US Gov finally admits that HHS agency has been storing children in empty Wal-Marts [Archive]

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A Voice from the Mountains

16th June 2018, 23:11

Back in the summer of 2015 there were a bunch of vague rumors going around surrounding the Jade Helm military exercises taking place in the US. Several news outlets were running creepy stories implying that martial law might be declared in Texas and that the US military was about to take over.

So at that time, I noticed that the "Jade Helm" exercise was taking place largely in parts of the US that have been Bush family territory, namely around Florida and Texas, among other places in the Deep South and Southwest. I assumed at the time that we were seeing glimmers through the media of some struggle between different factions of the US military industrial complex, which has happened from time to time in our history.

Other elements of rumors going around at the time made references to empty or closed-down Wal-Marts, and increased military activity around these closed Wal-Marts, which led some people to believe they were going to be used as make-shift prisons in the case of a martial law event, since the media kept implying for some bizarre reason, as if out of nowhere, that suddenly the US military was about to declare martial law in Texas, of all places.

So now, three years later, and about a year and a half into the Trump presidency, there's this:

Inside America’s Largest Child Migrant Detention Center: An Old Texas Walmart

The US government released some memorable images on Thursday, revealing the inside of a mysterious new U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) immigration detention center for children who crossed illegally into the United States.

Called “Casa Padre,” the former 250,000-square-foot Walmart in Brownsville, Texas, houses nearly 1,469 boys between the ages of 10 and 17.

This is the first glimpse inside one of these detention centers that are spring up across the U.S. since the Trump administration enacted a “zero tolerance” immigration policy in April, the result, well, thousands of children have been separated from their parents who illegally crossed the border with them.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-15/inside-americas-largest-child-migrant-detention-center-old-texas-walmart

When I saw this article, I had to do a double-take, and a question immediately popped into my mind: Is the government finally revealing the scope of its involvement in human trafficking?

The article says, "This is the first glimpse inside one of these detention centers that are spring up across the U.S. since the Trump administration enacted a “zero tolerance” immigration policy in April." Ignoring the bad grammar which makes the sentence even more garbled, this article is implying that these detention centers are a recent phenomenon of the Trump administration, but that's not the case.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/assets/uploads/2018/05/29/GettyImages-450883188-1200x800.jpg

https://www.theepochtimes.com/assets/uploads/2018/05/29/GettyImages-450882770-1200x758.jpg

https://www.theepochtimes.com/liberals-rage-at-trump-over-photo-of-caged-children-but-theres-a-problem_2542328.html

These were taken at a separate facility run by border patrol. They were taken in 2014, during the Obama administration, when Obama's "catch and release" policy was sorting through tens of thousands of illegals with a minimum of accountability.

What better place to get your $65,000 worth of "hot dogs" except funneled out of operations like this, where people who are already breaking the law by entering the country are then victimized by the very people claiming to want to help them, and the entire operation openly taking place outside of the laws established by Congress?

Here's a picture of the former Wal-Mart showcased by HHS (Health and Human Services):

https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/styles/inline_image_desktop/public/inline-images/2018-06-15_11-15-45.png

And here's a Business Insider article from April of 2015 talking about the Jade Helm "conspiracy theories":

Wal-Mart mysteriously closed 5 stores, and some people have a wacky conspiracy theory about why

Thousands of Wal-Mart employees are fighting to get their jobs back after Wal-Mart suddenly closed five stores last week without warning.

The retailer said it closed the stores in California, Texas, Oklahoma, and Florida because of persistent plumbing issues that could take as long as six months to fix.

More than 2,200 workers were laid off as a result and given two months of severance pay.

But some critics are skeptical that Wal-Mart closed the stores because of plumbing issues.

Officials in the five cities in which Wal-Mart closed stores say the company hasn't sought permits for plumbing work, according to ABC News. Additionally, a Wal-Mart plumbing technician who worked at the now shuttered store in Brandon, Florida, told WFLA that even if the store is replacing its entire sewage line, the work shouldn't take as long as six months.

The UFCW — a labor group representing Wal-Mart's laid-off workers — contends that the company closed the stores in retaliation against workers organizing for better pay, which is something Wal-Mart has been found guilty of doing in Canada.

The group has filed a claim with the National Labor Relations Board demanding that the company rehire the employees.

The UFCW isn't alone in its skepticism.

The closures have also fueled a bizarre conspiracy theory that the US military is planning to enact martial law this summer under the guise of a Special Operations exercise called Jade Helm 15.

