Was SATURN our sun?

[Foxie Loxie]

In "Remembering the End of the World", David Talbot, before his Electric Universe days, presents an amazing series of events that seem to be drawn from cultures all over the world.....we might call it a collective memory.

He suggests that the planets in our solar system have not always been aligned as they are today; that they moved in line around our Sun, but in such a way that from Earth we would see Saturn with Venus & then Mars in front of Venus.

At some point Mars started moving away from Venus towards Earth, kind of a back & forth thing which, in the end, caused a disruption in the way the planets had been aligned & caused major destruction here on Earth.

My question is....what would have been the time frame of such a happening? If there is a collective memory of it, would that imply this happened within a generation? Has anyone else out there any input on this material? Many thanks!

[Cardillac]

@Foxie

if my read sources are correct (they've been very extensive on this subject but some may stand to correction) not only our planet but our entire solar system at some point in the past experienced a mega catyclism; before this catyclism we had a slightly different planetary alignment and Saturn is not a planet but a cooled brown dwarf star (back then without rings); back then Mars was between Saturn and the earth (Saturn back then was not behind Jupiter as it now is from our present perspective but in front of it) and before this catyclism was visible from the earth's N. hemisphere 24/7 in it's different phases-

hence Saturn is refered to as the "black sun"; and depending on what day/time of yr. one looked at Saturn it was either completely luminous, blocked in the middle by Mars (with only the outer corona showing) or (thanks to Mars) only a slight crescent on the lower left side (more about that in a minute);

the color black and a hexagram (6 sides) thanks to what looks like swirling winds on Saturn's N. hemisphere which always retain the shape of a hexagram have always been associated with Saturn;

now look at Islam: their holy Kabba is a black cube (6 sides) and worshippers start on the outside and walk in a ring around this object; it's disguised Saturn/black sun worship- the symbol of Islam is a lower left side crescent-

the subject of Saturn/the black sun is just so monumental/deep/complicated it just defies words-

I myself am trying to still learn learn about this and comprehend this very complicated but extremely profound (understatement) subject- I think it rules our lives much more than we realize-

be well Foxie and all readers-

Larry

[SLeeker]

Sorry i'm unsure of the timeframe but I know that Immanuel Velikovsky also did a lot of work on the Saturnian myth, his work is documented in "World's in Collision". You'll find a lot more info about the Thunderbolts Project and Electric Universe theory on YouTube and that may give you an idea of timeframe. That aside, their work also sheds a lot more light on the true origins of humanity, it loosely intertwines with the alien genetic manipulation theory, and it is based a great deal on ancient mythological records rather than official sanitised crap we are programmed with.

[Zanshin]

Hi Foxie,

I think you would find this site interesting -

http://saturndeathcult.com/

Troy D. McLachlan has expounded this theory for some years -

Saturn as an original, stationary brown dwarf pole star to Earth inside a purple plasma sheath, interacting with
the golden plasma sheath of Helios, our current sun with devastating effect on the alignment of the planets.

This in keeping with Velikovsky's electric universe model and as an explanation for perhaps birkland current type
plasma discharges described in texts as observed by the ancients.

Just keep clicking through the page links - I think the Saturn model is examined from about the third page in.

[Cardillac]

@SLeeker

am not sure Velikovsky's work was a "myth"; I tend to think it was more fact than fiction-

and yes, we've been programmed with sanitised crap- couldn't agree with you more-

Larry

[Hervé]

Well, a "sun" is a sun, i.e. it drives/controls its own planetary system while generating a bunch of radiations off of it.

Saturn ain't no sun! It's just a planet, although a big one.

A black sun, if it still may have its own planetary system, it has quit generating enough radiations off of it to "shine" any light and appears very dark while unable to reflect any light.

So, to understand the "Black Sun" of legends and myths, one has to comprehend what a binary star system is; where one of the twin star is a brown dwarf: Re: Nemesis, Tyche, Nibiru, Planet X, Brown Dwarf & Binary System: Myths & Realities (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?57644-Nemesis-Tyche-Nibiru-Planet-X-Brown-Dwarf-Binary-System-Myths-Realities&p=656632&viewfull=1#post656632)

This guy, Sheldon Moore explains it quite nicely in this video-interview:


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So, the last time the "black" sun of our binary star solar system wreaked havoc in said system was around 12,000 years ago. Add another 24,000 years to locate the second last time something similar happened... and one may find some correlations with the various destructions of Atlantis?


