"Nazi"

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I have become increasingly troubled of late by the liberal use (pun not intended, but it fits very well) of the term "Nazi" for those who lean even slightly to the right, oppose the mainstream media blah, espouse conspiracy theories, or speak out against globalism, collectivism, post-modernism, and a host of other progressive 'isms'.

I dare not even utter the name Trump in the presence of my staunchly socialist, activist, anti-capitalist, Corbynite sister for fear of her wrath. Once she starts ranting it can be quite terrifying. Even on her own tongue I have heard the quiver of that terrible 'N' word begin to form, aimed at simple, normal people who happen to express a different point of view to her. Politics is becoming more and more divisive and vitriolic, to the point where I have often felt it was better to keep silent than speak up, just to keep the peace. That disturbs me. It shouldn't be like this.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Theresa May. I'm not coming from the 'right-wing' here. Politically, I don't know what I call myself. I don't like labels, not of any kind really – they only end up dividing people. I don't like ideologies either (prefer to call them idiotologies). I obviously have political ideals I believe in, such as personal freedom, freedom of speech, equal opportunity, the right to private enterprise, responsibility and self-determination, the right to own property, and equality before the law. Core principles like these. Yet, when attempting to argue my corner it is to little advantage, especially when I inform 'liberalized' friends that some of these ideals actually belong to the right. It doesn't matter that some belong to the left as well. I instantly lose them on that trigger word, 'right.' That's how conditioned they are. I see them talking, but I don't see them thinking. They don't do their own research, they parrot only what the television tells them. That's how fashionable liberal thinking has become. It's become a trend, a norm. It is the group-think autopilot that everyone has switched to 'On', while they sit back to watch the in-flight movie.

To a certain crowd, 'Nazi' has become the go-to word for anyone who thinks or says or writes anything different.

'Nazi', used in the pejorative sense (when isn't it? I suppose), is not only a deeply distasteful slur, it is tremendously inaccurate. For one, the Nazi party was founded on a socialist platform. Rendered in English, it stood for "National Socialist German Workers' Party." They were socialists through and through. They were branded as hard-right only because they adopted fascism (in basic terms, national rejuvenation and racial purification through violence). I embrace nothing of that, nor does anyone I have ever known. And neither does Trump, that is clear.

Besides, fascism is more a form of psychopathy than a political theory. Colour me judgemental, but the Nazis were essentially little more than a bunch of hooligans and bigots with big guns and fat wallets. Let's leave it at that. Yet, political sentiments today, such as they are, that lean even mildly to the centre-right, is enough to have one branded as one of these Nazis, an actual Nazi, by the left.

A very close friend recently saw reports on mainstream news of the ICE situation, and those separated kids. It made headlines over here of course – anything slightly critical of Trump makes big loud headlines. He called Trump a bleeping Nazi for it (never mind that it wasn't actually Trump who created that mess – it started with the democrats). That saddened me, and I'm not even an American – although I do have blood ties, and I've also spent a lot of time in the States, have worked and lived there too (and would like to again). I have since come to very much admire the constitution, the values on which it was created, and tellingly, above all else, the notion of a Republic over a Monarchy. (I truly envy that).

All I see is Trump attempting to uphold (and restore) these principals, while dismantling, piece by careful piece, forces in the background that have slowly been trying to destroy them. And that is a damn noble thing, the very best of things, and long overdue. But still they attack him. Still they hate him. I truly hope Q-anon really is what we hope it is. Once it begins peeling back the layers for all to see, no one will be able to deny any more – even the liberal activists – the stench of corruption at the heart of western politics. I pray for that day, when progress can really begin.

But I guess what I'm trying to say is that, in the meanwhile, I'm worried how the propaganda war is disrupting the social order. People are turning against one another. That's already well underway in the US, but it's beginning here now too. I encounter it every day.

Each and every one of us has a friend, a colleague, a spouse, a relative, who is deeply indoctrinated by the MSM view of things. They might not call you a Nazi for singing another tune, but they might call you a nutter for it. (And I've got that particular T-shirt, in many different colours and covering many 'fringe' theories.) I've been struggling with this of late, and I was wondering what others have experienced, and how they're dealing with it?

If you haven't, and have no idea what I'm talking about, then buckle up I do think. The word 'Nazi' may soon be coming to a pub near you. Or a workplace, a church, a school, a bedroom...

[Valerie Villars]

Wow. What a thoughtful, well written piece. I have not encountered this so much, mostly because I am no longer in the workforce, don't do social media and don't have a lot of interaction on that level with my family.

I do see the hysteria and I feel it. I have to say that yes, I am concerned. I really admire humankind and to see the level of intolerance and stupidity these days is very disheartening. But, you can't shove people's noses into it like a pile of poo and say "bad dog" and expect they'll get it.

My father, who is almost eighty, said a few weeks ago "I hate Trump". I said "I like him and we better not discuss it" because I knew it was just going to get into a useless argument and I love my father who is actually a very compassionate and intelligent human being.

I would love to save everyone as much as I realize I can't. They have to save themselves and some people will never question authority or who the experts are, just because they have some stupid label.

There are no easy answers.

[dynamo]

...
Each and every one of us has a friend, a colleague, a spouse, a relative, who is deeply indoctrinated by the MSM view of things. They might not call you a Nazi for singing another tune, but they might call you a nutter for it. (And I've got that particular T-shirt, in many different colours and covering many 'fringe' theories.) I've been struggling with this of late, and I was wondering what others have experienced, and how they're dealing with it?

