UK Legalisation Of Medicinal Cannabis

[what is a name?]

Those in the UK will have seen recently the attention in the media on the continual struggle for patients who use medicinal cannabis and the attempts to have it legalised.

My wife, a cancer survivor who used cannabis oil and was given the 'all clear' before the finish of her chemotherapy sessions a few months ago, will be accompanied by John of Medicinal Marajuana UK who developed the strain of cannabis plants the oils were extracted from, and Tony from The Tottenham Compassionate Club, a group dedicated to supply patients with life changing medication whilst avoiding prosecution, will tomorrow be meeting with MPs in the UK parliament to advise and discuss further the 'legalisation'.

'What you think is what you get' - therefore what i'm asking is that those on PA who resonate to this to simply think "medicinal cannabis IS legal in the UK"!!!

And I thank all in advance who partake in this little 'experiment' :heart::heart::heart:

Their may be media reports of a screaming banshee being removed from the Houses of Parliament and follow up threats of finishing what Guy Fawkes started but this will be TOTALLY unrelated :blushing:

[spade]

Gotta get the right strain though... that's what I've learnt

[what is a name?]

Gotta get the right strain though... that's what I've learnt

Yes the strain is very important. a one to one ratio of CBD/THC, CBD being the cannabinoid and THC the psychoactive compound.

This is why legalisation is so important, rather than people resorting to buying weed from an unknown source that is grown with chemical fertlizers (Miracle-Gro etc) with the only concern being profit.

[Did You See Them]

Gotta get the right strain though... that's what I've learnt

Yes the strain is very important. a one to one ratio of CBD/THC, CBD being the cannabinoid and THC the psychoactive compound.

This is why legalisation is so important, rather than people resorting to buying weed from an unknown source that is grown with chemical fertlizers (Miracle-Gro etc) with the only concern being profit.

Exactly.
Land race strains - and knowledge of them.

[Dennis Leahy]

...

Yes the strain is very important. a one to one ratio of CBD/THC, CBD being the cannabinoid and THC the psychoactive compound.
...

Minor correction: CBD and THC are both cannabinoids. THC is the cancer killer (causes apoptosis in cancer cells, causes anti-angiogenesis of blood vessels to the tumor, ...) CBD is not a cancer killer, though it can be very effective helper when used in combination with THC - for example, causing between 50% and 160% more THC to go to the brain. The amount of CBD added to a patient's anti-cancer protocol can vary between none and 50% (the 1:1 ratio you expressed), but the amount of THC must be high to beat cancer.

[what is a name?]

...

Yes the strain is very important. a one to one ratio of CBD/THC, CBD being the cannabinoid and THC the psychoactive compound.
...

Minor correction: CBD and THC are both cannabinoids. THC is the cancer killer (causes apoptosis in cancer cells, causes anti-angiogenesis of blood vessels to the tumor, ...) CBD is not a cancer killer, though it can be very effective helper when used in combination with THC - for example, causing between 50% and 160% more THC to go to the brain. The amount of CBD added to a patient's anti-cancer protocol can vary between none and 50% (the 1:1 ratio you expressed), but the amount of THC must be high to beat cancer.

Thank you Dennis! Guys like you who have the info are a boon to the ignorant!

[Mari]

...

Yes the strain is very important. a one to one ratio of CBD/THC, CBD being the cannabinoid and THC the psychoactive compound.
...

Minor correction: CBD and THC are both cannabinoids. THC is the cancer killer (causes apoptosis in cancer cells, causes anti-angiogenesis of blood vessels to the tumor, ...) CBD is not a cancer killer, though it can be very effective helper when used in combination with THC - for example, causing between 50% and 160% more THC to go to the brain. The amount of CBD added to a patient's anti-cancer protocol can vary between none and 50% (the 1:1 ratio you expressed), but the amount of THC must be high to beat cancer.

Thank you Dennis! Guys like you who have the info are a boon to the ignorant!

I would think that that was one of the reasons why the PTB don't want the populace to know that there IS an alternative treatment to the usual 'cut, slash. burn' that is offered cancer patients. Big Pharma rakes in a lot of profit from 'sickness' - the last thing they want is a healthy population!

