Thoughts on Bitcoin, Cryptocurrencies and related matters.

[ZoSo925]

[ Mod-edit: The first 13 posts below began their life on the thread Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?99133-Bitcoin-the-war-on-cash-Clif-High-and-the-NSA-s-long-range-plans&p=1209245&viewfull=1#post1209245), before I split them off to this new thread. -- Paul. ]

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I used to follow Dave Kranzler and he's got lot of interesting things to say. The deeper you get into it, it's like entering a Corey Goode world with all sorts of characters.

Apple itself should not exist as a company. At least 30% of Apple's total value really belongs to Nokia. Apple, Samsung, Google all stole thousands of patents that belong to Nokia and they have won countless lawsuits over the years. The market makes no sense, Nokia is trading under $6 while Apple is a Trillion dollar company ?

If you take 30% away from Apple, Google and Samsung and give it to Nokia where it rightfully belongs, that is a very beautiful picture for the investors in Nokia

If the Stock Market crashes and peoples money get wiped out, what happens to the people who invested in Gold EFT Stocks or Junior Miners ? The historic anomalies of 100-Bagger Stocks, where does that money come from ?

I've always read of people getting rich from every Stock Market Crash in History. There are some winners

[ThePythonicCow]

Well ... a couple of things you said in earlier posts, above, ZoSo925, seemed incorrect to me, so I stated my differing opinions and presented evidence for them.

But rather than respond by demonstrating specific awareness of these differences and engaging in a discussion of them, you responded with more scattershot (from my perspective) comments, related to the topics considered in this thread, but showing a rather limited awareness of the ways in which the views presented here differ from more conventional wisdom.

Whether this is due to some disability on your part, or due to some deliberately distracting ability on your part, or due to some misconception on my part ... I can't say for sure. But for now at least, such persistent distractions (from my perspective) are not what I welcome in the discussion here, on this thread.

[ZoSo925]

This is all a mystery. I really don't know how to digest the video you posted. I watched a good portion of the video but it's speculation. I have seen 15 different people speculate that a major crash will happen but what exactly happens or their speculation is totally different from the other.

The market is totally manipulated and rotten to the core, and I totally agree there will be a crash. It's just I dont believe everyone who has some sort of money in the market will totally loose. I did a search on Brandon Smith and he shows up a ton of times on Silver Doctors. Majority of people do not have anything positive to say about Brandon according to the comments on the first 2 search results. I sometimes visit Silver Doctors and it seems more people hate the site and find it for comedy value according to the posts there and I see people every day post and hate the Authors on that website

For some odd reason I just do not trust Bitcoin at all. Blockchain or whatever the latest and greatest technology. Anything Electronic and related to Binary Code can and always will be hacked. It does not matter if a Computer's network cable is disconnected, there is special networking capabilities through the electric power outlet that let's it communicate back. You can actually connect to the internet and post on this message board directly through your electric Wall Outlet and not even use your Cable/DSL/Dialup ISP with the right eqipment :) Nothing Electronic or Binary will ever be safe.

Edit: Sorry for stepping on any toes. I realize this is a Pro-Bitcoin thread and will avoid posting in this thread out of respect and any future drama. I don't like Clif High or Brandon Smith either. I thought this was a community thread or news thread of some sort and not a take it or leave it...this is the true answer type of deal

[ZoSo925]

Sorry to shake things up or derail things inadvertently. I'm just seeking truth and there is nothing but smoke and mirrors in this system we are living in

The bottom point I was trying to say is the market is so rigged and no one knows what is going to happen. The honest truth is the Stock Market is not FDIC insured and that is only system we are promised in the United States from any crash, regardless is the X amount of money. The Denis Leary quote - Life sucks, get a f-ing helmet. Whatever happens in this mess there are going to be winners and looser. We are all paying taxes to our government and have faith in their support for us after all and that's the way we have been living.

I've been reading around this website - RationalWiki. They have lot of funny stuff in that site. I never heard of Woo before but that is funny as hell and makes sense to represent things. Bitcoin is Woo, and they even have a sub-page called Engineer woo that I'm about to check out.

In respect this thread Title has the word Bitcoin in it, in ways I consider Bitcoin as a Rabbit Hole. For me personally, I choose to ignore it has any future. Based on that Binary and Electric is a flawed design and will never be fully safe. I'm not a mathematician, and numbers do lie. Maybe that is why numbers go to infinite is because it can be twisted and manipulated in every possible form that it keeps going on forever and forever.

In finance world and everything else in the world. We have Black Swan Events and Magic Fairy Dust that can't be explained.

That RationalWiki is wrong though. I found errors on Gold Bug. They claimed there is not enough Gold in the world and that is not true. Natural Earthquakes create Natural Gold and I could go into other things

[thalox]

A group of stocks can crash and that money will pop up and gained somewhere else in the market.
That's a misconception, in my view ... a common misconception.

In major sell offs, the money doesn't go "somewhere else". It vanishes.

