How can you cure arthropathy and tenosynovitis with high ESR and c protein reaction?

[Daozen]

My mother has been experiencing an unknown swelling and pain recently. She is already taking Iodine, Liposomal C Magnesium, and living a healthy life, so it's difficult to know what to do next. She's still taking Clopidogrel, which may be causing a reaction.

The doctor said she had "arthropathy and tenosynovitis with high ESR and c protein reaction" - whatever that means. We think its pointing towards Rheumatoid arthritis.

If anyone has any ideas what to do next, I would appreciate it.

[Bob]

Was the episodic flare-up much higher last week? (3rd-6th Jan)

[Daozen]

I don't know Bob, I'll ask her. Why? You reminded me that magnesium bicarbonate might help. Cheers.

[Bob]

I've heard a few reports last week from East Asia to the west and midwest of the US was a rough week for folks experiencing body issues, swelling and unknown origin of the pain. I was thinking vagus nerve inflammation (could be a widespread type of virus that attacks nerves)..

-- the most rapid solution to the inflammation was a short round of anti-histamine, and in the most severe cases, a week's worth of prednisolone (steroid anti-inflammatory).. solved the issue until the body was able to fight the 'virus'..

Here's a reference on the vagus nerve inflammation syndrome - http://simmaronresearch.com/2013/12/one-theory-explain-vagus-nerve-infection-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/


I don't know Bob, I'll ask her. Why? You reminded me that magnesium bicarbonate might help. Cheers.

-- natural methods were discussed here: https://dailyhealthpost.com/ways-to-stimulate-vagus-nerve-naturally/

[Daozen]

It's been going on a couple of months. But you reminded me of histamines. They can be an important hidden factor in a lot of illnesses, so thanks for that.

Nettle is a natural anti-inflamatory, she used to drink it as a tea.

[Bob]

Daozen and others, I suggest by reading this webpage to understand a whole lot more on immune system crisis (symptoms, reactions, treatments).. It's an easy read and highly informative -

https://livingwellnessblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/11/have-you-weathered-a-cytokine-storm/

The histamine and "cytokine crisis" syndrome.. Body starts to think it's own joints/tissues/organs need to be "attacked".. (auto-immune disease reactions result)

Some food avoidance solutions -


Mast Cells, Histamines, Drugs and Foods

If you believe that you and/or your child is having some mast cell issues and going ‘over the threshold’ on a regular basis, what can you do?

Dr. Miner has stated that there are 7 deadly sins for mast cell patients to eat: beef, pork, onions, tomatoes, wheat, oranges, and chocolate.

These foods are all high in histamine and his research has shown that mast cell patients can clear up a lot of stomach issues by ceasing to eat these foods. If your child is suddenly “over their threshold” and seemingly reacting to everything, try removing these foods from their diet and see if their system calms down.

Additionally, bananas hold histamine in the body. You may not have an allergy to them, but can still experience symptoms, like hives, if you eat them.

ref: http://home.allergicchild.com/food-allergies-mast-cells-hitting-your-threshold/

a way-overloaded-immune system experiencing excessive triggers, called a "cytokine storm (or crisis)" - Cytokine Storms occur when the immune system becomes and remains activated against the immune stimulants beyond the point of being helpful.


Cytokine storm symptoms. Cytokine storm syndromes (CSS) are a group of disorders representing a variety of inflammatory causes. The primary symptoms of a cytokine storm are high fever, swelling and redness, extreme fatigue and nausea. In some cases the immune reaction may be fatal.

ref: https://livingwellnessblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/11/have-you-weathered-a-cytokine-storm/


When the body detects foreign microorganisms or substances, it can respond by overprotecting the site of that irritation.

In its hurry to get antibodies to the infection site, the body may dispatch so many that the level of cytokines becomes highly elevated, creating a Cytokine Storm.

which is why I was saying seems like "nerve targeting virus" (herpescomplex is typical)


It's been going on a couple of months. But you reminded me of histamines. They can be an important hidden factor in a lot of illnesses, so thanks for that.

Nettle is a natural anti-inflamatory, she used to drink it as a tea.

supplementary quote from the TOP link in this post:


Case example: We had one case where the doctor used Supplement challenges to determine the treatment. First, they did the GABA challenge. The patient felt great but was put on acetylcholine support and immediately crashed in a cytokine storm. Doctor said it was the flu. Next, they used (Gastro-ULC) making the patient feel better. Doctor stopped that and supplemented with digestive enzymes making the patient crash again. The doctor explained it as a “Healing crisis”. Patient came to our office for help.

