Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion [Archive]

ThePythonicCow

28th July 2018, 05:53

Yesterday I found myself reading parts of the century old document The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_zion06.htm).

It described rather well (granted in somewhat arcane language) many of the major problems we are currently having, causing poverty, death, sickness, bankruptcy, war, tyranny, and such.

===

Then I happened on a paper that Miles Mathis wrote, about this "Protocols" document: http://mileswmathis.com/protocols.pdf . As usual for Miles, he has his own take on things.

Miles figures that the "Protocols" document was written neither by someone in the Elders of the Zions, nor was the document a forgery. Rather Miles makes a good case that the "Protocols" document was produced by some European royalty who were losing to these Zions, and who wanted to document the methods and apparent goals of these Zions.

But then Miles takes an unexpected twist in his paper, to suggest that if just 50 of the most elite leaders of these Zions had a change of heart and mind, to work for the betterment of humanity rather than working to extract as much power and wealth as they could from humanity, then that would have a powerful effect on the well being of all, both humanity and these 50 leaders.

===

This got me to thinking further.

There is a long standing question before us: Who are the elite bastards?

Who are these Zions (Zionists in more current phrasing)?

There seems to be some connection between Zionists and Jews, but merely suggesting that earns one the Scarlet Letters "A-S", for Anti-Semitic, and might even earn one jail time in some countries.

===

I have a new way of looking at who these elite bastards are ... these Zionists as currently termed.

Well, a little bit new ... building on my prior readings and comments.

It will take three leaps to the ferry boat, three observations, connected together, to present my view. Don't get wet <grin>.

There is Hope, at the end of the three leaps.

===

Observation One:

For thousands of years (at least) there have been multiple nations, regions, or civilizations on this planet, such as in the Orient, the Middle East, India, Africa, Europe, the Americas and in various other places at various times.

Throughout this time, there has been trade between these regions. Various things trade at various times, including food, spices, cloth, metals, energy, weapons, slaves, drugs, art, cars, computers, war, ... Whatever one region had that another region might value presented an opportunity for a profitable trade.

Throughout this time, there has been an international class of traders, people without a home, who dealt more with, trusted more, each other than the various nationalities and races they traded with.

These traders valued international law or a "law of the seas" or a "Uniform Commercial Code (UCC)", that they could count on, as a common legal framework, across all nations.

These traders valued an internationally respected form of money, that held its value regardless of the circumstances of the various nations and peoples they were trading with. For thousands of years, this form was primarily gold and silver, and for the last couple of centuries it has been more the British pound then the US Dollar. It was better to trade in such money, or something reliably convertible to such money, than to depend on the rising and falling fortunes of the various local and national currencies in the regions where they traded.

These traders long ago realized that they needed to keep that "international money" in demand, to that it would hold its value for them. By lending that money, they created a future demand for more of that money, to repay the debt. Debt money that was lent to potential customers of the goods they had for trade, payable in that "international currency" or equivalent, or if unpaid, the forfeiture of valuable collateral such as land, resources or labor, made for profits coming (on the interest) and going (on the forfeitures.) Thus the international traders and bankers make debt slaves of people, businesses and nations, around the world.

And thus did these people without a home become very wealthy, trading with and lending to individuals, businesses and governments.
Observation Two:

As we have seen in the last century with the United States, with great wealth and power comes great corruption.

The Rockefeller-Bush-Clinton-Obama crime syndicate is however just a babe in the woods compared to the "people without a home", these international traders, who have been working their trading and lending for thousands of years.

Thus is the corruption of these traders great and evil.

The century old document The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_zion06.htm) describes this corruption, in ways that still fit our present times rather too well.

Observation Three:

Just as the people of a particular region or nation tend to be descendants of mostly one or a few particular races, so do these international traders and lenders tend more often to be of Jewish descent, especially, since the Roman Empire, Ashkenazi Jews.

Of course most Americans, like most Jews, are ordinary, decent people. However the (frequently) Jewish racial (by genetic heritage or inter-marriage) of the more dastardly international traders, bankers and associated power brokers provides them with convenient cover. Just as American leaders, even the most wicked, will defend their evil deeds (crimes against humanity on a grand scale) on the grounds that they are patriots standing for the safety and well being of Americans, so will the cry of "Anti-Semitism" beat back criticisms of the more dastardly traders, bankers and associates, on the grounds that one is racially attacking all people of Jewish descent.

A Hopeful Turn of Events:

Perhaps we are presently undergoing such a dramatic shift in the means of trade, communication and finance, across the nations of this planet, that the fundamental fabric of civilization on which the more evil of these international traders, bankers and power brokers depend is falling away.

Perhaps the turning from evil to good of most of the 50 most powerful people on this planet, that Miles Mathis envisions in the paper of his I cite above is starting to happen even now, as these most powerful people are realizing that their way of "doing business" for the last few thousand years is no longer so well suited for the globally connected civilization that we are rapidly becoming.

If so, that would be a potentially wonderful turn of events. For power breeds corruption, and such broad and varied power, for such a long time, has bred some very deep corruption. Good riddance.

===

I recommend spending a few minutes, or a couple of hours, as is your style, perusing that century old document The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_zion06.htm).

It describes our present corruption, in ways that still fit our present times rather too well.

Step one in any Twelve Step program: Know the depth of your current depraved condition.

===

P.S. -- The title of this thread "Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion" refers to Joseph P. Farrell's book Babylon's Banksters: The Alchemy of Deep Physics, High Finance and Ancient Religion (http://a.co/626rYjC ), to William Shakespeare's play The Merchant of Venice (https://www.williamshakespeare.net/the-merchant-of-venice.jsp), and to the aforementioned document The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_zion06.htm), all three of which consider this same group of international traders, bankers and power brokers.

A Voice from the Mountains

28th July 2018, 06:06

Very timely post, as I just got Dr. Farrell's Babylon's Banksters, but haven't got a chance to read it yet. I've had an interest in looking into the Protocols of Zion too but I also want to look into the historiography of the document itself first.

I don't think it's an accident that England, and later Great Britain, became master of the seas. The bankers of Venice apparently moved to London during the reign of William and Mary. From there they financed the establishment of the British Empire through debt banking.

The American Revolution was also precipitated by an economic crash resulting from massive defaults on debt in London. The worst impacted by that crash were the Virginia planters, such as George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. Virginia was by far the largest colony at the time and had been rather loyal to England until that crash threatened to wipe out the livelihood of many of the colony's most prominent citizens, and that's when they finally put their weight behind a rebellion.

Ironically, these Zionist bankers not only funded the British, but funded the Americans during the revolution too. I don't think they care much for "sides" as long as they profit. They financed both sides of the Napoleonic Wars too if I remember correctly, which began only a couple decades later. But then again I haven't read the Protocols yet. I guess on some level the evil is much deeper and spiritual.

ThePythonicCow

28th July 2018, 06:12

I've had an interest in looking into the Protocols of Zion too but I also want to look into the historiography of the document itself first.
The origins of the Protocols of Zion document are obscure, obfuscated and controversial.

If the lack of verified origins is sufficient reason not to consider it, I doubt you will be considering it.

I find the time I have spent with the document well spent, because some of the words in the document describe many of the ills of our present civilization rather well. I know not who really wrote the words, nor what was their real motivation.

A Voice from the Mountains

28th July 2018, 06:55

If the lack of verified origins is sufficient reason not to consider it, I doubt you will be considering it.

Don't be so sure, Paul. I'm not as much skeptical of the document as I am interested in its back story, which I'm sure is very interesting in any case.

History degrees may not be the most useful things in the world, but one trick I've learned is that if you skip the history and go straight to the historiography (ie the documentation of how this history comes down to us, for those who aren't familiar with the term), you learn a lot more from the historical narrative/document itself. I just learned a lot of startling stuff about Jacques Cartier's voyages in this way, but it's the topic of another thread.

I find the time I have spent with the document well spent, because some of the words in the document describe many of the ills of our present civilization rather well. I know not who really wrote the words, nor what was their real motivation.

That is basically what I've heard from others who have read it. My dad has looked at it too and he says basically the same thing, that a prophet would have had to have written it if it's fake. Henry Ford also swore to its accuracy based on his personal dealings, and people may demonize Ford, but he certainly wasn't a stupid man and he certainly had very high financial and political connections.

My problem is that I have way too many things I'd like to read. I'll probably read Farrell next.

By the way, the Protocols are of course public domain, but I have digital copies of some of Farrell's works. If they aren't in the Avalon Library yet I can upload them somewhere. I have The Financial Vipers of Venice, The Giza Death Star, Reich of the Black Sun, and SS Brotherhood of the Bell all in PDF except for the first which is MOBI.

Ahh nevermind... I just checked the Avalon Library (http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/) and it has more than I do. I hit the jackpot. More books that it'll take me months to read. :cool:

ThePythonicCow

28th July 2018, 07:34

If the lack of verified origins is sufficient reason not to consider it, I doubt you will be considering it.

Don't be so sure, Paul. ...
Well ... I did say "If ..." :).

Jayke

28th July 2018, 08:55

Venetian=Phoenician=Canaanites

Remember, it was the Canaanites who the god of the Old Testament took such wrathful and vengeful retribution against because of their wicked and sinful ways.

====================================

https://www.timemaps.com/blog/those-elusive-canaanites/

A culture of horror and creativity
They therefore appear in history in a largely negative light. All cultures have good points and bad points – hardly surprisingly, really, given that they are all made up of human beings. The culture of the Canaanites was no exception.

Barbaric practices

Most notably, their religious practices seem to have been horrific. They included the sacrifice of infants, apparently by the terrible method of committing them alive to the flames of their gods. Such was the widespread nature of this practice amongst the people of the Canaan that one of the main points of an early story in the Bible (Genesis 22), in which the Hebrew patriarch Abraham is prevented by Yahweh (the Israelite God) from sacrificing his son Isaac to him, is to underpin the point that Yahweh does not require infant sacrifice. Such a story would not surely have been necessary if this barbaric practice was not prevalent.

The Romans too, a millennium later, were horrified by the Carthaginian religious practices; and the sacrifice of infants seems to appear in the archaeological record, in the mass burial of tiny bodies in special Carthaginian cemeteries.

A major contribution to human progress

But the Canaanite culture seems also to have been a creative and enterprising one. It made very significant contributions to human progress. Above all, in the middle centuries of the second millennium BC, the Canaanites developed the earliest form of alphabet.

The Canaanite alphabet may well have had Egyptian roots, but was certainly the first true alphabetical script. It seems to have been widespread within Canaanite society by the end of the second millennium, and with the rise of the great Canaanite (a.k.a. Phoenician) trading cities of Tyre and Sidon, they spread this form of script around he Mediterranean world. The Canaanite alphabet thus became ancestral to the Lydian, Greek, Etruscan and Roman (Latin) alphabets. These in turn gave rise to the western European alphabet, and to the Cyrillic alphabet of eastern Europe
===============================

One of the first mentions in recorded history of the Protocols of Zion being used, indirectly at least, was back in Egypt, 2000BC.

The rise and fall of Herakleopolis. I can’t find the exact source document at the moment, but the ruler of herakleopolis writes a letter to his son describing what it means to be a good king. In that letter he mentions how the canaanites are causing trouble to the south of the country, and the asiatics are attacking and settling in the North-East, while Egypt is also struggling due to internal strife (Thebes and Herakleopolis were battling for dominance over control of a unified Egypt). The 3 fronts of battle the Zionists have used to topple many empires...internal corruption and debasement of culture on one front, direct warfare with an opposing culture on a second front, while simultaneously fighting off proxy armies on a third front. The fall of herakleopolis could be the first time the protocols of Zion were implemented. Or at least been part of the ‘Protocols’ development in their infancy stage.

What’s interesting about herakleopolis (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heracleopolis_Magna) is that the legend of the Scythians (an enormous culture that once thrived across the whole of Northern Europe and Asia) were supposedly descended from Heracles. The Scythians were also known as the Saqa, later to become known as Saxons. Originally from Saqqara (50 miles away from Herakleopolis), they were the child of the pharaoh, interested in the Ba, the Saqqara bird, the soul in flight.

http://gilarbey.blogspot.com/2017/01/ancient-masons-adepts-of-god-horus.html?m=1

I always wonder about ‘the Anglo-Saxon Mission’ that Bill mentions. Is it really a mission by Anglo-Saxons to dominate the world? Or has it been a 4000 year old mission by “the enemies of man”, the canaanites, to destroy the Saqa, the Scythians, their culture, their heritage and irradicate the Saxons from existence?

The Scythians are always taught as a bestial and barbaric culture by our Western Academia, but could that just be a case of classic projection by the oligarchs of antiquity?

There’s a book by ‘Donald A Mackenzie - Buddhism in pre-Christian Britain’ (PDF (https://warburg.sas.ac.uk/pdf/bkg1360b2416407.pdf)), which paints a very different picture of a cultured, noble and artistic people prior to Roman-Phoenician oligarchical dominance over the area.