[Wansen]

Deleted Post.

[Tomkoyote]

I mentioned a year ago or so (can't remember the site) that the pharmaceuticals have been working on a synthetic version of cannabis that will of course (like all pharma drugs) cure nothing and with as a bonus a few side effects, and will come a day when cannabis growers will no longer be allowed to grow the natural plant and users will need a prescription to buy the fake stuff at a pharmacy.
Yes, they will legalize it... like any prescription drug.

[Justplain]

...

Yes the strain is very important. a one to one ratio of CBD/THC, CBD being the cannabinoid and THC the psychoactive compound.
...

Minor correction: CBD and THC are both cannabinoids. THC is the cancer killer (causes apoptosis in cancer cells, causes anti-angiogenesis of blood vessels to the tumor, ...) CBD is not a cancer killer, though it can be very effective helper when used in combination with THC - for example, causing between 50% and 160% more THC to go to the brain. The amount of CBD added to a patient's anti-cancer protocol can vary between none and 50% (the 1:1 ratio you expressed), but the amount of THC must be high to beat cancer.


Hi Dennis, CBD DOES kill cancer (see below research). Thc and CBD help kill different parts of the cancer cell. A cannibis strain of high doses of cbd has been developed (20 to 1 cbd to thc) for those who want to avoid the thc mental affects. My mother-in-law has been using cbd oil for a year after suffering heart attacks and being simultaneously diagnosed with breast cancer. The cbd oil has helped keep her alive.

Research:

There are two structures in most cells that sustains life; one is the mitochondria, and the other is the endoplasmic reticulum. The mitochondria primarily produces adenosine triphosphate (ATP) that provides the necessary energy. The endoplasmic reticulum (ER) is a loosely bound envelope around the cell nucleus that synthesizes metabolites and proteins directed by the nuclear DNA that nourish and sustain the cell.

Let us look first at tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and observe that THC is a natural fit for the CB1 cannabinoid receptor on the cancer cell surface. When THC hits the receptor, the cell generates ceramide that disrupts the mitochondria, closing off energy for the cell.

Disruption of the mitochondria releases cytochrome c and reactive oxygen species into the cytosol, hastening cell death. It is notable that this process is specific to cancer cells. Healthy cells have no reaction to THC at the CB1 receptor. The increase in ceramide also disrupts calcium metabolism in the mitochondria, completing the demise to cell death.

The other cannabinoid we know is effective in killing cancer cells is cannabidiol (CBD). The primary job of CBD in the cancer cell is to disrupt the endoplasmic reticulum through wrecking of the calcium metabolism, pushing calcium into the cytosol. This always results in cell death. Another pathway for CBD to effect cancer cell death is the Caspase Cascade, which breaks down proteins and peptides in the cell. When this happens the cell cannot survive. Again, these processes are specific to cancer cells, no normal cells are affected.

https://patients4medicalmarijuana.wordpress.com/how-cannabinoids-kill-cancer-dennis-hill/

[Dennis Leahy]

...

Yes the strain is very important. a one to one ratio of CBD/THC, CBD being the cannabinoid and THC the psychoactive compound.
...

Minor correction: CBD and THC are both cannabinoids. THC is the cancer killer (causes apoptosis in cancer cells, causes anti-angiogenesis of blood vessels to the tumor, ...) CBD is not a cancer killer, though it can be very effective helper when used in combination with THC - for example, causing between 50% and 160% more THC to go to the brain. The amount of CBD added to a patient's anti-cancer protocol can vary between none and 50% (the 1:1 ratio you expressed), but the amount of THC must be high to beat cancer.


Hi Dennis, CBD DOES kill cancer (see below research). Thc and CBD help kill different parts of the cancer cell. ...
Justplain, thank you for that link! And from Dennis Hill too! (Not just a cancer survivor due to cannabis oil, but also a biochemist and cancer researcher.)