According to the theory— which has no apparent basis in reality — the military will use the shuttered Wal-Mart stores as "processing" facilities for Americans once martial law is hatched.

http://www.businessinsider.com/wal-mart-and-jade-helm-conspiracy-theory-2015-4

In retrospect I would say this was not too far from the truth, and so far I would amend it as follows:

The Wal-Marts were suddenly closed to facilitate an industrial-sized human trafficking operation involving illegal immigrants coming in through California, Texas, Florida, etc. -- all the states that see the biggest numbers of illegals immigrants crossing their borders -- and the internationalist owners of Wal-Mart were working with the Obama administration to do so.

dynamo

17th June 2018, 01:42

Yes, we had a similar, eye-opening thread HERE (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103032-Conspiracy-Theory-Proven-Fact-as-Cops-Remove-Senator-from-Walmart-Converted-into-Detention-Center&highlight=walmart) just last week...

Hervé

17th June 2018, 02:25

onawah

17th June 2018, 02:31

Is there a link showing that the HHS actually released information about this, or do we only have media sources claiming this to be the case?
With so much fake news out there from all sides, news almost needs to come directly from the horse's mouth in order to be widely accepted as truth.

The US government released some memorable images on Thursday, revealing the inside of a mysterious new U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) immigration detention center for children who crossed illegally into the United States.

This appears to be the article where the photo of the holding cell was first published: https://www.azcentral.com/picture-gallery/news/politics/immigration/2014/06/18/first-glimpse-of-immigrant-children-at-holding-facility/10808687/

Cardillac

17th June 2018, 21:45

I think this is just the tip of the iceberg-

according to a Ted Gunderson (former FBI head) intereview in 2005 (sorry, don't have link in my head anymore) 80 children go missing every hr. in the US; that is staggering!; and that doesn't include runaways who are never seen or heard from again (according to Gunderson runaways never seen or heard from again aren't a criminal statastic)-

so where do these kids end up?

I dread to think-

Larry

A Voice from the Mountains

17th June 2018, 22:27

...
... and a post here: Re: Jade Helm / Entire Federal Martial Law Plan Exposed / Martial Law Drills Ft. Lauderdale (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?81220-Jade-Helm-Entire-Federal-Martial-Law-Plan-Exposed-Martial-Law-Drills-Ft.-Lauderdale&p=1228352&viewfull=1#post1228352)

Yes, I heard about the senator going into one of these places, but I think the Jade Helm angle on it like you posted deserves its own thread.

Summer of 2015 is also when Trump officially announced his presidency, and basically when all hell first broke loose in US politics. Not a coincidence, I think.

barneythez

19th June 2018, 02:31

Hello Avalon,

It's true, there are children as prisoners housed inside of Walmart Superstores.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1452&v=W0NQkLeM0r8

Kryztian

19th June 2018, 03:52

While we Avalonians fin

Earth Angel

19th June 2018, 13:50

Flash

19th June 2018, 15:42

I personnally think that Trump is trying to dry the children slavery trade revenues of his opponents by applying the law to the letter.

And some children are paying for this.

The speaker representative said it clearly, many are getting in through smuglers , and the purpose of getting them in can only be nefarious. She was just short of giving smugglers names.

This is for his own interests (Trump’s) which are not into children trade that Trump is doing this, make no mistake. He is just destroying his Enemies’ trade.

And of course, children trade being one of the main component of the left politicians sources of revenues, they are using Trump’s mistakes (separating some children from their real parents) to smear him and protect their trade.

And the public does not see through

Hervé

19th June 2018, 16:16

From Jim Stone (http://82.221.129.208/.yq7.html):

Where are the babies and girls? (http://82.221.129.208/.yq7.html)
(No longer rumor, this is confirmed) (https://twitter.com/politico/status/1008825738194243587)
June 19 2018

Remember a few days ago when I posted the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQB39S6l2u4)of Democrat senator Jeff Merkley who was not allowed into a FEMA wal mart (associated with Jade Helm) where immigrant children are now held, to see what was going on?

After a long pause, the cretins that run these places finally let people in, and they had it impossibly primped and primed with perfect beds and cute little spaces for all the BOYS.

PROBLEM: ALL BOYS.

They could make a space look good for the cameras (obviously fake, due to the time delay), but there were no girls and babies to put in any of them, and lots of girls and babies were taken from parents.

Here is the rumor, and this story is taking off: Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen was just asked where are all the girls who have been separated from their parents, after a flood of images and videos of young boys have been posted.

"Why is the government only releasing images of the boys being held?"
In addition to this, there are no young children or babies at all in any of the images. If the girls and babies went into the system and the DHS can't find them, something is seriously amiss.

It all started with senator Merkeley's video, where he busted them cold. They even called the cops on him to get rid of him. And now, tweets like this are showing up:

http://www.jimstone.is/pages/pizzatime.png
My suspicion: Trump was duped into agreeing to continue separating parents from children at the border (Obama started this) so a child trafficking system could be fed. I knew right away when Senator Merkely was not allowed in that it HAD TO be this, and that the kids were in deplorable care.

