The nature of thought

[Vernaianawa]

This, these words have always created much thought for me, Oh the pun, >

***

What you try to do is you try to push out some things and keep the others. That is the mistake. You say this is good, that is evil. That is the problem. You say this is sacred, this is profane. That is the problem. You have to accept all that is there. You accept the most beautiful thoughts and you have to accept the most terrible thoughts because they are all happening inside of you. That is the truth.

Thoughts are millions of years old. They are not your thoughts. They are just flowing through you. That's all. The structure of thoughts does not change. Only the object has changed. Thought has remained the same. Thought is essentially measurement. It is comparison. Ancient man was measure and comparing. You also do. He was comparing how many cows he had, how much the neighbor had. You are comparing how many cars you have, how many the neighbor has.

Comparing is thought. It is measurement. All thought is measurement. It is comparison. It does not change. They are not your thoughts. They are there. So your thoughts are not your thoughts.

Your mind. What is the mind? The mind is full of thoughts and the mind is a human mind. It's very, very ancient. The same structure: fear, jealously, anger, hatred, worry about the past, worrying about the future. It has not changed at all. Only the objects have change. Desire is there. You had desire for a spear. You have desire for money. That's all. You had fear of the saber-toothed tiger. You have fear of the share market. That's all. The structure is the same and the mind is very, very ancient. So your mind is not your mind. It's very, very ancient. It is just there. You assume it is yours. So your mind is not your mind.

Your body. Your body is not your body. You did not design your body. It was designed millions of years ago. The same structure: the nose is here, the ear is here, breathe in oxygen, give out carbon dioxide. It's been the same for millions of years. You did not design it. You did not create it. You did not conceive it. You did nothing in fact. How come it is your body? It's not your body at all. You have to think about it. Contemplate on that.

Then the self, the sense of separation. That's again an illusion. It depends upon how fast the senses are coordinating - slightly slow down, the sense of separation is gone. There is only oneness. You don't exist as an independent entity at all. There is no separate existence. Not at all. Just another big illusion. Your self is only a concept.

Now how to understand this? A very simple example would help you understand this. Mainly the dress that you're wearing, you did not design the dress. You did not tailor that dress. You did not weave the textile in the textile mill. You did not grow the cotton or create the polyester that has gone into the dress. In no way are you involved with the dress. How do you say it is your dress? It's not at all your dress.

Similarly your thoughts are not your thoughts. Your mind is not your mind. Your body is not your body. The self is only a concept. The moment you become awakened you're out of all this and you see your thoughts automatically happening. You see your speech automatically happening and you see your actions. You may think you're moving your arm by your control. It's not so. You can watch the brain in real time. Moments before you decide to move your hand the brain had decided to move the hand. It's only the illusion that you have decided to move your hand.

Now the problem is you're identifying yourself with your thoughts, with your mind, with your body and the so-called self. This we call anatma. Anatma in Sanskrit which means false identification. And why is there this false identification? Because of what we call in Sanskrit pragnaparada or failure of intelligence which is what we try to awaken in level 2. Because of failure of intelligence you're having wrong identification which leads to a sense of separation. The sense of separation is the cause of all problems. All problems inside yourself are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems with the family are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in your country are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in the world arise because of this sense of separation.

If you remove the sense of separation then there are no problems in the individual, no problems in the family, no problems in the nation, no problems in the world. That is the root cause of all problems. To be free of the self is the only revolution.

The only solution to all our problems is to ultimately awaken where we lose this sense of separation. That is the real problem

***

Never did find the origin of this.





Edit from Bill: This is the source:


https://ashs.at/level3/transcript/2010/transcript_2010_02_14_moscow.pdf

[Bluegreen]

You're such a punster :biggrin:
Did I just say that?

[Vernaianawa]

The words or teaching comes from AmmaBhagavan or one of their teachers/dasas, who wrote them down and passed them on, I do not know, that is better clarity than in first post.

[Bill Ryan]

I added the source to the first post.


https://ashs.at/level3/transcript/2010/transcript_2010_02_14_moscow.pdf

Helpful hint: finding the source of a document is usually quite easy. Select a unique-looking phrase (maybe half a sentence, containing some unusual word combinations), and then search for it by putting the phrase in inverted commas (quotation marks). Google will then find anything which contains that entire phrase.

