On Earth As It Is In Heaven

[Helene West]

"....on earth as it is in heaven...."

I don't have much patience for meditation which probably means I need it but I do occasionally say the Lord's Prayer to myself and it does relax me. Recently it hit me that I do not know what it means - "....Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven..." I'm uttering words for which I don't really understand.

I've listened to scores of NDE's (Near Death Experiences) and they fascinate me. Countless people who don't know eachother having similar experiences. These are people who are either pronounced dead or have had a trauma and wake up finding themselves not only outside of their body but suddenly in a different place altogether which many of them call Heaven for want of a better word. They all relay a place of incredible Love they say can't be put in words and find themselves surrounded, enmeshed in Beauty that also render them almost speechless.

What is supposed to manifest on Earth that is in Heaven? Is the prayer saying Earth will not end until it reflects the same qualites as heaven? To me that is impossible and will not happen.

In the Occult, there is the famous and somewhat similar saying - "...AS ABOVE SO BELOW..." Obviously the occultists are on to something Jesus was also trying to convey to us, but what?
Any thoughts would be appreciated. thx

[Foxie Loxie]

Good point! Since I have learned who this "Father" is.....I no longer do that "meditation"! ;) (a la Robert Stanley experiences)

I now do the Warrior's Creed instead! :happy dog:

[we-R-one]

"....on earth as it is in heaven...."

I don't have much patience for meditation which probably means I need it but I do occasionally say the Lord's Prayer to myself and it does relax me. Recently it hit me that I do not know what it means - "....Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven..." I'm uttering words for which I don't really understand.

Forgive me, but I burst out laughing when you said the last sentence. I only laugh because how many of us have done the same, myself included! You make a good point! More of us are beginning to think for ourselves rather than play follow the leader which means we question...a sign of growth!

I think Heaven is a higher vibrational environment, it's where the soul goes when the body dies. Research suggests there are different dimensions and what you believe(Biology of Belief) dictates where in those dimensions one may find themselves. I interpret the wish is for the soul to evolve to the point that living on Earth is the same as being in Heaven, meaning the energetic foundation of both will be one and the same...'on Earth as it is in Heaven.'

Hugs to you Helene!

[Fellow Aspirant]

Good question. Here's my personal take:

The previous part of the sentence will give you some context, as it is asking for God to come to earth and set things right. The version I am most familiar with goes ...

"Thy Kingdom come ..." (i.e. when your Kingdom comes to the earthly realm, (then) thy will (will) be done, on earth as it is, in heaven." So, the supplicant (you/me) is asking that God come and make earthly things operate by heaven's laws; that is, according to God's will, not the will of mankind.

Just my take, of course.

Namaste,

Brian

[East Sun]

"Your will, as it is in heaven."
How are we to know how it is in heaven?

And, the phrases of, "lead us not into temptation" "and deliver us from evil" means that maybe god might
guide us in the wrong direction, maybe, and we are asking him not to.

[Michelle Marie]

It is said that the Kingdom of Heaven is within. When I go within to meditate, I feel a deep sense of peace.

It sure would be nice if there would be that deep sense of peace on Earth as it is in the Heaven deep in my heart.

The other day I was at home having a slow and easy peaceful day. I drifted into a reverie of deep peace. I was wondering what it would be like if lots of people cultivated that vibration of peace and it spread around the world.

*******
"Thy Will Be Done"... When I am at peace, I feel resonance with Creative Will. I get downloads of information, or I get inspired to write something, or do something. It's like the lake of my consciousness is calm and I can get the most clear impressions.
********
I'm just speaking from my own experience and musings. I don't really know the answer!

********
I recently read the book "Proof of Heaven" by Eben Alexander. He was a physician and didn't believe in it really, until he got critically ill and went into a coma for a week...and went to Heaven. He also wrote "Map of Heaven" but I haven't read that yet. After my best friend went there, I read a lot of books about NDEs, the soul's journey, the bardo, etc. It sounds fascinating!