Let's say there's a million shares of Apple stock outstanding, at $100/share, for a total market capitalization ("market cap") of $100 million.

Then let's say that a mere one hundred of those shares trade down, at $60/share. That transaction involved a mere 100 x $60 == $6000. However the total market cap of Apple just fell, from $100 million, to $60 million, because the market cap is computed by multiplying the last sale price times the number of shares outstanding. Some $40 million (the old market cap of $100 million, minus the new market cap of $60 million) just went Poof !!

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We are presently in what's arguably the largest financial bubble in recorded human history ... stocks, bonds, real estate, derivatives, ... and debt.

I anticipate that, just as the bubble upward has grown to incorporate major markets around the world, so shall the collapse downward.

Historically, this is how the "big boys" operate ... pump and dump ... now being conducted on the most massive scale we've yet seen.

With all these derivatives and inflationary type of money floating around, i can see how the money just goes "poof." i think its by design if you follow the history of the monetary policy. I keep on hearing about gold and silver and food and water and air and perhaps crypto. In my opinion regardless of what we are going to, and how we come out in the end, I think it was by design. Do you really think that the rulers of the world will allow for the control to be given away from lack of planning? I think this was the plan for so long.

I do not have the details but if I was to put myself in their shoes and I controlled the worlds money supplies, would I have come this far to let it all just be taken away? I would believe that if i was any good about controlling things, that this was by design to let the masses believe they are choosing their lives when in reality all they choose is a flavor of my control. Maybe I am reading too deep into this, and i may not have any information to back it up but that is what it seems. What they show and what they hide are always so different.

my overall gripe is how do we overcome this change we havent really a clue about? I believe we are just wanting to live a peaceful life and it seems the elite are trying to control us every which way they can along in the process and allow for the illusion of freedom. I dont buy it.

my hope is that we can overcome this slavehood with our morals intact. Sometimes the environment around us manipulates us and we dont even know it. the money part of it, will help me overcome this if i wouldnt have to focus on money so much to live. I guess with all of this, that is my overall agenda. come out ahead so I can start helping those around me and get out of the rat race. lol. one can dream right?

[ThePythonicCow]

I ... will avoid posting in this thread ...
I was hoping that you meant that. Apparently you didn't.

I hope for your sake that your mind is not actually as confused as it seems to me to be, from what I can make of your posts on this thread.

I hope you don't continue to post on this thread.

As a matter of fair play and due process, I usually avoid unilaterally using my "super admin" powers to settle what might be construed as a "personal conflict." But from time to time, in similar situations, I have encouraged the moderators, as a team, to take action. Sometimes they agree to, sometimes they don't ... that's their call.

Myself, and a few other members who have interest in these matters are using this thread to gain further insights into some challenging, but related, topics. Clear, original, insightful thinking is appreciated.

[ThePythonicCow]

Do you really think that the rulers of the world will allow for the control to be given away from lack of planning? I think this was the plan for so long.

I do not have the details but if I was to put myself in their shoes and I controlled the worlds money supplies, would I have come this far to let it all just be taken away?
Agreed - the rulers of the world have no plans to just let it all get taken away from them, and they have various, powerful, means at their disposal to ensure that they remain the "rulers" of this world.

[ZoSo925]

I feel horrible and sorry. It's all part of 1 big project I'm trying figure stuff out in life in general. In a convulated explanation - A necessary evil is necessary inorder to break the boundary of explanation in order to advance to next level.

I've come to the conclusion the whole system is rigged from the ground up. We are in a fixed environment stuck in a bubble. What's worst is the people who are in control know this and using it to their advantage.

Many of us have discovered the Glass that needs to be broken but we have to be very careful. We have absolutely no idea what happens once we break the glass. - It's basically a leap of faith from there.

The whole number system is rigged. We have the tools and material to build that Tower of Babel but that friggin Black Swan could just come out of nowhere and not only knock down the tower but screw things up so bad that the next people to try to find the material and tools to build again is going to take longer and even impossible by all means necessary.

Another major breakthrough needs to be involved. It's definitely something as big as a 4th Dimension or Dark Matter involved.

[ZoSo925]

The whole concept of Bitcoin is interesting and has the IBM Token Ring capability or similar, but what is much different than all other Technology methods is this concept is using much more advanced Physics than normal computing.

There is money to be made on Bitcoin right now and there are tons of ways. Looking at Bitcoin in General and what it really does shine the spotlight on Video Cards - Nvidia and AMD.

I loved the 3DFX Voodoo 2 Video card when it came it, but was so upset when NVIDIA bought them out. I hated their cards, junky drivers and how they manipulated their software drivers to make their results look better over ATI and it was all BS.

AMD had merged with ATI and now we are at the crossroads or getting very close to it. Video Cards = Physics needed for the future of this Technology. Hopefully this is not all used against us as we are all the slaves helping build this Pyramid.

