'will not accept' Rajoy plan

The Catalan president, Carles Puigdemont, says the region will not accept
Madrid's plan for direct rule.He described it as the worst attack on Catalonia's
institutions since General Franco's 1939-1975 dictatorship, under which regional
autonomy was dissolved.

Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy's plans include the removal of Catalonia's leaders
and curbs on its parliament. An independence referendum went ahead on 1
October, despite being banned by Spain's Constitutional Court.

read more...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41710873

[sunwings]

On Sunday 22nd Barcelona police say 450,000 people protested in the regional capital, many chanting "freedom" and "independence"

36331

On Friday 27th October the ruling Conservative party will likely take control of Catalonia for the first time since the death of Franco. Despite only having got 8% of the vote they will democratically under the constitution rule the region.

People are shocked that an EU Member State (Spain) has the power to take control of local telecoms, replace media personnel, and dictate TV news.

Julian Assange tweeted "A bet against WikiLeaks is a losing bet. WikiLeaks has a perfect authentication record. El País claims Spain has no political prisoners while Catalan civic leaders are in prison right now for the definitive political crime of 'sedition'. El País is a joke."

Assange later tweeted "Madrid has decided it doesn't like the Catalonian government so it's going to violate the Spanish constitution and compel Catalonia to have an unscheduled election--but only after taking over Catalonia's main media outlets by force to ensure that its proxies win."

The Spanish Foreign minister has been out in force in the world media. Here are a few soundbites from his recent BBC breakfast interview with Andrew Marr.


* "...We are not going to arrest anyone or suspend anything.."
*"...We just want to restore the constitution...and stop Catalan rebels from imposing their will on the people..."
*"...If we Suspend Catalan TV it is just to ensure a two sided view in all the audio visual senses..."

At 6:30mins he enters lala land. He claims all the videos of police brutality and all the photos taken during the 1st October election were just FAKE NEWS! The police were provoked and it was not a deliberate use of force.

wuIAx_oQ-Ss

[Cidersomerset]

‘Worst attacks’ since Franco’s dictatorship – Catalan leader on Madrid’s
steps toward direct rule

GO1Z9wQDd3g

Published on 23 Oct 2017
Catalan President Carles Puigdemont has slammed Madrid’s decision to
impose direct rule on Barcelona as "the worst attack against the institutions
and the people of Catalonia since the military dictatorship of Francisco Franco."

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Catalonia Spain: Officials 'won't follow orders from Madrid'


read more...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41719081

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Madrid takes control of Catalan public broadcaster

FRANCE 24 English

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8enXx9WpSuA

Published on 23 Oct 2017

[Satori]

I know what I am about to say is relatively trivial compared to the gravity of the situation in Spain, but please indulge me a moment. When I look at the photos and videos of the police, law enforcement, military or quasi-military forces and other thugs unleashed on these people, I am drawn to focusing on how they cover their faces to hide their identities.

Hiding of the face in this manner is indicia of illegitimate, and usually criminal, behavior. That speaks volumes to me about what is going on, not only in Spain but elsewhere to be sure.

I believe the body guards for the elitist should be required to show their faces.

I get that sometimes there is a need for head and face protection. Fine--Wear a helmet and a clear face shield. These guys are wearing masks, scarfs, tinted face shields etc. They hide behind their anonymity and all too often, as a result, they do terrible things to people. Things they might not do if they could be readily identified.

There is no legitimate justification for concealing the faces of LEO and military who are acting in a "riot control" situation.

[Cidersomerset]

Tough Choice: Catalonia’s police debate who to obey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rQHi3ytygc

Published on 26 Oct 2017
Spanish leaders are about to start two days of deliberations on whether to seize
direct control of the Catalonia region.The Catalan parliament is threatening to push
ahead with secession, and Madrid has been applying political pressure since the
independence referendum.Whatever happens, the choice is proving divisive for
Catalonia’s police force – RT’s Charlotte Dubenskij explains.

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Puigdemont makes statement on Catalan situation

NsuOryjOEHA

Streamed live 1 hour ago
26 oct 2016
Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont is making a
statement on the outcome of the referendum.

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Catalan crisis: Regional MPs debate Spain takeover bid


Catalan president Carles Puigdemont is leading the drive for the region's independence
Catalonia's parliament is debating the crisis over the regional government's push for
independence from Spain.Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont opted not to call regional
elections as a way of breaking the deadlock with Madrid, asking MPs to discuss the way forward.

The Spanish government plans to strip Mr Puigdemont of his powers.

The Senate is expected to approve the move on Friday. Article 155 of the Spanish constitution
allows Madrid to impose direct rule in the region.Large crowds gathered outside the regional
government building in Barcelona, ahead of Mr Puigdemont's much-anticipated statement.


read more...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41760832

[Cidersomerset]

Direct rule or independence? Catalonia crisis comes to a head

dZPdyPM7zcc

Published on 26 Oct 2017...France 24

[Cidersomerset]

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Catalan crisis: Spain PM Rajoy demands direct rule

Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy has called on senators to approve direct
rule over Catalonia, amid an escalating crisis over the region's push for independence.

He said he wanted to dismiss Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont, his vice-president
and all regional ministers.Mr Rajoy's speech was met with applause in the Spanish
senate, where his Partido Popular has a majority.

Earlier this month Catalonia held a disputed referendum on the issue.

Mr Rajoy said he was calling for exceptional measures because there was no other
choice and said "law, democracy and stability" needed to be returned to Catalonia.
He accused the Catalan government of dividing families and fracturing society.
Many people had already suffered too much, he said, and the uncertainty was
driving businesses out of the region.


read more...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41771294

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Spain PM Rajoy: "The worst violation of the constitution since it was established 30 years ago"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbnfQzwg7_c

FRANCE 24 English 27th Oct 2017

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Catalonia Referendum: watch Spain PM Mariano Rajoy's address to the Senate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4tAB1P32dI

Published on 27 Oct 2017...France 24






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Catalonia At Crossroads: Senate to vote on direct rule over region

p8vmV8iQn70

Published on 27 Oct 2017
Spain's Senate is set for a key vote on the escalating Catalan independence crisis
later on Friday.The Madrid government may decide to impose direct rule on the
breakaway region. It comes after the Catalan president decided against calling a
snap election on Thursday.There has also been a ripple effect across the border in
the south of France, where there's plenty of support for Catalan independence.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

[Cidersomerset]

BREAKING NEWS: Catalonia Declares Independence - BBC News

tNOrpDgKjaU

Published on 27 Oct 2017
The Catalan regional parliament has voted to declare independence from Spain,
just as the Spanish government appears set to impose direct rule.
The move was was backed 70-10 in a ballot boycotted by opposition MPs.
Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy earlier told senators direct rule was needed
to return "law, democracy and stability" to Catalonia.The crisis began when Catalans
backed independence in a disputed vote earlier this month.