....
Good post, thanks Star Mariner.
I have long been considered a "fringe thinker" but never labeled a "Nazi" that I am aware of.
Well, not to my face, anyway LOL.
The past few years, I tend to steer clear of fringe subjects in social situations, not because I am afraid of being called a "nutter" but because most of the conversations would end up with me giving up as I do not have the time or energy to spend debating fringe theories unless I am with "old friends" I am comfortable with.
Therefore, i tend to discuss such fringe ideas mostly here at P.A. since I feel more comfortable and if I do not wish to participate in a debate, no harm, no foul.
Star Mariner, I would not take being called a "Nazi" by shallow people seriously.
I would just stay clear of them.
Of course, that is my opinion only.

[Innocent Warrior]

I’m like Dynamo with my views but I see it too, it’s unsettling. They come off as hysterical and not in the humorous way.

[dynamo]

I’m like Dynamo with my views but I see it too, it’s unsettling. They come off as hysterical and not in the humorous way.
Rachel, yes that seems to be quite common.
They tend to interrupt and not listen to my complete rebuttal.
Hence, I no longer engage with them.
I find it frustrating and attribute it to many of them being brainwashed, or so set in their beliefs, that there is no point in debating with them.

[Baby Steps]

The following graphic may help, unfortunately I do not fully agree with it as it places NAZISM in the extreme right/authoritarianism whereas in truth the Nazism of Hitler was Socialist nationalist authoritarianism in that it was not hostile to state owned economic activities, although it was hostile to unions.

The current identity politics we suffer from equates Nazism with Racism, and so it is easy to shut down, because racism is not a figment of right, left, authoritarian or libertarian. It is just a delusion of a few knuckle dragging fools who are so marginal that they do not deserve our attention.

If one is a centrist, like me, one needs to remind leftists, that the enemy is really authoritarianism, because, as history demonstrates, authoritarian socialism AKA communism is responsible for as many horrors as any other model.

If one is a right-oriented libertarian, one needs to counter leftist arguments with the point that individual liberties being protected CAN BE a tool against crony capitalism, corruption and environmental destruction.

It is important to make the point that our current right wing governments are NOT libertarian or virtuous. They are Crony Capitalist- they act for corporate interests, against common interests.

For a leftist it is important to remind libertarians, that a freedom protective socialist society is key, and different from Mao, Stalin etc. The giant institutions we build must be transparent, responsible, accountable, and subject to fair laws. Their ownership is a separate matter.

https://i.imgur.com/KYMbYnr.jpg

[Mark]

The AltCom is more and more associated with what the MSM has branded the Alt Right. We are not all that. While i agree with many of the same issues as many here regarding the ills and depradations of the Deep State I am not convinced that Mr. Trump has mine or my family's best interests at heart. So i cannot support him. I have ny suspicions about QAnon and the military implications as well and the storm that they want to occur, as I watch the Civil Rights movement in the USA being eviscerated while many here stay silent about it or overtly approve it.

I know what a Nazi is, I also know that it is easy to brand people by association. These seem to be the times of separation for us here in the AltCom finally as fear and hope collide and the attempts of TPTB to separate us seem to be working.

In the form of politics, no less. And I mean less in every sense of the word. It is disgusting.

If you don't believe in ethnic superiority or policies that support it then you shouldn't own the pejorative. As white nationalism is the hallmark of the difference here in the AltCom, those who fear some fabled ethnic apocalypse will chime in heavily and shortly. Its funny how these new lines of demarcation so closely resemble the old ones. Almost as if they've been deliberately fomented.

[Baby Steps]

The AltCom is more and more associated with what the MSM has branded the Alt Right. We are not all that. While i agree with many of the same issues as many here regarding the ills and depradations of the Deep State I am not convinced that Mr. Trump has mine or my fsmily's best interests at heart. So i cannoy support him. I have ny suspicions about QAnon and the military implications as well and the stoem that they want to occur, as I watch the Civil Rights movement in the USA being eviscerated while many here stay silent about it or overtly approve it.

I know what a Nazi is, I also know that it is easy to brand people by association. These seem to be the times of separation for us here in the AltCom finally as fear and hope collide and the attempts of TPTB to separate us seem to be working.

In the form of politics, no less. And I mean less in every sense of the word. It is disgusting.

If you don't believe in ethnic superiority or policies that support it then you shouldn't own the pejorative. As white nationalism is the hallmark of the difference here in the AltCom, those who fear some fabled ethnic apocalypse will chime in heavily and shortly. Its funny how these new lines of demarcation so closely resemble the old ones. Almost as if they've been deliberately fomented.

Yes.

I get confused - how can one be a libertarian and yet not a civil rights advocate?

For those who manage THAT intellectual contortion (which I cannot fathom) , my fall back socialist argument is - build structures that invest in people & protect social well being-particularly the bottom safety net

Why? Because it is the moral and right thing to do

if that fails the easier answer is - stabilise society so that the less advantaged do not start building guillotines, or raiding posh homes etc.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Thanks Star Mariner, well put.

I too keep my mouth shut in public to a large extent. But it still slips out from time to time. Like the other day here in Toronto when the skies were full of chemtrails and I was startled by the obviousness of it. I thought here is my chance to show someone the truth right in front of their eyes. Well, they were not impressed. After all, we work not ten miles from Toronto's giant airport. Of course these trails were far higher than any plane landing or taking off...The Famous Toronto "X"...