What it boils down to with this is Corporations in this new generation. It's all about the Copyrights and Patents. Whoever owns the most is King.

I forget part of the story behind part of the crossroads but it's between ATI vs Nvidia. ATI owns the patents of some of this Architecture and considered the sweet real gems needed. It has something to do with the X86 Architecture , but it's something that goes real deeper. Another lost relic is Matrox. They were a very popular company back in the day. Ever since the NVIDIA and AMD mergers this company has been kind of sitting in the shadows and a private company.

Matrox definitely has some very nice patents, but how much long of a wait is needed to make them bankrupt or to give up the goods to the bigger fish in the pond. Also, Texas Instruments. I have very very very strong senses on this company as well. They all have a piece of the puzzle. The mystery is how it's all going to be merged together and final results will be

[thalox]

I feel horrible and sorry. It's all part of 1 big project I'm trying figure stuff out in life in general. In a convulated explanation - A necessary evil is necessary inorder to break the boundary of explanation in order to advance to next level.

I've come to the conclusion the whole system is rigged from the ground up. We are in a fixed environment stuck in a bubble. What's worst is the people who are in control know this and using it to their advantage.

Many of us have discovered the Glass that needs to be broken but we have to be very careful. We have absolutely no idea what happens once we break the glass. - It's basically a leap of faith from there.

The whole number system is rigged. We have the tools and material to build that Tower of Babel but that friggin Black Swan could just come out of nowhere and not only knock down the tower but screw things up so bad that the next people to try to find the material and tools to build again is going to take longer and even impossible by all means necessary.

Another major breakthrough needs to be involved. It's definitely something as big as a 4th Dimension or Dark Matter involved.

I agree with your perception. Also I think you and Paul had a miscommunication and I was picking up what you were putting down and didn't take offense to it one bit. I believe you to be someone who came into the discussion randomly and not reading all 18 pages maybe? I'm assuming a lot. I read all of these pages last month and have been trying to catch up to the discussion. I am still in the learning process myself.

I do agree the great monetary reset is here. Will the world die? No, i don't think so. Will some die from this, yes. It will shift a lifestyle and as humans we shift in small areas of our lives, i believe this to be a monetary shift.

I try to be one with the world around us. "Jack of all trades, master of nothing." Monetary wise, in my position i am still a bit nervous of the coming changes and my agenda is to get past this so I can continue to contribute to the world knowledge and learn as much as i can before I move on to the "next level."

I do believe that the crypto arena has been a flavor of the agenda of the elite for some time. So what will this bring us to? I havent the clue in the details of the every day life of humans but i do think that a shift is coming soon.

Speaking of crypto, why not make a project avalon crypto of some sorts. maybe Paul is leet enough to help run the joint. lol. decentralize the server or the "project"?

the avalon coin? or the project coin? something? I dont know. why wouldnt you want to do something like that? If we are talking about crypto and all, what does this community look like in that sense?

ok. I just went on a tangent, sorry about that. I have been really interested in what Project Avalon thinks as well about this topic.

The great "tip top totalitarian effect" as David Icke would call it. I believe the financial sector to be compartmentalized and most in the field dont see it coming.

I believe that crypto is here to stay as its main focus is for AI to start surfacing. I guess my question is, how do we become a part of the change that the world is coming to anyways?

[thalox]

The whole concept of Bitcoin is interesting and has the IBM Token Ring capability or similar, but what is much different than all other Technology methods is this concept is using much more advanced Physics than normal computing.

There is money to be made on Bitcoin right now and there are tons of ways. Looking at Bitcoin in General and what it really does shine the spotlight on Video Cards - Nvidia and AMD.

I loved the 3DFX Voodoo 2 Video card when it came it, but was so upset when NVIDIA bought them out. I hated their cards, junky drivers and how they manipulated their software drivers to make their results look better over ATI and it was all BS.

AMD had merged with ATI and now we are at the crossroads or getting very close to it. Video Cards = Physics needed for the future of this Technology. Hopefully this is not all used against us as we are all the slaves helping build this Pyramid.

What it boils down to with this is Corporations in this new generation. It's all about the Copyrights and Patents. Whoever owns the most is King.

I forget part of the story behind part of the crossroads but it's between ATI vs Nvidia. ATI owns the patents of some of this Architecture and considered the sweet real gems needed. It has something to do with the X86 Architecture , but it's something that goes real deeper. Another lost relic is Matrox. They were a very popular company back in the day. Ever since the NVIDIA and AMD mergers this company has been kind of sitting in the shadows and a private company.

Matrox definitely has some very nice patents, but how much long of a wait is needed to make them bankrupt or to give up the goods to the bigger fish in the pond. Also, Texas Instruments. I have very very very strong senses on this company as well. They all have a piece of the puzzle. The mystery is how it's all going to be merged together and final results will be

Ok, i have been reading up on the tech companies and what they are trying to do. The graphics card companies are making a killing on the mining side of the house in general. There are so many new "googles/microsofts/facebook/apple" companies doing start ups its not even funny. I would like to know who is going to be the big winner in the fight for ASIC's mining as CPU and GPU mining is coming to an end and now emerges another type of processing power.