The Catalan government said that of the 43% who took part in the referendum, 90%
were in favour of independence. But Spain's Constitutional Court had ruled the vote illegal.
Spain's Senate is still to vote on whether for the first time to enact Article 155 of the
Spanish constitution, which empowers the government to take "all measures necessary
to compel" a region in case of a crisis.It would enable Madrid to fire Catalan leaders, and
take control of the region's finances, police and public media.


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RAW: Moment Catalan parliament declares independence from Spain, crowds cheering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLvKOot7ffA

Published on 27 Oct 2017
Following a secret ballot, separatist lawmakers in Catalonia have passed a motion
to declare independence from Spain. Opposition members boycotted the vote.

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Catalan Parliament Votes to Declare Independence From Spain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0za-YivP4s


Published on 27 Oct 2017...BNO news...
The regional parliament in Catalonia has voted to declare independence from Spain
as Madrid prepares to impose direct rule on the region. The lawmakers have called
for the establishment of a new Catalan Republic. Parliament announced just before
3:30 p.m. local time on Friday that 70 lawmakers had voted in favor of a motion to
secede from Spain. Members from the opposition Socialists and Citizens parties
boycotted the vote.Responding to the news, Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy
called for calm and said the rule of law would be restored in the autonomous
region. Lawmakers in Madrid are preparing to impose direct rule in Catalonia and
remove the region's leader. James Valles reports. (BNO News)

[Cidersomerset]

Catalonia Crisis: Catalan Parliament votes for independence from Spain

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Published on 27 Oct 2017...France 24

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Landmark Vote: Catalan parliament votes for independence from Spain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-5Ip3f1ekY

Published on 27 Oct 2017
It is a historic day for Catalonia. The regions parliament has voted in favour of
declaring independence from Spain. 72 lawmakers voted in favour of Catalan
independence, 10 voted against, two abstained. Both pro-independence lawmakers
and crowds of people outside the parliament did not hesitate to show their elation.

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Catalonia Independence: "We had the responsibility to proclaim the Catalan Republic"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4TkYiMCF1E

Published on 27 Oct 2017...France 24

[Cidersomerset]

Independent Catalonia: Spanish PM appeals to Senate to seize Catalonia & dismiss leader

-v5a5JZHepc

Published on 27 Oct 2017
The Spanish Senate has approved the implementation of Article 155.
It has never been used before and means removing Catalan autonomy.

Spain's prime minister Rajoy said the rule of law in Catalonia will be
restored. The decision comes just minutes after the Catalan parliament
voted in favour of declaring independence from Spain.

RT's Ilya Petrenko and Anastasia Churkina have more.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

[Cidersomerset]

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Catalonia independence: Rajoy dissolves Catalan parliament

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEQblDNbf7g
Mariano Rajoy said fresh elections would be held

Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy is dissolving the Catalan
parliament and calling snap local elections after MPs there voted
to declare independence.Mr Rajoy said the unprecedented imposition
of direct rule on Catalonia was essential to "recover normality".

He is also firing Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont and his cabinet.

The crisis began when Catalan leaders held an independence referendum,
defying a ruling by the Constitutional Court which had declared it illegal.

read more...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41783289

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Catalan independence effort: What will happen next?
Channel 4 News

KS8jkGs9huo
Published on 27 Oct 2017

Huge crowds have been celebrating on the streets of Barcelona, as the
Catalan parliament voted to establish an "independent and sovereign state"
- a declaration met with an immediate response from Spain: direct rule.
And as for Europe, a big no too, as the head of the EU parliament declared
no-one in the bloc would recognise Catalan independence.

How did the crisis reach the point where Catalan leaders declared they had
"no other option" but to push ahead with independence. Catalonia is one of
the richest regions in Spain and already has plenty of autonomy.

[Cidersomerset]

27-Oct-17 TV News: ‘Catalonia declares independence’
Catalan News

v528MoXJ-hE

Published on 27 Oct 2017

The Catalan Parliament declared independence today. In a historic plenary session
almost a month after the referendum, Catalan MPs created an independent
republic. Calls for dialogue and negotiation, which lasted until the very last minute,
failed. With two pro-independence leaders in prison for sedition and a threat to
suspend Catalonia's self-government on the table, President Carles Puigdemont
said it was up to Parliament to decide what happens next. And it did. 70 MPs
voted 'yes' to the declaration of independence, with 10 voting against and 2
abstentions, while the Spanish Senate voted to impose direct rule over Catalonia.
Rajoy declared he would dissolve the Catalan parliament and force early elections.




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A view from Indian media...

Breaking News: Catalonia Parliament votes for secession from Spain
WION

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxuHRycq63s
Published on 27 Oct 2017

Catalonia crisis has escalated as the Parliament has voted for secession from Spain.
The parliament unilaterally voted for the secession. Watch to know more.
World is One News, WION examines global issues with in-depth analysis. We
provide much more than the news of the day. Our aim is to empower people to
explore their world.

[gnostic9]

An interesting article by Gearoid O Colmain on who's behind the Catalan indepenance movement and an israeli bank connection.

Article here

http://www.gearoidocolmain.org/israel-will-bank/

[Satori]

I'm becoming increasingly more concerned about those behind the anti-Trump campaign. This is all nuts, everywhere.

[Cidersomerset]

Undivided Attention: Tensions run high as Spanish PM dissolves Catalan govt

_3aml0quDl4

Published on 28 Oct 2017
On Friday, Catalonia finally declared independence,
opening up some clear divisions in Spain.

Spanish PM Rajoy has sacked the Catalan government
and put the deputy prime minister in charge.

Local police powers are being revoked, and the force
purged of pro-independence officers. A snap election
will be held in December.

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Catalonia independence: Spain takes charge of Catalan government


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/AFFB/production/_98515054_mediaitem98515053.jpg
Spain's Deputy PM Soraya Saenz de Santamaria is now officially in charge of Catalonia

The Spanish government has stripped Catalonia of its autonomy and taken charge
of its government.The measures early on Saturday came after the Catalan
parliament voted to declare independence on Friday.An official state bulletin
dismissed Catalan leaders and handed control of Catalonia to Spain's Deputy Prime
Minister, Soraya Saenz de Santamaria.

