Who Would Stop Trump's Armageddon Order?

[Fellow Aspirant]

A couple of days ago, I posted an email to my friends that was a piece that I had come across about the protocols that the United States would use to launch a nuclear attack. On a large scale, this would be Armageddon.

In the responses I received was one from a friend of mine who, unbeknownst to me, actually served as a nuclear launch officer. His take on the process and the current state of readiness is quite fascinating. We had a brief exchange of views and I'm sharing these with you now. It gets more than a little political, as I'm sure you can guess, but it also offers a view of the real world dilemma faced by the holders of the keys under this president. Kinda reassuring, I think. Kinda.

So here goes, starting with the original Quora piece ...

Launching Armageddon

Just an FYI, in case you didn't like the idea of all starting Armageddon with a "big red button". I am somewhat relieved by #7 (bold type mine).

Still, a chilling scenario, and very possible.

From "Quora", an online discussion site (lots of fascinating questions that get answered by experts)


Answer · Author you might like

Does the U.S. Commander in Chief really have a "button on his desk", or is this just the ramblings of a "stable genius"?

Thierry Etienne Joseph Rotty, studied at University of Antwerp
Answered 20h ago

US Nuclear Release Procedure is as follows (under normal conditions):

1. The US President tells his adjutant who carries a bag known as the Nuclear Football, to open the bag.

2. The adjutant then presents thee President with an Authenticator Card also known as the ‘Biscuit’ or the ‘Cookie’. This card has an alphanumerical sequence that the Presidents needs to authenticate himself to the military leadership in the Pentagon. In the old days they got to carry the Authenticator Card on their person but we discontinued that after Clinton lost his card, twice, and that of Carter ended up at a DC drycleaner.

3. The President then uses a secured cell phone from the Nuclear Football to contact the National Military Command Center (NMCC) in the Pentagon. The President then authenticates himself.

4. The NMCC calls the Secretary of Defense (SECDEF) who orders his own adjutant to open an identical Nuclear Football.

5. Using the secured cell phone, the SECDEF then authenticates himself to the NMCC.

6. At this point the President and SECDEF need to state what they think needs to be done.

7. If the military agree that a nuclear strike is required, they will present the President and the SECDEF with a number of options, they don’t get to make up their own options.

8. If both men agree, the NMCC formats an Emergency Action Message (EAM) which is an alphanumerical sequence that contains:

1. Strike Package, which means the targets that need to be attacked using specific weapons.
2. Permissive Action Links (PALs) which are teh codes to physically arm nuclear weapons.
3. Release Time which is the time at which the strike needs to be executed.
4. Authentication Code, which is the code that allows the people handling the weapons to verify if they come from the NMCC.
9. The people physically handling the weapons execute the strike.
That’s the complete procedure.

END QUORA ARTICLE


My friend’s response:

Brian

From my days as a nuclear launch officer, this is pretty correct. One would hope that Jim Mattis has the brains and balls to tell Moron to go **** himself if he tries to do something irrational. I always felt I could follow orders from even the worst presidents I served under (like Nixon, Carter, even Reagan who has been way over-rated) because even with their worst flaws they were not irrational when it came to nukes. Glad I don't have to face that decision now, because I probably couldn't turn the key if the order came from the ****head-in-Chief.



My reply:

Hi XXX

Thanks for this reply. One, because I am really impressed by your former position ( I'd love to talk to you about it some time) and two, because of your attitude toward you-know-who. I know that there are several highly professional, committed and highly intelligent men such as yourself between him and Armageddon, and it has, of late, given me a little more peace at night knowing that you folks are there. Previous to this info, I pictured the scenario as shown in the movies, and visualized the President in a room with his military advisors. The codes would be entered, the keys inserted into the console and ... just as he was about to turn his, he'd freeze upon hearing the loud click of a service pistol at his ear. So it's a relief to know that there are more protocols and minds involved in the process.

That said, I'm thinking that the officers in place today have an awful lot more on their minds than did anyone in history. And their responsibilities were hard enough before the arrival of said ****head-in-Chief. Such mental and emotional discipline is far beyond my comprehension.

Be well, my friend
Brian


My friend’s reply:

Hopefully Kelly or McMaster have that service pistol and will use it if needed. I'm buoyed by the belief and observation that more and more of his base are realizing that he's a deranged, lying, ****ing idiot -- even though they may not publicly admit their mistake yet. Hopefully the midterm elections will make some needed changes in congress and get rid of the party ****heads like McConnell and Ryan who don't have they balls and ethics to put country and world before party. Forrest Gump said it best -- Stupid is as Stupid Does!


My reply:

Amen to that, my friend. The looming Congressional elections are our only reasonable hope for an orderly change of government policy. Maybe even make impeachment a possibility. 8-) The sucking ethical vacuum on the Republican side is antithetical to the history and spirit of America. McConnell even had the nerve to come right out with it a few months ago when he confessed, with one of his turtle-impression chortles, that they liked having The Donald in the White House because "he'll sign anything we put in front of him". Ye gods. A shift of power in the House is really the only hope, as the removal of Trump would leave the country at the mercy of Pence and the current crop of "Plunder Monkeys" as Stephen King so aptly named them.