37302

MM :heart:

[ghostrider]

There is this material realm, and there is many spiritual levels... it mostly depends upon the thinking of the human being, inside the human being is the realm of heaven /hell / the creative realm ... the tiny spark of Creation inside each of us is the same spark that created everything... number of incarnations, life experiences will determine the level of evolution ... spirits that have incarnated longer will have abilities younger spirits wont have yet ... 40-60 million years until we reach half spirit half material, then 56 million years we reach a pure spirit level where we no longer need a material body to learn... 3 billion years in that state, and the levels go up and up , finer and finer , this pure spirit level is where most people experience the light, the voices, the love etc... the job of the higher evolved is to help the lower evolved gain ground in the evolutive process... you can read some material from one of the figu sites, they have alot to say about this topic... in eternity everything is connected and timeless ...

[Oddball]

As it is above, so it is below. It's reminding us that the microcosm and the macrocosm are reflections of each other
Gods will is manifested at the largest and smallest scales.
That's my unsolicited take on it anyways.

[Noelle]

I have nothing to contribute in interpreting the prayer, but I can point out that some say it originates from the hypothetical Q Document (Q Source). :) I learned this recently -- right around the time that Pope Francis announced he wanted to change a line in the prayer.

More About Q and the Gospel of Thomas (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/qthomas.html):

Q is the designation for a gospel that no longer exists, but many think must have existed at one time. In fact, even though no copy of this gospel has survived independently, some nineteenth-century scholars found fragments of such an early Christian composition embeded in the gospels of Matthew and Luke.

By putting these two gospels beside that of Mark, scholars realized that when Matthew and Luke are telling the story about Jesus, for the most part they both follow the order and often even the wording of Mark. But, into this common narrative outline, Matthew and Luke each insert extra sayings and teachings of Jesus. And although Matthew and Luke do not put these sayings in the same order, nevertheless they each repeat many of the same sayings, sometimes word for word.

Since for other reasons it seems unlikely that either Matthew or Luke could have copied from the other, how can this sort of agreement be explained? The answer appears to be that Matthew and Luke each had two sources in common: the Gospel of Mark and another gospel, now lost, a collection of sayings known only as Q.

Q stands for "Quelle," the German word for source. Although no actual copy of Q has ever been found, many scholars are convinced that such a document once circulated in early Christian communities. Since it was difficult to get excited about something that did not exist, Q remained a hypothesis that lingered on the edges of scholarly research. But in 1945, a chance discovery in Egypt provided surprisingly new evidence that rekindled interest in the possible existence of Q.

[Helene West]

Good question. Here's my personal take:

The previous part of the sentence will give you some context, as it is asking for God to come to earth and set things right. The version I am most familiar with goes ...

"Thy Kingdom come ..." (i.e. when your Kingdom comes to the earthly realm, (then) thy will (will) be done, on earth as it is, in heaven." So, the supplicant (you/me) is asking that God come and make earthly things operate by heaven's laws; that is, according to God's will, not the will of mankind.

Just my take, of course.

Namaste,

Brian

Ah, supplication! I was raised to be a supplicant. On my knees, please, please God. My poor mother is still begging God to help this one and that one and herself....

It wasn't until I was well in my '30s that I read something from Unity church and it may have been Emmet Fox who pointed out that right there in the Gospels, Mark 11, that we are told to pray as if we already received, our need was already known and being handled. What a finding for me! I could assume, I could expect with confidence that God would answer, that it's already handled and that as a reflecton of God I had a right to expect a positive outcome!

For over 2000 years it was there in the gospels yet everyone I knew was trained to ask, solicit sincerely and humbly, and whatever happened, it was His will. Not ever a mention of what St. Mark had said. And those who read the Bible didn't even see it because we were trained not to see what was right in front of us.

In the past I'd be angry at the church fathers for perpetuating this supplicant mentality. Now I realize that praying knowing you will receive or know that it has already taken place is much more difficult than begging. A lot of belief and also knowledge is necessary to pray like a 'real' Christian, the kind St. Mark is addressing. It's easier for the average person to just say 'please'.

