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woomap
16th May 2018, 18:10
So I'm totally new here to this forum. Hello everyone!

I'm not sure if this is the right category for my topic/question, if not, admin please feel free to move this thread to the right place.

So I suppose members here in this forum believe that we, human-kind, had been created and trapped by aliens on this Earth for millennia (if you think this is not correct, please enlighten me). So basically we, as souls (our truest "self") had been reused/reincarnated/re-employed over and over again within different human shells for each lifetime we lived on Earth.

My question is: does any member here have any solutions to how we could possible end this seemingly endless cycle of reincarnation and sufferings? (I'm not talking about suicide because that would only help end this current incarnation, not the whole trap system)

I look forward to hearing from everyone here. Thanks!!

:ROFL: btw this icon looks so freaking funny :ROFL: lol

waves
16th May 2018, 18:26
....So I suppose members here in this forum believe that we, human-kind, had been created and trapped by aliens on this Earth for millennia (if you think this is not correct, please enlighten me). So basically we, as souls (our truest "self") had been reused/reincarnated/re-employed over and over again within different human shells for each lifetime we lived on Earth....My question is: does any member here have any solutions to how we could possible end this seemingly endless cycle of reincarnation and sufferings?

In short, I used to think that the recycling-soul-alien trap was the most likely probability, but I do not anymore. I'm leaning toward Tom Campbell's TOE, but I'm leaving open the possibility that the above scenario can be contained within it in some bizarre way, but not as an inescapable trap - as the agreement of a consciousness to participate in that created reality.

I've also put the somewhat romantic, generally accepted notion of same repeating personality definition of soul on hold and am waiting to understand why 'consciousness' creating avatar after avatar as Tom keeps referring to is different.

EFO
16th May 2018, 18:39
My question is: does any member here have any solutions to how we could possible end this seemingly endless cycle of reincarnation and sufferings? (I'm not talking about suicide because that would only help end this current incarnation, not the whole trap system)

The simple thing is to be aware of yourself,understand the things and don't enter into karmic circle.Simple. :)

Wind
16th May 2018, 18:55
As far as I know, the only way out of samsara is to clear your karma and attain a state of non-attachment. Easier said than done though!

https://buddhaimonia.com/blog/let-go-find-peace

Bluegreen
16th May 2018, 19:09
Hi woomap
You may find this reading to be of interest

"The Death Trap And How To Avoid It"
www.wespenre.com/Articles/Article_2_Death_Trap_and_How_to_Avoid_It.htm

From The Wes Penre Papers
www.wespenre.com

greybeard
16th May 2018, 19:26
There is one way out of reincarnation and that has been pointed to by mystics of various cultures for many thousands of years and that is Enlightenment.
That means literally freedom from ignorance---the ignorance being that you are separate from the creator, that you are the persona, that you are a completely separate person.

Self Realization is another name for Enlightenment.
Realization of the Self means discovering your true Self---you were never born you do not die you are the eternal One Self.
Non duality means One without a second --thats what you are.

So you have choice--there are all sorts of stories that lead you away from truth and keep you on the karmic wheel of reincarnation.
So either you believe the stories or look at Non-duality and discover for your self the truth.
One you know the Truth then there is no need for repeated reincarnation, you have exited the school of life--you have graduated.

we-R-one
16th May 2018, 19:39
I highly recommend not believing the 'trap' argument as that's the trap! This 3D reality promotes 'victimhood' to no end. It's so bad that most people clearly cannot see what they're participating in. Ever watch someone go through the medical madness of a serious illness such as breast cancer? Victim-hood is heavily promoted and encouraged. You are told it's your gene's, blah, blah, blah...Thanks to Dr. Bruce Lipton we know this isn't true! But the medical industry heavily promotes victimhood ensuring that you never think you can heal yourself and the only way out is their non-effective chemotherapy which by the way doesn't kill the cancer stem cell!

Research past life regressions from a variety of sources not just one, very important. You will see patterns and from what I've seen, the patterns don't suggest a 'trap', but rather you are here to learn and grow. The 'trap' meme is fear based. You are immortal and there is nothing to fear, even more so when reincarnation is basically telling you this reality isn't what's real. Take a close look at Robert Schwartz work, buy his books where he shares case study. I believe he talks about the soul learning anywhere from 26 to 32 virtues before the complete the process.
http://yoursoulsplan.com/

greybeard
16th May 2018, 19:43
The "trap" is but a thought believed.
Much the same as believing you are the body.
Ch

Justplain
16th May 2018, 22:12
There are several paradoxes and seeming contradictions in this incarnational reality.

Firstly, research by Michael Newton, and others, shows that humans house immortal souls that are journeying through a learning and evolutionary process here. This appears to be a very well co-ordinated program. This process as described matches the fundamental message from many Earth mystical and religious traditions.

Secondly, accounts from other sources, like Karla Turner, John Lear and Truman Cash, paint a gloomy portrait of reincarnational enslavement orchestrated by the four main ET groups (grays, plieadians, reptilians and mantids). I personally have suffered from 'harvesting' by grays who have left physical scars on my body.

The third complexity in this reality is our apparent inherent ability to influence our 3-d matrix, as manifested through syncronisities and materializations. This indicates that we may truly be co-creaters of our experiences here, as proclaimed by channelled entities like Jane Roberts' 'Seth' and Bashar.

So, apparently some of us are trapped in an ET orchestrated reincarnational cycle. Yet we also apparently have magical creative abilities. Many, if not all of us, are also part of an intriguing, love-driven soul evolution. These all seem to paradoxically co-exist here. Paradoxes are part of the logic defying learning that we have to go through.

How to exit the 'soul enslavement' aspect of this reality? Truman Cash believes that one needs to undergo extensive past life rememberances, in order to vent the pain, forgive and attain detachment.

How to exit the regular 'evolutionary' reincarnational cycle is posited by other posts in this thread..

Ernie Nemeth
17th May 2018, 00:11
The deeper the new understandings in science goes the more reality seems to be a seamless reiteration of a single engram - a hologram. This concept is so unusual that there are no analogues to describe it and no analogies to refer to. Like the Mandelbrot set or a Mobius strip, to include polar opposites, the iterations are endless.

Somewhere in those iterations is mankind's world and all there is to perceive. Turn but a minute fraction of an angle to either side and there mankind and the world of human perceptivity has never existed. Yet focus on additional detail large or small and mankind's world amazingly reappears on another level of sophistication.

It would seem that re-incarnation is a fundamental aspect of the universe, then, where each aspect of reality reflects the possibility of every other, yet needs neither to include or dismiss any other aspect in order to exist. Only a re-iterating fractal can contain its own contradiction and still remain viable.

Re-iterative means over and over again. Fractal means copy or the same as the original as seen from a second perspective.

If we are trapped here, the trap is in our own minds and therefore the way out is also located within each of us. Just as any portion of a hologram contains the entirety of the original hologram so too do we contain the infinite spark of the Original Designer.

edit to add: And welcome Woomap

Craig
17th May 2018, 03:07
Great first post!

After a lifetime of wondering and being lost on many a path I am now currently favouring the conversations with god approach by Neale Donald Walsch about the unity of it all and exploring divinity from a non divine approach? I don't necessarily like it, in fact not fond of it at all, but it makes the most sense currently. If I find something that makes more sense I will look into it.

But vote no to returning.

Omni
17th May 2018, 03:40
So I suppose members here in this forum believe that we, human-kind, had been created and trapped by aliens on this Earth for millennia (if you think this is not correct, please enlighten me).
It is incorrect in my opinion. We are not trapped reincarnationally on this planet as a civilization. This is our planet. People were born here. A reason why interstellar incarnation doesn't happen a lot on a world like this is because eventually history is largely known and people want to connect with others they have a history with (reincarnationally). Souls do not zip around the universe after death, from what I understand it is actually scientific what happens. The new age has people believing false spirituality 2.0 and the truth wont be readily available in a major way until global contact.


So basically we, as souls (our truest "self") had been reused/reincarnated/re-employed over and over again within different human shells for each lifetime we lived on Earth.
Usually a being wants to exist. It is part of existence to incarnate in a body. In my view what you are talking about is a psychological warfare mechanism to make alt media think their planet is doomed, demonize reality, and that they are in prison even when they are not. Creating a false reality of imprisonment.


My question is: does any member here have any solutions to how we could possible end this seemingly endless cycle of reincarnation and sufferings? (I'm not talking about suicide because that would only help end this current incarnation, not the whole trap system)
I recommend building a life for yourself. Something you want to live. Reincarnation is what beings ultimately want in my opinion. This planet has been so besieged it can look like a hell but things will change if enough dedicated people move the world forward. Perhaps you could work on changing this planet from something you could see as a trap prison into something worth living in, some sort of activism.

MorningFox
17th May 2018, 10:41
No one knows for sure that reincarnation even exists, so to try and discuss how to get out of the cycle of reincarnation seems like the ego wasting time, as usual.

Enjoy right now and make the most of this life.

greybeard
17th May 2018, 10:49
No one knows for sure that reincarnation even exists, so to try and discuss how to get out of the cycle of reincarnation seems like the ego wasting time, as usual.

Enjoy right now and make the most of this life.

Thats probably the best advice yet Morning Fox.

Its all levels.
Ramana Mahrshi said that " Neither creation or dissolution" --not the right word but nothing ever happened at that level.
Its all Maya--Idras dream an illusion but ever so real.
So its a thought of the Creator and we are That.
Enjoy the moment.

Chris

woomap
17th May 2018, 13:47
Thanks very much everyone for contributing with various insights and perspectives! I really appreciated that!

Tbh, I haven't done any deep research into this kind of topics, so really I have very little to add. But I'll try my best. So here goes nothing:

It's always kinda bugged me that, supposed we humans had always been experiencing a love-based 3D journey (in which we keep learning and evolving from lifetime to lifetime, no aliens, no 'traps'), then why can't we remember those previous lifetimes of ours? When it comes to learning, memory plays a big part, if not the biggest part, just look at how students learn at school. As below, so above. It seems like there's something that keeps blocking or erasing our memories of our previous lifetimes. And I can only think of one reason: this 'something' doesn't want us to remember. It doesn't want us to learn!!

...but probably the human shell is stronger than it thought. Throughout lifetimes, we step by step, though very little ones, keep on remembering the lessons that we learnt during our previous lifetimes. You know, those moments when we suddenly realize certain invisible patterns/forces that run this world. I call them the spiritual hiccups, and am pretty sure everyone here can relate to that feeling.

Now, let's talk a bit about meditation and the art of letting go, as some members here mentioned. I've personally been meditating for some time and found that it has significant & positive effects on both my physical and mental health. Again, I'm sure everyone here already knew the benefits of meditating. One thing though: personally I find meditating extremely challenging and kinda, unnatural for the human body & mind, at least from the beginning. And maybe that's why it's called a practice, and it's effort-demanding by nature. I've never heard anyone saying 'hey let's go play some meditation, it's really fun!'

My point is, if the main goal of a soul in this 3D reality is to keep meditating within a human shell, then why make the task of meditation so unnatural from the first place!? To make matters worse, here in this 3D reality there are all kinds of distractions to lure souls away from their spiritual path. So to me, if anything, this world looks more like a computer game, where the chance of winning is much lesser than the chance of losing, with all kinds of obstacles to keep us from reaching the goal.

@Bluegreen: thank you for sharing! I've looked at the Wes Penre's Soulution of getting out of the Grid before, so I know that we are supposed to avoid the Tunnel of Light after leaving the physical body. So that's one solution. One. That's why I made this thread to seek more various solutions, from various truth-seekers out there. And who's to say if Wes was absolutely correct, right? What if when we go through those Grid holes, we end up the exact same place as in the Tunnel, right?

I'm looking forward to everyone's responses and new insights. Thank you all very much! Much appreciatedddddd!!!

Valerie Villars
17th May 2018, 13:56
I highly recommend not believing the 'trap' argument as that's the trap! This 3D reality promotes 'victimhood' to no end. It's so bad that most people clearly cannot see what they're participating in. Ever watch someone go through the medical madness of a serious illness such as breast cancer? Victim-hood is heavily promoted and encouraged. You are told it's your gene's, blah, blah, blah...Thanks to Dr. Bruce Lipton we know this isn't true! But the medical industry heavily promotes victimhood ensuring that you never think you can heal yourself and the only way out is their non-effective chemotherapy which by the way doesn't kill the cancer stem cell!

Research past life regressions from a variety of sources not just one, very important. You will see patterns and from what I've seen, the patterns don't suggest a 'trap', but rather you are here to learn and grow. The 'trap' meme is fear based. You are immortal and there is nothing to fear, even more so when reincarnation is basically telling you this reality isn't what's real. Take a close look at Robert Schwartz work, buy his books where he shares case study. I believe he talks about the soul learning anywhere from 26 to 32 virtues before the complete the process.
http://yoursoulsplan.com/

That's weird. My son and I's story is the chapter called "Death of a Loved One". I gave that interview back in 2004. Rob told me that book helped a lot of people. I know there were things that helped me tremendously during that process. I still have a copy of that book, but it was called "Courageous Souls". For some reason they changed the name.

Woomap, I think one of the biggest things to get past and get over, thereby releasing the soul from learning that lesson, is to really know that death is an illusion. That only comes with experience and hard work on the self.

It's good to have you here. :waving:

enigma3
17th May 2018, 14:30
Reincarnation exists but the question is moot. Eventually everyone will see that it is real.

The only way to get beyond reincarnation is to get awake. The awakened state is not enlightenment though. Self realization gets one awake. Beyond awakening one has to burn off/get unattached to karma. That is the real challenge. Karmic roots go DEEP. When one is awake and has no more karmic attachments, enlightenment automatically occurs.

Eastern teachings tell us that when one's consciousness settles in the heart, its natural place, awakening naturally happens. That is the basis of all tantric teachings. To bring the consciousness to rest in the heart. Those teachings grease the skids for Grace to come visiting.

And let us remember the number one reality of awakening. There is NO "you". No individual I. One's personal story and all that attaches to it is a made up construct. Rather different than life as we know it, eh? There is, in reality, only constant creation, like a continuous river. We only have to realize that and jump in! How marvelous.

MorningFox
17th May 2018, 15:41
Reincarnation exists

You can say you believe it exists, as I do. Nothing more.

greybeard
17th May 2018, 16:07
Your thoughts determine your universe.
From the formless the form materializes.

This is the reason that some "religions" stress the importance of your last thoughts.
No matter the validity of the belief.
So if you want to believe thataliens will abduct you and send you back do not be surprised if that happens--all part of the cosmic dream--you are the dreamer.
Eventually one gets tired of the mirage and Self Realisation occurs.
As pointed out, on realization of the Self there is no single entity left to incarnate--no persona --no ego --no separation--just the One without another.
This is not an opinion, a thought, it is testified to by the experience of countless mystics throughout time--direct realization of the Self.

Ch



.

Rhah
17th May 2018, 16:44
Try your best to be the very best person you can be for yourself and others, and hope that at the end of this incarnation there are no further lessons that you have yet to learn. For if you do, you will cone back of your own volition.

I personally don't ascribe to the idea of "them" having installed a reincarnation loop by use of a "soul reincarnation machine" on the moon, because I don't believe that "they" are capable of controlling or even influencing anything above the 4th dimension. I believe that this theory was spread by the cabal to induce a sense of hopelessness and despair into the people that came too close so as to stop them from taking life seriously and making a conscious decision to better themselves (because "what's the point anyway if we're stuck here for all eternity?"). It almost gives one a sense of being stuck in hell, rather than to experience this lifetime as an opportunity for our soul to learn and grow.

