Help with debilitating insomnia

[angelfire]

I have always been a poor sleeper but over the past few years chronic lack of sleep has really begun to dominate my life. Fortunately I'm retired but even so I frequently turn down events which would entail an early rise and, to be honest I'm so sick of feeling exhausted most of the time. I suffered a minor heart attack five years ago and am now acutely aware that lack of sleep is negatively affecting my physical health. I don't know if the problem originated in childhood or a previous life and sometimes I wonder if I may be under some kind of psychic attack.
I've tried everything: herbs, supplements, homeopathy. Some things work but only for short periods of time and I'm very loathe to go down the route of sleeping pills. In short, I want my life back!
If anyone thinks they may be able to help get to the source of the problem, I would be so grateful and thankful for any advice or healing.

With blessings. X

[Bill Ryan]

Have you tried melatonin? 3mg tabs (harmless, non-pharma) really can help.

It's an over-the-counter thing from pharmacies and also from health food and supplement outlets. Places like Boots the Chemist will certainly have it, and lots of other shops too.

We all produce melatonin naturally to help us sleep, so this is really merely a supplement. And it works extremely well for many people who'd never touch a sleeping pill no matter what they were paid. :)

To build on that, Knockout (from the Infowars Store in the US) has 3mg melatonin, plus a bunch of other natural sleep aids as well. I've never used it, and don't know anyone who has, but looking at the ingredients it really might be worth a try if there's a way to get it shipped to you.



https://infowarsstore.com/knockout-sleep-support.html

***



https://media.infowarsstore.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1200x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/k/n/knockout_label.jpg

[angelfire]

Thanks, Bill, your info is much appreciated but unfortunately melatonin is illegal (!) in the UK. The other thing is I've heard it's hard to get the dosage right on an individual level....? However I'll have a look at the Infowars site.
And, I've just remembered - I did order some from Mercola a few years ago which didn't really help but then again, maybe the dosage was wrong for me.

[Cardinal]

If you can, get your thyroid checked. If it is not functioning properly, this will cause insomnia and other symptoms. It is unfortunate that Melatonin is illegal in the Uk. I use 10 mg to help me drift off to sleep.

[Bill Ryan]

Thanks, Bill, your info is much appreciated but unfortunately melatonin is illegal (!) in the UK. The other thing is I've heard it's hard to get the dosage right on an individual level....? However I'll have a look at the Infowars site.
And, I've just remembered - I did order some from Mercola a few years ago which didn't really help but then again, maybe the dosage was wrong for me.

3mg should really be enough. But I never knew it was illegal in the UK! (Wow.) As best I know, it's 100% totally safe and natural.

Where I am in Ecuador it's an over-the-counter thing, as it is in the US. I imagine you can easily get it shipped from the US... if you've not tried it for quite a while, then I'd suggest you really might do that. There surely has to be absolutely nothing to lose apart from a few £s.

[Omni]

Cannabis (an indica - preferrably purple kush or related to purple kush) really has helped my insomnia.

[angelfire]

Cannabis (an indica - preferrably purple kush or related to purple kush) really has helped my insomnia.

Cannabis, of any description, leaves me more than usually wide awake! Thanks for the suggestion though.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Thanks, Bill, your info is much appreciated but unfortunately melatonin is illegal (!) in the UK. The other thing is I've heard it's hard to get the dosage right on an individual level....? However I'll have a look at the Infowars site.
And, I've just remembered - I did order some from Mercola a few years ago which didn't really help but then again, maybe the dosage was wrong for me.

3mg should really be enough. But I never knew it was illegal in the UK! (Wow.) As best I know, it's 100% totally safe and natural.

Where I am in Ecuador it's an over-the-counter thing, as it is in the US. I imagine you can easily get it shipped from the US... if you've not tried it for quite a while, then I'd suggest you really might do that. There surely has to be absolutely nothing to lose apart from a few £s.

Yes, it is unbelievable that something so harmless can't be purchased here. However, I've bitten the bullet and ordered Infowar's Knockout sleep supplement. Will keep you posted, if I'm awake........

[ThePythonicCow]

On the fortunately now rare occasions when I want to get to sleep at a particular time, I swear by Steve Gibson's "Healthy Sleep Formula": https://www.grc.com/health/sleep/healthy_sleep_formula.htm

[Daozen]

Iodine knocks me out like a light, without fail. Magnesium is good for nerves. Both of those help the heart. Teas like Chamomile and mint can help. If you're not overweight, a heavy carb meal can make someone sleepy. Oats may help.

Imee Ooi is good for any perceived psychic attacks:

HQo5hm12G1U

[Helene West]

Angelfire,
since you already had a close call (heart attack) could you be associating losing consciousness (falling asleep) with dying?
If you're lucky enough to get a good counselor it may only take a few sessions to help bring something like unfinished emotional business you have with someone (or yourself for that matter) to the surface. just a thought...

[Spiral]

Valarian root is quite good, as long as you don't go bonkers with it.

https://draxe.com/valerian-root/

These people used to hold that type of thing in stock http://www.sorcerers-apprentice.co.uk/homepage.htm

[Valerie Villars]

I cannot believe melatonin is illegal in the U.K. I take it one or two times a week and it works beautifully. Bill's post about our bodies naturally producing it are spot on. It IS safe and natural.

Spiral's suggestion about Valerian is also good (though I prefer Melatonin) but I did find very vivid dreams with it and would have a bit of a drugged effect the morning after. But, everyone's needs and chemistry are different.

[Bob]

Hi AngelFire - when I read this, what I sense is a situation called "sleep apnea", meaning one is stopping breathing during sleep periods, and then when CO2 builds up too much, one jerks awake, getting absolutely "fitful" sleep...

I would ask, have you ever been under surgery? There are anesthetics which are given in hospitals to suppress normal breathing, and those substances actually damage the normal response center in the brain which controls regular sleep, diaphragm response (raising and lowering the chest)... The doctor's solution (which I think is horrendous that they don't tell people that the surgery anesthetics permanently caused brain damage) is to use a CPAP machine, making u look like an elephant forever tied to a positive pressure breather..

One can get a sleep apnea test done where one's oxygen levels are checked. A deviated septum (in the back of the nose) is also a rather common situation, where breathing is blocked temporarily when the airway closes..

There is of all things something designed to handle snoring, which moves the LOWER JAW out front of the top teeth.. When that happens the airway is opened up moreso during sleep. It works wonders..

Just my thoughts based on what I understand in the 'medical field' and some personal experience.

*PS -- Helene West makes some good comments..

And PPS - taking substances to suppress or relax breathing isn't the correct solution if the situation is "stopping of normal breathing" (sleep apnea).. You don't need to get more foggy when u are needing more oxygen..


HERE are a few technical references which backs up my observations of the description of classic Sleep Apnea -


https://www.neurokc.com/general-article/insomnia-may-be-more-of-a-breathing-disorder-than-previously-thought/ - it is not solved with taking "sleep aids", it is solved by getting more oxygen...

https://www.resmed.com/us/en/blog/diagnosis-and-treatment/insomnia-and-sleep-apnea-making-the-connection.html

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/265592.php

http://anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org/article.aspx?articleid=2555983 - anesthesia KILLS brain cells


(summary - find out if your oxygen levels during sleeping are correct. If they are not, find the reason why.. if one is having sleeping problems, such as falling asleep then waking up, then trying to fall asleep, then getting a few minutes then waking up with some "panic" feelings, that is a sure indication of breathing cessation, and excess CO2 buildup.. Don't medicate then cause you want to breathe fully and regularly not slow down your breathing..)

[sunwings]

After this life I am coming back to do it all again. All the regrets, f*ck ups, pain and stress they sometimes keep me awake at night, only go away when I surrender and accept, that I am coming back to do this all again. So go to sleep brother/sister, get your rest, the sun has not set for you yet, still work to be done.

[Noelle]

Though I know there is still not enough research on the effects of Wifi or EMFs, I would suggest unplugging the modem at night. Also, if you have a smartphone, keep it out of your bedroom at night. It does no harm to test it.

How is the lighting in your bedroom? Too much light might make it hard to sleep. If there are light sources that you have no control of, you can buy a sleeping mask.

[onawah]

I've had problems with insomnia for years, but I've found a few things that have helped, though they've changed over time.
Currently, taking 1000 mgs of Tryptophan an hour before bed helps me to relax enough to drift off, providing I spend that hour quietly in bed reading, with no electrical devices nearby or turned on (especially true for wi-fi, mobile phones, even alarm clocks).
Sometimes just a good cup of hot chocolate will do the trick.
It used to be that homeopathic remedies worked incredibly well, but it can be difficult to find just the right one.
If I'm not getting enough exercise during the day, it will generally be harder to get to sleep, so that has always been a factor.
Unless I've been so active that I am in pain, then something to relieve the pain will be in order.

[GMB1961]

Dear Angelfire, have you tried Sound Therapy? An hour session with Crystal Singing Bowls, Tibetan Singing Bowls, 128 hz, 1361.hz and 64 hz tuning forks placed on and around your body have helped people that I have seen with sleep disorders. Its also a natural modality that doesn't require taking tablets that can mess around with your digestion. I hope you get some rest friend. Faithfully Glenn.

[Justplain]

A cure for insomnia suggested by my wife is warm milk and honey. Another suggestion is a small glass of wine. Valeriana and chamomile are also helpful, as suggested above.

[Canonman]

I have always been a poor sleeper but over the past few years chronic lack of sleep has really begun to dominate my life. Fortunately I'm retired but even so I frequently turn down events which would entail an early rise and, to be honest I'm so sick of feeling exhausted most of the time. I suffered a minor heart attack five years ago and am now acutely aware that lack of sleep is negatively affecting my physical health. I don't know if the problem originated in childhood or a previous life and sometimes I wonder if I may be under some kind of psychic attack.
I've tried everything: herbs, supplements, homeopathy. Some things work but only for short periods of time and I'm very loathe to go down the route of sleeping pills. In short, I want my life back!
If anyone thinks they may be able to help get to the source of the problem, I would be so grateful and thankful for any advice or healing.