Since fascism is the preferred course for the new world order, I keep an eye out for signs of it in my back yard. It is everywhere. It frustrates me that so few understand or are even aware.

This world of ours is run amok. It relies on the most destructive of economic engines possible to imagine. Oligarchs moving their pieces around on the board, playing off us pawns as they position their knights and rooks. No socialist system can compete with capitalism for brute force objectivism - he who has the money makes the rules. And no altruistic intention can overcome the pragmatism of the rich. Our system runs on unskilled labor, without it the economy grinds to a halt. Why? Because many of the jobs and businesses rely on minimum wage to turn a profit. The greatest business success stories come from those that used the minimum wage model as their ethos.

As the labor force in the west grows older and more skilled their economies cry out for more unskilled workers to exploit. Welcome the migrant and the immigrant, the political activist and the guerrilla warrior, the refugee and the displaced! Come to the land of plenty and learn to live on less than enough, and thanks for coming...

[Baby Steps]

Not to belittle the problem, is the 'Nazi' definition of any relevance today?

Well, what did they stand for then?

- corporate tyranny
- The concept of one race being superior to another (scientific racism)
- The concept that the superior race should have power over the inferiors
- The concept that a nation has a racial identity and, if it consists of the superior race, then the Nation is superior, and should have power over racially inferior nations
- The concept that certain racially defined groups in Germany were a source of problems, and required a solution.

In our modern societies, the science of Racism has been abandoned and protections against racism and discrimination for other reasons are enshrined in law. So is there no Nazism?

- If the Government states that a racially defined group is undermining the nation that is Nazism
- If the Government dismantles protections against racial discrimination or any other type, that is Nazism
- If the Government uses its power to favour Corporate advantage at the expense of the people they were elected to serve then that is Nazism
- If the Government strips away our very weak democratic checks & balances and other protections that is Nazism
- Arguably, if the Government is weak or in denial of institutionalised racism, then that resembles Nazism

[Cardillac]

many people spit out labelings/terms they know absolutely nothing whatsoever about because they haven't done their homework to find out where the labeling originated- it's not possible to understand anything at a profound level unless one knows what its origins were; they just think they do- and that includes the labeling "Nazi"-

sort of like the concept "conspiracy theory" (who originally coined this concept?- the CIA after JFK's assassination- why?- because too many people were questioning the "officious" scenario); there is no conspiracy "theory"; either there's a conspiracy or not-

now back to "Nazi": this has to be one of the most intricate, complicated, convoluted and misunderstood mvt's of the 20th century; if one really wants to understand it (and most don't) one needs to read the oevres of Dr. Joseph P. Farrell, Peter Levenda and Jim Marrs just for starters to discover how a simple workers' party of only 6 members morphed into the monstrous machine it did with conflicting agendas between its factions-

then add New Zealand researcher Greg Hallett's very controversial but very compelling book "Hitler Was a British Agent" (never judge a book by its cover including title) just to confuse matters more for the sheeple who use the term "Nazi" so glibly and blithely-

and according to Benton Bradberry in his "The Myth of German Villany" (deals with how non-Nazi Germans suffered in WW2) the term Nazi does not come from Nazional Sozialismus (national socialism) but from the S. German(Bavarian)/Austrian name of Ignaz (pronounced Ignats); Ignaz was a slang term meaning a person considered to be a country bumpkin which is how the origins of the Nazi party were initially perceived-

please stay well all-

Larry

[Valerie Villars]

Well and of course there is nothing wrong with identification of your heritage. In fact, it is a good thing. It is when people start seeing themselves as victims or better than another "identification" and feel the need to make right the past, the real problems begin.

Why can't we just deal with the who and the now of what we are? I honestly don't understand that part.

[Dennis Leahy]

Same thing with the word "fascist", which has become an adjective of desperation (like "f-bombs") to describe someone considered horrible. (If you go by Mussolini's definition, fascism is the marriage of "corporate" and "state", which I see as synonymous with "corporatism". Using that definition, the USA, INC. has its fascist roots in the 1800s, not with trump's inauguration. Could the USA, INC. have been more fascistic under obama, for example? To this observer, fascism really started to gain full control of the US in the 1970s, and the USA, INC was fully fascist by the time billybob clinton was done.

I see trump as "nationalist" (in rhetoric), which of course, is the "N" in "Nazi", and I believe where people started calling trump a nazi. That, in turn, did evidently either embolden the swastika-wielding, white-supremacist neo-nazis in the US or else maybe the media just shone a light brightly on them.

I hope that my fellow Avalonians can agree that the impetus, energy, vibe, agenda of the nazi/neo-nazi ideals and agenda are wrong and bad.

I think trump is an outrageous fool for not clearly distancing himself from the nazis. Nazis aren't trumps "base", they are a tiny fraction. His base is composed of corporatists and militarists, nationalists, the investor class, some overt racists*, some "American" exceptionalists*, die-hard political partisans that happen to be republicans, zionists, some light-skinned people of European decent that say they are not racist but just want to be surrounded by the white-dominant culture that Leave It To Beaver taught them,... and some people that heard trump say something true - such as saying to hillary, "You are a criminal!", or such as pointing out "fake news!", or such as saying he was going to expose 9/11, or that he was going to "drain the swamp", or that he was going to "MAGA", which is sweet nectar to anyone who has watched as US manufacturing corporations moved to where the slaves work cheaper and no one bothers you about releasing massive toxins.