There is alot of money to be made in crypto that is for sure but once the world inflation kicks in, we perhaps could just break even from what I am reading. I think I watched a random video on Cliff High talking about this as well. I am still skeptical on him btw.

I think that alot of old school "lost relics" that will emerge in a different sense or name or structure, are going to be the companies that have been planning this for ages. The old silk road of the hacker days. The internet days.

I am following a particular crypto that they are talking about AI being the center of it. They will have "oneness" with AI. He has been doing it since the late 90's.

https://singularitynet.io/

This is stuff out of the movies. (as if they have been telling us for years.) This new world is here and I hope we can just find our way through.

If I could relate it to something already in this world, I would say that this crypto tech is the beginning of the HBO show, "West World".

[ZoSo925]

I feel horrible and sorry. It's all part of 1 big project I'm trying figure stuff out in life in general. In a convulated explanation - A necessary evil is necessary inorder to break the boundary of explanation in order to advance to next level.

I've come to the conclusion the whole system is rigged from the ground up. We are in a fixed environment stuck in a bubble. What's worst is the people who are in control know this and using it to their advantage.

Many of us have discovered the Glass that needs to be broken but we have to be very careful. We have absolutely no idea what happens once we break the glass. - It's basically a leap of faith from there.

The whole number system is rigged. We have the tools and material to build that Tower of Babel but that friggin Black Swan could just come out of nowhere and not only knock down the tower but screw things up so bad that the next people to try to find the material and tools to build again is going to take longer and even impossible by all means necessary.

Another major breakthrough needs to be involved. It's definitely something as big as a 4th Dimension or Dark Matter involved.

I agree with your perception. Also I think you and Paul had a miscommunication and I was picking up what you were putting down and didn't take offense to it one bit. I believe you to be someone who came into the discussion randomly and not reading all 18 pages maybe? I'm assuming a lot. I read all of these pages last month and have been trying to catch up to the discussion. I am still in the learning process myself.

I do agree the great monetary reset is here. Will the world die? No, i don't think so. Will some die from this, yes. It will shift a lifestyle and as humans we shift in small areas of our lives, i believe this to be a monetary shift.

I try to be one with the world around us. "Jack of all trades, master of nothing." Monetary wise, in my position i am still a bit nervous of the coming changes and my agenda is to get past this so I can continue to contribute to the world knowledge and learn as much as i can before I move on to the "next level."

I do believe that the crypto arena has been a flavor of the agenda of the elite for some time. So what will this bring us to? I havent the clue in the details of the every day life of humans but i do think that a shift is coming soon.

Speaking of crypto, why not make a project avalon crypto of some sorts. maybe Paul is leet enough to help run the joint. lol. decentralize the server or the "project"?

the avalon coin? or the project coin? something? I dont know. why wouldnt you want to do something like that? If we are talking about crypto and all, what does this community look like in that sense?

ok. I just went on a tangent, sorry about that. I have been really interested in what Project Avalon thinks as well about this topic.

The great "tip top totalitarian effect" as David Icke would call it. I believe the financial sector to be compartmentalized and most in the field dont see it coming.

I believe that crypto is here to stay as its main focus is for AI to start surfacing. I guess my question is, how do we become a part of the change that the world is coming to anyways?


Yea, I think what originally happened is on the Forum Index I saw this thread and no clue where the page was on and all I see is the Market Is Going To Crash or something.

It's was like the whole combination of so many people speculating and the fact we have so many 3-Ring Circuses with all sorts of Side Freak Shows attached promoting, and doing every kind of antics and it's like no no stop the madness.

Forget name, that Brandon kid and see 10,000 other people like him steering people into wrong direction. I'm sure he's a good soul aside from speculating it's I feel he does not know the full picture of things -- While Clif High I'm not so sure about. The guy is totally brilliant no doubt about it and I do like some things he says, but my gut feeling and reading his Aura I do not see good intentions and he's got other plans going on off on the side.

There is so much maddness and people are totally selling their house and life savings and diving into this. The Monetary Shift is totally plausible, we have always been hearing about this 1 World government. It's Communism that was predicted will be the final result with all this but the 2 major factors left to connect the puzzle is Government and Religion.

Which is the right one ? LOL and if it's the right one does it contain all the right elements. Random people always Jews are to blame but that is part of the system design to make us believe that. They are not living in paradise and we are all stuck on this planet together - But now we have to factor in this new Black Swan = Transgender and it appears in order to evolve to the next level this has to be accepted. The media is showing us all the freaks and drama on TV but just like every group they are all not like that. ---- I'm seeing lots of collective patterns here that can be applied to other things

I saw some mention on the GLP forum and they have a sh#%Coin they are calling it but there is so much fighting and drama over Bitcoin (LOL) I think they created a new private forum and opened the door for invite and not sure if it a closed party now or anything.

