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ThePythonicCow
25th April 2018, 10:37
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Dmitri Orlov has an absolutely brilliant article on The Decline and Fall of the American Military/Naval Empire (http://cluborlov.com/#5194803293085752641).

He initially posted this article behind the paywall on his site, but the article went viral, so he has now re-posted it on the free side of his site.

Whereas many of my threads over the past few years have focused on the Decline and Fall of the American Financial Empire, Dimitri observes that we may have just witnessed a key event marking the end of centuries of Naval dominance of the world by the ships of various European and North American nations, from Italy, Spain, Holland, France, England to the United States.

I should quit babbling and allow Dimitri's words to speak for themselves:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thursday, April 19, 2018

End of the Era of Naval Empires


[ Since last Thursday, this article has gone viral on Russia Insider (https://russia-insider.com/en/russian-missile-tech-has-made-americas-trillion-dollar-navy-obsolete/ri23242) and beyond (1 (http://www.tlaxcala-int.org/article.asp?reference=23239), 2 (http://www.tlaxcala-int.org/article.asp?reference=23238)). Apparently, many people think that my spelling out the end of US global military superiority is significant. Based on this robust response, I decided to release it from behind the firewall. ]
For the past 500 years European nations—Portugal, the Netherlands, Spain, Britain, France and, briefly, Germany—were able to plunder much of the planet by projecting their naval power overseas. Since much of the world’s population lives along the coasts, and much of it trades over water, armed ships that arrived suddenly out of nowhere were able to put local populations at their mercy. The armadas could plunder, impose tribute, punish the disobedient, and then use that plunder and tribute to build more ships, enlarging the scope of their naval empires. This allowed a small region with few natural resources and few native advantages beyond extreme belligerence and bloodlust and a wealth of communicable diseases to dominate the globe for half a millennium.

The ultimate inheritor of this naval imperial project is the United States, which, with the new addition of air power, and with its large aircraft carrier fleet and huge network of military bases throughout the planet, is supposedly able to impose Pax Americana on the entire world. Or, rather, was able to do so—during the brief period between the collapse of the USSR and the emergence of Russia and China as new global powers and their development of new anti-ship and antiaircraft technologies. But now this imperial project is at an end.

Prior to the Soviet collapse, the US military generally did not dare to directly threaten those countries to which the USSR had extended its protection. Nevertheless, by using its naval power to dominate the sea lanes that carried crude oil, and by insisting that oil be traded in US dollars, it was able to live beyond its means by issuing dollar-denominated debt instruments and forcing countries around the world to invest in them. It imported whatever it wanted using borrowed money while exporting inflation, expropriating the savings of people across the world. In the process, the US has accumulated absolutely stunning levels of national debt—beyond anything seen before in either absolute or relative terms. When this debt bomb finally explodes, it will spread economic devastation far beyond US borders. And it will explode, once the petrodollar wealth pump, imposed on the world through American naval and air superiority, stops working.

New missile technology has made a naval empire cheap to defeat. Previously, to fight a naval battle, one had to have ships that outmatched those of the enemy in their speed and artillery power. The Spanish Armada was sunk by the British armada. More recently, this meant that only those countries whose industrial might matched that of the United States could ever dream of opposing it militarily. But this has now changed: Russia’s new missiles can be launched from thousands of kilometers away, are unstoppable, and it takes just one to sink a destroyer and just two to sink an aircraft carrier. The American armada can now be sunk without having an armada of one’s own. The relative sizes of American and Russian economies or defense budgets are irrelevant: the Russians can build more hypersonic missiles much more quickly and cheaply than the Americans would be able to build more aircraft carriers.

