Historic day, Avalonians and All (Donald Trump + Kim Jong Un)

[Eric J (Viking)]

Are things about to change rapidly?

Short clip of Dennis Rodman, who had been carrying hope for a day like today for a long time and against push-back from those who didn't quite understand, very emotional now that this day of resolution and fulfillment has finally arrived.

=====

https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1006352840674115586


(Dennis Rodman, who struck a personal relationship with Kim Jong Un: "Obama didn't even give me the time of day. I said, 'I have something to say from North Korea.' He just brushed me off.")


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAJLJRRJY3E

[David Trd1]

I just found this in the comments section below the video on youtube, really made me chuckle.....


This is absolutely classic...Dennis Rodman a black celebrity on CNN wearing a MAGA hat talking about Donald Trump achieving NK nuclear disarmament.
The producers must be having coronaries right now. You are viewing CNNs worst nightmare

[Bluegreen]

http://images.indianexpress.com/2018/06/trump-kim-759.jpg

http://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5b1f20711ae66220008b503f-750-375.jpg

:sun:

[Tam]

Look, I'm going to have to be the bad guy here, and say that we all need to relax. This is somewhat historic, in that it's the first time things have been going this swimmingly since the war, and that's great to be sure, but it isn't full-blown nuclear disarmament yet. Not even close.

The details of this summit were vague and no official agreements were made. Furthermore, NK has a history of breaking promises.

Is it a step in the right direction? Absolutely.

But is it a resounding triumph on Trump's end, and the ushering of a new era of peace between NK and the US, as well as reunification of the peninsula? Absolutely, positively not.

I know people here aren't keen on MSM sources, and I understand why and agree with most of those reasons, but you can still get some basic facts on certain sources, and completely ignoring globally agreed-upon fact in favor of alternative, highly biased news sources is downright irresponsible.

I'm NOT shilling the MSM, to be absolutely clear. I avoid most major news publications like the plague, and have very strong anti-establishment principles. But discernment is everything, my friends, and I've noticed way too many people on alternative forums reaffirming their own biases and creating echo chambers since Trump got elected. Cognitive dissonance is at an all-time high. It's like we all turned off our brains once he became President. It's unnerving.

I understand these are crazy times we live in, and you can't trust anything, but that doesn't give people the green light to up and create their own facts, their own alternative (fake) news, and just ignore reality altogether because it's too scary or inconvenient.

We need to stop this kind of behavior. Seriously. We're all better than this. We're intelligent, free-thinkers, but it seems like people are taking giant steps back as of late.

Here's a decent source of information regarding this. I know Reuters falls within the category of MSM, but sometimes, you need to look at the bigger picture, and not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa/historic-trump-kim-summit-ends-with-promise-light-on-substance-idUSKBN1J72PM

[Jayke]

Indigris, I doubt nuclear disarmament was really even talked about by Trump and Kim Jong Un, or if it was they were probably laughing about it while supping tea and talking sport. Whether North Korea has a nuclear missile or not is really insignificant to the bigger picture of what’s occurring in the Eastern hemisphere right now. Was Trump really there to discuss de-nuclearisation? Highly unlikely. Was he jockeying for position to be a key leader in the emerging SCO markets of China’s ‘One Belt, One Road’ projects? I’d say Trump has got his eyes on a much bigger prize than North Korea can offer. Making peace with North Korea is just a low hanging fruit PR stunt. One of several PR stunts he’ll have to engage in to make the bigger picture possible.

=================================================


http://thesaker.is/putin-and-xi-top-the-g61/






East vs. West: the contrast between the “dueling summits” this weekend was something for the history books.

All hell broke loose at the G6+1, otherwise known as G7, in La Malbaie, Canada, while all focused on divine Eurasian integration at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) in China’s Qingdao in Shandong, the home province of Confucius.