With blessings. X

Suffering for over twenty five years from chronic insomnia, I can simply state that there's no real remedy for this, unfortunately. If you don't respond to natural supplements and herbs, you may have to resort to harsh medications, like ambien or lunesta. I tried just about everything conceivable, nothing helps, and some over the counter sleeping aids based on antihistamine, make things even worse. I tried melatonin several times, it never helped, but made me even more drowsy the next day. Strenuous workout does help a lot ( I often run or cycle), but I still have to keep a stash of ambien, to have something to reach for, when I know I have to get up early in the morning. I also had the prescription for lunesta more than a decade ago, and worked for the most, but I found the ambien CR far more reliable (in my case). Avoid any amount of alcohol, as well as coffee or any caffeinated beverages any later, than morning hours. If you opt for either sleep medications I just mentioned, make sure you take them on empty stomach. This can be very inconvenient, because one needs to coordinate meal time with the medication. If dinner time is just an hour before bedtime, likely you still will have a full stomach when you take the pill, and the effects expected, will be delayed for at least two hours, or longer (happened to me many times). It is a very debilitating curse, and once you suffer from it, it will likely follow you for the rest of your life. Side effects from the medication can vary individually, mine is fatigue towards the later part of the day, late afternoons, early evenings. At times that fatigue can be severe, and may require a short nap to ensure you won't fall asleep behind the wheel for instance, if you drive a vehicle the next day. Wish I could offer something more helpful, but try exercising if you can, like jogging (any pace you can sustain) for an extended period daily, to get your joints tired out. That will signal your brain to shut you down at night. All the best!

[TraineeHuman]

Also, you could try natural sources of tryptophan in the evening, e.g. bananas, cashews, valerian and certain other teas.

[onawah]

Earplugs and a sleep mask can also help, and a fan nearby if the white noise is soothing to you,

[Omni]

Cannabis (an indica - preferrably purple kush or related to purple kush) really has helped my insomnia.
Cannabis, of any description, leaves me more than usually wide awake! Thanks for the suggestion though.

Does that include CBD?

[Scorpio Girl]

I to have suffered from insomnia for years probably due to the fact of staying up late like a naughty girl. But none of those herbal/natural supplements worked for me including Melatonin. But as I am going through a good period of sleep at the moment fingers crossed I am using 5HTP and that seems to be working for me for now. Trytophan I heard is the best but unfortunately you would be hard pressed to get it prescribed by a doctor here (what a surprise!). Also Melatonin has to be subscribed by a doctor here as well, a very expensive exercise if it doesn't work for you.

If you are really desperate a sleeping pill could help you get a little bit rest for a short period of time. Exercise seems to be the best option as well. Good luck....

[angelfire]

I tried that too, Omni but it only worked for a night or two.

[angelfire]

If you can, get your thyroid checked. If it is not functioning properly, this will cause insomnia and other symptoms. It is unfortunate that Melatonin is illegal in the Uk. I use 10 mg to help me drift off to sleep.

Thanks, Cardinal. I did have my thyroid checked a number of years ago and the results were normal. However, i also know that these tests are notoriously unreliable. I believe there is a more reliable test but they dont like using it in the UK as it's expensive.

[Debra]

Before I make any suggestions, angelfire, have you had your cortisol levels checked out?

[angelfire]

Before I make any suggestions, angelfire, have you had your cortisol levels checked out?

Hi Debra,

No, that's something that has never occurred to me.

[Unicorn]

You can try ashwagandha in the evenings, some hours before bed-time. Its scientific name is "Withania somnifera" for some reason... It really helps with sleep related problems, but also it is very beneficial for your body in general. I buy Himalaya brand from i-herb myself.
Hoping this is helpful to you.:heart: Please keep us informed.

[Unicorn]

In addition:

I am a shiatsu practitioner. You can massage this point indicated in the picture below. It does wonders with insomnia and heart related problems. It is a very important point in acupuncture, but it also gets good results with massage and digital pressure.

http://pa-om.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/ht-7-300x225.jpg


The name of this point is Shen Men or “Spirit Gate” and is specifically indicated for insomnia. It is also indicated for irritability, palpitations, mania, and dementia, among other things. The point is located on the pinky side of the wrist crease, on the inside of the ligament that attaches the hand to the arm. Gates have a special importance in Chinese medicine and when gates that should be open are closed, or vice versa, energy is either not flowing correctly or not contained correctly. By opening or closing these gates, the body is brought back in to balance. And when a gate is associated with the spirit, things like sleep can be affected.

[angelfire]

In addition:

I am a shiatsu practitioner. You can massage this point indicated in the picture below. It does wonders with insomnia and heart related problems. It is a very important point in acupuncture, but it also gets good results with massage and digital pressure.

http://pa-om.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/ht-7-300x225.jpg


The name of this point is Shen Men or “Spirit Gate” and is specifically indicated for insomnia. It is also indicated for irritability, palpitations, mania, and dementia, among other things. The point is located on the pinky side of the wrist crease, on the inside of the ligament that attaches the hand to the arm. Gates have a special importance in Chinese medicine and when gates that should be open are closed, or vice versa, energy is either not flowing correctly or not contained correctly. By opening or closing these gates, the body is brought back in to balance. And when a gate is associated with the spirit, things like sleep can be affected.

Many thanks, Unicorn, I will massage this point. I am considering Ashwagandha although I wonder if it's too stimulating for a Vatta type who is very sensitive?

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I get insomnia too, a lot. I take nothing for it, so I'm sorry I can't offer any original suggestions. If I can't sleep I simply get up, make a cup of tea, and then watch TV for an hour (something thoughtful, like a documentary), then go back to bed and try again. All the best!

(as a side note I'd advise against sleeping pills, for so many reasons, which you seem to already agree with). :happythumbsup:

[Chanie]

In the case of an overactive mind that won’t shut off—too much chatter or worry going on in the head—I find the following mental exercise useful:

Picture an empty hut. The location can be on a tropical island or in the cold north. Anywhere, really. Then, think about what you would need to survive. Start making a mental list in your head. Don’t worry about the actual survival part, but rather on the items you’d want to have with you. Be sure to have some fun with it—what books would you want on your shelves? what comfort foods?

This exercise began organically for me when I was a child. At the age of nine, I read a book about a pilot and a young woman whose plane went down in the Yukon. They survived for weeks on the few supplies that they had and were eventually rescued. It left a strong impression with me and at night, I began mulling over what I would want to have with me in a similar situation, but would fall asleep before I got my hut furnished. Fifty years later, I’m still working on it!

I suspect it’s similar to counting sheep—that it’s difficult to worry while counting/listing something. It also shifts one’s attention away from the fact the one isn’t sleeping, if that makes sense?

[Unicorn]

I am considering Ashwagandha although I wonder if it's too stimulating for a Vatta type who is very sensitive?

As far as I know, ashwagandha has a good action alone or combined with other herbs, depending on your dosha, but it seems particularly effective for vata type. For instance, I quote from https://chopra.com/articles/calming-herbs-to-balance-your-vata-dosha:

Ashwagandha is particularly beneficial for Vata types as it calms the nervous system and helps focus the mind. It is frequently prescribed for people who complain of fatigue, have difficulty concentrating, or feel “ungrounded”—all symptoms of Vata imbalance.

Only pitta (my dominant type) has to take it very moderately, if combined with other ayurvedic herbs.

Hoping this helps!

[Laurel]

You may want to try using a programmable LED lamp in your bedroom with a color temperature range of 2400K (or lower) - 6500K. You can program the lamp to automatically turn on in the evening at 2400K, turn off at your bedtime, and turn back on in the morning at 6500K to wake you up.

This will help assist your circadian rhythm and has become extremely popular in nursing homes and hospitals. It's definitely worth a try.

There are a lot of different manufacturers out there. Here's one example that has a 2000K - 6500K color temperature range:

https://us.sengled.com/products/element-color-plus-kit

[Cardinal]

If you can, get your thyroid checked. If it is not functioning properly, this will cause insomnia and other symptoms. It is unfortunate that Melatonin is illegal in the Uk. I use 10 mg to help me drift off to sleep.

Thanks, Cardinal. I did have my thyroid checked a number of years ago and the results were normal. However, i also know that these tests are notoriously unreliable. I believe there is a more reliable test but they dont like using it in the UK as it's expensive.

This is true, it is very difficult in the US now to find a Doctor who truly understands thyroid issues and how to properly treat them. A friend of mine went to a very expensive endocrinologist and he was able to help her with all of her issues. I am on thyroid medication as well as bio identical hormones, and they help tremendously but I still have to take melatonin (which decreases with age in your body) to get to sleep.
I hope and pray you find a remedy soon.

[angelfire]

I am considering Ashwagandha although I wonder if it's too stimulating for a Vatta type who is very sensitive?

As far as I know, ashwagandha has a good action alone or combined with other herbs, depending on your dosha, but it seems particularly effective for vata type. For instance, I quote from https://chopra.com/articles/calming-herbs-to-balance-your-vata-dosha:

Ashwagandha is particularly beneficial for Vata types as it calms the nervous system and helps focus the mind. It is frequently prescribed for people who complain of fatigue, have difficulty concentrating, or feel “ungrounded”—all symptoms of Vata imbalance.

Only pitta (my dominant type) has to take it very moderately, if combined with other ayurvedic herbs.

Hoping this helps!

This helps a lot, Unicorn and I will try it especially as at night I often feel very ungrounded.
Many thanks.

[angelfire]

Bless all of you who have responded to my post. There's a lot here to think about and I'm feeling hopeful now of finding something which will help.
Xx

[angelfire]

Angelfire,
since you already had a close call (heart attack) could you be associating losing consciousness (falling asleep) with dying?
If you're lucky enough to get a good counselor it may only take a few sessions to help bring something like unfinished emotional business you have with someone (or yourself for that matter) to the surface. just a thought...

Thanks, Helene. I'm pretty sure that my heart broke after I sold my family home six years ago and homeopathy helped a lot with the ensuing emotional fallout. Interestingly, I discovered through a system called New German Medicine that heart attacks in post menopausal women are often related to loss of territory. That rang a strong chord!

[angelfire]

Hi Bob, thanks for this advice. I will consider getting oxygen levels checked.
I used to suffer from sleep apnea, especially when trying to have a daytime nap- that became impossible as I did feel that I would suffocate if I fell asleep. However, after cutting gluten out of diet the problem more or less disappeared and my ease of breathing was much improved.

¤=[Post Update]=¤




If you can, get your thyroid checked. If it is not functioning properly, this will cause insomnia and other symptoms. It is unfortunate that Melatonin is illegal in the Uk. I use 10 mg to help me drift off to sleep.

Thanks, Cardinal. I did have my thyroid checked a number of years ago and the results were normal. However, i also know that these tests are notoriously unreliable. I believe there is a more reliable test but they dont like using it in the UK as it's expensive.

This is true, it is very difficult in the US now to find a Doctor who truly understands thyroid issues and how to properly treat them. A friend of mine went to a very expensive endocrinologist and he was able to help her with all of her issues. I am on thyroid medication as well as bio identical hormones, and they help tremendously but I still have to take melatonin (which decreases with age in your body) to get to sleep.
I hope and pray you find a remedy soon.