Be wary of provoking immune responses. Those having bad reactions to the TH1/TH2 challenge are provoking a Cytokine Storm. Normally, the TH1/TH2 feedback loop is kept in check by the body. However, in some instances, when purposely provoked, the reaction becomes uncontrolled and too many immune cells are activated, much like pouring gas on a fire. This propagates a Cytokine Storm where far too many immune cells are caught in an endless loop of calling more and more immune cells to fight the irritation.

Those who have experienced a Cytokine Storm and have cytokine induced sickness should avoid, herbs and foods, which boost the immune response. TH1 boosters are astragulus, echinacea, goldenseal, immune boosting mushrooms.

TH2 boosters are caffeine, green tea, grape seed extract, pine bark extract, and lycopene. Sambucol (which is Elderberry juice), Chlorella algae, Spirulina, Chocolate, Kimchi and Honey are additional foods that can increase cytokine production and should be avoided during a Cytokine Storm.

These foods are good for treatment of less severe colds and flu, when the immune response appropriately regulated, but should be avoided when symptoms are being caused by a cytokine storm.

Symptoms of a cytokine induced episode vary greatly from individual to individual.

A limited list of symptoms are extreme fatigue, low mood, anxiousness, anxiety, insomnia, high fever, intermittent hot flashes, swelling and redness, and nausea.

Cytokine Storms are very serious and with the right set of circumstances can be fatal. If the storm is concentrated in the lungs and airways, the mucus and inflammation has the potential to block airways and result in death.

This is recognized as a Type II hypersensitivity allergic reaction and only an Immunologist would connect cytokines with it. Many believe that the Cytokine Storm response was what caused the deaths of so many young adults in the 1918 Influenza Pandemic.

New research and understandings have caused some to question vaccinations, especially three-stage vaccinations.

[Daozen]

Thanks a lot Bob, I will send that over... I think histamines are behind a lot of conditions.

Last night we worked out that bromelain and bicarbonates are good for tenosynovitis, so we've got some options now. Already ordered some Bromelain. Some people are sayin its a 'miracle cure'. Its safe and well respected, so worth a tr. She's also going to try nettle tea.

Onward!

[findingneo]

I have problems with achilles tenosynovitis. Doc wanted to treat with steroids injected into the back of the heel. I had laser treatment in the U.K. for the same thing a decade ago and it worked beautifully. It is not even considered a real treatment where I am now, as they have no idea really, but luckily when I rejected that idea, my doc who was a world traveler, and realized I was on board already with this simple tech, and who had his own laser to treat himself and family. He used it on me and I had 5, 5 minute sessions in his surgery and the pain was almost gone. From hobbling to having a slight irritation. LLLT Low Level Light Therapy it might be called. Infra red. Most doctors here have never heard of it and I imagine it is up there with ufo's,lol. Mine has come back, but researching atenolol, a component in my anti migraine medicine, it apparently has a side effect of causing tenosynovitis in the achilles. My doc does not think so but I will change meds for the migraine and see what happens. If not the meds, it might be my age with fallen arches. Anyway, maybe research laserr treatment. If I put 1% steroid cream on my skin, my head feels like it is going to burst, let alone the thought of an injection of it. I am BTW allergic to most of the above allergens mentioned. I am sure you will find something that helps via research Daozen. Good luck and hope your mum is on them mend soon.x

[Daozen]

I knew I was taking a risk with such a specific title but I got some good replies.

LLLT, thanks FindingNeo. My Mum will like that because she's into Star Trek type medicine. LLLT is actually proven and fairly mainstream.

Did you find a good brand?

EDIT: I just saw you were treated in the doctor's studio. I'll research brands as best I can.

[findingneo]

I wanted to buy my own Daozen, it was about $300 U.S. I think, but the doc says they are not powerful enough and yet they do need the right level of exposure and level to work. I did not buy it and I spent $250 U.S. getting the doctor to use his $9000 personal laser.

It is mainstream perhaps where you are, and in the U.K. but where I am it is not common. They have conferences but only about 30 docs from my country go apparently. Just not caught up yet. It needs to seep into folks paradigms I think, even if the proof is there.

[findingneo]

I forgot. Doc said when I said about that laser tech not being used here, he said it is because there is no money in it for the Pharma. They sell drugs, so drugs are used in other words. Even if this tech is very effective and relatively cheap, it does not fund the pharma.