US President Donald Trump was the predictable star of the show in Canada. He came late. He left early. He skipped a working breakfast. He disagreed with everybody. He issued a “free trade proclamation”, as in no barriers and tariffs whatsoever, everywhere, after imposing steel and aluminum tariffs on Europe and Canada. He proposed that Russia should be back at the G8 (Putin said he has other priorities). He signed the final communiqué and then he didn’t.

Trump’s “I don’t give a damn” attitude drove the European leaders assembled in Canada crazy. After the official photo shoot, the US president grabbed the arm of new Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte and said, in ecstasy, “You’ve had a great electoral victory!”

The Euros were not pleased and forced Conte to abide by the official EU, as in German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s, policy: no G8 readmission to Russia as long as Moscow does not respect the Minsk agreements. In fact it is Ukraine that is not respecting the Minsk agreements; Trump and Conte are fully aligned on Russia.

Merkel, in extremis, proposed a “shared evaluation mechanism”, lasting roughly two weeks, to try to defuse rising trade tensions. Yet the Trump administration does not seem to be interested.

“Strategic” game-changer

Meanwhile, over in Qingdao, the stunning takeaway was offered predictably by Chinese President Xi Jinping; “President Putin and I both think that the China-Russia comprehensive strategic partnership is mature, firm and stable.”

This is a massive game-changer because officially, so far, this was a “comprehensive partnership.” It’s the first time on record that Xi has put the stress on “strategic”. Again, in his own words: “It is the highest-level, most profound and strategically most significant relationship between major countries in the world.”

And if that was not far-reaching enough, it’s also personal. Xi, referring to Putin and perhaps channeling Trump’s bonhomie with leaders he likes, said, “He is my best, most intimate friend.”

Heavy business, as usual, was in order. The Chinese partnered with Russian nuclear energy giant Rosatom to get advanced nuclear technologies and diversify nuclear power contracts beyond its current Western suppliers. That’s the “strategic” energy alliance component of the partnership.

In a trilateral Russia-China-Mongolia meeting, they all vowed to go full steam ahead with the China-Mongolia-Russia Economic Corridor – one of the key planks of the New Silk Roads, known as the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI).

Mongolia once again volunteered to become a transit hub for Russian gas to China, diversifying from Gazprom’s current direct pipelines from Blagoveshchensk, Vladivostok and Altai. According to Putin, the Eastern Route pipeline remains on schedule, as does the US$27 billion liquefied natural gas (LNG) plant in Yamal being financed by Russian and Chinese companies.

On the Arctic, Putin and Xi went all the way for developing the Northern Sea Route, including crucial modernization of deep-water ports such as Murmansk and Arkhangelsk, and investment in infrastructure. The added geopolitical cachet is self-evident.

Putin had said last week that annual trade between Moscow and Beijing will soon reach US$100 billion. Currently, it stands at US$86 billion. Now Russian businesses venture the possibility of reaching US$200 billion by 2020 as feasible.

All this frenzy of activity is now openly described by Putin as the interconnectivity of BRI and the Russia-led Eurasia Economic Union (EAEU). Not to mention that the SCO itself interconnects with both BRI and the EAEU.

Putin told Chinese TV channel CGTN that though the SCO began as a “low-profile organization” that sought merely to “solve border issues” between China, Russia and former Soviet countries, it is now evolving into a much bigger global force.

In parallel, according to Yu Jianlong, secretary general of the China Chamber of International Commerce, the SCO has now gathered extra collective strength to harness BRI expansion to increase business across Europe, the Middle East and Africa.

[B]So it’s no wonder companies from SCO nations are now being “encouraged” to use their own currencies to seal deals, bypassing the US dollar, as well as building e-commerce platforms, Alibaba-style. So far, Beijing has invested US$84 billion in other SCO members, mostly in energy, minerals, transportation (including, for instance, the China-Kyrgyzstan-Uzbekistan highway), construction and manufacturing.

Putin also met with Iranian President Hassan Rouhani on the sidelines of the SCO and vowed in no uncertain terms to preserve the Iranian nuclear deal, known as the JCPOA.

