Did Maria Orsic really exist?

[Bill Ryan]

The thread title says it.

Did Maria Orsic really exist? It's a genuine question. I've just e-mailed Joseph Farrell to ask his view, and I'll publish his response. I'd like to ask Peter Levenda, too.

I do know there are a zillion web pages and articles about her. (And also many photos that have to be way too high quality and modern-looking to really be from the 1920s and 30s.)

Two interesting books for reference. Both are important.

The second (and more recent) was where Maria Orsic's story first was published. She was said to be the founder of the Vril Society, an acclaimed psychic who, with her colleagues, channeled high tech disc craft designs from Aldebaran, so becoming the darling of the Thule Society and the Nazi party.

But she'd never been heard of before that 1960 book. The authors have hinted heavily that some of their book was provocative fiction, but never clarified whether Orsic herself was fictional. And much of that part of their book was based on the first, which was published in 1871. (There's an excellent summary here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vril).)


Sir Edward Bulwer-Lytton - The Coming Race (1871)
http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Sir%20Edward%20Bulwer-Lytton%20-%20The%20Coming%20Race.pdf



Louis Pauwels, Jacques Bergier - The Morning of the Magicians - Secret Societies, Conspiracies, and Vanished Civilizations (1960)
http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Louis%20Pauwels%2C%20Jacques%20Bergier%20-%20The%20Morning%20of%20the%20Magicians%20-%20Secret%20Societies%2C%20Conspiracies%2C%20and%20Vanished%20Civilizations.pdf

[Bill Ryan]

I've just e-mailed Joseph Farrell to ask his view, and I'll publish his response.