FORGET THE WHITE WASH. Here is a real picture of the inside of one of these wal-marts:

http://www.jimstone.is/pages/immigrantdet.jpg
Yes, a $1 mylar blanket is the standard. Well below a homeless shelter. And none of the images I found had any girls in them. Something is definitely screwy here.

FACT: The border should not be a place where little girls are sent to "Podesta's Pizza." I don't care what people think of the immigration problem, THAT IS NOT THE WAY TO HANDLE IT. AND THESE ****TY WAL MARTS ARE INEXCUSABLE.

At least give them a **!!@@^%$ REAL BLANKET!

AND HERE IS THE DEAL WITH ALL OF THIS: I have worried about this a lot, so remember, this ALL STARTED WITH OBAMA, HERE IT IS:

This is a great way to impeach and charge Trump. They are building up a case similar to pizza gate and will nail him when all the pieces are in place. Once they have them all, they will accuse and frame Trump for trafficking kids

That's where they will take this, BET ON IT and all the while, all Trump did was listen to advisors who set it all up in the background to screw him.

http://www.jimstone.is/pages/obamaimmigrants.jpg

The bust has already happened. If they come up with pictures of girls in the near future, with 250 kids detained per day it will take them a whopping 3 days to get enough girls and toddlers to make a convincing photo. They already lost this, WHERE THE HELL ARE THE TODDLERS AND GIRLS?

TQB39S6l2u4

On that same subject: Conspiracy Theory Proven Fact as Cops Remove Senator from Walmart Converted into Detention Center (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103032-Conspiracy-Theory-Proven-Fact-as-Cops-Remove-Senator-from-Walmart-Converted-into-Detention-Center)

Virma De Ris

19th June 2018, 16:26

What's happening is evil, no matter how people want to spin it. The Trump administration might have the best intentions but their greatest sin is not admitting that they committed a mistake (the extreme measures of separating children from their parents). There's no reason to separate children from their parents. :facepalm:

waves

19th June 2018, 17:26

I have been wondering about this story line, is it true? I dont watch the news, never have.....but I see enough through my laptop to get an idea of what is being fed to us......I know when I see a school shooting or the Boston marathon that this is a false flag.....is this story also a false flag?

This obvious MSM agenda to be trumpeting so loudly and repeatedly how bad Trump is for pulling the poor children from their parents is a SURE SIGN that the real story is completely different.

It accomplishes two things - more juicy anti-Trump fodder and distraction from what I suspect is the trafficking that's really underlying.

Cipher

19th June 2018, 19:12

The immigration and in some cases asylum seekers is a contentious issue. Everyone thinks their opinion is valid even after confronted with facts. Unfortunately facts now are also being attacked. It's gotten to a point where bias, slant and spin is everywhere and it's being used to support whatever agenda helps people reinforce their world view. And there is nothing more threatening then having your world view questioned.

The political system in America today is in CHAOS. That's not my interpretation but one made by the one in charged. Although chaos might be a good strategy in business, it isn't proving to be a very effective tool for governing. The thing is I get it, I really do, I know what Trump represents to the people that support him. It must be empowering to have someone in a position of power that you feel speaks your truth. For me he represents something completely foreign to my sensibilities. My opinion is based on his actions and on what comes out of his mouth (across medium).

I don't claim to be an expert on the subject. I know nothing about the previous administration those claiming links to human trafficking or kids being used as sex slaves. What is happening now with the human beings attempting to cross the American border isn't new, what IS new however, is separating kids from their families. It is a tactic being used to instill fear and discourage and its working.

I'm an immigrant and a minority. Unlike many people with strong opinions about the subject, my immigrant status isn't generations old, so old that I can't remember the fear, anxiety, uncertainty, experiencing racism for the first time and most importantly not having a parental figure to comfort you.

Virma De Ris

19th June 2018, 19:33

Valerie Villars

19th June 2018, 19:36

I posted this same article on a different thread and then saw this one.

This couple was arrested in Louisiana, transporting 25 undocumented aliens for purposes of forced debt bondage, including two juveniles.

Just what is really going on here?

http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/crime_police/article_823f2cc2-7199-11e8-9d3c-af12d017feef.html

ThePythonicCow

19th June 2018, 23:27

what IS new however, is separating kids from their families. It is a tactic being used to instill fear and discourage and its working
Families entering lawfully are not separated.

The law requires incarcerated criminal parents to be separated from their children, whether those criminals are 10th generation American citizens, or those who illegally crossed the border a few minutes ago.

If hundreds, thousands, of banks were being robbed of their cash every day in the US, because the law prevented posting armed guards at banks, and because any bank robbers caught were quickly released, then would it be a moral outrage for the government to start catching and detaining, rather than releasing, the robbers, on account of this meaning that the robbers would be separated from their claimed (often not actual) children?