Praying as if one has already received for me is a Principle.
That is what I'm looking for in 'as above so below' and 'on earth as it is in heaven'. There's a principle involved somewhere in that and i don't think it's about supplication.
The occult rendition and the christian rendition are similar and the occultists are no supplicants!

[Fellow Aspirant]

Good question. Here's my personal take:

The previous part of the sentence will give you some context, as it is asking for God to come to earth and set things right. The version I am most familiar with goes ...

"Thy Kingdom come ..." (i.e. when your Kingdom comes to the earthly realm, (then) thy will (will) be done, on earth as it is, in heaven." So, the supplicant (you/me) is asking that God come and make earthly things operate by heaven's laws; that is, according to God's will, not the will of mankind.

Just my take, of course.

Namaste,

Brian

Ah, supplication! I was raised to be a supplicant. On my knees, please, please God. My poor mother is still begging God to help this one and that one and herself....

It wasn't until I was well in my '30s that I read something from Unity church and it may have been Emmet Fox who pointed out that right there in the Gospels, Mark 11, that we are told to pray as if we already received, our need was already known and being handled. What a finding for me! I could assume, I could expect with confidence that God would answer, that it's already handled and that as a reflecton of God I had a right to expect a positive outcome!

For over 2000 years it was there in the gospels yet everyone I knew was trained to ask, solicit sincerely and humbly, and whatever happened, it was His will. Not ever a mention of what St. Mark had said. And those who read the Bible didn't even see it because we were trained not to see what was right in front of us.

In the past I'd be angry at the church fathers for perpetuating this supplicant mentality. Now I realize that praying knowing you will receive or know that it has already taken place is much more difficult than begging. A lot of belief and also knowledge is necessary to pray like a 'real' Christian, the kind St. Mark is addressing. It's easier for the average person to just say 'please'.

Praying as if one has already received for me is a Principle.
That is what I'm looking for in 'as above so below' and 'on earth as it is in heaven'. There's a principle involved somewhere in that and i don't think it's about supplication.
The occult rendition and the christian rendition are similar and the occultists are no supplicants!

Interesting. But if you have already received a blessing, aren't you, in your prayers, giving thanks?

If so, then what is being accomplished by performing the act of "praying"? What would be the intent? I had always thought it was an act of asking.

Hmmmmmm ... Fascinating possibilities here, Helene.

Namaste,

Brian

[Oddball]

If so, then what is being accomplished by performing the act of "praying"? What would be the intent? I had always thought it was an act of asking.


I am a Melanoma survivor and I am 100 percent convinced that I am alive today because of the power of prayer. Its been said that just the prayers of 10 people can avert a nation going to war.

Too many people approach prayer like they are writing a wish list for Santa at Christmas time. I consider it a much more meditative act. You must get your noisy mind quiet as you can to commune with the Creator. I see the act of prayer as a releasing of your faith in God more than anything.

I know many people, family included who have asked me why I would ever believe in a fairy tale book that is full of contradictions. Here is the thing most people don't seem to understand about the bible though, if you read it in a way where you are looking for contradictions and inconsistencies, then thats all you are going to find. However if you read scripture in a prayerful, thoughtful, meditative way, then the hidden meanings contained therein begin to reveal themselves to you. I believe that's why Jesus spoke in metaphors and parables so much. There are layers to the wisdom he taught for those with "ears to hear".

[Sunny-side-up]

on earth as it is in heaven
'Heaven and Earth'
'As above so below'

'Higher self' and 'Earthly, material self' as one.

It's not about receiving, it's about being :)

[Agape]

“Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven”

Possibly means “May your will, principles of Divine Love, righteousness, virtues and so forth be followed without mistake. Fastly and efficiently. Without delays and procrastination. If you know something is right to do, do it. If you know something is not right to do, don’t do it. And feel the love within that is merciful ..”

