Spelling Prompts

[Mike]

I do at least half of my Avalon'ing from work. So I do at least half of my Avalon'ing from my smart phone. As far as I know, all smart phones have some version of autocorrect. I have a Samsung S6, and if I misspell a word it will either:

A) Correct it automatically to the proper spelling

B) Turn the word into whatever word it determines I'm trying to spell, which isn't the word I intended.

C) Leave my word alone, but give me 2 other options that my misspelling may be attempting to represent, and a third option (a check mark) that confirms that my word is the way I want it if I select it.

When I'm on my laptop and I misspell a word on Avalon, the misspelling is underlined by a squiggly red line. It's not corrected automatically, but it lets me know a correction is required.

My question for the forum:
While posting, is everybody getting some sort of prompt when a spelling error occurs?

I'm very curious.

[Orph]

Fer shur. Iff I messpell a wurd it gets underlined with red dots thaaaat only shew up in my reply box. Not the actual post.

[Catsquotl]

Not always.
It does on my computer. But depends on the options I've checked.
Being a non native English language user(just corrected english to have a capitol letter, leaving this one red) I have to remember downloading and installing appropiate language pack's, dictionaries etc.
Also choose if I want english(us) or english(gb) or some other english flavor.

I usually have autocorrect (why is this word red underlined? Mike uses it like this in his post above?) disabled on my phone. It drives me crazy..
and never get's as funny as these (http://www.damnyouautocorrect.com/13603/the-25-funniest-autocorrects-of-dyacs-first-year/)

With Love
Eelco

[wnlight]

When using either Firefox or Safari web browser on a desktop Mac:
If I misspell Giza as Geza there is a red underline.

When using my iPhone:
If I misspell Giza as Geza there is no a red underline.

[Mike]

I usually have autocorrect (why is this word red underlined? Mike uses it like this in his post above?)

Yeah I got the squiggly red line on that one too:) I was forced to 'google' it. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/autocorrect

"Avalon'ing" on the other hand...:bigsmile:

[Flash]

I do at least half of my Avalon'ing from work. So I do at least half of my Avalon'ing from my smart phone. As far as I know, all smart phones have some version of autocorrect. I have a Samsung S6, and if I misspell a word it will either:

A) Correct it automatically to the proper spelling

B) Turn the word into whatever word it determines I'm trying to spell, which isn't the word I intended.

C) Leave my word alone, but give me 2 other options that my misspelling may be attempting to represent, and a third option (a check mark) that confirms that my word is the way I want it if I select it.

When I'm on my laptop and I misspell a word on Avalon, the misspelling is underlined by a squiggly red line. It's not corrected automatically, but it lets me know a correction is required.

My question for the forum:
While posting, is everybody getting some sort of prompt when a spelling error occurs?

I'm very curious.

I took off the autocorrect on my smartphone, it would mix French and English, while typing in English it would presume it is a French word and vice versa. You would not believe the weird texts some recipients received.

On my computer, In installed Grammarly for English, sometimes it works, sometimes it just show nothing, I do not know why. Maybe it is mixed up in between languages again???

[Michelle Marie]

My iPad has autocorrect. But sometimes it is annoying.

It will change words, usually names that I spell correctly, to words that are incorrect. Then I have to go back and correct them!

Also, I may want to use the possessive form of its, and it will go and put an apostrophe in, and then I have to correct it.

Anyway, sometimes it does the correcting, and sometimes I have to correct it, or wind up with an error if I do not catch it.

My laptop is like yours, if I remember correctly. I don't use it much, so upon reflection, I would have to go back and test it to confirm that. Pretty sure, though. :)

MM :panda:

[Tintin]

When replying to a post on a thread here I may get a red squiggly line. Fortunately my English grammar is pretty sound so it doesn't happen that often, and, I don't use a smartphone, or predictive text on my old-ish brick, so it forces the issue for me to get it right.

And then there's the dreaded 'of'. I wish folk would desist from using 'of' in place of apostrophe ve ('ve). It's a shocker, and seems to be pandemic. There's also 'off of' which actually doesn't really mean anything. There's no need to use 'of'. For example: you can throw yourself off, or from a cliff, not off of a cliff!

Apologies but it is a major bugbear of mine, that. :handshake:
:bigsmile:One squiggly line here in my response - old-ish.

[DeDukshyn]

I think its browser or add-on specific - but it seems most browsers do it now? I find I'm often having to look up words that I got the red squiggly on - they are usually real words, but the spellchecker doesn't think so. Argute, for example ... not that I'd ever use that specific word.

[Tam]

I post on my phone regularly.Tested it on my phone. OnePlus 5X, with Google Keyboard. No underlining of misspelled words in Avalon itself. I temporarily disabled autocorrect to test it, as otherwise, autocorect kicks in for me.

Spelling prompts on cell phones are the result of your keyboard of choice (this is only applicable to Android users). As far as I am aware, your OS or phone model will not impact this.

Downloading another keyboard may fix any issue you have. I recommend Fleksy. It's free, and you can change literally everything. And I mean everything.

[Bill Ryan]

I'll answer the question too (this is an interesting thread! :thumbsup: ) — I only use Firefox on Mac. I have no tablet or smartphone.

I always get a red dotted line under any word the computer dictionary doesn't recognize. (Although I'm English English, I gave in a long time ago and set my computer language preferences to American English. :) )

[Bill Ryan]

An anecdote (which I always remember!) ...a warning against spellcheckers. Read this one carefully.