Bless you, Cardinal, I hope so too.

[angelfire]

Hi AngelFire - when I read this, what I sense is a situation called "sleep apnea", meaning one is stopping breathing during sleep periods, and then when CO2 builds up too much, one jerks awake, getting absolutely "fitful" sleep...

I would ask, have you ever been under surgery? There are anesthetics which are given in hospitals to suppress normal breathing, and those substances actually damage the normal response center in the brain which controls regular sleep, diaphragm response (raising and lowering the chest)... The doctor's solution (which I think is horrendous that they don't tell people that the surgery anesthetics permanently caused brain damage) is to use a CPAP machine, making u look like an elephant forever tied to a positive pressure breather..

One can get a sleep apnea test done where one's oxygen levels are checked. A deviated septum (in the back of the nose) is also a rather common situation, where breathing is blocked temporarily when the airway closes..

There is of all things something designed to handle snoring, which moves the LOWER JAW out front of the top teeth.. When that happens the airway is opened up moreso during sleep. It works wonders..

Just my thoughts based on what I understand in the 'medical field' and some personal experience.

*PS -- Helene West makes some good comments..

And PPS - taking substances to suppress or relax breathing isn't the correct solution if the situation is "stopping of normal breathing" (sleep apnea).. You don't need to get more foggy when u are needing more oxygen..


HERE are a few technical references which backs up my observations of the description of classic Sleep Apnea -


https://www.neurokc.com/general-article/insomnia-may-be-more-of-a-breathing-disorder-than-previously-thought/ - it is not solved with taking "sleep aids", it is solved by getting more oxygen...

https://www.resmed.com/us/en/blog/diagnosis-and-treatment/insomnia-and-sleep-apnea-making-the-connection.html

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/265592.php

http://anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org/article.aspx?articleid=2555983 - anesthesia KILLS brain cells


(summary - find out if your oxygen levels during sleeping are correct. If they are not, find the reason why.. if one is having sleeping problems, such as falling asleep then waking up, then trying to fall asleep, then getting a few minutes then waking up with some "panic" feelings, that is a sure indication of breathing cessation, and excess CO2 buildup.. Don't medicate then cause you want to breathe fully and regularly not slow down your breathing..)

Many thanks, Bob, this all sounds like very good advice although cutting out gluten has helped sleep apnea which I was suffering from, especially when trying to have a daytime nap.

[Bob]

Hi AngelFire - OK.. then it's Sleep Apnea.. I don't think you want to use sleep inducers with airway obstruction. Still best thing is to see what your awake and sleeping oxygen levels are.. That will let you know about lung function, possibly one can see what happens allergy-wise with having some gluten consumed possibly hidden in foods.. (or other allergy causing components)..

That you mention Gluten being an issue is understood as one of those triggering items.. I can induce sleep apnea here with me with overdoing it on late night cheese/nachos (chock full of gluten) and I suffer fitfully with snoring.. I can solve it with a proper anti-histamine and bronchial dilator.. pain in the butt for having pigged out late nite on junkfoods..


I mentioned also a mouth appliance which moves the lower jaw forward:
https://www.sleep-apnea-guide.com/mandibular-advancement-device.html - - ( http://www.dentalartslab.com/products-services/snoringsleep-apnea-appliances/tap3/ )

This is a picture of one of those appliances, which holds the lower jaw infront of the upper...

One can try moving your lower jaw forward, while lying down, on one's favorite pillow, and see if moving the lower jaw forward (by yourself) has you breathing better and actually feeling better after a few minutes... (it helps me when I am feeling congested)..

https://www.sleep-apnea-guide.com/images/somnodent.jpg.pagespeed.ce.N9NFKe_mJg.jpg


There are other things to check as the other members have mentioned, my gut feeling based on experience (and your feedback) still is sleep apnea.. What induced it originally should be addressed..

Some say a lower jaw appliance is much better than being tethered to a CPAP machine..

[onawah]

You might be helped by Royal Peruvian Maca, especially if your problems are glandular related.
See: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90334-My-Nerves-Are-Shot.-Now-what&p=1065843&viewfull=1#post1065843
and
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63958-I-am-an-alien-can-t-take-it-any-more-I-am-taking-Amphetamine&p=739273&viewfull=1#post739273

[Franny]

I really feel for all of my fellow insomniacs; few people realize how debilitating it can be when your day is defined by how tired to exhausted you are - and it's every day for years and decades. It causes many health issues from cardio-vascular problems, to diabetes, brain damage, depression and more.

I've tried almost everything applicable posted above with 2 exceptions: Iodine/magnesium and mag/melatonin/oleamide combo. Some work for a short time but nothing works well. So, something else to try, thank you!

I hope all insomniacs can find some help here.

[onawah]

Good article here today from Dr. Mercola:
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2018/07/05/nutrients-supplements-that-can-improve-sleep-quality.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20180705Z1_UCM&et_cid=DM218923&et_rid=355500842

[angelfire]

Hi AngelFire - OK.. then it's Sleep Apnea.. I don't think you want to use sleep inducers with airway obstruction. Still best thing is to see what your awake and sleeping oxygen levels are.. That will let you know about lung function, possibly one can see what happens allergy-wise with having some gluten consumed possibly hidden in foods.. (or other allergy causing components)..

That you mention Gluten being an issue is understood as one of those triggering items.. I can induce sleep apnea here with me with overdoing it on late night cheese/nachos (chock full of gluten) and I suffer fitfully with snoring.. I can solve it with a proper anti-histamine and bronchial dilator.. pain in the butt for having pigged out late nite on junkfoods..


I mentioned also a mouth appliance which moves the lower jaw forward:
https://www.sleep-apnea-guide.com/mandibular-advancement-device.html - - ( http://www.dentalartslab.com/products-services/snoringsleep-apnea-appliances/tap3/ )

This is a picture of one of those appliances, which holds the lower jaw infront of the upper...

One can try moving your lower jaw forward, while lying down, on one's favorite pillow, and see if moving the lower jaw forward (by yourself) has you breathing better and actually feeling better after a few minutes... (it helps me when I am feeling congested)..

https://www.sleep-apnea-guide.com/images/somnodent.jpg.pagespeed.ce.N9NFKe_mJg.jpg


There are other things to check as the other members have mentioned, my gut feeling based on experience (and your feedback) still is sleep apnea.. What induced it originally should be addressed..

Some say a lower jaw appliance is much better than being tethered to a CPAP machine..


After another really bad night when I think I could have slept, I think you're right Bob. It was very hard for me to breathe and I was scared to fall asleep because of that. I ended up with four pillows which helped slightly but today I am wiped out, feeling weak and very down.
I was diagnosed by a kinesiologist and herbalist as having a salycylate intolerance a few years ago and it may be that the curry I had last night contained spices that kicked off a reaction as I hadn't had any gluten yesterday.
I really feel my heart is becoming weaker because of the insomnia and it's hard to stay positive at the moment. I will look into ordering the jaw appliance.

[angelfire]

Good article here today from Dr. Mercola:
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2018/07/05/nutrients-supplements-that-can-improve-sleep-quality.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20180705Z1_UCM&et_cid=DM218923&et_rid=355500842

Thank you, onawah,, there's a wealth of good advice in that article.

[dynamo]

It helps me to leave exhaust fans on at night and the furnace fan running constantly.
This brings in fresh air and gets rid of the carbon dioxide buildup (esp. when there are several family members in sleeping areas).
Otherwise, I wake up from the "stuffy feeling" from lack of oxygen.
Also, I do not use any electronics for a few hours before bed, preferring to read a book.
As others have mentioned, herbs such as chamomile tea with lemon and honey, along with turning off any wifi devices, provides a better sleep environment.

[angelfire]

I really feel for all of my fellow insomniacs; few people realize how debilitating it can be when your day is defined by how tired to exhausted you are - and it's every day for years and decades. It causes many health issues from cardio-vascular problems, to diabetes, brain damage, depression and more.

I've tried almost everything applicable posted above with 2 exceptions: Iodine/magnesium and mag/melatonin/oleamide combo. Some work for a short time but nothing works well. So, something else to try, thank you!

I hope all insomniacs can find some help here.

I really hope so too, latte it's such a huge problem for so many people.

[Bob]

Hi AngelFire - O2 (Oxygen levels) - if you could schedule a test for resting (awake) and asleep that should be a good indication.

There are personal monitors, and I note when I'm feeling "winded" that I'll take a look at my pulse and oxygen level with this type of monitor (mine is an older version without the graph):

https://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mgdFXlUUdba2_Fralf9pK4A.jpg
https://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/pulse-oximeter

Granted you can't look at it while asleep, but if you have a friend who could while you are sleeping, that may help at least with peace of mind.

Without getting into medical stuff, but just asking some questions to possibly help you ask your practitioner some questions: Have you had your blood pressure checked (and pulse rate), for resting and with exercise, and looked at both the left and right sides of the body for the measurement of blood pressure. Normals vary for age and weight... So of course one would need to know what the ideal weight is for your age. Another test is called "cardiac sufficiency" to verify that one is pumping adequate blood.. So the tests basically start from the easiest (oxygen levels) and pulse and blood pressure and progress further.

An earlier post by a member mentions the thyroid levels. I've not had thyroid issues with me, but I have seen a person with out-of-range thyroid (hypo or low) need to use a CPAP because of the sleep apnea. With oxygen supplementation and positive air pressure that seems to help with getting thyroid levels correct..

Being a holiday here in the States, I just absolutely HAD to over-do it with party food, and of course 3 hours later (at bedtime) I paid the price again, needing 3 pillows, and finally I had to pull out a decongestant and something to thin mucous (never overeat before bedtime and most certainly keep the beer at bay long before bedtime :) ) - I am pretty certain there is something in the party foods that are affecting me like with a food allergy, which can exacerbate sleep apnea issues..

There are proper diets (and foods to avoid) that one can look at to help deal with sleep apnea too - https://www.livestrong.com/article/364229-foods-that-make-sleep-apnea-worse/

So things like mucous build-up, or puffiness in the nasal area/throat or even acid reflux (where something like heartburn feelings appear), can induce upper airway inflammation.. (Burping up a little bit of stomach acid and then getting some of that, all it takes is a drop or two, into the windpipe, and one gets irritation that the body wants to flood out of the way, and of course one's sleep gets disrupted trying to cough)..

Step 1, check the O2 levels and then go thru the list

hugs, I know the feeling..

[onawah]

If you google "Dr. Mercola, insomnia" a lot of good articles will come up. It's a subject he has devoted a lot of attention to.