Iran is a current SCO observer nation. Putin once again reaffirmed he wants Tehran as a full member. The SCO charter determines that “a dialogue partner status can be granted to a country that shares the goals and principles of the SCO and wants to establish relations based on equal and mutually profitable relationship.”

Iran, as an observer, fulfills the commitment. The spanner in the works happens to be tiny Tajikistan.

Enter the trademark convoluted internal politics of the Central Asian stans, in this case revolving around Tajik president Emomali Rahmon accepting Saudi Arabia’s acquisition of a 51% stake in Tajikistan’s largest bank. Nobody else wanted it; Riyadh was just buying influence.

All SCO full members must be approved unanimously. Still, that won’t prevent larger economic integration between Iran, Russia and China. The talk in the SCO corridors was that Chinese companies expect an extra bonanza in the Iranian market after the unilateral Trump pullout of the JCPOA.

Behind closed doors, as diplomats told Asia Times, the SCO also discussed the crucial plan devised by the SCO-Afghanistan Contact Group, an Asia-wide peace process with Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan trying to finally solve the decades-long tragedy without Western interference.

So what about a G3?

The “dueling summits” clearly set the scene. The G7 meeting at La Malbaie represented the dysfunctional old order, dilacerated by largely self-inflicted chaos and its apoplexy at the Rise of the East – from the integration of BRI, EAEU, SCO and BRICS, to the yuan-based gold-backed oil futures market.

In contrast to the G7’s full spectrum dominance doctrine of total military superiority, Qingdao represented the new groove. Implacably derided by the old order as autocratic and filled with “democraships” bent on “aggression”, in fact it was a graphic illustration of multi-polarity at work, the intersection of four great civilizations, an Eurasian Café debating that another, non-War Party conducted future is possible.

In parallel, diplomats in Brussels confirmed to Asia Times there are insistent rumbles about Trump possibly dreaming of a G3 composed of just US, Russia and China.Trump, after all, personally admires the leadership qualities of both Putin and Xi, while deriding the Kafkaesque EU bureaucratic maze and its weaklings, currently represented by the M3 (Merkel, Macron, May).

In Europe, no one seems to be listening to informed advice, such as provided by Belgian economist Paul de Grauwe, who’s pleading for Frankfurt and Berlin to manage a common debt, without which the EU won’t survive the sovereign crises of individual members.

Trump, for all his dizzying inconsistencies, seems to have understood that the G7 is a Walking Dead, and the heart of the action revolves around China, Russia and India, which not by accident form the hard node of BRICS.

The problem is the US national security strategy, as well as the national defense strategy, advocate no less than Cold War 2.0 against both China and Russia all across Eurasia. All bets are off, however, on who blinks first

==============================================

The mainstream media are worth keeping an eye on for many reasons, but for understanding the bigger picture, It’s always worth digging a little deeper. Peace with North Korea is still a major step forward, regardless of the underlying motivations for making it happen.

[Mercedes]

Soooo.......every nation now is going to denuclearize? ... is that it? ...or just the ones that are ordered to? How does that work?

[Celeste95]

So Rodman is now a diplomat for the US? Perhaps he can go to Europe and begin to repair relations with our alienated allies.

[Spellbound]

The way these 2 play games?? Red herring at best.

Dave - Toronto

[Nasu]

I just feel for the poor comics and comedians.

You couldn't make this stuff up, it's a mouthful; The Donald, leader of America and the so called free world meets Big Kim formally and is welcomed onto the world stage in a meeting / coming out party in Singapore, world peace, de-nuclearization and incredibly the common denominator in all this spectacle is Dennis Rodman who in turn is being sponsored by a new cryptocurrency based on marijuana called potcoin, all in the same sentence. Whew.

Poor comedians...x.. N

[Daozen]

This is theater, ignore it.

Neither of those guys have the power to start a nuclear war. Nukes are just used to keep the populace in fear.

If you want to fear something, fear debt, disease and natural disasters. Or fear a wasted life.