End Email Exchange

I thought this exchange rather prescient given that today, seventeen former Launch Control Officers have just sent another open letter to Congress declaring their displeasure with having Donald Trump as the man who would make the nuclear call.

Last October, the number of dissenting former officers was ten.

Full Text of Letter:

STATEMENT BY FORMER NUCLEAR LAUNCH OFFICERS

In the final weeks of the presidential election, we sounded our alarm over Donald Trump’s fitness to serve as commander-in-chief, with absolute authority over the nation’s nuclear arsenal. Joining hundreds of leaders across the political spectrum in questioning Trump’s temperament, judgement and indifference to expert advice, we warned that Trump should not be allowed to have his finger on the proverbial “Red Button.”

One year into the Trump presidency, our alarm has only intensified and we must raise our voices again. The president has had ample opportunity to educate and humble himself to the grave responsibilities of his office. Instead, he consistently shows himself to be easily baited, stubborn in his ignorance of world politics and diplomacy, and quick to brandish nuclear threats. The reality of
this presidency is worse than we feared.

Trump’s inflammatory rhetoric has put the United States on a collision course with North Korea. The most recent back and forth with North Korean leader Kim Jong
un over the size of their “nuclear buttons” is dangerous and risks catastrophic miscalculation. Threats of “fire and fury” and total destruction of the Kim dictatorship undercut diplomatic efforts and increase the likelihood of
stumbling into conflict. Worse, it appears the president is operating under the belief that these threats of nuclear war are working; we can only expect this behavior will continue.

Every one of these episodes points to a flaw in the nuclear launch process that poses a clear and present danger to the country and the world: Every American president has absolute authority to order the first use of nuclear weapons.
No one – not the secretary of defense, not the attorney general, not Congress –
can veto that order. There are no reliable safeguards in place to contain this power.

As former nuclear launch control officers, it was our job to fire nuclear missiles if the president so directed. Once the president orders a launch, we could have missiles leaving their silos in several minutes. They cannot be recalled. The missiles
would reach their destination – whether Russia, China or North Korea – within 30 minutes. There is no act of greater consequence, and it should not rest in the hands of any one person.

There are a number of good proposals before Congress right now that would rein in the president’s power to order the first use of nuclear weapons. Whether it’s assigning the defense secretary and attorney general a role in certifying a launch order, requiring a Congressional Declaration of War before the first use of nuclear weapons, or ending the policy of nuclear first use entirely, any of these
common - sense measures would reduce the risk we now face. All are backed by top experts and worthy of consideration. Whichever path we take, it is essential officials on both sides of the aisle come together to reform the system.

We and our nation cannot abide being hostages to the mood swings of a petulant and foolish commander - in-chief. No individual, especially Donald Trump,
should hold the absolute power to destroy nations. That is a clear lesson of this presidency and one that we, as former stewards of the launch keys, embrace with full conviction.

Timothy J. Allen
Ellsworth AFB, 1991-92
F.E. Warren AFB, 1992 -96
Offutt AFB, 2002 - 05

Bruce G. Blair
Malmstrom AFB, 1972 - 74

Victor D. Bras
Whiteman AFB, 1968 - 72

Grand Forks AFB, 1983 - 85

Ken Franklin
Minot AFB, 1967 - 70

Frank G. Goldman, ESQ.
F.E. Warren AFB, 1988 - 91

Peter Hefley
F.E. Warren AFB, 2005 - 07

Calvin W. Hickey
Malmstrom AFB, 1975 - 76

Geoffrey Kanner
Malmstrom AFB, 1980 - 84

David Macpherson
Malmstrom AFB, 1969 - 72

Michael Miller
F.E. Warren AFB, 2009 - 13

Emma Poon
Malmstrom AFB, 2005 - 09

James Robertson
Malmstrom AFB, 1999 - 2003

Ryan William Schmoll
F.E. Warren AFB, 2005 - 09

David C.W. Wagner
F.E. Warren, 2005 - 09

Brian Weeden
Malmstrom AFB, 2000 - 04

Theodore F. Weihe
Whiteman AFB, 1965 - 70

[Bill Ryan]

Reference: the excellent movie Crimson Tide (1995), with Denzel Washington and Gene Hackman. Highly recommended.

All about whether the senior officer in command of a nuclear submarine obeys what may or may not be an order to launch... or not.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimson_Tide_(film)

[Bill Ryan]

See also the PBS documentary feature, The Man Who Saved The World (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2208342/Soviet-submariner-single-handedly-averted-WWIII-height-Cuban-Missile-Crisis.html). This is a most extraordinary story, one that only emerged a few years ago, of the stand-off (as in the Hollywood movie Crimson Tide (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112740/): see my post #2 above) in a Russian Nuclear submarine deployed in the Cuban Missile Crisis which back in 1962 brought the world to the brink of war.

The Americans didn't know it, but the subs were armed with nuclear torpedoes as powerful as the bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. One submarine commander, supported by his on-board political officer (who had to consent), gave the order to fire one of the weapons. It would have taken out the entire local US fleet. Such an action would certainly have started World War III, and if that order had been carried out, you and I might not be here reading this now.