Good article here today from Dr. Mercola:
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2018/07/05/nutrients-supplements-that-can-improve-sleep-quality.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20180705Z1_UCM&et_cid=DM218923&et_rid=355500842

Thank you, onawah,, there's a wealth of good advice in that article.

[Alpha141]

See entering sleep as a change in states of being. And, requires quite a bit of energy in the body to do so. The inability to actually sleep can be an absence of the vitality to do so.

Here is a great time. If you have a bath (many don't have one these days). Have one with a cup of epson salts and a cup of crystaline salt (such as Himalaya). Epson Salts have magnesium that aids in relaxation. But, this aids the energy field and body repair. It works on the unseen level. Don't just do it once and thing because you don't get results its doing nothing. Get ritual, ceremonial and routine. Be proactive. If you don't have a bath, get a wide bucket and foot baths help too.

Most importantly, look to clear out the intestine. We store our emotional shadow (cr@p) for a reason. Colonics, herbal laxatives, fasting etc depending on where you are at will aid you in that altering from awake to dreamtime. Our dreaming body resided in the dantian or Solar Plexus (ie Colon, lower intestine area). If it has to fight through the 'stuff' unprocessed it can add to the volume of energy to change states. It could indicate parasite or candita issues also.

I personally am proactive on these things. I take 10mg melatonin tablets myself also. They are out there. I feel incredible from them. That is my own experience. I like my sleep time to be what i call 'Operation Log Maximus' lol ;)

Best of luck

[angelfire]

Hi AngelFire - O2 (Oxygen levels) - if you could schedule a test for resting (awake) and asleep that should be a good indication.

There are personal monitors, and I note when I'm feeling "winded" that I'll take a look at my pulse and oxygen level with this type of monitor (mine is an older version without the graph):

https://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mgdFXlUUdba2_Fralf9pK4A.jpg
https://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/pulse-oximeter

Granted you can't look at it while asleep, but if you have a friend who could while you are sleeping, that may help at least with peace of mind.

Without getting into medical stuff, but just asking some questions to possibly help you ask your practitioner some questions: Have you had your blood pressure checked (and pulse rate), for resting and with exercise, and looked at both the left and right sides of the body for the measurement of blood pressure. Normals vary for age and weight... So of course one would need to know what the ideal weight is for your age. Another test is called "cardiac sufficiency" to verify that one is pumping adequate blood.. So the tests basically start from the easiest (oxygen levels) and pulse and blood pressure and progress further.

An earlier post by a member mentions the thyroid levels. I've not had thyroid issues with me, but I have seen a person with out-of-range thyroid (hypo or low) need to use a CPAP because of the sleep apnea. With oxygen supplementation and positive air pressure that seems to help with getting thyroid levels correct..

Being a holiday here in the States, I just absolutely HAD to over-do it with party food, and of course 3 hours later (at bedtime) I paid the price again, needing 3 pillows, and finally I had to pull out a decongestant and something to thin mucous (never overeat before bedtime and most certainly keep the beer at bay long before bedtime :) ) - I am pretty certain there is something in the party foods that are affecting me like with a food allergy, which can exacerbate sleep apnea issues..

There are proper diets (and foods to avoid) that one can look at to help deal with sleep apnea too - https://www.livestrong.com/article/364229-foods-that-make-sleep-apnea-worse/

So things like mucous build-up, or puffiness in the nasal area/throat or even acid reflux (where something like heartburn feelings appear), can induce upper airway inflammation.. (Burping up a little bit of stomach acid and then getting some of that, all it takes is a drop or two, into the windpipe, and one gets irritation that the body wants to flood out of the way, and of course one's sleep gets disrupted trying to cough)..

Step 1, check the O2 levels and then go thru the list

hugs, I know the feeling..

Many thanks again, Bob, it really helps when someone understands the fallout from insomnia.
I will ask for an oxygen sleeping test though my doctor isn't too receptive to my requests as she doesn't like the fact that I weaned myself off the heart meds and won't take a statin (!!). When in Germany a couple of years ago I did have the full right/left blood pressure test and it was fine. Don't know if they do that in UK what with the struggling NHS, but I will ask.
Coincidentally last night life presented me with an opportunity to learn Pranayama breathing from a friend who's quite an expert now and I'm going to pursue that too.
I will let you know how I get on with all of this.

Blessings to you.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


See entering sleep as a change in states of being. And, requires quite a bit of energy in the body to do so. The inability to actually sleep can be an absence of the vitality to do so.

Here is a great time. If you have a bath (many don't have one these days). Have one with a cup of epson salts and a cup of crystaline salt (such as Himalaya). Epson Salts have magnesium that aids in relaxation. But, this aids the energy field and body repair. It works on the unseen level. Don't just do it once and thing because you don't get results its doing nothing. Get ritual, ceremonial and routine. Be proactive. If you don't have a bath, get a wide bucket and foot baths help too.

Most importantly, look to clear out the intestine. We store our emotional shadow (cr@p) for a reason. Colonics, herbal laxatives, fasting etc depending on where you are at will aid you in that altering from awake to dreamtime. Our dreaming body resided in the dantian or Solar Plexus (ie Colon, lower intestine area). If it has to fight through the 'stuff' unprocessed it can add to the volume of energy to change states. It could indicate parasite or candita issues also.

I personally am proactive on these things. I take 10mg melatonin tablets myself also. They are out there. I feel incredible from them. That is my own experience. I like my sleep time to be what i call 'Operation Log Maximus' lol ;)

Best of luck

I had forgotten about Epsom salts/salt baths so thanks for the reminder, Alpha and I do understand the importance of energetic clearing.

[Trisher]

To help with breathing I have found that an ioniser helps. With all the pollution and chemtrailing there are more positive ions in the air. Placing an ioniser in your home will make it feel like a trip to the seaside or a walk in a forest.

In the article below about positive/negative ions it states..

"Positive ions or the lack of negative ions may cause serotonin hyperfunction syndrome or "irritation syndrome" involves sleeplessness, irritability, tension, migraine, nausea, heart palpitations, hot flashes with sweating or chills, tremor and dizziness. The elderly become depressed, apathetic and extremely fatigued."

Here is the full article
http://ion_effects.tripod.com/

An Ioniser I have found to be very good is sold on Amazon. The link is below.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/PureMate%C2%AE-XJ-1000-Silent-Purifier-Ioniser/dp/B00L3OZX2C/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1530872499&sr=8-3&keywords=ioniser

Trisher

[Antagenet]

There might be a chance your body wants/needs/prefers to sleep at "abnormal" times. After many decades I tried going to sleep at 9am and getting up at 3pm and I love it!

[dynamo]

There might be a chance your body wants/needs/prefers to sleep at "abnormal" times. After many decades I tried going to sleep at 9am and getting up at 3pm and I love it!
Good point, Antagenet!
Perhaps you are a "night owl" now, Angelfire?
Many people can live comfortably on a few hours sleep here and there throughout the night and day.
Of course, your lifestyle has to allow that type of schedule.

Also, are there reasons your mind races and you are having a hard time "shutting it off"?
I found that when I am under a lot of stress, I have a hard time sleeping due to my mind racing.
I don't fight it and read until I am drowsy, even if it takes hours.

So, I try to eliminate the stress in my life and to simplify my "existence".

[Gunther]

I am also a light sleeper. When I am in stress, specially with the job or the financials, I only get maybe a couple hours of good sleep a night. Wit me, when I solve those issues, sleep comes also much easier. I also meditate every day and practice yoga. If no sleep comes to me, I do those or I go for walk in the night, then I can usually sleep ok. I know this is no insomnia, but maybe something similar.

I tried alcohol before going to bed, it helps for an hour, then I wake up and can't fall asleep for hours. A bit of warm milk and honey helps. But for me, only meditation, exercise, and resolving my stressful problems helped. Now I sleep quite well, though still wake couple times in the night.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I sometimes dream I am awake and tossing and turning. Then when I do wake up from the tossing I think I have not slept at all. This happens often, maybe once or twice a week. I gauge the hours I've actually slept by how thick my fingers feel. If they feel thick then I haven't slept much.

This adds up all week and then my weekends are all about catching up on my rest. Then come Sunday night I start all over again. I loose about a night's sleep every week. That's fifty nights of no sleep a year. Sometimes I worry about that. But that is how my entire life has been. And it is a major reason I have trouble holding down a job for extended periods. I have to quit to get my sleep...

[angelfire]

I am also a light sleeper. When I am in stress, specially with the job or the financials, I only get maybe a couple hours of good sleep a night. Wit me, when I solve those issues, sleep comes also much easier. I also meditate every day and practice yoga. If no sleep comes to me, I do those or I go for walk in the night, then I can usually sleep ok. I know this is no insomnia, but maybe something similar.

I tried alcohol before going to bed, it helps for an hour, then I wake up and can't fall asleep for hours. A bit of warm milk and honey helps. But for me, only meditation, exercise, and resolving my stressful problems helped. Now I sleep quite well, though still wake couple times in the night.

Thanks, Gunther. You are right about meditation though I seem to have a huge resistance to regular practice. However, I am now signed up for a ten day Vipassana retreat in September which I'm hoping will make a difference.
Yoga I know is wonderful - I need to become more disciplined but it's hard when you're constantly tired.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I sometimes dream I am awake and tossing and turning. Then when I do wake up from the tossing I think I have not slept at all. This happens often, maybe once or twice a week. I gauge the hours I've actually slept by how thick my fingers feel. If they feel thick then I haven't slept much.

This adds up all week and then my weekends are all about catching up on my rest. Then come Sunday night I start all over again. I loose about a night's sleep every week. That's fifty nights of no sleep a year. Sometimes I worry about that. But that is how my entire life has been. And it is a major reason I have trouble holding down a job for extended periods. I have to quit to get my sleep...

My sympathies, I know exactly how you feel. Perhaps this thread will be of help to you too.

[Gunther]

Thanks, Gunther. You are right about meditation though I seem to have a huge resistance to regular practice. However, I am now signed up for a ten day Vipassana retreat in September which I'm hoping will make a difference.
Yoga I know is wonderful - I need to become more disciplined but it's hard when you're constantly tired.[COLOR="red"]


This is only my experience, but I see a lot of parallels between Meditation and Sleep. They are very similar state of mind. If you observe yourself just before fall asleep, it feels like sinking into some sort of fluid. When you relax and let go it feels like you expand a little bit outside your body and there's some sort of warm, fluid like substance that envelops you. I can even hear the sound of it flowing around me. When I go in deep meditation it is very similar, especially when lying down on my back.

