The Gnostic View of God and Enlightenment - Invitation to discuss/debate

[Truthster013]

Hey everyone, I've really been dying to have a good philosophical discussion about the nature of our reality and what it means to be "enlightened" with someone who is well educated in matters of Christianity and/or metaphysical topics of light or energy. I'm not looking for an argument but would enjoy some spirited discussion that might help us both grow a little in understanding. If you would enjoy a lengthy debate or discussion, please read on.

To simplify my understanding of this topic, in the beginning there was energy. One of the laws of energy as we know it is that energy can never be created nor destroyed, it can merely change form. In that way "energy" is a lot like what many might call "God". However, in in my understanding "energy" actually existed BEFORE what most of us have come to know as "God". Just like electricity, energy itself simply exists but it has no morality. It is neither "good" nor "bad". It simply is.

Now, this energy (or Universal Energy as I call it) radiates in waves, vibrations, and frequencies and it is from those vibrations that consciousness (awareness) and all physical matter as we know it was formed and is being held together. Should things stop vibrating at each specific frequency everything as we know it would simply lose form and return to it's natural state (free energy). In that way EVERYTHING in our world is part of that same energy and therefore part of what you might call "God".

Now to get philosophical, I believe that universal energy formed what we call consciousness (or awareness). Long, long ago, energy began dividing itself into distinct personalities or "entities", each made up of exactly the same universal energy but developing it's own consciousness or awareness. This is hard to explain but in terms of human psychology, energy developed a sort of Dissociative Personality Disorder. In psychology this is the condition in which a single human being develops multiple or split personalities. We outsiders know that the person is actually ONE being or host but each distinct personality within that person or host can be totally unaware of the others and believe that it is the only one that exists or that is is distinct from the others. So energy split in to multiple "entities" each believing that they were distinct and unique but in reality they are all made of the exact same universal energy and are all part of the same collective consciousness or mind. This consciousness then began splitting itself into more and more personalities and interacting with itself as a way of understanding itself and creating "experiences" for itself.

Now we start to come to the concept of "God" as most know it. A lot of this comes from an old form of Christianity known as Gnosticism. Before our physical universe was created there were many "elohim" as the Bible might call it (or mighty ones). YHWH, as the Hebrews call him, was but one of of MANY elohim (a plural word referring to many entities). He was an entity which believed himself to be the only one, unaware of other entities outside of itself. This entity then decided that he wanted to create a physical universe and essentially entrap universal energy in the form of conciosness in a physical realm so it could experience being "worshiped" as the "one true God (or elohim).

Now this "god" (the one most believe is the god of our world) did actually create our physical universe thus most are correct. And this god then created a "paradise" to put entrapped spiritual (conscious) energy in. This "God" or entity created vessels and, as the Bible put it, breathed the breath of life into a vessel and we became a living being. This "Nephesh" or "soul" as the Bible call is it is our actual spiritual self. We were placed within a physical shell or vessel as a pen for our consciousness and then led to believe that all we were was this physical body. We were given a sort of selective amnesia and made to forget what we really are (spiritual energy trapped in a physical shell). This is the lot in life for most "un-enlightened" individuals (believing that you are Bob, your physical body, and that's all you are and that when you die Bob ceases to exist).

In the writings BEFORE the Bible the "good and bad" guy if you will were totally reversed. In the Sumerian accounts, one of the other entities who was appalled by what this entity we call god did to us, came and told one of the new physical creatures that she had been tricked. He told her that she was actually like God (i.e. made of the same exact energy) and that she had been deceived into believing otherwise. Symbolically he invited her to eat from the tree of knowledge of good in evil which he told her would open her eyes and she would be like her "god" knowing good and evil. The Bible records that what the serpent told her was actually true for "god" is recorded as saying "behold man has become like one of us knowing good and evil". In other words exactly what the serpent said would happen, happened. Eve realized after eating the fruit that something was different from what she was told. The Bible records that man became "ashamed" of their nakedness. Why? Was it because being naked was a sin? How can that be since God made them naked in the first place. I believe the answer is in the ancient Sumerian and even in the Bible itself. Man realized in that moment that they were naked like all the other beasts of the field. Their eyes were opened to the fact that to "god" they were no different than any other animal, to walk around naked rutting in the field like animals. This new consciousness made them ashamed of being treated like animals.

While there is MUCHHHHHH more, the idea is that man became "enlightened" a bit when they became conscious that they are made of the same stuff as "god". Today "spiritual enlightenment' is referred to as the discovery within ourselves that we are not this physical body. I am not Me. You are not You. You are MUCH more. You are a spiritual energy trapped in this vessel you call You. Those who become enlightened often describe coming to a total awareness that they are ONE with everything. They come to feel and understand that I am me, but I am also you, and I am also the ocean and the tree for ALL of us are made of the same exact universal energy. In fact, when I'm writing to you now I'm not actually writing to another entity but writing to myself for you ARE me. We are the same universal being trying to understand ourselves by interacting with fractured versions of ourselves in different forms.

Lastly, because I probably lost you already, some people may come to "escape" this physical world and trap when they truly come to remember and understand what they are. Others will simply die and then be put back into a new vessel to start again with a new form of amnesia. You might call this a form of reincarnation as they are repeating the same loop and trap over and over until they come to finally realize that their small life and personality are NOT what they really are. They ARE the universe. They are everything. They can escape the trap of consciousness.

[DNA]

I personally see societies, (and you can insert which ever you like) as competing manifestations of Gnostic god like entities.
I believe that Yaldaboath (the old testement god and the demiurge as described by the Essenes) was the god recognized by the Essenes because he was the god of the Jewish society and as such the entity observed by the Essenes in their pursuits for spiritual liberation. I believe gods with little g's insert themselves into earth societies, and as such accrue spiritual essence as a form of taxation.
This is why the Essenes formed a counter culture, one that they hoped would be lived without a little g god.
They were of course attacked and destroyed by a society with a demiurge component because of the threat they posed.