Cardillac

28th July 2018, 14:09

I read the "Protocols" in Bill Cooper's "Behold a Pale Horse"; not recommended reading just before bed-time; yikes!

but whoever wrote them was very prescient-

if I recall correctly they disappeard for awhile then re-emerged ca. 1904 in Czarist Russia which is supposedly when the Jewish aspect was added; hence the belief they are a forgery, a concept that is even supported by Peter Levenda-

if/IF a Royal House in Europe was involved then maybe it was the Romanovs; if my read sources are correct the pogroms, however, were not governmental-sponsored witch hunts but rather peasants taking the so-called "law" into their own hands and throwing out ("diasporing" :-) ) those who held them in debt enslavement;

and because of the pogroms the nr. 1 enemy of the emerging Zionist mv't was Russia- Russia had to be destroyed as well as its monarchy, although there is still controversy as to whether the massacre in the Ipatyev house in Yekatarinburg actually took place- according to Anna Anderson who claimed to be Anastasia "there was no massacre there"- and Henry Kissinger (definitely an insider) once stated "dat story is bool****"-

haven't had time yet to delve into the Mathis material but will get to it-

thanks very much, Paul, for starting this fascinating thread-

take care all-

Larry

uzn

28th July 2018, 14:22

The "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" was written by Russian-French writer Mathieu Golovinski in 1905 for the russian secret service. The Russians needed somebody to blame for the catastrophic conditions in Russia at the time.

see also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matvei_Golovinski

On November 19, 1999, Patrick Bishop reported from Paris:
Research by a leading Russian historian, Mikhail Lepekhine, in recently opened archives has found the forgery to be the work of Mathieu Golovinski, opportunistic scion of an aristocratic but rebellious family that drifted into a life of espionage and propaganda work. After working for the czarist secret service, he later changed sides and joined the Bolsheviks. Mr. Lepekhine’s findings, published in the French magazine L'Express, would appear to clear up the last remaining mystery surrounding the Protocols.
In his 2001 book The Question of the Authorship of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", a Ukrainian scholar Vadim Skuratovsky offers a scrupulous and extensive literary, historical and linguistic analysis of the original Russian language text of the Protocols. Skuratovsky provides evidence that Charles Joly, a son of Maurice Joly (on whose writings the Protocols are based), visited Saint Petersburg in 1902 and that Golovinsky and Charles Joly worked together at Le Figaro in Paris. Skuratovsky also traces the influences of Dostoyevsky's prose (in particular, The Grand Inquisitor and The Possessed) on Golovinsky's writings, including The Protocols.
In his book The Non-Existent Manuscript. A Study of the Protocols of the Sages of Zion, Italian researcher Cesare De Michelis writes that the hypothesis of Golovinski's authorship was based on a statement by Princess Catherine Radziwill, who claimed that she had seen a manuscript of the Protocols written by Golovinsky, Rachkovsky and Manusevich in 1905, but in 1905 Golovinsky and Rachkovsky had already left Paris and moved to Saint-Petersburg. Princess Radziwill was known to be an unreliable source. Also, the protocols had been mentioned already in the press in 1902.
Golovinski had been linked to the work before; the German writer Konrad Heiden identified him as an author of the Protocols in 1944.

enigma3

28th July 2018, 19:06

We are now talking about the one tenth of the one percenters (.01%). The reading I have done suggests that from 300 to 800 old line families are involved with the Rosthchilds at the top of the pyramid. As I understand, the "newest" money in this exclusive club is Rockefeller money. The core of this group resides in London but has tentacles everywhere. The Rosthchilds are Kazarian Jews. They do a damn good job of hiding their activities. If we could look at bank deposits in Switzerland, Luxembourg, London and Liechenstein we would have a good handle on who is who. Follow the money. And, as Ronald Bernard and others have said, those at the top are satanists. Pure evil and ruthlesness are their calling cards.

Hervé

28th July 2018, 20:19

The "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" was written by Russian-French writer Mathieu Golovinski in 1905...

[...]
Well, apparently... not:

[Note from Ken Adachi, Update, Sept. 17, 2014. A small booklet published in 1938 titled The Jewish World Conspiracy (http://educate-yourself.org/cn/Jewish_World_Conspiracy_1938_Karl_Bergmeister.pdf) affirmed the authenticity of the Protocols (http://educate-yourself.org/cn/protocolsaffirmed17sep14.shtml) and said:

"In the matter of the authorship, the American writer *F. Fry, following upon investigations carried out in Russia by Henry Ford, states that the Protocols are the work of the Jewish writer and leader Achad Haam (Ascher Ginsberg (http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=534)), and that they originated in Odessa. Certain circumstances go to show that the Protocols – perhaps following upon the lines of a concept by Achad Haam – formed the subject of a lecture in French Masonic Lodges. The bases for this supposition are the following, namely: that Freemason policy follows the lines of the Protocols, and that S.A. Nilus tells us that the copy which came into his hands in 1901 bore the following inscription: 'Signed by the Representatives of Zion of the 33rd Degree.'"

* I believe there is a typo in the name "F. Fry". I'm reasonably certain that the author meant "L. Fry", which would refer to Mrs. Leslie Fry, pen name for Paquita Louise de Shishmareff, who published an important book in 1931 titled Waters Flowing Eastward ~ Part 1 (https://archive.is/wlnCL), Part 2 (https://archive.is/HCD0z), Part 3 (https://archive.is/K1e53), Supplements (https://archive.is/cpKxc)). She introduced the Protocols to Henry Ford in 1920.
It is now known that Ginsburg (Achad Haam) was not the author of the Protocols as stated in the above 1938 booklet, but rather was a zealous promoter and disseminator of its teachings among his early radicalized group called the Sons of Moses. Evidence is presented in the Introduction, seen further below, that the strategies of subversion and undermining touted in the Protocls were employed by the Elders of Zion in earlier epochs, including the time of Cromwell and the French Revolution of 1788.

The Protocols include the text of a document divided into 24 subheadings (protocols) that formed the subject of a lecture presented among the inner circle of Zion in French Masonic Lodges in the latter decades of the 19th century. Quoting from the booklet:

"The bases for this supposition are the following, namely: that Freemason policy follows the lines of the Protocols, and that S.A. Nilus tells us that the copy which came into his hands in 1901 bore the following inscription: "Signed by the Representatives of Zion of the 33rd Degree."

While the term "protocols" technically refers to the minutes of the proceedings of the Learned Elders of Zion, the document implies a blueprint or strategy to follow in order to achieve the desired goals stated within. The Protocols were a subject of discussion at the First Zionist Congress held in in Basel, Switzerland (spelled Basle at the time) from August 29-31 in 1897 (the Protocols were not conceived or created at the First Zionist Congress as some have erroneously asserted). In 1884, the daughter of a Russian general living in Paris, Mademoiselle Justine Glinka, paid her assistant, Joseph Schoerst (alias Shapiro), a member of the Jewish Mizraim Masonic Lodge, the sum of 2,500 francs for a "document [which] contained extraordinary dictated writings from assorted speeches which would later be included in the final compilation of the Protocols of Zion." (http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=534) (Schoerst was murdered in Egypt within two months of selling his copy of the Protocols to Mademoiselle Glinka). She sent the French original, along with a Russian translation to the Tsar in St. Petersburg, but he never received it. Courtiers, obliged to Jewish interests, intercepted it and kept it from the Tsar. Undeterred, Glinka sent a copy to Alexis Sukhotin, who showed it to Philip Stepanov and Professor Sergyei A. Nilus (http://www.threeworldwars.com/protocols.htm). While Stepanov circulated private copies in 1897, Prof. Nilus published the Protocols for the first time in Russia in 1901, in a book entitled The Great Within the Small, and then in 1905 published it (in Russian) as The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. G. Butmi, a friend of Nilus, brought a copy to England where it was marked received by the British Museum on August 10, 1906.

The first Zionist Congress of 1897 was headed up by Theodor Herzl (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl). Subsequent Zionist congresses were held on an almost yearly basis up to 1913 (World War I intervened from 1914-1918), and then resumed again in 1921.

The ideas and beliefs expressed in these protocols are so hideous and repugnant to the sensibilities of any normal person of good will, that the English translator, Victor E. Marsden, could only work on translating Nilus' 1905 Russian version of the Protocols (at the British Museum) for one hour per day due to his revulsion with the concepts being promoted. The demented individuals who embrace these concepts consider themselves a superior and separate category of humanity who were chosen by "God" to rule over all other men on this planet and establish a simple two tier feudal society: one with Zionist elites at the top and worker (non Jewish, "goyim") serfs below them.

[...]

... Ken Adachi]

Full article: http://educate-yourself.org/cn/protocolsofsion.shtml#top

Then, there is the matter that a certain "Colonel House (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_M._House)" was in possession of a slightly different translation (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?25102-For-an-idea-on-the-big-picture&p=1214800&viewfull=1#post1214800) of those "Protocols" than the Marsden one.

A Voice from the Mountains

28th July 2018, 21:00

Venetian=Phoenician=Canaanites

Wow, have you been reading Fomenko too? :sherlock:

The Hebrews of the Bible spoke a mutually-intelligible language with the Canaanites. They were essentially the same people, practicing different cults (monotheism vs. polytheism). In the Old Testament, the prophets constantly warn the Jews against adopting the practices of their barbaric neighbors, who engaged in child sacrifice to Molech. There is also an early black-and-white Hollywood movie featuring children being placed into a burning Molech effigy, so Hollywood had an early interest in this type of thing too, funnily enough.

You cite Donald A Mackenzie, who I've never heard of, but everything you're saying is overlapping my favorite researchers.

What’s interesting about herakleopolis (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heracleopolis_Magna) is that the legend of the Scythians (an enormous culture that once thrived across the whole of Northern Europe and Asia) were supposedly descended from Heracles. The Scythians were also known as the Saqa, later to become known as Saxons. Originally from Saqqara (50 miles away from Herakleopolis), they were the child of the pharaoh, interested in the Ba, the Saqqara bird, the soul in flight.

You guys here at Avalon never cease to amaze me.

The Scythians are always taught as a bestial and barbaric culture by our Western Academia, but could that just be a case of classic projection by the oligarchs of antiquity?

I believe it was during the medieval era during which the Catholic Church was dominant, that the "histories" of the Scythians were created. It's such a jumbled mess that people still debate who they were, but I agree, from independent research I've done it seems they were the Saxons/Sakka/etc. It's amazing to me to see you here volunteering this information so readily, as arcane as it is.

Toth Gyula is a Hungarian researcher who noticed that the Hungarian Chronicle's version of the Hunnic invasions only mentions one wave while Roman Catholic sources describe 2 waves roughly 50 years apart in the 5th century AD. There was a duplication of events from confusing manuscript sources in different languages, but an even more consequential fabrication was placed over the heart of the "Dark Age" circa 500-800 AD. This is where other researchers such as Heribert Illig come in, who initially argued that Charlemagne never even existed, but such a man does appear to have existed and has simply been duplicated in the historical record.

When you combine the duplications into a single narrative, it goes something like this (still working out the kinks in details): Attila the Hun (he is recorded under several different names) led the Hunnic host invading western Europe which included various "Germanic" and "Celtic" tribes, including the Scythians/Saxons/Sakka, who according to the manuscripts originally came from the area of the lower Danube, near the Black Sea. His son was the figure we popularly recognize as Charlemagne (also recorded under multiple names, "Charlemagne" simply meaning "Charles Magnus" or "Charles the Great").

After Charlemagne's death, Europe was split roughly into a modern political arrangement, at least for France/Italy/Germany, which came under separate rule by Charlemagne's three sons. Rather than occurring during the dark ages, this may have actually occurred early in the second millennium AD, in our BC/AD system.

There is an alternative interpretation that they actually came across from Britain too, and that the Saxons were already on the British isle before the Roman language and culture arrived. There is evidence of that too, by the way, including evidence that English developed in parallel with the three other branches of Germanic languages, and is as indigenous to Britain as the Celtic languages are.

Around the same time that the Huns invaded, we are told that the British Roman garrisons rebelled, crossed the English channel and invaded Gaul, establishing a separate Celto-Roman kingdom which appears to be a duplication of both the Gallic Empire and the Angevin Empire of the 12th century AD. (Yes, the duplications appear to be that bad, sometimes crossing many hundreds of years.)

Speaking of ancient seafaring cultures...have you ever heard of the Kingdom of Saguenay?

Jacques Cartier's first voyage to Canada explored the Gulf of St. Lawrence. His second voyage, in 1535, returned to the St. Lawrence with some natives he'd taken as guides and "translators" (very poor ones) on the previous voyage.

As Cartier approached the St. Lawrence, the natives are said to have gestured towards the west, saying "Saguenay," and indicating that the territory of the Saguenay began with about two days' travel west.

When Cartier's men landed at the native villages at the mouth of the St. Lawrence, the natives grew excited about the worked metal they saw with the French. The natives would gesture to the metal belt buckles, sword handles, or other pieces of metal, and excitedly proclaim, "Saguenay! Saguenay!"

The French, observing this, began to test the natives as to whether they were attesting to the presence of a metal-working civilization in North America. The natives were further prodded and tested, and the French became so convinced that a metal-working civilization existed further upstream somewhere, that the rest of Cartier's 2nd and 3rd voyages had the singular focus of trying to discover the Kingdom of Saguenay and loot its riches for France.

Many of you Avalonians probably have heard of the massive ancient copper mines on the upper Michigan Peninsula, removing an unbelievable amount of copper ore that is difficult, if not impossible, to attribute to any of the native tribes of the area. None of the natives are known to have worked copper except through cold hammering, yet they had lots of copper ornaments and ceremonial items. On the other hand, there have been both Egyptian/Sumerian/Hebrew-looking tablets found in the area (the Soper-Savage collection, for example, 100's of tablets which the Smithsonian dismissed as fakes) as well as evidence of Minoan smelting sites.

Here are some examples from the Soper-Savage collection:

http://scienceviews.com/photo/browse/SIA3870.jpg

https://platesofmormon.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/00000908.jpg

http://www.artbulla.com/images/elephants.jpg

http://www.misteromania.it/tavole/f0/2.jpg

http://i.pinimg.com/736x/76/4b/cd/764bcdedab241419f77992ec6e2cb2a6.jpg

There are about 3000 artifacts in the Soper-Savage collection, though the men who claimed to have discovered them have been the subject of an intense amount of ridicule, and the Smithsonian has of course declared them all fake.

They were discovered in the late 1800's, when knowledge of ancient Middle Eastern archaeology was still in its infancy, or virtually non-existent. So if they are fakes, whoever made them must have been a real scholar, to convincingly portray such motifs as we see.

I'm not prepared to draw an etymological relationship between the Saxons/Sakka and the kingdom of "Saguenay," but I'll say this: there was another kingdom described by the natives called "Norumbega," which many researchers believe was a Norse/Viking settlement, just as Normandy in France, or Norway, the key root here being "Nor-", from "North/Norse" (few languages have the "th" sound, which is often approximated by foreigners as a "t" or "s" sound).

The Viking discovery of America is placed within the same "dark age" as Charlemagne. According to the usual authorities, the Vikings suddenly stopped going to America in the centuries preceding Columbus, and weren't there anymore when the Spanish and Portuguese arrived. Sounds very convenient, right? Why would they decide to stop coming when the Norse knew that it was a temperate and resource-rich environment? They used the tall trees to build their ships. So if we move the Viking exploration of America by the same 300-year shift as we see elsewhere from the fabrication period 500-800 AD, then the Vikings would have actually been exploring North America around 1100-1400s AD, right up to the time that the Spanish arrived.