PS: Try it for size:


https://blog.chron.com/sciguy/files/2014/03/Planets_and_sun_size_comparison.jpg


http://www.mrhamel.com/uploads/1/0/8/8/108860265/684167839.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_DeVkd7Dag10/TT2iSvYtniI/AAAAAAAAF3c/K-n5YU08ZIg/world-stars-planets-earth-1_thumb.jpg?imgmax=800

[ghostrider]

I will tell you what I've read, long ago a sun went supernova and hurled a chunk of a planet twice the size of earth out into the universe... our forefathers left the dimension door open when passing from their universe into ours and this rouge destroyed planet now a comet , races through the cosmos causing catastrophes ... it grabbed our moon, and venus , and dragged them around for eons ... sometime around 6,000 years ago the moon was caught by earth's gravity, and venus took over Mars orbit and Mars orbits where Venus should have... the passing of the destoyer (comet) was catastrophic for earth causing the plagues of egypt, etc ... Saturn is a failed sun but, not our suns twin ...Our ancestors descendants of our original forefathers built the pyramids of egypt as shelter from the destoyer comet that now passes earh every 575.5 years... the ETs have redirected the destoyer comet so that it no longer threatens earth... the destoyer is reason for the careful study of the stars by our ancestors, and the reason for their coming here as they feel responsible for what their distant forefathers did allowing the destoyer comet to enter our universe... it is said the last passing was in 1682 ... this is just what I've read, as always it's up to each person what they choose to believe...

[Star Tsar]

It's just a planet, although a big one.

My concurrence with the above can be assumed, Gaseous with a "rocky core".
The question is just how solid is that "rocky core" if it's a moulten core it would be considered a gas giant if solid it would be considered a gas dwarf.
A gas giant is considered a failed star

[Foxie Loxie]

Thanks, everyone! :highfive:

I see I have a lot of digging to do!! :idea: The other question that ran through my mind...would that have been the point at which our Moon was placed where it is? From what I have learned here, seems it is an artificial satellite.

[Justplain]

To me, Saturn is a gas giant with some anomalies. I doubt it was a star of any sort since a dead brown dwarf would likely be much more massive and have other dead star symptoms. From conventional analysis, as follows, brown dwarfs should be much more massive than saturn or jupiter and emit radiation at non-visual wave lengths, as well as have the remnants of a star system around it. I dont think that this description fits our saturn:

'Brown dwarfs are substellar objects that occupy the mass range between the heaviest gas giant planets and the lightest stars, of approximately 13 to 75–80 Jupiter masses (MJ), or approximately 2.5×1028 kg to about 1.5×1029 kg. Below this range are the sub-brown dwarfs, and above it are the lightest red dwarfs (M9 V). Brown dwarfs may be fully convective, with no layers or chemical differentiation by depth.

'Unlike the stars in the main-sequence, brown dwarfs are not massive enough to sustain nuclear fusion of ordinary hydrogen (1H) to helium in their cores. They are, however, thought to fuse deuterium (2H) and to fuse lithium (7Li) if their mass is above a debated threshold of 13 MJ and 65 MJ, respectively. It is also debated whether brown dwarfs would be better defined by their formation processes rather than by their supposed nuclear fusion reactions.

'Stars are categorized by spectral class, with brown dwarfs designated as types M, L, T, and Y. Despite their name, brown dwarfs are of different colors. Many brown dwarfs would likely appear magenta to the human eye, or possibly orange/red. Brown dwarfs are not very luminous at visible wavelengths.

'Planets are known to orbit some brown dwarfs: 2M1207b, MOA-2007-BLG-192Lb, and 2MASS J044144b.

'At a distance of about 6.5 light years, the nearest known brown dwarf is Luhman 16, a binary system of brown dwarfs discovered in 2013. HR 2562 b is listed as the most-massive known exoplanet (as of December 2017) in NASA's exoplanet archive, despite having a mass (30±15 MJ) more than twice the 13-Jupiter-mass cutoff between planets and brown dwarfs.'