Instead, I believe that you are here because your soul either still has things to learn and experience that it wasn't capable of doing in a previous lifetime, or because your soul has completed its journey and has therefore made the conscious decision to come back to help others achieve the same goal (which, considering your question, is probably unlikely).
This means that your soul made the conscious decision to reincarnate into your current life because this specific life would provide it with exactly those opportunities it needed to learn the things that it still needed to learn.

Therefore I'd like to say the following: the universe isn't random - far from it, in fact*. Everything happens for a reason. So try not to see life as a burden, but try to learn from your experiences. Even the negative ones.

Just my 2 cents :)

*That is not to say that there is no randomness in existence, however. Because there actually is a random component to the universe due to the fact that we all have free will. But that is balanced out by the universe's deterministic component, which is brought about by the rules of natural law that we are all bound by. So while not literally everything is predetermined because of our free will, our actions are bound by natural law making us subject to their consequences (cause and effect, or karma).

greybeard
17th May 2018, 17:14
My only thought really, is to take away the fear associated, by some, with death and reincarnation.
Ch

woomap
17th May 2018, 20:03
Thanks so much everyone once again for contributing your insights!

The way I see it, many of us here agree that there's no need to 'escape' this life, because this 3D Earth journey is about learning & evolving spiritually, and ultimately pain/suffering is a choice (decided by one's own mind). If you think that I've misinterpreted, please correct me.

Now, I'm all for positive thinking and against self-victimization, but to think that there's nothing absurd about this 3D reality we're living in is to me kinda, well, absurd. Pain & objective sufferings are everywhere on our planet, represented in all kinds of forms around us (war, sickness, hunger, various physical pains, loved ones' deaths, abusive relationships, etc...). According to John Panella, in his books, we, as souls, entered this reality in human shells to experience a dying process/death process, from the day we were born as babies to the day we physically die. The so-called 'life' is nothing but a journey to the 'death', at least physically. The Buddha himself also said 'life is suffering' or 'life is never satisfactory', which I'm sure many of us here could agree with, especially the second phrase.

No matter how hard you try to live this 'life', you're never gonna feel 100% satisfied/contended/enough/whole. Our human mind/ego was designed that way. That's also why we need to meditate, which is an unnatural practice (meaning: our human mind wasn't created originally to meditate, IMO, but at the same time ironically, meditation seems to be the only solution).

So, my questions from my previous post remains:

1. If this 3D reality is simply just like a school, where souls learn to evolve, then why is our memory of previous lifetimes all erased!? It's like whoever is running this school, he doesn't want us to remember our previously learnt lessons. He doesn't want us to graduate. Anyone has an answer to this?

2. Also, scientists nowadays agree that the human senses can only perceive 4% of this universe. Many animals (flies, bees, eagles, dolphins...) have better senses than we do. We humans in fact have hidden senses (one example: third eye, located in the middle of our forehead) and can only activate them through some certain types of practice (I have personally experienced this, and whoever here has also experienced it, will definitely understand what I'm saying). So yeah if you asked me, I'd say these highly limited human shells were designed to block us, to prevent us from perceiving what's really out there. Does this look like a 'trap' to you?

3. My original question: is there any way for us to end this endless cycle of reincarnation? (beside Wes Penre's Tunnel of Light solution, and meditating, as many of us here have suggested).

I look forward to hearing from everyone here. Thank you all so much once again!!

Omni
17th May 2018, 20:09
Now, I'm all for positive thinking and against self-victimization, but to think that there's nothing absurd about this 3D reality we're living in is to me kinda, well, absurd.
From what I could tell nobody is saying there isn't anything absurd. Especially not myself. However I am saying that this planet is our home, not a reincarnation trap.

enigma3
17th May 2018, 20:55
@ Morning Fox - Yes we can say we believe reincarnation exists. As a belief. However, a closer inspection of the Eastern literature tells us that many people have seen the reality of it. The Tibetan Book of the Dead is a good starting point. The Tibetans, with gobs and gobs of time to explore, have charted the unseen realms over time. They have a death process that can only be done by a highly realized person. In this process they have discovered that one's consciousness goes through several states during the death process and reemerges in what they call the bardo. Where one resides between lifetimes. Then it is on to another body. The Tibetans (and others to be sure) know all there is to know concerning things in the unseen world. Their knowledge far surpasses anything known in the West. As for me, I wish to learn from these sages so I won't repeat the countless mistakes made by so many.

To an awakened person who is fully awake, there is no reincarnation. Awakening takes one beyond that.

Ernie Nemeth
17th May 2018, 22:14
I think the reason for the memory thing is that the totality of us cannot fit into this incarnation. Yet all parts are accessible with the right key.

Reincarnation as a soul trap is not something I ascribe to either. I think we intend to reincarnate but we continually overestimate the damnable container we cram ourselves into. Too much is lost with each trip, so we tweak the experience, the particulars, each time hoping this time we might remember.

But it is always there, fully accessible - it must be because it is the missing portions of ourselves. The shadow, as it is called, represents some of the missing pieces as we constantly discard portions of ourselves we don't understand or find distasteful. The shadow points to that thing called the "real" you. It is only shadow because we rid it of light, preferring to ignore and deny this unwanted portion of self.

So, another way to "break the cycle" is to do shadow work. In reality, the shadow is the other, the thing not you, as you know yourself to be in this incarnation. It would be a magnificent moment of discovery to realize that the thing that is you is so actually infinitely brilliant! But that would take the work of a monk to uncover. Pertinent bits can be accessed with reasonable effort. (I do not mean you as in personally you but in the general sense of any "you".)

But the best way to end the cycle is to love. Love with all your heart this life, this reality. And be certain of the majesty of our Creator.

Omni
17th May 2018, 22:32
I think the reason for the memory thing is that the totality of us cannot fit into this incarnation. Yet all parts are accessible with the right key.
I disagree. The idea of losing memory being an evil mechanic is a distortion of the truth and part of new age psyop. We lose memory each incarnation because of the relativity of the universe's design. It is actually a perfect design that accounts for things like soul mates, aspects of a person's soul and identity, personality progress, the chance to reset your brainwashing, the relativity of growth and being young to old, an incarnation history, the chance to be with different people in different lifetimes and find a soul mate, the reset of knowledge in the brain which makes the universe brand new again next lifetime (which makes it really interesting again if that had been lost).

The natural laws of the universe cannot be broken, and there are natural laws of the universe that age a body. Yes it is also a possible to prolong or stall this with frequency science but the natural laws also dictate genetic scientific laws which inherently give advanced races a blueprint for proper behavior (based on what it does objectively, both detrimental or positive to genetics and/or soul).

There are hundreds of reasons for the current model of losing memory. I can only name a small amount. I feel this psyop may be about making people discontent with the universe and their reality. The psychological aspects of the belief would indicate the truth.

Rhah
17th May 2018, 22:53
1. If this 3D reality is simply just like a school, where souls learn to evolve, then why is our memory of previous lifetimes all erased!? It's like whoever is running this school, he doesn't want us to remember our previously learnt lessons. He doesn't want us to graduate. Anyone has an answer to this?

Because if you'd be fully cognizant of your previous lifetimes, and would be aware of the lessons that you needed to learn in this lifetime, then those lessons wouldn't be learned with true sincerety. Instead, you'd learn them for selfish reasons, and solely because you'd know that you'd personally benefit from doing so. You wouldn't, for instance, be kind and loving towards animals because you would intrinsically, in your heart, feel that that's how you should treat animals, but you'd be kind and loving towards animals because you'd know that you'd receive personal gain from behaving that way. And that's not a genuine learning process. Those aren't lessons learned from the heart or from love. In fact, you haven't actually learned a thing.

It's like having an important exam in school and being handed all the exam's questions beforehand, in which case all you have to do is study just the answers to those specific questions to get an A+. Resulting in an A+ that doesn't actually mean a thing, and that doesn't in any way prove that you have properly studied and have thus come to understand the subject.

That's why you enter this life as a blank canvas, so to speak. Only by making conscious decisions in this lifetime on how you want to live your life, how you want to behave and how you want to treat others, based on what you feel is the right thing rather than already knowing it, is how your soul will learn, grow and evolve.

Of course, anyone is more than free to disagree with me or see it differently, but this is simply how I have come to understand the purpose of life after years of study. I hope it helps :)

Valerie Villars
17th May 2018, 23:02
I think the reason for the memory thing is that the totality of us cannot fit into this incarnation. Yet all parts are accessible with the right key.

Reincarnation as a soul trap is not something I ascribe to either. I think we intend to reincarnate but we continually overestimate the damnable container we cram ourselves into. Too much is lost with each trip, so we tweak the experience, the particulars, each time hoping this time we might remember.

But it is always there, fully accessible - it must be because it is the missing portions of ourselves. The shadow, as it is called, represents some of the missing pieces as we constantly discard portions of ourselves we don't understand or find distasteful. The shadow points to that thing called the "real" you. It is only shadow because we rid it of light, preferring to ignore and deny this unwanted portion of self.

So, another way to "break the cycle" is to do shadow work. In reality, the shadow is the other, the thing not you, as you know yourself to be in this incarnation. It would be a magnificent moment of discovery to realize that the thing that is you is so actually infinitely brilliant! But that would take the work of a monk to uncover. Pertinent bits can be accessed with reasonable effort. (I do not mean you as in personally you but in the general sense of any "you".)

But the best way to end the cycle is to love. Love with all your heart this life, this reality. And be certain of the majesty of our Creator.

Ernie, I have to say I agree with all you said. And it was beautifully said. The part about cramming yourself into this body really resonated. But, even that can be transcended. And it is all there and accessible. It's really simple if you think about it.

Bo Atkinson
17th May 2018, 23:19
http://harmoniouspalette.com/MorningMay.jpg
Life can be that dream, cleared from traps, given the means.
As some find comfortable situations while most cannot.
The incarnate controllers, love blinders, on the stage of life.
While the eugenic musical chairs, entrain the multitudes.
We are welcomed, taking comfort, in various relaxed platitudes,
Reciting convivial teachings, of the blessed ones, on the couch.
The energetic, might rather step up, to see what they can see.
Sneak behind the veil, wake up beyond the fazed burlesque.
See these other venues, freshly available, in the here and now.

Ernie Nemeth
17th May 2018, 23:57
I no longer know what it is but it is ever more an established fact that this world is a mask that has been pulled over our heads - it masks a reality that we have a right to and that we must fight to retake and reclaim. More likely it is mostly a fabrication of our own willful making perhaps helped along by outside nefarious forces.

I do not think we come here for lessons because what is there that love needs to learn? There is love and there is the yearning for love, nothing more. All the shades of grey have been created by minds confused of their source. They believe they are little minds amongst many little minds separated by a vast chasm of ignorant, insolent, loneliness that can never be traversed.

I don't believe that.

I believe where we come from, our home, is a place of, for us now, unimaginable beauty. A place where all residents are respected, uplifted, enabled to soar to their fullest potential. Where we come from there is no "them", no outcasts, no enemy. We are respected and trusted throughout the universe. Many come just to gaze at the greatness of our creations or learn of new advances and abilities. And we are legion! So many souls...

Something has gotten in the way of this remembering.

Bill Ryan
18th May 2018, 00:01
The direct analogy is living a day, ending that day, going to sleep, and waking up again to a new day... BUT, with amnesia.

Here's the question, then. :)

Why would anyone not want to live another day?

shaberon
18th May 2018, 00:06
Tibetan Book of the Dead is a great starting point, though being folklorish and not literally true. The basic pattern and process is true, but not all the details.

The actual Mahayana Path has nothing to do with escaping the cycle or avoiding reincarnation. Total opposite. The intention is to bring the Perfected Nature into manifestation or incarnation, and purify infinite realms. One transcends the default, unconscious transmigrations and gains control over them. In a sense, this removes one from the "automatic" cycle, but one continues working within it. This idea may not appeal to all, as it is quite difficult and literally endless.

Having said that, the older concept of Moksha or liberation from the cycle is not evil; it cannot proceed by evil means. One may proceed that way with no argument from me, however, I go more with the question: How can I make more and better incarnations?

Valerie Villars
18th May 2018, 01:26
The direct analogy is living a day, ending that day, going to sleep, and waking up again to a new day... BUT, with amnesia.

Here's the question, then. :)

Why would anyone not want to live another day?

That's it exactly Bill! How much I admire you for your dedication.You're the best. Really.

Omni
18th May 2018, 01:33
The direct analogy is living a day, ending that day, going to sleep, and waking up again to a new day... BUT, with amnesia.

Here's the question, then. :)

Why would anyone not want to live another day?
They live another day under a new lifetime where they can discover the whole universe again. The "amnesia" is not an evil mechanic IMO. It is a component of a perfect universal design.

Also, someone who just lost their soul mate may not want to live another day.

Olam
18th May 2018, 01:52
After a few years of searching, studying and practicing certain modalities, I have discovered details that seem to be the same and sort of form a foundation of truth, at least for me about karma and reincarnation.
For example, In Falun Dafa/ Falun Gong, which is supposed to be one of the founding Chi-gong practices, most pure and ancient, one of the "side effects" of the practice is to burn karma faster in that lifetime and not take in new karma. By spinning the law wheel daily, it is said to burn karma vey fast. I have practiced Falun Gong for a few months, I have no clue if I burned karma faster but it sure was great for clearing up the energetic body.
I started a thread about a book I read about Jesus's grandmother Anna. She talks about how they practiced being in their " I Am" inner space. How it purified their souls and assured a conscious death. By that she meant having achieved perfection in a lifetime and not having to come back if they chose so.
If any of you follow Mooji, Papaji, whom all follow Sri Ramana Maharshi, the modality also mentions about how it can remove karma efficiently and so die consciously like Maharshi seemingly did.
I can say that my Falun Dafa practice was the begining of understanding all this, but I was very much still in my ego and so I did not reap all benefits of karma burning for sure.
Now, I regularly use the self inquiry technique from Marharshi as well as the invitation technique from Mooji and THAT has been my salvation ...
I now can just be all that is, be something other than my persona whom is attached to the mind,emotions and ego.
I can create this space between my emotions and "I".
Or "I and I" as Bob Marley would say!
This has changed everything, now, syncronicities abound, perfect timings, gifts from everywhere, always out of the blue and totally unexpected...

As far as I am concerned, Falun Dafa basics, Anna and the Essenes, Jesus, Sri Ramana, Mooji, Papaji and I am sure many more that I have not yet discovered, all point to the same truth.

It all makes sense now.
When you can just be the spirit that you are, the thing that makes your heart beat, " the self ", that "I am" presence, you extract yourself from the ego that creates karma in the first place...
I have learned that you can't be that 24/7, but I go there as much as I can, everyday, even if its just 5 minutes.
It makes all the difference.

Now I tell people, this is my last life here....
hehe
I have no clue, other than when I am in that space, its all very clear to me.
:-)

O Donna
18th May 2018, 01:52
Why would anyone not want to live another day?[/I]

To up the ante the question posed.

CHOICE: Why would anyone not want to live another day?

RANDOM: Why would anyone not want to live another day (under any circumstance)?

Random or choice? That opens up a whole 'nother can of worms.

Caliban
18th May 2018, 02:22
Man, I love this topic, even though it's like a needle stuck on a record groove here at Camp Avalon... it's still tres groovy...