One man, and one man alone, the fleet commander (in overall charge of all four submarines in the area), said NO. His solitary intelligence, cool head, courage and vision may well have saved us all.

[Daozen]

I do not think the US President has any remote chance, or any power, to launch a nuclear attack... If they could've done that, they would've done it years ago.

UFOs (which most likely come from underground areas, not outer space) have been observed around nuclear installations. They can shut down nukes if they want, as shown by Larry King's 'four Bobs" interview.

I think the threat of nuclear war is largely used to keep the populace in fear.

oIYpdBJxxdI

This is a collective dream and we have decided not to die.

[Fellow Aspirant]

See also the PBS documentary feature, The Man Who Saved The World (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2208342/Soviet-submariner-single-handedly-averted-WWIII-height-Cuban-Missile-Crisis.html). This is a most extraordinary story, one that only emerged a few years ago, of the stand-off (as in the Hollywood movie Crimson Tide (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112740/): see my post #2 above) in a Russian Nuclear submarine deployed in the Cuban Missile Crisis which back in 1962 brought the world to the brink of war.

The Americans didn't know it, but the subs were armed with nuclear torpedoes as powerful as the bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. One submarine commander, supported by his on-board political officer (who had to consent), gave the order to fire one of the weapons. It would have taken out the entire local US fleet. Such an action would certainly have started World War III, and if that order had been carried out, you and I might not be here reading this now.

One man, and one man alone, the fleet commander (in overall charge of all four submarines in the area), said NO. His solitary intelligence, cool head, courage and vision may well have saved us all.

There appears to be some confusion here with the title of the documentary The Man Who Saved The World. Are there two productions with the same name? I think that there are two such heroes, both Russian.

The documentary that I saw, released in 2015, is about a land based Soviet commander named Stanislav Petrov, who oversaw all of the Russian radar warning sites. It took place in 1983. In his command post, he received information from every radar post that was charged with monitoring Western nuclear launches. On the night in question, his radar officers were reporting a massive, all out attack on Russia. His delay (over 20 minutes, as I recall) in issuing launch orders for all of the Russia's ICBMs took place within the pressure cooker of loud (as in hard-to-think loud) alarms sounding throughout the complex, and increasingly angry demands from his superior officers (not on site) to go ahead and retaliate - NOW! He repeatedly asked for confirmation of the launches by the west - only to be told repeatedly that the reports were genuine and that their radar system was in perfect working order. Yet he waited.

The makers of the documentary arranged for Petrov to visit the US, including a visit to Malmstrom nuclear missile base, where he stood for a time silently gazing at the roof one of the underground silos containing an ICBM. It is one of the most moving things I have witnessed.

LInk to the trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaPXVJWHji4


Here's a CBC post about the man and his deed, on the occasion of his death last September:

(link here ... http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/man-who-saved-the-world-dies-1.4296623)

36882

Stanislav Petrov, a former Soviet military officer known in the West as "the man who saved the world" for his role in averting a nuclear war over a false missile warning at the height of the Cold War, has died at 77.

Petrov's German friend, Karl Schumacher, said Tuesday that he died on May 19. Schumacher called Petrov earlier this month to wish him a happy birthday, but was told by Petrov's son Dmitry that his father had died. The Russian state Zvezda TV station only reported the death on Tuesday.

Petrov was on night duty at the Soviet military's early warning facility outside Moscow on Sept. 26, 1983, when an alarm went off, signalling the launch of several U.S. intercontinental ballistic missiles. The 44-year-old lieutenant colonel had to quickly determine whether the attack was real. He chose to consider it a false alarm, which it was.

The incident was particularly harrowing as it happened at one of the tensest periods of the Cold War when the Soviet Union appeared to genuinely fear a surprise U.S. nuclear attack.

A few weeks earlier, the Soviets had shot down a passenger plane flying to South Korea from the U.S., suspecting it of spying, killing all 269 people aboard. The United States, after a series of provocative military manoeuvres, was preparing for a major NATO exercise that simulated preparations for a nuclear attack.

In a 2015 interview with The Associated Press, Petrov recalled the excruciating moments at the secret Serpukhov-15 control centre when the fate of the world was in his hands.

"I realized that I had to make some kind of decision, and I was only 50/50," Petrov told the AP.

If he had judged it a real launch, the top Soviet military brass and the Kremlin would have had no time for extra analysis in a few minutes left before the incoming nuclear-tipped missiles hit Soviet territory. They would have likely ordered a retaliatory strike, triggering a nuclear war.

"It was this quiet situation and suddenly the roar of the siren breaks in and the command post lights up with the word 'LAUNCH,"' Petrov told the AP. "This hit the nerves. I was really taken aback. Holy cow!"

Within minutes of the first alarm, the siren sounded again, warning of a second U.S. missile launch. Soon, the system was reporting that five missiles had been launched.

Petrov recalled standing up as the alarm siren blared and seeing that the others were all looking at him in confusion.

"My team was close to panic and it hit me that if panic sets in then it's all over," he said.