Of course not.

If, more over, only bank robbers who claimed to be parents of some child in their custody were released, whereas robbers who claimed to be without child were detained, that would increase the problem of children being kidnapped by would be robbers, so that the robbers would be assured of a quick release.

This way lies insanity.

Rather, start guarding the banks and stop rewarding the bank robbers. Then banks won't be robbed nearly as often, and these deliberately divisive and heart wrenching consequences will happen far less often.

The fix starts with the law makers, who must change the laws that have, rather deliberately, set up this chaotic and inhumane situation. A healthy, sensible, immigration policy must be restored, to avoid destroying not only families and children, but also this nation.

Foxie Loxie

20th June 2018, 12:46

AMEN! Bruddah!! :highfive:

Midnight

20th June 2018, 14:32

Noelle

20th June 2018, 15:01

I posted this Dept. of Homeland Security release in the QAnon thread a couple of days ago. It fits here too.

Myth vs. Fact: DHS Zero-Tolerance Policy (https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/06/18/myth-vs-fact-dhs-zero-tolerance-policy)

My initial reaction to the seemingly coordinated effort by MSM, politicians and celebs was it's a distraction. They are trying to take the focus of the masses away from the IG report and this week's hearing. But now I'm wondering if Trump is turning the effort of the distractors into a plus -- to actually change the system/policies implemented by previous administrations that separated families.

In my opinion, some of these children may need to be separated from those adults falsely claiming those children as their own. These are the human traffickers and other criminals who may be using children to enter the country. DNA tests, as Sessions is considering, may be a good solution for that.

Jeff Sessions considers forcing asylum-seekers with sons and daughters in tow to take DNA TESTS to prove children are theirs (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5865369/Sessions-considers-forcing-asylum-seekers-kids-DNA-tests-prove-children-theirs.html)

Valerie Villars

20th June 2018, 15:13

In recent months, DHS has seen a staggering increase in the number of illegal aliens using children to pose as family units to gain entry into the United States. From October 2017 to February 2018, there was a 315 percent increase in the number of cases of adults with minors fraudulently posing as “family units” to gain entry.

From the article you posted Noelle, which is an excellent article from the Department of Homeland Security. Sanity in the midst of hysteria.

Flash

20th June 2018, 15:46

I can't believe what SOME of you are saying in this thread. The fact that some of you are all right with this supremely evil separation of very young children from their parents is truly disappointing. I get that many of you are Trump supporters but politics shouldn't prevent us from seeing evil when it arises. And evil is the right word in this specific policy by Trump's government.

You seem not to understand what we are saying.

Nobody agrees with any separation of children with their rightful parents, this is truly terrible.

We certainly agree still less on the separation of children from their parents by cruel smuglers who will end up using them in sex trade and slavery bondage.

The question for border guards is how do you distinguish between true parents and smugglers? Would you personnalky be able to distinguish both from each other?

Children trade has to be stopped. Hopefully it will be done fast to avoid damaging children separated from their rightful parents. For the often stolen children separated from smugglers passing as parents, this is a temporary relief.

I woul also want to know where are the girls???!!!

Oh.. and I am not a Trump supporter, never have been, nor a Hilary one. I am a children supporter.

The human slave trade mainly imposed on children and women has to stop. Little girls attached to bed 24/7 in sex slavery dying within 4 years of it has to stop. Children organs removal for organ trade has to stop. Woman slavery has to stop. All over the world. Anyone taking the lead in stopping it is welcome.

william r sanford72

20th June 2018, 17:38

From where I'm looking this will do nothing to curtail any human slave trade/bondage..30 miles from my house the meat packing plant is still rolling strong and 90 percent of em don't have a green card..the fruit will still get picked..lawns mowed and houses and motels cleaned and....they will still cross the borders..and this doesn't happen without help.

The people who need to bee arrested will never see a courtroom..They are to powerfull and the justice system and laws do not apply to these Scum.

William.

ThePythonicCow

20th June 2018, 21:49

I can't believe what SOME of you are saying in this thread. The fact that some of you are all right with this supremely evil separation of very young children from their parents is truly disappointing. I get that many of you are Trump supporters but politics shouldn't prevent us from seeing evil when it arises. And evil is the right word in this specific policy by Trump's government.
So ... if I am arrested for shooting and killing a bank teller during a robbery I'm attempting, and shooting and killing a cop while trying to make my escape, with a kidnapped child in my custody, then I should be either (1) set free on bail, or (2) allowed to keep that child, who is not my child, with me in jail ?

... and ... no ... this is not a Trump policy.

... and ... no ... your "moral outrage" is based on a pack of lies and evil policies, going back years, in various forms in both Europe and the US.