Could the Kingdom of Saguenay have been the surviving remnant of a very old Saxon/Sakka/Egyptian/Hebrew culture? I have doubts that it could ever be proven, even if true.

Apologies if I've wandered around the topic a bit, but maybe this helps flesh out how convoluted and mysterious the ancient origins of these cultures really are.

A Voice from the Mountains

28th July 2018, 21:23

It is now known that Ginsburg (Achad Haam) was not the author of the Protocols as stated in the above 1938 booklet, but rather was a zealous promoter and disseminator of its teachings among his early radicalized group called the Sons of Moses. Evidence is presented in the Introduction, seen further below, that the strategies of subversion and undermining touted in the Protocls were employed by the Elders of Zion in earlier epochs, including the time of Cromwell and the French Revolution of 1788.

Thank you for posting all of this Hervé. This is exactly the kind of historiography I'd like to dig into.

Maybe we should also consider the Priory of Sion associated with the Knights Templar and the Cathars of Languedoc.

You probably know of this already, but there was someone around the time of the revolution who proclaimed that Scottish Rite Freemasonry (which came to France thanks to one of my distant relatives, Simon Fraser) was founded by Knights Templar who had sought refuge in Scotland from the Catholic Church. The Scots of course became Presbyterians, ie Protestants along the Calvinist line.

So the link between the Protocols of Zion and the Freemasons may be through the Priory of Sion and the Knights Templar.

Hervé

28th July 2018, 21:58

ThePythonicCow

29th July 2018, 05:20

A Voice from the Mountains

29th July 2018, 07:11

It may also be worth noting that after the communist revolution in Russia which overthrew the Tsar and massacred his family, the government which then took over was overwhelmingly Jewish. So while it could be argued that the Tsar was trying to unjustly place blame on the Jews for whatever problems he was having, it can hardly be argued that they weren't actually a threat to seize power, because obviously they were, and they did.

Putin himself pointed this out in 2013, and the Jewish Telegraphic Agency made a headline out of it:

Putin: First Soviet government was mostly Jewish

June 19, 2013 11:13am

(JTA) — Russian President Vladimir Putin said that at least 80 percent of the members of the first Soviet government were Jewish.

“I thought about something just now: The decision to nationalize this library was made by the first Soviet government, whose composition was 80-85 percent Jewish,” Putin said June 13 during a visit to Moscow’s Jewish Museum and Tolerance Center.

Putin was referencing the library of Rabbi Joseph I. Schneerson, the late leader of the Chabad-Lubavitch movement. The books, which are claimed by Chabad representatives in the United States, began being moved to the museum in Moscow this month.

According to the official transcription of Putin’s speech at the museum, he went on to say that the politicians on the predominantly Jewish Soviet government “were guided by false ideological considerations and supported the arrest and repression of Jews, Russian Orthodox Christians, Muslims and members of other faiths. They grouped everyone into the same category.

“Thankfully, those ideological goggles and faulty ideological perceptions collapsed. And today, we are essentially returning these books to the Jewish community with a happy smile.”

Widely seen as the first Soviet government, the Council of People’s Commissars was formed in 1917 and comprised 16 leaders, including chairman Vladimir Lenin, foreign affairs chief Leon Trotsky and Joseph Stalin, who was in charge of the People’s Commissariat of Nationalities.

https://www.jta.org/2013/06/19/news-opinion/world/putin-first-soviet-government-was-mostly-jewish

Another gem from Russia:

Fury as Russia launches investigation into whether the last tsar Nicholas II was killed with his family as part of a 'Jewish ritual murder', at behest of Putin’s ‘confessor’

- The country's final emperor was shot with his wife and five children in 1918
- Some in Russian Orthodox Church insist he was murdered in a Jewish ritual
- Theory was dismissed in 1990s but new investigation will explore it again
- Jews have been accused of ritual murder by anti-Semites since Middle Ages

Russia is launching an investigation into whether Tsar Nicholas II and his family were killed by Jews as part of a 'ritual murder' in a move that has infuriated anti-Semitism campaigners.

Father Tikhon Shevkunov, the Orthodox bishop heading an investigatory panel, is among hardcore members of the church who claim the final Russian emperor was murdered in a Jewish ritual.

Tsar Nicholas was shot with his wife and five children by Communist Bolsheviks in 1918 after Vladimir Lenin came to power, and wild rumours about the circumstances surrounding his death have circulated ever since.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/11/28/16/46C16B5C00000578-5125545-image-a-97_1511888074393.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5125545/Russia-investigates-tsar-killed-Jewish-ritual.html

I have seen a lot of articles lately bringing up the "blood libels." I had heard of ritual murder, but never this specific term, until I saw articles complaining that modern conspiracy theories were just a resurgence of the blood libel stories, which of course these articles dismissed as paranoid and racist fantasies, etc.

I don't think a lot of these people even realize how much information they are volunteering just from their guilty consciences.

Cardillac

29th July 2018, 13:59

@Paul

couldn't agree with you more-

as I stated in a previous post on this thread it's still highly controversial as to whether the Romanovs were actually murdered even though we've been bombarded with info to the contrary-

it's an old trick: no-one is going to be searching for someone they presume is dead, most certainly not under the heinously "drammatic" events of the Ipatyev house massacre; according to scenario: shot AND bayonetted to death- they were "good and dead," right?; no way of escaping that, right?

but according to Greg Hallett in his (obviously) controversial book "Hitler Was a British Agent" (please read the book 1st before you bite my head off) the Romanovs escaped and were granted political assylum in Ireland, given new identities and were told to keep their mitts off of the vast Romanov fortune in the Swiss banks (they had the most to lose amongst European Royals because they were by far the wealthiest- so IF a royal family was involved I think it might have been the Romanovs- they had the most to lose)

as for Wikipedia: it's the encyclopedia to which anyone can contribute (!) and how many persons' entries are being redacted without their consent or foreknowledge?-

am just wondering...

Larry

Hervé

29th July 2018, 14:03

The "merchants' vision (https://www.henrymakow.com/2018/07/anthony-migchels-how-money-rules.html)" as promulgated under their better known pen-name:

https://www.henrymakow.com/upload_images/COMMIEM.jpg
(#5 ROTHSCHILD BANK. "Government" is just a proxy for Rothschilds. Absurd that an ideology that seeks to destroy democracy and enslave society should have legal status.)

See, there were some "elders" who were having troubles with the launch of WW I because they needed a beachhead before they could invade the world: the US' "Federal Reserve":

Rodman [Rockefeller] brought me the historical records from the Skull and Bone’s Crypt....
[...]
That era came to an end when one of the parents of a sacrificed boy found out about it. The other students in that year were given a choice to serve in WWI or be put in prison. They chose military service. It was a curious choice to give them as the US was not in WWI yet—in fact, no one was. It would take several more years before WWI started. The Bonesmen elders were behind schedule in getting it off the ground. Per the documents in the Rockefeller Archive much preparation had been done to ensure a world war....
[...]
From here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?26195-POLICE-STATE-How-it-came-about-in-the-US-of-A&p=270679&viewfull=1#post270679) (<---) While nations in Europe were busy killing each other, the other beachhead assault was launched:

Rothschilds/John D. Rockefeller, Sr. funded the Bolshevik Revolution (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24873-Jacob-Schiff-Ordered-Czar-Nicholas-II-s-Murder&p=260553&viewfull=1#post260553)

Per his writings in the Archives, John D. Rockefeller helped fund the Bolshevik Revolution to get the wealth of the Czars, the labor of the Russian people, and much the Southern Oil fields in Russia. That wealth changed its name from Czarist, to Russian Government owned. Ignore the names, what happened to it? Did the people of Russia get it? No. The Rockefeller Archives show that he built a private army in Russia, much like the Brown Shirt army later. His accountant said that for each 2 cents that he spent to build that Army he got a dollar back. That Army was not staying up late to knit socks to sell. They were beating people up and committing assassinations, massacres, and mayhem to terrorize the populace into submission. And he was bribing officials to get what he wanted. He was apparently famous for that in the US as well. See www.reformation.org/rockefeller-bribery.html (http://www.reformation.org/rockefeller-bribery.html) .

[...]

In exchange, Rockefeller got some of the Czars crown jewels. The Rockefeller Family stored some of them in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. I was able to prove that to the satisfaction of the Director of CIA at the time. They also got most of the profits from the Southern Russian oil fields. In about 1994, I went on a tour of them with Rodman Rockefeller so I know that for a fact. In addition, the Rockefellers charged about 18% interest on the money that they loaned Lenin for the Revolution. The way that agreement was set up made all of the loot that Lenin could seize in Russia, the Rockefellers/Rothschilds.... and most of the western world got stuck with income taxes to finance the "War Efforts."

So, there we go: there is a pudding for anyone to see and taste... meaning that there was a definite, precise recipe for its preparation and baking... it tastes very sweet to the 1% and very bitter to the remaining 99%.

Hervé

29th July 2018, 16:00

[...]

I have seen a lot of articles lately bringing up the "blood libels." I had heard of ritual murder, but never this specific term, until I saw articles complaining that modern conspiracy theories were just a resurgence of the blood libel stories, which of course these articles dismissed as paranoid and racist fantasies, etc.

I don't think a lot of these people even realize how much information they are volunteering just from their guilty consciences.
Considering the MO of "Occult Secret Societies," it is not surprising that such a ritual massacre did occur when considering the activities around the "Skull & Bones" "Frat":

The next standard ritual in the 1920’s was for them to sacrifice a young white girl who was a virgin by first gang raping her and then cutting out her heart and eating it raw. The girl captured was often the daughter of their father’s business competitor to help cut off his blood line. These were girls that they saw at cotillions in the hey days of the 1920’s when girls were no longer well chaperoned. The Bonesmen voted on who they wanted to capture, often deciding on 2-3 girls and abducting them over the course of a year. Because they wanted a sex slave to have sex with during the whole year, they went to abducting 2 and sacrificing one quickly and enslaving the other. She was then sacrificed when they got tired of her, and another girl was abducted. In about 1926, one girl escaped after a two-month long episode of being raped nightly and went to the police. Her wealthy family accompanied her. The Bonesmen, on discovering that, used their powerful contacts to call in the National Guard. The police station was set on fire and burned down with the girl, the family, and the police inside! The young men were told by their Bonesmen elders to be more careful; the locks on the crypt were redone. For a few days after that, the diary entries were morose again—some of the men had had their allowance cut because they had “gotten caught”. There was no moral embarrassment at the deed of enslaving the girl, only at the work their parents had had to go to in order to clean up the problem.

After that, the Bonesmen fathers picked who was allowed to be in charge of the policemen in the neighborhood of Yale and eventually in the whole state, just for good measure. After a Harvard girl of very wealthy parents disappeared into the crypt in about 1932, never to be seen again alive, the fathers extended their coverage to Massachusetts. By the end of WWII, they bragged that they had 24 States sewn up against possible murder reports originating from their activities that included drug running and the stealing of girls to sell into sexual slavery. Because the stealing and selling of American children as sex slaves increased, they needed more men to do the kidnapping and transporting of them. It was also helpful to have a border with another country close by to skip over, if one side got onto you.Note that one of their main criterion for sacrificial murder is the cutting of their "competitors blood line" and, in the above case, the "Bolsheviks"/"Brown Shirts" were the "National Guards"....

As for the "Jewish" part, see this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1237754&viewfull=1#post1237754) (<---)

Jayke

29th July 2018, 17:36

Venetian=Phoenician=Canaanites
Wow, have you been reading Fomenko too? :sherlock:
[...]
I would recommend Gmirkin; see this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1120106&viewfull=1#post1120106) and this one (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1131232&viewfull=1#post1131232) (<---)

So the link between the Protocols of Zion and the Freemasons may be through the Priory of Sion and the Knights Templar.I think I already have enough rabbit holes to explore to last me over a couple millennia :)

I've not read any Fomenko directly but have been exposed to his ideas through the NewEarth (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqLPTe6eEeBP10Zhu5p-0cQ) video channel on Youtube, which provides such a wealth of archeological and historiographical anomalies, that it causes the narrative of Western academia to thoroughly implode.

Joseph Farrell was asked about Fomenko's work on one of his vidchats a while back. He labelled it 'Flat Earth' (in reference to the missing centuries theory) but conceded that history has definitely been re-written by the winners, and there's definitely more to the story than is being told. That part of the hidden history would be the suppression of the pre-sumerian culture of Aratta imo. I first heard the origin story of the Scythians in the book Ancient History of Aratta-Ukraine (20,000BC-1,000CE) (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ancient-History-Aratta-Ukraine-000-BCE/dp/1505241626/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1532880973&sr=8-5&keywords=aratta) by Dr Yuri Shilov.

As for Gmirkin, why is his book so ridiculously expensive? and from listening to his interviews it strikes me as fallacious scapegoating to put the blame at Plato's feet for what transpired during the creation of the bible. I wouldn't dispute his research that the bible was created in 270BC by Jewish scholars in Alexandria, but to call Plato the grand architect is a reductionist misdirect. That would be like me blaming Jesus for the crimes of the Jesuits.

Logic according to The society of Jesus (my interpretation):
"we're allowed to assassinate and murder people because Jesus told us to...cast the first stone"

One of Plato's teachings of rhetoric is the ability to think in terms of context, 'features in proportion to the whole' or 'Analysis Situs' as Liebnitz described it. The ability to analyse the entire situation surrounding the circumstances of an event, not just the event itself. In that sense, it can be seen that Plato's laws are really just a study of cultures like Sparta, who had already been indoctrinating children to be obedient citizens long before Plato wrote his laws.