Equally significant is the development of new Russian air defense capabilities: the S-300 and S-400 systems, which can essentially seal off a country’s airspace. Wherever these systems are deployed, such as in Syria, US forces are now forced to stay out of their range. With its naval and air superiority rapidly evaporating, all that the US can fall back on militarily is the use of large expeditionary forces—an option that is politically unpalatable and has proven to be ineffective in Iraq and Afghanistan. There is also the nuclear option, and while the US nuclear arsenal is not likely to be neutralized any time soon, nuclear weapons are only useful as deterrents. Their special value is in preventing wars from escalating beyond a certain point, but that point lies beyond the elimination of US global naval and air dominance. Nuclear weapons are much worse than useless in augmenting one’s aggressive behavior against a nuclear-armed opponent; invariably, it would be a suicidal move. What the US now faces is essentially a financial problem of unrepayable debt and a failing wealth pump, and it should be a stunningly obvious point that setting off nuclear explosions anywhere in the world would not fix the problems of an empire going broke.

Events that signal vast, epochal changes in the world often appear minor when viewed in isolation. Julius Caesar’s crossing of the Rubicon was just one river crossing; Soviet and American troops meeting and fraternizing at the Elbe was, relatively speaking, a minor event—nowhere near the scale of the siege of Leningrad, the battle of Stalingrad or the fall of Berlin. Yet they signaled a tectonic shift in the historical landscape. And perhaps we have just witnessed something similar with the recent pathetically tiny Battle of East Gouta in Syria, where the US used a make-believe chemical weapons incident as a pretense to launch an equally make-believe attack on some airfields and buildings in Syria. The US foreign policy establishment wanted to show that it still matters and has a role to play, but what really happened was that US naval and air power were demonstrated to be almost entirely beside the point.

Of course, all of this is terrible news to the US military and foreign policy establishments, as well as to the many US Congressmen in whose districts military contractors operate or military bases are situated. Obviously, this is also bad news for the defense contractors, for personnel at the military bases, and for many others as well. It is also simply awful news economically, since defense spending is about the only effective means of economic stimulus of which the US government is politically capable. Obama’s “shovel-ready jobs,” if you recall, did nothing to forestall the dramatic slide in the labor participation rate, which is a euphemism for the inverse of the real unemployment rate. There is also the wonderful plan to throw lots of money at Elon Musk’s SpaceX (while continuing to buy vitally important rocket engines from the Russians—who are currently discussing blocking their export to the US in retaliation for more US sanctions). In short, take away the defense stimulus, and the US economy will make a loud popping sound followed by a gradually diminishing hissing noise.

Needless to say, all those involved will do their best to deny or hide for as long as possible the fact that the US foreign policy and defense establishments have now been neutralized. My prediction is that America’s naval and air empire will not fail because it will be defeated militarily, nor will it be dismantled once the news sinks in that it is useless; instead, it will be forced to curtail its operations due to lack of funds. There may still be a few loud bangs before it gives up, but mostly what we will hear is a whole lot of whimpering. That’s how the USSR went; that’s how the USA will go too.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ThePythonicCow
25th April 2018, 10:50
The American Empire is/was a complex beast that stood on several foundations, including financial and monetary engineering, military (land, sea, air and nuclear) dominance, (once upon a time) industrial might, drug trafficking, human trafficking, energy dominance (including control of the largest OPEC petroleum exporters), and "intelligence" (intrigue, bribery, murder, genocide, and revolutions.)

One by one, those foundations are crumbling, or have already crumbled.

As Dimitri Orlov notes in the above article, with "the recent pathetically tiny Battle of East Gouta in Syria," we may have observed the signature event marking the end of American naval and aerial military dominance.

Not only is the American Empire in its final collapse; the series of empires going back many centuries, each in turn relying on having the strongest Naval forces, and the financial, manufacturing and energy resources supporting those Naval forces, is coming to an end.

Cara
25th April 2018, 12:28
Some further thinkers to consider who have been speaking on this topic for some years:

1. Johan Galtung, Norwegian academic and founder of Transcend International and founder of peace studies institute.

In 2009, he published “The Fall of the US Empire - And Then What?”
https://www.transcend.org/tup/img/FallUS.jpg