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_dwarf

[Tintin]

Foxie

Great thread - this has fascinated me for quite some time.

Another source I'd like to provide, and it is very interesting, is this, by Robert Morning-Sky: The Terra Papers.

What grabs me with this 'tale', if it hasn't been corrupted and the 'memory' has faithfully been maintained through the ages, is that it throws a fascinating slant on our origins. (A lot Sitchin-esque I grant you, but that this might just be a genuine untarnished corroboration? Who knows. Difficult to tell when he R M-S has himself admitted to making things up a bit, but not totally, with The Blue Papers in the 1970s.) It all starts to go wrong, for me though, with taking biblical names literally, in the second part. Anyone who has done their homework knows most, if not all, are fabricated/anthropomorphised representations of energies or celestial bodies and stories soaked in symbolism. So I think it's possibly mostly fiction with some genuine native memory within, possibly :sherlock:

The etymological component in the text may well be true as to the ancient sources of words now currently in use.

I'm not aware of this, 'The Terra Papers (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/esp_vida_alien_63.htm)', (condensed version) being a fraudulent piece of work necessarily - native peoples' stories, if most of this can claim to be genuine, seem to carry the ring of truth about them and have a tendency to survive more faithfully than other sources, sometimes. However, it may need to be read very objectively: there are, as always, mixed views on the individual littered around the web.

I'd be interested to know what your take on this may be. Here's an older Avalon thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?45226-The-Return-of-Robert-Morning-Sky&p=489362&viewfull=1#post489362

And, a link to archive.org/Wayback Machine on Hopi Cultural Theft and Misinterpretation that looks as if it has been issued by Hotevilla Wiwimkyam Assembly: http://web.archive.org/web/20040404070957/http://www.hopi.nsn.us/Pages/Culture/misrep.html

[Foxie Loxie]

Wow! So much to look into!! :sherlock: I think I had better rephrase something....according to David Talbot, what we now know as our Sun WAS shining behind Saturn, but because of the alignment of the planets, Saturn was continually visible here on Earth, so it must have been assumed it was our sun.

The one tablet from Mesopatamia shows what we assume was our sun, but if you take it to be Saturn, then it shows the moons of Saturn all around it. :confused:

Thanks for all the input!!

[Cidersomerset]

When Saturn was a Sun

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The Saturn theory offers a radically different approach to understanding the recent
history of the solar system. Briefly summarized, the theory posits that the neighboring
planets only recently settled into their current orbits, the Earth formerly being involved
in a unique planetary configuration of sorts together with Saturn, Venus, and Mars. As
the terrestrial sky watcher looked upwards, he saw a spectacular and awe-inspiring
apparition dominating the celestial landscape. At the heart of heaven the massive gas
giant Saturn appeared fixed atop the North polar axis, with Venus and Mars set within
its center like two concentric orbs. The theory holds that the origin of ancient myth and
religion—indeed the origin of the primary institutions of civilization itself—is inextricably
linked to the appearance and evolutionary history of this unique congregation of planets.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Icke - Saturn Isn't What You Think It Is Either

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Re: The Beauty & Majesty of SATURN.......Viewpoint: Saturn snapped as Earth smiled
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65361-The-Beauty-Majesty-of-SATURN.......Viewpoint-Saturn-snapped-as-Earth-smiled&p=756924

[SLeeker]

@SLeeker

am not sure Velikovsky's work was a "myth"; I tend to think it was more fact than fiction-

and yes, we've been programmed with sanitised crap- couldn't agree with you more-

Larry


Larry,

Part of our programming has been to make us think that a myth is not a fact eg we have sayings like "myths and hoaxes". Think about it, a hoax is something that is definitely a deception, a lie. However when we think about mythology is that a deliberate deception or an outright lie ? No. A myth just an ancient story/belief and therefore isn't necessarily a fiction. Clever psy-op isn't it mix up the words hoax and myth ? That's why I don't refer to Velikovsky's work as a hoax, in fact I believe mythological records are the ONLY factual records of history that mankind has left at it's disposal. For that reason I hold Velikovsky and the Thunderbolts guys in the greatest regard.