US immigration policy has been put in place in the US by laws passed during Obama's and earlier administrations, that the Democrats are now refusing to change, so that they can "keep the focus on Trump" (in the parphrased words of Senate Democrat Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, as reported by The Hill (http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/393069-schumer-rejects-gop-proposal-to-address-border-crisis) and others.

Some Senate Democrats must go along with any changes in our immigration law, because the US Senate is split 51 Republicans to 47 Democrats (and 2 "Independents"), and Senate rules require 60 votes to break a filibuster.

Party discipline is strong in the US Senate, and so if Democrat party leadership does not want to pass a certain immigration bill, that bill will not pass.

===

This immigration problem is a long standing (decades) and wide spread (many nations) problem that is being whipped into a frenzy now in order to create the chaos and crises out of which "change" can be birthed.

Unfortunately, given the dastardly nature of the ones apparently creating this chaos and crises, it's unlikely that these "changes" will be for the better of humanity, ...

... unless quite a few of us wake the f-up.

Yoda

20th June 2018, 22:18

......unless quite a few of us wake the f-up.
Paul, you are so subtle.
Pierre

ThePythonicCow

21st June 2018, 00:08

ThePythonicCow

21st June 2018, 01:08

Given some of the details that the PrayingMedic presents in his latest commentary on Q posts (see here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90590-Transition-into-Trump&p=1230843&viewfull=1#post1230843)), I am suspecting that this latest round of attacks on Trump, blaming him for a "this supremely evil separation of very young children from their parents" is another example of Screaming Louder and Sooner that the other party is guilty, of what they will end up, more truthfully, accusing you of.

I have long suspected that Mueller's Russian Collusion investigation is a similar cover, for deep connections, such as selling US uranium to Russia, between the Clinton crime syndicate and Russia.

I now suspect that this latest outrage over committing evil against children is similarly energized, by the Clinton crime syndicate and cronies, to attack Trump for what he may, with more evidence, soon accuse them of.

In basketball, we call it "flopping". If you start a fight with another player, then about the time that you figure the referee is starting to notice, fall to the ground like you just got hit hard. Never mind that you were the one who started the fight. Never mind whether or not the other guy ever hit back at all.

The 'Rats (Democrats in the US) are skilled at this tactic. Since the main stream news media has their back, it's an often effective tactic. The main stream news media is usually more interested in maintaining the narrative than in investigating and reporting the truth. That narrative is a pack of lies.

===

P.S. -- At 43:22 (https://youtu.be/L0mWkVLSd7o?t=43m22s) into the above linked Q video, the Praying Medic touches on this same topic, calling it an example of Psychological Projection.

Foxie Loxie

21st June 2018, 14:05

LOVE your down-to-earth logic, Paul!! :highfive:

william r sanford72

21st June 2018, 15:51

I don't look at these people as Criminal.Atleast not in the true since of the word..touched on this in a old post I went looking for and couldn't find.. about what it took to cross the border..the chain of people from mexico to the waiting van in the usa with about 20 illegals/people packing in and getting dropped off all over the us and this happens everyday folks.

My friends border crossing took around 5 thousand dollars..thats if they use coyote/guide and have a ride waiting.Not all of em have that kinda money and it took my friend 2 years to save and that's with his wife sending money from the usa as she could..i stood up for em at there wedding....took care of there daughter..my kids have shared birthdays and life with them.

Only wanted to mention this because people should see both sides of this very long and ongoing human story..

William.

DNA

21st June 2018, 16:35

The Wal-Marts were suddenly closed to facilitate an industrial-sized human trafficking operation involving illegal immigrants coming in through California, Texas, Florida, etc. -- all the states that see the biggest numbers of illegals immigrants crossing their borders -- and the internationalist owners of Wal-Mart were working with the Obama administration to do so.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to connect these dots and I've been of the same opinion since the first pictures of kids in these walmart detention centers. If this is the case, then we can presume that walmart itself is involved in this operation and we can assume walmart is now involved in human trafficking.

Not a small reason to stop buying products from walmart.
It makes sense why the deep state and media would go on the offensive and try to falsely connect Trump to all of this being as they are the one's guilty of doing this.

If the deep state will make preparations to harvest the children from war zones before the US initiates regime change as has been proven, then why wouldn't they try to take advantage of children in other scenarios such as border crossings.

This is a horror beyond the scope for most to imagine, which the deep state and elite take full advantage of.

They know the average American will recoil from this type of information and refuse to believe it, as such they continue with little fear of being investigated and or discovered.

Foxie Loxie

21st June 2018, 16:45

Totally understand what you're talking about, my friend, william! Thank you for putting it in writing.

Here in my rural area there is a farm that employs ?????. Each Aug. the churches of the area give them a picnic & at Christmas get up gift boxes for them.