There's a channeling that the "Shiny Show" gals did (on their YT channel), supposedly of the chief honcho him/her self, the Creator. Anyway, She says She was so dismayed watching things play out She asked the spirits "do you want to stop this reincarnation game?" The answer was a resounding, "Hell, no!!" (uh, heaven, no?)

So maybe the "game" looks a whole lot different from over there. And think about it, we're probably part of some "higher self" or soul group (or whichever) and what we are now is only a little sliver of who we really are. And so on. Maybe we all came here to remember, hey wherever I am, heaven is. Sure, there's pain and sometimes things suck, but what if I could find the bliss and ecstasy in every... moment/hour/day... ?

Who re-incarnates, after all?

Carmody
18th May 2018, 02:43
I prefer slight recall, so we can keep the stresses off ourselves while alive... at the same time we punch up the stress levels from/in the life lived. It's that thing about only getting as much as you can handle, and if you can handle more, well..it gets piled on.

But that is a thing that comes in time...

Avuso
18th May 2018, 04:55
Wow, what a great collection of thoughts. Thank you everyone for sharing.

I also recommend Robert Schwartz's two books: Your Soul's Plan and Your Soul's Gift. They are inspiring and amazing. One of the chapters explains how even things like rape can be chosen by a soul, and how it contributes to its balancing and growth.

I think people are born for different reasons, to learn different things, to complete different missions. In general I think there is a progression or evolution for souls. The universe as a whole is always evolving, as are it's holographic components (like us). I wouldn't be surprised if the whole physical universe was one cell in the body of an orgasming human. It's pretty healthy and fun to think those sort of mind-expanding thoughts.

What do you want to do with your life? I studied metaphysical questions deeply, but my studies were mostly motivated by pain in my own heart. A part of my didn't want to live, and wanted to know why it was worth it. My solution and path has been to feel that pain, and allow life to flow again.

I like the advice to build a life that you want to live. Be a person you'd like to know and trust. Be the best you can be.

I think it's important to be aware of the games and traps, if only to raise the collective consciousness and avoid harm when you can. But if you think all of life is a trap, you're living with dark glasses. If this is a matrix (and I think that metaphor is pretty useful and accurate), the flowers still like to talk to me. There is a greater loving intelligence here that makes it all worth it. And that I find in nature, in my own heart, in the orgasm of those I love.

Jad
18th May 2018, 05:00
This is one of my favorite topics of discussion. In fact, that’s why I am very grateful to be a member of this forum since none of my friends or family are even remotely interested in such topics. My opinion about this has always been changing as I continue to learn more about it. Here is how I look at it now:

1- We as humans tend to accept the fact that we are spirits/souls.. but what is that really? The way I choose to understand it is that we are simply awareness first, then insert any description you want after that. That description wether it is spirit, human, alien, animal, etc.. is the content. So we have an awareness identifying itself with content and interacting with itself within it.

2- I don’t think of this whole life on earth as a learning system at all. I see it more like a virtual video game called reality where we get immersed in our identity and believe it is really who we are. What makes us happy or sad? The content in our life. If you watch a dramatic movie with a sad ending, maybe you will get sad for a bit, but you will move on cause you know it’s just a story. Guess what? All the countless lives on this planet are stories interacting with other stories ! The only difference is that we are not watching it in a movie theatre because we are actually inside the movie itself! That’s why it’s harder for us to realize that we are simply living within a story.

3- What is Love? ( Lady don’t hurt me! 😂 😂 sorry I couldn’t resist putting this here!)
It’s the unbiased and equal awareness of the connectedness of all things no matter what the content is . That’s why when we have a mystical experience, we feel connected with the whole universe because we stop identifying with our little personal story and start identifying with a much bigger one so we feel love for everything and everyone because we expanded our identity to include everyone.

4- So what is reincarnation all about then? It’s just another story that we need to transcend. How to transcend it? By expanding our awareness and seeing the interconnectedness of everything. We achieve that by being honest and loving to everyone and everything we interact with. This is much easier said than done, but if we are able to do that then we will get back the child like wonder that we lost long time ago because that’s our only ticket out of this mess. ( just my personal opinion).

greybeard
18th May 2018, 09:25
Another consideration is genes ---the traits of the forefathers--they reincarnate through you via genes.
How to get out of reincarnation.
Stop believing the story of the "me"
Ego basically is a separation device and as long as separation is believed in we reincarnate.

When ego is transcended then reincarnation is done with--you have graduated.
Its not about what you have read or who said what.
The ego will keep you chasing all kinds of ideas--you are not an idea--you are the eternal one Self.
Mother Teresa, whan asked how she could work with lepers, said "I see them as Christ in disguise"

You are the One consciousness in disguise as a person
When you get that, no further incarnations.
All the rest is story telling.

Chris

airaspect
18th May 2018, 09:48
As entertaining pondering this idea is, the truth is nobody here knows any better then anyone alse, and we have no idea how to obtain that knowledge. But have a nice day :)

MorningFox
18th May 2018, 10:26
@ Morning Fox - Yes we can say we believe reincarnation exists. As a belief. However, a closer inspection of the Eastern literature tells us that many people have seen the reality of it. The Tibetan Book of the Dead is a good starting point. The Tibetans, with gobs and gobs of time to explore, have charted the unseen realms over time. They have a death process that can only be done by a highly realized person. In this process they have discovered that one's consciousness goes through several states during the death process and reemerges in what they call the bardo. Where one resides between lifetimes. Then it is on to another body. The Tibetans (and others to be sure) know all there is to know concerning things in the unseen world. Their knowledge far surpasses anything known in the West. As for me, I wish to learn from these sages so I won't repeat the countless mistakes made by so many.

To an awakened person who is fully awake, there is no reincarnation. Awakening takes one beyond that.

It may be that many people have seen the reality of it, but firstly that is their reality and not yours, and it is certainly only your belief if you're just going by what someone else has experienced.

I'm just weary of how often people on this forum speak of things as fact rather than simply admitting that it's just their belief.

greybeard
18th May 2018, 11:51
As entertaining pondering this idea is, the truth is nobody here knows any better then anyone alse, and we have no idea how to obtain that knowledge. But have a nice day :)

I might not know but I know some one who does. LOL
The evidence of first hand knowledge from mystics.
Bear in mind that mystics in meditation saw the structure of the atom long before scientist did.

Chris

greybeard
18th May 2018, 12:14
Reduce any question about spirituality to" Whats the purpose?"
Why the hours spent in meditation and all that goes with the search?
The search for what?
Through the process "persona;"
vibration rises.
Realization of Self can occur.
Through out thousands of years Mystics have stated the reason for the search is to escape the cycle of reincarnation.
They have.

Chris

greybeard
18th May 2018, 12:22
The relative self and reincarnation - Bob Thurman

A conversation with Bob Thurman on non-duality, emptiness, and the true nature of the self. A recognized worldwide authority on religion and spirituality, asian history, world philosophy, buddhist science, Indo-Tibetan Buddhism and his Holiness the Dalai Lama, Robert Thurman is an eloquent advocate of the relevance of buddhist ideas in our daily lives.

One point of view!!
Im not of any religion
Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZVNev78XDU

Michi
18th May 2018, 12:25
Great perspectives on this topic!
How about this thesis:
Long time ago, beings knew everything there is to know and had the bright idea to create some new challenges.
So they created puzzles and traps to entertain and have games. Unfortunately this backfired as beings created more tougher and challenging traps.
On that prolonged course beings collected "karma" for which often responsibility was shunned and with that amnesia commenced.
With amnesisa in place everything had to be learned again in each live time.

While traps by some other beings may be overcome after the body dies, the "karma" and "non-responsibility" is still in place which sucks the person right back into a new baby body.
So - one need to clear oneself from "karma" and "non-responsibility". A possible way would be practizing ho-oponopono which Herve reminded me in this (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102744-How-Changing-Your-Beliefs-Actually-Changes-the-World-Around-You&p=1224653&viewfull=1#post1224653) post.

Mark (Star Mariner)
18th May 2018, 13:42
You are the One consciousness in disguise as a person
When you get that, no further incarnations.
All the rest is story telling.
Chris

It's not as simple as all that -- in my belief system I hasten to stress -- . I know what you know (right now), that we are consciousness, we are One. And what I know and what you know (right now) is but a tiny tiny fraction of what we knew then, before we incarnated. We can have no new revelations here on earth that we don't already know very well when we're in the 'ALL' between lives. We already know so much more: all the mysteries we baffle ourselves over whilst in the flesh body. We know it all! But we still incarnated.

Because it's about learning lessons down here in the mud. It's about refining, cleansing and purging. It's about buffing the stone (of the soul) into diamond. That's why we come. Why we must. And it's about helping others on the path do the same. It's virtually impossible to do all that in a single life, in a single body, as a single sex, living in a single place, speaking a single language, experiencing a single culture, etc etc. Not to mention karma as a factor, which can also bring us back (if we err). And there's so much more involved.

My take on it, for what it's worth.

cheers

enigma3
18th May 2018, 15:10
With the Tibetans there is not a whit of belief. What they write about is only experienced based. The literature is somewhat ponderous to navigate, but the teachings of what is regarding reincarnation is there. They have even charted the various stages of the dying process and entry into the bardo in great detail.

One of the teachings states that when a highly realized lama dies the body shrinks after death. Sometimes to only hair and fingernails, sometimes to a small body that is left. Also, a highly realized lama will enter a state called tukdam after death. Here the body does not go into rigor mortis but remains soft and worm. especially around the heart. There is a book about the death of the 16th Karmapa that is fascinating. Sorry, I don't remember the title. The book tells the story of his death from cancer in a Cleveland hospital. He left explicit instructions not to touch his body for three days after his death. Lots of corroboration to this story from those nurses and doctors who attended him. He went into tukdam for 3 days. His body did not rot and his heart area remained warm. After three days the tukdam ceased and he was placed in a casket for transport back to India. On opening the casket in India his body had shrunk by over half during the journey. One is left with the clear impression that the 16th Karmapa died as an example to Westerners of what the death process actually is for a highly realized human. A most remarkable story.

In the Tibetan culture there is a tradition called tulkus. A tulku is a reincarnated high lama. All Dalai Lamas, Panchen Lamas, Karmapas, and others are reincarnated beings. This carries on the teachings of a particular sect wherein the head lama reincarnates for the benefit of others. Is this a belief for me? No. It is a learned teaching from those who know. Those who have been there. The teaching is not a belief and my reception of it is therefore not a belief.

Also, there is no control gained over the process. Remember, there is no "I" who would control anything. There is, then, an intuitive realization that THAT which is one (God) simply continuously creates. Continuous creation with love in the realm of the senses. When one recognizes this as a constant stream and jumps into the stream, awakening occurs and reincarnation falls away. All who have made the jump and have chosen to write about it do not miss their personal "I" with its attended "story" at all. The pitifully small "I" is replaced with an all encompassing blend of love and intuitive knowing. Which the Tibetans call compassion.

The unseen realm is vast yet that which happens there affects all of us deeply. The Tibetans know this unseen realm intimately. This knowing comes through the intuition. The most positive means of "knowing". I choose to learn from their experience.

MorningFox
18th May 2018, 15:19
It's not as simple as all that -- in my belief system I hasten to stress -- . I know what you know (right now), that we are consciousness, we are One. And what I know and what you know (right now) is but a tiny tiny fraction of what we knew then, before we incarnated. We can have no new revelations here on earth that we don't already know very well when we're in the 'ALL' between lives. We already know so much more: all the mysteries we baffle ourselves over whilst in the flesh body. We know it all! But we still incarnated.

Because it's about learning lessons down here in the mud. It's about refining, cleansing and purging. It's about buffing the stone (of the soul) into diamond. That's why we come. Why we must. And it's about helping others on the path do the same. It's virtually impossible to do all that in a single life, in a single body, as a single sex, living in a single place, speaking a single language, experiencing a single culture, etc etc. Not to mention karma as a factor, which can also bring us back (if we err). And there's so much more involved.



If we 'know it all' in the afterlife then what is the point of incarnating to learn lessons? I'm not trying to be difficult but you seem to contradict yourself. :heart:

MorningFox
18th May 2018, 15:22
In the Tibetan culture there is a tradition called tulkus. A tulku is a reincarnated high lama. All Dalai Lamas, Panchen Lamas, Karmapas, and others are reincarnated beings. This carries on the teachings of a particular sect wherein the head lama reincarnates for the benefit of others. Is this a belief for me? No. It is a learned teaching from those who know. Those who have been there. The teaching is not a belief and my reception of it is therefore not a belief.



I apologise for being the difficult one here today but of course it's a belief. You believe their accounts. You haven't experienced it yourself. You believe them, so it is nothing more than a belief.

Best wishes.

greybeard
18th May 2018, 15:40
With the Tibetans there is not a whit of belief. What they write about is only experienced based. The literature is somewhat ponderous to navigate, but the teachings of what is regarding reincarnation is there. They have even charted the various stages of the dying process and entry into the bardo in great detail.

One of the teachings states that when a highly realized lama dies the body shrinks after death. Sometimes to only hair and fingernails, sometimes to a small body that is left. Also, a highly realized lama will enter a state called tukdam after death. Here the body does not go into rigor mortis but remains soft and worm. especially around the heart. There is a book about the death of the 16th Karmapa that is fascinating. Sorry, I don't remember the title. The book tells the story of his death from cancer in a Cleveland hospital. He left explicit instructions not to touch his body for three days after his death. Lots of corroboration to this story from those nurses and doctors who attended him. He went into tukdam for 3 days. His body did not rot and his heart area remained warm. After three days the tukdam ceased and he was placed in a casket for transport back to India. On opening the casket in India his body had shrunk by over half during the journey. One is left with the clear impression that the 16th Karmapa died as an example to Westerners of what the death process actually is for a highly realized human. A most remarkable story.

In the Tibetan culture there is a tradition called tulkus. A tulku is a reincarnated high lama. All Dalai Lamas, Panchen Lamas, Karmapas, and others are reincarnated beings. This carries on the teachings of a particular sect wherein the head lama reincarnates for the benefit of others. Is this a belief for me? No. It is a learned teaching from those who know. Those who have been there. The teaching is not a belief and my reception of it is therefore not a belief.

Also, there is no control gained over the process. Remember, there is no "I" who would control anything. There is, then, an intuitive realization that THAT which is one (God) simply continuously creates. Continuous creation with love in the realm of the senses. When one recognizes this as a constant stream and jumps into the stream, awakening occurs and reincarnation falls away. All who have made the jump and have chosen to write about it do not miss their personal "I" with its attended "story" at all. The pitifully small "I" is replaced with an all encompassing blend of love and intuitive knowing. Which the Tibetans call compassion.

The unseen realm is vast yet that which happens there affects all of us deeply. The Tibetans know this unseen realm intimately. This knowing comes through the intuition. The most positive means of "knowing". I choose to learn from their experience.

For the sake of discussion anf not saying Im right.
In my uderstanding
One ness --is not in need of improvement.
One without a second ---there is no subject no object---
The person can do all of the things you suggest and as you point out that takes many life times in Maya.
The path gets narrower and narrower eventually there is the realization that while the striving etc was necessary at the time, it does not actually achieve Self Realization--
enlightenment--it does raise the spiritual vibration within the confines of restricted consciousness.
Its not an easy task.