THE FALL OF THE US EMPIRE - AND THEN WHAT? Successors, Regionalization or Globalization? US Fascism or US Blossoming? This book explores a global phenomenon now taking place for the eyes of the world: The Fall of the US Empire. Nothing extraordinary about that, all empires so far have had life cycles, and the US Empire is no exception. In no way should that be confused with any fall of the USA; just to the contrary, the fall of the US Empire may lead to the blossoming of the US Republic. And in no way should the book be seen as "anti-American"; just to the contrary. Part I, The Present, explores the why, what, how, when and where of the present decline and fall of the US Empire, based on a theory used in 1980 to predict the fall of the Soviet empire. Part II, The Future, And Then What? explores the world as a whole with three global scenarios, successors, regionalization or globalization, mainly the latter, and the US Republic with two domestic scenarios, US fascism and US blossoming, mainly the latter. Part III, The Past, is dedicated to a study from 1979 comparing the Western Roman Empire processes with Western imperialism millennia later.
From here: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9406465-the-fall-of-the-us-empire---and-then-what

He delineates between the US empire and the US state and predicted the end of the empire rather than the end of the US as a state.

There are a few interviews with him on YouTube but I don’t think any are particularly good. I prefer reading the articles on the website of the peace institute he founded: https://www.transcend.org/tms/category/editorial/

2. Cultural historian Morris Berman has been predicting and chronicaling the decline of the US since 2000. He has written a trilogy of books on this:

Twilight of American Culture: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29399.The_Twilight_of_American_Culture?from_search=true
Dark Ages America: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/245673.Dark_Ages_America?from_search=true
Why America Failed: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11913365-why-america-failed?from_search=true


His analysis is a cultural one and his arguments are fairly philosophical and nuanced. Due to their being unyielding and negative (i.e. he does not see any hope for a turn around), I would imagine they are quite difficult for some to hear. Also, he is blunt and direct about US culture with no politically correct niceties - I am sure his views could trigger some people.

There are several interviews of him on YouTube, most are long. Here is one where he talks about his books and ideas, it’s rather long.
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Bill Ryan
25th April 2018, 12:51
A footnote that may be worthy of a comment from Paul — but I truly don't want to derail a thread of genuine historical/political interest and import.

It seems very probable that there exist highly advanced weapons systems that are still classified, maybe involving very advanced technology. Whether the 'regular' US military is in possession of these (or even knows about them!) is unknown. It's interesting that there may be no plan to publicly deploy any of these, or even let enemy groups and states know that they exist. They may remain classified for decades or longer.

It's interesting to ponder the value of a weapon that an enemy may have no idea about, considering that much of the value of weaponry on show is deterrence. This all suggests the possibility that this class of advanced weapons is intended for an entirely different theater than the global one.

TomKat
25th April 2018, 14:15
It seems very probable that there exist highly advanced weapons systems that are still classified, maybe involving very advanced technology. Whether the 'regular' US military is in possession of these (or even knows about them!) is unknown. It's interesting that there may be no plan to publicly deploy any of these, or even let enemy groups and states know that they exist. They may remain classified for decades or longer.


I can't find it, but during the second Iraq War I remember Colin Powell saying that the weapons the US were using were obsolete.

ThePythonicCow
25th April 2018, 14:48
A footnote that may be worthy of a comment from Paul — but I truly don't want to derail a thread of genuine historical/political interest and import.
I have more tolerance for potentially off topic or dissenting comments than do some, but less tolerance for confusion, bogus rhetoric or disinformation than do some.

Clear and coherent comments such as this are a delight to my eyes :).


It seems very probable that there exist highly advanced weapons systems that are still classified ...

It's interesting to ponder the value of a weapon that an enemy may have no idea about, considering that much of the value of weaponry on show is deterrence. This all suggests the possibility that this class of advanced weapons is intended for an entirely different theater than the global one.
My gut sense is that the sequence of Imperial Empires that we have seen march across our history for at least the last several hundred years is rather like the series of political parties (say Conservative and Labour in the UK, or Republicans and Democrats in the US) that we see march across the history of many such organized national governments.

Each of these layers, empires or parties, is quite engaging, but neither is a top layer. I'm not even sure there is a top layer.

I would suspect that the essential control and development of highly advanced technologies, whether used as weapons or more constructively, lies in some layer higher than that occupied by the national governments of the US (or the UK, Russia, China, ...).