My advice would be to first all get tired before going to bed, maybe go for a walk. A warm bath with dimmed lights might be good to follow. Then when you lie in bed, meditate for at least half hour. I do it by lifting one or both arms up to ensure flow of energy. You only need to lift the forearm, not the whole arm. If you can get the energy flowing and relaxing, you should be able to fall asleep more easy. At least that has been my experience as I really struggled with sleep a few times in the past.

But, if you have any stress in your life or unresolved issues, it is very important to get rid of those or to resolve them. For me that is always the main cause of sleeplessness. If you need, ask for help from people around you. Whatever it is that is bothering you, or causing stress, they are usually more than happy to help.

[Bill Ryan]

I thought this update might be interesting (and maybe really valuable) to some.


https://huffpost.com/entry/melatonin-dosage-and-risks_n_56deff8ce4b03a40567a1e1e

I'll add my experience here up front, as opposed to at the end, because it might be important for some not to miss.

The article (do read it!) concludes: A little nudge is as effective as a big push.

When I first read the article, just out of mild interest, that lodged in my mind. I occasionally take melatonin, but the only size dose available in Ecuador is 3 mg. That's actually common everywhere.

I take it very occasionally because my sleep rhythms get disrupted sometimes, I suspect because of strenuous hiking trips: so when needed, I just try to normalize things again.

But each time, melatonin leaves me groggy in the morning, and increasingly what happens is that I sleep deeply for about 4-5 hours and then wake up unable to get back to sleep again, groggy as I am. It's weird, feels unnatural, and I don't like it.

So I tried taking the "a little nudge is as effective as a big push" advice. Instead of taking all 3 mg of the tablet, I shaved off a very tiny portion with a knife... really a tiny tiny amount, just a few crumbs: I'm guessing about 200 mcg. (That's 0.2 mg, almost nothing.) And each time I did that, I slept perfectly soundly for 8 hours, with no grogginess.

To my surprise, this really worked. It was ideal. No way will I ever take more than that tiny amount again.

For anyone who's been taking large (3 mg) melatonin doses, try a far smaller amount, and see what happens.

Here's the article:

~~~

Read This If You Take Melatonin To Sleep At Night
18 March, 2016

Melatonin is a very popular (http://ausfp.com/insomnia-part-2-meet-friends/) sleep aid. It’s naturally produced in your body. You don’t need a prescription for it and can buy it in gummy form (http://www.naturemade.com/specialty/adult-gummies/melatonin-adult-gummies) or in a fruity drink (https://store.drinkneuro.com/products/neuro-sleep-mellow-mango-14-5-fl-oz-pack-of-12https://store.drinkneuro.com/products/neuro-sleep-mellow-mango-14-5-fl-oz-pack-of-12). But is it as effective and safe as we think?

Natural melatonin (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/232138.php), a hormone produced by the pineal gland, helps humans fall asleep ― and synthetic melatonin has been available as a sleep aid for nearly three decades. But the synthetic version’s effects have not been extensively studied, and since it’s classified as a “dietary supplement,” it is almost completely unregulated by the FDA.

It’s important to take a closer look at this common supplement. “Any person in the sleep world will tell you the same thing: melatonin is not harmless, is vastly overused and should not be used as a sleep aid to treat insomnia,” Michael Grandner (http://www.michaelgrandner.com/pages/about.html), a sleep researcher at the University of Arizona, told HuffPost.

How it works

Melatonin is meant to reset the body’s internal clock ― for example, it’s appropriate to use the supplement to counter the effects of jet lag (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/this-science-backed-trick-might-actually-help-you-beat-jet-lag_us_57fe6b54e4b05eff5580d9df), or help someone sleep if they have an unusual work schedule or suffer from a circadian rhythm disorder (http://www.aasmnet.org/resources/factsheets/crsd.pdf). It should not be used for general insomnia.

The proper dosage, according to a seminal2001 study from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (http://news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017), is 0.3 milligrams. The research was conducted by Richard Wurtman, who pioneered the pharmaceutical use of melatonin as a sleep aid in 1994 (http://www.nytimes.com/1994/03/01/science/hormone-pills-aid-sleep.html).Pills and supplements often sell 10 times that suggested amount in a single dose. This can lead to higher plasma melatonin levels the next day, which can cause a “hangover” effect that leaves users groggy.



“Any person in the sleep world will tell you the same thing: Melatonin is not harmless, is vastly overused and should not be used as a sleep aid to treat insomnia.”
— Michael Grandner, University of Arizona
According to a 2005 meta-analysis (http://news.mit.edu/2005/melatonin) of melatonin studies from MIT, also led by Wurtman, researchers found that the widely available high doses of melatonin are ineffective. “After a few days, it stops working,” wrote Wurtman, in a press release accompanying the study. When the brain’s melatonin receptors are exposed to too much of the hormone, they become unresponsive, he said.

Safety concerns

Melatonin may also be unsafe for children. David Kennaway, the director of the circadian physiology lab (http://www.adelaide.edu.au/robinson-research-institute/researchers/group-leaders/kennaway/) at the University of Adelaide in Australia, told Science Daily (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150225094107.htm) that the use of melatonin to treat children’s sleep disorders is “rather alarming.”

He said there is “extensive evidence from laboratory studies that melatonin causes changes in multiple physiological systems, including cardiovascular, immune and metabolic systems, as well as reproduction in animals,” and its effects on children’s developing bodies is yet unstudied.

“The word ‘safe’ is used very freely and loosely with this drug,” said Kennaway, “but there have been no rigorous, long-term safety studies of the use of melatonin to treat sleep disorders in children and adolescents.”

Even for adults, the unregulated nature of the supplement gives cause for reconsideration. Although synthetic melatonin is “chemically identical” to natural melatonin, commercially available supplements “often contain fillers, inert and other ingredients that may cause effects that would not be expected with natural melatonin,” Clete Kushida, a sleep researcher at Stanford University School of Medicine, told HuffPost in an email.

“This is a concern that clinicians should relay to patients, especially since the contents of the supplements are not regulated by the FDA,” said Kushida. “And since it’s not regulated by the FDA, the long-term effects/consequences have not been studied in a controlled and systematic manner.”



“The word 'safe' is used very freely and loosely with this drug.”
— David Kennaway, University of Adelaide
The verdict

So why do people still use it?

“Unfortunately, it’s acquired a reputation as a safe, ‘natural,’ over-the-counter quick-fix for sleep that will be hard to shake,” said Grandner.

That conviction may explain why melatonin is so popular even though it’s apparently not that effective.

Consumer Reports (http://www.consumerreports.org/vitamins-supplements/does-melatonin-really-help-you-sleep/) said melatonin supplements helped users fall asleep “only 7 minutes faster and sleep 8 minutes longer on average,” according to a 2013 analysis. And the same report notes that “about 20 percent of users in our survey reported next-day grogginess,” and recommended that users exercise caution before driving the next day.

“Melatonin is not an insomnia cure,” Grandner emphasized. “The main reasons regular people find it hard to sleep ― tossing and turning, ruminating in bed ― will not be affected by melatonin.” He suggested that the vast majority of people who struggle to fall asleep would be better served by establishing a consistent routine, practicing good sleep hygiene (http://www.huffpost.com/van-winkles/what-the-hell-is-sleep-hy_b_7663152.html) in the bedroom and getting lots of daytime light exposure.

And for those who do continue to use melatonin, he said to be mindful of the dosage. “A little nudge is as effective as a big push,” he said.

[graciousb]

As a person with sleep issues right out of the gate (even as a baby), as someone who almost never gets naturally drowsy like most people, my experiences/experiments are as follows: Have tried all the classic things suggested, Melatonin triggered depression in me (also did so in a couple friends), Ambien didn't work at all, rx sedative type drugs work but concern about addiction makes me avoid them.

A few things that have helped: wearing blue light blocking glasses at night if I'm looking at a screen, reiki treatments by a gifted practitioner, especially focusing on the head area, and most effective for me, wearing an eyemask and noise cancelling in ear headphones, and most effective for me, listening to something like a podcast or youtube (screen turned away), that is only mildly interesting..the talking seems to distract my own chattering mind completely and allows me to drift off. I have never tried hypnosis for this issue but it might be effective too.

I seem to have a delayed circadian rhythm from what I've read, also seem to need a bit less sleep than most. I think it's almost impossible for others who haven't had this challenge to relate to it or believe it isn't easily resolvable.

[Bill Ryan]

Melatonin triggered depression in me (also did so in a couple friends)

Do please see my post #60 here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103359-Help-with-debilitating-insomnia&p=1320399&viewfull=1#post1320399) — which was very interesting for me.

In summary here, that suggested that a tiny (0.2-0.3 mg) dose of melatonin was MORE effective as a sleep aid than a heavy (3 mg) dose.

With no side-effects, either. There's really not enough melatonin to cause any.

Here's a photo of what I take very occasionally — for me, and to my astonishment, this really works far better. I'd recommend anyone who's used melatonin but then turned away from it, to maybe give it a quick try.

The little slice I take off the 3 mg tablet is really pretty tiny. It works perfectly for me, when I feel I need it, with no side-effects at al.

http://projectavalon.net/melatonin_slice.jpg

[Sue (Ayt)]

One thing that lots of people forget to examine is the prescription meds that they are on. I have two loved ones who realized that is was their BP medication (metoprolol) that they were on that greatly contributed to their problem. Another one found it was the low-dose steroid prescription.


Medications that can affect sleep include:

Anti-arrhythmics (for heart rhythm problems)
Beta blockers (for high blood pressure)
Clonidine (for high blood pressure)
Corticosteroids (for inflammation or asthma)
Diuretics (for high blood pressure)
Cough, cold, and flu medications that contain alcohol
Headache and pain medications that contain caffeine
Nicotine replacement products
Sedating antihistamines (for colds and allergies)
SSRIs (for depression or anxiety)
Sympathomimetic stimulants (for attention deficit disorder)
Theophylline (for asthma)
Thyroid hormone (for hypothyroidism)
How Medications May Affect Sleep (https://www.sleepfoundation.org/articles/how-medications-may-affect-sleep)

[Sue (Ayt)]

Melatonin triggered depression in me (also did so in a couple friends)

Do please see my post #60 here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103359-Help-with-debilitating-insomnia&p=1320399&viewfull=1#post1320399) — which was very interesting for me.

In summary here, that suggested that a tiny (0.2-0.3 mg) dose of melatonin was MORE effective as a sleep aid than a heavy (3 mg) dose.

With no side-effects, either. There's really not enough melatonin to cause any.

Here's a photo of what I take very occasionally — for me, and to my astonishment, this really works far better. I'd recommend anyone who's used melatonin but then turned away from it, to maybe give it a quick try.

The little slice I take off the 3 mg tablet is really pretty tiny. It works perfectly for me, when I feel I need it, with no side-effects at al.

http://projectavalon.net/melatonin_slice.jpg

Maybe a bit off topic, but I read this research study on melatonin that I found interesting:


Abstract
Within recent years, many investigators have implicated the pineal gland and melatonin in the processes of both aging and age-related diseases. These theories stem from the importance of melatonin in a number of biological functions and the fact that melatonin production in the organism is gradually lost throughout life, such that in very old individuals of any species the circadian melatonin rhythm is bearly discernible. In most species, from algae to humans, where it has been investigated, melatonin has been shown to exhibit a strong circadian rhythm in production and secretion, with high levels of the indole always being associated with the dark period of the light:dark cycle. One theory states that when the melatonin rhythm deteriorates during aging, other circadian rhythms are likewise weakened and rhythms become dysynchronized. This dysynchronization is believed to contribute significantly to aging and to render animals more susceptible to age-related diseases. Another theory assumes that the waning melatonin cycle provides an important switch for genetically programmed aging at the cellular level; furthermore, because all cells in the organism are exposed to the same gradually dampening melatonin signal throughout life, all cells age more or less at the same rate. In this theory, it is presumed to be the duration of the nocturnally elevated melatonin (which, like the amplitude, is reduced during aging), which, when coupled to a time-gating signal, is consequential in determining the rate of aging.
<snip>
In the few studies where animals have been supplemented with exogenous melatonin throughout life, life span has been increased up to 25%. Besides its protection of the brain, melatonin has been shown to prevent damage by oxidants to DNA in other organs. Again, protecting DNA is particularly important because there are only two copies in each diploid cell, and structurally impaired DNA would not properly transcribe, leading to metabolic inefficiency and possibility to death of the cell. Thus, for a number of reasons, maintaining a robust melatonin rhythm by exogenously administering the indole may prove to have a variety of beneficial effects, which collectively could serve to prolong life, postpone aging, and reduce the chances of age-related diseases.

The pineal gland and melatonin in relation to aging: A summary of the theories and of the data (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0531556594000455)

[Cara]

Maybe a bit off topic, but I read this research study on melatonin that I found interesting:


Abstract
Within recent years, many investigators have implicated the pineal gland and melatonin in the processes of both aging and age-related diseases. These theories stem from the importance of melatonin in a number of biological functions and the fact that melatonin production in the organism is gradually lost throughout life, such that in very old individuals of any species the circadian melatonin rhythm is bearly discernible. In most species, from algae to humans, where it has been investigated, melatonin has been shown to exhibit a strong circadian rhythm in production and secretion, with high levels of the indole always being associated with the dark period of the light:dark cycle. One theory states that when the melatonin rhythm deteriorates during aging, other circadian rhythms are likewise weakened and rhythms become dysynchronized. This dysynchronization is believed to contribute significantly to aging and to render animals more susceptible to age-related diseases. Another theory assumes that the waning melatonin cycle provides an important switch for genetically programmed aging at the cellular level; furthermore, because all cells in the organism are exposed to the same gradually dampening melatonin signal throughout life, all cells age more or less at the same rate. In this theory, it is presumed to be the duration of the nocturnally elevated melatonin (which, like the amplitude, is reduced during aging), which, when coupled to a time-gating signal, is consequential in determining the rate of aging.
<snip>
In the few studies where animals have been supplemented with exogenous melatonin throughout life, life span has been increased up to 25%. Besides its protection of the brain, melatonin has been shown to prevent damage by oxidants to DNA in other organs. Again, protecting DNA is particularly important because there are only two copies in each diploid cell, and structurally impaired DNA would not properly transcribe, leading to metabolic inefficiency and possibility to death of the cell. Thus, for a number of reasons, maintaining a robust melatonin rhythm by exogenously administering the indole may prove to have a variety of beneficial effects, which collectively could serve to prolong life, postpone aging, and reduce the chances of age-related diseases.

The pineal gland and melatonin in relation to aging: A summary of the theories and of the data (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0531556594000455)

Thanks for sharing this interesting study Ayt.

Here are the concluding remarks from the study:

CONCLUDING REMARKS
Besides aging, there are many diseases that have as their basis, at least in part, free radical damage. Many of these involve the central nervous system because of the high vulnerability of this organ to oxidative attack. Melatonin seems to be somewhat preferentially taken up by cells in the nervous system (Menendez-Pelaez et al., 1993) and the stimulatory effect of the indole on the antioxidant enzyme glutathione peroxidase is particularly well manifested in the brain. These facts imply that melatonin may afford special protection to the brain from the very damaging actions of oxygen-based radicals. It is also obvious, however, that melatonin's protective actions are not restricted to the central nervous system because in the experiments that used the highly toxic carcinogen, safrole, hepatic DNA was potently protected by melatonin (Tan et al., 1993b, 1994). Thus, melatonin likely provides protection against oxidative attack in every cell in the organism. This is certainly consistent with the notion that the indole readily diffuses into every cell and into every subcellular compartment.

Aging is a complicated process and cannot be attributable to a single factor, e.g., oxidative damage. Preliminary studies have shown that melatonin does delay aging and postpone senescence (Maestroni et al., 1989; Pierpaoli and Regelson, 1994). Whether, in fact, melatonin will be a true antiaging hormone in all species awaits investigation, although early results are promising in this regard. Heretofore, it was generally conceded that the circadian melatonin rhythm as well as its circannual variations (due to seasonal fluctuations in light:dark ratio) provide time-of-day and time-of-year information, respectively, to the organism (Reiter, 1993). Considering the drop in melatonin with age, it is possible that this important metabolic hormone also provides time-of-life information; thus, the amplitude of the nocturnal melatonin peak and/or the duration of nocturnally elevated melatonin may be indicative of the biological age of the organism.