A true story from the Human Resources (Personnel) Department of a company I consulted for once. A memo went out:




" [ ....... ], and we recommend that this person should not be retained."
It was a typo. The INTENDED message was




"...we recommend that this person should not be retrained."
The poor guy in question nearly lost his job. The memo perfectly passed the spellcheck test! Fortunately, the mistake was caught... by a human being actually reading it carefully for a second time, the following day. :)

[meeradas]

While posting, is everybody getting some sort of prompt when a spelling error occurs?

Nope.

I have no spellcheckers [on].

[Matthew]

All the devices I use (phone, tablet, desktop) have spellcheckers on automatically. I love spellcheckers. In the days before spellcheckers it was hard to know when a word was spelt wrong. So glad to have the squiggle

[Michi]

My Android smart phone doesn't show a squiggly line when mis-spelling but suggest German words.:idea:
Thus I prefer typing on my computer with English spell check in place.
But I always review my text.
Sometimes I catch a mistake after posting.

[Ewan]

Don't have any spell-checker on PC. Sometimes I make mistakes, usually caught on re-reading. If a word doesn't look right I can type it in search box and usually get the correct spelling, or find it was right and still doesn't look right. :)

They annoy me actually. :)

[Valerie Villars]

Yes, I get the red line. I finally pulled a dictionary out and keep it nearby, but sometimes ignore the misspellings and I see now that was the wrong thing to do.

Higher standards and all.

[Hervé]

Don't have any spell-checker on PC. Sometimes I make mistakes, usually caught on re-reading. If a word doesn't look right I can type it in search box and usually get the correct spelling, or find it was right and still doesn't look right. :)

They annoy me actually. :)
A spellchecker would come with the "program" one is typing with: it could either be some MS-word, Open Office, etc... or the browser one uses.

I use Firefox and when typing in this edit/post box, the wavy line would appear underneath either misspelled words or unknown words (not listed in the add-on language dictionary), but, that wavy line would only appear if the "Check Spelling" option is checked/activated in the "Options" for the browser or in the popup menu that appears when right-clicking within the text/edit/post/compose box.

In that same popup menu there is also a "Language" option where I switch between English (US) and French (Classic) since I have the latter installed for the browser as an add-on in the browser's option menu...

When right-clicking on a red, wavy underlined word, a number of options are suggested as well as an "Add to Dictionary" option if the word is not incorporated in the installed dictionary and one is certain it is spelled/spelt correctly.

Hope this will enrich some members' posting experience :)

Online dictionaries:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/

http://www.dictionary.com/

https://www.urbandictionary.com/

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I don't get any red wavy lines or other prompts for mispelled words, grammar or anything. I always wished there was such a feature. Herve, where on earth is this?

I'm using Firefox on a desktop PC. In browser options, I have the 'spelling as you type' checked on - but this does not work for me on Avalon.

[Foxie Loxie]

Am thankful I had good English teachers!! As I told my children while they were in school....there is no reason NOT to get a 100% in "Spelling"!! :idea:

I DO notice red lines under words the program is not familiar with, like Morrisville! :laugh:

[wnlight]

We have an outdoor restaurant in Cuenca with the name ‘Goza’. Once I invited Bill Ryan to meet me there for lunch, but my spell checker substituted ‘Giza’ for ‘Goza’. Bill had great fun with that!

[Tam]

My Android smart phone doesn't show a squiggly line when mis-spelling but suggest German words.:idea:
Thus I prefer typing on my computer with English spell check in place.
But I always review my text.
Sometimes I catch a mistake after posting.

You can add multiple languages to your phone's keyboard, and switch to and from them using the space bar (press and hold, usually).

If you'd like, PM me with your phone details and I can walk you through it. It's a little different for each phone/OS.

[BMJ]

I have Windows 10 and Yandex browser and the spell check in enabled.

Also for words I do not use often I check the definitions before I post.

I also check sentence structures and paragraphs to make sure my post convey my message, is readable and to the point. Hence the numerous proof reads and edits before my final draft.

And below some further words of wisdom from the Treebeard @1.15minutes.

0-Yl6FmV6EE

[Hervé]

[...]
... I have the 'spelling as you type' checked on - but this does not work for me on Avalon.
OK, so, now, go down to the "Quick Reply" message/typing box at the bottom of the page; right-click within it and see if the "Check Spelling" option is activated/check-marked? When so, if you type and mispell a word in that box, that word should be underlined with a red wavy/squiggly line... like my misspelled "mispell" should be :)

If that doesn't work, then I have no clue as to what's happening with your setup... better check the Firefox "Help Support (https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-options-preferences-and-settings?as=u&utm_source=inproduct)" ---> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-do-i-use-firefox-spell-checker

[Bill Ryan]

We have an outdoor restaurant in Cuenca with the name ‘Goza’. Once I invited Bill Ryan to meet me there for lunch, but my spell checker substituted ‘Giza’ for ‘Goza’. Bill had great fun with that!

Yes, I loved the invitation to meet at Giza, but I had to reply that unfortunately it was just too short notice. :)

:focus:

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Thanks Herve, problem solved. Turns out I didn't have a dictionary installed into Firefox. All sorted now, many thanks!

[petra]

I think the red squiggly one must have some really weird rules!

dd gives me red squiggly

satan gets a red squiggly because he's supposed to have a capital S

boogeyman and bogeyman do NOT get a red squiggly, even if you add junk onto the end

EDIT: I was adding numbers as junk, numbers didn't affect spell check, which makes sense (duh lol). "bogeymang" fails. I learned something new too, I had no idea there were 2 spellings of boogeyman!

boogeymice DOES get a red squiggly, however

yo gives me red squiggly too. Yo is a word, yo!