Life times are perhaps gone through in a process of elimination--neity neity --not this not this.
The only thing that can be agreed upon is that I exist.
Who is this I?
Can it be improved upon?
It witnesses improvement within the person but am I the person?
Anything subject to change is not eternal is not the Truth

Have you read "I am That" by Nisargadatta?
The Truth lies within the pages of that book or any book about Ramana Maharshi and many many other--all saying the same thing--one consciousness one soul.
The Bible--God became all that is without diminishing Himself--I am that I am.

Is anything exterior needed to know that I exist?
Self realization is exactly that the misunderstandings fall aside to reveal the One Self.

Im not trying to convince anyone.
Just saying what I believe to be so.

Chris

Nasargadatta quote

If you seek reality you must set yourself free of all backgrounds, of all cultures, of all patterns of thinking and feeling. Even the idea of being man or woman, or even human should be discarded. The ocean of life contains all, not only humans. So, first of all abandon all self-identification, stop thinking of yourself as such-and-such or so-and-so, this or that. Abandon all self-concern, worry not about your welfare, material or spiritual, abandon every desire, gross or subtle, stop thinking of achievement of any kind. You are complete here and now, you need absolutely nothing.

http://www.azquotes.com/author/17650-Sri_Nisargadatta_Maharaj

Mark (Star Mariner)
18th May 2018, 15:55
If we 'know it all' in the afterlife then what is the point of incarnating to learn lessons?

To put ourselves to the test. Our minds are full of everything we have learned when we graduate university. But that's not the end at all. In fact, our journey has only just begun.

I was being a tad trite when I said 'we know it all' before we incarnate. I should've said we have everything we need to equip us for our time on this level.

But there are many other levels above this one, which we are yet to glimpse, and to glimpse them we have to travel the learning curve. That's what drives us. It's the same in our physical lives - we want to better ourselves while we're here, improve our prospects, and expand our horizons. It's very much "as above, so below" and vice versa. Michael Newton's book series starting with "Journey of the Soul" lays it out really well.

With each new (vibrational) level attained comes a new set of adventures and possibilities. This Earth is just one and a small one at that.

But in summary, 'knowing' is one thing, putting to the test what we know is very much another. :handshake:

Caliban
18th May 2018, 16:49
If we 'know it all' in the afterlife then what is the point of incarnating to learn lessons?

To put ourselves to the test. Our minds are full of everything we have learned when we graduate university. But that's not the end at all. In fact, our journey has only just begun.

I was being a tad trite when I said 'we know it all' before we incarnate. I should've said we have everything we need to equip us for our time on this level.

But there are many other levels above this one, which we are yet to glimpse, and to glimpse them we have to travel the learning curve. That's what drives us. It's the same in our physical lives - we want to better ourselves while we're here, improve our prospects, and expand our horizons. It's very much "as above, so below" and vice versa. Michael Newton's book series starting with "Journey of the Soul" lays it out really well.

With each new (vibrational) level attained comes a new set of adventures and possibilities. This Earth is just one and a small one at that.

But in summary, 'knowing' is one thing, putting to the test what we know is very much another. :handshake:

We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.

That's TS Eliot. And I think he was right. I don't think there are "many levels above us," unless you mean the Us that are the little minds inside these little bodies right now. Learning is all remembering.

O Donna
18th May 2018, 19:22
Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?

Amnesia.
Or have you forgotten?

https://yoginiyenta.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/img_9841.jpg

Ernie Nemeth
18th May 2018, 21:38
I think we might limit, because of our own limitations, the idea of Totality. If we are all One then there is only one. No matter what else this is the base of reality. If so, then when we are in the "All", between lives, as Star Mariner pointed out, we are The One, totality. I think we consider this as a concept instead of understanding that this is the only actual or absolute context. It is the ground of being. The personal awareness of the little me is, according to many traditions, the gift of the Creator or the mystery of life. But when we shed the body the mystery becomes known in the totality of All. We each are The One, that is a concept. There is only The One, is the only true context.

It's a brain buster, for sure.

But the heart seems to know easy enough...

Wind
18th May 2018, 22:36
We only remember what we need to remember in any particular point in time.

Do you understand this?

The person you were hundred lifetimes ago was not same person you are now, even though that life remains as a part of you.

You are not ultimately person the with this name, identity, upbringing and experiences that you have had in your current life.

The person you think you are is your garment. You don't have to remember the past to know what you are.

You are Consciousness which is eternal.

Elpis
19th May 2018, 03:21
I believe in the evolution of the soul. I believe we are here to learn from all our life experiences. I’m not sure that we actually choose how or when we will incarnate or that we choose the family to incarnate to. I tend to believe that is chosen for us. I also don’t necessarily believe when we do reincarnate that it is in the future. I believe once our souls leave these bodies awareness expands and it enters back into the pool of consciousness from which it came.

I read once that death was like taking off a pair of shoes that were way too tight.

A little side note ~ I don’t think I have shared this here before but if I have, forgive me.

As a child, on each birthday before blowing out the candles on my cake, I would wish for a white horse with wings.

During a past life regression in my vision I was back during the Revolutionary War. I was a young American Indian woman with a husband and small son. I was washing clothes by the river while my son was playing next to me. The soldiers came and killed my entire village, including my husband and son. Just as I was being murdered, lying on my back looking up to the sky, I saw my husband and child waiting for my spirit to join them as they sat above on a white horse with wings.

I hadn’t thought about that birthday wish in years. It all seemed to make sense to me after that. I have to say, I have no American Indian relatives (as far as I know). Plus, I’m blonde and blue eyed.

It was a fascinating experience; filled with sight, sound, touch and smell.

With Love

greybeard
19th May 2018, 06:07
For me its simple
Do i want to listen to theories about!!!
or do I want to listen to the enlightened--those who have crossed the river of consciousness.
The enlightened are uniform in what they say ---on Realization of the Self there is no person left.
No ego---only consciousness---only awareness--impersonal.
The person never existed its the illusion---the play of consciousness.
Enlightenment literally means removal of ignorance--the ignorace being that there is an individual soul.
Only "God " is and you are That.

Mind changes--beliefs change --
That which looks through the eyes has not changed one iota ---ever--it is eternal-eternal is not timebased.

People talk of oneness without a full realization of what that is.
Its not a part of its not joined to--it is not separate in anyway what soever.

Best description is found in ancient Sanskrit text---One without a second
Thousands of years before Christ said---The Father and I are One

The Holographic universe comes close to an explanation.

Chris

TomKat
19th May 2018, 11:48
There is one way out of reincarnation and that has been pointed to by mystics of various cultures for many thousands of years and that is Enlightenment.
That means literally freedom from ignorance---the ignorance being that you are separate from the creator, that you are the persona, that you are a completely separate person.

Self Realization is another name for Enlightenment.
Realization of the Self means discovering your true Self---you were never born you do not die you are the eternal One Self.
Non duality means One without a second --thats what you are.

So you have choice--there are all sorts of stories that lead you away from truth and keep you on the karmic wheel of reincarnation.
So either you believe the stories or look at Non-duality and discover for your self the truth.
One you know the Truth then there is no need for repeated reincarnation, you have exited the school of life--you have graduated.

I used to believe in the power of realization. But realization is a temporary thing. I think one has to dissolve anything that keeps one from naturally occupying that new enlightened state. Lots of shadow work.

TomKat
19th May 2018, 11:52
I highly recommend not believing the 'trap' argument as that's the trap! This 3D reality promotes 'victimhood' to no end. It's so bad that most people clearly cannot see what they're participating in. Ever watch someone go through the medical madness of a serious illness such as breast cancer? Victim-hood is heavily promoted and encouraged. You are told it's your gene's, blah, blah, blah...Thanks to Dr. Bruce Lipton we know this isn't true! But the medical industry heavily promotes victimhood ensuring that you never think you can heal yourself and the only way out is their non-effective chemotherapy which by the way doesn't kill the cancer stem cell!

Research past life regressions from a variety of sources not just one, very important. You will see patterns and from what I've seen, the patterns don't suggest a 'trap', but rather you are here to learn and grow. The 'trap' meme is fear based. You are immortal and there is nothing to fear, even more so when reincarnation is basically telling you this reality isn't what's real. Take a close look at Robert Schwartz work, buy his books where he shares case study. I believe he talks about the soul learning anywhere from 26 to 32 virtues before the complete the process.
http://yoursoulsplan.com/

The Life As School theory tends to break down when one's recall extends past thousands of lifetimes, though :-)
I suspect it has more to do with boredom.

Bo Atkinson
19th May 2018, 12:23
The dream state has provided me a better respect for odd memories and dreams which increasingly feel like past reincarnations. So here i add some relatable aspects of other states, which might shed light on reincarnation. Finally i have time and focus in my life to explore restful sleep-state dreaming, but with an investigative intent, to take notes and a serious interest in the content, especially the seeming dream visions, sometimes had. I manage some helpful impartiality in this endeavor.

The masters of conscious-meditation carrying the material-mental body into astral realms or expected enlightment, does not necessarily sound more authoritative nor transcending, to me. To demand that authoritative masters know best, has not been attractive. Given time, i try before i buy ideas or methods. Though i spent my whole life in such exchanges and keep a large collection of memorable artifacts, in a detached sort of way. As i recognize the materialistic, literalist world, but without prioritizing it. My ruralist edge lets me observe the overwhelming surge of technologies. While i listen closely to the inner guidance which calls the materialism yet another dream state, or simulation.

I am openly exploring the internet of adventure.

Excerpt from SURFING IN THE CEREBRAL HEMISPHERE follows. By DAVID CHRISTOPHER LANE (Free download in PDF, on Line,copyrighted )


"In the mystical literature on the subject, accessing the subtle realms usually entails deep meditation, which primarily includes sitting very still for long stretches of time and concentrating on inner lights and sounds until one consciously enters in the awakened state.
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In virtual reality, the neophyte simply dons a headset and turns on the preset program and then in a second or two finds himself or herself completely encased in a 3-D wonderland. The former is achieved by dint of one’s concentration, whereas the latter is accomplished by some remarkable feats of hardware and software engineering. Yet, both resemble each other in truly remarkable ways: from feelings of being out of the body to scintillating lights shows, to adventures across spatial landscapes.

I, myself, have been a lifelong meditator and have practiced shabd yoga for over 40 years and though I am the first to admit that a meditative experience is different than a VR one, there is no question that they mirror each other in a number of ways and that in the near future it seems exceedingly obvious that anyone will be able to enjoy a simulated “astral” trip without resorting either to prolonged meditation or ingesting psychedelic drugs. And because VR is so easy and (here is a conscious pun) mindless, it will go viral throughout the human population, just as radio and television and the Internet have done before.

In a very real sense, we are downloading the astral plane--or, more precisely, our idealized versions of it.
It is truly an eye-popping experience to put on Google Cardboard (with your inserted iPhone), touch a button, and then find oneself enveloped in a game such as In Mind (produced by the Russian company Nival), where one travels in a 3-D brain mock-up setting off (and/or correcting) different firing neurons and getting deeper and deeper into the walls of fibrous architecture, while you sit still and your physical body goes nowhere. Add to this the very odd sensation of feeling as
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if you have no body and are encompassed in a completely different world where seeing 360 degrees is the norm.
This particular VR voyage reminded me of Paramahansa Yogananda’s first experience of cosmic consciousness where he wrote:

“My body became immovably rooted; breath was drawn out of my lungs as if by some huge magnet. Soul and mind instantly lost their physical bondage, and streamed out like a fluid piercing light from my every pore. The flesh was as though dead, yet in my intense awareness I knew that never before had I been fully alive. My sense of identity was no longer narrowly confined to a body, but embraced the circumambient atoms. People on distant streets seemed to be moving gently over my own remote periphery. The roots of plants and trees appeared through a dim transparency of the soil; I discerned the inward flow of their sap. The whole vicinity lay bare before me. My ordinary frontal vision was now changed to a vast spherical sight, simultaneously all-perceptive. Through the back of my head I saw men strolling far down Rai Ghat Road, and noticed also a white cow who was leisurely approaching. When she reached the space in front of the open ashram gate, I observed her with my two physical eyes. As she passed by, behind the brick wall, I saw her clearly still. All objects within my panoramic gaze trembled and vibrated like quick motion pictures. My body, Master's, the pillared courtyard, the furniture and floor, the trees and sunshine, occasionally became violently agitated, until all melted into a luminescent sea; even as sugar crystals, thrown into a glass of water, dissolve after being shaken. The unifying light alternated with materializations of form, the metamorphoses revealing the law of cause and effect in creation. An oceanic joy broke upon calm endless shores of my soul. The Spirit of God, I realized, is exhaustless Bliss; His body is countless tissues of light. A swelling glory within me began to envelop towns, continents, the earth, solar and stellar systems, tenuous nebulae, and floating universes. The entire cosmos, gently luminous, like a city seen afar at night, glimmered within the infinitude of my being. The sharply etched global outlines faded somewhat at the farthest edges; there I could see a mellow radiance, ever- undiminished. It was indescribably subtle; the planetary pictures were formed of a grosser light. The divine dispersion of rays poured from an Eternal Source, blazing into galaxies, transfigured with ineffable auras. Again and again I saw the creative beams condense into constellations,
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then resolve into sheets of transparent flame. By rhythmic reversion, sextillion worlds passed into diaphanous luster; fire became firmament.”
VR is astral travel for nerds. Imagine what this technology is going to look and feel like in a decade? We will live so deeply inside these VR realms that telling the difference between what is real and simulated will increasingly blur to the point of meaninglessness.
This is not hype, since what I glimpsed was quite literally a cardboard rendition of a future VR which will be exponentially far beyond anything we can presently imagine. And it is not a distant future since in 2016 the market will be flooded with a whole series of VR products…

Mark (Star Mariner)
19th May 2018, 13:00
For me its simple
Do i want to listen to theories about!!!
or do I want to listen to the enlightened--those who have crossed the river of consciousness.
The enlightened are uniform in what they say ---on Realization of the Self there is no person left.
No ego---only consciousness---only awareness--impersonal.

I understand you Chris, and I'm totally with you. But what I am sharing I do not consider theory; a very great amount of it comes direct from the Spirit World, and through multiple sources. And that's the interesting thing - multiple sources across decades, even centuries, and what they all report tallies. The soul, reincarnation, karma, etc. It is the same.

Those who consider themselves 'enlightened' here on earth have a great many wonderful things to report, I agree. With regards self-realization, and arriving at a sense of oneness - that's fantastic, but I don't see it as an end. It seems more like a beginning to me. Where does one go from there?

:heart:

greybeard
19th May 2018, 16:04
Yes Star Mariner.
Its down to context ie about this thread getting out of reincarnation.
Several "enlightened" ie David R Hawkins for one have said higher beings would regard enlightenment as kindergarten.
However its not a person, as we would term it that continues.
There are many paradoxes.

Time is an invention of restricted consciouses--everything, it seems happens in this holy instant.

So Enlightenment is a change of perspective not understood by non enlightened mind.

Dr Hawkins likened the energy that we are, to electricity, different voltage but non the less electricity.
Christ and The Buddha being of the highest energy that the human body could contain.
He also said on a logarithmic scale comparing Christ to Angels --Christ at 1000 --angels 40,000.

So we are in agreement.

Self realization is the discovery that we are nothing but formless energy (my explanation) and enlightenment not an end to it
There are levels of enlightenment and every level seem complete---therefore I would not argue with the statment that Nisargadatta made that he is the Ultimate.
So are you, I and everything else.

Form, formless both and neither.