I would like to add Gmirkin's book to my reading list (if it ever comes down in price), especially to see how he handles this tidbit of information:

Chapter 6 argues that the Pentateuch was written by Jews and Samaritans invited to Alexandria ca. 270 BC by Ptolemy II Philadelphus, and additional books later at Jerusalem, without Samaritan participation. The reinvention of the Jewish nation as a theocracy closely conformed to the government in Plato’s Laws. The Hebrew Bible was an ethical national literature written to promote the new set of laws in accordance with the detailed instructions found in Plato’s Laws. Plato’s strategies for convincing the citizens their laws were ancient and divine appear to have worked brilliantly in Hellenistic Judea, where the biblical laws and literature of ca. 270 BC were soon enshrined as the ancient ancestral texts of the Jews, a perception that has continued virtually unchallenged down into modern times.

Why blame Plato when you've got the arch-villain already in your grasp. Surely the person who took Plato's teachings out of context and paid to have them weaponised should be held up to a higher scrutiny.

It was Ptolemy II who initiated the construction of the Edfu Temple (https://www.ask-aladdin.com/temples-of-egypt/edfu/) in 237BC (the Neb Heru, 'the House of Horus'), which wasn't completed until 60BC.

It's also from the Ptolemic dynasty that derive the papal bloodlines of the illuminati (http://thebridgelifeinthemix.info/history/in-profile-the-aldobrandini-lucifer-and-its-servants/#sthash.RlaIvWEz.dpbs), the Roman oligarchic nobility who operated through Venice to bring Europe under their influence.

Even Raphael in his artwork 'The School of Athens' shows that, yeah, Plato and Aristotle may take centre stage:

https://ka-perseus-images.s3.amazonaws.com/fae695cb8498e6a3ac50a22d9fd692c677968bbb.png

But it's really Ptolemy who wears the crown and holds the world in his hands.

https://ka-perseus-images.s3.amazonaws.com/1427d25f3e2e2d145de74bdb46b73ed39e608c32.jpg
https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/ap-art-history/early-europe-and-colonial-americas/renaissance-art-europe-ap/a/raphael-school-of-athens

Ptolemy (he has his back to us on the lower right), holds a sphere of the earth, next to him is Zaroaster who holds a celestial sphere. Ptolemy tried to mathematically explain the movements of the planets (which was not easy since some of them appear to move backwards!). His theory of how they all moved around the earth remained the authority until Copernicus and Kepler figured out (in the late 16th century) that the earth was not at the center of the universe, and that the planets moved in orbits the shape of ellipses not in circles. Raphael included a self-portrait of himself, standing next to Ptolemy. He looks right out at us.

If Plato is the misdirect, it's really Zoroaster and Ptolemy where our attention should be placed. The Persian/Mithraic/Zoroastrian traditions far exceed Plato in terms of their heritage for oligarchical influence on society. The oligarchs of the Babylonian bloodlines have been around millennia before Plato was even born.

Ernie Nemeth

29th July 2018, 18:11

Yes, it all boils down to off-world influence, which is a taboo subject and the subject of massive obscuration campaigns throughout the ages. That one topic, off-world controllers, brings up every other occulted subject, including secret black projects. They as a group of topics are the areas of knowledge that must never be allowed to be released to the world. The control of our world has its reigns in political, financial, xenogeneic, and scientific understandings and technologies far beyond the ken of this world.

ThePythonicCow

29th July 2018, 19:23

... this one (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1131232&viewfull=1#post1131232) (<---

So the link between the Protocols of Zion and the Freemasons may be through the Priory of Sion and the Knights Templar.I think I already have enough rabbit holes to explore to last me over a couple millennia :)
From the above link suggested by Hervé:

===

For Plato. The key to it all was to have a set of laws given by god or the gods in very ancient time. That is, that the laws of a nation were supposed to have a divine origin.
...
The rulers were supposed to review all literature and everything they had on hand and approve it or reject it, edit it, revise it for compatibility with these divine laws – the law code – and outlaw all foreign literature, books, etc… and the education was done by the state like for soldiers, starting at age 6 in Sparta. Thereby implementing a cultural isolation via censorship left to various councils constituted by members of the ruling class.

Youth will accept anything you teach them using the canonical literature and it would only take a generation or two for the citizens to forget their actual history. They would then come to believe that their laws and their way of life had been revealed to their ancestors by the gods… and that they are ruled, not by kings but by gods.

===

Thus I wonder whether some of the rabbit holes named in replies on this thread, such as the Freemasons, the Priory of Sion and the Knights Templar, might be in some way distractions.

Such named groups seem to come and go, and figuring out which of them controls, or was spawned from, or mutated into, which other of them doesn't seem to lead us out of this jungle we find ourselves in.

===

A key purpose of my opening post in this thread was to attempt a different approach to decoding our history and current power arrangements.

Perhaps it matters not so much the specific name or date or event described in some conspiratorial text, but rather perhaps there are underlying flows of force, commerce, influence, technology and geography that shape our affairs.

Perhaps the existence, since time immemorial, of multiple nations and races, scattered about this planet, has led to a "merchant class", a "people without a home", who work with each other, across boundaries, to handle trade and the means of payment for trade. Perhaps it is these people, appearing by various names, in various groups, with various leaders and intellects, who have developed the mechanisms of human civilization particularly well suited to, or valuable to, their way of life, such as debt money, usury, central banks, "gold" taken as "real money", the Uniform Commercial Code, various international NGO's - Non Governmental Organizations, treaties between nations that override national laws, large scale wars and major international and inter-religion conflicts, ...

Perhaps that was my intention in starting this thread, discussing such underlying structural flows of force, commerce, influence, technology and geography that shape our affairs, not distinguishing between the Freemasons and the Knights Templar.

Foxie Loxie

29th July 2018, 19:31

How true, Ernie, that "off world" influences seem to play a great part in world history! Our true history has been kept from us & some are now beginning to realize this very fact!

L. M. Howe says something to the effect of "trading in souls" seems to be the commerce of the Universe. Interesting concept!! There do seem to be various "agendas" at work here on the planet. I think of the "hubrids".

My conclusion is that this is why it is SO difficult for the average person to even begin to understand what is REALLY going on around us. There are games being played that we have no conception of....I would say the Q phenomenon is trying to help steer us through a very confusing time. What say ye?! :confused:

Jayke

29th July 2018, 22:26

A key purpose of my opening post in this thread was to attempt a different approach to decoding our history and current power arrangements.

Perhaps it matters not so much the specific name or date or event described in some conspiratorial text, but rather perhaps there are underlying flows of force, commerce, influence, technology and geography that shape our affairs.

Perhaps the existence, since time immemorial, of multiple nations and races, scattered about this planet, has led to a "merchant class", a "people without a home", who work with each other, across boundaries, to handle trade and the means of payment for trade. Perhaps it is these people, appearing by various names, in various groups, with various leaders and intellects, who have developed the mechanisms of human civilization particularly well suited to, or valuable to, their way of life, such as debt money, usury, central banks, "gold" taken as "real money", the Uniform Commercial Code, various international NGO's - Non Governmental Organizations, treaties between nations that override national laws, large scale wars and major international and inter-religion conflicts, ...

Perhaps that was my intention in starting this thread, discussing such underlying structural flows of force, commerce, influence, technology and geography that shape our affairs...

I notice Peter Turchin and his Cliodynamics (http://peterturchin.com) brings up few results in the Avalon search. His distinction between telluric (land) vs thalassocratic (sea) powers might be of interest to the discussion. I’m struggling to find any articles that sum it up concisely but in general, telluric (land) powers tend to be more free-roaming, nomadic, less static. Like the Scythians who were a land power, they had the entire Eurasian steppe to migrate across, if they need more food, more resources, they can just jump on a horse and migrate, they can raise cattle and follow the herd, which leads to greater freedom of movement. It leads to a more peace loving culture. It’s why cows were considered sacred in the vedas.

The thalassocratic (sea) powers on the other hand require ports to dock, grain farming infrastructure to keep the boats supplied, defensive infrastructure around the farms and docks to secure them from land threats. To maintain the farms and infrastructure requires hard work and menial effort, so, often slaves are brought in for the upkeep; slaves to row the boats, slaves to do the hard graft or the heavy lifting.

As a result Thalassocratic empires tend to be more innovative and technological, but also lean towards slave-holding and oligarchy.

Life on the open seas can be a brutal existence, it creates a cut throat environment, based on the need for pillage and plunder for survival, which definitely has an impact on the psychology of the sailors. Transfer that cut-throat psychology into the dynamics of various social programs, and well, you see the damage the skull-and-bones pirates of the East India Trading Company have wrought on world affairs today.

Cliodynamics does start to look awfully like Vedic yuga cycles when you get deeper into it though. How metaphysical can we go before it’s considered off topic? I’m currently reading the book ‘Cyclical Time and Ismaili Gnosis’ by Henry Corbin; which is about the pre-Zoroastrian Persians, the median magi and their theology of Mizraism. They understood this stuff in terms of some hyper-luminal-geometry, the likes of which I’ve never heard so eloquently before.

A Voice from the Mountains

29th July 2018, 23:18

Youth will accept anything you teach them using the canonical literature and it would only take a generation or two for the citizens to forget their actual history. They would then come to believe that their laws and their way of life had been revealed to their ancestors by the gods… and that they are ruled, not by kings but by gods.

That's a good point, that any point in history is only a generation or two away from forgetting everything that just happened previously, if the propaganda is executed efficiently enough.

Thus I wonder whether some of the rabbit holes named in replies on this thread, such as the Freemasons, the Priory of Sion and the Knights Templar, might be in some way distractions.

Such named groups seem to come and go, and figuring out which of them controls, or was spawned from, or mutated into, which other of them doesn't seem to lead us out of this jungle we find ourselves in.

It's really difficult to say how helpful information would be until it's actually explored and analyzed somewhere in full. That's what historians are for anyway, whether it ends up being useful or not. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't, but until they dig it up and flesh it out it's impossible to say what we'll learn. I pick up little bits and pieces around here all the time that make the "big picture" that much more complete, but which by themselves are rather trivial and insignificant. Without the relevant context they would remain trivial and insignificant.

Perhaps the existence, since time immemorial, of multiple nations and races, scattered about this planet, has led to a "merchant class", a "people without a home", who work with each other, across boundaries, to handle trade and the means of payment for trade. Perhaps it is these people, appearing by various names, in various groups, with various leaders and intellects, who have developed the mechanisms of human civilization particularly well suited to, or valuable to, their way of life, such as debt money, usury, central banks, "gold" taken as "real money", the Uniform Commercial Code, various international NGO's - Non Governmental Organizations, treaties between nations that override national laws, large scale wars and major international and inter-religion conflicts, ...

There's absolutely something to that. And I also suspect what Ernie is saying is true, that ultimately this goes back to non-human influence in some form. I hesitate to say there are clearly two sides which are "good" and "evil," but I think there is some core of truth to that, despite all the shades of gray we could get into.

My interest in all of this is figuring out who were the "good guys" and "bad guys" throughout history. And I know this is a gross oversimplification of "teams," but it's a useful framework. How societies treated children is a good litmus test, for example. The number of ancient societies which sacrificed children is staggering and I cannot believe it's by coincidence. Somehow these cults were organized across the world.

In order to contextualize these international power-brokers throughout history, and how much relative power and influence they've had in different times and places, we have to compare and contrast them to opposing forces working against them, which have also been apparent throughout history. These are the "two sides" I tend to over-simplify things into, based perhaps most explicitly on the child sacrifice issue I mentioned previously. Graham Hancock even notices this same contrasting set of values in the Viracocha myths from South America. Those people also sacrificed people until people in white robes showed up by sea and taught them to stop doing that.

As far as the history surrounding Plato, I want to throw this data in which comes from Fomenko:

The Scaligerian chronology is very fond of the renaissance motif, appealing to the archetypal recurrence of the Classical Age.

The ancient Plato is supposed to have been the founding father of Platonism. His teaching allegedly falls into oblivion for centuries to come, and is revived by the famous Neoplatonist Plotinus, allegedly in 205-270 A.D. The similarity of his name to that of his teacher is purely accidental, of course. Then Neoplatonism perishes as well, in order to be revived again in the XV century A.D. by another famous Platonist -- Gemisto Pleton, whose name is also identical to that of his teacher as a result of sheer coincidence. [Note that "Plato" is the English spelling; in French the name is spelled Platon, for example, so there is a natural variation here across nations which continues to exist to this day. -- Voice] The mediaeval Pleton is supposed to have revived the "ancient" Platonism, having been an avid advocate of "the ancient sage Plato." Furthermore, it is only in the XV century that Plato's manuscript was unearthed ([247], pages 143-147). This is precisely the epoch of Gemisto Pleton.

Pleton founds "Pleton's Academy" in Florence in the image of the "ancient" Plato's Academy ([247]). A. A. Vasiliev writes that "His [Pleton's -- A.F.] sojourn in Florence... had been one of the most important periods for Italy when it was importing the ancient Greek science, and Plato's philosophy in particular" ([675], Volume 3, Pt. 2; [120]).

Both Plato and Pleton write Utopian works. Gemisto Pleton is reported to have been the author of the famous Tractate on the Laws, which sadly failed to reach us in its entirety. However, the full text of Plato's tractate by the same title did. Pleton, who lived in the XV century, also suggests the construction of an ideal state, with his programme being extremely close to Plato's. Plotin, who had allegedly lived in 205-270 A.D., is yet another one to have hoped the Emperor would aid the foundation of the city of Platonopolis in Campagna (Italy again), where he had planned to introduce communal aristocratic institutions à la Plato. ([122], Volume 4, pages 394-397).

We also find out that the genesis of "ancient" Greek history can be traced to Florence of the alleged XIV century. "The Strozzi and the Medici... have been philhellenes, they have invested their funds into... Greek literary studies... Cosimo [de Medici] conceived of the plan to revive the academy of Plato in Arno" ([195], page 330). The head of this undertaking was Pleton, the double of the "ancient" Plato in both name and occupation (see Chron1, Chapter 1). It is assumed that the propagation of the "ancient" Greek literature across Europe started in Florence.

The numbers in brackets are keys to Fomenko's massive 1500+ bibliography that he uses consistently throughout the Chronology series. Most of the works he cites aren't in English but his bibliography is available online.

According to this, what was promoted in Plato's name was really being pushed by the Medicis from Renaissance Italy, which was built on exactly the kind of international trade power you are talking about, Paul, and which I am naturally wary of as some kind of proto-NWO framework. The Holy Roman Empire itself could be seen as something like an early version of the European Union.