Petrov told his commander that the system was giving false information. He was not at all certain, but he was driven by the fact that Soviet ground radar could not confirm a launch. The radar system picked up incoming missiles only well after any launch, but he knew it to be more reliable than the satellites.

The false alarm was later determined to have been caused by a malfunction of the satellite, which mistook the reflection of the sun off high clouds for a missile launch.

Petrov was not rewarded for his actions. In fact, he received a reprimand for failing to correctly fill the duty log and retired from the military the following year.

Although his commanding officer did not support Petrov at the time, he was the one who revealed the incident after the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. If Col. Gen. Yury Votintsev had not spoken out, Petrov said he himself "would have forgotten about it like a bad dream."

After his story was told, Petrov has received accolades, international awards and became known as "the man who saved the world."

But his role won him little fame in his homeland. He continued to live in a small apartment in the Moscow suburb of Fryazino. There have been no official reports or statements about his death from any Russian government agency.

Schumacher said it was important for him to let the world know about Petrov's passing because "we owe this man a lot."

- end CBC piece


Such intuition and courage is almost unheard of. Thanks to his judgement, we are all here today. Truly the right man in the right place at the right time.

B.

[Fellow Aspirant]

I do not think the US President has any remote chance, or any power, to launch a nuclear attack... If they could've done that, they would've done it years ago.

And who is "they", exactly? Your confidence flies in the face of the testimony of hundreds of people who actually run the system. I wish I could share your optimism about an alien "Deus ex machina" wrt the launching of ICBMs, but I cannot.

B.

[Sunny-side-up]

One thing that worries me is the well developed 'Mind control' programs.
Such programs over ride common human and the desire to live.
such programs can make robots of anyone including those charged with the duty to fire or not to fire :(

[Fellow Aspirant]

One thing that worries me is the well developed 'Mind control' programs.
Such programs over ride common human and the desire to live.
such programs can make robots of anyone including those charged with the duty to fire or not to fire :(

Too true, I think.

Thanks, Sunny-side, for adding yet another layer of anxiety. :shocked:

B.

[Daozen]

I do not think the US President has any remote chance, or any power, to launch a nuclear attack... If they could've done that, they would've done it years ago.

And who is "they", exactly? Your confidence flies in the face of the testimony of hundreds of people who actually run the system. I wish I could share your optimism about an alien "Deus ex machina" wrt the launching of ICBMs, but I cannot.

B.

I didn't say aliens. I said they weren't from outer space.

OK, forget about outside intervention. Look at the alt media. There have been hundreds, if not thousands of warnings of nuclear attacks and destruction over the last 20 years. All of them, without exception, have been utter delusion. Don't have a cow, man. Now how many "insider testimonies" have turned out to be a pile of lies? Reality is always branching off, and we can choose our own timeline. If there was a nuclear attack, I'd spend my last minutes learning Chinese and playing Ukulele, or hanging out with people I loved, instead of cringing in fear at paper shadows.

Anyway, it's your reality, and you can spend it as your wish. Enjoy.

[findingneo]

I find your thread and contact very interesting Fellow Aspirant, and also what Daozen has to say.

I watched "The Killshot" by Major Ed Dames a while back. In it he talks about numerous Remote Viewing that both he and his students identified as being huge activity from the sun, hitting earth and causing mass scale extinction, but not a total loss of the human species. He says they, the RV'ers picked up on use of nuclear weapons on the Korean Peninsula by the Nth Koreans, and, a the space shuttle type craft being forced to land, due to being hit by space rocks, or something. These were the last significant events prior to the sun activity "Kill Shot".

A few folk who research Interdimensionals, have said that places where nuclear materials are used, is where the interdimensionals can come into our reality more easily. So who knows if they are hanging out near nuclear installations, and make nuclear weapons inert because they are here to prevent our own destruction, or whether the material in nuclear weapons reaches into their own reality? I would like to think it for service to other reasons, but wishing it does not make it so, unfortunately. If it is, I wish they would say as much. If the good guys are out there, their silence is loud.

[Fellow Aspirant]

findingneo

Yeah, for sure. But that's the basic, issue, isn't it? Why don't "they" reveal themselves to the populace as a whole, instead of just to certain of us here on Earth. And keep aside those who rue the attention of being abducted, although some of us are delighted, apparently.

As to their interest in our nukes, there are many tales of why and wherefore, ranging from the interventions at Minot, Malmstrom and Bentwaters to meddling with launched missiles. Kerry Cassidy is on record as stating that a nuclear eruption here (on our planet and in our dimension), actually opens (rips?) holes that allow the entry into our world of entities from other dimensions - entities that are willing and able to wreak havoc for us, as well as other entities sharing our reality. The warnings at Minot and Malstrom, where twenty ICBMs, ten per installation, were put offline simultaneously with the appearance of the glowing red vehicle at the gate, and then put back online with the same 'casual' air, definitely sent a message to the military about their helplessness. What I came across only recently was that at least one of the missiles that had been deactivated came back online and went into its launch sequence. The human operators were helpless to intervene, and could only breathe a sigh of relief when the missile went dormant just seconds before it would have launched. As for Bentwaters, Bob Dean shared that it had been revealed to him that not only had the nuclear missiles been 'tampered with' (as per the original stories) by the visiting craft, but that at least one had actually been stolen. Disappeared. Talk about rocking your world. But with such power at their fingertips (tentacle tips?) why have we been given nothing but warnings? We are not a species that deals in subtleties when it comes to global danger, especially when the dangers are cloaked in military secrecy. We can't even all agree that we're killing our planet now, for god's sake. Too many of us turn blind eyes to what is right in front of us, ravaging our homes and the homes of every living thing with fires, floods and toxic air.