(After a phone call with a friend, telling me his sister has GBM4), over the past few months, I have probably doubled my knowledge on cannabis, cannabinoids, the endocannabinoid system. Now, I probably know 0.001% of what has been published in scientific literature (there are many thousands of cannabinoid articles and scientific whitepapers on PubMed alone.) So, I welcome this article.

One thing I have not come across is the scientific assertion that CBD alone can effectively battle cancer. I trust Dennis Hill's info is correct, but wonder about the power and scope of CBD in killing cancer, in comparison to the actions of THC on cancer. Isolated cannabinoids never measure-up qualitatively to mixed cannabinoids in their effects.

Looks like Dennis Hill also has taken the time to follow-up on comments and questions, so I may contact him and ask my question regarding comparative cancer killing scope/power of those cannabinoids. The cannabis oil caregivers that I have been in contact with (echoing the anecdotal testimonials) all have used high THC cannabis oil to cure cancers - some mention adding CBD to the protocol, some don't, but none are just using CBD against cancer.

Again, thanks!

[what is a name?]

...

Yes the strain is very important. a one to one ratio of CBD/THC, CBD being the cannabinoid and THC the psychoactive compound.
...

Minor correction: CBD and THC are both cannabinoids. THC is the cancer killer (causes apoptosis in cancer cells, causes anti-angiogenesis of blood vessels to the tumor, ...) CBD is not a cancer killer, though it can be very effective helper when used in combination with THC - for example, causing between 50% and 160% more THC to go to the brain. The amount of CBD added to a patient's anti-cancer protocol can vary between none and 50% (the 1:1 ratio you expressed), but the amount of THC must be high to beat cancer.


Hi Dennis, CBD DOES kill cancer (see below research). Thc and CBD help kill different parts of the cancer cell. ...
Justplain, thank you for that link! And from Dennis Hill too! (Not just a cancer survivor due to cannabis oil, but also a biochemist and cancer researcher.)

(After a phone call with a friend, telling me his sister has GBM4), over the past few months, I have probably doubled my knowledge on cannabis, cannabinoids, the endocannabinoid system. Now, I probably know 0.001% of what has been published in scientific literature (there are many thousands of cannabinoid articles and scientific whitepapers on PubMed alone.) So, I welcome this article.

One thing I have not come across is the scientific assertion that CBD alone can effectively battle cancer. I trust Dennis Hill's info is correct, but wonder about the power and scope of CBD in killing cancer, in comparison to the actions of THC on cancer. Isolated cannabinoids never measure-up qualitatively to mixed cannabinoids in their effects.

Looks like Dennis Hill also has taken the time to follow-up on comments and questions, so I may contact him and ask my question regarding comparative cancer killing scope/power of those cannabinoids. The cannabis oil caregivers that I have been in contact with (echoing the anecdotal testimonials) all have used high THC cannabis oil to cure cancers - some mention adding CBD to the protocol, some don't, but none are just using CBD against cancer.

Again, thanks!

Hi Dennis, from what I understand the most effective is as you say, a combination of both CBD and THC although patients who take just CBD are showing positive results too - from what i've heard.

The meeting yesterday in the UK Parliament between ministers, MPs, chief constables and the pro-medicinal cannabis community went very well with more 'break throughs' expected in the next couple of weeks.

Now did I ever mention the metaphysical properties of cannabis? Guess that will need to wait till more 'substantiated evidence' can be provided!

[Shadowself]

Thank you for this thread of information...

As a cancer patient myself I have a question. How does one get the THC oil or tincture in the United States? Is it legal to obtain? Am I going to get busted ordering it? I currently live in North Carolina...Valid questions here and in need of some advise if this is available to me on an immediate basis.

I currently have some CBD oil that was sent to me and it is 300MG....is that enough? I just saw on a site some that was 1000MG....and this is a bit confusing as to dosing for me which is again an immediate situation.

Any help you can provide as to my questions are greatly appreciated.

[what is a name?]

Thank you for this thread of information...

As a cancer patient myself I have a question. How does one get the THC oil or tincture in the United States? Is it legal to obtain? Am I going to get busted ordering it? I currently live in North Carolina...Valid questions here and in need of some advise if this is available to me on an immediate basis.