Moral of the story? Don't trust the red squiggly

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Yes as far as corrections go I wouldn't call it awesome. When I mistype 'doesn;t' (I often hit semi-colon by mistake), my options to correct are does, doest, does n, but not doesn't. erk

[Matthew]

I see what you mean Petra about the red squiggle, it's not the voice of truth. Still a useful voice for me though since my spelling is so bad! Any kind of double check is welcome ...but far from perfect

There are rhymes I learnt at school like 'i' before 'e' except after 'c' but it doesn't always work. Weird

[Bill Ryan]

'i' before 'e' except after 'c' but it doesn't always work. Weird

That's very funny! :highfive:

[Catsquotl]

I know there are many people who appreciate correct spelling.
However in favor of conversation I personally think it is a shame that people will disregard posts or even de-value them based on spelling.
As humans most of us who know how to read are pftreecly capblae to read all kinds of mngaled words..

Instead of pointing the finger at those who should spell correctly, maybe, just maybe stop the grammar nazi's and ask the reader to make an effort to understand what the writer is trying to convey?
preferably have both make a little extra effort.

Just a thought

With Love
Eelco

[RunningDeer]

I see what you mean Petra about the red squiggle, it's not the voice of truth. Still a useful voice for me though since my spelling is so bad! Any kind of double check is welcome ...but far from perfect

There are rhymes I learnt at school like 'i' before 'e' except after 'c' but it doesn't always work. Weird

I remember phonics instruction: when the ‘c’ you spy, put the ‘e’ before the ‘I’. I still recite this rule.



http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Empower/phonics.jpg


http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/images/space-bar-grey.jpg





Phonics instruction teaches the connection between word sounds and written letters. It’s a key part of learning to read. But phonics instruction also teaches spelling patterns. For success in both reading and spelling see 14 Phonics Rules (https://www.understood.org/en/learning-attention-issues/child-learning-disabilities/reading-issues/14-phonics-rules-for-reading-and-spelling?view=slideview) for Reading and Spelling.

[greybeard]

I know there are many people who appreciate correct spelling.
However in favor of conversation I personally think it is a shame that people will disregard posts or even de-value them based on spelling.
As humans most of us who know how to read are pftreecly capblae to read all kinds of mngaled words..

Instead of pointing the finger at those who should spell correctly, maybe, just maybe stop the grammar nazi's and ask the reader to make an effort to understand what the writer is trying to convey?
preferably have both make a little extra effort.

Just a thought

With Love
Eelco


Im dyslexic Eelco
And I take this opportunity to apologize for miss spelling your name several times.

I agree with your post.
Not being able to spell is no reflection on intelligence--Winston Churchill to name but one was dyslexic.

Ch

[RunningDeer]

there is no reason NOT to get a 100% in "Spelling"!! :idea:

http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/write.gif I have to double-triple check transposing my letters, especially with particular words like 'Brian' and 'brain'. Sometimes, they look the same; particularly when I'm tried, I.. I mean tired. (see?)

I dreaded 3rd grade Spelling-Bee Fridays. Sister Mary Marie divided us into two teams and we’d stand on opposite sides of the classroom. If you misspelled you had to sit down. Which was added torture being a shy kid and stared at. I quickly learned by going to the end of the line it increased my odds of standing longer.

[RunningDeer]

Im dyslexic Eelco
And I take this opportunity to apologize for miss spelling your name several times.

I agree with your post.
Not being able to spell is no reflection on intelligence--Winston Churchill to name but one was dyslexic.

Ch

Many folks with learning disabilities are quite intelligent. Some have quirky brain wiring or some other causes can be from birth trauma, hereditary or emotional/physical abuse. They learn to compensate by drawing on and strengthening other areas, such as tactile, auditory, visual, rhythm, rote.

[Rawhide68]

I tend to use the wrong ´´´´s instead of the correct '''''s for some silly reason and then get the red squiggly line because due to that. Maybe it doesn´t or doesn't matter.

[RunningDeer]

ask the reader to make an effort to understand what the writer is trying to convey? preferably have both make a little extra effort.

Just a thought

With Love
Eelco

Good points, Eelco. Based on a couple of the comments I've received the last several of weeks, I've surmised that s/he either didn't carefully read the posts, or needs to strengthen inference and comprehension skills. It's also good to step back to see the greater scope the author intended rather than what you think it 'should' include, it 'should' be.

A double-triple check is always a good thing. http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/thumbs-2.gif

[Bill Ryan]

I know there are many people who appreciate correct spelling.
However in favor of conversation I personally think it is a shame that people will disregard posts or even de-value them based on spelling.
As humans most of us who know how to read are pftreecly capblae to read all kinds of mngaled words..

Instead of pointing the finger at those who should spell correctly, maybe, just maybe stop the grammar nazi's and ask the reader to make an effort to understand what the writer is trying to convey?
preferably have both make a little extra effort.

Just a thought

With Love
Eelco

Yes, to all of your points. And your post was [almost! :P] perfectly spelled.

But you made a subtle point yourself, for all of us, by example.

Maybe you were quite unaware of it. You wrote:
just maybe stop the grammar nazi'sDo you see what a nasty, unnecessary, little barbed remark that was, sitting in the middle of a very clever and well-presented post?

[Ascension]

Words have power. For instance heart and earth are the same word, an anagram of each other, conveying the same power. Their germatria value is the same even though their meaning at face value is different.

A person was recently unsubscribed, in part, for misspelling. The word was archetype. The word was misspelled as arkeytype, the phonetic sound of the word. However, I felt that since he/she spelled it correctly on at least one occasion as well as misspelled it on others, that it was done to intentionally bring attention to the fact that it contains the phonetic sound of ARK or ARC and KEY. I don't know for sure though.