Some in India on becoming enlightened exclaimed--"I am the totality all of it"
That was their new perspective
Adyashanti a mystic of our time said more or less the same.

All the Ocean of awareness seeming to be different waves.

So for the moment--smiling--Self realization will do just nicely-- I have no need nor desire to come back.

Kundalini awakened spontaneously within me--I did not know what it is--only later discovered what this awakening means

So back to the subject of the thread--enlightenment gets you out of the cycle of death and rebirth.

What happens after? Well im open minded but I know its not the end of this awareness.

Nice having this discussion, Star Mariner.
Thank you
Chris

greybeard
19th May 2018, 16:51
A couple more thoughts.
A Course in Miracles was a channeled work and to my mind its a positive helpful piece,
However The book of Revelations according to the late Dr Hawkins was channeled from the lower astral and of a low vibration.
There are those in the lower astral who delight in human suffering.
So its not that easy to tell where the entity (spirit) on the other side is coming from or what agenda they might have.

I have got single minded over the years and things I delighted in are now seen as a distraction--this does on invalidate them.
Basically its easier for me to trust what is coming from the realm of consciousness through the enlightened, as yet there are not many of them but there seems to be an uplifting of consciousness here and now.

Chris

Ernie Nemeth
19th May 2018, 17:28
To Star's question, "Where do you go from there?". Before enlightenment, tend the garden. After enlightenment, tend the garden. (paraphrased)

It can't be understood in linear mind. It is more akin to turning the channel and "tuning" inan entirely different channel with radically new content but with more repercussions. It is not a gradual evolution. It is instant. Consider a number line that grows by one every second. At what point does the number line cross over to infinity? It doesn't, ever. That is linear mind. What actually must occur is an infinite leap from one second to the next, a transcendence.

There are numerous reports of people with various sorts of brain trauma that from one day to the next suddenly begin speaking with an accent or even speaking a new language they had no way of knowing before. How can something that fundamental, from our usual experience and perspective, be altered in an instant? These are aspects of consciousness that we simply do not understand.

In the hologram model of the universe there is the interference pattern. What is that but a sophisticated information packed template. But what is the substrate, the medium that gives it structure and meaning? In a sense, the interference is a vibration or perturbation or inclination - an impulse. The interference is a change, a difference a relative displacement. From this to that is what is says below the surface chaos.

That is the miracle. How can the One become anything but what it already is? So it says, in that interference, in that smack on the head, in that other channel, in that garden, "From the One to the one, to the One, to the one, to the One, to the..."

Loren
19th May 2018, 17:46
This was a fun topic . My most recent approach to my life is to not focus on past events as I've already experienced them and if you believe your thoughts create your reality then I only need to focus on what I now want and not hold myself in a cycle or old recurring habitual thought process that keeps me from feeling good ,to have fun and be happy.From what I understand,you never get it done and it's your choice through default or conscious choice. If we have endless choices here then I would imagine we have choices in reincarnating as well.Lots to ponder here. Thank you all.L

Mark (Star Mariner)
19th May 2018, 18:57
So back to the subject of the thread--enlightenment gets you out of the cycle of death and rebirth.

You might be right, Chris. With enlightenment comes inner peace, and with inner peace a true vista of the self is revealed. And then everything's possible. Yet, with how I view the Spirit World, I believe that when we are over there, between lives, we are infinitely more than the sum of our person now, in the physical life. We are therefore already enlightened, and if enlightenment was the goal on earth, there'd be no point in incarnating.

The fundamental point, I believe, is (or maybe was in the beginning) to explore the Creation, and explore free will within Creation, and add to ourselves (and Creation). But mankind got lost along the way and drifted out of balance with God - the ALL - and the natural spiritual laws that govern the ALL. There are many aspects that induced this downward curve or influenced it, but this is what I believe generated the endless incarnation cycle we find ourselves in.

A lot of us would quite like to get out of here now and move on, but enlightenment isn't the ticket by itself - it's how we conduct ourselves once we're enlightened. I really believe that in a nutshell the goal to 'getting out' is not what or how we think, or how we see, how we feel, or what we believe, it's what we DO with our lives. That's what truly counts.


What happens after? Well im open minded but I know its not the end of this awareness.

I think it's just the beginning mate. There are a hundred billion galaxies out there, with a hundred billion stars in each. I'd be very disappointed to think we'd contain ourselves to just one planet throughout all our eternal existence. And this is just one dimension too. Who knows how many there are?... :cool:


Nice having this discussion, Star Mariner.
Thank you
Chris

Thank you Chris. It is as always most...enlightening!

shaberon
19th May 2018, 21:31
In the Tibetan culture there is a tradition called tulkus. A tulku is a reincarnated high lama. All Dalai Lamas, Panchen Lamas, Karmapas, and others are reincarnated beings. This carries on the teachings of a particular sect wherein the head lama reincarnates for the benefit of others. Is this a belief for me? No. It is a learned teaching from those who know. Those who have been there. The teaching is not a belief and my reception of it is therefore not a belief.



I apologise for being the difficult one here today but of course it's a belief. You believe their accounts. You haven't experienced it yourself. You believe them, so it is nothing more than a belief.

Best wishes.

That's kind of a reductionist approach. It's almost like saying there is no such thing as Tibet because you've never been there, or that nuclear physics is hocus pocus because you can't see atoms and don't understand it.

The Tulkus' wisdom is subtle, profound, very difficult to understand, but if one merely hears and believes in it to begin with (called "sravaka"), to the extent one is willing to train, then you will learn it all by personal experience. That is what the system is. Discarding belief for self-knowledge. All of the teachings and trainings serve that purpose only. Along the way, it completely removes doubt. Such doubt is among the gravest of sins, in fact, if you take this training and then doubt it, you will be annihilated.

Edit: to clarify my meaning, we maintain there are Lights that are experienced after death, which are the same as experienced by training in Yoga during life. From a personal point of view, having experienced what this actually means, removes doubt that death is different.

MorningFox
20th May 2018, 08:43
In the Tibetan culture there is a tradition called tulkus. A tulku is a reincarnated high lama. All Dalai Lamas, Panchen Lamas, Karmapas, and others are reincarnated beings. This carries on the teachings of a particular sect wherein the head lama reincarnates for the benefit of others. Is this a belief for me? No. It is a learned teaching from those who know. Those who have been there. The teaching is not a belief and my reception of it is therefore not a belief.



I apologise for being the difficult one here today but of course it's a belief. You believe their accounts. You haven't experienced it yourself. You believe them, so it is nothing more than a belief.

Best wishes.

That's kind of a reductionist approach. It's almost like saying there is no such thing as Tibet because you've never been there.



It's not like that at all, there are millions and millions of pictures and videos and accounts of Tibet and if I chose to I could fly there tomorrow. You could liken it more to believing in Bigfoot. Sure, there are lots of accounts of bigfoot but you probably haven't experienced it yourself and can only hear the accounts of a few people. That's a belief, not a knowing. I know Tibet exists. I believe Bigfoot may exist.

I think it's probably healthy to admit that you believe in reincarnation, but you do not know it to be a fact.

turiya
20th May 2018, 13:52
So I suppose members here in this forum believe that we, human-kind, had been created and trapped by aliens on this Earth for millennia (if you think this is not correct, please enlighten me).



Basically, not!
First of all, nobody can enlighten another. One can only enlighten oneself.

How to do that?
Well, the mystics have been telling humanity ever since 'the fall of man', how this can be realized.
Nobody can meditate for you. Meditation is the art of relaxing into your own being, into your own aloneness. At the very core of your being lies the connection to the Creationery Source. Experiencing this for oneself, realizing this for oneself, and all questions disappear.

The notion that human beings are trapped on this planet is nothing but BS. This is nothing more than total propaganda that is spread around by people that want to justify their own inability to see beyond their own egocentric noses. This is an attempt to explain their own shortcummings, misunderstandings, misconceptions & feelings of separation from the Creationery Source of all that is.

These people simply do not have a clue. And, more so, they would like others to join in with them in having this limited view. Because, misery loves company. It is a self-created misery. And to have company, seemingly, will help to justify the lodging of a complaint, as to why such people are feeling so inadequate & out of place.

Remember... Everyone that is on this planet is here because of their own willingness to take part in a grand experiment. Yes, this is a grand experiment. And this planet Earth, who herself is a conscious being, had also agreed to be a part of this experiment. Earth is playing the host of this experiment.



Consider this... there are basically three categories of beings that exist within this Universe. These are: non-physical beings (i.e. angelic beings) semi-physical beings (ETs) physical human beings

This grand experiment began when Creationery Source created this physical Universe. The human being part of this experiment began when the non-physical entities posed the question to the Creationery Source in the following way:

'This physical Universe is quite wonderfully beautiful. There are so many things to see, places to go, much to observe. It is visually stunning.

However, there are things that we angelics would like to do with the creation that is not at all possible.

For example, there are planets to visit where there are beautiful things that are growing & living. There are flowers of many colors, a wide variety of living things. Animals that interplay with one another. But we, as angelics, are not able to participate with the creation. We cannot smell a flower, we cannot touch or feel what these are like. We would like to particpate with all of that which has been physically created.
Hence, the Creationery Source decided to create the human being - a physical vessel - for the angelics to occupy so that they could experience this physical Creation for themselves... So they could smell the fragrance of rose flower, taste the sweetness of a mango, breathe in the freshness of the air that gives life to all living things.

Yes, we are non-physical angels at the core of who we are. Many call it the very soul of our being.

When the first human beings had been created, it was truly possible for the angelics to be capable of using all the powers that they initially had as non-physical beings. They could communicate with each other non-verbally, tele-transport by intention, develop a rapport with other living creatures on the planet. In other words, 100% of the soul occupied the physcial body.

However, being the experiment that it is, it soon became apparent that these higher capabilities appeared to dissipate over time. And as unfortunate as it was, this 100% of the soul in the phsycial form had to be divided into two. Hence, the physical self (25%) & the higher self (75%).

This is also referred to as 'the fall of man.'

This division of the soul manifested in this way: the ability to psychically communicate (commune) with others dropped significantly. The ability to transport by thought process came to an end. A verbal & a written language needed to be developed in order for people to communicate with each other. And, as we all know, verbal & written communication often leads to miscommunication & misunderstanding. Along with this came more difficulties - the rapport with other living beings (animals) came to an end, distrust grew increasingly more prevalent. Fear of others grew. The feeling of separate-ness increased. People became more divided. This gave rise to various religions with each of their own systems of belief.

Things, then of course, got worse.

Earth, as the living host of this human experiment, had a meeting with the human collective consciousness. And, it was decided that Earth would give a time period for the human collective to find the answer to the problem that presently exists. The Earth gave human beings 7,000 years to come up with the answer as to what was needed so that 100% of the soul could again be retained within a physical human body form.

In other words, human beings are allowed to live a certain period of time, through the reincarnation process, to come up with an answer to the problem of why the physical human body was unable to contain 100% of the soul.

So, as you can see, this is not a prison planet at all. Reincarnation is a gift for us human beings to live life, time after time, life after life, to have a more complete understanding of what it is to live a human physical life.

Of course, then, it is your own decision, to either look at your present situation as living in a prison. Or, you can also look at it as a wonderful gift, an opportunity to grow, and enjoy this life for what it is.

Valerie Villars
20th May 2018, 14:26
Turiya, that was a beautiful explanation. I call Earth "Angel University".

Thanks for bringing a smile to my face. :waving:

Elpis
20th May 2018, 16:20
I consider all religious beliefs to have some spark of truth buried within them. I don’t necessarily hold one higher than the other. I do believe in the evolution of the soul. I also believe it to be a separate entity all unto itself. I have no idea where it goes once it leaves this plane or if it comes back. Perhaps it returns to a collective consciousness possibly to prepare for round two, three, four or one thousand. I choose to remain open to all possibilities which are infinite. I choose to have faith in a power greater than me to lead the way.

Much Love

O Donna
20th May 2018, 19:13
Consider for a moment that reincarnation occurs every moment of every day, not so much as a past or future event.

https://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/finger-kaleidoscope.gif

woomap
20th May 2018, 19:21
Thank you all for your contributions! I really appreciated that! Members of this forum are so active in sharing & posting ideas!

I think trying to prove whether this 3D reality we're all living in was a trap or not is kinda a difficult task. Almost impossible for many of us to do, as it's not easy to have first-hand experience for evidences. However, I'll try sharing a personal story here with you all. I won't bet that you'd believe my story, but I hope at least some of us here can understand it and are willing enough to find out for yourselves.

So a long while ago, I started practicing Falun Gong, or Falun Dafa, an ancient Qiqong practice from China (I think one member did mention about this practice somewhere in this thread, probably the 1st page if I don't remember it wrong!). So Falun Gong was supposed to be initiated by the master named Li Hongzhi, though this master claimed that he simply learnt the technique from his older masters, some were claimed to be immortals who lived on mountains, isolated from the society. According to Li Hongzhi, the practice is of a higher level than almost all other kinds of Qiqong practices which mainly aim to benefit human's physical health. Falun Gong, on the other hand, aims to release humans' hidden spiritual abilities. Also, according to Mr. Li, Falun Gong was rooted way back then during previous civilizations on Earth. The practice was not invented during our current civilizations, he claimed. Last but not least, he also believes in the aliens' trap theory, and said that the aliens' agenda is to replace humans, via science & technology. Note that he said that in 1999, in an interview with TIME, obviously forshadowed the upcoming Singularity that we're seeing now.

There's more to the story about Falun Gong, but not necessary for me to mention in this post. Now, after practicing the techniques for a while (2 years now), I've been 'witnessing' enough experiences which tell me that what Mr. Li claimed about his practice wasn't BS. During the first weeks of practicing, I've had weird experiences like the sensations of my own body vibrating; having my 'spirit' sucked up from the bed during sleeping; being able to see things when my physical eyes closed (only sometimes when sleeping); being able to foresee things in my dreams that'd actually take place in real life (usually hours later after I wake up). I know this is just mere talking, so I'd encourage to try practicing the technique and experience them for yourselves. (they're 5 extremely simple exercises, only patience is required)

So, on one hand, I have Mr. Li claiming the existence of aliens and the trap, on the other hand, I know that his techniques aren't BS, through first-hand experiences. Plus, what he teaches are very desirable ethical values for anyone: Truthfulness, Compassion, Forbearance. That's why I resonate more with the trap theory. And guys, I personally don't think that believing in such a theory makes one surrendering/weak/lost/withdrawn from his own life. One can be both aware of the subtle manipulating strings from those aliens and at the same time enjoy '3D Earth' the best he can. :-)

shaberon
21st May 2018, 07:11
I think it's probably healthy to admit that you believe in reincarnation, but you do not know it to be a fact.

People believe that death is an unknown, but do not know this as a fact.

There is not any evidence we can give such as pictures; it is within Gnosis; a "different kind" of fact.

MorningFox
21st May 2018, 07:49
I think it's probably healthy to admit that you believe in reincarnation, but you do not know it to be a fact.

People believe that death is an unknown, but do not know this as a fact.

There is not any evidence we can give such as pictures; it is within Gnosis; a "different kind" of fact.

A belief :ROFL:

greybeard
21st May 2018, 08:20
All Times Take Place Now
Rupert Spira

Reincarnation is perhaps a misnomer.

This video is not for the close minded--but it may shed new light on the subject of this thread.
Most people have a challenge changing their belief system and this video will be a challenge for some--enjoy it though.

Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvxmdQJJob4&t=45s

Wind
21st May 2018, 11:46
A belief :ROFL:

When you don't know, you don't know. When you know, you just know.

Bo Atkinson
22nd May 2018, 08:49
So I suppose members here in this forum believe that we, human-kind, had been created and trapped by aliens on this Earth for millennia (if you think this is not correct, please enlighten me).

[...]

In other words, human beings are allowed to live a certain period of time, through the reincarnation process, to come up with an answer to the problem of why the physical human body was unable to contain 100% of the soul.

So, as you can see, this is not a prison planet at all. Reincarnation is a gift for us human beings to live life, time after time, life after life, to have a more complete understanding of what it is to live a human physical life.

Of course, then, it is your own decision, to either look at your present situation as living in a prison. Or, you can also look at it as a wonderful gift, an opportunity to grow, and enjoy this life for what it is. [/INDENT][/INDENT]

May we have options of gratitude for deeper curiosity? With which to question all aspects of earth management and nature’s employment.

Avalon does have a rich sharing of experiences, not to be confused with “prison planet” characterizations of commercial websites. May we tolerate personal sharing of seemingly wild stories of authentic experiencers? Therewith to examine evidence or just ask with curious concerns? Thanks woomap, i hope you will feel welcome to share much, much more.

Traps? So far unmentioned here, is the ecocide of our environment, partly due to the tacit approvals of human lifestyles, by so called civilized men and women. We may have begun to question the sensibility of our consumerism, professionalism, legalism, but this is not obsessive trap- phobia. I find it both sober and cosmically comedic. I can now pass my older years more freely.

Whether it is lowly human governance or galactic-spiritualization, managing nature with cross-purposes, has me enduring what transpires as a predatory-parasitic theater. We cite the long list of false flag operations, 911, Fukushima, microwave mind-control, the Gulf Spill, countless wars for pillaging, death by medicine, poisoned food policies, whistle blowers, legalized slavery, non sensical governance, censoring, suppressing, etc…

While i count many wonderful things in my life, i also survived electronic hijacking of my brain, actually ambulating me near to death (http://harmoniouspalette.com/CostFreeHVAC/HeadInjury-NaturalCure.html) , or was it a “de-incarnation”, which provides an experiencer’s view, for me to question and to probe the efficacy of the incarnated life scheme. I am not bothering to intellectualize it. I lived through it and therefore am compelled to describe personal experience. Which furthermore activates awareness of the collective, (or consensual), madness.

Bo Atkinson
22nd May 2018, 10:30
I think the reason for the memory thing is that the totality of us cannot fit into this incarnation. Yet all parts are accessible with the right key.
[...]



Ah, yes to that. I would agree but also differently and respectfully so. I was born on April 1st to push me steady, outside of the kontrol system, (largely outside of popular notions of success and worldly respect).

I recently and humbly found something which feels like a key or a pass code. It speaks to me in symbols. I sing it daily, but not as a hymn or mantra. I rather work this as a bypass of the human blinders and the kontroller implants. In this respect i had already parted ways with the notion that life is all benign and that love manages all strings nicely. I have earnestly explored that idea most of my decades. I steadily went back to the idea it is rather a challenging game, instead of “hope, faith and belief”. I struggle with my experience of unraveling symbols, to live through the physical, mental, emotional and psychic outcomes. Overwhelming in some respects, but also fun to take the risks, to explore the plays.

The odd thing, it is not especially attractive to all who hear of it. I make efforts to share it, in spurts, as a collective consciousness opens more possibility, whether accepted, or rejected.

Valerie Villars
22nd May 2018, 13:32
"Avalon does have a rich sharing of experiences, not to be confused with “prison planet” characterizations of commercial websites. May we tolerate personal sharing of seemingly wild stories of authentic experiencers? Therewith to examine evidence or just ask with curious concerns? Thanks woomap, i hope you will feel welcome to share much, much more."

Wavydome, I like the way you express this. We all need a safe place to talk about our seemingly inexplicable, unprovable, formerly unimaginable experiences. I know mine blew the top off my head and completely wrecked my life at the time.

What really happened? I still don't know. But, I do know we are all expressions of God. As to the mechanics of it or the amount of manipulation and mind control we are subject to here, I just can't say definitively. Therefore, I think it is of the utmost importance we share our wild stories of authentic experiences, so we can help each other. Each of us has a piece of the puzzle.

woomap
22nd May 2018, 17:24
So I suppose members here in this forum believe that we, human-kind, had been created and trapped by aliens on this Earth for millennia (if you think this is not correct, please enlighten me).

[...]

In other words, human beings are allowed to live a certain period of time, through the reincarnation process, to come up with an answer to the problem of why the physical human body was unable to contain 100% of the soul.

So, as you can see, this is not a prison planet at all. Reincarnation is a gift for us human beings to live life, time after time, life after life, to have a more complete understanding of what it is to live a human physical life.

Of course, then, it is your own decision, to either look at your present situation as living in a prison. Or, you can also look at it as a wonderful gift, an opportunity to grow, and enjoy this life for what it is. [/INDENT][/INDENT]

May we have options of gratitude for deeper curiosity? With which to question all aspects of earth management and nature’s employment.

Avalon does have a rich sharing of experiences, not to be confused with “prison planet” characterizations of commercial websites. May we tolerate personal sharing of seemingly wild stories of authentic experiencers? Therewith to examine evidence or just ask with curious concerns? Thanks woomap, i hope you will feel welcome to share much, much more.

Traps? So far unmentioned here, is the ecocide of our environment, partly due to the tacit approvals of human lifestyles, by so called civilized men and women. We may have begun to question the sensibility of our consumerism, professionalism, legalism, but this is not obsessive trap- phobia. I find it both sober and cosmically comedic. I can now pass my older years more freely.

Whether it is lowly human governance or galactic-spiritualization, managing nature with cross-purposes, has me enduring what transpires as a predatory-parasitic theater. We cite the long list of false flag operations, 911, Fukushima, microwave mind-control, the Gulf Spill, countless wars for pillaging, death by medicine, poisoned food policies, whistle blowers, legalized slavery, non sensical governance, censoring, suppressing, etc…

While i count many wonderful things in my life, i also survived electronic hijacking of my brain, actually ambulating me near to death (http://harmoniouspalette.com/CostFreeHVAC/HeadInjury-NaturalCure.html) , or was it a “de-incarnation”, which provides an experiencer’s view, for me to question and to probe the efficacy of the incarnated life scheme. I am not bothering to intellectualize it. I lived through it and therefore am compelled to describe personal experience. Which furthermore activates awareness of the collective, (or consensual), madness.

I'm sure it's posts like this that will keep attracting Avalon more & more members with diverse insights into the topic of spirituality. Thank you wavydome for such positive energy and warmth! May this spirit always be with all of us!

Yep, I agree that assuming the aliens' trap is non-existent, then the global issues which you & other members here have mentioned are, for me, more than enough to prove just how restrained/trapped we the people are on the daily basis. We don't even need the aliens to make us question the sanity of the way this world works.

Anyway, it's soooo good to hear and learn from all the different perspectives! I find this the most rewarding experience whenever I participate in forums like this. So thanks again everyone for your contribution! May all the best be with all of us!

greybeard
22nd May 2018, 18:13
The statement "Only God is and you are That"
Scares the ego/persona and it will come up with all kinds of interesting ideas---you are not an idea.
You were never born will never die.
Reincarnation and what we seem to experience is part of Maya part of the illusion of separate consciousness,
Mystics say from tier own experience that there is only One consciousness.

However we must act according to which ever level of consciousness we are in (no level better than another)
The actor will finally leave the character on stage and return to reality.

In Bagavad Gita

"God wrote the play
God produces the play
God Directs the play
God is the actor in the play
God is the witness of the play"

Belief or ancient Truth???

Chris

petra
22nd May 2018, 18:17
While i count many wonderful things in my life, i also survived electronic hijacking of my brain, actually ambulating me near to death , or was it a “de-incarnation”, which provides an experiencer’s view, for me to question and to probe the efficacy of the incarnated life scheme. I am not bothering to intellectualize it. I lived through it and therefore am compelled to describe personal experience. Which furthermore activates awareness of the collective, (or consensual), madness.

Me too. The compelling feeling is strong as well. I think some people are more compelled to NOT talk about it though. Perhaps people like us don't embarrass easily - I found a lot of it was really quite embarrassing, but after awhile I guess I built up a tolerance.

I don't have any problems with further activating the collective awareness, I wouldn't call it "madness" though. Maybe more like a dream. Quite a bit of nonsense, but not random :)

I've begun to consider the possibility of incarnating places other than Earth, and in my mind, Earth is like the "kiddie pool" of places to incarnate. We're nice and safe here in "Little Kid World", but other places are not so safe - and perhaps we need to work up to it. Safety first! And that's the thing that I'd like to keep at the top of my mind before do any more incarnating.

petra
22nd May 2018, 18:27
Therefore I'd like to say the following: the universe isn't random - far from it, in fact*. Everything happens for a reason. So try not to see life as a burden, but try to learn from your experiences. Even the negative ones.

Just my 2 cents :)

*That is not to say that there is no randomness in existence, however. Because there actually is a random component to the universe due to the fact that we all have free will. But that is balanced out by the universe's deterministic component, which is brought about by the rules of natural law that we are all bound by. So while not literally everything is predetermined because of our free will, our actions are bound by natural law making us subject to their consequences (cause and effect, or karma).

I found this part particularly interesting due to going into detail about random components.

I'd just like to add, compare to the Law of Averages. No matter how many times you flip that penny, it's going to work out to approximately 50% heads.
In my mind the universe is not any different. It's like a gambling machine, but when you get down to the guts of how it works, you realize it's just the law of averages + cycles. Nothing random about that.

shaberon
22nd May 2018, 18:51
A belief :ROFL:

When you don't know, you don't know. When you know, you just know.

Yes; well, this thread pre-supposes reincarnation axiomatically. I was originally trying to amplify Enigma's comment. I may not have used the best analogy with "Tibet is a belief unless you've personally experienced it"; yes, we could fly there tomorrow for the proof, but most of us won't. We will all fly to death someday. And so, our criterion for truth, amongst most reincarnationalist schools in general, is not proof like pictures; it is moral value. In the light of which, quite a fair few scientifically proven things are themselves false, because they lack value. Which summarizes most of Western civilization and its accompanying mentality.

There is no need to believe a thing I said because I said it, but, if one experiences what it actually means, this is of far greater value than skeptical attendance on "pictures of death". The only instrument really used in our studies is the human being, which has the ability, generally unused, to gain the experience. Even with most of the population lacking experience, changes nothing about nature's hidden processes.

Ernie Nemeth
22nd May 2018, 22:06
I love this world, it's life, it's people. But I absolutely, without equivocation detest the world of man! We are better off without it.

bobme
23rd May 2018, 02:48
The statement "Only God is and you are That"
Scares the ego/persona and it will come up with all kinds of interesting ideas---you are not an idea.
You were never born will never die.
Reincarnation and what we seem to experience is part of Maya part of the illusion of separate consciousness,
Mystics say from tier own experience that there is only One consciousness.

However we must act according to which ever level of consciousness we are in (no level better than another)
The actor will finally leave the character on stage and return to reality.

In Bagavad Gita

"God wrote the play
God produces the play
God Directs the play
God is the actor in the play
God is the witness of the play"

Belief or ancient Truth???

Chris

Do you assume god is you, and not merely the creator of this universe?

Would that be the ulimate ego, to demand worship to one god? Look around the world right now. All the I am the right religions, killing each other for their god.

Reincarnation may be just learning this creators universe. Just to better understand them.

Just an additional perspective thought.

shaberon
23rd May 2018, 03:42
Bhagavad Gita mentions God nowhere. It couldn't possibly; God is a ca. 5th century Gothic term. The Gita was simply one of the first Indian pieces translated into English, and the techniques have been carried forward. The term usually translated as such is "Deva", which simply means a luminous being. Their term for "Creator" is Brahma, and any worship of Brahma is forbidden. Brahma dies and is reborn like a very big person, is imperfect, sometimes a liar. This seems fundamentally different than the stance of Abrahamic traditions. In English, people may be using God to mean different things, needing clarification each time.

Bob
23rd May 2018, 04:24
I love this world, it's life, it's people. But I absolutely, without equivocation detest the world of man! We are better off without it.

Ernie - could we possibly rephrase that as to "detest the behavior?" One doesn't hate or detest the child, one can be awfully uncomfortable with a behavior. Ya? A behaviour can be changed, the baby needs guidance. The world has all the life and death in it, the dreams the failures the moments..

Maybe find a behaviour. I today just tossed out a behaviour that I had held onto, hoping it would change. In the 'hope' it only became more of a monster, even pushing me to think as you have said.. It took me 12 hours to sort through the experience.. I am recognizing it's the behaviour and those who hold certain aberrant behaviours as their 'god' that I detest. Why I detest it is so that I can see it strongly enough to be 'real to me'..

greybeard
23rd May 2018, 06:32
The statement "Only God is and you are That"
Scares the ego/persona and it will come up with all kinds of interesting ideas---you are not an idea.
You were never born will never die.
Reincarnation and what we seem to experience is part of Maya part of the illusion of separate consciousness,
Mystics say from tier own experience that there is only One consciousness.

However we must act according to which ever level of consciousness we are in (no level better than another)
The actor will finally leave the character on stage and return to reality.

In Bagavad Gita

"God wrote the play
God produces the play
God Directs the play
God is the actor in the play
God is the witness of the play"

Belief or ancient Truth???

Chris

Do you assume god is you, and not merely the creator of this universe?

Would that be the ulimate ego, to demand worship to one god? Look around the world right now. All the I am the right religions, killing each other for their god.

Reincarnation may be just learning this creators universe. Just to better understand them.

Just an additional perspective thought.

According to the mystics its not an assumption its their reality.
God realization Self Realization
Its not ego for its an egoless state
The Ultimate is pure love without any characteristics
Best look up Tim account of Enlightenment --first hand.
He says it better than I could.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43027-Enlightenment-A-direct-succinct-account-of-what-occurs...&p=456904&viewfull=1#post456904

Chris

O Donna
23rd May 2018, 06:48
What I find evident, especially threads of this nature, are that we often reading or/ and write with filtered eyes without realizing it. Sometimes people are disagreeing when ultimately they are saying much the same thing.

Ultimately everything boils down to two things and with a little more determination..... one. So. really. I should have led with that lol

Anyways, enjoy NOW, it is really all we 'know' for sure. Will we know if NOW ever ends? We will never 'know'. ;)

greybeard
23rd May 2018, 06:51
Bhagavad Gita mentions God nowhere. It couldn't possibly; God is a ca. 5th century Gothic term. The Gita was simply one of the first Indian pieces translated into English, and the techniques have been carried forward. The term usually translated as such is "Deva", which simply means a luminous being. Their term for "Creator" is Brahma, and any worship of Brahma is forbidden. Brahma dies and is reborn like a very big person, is imperfect, sometimes a liar. This seems fundamentally different than the stance of Abrahamic traditions. In English, people may be using God to mean different things, needing clarification each time.


Yes you are correct
Ramesh Balsekar I quoted, as quoting the Gita.
Brahma would have been the original before he translated it for English speaking reader.

Advaita---non duality use the the definition of "God" as One without a second.

I agree with you regarding the word god--all things to all people--different definitions.