There is such a big massive cloud of smoke that the only real true safe spot is your normal bank account. As far as investing and investing tactics; it's all based on Luck and Chance with no guarantee.

How we prepare is the grand question. It could maybe be another 100 years ..hahah, or after the next total Apocalypse for that next civilization to start off with.... That some crazy stuff and could be a bottomless pit of speculation.

LOL x 1,000 can you imagine in the year 3049 when the next civilization makes fun of us while living a much better life all to the thanks to us...buahahah

[ZoSo925]

It's so crazy how people make money off this. There are so many combinations and you really don't have to invest money in Bitcoin at all, but rather something associated to it and hit the jackpot beyond your imagination.

I think I actually heard the word ASCI the other week but was not paying attention. I just know it was used mainly regarding Printing or Print Interface.. I'd have to catch up and been since Windows 95 days since I last heard that term

There are going to be tons of Start-up companies like that link. Things get into dangerous waters and major risk. They may ask you for money to start a crowd funding or something or this market too is just like the Bio-Tech market. Put some money here and there and hope one of them gets bought up by a larger company. There all sorts of risk and you also have to deal with day traders and other shorting and manipulating.

I never got to see West World yet and have HULU. There was something very similar on Showtime but it made me so sick and soulless in a way I could not bear to watch anymore...but may attempt to watch it. I forget the name of that show.

In regards to a Global Reset. This is going to be very weird how this will play out. Given the factors all Government and Religion has folded their cards and merged. It's going to be Money Money Money. The next money system could be a completely different architecture from the last.

Little Breadcrumb clues have been dropped how some countries are testing methods of just giving citizens money, even if they are not working at all. On top of this, we are seeing a whole new Philosophy how "Everyone" get's a trophy, even the kids who lost. --- These are little Breadcrumb clues and just speculation

Another odd but moldy Bredcrumb. WTF is up with North Korea ? 2 year of nothing but smack talk and we send several Naval Armadas over there and nothing. Weird stuff with ships getting damaged......Cloud Smoke....Cloud Smoke... Oh look check out Kim Jong-un hot sister at the Olympics. I'd hold on to this breadcrumb just for safe keeping to see if this breadcrumb has merit

Damn, always have more stuff that pops in. Another Moldy odd Breadcrumb is after the Clinton and Trump election they were having a party with the Jesuit Club in fancy suits and they looked like they were best friends all along

[ZoSo925]

I really screwed up and see what went wrong. I had a train of thought from a different topic and was applying to the wrong thread

[Cardillac]

as for info about Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies please start here with darkjournalist's interview with Catherine Austin Fitts:

http://www.darkjournalist.com/s-fitts20.php

please stay well all-

Larry

[ZoSo925]

I've come to the conclusion it boils down to the golden logic of It's really all about survival of the fittest and everybody for themselves.

Regardless of what anyone says, there really is "I" in team


Be very careful because there are Time Out Referees hiding in the shadows.

Never forget the term Black Swan. It's all part of the game and we will never conquer it. Not in this lifetime at least.

Time Out Referee = Black Swan


A black swan event has three properties that make it so.

Rarity
The black swan is a rare event.[3] It lies outside the realm of common experience and nothing in our past experience points to its possibility. A black swan is that million-to-one chance that statisticians said would never happen because it was a million-to-one chance. Of course, million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10.

Extreme impact
When the black swan strikes, it has a massive impact. It is two of the world's tallest buildings being destroyed, it is a stock market crash that wipes out billions, it is a tsunami or earthquake over a major city. Not only is the qualitative nature of the black swan outside our regular experience (meaning we can't see it coming), so is its sheer size — a single event can dominate over all other factors.

Retrospective predictability
This property explains the concept of "black swan blindness" or "black swan denial". It is the illusion that we can actually see things coming. This is because of the narrative fallacy; our ability to construct a sensible story using only the pertinent information, happily discarding the information that wasn't actually useful in the end. This can only be done with the benefit of hindsight — failing to understand this makes you more vulnerable to their effects.




http://7dust.net/PA/Team.jpg

[ZoSo925]

Holy friggin hell. Anyone who claims to be a Mathematician is lying. I am the Mathematician and GOD.

This is why I have always been considered dangerous and called a Black Sheep and Targeted Individual.

It's all true - A Million to 1 Chance is really 9 out of 10 Times. That missing #1 = GOD and GOD chooses what he wants to pass down to others.

[thalox]

as for info about Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies please start here with darkjournalist's interview with Catherine Austin Fitts:

http://www.darkjournalist.com/s-fitts20.php

please stay well all-

Larry

thanks. i was able to see this video a few weeks ago i believe. i do agree with some of it, but i felt the pitch as well. It is very hard to weed through all this information.