[Catsquotl]

Maybe you were quite unaware of it. You wrote:
just maybe stop the grammar nazi'sDo you see what a nasty, unnecessary, little barbed remark that was, sitting in the middle of a very clever and well-presented post?

It wasn't intended as a nasty barbed remark.
In my household it's a common name for my wife and my mother in law who admit to their "unhealthy" need for spelling to be correct.
On the interweb I found that phrase used often in jest.

If it offended anyone, please feel free to remove it.

With Love
Eelco

[Bill Ryan]

A person was recently unsubscribed, in part, for misspelling. The word was archetype. The word was misspelled as arkeytype

This was Vernaianawa, as anyone can easily look up and see. (And yes, his spelling was very phonetic!)

But that's not why he was unsubscribed. Many of his words could have been perfectly spelled, but his posts still often made little sense.

The core problem was that he was unable to read his own posts from anyone else's viewpoint, and see that he was frequently REALLY hard to understand.

I'll say that again, because it's really worth stressing. Always read your posts from another person's point of view. Do that WHATEVER you're writing, even if you're leaving a note for your partner on the kitchen table.

Someone who is pathologically unable or unwilling to do that has a major problem, because they're locked inside themselves and can't get out to see themselves objectively.

[Bill Ryan]

Maybe you were quite unaware of it. You wrote:
just maybe stop the grammar nazi'sDo you see what a nasty, unnecessary, little barbed remark that was, sitting in the middle of a very clever and well-presented post?

It wasn't intended as a nasty barbed remark.
In my household it's a common name for my wife and my mother in law who admit to their "unhealthy" need for spelling to be correct.
On the interweb I found that phrase used often in jest.


Here's the analogy. Someone (maybe your wife or mother-in-law!) might really like a tidy kitchen, or attractive decorations in the house, and encourage you please to support that in lots of small ways.

They're not tidiness 'nazis' for that, not is it unhealthy. (In fact, unless it's obsessive, it might be just the opposite.)


If it offended anyone, please feel free to remove it. I'm not going to remove it, because the idea is firmly justified in your mind. :) Your post is just a representation of that.

* Note to all: this is NOT a trivial little quibble. There are some mighty important concepts being discussed here.

[RunningDeer]

A person was recently unsubscribed, in part, for misspelling. The word was archetype. The word was misspelled as arkeytype, the phonetic sound of the word.
One misspelled word wouldn't get someone kicked out. I can attest to that because I've made hundreds of spelling errors in the last six years. I still catch misspelled words and grammar in my old and not so old posts.
..................................................http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/rant.gif

[Catsquotl]

Another thing occurred to me just now. In conversation I feel it is helpful to ask whether ones assumptions about meaning match the intention send.
Asking for clarification may and will in most cases deepen understanding and clarity on any subject.

Anyway...
A quick google search reveals a lot of meme's and it's even explained in the Urban Dictionary..
I do see what you mean Bill.

From the Urban dictionary..

Grammar Nazi (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Grammar%20Nazi)
noun (pl. -s)
1. A person who uses proper grammar at all times, esp. online in emails, chatrooms, instant messages and webboard posts; a proponent of grammatical correctness. Often one who spells correctly as well.

2. a – A person who believes proper grammar (and spelling) should be used by everyone whenever possible. b – One who attempts to persuade or force others to use proper grammar and spelling. c – One who uses proper grammar and spelling to subtly mock or deride those who do not; an exhibitor of grammatical superiority. d – One who advocates linguistic clarity; an opponent of 1337-speak. e – One who corrects others' grammar; the spelling police.

proper noun
3. A nickname, pseudonym or handle for a well-known grammar nazi (defs. 1 and 2) within a particular social circle, used to show either great respect or great contempt for his or her abilities.

verb (transitive)
4. To correct the grammar of (a person's speech, a piece of writing, etc.); to edit for grammar and spelling; to proofread.
1. A grammar nazi knows the difference between "there," "their" and "they're."

2. Teh grammar nazis haev invadd r formu.

3. Grammar Nazi, help me with my English homework please.

4. He totally grammar nazied my article, replacing pronouns and rewriting clauses.
by Qaanol January 21, 2005

With Love
Eelco

[Praxis]

I do at least half of my Avalon'ing from work. So I do at least half of my Avalon'ing from my smart phone. As far as I know, all smart phones have some version of autocorrect. I have a Samsung S6, and if I misspell a word it will either:

A) Correct it automatically to the proper spelling

B) Turn the word into whatever word it determines I'm trying to spell, which isn't the word I intended.

C) Leave my word alone, but give me 2 other options that my misspelling may be attempting to represent, and a third option (a check mark) that confirms that my word is the way I want it if I select it.

When I'm on my laptop and I misspell a word on Avalon, the misspelling is underlined by a squiggly red line. It's not corrected automatically, but it lets me know a correction is required.

My question for the forum:
While posting, is everybody getting some sort of prompt when a spelling error occurs?

I'm very curious.

I took off the autocorrect on my smartphone, it would mix French and English, while typing in English it would presume it is a French word and vice versa. You would not believe the weird texts some recipients received.

On my computer, In installed Grammarly for English, sometimes it works, sometimes it just show nothing, I do not know why. Maybe it is mixed up in between languages again???

You might want to research grammarly. I can not recall but recently I heard something not good about them. Like all your data is kept by them kind of deal. I really dont remembering the specifics and maybe I am talking out my ass. But really check into them and what information they store about you.

[Catsquotl]

If it offended anyone, please feel free to remove it. I'm not going to remove it, because the idea is firmly justified in your mind. :) Your post is just a representation of that.