Well, that was quick! Here's his reply, literally within minutes:

~~~



I've found NO evidence for it. The story is repeated in some postwar neo-nazi sources, but nothing by way of evidence. I've referred to the story (forget which book), but because of its intrinsic interest. I've not founded any hypotheses or conclusions from it.

[mojo]

Hi, this video might help some, Bill, maybe Maria was a cover name and I wonder if Joseph Farrell would agree that the society itself existed? After watching the video didnt know the Vril were into so many bizarre things. It reminded me a little of the Bohemian Grove goings on...

fJCpJ4CSyGE

[Bill Ryan]

Hi, this video might help some, Bill, maybe Maria was a cover name and I wonder if Joseph Farrell would agree that the society itself existed? After watching the video didnt know the Vril were into so many bizarre things. It reminded me a little of the Bohemian Grove goings on...

fJCpJ4CSyGE

Thanks, yes. Assuming it existed, it was really very weird indeed.

Note, though, that the narrator carefully says at the very start: (0:20) "If the bizarre legends of the Vril Society are true..."

The entire narration is carefully speculative: "is said to have", "may have", "is thought to be" ... etc. These caveats are repeated throughout the film.

Despite its caution (Maria Orsic is never mentioned by name), the documentary can't resist some drama: it suggests at the end (39:15) that the 'V' in the V-1, V-2 weapons may have stood for Vril. That's historically just not the case... 'V' stands for Vergeltungswaffe, which means 'Retribution Weapon'.

It also seems significant that only three experts are included as historical authoritaties. One wonders if that's all the producers could find... most features like this include half a dozen or more, even if only for the variety and interest.

The Thule Society, in contrast, is absolutely an agreed historical reality, the participants are known, and it's all very well documented.

The problem, of course, is that any truly secret society (and there are some!) really does leave an almost zero footprint.

[KiwiElf]

Not proof that Maria Orsic existed but perhaps one of the first videos which mentions her in the overall "bigger picture".

According to legend, this German-produced documentary was first released in 1992, then re-released in 1998 in English. (IMO, still one of the best around). Unfortunately, the quality looks like it may have been converted from video.

UFO - Secrets of the 3rd Reich

YxEtseyHlNM

Can we exclude an extraterrestrian contact at that time? One of the last large secrets of our century is the occult past of the Third Reich and its secret societies Templer, Thule, Vril and the 'Lords of the Black Sus - SS'. An integrated technology that derived from occult secret knowledge - i.e. anti-gravitation driven round planes (UFO) with the code names Vril and Haunebu (V7) - has never been made available to the public under the cover of military secrecy by the allied victorious powers. The occult secret societies of the Third Reich ranked among the best old orientalists of the world back then and knew about the existence of extraterrestrian technology that was brought down to Earth in old Sumeria by the gods who 'came down from heaven'.

UFO TV appear to have drawn on much of this material with their own updated & expanded version (again, Maria is discussed early into the video in the larger "historical" context):

UFO SECRETS OF THE THIRD REICH - THE ALDEBARAN MYSTERY HD
MtAD90C6mEM

Some of us have just been discussing alleged German UFO's, the Haunebu's in particular, over on uzn's thread here:

Build your own nazi saucer from Revell
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103163-Build-your-own-nazi-saucer-from-Revell&p=1230952#top

Certain Politically Correct "vested interests" recently succeeded in having well-known model maker, Revell, remove their kitset of a Haunebu II. (ie, it was banned due to "Public Outrage"!) :silent:

https://www.rt.com/news/430259-nazi-flying-saucer-amazon/

[Mike Gorman]

Which 'public' expressed the outrage? I see it was the child protection groups, they can be over sensitive about these matters, or indeed any reference to 'Nazi' at all!

[KiwiElf]

Which 'public' expressed the outrage? I see it was the child protection groups, they can be over sensitive about these matters, or indeed any reference to 'Nazi' at all!

LOL exactly - I count 3+ people? ;)

[Builder]

Which 'public' expressed the outrage? I see it was the child protection groups, they can be over sensitive about these matters, or indeed any reference to 'Nazi' at all!

Of course this is all BS. An advanced difficulty model kit has nothing to do with getting children to play with Nazi toys.

But Naziism is THE strongest taboo in German society for very good reasons and with it Germany has transformed from a war state to one of the most peaceful nations on earth.

Like any taboo it can thus will be be used to exert power by those who define and control the taboo. Which were of course the winning allies of the war and in extension of that today's German establishment.

Note that in Germany and Austria there is no freedom of speech regarding to this topic and it's a criminal offence to paint a Swastika on a scale model from that era (no matter if the original existed or not).

Understanding that the simple act of building and painting a model can get you into jail may also help to understand why producing such a model is a sensitive issue. But it also puts a forbidden mystical aura around the whole topic, which brings us back from model building to Maria Orsic.

When the truth is clouded by a controlled narrative, taboos and censorship, then imagination instead of historical facts may fill in the blanks.

[KiwiElf]

Back to Maria Orsic; perhaps even more mysterious, (or "convenient" as to her real existence?), as the story goes, she vanished along with other Vril members at the end of the war, never to be seen again.

Many theories associated with that, too; take your pick;
She left Germany on a:

U-Boat (100+ U-boats unaccounted for/vanished at the end of the war), OR
a Haunebu Saucer,

... bound for Sth America OR
Neuschwabenland, the "Nazi Base/Colony" in Antarctica,

... to the suggestion that she (somehow) went to Aldebaran - more commonly known as Alpha Tauri - the alleged source of her channelling). :tinfoil3:

[Zampano]

Maria Orsic was more more like a puppet.
A roll modell...so to say.
Only a suggestion-nothing more.
There should me many more.

But thats a gut feeling-that is my intuition, but not much more.

[Valerie Villars]

I read both of those books and read "The Morning of the Magicians" so much it is actually falling apart.

Did Maria really exist? Her persona could just be a representation of some real phenomena. Her photograph shows a woman so beautiful she doesn't look real. Kind of like the Nordic I had interactions with. He was so good looking, he didn't seem real.

I can attest to the phenomena of the vril being real, but the person? I don't know. There is some kind of veil over this stuff, which is inexplicable. You experience the realness of it, but there is no logical explanation.

Interesting thread.

[Spiral]

What a fascinating topic & rabbit hole...

The number of times that real occult practices feature in works of fantasy are many, and very curiously it's not unknown for works of fantasy to become taken to be true occult material, so like the speculative existence of the enigmatic & beautiful Maria Orsic it seems that there is a warping of reality & time at play, where things on the fringes of what we believe can fluctuate from being fact to fiction & back again.

Why does that happen & if MO is a work of fiction what was the purpose of adding her into the story ? To manifest vril as a reality by creating a sufficiently strong narrative that a significant number of people would believe in it, enough people that is to create a "mandela effect" & alter reality ?

[Valerie Villars]

What I still find interesting is once again, I didn't know about any of this stuff until I went through it and then started looking for books about the experience, after the fact.

Does the present bleed into the past?

Are the clues planted after the fact?

[Foxie Loxie]

Good question, Spiral! So nice to see you posting!! :highfive:

[dynamo]

...
She left Germany on a U-Boat/Haunebu, bound for Sth America OR the South Pole, to the suggestion that she (somehow) went to Aldebaran - more commonly known as Alpha Centauri - ...
just to clarify, Aldebaran and Alpha Centauri are two different things:
Aldebaran being a "star" 65 light-years from Earth
https://www.britannica.com/place/Aldebaran

and Alpha Centauri being a "star system" 4.3 light years from Earth.
https://www.livescience.com/54387-5-facts-about-alpha-centuari-starshot.html

The amateur astronomer in me made me interrupt LOL!
Ok, please carry on...

[Sunny-side-up]

Back to Maria Orsic; perhaps even more mysterious, (or "convenient" as to her real existence?), as the story goes, she mysteriously vanished at the end of the war, never to be seen again.

(Many theories associated with that, too; take your pick;
She left Germany on a U-Boat/Haunebu, bound for Sth America OR the South Pole, to the suggestion that she (somehow) went to Aldebaran - more commonly known as Alpha Centauri - the alleged source of her channelling). :tinfoil3:

OR she eloped with Shakespeare and lived happily ever after.