The Buddhists dont speak of a god but speak of enlightenment (The Awakened one)

not expecting anyone to read what I posted prior where I likened "God" to electricity.
We are all that electricity/energy but different strengths of that energy.
Dr David Hawkins map of consciousness

http://www.stankovuniversallaw.com/2012/01/the-map-of-consciousness-hawkins-scale/


God-view Self-view Level Log Emotion Process

Self Is Enlightenment 700 – 1,000 Ineffable Pure Consciousness

All-being Perfect Peace 600 Bliss Illumination

One Complete Joy 540 Serenity Transfiguration

Loving Benign Love 500 Reverence Revelation

Wise Meaningful Reason 400 Understanding Abstraction

Merciful Harmonious Acceptance 350 Forgiveness Transcendence

Inspiring Hopeful Willingness 310 Optimism Intention

Enabling Satisfactory Neutrality 250 Trust Release

Permitting Feasible Courage 200 Affirmation Empowerment


We are all enlightened we just dont know it---yet

Chris

greybeard
23rd May 2018, 10:29
I might seem a bit single minded, but Enlightenment is the only way that I have heard, repeatedly, to get out of reincarnation.
Enjoy this life to the full but no need to come back.

Chris

Watching from Cyprus
23rd May 2018, 11:42
Hi and welcome woomap,

As nobody here really knows if we reincarnate or it is just an illusion, let me tell you what I am going to do. When its my time to go, If I too see the Tunnel with the light in the end saying "come to the light" with sweet music etc, I am truly going to turn around and search the other directions, as Robert Morningsky advised, there could be our star and real home. The light might be the reason our memories are blanket out/erased, before recycling..

Sincerely, to me this is the most important message i ever had and hope it can help others too, again, if the tunnel is real. Dont be afraid of going to hell in the other direction, as we are in hell right now.

Love and Flames from Peter :wizard:

Bo Atkinson
23rd May 2018, 12:50
I might seem a bit single minded, but Enlightenment is the only way that I have heard, repeatedly, to get out of reincarnation.
Enjoy this life to the full but no need to come back.

Chris

Thanks Chris, I have liked that idea too. I explore many ideas through life.

Perhaps this is also a little bit like someone asking, “how can i get to the far country?” and a wise man says that the great masters unanimously prefer the rail system. The far country is not clearly listed in travel bookings and that same name commonly appears used for all sorts of locations. Progress is lacking, even after years of travels.

Personally, i have separately read that the days of the master are passing into history. Loving remembrances remain but the means and methods offered are a bit like the near countries using similar location names, some even of great interest. Reincarnation is also to become completely optional, for those with the heart for choices. We can perceive reincarnation from the teachings of this master or that master, or the imagination faculty alone. We choose.

This new writing asserts that the Real Far Country can be reached in the here and now, even without dying first. The far country can be visited if we wake up all the way, from the dream which we call human life, into a realer dream, apparently reached through human sleep. Some people awaken the next day ‘arrived’ , in some new way. Some declarations will red flag this. I’m the risk taker, going very deep…

Tibetan dream and sleep yoga appears intricate to study and human masters were/are advised (or even demanded). I just read an interesting, introductory book, to get an overview and compare a few points. The older systems appear a bit “belief oriented”. This new dream arena, which i mention, for reaching the real far country, simply reformats the need of the older languages and the older processing content. Simplified, Americanized slang is used, but actually requiring patience with it all.



Edit later in June:
I was anticipating that more would come from this”far country” as the books promised. I feel it best to just say the NU Books are over rated as are so many spiritual things in our world. With further risks of wasting time in spiritual traps which reach questionable “far countries”. I decided to remove the “NU song video, which was just not feeling worthy for the record here.
As of June 2018, I am seeing a whole new side of the NU Presentation:
http://harmoniouspalette.com/Blog2018.html#june2018

avatar
24th May 2018, 15:17
Just wanted to thank you so much for this forum. It is so nice to be able to connect with others asking the same kinds of questions a person has, without feeling weird for asking. Keep up the good work. Blessings Bill

Ernie Nemeth
26th May 2018, 11:33
We may have reincarnation pictured wrong, just as the entire accepted world view is skewed toward a sanctioned view by our controllers.

There is the idea that everything happens at once. And physicists agree that time is what keeps everything from happening at once. The idea is hampered by our own common sense because of course everything does not happen at once. But what if...

What if every moment creation begins anew? What if every moment everything is destroyed, recycled and released - then recreated fresh and new. It is a radical concept, yet it violates no known law of physics. In fact in physics, the arrow of time is completely reversible. Time is arbitrary, in the most advanced physics.

What if our linear lives are circular, spiral, helical? What if, instead of other lives we live every life, all of us? You lived mine and I lived yours. How long would I remember my life as you when you stand before my eyes now? What if instead of re-incarnation there is omni-incarnation? If your life now was my life then, which is more real, more vivid, more important? Which one counts and which were trial runs?

If we live every life, we would really be totality. We would truly be All there is.

And we would be equal parts of One great extensive Whole.

I would not need to remember my past lives - because You are that.

greybeard
26th May 2018, 16:35
Hi Ernie, posted this video before but its in line with your thinking.
Also Ive read somewhere that the creation pulses in and out off existence.

Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvxmdQJJob4&t=179s

O Donna
26th May 2018, 17:24
Why the rush to return to source when source is guaranteed? There is no need to be of anxious planning on how to obtain the (golden) ticket when you already have the ticket in your hand.

turiya
26th May 2018, 18:04
Why the rush to return to source when source is guaranteed? There is no need to be of anxious planning on how to obtain the (golden) ticket when you already have the ticket in your hand.


Reminds me of what Swami Nithyananda had to say regarding destiny vs freedom of choice...


http://articles.nithyananda.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/558346_349860831768440_1664746645_n-300x200.jpg (http://articles.nithyananda.org/2012/08/the-science-of-vedic-astrology/)
(paraphrasing)...

Enlightenment is the destiny of every human being. But, one has the freedom to choose how much one can be distracted while on the way.

Wind
26th May 2018, 22:20
You are the Source.

A small fragment of it anyways.

shaberon
27th May 2018, 02:55
Ramesh Balsekar I quoted, as quoting the Gita.
Brahma would have been the original before he translated it for English speaking reader.

Advaita---non duality use the the definition of "God" as One without a second.

I agree with you regarding the word god--all things to all people--different definitions.

The Buddhists dont speak of a god but speak of enlightenment (The Awakened one)

not expecting anyone to read what I posted prior where I likened "God" to electricity.
We are all that electricity/energy but different strengths of that energy.


Gita is the speech of Krishna. Krishna is not Parabrahman, Krishna is Vishnu. Object of the highest knowledge.

Parabrahman is unknowable; Adwaita states that man's inmost essence is non-different from this ("not two").

Yes, all life proceeds from One Life, running in circuits that produce conscious energy as well as material energy. For us, conscious control of the death and rebirth processes is possible. This is to effectively bypass Brahma or the Creator; Kalachakra upholds his severed head. Mastery of the horse-like life force by the rider-like mind.

O Donna
27th May 2018, 04:32
Why the rush to return to source when source is guaranteed? There is no need to be of anxious planning on how to obtain the (golden) ticket when you already have the ticket in your hand.


Reminds me of what Swami Nithyananda had to say regarding destiny vs freedom of choice...


http://articles.nithyananda.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/558346_349860831768440_1664746645_n-300x200.jpg (http://articles.nithyananda.org/2012/08/the-science-of-vedic-astrology/)
(paraphrasing)...

Enlightenment is the destiny of every human being. But, one has the freedom to choose how much one can be distracted while on the way.

Succinct, well played/ described/ paraphrased.



You are the Source.

A small fragment of it anyways.

Yes, I had that in mind when writing my post, Wind. Consciously I struggle with naming names, even using words like 'source' as it often leads me into a duality/ ego trap way.
When composing a post I try to remember that names are but 'place holders' in the world of thoughts/ things.
It's of no wonder to me that spiritual writings throughout history are filled with stories/ analogies when attempting to describe the otherwise indescribable.

O Donna
27th May 2018, 06:08
.: Add :.


It's an illusion to think that source is, or ever is, really distracted. It seems, in human language, a distraction is really but a distraction of another distraction, remindings of quantum entanglement.

greybeard
27th May 2018, 06:25
Ramesh Balsekar I quoted, as quoting the Gita.
Brahma would have been the original before he translated it for English speaking reader.

Advaita---non duality use the the definition of "God" as One without a second.

I agree with you regarding the word god--all things to all people--different definitions.

The Buddhists dont speak of a god but speak of enlightenment (The Awakened one)

not expecting anyone to read what I posted prior where I likened "God" to electricity.
We are all that electricity/energy but different strengths of that energy.


Gita is the speech of Krishna. Krishna is not Parabrahman, Krishna is Vishnu. Object of the highest knowledge.

Parabrahman is unknowable; Adwaita states that man's inmost essence is non-different from this ("not two").

Yes, all life proceeds from One Life, running in circuits that produce conscious energy as well as material energy. For us, conscious control of the death and rebirth processes is possible. This is to effectively bypass Brahma or the Creator; Kalachakra upholds his severed head. Mastery of the horse-like life force by the rider-like mind.

Yes
Definately from the Gita.

"Those who know me as their own divine Self break through the belief that they are the body and are not reborn as separate creatures. Such a one, Arjuna, is united with me."

Ramesh quote
Im fairly certain he said it came from the Gita
but this is my memory of over twenty years back.
"Events happen, deeds are done
thee is no individual doer there of"

Chris

ps I found this


All there is is Consciousness

Ramesh S. Balsekar

Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof

Buddha

Self-realisation is the total realization that there is no one to realize (or achieve) anything

Ramesh S.Balsekar

greybeard
27th May 2018, 06:56
Also found Krishna quote.

"Remembering me at the time of death, close down the doors of the senses and place the mind in the heart. Then, while absorbed in meditation, focus all energy upwards to the head. Repeating in this state the divine name, the syllable Om that represents the changeless Brahman, you will go forth from the body and attain the supreme goal."


"Every creature in the universe is subject to rebirth, Arjuna, except the one who is united with me."

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/hindu2/2014/10/100-great-bhagavad-gita-quotes-from-krishna/

Bo Atkinson
27th May 2018, 12:00
Does emotional empowerment utterly disempower, one’s actual enlightenment? Bring on the distraction of perfecting duality, the unconquerable, vicarious “can’t have”. The excruciating yearning which blinds sensibility, but feels, oh so good (?) Great beings of light are ecstatically imprisoned, rolled up in technicolor film, or dimmed down in theatrical shadows, of a fickle love, all for a moment, in the now, (regarding the averages among listeners). The true liberation ideal is marketed, in a comparable but materialistic manner, playing on the feelings of love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVzYxqG9N1c

Wind
3rd June 2018, 15:10
"We all retain, however faintly, memories of past lives, we frequently feel that we have witnessed a scene or lived through a moment in some previous existence, but that is not essential; it is the essence, the gist, the result of experience, that are valuable and remain with us."

~ Quoted from The Esoteric Tradition, II, 641, by G.de Purucker

"Man is an immortal, eternal being manifesting through an infinite sequence of bodies, each a little nobler than the one before. We are here today doing the things that we are doing today because of this sequence of lines. The things that we are doing today will become the elements of later existence, bodies without end."

"All growth is motivated by karma; that is, action and reaction. It is karma which makes reincarnation necessary in order that compensation may justly be administrated."

~ Manly P. Hall

Theresa
3rd June 2018, 16:32
The answer to this question is so simple and so complicated. Stop repeating history. When we learn and become enlightened to the point of understanding the cycles of manand nature and can look at it and see all of the intricate balances, the balances of all living things, the way that so many things work in harmony, you can stop the endless cycle and become the designer of your path. Knowledge, understanding, love, control over your choices and no longer being a victim in the sea of change but working with it. Embracing these things and memories, latent knowledge, a rebirth to the connection of the cycles and tides of life is inevitable. Stop repeating your history and this stops the repetition of the tragedies of the world. I have no guru, no teacher, nothing other than my ability to listen to the world and to remember hard learned lessons from all of history.

O Donna
4th June 2018, 01:14
Reincarnation is like watching the washing machine do it's thing. One can imaging being a pair of jeans tumbling around working to get clean (hmmmmm) but at some point catch glimpse doing so. At no point were, are, or will one be the jeans no matter how convincing it seems.

Never underestimate the power of imagination, even while catching self writing about it.

http://hrefna.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/IMG_20131021_090849-MOTION.gif

Chris
6th June 2018, 16:22
There is no doubt in my mind that achieving rainbow body is the only way out of this matrix and the cycle or reincarnation (Samsara). It is the end result of the process of Enlightenment, which itself starts with what is known as a Kundalini Awakening. According to the ancient shastras, any Yogi that can keep the Kundalini in his crown Chakra for 3 days and nights, will have lodged it there permanently. Anyone who can do this, which is extremely rare, is a Jivanmukta, someone who can walk around in the ordinary world in a permanently enlightened state. Gopi Krishna was one example of this. However, acquiring a rainbow body goes even beyond that and it requires further spiritual work, which was brought to us by the Buddhist saint Padmasambhava. Those that achieve this shed their physical body upon death, which turns into a shrunken husk of ash over 7 days and nights. The whole body transforms into a rainbow-coloured light body, which has been witnessed countless times by Buddhist adepts, mostly in Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and India. We even have some photos of someone turning into a rainbow body. There have been 160.000 documented cases of this in the countries mentioned above and it is widely believed that those that achieved rainbow body will never be reborn again.

Ernie Nemeth
6th June 2018, 16:55
The Source is nastagia based. Same but new, over and over.

triquetra
7th June 2018, 06:53
There is no doubt in my mind that achieving rainbow body is the only way out of this matrix and the cycle or reincarnation (Samsara). It is the end result of the process of Enlightenment, which itself starts with what is known as a Kundalini Awakening. According to the ancient shastras, any Yogi that can keep the Kundalini in his crown Chakra for 3 days and nights, will have lodged it there permanently. Anyone who can do this, which is extremely rare, is a Jivanmukta, someone who can walk around in the ordinary world in a permanently enlightened state. Gopi Krishna was one example of this. However, acquiring a rainbow body goes even beyond that and it requires further spiritual work, which was brought to us by the Buddhist saint Padmasambhava. Those that achieve this shed their physical body upon death, which turns into a shrunken husk of ash over 7 days and nights. The whole body transforms into a rainbow-coloured light body, which has been witnessed countless times by Buddhist adepts, mostly in Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and India. We even have some photos of someone turning into a rainbow body. There have been 160.000 documented cases of this in the countries mentioned above and it is widely believed that those that achieved rainbow body will never be reborn again.

Holding something as per the above to be true, as per the tradition of the spiritual schools that pursue them, while simultaneously considering a more modern perspective afforded by newer developments in alternative methods of obtaining information, such as the following, might provide the most balanced answer to the question:

mNXYuteD4rQ

In other words, such achievements as that of obtaining the rainbow body must be understood in the context of what is going on here ordinarily. The reason why it takes such extreme spiritual achievement might have something to do with the possibility that there is a kind of energetic "force field" which artificially creates the reincarnation cycle.

That spiritual adeptness is such a rarity might say more about how far we have been led away from such pursuits than it does about how amazing it is to achieve such a thing. Perhaps the most amazing thing about such spiritual achievements is that they can occur despite the soul being put in an environment that is extremely hostile towards making this kind of progress.

There is more RV data incoming that will hopefully provide an even better context to develop this discussion.