I've opened a thread based on these principles if interested.
Parasitic gods (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?31760-Parasitic-gods)

[Retief]

My current thoughts on this subject (and by no means am I claiming it to be the "truth") are that maybe nothing exists except consciousness. That consciousness is primordial. Where did consciousness come from? Beats me and after many years of struggling with this question I have come to accept that my current mentality is insufficient to understand an answer. Anyway, that would mean anything and everything we perceive as an external world is simply information and I would suggest under this model that "information" is a manifestation of consciousness itself. Everything is ultimately consciousness.

So, eventually, self-aware parts of consciousness came into being. This is the only thing I or anyone else can know for a fact; I am self-aware. However that came to be the fact remains.

That's kind of the bigger picture, smaller being maybe this is a consensus "reality" that we all chose to partake of. Back when I was in college my roommate and I were extremely monetarily challenged lol. So, our Friday night entertainment consisted of hopefully a six pack of beer and two player Monopoly. I remember making the analogy of Monopoly to reality at the time. There was nothing physically stopping me from taking a hotel and putting it on Boardwalk, except that would be against the rules and have ended the game because my roommate, of course, would not continue playing. I feel something similar is going on here. Yes, you can probably "move mountains" but that would defeat the purpose of you being here.

That begs the question of the purpose to being here. If any one knows please tell me lol. It might be enlightenment (whatever that may be), entertainment, ourselves (god) becoming aware of ourselves, I don't know.

Anyway, I love this topic and my aforementioned friend and I continue to discuss and argue about it to the present.

[Truthster013]

I personally see societies, (and you can insert which ever you like) as competing manifestations of Gnostic god like entities.....I believe gods with little g's insert themselves into earth societies, and as such accrue spiritual essence as a form of taxation[/B]

If I understand you correctly this is a little like the concept that "gods" gain power based on the more people who believe in them?

[DNA]

I personally see societies, (and you can insert which ever you like) as competing manifestations of Gnostic god like entities.....I believe gods with little g's insert themselves into earth societies, and as such accrue spiritual essence as a form of taxation[/B]

If I understand you correctly this is a little like the concept that "gods" gain power based on the more people who believe in them?

I'm of the opinion that belief in a god is not necessary. Only belief in the society one is a member of.

[Craig]

All great reading above, the one this that has me stuck for awhile now is the idea or concept that there is no time only a unified now and it whilst we are here in a 3D body is there a flow of time. That just has my mind in knots preventing me from onward learnings.

[gigha]

And as such there is nothing and everything

[onawah]

I had the same problem, but it helped me to think of it in this way:
I am an adult now, but I still remember my childhood very clearly,back as far as to when I was still an infant (not everyone can, but the basic premise still applies).
If I think only of my current life, then I am in 3D time, but if I expand my consciousness to the point where I remember myself back as far as I can, then my concept of time changes and becomes much more inclusive, and holographic if I include my memories of the world in those past times.
If I include past life recall into that, then my consciousness of time is expanded even further.
If I imagine applying that same process starting with myself and then on a more universal, holographic scale, then I can get some idea of what is meant by the idea of the "unified now".
I can only do that if I start with myself, but since we live in a holographic universe, that works.

All great reading above, the one this that has me stuck for awhile now is the idea or concept that there is no time only a unified now and it whilst we are here in a 3D body is there a flow of time. That just has my mind in knots preventing me from onward learnings.

[Red Skywalker]

To simplify my understanding of this topic, in the beginning there was energy. One of the laws of energy as we know it is that energy can never be created nor destroyed, it can merely change form. In that way "energy" is a lot like what many might call "God". However, in in my understanding "energy" actually existed BEFORE what most of us have come to know as "God". Just like electricity, energy itself simply exists but it has no morality. It is neither "good" nor "bad". It simply is.

This is a first quick reply. Later I will expand more on this.
The first problem is 'the source energy'. What is energy? At least it is connected to time because energy is what make a change from a current situation or status to another. Cause and effect. To get a better understanding I made a thought experiment by eliminating the idea of Time. When does Time stops? When there is no energy, or is in equilibrium ... What is the situation then? It's absolute cold and dark, but somehow from that situation has 'the source energy' to emerge.

We should look at absolute coldness first instead of looking at fire.

I will continue further on (if you like) this idea and create an explanation for a simple timeless time/space conscious light field from infinite absolute coldness.
It goes very deep; Finally, the Universe comes out as an illusion.

At the moment I have to go work, so stay tuned. Maybe I'll have to move or create this to another topic, like quantum field theory or alt physics.

[Eagle Eye]

I think that humanity need to ask the right questions and then the answer will come, even if it takes long long time to unfold.
Who created all this and who created us ? If we have created this and we have that so called superpower, how is possible than we are experiencing a so downgrade creation at this time, if we are truly so powerful we would be in a higher and greater realm and controlling things. So the best answer is we are here to learn, to understand, to evolve , to make choices and to take responsability of our actions, that means to enjoy the reward or suffer from those choices.
So if we are so unevolved, than who put us here ? Now we must return to some ancient scriptures, that most of us dissmiss it too fast (but thats another story).
So what ancient scriptures talk? There were messengers on different times that tried to warn us and guide us, that we must be aware that exist only one God that created us and we are here on a testing ground, to use our free will to acknowledge, that which already exists. To worship one God with great faith, while invisible.
So what are these ancient writings? If we follow the timeline of those messengers it leads to 3 main scriptures: Torah, ancient Bible and Quran. That mean these writing are from the same source but there are some contradiction between them (Perhaps it was understood in a wrong way or manipulated and we needed another perception of reality) . So if we have to start studing them we go for that which all 3 books have the same teaching and then we go further to reasoning. The most higher thing that contradits Bible and Quran is that in Quran it speaks about Jesus as a messenger (not son of God) and must not be worship but to follow his teaching. Because Jesus never said worship me, or that he is son of God ( but that is another disscussion).
So those writing speaks about one Creator, that created everything. That we have free will to choose our path and whatever we choose it will have its reward or consequence and also to be aware of our greatest enemy (Satan), but who is also a creation of God.
So what are religions? In my opinion they started as a representation of these ancient scriptures but have deformed so much on their path and have been transformed in a representation of power and control.