[onevoice]

Similarly your thoughts are not your thoughts. Your mind is not your mind. Your body is not your body. The self is only a concept. The moment you become awakened you're out of all this and you see your thoughts automatically happening. You see your speech automatically happening and you see your actions. You may think you're moving your arm by your control. It's not so. You can watch the brain in real time. Moments before you decide to move your hand the brain had decided to move the hand. It's only the illusion that you have decided to move your hand.

There are some scientific research that shows the brain has already sent the signal for the movement before one is conscious of the movement:
http://exploringthemind.com/the-mind/brain-scans-can-reveal-your-decisions-7-seconds-before-you-decide



Brain Scans Can Reveal Your Decisions 7 Seconds Before You “Decide”

In a kind of spooky experiment, scientists at the Max Planck Institute for Human Cognitive and Brain Sciences reveal that our decisions are made seconds before we become aware of them.

In the study, participants could freely decide if they wanted to press a button with their right or left hand.

The only condition was that they had to remember when they made the decision to either use their right hand or left hand.

Using fMRI, researchers would scan the brains of the participants while all of this was going on in order to find out if they could in fact predict which hand the participants would use BEFORE they were consciously aware of the decision.

The Results

By monitoring the micro patterns of activity in the frontopolar cortex, the researchers could predict which hand the participant would choose 7 SECONDS before the participant was aware of the decision.

“Your decisions are strongly prepared by brain activity. By the time consciousness kicks in, most of the work has already been done,” said study co-author John-Dylan Haynes, a Max Planck Institute neuroscientist.

I don’t even know where to begin here! I know from the hypnosis research that the unconscious pretty much controls everything and that consciousness is extremely limited.

But, I do find it a bit disconcerting that decisions are made by unconscious me 7 seconds before conscious me…

I am not the only one.

This article also explains the reflex actions of our muscles:
http://www.positivehealth.com/article/chiropractic/reflex-reactions-our-body-s-rapid-defence-mechanism

[sunwings]

Later in the same pdf it says....

"You are in prison, the prison called mind. You’re all prisoners within the prison
called mind and you do not even know you are in a prison because you’re very
intelligent, you’ve nicely organized all the furniture inside the prison. It is so
nicely organized you don’t even feel bad being in the prison, except now and
then. All the furniture is arranged. What is the furniture? Your attachment to
your wife, husband or children, your attachment to money, your attachment to
property, your attachment to name and shame, your attachment to
excitement, this and that."

I think many here are trying to dig a tunnel or smash down the door to now get out of the mind prison. :ballchain:

Everyday I wake up inside the prison. Thanks for posting this.

Most of all, the mind takes up our most precious resource. TIME.


The trouble is, you think you have time.

Buddha

[The Freedom Train]

Thank you so much for posting this! I had a realization the other day regarding thought, and how we form beliefs is a topic I have been pondering lately. I plan on contributing more concretely to this thread in the future - perhaps Saturday, if I have some time! Thanks again for starting this thread :)

[wnlight]

The topic of this thread is of very great interest to me. What has been posted in this thread is true. Spirit has surely guided me here. I have already started down the path to my freedom from the mind. However, the Deeksha oneness blessing seems to me to be a fake. Beware! Why are a small number of people profiting ($400) from giving these blessings? How does one know their state of mind? (Pun) I feel that accepting money for a "blessing" taints the blessing. My dowsing activity tells me to stay away from these "Deeksters". I will continue my progress on my own, teaching myself. I have a strong connection to my higher self (my self) and to Spirit to guide my way.

I will be happy to send blessings to anyone who agrees to (1) accept it, and (2) return it to me, and (3) pass it on to others. Just ask. No charge.

[Vernaianawa]

Much thanks Bill, appreciated, >


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG3mgNouS5g




I added the source to the first post.


https://ashs.at/level3/transcript/2010/transcript_2010_02_14_moscow.pdf

Helpful hint: finding the source of a document is usually quite easy. Select a unique-looking phrase (maybe half a sentence, containing some unusual word combinations), and then search for it by putting the phrase in inverted commas (quotation marks). Google will then find anything which contains that entire phrase.