As for solar kill shots, yeah, if one were to transpire, only the elite with access to the DUMBs would stand any chance, but that's a concern for a different timeline, if you will. This thread is about the threat posed by the all too human system of nuclear expiration and how we might take actions to lessen the possibilty of it happening.

We just need to wake up and agree on the nature of the threat.

Be well,

Brian

[DNA]

I do not think the US President has any remote chance, or any power, to launch a nuclear attack... If they could've done that, they would've done it years ago.

And who is "they", exactly? Your confidence flies in the face of the testimony of hundreds of people who actually run the system. I wish I could share your optimism about an alien "Deus ex machina" wrt the launching of ICBMs, but I cannot.

B.

Trump has done an excellent job of stopping further military ventures.
If Hillary would have won we would absolutely be on our way to World War III right now.
We have been given a stay of execution with Trump's election.
Thank God for President Trump.

[DNA]

I do not think the US President has any remote chance, or any power, to launch a nuclear attack... If they could've done that, they would've done it years ago.

And who is "they", exactly? Your confidence flies in the face of the testimony of hundreds of people who actually run the system. I wish I could share your optimism about an alien "Deus ex machina" wrt the launching of ICBMs, but I cannot.

B.

I didn't say aliens. I said they weren't from outer space.

OK, forget about outside intervention. Look at the alt media. There have been hundreds, if not thousands of warnings of nuclear attacks and destruction over the last 20 years. All of them, without exception, have been utter delusion. Don't have a cow, man. Now how many "insider testimonies" have turned out to be a pile of lies. Reality is always branching off, and we can choose our own timeline. If there was a nuclear attack, I'd spend my last minutes learning Chinese and playing Ukulele, or hanging out with people I loved, instead of cringing in fear at paper shadows.

Anyway, it's your reality, and you can spend it as your wish. Enjoy.

I'm just throwing this out there.
I read a book 13 years ago called "UFO Contact From Acart". One of the those wonderful Wendelle Stevens's books. Wendelle's books should be the highest priority for folks wishing to get a handle on the UFO phenomenon in my opinion.
Many things stand out as far as this work is concerned lending a certain aura of authenticity.
Arthur Berlet was abducted by aliens who looked like mediterranean human beings.
This was back in 58' in Brazil. Arthur was midway through a long walk he decided to take a nap in a farmer's field. He awoke to these folks from Acart collecting plant specimans, these folks thought Arthur was the farmer so they zapped him and drugged him and took him home to their planet, of which it is said they are our closest neighbor in terms of intelligent life.
The planet Acart has over 20 Billion souls, and one of the problems they have is food, so they are searching for foods that will grow on their planet.
Acart is over populated and that is important to know going forward for the little tid bit I wanted to offer here.
When leaving the planet Arthur Berlet describes being told he must be drugged and given certain problem preventing medications due to a radiation belt surrounding Earth. This was back in 58' before the discovery of the Van-Allen belts.
So now on to the pertinent message.

The folks from Acart tell Arthur that they are actually hoping and waiting for mankind on Earth to engage in a nuclear war.
They state that if Earth loses 75% or more of all human life they have been told they can come in and engage in bringing their people over and making earth a habitat for folks of Acart being as they are so over populated.
When Arthur asks how they would deal with the radiation the Acartians explain they have the technology to eliminate the radiation problem.
Arthur is also told that the remaining humans would be incorporated into the Acartian society and that for all intents and purposes we would be better off if this were to happen.

On another note when Billy Meier (completely seperate) asked his Plieadians who the closest occupied planet was he was told Acart.
This was back in the 70's, there was no internet and the Arthur Berlet story was a pretty obscure unknown story.

Anyway, just throwing that out there in case folks wish to research that on their own. :)

[Helene West]

I'd sooner worry about losing the small amount of money/assets I and mine have in an economic downturn that the banking and investment house families can pull on us at any time. We already had a taste in 2008 so that is more real to me. I simply can't worry about et's and a nuclear death will likely be quick. A life of poverty and the harsh adjustments thereof speak louder to me.

[Daozen]

Dying in a nuclear blast while playing the Ukelele would be a fantastic way to go. One minute, you are strumming lazy chords under a tree... the next, raptured in a milisecond of luminous incandesence. I do not wish to tempt fate, but I am not worried.

[Fellow Aspirant]

I do not think the US President has any remote chance, or any power, to launch a nuclear attack... If they could've done that, they would've done it years ago.