* Note to all: this is NOT a trivial little quibble. There are some mighty important concepts being discussed here.

I agree.
Because of that and because I enjoy and value some of the people who may have been taken aback by me using the term.
I am going to ask for a clarification in why you felt it needed pointing out.

At the same time I'll try to show what happens in my mind when pointed out like this.

Using the term grammar nazi as I did comes from a place of perceived harmlessness as I do use the term often in jest.
Below the surface of by conscious awareness I did feel the need to push back a little in a thread about the use of proper grammar to
a) Hide my own insecurities when it comes to english spelling and grammar.
b) felt a need to speak up for those that feel they couldn't or wouldn't speak up, but maybe feel cornered because their skill in writing may be for whatever reason be below the standards discussed.
In my case I cannot and won't learn the proper use for their, there and the're, because I assume the reader will understand what I mean without expecting me to learn better English.

From that the term as used inside a post might have been received as "hurtful" something I could have been aware of taking the time to re-read my post for the feel instead of just the spelling.
This is what I get from this quibble.

Question is.. Is that what you intended?

With Love
Eelco

[DeDukshyn]

... <trim> ... but his posts still often made little sense.

The core problem was that he was unable to read his own posts from anyone else's viewpoint, and see that he was frequently REALLY hard to understand.

I'll say that again, because it's really worth stressing. Always read your posts from another person's point of view. Do that WHATEVER you're writing, even if you're leaving a note for your partner on the kitchen table.

Someone who is pathologically unable or unwilling to do that has a major problem, because they're locked inside themselves and can't get out to see themselves objectively.


Hear! Hear! (to use correct grammar that most get wrong :))

"The greatest fallacy of communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - quote by some person, (I can't recall all the people I quote).

But this is so true - communication is not a one way affair, a message has to be received as the messenger intended, or its only partial communication at best, and often results in confusion. The messenger needs to take care in his presentation, or the value, accuracy and effectiveness of the communication may well become lost or distorted. So it behooves any 'presenter' of communication to do their best to ensure the intended audience receives it, as it was intended. Sometimes this takes a great deal of care and thought.

Goodness, I am always going back and editing my posts to ensure that my messages are not misconstrued, but in that same effort, I often resort to using more accurate, but lesser known words (which the stupid spellchecker always makes me second guess). Unfortunately, these can sometimes be lost on people with ESL. To help balance this I often present in metaphors or analogies. There's no perfect way, but it shows when people make that effort ... or none at all.

[RunningDeer]

Hear! Hear! (to use correct grammar that most get wrong :))

"The greatest fallacy of communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - quote by some person, (I can't recall all the people I quote).

But this is so true - communication is not a one way affair, a message has to be received as the messenger intended, or its only partial communication at best, and often results in confusion. The messenger needs to take care in his presentation, or the value, accuracy and effectiveness of the communication may well become lost or distorted. So it behooves any 'presenter' of communication to do their best to ensure the intended audience receives it, as it was intended. Sometimes this takes a great deal of care and thought.

Goodness, I am always going back and editing my posts to ensure that my messages are not misconstrued, but in that same effort, I often resort to using more accurate, but lesser known words (which the stupid spellchecker always makes me second guess). Unfortunately, these can sometimes be lost on people with ESL. To help balance this I often present in metaphors or analogies. There's no perfect way, but it shows when people make that effort ... or none at all.

George Bernard Shaw: 'The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.’

Metaphors and analogies are great for those of us who tend to learn and process visually. FYI: I’ve got a Mike folder.

I tend to keep my posts short and with a few main points. It takes me a good 20-45 minutes to write, rewrite, pare down, rewrite some more and even then, I’ll revisit and see where improvement could’ve been made. And in the end, I’ve been known to delete it.
............................................................http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/grrrrr.gif

On the rare occasion when someone asked what do you mean? To my way of thinking, I honestly couldn’t mean it any differently. I got nothin’ more. Nada. http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/noidea.gif

A few people have written that it’s a waste of data space when someone writes only a few lines. I choose a few lines over the novelettes with no paragraph breaks.

[Ascension]

I see both sides of this argument. The use of correct grammar, punctuation and presentation attracts a certain level of patronage.

On the other hand, censorship based on a lack of cohesiveness, grammar and punctuation prevents ideas from reaching a larger audience. I usually try to work through the information with all its faults to determine the value. My personal preference...to see it flawed rather than not see it all. Obviously, not the overwhelming majority.

In posting links to other videos, sometimes, lack of comment leaves room for personal interpretation, but certainly doesn't work for people who want a quick synopsis to help them determine if the topic is in their interest area.

It must be really difficult to make policy from a balanced perspective when the goals appear to be somewhat opposed.

[Debra]

A great thread, Mike :sun:

I am pretty blind to the red squiggly lines - I just talk back at them and say: yes yes, I will get back to you when I am finished. And I do because I like a clean page.

I am also haggling with auto correct on my phone, which is my primary device these days when I engage on the Forum and on social media but that is configured for Swedish and English — and really slows me down. Creating images with graphics and text overlays is actually more fun and easier I have found when using my phone. I am app happy, so to speak.

If I may add into the commentary that has unfolded on this thread, I would like to say that I like standards but the ones that I generally obey are the standards that I create for myself. This goes with communication and how I choose to do it.

However, I also will give respect to standards practiced by others. And yes, I do get triggered by some repeated use/and misuse of spelling and especially when it just confuses meaning.

So for these reasons, I always go over my text in a post, even after I publish it just to make sure that I have communicated what I have wanted to convey - but also to scan for any unconscious intent that I have communicated as well and which is fundamentally only going to cloud what readers think of what points I am trying to convey. I posit that they will be more likely caught up with how I am saying it - and not so much with what I am saying.