I remember being in the P.O. one day when the postmaster handed back a money order to a customer who had deposited it & said, "You have to put this in an envelope! Once they "get across" good hearted people are not going to ask, "Are you here illegally?"

I do hope that after the sieve op that has been in place for so many administrations, our borders can be strengthened. Isn't that the point of all the mass migrations happening.....to disrupt the stability of the nations they are entering? :o

Noelle

21st June 2018, 16:58

Today, the First Lady makes an "unannounced" visit to a Texas immigration facility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SttPSDfmEd8

A Voice from the Mountains

25th June 2018, 17:37

The Trump administration might have the best intentions but their greatest sin is not admitting that they committed a mistake (the extreme measures of separating children from their parents). There's no reason to separate children from their parents. :facepalm:

American parents are separated from their children every day for minor crimes, to be sent to prison, or to have their children taken away due to civil cases.

In these cases, separating children from bad parents has been going on for decades and it isn't an item on the leftist agenda.

But when it's not American parents, but foreigners invading our borders, then it suddenly becomes an "extreme measure" and a "mistake"?

No, it's not a mistake. They are bad parents and they are breaking the law and endangering the lives of their children. As far as I'm concerned they don't deserve them and they'd be better off getting adopted by someone else. You'd have to be insane to try to smuggle a small child over the US/Mexico border.

I personnally think that Trump is trying to dry the children slavery trade revenues of his opponents by applying the law to the letter.

And some children are paying for this.

Really? Trump is trying to ruin the business of child slave traffickers, and some of the children will suffer from this?

This is for his own interests (Trump’s) which are not into children trade that Trump is doing this, make no mistake. He is just destroying his Enemies’ trade.

From the focus of your entire post I can clearly see that you prioritize hating Trump over actually shutting down child trafficking. It's not surprising to me but I think it's perfectly illustrative of what we call "virtue signaling," when "progressives" pretend to care about a spectrum of degenerate social issues but have just been following the herd the whole time and never actually cared about any of it on a human level. That's why they never volunteer to take the poor, innocent migrants into their own homes too.

I don't look at these people as Criminal.

There are many DAs in leftist urban centers who think like you do, and they let these illegals roam freely back and forth across the border, smuggling children and weapons and everything else worth any money.

Where is Blackjack Pershing when you need him?

I can't believe what SOME of you are saying in this thread. The fact that some of you are all right with this supremely evil separation of very young children from their parents is truly disappointing.

If you really believe it's so evil then why haven't you been complaining about children being separated from parents who are sent to prison? It's been happening since forever. If you REALLY think it's so evil then surely you've been very vocal about it before, right?

Foxie Loxie

25th June 2018, 19:02

I do believe we need to focus on the point that this sort of thing has been going on for the past recent administrations & no one said a thing back then. :confused:

It seems NORMALIZING OUTRAGEOUS BEHAVIOR has become the new "norm" in our country; very sad!

Being simply polite to others seems a thing of the past.

At least here on Avalon we can be polite to each other....a welcome island in the storm around us; here we feel no need to be in competition with each other & can discuss things in a rational manner! :flower:

Virma De Ris

25th June 2018, 21:55

Oh dear, someone's fit to be tied. What a healthy way to engage your fellow Avalonians in friendly discussion.

Now...

:focus:

The Trump administration might have the best intentions but their greatest sin is not admitting that they committed a mistake (the extreme measures of separating children from their parents). There's no reason to separate children from their parents. :facepalm:

American parents are separated from their children every day for minor crimes, to be sent to prison, or to have their children taken away due to civil cases.

In these cases, separating children from bad parents has been going on for decades and it isn't an item on the leftist agenda.

But when it's not American parents, but foreigners invading our borders, then it suddenly becomes an "extreme measure" and a "mistake"?

No, it's not a mistake. They are bad parents and they are breaking the law and endangering the lives of their children. As far as I'm concerned they don't deserve them and they'd be better off getting adopted by someone else. You'd have to be insane to try to smuggle a small child over the US/Mexico border.

I personnally think that Trump is trying to dry the children slavery trade revenues of his opponents by applying the law to the letter.

And some children are paying for this.

Really? Trump is trying to ruin the business of child slave traffickers, and some of the children will suffer from this?

This is for his own interests (Trump’s) which are not into children trade that Trump is doing this, make no mistake. He is just destroying his Enemies’ trade.

From the focus of your entire post I can clearly see that you prioritize hating Trump over actually shutting down child trafficking. It's not surprising to me but I think it's perfectly illustrative of what we call "virtue signaling," when "progressives" pretend to care about a spectrum of degenerate social issues but have just been following the herd the whole time and never actually cared about any of it on a human level. That's why they never volunteer to take the poor, innocent migrants into their own homes too.

I don't look at these people as Criminal.