So what is the ultimate purpose ? (my opinion) To be aware of universal laws and to act according to them and to be aware of the creation and the one Creator that means to expand our consciousness in a humble way.

[greybeard]

Truthster013
I agree with your opening post.
Formless became consciousness--condensed into matter and became what appears to be diverse and solid.
Indian mystics have said We are One without a second-- Form formless both and neither--basically beyond human understanding.

Im inclined to trust what comes from mystics (Self realized) of our era rather than relying totally on past culture, that is not denying that they knew the Truth--perhaps just a different way of expressing this universal Truth.

Chris

[Curious77]

I'll just say here that it's amazing how the very concept of "alien visitation" goes unacknowledged
yet the concept of a "god" in the sky is spoken of as reality everywhere.

Weird.

[yelik]

I tend to agree that our physical existence could well be a manifestation of both our individual and collective consciousness including countless other life forms in the Universe.

We can only speculate because of our limited knowledge and understanding of science. Varying levels of knowledge will lead to different ideas which is good. The idea of God is, in my view, a convenient way to fill the gaps in knowledge and understanding.

From a scientific point of view everything appears to be form of energy that operates at many levels, from the Universal and Galactic level to the subatomic level. Energy also appears to intelligently interact with itself as in the case of the human brain, feelings and thoughts which are largely based on life experiences and memory passed through our DNA. Although many believe our soul enters the body after birth. Just what goes on at the subatomic level to create human life we do not know, just like, how exactly does electricity work? Can see why ET is interested in the earth experiment and human reproduction!!

If we look at an MRI scan of the brain it looks similar to the Universe itself, as above as below as they say.

I sort of take the view that the answer will lie in a better understanding of science and the human soul which I believe does not die when our physical body dies.

I also believe that a more advanced scientific understanding of this energy does exist but has been hidden by the Elites, secret societies and various religions because knowledge is still seen as power. How much knowledge have advanced aliens passed onto the Elite few?

The human mind is predisposed to believe in the idea that God created all things and people gain much comfort from it. I have no problem with having a god like mind because life, creation and compassion is eminently better than destruction and cold evil. The Universe is in balance and does not favour one or the other. Through DNA imperfections and life experiences some humans are righteous whereas others are psychopathic and evil and often walk all over righteous people as they make their way into positions of power.

I would definitely say the Universe is in a constant battle against spiritual wickedness in high places. The question is what is it that infects the human mind / soul with greed, ego and lust for power. Is it corrupted DNA, overactive survival instincts or something else more sinister not of this world.

True science and spirituality must act as one for us to gain the understanding we all seek.


Some bits are off topic but related I think.

[Mark]

All great reading above, the one this that has me stuck for awhile now is the idea or concept that there is no time only a unified now and it whilst we are here in a 3D body is there a flow of time. That just has my mind in knots preventing me from onward learnings.

p4Gotl9vRGs

[greybeard]

Trouble is that the mind will keep you busy, diverting you.
The longer you search the narrower the path gets till there is only One without a second--no subject no object just what is.
As pointed to by sages "I am the totality all of it"
Cant be found in books or in the sky.
Ive experienced Kundalini --spontaneous happening--so well aware of the movement of energy but in a waythats a distraction too.
sidhis occurred but the advice is to not get hooked up on them--dont get off at the energy station--the train has some distance to go

In fairness I get it intellectually (One without a second) but as yet its not my reality.
Ive read and heard countless Self Realized say the same thing.

I tend to point people to this thread by Tim--the horses mouth, so to speak
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43027-Enlightenment-A-direct-succinct-account-of-what-occurs...&p=456904&viewfull=1#post456904

Im not detracting from the first post--its all levels and what is true and appropriate on one level is not so on another.

Its all the play of consciouses--the cosmic dance or Idra's dream.

Chris

[Bo Atkinson]

Hey everyone, I've really been dying to have a good philosophical discussion about the nature of our reality and what it means to be "enlightened" with someone who is well educated in matters of Christianity and/or metaphysical topics of light or energy. I'm not looking for an argument but would enjoy some spirited discussion that might help us both grow a little in understanding. If you would enjoy a lengthy debate or discussion, please read on.

To simplify my understanding of this topic, in the beginning there was energy. One of the laws of energy as we know it is that energy can never be created nor destroyed, it can merely change form. In that way "energy" is a lot like what many might call "God". However, in in my understanding "energy" actually existed BEFORE what most of us have come to know as "God". Just like electricity, energy itself simply exists but it has no morality. It is neither "good" nor "bad". It simply is.

Christian-principles and “first-philosophical-principles”, of reality, sound very close to The Urantia Book, (which felt very much like that specific focus). I studied that decades ago. Before the internet existed, i wanted to know about the strong movements in our world but this exercise proved limiting.

More recently, i’m drawn to some Sanskrit inspirations. (I’m using this term to avoid other cultural associations.) Legends which even inspire modern conceptualizations, without limiting dependencies, but which also find some faded traces in pre history.

What came first in cosmology: energy or time or whatnot? Why trust time as existing first, to provide a first opportunity? (This feels a bit suspect.) Such questions have me searching pre antiquity, to wonder if there exist pre-energies or pre-time existences.

Admittedly, all i really have is personal experience which doesn’t shut off, while the rest of the world is off and on intermittently. Time dependency does seem unavoidable, except in dream visions, which offer other kinds of reality.

[Truthster013]

I'm sorry to all those posting on here wondering why I'm not responding when I said I wanted to have a discussion. No sooner had I posted this thread did I come down with the flu and I've been wiped out. I see a lot of really good thoughts on this I'd like to comment on but I feel like crud so can't stay up long enough to compose my thoughts. Sorry if it seems rude to post then not respond to anyone.

[Red Skywalker]

Truthster013, Be soon healthy and well again.
We'll hear from you, take your time.