I think how we choose and structure words and how we spell them should be honoured as important currency between us all. Because we do read between the lines and content is in form as well as form is in content, it is useful to check in with yourself to be conscious about this.

Although never diagnosed, I believe that I have mild dyslexia. I sensed it very early on and I struggled with it but I was determined to push through and practice as a writer so I could be a clearer communicator. As I persevered, I found that aspects of grammar and spelling were quite powerful and impactful tools to have to help me make meaning - for myself first - but importantly for others as well.

I don’t take language lightly. Ever.

[Hym]

Thanks for the thread, Mike.

What a strange language English is, with so many varied rules and clues from a variety of languages and their unique, syntax variations.

The depth of this forum has prompted me to write for the first time on a public forum and in doing so, with any care about the message shared, necessitates rechecking how I spell. I also often revise what I've written, but my spell check is looking in a dictionary for the correct spelling, a habit which helps me retain that sometimes nonsensical, yet commonly accepted, spelling. I have a great appreciation for the forum presenting the opportunity to express and to learn far beyond what I thought, in years past, would ever be possible.

Gotta give a lot of props for a forum with as much worth and quality, insight and diversity as this one has. It is just that attention to the craft of word-smything that has inspired many here to step up their writing and share, to prompt discussions, and to learn with a higher level of discernment. At the same time I am well aware that we speak with some who have varying levels of proficiency in English, so, at times, I foreshorten my writing to accommodate their level of understanding, without being condescending or insulting. (I do my best to share my insulting language with those who have worked very hard to deserve it.)

I also see in the language how it has been used to manipulate understanding and refocus awareness. In this vein I choose to mis-spell words in order to prompt others to see those things I see and feel, those words and their arrangements that are used to alter their original intent for dishonest purposes. Either way, I most often overlook misspelling and look for the intent within the writing.

When we see such a garbled communication, as in those that prompted a forum member's dismissal, it may, at times, be a sign of a physical or neural/chemical anomaly within the brain, something in need of discovery.

Paula's brevity is the mark of mastery, just like the acupuncturist who uses very few needles, knowing full well that the healing lives primarily in their presence, where the interaction is already taking place and many pictures have already been taken by the mind's inner eye.

Like Paula and others I do step back and consider if those things I have written have purpose and validity, be they serious or not, and I have also chosen not to post some things that might have just been an exercise in expression and saving some things for another appropriate time.

[RunningDeer]

Paula's brevity is the mark of mastery, just like the acupuncturist who uses very few needles, knowing full well that the healing lives primarily in their presence, where the interaction is already taking place and many pictures have already have been taken by the mind's inner eye.
That’s kind of you to say, Hym. Thank you. My brevity is a projection of my own short attention span. http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/belly-laugh.gif

♡

[Hym]

Proof of mastery:

"A projection of my own short attention span".... one who sees the truth in it's beautiful and complex simplicity, wasting no time embellishing the obvious.

Many pictures are worth more than a thousand words, each... and are often Posted here by a Running Dear.

[Mike]

On the other hand, censorship based on a lack of cohesiveness, grammar and punctuation prevents ideas from reaching a larger audience.

I might say that a lack of cohesiveness, grammar and punctuation prevents ideas from reaching a larger audience all on their own.:) In a way, it is its own censor

I admire you for working your way through sloppy posts. I can forgive some sloppiness if the post is broken up into reasonablely sized paragraphs - that goes a long way with me! But if I see a giant block of uninterrupted text, forget it. And this brings up another topic: presentation. Paragraph breaks, bold lettering, underlined text and a splash of color go a long way. I'm trying to do a little of that recently, and it's actually kinda fun!

Your post was well written and thoughtful. Easy and pleasant to read. I notice you have only 75 posts since 2011. Please post more!:)

[Lifebringer]

Yes, and then I hit edit after it's posted, sometimes put the reason for the repost like Misspelling and then correct it. I have one now on "repost" but it doesn't give me "fifty-leven" options. LOL Smart phones aren't so smart, just sneaky and nosey.

[Lifebringer]

Hahaha. I still use that one today. In fact just yesterday. My Charlie Brown years came back to me.

[Foxie Loxie]

Sorry if I offended anyone with my "spelling" remark; that was not my intention. :sun:

[RunningDeer]

Sorry if I offended anyone with my "spelling" remark; that was not my intention. :sun:

Lady Loxie, you didn’t upset me. Not even a teeny-tiny. http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/come-in-hug.gif You are of pure heart. In fact, thank you for opening a door that allowed me to get out what I’ve been holding in for the last several weeks. The same goes for Mike and Bill’s threads.

You’re fortunate to be able to put pen to paper with ease. On average, I consult the dictionary five times a day. Some of us expend a lot of time and energy on something that comes natural to many.

I take full ownership for the useless hypersensitivity*. And I admit, it does spill over to those that nitpick, use condescending sarcasm or patronizing tones towards others on the forum. For that, I have zero tolerance. Their narcissist a$$ would be tossed off the forum tout suite. They are fortunate that Bill and the mod have a higher threshold than I.
* useless hypersensitivity - residual effects of an ego filter that’s being worked on ATM. http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/drill.gif....http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/construction.gif

[petra]

Gotta give a lot of props for a forum with as much worth and quality, insight and diversity as this one has. It is just that attention to the craft of word-smything that has inspired many here to step up their writing and share, to prompt discussions, and to learn with a higher level of discernment. At the same time I am well aware that we speak with some who have varying levels of proficiency in English, so, at times, I foreshorten my writing to accommodate their level of understanding, without being condescending or insulting. (I do my best to share my insulting language with those who have worked very hard to deserve it.)