Earlier, Spain's interior ministry took charge of Catalonia's police after firing senior
Catalan police officials.On Friday, PM Mariano Rajoy announced the dissolution of
the regional parliament and the removal of the Catalan leader, and called snap local
elections.Demonstrations for and against independence went on into the night.
More are expected on Saturday, with a rally "for the unity of Spain and the
constitution" to be held in Madrid.

read more...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41785292

[Cidersomerset]

Catalonia's day of reckoning: Barcelona opts for independence, Madrid for direct rule

lUm3mR6yr7U

Published on 27 Oct 2017...France 24

[Foxie Loxie]

gnostic9...Wanted to thank you for the excellent article; I sure learned a lot I did not know! :star: And thank you Cider for keeping us up-to-date with this situation!

:highfive:

[Cidersomerset]

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Catalonia independence: Huge Barcelona pro-Spain rally

12 minutes ago
From the section Europe

Hundreds of thousands are attending a rally for Spanish unity in Barcelona
after Catalonia was stripped of its autonomy for declaring independence.

Many of those protesting in the region's largest city chanted that sacked
Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont should be jailed.

Mr Puigdemont was dismissed as Spain's central government took control
of Catalan institutions.

On Sunday, a minister in Belgium said he could get political asylum there.

Spain has been gripped by a constitutional crisis since a referendum, organised
by Mr Puigdemont's separatist government, was held earlier this month in
defiance of a ruling by the Constitutional Court which had declared it illegal.

The Catalan government said that of the 43% of potential voters who took part,
90% were in favour of independence.

The Guardia Urbana, a Catalan municipal police force, said at least 300,000 people
had turned out in Barcelona. Organisers and the government in Madrid put the
turnout a more than a million people.



read more
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41794087

[Cidersomerset]

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Catalan independence: Carles Puigdemont in Belgium, lawyer says


https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/5779/production/_98539322_puigdemont.jpg
Mr Puigdemont has left Catalonia but his portrait was still hanging in government buildings on Monday

Sacked Catalan President Carles Puigdemont has gone to Belgium, a lawyer he has hired there says.
The lawyer, Paul Bekaert, did not comment on reports that Mr Puigdemont could be preparing an
asylum claim.Spanish prosecutor have called for rebellion charges to be brought against him and
other organisers of Catalonia's banned independence referendum.The Spanish central government
took direct control of Catalonia on Monday, replacing sacked officials.It suspended the region's
autonomy and called for fresh elections after Mr Puigdemont and his government declared independence
last week.Belgian lawyer Paul Bekaert said Mr Puigdemont was now in the Belgian capital, Brussels.

"I'm his lawyer in case he needs me," he said. "At the moment there are no specific dossiers I am preparing for him."


read more....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41811649


Spain Divided: Country deeply split over Catalan independence

41gMQpy7Cok

Published on 30 Oct 2017
Spanish prosecutors have filed charges of rebellion and sedition against Catalonia's
former leadership. RT's Charlotte Dubenskij is following developments in Barcelona.
RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

[Cidersomerset]

Puigdemont: Spain carrying out offensive on Catalonia - BBC News
QdklR-4on6g
Published on 31 Oct 2017
Catalonia's sacked President Carles Puigdemont says he has not travelled to
Belgium to seek asylum.He has appeared in public in Brussels with several
colleagues after declaring independence from Spain last week.Spain's central
government has taken direct control of Catalonia and sacked officials, following
the region's disputed independence referendum.Mr Puigdemont said he was not
trying to escape justice but wanted to be able to speak freely.He was speaking
as Spain's constitutional court cancelled Catalonia's declaration of independence

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Catalan independence: Spain high court summons dismissed leader

Spain's high court has summoned sacked Catalan leader Carles Puidgemont and
13 other members of his dismissed government to appear later this week.
It also gave them three days to pay a deposit of €6.2m ($7.2m) to cover potential
liabilities.The summons comes after Spain's chief prosecutor on Monday said he
would press charges including rebellion.Mr Puigdemont is in Belgium with several
former ministers. He earlier said he was not there to seek asylum.

Carles Puigdemont triggered a crisis in Spain by holding an independence referendum
in early October in the semi-autonomous region despite Madrid's opposition and the
Constitutional Court declaring the vote illegal.Spain's central government has now
taken direct control of Catalonia.Mr Puigdemont turned up in Brussels on Monday as
Spanish Attorney-General José Manuel Maza called for Catalan leaders to face charges
of rebellion, sedition and misuse of public funds.

read more....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41825030

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Puigdemont not seeking asylum in Belgium, but won't return to Spain soon as
facing criminal charges

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh8R4X4VveU

Published on 31 Oct 2017
Catalonia's deposed president, Carles Puigdemont, says he's not seeking asylum in
Belguim, after fleeing to Brussels. However, it also appears that he won't soon be
returning to Spain. READ MORE: https://on.rt.com/8r2h

[Foxie Loxie]

I wonder what the REAL story is? It seems nothing is as it seems!! :crazy:

[Cidersomerset]

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Catalonia crisis: Sacked ministers held by Madrid court


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/15C0A/production/_98589098_mediaitem98589095.jpg
Seven of the eight ex-ministers were pictured turning up to court together

Eight sacked Catalan ministers have been remanded in custody by a
Spanish high court judge over the region's push for independence.

Prosecutors had asked the judge to detain eight of the nine former
regional government members who turned up for questioning in Madrid.

They are accused of rebellion, sedition and misuse of public funds.

The prosecutor asked the judge to issue a European Arrest Warrant
for ousted Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont.

The request also covers four other dismissed Catalan ministers who
did not show up in court in Madrid as requested, but have been in
Belgium since Monday.


Read More....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41850094

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'Justice not fascism': Protesters denounce Madrid’s jailing of Catalan MPs

f-KK9QkcNO4

Published on 2 Nov 2017
Eight former Catalan cabinet members have been jailed, without bail, by a Spanish
Court. It all comes after Catalonia's unilateral declaration of independence, which
was blocked by Madrid. Protesters have come out on the streets of Barcelona to
show their support for them. READ MORE: https://on.rt.com/8r8u

[Cidersomerset]

2-Nov-17 TV News: 'Spain jails Catalan government'

Catalan News

g1tQ5u0ayHA

Published on 2 Nov 2017

Prison. This is the answer of the Spanish judiciary system to Catalonia’s
declaration of independence. Spain’s National Court sent eight deposed
Catalan ministers to jail without bail today, after holding short hearings
this morning. It is the first time that members of an elected Catalan
government have ended up in prison since Franco’s Spain, when president
Lluis Companys was held in custody in 1940 before being executed.
Meanwhile, the current president, Carles Puigdemont, and four other
ministers have opted to not appear before the court in Madrid, and to
remain in Brussels instead. Puigdemont's lawyer in Brussels has said
he will challenge any extradition request from Spain.