There are many DAs in leftist urban centers who think like you do, and they let these illegals roam freely back and forth across the border, smuggling children and weapons and everything else worth any money.

Where is Blackjack Pershing when you need him?

I can't believe what SOME of you are saying in this thread. The fact that some of you are all right with this supremely evil separation of very young children from their parents is truly disappointing.

If you really believe it's so evil then why haven't you been complaining about children being separated from parents who are sent to prison? It's been happening since forever. If you REALLY think it's so evil then surely you've been very vocal about it before, right?

A Voice from the Mountains

25th June 2018, 23:30

I do believe we need to focus on the point that this sort of thing has been going on for the past recent administrations & no one said a thing back then.

At least some people noticed it, even the Washington Post in 2016:

Obama administration placed children with human traffickers, report says

By Abbie VanSickle January 28, 2016

The Obama administration failed to protect thousands of Central American children who have flooded across the U.S. border since 2011, leaving them vulnerable to traffickers and to abuses at the hands of government-approved caretakers, a Senate investigation has found.

The Office of Refugee Resettlement, an agency of the Department of Health and Human Services, failed to do proper background checks of adults who claimed the children, allowed sponsors to take custody of multiple unrelated children, and regularly placed children in homes without visiting the locations, according to a 56-page investigative report released Thursday.

And once the children left federally funded shelters, the report said, the agency permitted their adult sponsors to prevent caseworkers from providing them post-release services.

Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) initiated the six-month investigation after several Guatemalan teens were found in a dilapidated trailer park near Marion, Ohio, where they were being held captive by traffickers and forced to work at a local egg farm. The boys were among more than 125,000 unaccompanied minors who have surged into the United States since 2011, fleeing violence and unrest in Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador.

“It is intolerable that human trafficking — modern-day slavery — could occur in our own backyard,” Portman said in a written statement. “What makes the Marion cases even more alarming is that a U.S. government agency was responsible for delivering some of the victims into the hands of their abusers.”

The report concluded that administration “policies and procedures were inadequate to protect the children in the agency’s care.”

HHS spokesman Mark Weber said in a statement that the agency would “review the committee’s findings carefully and continue to work to ensure the best care for the children we serve.”

The report was released ahead of a hearing Thursday before the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, which Portman co-chairs with Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.). It detailed nearly 30 cases where unaccompanied children had been trafficked after federal officials released them to sponsors or where there were “serious trafficking indicators.”

“HHS places children with individuals about whom it knows relatively little and without verifying the limited information provided by sponsors about their alleged relationship with the child,” the report said.

For example, one Guatemalan boy planned to live with his uncle in Virginia. But when the uncle refused to take the boy, he ended up with another sponsor, who forced him to work nearly 12 hours a day to repay a $6,500 smuggling debt, which the sponsor later increased to $10,900, the report said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/obama-administration-placed-children-with-human-traffickers-report-says/2016/01/28/39465050-c542-11e5-9693-933a4d31bcc8_story.html

What do you know, indentured servitude too.

The corporate media establishment has also had no problem admitting before that the US/Mexico border is one of the most dangerous places in the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp48Ie1HA3Y

Mexico has been in an ongoing series of internal civil wars between the government and various drug cartels for years. I don't know how many people have died in it but it's been at least in the 10's of thousands. All of this doesn't just take place in some deep dark part of Mexico. It happens where the money is, and most of the money is coming from the US. So a lot of the violence is going to be occurring around the US border.

And this is where these parents are paying human traffickers to take them. Or venturing out on their own, into the desert. The rates of people being robbed and raped on the way are enormous. And in the mean time, there is a president on the other side of the border who says he's just going to send you back home. What kind of parent is going to put their child into this situation willingly?

william r sanford72

26th June 2018, 00:05

I'm still waiting on that meat processing plant to close from an ice raid.....1 of hundreds.Wonder how they get paid??..where all the social security numbers/cards come from??The fake ones by the hundreds..so everthing looks Kosher for the Legit well established American owner company..Bet he wouldn't want all of em deported..man that would hit the bottom line hard and the questions.Hard questions...

This isnt the first time and wont bee the last time some president gets tough on this issue..meanwhile they will still cross because there are Jobs waiting.

I don't like nor dislike trump..im not left nor lean right..and the middle is gone.
if trump can stop children from being abused then I'm all for it otherwise I'm not seeing anything different than before from all the other Potus...that's just my OP.

William.

A Voice from the Mountains

26th June 2018, 00:21

This isnt the first time and wont bee the last time some president gets tough on this issue..meanwhile they will still cross because there are Jobs waiting.

You're right, there will always be jobs to pull a segment of the Mexican population across the border to work. Trump already made exceptions to make it easier for some companies, like farms in the southwest, to hire temporary migrant workers. They've been doing that done there for many decades, but at least they can do it through a legal process.