Just shows how something/one who is relatively recent can be such a mystery, a mystery to the level of maybe not being real?
our history is very easily influenced and or even made up.

I still think there is a real foundation to Maria Orsic and her/it's story.
I hope it's not just made up.

Aldebaran, designated Alpha Tauri, is an orange giant star located about 65 light-years from the Sun in the zodiac constellation of Taurus. Wikipedia

[turiya]

So far I see no one has posted an image of Maria Orsic... So, allow me...

http://universeinsideyou.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Maria-Orsic-UFO-Vril.jpg (http://universeinsideyou.net/vril-society/maria-orsic-ufo-vril/)

Referring to the title of this thread, Did Maria Orsic exist?
For my own curiosity, I will dowse for the answer to this question.... the following are the results of that inquiry.

Keep in mind...
Dowsing is not considered an exact science (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exact_sciences). The obtained results can be considered similar to the results obtained through the 'alternative medicine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_medicine)' practice found through what is called 'Applied Kinesiology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_kinesiology)', that which many chiropractors, and other health practitioners use. The following results satisfy my own inquiry through the method of dowsing with a pendulum. It is totally subjective. But, the method, in many instances, has served me quite well.


Question 1) Does the above image represent the image of a real human being that had previously existed? - Yes.

Question 2) Is 'Maria Orsic' the true name of the real human being that is represented in the above photo? - No.

Question 3) Did an individual by the name of Maria Orsic ever exist?- Yes.

Question 4) Did such individual have anything to do with what is known as the Vril Society? No.

Question 5) Was there at any time an individual by the name of Maria Orsic that had anything to do with the Vril Society? - No.

Question 6) The notion of there being a real individual by the name of 'Maria Orsic' associated with the 'Vril Society', can this be considered factual? - No.

Question 7) Then, it is a fiction? Yes.

That is good enough for me.
I leave the rest of you to decide for yourselves. :)

[Foxie Loxie]

Thanks, turiya! It would be interesting to see if wnlight could repeat your questions & see if he gets the same answers! :confused:

[DNA]

I would like to ask a slightly different but still related question. Were the UFO's described by Admiral Byrd in Antarctica Nazi UFO's or not?

It seems that Admiral Byrd did exist and that he did in fact go to Antarctica with a fleet of ships prepared for war after WWII.

He claimed to have been routed by a vastly superior squadron of UFO's.

Were these Nazis or someone else occupying Antarctica?

[Bill Ryan]

I would like to ask a slightly different but still related question. Were the UFO's described by Admiral Byrd in Antarctica Nazi UFO's or not?

It seems that Admiral Byrd did exist and that he did in fact go to Antarctica with a fleet of ships prepared for war after WWII.

He claimed to have been routed by a vastly superior squadron of UFO's.

That all stems from just 1 (one) Chilean newspaper report. There's no other evidence. But it's pretty odd that he returned (or retreated!) several months before he was due to.

Here's more, in fine detail:


http://tst.greyfalcon.us/ufo.htm

http://myth.greyfalcon.us/pictures7/elmercucio.jpg

(This may need its own thread...!)

:focus:

[Jayke]

There was some interesting claims made by Iranian news and a Russian documentary called "Men in Black", which Robert Sepehr documents in his video:

ssO12u2DxD4

She isn't mentioned till towards the end of the video, and it doesn't give any documented proof she existed. It does add to the mystery however, saying she left for new swabia (antarctica) at the end of the war, with other members of the Vril society.

[KiwiElf]

...
She left Germany on a U-Boat/Haunebu, bound for Sth America OR the South Pole, to the suggestion that she (somehow) went to Aldebaran - more commonly known as Alpha Centauri - ...
just to clarify, Aldebaran and Alpha Centauri are two different things:
Aldebaran being a "star" 65 light-years from Earth
https://www.britannica.com/place/Aldebaran

and Alpha Centauri being a "star system" 4.3 light years from Earth.
https://www.livescience.com/54387-5-facts-about-alpha-centuari-starshot.html

The amateur astronomer in me made me interrupt LOL!
Ok, please carry on...

WhOoops my bad :o (Thanks dynamo :thumbsup:) - I meant Alpha Tauri - my original post corrected for accuracy, (I have LOST IN SPACE on the brain after my binge watch! - the Robinsons were heading to Alpha Centauri) :))


Aldebaran, designated Alpha Tauri (α Tauri, abbreviated Alpha Tau, α Tau), is an orange giant star located about 65 light-years from the Sun in the zodiac constellation of Taurus. It is the brightest star in its constellation and usually the fourteenth-brightest star in the nighttime sky, though it varies slowly in brightness between magnitude 0.75 and 0.95. It is likely that Aldebaran hosts a planet several times the size of Jupiter.

:focus:

[KiwiElf]

I would like to ask a slightly different but still related question. Were the UFO's described by Admiral Byrd in Antarctica Nazi UFO's or not?

It seems that Admiral Byrd did exist and that he did in fact go to Antarctica with a fleet of ships prepared for war after WWII.

He claimed to have been routed by a vastly superior squadron of UFO's.

Were these Nazis or someone else occupying Antarctica?

Hi DNA,

The whole "story" is confusing & contradictory; (I suspect deliberately so with many red herrings; "they" never want us to find out! :sherlock: ;) - please refer to the two videos on the previous page, and anything else you can find on Adm. Byrd :)).

Depending upon which "version" of the story you find, Byrd left on a voyage to Antarctica (aka Operation Highjump - officially titled, The United States Navy Antarctic Developments Program) intended to last six-eight months but mysteriously returned earlier - less than eight weeks, with substantial loss of crew & equipment, aircraft & vessels. Other than Bill's earlier newspaper article post, I have not (yet) come across any verifiable information to the alleged attack of saucers on his fleet as being Nazi in origin. (But... as with Roswell, Vimanas & Vril, "etc" absence of proof is not proof of absence. Like the rest of the "story", a lot of speculation & conjecture). What was consistent, is that the saucers reportedly emerged from the sea.

Now, if we take the "story" of Byrd meeting with "Aryans" as being possibly true, and Byrd being told by the Aryan leader to deliver a message back to the US President, it does seem odd - and contradictory - that the Aryans would then attack Byrd's fleet with heavy losses! (A warning?) As the Aldebaran video mentions, Byrd was not the only Naval officer/voyage to encounter "saucers" emerging from the sea around this period and general area.

(As I'm sure you're aware, there have been numerous accounts of UFOs of all shapes & sizes emerging from the sea, lakes & rivers from all over the world).

Perhaps the bigger question is, as you have asked, if it wasn't Nazi's who attacked Byrd's fleet, (Saucers or otherwise) then who did?

If any real classified records of that particular expedition & Byrd's "mysterious encounters at the Pole" were kept and do exist (including Byrd's confiscated diary & all the Nazi advanced tech, classified or otherwise) - then prizing them out of the Pentagon's Secret basement files (or what or who ever actually has them) is like Roswell - a well kept secret with a lot of mirrors, smoke, and no proven fire (as yet!); something I'd like to see more than the JFK files. If so, I suspect verification of Maria Orsic's existence & involvement might be in "there," too (or not). ;)

Like Roswell and the "weather/Mogul balloon cover story", if Byrd's expedition to Antarctica was just an innocent trip to map & locate minerals/resources, why all the (ongoing) secrecy?

One thing is certain; there's "something" hidden in Antarctica, (maybe many "somethings"), along with all the alleged Nazi Bases/UFOs etc, which vested interests do not want the public to know about. They do seem to be connected. :idea:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's the main website referenced earlier by Bill, discussing much more of this (they are becoming few and far between!) Index is on the left side of the site.

http://south.greyfalcon.us/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jan Van Helsing's Book is a good read IMO, here: (Post #176):

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?9462-Interesting-Free-Books-in-PDF&p=645481#post645481

SECRET SOCIETIES AND THEIR POWER IN THE 20TH CENTURY (PDF)
By Jan Van Helsing (1995)

A Guide Through the Entanglements of Lodges with High Finance and Politics, Trilateral Commission, Bilderbergers, CFR, UN, German UFO technology & Antarctic Bases, Free Energy, etc. A banned book in some countries.

194 pages incl cover - 2.14 MB, PDF Download link below:

20742
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also the book, "Man Made UFOs 1944 - 1994
50 Years of Suppression,"
Renato Vesco & David Hatcher Childress, 1994
(it may be in the Avalon Library, Bill could probably answer that ;))