*(democrats are usually MUCH better at hiding their racism. The very same democrats in power positions have fully participated in the slaughter of millions of 'brown-skinned' people, with missiles, bombs, and sanctions approved by BOTH factions of the duopoly. It's not a trump thing or a republican thing, it is a duopoly thing. It's actually more xenophobic than racist, but acknowledging the sociopathy shows it is dispassionate indifference, not passionate hatred. It's exceptionalism, or more like Carlin's, "There's a Big Club... and you ain't in it", where the ruling class deem everyone else to be expendable, collateral damage annoyingly delaying their agenda. It's, "Nothing personal; just business." If the weak, easy to pick-off nations in a strategic region were full of light-skinned, English-speaking Christians, the duopoly and their controllers/handlers would find a way to kill and terrorize the citizens and depose the government and install a puppet and commit false flags and take their resources away and set up military bases to protect the extraction of resources and to add to regional hegemonic control there, too.)

[what is a name?]

As Star Mariner says "Once it begins peeling back the layers for all to see, no one will be able to deny any more – even the liberal activists – the stench of corruption at the heart of western politics."

Has Mr Trump kicked a hornets nest resulting in the people of the U.S and around the world suddenly paying much more attention to 'what goes on'?

The same as with Brexit in the UK.

The same with the Catalonian movement.

And many more areas of political/social unrest around the planet.

Do you think that the 'people' being 'woken' to what 'goes on' is by accident?

Nothing 'happens' by accident.

Sit back, smile and watch as the World awakens :happythumbsup:

How your head deals with it all is up to you.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Thank you for all the thoughtful, insightful posts on this tricky theme. Excellent input, as always.


Well and of course there is nothing wrong with identification of your heritage. In fact, it is a good thing. It is when people start seeing themselves as victims or better than another "identification" and feel the need to make right the past, the real problems begin.


That's very true, and this is the heart of the matter: identity politics. That's the big bomb the radical-left has dropped on western society. We must sort ourselves into distinct groups now. Over time, we inherit the victimhood of our group, and are beholden to defend/campaign in its name for social justice, whether it's class, occupation, social status, education, language, disabled/able bodied, race, religion, politics, nationality, gender, LGBT, which has now swollen to LGBTQQIP2SAA...and more probably coming. Once part of that group, that's it. We are now divided.

That's where I feel the political weaponization of the term 'Nazi' has come from: it's a noxious manifestation of identity politics, where anyone wrong/anti/other is simply and casually referred to as a Nazi. The radical far-left has almost nothing of note to argue with anyway, so when cornered, it reverts to name-calling.

[Baby Steps]

That's where I feel the political weaponization of the term 'Nazi' has come from: it's a noxious manifestation of identity politics, where anyone wrong/anti/other is simply and casually referred to as a Nazi. The radical far-left has almost nothing of note to argue with anyway, so when cornered, it reverts to name-calling.


Yes- I believe we have a big problem here. The youth are the great hope of the world, and part of the awakening is their attachment to great ideas about promoting a better, more moral society.

But so far they have been co-opted by identity politics. Even the clever ones. Just look at the Clinton/Trump thing. If one party is observant of political correctness and favours minorities etc, and the other definitely has some racist/nazi overtones - but IS a democrat (small d), then one is 'bad' and the other is 'good'.

The soft left signals political correctness while they covertly implement the same nazi corporate tyranny as the crony right. Identity politics conflict and posturing serves as a distraction from this.

When the right gets in, we get more theatre. Confront the 'Nazis' in the street, you will feel better. Ignore the 'Nazis' in the halls of power. Tommy Robinson is like the 'Unite the right' freaks - distracting the suggestible from real issues.

THE NAZIS WERE WARMONGERS, like Blair, Bush, Obama, Clinton, Cameron, May, Trump, Sarkozy, and Macron.
THE NAZIS WERE DICTATORS. We are IN DICTATORSHIP, because our left & right are united to create wars against our will. No choice given to electors.
THE NAZIS WERE GENOCIDAL, like the Saudis in Yemen (who nobody is allowed to criticise) , Like the Israelis in Gaza (ditto)
THE NAZIS USED FALSE FLAG ATTACKS TO UNDERMINE DEMOCRACY (Reichstag Fire).
THE NAZIS USED FALSE FLAG ATTACKS TO START WARS (Polish alleged attacks prior to German invasion)
THE NAZIS USED PROPAGANDA, LIES AND FAKE NEWS
THE NAZIS TOLD PEOPLE THAT THEY WERE BEING ATTACKED
THE NAZIS BUILT CONCENTRATION CAMPS FOR UNDESIRABLES

Does history repeat itself?

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Does history repeat itself?

Mate, it so definitely does! The deep state are the real Nazi's, the Nazi's of today (they never really went away, just underground). This is like WWII part 2. Is Trump a latter day Churchill/Roosevelt?

We can hope.

[perhaps another D-Day is just around the corner]

[Dennis Leahy]

... The radical far-left has almost nothing of note to argue with anyway, so when cornered, it reverts to name-calling.