~~~

Related:

I read an interesting study on different substances that can help with radiation. Melatonin was one of the substances mentioned:


...Saada et al. evaluated the effects of omega-3 fatty acids in rats’ brain and found that this substance may reduce the oxidative stress produced by the whole-body gamma irradiation, study that suggests the protective effects of omega-3 fatty acids on the ROS that are produced in the brain, before and during the exposure to radiation (134).

The oxidative stress in rat lens is enhanced by the exposure to gamma-radiation and the antioxidant capacity can be increased by the administration of melatonin, as Taysi et al. established in their study (135). Melatonin can be a good protector against cataract that develops in pilots.
...
The antioxidant supplementation can aid in increasing the protection against the cosmic radiation in persons that travel by plane at high altitudes, but the type and the dose of the antioxidants must be adjusted according to age, sex, time spent at high altitudes and conditions related to the variations of the magnetosphere intensity and solar activity. A healthy diet helps in the immunity processes and the oral administration of antioxidants before and during the travel by plane reduces the cosmic radiation-induced oxidative stress. The exposed tegument can be protected with topical treatment containing Green tea extract and the melatonin administration can prevent the cataract development. The further studies on antioxidants will complete the information required for a better protection against cosmic radiation-induced oxidative stress.

...

[Sources]
...
134. Saada HN, Said UZ, Mahdy EME, Elmezayen HE, Shedid SM. Fish oil omega-3 fatty acids reduce the severity of radiation-induced oxidative stress in the rat brain. Int J Rad Biol 2014; 90: 1179-1183.

135. Taysi S, Memisogullari R, Koc M, et al. Melatonin reduces oxidative stress in the rat lens due to radiation-induced oxidative injury. Int J Radiat Biol 2008; 84: 803-808.
...

From: http://www.jpp.krakow.pl/journal/archive/08_18/pdf/10.26402/jpp.2018.4.03.pdf

[rgray222]

I was listening to NPR a few months ago about insomnia. They were interviewing two doctors who were supposed to be the leading experts on this topic. At the end of the programme, they asked them if they would only give one or two tips to the listeners for a better night sleep what would it be.

1. Go to bed around the same time every night. They said this was probably the most important thing people could do.
2. Do not engage with any electronic stuff for about an hour before getting into bed. No phone, TV no internet etc.

This topic is near and dear to me as I have had insomnia most of my life. I have taken this to heart especially getting to bed around the same time every night and it has made a tremendous difference. It has not solved the problem but it has reduced the sleepless nights by 80%+.

[Bill Ryan]

Here's an EXCELLENT short, detailed presentation about insomnia by Dr Roger Seheult from MedCram.

In previous episodes, he's been reporting on the coronavirus situation. In his two previous episodes (#16 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqZYEgREuZ8) and #17 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlbM6VVkVZM)), he's explained exactly how good sleep does 5x as much as ANYTHING else as a simple-self-support tool to boost your immune defenses against any virus of any kind.

In this new episode #18, he branches into the topic of insomnia in general. Highly recommended. That section starts at 6:28, and lasts for an information-packed 8 minutes.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE4pBkslqS4
At the end, he references his free Insomnia Course, available at at the MedCram website here:


https://medcram.com/courses/insomnia-explained-clearly

I've not yet watched that, but I'd be very confident it's as information-packed as all his other videos.

[onawah]

The Importance of Vitamin D and B5 for Optimal Sleep
by Dr. Joseph Mercola
March 01, 2020
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/03/01/gominak-vitamin-d.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art2HL&cid=20200301Z1&et_cid=DM473164&et_rid=820954470

Rq9e1zKZvQw
"STORY AT-A-GLANCE
Vitamin D deficiency has become epidemic in many parts of the world as we’ve been taught to avoid the sun. Lower vitamin D levels have produced two unexpected consequences: poor sleep and a dangerous change in the intestinal microbiome
Vitamin D is needed to produce acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter that helps you get into the deeper, healing phases of sleep, and controls your normal paralysis during deep sleep
Certain B vitamins also play an important role in sleep. For example, B5 — pantothenic acid — makes coenzyme A, which you use to make acetylcholine
If you’re healthy you have four types of gut bacteria living inside you. Those bacteria need your vitamin D to grow properly, and in return they make eight B vitamins that you need. Without enough vitamin D the healthy bacteria are replaced by others that don’t require vitamin D but are unable to make the B vitamins that you need to sleep normally
Ideally, you need to normalize your gut microbiome so that your gut bacteria make all the B vitamins your body and brain need
To normalize your gut microbiome, maintain a vitamin D level over 40 ng/mL and take B50 or B100 (all eight B’s at 100 mg each) for three months

In this interview, Dr. Stasha Gominak,1 a neurologist and sleep coach, explains the curious synergy between vitamin D deficiency, a changed microbiome and poor sleep.