[Bob]

Do keep in mind, Bromelain is a very strong PROTEIN digestion enzyme..

http://quercetinbromelain.org/

Some background for the readers:


Bromelain, like protease and lipase, is a protein-digesting natural enzyme. Bromelain is isolated from pineapple; it is literally made by grinding the stem of a pineapple. Bromelain works with quercetin in two ways: First, as an enzyme, it helps your body absorb a higher percentage of any quercetin you consume.

Second, bromelain is proven to have its own anti-inflammatory properties. For example, it is often suggested by physical therapists for people suffering from the swelling that results from muscle tears and joint sprains.

Bromelain first found use as a therapy in Hawaii in 1957. Since then the research of this digestive enzyme has spread throughout the world.



also


The areas in which studies are being conducted to verify the use of bromelain include the following:

For its inflammatory purposes:


sports injuries
accident traumas
arthritis
sinusitis
phlebitis
digestive problems
post-operative healing
interstitial cystitis
urinary tract infections


Additionally, studies are being conducted to measure its benefits for the following:


chronic venous insufficiency
excessive bruising
hemorrhoids
gout
enlarged prostate and prostatitis
menstrual pain
autoimmune disorders (extensive research is being conducted on its effects on HIV)
ulcerative colitis


One study (which isn’t enough to go on but it provides some hope) suggests that bromelain might help reduce blood clots and platelet clumping in arteries.

Side effects, warnings

There are two bromelain side effects to consider, both considered rare and mild but both are side effects which you should understand before you start taking this supplement. The first is more evident: if you regularly take large doses of bromelain on an empty stomach, it can cause heartburn.

There isn’t any evidence that it does any damage, but it can be pretty uncomfortable. I suggest you try it in lower doses for a while, then increase dosage if you’re okay. You can also reduce this bromelain side-effect by taking it with food, although it is best to take a quercetin bromelain supplement between meals.

The second bromelain side effect is potentially more serious but more rare as well. Some studies have indicated that bromelain supplementation can increase your heart rate.

While nothing dire has occurred in studies, common sense says that people with heart disease or heart conditions should exercise care and restraint when taking quercetin bromelain.

Other side effects (livestrong dot com (https://www.livestrong.com/article/347364-side-effects-of-bioflavonoid-quercetin-bromelain/))

UMMC says that bromelain is generally recommended for no more than 8 to10 days in a row. Bromelain can produce side effects such as excessive menstrual bleeding, vomiting, diarrhea and nausea. Individuals who are allergic to fennel, cypress pollen, papain, carrot, wheat, pineapple, celery or grass pollen may also be allergic to bromelain. People with liver or kidney disease, high blood pressure and bleeding disorders and pregnant women should not take bromelain, advises the UMMC. Bromelain may also increase the bleeding risk during and after surgery, therefore, you should stop taking bromelain two weeks before surgery.

More side effects

Taking high doses of bromelain might elevate heart rate, according to a study published in the May 1978 issue of “Hawaii Medical Journal,”as reported in NYU Langone Medical Center. Bromelain may also slow down your body’s ability to clot blood, and could raise the risk of bleeding when taken with blood-thinning drugs such as clopidogrel, aspirin and warfarin.

The UMMC notes that bromelain may increase the absorption of some antibiotics, especially tetracycline and amoxicillin.

Furthermore, bromelain might increase the effect of sedative medications such as tricyclic antidepressants, barbiturates, anti-seizure medications and benzodiazepines.

[Bob]

From Daozen's OP post 1 -


"She's still taking Clopidogrel, which may be causing a reaction."

Bromelain can reduce clotting - this can be a problem with Clopidogrel.


UMMC - Bromelain may also slow down your body’s ability to clot blood, and could raise the risk of bleeding when taken with blood-thinning drugs such as clopidogrel, aspirin and warfarin.


Clopidogrel is:

"Clopidogrel, sold as the brandname Plavix among others, is a medication that is used to reduce the risk of heart disease and stroke in those at high risk. It is also used together with aspirin in heart attacks and following the placement of a coronary artery stent (dual antiplatelet therapy). It is taken by mouth. Any alcohol in the system can create a deadly combination."

[Daozen]

Thanks for pointing that out, I appreciate it. Perhaps bromelain can help my mother get off Clopidogrel. She's been searching for something for ages. I will heed your warnings and proceed cautiously.

FindingNeo, you might be right that a $9000 laser is better. A home unit might not be good enough... but there there's the homemade route. I'll have to see what happens. Cheers.