[Cidersomerset]

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Catalonia crisis: Spain issues warrant for Puigdemont
19 minutes ago


https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/182CC/production/_98602099_042766339-1.jpg
Mr Puigdemont hascalled for his colleagues to be released

A Spanish judge has issued European Arrest Warrants (EAW) for sacked
Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont and four of his allies who went to Belgium.

The five failed to attend a high court hearing in Madrid on Thursday when
nine other ex-members of the regional government were taken into custody.

One of those detained has been freed on bail of €50,000 (£44,000; $58,000).

They all face charges of rebellion, sedition and misuse of public funds for
pursuing Catalan independence.The regional parliament voted to proclaim
an independent republic a week ago, following an illegal referendum on
independence organised by the Catalan government on 1 October

No other country recognised the move and the Spanish central government
moved swiftly to impose control, using emergency powers under the constitution.

Earlier on Friday, Mr Puigdemont said in a Belgian TV interview that he was
ready to run in snap regional elections in Catalonia next month

read more...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41865121

[Cidersomerset]

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Catalonia ex-officials surrender to Belgian police

5th Nov 2017

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/B560/production/_98623464_2eeb6cf8-e28b-490f-aa45-c8a698319911.jpg
Carles Puigdemont fled to Belgium with four former regional ministers after Spain
rejected Catalonia's independence referendum and imposed direct rule

Catalonia's deposed leader Carles Puigdemont and four former advisers have turned
themselves in to Belgian police, says a prosecutors' spokesman.He said an investigating
judge would decide by Monday morning whether to execute an EU arrest warrant issued
by a Spanish judge on Friday.Mr Puigdemont fled to Belgium after Madrid imposed direct
rule on Catalonia following an independence referendum.

He has said he will not return to Spain unless he is guaranteed a fair trial.

He and his four associates are wanted on charges of rebellion, sedition, misuse of public
funds, disobedience and breach of trust following the referendum which a Spanish court
deemed unconstitutional.Last week, Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy imposed direct
rule on Catalonia, dissolved the regional parliament and called local elections for 21 December.


read more....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41877858

[Cidersomerset]

Spanish Rift: Crackdown on ex-Catalan leader & cabinet fuels rallies, division

4u_VFZwsEJ8

Published on 6 Nov 2017
Madrid's crackdown on the former leadership of Catalonia is deepening the political
crisis in Spain. Carles Puigdemont and his allies face charges of sedition, rebellion
and embezzlement.They have been ordered to remain in Belgium while their case
is considered.Thousands rallied to decry the government's handling of the declaration
of independence by the region. Journalist Martin Roberts has more on the ongoing crisis.

[Cidersomerset]

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Catalonia crisis: Spain could allow referendums, says FM

Spain is considering constitutional changes that could allow its regions to
hold referendums on independence in the future, the foreign minister says.

Alfonso Dastis has told the BBC a nationwide vote on the issue could be held.

The move is in recognition of the events in Catalonia, where the regional
government was deposed after a unilateral declaration of independence.

Protests were held against the detention of the region's ex-leaders.

Meanwhile, Spain's constitutional court has ruled that the declaration of
independence was "unconstitutional and void".

read more...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41913520

[Cidersomerset]

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Spain Catalonia: Barcelona rally urges prisoners' release

1 hour ago....From the section Europe

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/4DD1/production/_98712991_mediaitem98712988.jpg
Protesters shone their mobile phone torches as part of the rally

Three-quarters of a million people have rallied in Barcelona to
protest against Spain's detention of Catalan independence leaders,
police estimate.They shone phone torches in unison at sunset as
calls were made to free eight regional ministers and two grassroots
campaign leaders being held on remand.Some of the detainees will
be included on the list of a Catalan separatist party at next month's
snap election.Meanwhile, Barcelona's mayoress has condemned
pro-independence leaders.

read more...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41956909

[Hervé]

...



https://www.sott.net/image/s21/431264/full/DOYOIciXcAAIrdG.jpg

An estimated 1.6 million people protest against the Spanish government's imprisonment of leaders of Catalonia's independence movement - Barcelona, Spain, 11 November 2017

[Cidersomerset]

Alex Salmond starts his new show just as RT has been ordered to file as a
foreign agent in the US this week and pressure from some UK MP's.....



‘We will win!’ Puigdemont talks Catalan independence on Alex Salmond Show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nNiVqIpqsk

Published on 16 Nov 2017
A defiant Carles Puigdemont says he’s confident the Catalan independence movement
will prevail as he joins Alex Salmond, an outspoken proponent of Scottish departure
from the UK, on Salmond’s new show set to premiere on RT.

=====================================================

EXCLUSIVE: Alex Salmond talks to Carles Puigdemont aprox 14mins in....

Wd4x_7ctOlI

Published on 16 Nov 2017
In the first episode of The Alex Salmond Show the former Scottish
First Minister talks to Catalan President Carles Puigdemont.

[Cidersomerset]

Catalan crisis has "ruined everything" ........or has it ?
Sky News

hXDwNfjYlg8

Published on 17 Nov 2017
Catalonia's fight to separate from the rest of Spain has divided a nation,
seen political leaders arrested, and protests on the streets of Barcelona.

Thousands of businesses have already left the region in the uncertainty
that's followed, and some of the area's biggest employers have warned
Sky News they will do the same, if independence goes ahead.

Sky's business correspondent Adam Parsons has this special report.

=================================================
=================================================

Spanish FM on Catalonia: 'We may have been naive' | DW English

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7Wupp5IcL4

Published on 15 Nov 2017
Why has Spain failed to prevent its worst and most predictable crisis in decades?
Tim Sebastian meets Foreign Minister Alfonso Dastis on Conflict Zone this week.

Catch our interview with Alfred Bosch from the pro-independence Republican Left of
Catalonia party.here: https://youtu.be/Gh4hfdxrAog

Conflict Zone is Deutsche Welle's top political interview. Every week, our hosts Tim
Sebastian and Michel Friedman are face-to-face with global decision-makers,
seeking straight answers to straight questions, putting the spotlight on
controversial issues and calling the powerful to account.

[Cidersomerset]

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Catalan arrest warrants withdrawn by Spain's Supreme Court

15 minutes ago from Europe section...


https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/13458/production/_99063987_cataloniasreuters.jpg
Campaigning for the vote officially began at midnight on Monday

A Spanish judge has withdrawn an international arrest warrant for
ousted Catalan President Carles Puigdemont and four other ministers.