I think that the line reflects some Old Testament teachings
that describe “Heaven” as place or say dimension of existence
where all Angels follow Divine Will and rejoice in it.
The higher the heaven ,
more principled inhabitants you find ...

in the lower heavens angels just sing and dance around but they’re still good beings

descend to Earth ..it’s an unruly place .

People act out of principles and character all the time and some try to impersonate Divine Love and think that shadows of their human selves represent Divine Will.

Most of the old religions got this point settled :

there’ll always be Earth and Heaven ( relatively speaking, of course).

Things won’t function perfectly on Earth but we are still to keep trying .


It’s a simple trick ...follow Love and instantly you create a Heaven. Sometimes it takes an action or two but if you feel good it can’t end up too bad.

Acting against the Love of Life, no matter how right it may feel , if it makes you feel bad it’s bad because you’re creating little Hell.

There’s a positive direction in every prayer ...

create a Heaven.

Don’t just move like a fool, without heart.


Be filled by Love that is Blessing


:heart:

[Foxie Loxie]

What wonderful postings! It is so great to read everyone's take on all this....Great Minds! :ROFL: Speaking of The Gospels.....Joseph Atwill's books gave me the answers I had been seeking....not even a need for "Q" there! :sherlock:

[Valerie Villars]

Helene, I think I understand where you are coming from, because I posted something called "Pondering Prayer" not too long ago. Because the nature of the universe was revealed to me (in a tiny, huge way) it set my head reeling over just what is really going on here. I still have trouble praying because of it, BUT I earnestly believe that is just a stumbling block in the learning curve. I really do believe that intent and personal power in the service of the greater benevolence is the key and if that is really in your heart, it kind of doesn't matter what the words say as long as the intent is pure and good and most emphatically not begging. There's just an earnest, pure, childlike quality of gratitude and faith, minus any and all manipulation that is the real meat of any prayer that is the real deal.

The fact that you are questioning it seems to indicate a real path of your life being your prayer. And the key is the word YOUR life and not what someone else has dictated to be the proper prayer or the proper life for you. It is just you earnestly seeking God.

Lady M had some real, true points. The Gospel of Thomas is quite close to the truth. And it was hidden to us until recently. It's the real deal.

[Helene West]

I'm touched by all the wonderful responses, thank you all so much.

Lady M, I just ordered the Gospel of St. Thomas. I'm so curious to read the 'sayings of Jesus' outside of the 4 famous gospels.

I was perusing around regarding the occult version of my question, "as above so below" and what kept popping up is something called The Emerald Tablet supposedly from the ancient alchemist, Hermes Trismegistus. I'm not into Wicca (ok maybe a little during my early feminist days) or witchcraft but just for something different I'm copying below from an apparent wiccan or modern alchemist. I can't give you the source because no sooner had I copied it off the site that my security software started giving me red alerts so I got off the site quickly.
-------------

When Witches seal a circle casting, sacred space or a spell, they often say the words "As above, so below. This circle (or spell) is sealed. So mote it be." That's great but what does this mean? The words As above, so below stem from the mystery traditions of Alchemy, and specifically from an amazing piece of work called the EMERALD TABLET.

The credo of the alchemical adepts (As above, so below) supposedly came from an inscription found on an emerald tablet in the hands of a mummy in an obscure pit by the pyramid of Giza, discovered by Alexander the Great. The information was supposedly written on an emerald tablet with a pointed diamond. The emerald was linked to Mercury, and you can see now where the Hermes-Mercury-Thoth association comes into play. The document is called the Emerald Tablet and if you read the words carefully you will slowly understand a large chunk of the mystery traditions, including Witchcraft.

THE EMERALD TABLET
The following translation of the Emerald Tablet is a modern translation by J.F.Ruska.

