The dark legacy of star music conductor James Levine

[Cardillac]

Hi all-

the only reason I chose to post this thread is because of my own personal experiences with James Levine; I won't go into detail (won't want to make you vomit) but I can assure you due to my education as a professional musician (opera singer) and my twice dealings with this man (ogre) nothing in this report is an exaggeration- it probably doesn't even scratch the surface-

just goes to prove to us that because a person (regardless of profession) has decades of good press in the MSM and has thank's to MSM an extremely good public image doesn't have a dark side-

James Levine was always been an exceptionally brilliant musician but used/misused his power to satisfy his own personal desires at the expense of everyone else- due to my own personal experiences with this man (won't go into detail but dove-tails with report) he is a major psychopath-

here's the link:


http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/03/02/cleveland/cn2Sathz0EMJcdpYouoPjM/story.html?p1=Article_Inline_Bottom

please be well all-

Larry

[Foxie Loxie]

Wow! Truth is breaking out all over!! :boom:

[Cardillac]

@Foxie

ohh, Baby, if you even knew what I had to do to be rid of Levine but keep some semblance of a career going- took a long time- this man was pure poison unless you fitted "into his concept"- it took me many yrs. to break out of his "concept" but I managed to survive albeit with many wounds due to his influence- this man was the devil incarnate-

Larry

[Sunny-side-up]

Waiting for the link to connect.

So sorry to hear you have had a bad, bad time but very glad to hear your through it now :sun:

[Sunny-side-up]

"nothing in this report is an exaggeration- it probably doesn't even scratch the surface-"

Simile, slimy psychopathic evil creature

So good to know your out from his influences now.

Love Alan

[Franny]

Horrible, I'm glad you no longer have to associate with him. What a terrible position to be in.

I remember reading about it many years ago but I'm unsure about the details. I seem to recall that there was a younger boy involved somewhere? Anyway, I was speaking to a friend that is a huge opera fanatic, we have been to many wonderful opera productions together, and James Levine and his blemished past came up. We spoke about it briefly but he rather quickly brushed it off and changed the subject. It was just too uncomfortable.

James Levine is too wonderful at what he does so many look the other way but now it seems to be changing for him.

[Caliban]

So sorry you had to go through that Larry, especially as a budding musical artist who was probably just looking to get a foot in and find a mentor.

Levine sounds like a real creep, and a predator upon young boys and men. The worst part - if there can be a worst part of this story - is that the Metropolitan Opera swept these reports under the rug for many years. If you look at the NY Times online articles and read the comments, you see that everyone in the field knew about his repellant behavior. But since he was so good at the music--and put behinds in the seats and donations in the coffers--they turned a blind eye. And now he's got the gall to sue them!!

The Met will look very bad from this for a long time, deservedly so.

[Bluegreen]

Can one separate the art from the artist or no?

[Cardillac]

@Bluegreen

Hi!

I've been asking myself your question for yrs.- am not yet sure if I have a decent answer- am still mulling it over-

but I probably think it's a yes or no thing depending on the individual artist and type of art-

the reason for my Avalon name is because of the P. Hindemith operatic thriller(well sort of)/allegory "Cardillac" in which he (goldsmith/jeweler) cannot stand to part from his sold creations (a lot of sung philosophizing in this piece) because he feels he has sold parts of his soul and ends up murdering everyone who bought his creations so he can reposess them/parts of his soul-

but at the end he's discovered as the perpetrator (could we have guessed?) and subsequently "throttled" by the angry mob (could we have guessed?)- all of this accompanied by a lot of loud music, of course :-)))

stay well!

Larry :-)

[Kryztian]

Wow! I knew that in the 1980's and after, James Levine had a lot of "kept" men, but had no idea that he was such a megalomaniac and manipulator - sounds like he could have lured his cult followers out into the woods and gotten them to drink the cyanide cool aid if that's what he wanted.

As a church musician, I direct solo singers and choirs and I must say it can be a bit of a power trip. You control the singers mind and totally control one of their most basic body functions, breathing. A simple word or a small wave of the hand, and they are completely given up to you. You thoroughly exasperate them and then you tell the a joke and make them laugh hysterically. (When you are in a state of confusion and exasperation, which is often necessary when you are trying to get to the next level, even a really bad joke, you really need to laugh as a release). This all creates a deep psychic bond. I sometimes feel that there is a bond between me and my 75-year old Methodist church ladies that is deeper than any sexual bond I've experienced.

So to do this, one must constantly keep ones ego in check. You have to constantly ask yourself what are you getting out of it and what are the singers getting? You not only want to see them become better performers, but you want to see them getting personal satisfaction out of it, and the satisfaction should come not only from their improved performance, but also because they enjoyed the process of getting there. And whether or not you are doing this in a church or other environment, it should deepen their faith - faith in a meaningful world that can become more beautiful, just, and meaningful because of their right participation in it.

But when you have a narcissistic megalomaniac like Levine at the helm, results can be quite different. For any one who has children in their teens or twenties, these people need to be made aware that there are people out there like Jimmy Levine who say they want to become their mentors, but are really tormentors. Here are impressionable people who want to excel and become better artists, performers, athletes and academics, and they put themselves into the hands of people who ultimately turn out to be abusive cult leaders.