I met Gominak at the American College for the Advancement in Medicine’s annual meeting in 2019 in Nashville. Her lecture was about ways to improve your sleep. I thought I was aware of most of them, but the connection between vitamin D and sleep surprised me.

Gominak’s research suggests lack of vitamin D causes impairment in your brain stem’s ability to produce normal sleep. So far, she’s treated more than 7,000 patients with her innovative “sleep repair” approach. She’s also published scientific papers on her theories.

Vitamin D Deficiency Linked to Sleep Disorders
Gominak had no interest in vitamin D, initially. She was fascinated by sleep, and was trying to figure out why so many young and otherwise healthy patients were having such trouble sleeping. Many also had sleep apnea. Over time, it became clear that most of them didn’t have enough rapid eye movement (REM) sleep, yet there was no medical hypothesis to explain why.

“I did a lot of sleep studies in teenagers and kids, the great majority of them relatively healthy people,” Gominak says. “They didn’t have terrible sleep apnea, but they all had much less deep sleep than normal, and it’s deep sleep that allows us to heal and feel rested.

They’re complaining of being tired. They have epilepsy. They have daily headache. They have things that are linked to our ability to repair our brain every night.’

Once finding that they had no deep sleep, I wanted to fix their sleep AND their neurologic problem. Unfortunately, I was pretty much stuck with using what we had at the time: continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) devices for those who had apnea and sleeping pills for those with insomnia.

That was very unsatisfying for myself and the patients. Then, pretty much by accident, I found that one of my young headache patients who was extremely tired and had absolutely no deep sleep in her sleep study … had a B12 deficiency.

I began to check B12 levels in all the patients who had abnormal sleep. Eventually I measured vitamin D levels also. Over a period of time, it became clear that everybody’s vitamin D was low. That, by itself, was not enough to get excited about, but what was exciting was that there were numerous articles showing vitamin D receptors in the brain stem areas that control our ability to flip in and out of the phases of sleep.

The part of the brain called the brainstem contains our sleep clock and the cells that paralyze us so we can heal. These areas are covered with vitamin D receptors. That was published in the 1980s, but no one paid attention.”

Vitamin D has also been shown to modulate hibernation in animals, Gominak notes, yet vitamin D is not recognized for its impact on human sleep.

Adding to the work of Walter Stumpf, the scientist who published the original articles on vitamin D’s impact on hibernation, sleep and metabolism, Gominak performed a two-year study, concluding that sleep disorders of many kinds, not just sleep apnea, are linked to vitamin D deficiency and can be improved by careful supplementation. She explains that we track sleep at home by measuring paralysis in sleep:

“What we’re using now to measure sleep with sleep trackers is, ‘When are we paralyzed?’ Because the only time we get paralyzed is when we’re in deep sleep, slow-wave sleep or REM sleep.

The most important part of using vitamin D is vitamin D and other components come together to make acetylcholine. Acetylcholine is the neurotransmitter that allows us to get paralyzed correctly.”Using a Fitness Tracker to Track Your Sleep Cycle
Today, many of her patients will use fitness trackers that track sleep, such as Fitbit or the Oura ring, both of which can measure slow-wave deep sleep, which is one of the sleep phases during which your body is paralyzed.

“As far as I can tell, the movement measurements used in most of those tracking devices are pretty accurate,” she says. That said, I discourage the use of Fitbit for two primary reasons.

First of all, it emits a green light, which can interfere with your sleep quality. Second, Fitbit was recently bought by Google, which is siphoning your personal health and fitness data from these devices for their own gain. I think the Oura ring is a superior device overall, and it won’t steal your personal data.

B Vitamins and Sleep
Vitamin D and B12 aren’t the only nutrients capable of influencing your sleep, however. Toward the end of the two-year study Gominak led, in which vitamin D and B12 were used, most patients began getting worse again. Their sleep started deteriorating, and they were experiencing more pain.

A patient gave her a book detailing the use of vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid) for rheumatoid arthritis pain. “I was not very interested in vitamins,” Gominak admits, but she eventually read the book. What finally caught her interest was the fact that B5 supplementation helped improve rheumatic patients’ sleep.

Research has shown that when B5 is blocked, patients will develop four distinct symptoms within two weeks: burning in the hands and feet, an odd puppet-like gait, gastrointestinal issues and insomnia. However, as Gominak and dozens of her patients discovered, too much can also cause problems.

When taking 400 milligrams (mg) of pantothenic acid and one daily capsule of B100 (a B supplement that contains all eight B vitamins), pain scores and sleep disturbances skyrocketed. Many complained of feeling “revved” up and unable to fall asleep again.

“I realized that I had just made everything about my sleep worse, taking the recommended dose of pantothenic acid,” Gominak says, “so I stopped the 400 mg [of B5] and [took] just B100, which has 100 mg pantothenic acid.”

Overnight, she noticed a distinct change. Her pain disappeared and her sleep improved. Patients that made the same switch reported similar results. All of this suggests there’s a lot we don’t know about the proper dosage of many vitamins. What’s more, further research led her to form the hypothesis that B vitamins really should be produced in your gut, by intestinal bacteria.

“If you think about animals that lie in the ground for four or six months, like bears, clearly … they’re not eating every day, [yet] they need a source of B [vitamins] every day. That implies the microbiome [is] an important … source of Bs …

Before the 1980s, there was very good science about the B vitamins … It turns out there are body stores of B’s. There are body sources of B6, B5, thiamin and vitamin C.

I was struggling to explain why we got better then worse again. Maybe when giving vitamin D, I made their sleep better and helped them make more repairs. But as they made more repairs, they used up their stores of the B vitamins.”

The All-Important Role of Gut Bacteria
Part of the problem, Gominak surmised, was that, for some reason, her patients’ gut bacteria were not properly making B vitamins, resulting in a deficiency. Merely adding vitamin D doesn’t fix that. “I had assumed vitamin D was a growth factor for the bacteria, and when I gave it, they would come back,” she said, “but they didn’t.”

As explained by Gominak, there are four species of intestinal bacteria that make the eight B vitamins, and they appear to work symbiotically, feeding each other these B vitamins back and forth. When they work optimally, you’re getting all the B vitamins your body needs, and when you have just the right dose, your sleep will be optimized as well.

Unfortunately, while we now know that a blood level of vitamin D between 60 nanograms per milliliter (ng/mL) and 80 ng/mL is ideal, we still do not know what an ideal level of B5 is. Blood measurements also appear to be rather inaccurate, as they do not reflect your stores.

“There’s also something extremely peculiar and interesting about B5,” Gominak says. “We now have a huge amount of knowledge about the absorption of B5. There is a pump, [which] pumps in alpha lipoic acid, biotin and pantothenic acid from the gut. The exact same pump is used to pump B5 into the cerebrospinal fluid.

The interesting part about that [when] it goes into the head, it becomes coenzyme A, which then helps to make acetylcholine. One of the things that was mysterious to me was, ‘Why would my patients need 100 mg when ... every publication says 400 mg is the right dose of pantothenic acid?’

Clearly, I and my clients are in a different place. Now, that would suggest that having vitamin D around in the brain somehow changes what happens [to the B5 vitamin].”

The Importance of Acetylcholine
As explained by Gominak, in the adrenal, B5 makes cortisol. In the brain, it makes acetylcholine — first by being incorporated into coenzyme A, which is the donor for the acetyl group that makes ‘’acetyl’’ choline. When the enzyme choline acetyl transferase is added to the mix, you get acetylcholine, and this is where vitamin D comes in.

There are vitamin D receptors in the reticular nucleus of the thalamus and vitamin D is related to the reticular activation — the sleep-wake portion of your brain. When vitamin D enters the nucleus, it expresses choline acetyl transferase. In other words, vitamin D is one of three components that must come together to make acetylcholine.

You will also need the raw material, choline, to produce sufficient amounts of acetylcholine. Choline is typically obtained from animal foods. The highest concentration is in egg yolks, which is one of the reasons I eat five eggs a day. It is important to obtain the eggs from high-quality organically raised chickens. I raise my own chickens but if you don’t, get them from someone locally who does.

Acetylcholine has many important functions. For starters, your parasympathetic nervous system runs on it, and many publications have shown that people with sleep disorders, or who are otherwise ill, have excessive sympathetic tone, which in turn results in elevated epinephrine and norepinephrine, which are indicative of stress.

According to Gominak, having an elevated sympathetic tone may actually be the result of an acetylcholine deficiency. What’s more, acetylcholine is instrumental in maintaining alertness during the day and allowing you to fall asleep and transition through the various sleep stages at night. It’s also part of what allows your body to be paralyzed during deep sleep. Yet no one ever takes acetylcholine into account when investigating sleep disturbances.

“It turns out that we don’t have any drugs for acetylcholine. There aren’t any, except nicotine,” she says. “Acetylcholine has nicotinic receptors or muscarinic receptors [and] there are a lot of connections between the acetylcholine nicotinic receptors and neurologic illness.”

Attention deficit disorder (ADD) and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) have become epidemic in the past decade, and research shows that acetylcholine nicotinic receptors in the frontal lobes are responsible for directing our attention and focus during the day.

Then, at night, a “switch” flips and we fall asleep. Interestingly, this switch into paralyzed sleep involves the same chemical that allows us to remain awake and focused, namely acetylcholine. According to Gominak, once your vitamin D and B levels normalize, your brain is finally able to start repairing damage that has been incurred during years of poor sleep.

As a result of increased repairs, patients will often find themselves sleeping longer than eight hours, and remain in deep REM sleep longer than normal, as this is the phase during which cellular repair and regeneration is done.

Without deep sleep, your body simply cannot perform the needed cellular repair to maintain health, which is part of why sleep dysfunction can have such wide-ranging health effects.

What Constitutes a Healthy Microbiome?
Interestingly, Gominak discovered that as you sleep more, you need more B vitamins. Which brings us back to the microbiome in your gut. Gominak cites one 2015 paper that postulates that having a healthy microbiome is all about having a microbiome that produces the eight B vitamins.

To optimize your gut microbiome, Gominak recommends having a vitamin D level above 40 ng/mL, and taking a B50 or B100 supplement for three months. This will help your microbiome “grow back” so that it’s producing the ideal amount of B vitamins on its own.

“If you never let your D fall below 40, you’ll never lose them again. That’s my belief,” she says. What’s more, normalizing your microbiome will also allow your body to protect itself against foreign invaders by producing natural antibiotics. Gominak explains:

“One of the really important concepts of having a normal microbiome is, it is not just in your small intestine and your colon. I actually smell different since my microbiome came back. It covers all parts in your body. The literature is really strong to make the argument that we are actually like the Charles Schultz character ‘’Pig-Pen’’.