:focus:

[Chanie]

A lot of websites make mention that she was born on October 31, 1895 in Vienna, Austria; that her parents were Tomislav and Sabine Orsic; and that she had a daughter named Yolanda Raffa. That is very specific information.

If someone wanted to prove whether such a woman existed, they could try and track down her birth record; her parents’ marriage record and/or the birth record of her daughter—keeping in mind the fact that the name Orsic could be spelled in a variety of ways. Genealogical records are known to have these types of spelling variations.

However, even if such records exist, it wouldn’t prove that this person had a connection to the Vril Society.

[Valerie Villars]

And then, there is always the possibility that her name is an anagram of something else. Representative of something or someone real who does exist, as seems to be a continuing pattern in this dimension. Language. It means something. Something real. Maria Orsic.

[KiwiElf]

There was some interesting claims made by Iranian news and a Russian documentary called "Men in Black", which Robert Sepehr documents in his video:

She isn't mentioned till towards the end of the video, and it doesn't give any documented proof she existed. It does add to the mystery however, saying she left for new swabia (antarctica) at the end of the war, with other members of the Vril society.

Here's the full Russian-produced "Men in Black" video documentary (Russian audio with English subtitles) 44 mins. Worth watching the whole thing, IMO. The former Russian President & Russian Naval Officers seem convinced! ;)

Discussion about Maria (& other mediums, Thule etc) starts at "Part 3: Saucers," Timestamp 22:03 thereabouts, with some background leading into this (using paranormal "outsiders" ie channels/mediums) just a few minutes before.

MwUpPwyyvLw

[Joe from the Carolinas]

I would like to ask a slightly different but still related question. Were the UFO's described by Admiral Byrd in Antarctica Nazi UFO's or not?

It seems that Admiral Byrd did exist and that he did in fact go to Antarctica with a fleet of ships prepared for war after WWII.

He claimed to have been routed by a vastly superior squadron of UFO's.

Were these Nazis or someone else occupying Antarctica?

As Bill pointed out above, the only reference Admiral Byrd made regarding the claim that there was a squadron of UFOs was from the El Mercurio chilean newspaper. Many authors have unfortunately not taken the time to translate the source article, instead pulling mistranslation from mistranslation.

I did shoot a video looking into this further. To save you a few minutes, the language used in the newspaper refers to AVIONES HOSTILES (hostile aircraft)- not flying objects.

While an incorrectly translated newspaper article does not seal the door on the Admiral Byrd - UFO myth, it does require that we seek other primary source materials.

The problem is that if there are no other credible materials linking Admiral Byrd to UFOs, then logic would hold that there's no evidence that he encountered them.

Hostile aircraft could refer to flying objects, however, hostile aircraft could also refer to OTHER aircraft of whatever origins. I would also ask, how would Byrd know they were hostile??

I'm looking into Operation Highjump based on films and documents from the era, and will post results of my research once I sift through it. The entire fleet left ahead of schedule. I suspect there's a cover story at play here.

DHAgSLHy5ps

[Bill Ryan]

As Bill pointed out above, the only reference Admiral Byrd made regarding the claim that there was a squadron of UFOs was from the El Mercurio chilean newspaper. Many authors have unfortunately not taken the time to translate the source article, instead pulling mistranslation from mistranslation.

I did shoot a video looking into this further. To save you a few minutes, the language used in the newspaper refers to AVIONES HOSTILES (hostile aircraft)- not flying objects.



Yes. Copied from http://tst.greyfalcon.us/ufo.htm, here's the source text: (my red emphasis)

This is the ONLY source for all the guessing and theorizing (and fantasizing!) in the alt media about Admiral Byrd since then.

Spanish text from "El Mercurio":



El Almirante Richard E. Byrd advirtió hoy que es imperativo para los Estados Unidos de America el iniciar medidas de defensa contra la posibilidad de una invasión del país de parte de aviones hostiles provenientes de las regiones polares. El Almirante explicó que no quiere asustar a nadie, pero es una verdad amarga que, en el caso de una nueva guerra, los Estados Unidos podrían ser atacados por aviones que pueden volar sobre uno o los dos polos. Esta declaración se hizo como parte de una recapitulación de su propia experiencia polar, en una entrevista exclusiva con International News Service. Refiriéndose a la expedición de reciente finalización, Byrd dijo que el resultado más importante de sus observaciones y descubrimientos es el efecto potencial que tienen con respecto a la seguridad de los Estados Unidos. La velocidad fantástica a la que el mundo se está reduciendo – recordó el Almirante– es una de las lecciones más importantes aprendidas en su reciente exploración antártica. Debo advertir a mis compatriotas que terminó aquel tiempo en el que podíamos refugiarnos en nuestro aislamiento y confiar en la certeza de que las distancias, los océanos, y los polos eran una garantía de seguridad.
English Translation:



Admiral Richard E. Byrd warned today that the United States should adopt measures of protection against the possibility of an invasion of the country by hostile planes coming from the polar regions. The Admiral explained that he was not trying to scare anyone, but the cruel reality is that in case of a new war, the United States could be attacked by planes flying over one or both poles. This statement was made as part of a recapitulation of his own polar experience, in an exclusive interview with International News Service. Talking about the recently completed expedition, Byrd said that the most important result of his observations and discoveries is the potential effect that they have in relation to the security of the United States. The fantastic speed with which the world is shrinking – recalled the Admiral – is one of the most important lessons learned during his recent Antarctic exploration. I have to warn my compatriots that the time has ended when we were able to take refuge in our isolation and rely on the certainty that the distances, the oceans, and the poles were a guarantee of safety.

[DNA]

Thank you Kiwi and Joe, you have both given me a lot of information to go through.
I appreciate your contributions. :)
Thank you Bill for the newspaper clipping and now having had it translated.
I appreciate your always sober responses on these subjects.

[Cardillac]

fascinating thread- but has anyone yet observered the obvious?-

members of the Vril society made their hands into a V form with all fingers (including thumbs) touching together-

who is seen doing this in almost all of her public photos?

Angela Merkel

think about this-

Larry

[Bill Ryan]

members of the Vril society made their hands into a V form with all fingers (including thumbs) touching together-



Larry, bear in mind that's only in the dramatized (re-enacted) documentary on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJCpJ4CSyGE). We have no real idea what they actually did, or even who was there.

[Justplain]

This raises a good question about the nazis' involvement with extra-terrestrials, and nazi development of ufo tech. There have been credible witness testimony that the nazis were atleast interacting with the grays. Regarding ufo tech, however, a very large credibility question arises since it does not seem plausible that a military power in possession of such tech could lose to less sophisticated tech. And if it was late in developing, why wouldnt the nazis atleast have launched a strike on the usa or russia, if for nothing else than spite?

[Cardillac]

@Bill

yes, I agree with you totally, Bill, but we can't deny what we see with our own eyes; but there's more to this I think-

if my read sources are correct the Bush famiiy starting with Prescott Bush who was very pro Nazi (this is documented- you know this already- we all know it- if not one is ignorant of world history)-

if my read sources are correct (can't remember sources anymore) Angela Merkel and the Bush family have all been financially in cahoots with each for a long time-

well, look at the woman's background: came from a Marxist background and although her verbal expoundings are sugar-coated she remains a Marxist-

most cannot see through this because of her deceptive rhetoric- and she's convincing because she combines a feminine rhetoric with hard-line, evil policies;

my point is: I still think the Vril society still continues to this day as well as evil aspects of the Nazi mv't; as Peter Levenda stated: "you can't destroy an idealogy with weapons"-

but I still believe the Nazi mov't was being orchestrated on a much higher level-

Larry

[Cardillac]

addendum to my my last posting (forgot to include this)-

according to Nazi historian (interviewed by Kerry Cassidy) Harry Cooper Angela Merkel just bought property next to the Bush property in Paraguay- look at Nazi history then go figure-

Larry

[Did You See Them]

Other than the questionable Maria, how does the evidence for the "Vrill Society" stack up ?