At the same time, the HRE persecuted the Cathars/Knights Templar, and also accused them of Satanic worship. Yet the Templar are also said to have went into hiding and gave birth to Scottish Rite Freemasonry. So who are the good guys and bad guys in this? As you say, there is a lot of morphing and co-opting of movements going on. For that reason Freemasonry could have actually been a positive thing in certain times and places, combatting Catholic oppression, but in other times and places (the French Revolution comes to mind) became a force for Jacobinism (proto-Marxism), mob rule, and evil.

Knowing exactly who is who at which point in time also becomes relevant when you consider, for example, that George Washington was a Freemason. What does that mean about George Washington? Well it depends on the specific iteration of Freemasonry we are talking about. Washington himself said in a letter that he was well aware that Jacobins, Illuminati, and Democrats were infiltrating the Freemasonic lodges to try to undermine the American Republic, but that as of yet it was of little consequence in America compared to what was going on in France. So despite him being a Freemason, I don't believe he was involved in this international order, because of all of the surrounding context.

ThePythonicCow

30th July 2018, 01:40

Justplain

30th July 2018, 01:52

ThePythonicCow

30th July 2018, 01:56

His [Peter Turchin's (http://peterturchin.com)] distinction between telluric (land) vs thalassocratic (sea) powers might be of interest to the discussion.
That could be quite interesting, yes.

For thousands of years, the least expensive means to move goods long distances was by water.

Thus the "merchant class" would have developed to a greater degree using river, sea, and eventually ocean going trade.

Notice for example that, in their time, the Phoenicians, Venetians, Spanish, Dutch, French, British and now Americans have gained great powers from their sea or ocean going trading and associated development of colonies and outposts, often along coast lines of foreign lands that provided more trade opportunities.

Only now, such as with the potential completion of the Belt Road Initiative, with rail and pipeline connecting the Eurasian-African landmass, is this balance of power shifting, from the ocean favoring merchants, to those controlling the great mineral resources of the major land masses, most especially the Eurasian-African landmass.

The balance of power is shifting to those with access to the Eurasian-African landmass, such as the Asian powers China, Russia, and Iran. Though India is also on the Asian continent, it is somewhat isolated from the rest of Asia by the Himalayan mountains, and has been somewhat more exposed to the colonization of the British Empire, due to its long coastline on the Indian Ocean, so India is not yet so well integrated with this shifting power base.

What will matter for the coming century is not the cost of shipping across the surface of this planet earth, but rather the availability of mineral resources, to initiate colonization and mining of the solar system. Thus central Asia is becoming a key nexus of power, and naval power is declining in importance.

A great shift is occurring, unlike any we've seen in a long, long time.

ThePythonicCow

30th July 2018, 02:49

Paul, you mention at the end of the OP, that you see a light at the end of the tunnel, that the conditions of civilization are changing so radically that the old 'traders without a nation' may finally be softening from the 'protocols of zion'. Can you share with us what makes you believe this is occuring?

Two things come to mind that might be shifting power away from the merchants and bankers of zion:

The first thing is what I had in mind when I wrote that comment, in the opening post (OP). Rapid changes in the technologies of communication, the handling of international monetary transactions, and global information sharing are changing our world, from collection of somewhat separate nations, connected by merchants and bankers, to a more unified world, directly communicating and trading (at least the monetary part) with each other globally.
The second thing is what I just wrote in my previous post above, that power is shifting from ocean going merchants, to land based miners. The key limiting factor over this century will be the cost and availability of the various minerals needed to build the first generation of the equipment to colonize and mine the solar system.

A Voice from the Mountains

30th July 2018, 04:35

Knowing exactly who is who at which point in time also becomes relevant when you consider, for example, that George Washington was a Freemason. What does that mean about George Washington?
I would guess that Washington being a Freemason meant that he was knowingly and willingly working with "those without a home", the "merchant class".

That's what's interesting about taking that side glance off at the American Freemasons of that period, because even though there was definitely some masonic influence in the founding of this country, our founders enacted policies in direct opposition to what the masonic Jacobins were doing in France. So if they were pushing the same agenda, it came out in two completely different ways somehow. And that's what's makes this interesting.

The French Revolution would have produced a situation similar to England's today if they had stopped at the imposition of a constitution on the king, but they didn't. After they got their constitution, the Jacobins used a masonic lodge in Paris to organize a bunch of mob rioting until they create enough paranoia and hostility against the king to have him and the queen executed. The Declaration of the Rights of Man is a proto-Marxist document because it gives the government priority over individual rights, ie the old excuse of acting in public interest when taking away citizens' rights. Our Declaration of Independence put the rights of the individual as sacrosanct, and inalienable. That is the major philosophical difference, a top-down versus bottom-up idea of where power comes from, that defines the difference between what the French Freemasons accomplished, and what happened in America.

Put in that context, it makes sense that Washington was telling the truth in his correspondence when he wrote that he was aware of Jacobin influence in America, along with Illuminati and Democrats (which they saw as promoting mob rule), but that they weren't a dominating force in American Freemasonry. Washington's presidency (and the presidency in general) is more closely modeled on the British monarchy and it's legislature and courts, than it is the chaos that the Jacobins created in France. So whereas our president is our power-restricted version of a king, the Jacobins in France were cutting the head off of their king and creating elaborate bureaucracy instead. That's also a major difference.

It's not unthinkable that American Freemasonic lodges had a different culture by that time than the lodges of France. We had direct immigration from Scotland, probably moreso than France of that period, and the wilderness they were taming creating a much different political atmosphere than metropolitan France.

Thus would Washington have made sure there was room in his administration, as first President of the United States, for one of the premier "central bankers" of his time, Alexander Hamilton.

From how that decision is usually recounted, it wasn't something that he decided lightly, as he had Thomas Jefferson as his Secretary of State vehemently arguing against it and it was causing an embarrassing drama in his cabinet. I think Washington wanted an empire, though (he proudly referred to New York as the future seat of American empire), and he wasn't ashamed to enact policies to help establish that. Jefferson was not seeking an empire and was deeply divided even over the Louisiana Purchase, which should have been a no-brainer. This is more in line with what most of the states wanted: powerful state governments and a weak federal government.

If you look at Washington's biography and take him as an individual, he was very ambitious, always seeking public glory though he acted like he wasn't, and had a terrible temper. He also committed some cruel acts while he was a young military officer, violating international military custom and angering the French. He hadn't been born into wealth but married into it and ruthlessly sought ways to make a name for himself ever since then. So he probably would have approved the same policies regardless of being affiliated with the Freemasons or not. That's just who Washington was as a person, and I see it as more fascistic than Marxist or masonic.

Thus would Washington have been comfortable with signing and supporting a US Constitution that places international treaties above local or national law.

The limits of federal supremacy weren't clearly established that early on. If you look at the Virginia and Kentucky resolutions of 1798 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky_and_Virginia_Resolutions), which were written by Madison and Jefferson, they were asserting what would seem like an enormous expansion of states' rights to us today. But that was still their understanding back then, that the states were supreme in everything that wasn't explicitly stated otherwise in the Constitution.

The Treaty Clause enables the federal government to agree to international treaties that carry the weight of federal law in the US. What did the weight of federal law mean in George Washington's era? According to the philosophy agreed upon by most of the states, and re-asserted by Jefferson and Madison in 1798, the limits of federal law are clearly circumscribed within the Constitution, and anything beyond that is at the discretion of the states per the 10th Amendment. So, for example, the Alien and Sedition Act that the Adams administration passed, making it illegal to criticize the government or assemble in groups to protest, was outside of federal authority, even in direct contravention to it, and the states themselves could ignore the law or legally nullify it within their own borders. It took that Civil War to finally convince the states that the Federal Government was the final authority, but then again you still see states passing marijuana laws against federal law today.

Washington definitely wanted a strong federal government, but he was still constrained by a Constitution that stood for decentralization in the eyes of most of its signers, whereas the masons in France approved a document that very clearly established a supremacy of government. So there are still these differences that have to be resolved, and there can't be a quick and easy equivalency drawn between the Freemasons in France and the Freemasons in America in the late 18th century.

A Voice from the Mountains

30th July 2018, 04:46

Jad

30th July 2018, 07:14

Perhaps it matters not so much the specific name or date or event described in some conspiratorial text, but rather perhaps there are underlying flows of force, commerce, influence, technology and geography that shape our affairs.

Perhaps the existence, since time immemorial, of multiple nations and races, scattered about this planet, has led to a "merchant class", a "people without a home", who work with each other, across boundaries, to handle trade and the means of payment for trade. Perhaps it is these people, appearing by various names, in various groups, with various leaders and intellects, who have developed the mechanisms of human civilization particularly well suited to, or valuable to, their way of life, such as debt money, usury, central banks, "gold" taken as "real money", the Uniform Commercial Code, various international NGO's - Non Governmental Organizations, treaties between nations that override national laws, large scale wars and major international and inter-religion conflicts, ...

Perhaps that was my intention in starting this thread, discussing such underlying structural flows of force, commerce, influence, technology and geography that shape our affairs, not distinguishing between the Freemasons and the Knights Templar.

I know this may sound silly, but I once read a book (poker without cards) and it shows pirates in a different light. In a way they were the merchants of the sea, people without a home, and they had Phoenicians/Babylonian ties. They created colonies, trade and monetary systems, and maritime laws to manage everything.
I feel the way pirates have been portrayed in history as barbaric, pillaging, and savage is just a smokescreen on how prolific and smart and calculating they actually were.

Justplain

30th July 2018, 07:47

I know this may sound silly, but I once read a book (poker without cards) and it shows pirates in a different light. In a way they were the merchants of the sea, people without a home, and they had Phoenicians/Babylonian ties. They created colonies, trade and monetary systems, and maritime laws to manage everything.
I feel the way pirates have been portrayed in history as barbaric, pillaging, and savage is just a smokescreen on how prolific and smart and calculating they actually were.

Pirates are an interesting case. The skull and crossbones associated with piracy is actually a masonic symbol, used to represent the 'great equalizer: death'. On 'Black' Friday, October 13, 1307, pope clement excommunicated the knights templar (for basically becoming too wealthy and powerful). The knights templar were warrior monks, from the crusades, and they had a standing navy. After black friday most, if not all, of that navy disappeared, likely becoming 'pirates'. This fact ties into the 'sea-faring traders without a home' theme of this thread, since the templars, before their demise, were savy bankers whom most European royalty owed a great deal of money. The king of france, and spain i believe, were backers of the black friday excommunication, because it releived them of having to pay a lot of debt.

ThePythonicCow

30th July 2018, 08:27

Notice for example that, in their time, the Phoenicians, Venetians, Spanish, Dutch, French, British and now Americans have gained great powers from their sea or ocean going trading and associated development of colonies and outposts, often along coast lines of foreign lands that provided more trade opportunities.

And the Vikings, Chinese, and Japanese. I don't think there is a common ideology underlying all of these seagoing adventures though, unless it's pure ambition.
I agree - apparently not a common ideology underlying all of these.

But I do see a common ideology, and connected history and ancestry, underlying at least the Venetians, Spanish, Dutch, French, British and now Americans.

I am saying: Not all A are B, but those in B are in, or descend from, those in A, where A is "merchants over water", and B is "those described in the Elders of the Zion document".

One difference may be that the Vikings, Chinese, and Japanese had a "home", a national base.

The money lenders in Venice and other European nations a few centuries ago were not the locals. They were not those who identified, for generations back, as Italian, Spanish, Dutch, or whatever. Rather they were "without a home", a separate merchant class, often with ancestry that included Ashkenazi Jews.

Not all naval merchants became thus, but these particular ones did, and are still with us, as merchants, money lenders, and other positions of influence useful to their purposes.

Being the merchants and money lenders, without a home nation, was part of their heritage that played a critical role in shaping their culture and the manner of their influence on human civilization.

ThePythonicCow

30th July 2018, 08:36

Our Declaration of Independence put the rights of the individual as sacrosanct, and inalienable.
But our (US) Constitution is less explicit about this, specifically granting certain rights in the first ten amendments (the "Bill of Rights") rather than presuming all individual rights are sacrosanct and inalienable, and providing a basis for what would turn into a far more tyrannical government, over the subsequent two centuries, rather as might have been expected of a "democracy."

It is the Constitution, not the Declaration of Independence, that purports to be legally binding on our current US federal government, and those legal constraints are honored more in the breach as time progresses.

Eagle Eye

30th July 2018, 15:48

Coincidence ?

https://www.traditioninaction.org/History/HistImages/G_009_OldNewBabel.jpg

A Voice from the Mountains

30th July 2018, 16:59

And the Vikings, Chinese, and Japanese. I don't think there is a common ideology underlying all of these seagoing adventures though, unless it's pure ambition
I agree - apparently not a common ideology underlying all of these.

But I do see a common ideology, and connected history and ancestry, underlying at least the Venetians, Spanish, Dutch, French, British and now Americans.

I am saying: Not all A are B, but those in B are in, or descend from, those in A, where A is "merchants over water", and B is "those described in the Elders of the Zion document".

Fair enough, and you could probably even throw in the Silk Road and the overland African slave trade into the Middle East for good measure.

Being the merchants and money lenders, without a home nation, was part of their heritage that played a critical role in shaping their culture and the manner of their influence on human civilization.

I see what you're trying to emphasize. It's a logical explanation.

Our Declaration of Independence put the rights of the individual as sacrosanct, and inalienable.
But our (US) Constitution is less explicit about this, specifically granting certain rights in the first ten amendments (the "Bill of Rights") rather than presuming all individual rights are sacrosanct and inalienable, and providing a basis for what would turn into a far more tyrannical government, over the subsequent two centuries, rather as might have been expected of a "democracy."

It is the Constitution, not the Declaration of Independence, that purports to be legally binding on our current US federal government, and those legal constraints are honored more in the breach as time progresses.

You're right that the Constitution could only be ratified after its language had been watered down to being so vague about the role of individual rights and state rights that federal supremacists would later have room to maneuver their manipulative arguments. That's why historians and originalists are always pointing back to the debates in which these things were decided, because it's clear that there was an intention to sabotage the common understanding of the agreement from the very beginning.