1. IN TRUTH CERTAINLY AND WITHOUT DOUBT WHATEVER IS BELOW IS LIKE THAT WHICH IS ABOVE, AND WHATEVER IS ABOVE IS LIKE THAT WHICH IS BELOW, TO ACCOMPLISH THE MIRACLES OF ONE THING.
2. Just as all things proceed from One alone by meditation by One alone, so also they are born from this one thing by adaptation.
3. Its father is the sun and its mother is the moon. The wind has borne it in it body. Its nurse is the earth.
4. It is the father of every miraculous work in the whole world.
5. Its power is perfect if it is converted to earth.
6. Separate the earth from the fire and the subtle from the gross, softly and with great prudence.
7. It rises from the earth to heaven and comes down again from heaven to earth, and thus acquires the power of the realities above and the realities below. In this way you acquire the glory of the whole world, and all darkness will leave you.
8. This is the power of all powers, for it conquers everything subtle and penetrates everything solid.
9. Thus the little world is created according to the prototype of the great world.
10. From this and in this way, marvelous applications are made.
11. For this reason I am called Hermes Trismegistus, for I possess the three parts of wisdom of the whole world.
12. Perfect is what I have said of the work of the sun.

[ramus]

Here is the warrior's creed as mentioned by Foxie Loxie

https://thewisdomwarrior.com/2014/11/14/a-warriors-creed/

A Warrior’s Creed

I have no parents – I make Heaven and Earth my parents.
I have no home – I make awareness my home.
I have no life or death – I make the tides of breathing life and death.
I have no divine power – I make honesty my divine power.
I have no means – I make understanding my means.
I have no magic secrets – I make character my magic secret.
I have no body – I make endurance my body.
I have no eyes – I make the flash of lightening my eyes.
I have no ears – I make sensibility my ears.
I have no limbs – I make promptness my limbs.
I have no strategy – I make “unshadowed by thought” my strategy.
I have no designs – I make “seizing opportunity by the forelock” my designs.
I have no miracles – I make right action my miracles.
I have no principles – I make adaptability to all circumstances my principles.
I have no tactics – I make emptiness and fullness my tactics.
I have no friends – I make my mind my friend.
I have no enemy – I make carelessness my enemy.
I have no armor – I make benevolence and righteousness my armor.
I have no castle – I make immovable mind my castle.
I have no sword – I make absence of self my sword.
(written by a 14th century samurai)

[Helene West]

How could I have forgotten?
In my long journey of searching for answers I tried many things, formal and informal. The closest I came to system of thought/belief that intuitively felt correct to me was Christian Science. NO, it is not a cult, furthest thing from that. They have no hierarchy, no clergy. They attract a high percentage of educated people. I think they may also have on record the most healings of any religion.

So why did I not continue with that from many years ago? Because I was too weak. The slightest pain or discomfort and I want material relief as soon as possible. They calmly read, study and pray for healing. If you think you believe that your true nature is spiritual, well, they put their money where their mouth is!...At any rate, I meandered away continuing searching, searching. I just remembered their lovely version of the Lord's Prayer. It may surprise you. Each familiar line of the prayer is followed by their interpretation. They say this entire version at their services:

Our Father which art in heaven,
Our Father-Mother God, all-harmonious,

Hallowed be Thy name.
Adorable One.

Thy kingdom come.
Thy kingdom is come; Thou art ever-present.

Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Enable us to know, — as in heaven, so on earth, —
God is omnipotent, supreme.

Give us this day our daily bread;
Give us grace for to-day; feed the famished affections;

And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
And Love is reflected in love;

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil;
And God leadeth us not into temptation, but delivereth
us from sin, disease, and death.

For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever.
For God is infinite, all-power, all Life, Truth, Love,
over all, and All.

From Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures
by Mary Baker Eddy, pp. 16–17

[The Freedom Train]

I have nothing to contribute in interpreting the prayer, but I can point out that some say it originates from the hypothetical Q Document (Q Source). :) I learned this recently -- right around the time that Pope Francis announced he wanted to change a line in the prayer.

More About Q and the Gospel of Thomas (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/qthomas.html):

Q is the designation for a gospel that no longer exists, but many think must have existed at one time. In fact, even though no copy of this gospel has survived independently, some nineteenth-century scholars found fragments of such an early Christian composition embeded in the gospels of Matthew and Luke.