They fled to Belgium a month ago after declaring unilateral independence
in a referendum ruled illegal by Spain.Despite the move, the judge said
they still faced possible charges for sedition and rebellion.

Rebellion is considered one of the most serious crimes in Spain, carrying
a jail term of up to 30 years.Spanish Supreme Court judge Pablo Llareno
announced the warrant's withdrawal on Tuesday morning, citing the
willingness the Catalan leaders had shown to return ahead of fresh
regional elections being held on 21 December.He said its removal would
allow Spain full control over the investigation

read more...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42237377

=================================================

Spain drops international arrest warrant for Catalonia ex-leader Puigdemont

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JEH2wfbI2I

Published on 5 Dec 2017....France 24

[Cidersomerset]

Catalans return to polls in decisive legislative election: "A very high turn-out expected"

zOTxqTpA-yg

Published on 21 Dec 2017...France 24

==================================================

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Catalonia election: Voters await result as polls close
5 minutes ago
Related TopicsCatalonia independence vote 2017



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Thursday's election could determine Catalonia's direction for years to come

Counting is under way after record numbers voted in Catalonia's regional
election, called by Spain following a controversial independence referendum.

The snap election pits Catalan pro-independence parties against those who
want the region to remain a semi-autonomous part of Spain.

One exit poll suggested that separatist parties would win a majority.

A BBC correspondent says there seems little prospect that the election
will solve Catalonia's political crisis.The exit poll said the separatist
Republican Left of Catalonia (ERC) and the unionist Citizens (Cs) were
neck and neck in the race to become the biggest party in the new parliament.


read more...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42435684


=================================================

What do the Catalan crisis and Harry Potter have in common? - BBC News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06e8CfFNTVI
Published on 21 Dec 2017
What does the Catalan Crisis and Harry Potter have in common?
Catalan street artist, La Castillo explains...
Artist portrait illustration: Victoria Grainger

=================================================

Catalonia Regional Election: Divided region votes in tight poll

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98wmnrqmVu4
Published on 21 Dec 2017...France 24

=================================================

[Cidersomerset]

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Catalonia election: Separatist parties keep their majority


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Pro-independence parties have retained their majority

Catalan separatist parties are on track to win most seats in the new regional
parliament, setting the stage for more confrontation with Spain's government.
However the Citizens party, which wants Catalonia to remain a semi-autonomous
part of Spain, is the biggest party.As a result, it is unclear who will be given the
right to form a government.The Madrid government stripped Catalonia of its
autonomy and called the election after declaring an October independence
referendum illegal.

With more than 95% of votes counted, Citizens (Cs) had 25%, winning 36 seats
in the 135-seat chamber.But the pro-independence parties Together for Catalonia,
Republican Left of Catalonia and Popular Unity were together on course to win a
total of 70 seats, giving them a majority.


Read more.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42450745

[Cidersomerset]

Catalonia pro-independence parties secure absolute majority in parliament

KrNFAQ_jQ-A

Published on 22 Dec 2017
Pro-independence parties have again secured an absolute majority in the
Catalan parliament, with former regional leader Carles Puigdemont poised
to regain the power he had been stripped of by Madrid. READ MORE: https://on.rt.com/8vdd

================================================
================================================

Catalonia election: Puigdemont calls for talks with Spain - BBC News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dvoctl1qUc
Published on 22 Dec 2017
Catalonia's ousted separatist leader, Carles Puigdemont, has called for new talks
with Spain following a snap regional election.He said he wanted discussions to take
place in Brussels, where he is living in self-imposed exile.He earlier declared that
the Spanish state had been defeated, as separatist parties still hold a slim, reduced
majority.

[Cidersomerset]

21-Dec-17 Election Special: ‘Pro-independence parties keep majority’

Catalan News

JqDvw1winZA

Published on 21 Dec 2017
The pro-independence parties keep their majority in the Catalan election.
Altogether they’ve got 70 seats, two more than the minimum needed for
the majority. Yet the winner of the election is the unionist Ciutadans, with
36 seats, and one out of every four votes. But this hasn’t been enough for
the unionist bloc to stop a new pro-independence majority emerging in the
parliament. While the Socialists haven’t grown as expected, support for
Mariano Rajoy’s People’s Party has drastically dropped. Only 4% of citizens
have voted for the party which suspended self-rule in Catalonia and forced
the election in the first place, after dismissing the Catalan government. In
between Catalonia in Common failed to be decisive in the chamber. In fact,
the Barcelona mayor´s party even suffered some losses.

[Cidersomerset]

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Catalonia election: Spain PM Rajoy rejects Puigdemont talks call


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/16E43/production/_99336739_rajoycomposite.jpg
Mr Rajoy (L) avoided naming Mr Puigdemont during a Friday press conference

Spain's Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy has rebuffed calls by Catalonia's
ousted leader, Carles Puigdemont, to meet for new talks outside the country.

Mr Rajoy said he would negotiate with whoever became the new head of
the Catalan government but they would have to take up their post in Catalonia.

Mr Puigdemont earlier called for talks to take place in Brussels, where he is
living in self-imposed exile.

Separatist parties won a majority in a Thursday's snap regional election.

Mr Rajoy avoided naming Mr Puigdemont during a press conference on Friday
but said he was prepared to hold talks with whoever took control of the Catalan
regional government "in a realistic way and inside the law".

"I offer Catalonia this because I care about the people," he said.

read more.....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42458717

[Cidersomerset]

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Catalonia election: Spain's King Felipe warns separatists


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King Felipe's core message of national unity remained unchanged

The king of Spain has issued a renewed call for unity amid the
ongoing fallout from Catalonia's outlawed independence referendum.

In his Christmas message, Felipe VI urged the people of Catalonia to
choose coexistence rather than confrontation. He did not directly
mention the leaders of the Catalan separatist movement.In the wake
of October's referendum in the region, the king heavily criticised those
spearheading Catalonia's independence movement.

Some Catalans were angered by this, and the fact that he made no
mention of the heavy-handed Spanish police operation to block the vote.
BBC Europe correspondent Kevin Connolly says the king's core underlying
message about the importance of national unity remains unchanged,
but his Christmas broadcast was more cautious and conciliatory.

The king said the politicians elected to the Catalan parliament this week
which included a narrow separatist majority - had to "face the problems
that affect all Catalans, with respect to plurality and bearing in mind their
responsibility to the common good".

"The road cannot lead again to confrontation and exclusion, which as we
already know generate nothing but discord, uncertainty and discouragement,"
he said from his Madrid residence.

He praised what he called Catalonia's openness and creative spirit.