And who is "they", exactly? Your confidence flies in the face of the testimony of hundreds of people who actually run the system. I wish I could share your optimism about an alien "Deus ex machina" wrt the launching of ICBMs, but I cannot.

B.

Trump has done an excellent job of stopping further military ventures.
If Hillary would have won we would absolutely be on our way to World War III right now.
We have been given a stay of execution with Trump's election.
Thank God for President Trump.

I'd say that there are at least 18 former Launch Control Officers who would vehemently disagree with you, my friend.
As for Clinton, your conjecture is, I'd say, far more affected by your ideology than any possible facts. She's not President, so we can only guess.

Brian

[DNA]

I do not think the US President has any remote chance, or any power, to launch a nuclear attack... If they could've done that, they would've done it years ago.

And who is "they", exactly? Your confidence flies in the face of the testimony of hundreds of people who actually run the system. I wish I could share your optimism about an alien "Deus ex machina" wrt the launching of ICBMs, but I cannot.

B.

Trump has done an excellent job of stopping further military ventures.
If Hillary would have won we would absolutely be on our way to World War III right now.
We have been given a stay of execution with Trump's election.
Thank God for President Trump.

I'd say that there are at least 18 former Launch Control Officers who would vehemently disagree with you, my friend.
As for Clinton, your conjecture is, I'd say, far more affected by your ideology than any possible facts. She's not President, so we can only guess.

Brian

We are not capable of talking politics, an abyss of unlearning and disinformation separate us.
Nothing I can state will be accepted by you because you are still of the mindset that what you hear on CNN/ABC/NBC is more correct than not.

There is a news article out right now, where Moby the musician/entertainer talks about how he was approached by the CIA and asked to give anti-Trump posts on his twitter page. Moby defends his anti-Trump stance by saying this, but little does he know how he is actually showing us how he and all of Hollywood are mindless puppets.
The CIA since it's infancy was a tool used by the banking elite (think robber barons) to control Washington DC.
The CIA were controlling the media in the 70's with operation mockingbird and other such programs, and they have only become more iron fisted with the media since.

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[Helene West]

When humans can see something with their own eyes they then believe.

I watched our disinformation agents at work pre-computer days in college while doing various activism. It made an impression on me obviously for keeps. Whether physically disrupting events or sending a nice informant to pretend they were interested in your cause to ask so many 'well meaning' questions or offer so many suggestions meant to have you chasing your tail and getting no where fast. (stay with me here I Am responding to the post...)

Centuries ago humans could see who ruled them in the castles and physically interacted with their agents. When we got to the point where we no longer saw them in person or physically interacted with their soldiers/agents - VOILA! to the human mind, the ruling class no longer existed. They can see obama, they can see celebrities, therefore they exist...Those who own the majority shares of all the major banks and industries, they can't see them so they don't really exist for the majority.

I ask folks 'what do you think our abc agencies do for a living?" They look at me quizzically and say something like, "well, they defend our country". This is today, not 20 years ago. Meanwhile, simultaneously I've listened to talk show hosts and guests say, "People are waking up, people are waking up..."!! Very few, in my view have awakened..

The ruling class of Europe had a need to boost the peasantry up temporarily to help them conquer much of the world. They could not get the job done with rag tag illiterate idiots. They encouraged a certain degree of education to increase their base of service workers to draw from particularly during the imperialism days and by default as they made infinite profits the 'middle-class' was born. The needs of the ruling class was the only reason for the birth of a large middle class. THE MIDDLE CLASS WAS A TEMPORARY PROJECT AND THE PROJECT IS OVER.

The Ruling Class Does Not Need Us Anymore. They needed an educated middle class for a short period of time. It's over. We will be fighting just for existence but if one cannot even admit that there is a ruling class you can't or won't fight. They need a middle class in africa, asia and other depressed areas to help them drain the countries of assets. They are finished with the people of the western world because they already own the western world. While they do what some assassins refer to as 'clean-up' with us, they are building the middle class in other areas but AI and robotics will be used to help 'clean' us up and get rid of us here in the west.

If you can't admit there is a ruling class, then you can't admit they have their squires, knights, advisors and counselors just like in the Middle Ages. Our Intel agents are their squires, and soldiers and counselors. They work for those who rule. Our congress is afraid of them. We have a right to be afraid of them. We don't know how much control if any the President has anymore beyond that of official traveling mouth piece.

Blaming one limited individual for nuclear or any other problem that took decades/centuries to evolve is so tiring, so exasperatingly, galactically stupid...
I don't believe I will see large amounts of folks 'wake-up' in my lifetime if ever. They'll be destroyed mentally or physically by technology first.

In a way the folks of the Middle Ages were more Awake than we are...

[Fellow Aspirant]

Dear Helene

After an unavoidably long absence, I am now able to get online again. I apologize for keeping you waiting so long for a response.

So, here goes: I have had a very difficult time integrating your response with the original post of this thread. While I must agree with most of your claims, I think they would be better off somewhere else - maybe in their own thread.

Try as I might, I am unable to find anywhere in your reply anything that has to do with the open letter of seventeen former nuclear launch officers declaring their doubts about being able to launch a nuclear attack on the orders of Donald Trump. And that, my friend, is the issue at hand.