[Truthster013]

My current thoughts on this subject...are that maybe nothing exists except consciousness. ...that would mean anything and everything we perceive as an external world is simply information

I've contemplated this as well. If I understand you correctly another way of saying this would be that our physical world is not really physical at all. we are not actually "someplace" on a physical planet experiencing a physical existence but rather this is all one giant theater of the mind (the collective consciousness) as if its the most realistic dream ever but in reality nothing in it is really happening. While I accept that may in fact be possible, it is a little depressing to think that all of this is for nothing and that anything we do here is pointless because it's just some universal dream.

[Truthster013]

Truthster013
I agree with your opening post.
Formless became consciousness--condensed into matter and became what appears to be diverse and solid.
Indian mystics have said We are One without a second-- Form formless both and neither--basically beyond human understanding.

You may not have meant any of what I'm about to share but your comment made another thought pop into my mind. The ancients believed that the stars and planets of the solar system also were conscious living beings. For me this goes along with your statement that consciousness condensed into matter. This consciousness may have split into distinct "entities" or physical representations. A planet may be as sentient as an insect. A crazy thought but that's basically what a lot of the ancient and shamanic cultures would say too.

[greybeard]

My current thoughts on this subject...are that maybe nothing exists except consciousness. ...that would mean anything and everything we perceive as an external world is simply information

I've contemplated this as well. If I understand you correctly another way of saying this would be that our physical world is not really physical at all. we are not actually "someplace" on a physical planet experiencing a physical existence but rather this is all one giant theater of the mind (the collective consciousness) as if its the most realistic dream ever but in reality nothing in it is really happening. While I accept that may in fact be possible, it is a little depressing to think that all of this is for nothing and that anything we do here is pointless because it's just some universal dream.

Its not depressing because you are the dreamer and within this dream is the opportunity to be enlightened, mystics say that this is your reason for being here.
So you are both at the Movies and in the movie.
Glad your back on line.

Chris

[WhiteLove]

Now, this energy (or Universal Energy as I call it) radiates in waves, vibrations, and frequencies and it is from those vibrations that consciousness (awareness) and all physical matter as we know it was formed and is being held together. Should things stop vibrating at each specific frequency everything as we know it would simply lose form and return to it's natural state (free energy). In that way EVERYTHING in our world is part of that same energy and therefore part of what you might call "God".

...

Lastly, because I probably lost you already, some people may come to "escape" this physical world and trap when they truly come to remember and understand what they are. Others will simply die and then be put back into a new vessel to start again with a new form of amnesia. You might call this a form of reincarnation as they are repeating the same loop and trap over and over until they come to finally realize that their small life and personality are NOT what they really are. They ARE the universe. They are everything. They can escape the trap of consciousness.

Truthster013, I think your line of thought is interesting, I will try to open it up further.

Imagine that truth is infinite in every way, so there are no limitations attached to its being. As humans we currently perceive creation from a human perspective. This perspective has limitations attached - between this perspective and the perspective of God I believe there is infinite amount realization layers, infinite amount of higher degrees of truth yet to be discovered. In the human perspective we currently have a very subjective limited idea about love, in the awaked state in the human form we have discovered that our subjective inner most great imagination of truth love and peace, is something that exists and something we are not excluded from - creation is like that. Not only do we come to that realization, we are at that point also through the power of love breaking free from what currently are some of the limitations that define time and space - we are in being in many profound ways way less limited because we are in being the corresponding level of love and truth that overcomes those limitations. Everything becomes in every way more whole.

When we are here on earth, our soul has experiences that in a great number of ways relate to love. These experiences make soul imprints and these imprints define who we actually are. In this current moment each one of us as spirits vibrate at a certain particular frequency, this frequency is in resonance with and is attached to the human body and its gravitational domain. This vibration is not alone as such in creation, it has a soul mate, which is precisely the same vibration but of opposite polarity. When you meet your soul mate, that person makes you whole and you make that person whole. Although this is in our current understanding the greatest thing we think we can experience as beings, out of this soul merger in trinity with God I believe a new higher being is born that is now the new vibration of that trinity - in resonance with a corresponding gravitational domain. So I find that the awakening process is to a great degree a process of learning about the fruits of love - the freedoms at greater and greater unlimitation, truth, peace and love, the process of learning about the infinite love of God. It becomes a process of forever discovering more and more love and more and more fruits of that love. Your love and what you always knew in heart was true, I believe God is on a very personal level going to have you meet a higher more true version of that - it will become known to you the level of love God loves you and the amount of access you have to that love.

[Flash]

My current thoughts on this subject...are that maybe nothing exists except consciousness. ...that would mean anything and everything we perceive as an external world is simply information

I've contemplated this as well. If I understand you correctly another way of saying this would be that our physical world is not really physical at all. we are not actually "someplace" on a physical planet experiencing a physical existence but rather this is all one giant theater of the mind (the collective consciousness) as if its the most realistic dream ever but in reality nothing in it is really happening. While I accept that may in fact be possible, it is a little depressing to think that all of this is for nothing and that anything we do here is pointless because it's just some universal dream.

Its not depressing because you are the dreamer and within this dream is the opportunity to be enlightened, mystics say that this is your reason for being here.
So you are both at the Movies and in the movie.
Glad your back on line.

Chris

you are saying Chris that we are playing a thrilling video game?? :clapping:

I remember telling my daughter that every time she eats junk food, being the god of her body, every single cell in it kneel down and pray "no, no, please God, spare us the catastrophe" because she is ruining them. She still remembers it.

I truly think that you are right.

I have been told that everything, absolutely everything in our personal world, i.e. this thread, my house, the pic of you Chris, everyhting is a construct of my own creation because I am learning how to become a creator through 3D creations. And that my mind (our minds) are all powerfull. If conscious, creations could be marvelous. It is through the unconsciousness that bad stuff is created. Even the cabal's game is part of it.

So, up to us...