Was it a bonafide offshoot of the Thule society ?

[Bill Ryan]

Other than the questionable Maria, how does the evidence for the "Vrill Society" stack up ?
Was it a bonafide offshoot of the Thule society ?

Well, here's something that I think may be of HIGH significance.

A few years ago, I listened to Linda Howe talking about her detailed 1998 interview with [pseudonym] kewper. (This is the same insider who was interviewed on camera by Richard Dolan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK7KlR0ABlQ) in 2013 and told him that Eisenhower had threatened to send the Army into Area 51 to find out what was going on, and who was later the subject of Ron Garner's book 'Anonymous (https://www.amazon.com/Former-Agent-comes-Shadows-Brief/dp/1936517841)'.)

In that extraordinary testimony, military insider whistleblower 'kewper' described in detail, among much else, the time when he was shown a collection of disk-shaped craft in a hangar.

One of them, kewper was told (it was pointed out to him), was a 'Vril craft from the 1920s'. (That's a quote from the interview.)

MUST LISTEN. It's just 1 minute 20 secs long. This testimony is very important.


http://projectavalon.net/Linda_Howe_and_kewper_on_Vril_craft_in_a_hangar.mp3 (650 Kb, very small)

This extract came from an audio I've labeled in my archive as "Linda Moulton Howe & The Extraterrestrial Reality" (though this might not be the original title), and it's 1:13:47 long.

The date of my archive is Jan 2015, so the original will be earlier, and not later than that. I can't yet find it on YouTube. If anyone can, do please post the original. The section with 'kewper' and the Vril craft starts about 6:30 in.

The entire thing is here, just uploaded. :thumbsup:


http://avalonlibrary.net/Linda%20Moulton%20Howe%20%26%20The%20Extraterrestrial%20Reality.mp3

[wnlight]

I dowsed some of Turin's questions and some of my own. Here are my results.

Question 1) Does the image posted by turiya represent the image of a real human being that had previously existed? - YES.
Was this image photoshopped? - NO. Is it an original image? - YES.
Was this image created before 1950? - YES. After 1945? - YES. (Was narrowed down to 1948.)
-
Question 2) Is 'Maria Orsic' the true name of the real human being that is represented in the image posted by turiya? - NO.

Question 3) Did an individual by the name of Maria Orsic ever exist?- YES.
Did the real Maria Orsic live in the same time period? - NO. (Was narrowed down to about 100 years earlier.)

Did a secret society named the Vril Society exist in the WWII era? - YES.
Did the real Maria Orsic have anything to do with what is known as the Vril Society? - NO.
Did the person imaged have anything to do with what is known as the Vril Society? - YES.

Question 5) Was there at any time an individual by the name of Maria Orsic that had anything to do with the Vril Society? - NO.

[Sunny-side-up]

This raises a good question about the nazis' involvement with extra-terrestrials, and nazi development of ufo tech. There have been credible witness testimony that the nazis were atleast interacting with the grays. Regarding ufo tech, however, a very large credibility question arises since it does not seem plausible that a military power in possession of such tech could lose to less sophisticated tech. And if it was late in developing, why wouldnt the nazis atleast have launched a strike on the usa or russia, if for nothing else than spite?

Hi Justplain.


As far as I can see.
Germany and it's meek regular citizens, citizens like us that lost the war, not the Nazis.
The war was a done deal.
Germany was a sacrificial commodity and so was all those from around the globe that where killed in the war.
The Nazis moved operations to the USA and other places to the south.
All the major sides in the war got what they wanted, well those pulling the stings that is.

[Foxie Loxie]

Exactly, Sunny-side-up....."Those pulling the strings"!!! As I like to think....we are in the middle of someone else's war & most of us have no clue as to what is REALLY going on! :idea:

[Builder]

Admiral Richard E. Byrd warned today that the United States should adopt measures of protection against the possibility of an invasion of the country by hostile planes coming from the polar regions.

Note that contrary to what is reported in so many other places he didn't say that they were attacked and he also didn't say that there were actual flying craft who can fly from pole to pole.

With the at the time rapidly increasing performance of airplanes it was foreseeable, that the polar routes would become relevant for future military operations. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_route

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/PolarRoute.png/1024px-PolarRoute.png

But talking about airplanes: 1947, only months after Operation Highjump, Kenneth Arnold described UFOs looking similar to the flying wings built by the Horten brothers for the Nazis.

http://www.luft46.com/ggart/ggho9-2.jpg

[BMJ]

addendum to my my last posting (forgot to include this)-

according to Nazi historian (interviewed by Kerry Cassidy) Harry Cooper Angela Merkel just bought property next to the Bush property in Paraguay- look at Nazi history then go figure-

Larry

To expand on that your speaking of the nazi exodus from Argentina to Paraguay after the 1955 overthrow of President Juan Perón of Argentina, and the subsequent large presence of nazi's and second / third generation germans in Paraguay to this day.

Hence the reason for Merkel and Bush buying property in Paraguay because of the nazi/german support available in Paraguay.

[Zak247]

http://www.puharich.nl/Photos/images/photo-33.jpg





https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMDI5OTdkZDUtYzlmMy00MGM3LTg5YzEtZjBlY2FkNTBkYmM3XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjI3MDczMjI@._V1_.jpg



http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/vril-girls-Heart-banner.jpg

[Valerie Villars]

Zac, I give up. Who is in the top photo?

[Bill Ryan]

Zac, I give up. Who is in the top photo?

It's Andrija Puharich, in 1977. (Nothing to do with Maria Orsic!)


http://puharich.nl/photo.html

[Zak247]

All I'll say is this
Often time’s pictures speak louder than words

Bill is right about one thing, that is Andrija Puharich's photo album, and the 33rd picture inside it...The question is who are the two woman
Maybe his girlfriend, wife, I don't know.

If Maria Orsic was anything they said she was, then she is extraordinary and had extraordinary attributes

[KiwiElf]

But talking about airplanes: 1947, only months after Operation Highjump, Kenneth Arnold described UFOs looking similar to the flying wings built by the Horten brothers for the Nazis.

http://www.luft46.com/ggart/ggho9-2.jpg

Yes; the Hortens were just airplanes - flying wings with conventional engines (piston, jet or rockets), incapable of reaching the speeds measured by Kenneth Arnold's "saucers" - 1,200 miles an hour (1,932 km/hr), even a modern B2 is not capable of these speeds, OR range to fly pole-to-pole, Europe to the US or either Pole to the US. That's just two simple facts to put Joseph Farrell's conclusions in "Roswell & the Reich" in the bin IMO. (Arnold's description of the UFO's he saw, weren't saucers - nor did they really look like the one above at all, (only to the untrained eye) :sherlock: - that's a bit like saying the British Vulcan Bomber "looks like or is similar to" the Concorde, or a Cessna 172 "looks like or is similar to" a Piper Cub! ;)

- a B2 maybe,... even that's a bit of a stretch! (Joseph Farrell take note! And before anyone says it, The Hortens look NOTHING like or similar to whatever-it-was that crashed at Roswell, either... see comparisons below ) ;)

These are the (known) Horten designs, some of which never made it off the drawing boards. It should be fairly self-evident which of these designs did look vaguely similar to those described by Arnold (and which one is pictured above):

NOTE: Lack of air intakes or exhaust outlets necessary for conventional engines on either Arnold's or Roswell UFOs

38397
The Horten Designs

38398
Horten & a B2 Bomber

38399
"UFO" described by Kenneth Arnold

38400
Roswell "UFO" - Frank Kauffman sketch

:focus:

[KiwiElf]

Admiral Richard E. Byrd warned today that the United States should adopt measures of protection against the possibility of an invasion of the country by hostile planes coming from the polar regions.

Note that contrary to what is reported in so many other places he didn't say that they were attacked and he also didn't say that there were actual flying craft who can fly from pole to pole.



Ummmm... do you have some evidence to support that, please Builder? :)

EDIT: That is, over and above Bill's post below & earlier?

[Bill Ryan]

Admiral Richard E. Byrd warned today that the United States should adopt measures of protection against the possibility of an invasion of the country by hostile planes coming from the polar regions.

Note that contrary to what is reported in so many other places he didn't say that they were attacked and he also didn't say that there were actual flying craft who can fly from pole to pole.



Ummmm... do you have some evidence to support that, please Builder? :)

Here's the exact (and only) evidence for anything at all: (copied from my earlier post #28 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103228-Did-Maria-Orsic-really-exist&p=1231507&viewfull=1#post1231507))