Once sufficient control of the individual nations is assured, then more advanced technology and the underlying physics can be allowed to become more visible. There will no longer be a grave risk of these more advanced tools being used to destroy Earth or Human Civilization; rather they can be used to advance the larger agendas of those in these more powerful layers.

The end of the many centuries long series of Imperial Empires, based on the use of force, technology, and finances to control other nations and peoples, will mark the transition to a time of seemingly more cooperative nations, each culturally and geographically distinct, but each quietly subservient to a common higher authority.

Unfortunately, my (pessimistic, paranoid?) sense is that the global surveillance and control network required for this will be, in deep and subtle ways, oppressive and pervasive, and that there will "need" to be a flaming disaster of "Biblical" proportions, to mark this transition and to justify the changes.

justntime2learn
25th April 2018, 14:53
I may be wrong, but I think Colin Powell was referring to the bombs before being fitted with guidance fins.

shaberon
25th April 2018, 16:36
I don't know much about secret weapons, but on the conventional level, yes, the "carrier group" has been obsolete for years. The U. S. cannot really provoke actual war in the mid-East, because any navy around there, and the approximately 35 land bases, will be dust in a few minutes. Same is true for pretty much the whole country of Israel. They know this but don't like to admit it.

I like the point about the "series of empires". Persia who had their own series, stopped attacking others about 200 years ago--but modern Iran is supposed to be the culprit??

And I hope it is true that it will simply run out of funds. About fifteen years ago when I first did the math on it, it was already impossible for the U. S. to get out of debt. Bearing in mind that a country cannot actually be bankrupted, it will be interesting to see how the various bubbles burst. Perhaps Elon Musk will buy the navy when every 401k you've ever heard of reads zero.

Cardillac
25th April 2018, 16:45
@Bill

"It's interesting to ponder the value of a weapon that an enemy may have no idea about"- absolutely right in my humble opinion-

"all war is based upon deception" (Lao Tsu- "The Art of War"- at least attributed to this entity)

"This all suggests the possibility that this class of advanced weapons is intended for an entirely different theater than the global one"- I think this is absolutely the truth-

but it's a difficult concept for most to grasp- I have no problems whatsoever with believing we are NOT the only sentient beings in our vast universe-

"It's interesting to ponder the value of a weapon that an enemy may have no idea about, considering that much of the value of weaponry on show is deterrence. This all suggests the possibility that this class of advanced weapons is intended for an entirely different theater than the global one"; well, no s**t!-

"now that we have the formula right we can send ET back home"- Ben Rich

please continue to be well Bill and all readers-

Larry

AutumnW
25th April 2018, 16:55
Great article. Thanks Paul. Orlov has always been one of my favourites. As it becomes more apparent that the U.S. can no longer win earth bound wars, the military industrial complex will need new enemies. This alludes to Bill's post. The timing of the faux gas attack and the limited response from the U.S. synchronizes fairly well with what looks like 'disclosure' coming out of CIA co-opted vehicles like the New York Times. Is a new enemy being created in the minds of tax payers, regardless of who has what tech?

Is there a chance too that the new space programs will be invigorated with post war Sputnik enthusiasm, be it real or manufactured?

Foxie Loxie
25th April 2018, 20:20
O.K.....what about The Breakaway Civilizations? I tend to think that there is a whole other equation that we know nothing about. We simply do not have ALL the facts, IMO.

Think about this...."somebody" stepped in to make sure HRC did not get elected. I still think we(planet Earth) are in the middle of somebody else's war & we haven't a clue about what is really going on. Our "leaders" are required to play along with the charade.

I get the feeling that "our Bill" knows more about what is going on than he wishes to share with us! :bigsmile: But then, could we handle it?!:Angel:

After reading what Tintin posted about who really controls the finances of this planet, there is hardly any chance that that system could be unraveled. It will be interesting to see what part China & Russia play in all this. Then I keep thinking how Edgar Casey said that Russia would save the world. :confused:

shaberon
25th April 2018, 22:12
(Lao Tsu- "The Art of War"- at least attributed to this entity)



Minor point incoming. That was by Sun Tsu. The name as written refers to the compiler of Daoism.