The "radical far left" in the US is the teeny-tiny fractured leftovers of anti-war activists, anti-corporatist and anti-globalist activists, and environmental activists. The group you're talking about is the democrats. The democrat duopoly gang are pro-war, in or aspiring to be the investment class (that waltzes and beds with corporatists and globalists), and displays sociopathically depraved indifference to ecocide. There is honestly nothing about the democrat gang that even remotely fits any colloquial use of the word "left."

I'm pretty ignorant about UK politics (http://idontgetpolitics.co.uk/right-left-wing), but read the other day that the Tories cheered in Parliament when they defeated a bill that would have raised the pay of firefighters. So, I would think it to be better focused to say that was the Tories rather than the 'radical right' in the UK. Sorry if that is a weak example, and hope you know what I'm getting at.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

No problem Dennis, I get you. Forgive my terminology, you're right of course. I branded them 'far-left' incorrectly; I should rephrase it hard-left, or staunch-left. Because they are not really far to the left – perhaps they're not left at all any more. It seems they've become entrenched in a morphed, corrupted version of it, which they've been conditioned to believe in.

I think many have forgotten the very values they once stood for. Kennedy was a true democrat. I think he'd turn in his grave if he saw what his party has become.

[hope that makes sense]

re UK Politics. From what I have observed over the years, there's not a whole lot of difference between Tory/Labour (right/left), not when you get down to it. They may say different things certainly, but what they do is another thing (no matter which side sits in Number 10). UK Politics is like rolling a boulder up hill; its laborious, confusing, contrary, full of shouting and mud-slinging and very little seems to get done.

[Nasu]

Thank you Star Mariner for this well written, thoughtful and insightful observation of a world wide phenomenon, in the English speaking parts of the world at least.

I work with a lot of people in my day to day, all over the world and I experience this bias all the time. I'm old enough to remember before the web when you only had three classes of understanding; informed, semi informed and the rest, the unwashed masses. Perhaps today with our supposed access to more info we feel we are no longer simply unwashed masses but fancy ourselves as semi informed? Perhaps our ego is partly to play in this problem? Also I see it as a bit of a by product of our species quest for convenience, usually via technology of some sort.

What I mean is that many of us have given over the learning and understanding part of our brain to the media in some sort of way or fashion via our gadgets. About half of the people I talk to on a daily basis will reference some sort of political or media talking point to conclude their thoughts or argument. I read on facebook last week that.. I saw this cool Youtube about that.. You should check out the Redit article about that.. Did you see that show that was all about that? Did you see that on Twitter?

The worst is when you are face to face with someone and they reach into their pocket for their phone to finish their conversations. It's a poverty of imagination, understanding and so sad when people give their learning over to anyone else, media, party, government, religion, google, anyone. If that is not the definition of being a Nazi or under "their" spell, then I don't understand the history of the Nazis.

Our last line of defense is our capacity to think for ourselves and to at least have the humility to accept when we don't know something, without having to reach for our phone.

As for the poor Nazi's spinning in their graves shouting "zees arn't Nazis zees are Capitalists!" I say let them spin. People will forever come up with ways to sum up the opposition in one succinct derogatory word. It's not the first "N" word to rise to infamy, i'm sure it won't be the last.

I think the only real solution is to remain true to ourselves and our own quest for understanding and wholeness. I have found that I make more allies when I laugh at the silliness on both sides of an idea or situation than side with either. Sadly whoever we vote for the government keeps on getting in!

That you feel you should not speak up, especially to your own sister, troubles me though. Please remember that in your part of the world Star Mariner, YOU are our only hope.

No pressure. Carry on...x.. N

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Many thanks indeed Nasu for your great post. I do speak up, and often, but only where I feel it's appropriate, or when I feel the other person might be receptive (hence why I post here - because all you guys are receptive). Perhaps that's playing it safe, and I'd readily plead guilty to that. I'm just not very good at confrontation!

I'm definitely with you on the issue of gadgets and technology. Fascination became addiction, now I feel there's a slide towards absolute dependence on them. What's worse (especially in the young) is their reliance in, and trust of, all that diseased social media and music pouring into their minds. They're plugged into that junk day and night like an I.V. line. Very troubling. One can only hope and pray the madness will soon be at an end. I feel it has to, or we just ain't gonna make it!

[Foxie Loxie]

Did all the "hippies" grow up & become mature adults?! :o

[Caliban]

... The radical far-left has almost nothing of note to argue with anyway, so when cornered, it reverts to name-calling.

The "radical far left" in the US is the teeny-tiny fractured leftovers of anti-war activists, anti-corporatist and anti-globalist activists, and environmental activists. The group you're talking about is the democrats. The democrat duopoly gang are pro-war, in or aspiring to be the investment class (that waltzes and beds with corporatists and globalists), and displays sociopathically depraved indifference to ecocide. There is honestly nothing about the democrat gang that even remotely fits any colloquial use of the word "left."



So true. The "radical" left fizzled out a long time ago in terms of political energy. Some of those people went into the Environmental areas and movements. Remember they tried to paint Obama as some commie loving fellow traveler? What a joke. Without the "radical left" the V. war might've gone on and on, like some recent other wars. Most of them got absorbed into the money mind consciousness of America. (Happy 4th ;) ) Yeah, what you got now are some sad sounding soulless talkers mouthing enervated pablum for Rachel Maddow and the other teary eyed millionaires to gorge on.

Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio? (Or Bernie ?)