This news is nothing, nothing, nothing.

[DNA]

The way these 2 play games?? Red herring at best.

Dave - Toronto


This is theater, ignore it.

Neither of those guys have the power to start a nuclear war. Nukes are just used to keep the populace in fear.

If you want to fear something, fear debt, disease and natural disasters. Or fear a wasted life.

This news is nothing, nothing, nothing.


The deep state of the US has been in control of N. Korea for decades, using this "threat" to coerce what accounts to hundreds of billions of dollars in military spending over the last fifty years. The US base in S. Korea is one of the most expensive military bases in the world. This truce came about because the "elite" were about to start WWIII and blame the jump start false flag on N. Korea.

This is not theatre, this is Trump trying to defuse WWIII, this is a huge event.

Those who minimize and trivialize this are either politically deaf, dumb and blind and or blinded by partisan politics.

[Eric J (Viking)]

I understand all the posts from 4 onwards. I get it, I know how the game works.

However if we never THINK peace it will never never happen.

Best to think what can be and not what won't be.

One day that 100th monkey will pop along and push the end dominoe.

DNA...yes spot on.

Viking

[Kryztian]

I remember Nixon going to China in the 70s and Reagan meeting with Gorbachev in the 80s. These were truly great moments. The media was there to give us hope that we would have a more peaceful world. Even though we had Republican leadership, Democrats rejoiced and were hopeful and looked up to the people who negotiated a more peaceful world.

The cold war between the US and North Korea has lasted even longer - over 60 years. And yet our corporate controlled media mocks this event in Singapore. There are no serious eloquent speeches praising a more peaceful planet except one delivered by a media-selected clown Dennis Rodman, so that the idea of peace will be mocked at and scorned. American liberals would rather have a nuclear bomb world than one where they might have to give any form of credit to a President whom they love to deride and laugh at at cocktail parties.

Glad to finally see people on Avalon rejoicing here about peace. Peace Good. Nuclear Weapons Bad. It used to be that simple. Peace was a liberal value. Peace was a conservative value. But the media has so mind controlled Americans into thinking otherwise and manipulating these ideologies to serve the war god that make so much money for banks and corporations every time NATO countries bomb and invade (aka "make free for Democracy") another small nation.

So, we know there is a deep state, and there is always more going on behind the scenes than we are told about on CNN between the USA and North Korea. And we also know that after leaders convene and talk about lofty values in the sunlight, they go back to there dark corners and return to contemplating how to hold on to and augment their power and wealth. But can we drop our cynicism and arrogance and acknowledge something truly momentous is happening here? The leader of the world's most isolated totalitarian nation and the leader of the world's largest military power just met and had pleasant conversation for the first time in 60 years! No amount of Bilderberg mind control should keep us from seeing that this is truly a momentous occasion and an important step in a different direction. What ever you think of Donald Trump overall, and no matter what you think of Kim Jong Un, they both deserve great credit for what has happened here.

[Phenix]

Another viewpoint: "Hours Before Singapore Summit, Kim Jong Un Called to CANCEL; Trump, already enroute, "made him an offer he couldn't refuse . . ." Here's a picture:

RL="http://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/news/world-news"]http://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/news/world-news[/URL]

[A Voice from the Mountains]

The details of this summit were vague and no official agreements were made. Furthermore, NK has a history of breaking promises.

Is it a step in the right direction? Absolutely.

The MSM is driving the focus upon the exact language of the agreement, which is very sparse, but a lot more information can be gathered from the surrounding context.

The biggest indicator for me is the messaging that North Korea is sending its own people through its state-run media. The regime is telling its own citizens that Kim has managed to convince Trump to reduce sanctions, etc. (their way of spinning it, that's fine), and that a new era is beginning for the country.

When they are telling their own people that a "new era" is beginning, that's unprecedented messaging coming from the regime. They generally keep their people very much in the dark about world events in general and only told them about the summit within a day or so of it happening. So they seem serious about this.