[Vernaianawa]

I do not charge and know no one who does, most deeksha being done at distance nowadays, not much hands on but many meditation circles outside of India may do hands on or above head deeksha's ( free usually ? ) still, mostly chakra meditations, fire breathing etc. Eye deeksha is free online and I enjoy them every so often, Sacred chambers is mostly or usually totally free ( we have two in CHCH, very luckey ), Going to the Oneness university in India is costly, to many it is very costly, is a choice imo.




The topic of this thread is of very great interest to me. What has been posted in this thread is true. Spirit has surely guided me here. I have already started down the path to my freedom from the mind. However, the Deeksha oneness blessing seems to me to be a fake. Beware! Why are a small number of people profiting ($400) from giving these blessings? How does one know their state of mind? (Pun) I feel that accepting money for a "blessing" taints the blessing. My dowsing activity tells me to stay away from these "Deeksters". I will continue my progress on my own, teaching myself. I have a strong connection to my higher self (my self) and to Spirit to guide my way.

I will be happy to send blessings to anyone who agrees to (1) accept it, and (2) return it to me, and (3) pass it on to others. Just ask. No charge.

[onevoice]

There is a scientific study of consciousness called Global Consciousness Project, where computers are setup at many locations around the world to track random number generators. Over time a scatter line graph of the outputs of these random number generators should be fairly uniform if no outside force was influencing the random number generators.

However, repeated measurements of many global significant events indicate that these significant global events where great number of people are aware such as mass meditation events definitely skewed the results of these random number generations.


The jagged red line shows the accumulating excess of the empirically normalized Z-scores relative to expectation for the complete dataset of rigorously defined events. The overall result is highly significant. The odds against chance are more than a trillion to one.
https://baggage-wm.livelink.io/wm.albums/gallery.photos3.walmart.com/galleries-da11d03876e662a8449b7d797a51516a-11912977895.jpg
The bottom line: Expectation is the horizontal dashed line. Formal result is the jagged red line, which plots the cumulative deviation of trial Z-scores from expectation. Smooth curves show envelopes for probability against chance.

The Global Consciousness Project can be explored at:
http://www.global-mind.org/

[Vernaianawa]

Cheers, interesting, blows me mind thinking of Jose Arguelles organising the first world wide mass meditation in 1987, lol and the then pope demonising the event lol. We have come a long way.

[O Donna]

Later in the same pdf it says....

"You are in prison, the prison called mind. You’re all prisoners within the prison
called mind and you do not even know you are in a prison because you’re very
intelligent, you’ve nicely organized all the furniture inside the prison. It is so
nicely organized you don’t even feel bad being in the prison, except now and
then. All the furniture is arranged. What is the furniture? Your attachment to
your wife, husband or children, your attachment to money, your attachment to
property, your attachment to name and shame, your attachment to
excitement, this and that."

I think many here are trying to dig a tunnel or smash down the door to now get out of the mind prison. :ballchain:

Everyday I wake up inside the prison. Thanks for posting this.

Most of all, the mind takes up our most precious resource. TIME.


The trouble is, you think you have time.

Buddha

Well said, sunwings.

I've tried fighting fire with fire with either of two things happening, either I get burned or a party breaks out in the caboose.



“Since everything is but an illusion,
Perfect in being what it is,
Having nothing to do with good or bad,
Acceptance or rejection,
One might as well burst out laughing!”

― Longchen Rabjam

[wnlight]

Vernaianawa ,
Thank you for not charging for Oneness Deeksha 'blessings'. Some do. As this web site does: http://www.awakening-healing.com/Healing/deeksha.htm

EXCERPT HERE:
"Oneness Deeksha Blessing and a short Tune-Up Session.... $ 25 Suggested Donation, about 15 minutes,
Daily Oneness Deeksha Blessing and mini Divine Tune-Up Sessions every day for one month. $400 A whole month of daily Awakening and Healing. Very Transformative and healing.