There were lots of people back when it was ratified who objected to the Bill of Rights on the exact grounds you mention, that they shouldn't have to explicitly enumerate rights and give the impression that the government was giving permission for things it had no authority to.

Speaking of merchants and trade by sea, that's where New England and New York were making all of their big money even in colonial days. In fact let's take it back one further. Did you know that Cotton Mather, the preacher in charge during the Witch Trials, preferred to be called rabbi in private? The Puritans were legalistic religious zealots after a Talmudic tradition. That should tell you just about everything you need to know about the founding of the Yankee North and why they carried on the way that they did back then. Fortunately they were still enough of a minority at the time of the Constitution's ratification that we didn't do anything as radical as the French, and were still able to maintain most of our Anglo-Saxon legal traditions intact from the Magna Carta.

A Voice from the Mountains

30th July 2018, 17:26

I just came across this and wasn’t sure where to put it. If there’s a better place for it, please move it. It’s President Nixon and Billy Graham discussing Israeli and the Zionist agenda being pushed in the US at that time, and the backlash it was liable to cause.

xvFgKCRL-fQ

“You know, it's unfortunate," Nixon says. "But this has happened to the Jews. It happened in Spain, it happened in Germany, it's happening -- and now it's going to happen in America if these people don't start behaving it may be they have a death wish. You know that's been the problem with our Jewish friends for centuries."

After Nixon talks about behavior, Graham says, "The Bible talks about two kinds of Jews. One is called the synagogue of Satan, they're the ones putting out pornographic literature, they're the ones putting out these obscene films."

Graham goes on to say that his wife had already cancelled their subscriptions to Time and Newsweek because of the garbage they were publishing. This was in the 1970’s. It looks like a very frank and revealing conversation from Nixon.

ThePythonicCow

30th July 2018, 18:43

Speaking of merchants and trade by sea, that's where New England and New York were making all of their big money even in colonial days. In fact let's take it back one further. Did you know that Cotton Mather, the preacher in charge during the Witch Trials, preferred to be called rabbi in private? The Puritans were legalistic religious zealots after a Talmudic tradition.
Miles Mathis frequently traces portions of the ancestry of key Zionist/Jewish families in the United States back to Cotton Mather and others involved in the Salem Witchcraft Trials of 1692-93, in Salem Massachusetts, which is on the Atlantic coast just north of Boston.

I grew up in Salem, New York, which is a couple hundred miles west of Salem, Massachusetts. Even as a child, I knew that the Salem I lived in was better known, outside of our local area, as being not the Salem of those witchcraft trials. We were the other Salem.

That should tell you just about everything you need to know about the founding of the Yankee North and why they carried on the way that they did back then.
Aha - I should have noticed this long ago - but your comments here just brought this to my mind for the first time. Some of the people in the northern states were known as Yankee Traders (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee_traders), which Wikipedia describes by saying:

Yankee traders is a term used historically to refer to American merchants and drug smugglers, particularly around the turn of the 19th century. Many of the Yankee traders came from Boston or other New England ports — hence the appellation "Yankee". They were reputed to be particularly shrewd and independent.
If that's not a genteel way of describing the sea going Zionist merchants discussed in this thread, then I'll be a monkey's uncle.

Graham goes on to say that his wife had already cancelled their subscriptions to Time and Newsweek because of the garbage they were publishing.
More than once, I've wished that I had subscriptions to Time and Newsweek ... just so that I could have the pleasure of sending them a nasty cancellation letter.

But, alas, I've never been a subscriber to them that I can recall now.

Cardillac

30th July 2018, 18:43

Lordy!- I'm just learning so much from the comments on this absolutely riveting thread- many thanks to all who are posting such highly researched, incredibly valuable info-

Avalon at its best-

Larry :-)

A Voice from the Mountains

30th July 2018, 19:07

Aha - I should have noticed this long ago - but your comments here just brought this to my mind for the first time. Some of the people in the northern states were known as Yankee Traders (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee_traders), which Wikipedia describes by saying:

Yankee traders is a term used historically to refer to American merchants and drug smugglers, particularly around the turn of the 19th century. Many of the Yankee traders came from Boston or other New England ports — hence the appellation "Yankee". They were reputed to be particularly shrewd and independent.
If that's not a genteel way of describing the sea going Zionist merchants discussed in this thread, then I'll be a monkey's uncle.

They were the slave traders, too.

Virginia, despite being a slave state, was the first to ban the importation of slaves, if I remember correctly. Most of the money being made from the slave trade was going to New England, and about half of the slave traders were Jewish. About half of slave-owners in the South were also Jewish, though slave-owners only made up something like 3% of the general population in the South (this only counts heads of household who actually legally possessed slaves, not other family members who also benefitted from the labor).

The ironic thing about those Yankees was, though they had no problem bringing tens of thousands of slaves into the South, they didn't want blacks living amongst them in the North. In the South, even though slavery existed, blacks and whites usually lived together because of this arrangement, even within the same house. Racial mixing was only a taboo when it came to making babies, not for social interactions. Blacks and whites went to the same churches, etc. When Civil War history is taught, it's taught that the Yankees didn't want the institution of slavery expanded into the West. That's not entirely accurate. They didn't want black people in the West. Most Northerners were uninterested in interfering with the institution of slavery, but nearly all of them were offended by the idea of living among black people. I could go on and on about manipulation of Civil War history but that's another thread. The South was run by some evil aristocrats styling themselves after feudal lords, but they weren't just a bunch of WASPs, though the WASPs seem to have taken all of the blame.

Btw, this is a great institution for preserving Southern culture and our side of the story, warts and all: The Abbeville Institute (https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/).

Valerie Villars

30th July 2018, 19:20

Well Voice, not ALL slave owners were WASPS. My family came to New Orleans in 1718. And Bienville and Iberville are uncles of mine. Claude Joseph Villars Dubreuil was very french and very Catholic.

I know quite a bit of that history. And Claude liked his slaves so much that he had a relationship with one, who he later freed. She was a grandmother to Henriette Delisle, who is up for sainthood in the Catholic church.

Just adding that for accuracy's sake. Carry on.

A Voice from the Mountains

30th July 2018, 20:08

Well Voice, not ALL slave owners were WASPS.

That was my point. WASPs are always the stereotypical Southern slave owners in all popular depictions and never anyone else. You say your ancestors were French Catholic. Like I said in my post, Jewish families also owned a very disproportional number of slaves, and made up almost half of the slave traders from the Yankee North.

Cherokee Indians and free blacks also held slaves and owned plantations, and the first human beings outright sold in Jamestown were Irish. The Irish were ruthlessly genocided by the English, and many of them were sent as slaves to the Caribbean before the African slave trade really exploded.

My family came to New Orleans in 1718. And Bienville and Iberville are uncles of mine. Claude Joseph Villars Dubreuil was very french and very Catholic.

You would probably like reading the Abbeville Institute's articles too then. They just published an article recently about how popular early Yankee portrayals of New Orleans were near universally detested in New Orleans itself.

Valerie Villars

30th July 2018, 20:14

Thanks for clarifying. I'll take a look at the Abbeville Institute articles. :bigsmile:

Cardillac

30th July 2018, 21:15

@Valerie

I don't doubt your info for a second- but we must yet then focus on the shenanigans of the Vatican and it's dubious choices of beatification (as if that really means anything)-

if one has read David McGowan's hair-rasing book "Programmed to Kill" according to a Ukrainian historian after long correspondence with the royal houses of Europe discovered that Joan of Arc was neither a peasant girl nor was she burned at the stake; she was royalty and died at the age of 50-

whenever anyone was brought to the pyre they were hooded and remained so during the entire roasting process; couldv'e been anyone-

let alone the 'beatified' fraud known as Mother Theresa; I knew someone who worked for her and she said the MSM portrayed her completely the opposite of the way she really was; my commentaries were on a previous thread on this subject and of course had hot coals reaped on my head probably because this fraud was beatified by the Vatican so people obviously believe the despicable Vatican befere they believe personal, boots on the ground experiences-

so if your ancestor is up for beatification and granted I hardly think that would make your day; you're much too intelligent to be influenced by this s++t;

be well!

Larry

Valerie Villars

30th July 2018, 21:39

Larry, I only bought it up in the context of showing how Catholic and not WASP many southern slave owners were. Voice clarified his stance.

I have zero faith in "the church", even though I was brought up Catholic. And I do think the Catholic church is trying to give her saint hood because she is partly african american and it's just another example of them conditioning people. "Oh, look how progressive the church is, they are cannonizing an african american. They really do care about the poor and downtrodden" sort of nonsense. It's a publicity stunt.

Henriette and I had a common ancestor, Claude Joseph. I am french and spanish creole, as the true meaning of creole was a person of french or spanish descent who was born in the new colony, New Orleans. Originally it did not mean of african american descent. The term was hijacked.

As for Joan of Arc, damn, there goes the last of my heroes. Another belief smashed to smithereens. :smash: I actually have a beautiful drawing of her above my dresser. I am most interested in that book and will look it up.

And that was a nice comment about my intelligence. Sometimes, especially stacked against the great minds on this forum, I feel like a dummy. :bowing:

Hervé

30th July 2018, 21:46

The following, from Jonas E. Alexis, should cast some light on these "traders":

For example, we have Holocaust museums in the Western world dedicated to those who have died in Nazi Germany, but we have not a single Holocaust museum dedicated to the peasants in Soviet Russia, to the Christians who were massacred during the Armenian genocide, to the Chinese who died in World War II, to the precious people who lost their lives in the Middle East, etc.

In other words, the Soviets, the Christians, the Armenian, the Chinese, the Iraqis, are just an afterthought in the Zionist scheme of things.
We also have Civil Rights museums.[20] (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/#_ftn20) How many museums do we have for the European people who got sold into slavery in Africa and other parts of the world?

By the way, the word slavery itself came from the Slav, and it found its place in our language precisely because the Slavic people were being sold into slavery by other Europeans for no less than six centuries.[21] (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/#_ftn21)
In order to be fair and honest, those issues need to be discussed rationally, historically, and with a love for the truth. And this is where we will pick up in the next two articles.

Jonas E. Alexis (http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/alexis/) If one is inclined to learn some bare facts on the slave trades, here are John E. Alexis three part article:
The Problem of Slavery in Western Culture (Part I) (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/04/18/the-problem-of-slavery-in-western-culture-part-i/)

Jewish Slavery in Western Culture (Part II) (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/04/22/jewish-slavery-in-western-culture-part-ii/)

Jewish Slavery in Western Culture (Part III) (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/05/12/jewish-slavery-in-western-culture-part-iii/)

... guess who were, for the most part, the owners and financiers maintaining a fleet of slaves traders...
(http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/05/12/jewish-slavery-in-western-culture-part-iii/)

Cardillac

30th July 2018, 22:21

@Valerie

"Sometimes, especially stacked against the great minds on this forum, I feel like a dummy"

you're anything but; I'm much more of a dummy than you are- but am just trying to learn and because of your incredibly inciteful, educated comments I've learned a lot from you-

please keep up your incredible research and work-

Larry :-)

Valerie Villars

30th July 2018, 22:28

:heart::sun::heart:

Foxie Loxie

30th July 2018, 23:17

Thanks, Herve! Can always count on you to "straighten us out"!! :ROFL:

Val...That's why we're members of Avalon...to learn!! ;) I have SO appreciated the mature members who have guided me along in this process! :flower:

shaberon

31st July 2018, 03:09

On England becoming Master of the Sea, this mostly owes to the privateer (government-sanctioned pirate) Francis Drake, who sacked a Spanish treasure train in Panama; not that the stuff was legitimately earned by the Spaniards.

The Venetian juggernaut explains more of the historical riddle than anything. This is the only country that never fell to rebellions or invaders thanks to the "silver tongue". And they had ambassadors in every country, unlike anyone else. Even the poet Chaucer was aware of this; Dante placed them in the sixth circle of hell. So they had this pillar of Oligarchic wealth which founded the banking centers of Antwerp, Brussels, Amsterdam, and then Bank of England. Dutch Empire was by far the wealthiest until England or Britain arose. So there's a bit of "international traders", who no longer needed their original country and it ceased in the early 1800s.

Their main rivals or enemies were the Jesuits--not themselves an ancient group, however, being given the keys to the kingdom of the Catholic church meant they had all the wealth and power associated with the church.

International Jewry was never a power structure of any kind until similarly being allowed into the Christian royal courts. Rothschild's initial success was in renting out Hessian mercenaries.

"Priory of Zion" was a hoax planted in a Parisian library in 1956 by Pierre Plantard.

It is correct that Knights Templar continued after their persecution--in the form called Knights of St. John of Portugal. Their last pontiff was King John VI--assassinated by Jesuits with the aquetta di Napoli, which is a form of arsenic usually dosed in distilled pork fat. Templars were an anti-Catholic band of Gnostics, nothing to do with Judaism. However, the Knights Hospitallers continued to what we call Knights of Malta, which is still almost a country of its own.

Chevalier Ramsay once made a speech with no supporting evidence telling some of the Freemasons that they were Templars. From that point, Jesuits tampered with the system heavily.

The 1776-era consisted of a European triple entente, mainly steered by Marie Antoinette if I recall correctly, in an attempt to unite France--Austria--Russia against the nascent "international banking power", and the American colonies were on board with this. The proximal cause of the American Revolution was in King George of England becoming heavily indebted to the Bank. He asked Benjamin Franklin how the colonies ran their poor houses--but they hadn't any. Franklin stated that the colonies issued their own "scrips", or currency that did not come from a bank, and unemployment was pretty much unheard of. So England needed to "nick a bit of cutter" at that point.

Marquis de Lafayette, one of the most heavily-decorated Masons in the Egyptian-style rite, was one of the main bastions of liberty for both France and America. He plainly stated the Jesuits has started "most" of the wars in Europe. Another one was Thomas Paine. No government at the time cared about the disbanded Bavarian Illuminati, but they were utterly terrified of good ol' Tom Paine.