[thalox]

this seems very interesting. I wonder if this is attached to pedogate or part of some bigger plan.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/03/20/bitcoin-blockchain-includes-hidden-child-abuse-files/

[amor]

The "be all and end all" of the subject of digital money is that if you can't buy what you want and/or need with it, it is not worth a hoot! Also, if the cash in your pocket is not worth the paper it is written on, at least you are free to offer it to someone in exchange for a loaf of bread. With digital "value(?)," someone else can control your digital account, withhold its use from you, with or without excuse, and you are no better off than the poor chickens in the coup waiting to be roasted.

[kfm27917]

Am I missing something here? Does anyone remember the pyramid scheme from a good number of years ago? Nothing good came from that scheme except for the very few that got in it first and everyone after that took a nosedive. Are we thinking the same thing here? RB

>> How Crypto Currency works . . . an analogy in laymen terms.
>>
>>
>> Not long ago a Merchant found a lot of monkeys that lived near a certain village.
>>
>>
>> One day he came to the Village saying he wanted to buy these monkeys!
>>
>>
>> He announced that he would buy the monkeys at $100 each.
>>
>>
>> The Villagers thought that this man must be crazy - How can somebody buy stray monkeys at $100 each?
>>
>>
>> Still some people caught some monkeys, gave them to this Merchant and he gave $100 for each monkey.
>>
>>
>> This news spread like wildfire and people caught monkeys and sold them to the merchant.
>>
>>
>> After a few days, the merchant announced that he will buy monkeys at $200 each.
>>
>>
>> The lazy villagers also ran around to catch the remaining monkeys! They sold the remaining monkeys at $200 each.
>>
>>
>> The Merchant then announced that he will buy monkeys for $500 each!
>>
>>
>> The Villagers start to lose sleep!.....They caught six or seven monkeys, which was all that were left and got $500 each.
>>
>>
>> The Villagers were waiting anxiously for the next announcement.
>>
>>
>> Then the Merchant announced that he is going on holiday for a week, but when he returns, he will buy monkeys at $1000 each!
>>
>>
>> He also said that his employee will be in charge, and would take care of the monkeys he bought pending his return. The Merchant went on holiday!
>>
>>
>> The Villagers were frantic and very sad as there were no more monkeys left for them to sell it at $1000 each as was promised by the Merchant.
>>
>>
>> Then the Merchant’s Employee contacted them and told them that he would secretly sell them some monkeys at $700 each.
>>
>>
>> The news spread like wildfire. As the Merchant promised on his return that he would buy monkeys at $1000 each, they would achieve a $300 profit for each monkey.
>>
>>
>> The next day the Villagers queued up near the monkey cage.
>>
>>
>> The Employee sold all the monkeys at $700 each. The rich bought monkeys in large lots. The poor borrowed money from money lenders and bought the rest of the monkeys!
>>
>>
>> The Villagers took care of their monkeys & waited for the Merchant to return!
>>
>>
>> However nobody came! ..... They then ran to find the Employee ....
>>
>>
>> However he was nowhere to be found!
>>
>>
>> The Villagers then realized that they have been duped buying the useless stray monkeys at $700 each, and were now unable to sell them!
>>
>>
>> This Monkey Business is now known as Bitcoin!
>>
>>
>> It will make a lot of People bankrupt and very few People filthy rich in this kind of Monkey Business.
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[palehorse]

Am I missing something here? Does anyone remember the pyramid scheme from a good number of years ago? Nothing good came from that scheme except for the very few that got in it first and everyone after that took a nosedive. Are we thinking the same thing here? RB

>> How Crypto Currency works . . . an analogy in laymen terms.
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>> Not long ago a Merchant found a lot of monkeys that lived near a certain village.
..
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>> It will make a lot of People bankrupt and very few People filthy rich in this kind of Monkey Business.
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>

perfect analogy.
If it looks like a ponzi scheme, if it smells like a ponzi scheme, then maybe it is not a ponzi scheme! :facepalm:

.. and the scammers has a seat at a very high level in the hierarchy, they decide not us.
I feel sorry for those poor people selling their real/physical assets and converting it into virtual assets.

[ediwedi]

Anyone understanding german, there is a new upload by "Ernst Wolff". I just want to recommend to watch his latest conference from Vienna only a couple of days old. The video is 48 minutes long, and I think it is going to be a well invested 48 minutes for anyone watching it. It fits to this thread but it ties to many other aspects from the world happening this very moment. If you can somehow find a way to understand it even as a non german speaker, the things he is talking about are well explained. It is really a great and fairly compact "Aufklärung" (clarification) to all the things happening in the world at the moment. As a fellow avalonian, I would say it is really one of the highest watch recommendations I personally could give. Just one spoiler, there is no conspiracies and similar things in there. Thank you if you decide to watch :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtM4B3yIXXw&t=2404s

[norman]

What does Bitcoin look like "under the hood"

https://www.brighteon.com/7494b146-cdcc-4d42-b5bc-ece25ac2ae4b

[petra]

LOVE that monkey joke!