[greybeard]

Yes Flash--we dream till we awaken--then its not personal any more yet compassion remains

Self is unaffected yet it all seems so real.

We are all actors in the play of life

There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. William Shakespeare
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/william_shakespeare

We are such stuff as dreams are made on; and our little life is rounded with a sleep. William Shakespeare
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/william_shakespeare

Chris

[Johan (Keyholder)]

About being "at the Movies" and being in the movie.

Can it be that we are ALL actors and actresses in the movie?
That some of the actors are also - at the same time - spectators at the movie(s)?
And that a few, very few, are - again at the same time - also the Director of the Movies?

It's where we all may be heading to, somewhere, somewhen... all becoming "directors of the Movies".

[greybeard]

anyway the question literally is "Who am I?"
The advice is discard all that is not Self( Sanskrit Neity neity) not this not this.

Ch

¤=[Post Update]=¤


About being "at the Movies" and being in the movie.

Can it be that we are ALL actors and actresses in the movie?
That some of the actors are also - at the same time - spectators at the movie(s)?
And that a few, very few, are - again at the same time - also the Director of the Movies?

It's where we all may be heading to, somewhere, somewhen... all becoming "directors of the Movies".

Yes on discovering this and realizing Self there no further reincarnation

[greybeard]

First the disclaimer--Im not saying im right about anything I post--all is "Maybe so"

There is nothing but consciousness--formless becomes form in various vibration from highest to lowest.
No level superior to another--just different.
The enlightened are at a higher vibration than a stone.

There are many interesting books on energy Mantak Chia has written a few.
The chakras and micro cosmic orbit worth investigating
http://www.healing-tao.co.uk/ht_microcosmic_orbit.htm

The subject of Gnostic View of God and Enlightenment is obviously very interesting to the intellect--it opens up investigation of similar and related matter.

However the Truth is literally the Self and the search tends to complicate and take away from the Truth of " I am That" the totality all of it without exception.
How can you find that which you are?
Truth is revealed by discarding all that is not Self.
Everything else is interesting but nothing to do with enlightenment--thats just my opinion.

Chris

[Foxie Loxie]

"I Am That I Am"!! :highfive:

[Red Skywalker]

"I Am That I Am"!! :highfive:

Alright, now what is that "I" or "ME" or "MYSELF" ?

I , that means the now reading and writing person in a human like body, am a technician. So I cannot agree with sayings like "there is only consciousness or a dreamer". To me there must be a mechanism that creates the "I", like the software in a computer. Where did the computer came from and who created it? Where did God, The Creator came from? Some unknown and impossible to understand energy or what?
I can understand the "I" when just listening to my breathing in a quite room and ask myself: who is listening?
After some reflection on this and finding a possible mechanism after just twenty years of study, meanly because of getting rid of all complexities and existing theories, I have come to the conclusion that the "I" is an equal thing for everybody and everything. There is just one "I". For example, telepathy is only talk and listen to ... another part of yourself, you are me and I am you. The "I" is the same and the difference between the two personal I's is just evolutionary. The "I", now as the meant consciousness, is omnipresent and timeless. It can be seen if you start to understand: it's empty space. Also the empty space in between you and your screen. It's the zeropoint in your hart and other chackra's. The "I" IS God. Ok, that gives some complications; I am God, or at least in a low evolutionary state, but already passed the mineral, vegetable, etc. states.

The origin of the "I" starts by detecting it's mirror image as a light point in absolute darkness. Here we have to look at the formed feed back loop of electric and magnetic forces in the form of a spherical toroid for further explanation.


TEH7Kbg5idk
rounded lines are magnetic, straight lines are electric.
Just a testing animation for my own research.

The formed "I" had to jump to it's mirror image by the under laying natural force and then saw another reflection of itself, now being a circle. The next step was jumping to some point on that circle. Then there are many, many, even billions steps into the future, possibly for ever to go. TIME has started, the Universe has started and to the "I", the Observer, a very small start of consciousness, but still very far from self-consciousness. This can be schematically drawn and the under laying natural force is absolute coldness and infinite emptiness which can never be filled with anything. That's why the Universe does not exists, only when Observed as mirror reflections and projections of the "I". The Absolute Coldness and Emptiness is still the case, but creates potential forces in the form of electrical charge. It's the source for electrical charge and needs itself to be equalized. This equalization goes into several steps, creating the so called 'Dimensions'. There is no scientist who can truly explain the origin of electrical charge. Here you have something, although it needs more explanation of course.

A more detailed explanation of my view for a separate topic is in the making. I may call the topic: "The mechanics of the Universe: One sudden Big Bang or infinite many small plops".
However, this can still take some more years due to lack of my time and lack of interest by the public.

Maybe this story gives some food for debate or triggers other insides.

(Forever Young and Eternal Alive, ME ... and YOU, of course. Both of us but only one "I" being old, very, very old, been already alive from the very beginning)

[greybeard]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion
Part of the challenge is language.

Nasargadatta in the book "I am That" speaking from "his" experience is clear that "I" created consciousness--the "one without a second" is prior to everything
Nasargadatts also said that what he is --is beyond definition and concept.

In Genesis "God" said "I am That I am"--so are you. This is beyond belief.

If it was only Nasargadatta that said this then I would not take his statement"I am That" on board.
However similar statements have been made by the Enlightened "Self realized "since word was recorded.
He was also fond of pointing out you are the Unborn--you were never born and that which was not born can not die--you existed before time and will exist after creation ceases.

As pointed to, Tim's thread has a lot of answers.

Chris

[Red Skywalker]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion
Part of the challenge is language.

Old wisdom has many physics in it, if the language can be translated.
I can see something of it, but translation is a very hard thing to do, as seen in my previous reply.

[waves]

The issues that really throw me about the nature of soul and consciousness are one, when I hear talk of far more technically advanced entities able to 'create souls', 'capture souls' and or clone bodies and 'insert souls'.

Other civilizations/entities creating souls? Lots of implications there.