[Ernie Nemeth]

Denis:
Same thing with the word "fascist", which has become an adjective of desperation (like "f-bombs") to describe someone considered horrible. (If you go by Mussolini's definition, fascism is the marriage of "corporate" and "state", which I see as synonymous with "corporatism".

I'm pretty sure that fascist is an Italian word or derivative. My guess would be that the word as we know it was probably first coined by Mussolini or one of his crowd.
Fascist means bundle of sticks. From the idea that one stick snaps easily, but ten bound together is much more difficult to break.

Foxie:

Did all the "hippies" grow up & become mature adults?!



Not me!

[AutumnW]

The current trajectory in American culture and politics is highly fascist. And Nazis, contrary to the common meathead interpretatation were not so much socialist as fascist.

So, in some case the term Nazi is highly appropriate. To call Trump a Nazi, for example is okay, although most Nazi (fascists) are pro-Nationalists. Trump is pro-himself and is going to kick his supporters to the curb, first opportunity he gets.

[boolacalaca]

Politics is becoming more and more divisive and vitriolic, to the point where I have often felt it was better to keep silent than speak up, just to keep the peace. That disturbs me. It shouldn't be like this.


Thank you for your post - as others have noted, it's very well thought out and written. I wonder, though, in the long run how wise or effective it is to keep silent in order to keep the peace. Does keeping silent really keep the peace or only push the issue off until an even more contentious future? Perhaps if good people spoke their truth, regardless how apoplectic of a tantrum it might evoke from the fringe radicals, the preponderance of reasonable thought would take the spotlight off the triggered snowflakes. If you yield the field of battle to them constantly, who do you expect to prevail?

Given that the popular vote tally in the last US presidential election demonstrates that tens of millions in the US do not agree with those who use knee-jerk slurs like "Nazi" or "Fascist", perhaps staying silent is counterproductive. A child will continue with its tantrum until it sees that it is not having the intended reaction. Since one of the child-radical purposes lately is to control the narrative, then ultimately keeping the peace in the long run means responding to the tantrum like adults, thus not giving the child the thing it shouldn't have and showing the child that the tantrum is powerless to direct things. Giving the child what it wants will only embolden it to its tactics and ensure more severe tantrums in the future.

[turiya]

Politics is becoming more and more divisive and vitriolic, to the point where I have often felt it was better to keep silent than speak up, just to keep the peace. That disturbs me. It shouldn't be like this.


Thank you for your post - as others have noted, it's very well thought out and written. I wonder, though, in the long run how wise or effective it is to keep silent in order to keep the peace. Does keeping silent really keep the peace or only push the issue off until an even more contentious future? Perhaps if good people spoke their truth, regardless how apoplectic of a tantrum it might evoke from the fringe radicals, the preponderance of reasonable thought would take the spotlight off the triggered snowflakes. If you yield the field of battle to them constantly, who do you expect to prevail?

Given that the popular vote tally in the last US presidential election demonstrates that tens of millions in the US do not agree with those who use knee-jerk slurs like "Nazi" or "Fascist", perhaps staying silent is counterproductive. A child will continue with its tantrum until it sees that it is not having the intended reaction. Since one of the child-radical purposes lately is to control the narrative, then ultimately keeping the peace in the long run means responding to the tantrum like adults, thus not giving the child the thing it shouldn't have and showing the child that the tantrum is powerless to direct things. Giving the child what it wants will only embolden it to its tactics and ensure more severe tantrums in the future.

With regard to your analogy, the end result of a child throwing a tantrum, is the child ends up quietly falling asleep.

The tantrum is, in fact, a symptom of the child needing to sleep. When a parent attempts to quiet the child, the child understands that the tantrum is working to gain the attention of the adult. This is, in effect, works as a reward for the child throwing the tantrum. Paying attention - i.e. reacting to the tantrum - ensures that the tantrum will only happen again. IMO



The Babies Are Growing Up... And They're Gettting Cranky (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-05/babies-are-growing-and-theyre-gettting-cranky)

https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/styles/teaser_small/public/2018-07/0_cHC5N5NDdBcy-NQs.jpg?itok=WB3zZJOf (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-05/babies-are-growing-and-theyre-gettting-cranky)

"...and now the babies are growing restless. The babies are growing cranky. The old lullabies aren’t keeping them asleep anymore..."
JUL 5, 2018 11:05 PM

:)

[turiya]

I think trump is an outrageous fool for not clearly distancing himself from the nazis.

That would be the way of the politically correct politician. For Trump, it had nothing to do with him. So, why provide any reaction, especially to the MSM who was asking the question. He simply denied that he knew anything about who David Duke was, or what he represented.

It was a total attempt, by the Main Stream Media, to make up a hit-piece on Trump by having him comment on David Duke's support for his candidacy.


Nazis aren't trumps "base", they are a tiny fraction.

Nazis & white supremacists simply attempted to ride on the back of Trump's successful run for president. The media played a big role in blowing that way out of proportion. Like they did with a lot of other issues - the travel ban, immigrant children being separated from their parents, Stormy Daniels, the Iran nuke deal, Russia collusion, on & on & on.


His base is composed of corporatists and militarists, nationalists, the investor class, some overt racists*, some "American" exceptionalists*, die-hard political partisans that happen to be republicans, zionists, some light-skinned people of European decent that say they are not racist but just want to be surrounded by the white-dominant culture that Leave It To Beaver taught them,... and some people that heard trump say something true - such as saying to hillary, "You are a criminal!", or such as pointing out "fake news!", or such as saying he was going to expose 9/11, or that he was going to "drain the swamp", or that he was going to "MAGA", which is sweet nectar to anyone who has watched as US manufacturing corporations moved to where the slaves work cheaper and no one bothers you about releasing massive toxins.