Reminds ME of Magic The Gathering Online when one dude would hoard all the Reya Dawnbringers and then control the price.

We will all be dead by the time all the bitcoin has been mined, and it's not like one person .. or entity .. can hoard all the bitcoins anyway.

I expect it'll continue the upward momentum because the rich people won't let it go down. Just like on Magic Online...

There's a new episode of Futurama about NFTs, and it's really funny. Bender ends up really liking his NFT and Fry says "of course you like it, you're a robot. But why would a human want that".

Maybe the AI will steal it all. I wonder what it would buy? *chuckles*

[petra]

Dang that robot check on the search is brutal! I almost didn't make it. Hard time remembering my password too, took me about 4 tries lol

Not sure who else cares about the stupid blockchain but I have a bit more to add!

It's estimated 17% of all the bitcoins are LOST. Everyone says it's forever but I'm not so sure. For humans maybe, but what about a super sophisticated AI that thinks faster than the speed of light and never sleeps?

It's the IDEA behind crypto which is so valuable. The monetary value of the coins seems to be more of an incentive to maintain the blockchain.

All we need to do is not be idiots and lose things in our own blockchain. 🤦

[palehorse]

Commenting on the post above by Petra, yes it could be all cracked open in due time with quantum technologies if these cryptocurrencies are not using advanced cryptographic hash functions. For example: Bitcoin rely heavily on SHA-256 hashing function (the current approach in the dev team is to double the hash size, anything else look like hell). Bitcoin used ECDSA (Elliptic Curve Digital Signature Algorithm), Shor's algorithm, can break ECDSA when executed with a quantum computer! So signatures can be forged and bitcoins can be spent on your behalf (not joking). Bitcoin was built-in with functions that had a date to expire, the Nakamoto behind it knew that and used the standard of the time, so not much to blame here.

Lamport one-time signatures use each key-pair to sign a single message (old school 1979) and seems to be the most efficient and simple.

The last round with NIST for approval of such algorithms (standardization), we have mostly "Lattice-based Cryptography", but also we "Code-based Cryptography" in the final round, things like BIKE (bit flipping key encapsulation) and the classic McEliece. A few organization(corpo) took a different approach and are considering using a hybrid cryptography form.

What I think might happen is all crypto using ECDSA to be replaced with lattice-based/hash-code-based algorithms but that would require probably a hard fork, assuming the community reached that consensus. The hybrid approach would be necessary to maintain compatibility with the current systems though.


On quantum computers in private institutions

Any bad actor this including large corporations could use it to break/crack ECDSA at this point, and that would allow them to steal bitcoins by using key derivation (deriving Priv K from Pub Key), if that happen the market would create a massive panic and sell-off, but probably nobody would be buying anything, prices would go to the bottom and no one would benefit from the attack, unless the attack happen in phases and not leaving any traces behind. There is a way for those who hold quantum computers.


CBDC as a successor

The central bank digital currencies are already a sofisticated version of bitcoin, so at some point regulator may phase out bitcoin by just placing a legislation that turns it illegal and threat whoever insist to use to be arrested and punished. Since bitcoin is a traceable coin, most people using it would just halt. anyway I am just babbling here about the possibilities, who really knows what will happen. I am as just curious as anyone else.


For whatever it worth, I have some Monero (XMR), and I am using it to buy stuffs sometimes, last purchase was a manual water pump (aka pitcher pump), so I am using it, so far so good, but I can't see how I would purchase something like a car or a piece of land, or anything that imply a tax payment, the local government here probably don't even know what Monero is haha


Conclusion

bitcoin can be phased out in the future by either the threat of quantum computers or by government. I would never invest in anything like that and since bitcoin IS NOT to be used as cash due to high fees, it is basically for investors, I don't see any point using it to buy a cup of coffee or any other thing, I tried in the past to live for 1 month using only bitcoin, the results were very bad, I end up paying a way more for the very same things I usually buy with cash, my landlord didn't know what bitcoin was, so I had to pay in cash, also gas station didn't accept any of that, I could go on and on :chuckle:

[petra]

Thank you so much for detailed reply palehorse! I would have liked to use the quote feature but it's impossible on phone, really need to get my pc working so happy (and surprised) to see the forum is still working and has not vanished!

What a rabbit hole bitcoin is, seriously, I've been up to my eyes in it for over a week now.

I've concluded Bitcoin is a TOY. Nothing more

I'll play with it a bit I suppose. But I sure would not invest very much, keeping it below 200

I see children going all in and it scares me! Warren buffet doesn't believe in it either. I'm currently reading about trying to assign it an intrinsic value and that's when it dawned on me. It's an effing TOY

Solana seems like it might be useful someday so I plopped my money into that one, not Bitcoin itself. The only good thing about bitcoin is I can buy Solana with it

Edit:: Forgot most important part omg. So pretty certain bitcoin is like a CULT now too

[petra]

Here is the article about intrinsic value if anyone is interested....

https://bravenewcoin.com/insights/best-tools-for-bitcoin-price-analysis

I've been trying to pinpoint where exactly in the article did I have that weird epiphany?