Keth Luke Blessing JanThe Oneness Blessing is designed to awaken humanity to causeless
joy and causeless love through the transfer of Divine Grace from the
Divine Presence. The Blessing itself initiates a neurobiological shift
in the brain that, when complete, enables the mind chatter to stop and
the heart to over flow with bliss. It helps us release pain and
suffering, and opens us up to the realization that we are love. A natural
clarity of perception occurs with accompanying spontaneous feelings
of inner calmness, joy, and connection to the Oneness in everything.

The Oneness Blessing comes from the Oneness University in India,
through Sri Amma and Sri Bhagavan, and is initiated in a training
which fires the engine of awakening. There is no religion or belief system
required. The Blessing works with all forms of spirituality by
connecting with our own personal form of the Divine."

[dynamo]

Excellent reminder, thank you Vernaianawa!
Something similar in thought here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?101129-A-Short-Story-About-Life-Death-And-The-Universe.--Food-for-thought...-

[Vernaianawa]

Had a look, appears oldish, as many children give and receive blessing plus as far as I am aware, pregnant people get blessings both hands on and distance right up till baby winking.



Vernaianawa ,


Thank you for not charging for Oneness Deeksha 'blessings'. Some do. As this web site does: http://www.awakening-healing.com/Healing/deeksha.htm

EXCERPT HERE:
"Oneness Deeksha Blessing and a short Tune-Up Session.... $ 25 Suggested Donation, about 15 minutes,
Daily Oneness Deeksha Blessing and mini Divine Tune-Up Sessions every day for one month. $400 A whole month of daily Awakening and Healing. Very Transformative and healing.

Keth Luke Blessing JanThe Oneness Blessing is designed to awaken humanity to causeless
joy and causeless love through the transfer of Divine Grace from the
Divine Presence. The Blessing itself initiates a neurobiological shift
in the brain that, when complete, enables the mind chatter to stop and
the heart to over flow with bliss. It helps us release pain and
suffering, and opens us up to the realization that we are love. A natural
clarity of perception occurs with accompanying spontaneous feelings
of inner calmness, joy, and connection to the Oneness in everything.

The Oneness Blessing comes from the Oneness University in India,
through Sri Amma and Sri Bhagavan, and is initiated in a training
which fires the engine of awakening. There is no religion or belief system
required. The Blessing works with all forms of spirituality by
connecting with our own personal form of the Divine."

[Vernaianawa]

Lol, the scientests still find it difficult to say the brain is a facet of the mind.





Similarly your thoughts are not your thoughts. Your mind is not your mind. Your body is not your body. The self is only a concept. The moment you become awakened you're out of all this and you see your thoughts automatically happening. You see your speech automatically happening and you see your actions. You may think you're moving your arm by your control. It's not so. You can watch the brain in real time. Moments before you decide to move your hand the brain had decided to move the hand. It's only the illusion that you have decided to move your hand.

There are some scientific research that shows the brain has already sent the signal for the movement before one is conscious of the movement:
http://exploringthemind.com/the-mind/brain-scans-can-reveal-your-decisions-7-seconds-before-you-decide



Brain Scans Can Reveal Your Decisions 7 Seconds Before You “Decide”

In a kind of spooky experiment, scientists at the Max Planck Institute for Human Cognitive and Brain Sciences reveal that our decisions are made seconds before we become aware of them.

In the study, participants could freely decide if they wanted to press a button with their right or left hand.

The only condition was that they had to remember when they made the decision to either use their right hand or left hand.

Using fMRI, researchers would scan the brains of the participants while all of this was going on in order to find out if they could in fact predict which hand the participants would use BEFORE they were consciously aware of the decision.

The Results

By monitoring the micro patterns of activity in the frontopolar cortex, the researchers could predict which hand the participant would choose 7 SECONDS before the participant was aware of the decision.

“Your decisions are strongly prepared by brain activity. By the time consciousness kicks in, most of the work has already been done,” said study co-author John-Dylan Haynes, a Max Planck Institute neuroscientist.

I don’t even know where to begin here! I know from the hypnosis research that the unconscious pretty much controls everything and that consciousness is extremely limited.