The confusing Anti-Masonic political party came up in 1801, based from misunderstandings of the Illuminati. This scare tactic no longer has the backbone to operate by name, but it has spawned a hefty spew of literature and school of thought. There is corruption in Masonry, but what it does not have is any kind of central power, unlike Jesuits and governments. If we can recognize there are plenty of Jews who, for example, believe in things like Jews Against Zionism, then Masonry is similar. It has everyone from Propaganda Due or P2--who was very corrupt and politically motivated--to the ones who revolt against central banking and Jesuitry. Masonic paranoia is a bit like finding embezzlement in the United Way and concluding that charity needs to be stopped.

This is why it seems to me that Masonry, Templars, and Jews, are more or less red herrings, whereas the actual tyrants with well over a millenium of contunuity of power are better described as Jesuit-style Catholics, Venetians who would have to be renamed International Banking Oligarchy, and Hospitallers--Knights of Malta, although it is difficult to tell what the latter actually do. The main resistance was Byzantium which mostly moved to Moscow, due to Venice assisting the Turks to overwhelm it. Moscow has dumped most of its U. S. Treasury holdings, but if you look at the top ten holders, you see China and Japan, fairly obvious, Switzerland, who might not be too surprising unless you wonder why a country with no resources could be particularly wealthy, and also Belgium and Luxemburg. The American people are heavily indebted to Luxemburg, because...I'm not really sure...Another resistance was with the Medicis, who were defeated, and their pillar of wealth was donated to the state of Tuscany, not to a central bank.

New American Money such as Morgan and Rockefeller were hated by the Knickerbockers or Old Money such as Astor, but, more or less contemporaneous with the Fabian Society, took their place in the dirty game. This was cemented in place by the Federal Reserve and all the other programs which erased America and replaced it with a shill or a long arm of the International Monetary Fund.

ThePythonicCow

31st July 2018, 03:51

This is why it seems to me that Masonry, Templars, and Jews, are more or less red herrings, whereas the actual tyrants with well over a millenium of contunuity of power are better described as Jesuit-style Catholics, Venetians who would have to be renamed International Banking Oligarchy, and Hospitallers--Knights of Malta, although it is difficult to tell what the latter actually do.
Thus is the sort of analysis and research that I am beginning to suspect is a distraction, a limited hangout, that blends various bits of truth and falsehood, in a rich but controversial and ever changing story, that keeps us from seeing the underlying dynamics of what is going on since long before any of these named groups came to be, and that blinds us from seeing a better way out, so long as the existing underlying dynamics persist.

It is the purpose of this present thread to take a different look at these matters.

Instead of studying the specific histories of such groups as the Masons, Templars, Jesuits, and so forth, to see which ruled over which, when, rather ask why it is that such dynamics seem to persist, millenium after millenium, in human civilization, on this planet.

My current take, as presented in this thread, is that seeding a mostly water covered planet, with multiple inter-fertile races, on various large continents, separated by mountain ranges and oceans, and then planting various advanced technologies amongst those species over time, will have a good likelihood of leading to where we find ourselves now:

with various nations, tribes and religions, spread across the planet, sometimes trading and sometimes warring, and
with one particular race that adapts to being the merchants and the money masters, a race without a home.

A Voice from the Mountains

31st July 2018, 04:08

If we can sum up the whole of the problem like that Paul, then wouldn't some type of immigration reform theoretically be able to at least remove the internationalist influence from our country? Along with some reforms to corporate law and a few other things. The only practical solution I see to that is countries strengthening their borders and local and state economic systems, and whenever anyone immigrates into the country they should be expected to integrate fully into existing American society, the broad limits of which will have to be defined.

Going back to the idea of returning to a pre-WW2 society, Theodore Roosevelt made a famous quote to the effect of there being only room for one language and one culture in the US. "Diversity is our strength" is the favorite slogan of these same Zionists while in reality every country with competing sets of values has constant violence and conflict. I don't think the government should dictate what our culture is, but just define it as it's popularly expressed, to within certain limits. That's going to be the challenge but that's also what our democratic functions are for, so we can all vote for our particular visions of what direction we want the country to go in. I expect that candidates may become truly diversified in the near future, with a lot of outsiders running for the first time. We may suddenly have lots of different options.

The international system would have to be tackled by chopping the foreign tentacles out of our central banking system or even doing away with it completely and maybe even returning to decentralized state banks. Trump is already tackling the bad trade deals, and then the broad rights given to multinational corporations should maybe be reconsidered too. I'm not entirely comfortable with the court ruling that corporations are entitled to the same rights as individuals, despite being a fictitious legal entity.

What else could we legally and practically do about it?

A Voice from the Mountains

31st July 2018, 04:28

On England becoming Master of the Sea, this mostly owes to the privateer (government-sanctioned pirate) Francis Drake, who sacked a Spanish treasure train in Panama; not that the stuff was legitimately earned by the Spaniards.

There were a lot of great adventurers during the reign of Elizabeth I. The Habsburgs tried to isolate her from continental Europe because they saw her as a rebel, so she encouraged private enterprise (including privateering/piracy) to steal Spain's revenue in gold and in a few cases tried to establish permanent American colonies for natural resources it used to get from Europe.

This whole international conflict between ruling houses ended with the English Civil War and then the Puritans took over under Cromwell. These are the same Puritans that settled New England, like Rabbi Mather of Witch Trial fame. So that's unfortunately who ran the brief English Republic. If anyone else had ran it, maybe England would have decided to keep it. Cromwell also allowed the Jews back into England since King Edward I had expelled them in 1290, and there were a lot of Rosicrucians and alchemists and occultists and other various groups publishing all kinds of stuff around that same time period, a big contradictory mess of ideologies. I guess you could call it the ideological "degeneracy" of their day. So there's that pattern again, of social breakdown, because England had previously censored heretical works.

Chevalier Ramsay once made a speech with no supporting evidence telling some of the Freemasons that they were Templars. From that point, Jesuits tampered with the system heavily.

The way the cabal always blames its enemies for what it is doing itself causes a great deal of the confusion, I think. In this case I don't know enough to tell one way or the other, if there is evidence to support the link or not.

Marquis de Lafayette, one of the most heavily-decorated Masons in the Egyptian-style rite, was one of the main bastions of liberty for both France and America. He plainly stated the Jesuits has started "most" of the wars in Europe. Another one was Thomas Paine. No government at the time cared about the disbanded Bavarian Illuminati, but they were utterly terrified of good ol' Tom Paine.

Paine alienated everyone by arguing that Christianity was just a whitewashed Sun-worship cult, and talking about astrotheology.

ThePythonicCow

31st July 2018, 05:23

What else could we legally and practically do about it?
Sometimes, the alligator can't drain the swamp, even if it wants to.

Even so, sometimes swamps do drain ... say if some larger geological process leads to the land rising and the weather turning cooler and drier.

I don't short circuit my efforts at understanding a situation just because my efforts haven't produced a good overall solution yet. Rather immediate action occurs as necessity requires and opportunity allows, while a larger understanding evolves as energy, insight, and experience permit.

Foxie Loxie

31st July 2018, 13:00

Soooooo......does this all boil down to various "off world" cultures each playing out their specific agendas, leaving us to try & figure out, logically, what is going on? :confused:

Since here on this Earth we tend to see things in a very narrow band frame of reference means that for eons we have not understood what is really going on in the Universe & we're trying to figure it all out NOW?! :ROFL:

It's fun to try!!! :Party:

ThePythonicCow

31st July 2018, 21:44

Soooooo......does this all boil down to various "off world" cultures each playing out their specific agendas,
Well, the origins (off vs on world) and the history (going back thousands, or millions, of years) of the hidden culture(s) that appear to be influencing us ... are matters that I can only guess at.

Valerie Villars

31st July 2018, 22:50

When the Vatican releases that treasure trove of information hidden from the general public, I might, just maybe, start thinking they actually cared about humanity. Maybe. I doubt it.

Hervé

1st August 2018, 00:27

...

So... the banksters... robber barons... etc.... :

...

Dusting off this other testimony from way back:

Svali- Illuminati Defector Detailed Pervasive Conspiracy (https://www.henrymakow.com/141002.html)

By Henry Makow, July 31, 2018

https://www.henrymakow.com/upload_images/svali.jpg

[...]

-------------------------------------

Updated from Oct 14, 2002
By Henry Makow Ph.D.
[...]

---------------------------------------

PERVASIVE PRESENCE
Svali: "The Illuminati are present in every major metropolitan centre in the United States. The Illuminati believe in controlling an area through its banks and financial institutions (guess how many sit on banking boards? You'd be surprised) Local government: guess how many get elected to local city councils? Law: children are encouraged to go to law school and medical school. Media: others are encouraged to go to journalism school, and members help fund local papers.

BELIEFS
Svali: "The Illuminati is a group that practices a form of faith known as "enlightenment". It is Luciferian, and they teach their followers that their roots go back to the ancient mystery religions of Babylon, Egypt, and Celtic druidism. They have taken what they consider the "best" of each, the foundational practices, and joined them together into a strongly occult discipline. Many groups at the local level worship ancient deities such as "El", "Baal", and "Ashtarte", as well as "Isis and Osiris" and "Set".... I do know that these people teach and practice evil."

WEISHAUPT
Svali: "Weishaupt did not create the Illuminati, they chose him as a figurehead and told him what to write about. The financiers, dating back to the bankers during the times of the Templar Knights who financed the early kings in Europe, created the Illuminati. Weishaupt was their "go fer", who did their bidding."

[...]

LEADERSHIP
Svali: "The national council [consists of] influential bankers with OLD money such as: The Rockefellers, the Mellon family, the Carnegie family, the Rothschild family etc. I know I shouldn't name names, but I will.

The "Supreme World Council" is already set up as a prototype of the one that will rule when the NWO comes into being. It meets on a regular basis to discuss finances, direction, policy, etc. and to problem-solve difficulties that come up. Once again, these leaders are heads in the financial world, OLD banking money. The Rothschild family in England, and in France, have ruling seats. A descendant of the Hapsburg dynasty has a generational seat. A descendant of the ruling families of England and France have a generational seat. The Rockefeller family in the US holds a seat.

This is one reason that the Illuminati have been pretty "untouchable" over the years. The ruling members are very, very, very wealthy and powerful. How do I know this? I was on a local leadership council (a head trainer), but I talked to those on regional. Also, every Illuminati child is taught who their "leaders" are, and told to take an oath of allegiance to them and the "New Order to come"."

ROYALTY
Svali: "The Illuminati leadership state that they are descended from royal bloodlines, as well as unbroken occult heritage.

https://www.henrymakow.com/upload_images/SAVILLE-CHARLES.jpg

See, there were two definitions of "royalty" used. Open royalty that is currently seen now, and "hidden royalty" of royal lineage and extreme occult power. Sometimes the two were concurrent, such as with the Prince of Wales.

I never thought of which country/line held the most power, since I was just a peon busily doing my job. But my understanding was: The Hanoverian / Hapsburg descendants rule in Germany over the Bruderheist. They are considered one of the strongest lines for occult as well. The British line is just under them, with the royal family. Definitely, they rule the UK branch under the Rothschilds in the occult realm, even though parliament rules the country openly.

In France, again, descendants of the royal families are also in power in the occult realm, but the French Rothschilds hold the reigns over all of them."

[...]

THE UNITED NATIONS
Svali: "The UN was created early in this century in order to help overcome one of the biggest barriers to a one-world government ...That barrier is the one of nationalism, or pride in one's country. This is why it was NOT a popular concept when first introduced, it took years of country bashing in the media and the destruction of any sense of national pride by a (not so subtle) media campaign over the years.

The UN is a preparation, but it is not the real power in the world, and will be relatively unimportant when the NWO comes into being. The real councils will then step forward. But as a means of getting the general public to accept the idea of a "global community" and the "one world community" the UN is a stepping stone in their working towards the NWO."

[...]

FREEMASONRY
Svali: "The Freemasons and the Illuminati are hand in glove. I don't care if this steps on any toes, it's a fact. The Masonic temple at Alexandria, Virginia (the city itself was named after Alexandria, Egypt, and is a hotbed of Illuminati activity) is a centre in the Washington, DC area for Illuminati scholarship and teaching. I was taken there at intervals for testing, to step up a level, for scholarship, and high ceremonies. The leaders in this Masonic group were also Illuminists.

This has been true of every large city I have lived in. The top Freemasons were also top Illuminists. My maternal grandparents were both high ranking Masons in the city of Pittsburgh, Pa. (president of the Eastern Star and 33rd degree Mason) and they both were also leaders in the Illuminati in that area.

Are all Masons Illuminati? No, especially at the lower levels, I believe they know nothing of the practices that occur in the middle of the night in the larger temples. Many are probably fine businessmen and Christians. But I have never known a 32 degree or above who wasn't Illuminati, and the group helped create Freemasonry as a "front" for their activities."

CIA FBI are all infiltrated. So are Mormons etc.
Svali: "Many of the administrators and directors at the FBI are also Illuminists. The CIA helped bring over German scientists after WWII. Many of these were also Illuminati leaders in their own country, and they were welcomed with open arms by the U.S. group. They also funnelled all information they were learning to the Illuminati.

The Mormons affiliated years ago in a meeting with Illuminati leadership in the 1950s. The same with the Jehovah's Witnesses."

[...]

Plenty more (here) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=1238874#post1238874) (<---)
(http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=1238874#post1238874)

ThePythonicCow

1st August 2018, 06:32

with various nations, tribes and religions, spread across the planet, sometimes trading and sometimes warring, and
with one particular race that adapts to being the merchants and the money masters, a race without a home.

In addition to a uniform law for traders (aka the Uniform Commercial Code) that these merchants and bankers would seek to install, they would also, as part of money lending, usury and debt collection, require a working "debt collection apparatus" in each nation.

If I lend a few dollars to my neighbor, on his oral promise to repay, then if he does not repay, I have no great recourse. I'm out the few dollars. Perhaps I can have the pleasure of calling him a foul name or of avoiding his company. But there is little more I can do.

Those who lend vast sums to individuals, corporations and governments around the globe require a more reliable recourse, to ensure that debts are repaid, either with interest, or by confiscation of the collateral.