~~~





Copied from http://tst.greyfalcon.us/ufo.htm, here's the source text: (my red emphasis)

This is the ONLY source for all the guessing and theorizing (and fantasizing!) in the alt media about Admiral Byrd since then.

Spanish text from "El Mercurio":



El Almirante Richard E. Byrd advirtió hoy que es imperativo para los Estados Unidos de America el iniciar medidas de defensa contra la posibilidad de una invasión del país de parte de aviones hostiles provenientes de las regiones polares. El Almirante explicó que no quiere asustar a nadie, pero es una verdad amarga que, en el caso de una nueva guerra, los Estados Unidos podrían ser atacados por aviones que pueden volar sobre uno o los dos polos. Esta declaración se hizo como parte de una recapitulación de su propia experiencia polar, en una entrevista exclusiva con International News Service. Refiriéndose a la expedición de reciente finalización, Byrd dijo que el resultado más importante de sus observaciones y descubrimientos es el efecto potencial que tienen con respecto a la seguridad de los Estados Unidos. La velocidad fantástica a la que el mundo se está reduciendo – recordó el Almirante– es una de las lecciones más importantes aprendidas en su reciente exploración antártica. Debo advertir a mis compatriotas que terminó aquel tiempo en el que podíamos refugiarnos en nuestro aislamiento y confiar en la certeza de que las distancias, los océanos, y los polos eran una garantía de seguridad.
English Translation:



Admiral Richard E. Byrd warned today that the United States should adopt measures of protection against the possibility of an invasion of the country by hostile planes coming from the polar regions. The Admiral explained that he was not trying to scare anyone, but the cruel reality is that in case of a new war, the United States could be attacked by planes flying over one or both poles. This statement was made as part of a recapitulation of his own polar experience, in an exclusive interview with International News Service. Talking about the recently completed expedition, Byrd said that the most important result of his observations and discoveries is the potential effect that they have in relation to the security of the United States. The fantastic speed with which the world is shrinking – recalled the Admiral – is one of the most important lessons learned during his recent Antarctic exploration. I have to warn my compatriots that the time has ended when we were able to take refuge in our isolation and rely on the certainty that the distances, the oceans, and the poles were a guarantee of safety.

[Zak247]

Some background:

I am sure people here are aware of the history of the German mystical movement before WWII having had—through the Vril society—made contact with an advanced alien civilization from the Aldebaran planetary system. This is likely a tale filled with exaggerated mystery and legendary mythical allure like much of the reportage on the German mystical renaissance in the 20's and 30’s was... Though an interesting an entertaining spiel: A lovely nymph-like Maria Orsic and some other mystery feminine Goddess figure named Sigrun were mediums calling down energy from this star system using their long beautiful wavy hair as antennas—a dandy yarn for a Dan Brown novel if I ever heard one.

These two are supposed to have had been the source of the German WWII mastery in spaceship building generated by this mediumistic knowledge.


The medium Maria Orsic was the leader of the ‘Vrilerinnen’, the beautiful young ladies of the Vril Gesellschaft.

Characteristically they all wore their hair in long horse-tails, contrary to the popular short bobbed fashion of their day, claiming their long hair acted as cosmic antennas that helped facilitate their contact with extraterrestrials beings from beyond.

According to the legend of the German Vril society, a fateful meeting was held in 1919 at an old hunting lodge near Berchtesgaden, where Maria Orsic presented to a small group assembled from the Thule, Vril and Black Sun Societies, telepathic messages she claimed to have received from an extraterrestrial civilization existing in the distant Aldebaran solar system, sixty-eight light years away, in the Constellation of Taurus.

One set of Maria’s channeled transmissions was found to be in a secret German Templar script unknown to her. A second series of transmissions appeared to be written in an ancient eastern language, which Babylonian scholars associated with the Thule group, recognized as ancient Sumerian.