By putting these two gospels beside that of Mark, scholars realized that when Matthew and Luke are telling the story about Jesus, for the most part they both follow the order and often even the wording of Mark. But, into this common narrative outline, Matthew and Luke each insert extra sayings and teachings of Jesus. And although Matthew and Luke do not put these sayings in the same order, nevertheless they each repeat many of the same sayings, sometimes word for word.

Since for other reasons it seems unlikely that either Matthew or Luke could have copied from the other, how can this sort of agreement be explained? The answer appears to be that Matthew and Luke each had two sources in common: the Gospel of Mark and another gospel, now lost, a collection of sayings known only as Q.

Q stands for "Quelle," the German word for source. Although no actual copy of Q has ever been found, many scholars are convinced that such a document once circulated in early Christian communities. Since it was difficult to get excited about something that did not exist, Q remained a hypothesis that lingered on the edges of scholarly research. But in 1945, a chance discovery in Egypt provided surprisingly new evidence that rekindled interest in the possible existence of Q.

I can't stop thinking of Q from Star Trek while reading this :)

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Here is the warrior's creed as mentioned by Foxie Loxie

https://thewisdomwarrior.com/2014/11/14/a-warriors-creed/

A Warrior’s Creed

I have no parents – I make Heaven and Earth my parents.
I have no home – I make awareness my home.
I have no life or death – I make the tides of breathing life and death.
I have no divine power – I make honesty my divine power.
I have no means – I make understanding my means.
I have no magic secrets – I make character my magic secret.
I have no body – I make endurance my body.
I have no eyes – I make the flash of lightening my eyes.
I have no ears – I make sensibility my ears.
I have no limbs – I make promptness my limbs.
I have no strategy – I make “unshadowed by thought” my strategy.
I have no designs – I make “seizing opportunity by the forelock” my designs.
I have no miracles – I make right action my miracles.
I have no principles – I make adaptability to all circumstances my principles.
I have no tactics – I make emptiness and fullness my tactics.
I have no friends – I make my mind my friend.
I have no enemy – I make carelessness my enemy.
I have no armor – I make benevolence and righteousness my armor.
I have no castle – I make immovable mind my castle.
I have no sword – I make absence of self my sword.
(written by a 14th century samurai)

This has badass written all over it!

¤=[Post Update]=¤



If so, then what is being accomplished by performing the act of "praying"? What would be the intent? I had always thought it was an act of asking.


I am a Melanoma survivor and I am 100 percent convinced that I am alive today because of the power of prayer. Its been said that just the prayers of 10 people can avert a nation going to war.

Too many people approach prayer like they are writing a wish list for Santa at Christmas time. I consider it a much more meditative act. You must get your noisy mind quiet as you can to commune with the Creator. I see the act of prayer as a releasing of your faith in God more than anything.

I know many people, family included who have asked me why I would ever believe in a fairy tale book that is full of contradictions. Here is the thing most people don't seem to understand about the bible though, if you read it in a way where you are looking for contradictions and inconsistencies, then thats all you are going to find. However if you read scripture in a prayerful, thoughtful, meditative way, then the hidden meanings contained therein begin to reveal themselves to you. I believe that's why Jesus spoke in metaphors and parables so much. There are layers to the wisdom he taught for those with "ears to hear".

How wonderful. You have mastered patience, appreciation, and communion with your creator. Bravo!

[ramus]

I posted this on The Silly Season thread also ,but it seems to fit here more....don't know if that's alright but here it is.

The 12 rules of life , An antidote to chaos by Jordan b Peterson

https://andersonfloristgreenhouse.co...-for-life.html

There are many pdf versions but you have to sign up, which I'm not fond of.