And two, the possibility that our perspective from only the remnants in earth 'history' may be ridiculously limited. It's hard to see how anything can be atomically separate from other, but where do we stand among billions of unimaginably more technologically advanced civilizations of entities that have come and gone in eternity?

Unfortunately, I also am very concerned that so far no matter how small or big a picture I try to see, it seems the eat or be eaten paradigm is the inescapable structure no matter how advanced some civilizations get in their ability to create and manipulate matter, energy and consciousness.

They are still creating wars, conquests, slaves and not in the least concerned with love and/or how it relates to some soul aspect of their consciousness - as if they've learned love doesn't matter.

[Elpis]

I believe in the evolution of the soul and that we are here to learn all we can.

I do believe it to be a form of energy, a consciousness, with no beginning and no end…not starting with conception or ending at death. We are just a place for it to stay awhile.

[Red Skywalker]

I do believe it to be a form of energy, a consciousness, with no beginning and no end…not starting with conception or ending at death. We are just a place for it to stay awhile.

The "I" or a consciousness is in my view indeed a physical form of energy with electromagnetic properties, which are equal to Light. But the frequencies, or colors, have a much wider range then only what we can see. At the highest frequency it manifests as empty space. So empty space is light and consciousness and thus filled with energy, or is energy which can be manipulated and used. This is why an only mechanical view can be very destructive. The spiritual side must be understood as well.

Many civilizations still lack that view, but got the technics to build souls in the form of, lets call them still UFO's. A UFO is an artificial soul, or manipulated "I" energy of low frequency to which the occupants directly can connect. The same technics can be used to manipulate souls. Fortunately there are also higher evolved civilizations who do not have to use mechanical means anymore.

We have the same problem, we have free energy and 'UFO's', but in the hands of the wrong people who have no understanding of the conscious nature of the energy they are using.

[greybeard]

The issues that really throw me about the nature of soul and consciousness are one, when I hear talk of far more technically advanced entities able to 'create souls', 'capture souls' and or clone bodies and 'insert souls'.

Other civilizations/entities creating souls? Lots of implications there.

And two, the possibility that our perspective from only the remnants in earth 'history' may be ridiculously limited. It's hard to see how anything can be atomically separate from other, but where do we stand among billions of unimaginably more technologically advanced civilizations of entities that have come and gone in eternity?

Unfortunately, I also am very concerned that so far no matter how small or big a picture I try to see, it seems the eat or be eaten paradigm is the inescapable structure no matter how advanced some civilizations get in their ability to create and manipulate matter, energy and consciousness.

They are still creating wars, conquests, slaves and not in the least concerned with love and/or how it relates to some soul aspect of their consciousness - as if they've learned love doesn't matter.


Hi Waves
you either believe what comes from Mooji and quite a few other enlightened or you believe secondhand stories which have little personal proof--ie have you personally witness any thing that you speak of?
If you believe the Enlightened then that covers everything because it is the play of consciousness.
In other words everything that you speak of is possible within the play but while it seems very real it has no lasting reality.
It is only seems real at one level of consciousness.
A mirage can seem real, a dream very real but on awakening it is seen to be a dream.

The majority of NDE Near death experiences speak of the realisation that all is god.
Dr Eben Alexander worth looking at on U tube or reading his book

There is nothing to fear.
You are not the body or the mind--you are eternal--you can not be stolen--who is there to steal you?
No Other, no subject, no object--Who is there apart from You to do anything?

Christ quote "The Father and I are One." this applies to all of consciousness.

Gold can take many form but melted down it is gold
One consciousness--many forms.

One ancient definition is "Form and formless,both and neither"
In this world everything is energy at different vibrations--atoms in movement--there is nothing apart from this.
On leaving this world that energy reverts to formless--you cant see it touch it how could it be stolen or affected touched in anyway?
Im not claiming to be right.
The mind will offer up many thoughts on this.
Truth is not an idea or a belief--it is by its very nature eternal, that which is eternal is unchanging.

Chris

[Rich]

Its not depressing because you are the dreamer and within this dream is the opportunity to be enlightened,

A quote from ACIM that I enjoyed:

You are at home in God, dreaming of exile but perfectly capable of
awakening to reality. Is it your decision to do so? You recognize from your
own experience that what you see in dreams you think is real while you are
asleep. Yet the instant you waken you realize that everything that seemed to
happen in the dream did not happen at all. You do not think this strange,
even though all the laws of what you awaken to were violated while you
slept. Is it not possible that you merely shifted from one dream to another,
without really waking?

[Rich]

I , that means the now reading and writing person in a human like body,
Interesting statement, so you are saying there is a person inside a human body? Where in the body is that person located?
Is the person a product of the body? If you say it is, would that not be a claim that the body is producing the mind instead of it being a thought of the mind?

[Red Skywalker]

I , that means the now reading and writing person in a human like body, Interesting statement, so you are saying there is a person inside a human body?

No, there is not a person as a thing in the body, but there is a presence of the person, like the scientist using a robot on Mars and using virtual reality equipment. The scientist is looking through the camera's, turns the wheels, measures/feels temperature, etc. The scientist is not physical present but experiences like he is in the robot as the robot. The connection of the "I" with the human body is via resonances of electromagnetism from the quantum level to geometrical electro and magnetic fields around the body and also via sound and other mechanical vibrations. Many parts of the human body are sound resonance chambers. The human body receives and transmits on many vibrational levels for it's communication to "I".

I should have written:
"I, that means the part of "I" that is now a reading and writing person in a human like body,"


Where in the body is that person located?

Where is the man in the radio? Not in the radio itself. His voice comes from the receiving antenna of the radio via vibrational electromagnetism. The radio is only a detector and amplifier. The radio is not the man and by killing the radio, you can not kill the man.


Is the person a product of the body? If you say it is, would that not be a claim that the body is producing the mind instead of it being a thought of the mind?

The person is NOT a product of the body, the body is the product of the person, or better, the body has been tuned to the person that the "I" wants to use for experiencing this level of existence for it's development and reconnection with the "I" of ALL.