I currently have some CBD oil that was sent to me and it is 300MG....is that enough? I just saw on a site some that was 1000MG....and this is a bit confusing as to dosing for me which is again an immediate situation.

Any help you can provide as to my questions are greatly appreciated.

Hi Shadowself, a quick look on the web brings up:

"In North Carolina, both medical and recreational cannabis are illegal. However, marijuana has been decriminalized, so first time offenders will not be jailed for possession of small amounts of marijuana. Possession of up to 0.5 ounces is considered a misdemeanor punishable by a maximum fine of $200."


What you are looking for is as mentioned in above posts, a CBD/THC tincture at a 1:1 ratio, with THC being illegal in your state as it is in the UK.

There will be many suppliers in other states willing to ship to you and they should be very helpful if you have any questions - search under medical marajuana. It usually comes in small glass bottles with a 'dropper' for dispensing into the mouth under the tongue, as this is the quickest way to absorb into the body. Start with a few drops 3 times a day and build up to a level you are comfortable with, as you will notice the the THC effect as the dose increases.

From what i've learnt from both the guys 'in the know' who produce it and from patients, GUZZLE DOWN AS MUCH AS YOU CAN.

My wife is paying £25 ($33) per bottle here so don't go paying $100 a bottle - too many people are jumping on the 'herbal bandwagon' to make a buck with their morals locked away in their bank account.

If you have any more questions please feel free to ask or PM me. My wife is networking across the UK with cancer patients and I could get her to message you.

As my wife says, you have absolutely no idea what the whole cancer scenario brings unless you go through it yourself.

[what is a name?]

Thank you for this thread of information...

As a cancer patient myself I have a question. How does one get the THC oil or tincture in the United States? Is it legal to obtain? Am I going to get busted ordering it? I currently live in North Carolina...Valid questions here and in need of some advise if this is available to me on an immediate basis.

I currently have some CBD oil that was sent to me and it is 300MG....is that enough? I just saw on a site some that was 1000MG....and this is a bit confusing as to dosing for me which is again an immediate situation.

Any help you can provide as to my questions are greatly appreciated.


Hi Shadowself, i'm asking if the producers of the tinctures at this end will ship to the States - then you can compare costs.

[what is a name?]

Hi Shadowself, yes they will ship to the States. I've asked for shipping cost based on 4 bottles.

Each bottle contains 138mg of full cannbinoid (CBD) and 134mg of THC

If you chose to get from them then the 'donation' would have to be in UK pounds for the product and the shipping.

As for getting 'busted', that is a factor you will have to take into consideration. Do you take an illegal substance that 'may' change the quality of your life in a most positive way?

If you DO go ahead and in the most unlikely scenario you do get busted, you give us an e-mail address of the law dept. that is handling it and I will make sure that all the Medical Cannabis groups we are affiliated with around the world, amounting to a LOT of people, will mail that department on how DISGUSTED we are at the treatment of YOU.

[what is a name?]

I am in the process of posting below on various medicinal cannabis sites in the UK.


Originally posted on TTCC

OK here is something that has come up for the community that certainly deserves attention. I have been chatting with a woman in the States who has stage 4 lung cancer and in her State legalisation has not occurred and she is worried about getting busted if she uses cannabis oils.

Is it possible to have a 'draft' e-mail on the site that members, if they choose, can send to any law department worldwide to show their support and disgust at the treatment of anyone who has been charged with the use of medicinal cannabis?

Anyone worldwide who falls into this category would just need to supply an e-mail address, which all law and court departments have, and pass it onto us, and any affiliate medicinal cannabis groups worldwide, and if all willing participants mailed that law department EVERY day then they
would be INUNDATED.

If laws are made for the benefit of the People, then the People should let them know when they are WRONG.

[Dennis Leahy]

A glass of distilled water, versus a glass of ocean water. That is how different the CBD products are that are on the market. The distilled water has only a single compound, H2O, whereas the ocean water probably contains hundreds if not thousands of compounds in addition to H2O.