Also, many North Koreans are going to be shocked when they see how developed South Korea is. The defectors, ie the ones who are smart enough to know that better things are out there, even express their disbelief. Some of them may have severe mental problems, no joke, if they really believed the communist propaganda.



So Rodman is now a diplomat for the US? Perhaps he can go to Europe and begin to repair relations with our alienated allies.

If they're sore about it maybe they should reconsider why they feel it necessary to impose such high tariffs on American products, when we aren't doing that to theirs.

[Daozen]

The way these 2 play games?? Red herring at best.

Dave - Toronto


This is theater, ignore it.

Neither of those guys have the power to start a nuclear war. Nukes are just used to keep the populace in fear.

If you want to fear something, fear debt, disease and natural disasters. Or fear a wasted life.

This news is nothing, nothing, nothing.


The deep state of the US has been in control of N. Korea for decades, using this "threat" to coerce what accounts to hundreds of billions of dollars in military spending over the last fifty years. The US base in S. Korea is one of the most expensive military bases in the world. This truce came about because the "elite" were about to start WWIII and blame the jump start false flag on N. Korea.

This is not theatre, this is Trump trying to defuse WWIII, this is a huge event.

Those who minimize and trivialize this are either politically deaf, dumb and blind and or blinded by partisan politics.

You quoted my post, so here:

The infatuation you are feeling for the man you know as Donald J Trump is most likely the product of imbalanced hormones. Calling someone "Deaf, dumb and blind" is just callow, schoolyard name-calling. It does not help your case any. If you want to sell Trump to us, focus on his positive qualities. Why are you always in the Trump threads, always walking round the outer perimeter fence with an electrified cattle prod, irritably trying to get everyone back on script? You spend hours every week dong this. Why? Its not like you're being rewarded for this, right?

Avalon is a leafy glad of healers, please do not strut off the tour bus waving your Mickey Mouse money and ordering the locals about in a loud voice. Threatening World War III if people don't follow the Trump line, is, in my view, nothing but bullying, I know you are pretending to be scared yourself, but I just don't buy your story. Understand this is not an attack, there are just plenty of things about your actions here that don't add up. I have every right to question you, just as others have questioned me.

I'm aware that your answer to this post will be well crafted, plausible sounding, and very cleverly worded. But I won't believe it. Maybe others will.

[Bubu]

The way these 2 play games?? Red herring at best.

Dave - Toronto


This is theater, ignore it.

Neither of those guys have the power to start a nuclear war. Nukes are just used to keep the populace in fear.

If you want to fear something, fear debt, disease and natural disasters. Or fear a wasted life.

This news is nothing, nothing, nothing.


The deep state of the US has been in control of N. Korea for decades, using this "threat" to coerce what accounts to hundreds of billions of dollars in military spending over the last fifty years. The US base in S. Korea is one of the most expensive military bases in the world. This truce came about because the "elite" were about to start WWIII and blame the jump start false flag on N. Korea.

.

Trump diffusing war??? perhaps just go back to earlier threads and see how trump acted towards kim.
What I see is that the elite,with US gov as front failed to drag allies to WWIII therefore they have to try other strategies. Sorry but US gov reputation is completely destroyed and only the very small number of die hard world leaders remains on their side note enough to win a world war. Please read my many post on this subject and see if what I predicted way back happened.

[Chris]

This shows that you have to reach out to even your worse enemy, no matter how bad the situation might seem. If you can get them in a room talking, you're already making progress. This is how peace was brought to Ireland after decades (or more like centuries) of bloody conflict. The Israelis and the Palestinians, or at least their politicians must be fidgeting nervously in their board rooms / underground bunkers as they're the next ones in line to start talking and make peace with each other. This gives me hope that we will see armed conflict and wars become a distant memory in my lifetime.