Now when I read it, it just sounds like ... absolute dog poo. Complete drivel, and kind of CULTISH sounding too. I sense a pattern! But maybe just imagining things.

[petra]

I may not understand the demand for these stupid coins but it's becoming pretty obvious that it's taking over! Listening to Michael Saylor talk about it gives me the creeps...

Charlie Munger said it best - "Bitcoin is stupid. And evil". God bless you Charlie

That being said, I'm profiting from it. Pretty good toy if you ask me!

[Richter]

Crypto: The World’s Greatest Scam (54:18)
An interesting point of view worth watching.
(imo anything digital is a potential scam or a ponzy scheme).
ORdWE_ffirg

[palehorse]

Crypto: The World’s Greatest Scam (54:18)
An interesting point of view worth watching.
(imo anything digital is a potential scam or a ponzy scheme).
ORdWE_ffirg



Hi Richter, I would say it is one of the best videos slapping bitcoin that I ever watched, thanks posting it! It should be available in all languages. I mean it explains very well what it really is, but not in technical terms, just popular terms which is what matter for all those people getting into it recently, they need to know the truth of it before getting into it.

~~~

I worked as a programmer for a company that was basically a ponzi scheme (these companies are formerly called Multi-Level Marketing), I helped developing their algorithm and database, and I can confirm first hand that the only people profiting from it was the owners and earlier adopters, and when the recruitment system fails which happen soon or later to all of them unless they invest big money in marketing but still failing in the end, the whole company goes under, then it can take a bit of time to people start realizing it, but when that happen the owners of that company are already out sipping their margaritas far way in some beautiful Caribbean beach.

Back then I didn't know well what a ponzi scheme was, but I realize that the only thing that would keep such company afloat was the non-stop recruitment system, it dies off if no one adopt it, it is basically insanity.

Mathematically speaking it works with the use of binary trees, or ternary trees, or quaternary trees, or even multi-way tree (k-ary tree), these are trees where each node can have up to k children, it will impact the size of the tree. Think about your file system in your OS, it uses k-ary tree.

Example of an octary tree (k = 8), where each node has up to 8 children.
At depth 1 you have max node as 9.
At depth 2 you have max node as 73.
..
At depth 5 you have max node as 37449.

Here "node" equals to number of people. One thing I noticed when working with it, that in practical terms, the max. of levels (depth) be at 10 or around it, because anything more than that require more recruitment and that is the hardest part in this business type, because each will have to recruit in order to reap their profit, if so many start failing in recruitment, it quickly show the true face of the scam and everything falls apart, it is a very fragile business type, scammers love it, because of its nature of unsustainable growth, they can reap profits quickly and vanish.

There is 1 technique used by these companies, when they reach their limit of growth, they split into a new tree and everything reset giving the perception of sustainability and balance, or do like many companies already doing: not recruit anymore, some companies has special line of products where they start new recruitment systems totally fresh, there is so many ways to work with MLM, it is basically everywhere, all those companies like Herbalife, Amway, etc.. they are all fully into it.

[petra]

Thanks for keeping up on this thread guys. Watched that exact video last night along with the cult one and the one about bed bath and beyond.

Things are really coming to a head, and I'm getting that doomy feeling again
I knew I had to come back here when I got banned from just about every Reddit crypto sub. That place is so toxic, still reading it tho. Far cry from project Avalon!

Please guys, if it's me that's being toxic, feel free to say so. Privately is better. I'm not the same person I used to be when I signed up..... that's for certain. I'm also not to be trusted, so don't trust me. Or else! *grin*

This feels like war. It really does. Don't believe me just spend 5 mins on Reddit crypto subs.

I genuinely thought I was getting so obsessed because this is the new invention I have been waiting my entire life for, just been blind to it until trump did his 180. That's the thing that got me paying attention

I'm still a hippie. I don't hate trump, or musk, or saylor. I'll listen to them all, but gotta say my favorite so far is Mr Charlie Munger

[Mike Gorman]

What we are missing here is the de-centralised nature of Bitcoin, there is a fellow named Max Keiser who is one of the arch deacons of Bitcoin and he has been promoting it and explaining it since 2009 when Satoshi first put the Blockchain into operation - we know that our 'fiat' currencies are not any more credible than Bitcoin, it is all based on symbolic representations of energy and surety - right? Well the Blockchain is a means to create surety, don't talk to me of quantum computing and how this can crack the Bitcoin puzzle, it cannot, quantum computing cannot do anything much at the minute, it has very little practical application, the nerds are all baying about 'potentials'. The Blockchain has an inbuilt level of difficulty that adjusts according to the computational energy applied to it: my point here is that Bitcoin is no more a ponzi scheme than the American dollar, and it is a hell of a lot more egalitarian, having no central owner as such.