Now, why is there a distinction between the big "I" and the personal "i" of a human? Or, how can you distinct a droplet of water in an ocean of water? Take the droplet and let it spin in the ocean water:


37309

The droplet can grow and will finally become the ocean.

Here's another view, the nuclear power-plant instrument panel:


37310

Which meter needs urgent attention? ...

Finally, Dan Winter on DNA and vibration:


VPLGN0yIDTg

(Sure, also pseudo science / fake news / alu heads ... )

[Ernie Nemeth]

Essence begets Will. Will precedes Purpose.

Form and function are One. Form/function is the purpose of function/form.

This is the Law of the One - Intelligent Design.

or...

The little me believes. The Mighty I knows.

hiya Red, and Chris!

[greybeard]

Good to see you Ernie.
Have a great day


Here is an idea--smiling

Everything comes from awareness and drops back into awareness --there is only knowing

Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyVwfqpKxrM&t=265s

[Watching from Cyprus]

Thank you Truthster,

Very nice. When it is my body's/shell's time to shut down, I have decided to turn away from the light, and check out what there is in the other directions, as i have a feeling that Exodus is there ;-) Here a special thank you to Robert Morningsky and the Terra Papers.. as Robert made it clear that the light might be the amnesia trap.

Love you all
DROP FLUORIDE, SUGAR AND ASPARTAME AND YOU WILL BE AMAZED WHAT YOU WILL SEE (AND ANNOYED WITH HUMAN IDIOCY). LAST CHANCE BROTHERS AND SISTERS TO SAVE YOUR SOUL.
Peter

[greybeard]

There is no choice in eternity--Rupert Spira
The ego hates videos like this.
Eternity is not time based.

Anyway it can take a "while" to get the head round these Non-duality "Truths"
Some are ready, some are not, but all are equal.
We live according to our concepts and thats just fine.
It is as it is

The subject of this thread is in part about enlightenment hence my interest.
The Christian word, perhaps, is "Illumination"
Every religion at its core points to "enlightenment"

Ch



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6maAy9ZwtJc&t=524s

[Rich]

That's eloquently put, Red. So where do you think the person that is using the human body is located at?

[greybeard]

I have to admit that accepting that there is no individual person is a big one.
Frankly it has taken years firstly picking up little clues here and there.
First accepting that there is something that continues after the death of the body.
Then that some thing existed before it inhabited the body
Nasagadatta a big influence in his book "I am That" he spoke of the The Unborn--ie you are eternal. You weren't born you dont die--no beginning no end.
Talks about Self Realization by enlightened.

So years down the line I accept what is said by so many.

Ch

[Red Skywalker]

That's eloquently put, Red. So where do you think the person that is using the human body is located at?

It is, or I am extern of the body as an alternating electric and magnetic field around the body. It's revered to as 'lightbody' or 'Merkaba' and has several layers of different base frequencies corresponding with different energy levels as different geometrical shapes. It's connected to the Earth, the Sun, the Galaxy and surrounding galaxies, etc. by their respective electric and magnetic fields. So in a way I am everywere, but on a quantum level, the "I" is just one field and directly everywere, omnipresent. That is the state the partial "I" is evolving to, but also still is coming from.

Our body is a very complex multiple frequency converter, working both ways up and down as a helping and evolution tool for the lightbody, the partial "I", to get more integrated and closer to the 'original' "I" it was, which has two states at the same time: All and Nothing, "to Be or Not to Be" and the partial "I" has to evolve from Nothing to All to become again the "I" in the two states at the same time. That is from one end of the frequency spectrum of the "I" to the other end, as the "I" is multi-spectral. This can be imagined with a torus within a torus:


37324

37326

close-up of center, The Cube of Metatron

The body is dependent on the vibrations of the lightbody and was tuned to the lightbody. But when the body fails, the lightbody continues to exists without the lower frequencies created from high frequencies by the body. Then it experiences a new Universe but there are energetic connections with ours. Due to the lack of lower frequencies, it's almost impossible to interact with your former world: that's where a new body as a converter is needed, if you need to have more lessons/drama's/improvements/relationships/etc. on this planet.

Difficult to answer the question without giving much more context and this is not my topic.

Some more can be found here, although not complete: http://aetherforce.com/the-aether-the-torus-and-the-wave-structure-of-matter/

[greybeard]

Yes Red Skywalker it is as you say ---as an explanation--an explanation is not what you truly are.
Its all levels of consciousness.
So you are omni present at that level and a lot more besides.
To confuse the issue --there are also different levels of Enlightenment

The late Dr David Hawkins constructed an energy map of consciousness

On that map the highest energy possible to be "contained" within the human frame was Christ and the Buddha--1000
The scale was logarithmic
I is both within and without the human frame.

Kundalini energy was seen to completely change the nervous system in order to hold the level of enlightenment without the "wires" burning out.
If something is of benefit at the level of this world then fine.
I qualified to be a bi-energy practitioner and a Reiki Master --both modalities are effective.

Whatever, the highest Truth is "Only God Is" The One without a second.

Science is catching up with what the mystics discovered in meditation thousands of years ago.

Chris

[Red Skywalker]

Science is catching up with what the mystics discovered in meditation thousands of years ago.

Imo science is not catching up, certainly not mainstream science. The ideas I have talked about are still seen as pseudo-science and are not looked at as ways to try to get new improved theories. Also the separation between (mainstream) science and spirituality seems to get bigger in stead of merging together as one base knowledge.

That said, I give some last information to end my replies. I have still a lot to show about the mechanics of the natural, virtual reality computer we are playing in and how the basics for free energy and star travel work. But to use such technologies requires the identical spiritual knowledge. The only difference is language but both languages must be known in order to prevent the situation as is now on Earth. It seems that a small group has the technology without the right understanding, but is by these technologies immense powerful and dangerous. This is playing out now as more and more information is slowly coming out. Hopefully we see some positive progress within our live time.