In the meantime, consider a proposition:

What are we to do, we who are not these dedicated spiritual practitioners that can achieve these states through relentless "full-time" individual effort? What chance do we have as "regular" people who are much more integrated with the kind of mainstream society that pulls us far, far away from such pursuits so that we can even function basically in our society?

The answer might be that we need a kind of teamwork that is nothing like anything our current civilization has ever seen (but that may well have been coordinated in a similar manner long, long ago, longer ago than (our) recorded history can even fathom).

Think of it this way - the individual achieving rainbow body escapes the cycle by effectively tuning and amplifying the energy of their spirit body to the point where it can pierce the energetic force field and escape through sheer individual escape velocity alone.

What we need to do is a bit different, more like building an organic technology device by using ourselves as components within it.

Thus we resort to the summing of many contributing energetic signals rather than one alone. Does it still require a certain amount of spiritual development? Yes. But is it something a bit more realistic for the rest of us wanting to escape the (artificial) reincarnation cycle? Also yes, so long as the necessary auxiliary technology is invented and introduced in order to coordinate the task.

Information about that last bit is also coming soon as well.

Things are always meant to seem so hopeless these days, but don't ever forget that this is primarily the result of the dark blanket cast on us to keep us in the dark. It is still blindingly bright out there beyond the force field. If you manage to pierce even the tiniest hole through it, you will see just how much light there is ready to pour in when we tear the whole thing to pieces.

Limor Wolf
7th June 2018, 07:48
Originally posted by triquetra: Thus we resort to the summing of many contributing energetic signals rather than one alone. Does it still require a certain amount of spiritual development? Yes. But is it something a bit more realistic for the rest of us wanting to escape the (artificial) reincarnation cycle? Also yes, so long as the necessary auxiliary technology is invented and introduced in order to coordinate the task.

Information about that last bit is also coming soon as well.

Things are always meant to seem so hopeless these days, but don't ever forget that this is primarily the result of the dark blanket cast on us to keep us in the dark. It is still blindingly bright out there beyond the force field. If you manage to pierce even the tiniest hole through it, you will see just how much light there is ready to pour in when we tear the whole thing to pieces.
Parent Post

And perhaps that's the whole thing, perhaps that's not tearing the hole in the shaft of the magnetic synthetic technology that is pulling into it's reincarnation recycle based on the accumulation of billions of the programmed emoting, solidified, densified consciousness of the residents of a planet and one's own previous cording to it's artificial grid to allow only a few to get out, but the shutting off of that same force field with the Original version that is inside, that came from the out for that purpose alone many moon(s) ago

Thank you for growing and nurturing the bright point of view, triquetra

Many blessings ~

Sunny-side-up
7th June 2018, 11:54
Hi woomap, this is always an interesting subject.
My quick views on it here:

woomap:
So I suppose members here in this forum believe that we, human-kind, had been created and trapped by aliens on this Earth for millennia (if you think this is not correct, please enlighten me). So basically we, as souls (our truest "self") had been reused/reincarnated/re-employed over and over again within different human shells for each lifetime we lived on Earth.

My question is: does any member here have any solutions to how we could possible end this seemingly endless cycle of reincarnation and sufferings? (I'm not talking about suicide because that would only help end this current incarnation, not the whole trap system)

I look forward to hearing from everyone here. Thanks!!



Wind:
Default Re: How to get out of the endless Reincarnation cycle?
As far as I know, the only way out of samsara is to clear your karma and attain a state of non-attachment. Easier said than done though!




(woomap)
So I suppose members here in this forum believe that we, human-kind, had been created and trapped by aliens on this Earth for millennia)
Not just/only by Aliens but by the greedy and unjust who have gained power through their abuses of the meek, ultimate ones being the long blood lines, and of course our selves are part of this as well, we are not angles.

It's not a question of getting out of the 'Reincarnation cycle' it's a question of being in the natural 'Reincarnation cycle'

Not being mind wiped and abused.

There was a great debate here in Avalon some years back about the 'White Light trap' concerning the Light-Tunnel at the end of your/our lives.
I bereave this to be a 'Trap' the white light being the hijack and mind whipping process.

I personally will try not to be stuck in the light like a rabbit in a cars headlight, LOOK away and round, find your options then for good or worse it will be your choise.


(O Donna:
Why the rush to return to source when source is guaranteed? There is no need to be of anxious planning on how to obtain the (golden) ticket when you already have the ticket in your hand.)


(turiya
Why the rush to return to source when source is guaranteed? There is no need to be of anxious planning on how to obtain the (golden) ticket when you already have the ticket in your hand.
Reminds me of what Swami Nithyananda had to say regarding destiny vs freedom of choice...

(paraphrasing)...

Enlightenment is the destiny of every human being. But, one has the freedom to choose how much one can be distracted while on the way.)

Yes and Yes exactly :)

Bo Atkinson
7th June 2018, 12:45
Here is an attempted paraphrase from my readings,
reportedly formulated by Pythagoras, (HYLOZOICS).

The reincarnation-institution is not responsible for our state of affairs, since the ’souls’ have their freedom according to the law of freedom. Popular terminology largely fails and deserves practical coordination. Eastern and western terms are too dependent on inexactly evolved meanings.

Recommending: Be prepared!

Prepare the causal mind!

causal NOT casual !!!! lol

Oxford Dictionary:

causal /
▶ adjective relating to or acting as a cause: the causal factors associated with illness .
• Grammar & Logic expressing or indicating a cause: a causal conjunction .
→ causally adverb

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

casual /
▶ adjective
1. Relaxed and unconcerned: a casual attitude to life .• made or done without much thought or premeditation: a casual remark .
• done or acting in a desultory way: to the casual observer, rugby looks something like football .
• done or acting without sufficient care or thoroughness: the casual way in which victims were treated .

2. Not regular or permanent, in particular:• employed or established on a temporary or irregular basis: a casual worker | casual jobs .
• (of a sexual relationship or encounter) occurring between people who are not established sexual partners: casual sex had never been her scene .

3. [attrib.] happening by chance; accidental: he pretended it was a casual meeting .
4. Without formality of style or manner, in particular (of clothing) suitable for everyday wear rather than formal occasions: a casual short-sleeved shirt | an ideal coat for casual occasions .

O Donna
7th June 2018, 16:58
Cannot get out of reincarnation if cannot get out of mind
Since 'you' and 'mind' are linked like tangled particles there can be no confirmation of escape
Other then knowing there was nothing to escape from in the first place.

As Janice Joplin sang from "Me and Bobby McGee"


Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose
Nothing, I mean nothing, honey if it isn't free, no no

What do you got to lose?

greybeard
7th June 2018, 17:42
Thoughtless awareness would seem to be an option.
Different Yugas have different "methods"
Seems it may not now be necessary to be fully commit ed to the various spiritual practices---but fully committed to knowing the Truth.
Be still and know that I am God--would apply.

Mooji recommends be quiet be still.

As O Donna is pointing to--- the mind cant get it--the mind of persona is ego based and it is not in the ego's interest to be free of it.

All Yogis amazing feats are real in Samsara but not so in non dual Reality.

If there is choice it would seem that you choose to reincarnate because you enjoy the distractions of Maya--the inevitable drama of duality

Duality is opposites
The pain and pleasure different sides of the same coin.
That which brings you pleasure brings you pain.

Non duality --the Yoga of Union releases the illusion of separation---no one there to reincarnate.

One without a second remains--conscious awareness is eternal.

Just saying

Of course a "May be so"

Chris

Scottoz
10th June 2018, 07:33
This is an interesting thread, lots of interesting thoughts.

I have often wondered what I would do, if I was to pass from this life, and saw a big shiny tunnel of light with beings of light which were trying to get my agreement to reincarnate into another life, what exactly would I do.

I wonder what the best strategy would be, should we try to get far away from the light as possible, or should we call down our Higher Self to connect with it to rescue us out from the dark soul net. Or maybe just be difficult and not agree with anything which the so called beings of light request when we encounter them on the other side (who are just really just acting as prison wardens dressed as light beings). It would be interesting to know how much this process is fully automated and the extent to which free will comes into it (if any).

Hopefully, with our group efforts and new technologies that Triquetra is talking about we can work out a way to shatter the dark layer which entraps us, and it won’t matter anyway.

Cheers


Scott

Chris
10th June 2018, 08:40
This is an interesting thread, lots of interesting thoughts.

I have often wondered what I would do, if I was to pass from this life, and saw a big shiny tunnel of light with beings of light which were trying to get my agreement to reincarnate into another life, what exactly would I do.

I wonder what the best strategy would be, should we try to get far away from the light as possible, or should we call down our Higher Self to connect with it to rescue us out from the dark soul net. Or maybe just be difficult and not agree with anything which the so called beings of light request when we encounter them on the other side (who are just really just acting as prison wardens dressed as light beings). It would be interesting to know how much this process is fully automated and the extent to which free will comes into it (if any).

Hopefully, with our group efforts and new technologies that Triquetra is talking about we can work out a way to shatter the dark layer which entraps us, and it won’t matter anyway.

Cheers


Scott

I have a feeling that it all comes down to your own personal belief system. If you believe in Jesus, it will be Jesus, if it is Shiva, then it will be Shiva that meets you in the afterlife.

The way I understand it, the divine can take whatever form you choose, but in the end there is no difference between the various forms and names. That said, there still are what we would call avatars, personification of the divine that are specific to one point in time and space and these all have their distinct personalities and characteristics. The One Infinite rejoices in acting out various dramas with different actors, that is why it has created what we call Maya, this world of illusions.

However, the picture gets more complicated if we consider the Gnostic view, which says that what most of us would consider God, Yahweh, is actually the demi-urge and his angels are the Archons. In this world view, the illusory world we inhabit is designed to lead us away from our true nature and is therefore malevolent. God and his angels are seen as highly misguided, but Jesus is seen as a saviour that came from outside the matrix to help those that follow him escape it.

This is what the Matrix movie was about, if you were wondering. The architect in the Matrix Movie is the demiurge, the agents are the archons and Neo is an allegory of Jesus. The movie is even more accurate in that it shows those that have escaped the matrix inhabiting, a vast, technologically hyper-advanced underground realm. Those underground civilisations really exist as we now know from various whistleblowers and I have seen them myself in Lucid Dreams and when I inadvertently projected myself astrally into one of these places.

Limor Wolf
10th June 2018, 09:45
Originally posted by triquetra: Thus we resort to the summing of many contributing energetic signals rather than one alone. Does it still require a certain amount of spiritual development? Yes. But is it something a bit more realistic for the rest of us wanting to escape the (artificial) reincarnation cycle? Also yes, so long as the necessary auxiliary technology is invented and introduced in order to coordinate the task.

Information about that last bit is also coming soon as well.

Things are always meant to seem so hopeless these days, but don't ever forget that this is primarily the result of the dark blanket cast on us to keep us in the dark. It is still blindingly bright out there beyond the force field. If you manage to pierce even the tiniest hole through it, you will see just how much light there is ready to pour in when we tear the whole thing to pieces.
Parent Post

And perhaps that's the whole thing, perhaps that's not tearing the hole in the shaft of the magnetic synthetic technology that is pulling into it's reincarnation recycle based on the accumulation of billions of the programmed emoting, solidified, densified consciousness of the residents of a planet and one's own previous cording to it's artificial grid to allow only a few to get out, but the shutting off of that same force field with the Original version that is inside, that came from the out for that purpose alone many moon(s) ago

Thank you for growing and nurturing the bright point of view, triquetra

Many blessings ~

By going back to it's genesis, the initial point of 'IT' creation = The mistake.
When the thought, choice and act of the merge of consciousness with/as technology was initiated

Many blessings ~

chris_walker
10th June 2018, 11:48
I have a feeling that it all comes down to your own personal belief system. If you believe in Jesus, it will be Jesus, if it is Shiva, then it will be Shiva that meets you in the afterlife.

The way I understand it, the divine can take whatever form you choose, but in the end there is no difference between the various forms and names. That said, there still are what we would call avatars, personification of the divine that are specific to one point in time and space and these all have their distinct personalities and characteristics. The One Infinite rejoices in acting out various dramas with different actors, that is why it has created what we call Maya, this world of illusions.What if your personal belief system is that after you die, you wake up in another life and this, now previous life, is either remembered as a good dream or a nightmare? What if you believe you're going to wake up and it's the 70s and fun times again?

britman
13th June 2018, 12:36
We are stuck in the reincarnation cycle from an agreement we made in the beginning. It is not forever progress is made on the way as we balance our karma, until we gain an aspect of freedom in which even the freewill is put aside as restricting. It is all the book 'The Nine Freedoms', which outlines the path through Cosmic Consciousness and lives on other planets. This book is unique and will remain so. It was given through George King whilst in a selfinduced Samadhic trance by the Martian Adept Mars Sector Six, who is also a Lord of Karma. Reading this book is a life changing experience.
There is nothing more to say.

Limor Wolf
17th June 2018, 11:23
Originally posted by triquetra: Thus we resort to the summing of many contributing energetic signals rather than one alone. Does it still require a certain amount of spiritual development? Yes. But is it something a bit more realistic for the rest of us wanting to escape the (artificial) reincarnation cycle? Also yes, so long as the necessary auxiliary technology is invented and introduced in order to coordinate the task.

Information about that last bit is also coming soon as well.

Things are always meant to seem so hopeless these days, but don't ever forget that this is primarily the result of the dark blanket cast on us to keep us in the dark. It is still blindingly bright out there beyond the force field. If you manage to pierce even the tiniest hole through it, you will see just how much light there is ready to pour in when we tear the whole thing to pieces.
Parent Post

And perhaps that's the whole thing, perhaps that's not tearing the hole in the shaft of the magnetic synthetic technology that is pulling into it's reincarnation recycle based on the accumulation of billions of the programmed emoting, solidified, densified consciousness of the residents of a planet and one's own previous cording to it's artificial grid to allow only a few to get out, but the shutting off of that same force field with the Original version that is inside, that came from the out for that purpose alone many moon(s) ago

Thank you for growing and nurturing the bright point of view, triquetra

Many blessings ~

By going back to it's genesis, the initial point of 'IT' creation = The mistake.
When the thought, choice and act of the merge of consciousness with/as technology was initiated

Many blessings ~

And who's consciousness was put inside that allowed the automaton to spread into the outer realms of existence and thus 'create' the 'Architects' over the dreamers

Consciousness knows

All the best,

Many blessings ~

Limor

Sunny-side-up
27th June 2019, 15:37
Hi all this is a BUMP posting.
:bump:

Please read/skip your way through this post, I think it is important

SO IS THIS POST:

"Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Discussion-thread&highlight=white+light+trap

Both concern thoughts from many that the' Light Tunnel' at pass over (so called death) is a trap.

:sun:

¤=[Post Update]=¤

:bump:
hi again all, think before you jump, don't be a rabbit in the head lights :sun:

greybeard
28th June 2019, 17:00
To my mind anything that promotes fear is not of spirituality, that is if if you believe that Source is unconditional love.
Drama and fear sells books particularly if the author is selling the idea that he /she knows a way of salvation.
Sign up here for my course.
Ten ways to overcome X,Y andZ
You also get to join the club of fellow believers.

There is only one way out of the reincarnation cycle--that is Enlightenment

Mystics only teach removal of ignorance.--the ignorance being that you are a separate individual person,
That thought that you are a person, when remove, leads to Self Realization--the One Self--this why in India an Enlightened One is sometimes called God realized--or a God man.

Chris