I think you left out the working middle-class, the apathetic, those that haven't voted in decades (like me) & those that live & work in fly-over America. As the following Breitbart article reports on the rest of the middle-class America is just recently picking up on...

Young White Men Abandon Democrats, (https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/07/03/young-white-men-abandon-democrats-flock-to-trumps-economic-nationalism/)
Flock to Trump’s Economic Nationalism (https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/07/03/young-white-men-abandon-democrats-flock-to-trumps-economic-nationalism/)
July 3, 2018

President Trump’s reshaping of the GOP from being aligned to the Chamber of Commerce to a party serving the interests of America’s working and middle class is winning over young white American men en masse.

...It's not a trump thing or a republican thing, it is a duopoly thing. It's actually more xenophobic than racist...

Xenophobia is the fear and distrust of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia)

That which is deemed foreign or strange - foreign or strange - because what politician in the last 50 years has had the guts to stand up to the criminals in charge? Who had on the day of his inauguration declared war on those that are part of the Deep State...

Yes - xenophobic - because the D's on the left & R's on the right have fear & distrust in a president that they have no control over. Yes, that's xenophobia alright. Fear & distrust is a symptom of moving into the unknown. And, that's where the career establishment politicians are going to. They don't know where they are going to end up!

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I wonder, though, in the long run how wise or effective it is to keep silent in order to keep the peace. Does keeping silent really keep the peace or only push the issue off until an even more contentious future?

Thanks boolacalaca. In another post, I said I didn't really like confrontation, as in clashing with those who aren't open to another point of view. I have tried broaching certain topics on occasion. But they're so entrenched in their own positions it's quite pointless. I guess that's the reason why.

It's the same reason I don't bring up UFO's very much either - to friends, colleagues, family etc. At worst, it ends up in ridicule. The best I can hope for is the challenge, "Prove it then." Which I can't, and that ends the discussion.

[Foxie Loxie]

Personal opinion here.....I would say that the state of affairs we find ourselves in today, here in the U.S., is directly due to so many keeping silent for SO many years & not being involved in politics at all. :silent:

[amor]

Dear dear Dennis: Thank you for a perfect piece and for the hearty laugh it gave me in spots. I needed that.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

This has to stop. It's eroding the fabric of society.

Says Paul Joseph Watson.

As the liberal hard-left grows ever more militant and (ironically) intolerant, relationships, friendships, even families themselves, are being torn apart.

9SR3GhM2eUc

[A Voice from the Mountains]

The following graphic may help, unfortunately I do not fully agree with it as it places NAZISM in the extreme right/authoritarianism whereas in truth the Nazism of Hitler was Socialist nationalist authoritarianism in that it was not hostile to state owned economic activities, although it was hostile to unions.

This needs to be taught in schools in both Europe and America:

"Right" and "left" do not mean the same thing in the United States as they do in Europe.

The terms "right-wing" and "left-wing" come from the French Revolution which, if you remember, began around the exact same time that the United States Constitution was being ratified and the US government created for the first time.

In the French Revolution, the conservatives (monarchists) sat on the right side of the Assemble Nationale (no accent marks, sorry), and the more radical Jacobins and other proto-Marxists and mobsters sat on the left side.

In the United States, conservatism is associated with Thomas Jefferson and Jeffersonianism, which is based on limited government and has nothing to do with monarchy. This was the predominant political theory of the early republic after Jefferson defeated Adams and inaugurated the "Era of Good Feelings" when Jeffersonians ruled for a total of 24 straight years, 6 straight presidential terms, and whose underlying philosophy has been foundational to United States federal politics ever since.

In Europe, Napoleon is considered "right-wing." In the US, he is simply a dictator -- and violates the principles of Jeffersonianism in nearly every way possible.

The modern left in both the United States and Europe has become obsessed with Marxism in economics and identity politics in social discussions, so explaining the original "left-wing" is irrelevant. In America, it originally represented a king of Enlightenment radicalism which no longer exists, but to which Jefferson could also be said to have been involved. (This is why both Republicans and Democrats claim Jefferson as their own, though Jefferson himself disdained party politics.)


(And in Brazil, the capitalists are the left-wingers! Imagine the confusion that could cause in international discussions!)



If one is a centrist, like me, one needs to remind leftists, that the enemy is really authoritarianism, because, as history demonstrates, authoritarian socialism AKA communism is responsible for as many horrors as any other model.

I agree with everything except "as many...as." I believe it's more like "more than any other model known to man." Fascism has never killed anything approaching 100 million people like communism has, and pretending that isn't true is a form of communist brainwashing in and of itself. I see it all the time though. It's the same complex as elevating Hitler's atrocities over those of Stalin and Mao for purely ideological reasons. Some figures put Mao at 50 million or more people massacred in China. The facts and emotional hype, for political reasons, are completely manipulated and out of all relation with who is truly the murderous monster throughout modern history.

It's almost as if people are thinking, "Sure, Mao may have killed more than 10 times as many people as Hitler, but Hitler's pride in his own people disgusts me so much, and Marxism sounds so nice in theory, that Mao probably wasn't that bad after all and certainly not as bad as Hitler."