Carmody

1st July 2018, 13:19

Well, it looks like Trump can play this "public appearances" game too.

As reported on CNBC (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/20/trump-says-hes-going-to-sign-a-preemptive-measure-to-keep-migrant-families-together.html) and other major sites, Trump has just signed an Executive Order to "will keep migrant families together".

Here's what the executive order would do, according to text circulated by the White House: It orders Nielsen "to the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropriations" to keep families together during criminal proceedings.
The measure says the administration does not have to keep families together "when there is a concern" that detaining a child with a parent "would pose a risk to the child's welfare."
It directs Attorney General Jeff Sessions to file a request with a federal district court in California to change a legal settlement that curbs the government's ability to keep children in detention.
It orders Sessions to prioritize criminal proceedings for cases involving families.
By my reading, this executive order doesn't change either the law or the funding. It just puts a better spin on what was already legally required, to the extent funded.

But since this immigration fiasco (decades in the building) is already a Public Relations (P.R.) battle royale, a counter-strike by Trump to regain the upper hand on the P.R. front is an entirely sensible action in my estimation.

Not until the Democrats in the US Senate allow the passing of better immigration laws will the fundamentally inhumane and insane laws currently enforce in the US be improved.

Families should be given a choice, if they wish to be housed or held together: Separation or DNA test.

With secondary independent verification of the DNA test, via blind ...from a rotating list of DNA verification firms.

This costs mere hundreds of $ these days, as long as the people meting out the funds aren't allowed to add only friends to the list of jobbers and not allowed to pad the bills.

Problem being, the publicity and policy change, manipulation of the political situation, and the money ....is more valuable than being humane or logical.

The logical conclusion is that all of it is infused with manipulative psychopaths, from top to bottom. Specifically that of the controlling elements and structures. There can be no other interpretation that fits the evidence.

The parasitical elements of a psychopathic nature ....goes to where the food/meal is. Infestation.

It's the very reason that we need to go to the root cause as a parallel effort (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66489-Brainscans-and-prisoners-Outing-the-sociopaths-and-the-domino-effect)...besides this dealing with symptoms which the 'regular world' is in effect --always doing.

Otherwise the cycle is endless, as it has been for all of human history and knowing...a conveyor belt of never ending manipulation.

Correcting the world, up-righting the world... is literally within your grasp.

See it before the window goes away, or is manipulated into meaninglessness.

ThePythonicCow

1st July 2018, 14:24

Families should be given a choice, if they wish to be housed or held together: Separation or DNA test.
In the case of actual families, and in the case that some in the family are not being imprisoned for committing some crime, yes.

However, I am unaware of any means by which ordinary, basically honest, people who are not present at the time and place such a decision is made, can know if the decision was made honestly, with the well being of other ordinary humans in mind.

Indeed, more cynical, conspiracy theory minded sorts such as myself will conclude that the chances that this will continue to be so asymptotically approach zero, as the essential isolation of any of the critical components of the decision mechanisms approaches infinity.

Any "large scale" mechanism, such as brain scans to identify psychopaths, suffers from the same problem as other such mechanisms have long suffered. I have in mind other such mechanisms as voting booths and news media, all of which seem to be at risk of increasingly pervasive corruption.

That long standing problem is that large scale mechanisms are corruptible. Their essential mechanisms can be isolated from the oversight of honest people. As the Wizard of Oz said, of himself, over his own loud speaker, "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

Thus we see the importance of separation and dispersal of powers, to increase the chance that oversight by an honest person will be close enough to the actual events to shed some disinfecting sunlight on them.

Carmody

11th July 2018, 15:36

Wow, did that ever go ugly, fast.

I said what I said, not because it is the best way to go but possibly the middle path in this. Possibly. DNA testing to prove the children are really theirs. It was going to to happen anyway, regardless. And they appear to be doing it. But.

Government Told Immigrant Parents to Pay for DNA Tests to Get Kids Back, Advocate Says
Authorities separated families and took their documents, leaving genetic tests as the only way to verify who they are. And a secret contractor is doing the work. (https://www.thedailybeast.com/government-told-immigrant-parents-to-pay-for-dna-tests-to-be-reunited-with-kids-advocate?ref=scroll)

But this proposal is just crazy-nasty. However, I have yet to read the article. Perhaps it is not as bad as the title is making it out to be. Perhaps it is worse.

Just as crazy as Director Terry Gilliam made it out to be in the Film 'Brazil', where Tuttle or Buttle's husband is killed on order, by accident even (the Tuttle or Buttle part), and they initiate the situation..by conducting a violent raid on the family home, partially destroying it in the process... and serve his wife with a bill for the act and the disposal.

That insane fantasy/nightmare has become reality, in the 33 years since the film's release.

nWbIxFKtTmE