We walk around in this cloud of bacteria, viruses and fungi that cover us — in our nose, in our mouth, in our skin, in our hair, all over us — and that those organisms are the ones that protect us from infections. They make chemicals that kill their competitors. They keep the clostridium difficile under control in our body.

One of the things that I’ve been able to see happen is my clients can still take antibiotics. They actually will reconstitute their microbiome normally as long as they keep their [vitamin] D over 40 ng/mL, they will grow back. I personally believe the appendix is designed the way it is to be a little library of all the bacteria.

It’s not that I don’t believe that antibiotics change what’s going on in there. They absolutely do. However, I don’t think we have to be as afraid of them. There are two things that are being proposed now to improve the microbiome:

One is probiotics. I personally have used them … I think they’re kind of worthless. If they would work, you would eat them for one month, and then you’d be self-sustaining for the rest of your life.

[The second is] about feeding your bacteria … Once you have a normal foursome [the four types of bacteria that produce the eight B vitamins], what we’re really doing is feeding the bacteria.

We feed the bacteria, and then the bacteria feed us. That’s not the way we’ve been looking at it. I would say all the literature that’s talking about the effect diet has on what lives inside us is absolutely pivotal. It’s not like, ‘You just take these vitamins and everything gets fixed.’ It’s not that simple by a long shot.”

The Case for Organic Food
With respect to your diet, it’s important to eat organic for two primary reasons. One is that most of the antibiotics are not given to humans. They’re given to animals, and the use of antibiotics in food production is a primary driver of antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

Most nonorganic food is also contaminated with glyphosate, which can decimate your gut bacteria and impact your mitochondrial function. There’s emerging evidence that mitochondrial function is really the core of health and chronic degenerative disease.

Mitochondria are primitive bacteria inside your cells that are affected by antibiotics, and glyphosate has antibiotic activity too. While there are many strategies you can use to upregulate mitochondrial biogenesis, it’s important to minimize the damage to begin with.

An interesting paper2 published online January 16, 2020 in The Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology also sheds light on how vitamin D and melatonin work synergistically to protect mitochondrial health and ensure proper function. As noted in this paper:

“The biosynthetic pathways of vitamin D and melatonin are inversely related relative to sun exposure. A deficiency of these molecules has been associated with the pathogenesis of cardiovascular diseases, including arterial hypertension, neurodegenerative diseases, sleep disorders, kidney diseases, cancer, psychiatric disorders, bone diseases, metabolic syndrome, and diabetes, among others.

During aging, the intake and cutaneous synthesis of vitamin D, as well as the endogenous synthesis of melatonin are remarkably depleted, therefore, producing a state characterized by an increase of oxidative stress, inflammation, and mitochondrial dysfunction.

Both molecules are involved in the homeostatic functioning of the mitochondria. Given the presence of specific receptors in the organelle, the antagonism of the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system (RAAS), the decrease of reactive species of oxygen (ROS), in conjunction with modifications in autophagy and apoptosis, anti-inflammatory properties inter alia, mitochondria emerge as the final common target for melatonin and vitamin D.”

Optimize Your Sleep to Improve Your Health
Let’s be clear: We’re not saying vitamin D and B supplements are magic bullets that will fix any sleep problem you may have. Your sleep hygiene is dependent on several other basic factors as well, such as limiting blue light exposure at night and making sure you get sunlight exposure during the brightest part of the day.

That said, vitamin D and pantothenic acid insufficiency can play significant roles if you’re still having trouble sleeping after addressing more foundational factors.

“The stuff that I have on my site are things that were overlooked … There are hundreds of sites that will tell you about circadian rhythms, taking away the electromagnetic forces in your bedroom and the blue light.

It’s not that what I have is the be all, end all. It’s that it’s a really important little piece that you need to set in there. I also happen to think that it connects the epidemics of sleep disorders to the weight gain and the IBS.”

In her practice, Gominak has seen patients recover from a variety of problems, from gastrointestinal problems to anemia, once their gut microbiome was normalized with the help of vitamin D and the temporary use of B vitamins.

Again, keep in mind that once your gut microbiome has been restored, taking high doses of B vitamins can backfire and trigger insomnia, as your body is now making the appropriate amount by itself. At that point, the excess ends up having an amphetamine-like effect that keeps you awake.

“I personally think that getting the microbiome back in most people who are pretty sick is [step] one. And then they need to have some supplementation, not huge doses, but some supplementation for a year or two after that. And then keep an open mind about the fact that eventually, you’ll get to a place where you don’t need to supplement most things, unless you have a particular genetic weakness.”

More Information
To learn more, see Gominak’s website, drgominak.com. Under “Quick Start Basics,” you’ll find the general outline of her RightSleep protocol. Also on the homepage you can purchase a workbook that helps you to work through her protocol during the course of a year.

“The website is dedicated to the why,” she says. “I’m very invested in the why. I saw these things happen to my patients. They can’t be making it up. They don’t know each other. They don’t even have the same disease, yet they all tell me the same thing.

That means the basic truth is always what the patient says about their body. And then it’s my job to see if I can find a scientific explanation for that, in animals and other humans.

I have lots of written material. I have free videos ... I have a workbook you can buy. I also offer one-on-one sessions … I think many people who are not really very sick and just want to add this to their health regimen can do it easily with the workbook. That’s the intention anyway.

I also have to comment that once you get better from this D-microbiome point of view, what we all want is to be healthy and have long lives. Sleep is one of the four basic pillars: Sleep, diet, exercise and spirituality.

You can’t really short any of those and be a happy, fully healthy, content person. I don’t spend a lot of time talking about the other parts, but they’re very important as well.”A growing body of evidence shows that vitamin D plays a crucial role in disease prevention and maintaining optimal health. There are about 30,000 genes in your body, and vitamin D affects nearly 3,000 of them, as well as vitamin D receptors located throughout your body.

Vitamin D May Help Protect Against Cancer and Other Diseases
According to one large-scale study, having optimal vitamin D levels can slash your risk of cancer and can help prevent at least 16 different types of cancer, including pancreatic, lung, ovarian, prostate and skin cancers.

Vitamin D from sun exposure also radically decreases your risk of autoimmune diseases like multiple sclerosis (MS) and Type 1 diabetes. Sun exposure also helps prevent osteoporosis, which is a significant concern for women in particular.

Magnesium Is Important for Heart Health
Magnesium is involved in the regulation of blood sugar and insulin sensitivity, which is important for the prevention of many chronic diseases, including Type 2 diabetes and heart disease and dementia. It also supports your brain and heart health via other mechanisms.

It supports healthy heart function by relaxing your blood vessels and normalizing blood pressure, for example. Magnesium also has anti-inflammatory activity, support your endothelial function, and the function of your muscles and nerves, including the action of your heart muscle.

Low magnesium has been linked to a higher risk for hypertension, cardiovascular disease, arrhythmias, stroke and sudden cardiac death. According to one scientific review, which included studies dating as far back as 1937, low magnesium actually appears to be the greatest predictor of heart disease, and other recent research shows even subclinical magnesium deficiency can compromise your cardiovascular health.

Omega-3 Fats Are Crucial to Your Well-Being
Meanwhile, recent research suggests high doses (4 grams) of the omega-3 fats EPA and DHA may help improve healing after a heart attack. Other benefits of omega-3 fats include prevention of lupus and Parkinson’s disease, decreased anxiety, healthier and stronger bones, as well as fighting fats in the body.

However, you can’t tell by looking in a mirror if you are deficient in vitamin D, magnesium or omega-3s. The only real way to know if you are deficient in these nutrients is to get tested.

How to Test Your Levels
I’m really pleased GrassrootsHealth Nutrient Research Institute has expanded its research projects to include a range of different tests, seeing how deficiency may be needlessly affecting the health of so many. Like its Vitamin D*action Project, the Magnesium*PLUS Focus Project will allow us all to take action on known science with a consensus of experts without waiting for institutional lethargy.

The Vitamin D*action Project has truly demonstrated the value measurement can have on public health, and there’s no doubt in my mind that the Magnesium*PLUS Focus Project will have the same impact. As in earlier projects, once the study of a community is completed, all that information can be used to push for public health recommendations that will benefit everyone."
Sources and References
1 DrGominak.com
2 The Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology May 2020; 199: 105595

[TomKat]

I've only read the first 2 pages of this thread, so maybe some have already said some of this. But here's my 2 cents. I'll also note that none of these tips have come from experts, it's stuff I've picked up myself or word of mouth over the years.

I and most of the people I know (the types likely to read this forum), need a cold room to sleep in. I have a thermometer on the wall and don't even try to sleep until I've got the temp down to 15.5 Celsius/60 Fahrenheit -- I sleep under a sheet and comforter. If I can't get the temp that low, then it's sheet-only or on top of the covers. If I do happen to get to sleep without that requirement, I wake up roasting a few hours later. I also run a white noise maker to drown out street sounds. Also, I always read before closing my eyes, and don't close my eyes until I've yawned twice. If I wake up in the middle of the night, I don't resist the insomnia, I read for an hour then go back to sleep.

Ideally I get only 6-1/2 hours of sleep -- if I go over that, I'll only need 4 or 5 the next night. If I have a night of insomnia, I find I can alleviate almost all the symptoms if I get up an hour later than normal, even though I got 3 hours total.

The final tip is: every Sunday night I take an Ibuprofen PM, because my sleep schedule gets off a little on weekends. I've tried Benadryl, but it makes me too groggy the next day, even though they supposedly have the same sleep ingredient.

[Bill Ryan]

:bump:

Bumping this valuable thread with a PDF from the supplements company Vitacost that came to my email inbox.

It may or may not be of any value, but (a) it's a way of reminding folks of this thread, and (b) it's possible that something in there might be of help to those with chronic sleeping problems.

:flower:


The Ultimate Guide to Healthy Sleep
https://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Vitacost%20-%20The%20Ultimate%20Guide%20to%20Healthy%20Sleep.pdf

https://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Vitacost%20-%20The%20Ultimate%20Guide%20to%20Healthy%20Sleep.pdf

[TomKat]

For me, nothing works better than a daily dropper under the tongue of full-spectrum CBD oil from a good brand. Most locally produced brands are good, but mail order, not so much. I don't know if it's the calming effect or the lowered blood pressure effect or what, but it works. But I must admit, I occasionally take an Ibuprofen PM or two on Sunday night to get my circadian rhythm back for the weekday.