Maria Orsic along with Sigrun, another of the Vril Society’s female mediums, began the task of translating these transmissions and discovered they contained instructions for building a circular flight machine.

“The name Vril is the shortening of “VRI-IL” which means “Like God”. Officially Vril was “The All German Society for Metaphysics” which merged with the Thule Gesellschaft and the obscure”
http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/The%20Vril%20Discs.htm

“Aldebaran, a giant red star, is part of the Taurus Constellation and is known as the “Bull’s Eye” due to its position in the heavens. As the “Star of Illumination” it is also known as the “Way” of spiritual enlightenment which the mediums of Vril desperately sought.”

Confused by the strange language and mental images she was receiving through psychic channeling, Maria Orsic of Thule joined with the Vril Gesellschaft which brought in another psychic medium named Sigrun to help translate the alien language (which turned out to be ancient Sumerian) and decipher the strange mental images of a circular flight machine for making contact.


“In December 1943 Maria attended, together with Sigrun, a meeting held by Vril at the seaside resort of Kolberg. The main purpose of the meeting was to deal with the “Aldebaran project”. The Vril mediums had received precise information regarding the habitable planets around the sun Aldebaran and they were willing to plan a trip there. This project was discussed again the 22nd January 1944 in a meeting between Hitler, Himmler, Dr. W. Schumann (scientist and professor in the Technical University of Munich) and Kunkel of the Vril Gesellschaft. It was decided that a Vril 7 “Jäger” would be sent through a dimension channel independent of the speed of light to Aldebaran. According to N. Ratthofer (writer), a first test flight in the dimension channel took place in late 1944. The test flight almost ended in disaster because after the flight the Vril 7 looked “as if it had been flying for a hundred years”. Its outer skin looked aged and had suffered damages in several places.”

http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61586

Maria Orsic disappeared in 1945. The 11th of March of 1945 an internal document of the Vril Gesellschaft was sent to all its members; a letter written by Maria Orsic. The letter ends: “niemand bleibt hier” (noone is staying here). This was the last announcement from Vril, and since then noone heard again from Maria or the rest of members. It is speculated they escaped to Aldebaran.

According to Peter Moon, much of the lore about this mysterious period comes from Jan Van Helsing and a group who produced a video called Secrets of the Third Reich.

Its all interesting, mysterious, and exotic but likely mythology of some sort. But you never know. Since we all know about the cover-ups of many truths by the elite mainstream, to keep the people dumb and uninteresting in things like this.


http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/The%20Vril%20Discs.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoMR_Oj6Qrs
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_flyingobjects55.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndjYLv-hfQI

[KiwiElf]

Maria Orsic (Marija, as it's spelled in the above colorised image) is the most infamous of the "Vril women", with Sigrun probably coming in a close second.

What is known of the others, ie Traute, Gudrun & Heike?

[Zak247]

This is really an interesting myth, tale, story or whatever. Of course, it has major problems in terms of sources for the information.

To establish this as a historical fact, outside of allegory or mythology there needs to be documentation. I mean, she lived in the 20th century so it's not asking a lot for that documentation: Real names, dates, mothers father.

She is supposed to have had a daughter

To make a serious study of this interesting story one has to make serious research, maybe go to Germany; seek out the sources of this tale beyond the sensational and internet fables.

We do know there was a group of German disinformation agents going around at some point that may have been the source of some of this lore.

But bottom line, if its any truth to it; it can be found because this is not something ancient or even too long ago

[KiwiElf]

This is really an interesting myth, tale, story or whatever. Of course, it has major problems in terms of sources for the information.

To establish this as a historical fact, outside of allegory or mythology there needs to be documentation. I mean, she lived in the 20th century so it's not asking a lot for that documentation: Real names, dates, mothers father.

She is supposed to have had a daughter

To make a serious study of this interesting story one has to make serious research, maybe go to Germany; seek out the sources of this tale beyond the sensational and internet fables.

We do know there was a group of German disinformation agents going around at some point that may have been the source of some of this lore.

But bottom line, if its any truth to it; it can be found because this is not something ancient or even too long ago

That's the real conundrum here; the "Deep State" & Secret Societies in every country, are reasonably efficient at hiding, erasing information & rewriting history. (Perhaps that's changing, now).

Their expertise in propaganda is matched by their ability to erase the investigators of the truth, too. ;)

The parallels to Roswell are remarkable; the similar time period, most of the witnesses are now dead, and the only physical evidence in the public domain are newspaper articles (few), photographs and drawings on paper. But there is certainly some smoke to this fire.

I don't disregard Maria Orsic's, or any other so-called "medium"s' abilities, either. Tesla himself (and other notables) have referred to visions, dreams, meditations in helping, guiding or even providing the end results/designs/music etc.

Talk to any "creative person"*** and there is a "process" involved in getting to the end result - that "lightbulb" moment. ("creative person"*** is a bit of a misnomer, btw - everyone possesses the ability in varying degrees). However, very few are able to do it on the first attempt consistently & at a moment's notice.

Spiritually oriented/gifted people have often referred to tapping into the "ether" or "Akashic Record", "Universe", "God", some other "being/spirit/entity", "All-that-is" (or just plain "subconscious") for much of their knowledge & inspiration.

Remember the old saying that went something like this (and where did it come from?):

"Sleep on the problem. In the morning, you'll have the answer"

https://www.inc.com/benjamin-p-hardy/this-10-minute-routine-before-and-after-sleep-will-increase-your-creativity-and-.html

Relying on just remaining physical proof as to something or someone's "reality, existence or reliability" has its drawbacks, too. What remains is not necessarily "proof" that it didn't happen or exist. :)

[Zak247]

This is really an interesting myth, tale, story or whatever. Of course, it has major problems in terms of sources for the information.

To establish this as a historical fact, outside of allegory or mythology there needs to be documentation. I mean, she lived in the 20th century so it's not asking a lot for that documentation: Real names, dates, mothers father.

She is supposed to have had a daughter

To make a serious study of this interesting story one has to make serious research, maybe go to Germany; seek out the sources of this tale beyond the sensational and internet fables.

We do know there was a group of German disinformation agents going around at some point that may have been the source of some of this lore.

But bottom line, if its any truth to it; it can be found because this is not something ancient or even too long ago

That's the real conundrum here; the "Deep State" & Secret Societies in every country, are reasonably efficient at hiding, erasing information & rewriting history. (Perhaps that's changing, now).