[Cardillac]

@Kryztian

many thanks for your very detailed response and great insights- very appreciated-

yes, I couldn't agree with you more-

it's also comforting to me that I'm not the only one on this forum who deals with "classical" music (whew!)-

please continue to be well!-

Larry

[Valerie Villars]

Can one separate the art from the artist or no?

Having had a glimpse of the very dark side of music, I have been pondering this question for about four years. What have I decided? I don't know. The most I can come up with is how the music makes me feel and whether it uplifts me or pulls me down. It's a very interesting question.

There was a movie, I believe on HBO which I saw about four years ago, about a psychopathic, but brilliant as they often are, jazz teacher at a prestigious school. His methods were cruel, mind fu(*ing exercises in manipulation. I watched that movie several times with horror and my ultimate conclusion was that the end result did NOT justify the means.

[Caliban]

Can one separate the art from the artist or no?

Having had a glimpse of the very dark side of music, I have been pondering this question for about four years. What have I decided? I don't know. The most I can come up with is how the music makes me feel and whether it uplifts me or pulls me down. It's a very interesting question.

There was a movie, I believe on HBO which I saw about four years ago, about a psychopathic, but brilliant as they often are, jazz teacher at a prestigious school. His methods were cruel, mind fu(*ing exercises in manipulation. I watched that movie several times with horror and my ultimate conclusion was that the end result did NOT justify the means.

From afar, I suppose it depends on one's individual sense of ethics. Miles Davis could be pretty vicious at times and did some nasty things but he could also be a guiding light to fellow musicians and even in a sense, a mentor. I never heard about him "preying" on anyone a la Levine or his like. He was also rising up in the thick of the civil rights struggles so that was all mixed in. For me, I can listen to and love his music while reconciling that he wasn't a saint and maybe we wouldn't be pals.

From close up, it's a different story. A lot of people let themselves be victimized to advance their careers--they think they can't advance without being preyed upon. If enough young people were taught that they won't and cannot be touched or pursued in ways they disagree with, things would change. These slugs would crawl away. In the theater field, acting teachers are well known for, if not sexual misbehavior, than the rampant manipulation of a student's emotions. Since it's acting and emotions are the tools of the trade, who's to say they've "gone over the line." So many of these teachers are frustrated and screwed up and have monstrous egos. It's sussing out the intention of these so-called teachers that will clarify it for these young people. They need to be taught that compromising their integrity will eventually catch up with them, at the least in terms of emotional wreckage.

[Bluegreen]

Can one separate the art from the artist or no?

... The most I can come up with is how the music makes me feel and whether it uplifts me or pulls me down.

In other words yes?


... in which he (goldsmith/jeweler) cannot stand to part from his sold creations (a lot of sung philosophizing in this piece) because he feels he has sold parts of his soul and ends up murdering everyone who bought his creations so he can reposess them/parts of his soul-

In other words no?

:confused:

[Valerie Villars]

Good catch, Bluegreen. The answer for me is yes. I have no idea what the personal lives or personalities of most musicians is and therefore it has to be separated for me.

[Cardillac]

@Valerie @Caliban @Bluegreen

many thanks for your in-puts- very appreciated-

but I think one needs to be an insider (like a life's work getting paid for being a performing artist) in order to understand the music/stage world profoundly and not on a surface level; I've been in the underbelly of the music/theater profession for decades so I have a different perspective than those who observe presented artistry (listener/visual observer) on a superficial level-

as has been attributed to Shakespeare (THAT topic is another subject): "life is a stage"-

we performing artists present an illusion (has always bothered me) that can imitate reality but isn't reality- we performing artists are looked at (thanks to our payers) as nothing more than a commodity to be bought and sold to the general public; I used to think in my 'stoopid' mispend youth that "great art" will win at the end of the day; that's how naive and street 'stoopid' I was in my youth (understatement); at the end of the day it's exclusively commercialism and how to dupe/influence the public- I was a pawn-

I learned this, sadly, much too late in life; we artists all serve a dubious agenda and the James Levine saga, albeit very sinister, I think just only scratches the surface of what else is out there influencing the public's perception of music and theater in all of it's forms-

please continue to be well all-

Larry

[Foxie Loxie]

Very well put, Larry! :highfive: It seems the entirety of "life" is an ILLUSION! You spent your life in one "illusion" & I spent my entire life in another "illusion" that, to this day, contains millions within its grasp. :gaah: What can one do? I guess people like David Icke are trying to awaken the public.

You were "inside" your Illusion as I was "inside" my own Illusion! :noidea:

[Valerie Villars]

Thanks Larry. I remember having a very similar epiphany about rock n roll; that nothing was as it appears and it kind of freaked me out for a while.

We have similar viewpoints although I thought at the end of the day, truth and goodness was what was valued in life. I was stunned to realize that the opposite is what is behind the ruling scenes.

In a sense, art does win at the end of the day, because you cared to make it and sacrifice for it. The same holds true for life in general.

Peace.