[SLeeker]

Another point FoxieLoxie, is that Saturn wasn't considered an actual Sun, it was referred to in that way because the solar config back in the day made it look so bright in the sky that it was referred to as a Sun but it wasn't meant to be a literal term.

[Hervé]

The "Electric Universe" may explain some of the phenomena which found their way in mythologies world wide:


[...]
There is an increase in the strength of vortex spins affecting anything having some "fluidity."

That's an increase in the difference of potential between something and something else which is usually translated in terms of electromagnetism.

Where could such an increase in potential be coming from...

... enters the "Electric Universe"!

... and our solar system postulated as a binary system (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?57644-Nemesis-Tyche-Nibiru-Planet-X-Brown-Dwarf-Binary-System-Myths-Realities&p=656650&viewfull=1#post656650). That's our sun and its postulated dwarf twin acting as the two poles of a charged capacitor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor).

When the two poles get closer, the potential difference increases due to the shortening of the distance... up to a maximum when at closest to each other (hopefully not a shorting of the circuit where the system is reset at equipotential (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipotential) for both poles with a big spark... you know, Zeus and his lightning bolts...).

That's where I am at, at the moment and it's subject to revision at any time new data show up :)

[SLeeker]

@Herve re: "The "Electric Universe" may explain some of the phenomena which found their way in mythologies world wide:"

My view is that is it the other way round, EU theory was formed as result of deciphering mythological records, this is the point I was making in my reply to @Larry. Those records are the last vestiges of Truth mankind has left in terms of our past and the workings of the Universe and even these records are being pillaged eg the invasion of Iraq and the theft of artefacts.

EU explains so much, I thoroughly recommend the EU/Thunderbolts info to those who haven't seen it. They hypothesise that electromagnetism is the predominant energy/force of the entire Universe, not gravity. It's no coincidence that Tesla's entire works were based in electromagnetism whereas Einstein barely touched on this, he was busy helping to build WMDs :-(

[Hervé]

Hi SLeeker,

You may be right, but the re-interpretation of mythologies along the lines of electrical phenomena needed some reference frame and it's not until plasma phenomena were observed with modern physics experiments that the correlation to ancient rock graffiti and mythological descriptions found a renewed interest as depictions of observed phenomena in those ancient times instead of the usual: "Oh, yeah, some pagan ritualistic figures and stories..." :)

[Foxie Loxie]

:clapping::clapping: Let's hear it for Plasma Phenomena!! :clap2::clap2:

[Hervé]

I think these threads and their videos should be good primers:

The Electric Universe by Wallace Thornhill and David Talbott (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?64025-The-Electric-Universe-by-Wallace-Thornhill-and-David-Talbott)

Wallace Thornhill: The Elegant Simplicity of the Electric Universe (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?93767-Wallace-Thornhill-The-Elegant-Simplicity-of-the-Electric-Universe)

[SLeeker]

Hi SLeeker,

You may be right, but the re-interpretation of mythologies along the lines of electrical phenomena needed some reference frame and it's not until plasma phenomena were observed with modern physics experiments that the correlation to ancient rock graffiti and mythological descriptions found a renewed interest as depictions of observed phenomena in those ancient times instead of the usual: "Oh, yeah, some pagan ritualistic figures and stories..." :)

Good point Herve, I completely forgot to mention that plasma is the medium through which the force is carried, I do believe plasma has been officially named the 4th state of matter. That in itself shatters the myth of space being an empty vacuum, plasma requires a gas medium. Another amazing hypothesis proposed by EU guys is that of the sun and all stars working via the electric model rather than the nuclear fusion model. There's so much being revealed through all of that research.

[Sunny-side-up]

Solar radiation - ScienceDaily
https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/solar_radiation.htm

Solar radiation is radiant energy emitted by the sun, particularly electromagnetic energy. About half of the radiation is in the visible short-wave part of the electromagnetic spectrum. The other half is mostly in the near-infrared part, with some in the ultraviolet part of the spectrum


Nothing about Atomic/Nuke radiation.
I fully believe Stars are electromagnetic/Plasma based .