Their expertise in propaganda is matched by their ability to erase the investigators of the truth, too. ;)

The parallels to Roswell are remarkable; the similar time period, most of the witnesses are now dead, and the only physical evidence in the public domain are newspaper articles (few), photographs and drawings on paper. But there is certainly some smoke to this fire.

I don't disregard Maria Orsic's, or any other so-called "medium"s' abilities, either. Tesla himself (and other notables) have referred to visions, dreams, meditations in helping, guiding or even providing the end results/designs/music etc.

Talk to any "creative person"*** and there is a "process" involved in getting to the end result - that "lightbulb" moment. ("creative person"*** is a bit of a misnomer, btw - everyone possesses the ability in varying degrees). However, very few are able to do it on the first attempt consistently & at a moment's notice.

Spiritually oriented/gifted people have often referred to tapping into the "ether" or "Akashic Record", "Universe", "God", some other "being/spirit/entity", "All-that-is" (or just plain "subconscious") for much of their knowledge & inspiration.

Remember the old saying that went something like this (and where did it come from?):

"Sleep on the problem. In the morning, you'll have the answer"

https://www.inc.com/benjamin-p-hardy/this-10-minute-routine-before-and-after-sleep-will-increase-your-creativity-and-.html

Relying on just remaining physical proof as to something or someone's "reality, existence or reliability" has its drawbacks, too. What remains is not necessarily "proof" that it didn't happen or exist. :)

You’re right on a lot of things.
You see, the real world doesn’t work like our pc, and superficial ideal world presented to us.
The world we see is a reality show. Not reality, but a reality SHOW. People parading around pretending.
Behind the scenes KKK members talk to black politicians, the CIA deals with so-called terrorists they claim to want to kill, the FBI deals closely with arch criminals. Clinton and Trump are friends. On and on, in reality, black merges with white everyday but they present to us an ideal fantasy world of division. Oh, that has its degree of reality, but what’s real is often something very fundamental and beyond the superficial.

When we read books and go to these internet sites we have to separate the wheat from the chaff and understand the wheat couldn’t exist without the chaff.

[Bill Ryan]

The thread title says it.

Did Maria Orsic really exist? It's a genuine question. I've just e-mailed Joseph Farrell to ask his view, and I'll publish his response. I'd like to ask Peter Levenda, too.





I've just e-mailed Joseph Farrell to ask his view, and I'll publish his response.

Well, that was quick! Here's his reply, literally within minutes:

~~~



I've found NO evidence for it. The story is repeated in some postwar neo-nazi sources, but nothing by way of evidence. I've referred to the story (forget which book), but because of its intrinsic interest. I've not founded any hypotheses or conclusions from it.
I never heard back from Peter Levenda. But I've just found that in this video at 2:42:35, Jimmy Church asks Levenda a similar question: whether the Vril Society was real.

Levenda responds that it's a difficult question, and (like Farrell) he hasn't seen real documentation to prove it existed. But he's quick to add that the Thule Society definitely existed (and Farrell would certainly agree).

Levenda describes Vril as "more of an imaginary society than a real one". Church asks him whether it was imaginary from our viewpoint or theirs, and Levenda suggests "both".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi-DP142sM4

[Lazarus]

Those Germans sure were busy boys
For conjecture there is something for everyone here.
Personally intrigued by the Peri Reis maps.

[Lazarus]

Most credible statement was by the Russian who said it was inconceivable that Germany had such advanced technology in 47

[Brigantia]

I don't think this has been posted here; whether or not someone did exist of that name, the photo is fake. A clearly 1960s face was photoshopped onto a 1940s photo and this highlights the photoshopping onto the original photo.

Edit to add - the original photo was also reversed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvEhExAId4Q

[QueenRia]

Dick Allgire did quite a remarkable remote viewing on Maria Orsic a while ago:

Ib-moYn6OFI

I had never heard of her before, but now looking into it.
Dick Allgire didn't know her either, and his RV results are all the more astounding. So either he's tapping into the thought forms of the myth, or she was real. I'm intuitively leaning towards the latter.

[Bill Ryan]

Dick Allgire did quite a remarkable remote viewing on Maria Orsic a while ago:

Ib-moYn6OFI

I had never heard of her before, but now looking into it.
Dick Allgire didn't know her either, and his RV results are all the more astounding. So either he's tapping into the thought forms of the myth, or she was real. I'm intuitively leaning towards the latter.~~~

Wow, many thanks. That was fascinating, emotional, and dramatic. (A blind target, too.) And it absolutely seems to answer the question posed on this thread — about her really having existed. :flower:

[Isserley]

Another piece of the puzzle about Marija Oršić that I came across: One of the most fascinating stories about Marija Oršić is her mysterious disappearance. According to the stories, Marija sent her last message to the members of the Vril Society on March 11, 1945. In it, she wrote: “None of us are here"

https://blagamisterije.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/rukopis.jpg
Manuscript attributed to Marija Oršić, written in an unknown language

I also sent a request to the state archives for information about her birth in Zagreb on October 31, 1895. The deadline for a response is 15 days, so we'll see, but I'm not holding out much hope. But the RV video above says enough.

[Tintin]

Dick Allgire did quite a remarkable remote viewing on Maria Orsic a while ago:

Ib-moYn6OFI

I had never heard of her before, but now looking into it.
Dick Allgire didn't know her either, and his RV results are all the more astounding. So either he's tapping into the thought forms of the myth, or she was real. I'm intuitively leaning towards the latter.~~~

Wow, many thanks. That was fascinating, emotional, and dramatic. (A blind target, too.) And it absolutely seems to answer the question posed on this thread — about her really having existed. :flower:

Blimey, that was quite something :heart: I'm going to go bold here and say, irrefutable, and that certain myths may be put to bed now; Dick is just way way too reliable with his talents. Extraordinary :sun:

[Isserley]

Yes, admirable work. Right from the start, Dick described Zagreb with precision - the cathedral with its two towers, which was the tallest building at the time and was clearly visible from Ban Jeličić Square, where Marija's father had an architect's office.


https://imgs.search.brave.com/LAvT_dB5mk5iuwP7OtZNqEfmU69695CQ2XC3d12Lvcc/rs:fit:500:0:1:0/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9pbWcu/b2xkdGhpbmcubmV0/Lzg4NjcvMjI3MjE0/NzIvMC9zL1phZ3Jl/Yi1LYXRoZWRyYWxl/LVphZ3JlYi53ZWJw/P3Q9MTcwNDcxMDkz/OA