Your logic tells you that you want purity, right? Well, in this case, you don't. Almost all CBD on the market is FAR too refined, far too pure for optimal medical properties. What to look for are CBD products that are:



made from a complex variety of cannabis*, high in CBD, not commercial hemp
cannabinoids are extracted using food-grade solvent (ethyl alcohol) or hot water
extracted product is a true "full extract", not the mixing of constituent compounds and calling that a full extract
extracted product is then NOT run through fractional distillation
pre and or post "winterizing" to remove plant waxes is OK
the only further 'refinement' should be mechanical filtering and decarboxylation/"activation" (a heating process)
bonus points for the plant material being organic
bonus points for the solvent being organic

There is a great story of a scientist that was given 5 million dollars to set up a lab to figure out which one component in aloe vera is the near-miraculous healing compound, so the investor could synthesize it. The final result was a financial bust - there is no single compound in aloe vera that does what the "full extract" can do. Another case of the "entourage effect" of the complex mix of compounds in the natural plant being the desired outcome.

*(Good CBD oil starts with biochemically complex cannabis plants with high amounts of cannabinoids, such as "AC/DC" or "Charlotte's Web", not commercial hemp. Then, the cannabinoids are washed off the (frozen) plant material with (freezing cold) alcohol, the alcohol is evaporated, and what remains is "Full Extract Cannabis Oil", or FECO for short. It contains all of the cannabinoids in the plant - in their acid form, and terpines, and minor amounts of some other plant compounds. The acid forms of the cannabinoids (CBDa, THCa, etc.) are then carefully heated to specific temperature for a specific time to "decarb" ("decarboxylate", which removes a "carboxyl group"/COOH from the molecules), leaving CBD, THC, etc. Now the oil is activated, and ready for ingestion.

Note the very confusing word "hemp." There is a legal definition (contains no more than 0.3% THC), plus it is used as a nickname for any cannabis plant - even Rick Simpson uses the word interchangeably with "cannabis." The CBD producers, (a wild new market) keen to assert the legality of their product in all 50 states, often use the word "hemp", and for most of them, it is true in every sense: they are using commercial hemp as the starting cannabis.

Bad CBD products as made from commercial hemp, extracted as cheaply as possible using any of a half dozen solvents, and fractionally distilled to purify. Another way is by a CO2 extraction process and then some companies attempt to blend the fractional components back into what would have been a full extract.)

[what is a name?]

Dennis thank you for yet more info on the 'pitfalls' and 'plus points' when it comes to the cannabis oil market!

All the members of the compassion club i'm in use the products due to either physical or psychological issues and as such it makes them even more passionate in getting the right product to new patients, which is a common factor in medicinal cannabis compassion clubs, with many holding fund raising events to raise 'donation' money for patients who can't afford their own.

[spade]

Just like the Gum Spirits - seems like the expensive ones sold at the art stores are from commercial tree waste, maybe extracted as cheaply as possible using any of a half dozen solvents, and fractionally distilled to purify. Is fractional distillation also known as "Rectified"? Why do they have to double or triple distill the product?

[Dennis Leahy]

Just like the Gum Spirits - seems like the expensive ones sold at the art stores are from commercial tree waste, maybe extracted as cheaply as possible using any of a half dozen solvents, and fractionally distilled to purify. Is fractional distillation also known as "Rectified"? Why do they have to double or triple distill the product?

Imagine a chemical stew. The component chemicals each have their own boiling point, but some are relatively close to one another. In fractional distillation, heat is applied to the "stew", and whatever has the lowest boiling point will vaporize first (and is collected.) The temperature is then turned up a bit, and a new beaker catches the next chemical distillate, and on and on until the desired chemicals have been obtained.

Each of the beakers now has mostly just one chemical, but with some minor amounts of other chemicals with close boiling points, or molecules of substances that have a chemical affinity for another chemical may be drawn up with the desired one, and likely some other chemical/physics processes help some molecules escape and contaminate the desired one.