But, I do find it a bit disconcerting that decisions are made by unconscious me 7 seconds before conscious me…

I am not the only one.

This article also explains the reflex actions of our muscles:
http://www.positivehealth.com/article/chiropractic/reflex-reactions-our-body-s-rapid-defence-mechanism

[Vernaianawa]

The implication is , at this moment now, whatever your thoughts if any, are, they not be yours.
Absolutally not your thoughts.
Lol and if the thoughts come many seconds later, not instant, thoughts are the past, yes ?.

[Vernaianawa]

Thankyou Onevoice, what do you feel that means, 7 seconds ?, wonder whats happening during that seven ?.





Similarly your thoughts are not your thoughts. Your mind is not your mind. Your body is not your body. The self is only a concept. The moment you become awakened you're out of all this and you see your thoughts automatically happening. You see your speech automatically happening and you see your actions. You may think you're moving your arm by your control. It's not so. You can watch the brain in real time. Moments before you decide to move your hand the brain had decided to move the hand. It's only the illusion that you have decided to move your hand.

There are some scientific research that shows the brain has already sent the signal for the movement before one is conscious of the movement:
http://exploringthemind.com/the-mind/brain-scans-can-reveal-your-decisions-7-seconds-before-you-decide



Brain Scans Can Reveal Your Decisions 7 Seconds Before You “Decide”

In a kind of spooky experiment, scientists at the Max Planck Institute for Human Cognitive and Brain Sciences reveal that our decisions are made seconds before we become aware of them.

In the study, participants could freely decide if they wanted to press a button with their right or left hand.

The only condition was that they had to remember when they made the decision to either use their right hand or left hand.

Using fMRI, researchers would scan the brains of the participants while all of this was going on in order to find out if they could in fact predict which hand the participants would use BEFORE they were consciously aware of the decision.

The Results

By monitoring the micro patterns of activity in the frontopolar cortex, the researchers could predict which hand the participant would choose 7 SECONDS before the participant was aware of the decision.

“Your decisions are strongly prepared by brain activity. By the time consciousness kicks in, most of the work has already been done,” said study co-author John-Dylan Haynes, a Max Planck Institute neuroscientist.

I don’t even know where to begin here! I know from the hypnosis research that the unconscious pretty much controls everything and that consciousness is extremely limited.

But, I do find it a bit disconcerting that decisions are made by unconscious me 7 seconds before conscious me…

I am not the only one.

This article also explains the reflex actions of our muscles:
http://www.positivehealth.com/article/chiropractic/reflex-reactions-our-body-s-rapid-defence-mechanism

[Vernaianawa]

I do adore Rupert Sheldrake, banned for proving imo that the brain is not the mind, maybe a facet imo, anyway knowing of the extended mind


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YWiR6TRr4o

Helps imo the understanding of the nature of thought.

[Rich]

If we are aware of our thoughts then we can consciously create our future and future events, we do so all the time actually, thing is mostly we are not aware of them so things seem to happen "at random".

[Vernaianawa]

If ? Yes. Knowing your own mind to not repeat now, past, generational, cultural, planetary choices of not knowing ones mind. Imo Art Art Art what is your what is in the moment, the canvass. Randoom is potential known or felt as the what is unless your creating, when mind known enough imo and everyone is different and differing in this aspect imo.



If we are aware of our thoughts then we can consciously create our future and future events, we do so all the time actually, thing is mostly we are not aware of them so things seem to happen "at random".

[Lunesoleil]

Cheers, interesting, blows me mind thinking of Jose Arguelles organising the first world wide mass meditation in 1987, lol and the then pope demonising the event lol. We have come a long way.

Harmonic Convergence was the name given to the first synchronized global peace meditation at sacred sites around the world, which occurred on August 16–17, 1987. This event also closely coincided with an exceptional alignment of planets in the Solar System.

The principal organizers of the Harmonic Convergence event were José Argüelles and his wife Lloydine via the Planet Art Network (PAN).

This film explores what happened in Glastonbury, England during this time. With interviews from Rupert Sheldrake, Sir George Trevelyan, Robert Coon, Fred Lehrmann and many others.
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