I thought this fit perfectly with The silly season

Here is a cliff note version of the book:

Just a few years ago, I was an unknown professor writing academic books that
nobody read. Then, with God’s help, I decided to stop feeling sorry for myself
and develop my potential. Pinkos and wishy-washy liberals had cornered the
market in cod psychology, so I guessed there must be a huge hunger for a
self-help book, backed up with religion, mythology, CAPITAL LETTERS and stating
the obvious – one directed at responsible, socially minded conservatives craving
some pseudointellectual ideology to prop up their beliefs. And bingo! Here are
my 12 Rules for Life.
>
> 1 Stand up straight with your shoulders straight
> Most lobsters are complete bastards left to their own devices. Most humans are
complete bastards left to their own devices. This proves there is a God who
wants us to have Order. Order is Masculine and Chaos is Feminine. Therefore to
move towards Order, we all need to man up. Happiness is pointless. We are all on
this Earth to suffer. So learn to suffer like a man. Not everyone can be as rich
and successful as me, but try to be less of a failure than you already are.
> Guardian Morning Briefing - sign up and start the day one step ahead
> Read more
>
> 2 Treat yourself like someone you are responsible for helping
> The story of the Garden of Eden shows that we are all touched with Original
Sin But you have a choice. You can either seek Heaven or be dragged down into
Hell. Yes, you have a shameful, sinful nature but for God’s sake just make a bit
of an effort. Stop waiting for other people to dig you out of your pitiful hole.
>
> 3 Befriend people who want the best for you
> We are all Being. Just some of us are better Beings. Learn to tell the
difference. Some people are beyond help. They are merely exploiting the
willingness of good people to help them and, as Dostoyevsky rightly observes,
will drag you down to their level. So stick with the winners. If people are
determined to screw up, let them. They are nothing to do with the Divine
Purpose.
>
> 4 Compare yourself to who you were yesterday, not the useless person you are
today
> Face it, you’re never going to be that smart, so don’t compare yourself to
someone who is. Start by getting on your knees to pray. Even if you don’t
Believe in God. Atheists are merely people who are blinded to the true way of
Being. There, you feel marginally less useless already.

>
> 5 Do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them
> Remember that children are born with Original Sin and have a huge capacity for
Evil. They are not Innocent Beings. They need Discipline if they are going to
grow up to be even vaguely worthwhile humans. And slap them if necessary – don’t
listen to what the lefties say.
>
> 6 Set your house in order before you criticise the world
> Remember the story of Cain and Abel? Well, read it then. Yes, Abel was a
schmuck who deserved to die and Cain wasn’t quite as goddamn perfect as he
thought he was. He deserved to die, too. We all deserve to die. So stop moaning
if someone is richer and better looking than you.
>
> 7 Pursue what is meaningful, not what is expedient
> Life is suffering. The Book of Genesis tells us that. There is no easy way
round this. So quit looking for short cuts and start reading Nietzsche.
>
> 8 Tell the truth. Or at least don’t lie
> To be honest, I’m scrabbling around for thingsbut my publishers tell me I need

> 9 Assume the person you are listening to knows something you don’t
> Just shut up, quit moaning and listen to me. I know things you don’t. So don’t
expect me to listen to you. That’s not the way things work. I’m here to make you
feel Better about Yourself by telling you things you already know in a way that
makes you feel clever.
>
> 10 Be precise in your speech
> Confront the chaos of Being. Don’t try to beat about the bush. Things are
going to be terrible. Oedipus killed his Dad. You may well kill yours. Get over
it. Face up to the real horrors of the world.
>
> 11 Do not bother children while they are skateboarding
> This is the rule that’s the real catnip for right-wingers everywhere. Want to
know why the world is falling apart? It’s because liberals are turning boys into
girlies with their namby-pamby ways. Let boys do boy things and girls do girl
things. Nowhere in the Bible does God say anything about this trans nonsense.
There’s nothing wrong with men having all the best jobs and women staying home
to look after the kids. So back off, ladies, and give us men a break.
>
> 12 Pet a cat when you encounter one in the street
> OK. So I really am scraping the barrel now. We’re all going to die. Probably
painfully. So just make the best of what you’ve got. If you see a cat, stroke
it. You might feel better. Though probably not. And if there are no cats, pet
something else. Like a dog.
>
> Digested read digested: Blessed are the Strong, for they shall inherit the
Earth.
------------------------------------
JORDAN PETERSON INTERVIEW BEFORE BOOK RELEASE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJJClhqGq_M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJJClhqGq_M