One man I learned a lot from was Izhak Bentov with his book: 'Stalking the Wild Pendulum', 1977. He was the first I saw merging physics to spirituality as a science of the mind. The book is not published anymore, maybe there are second hands on the market. (Yes, I have it + a Dutch edition called: 'Fysica van de Metafysica'. Not for sale) Itzhak died at a plane crash on O'Hare Airport. His wife however made a youtube video about his work:


KMbeK_6ATxQ

With this, I hope enough food for thought to have given and keep searching and learning. Any path will still eventually lead to the Source.

[greybeard]

True that Science main stream has a long way to go.

My memory is such that I cant quote sources but there is a lot in Hawkins book "Power verses Force"
I seem to remember these things probably from Quantum Physics material

Time is non existent
There is no empty space =its like a spiders web from the center of the universe, everything is joined--a bit like the structure of the brain.
The structure of atoms was noted thousands of years ago.
Thought comes after the action not before it--German psychologists as noted by Stephen Wolinsky Ph.D

This is his web site for those interested in the teaching of Nasagadatta Maharaj

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzryZyOW34fKNTYXRSbWNbw

Introduction to Quantum Psychology


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVKpGd2-oTU&t=160s

[Red Skywalker]

True that Science main stream has a long way to go

"Time is non existent
There is no empty space =its like a spiders web from the center of the universe, everything is joined--a bit like the structure of the brain."


These two lines are exactly the same in my pseudo-science ideas, note my previous droplet in the ocean. Also the 'substance' mentioned in the video is in my ideas called 'Frozen Space' which is solid first, but still contains forces in energy transition that manifests as a superfluid energy form, space with consciousness, within the solid. How this happens has to do with the dynamics of the energy transitions, on which I do not go deeper further. All energy wants to be in balance, but due to infinity there is always more negative energy, which I call 'Absorption Energy' due to absolute coldness. Like pulling apart a pressed sponge, something (in this example air) has to get in. It's not the fire that melts the ice cube as a pushing energy, it's the ice cube absorbing or 'sucking' in the energy of the fire. That is why I call it a negative polarized energy. Especially when the ice cube is infinite big and absolute cold. What can be sucked? Only what is available, the negative energy itself and that is where the feedback loops (a torus) for consciousness starts. It's the turning inside out of negative absorption energy to positive energy, light. So everything is light, electromagnetism. In nature a true vacuum cannot exist as a form, only as an infinite small, no size point. A zero point attractor, or black hole. Which has neighbors doing the same absorption, resulting in the 'best sphere packing" structure, also known as sacred geometry.
So, to balance an infinite amount of energy is not between two forms, but can only be in layers (dimensions for us) of many transforming different shapes and sizes.

I want to add one more statement that is also crucial because the second layer of energy is conscious, so: "everything has some sort of consciousness and everything is thus a form of live. There is no 'dead' matter."
But there is a tendency to evolute to self-consciousness which is not present from the 'start'. The first layer is the solid, frozen space which has no consciousness; it's too empty and thus cold. But is infinite and has thus the potential (negative polarized) energy for everything. And that has happened, starting with many connected feedback loops, or small plops, instead of one big bang. Goodbye Stephen H. and all other big bang theorists, I have to go.

I can go on and on :ROFL:
Sorry if I go too far.

(I may use these publicly made expressions in other ways, so beware of my copyrights. I have taken measures already in 2013)

[greybeard]

Red Skywalker
While I cant claim the scientific background to enable me to understand all of your post--I do appreciate that you know your subject.

I have seen Nassim Haramien's video on Sacred Geometry and while some will ridicule his work--its seems to me a layman to be rational.
So you dont go too far

Im well aware that guests read these threads and what you have posted may well be of great interest to many.

The original poster could contribute to his thread by posting on The Gnostic View of God--all is of value.

Chris

[Red Skywalker]

I was already working with these ideas before I knew Nassim Haramien. I find it fascinating how the almost same ideas pop up around the same time. Maybe it's because we are just slowly starting to remember the sciences of our past.

[greybeard]

I was already working with these ideas before I knew Nassim Haramien. I find it fascinating how the almost same ideas pop up around the same time. Maybe it's because we are just slowly starting to remember the sciences of our past.

Yes --look at the number of people on the verge of inventing TV and many other things that we now take for granted.
I think its down to the evolution of restricted consciousness.
There is the saying that Consciousness is evolving to know itself.

When I first got interested in spirituality about 40 years ago there were few books for the western reader.
Autobiography of a Yoga being one of the first I read---now there are many.
Five Million viewers were tuning into Ophra to listen to Eckhart Tolle discussing his book. "A New Earth" chapter by chapter.

He made the New York no 1 best seller with the "Power of Now"

So that kind of shows an evolution of consciousness. (Public demand)

I could go on --laughing.

Chris

Ps
I agree that a lot was known in the past that has been lost.
Atlantis.
The building of the Pyramids was one of Hassim's pet subjects.
There is no way that the Egyptian's of that time had the knowledge necessary to build to such a precise degree.
Science has proved that there has been mass extinctions of mankind in the past.

Who knows what may be coming from the advanced civilizations of the past.

[Red Skywalker]

In stead of explaining more of my ideas on this thread, here a link from 2011 of a thread I started:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?31614-Asking-assistance-for-metaphysical-sacred-geometry-ideas&p=322141#post322141

Most of it is still valid, but now there are of course more progressed insights. Once I digged in, I could not stop anymore. It has it's down sights too. It's hard to see how many nonsense there still is and without mainstream progression. I feel like a stranded of planet visitor. I know I am not the only one with such feelings.

So, check the link if you are interested, and once you get the idea of what the basics are, it should be easy to make and adjust your own picture in your own language.

The beginning of the Universe must be simple because at the beginning there was no information. So, the first information can't be complex.

@ Truthster013
I hope my contributions will add something for you and the others.
Thx for bringing up the subject.




(Just made a small donation to Bill for keeping up the forum, and so my publications. I have also to pay CCPROOF (https://www.ccproof.nl/en/) to hold my ideas, so it's logic to pay Bill too.)