Yes indeed. I have tried and failed using other forums, but I think this one is worth the effort, mainly due to the excellent moderation. The people matter too of course, but without good moderation, forums tend to turn into weapons.

I laughed a lot (maybe too much) at your comment about sharing insulting language. That might just be extra-funny because of something that happened to me yesterday. I told someone that their online nick name was dumb. In my mind, I wasn't being mean. They deserve to know how dumb their name is ;-)

[Bill Ryan]

I laughed a lot (maybe too much) at your comment about sharing insulting language.


I do my best to share my insulting language with those who have worked very hard to deserve it.

Yes! That was worthy of Mark Twain. :bigsmile: :star:

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I think how we choose and structure words and how we spell them should be honoured as important currency between us all. Because we do read between the lines and content is in form as well as form is in content, it is useful to check in with yourself to be conscious about this.

Great post Debra, and may I say your English - I'm assuming Swedish is your first language - is excellent. In fact, I wish to express my deep admiration and appreciation of all those here who are not native English speakers. The quality, accuracy, and fluency is on the whole very high. Personally, I can only imagine what a challenge that is, especially given the complexity of the eclectic rules in English and a huge vocabulary to learn.

I try to be very mindful of this. Yes sometimes I might have to read a little closer to unravel the grammar and 'decipher' what a post means. I have no problem with that at all, and it's very much the exception rather than the rule. And even with those who are native English-speakers, I know that not everyone has the same command of it in writing. But with the tools at our disposal (eg, MS Word can check grammar as well as spelling), I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect (from the Anglophones) a certain amount of care and effort in presenting a post.

Long long ago, before the Interwebs, there used to be a thing called 'writing a letter'. A lost art, I'm afraid. I think the same amount of care should be taken writing on a public forum as writing a letter – at least in making it readable. Words are very important, as you said Debra. Words are Power. I might be led to believe that if a post is rushed for example, the text poorly structured, then so might be the train of thought in the argument trying to be expressed.

Yes, there might have been a number of strange or silly threads of late - they come and go - but I think on the whole Avalon is very healthy. There are so many thoughtful, funny, insightful, clever and exceptionally wise people on this board, that I think whatever difficulties arise, whatever choppy waters rock the boat, we'll carry on and be fine. Thanks to Bill and the fantastic mod team, we are in very safe hands!

[Hym]

Thanks Bill. That is an outlook I express in like terms when faced with adversity. It crosses the silly politically correct barriers in a fitting manner, though I often express it in more earthy tomes.

As a recent example, when faced with the truth that I had been blacklisted from a certain film construction crew, one that appreciated my work ethic with an early raise in position and pay-until I insisted my crew get safety masks, I told those that knew them that I insist upon their continual exclusion of me from being hired on their projects. My outlook was/is that the feeling is mutual and not hiring me is my preference. (It does sound better when I use colorful words, but the just gist is there.)

We all would gain so much by reading Mark Twain's works, his deep insights, his use of the language and his unmatched humor. This goes as well for Will Rogers. Both cut to the quick with the insight of angels and the disdain of demons.

[Bill Ryan]

I wish to express my deep admiration and appreciation of all those here who are not native English speakers.

Yes, truly. :star:

In fact — and I do hope everyone understands this quip! — I REALLY REALLY enjoy reading Flash's posts. (For newer members: Flash lives in Montreal, and French is her first language.) They're thoughtful and beautifully crafted, and sometimes very slightly quirky. :heart: Her heart and meaning invariably shine through brightly.

It's like listening to a lovely accent. If they suddenly became flawlessly perfect... I'd feel something was lost in translation.

:)

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Yes I heartily echo that, and wish I'd mentioned it. I'm a big fan of Flash too! I always make a point to read you :heart: The slightly-not-flawless English is a hallmark all your own - and this is not a gripe, just the opposite, I find it endearing and somehow very soothing to read.

[Foxie Loxie]

Mark Twain, Will Rogers & our own resident "Will Rogers"....JoefromtheCarolinas!! I find his videos delightful!! :sun:

[Hym]

Few understand, as many here do, that a slight tweak in the structural construct of things that are seemingly perfect, a misspelled word, a phrase presented in an unusual context, a slight juxtaposition of words... prompts the energetic impetus needed to convey the truth of an idea and instantly remove the stale fog of words that often confine our humanity and purpose. I applaud those who make my life richer, with their own words and their own unique being, sung in these written words.

As we are driven, walked, limousine'd or even wheeled into our communications with each other we strive to be heard or to prompt others to share those things that we value in the listening. I appreciate the classes, the mastery and the care we share in our thoughtful use of this valuable asset we call Avalon.

[Ewan]

Don't have any spell-checker on PC. Sometimes I make mistakes, usually caught on re-reading. If a word doesn't look right I can type it in search box and usually get the correct spelling, or find it was right and still doesn't look right. :)

They annoy me actually. :)


A spellchecker would come with the "program" one is typing with: it could either be some MS-word, Open Office, etc... or the browser one uses.



Now I get it, after reading this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102069-The-Silly-Season&p=1215887&viewfull=1#post1215887) regarding the need for precision and accuracy.

I off course meant that none of the programmes that employ an inbuilt spell-checker were enabled when I said I didn't have one on my computer. But I see how that can be misconstrued as an ignorant statement by a non-english speaker, and even a few English speakers. I will endeavour henceforth to be more precise and accurate.