Read more...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42474835

[BMJ]

Interesting event that may suggest Catalonia exists as a independent nation in a parallel reality.

The strange mystery of the man from Taured

It’s July 1954; a hot day. A man arrives at Tokyo airport in Japan. He’s of Caucasian appearance and conventional-looking. But the officials are suspicious.

On checking his passport, they see that he hails from a country called Taured. The passport looked genuine, except for the fact that there is no such country as Taured – well, at least in our dimension.

The man is interrogated, and asked to point out where his country supposedly exists on a map.

He immediately points his finger towards the Principality of Andorra, but becomes angry and confused. He’s never heard of Andorra, and can’t understand why his homeland of Taured isn’t there.

According to him it should have been, for it had existed for more than 1,000 years!

Customs officials found him in possession of money from several different European currencies.

His passport had been stamped by many airports around the globe, including previous visits to Tokyo.

Baffled, they took him to a local hotel and placed him in a room with two guards outside until they could get to the bottom of the mystery.

The company he claimed to work for had no knowledge of him, although he had copious amounts of documentation to prove his point.

The hotel he claimed to have a reservation for had never heard of him either.

The company officials in Tokyo he was there to do business with? Yup, you’ve guessed it – they just shook their heads too.

Later, when the hotel room he was held in was opened, the man had disappeared.

The police established that he could not have escaped out of the window – the room was several floors up, and there was no balcony. ?

He was never seen again, and the mystery was never solved.

Link: http://coolinterestingstuff.com/the-strange-mystery-of-the-man-from-taured

Principality of Andorra

The official language is Catalan.

Location of Principality of Andorra and Catalonia, image:

http://www.theipinionsjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/catalonia-map.gif

[Cidersomerset]

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Carles Puigdemont: Former Catalan president 'detained'

5 minutes ago..25/3/18

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/383B/production/_100559341_0e07a824-4201-4358-b6c0-7788bc9efa9f.jpg
Mr Puigdemont is wanted in Spain on charges of rebellion and sedition

The former leader of Catalonia, Carles Puigdemont, has been detained
in Germany, his lawyer says. He was held after crossing the border from
Denmark, on the way to Belgium, Jaume Alonso-Cuevillas tweeted. He
is wanted in Spain for sedition.Mr Puigdemont had been living in
self-imposed exile in Belgium since last October's banned referendum
that backed Catalonia's unilateral secession bid.

A European arrest warrant was recently reactivated against him.

Tensions in Catalonia are very high and its separatist leaders have
abandoned plans to name a new president following the arrest of the
latest candidate.Jordi Turull was detained on Friday along with five
other leaders, sparking protests and clashes with police in Barcelona.


read more....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43532217

====================================================


Ex-Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont detained in Germany

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pwHurZ8WxM

Published on 25 Mar 2018


Carles Puigdemont has been detained in Germany, according to the former Catalan
president’s lawyer.

An arrest warrant had been issued for Puigdemont in Finland after the former
president visited the country for talks with lawmakers. He was returning to
Belgium, where he lives in self-imposed exile, when he was detained by German
authorities after crossing the border from Denmark.
Check out http://rt.com

[Cidersomerset]

‘#WakeUpEurope & help Catalonia’: German politicians visit Puigdemont in prison

RyA0QZHqzS8

RT.. Published on 2 Apr 2018
Former Catalan president Carles Puigdemont said he is “not a criminal”
in the first interview since his arrest. The exiled leader reaffirmed the
region’s campaign for independence, saying it’s based on democracy
and non-violence.

[sunwings]

Just a quick update.

9 Catalan separatist leaders have been jailed for 100 years for taking part in a symbolic non-binding referendum.

This has angered a right wing faction of the Spanish elite who in the court called for 74 years imprisonment for each separatist which would have totalled 74 years x 9 = 666 years.

The mainstream Spanish media which is mainly Mediaset (Berlusconi) have repeatedly shown one act of aggression towards a Spanish Bigot waving a Spanish flag in front of hundreds of Catalans.

Despite 11th hour pleas to sit down and talk. Despite the UN demanding the release of all political prisoners in Spain. The Regime has spoken and the silence coming from Brussels is deafening.

It feels as if there may be some Power out there, desperate to stop humanity evolving and content in dividing us forever in an energetic cul-de-sac of negativity.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/14/catalan-separatist-leaders-given-lengthy-prison-sentences

[Bill Ryan]

https://theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/15/barcelona-hit-by-more-unrest-over-sentencing-of-catalan-separatists (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/15/barcelona-hit-by-more-unrest-over-sentencing-of-catalan-separatists)

Barcelona hit by more unrest over sentencing of Catalan separatists
15 Oct, 2019

Police and protesters clash in city centre, as well as other Catalonia towns

Clashes between protesters and police erupted in Barcelona late on Tuesday after peaceful demonstrations over the jailing of nine Catalan separatist leaders descended into running battles.

Protesters lit fires and erected makeshift barricades in the centre of the city before the crowd was dispersed by baton charges by Spanish and Catalan police, as far as Passeig de Gràcia, the elegant boulevard that is home to many of the city’s most exclusive shops and hotels.

By mid-evening, dozens of fires had been lit on the boulevard and surrounding streets as helicopters hovered overhead. Makeshift barricades were set up with rubbish containers as skirmishes between demonstrators and police continued, with riot police firing numerous rounds of rubber bullets.

Similar scenes were witnessed in the other main Catalan cities of Tarragona, Girona and Lleida, where dozens of people were reportedly injured.

https://kor.ill.in.ua/m/610x0/2411067.jpg

https://kor.ill.in.ua/m/610x0/2411066.jpg

https://kor.ill.in.ua/m/610x0/2411065.jpg

https://kor.ill.in.ua/m/610x0/2411064.jpg
Police clash with demonstrators in Girona

Earlier in the day, the grassroots organisation Assamblea Nacional Catalana (ANC) called for a candlelit protest outside the offices of the Spanish government in Barcelona and other Spanish cities in response to Monday’s sentencing of the nine Catalan politicians and activists for their part in the illegal referendum and unilateral declaration of independence in 2017.

The disturbances follow violence on Monday night when thousands of pro-independence protesters attempted to shut down Barcelona airport (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/14/catalan-separatist-leaders-given-lengthy-prison-sentences), leading to police charges that left more than 130 people injured.

Although Tuesday’s demonstrations were called by the ANC, which has previously organised the independence movement’s peaceful and spectacular demonstrations, it appears that it has lost the initiative to the so-called Committees for the Defence of the Republic (CDRs) who favour direct action and confrontation.

The CDRs are thought to be behind the Tsunami Democràtic, the social network group that coordinated Monday’s airport protest.