So, another round of careful heating of the beaker contents and collecting the fractional distillate will yield an even more pure distillate, and so on (until it is cost prohibitive or a waste of time to distill it again.) Each time, a higher purity is obtained.

Distilling once is "distillation." Distilling over and over to increase purity is "rectifying."

[spade]

Thanks Dennis, makes a lot of sense as to why some rectified products lose their efficacy after being too pure, as our organic bodies sometimes require a combination of substances for a synergistic effect. Again we point to the big pharma industry which does precisely that, worse, combining the substances with other deadly ones for the sake of patents resulting in side effects to fatalities

[spade]

I heard that "Medicinal Cannabis" is only a smoke and mirror term. Basically the registered doctor is bounded by law to fill out an unnecessary 20 page essay/form to state reasons why he is prescribing "Medicinal" Cannabis, afterwhich if he does eventually get to page 20, and issues too much of the stuff, he loses his license (thus trapped in a cycle where he would never risk his practice by prescribing the stuff). The legalisation of "Medicinal Cannabis" is literally political theatre.

[Dennis Leahy]

Thank you for this thread of information...

As a cancer patient myself I have a question. How does one get the THC oil or tincture in the United States? Is it legal to obtain? Am I going to get busted ordering it? I currently live in North Carolina...Valid questions here and in need of some advise if this is available to me on an immediate basis.

I currently have some CBD oil that was sent to me and it is 300MG....is that enough? I just saw on a site some that was 1000MG....and this is a bit confusing as to dosing for me which is again an immediate situation.

Any help you can provide as to my questions are greatly appreciated.
Hi Brook,

It's probably good to answer your questions in a public thread, because others may have the same questions.

How does one get the THC oil or tincture in the United States? Generally speaking, FECO (fully extracted cannabis oil) is not a retail or even 'medical'/dispensary product. Cannabis oil sold at retail locations in US states that have legalized "recreational" cannabis is the product of fractional distillation, and is too pure to be truly medical. There is a lot of misinformation about just exactly what is in the oil and how it was made. Some will call their oil RSO ("Rick Simpson Oil"), even though it is not really FECO. So, since true FECO is not available, and/or the starting plant material, solvent, and process are unknown, the medical cannabis caregivers I have been in contact with all make their own oil. The real answer to your question, as of current laws, is "a friend of a friend..."

Is it legal to obtain? The quick answer is "yes", in legal US states, "no" in the rest. (I think Canada is still very restrictive on 'concentrates', like oils.) Each US state may restrict the number of grams of "legally obtained" oil that are legal to possess. I think that Colorado allows (or did allow, they have modified some of their laws) 28 grams of oil - a huge amount - which is about half of the oil needed for a "60 grams in 90 days" (Rick Simpson) cancer protocol. If a dispensary in a legal state actually does have true FECO oil for sale, it would still be cost-prohibitive to obtain enough to cure cancer - at least double the cost of buying the cannabis plant material and making your own.

Am I going to get busted ordering it? You cannot order it. No product containing more than 0.3% of THC may leave the legal US state where it was purchased, and even within the state, you cannot legally mail cannabis products with THC. (Cannabis is legal to mail, within Canada, via Canada Post.)

(With apologies to what is a name? for being off-topic in a UK-based thread, back to the topic of UK legalization.)

My on-topic comment is that what you really want in the UK is full legalization, not just medical use legalization. You don't want some group of bureaucrats to determine for you whether your particular condition fits in their view as "medicinal." When THC hits the human endocannabinoid system (ECS), it is medicinal - even if the person's full intent was just to get high.

[what is a name?]

"My on-topic comment is that what you really want in the UK is full legalization, not just medical use legalization. You don't want some group of bureaucrats to determine for you whether your particular condition fits in their view as "medicinal." When THC hits the human endocannabinoid system (ECS), it is medicinal - even if the person's full intent was just to get high."

Totally agree Dennis, full legalization. Everyone realises the issues behind it not been 'legalized' go beyond the 'reefer madness' etc etc. And I would go further and say it also goes beyond the big pharma money machine, but 'pushing it forward' one step at a time is better than staying stagnant.