:heart: you Hervé :)

[Catsquotl]

Sorry if I offended anyone with my "spelling" remark; that was not my intention. :sun:

No offence on my side either.
I disagree, but wasn't offended..:peace::kiss:

With Love
Eelco

[Bill Ryan]

http://projectavalon.net/off-course.gif



Off course, we also have to read what we wrote, after doing the spellcheck!

:p

:bigsmile:

[Ewan]

http://projectavalon.net/off-course.gif



Off course, we also have to read what we wrote, after doing the spellcheck!

:p

:bigsmile:

Damn it man, Bill!

:bigsmile:

[Wind]

I can forgive some sloppiness if the post is broken up into reasonablely sized paragraphs - that goes a long way with me! But if I see a giant block of uninterrupted text, forget it.

I definitely can agree with that. I think that minor spelling errors aren't that big of a deal if the posts otherwise are coherent enough, even though I tend to be a perfectionist and get a bit annoyed by sloppiness sometimes. Paragraphs help a lot, without them long messages are just painful and nearly impossible to read!

And when it comes to spelling errors, we all make them. I make them more when I'm tired, but I always try to edit my messages if I notice that I've made some mistakes. Many of us here don't have English even as our second language, but we just have taken the time to to understand the language to the best of our abilities. Part of thanks goes to our education system here in Scandinavia. Then again I've always found the English language quite fascinating and easy to use.

Text based communication is much different from verbal communication, sure it creates more room for misunderstandings, but I think it's still it's own unique beautiful way of communicating ideas and thoughts. As people have said here, words have power. We all leave our unique footprint with our messages, there's a different type of flavor to them and I think it's fascinating.

[Hervé]

Well, while Ewan is under the spotlight of a microscope lens and for the sake of precision and accuracy:


Posted by Ewan (here) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=1215582#post1215582)
Don't have any spell-checker on PC....
[...]
I see how that can be misconstrued as an ignorant statement by a non-english speakerMy point of contention is that the first quoted statement couldn't be construed any other way than as stated and therefore couldn't be misconstrued as inferred in that second quoted statement... doesn't matter whether the reader is English or non-English speaker unless it's an unusual dialect of an area that's being used.

Now, how about some punctuation so that "as an ignorant statement" can be correctly attributed?
Is it an ignorant statement by a non-English speaker?

Or is it a qualifier for the statement itself?
See, THAT can be terribly misconstrued :) and the launch pad for a flame war :bigsmile:

:heart: you too Ewan http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/smilies/0203%20Smiley%20with%20tongue%20out.gif

[Ewan]

Double damn!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9QlGcQEBr8o/SkdAwL-1xVI/AAAAAAAAABg/Ut1iNOwcpDY/s400/Inbred-Dimwit.png
I know what I meant.

So embarrassed here. :blushing:

The correct attribution is even more important isn't it..

..guess I'll have to double the endeavour also. :highfive:

[Flash]

Well, while Ewan is under the spotlight of a microscope lens and for the sake of precision and accuracy:


Posted by Ewan (here) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=1215582#post1215582)
Don't have any spell-checker on PC....
[...]
I see how that can be misconstrued as an ignorant statement by a non-english speakerMy point of contention is that the first quoted statement couldn't be construed any other way than as stated and therefore couldn't be misconstrued as inferred in that second quoted statement... doesn't matter whether the reader is English or non-English speaker unless it's an unusual dialect of an area that's being used.

Now, how about some punctuation so that "as an ignorant statement" can be correctly attributed?
Is it an ignorant statement by a non-English speaker?

Or is it a qualifier for the statement itself?
See, THAT can be terribly misconstrued :) and the launch pad for a flame war :bigsmile:

:heart: you too Ewan http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/smilies/0203%20Smiley%20with%20tongue%20out.gif

ok you lost me guys, Hervé, I am jealous of your mastering of the English Language and French as well.

Numérobis : Je viens Madame vous demander une accordance. C'est-à-dire de m'accordifier toute l'aidance. Mais l'aidance du verbe aider, hein.

ou

Numérobis : Et le mec, il lui dit c'est le phare à "On", parce qu'il s'appelle "On", le mec… Le mec, il s'appelle "On", et "On" il a un phare, c'est son appartenance. Il lui dit c'est le phare à "On" !… Le mec ! Il s'appelle "On" ! Il lui dit c'est son phare ! Et bah le Pharaon ! Qui est comme le chef de nous !

Bonne journée à tous!

[Flash]

I wish to express my deep admiration and appreciation of all those here who are not native English speakers.

Yes, truly. :star:

In fact — and I do hope everyone understands this quip! — I REALLY REALLY enjoy reading Flash's posts. (For newer members: Flash lives in Montreal, and French is her first language.) They're thoughtful and beautifully crafted, and sometimes very slightly quirky. :heart: Her heart and meaning invariably shine through brightly.

It's like listening to a lovely accent. If they suddenly became flawlessly perfect... I'd feel something was lost in translation.

:)

Many many thanks for your post. Even though I had to look up "quirky" in the dictionary lolll. I did not know I had any impact or was crafting my posts in a nice manner, I just write what i think/feel, trying to convey it properly and to understand/feel my co-avalonians as well.

to tell the truth, I like the forum and I like to have people from many places worldwide on it.

And thanks again, even though I just blasted Joe from the Carolinas, in the Silly season thread, on second/third languages difficulties and incomprehension from Americans on the difficulties it entails. Makes me feel somewhat guilty :sorry:

[petra]

Hi All, i just logged in so i could thank some people on this thread. What a great thread. Also i must say...... i do not know how the heck Mike uses PA on his phone. I have never tried the forum from a phone before, and i have 4 words for it.. “next to near impossible” 😀