As an aside, I used to live in Singapore and I really admire how they managed to bring together this historic peace conference. Their impartiality and cool, rational approach really helped here. They are a bit like the Vulcans of international diplomacy, unlike the hot-headed and unpredictable Trump-Kim duo. That was a major coup for Singapore and it really raised their international profile. It is difficult for someone who hasn't been there to visualise how small Singapore really is. It is about the same size as the Isle of Wight in the UK. Yep, the entire country. You could easily walk across it in a day. So I'm really proud of what they achieved here.

BTW, if you haven't seen the gardens on the bay park, it is really out of this world, literally. It looks like something from another planet. If you haven't seen it yet, at least check out the photos (https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/supertree-grove-gardens-bay-singapore-26194569.jpg). I was there in person last year and It really felt like I was in a sci-fi movie.

[Bubu]

"Glad to finally see people on Avalon rejoicing here about peace."

as if people here on avalon use to hate peace. where were you in the last six years?

"And we also know that after leaders convene and talk about lofty values in the sunlight, they go back to there dark corners and return to contemplating how to hold on to and augment their power and wealth. But can we drop our cynicism and arrogance and acknowledge something truly momentous is happening here?"

"What ever you think of Donald Trump overall, and no matter what you think of Kim Jong Un, they both deserve great credit for what has happened here."

Am I seeing cognitive dissonance or double talk?

I will commend Kim, Trump is most likely to go back to the dark corner with his masters

And why should we drop down our cynicism over this issue? when the record as you pointed out always points the the dark men going to the dark side

[Bubu]

The way these 2 play games?? Red herring at best.

Dave - Toronto


This is theater, ignore it.

Neither of those guys have the power to start a nuclear war. Nukes are just used to keep the populace in fear.

If you want to fear something, fear debt, disease and natural disasters. Or fear a wasted life.

This news is nothing, nothing, nothing.


The deep state of the US has been in control of N. Korea for decades, using this "threat" to coerce what accounts to hundreds of billions of dollars in military spending over the last fifty years. The US base in S. Korea is one of the most expensive military bases in the world. This truce came about because the "elite" were about to start WWIII and blame the jump start false flag on N. Korea.

This is not theatre, this is Trump trying to defuse WWIII, this is a huge event.

Those who minimize and trivialize this are either politically deaf, dumb and blind and or blinded by partisan politics.

You quoted my post, so here:

The infatuation you are feeling for the man you know as Donald J Trump is most likely the product of imbalanced hormones. Calling someone "Deaf, dumb and blind" is just callow, schoolyard name-calling. It does not help your case any. If you want to sell Trump to us, focus on his positive qualities. Why are you always in the Trump threads, always walking round the outer perimeter fence with an electrified cattle prod, irritably trying to get everyone back on script? You spend hours every week dong this. Why? Its not like you're being rewarded for this, right?

Avalon is a leafy glad of healers, please do not strut off the tour bus waving your Mickey Mouse money and ordering the locals about in a loud voice. Threatening World War III if people don't follow the Trump line, is, in my view, nothing but bullying, I know you are pretending to be scared yourself, but I just don't buy your story. Understand this is not an attack, there are just plenty of things about your actions here that don't add up. I have every right to question you, just as others have questioned me.

I'm aware that your answer to this post will be well crafted, plausible sounding, and very cleverly worded. But I won't believe it. Maybe others will.

Hey Daozen, This post of yours is most likely to meet indifference on avalon. you know we are not allowed to call a spade a spade. You will be accused of attacking someone even though we know that trolls are plentiful on avalon. Well the trolls of course will gang up on anyone who attempts to expose them. You saw that happened to me and others dont you?

Hey avalonians let us be polite to trolls even though they lie in our face. But at least remember that wolfs likes to wear sheep clothing.

[onawah]

Speaking of getting ganged up on, I will hazard that possibility and mention Simon Parkes, who had some ([plausible, I think) things to say about Trump, China and N. Korea starting at about 4 minutes in to about 9 minutes in here:
PfOKOQCQ_Pg

[DNA]

Hey Daozen, This post of yours is most likely to meet indifference on avalon. you know we are not allowed to call a spade a spade. You will be accused of attacking someone even though we know that trolls are plentiful on avalon. Well the trolls of course will gang up on anyone who attempts to expose them. You saw that happened to me and others dont you?