Good luck in the future,

Brian

[Fellow Aspirant]

Hi DNA

As per my reply to Ms. West:

After an unavoidably long absence, I am now able to get online again. I apologize for keeping you waiting so long for a response.

So, here goes: I have had a very difficult time integrating your response with the original post of this thread. While I must agree with most of your claims, I think they would be better off somewhere else - maybe in their own thread.

Try as I might, I am unable to find anywhere in your reply anything that has to do with the open letter of seventeen former nuclear launch officers declaring their doubts about being able to launch a nuclear attack on the orders of Donald Trump. And that, my friend, is the issue at hand.

So thanks for trying to help with my education vis-a-vis the Cabal and the Illuminati and the Deep State and TPTB and mind control and surveillance. There is always something to learn, of course, but you are really not helping the discussion. Unless, of course, you think that somehow the existence of the seventeen former nuclear launch officers (plus my buddy) are a result of the machinations of The Deep State. To this, I have no useful response.

Let's stick to the reality of seventeen highly trusted and thoroughly vetted U.S. military officers contemplating mutiny, shall we?

Brian

Good luck in the future,

Brian

[Bill Ryan]

It's possible that a more useful (and interesting!) discussion might be in response to the question:


"Who would stop any sitting US president's Armageddon order?"

That's because an 'Armageddon order' may VERY well have come from Hillary Clinton, had she been elected, and also conceivably from any other president in our lifetime, including Obama, Reagan, both of the Bushes, and certainly JFK.

@Brian: pinning Trump's name to this very intriguing question underscores your belief that he's more likely to be the president giving the order than anyone else (which itself may be very debatable). And so you're using the thread for a dual purpose, one of which is political.

Which issue would you like readers to address? :)

[Fellow Aspirant]

It's possible that a more useful (and interesting!) discussion might be in response to the question:


"Who would stop any sitting US president's Armageddon order?"

That's because an 'Armageddon order' may VERY well have come from Hillary Clinton, had she been elected, and also conceivably from any other president in our lifetime, including Obama, Reagan, both of the Bushes, and certainly JFK.

@Brian: pinning Trump's name to this very intriguing question underscores your belief that he's more likely to be the president giving the order than anyone else (which itself may be very debatable). And so you're using the thread for a dual purpose, one of which is political.

Which issue would you like readers to address? :)

Hi Bill

Such a question would be better asked of the nuclear launch officers who posted the open letter. My thread could have been started by a staunch supporter of Trump in an attempt to highlight disciplinary concerns w/i the military. It wasn't ME who pinned Trump's name to it.

As their actions are a historical first, I'd bet that their felt need was a response to the sitting president. Why has/had there never before been such a letter?

One only has to read the contents of their letter to understand that their action has been taken to respond to their reading of the character of this specific president. They mention no other leader:

"In the final weeks of the presidential election, we sounded our alarm over Donald Trump’s fitness to serve as commander-in-chief, with absolute authority over the nation’s nuclear arsenal. Joining hundreds of leaders across the political spectrum in questioning Trump’s temperament, judgement and indifference to expert advice, we warned that Trump should not be allowed to have his finger on the proverbial “Red Button.”

One year into the Trump presidency, our alarm has only intensified and we must raise our voices again. The president has had ample opportunity to educate and humble himself to the grave responsibilities of his office. Instead, he consistently shows himself to be easily baited, stubborn in his ignorance of world politics and diplomacy, and quick to brandish nuclear threats. The reality of this presidency is worse than we feared.

[edit for brevity]

We and our nation cannot abide being hostages to the mood swings of a petulant and foolish commander - in-chief. No individual, especially Donald Trump,
should hold the absolute power to destroy nations. That is a clear lesson of this presidency and one that we, as former stewards of the launch keys, embrace with full conviction."

Within the letter, they call for a more robust policy and sequence of launch protocols. This concern is based, they say, on the behaviour of Donald Trump.

So, my purpose in posting the open letter was to draw attention to the fact that this had occurred. By its very existence it is very political, and speaks to the rifts within the US military and the opinions of some within it about their trust in the decision-making abilities of Donald J. Trump.

Whether this is the result of a 'White Hat' group within the military, I cannot say. I'd bet, though, that it is more the actions of a brotherhood/sisterhood of former officers who have this one issue on their agenda, rather than the actions of an ongoing group with other things on their plate.

For these former officers, even though they are no longer serving, to openly express the possibility of mutiny/treason is virtually unprecedented, and conveys starkly the new reality that the United States finds itself in.

Having said that, even though Trump is the one whose thinking is being second guessed by these officers, it's entirely possible that the problem of having an unreliable Commander in Chief may occur again. For this future, the LCOs urge change in the process. Such a revamp had been mooted for many years, but the spectre of an irrational cause of nuclear war was never seen to be particularly urgent. So again, this is a first; before Trump, it did not happen. So what, we may ask, is different about him?

Subsequent commenters are free to speculate about other hypothetical presidential behaviour, but the issue presented has triggered by Trump. And the question remains: "Who would stop Trump's Armageddon Order?"