[Foxie Loxie]

Sorry.....I no longer buy into the idea of Original Sin as that is one of the means that has been used to control us peons! I speak from an entire lifetime of being under that control! :bigsmile:

Thanks to Avalon, I have learned that I am an Eternal, SOVEREIGN Being.....I existed before I took on this body & I continue to exist after I leave this body! No more chains for me! :dancing:

[petra]

In the Occult, there is the famous and somewhat similar saying - "...AS ABOVE SO BELOW..." Obviously the occultists are on to something Jesus was also trying to convey to us, but what?
Any thoughts would be appreciated. thx

I know this one well. Personally I find it emphasizes God's Will and trust in God our Father, but the "above and below" business is a real trip up imo. Let's say you're out in space. There's no above or below in space now is there.

Here's an interesting concept which I think originates in the Kaballah (Ref: https://blog.hebrewseminary.org/tag/as-above-so-below)


What is above is below, and what is below is above. We know that the human is a microcosm of the universe, while the universe is a macrocosm of the human. And heaven and earth are mere reflections of each other.

[Helene West]

Sorry.....I no longer buy into the idea of Original Sin as that is one of the means that has been used to control us peons! I speak from an entire lifetime of being under that control! :bigsmile:

Thanks to Avalon, I have learned that I am an Eternal, SOVEREIGN Being.....I existed before I took on this body & I continue to exist after I leave this body! No more chains for me! :dancing:


Foxie, I was raised similarly to you. Very religious and the religiosity imparted by very uneducated persons. I get where you're coming from.

As I was not able to embrace atheism and just be done with the whole thing, I embarked early on for an entire life of searching for answers. I could list the them all but what for...

I've come to a few conclusions from my searching.

1) Since the human brain utilizes associations many are just going to keep associating the principles of a religion with what evil humans have used and subverted it for. They settle for the automatic association and can't be bothered sorting out the human subterfuge from the religious/spiritual principle.

2) The many, many intellectual theories analyzing Christianity, its origins, who Jesus was or wasn't, etc. are incredibly interesting but all the intellectual exegeses in the world is not going to help me with what will be my next assignment (next life) once I take my Last Breath. However, I believe the principles within the religion, no, not the manmade dogma that surrounds the religions like macabre gatekeepers, CAN.

3) I need to Stop searching and pick something; If I was under 45 yrs old I'd be cool with continue searching but at this point it has occurred to me strongly to stop the incessant searching, pick a Tool to help and concentrate on using the tool/s.
What do I need tools for? What am I trying to do? Influence what my next life or next assignment will be. Confusing myself with any more theories/beliefs or discoveries isn't going to help me with this project. The Tibetan Book of the Dead is something similar to my idea now. They utilize exercises to try and influence the path or direction of the dying person's soul.

I believe there is more direction in the Lord's Prayer than in the entire book of Caesar's Messiah (which I have saved to my Ipad btw and enjoy).

15 years ago I took a course in the Inquisition. Some days I could barely hold back my tears. Believe me those women, and they were mostly women 9 to 1, were raped into unconsciousness before they were dragged to the barbecue pit. That would be a good reason for many never to set foot in a church. But that's how humans are. The irony is I don't believe in over 2000 years hardly anyone has practiced Christianity as taught in the gospels!!

and so I continue my meditation on the Lord's Prayer, thx...

[Michelle Marie]

Sorry.....I no longer buy into the idea of Original Sin as that is one of the means that has been used to control us peons! I speak from an entire lifetime of being under that control! :bigsmile:

Thanks to Avalon, I have learned that I am an Eternal, SOVEREIGN Being.....I existed before I took on this body & I continue to exist after I leave this body! No more chains for me! :dancing:

I don't buy into "the useless person you are today".

It seems he may need to read self-help books; not write them. :facepalm:

:heart: Know ThySelf and face your Greatness! :heart:

:bearhug:
MM

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