The Catalan president, Quim Torra, has been criticised for calling for civil disobedience while also sending in Catalan riot police to restore order.

Torra said on Tuesday that the convicted prisoners were proud of the demonstrators and urged them to continue to mobilise over the coming days. A major demonstration and general strike has been called for Friday.

What do the lengthy Catalan sentences mean?

Despite the long sentences handed down by the supreme court on 14 October, some of the nine leaders convicted of sedition and misuse of public funds could soon be eligible to apply for “semi-liberty”, allowing them out of prison on a regular basis.

Josep María Tamarit, a professor of criminal law at the Open University of Catalonia (https://www.theguardian.com/world/catalonia), said that in cases where a sentence of five years or more was handed out, a court could stipulate “that half the sentence has to be served before prisoners are eligible for semi-liberty”.

However, the supreme court turned down prosecutors’ request for such an order in the Catalan case.

That means that Jordi Sànchez and Jordi Cuixart – who have now served two years in pre-trial detention – could apply to be allowed out on licence as soon as they have served a quarter of their sentences, which would be in January next year.

Oriol Junqueras, who received the longest sentence – 13 years – would have to wait about 15 months before applying.

Those convicted can complain to Spain’s constitutional court and then put their case before the European court of human rights in Strasbourg.

The Spanish government has the power to issue pardons if they are requested and if the person convicted shows repentance for their crime. However, such a move would have profound political consequences.

Opponents of Spain’s acting prime minister, the socialist leader Pedro Sánchez, would accused him of bowing before the separatists were his government to even consider a pardon.

[AutumnW]

I lived in Catalonia for a short time, many years ago. Can someone help me to understand what they are unhappy about at the moment?

[sunwings]

1. My wife wants a divorce
2. I blame her & tell her she’s mad
3. She insists
4. I beat her. I lock her in a room
5. I run a PR campaign with my neighbours. They back me. They have other issues
6. I lock her up for 10 years
7. Problem solved?

Norway, Finland, Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania gained their liberty thanks to the right of self-determination not so long ago, while the "mother"-countries called it illegal. Now their political leaders suffer massive amnesia in case of Catalonia.

Today in the Washington Post they stated “If Spain does not want to sit on the other side of the table, the international community will have to force them to do it"

Thanks to Hong Kongs protest movement “Be water, my friend”. Which is about moving fluidly around government sites to be heard. Using technology such as encrypted messaging App Telegram. Now, In Barcelona, we have Tsunami D, a hat tip to Hong Kong which is working very effectively.

1184910051552702477

[sunwings]

Protests have been taking place all over Spain in very large numbers. Police brutality has also occurred in Madrid and Bilbao against those opposing the government. Spain is very much divided and a foreign power must now intervene to find a middle ground. Tomorrow the whole of Catalonia is taking part in a strike. Millions will take to the street. As one Madrid Politician stated all this is happening because they wanted to vote and we did not let them.

1184842302629535747

1184786712570089473

1184566276724797440

1184134385974554624

[AutumnW]

Thanks Sunwings. They want a divorce. I am interested in why Catalan wants a divorce, the same as I would be if a friend wanted to divorce her husband. When I lived there they were the most prosperous part of Spain and people seemed pretty happy. Has this changed?

I know that Barcelona has experienced a housing shortage due to intense tourism and the likes of Air B and B. Maybe what they should do is divorce the tourist trade. From what I have been reading it is deforming economies and creates more advantages than disadvantages to the local population.

[sunwings]

The easiest analogy here is Spain is England and Catalonia is Scotland. Two very different cultural regions. It is very typical here to see Scottish flags in protests.

1183743970083512320

The big difference is the language being used to describe the situation today. The Unionists are stating Catalonia is Spanish, all under the same flag but the treatment of Catalonia is very different to other regions.

1184007095676485632

It took me a while but after eleven years of living here, Catalans and Spanish are very different. However, they did not choose to be different 1000 years of history has created this region. Catalonia bans bullfighting, Catalan is the only language spoken by teachers in schools and Catalans want to be ruled autonomously.

Last month we saw Boris Johnson walking around Northern areas of England without out too much trouble and the Queen is welcomed wherever she goes. The king of Spain and the Prime Minister of Spain cannot walk the streets of Catalonia. I think this speaks volumes!

[pueblo]

The easiest analogy here is Spain is England and Catalonia is Scotland. Two very different cultural regions. It is very typical here to see Scottish flags in protests.

1183743970083512320

The big difference is the language being used to describe the situation today. The Unionists are stating Catalonia is Spanish, all under the same flag but the treatment of Catalonia is very different to other regions.

1184007095676485632

It took me a while but after eleven years of living here, Catalans and Spanish are very different. However, they did not choose to be different 1000 years of history has created this region. Catalonia bans bullfighting, Catalan is the only language spoken by teachers in schools and Catalans want to be ruled autonomously.

Last month we saw Boris Johnson walking around Northern areas of England without out too much trouble and the Queen is welcomed wherever she goes. The king of Spain and the Prime Minister of Spain cannot walk the streets of Catalonia. I think this speaks volumes!

You are saying above (in large bold, my emphasis) that a majority of Catalans want independence? Do you have anything to support that assertion?

[Bill Ryan]

Catalans want to be ruled autonomously.

You are saying above (in large bold, my emphasis) that a majority of Catalans want independence? Do you have anything to support that assertion?

I'm not there myself, of course, but I was interested in your question, so I looked up the exact numbers. We can probably assume Wikipedia is accurate here.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Catalan_independence_referendum


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/12px-Yes_check.svg.png Yes . . . .2,044,038 . . . .92.01%
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/X_mark.svg/12px-X_mark.svg.png No . . . . . . 177,547. . . . . 7.99%

[pueblo]

Catalans want to be ruled autonomously.

You are saying above (in large bold, my emphasis) that a majority of Catalans want independence? Do you have anything to support that assertion?


I'm not there myself, of course, but I was interested in your question, so I looked up the exact numbers. We can probably assume Wikipedia is accurate here.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Catalan_independence_referendum


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/12px-Yes_check.svg.png Yes . . . .2,044,038 . . . .92.01%
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/X_mark.svg/12px-X_mark.svg.png No . . . . . . 177,547. . . . . 7.99%

Thanks for that Bill, I was aware of the result of that referendum, however only about 43% of the population voted in that referendum iirc, with plenty of credible allegations of double voting etc etc

My understanding is that the separatists are far from a clear majority in Catalonia which is a huge issue for something like this.