Maybe I'm off but I strongly feel there is some kind of social programming going on like this, even if unconsciously, in most of these radicals' heads when they are spouting off about being communist or socialist and actually look like they have pride in themselves for saying it. That, along with the old favorite, "but that wasn't REAL communism...."



If one is a right-oriented libertarian, one needs to counter leftist arguments with the point that individual liberties being protected CAN BE a tool against crony capitalism, corruption and environmental destruction.

One critique I have grown to appreciate of libertarianism: it has no defense mechanism against identity politics, or any other form of collectivized politics. Many libertarians have even supported the liberal open border policies that have led to the beginnings of Shariah Law in Canada and Europe, with the criminalization of religious "hate speech" being construed now as any form of criticism of Islamic practice. So ironically they begin by supporting free speech and end by helping its elimination.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

While i agree with many of the same issues as many here regarding the ills and depradations of the Deep State I am not convinced that Mr. Trump has mine or my family's best interests at heart. So i cannot support him. I have ny suspicions about QAnon and the military implications as well and the storm that they want to occur, as I watch the Civil Rights movement in the USA being eviscerated while many here stay silent about it or overtly approve it.

A lot of the policies, like Affirmative Action, were bad ideas to begin with and aren't even effective. Remember, the Civil Rights movement came to a head under a guy (LBJ) who is quoted as not only saying terrible things about black people, but openly admitting that he was expanding the welfare state to make blacks addicted to government benefits so they would in turn become dependent on the Democratic party.

So I understand you might think gutting these programs is bad for the black community, but the record-low black unemployment rate should be a clue that barriers are being taken down rather than put back up. Think of all the single mothers on welfare, popping out as many babies as possible for the benefits, while the dads are all locked up for failing to pay child support. Think of all those kids growing up without father figures, with selfish mothers who essentially only had them as a career, and what that has done to the black community over successive generations. Because those are the policies you're talking about, that came out of the Civil Rights era, if not with FDR. Cities have been devastated by these policies for decades. And Democrats still win those same inner cities, every single time. And every single time they get elected, things just get worse.



Not to belittle the problem, is the 'Nazi' definition of any relevance today?

Well, what did they stand for then?

- corporate tyranny
- The concept of one race being superior to another (scientific racism)
- The concept that the superior race should have power over the inferiors
- The concept that a nation has a racial identity and, if it consists of the superior race, then the Nation is superior, and should have power over racially inferior nations
- The concept that certain racially defined groups in Germany were a source of problems, and required a solution.

You know, Israel is considering a law that would officially make it a Jewish nation, even though 20% of its population is Arabic. Also, Jewish is legally recognized as an ethnicity in Israel, not only a religion. Only ethnic Jews recognized by state-sponsored officials can get married in Israel, no one else. A Jew can't marry a Christian, etc.; it's forbidden under Israeli law.

Why would Israel declare itself an explicitly Jewish country if 20% of its population is Arab? That'd be like the US calling itself a white country even though 15% of the population is black, right? So could your definition of a Nazi regime apply to Israel? :sherlock:

Would be ironic, wouldn't it?

[A Voice from the Mountains]

die-hard political partisans that happen to be republicans, zionists, some light-skinned people of European decent that say they are not racist but just want to be surrounded by the white-dominant culture that Leave It To Beaver taught them,...

According to white privilege theory, you can't complain about others living in predominantly white neighborhoods unless you yourself live primarily in a ethnic-majority neighborhood. Do you live in a primarily ethnic-majority neighborhood? Because if not, you are lending credibility to those who would claim that you are only seeking to signal your virtue to other members of your society for self-serving reasons, and without actually making any commitments to improve the lives of minorities yourself and showing that you truly believe what you say. If you aren't committing to doing the work you're preaching to others then you're hurting the cause by diminishing its credibility. Move into an ethnic community first, at least over 50% minority, and begin volunteering and helping them there in their own communities, and then you will have credibility to attack others for not doing the same, and can't be accused of virtue signaling.



and some people that heard trump say something true - such as saying to hillary, "You are a criminal!", or such as pointing out "fake news!", or such as saying he was going to expose 9/11, or that he was going to "drain the swamp", or that he was going to "MAGA", which is sweet nectar to anyone who has watched as US manufacturing corporations moved to where the slaves work cheaper and no one bothers you about releasing massive toxins.

And those countries you are referring to, of which China, Vietnam, and Mexico are prominent examples, are all far-left/communist, and as you correctly point out, have much, much worse working environments. People work hard for virtually nothing in these systems, and effectively are slaves, just like you say. I think it's important to remember this context, when we are comparing where companies are moving out of, and into, because it helps explain these movements.

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

Hatred and fear are strong, deep, primal emotions. The degree of social manipulation and control of these emotions via technology is unprecedented. People are caught up in highly emotional conflict over blatantly contrived situations- put forth and stoked by a real time flow of Big Data. We continue to add listening devices into our lives at an alarming rate, AI that gets smarter. Emotionally loaded words like "Nazi",or "racist" are now used with the vehemence formally reserved for racial epithets or gender slurs. This is calculated to shut down rational thought by triggering powerful emotion. Our addiction to technology feeds nicely into our addiction to pure "feeling" - be it hatred, rage or fear. It is helpful to step back from the labels and the conflicts we are herded towards and remember to observe rather than react.