Hey avalonians let us be polite to trolls even though they lie in our face. But at least remember that wolfs likes to wear sheep clothing.
I'm in awe of how much folks like to indulge in the role of the victim.
So much so as to ignore all data that should point you in the direction of understanding what is going on.
All of Hollywood, the media and the owners of social media agree with your opinion on the present political situation.
Yet you play the victim because there are a very few small and sparsely populated areas where your opinion is not the gold standard.
I apologize if my opinion used language that was less than tactful, but in truth I see this as a life or death situation.
You may think I am wrong and this seems to be obviously so but I believe people such as your self and your politics are willfully driving this country and the world into certain oblivion. I'm not exaggerating when I say this.
I apologize if my language comes off abrupt and course at times due to my strong feelings here but I am at a loss as to how folks on Avalon with the knowledge available here as a resource can still be so willfully ignorant.

[DNA]

Speaking of getting ganged up on, I will hazard that possibility and mention Simon Parkes, who had some ([plausible, I think) things to say about Trump, China and N. Korea starting at about 4 minutes in to about 9 minutes in here:

Simon Parks is a self proclaimed therapist who has used his position to garner the trust of people confessing spiritual and emotional problems.
Part of the therapy he would prescribe was anal sex as initiated by himself. Simon Parks is as far as I can tell a sex addict and one could argue an opportunistic rapist.
As a result I personally find Simon Parks to be among the lowest of the low in terms of respecting his opinion.

[Foxie Loxie]

Thank you, DNA......my take on things as well! :highfive: I do recall that Bill, at one point, mentioned something about that.

[onawah]

Well that was certainly predictable.

[ThePythonicCow]

... what a case study in how wars are started and people are divided ...

We the people are divided into us versus them; they are associated (sometimes accurately, sometimes not, truth hardly matters here) with whatever is (or can be presented as) most abhorent.

[Bubu]

Hey Daozen, This post of yours is most likely to meet indifference on avalon. you know we are not allowed to call a spade a spade. You will be accused of attacking someone even though we know that trolls are plentiful on avalon. Well the trolls of course will gang up on anyone who attempts to expose them. You saw that happened to me and others dont you?

Hey avalonians let us be polite to trolls even though they lie in our face. But at least remember that wolfs likes to wear sheep clothing.
I'm in awe of how much folks like to indulge in the role of the victim.
So much so as to ignore all data that should point you in the direction of understanding what is going on.
All of Hollywood, the media and the owners of social media agree with your opinion on the present political situation.
Yet you play the victim because there are a very few small and sparsely populated areas where your opinion is not the gold standard.
I apologize if my opinion used language that was less than tactful, but in truth I see this as a life or death situation.
You may think I am wrong and this seems to be obviously so but I believe people such as your self and your politics are willfully driving this country and the world into certain oblivion. I'm not exaggerating when I say this.
I apologize if my language comes off abrupt and course at times due to my strong feelings here but I am at a loss as to how folks on Avalon with the knowledge available here as a resource can still be so willfully ignorant.

I presented a very logical argument and you said "... your opinion is not the gold standard..." what can I say? if you can not do it by the head at least try the heart. More drama please.

[DNA]

I presented a very logical argument and you said "... your opinion is not the gold standard..." what can I say? if you can not do it by the head at least try the heart. More drama please.


I would love to have a conversation where we heard one another and exchanged personal truths. I could give you a bullet pointed explanation of how I completely detached from being a liberal and completely dropped partisan politics, and why because of that I'm now more enamored with Trump than I have been with any politician in my lifetime. I would love to do that. But it would go no where. I've done this so many times and watched my words fall on deaf ears.

Best of luck on your journey and your travels.