According to an El Pais poll back in 2017 barely a quarter of Catalonians wanted to continue with the separatists government's plan for independence.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia/barely-a-quarter-of-catalans-want-to-pursue-split-from-spain-poll-idUSKBN1DR0XI

Also, from the wiki article you quoted...

"(Note: voters who were not willing to vote were primarily those opposed to independence and/or a referendum being held, so support for independence among those who were certain to vote was expected to be high.)[31]"

[Philippe]

Please note hereunder from the same Wikipedia sourse that the exact total number of registered voters was 5.313.564. I always understood that 1 in 2 Catalans is not in favor of a secession, a situation which has caused very painful divides in society, families and marriages. Those not in favor probably did not go to vote in an illegal referendum. These figures also do not show what millions of Spaniards think of the secession movement.
These are figures and do not express any personal opinion about the Catalan cause.


Results
2017 Catalan independence referendum
“
Do you want Catalonia to become an independent state in the form of a republic? ”
Location Catalonia
Date 1 October 2017
Votes %
Yes 2,044,038 92.01%
No 177,547 7.99%
Valid votes 2,221,585 97.17%
Invalid or blank votes 64,632 2.83%
Total votes 2,286,217 100.00%
Registered voters/turnout 5,313,564 43.03%
Source: Government of Catalonia[1]

[sunwings]

41718

The 2017 election results would be a good indicator. It is a slim majority but normally turnout is around 40%. A true referendum would draw a much larger crowd. Many more people on the fence are switching towards an independent Catalonia after these events. The referdum held in 2017 had 95% voting in favour of independence. It was more of a publicity stunt but the people mandated the politicians carry it out! Thus the shock and horror of the events which have followed.

[sunwings]

1188050794454626304

These videos showing the Spanish Police returning from Catalonia to their home towns as Victors are very similar to 1945.

[sunwings]

VOX the old Right-wing party of Franco has reemerged in the elections this week. They came third amazingly to the delight of all of Spain....:silent:

Below is a map of the voting patterns for VOX throughout Spain.

41836

[Bill Ryan]

Bumping this thread with very significant news from Spain. (A LOT of people in Spain are very upset about this)


https://bbc.com/news/world-europe-67368314

Spain's Sánchez secures power deal with Catalan separatists prompting anger

Spain's Socialist acting prime minister, Pedro Sánchez, has agreed a controversial amnesty deal with a Catalan separatist party, bringing him closer to four more years in office.

He was immediately condemned by conservative opponents for dragging Spain towards "humiliation".

Although the conservative Popular Party won July elections they were unable to form a majority.

The amnesty deal would give the Socialists the numbers they need.

However, right-wing protesters have taken to the streets in Madrid and other cities in recent days, angered by the prospect of a law granting amnesty to hundreds of Catalan politicians and activists "directly or indirectly" related to a failed bid to secede from Spain in 2017.

Popular Party (PP) figures have accused the acting prime minister of writing a "blank cheque for the independence movement". Madrid regional leader Isabel Díaz Ayuso said the Socialists were "selling a nation with centuries of history" with an attack on Spain's rule of law.

Judges and prosecutors associations also expressed "profound concern" about the agreement.

Amid the febrile atmosphere surrounding the deal, a former leader of the PP in Catalonia and founder of far-right Vox was shot in the head and wounded on a street in Madrid. His attacker was said to have fled the scene on a motorbike.

Alejo Vidal-Quadras, 78, had earlier condemned the "infamous pact", warning that it would make Spain a "totalitarian tyranny". However, Spanish reports suggested the attack may have been linked to his work defending Iran's exiled opposition.

Mr Vidal-Quadras was said to be in a stable condition.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/C3E2/production/_131664105_46c3abb4875cd12095db52fe42b0876a71365b0e0_7_4341_24421000x563.jpg
Alejo Vidal-Quadras was shot in the Salamanca area of Madrid and taken to hospital

Before Thursday's agreement, Pedro Sánchez had already sealed a deal with one pro-independence party. The Catalan Republican Left (ERC) is in power in Spain's north-eastern region.

His negotiators then clinched an agreement with the more radical Together for Catalonia (JxCat). It is led by Carles Puigdemont, who led the breakaway independence vote but fled to Brussels to avoid being sent to jail.

ERC and JxCat hold seven seats each in the 350-seat parliament.

While Mr Puigdemont went into exile in 2017, nine other Catalan leaders were jailed for sedition before being pardoned by Mr Sánchez in 2021. The crime of sedition has since been removed from the penal code but Mr Puigdemont is still accused of disobedience and embezzling public funds, and many others have faced similar allegations.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/885A/production/_131660943_flag.jpg
There have been confrontations in Barcelona between right-wing supporters and Catalan separatists in advance of the deal

Under the agreement of just over three pages, the draft amnesty covers charges arising from the start of the Catalan push for independence in 2012 to 2023 but it does not refer to any named individuals.

It says JxCat will propose holding a "self-determination referendum on the political future of Catalonia" within the terms of the Spanish constitution while the Socialist party says it will defend the "broad development" of Catalonia's autonomy by judicial means.

The text also refers to "lawfare", a word used by JxCat to refer to judicial cases it claims were used to persecute pro-independence figures politically.

Mr Puigdemont said the deal marked a step towards resolving "the historic conflict between Catalonia and Spain".

Santos Cerdán, the Socialist party negotiator, said it gave a historic opportunity for tackling what "can and should only be dealt with politically".

"It's necessary to form a progressive government as soon as possible, that gives stability to Spain and that fulfils the mandate of the people in last elections."

The leader of the conservative PP, Alberto Núñez Feijóo, spoke of a day that would go down "in the dark history of our country". Calling for further protests, he said the acting prime minister had formed an alliance for personal convenience and had utterly surrendered to the "blackmail of the independence movement".

Party colleague Isabel Díaz Ayuso told Spanish TV that the Socialists had betrayed all their principles. Accusing the acting prime minister of deciding to stay in office despite losing the election, she said his party was guilty of sneaking "a dictatorship through the back door".

Four judicial groups signed a joint statement objecting to the deal's claims of "lawfare" waged against pro-independence activists. They warned against interference in the independence of the judiciary and said expressions reflecting "distrust" were unacceptable.

The controversial amnesty law will be put before parliament in the coming days and, assuming it passes, the next step will be for an investiture debate and a vote around Thursday next week.

The European Commission said it had written to the caretaker government in Spain for information about the draft law. A spokesman said it had been contacted "by a large number of citizens and stakeholders who had concerns about [the amnesty]".

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1536/cpsprodpb/32A9/production/_130496921_finalpanish_2023_general_hemicycle-nc-2x.png