Political. You bet.

Brian

[Bill Ryan]

So what, we may ask, is different about him?


He's [largely] independent, [largely] not in the pockets of the globalists, and seen as [to quite some extent] a highly irritating obstacle to the NWO/Deep State agenda.

Therefore the Mockingbird Media (as Doug Hagmann is now calling them) is acting almost in complete conducted chorus as a propaganda arm for the Deep State.

Quite a few people are still buying that propaganda, no doubt including some in the military.

Moral of the story: be smart and look deeper.

Don't necessarily buy and swallow what you see and hear on CBC. Brian, they're controlled and choreographed, too. :)

[Fellow Aspirant]

So what, we may ask, is different about him?


He's [largely] independent, [largely] not in the pockets of the globalists, and seen as [to quite some extent] a highly irritating obstacle to the NWO/Deep State agenda.

Therefore the Mockingbird Media (as Doug Hagmann is now calling them) is acting almost in complete conducted chorus as a propaganda arm for the Deep State.

Quite a few people are still buying that propaganda, no doubt including some in the military.

Moral of the story: be smart and look deeper.

Don't necessarily buy and swallow what you see and hear on CBC. Brian, they're controlled and choreographed, too. :)

Bill

Although I am a huge skeptic wrt the MSM, I am less skeptical when it comes to quotations of people and/or their written words. In this case, I am reporting on a published letter containing the names of its authors. Plus,as I said, the opinion of a friend. I know my friend exists. Are you saying I should doubt the existence of the 17 authors of the letter? What possible role could the MSM have had in the creation of such a letter?

Brian

[Bill Ryan]

What possible role could the MSM have had in the creation of such a letter?

It's highly probable that the MSM had a view in forming (and, I'd suggest, contaminating) the authors' views.

It's unlikely that any of the officers in question know Trump personally, or are senior enough to be connected at very high levels in the Pentagon.

Basically, they're citizens with a very specialized job, and listen to gossip just like many other humans. I'd suggest it's highly likely they're media-influenced.

[Fellow Aspirant]

I don't think you're suggesting that one should have had some personal exposure to the President before being handed "The Keys", are you? That would be raising the bar on selection for the position a little too high, I would think. Besides, it would be safe to say, in the same vein, that no other president had personally vetted any or all of the LCOs, either. So, yeah, these people have obviously formed an opinion of Trump based on second hand information. So let's put that objection to the side.

I assume that by media influenced, you mean the MSM. And yes, how anyone can avoid encountering the MSM these days is beyond me. Being people, I would assume that they would be subject to the same influences as anyone else (including us) in our culture: rumours (the military is rife with rumours) personal interactions with their families and professional colleagues, professional interactions with the same, and, of course, the press, television and online purveyors of their choice. So of course their opinions are influenced by the media. But what does this mean? Is the vile CNN or MSNBC or NY Times required exposure for these people? Are they all avid followers of these outlets? Or only these outlets? How about the FOX network? Or Russia Today? Maybe some of them support Alex Jones or even Benjamin Fulford? They swim in the same sea as us, and we know what's true, don't we? For that matter, they may all be members of this forum.

There are thousands of places for one to find "the truth" these days. It comes down, as always, to discernment. We are in no better position to know what these officers regularly peruse than we are to know if they have ever shaken the President's hand. Let's not dismiss the thinking of these highly intelligent, deeply responsible officers because we disagree with their political views. (And I continue to maintain that everything is political).

I think we make a grave error in logic if and when we look askance at anyone who disagrees with us and label them misinformed or ignorant. For all we know, they may be influenced by Reptoids or the Illuminati or even by an infusion of sentient black goo.

The point is not HOW they formed their opinions but what they have done based on their beliefs. And they have openly questioned the fitness of the current Commander in Chief to declare nuclear war. They have also advocated for a different set of nuclear protocols in order to prevent any future President from having the same unilateral power.

So, unless we are prepared to doubt the existence of these seventeen (plus one) former Launch Control Officers, we are faced with the fact of their open call for change. I think that they exist, and that their opinions were arrived at by a soverigne, conscious weighing of their personal realities.

They stand by their convictions, as must the current holders of the keys. To spell it out, the real question I have posed is:

"Would the current holders of the keys mutiny rather than unleash Armageddon?"

For the first time in the nuclear history of the United States, there is doubt. There are, as I see it, only two ways we will ever know the answer to this: either they send an open letter to the world declaring their intent, or Trump gives an order to launch.

How has it come to this?

Brian

[AutumnW]

Probably a red herring. Trump isn't likely going to be pushing any buttons but can see where people might be concerned. There's only one very large and well organized group on the planet who have members high up in all branches of government and who could easily see one of their own in power -- and that is Christian fundamentalists trying to bring about Christ's return. And pushing the button they probably feel would be one of the ways to initiate it.

Trump is not religious or suicidal.

[Fellow Aspirant]

Good point, AutumnW. The Illuminati are unlikely to kill the "Golden Goose", but folks who want Armageddon are always itching for it.

So far, so good. :rapture:

B.