This requires that nations have in place a reliable legal system, including legislators, regulators, police, judges and prisons. It requires that nations have a monopoly on whatever is the most powerful means of forcing or killing others available at the time, so that nations can be relied on to be able to "out gun" any would be debt scofflaw, including even smaller nations. It also requires that nations have the most powerful intelligence agencies, as even great force, if operating blind, can be quite impotent.

It requires that the lenders have deep hooks into these governments, so as to ensure that they have control over their debt collection apparatus.

Of course, now that almost all national governments fund their ongoing operations by borrowing money, from said banksters, the banksters now have yet another means of control over said governments, and of profiting from them.

Not just the property and resources of individuals, corporations and governments, but also their labor, future income streams, and future essential expenditure streams, also become potential assets to be used as collateral for debt.

That is what the US Federal Income Tax may be viewed as; not as the primary mechanism for funding ongoing government expenditures, but as the chief collateral for the debt money issued by the Federal Reserve. The Fed lends US Dollars into existence in the present, in turn for promised reimbursement of US Dollars collected by the Income Tax, in the future. Thus the Fed, and the Income Tax, were enacted in the same year, 1913, as two parts of a package.

===

So much starts to make more sense, when we realize the ascendancy, over thousands of years, of an international merchant and banker "class".

A Voice from the Mountains

1st August 2018, 06:58

When the Vatican releases that treasure trove of information hidden from the general public, I might, just maybe, start thinking they actually cared about humanity. Maybe. I doubt it.

My guess is that their biggest secret (aside from all of the ritualistic murder and of course their eternal child abuse) is the full knowledge of how badly they've butchered history. Not only Western history, but through missionaries and colonialism they've wreaked havoc upon the Indians, Chinese, and just about everyone else that the famous merchants have also reached. They've probably already destroyed anything of value, just like they burned libraries during the Thirty Years War.

ThePythonicCow

1st August 2018, 07:25

Foxie Loxie

1st August 2018, 13:39

Global Trade.....this makes me think of the Chinese, don't remember what year it was, that they had huge seagoing vessels traveling the world. A new emperor simply recalled the vessels.....or we might all be speaking Chinese!! :ROFL:

Hervé

1st August 2018, 15:50

So many roads going to D.C., Rome, The City...

From - to:

Major General Smedley Butler - " War is a Racket " (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?372-ALL-WAR-is-a-RACKET&p=1658&viewfull=1#post1658)

John Perkins' "The New Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?25102-For-an-idea-on-the-big-picture&p=1191155&viewfull=1#post1191155)

Privileged Dutchman about Child sacrifices, The Occult, Luciferianism etc. [Ronald Bernard, English Subtitles] (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?97291-Privileged-Dutchman-about-Child-sacrifices-The-Occult-Luciferianism-etc.-Ronald-Bernard-English-Subtitles)

... all under the "Sanctions!" excuse/justification...

A more subtle maneuvre uses the natural flow of "energy":

All on the Road to China (https://www.iceagenow.info/all-on-the-road-to-china/#more-26355)

by Robert (https://www.iceagenow.info/author/xilef/) July 31, 2018 (https://www.iceagenow.info/all-on-the-road-to-china/)

The Green-ants said “You can’t burn coal” – so we sent our coal to China. Then our factories and our smelters closed and followed the coal to China.
___________________

All on the Road to China

By Viv Forbes

The Green-ants said “You can’t burn coal” – so we sent our coal to China. Then our factories and our smelters closed and followed the coal to China.

The Green-ants said “You can’t eat beef” – so we sent our beef to China. Then burger chains and canneries closed and followed the beef to China.

The Green-ants said “Protect the trees” – so our grasslands went to weeds. Then China’s wool cheques disappeared and graziers went on welfare.

The Green-ants said “Don’t mention nukes” – so we shipped those fuels to China. Then Chinese power costs fell while ours just kept on soaring.

The Green-ants said “You can’t frack gas” – so we sent our drills to China. Then geologists and engineers were fired and followed the rigs to China.

Then blackouts came and jobs got scarce, so our kids chased jobs in China.

Today we import what we need and our cash is shipped to China.

And now we sit in flickering light, dreaming of times when factories and smelters flourished, work was honoured, explorers and builders were heroes, miners and farmers paid the nation’s bills, electricity was cheap and reliable, and to produce things was no crime.

It’s time we sent all of our Green-ants to China – there should be lots of work for them there.

https://www.iceagenow.info/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Aussie-green-ants.jpg
Cartoon courtesy of Steve Hunter Viv Forbes

vforbes@bigpond.com (vforbes@bigpond.com)
Washpool Qld Australia

=============================================

Plenty more (here) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103262-A-US-Night-of-The-Long-Knives...-Growing-Close-Very-Close&p=1233345&viewfull=1#post1233345) (<---)

PS: Thinking of Miles Mathis hypothesis that the "Protocols" were the brainchild of aristocrats... well, according to Svali (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94769-Pizzagate-pedophilia-in-American-elite--with-links-to-related-threads-&p=1238874&viewfull=1#post1238874), that's partially true... that these "Protocols" are also the brainchild of "Jews"... well, that's also true... or that they were issued from some Masonic leaders... partially true as well...

My summary is that, for sure, whether pure brand or trained into it, they all are psychopaths! .

Incidentally, this brings the discussion regarding this new movie: Avengers Infinity War, Sympathy For The Devil (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102687-Avengers-Infinity-War-Sympathy-For-The-Devil&highlight=avengers) as the newest illuminati propaganda blockbuster.

ThePythonicCow

4th August 2018, 01:10

I posted an analysis of the different between using gold as money, and using debt based money, on my Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?99133-Bitcoin-the-war-on-cash-Clif-High-and-the-NSA-s-long-range-plans&p=1239590&viewfull=1#post1239590) thread.

Summary: the US Dollar based system is a debt-money system, and the next world monetary system that replaces it will also be a debt-money system (albeit with higher quality debt, for a while at least.) The mark of the beast, placed on us by the Banksters of Babylon and the Merchants of Venice, will continue, for a while longer.

However, as Wade Frazier explains over on his epoch thread, WADE FRAZIER : A Healed Planet (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?10672-WADE-FRAZIER-A-Healed-Planet&p=1239424&viewfull=1#post1239424), a new epoch in the history of human civilization is unfolding, that will mark the end of the age of scarcity and of the mark of the beast.

A Voice from the Mountains

4th August 2018, 07:58

I just posted another thread about Christopher Langan, but he's been asked about Zionism and the Protocols of Zion, and I'll post here what he had to say about it.

He brings up the Kalergi plan as promoted by R.N. Coudenhove-Kalergi in 1925, to use mass immigration to mix the world into a single race of commoners who would then be ruled by a "master race" consisting of the banking elites and their buddies. Also points out what others have noted, that this would ultimately turn into a technocratic feudalism.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Christopher Langan
03/26/2018 12:08pm

Question: "I've been reading the works of Carrol Quigley lately such as Tragedy and Hope. He had exclusive access to CFR archives and claims that the Zionist Jewish faction is one amongst other factions of the elite. His assessment is that this is a kind of European-Jewish concoction which occasionally includes oligarchs from other ethnicities, for example the Ziabatsu (8 Japanese banking families). Do you agree with his assessment that this is a federated cartel of world elites? Or do you think it is ultimately dominated by one faction, a la the Protocols?"

Answer: First, let's get a couple of things out of the way.

(1) The provenance of "The Protocols of Zion" is widely questioned, and not without reason. However, there is no doubt that it contains a brilliant recipe for the subjugation, destruction, and replacement of Western Civilization, and that this recipe has been scrupulously followed *by someone* (whether by Zionists alone, which has been frequently and strenuously denied, or by a larger group of factions).

(2) Carroll Quigley, the mentor of Bill Clinton when the latter was able to focus his attention between the coercive sexcapades for which he is notorious in some circles, was apparently just what he now appears to be: a reputable academic and a consummate insider who was promised a lofty station toward the center of the global World-hive upon the completion of parasitic divergence. Therefore, we can take what he says as largely accurate. (Certainly the Clintons themselves have managed to profit handsomely on his advice - it is hard to imagine how they could have done a more thorough, successful, and personally rewarding job on behalf of their globalist patrons against the will and the interests of the US majority.)

Nevertheless, some may doubt that what Quigley says is true. "It's all just a big conspiracy theory!", they may cry. "Any sane person knows that our precious leaders of banking, industry, and government are simply not the kinds of people who would ever perch on a social-Darwinistic pedestal or conspire against the rest of the human species! To become that rich and powerful, they must have promised NEVER to try to take control of the entire planet, even after their wealth and power had made it easy for them to do so (after all, we gave it to them). Yes, they got where they are by capitalizing on any opportunity whatsoever, often ruthlessly and deceitfully, but there are some opportunities that no one would exploit, EVER! When it comes to ultimate power, our dear leaders are exactly the kind of people who would 'just say NO!'". Besides, they all attended the very best universities!"

Obviously, such opinions are as idiotic as they are extreme, and may therefore be dismissed. The people who voice them are already nothing but bug juice wetting the steamroller of "global governance", whose proprietors regard them as noisy, naive, annoying, and potentially dangerous pains in the neck. There is absolutely no reason to believe that any group with sufficient wealth, power, and contempt for most of humankind would not try to implement the recipe described in "The Protocols of Zion" en route to lording it over the rest of humanity.

Now for the key question: Is it just the Zionists who are responsible for all this mayhem, or is it a set of independent factions? It is neither. Rather, it is a set of interdependent factions. Of these factions, there are at least three: (1) International bankers, who possess a longstanding monopoly on the money supply and most of whom are indeed radical (ethnically exclusionary) Zionists. (2) The super-rich in general, including European royalty, the hereditary plutocracy (which owns majority interests in major corporations throughout the extended military-industrial-security complex), and various relatively small-time "nouveaux" including the majority of techie billionaires, who - although some of them have more money than the typical hereditary elite - are insufficiently refined to be fully absorbed by the "old guard" (what these people all have in common is money and power, which they use to manipulate governments, academia, and the mass media). (3) The world religious establishment, which has always served the powers-that-be by threatening and placating the little people, promising them that all and only the most obedient little slaves are destined to feast eternally on a giant mound of pie in the sky.

What's the documentary proof of this? There is quite a lot of it, but the piece of evidence I like the best is a little book called "Praktischer Idealismus" ("Practical Idealism") by one R.N. Coudenhove-Kalergi, who - with ample funding from the European central banking establishment - made it clear, in 1925 (well before anyone had associated the phrase "master race" with the Nazis), that the world would be ruled by a "master race" consisting of the bankers and the world plutocracy, who would use mass immigration to mix everyone else up in a vast genetic melting-pot called the "Eurasian-negroid Race of the Future". Mr. Kalergi, often recognized as the consummate progenitor and true founder of the European Union, was the first and paradigmatic recipient of the EU Charlemagne Prize, and his well-enunciated program of demographic genocide indisputably survives as the official immigration policy of the EU (and, unfortunately, of North America) to this very day. No doubt Quigley was fully aware of this evidence, and there's also no doubt that it was confirmed in every way by the rich and powerful people to whom he was close ... directly, so to speak, from the horse's mouth.

There is just one possible outcome if this program succeeds: a neofeudalistic 2-tier world-hive, consisting of genetically distinct overclass and underclass, at the center of which the super-rich overclass, surrounded by unimaginable opulence and powerful surveillance, coercion, and bio-psycho-sociological control technologies, will forever wield "the legitimate power monopoly of the State" (that's the official UN phrasing, where "State" is defined to include any puppet government of the extant global government which is completely owned and controlled by the "master race" described by Mr. Kalergi). This was called the "Tech Singularity" in my last paper. The CTMU has been presented as the ideological nucleus of an alternative outcome called the "Human Singularity". As explained, if the Tech Singularity is allowed to preempt the Human Singularity, humanity is all but finished in any sustainable form, let alone any form that we would currently recognize as dignified, tolerable, or fully human.

Obviously, anyone to whom this sounds like "utopia" is either a card-carrying member of the "master race", or profoundly deluded.

I hope this helps answer your question. In any case, I've described this situation before and don't have time to continually repeat myself, so please take note of it.
~~~~~~~~~~~

[ Mod-edit: I replaced an unlinked, unsearchable, screen shot image of this Facebook post (https://www.facebook.com/groups/ctmurealitytheory/permalink/10156216984762486/), with the actual, searchable, text. -- Paul. ]

ThePythonicCow

5th August 2018, 17:44

I just posted another thread about Christopher Langan, but he's been asked about Zionism and the Protocols of Zion, and I'll post here what he had to say about it.
While Christopher Langan's comments on Zionism and the Protocols of Zion are well stated, perhaps overly well stated as is his wont, the premise of this present thread Banksters of Babylon, Merchants of Venice, and Elders of Zion (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103656-Banksters-of-Babylon-Merchants-of-Venice-and-Elders-of-Zion) is that such details miss what might be a larger, and in the end, more important point.

Given the nature of humanity on this planet for at least the last few thousand years, where separate civilizations and/or races have been separated by vast expanses of ocean and of continental interiors that have been difficult to traverse until quite recently, perhaps it was rather natural that a merchant/banker class arose, which made vast sums and acquired vast power, serving as humanity's traders, and developing a partially distinct "supra-national" race and ideology ... the people without a nation.

If that is the case, and if the physical separation of the various people's on this planet is now coming to an end, integrating humanity into a single, global, trade, money, and communications network, then perhaps the very basis of the extraordinary power of the Elders of Zion is coming to an end.

A Voice from the Mountains

5th August 2018, 20:26

ThePythonicCow

5th August 2018, 23:52

Given the nature of humanity on this planet for at least the last few thousand years, where separate civilizations and/or races have been separated by vast expanses of ocean and of continental interiors that have been difficult to traverse until quite recently, perhaps it was rather natural that a merchant/banker class arose, which made vast sums and acquired vast power, serving as humanity's traders, and developing a partially distinct "supra-national" race and ideology ... the people without a nation.

I remember that this is the main thesis of this thread, and it's still a solid theory.

One thing that makes me doubt that it's this simple is the fact, as documented in Graham Hancock's work, that the natives of Mexico and Central America were practicing human sacrifice in exactly the same way as people in the Middle East and elsewhere.
I don't know very well what were the various American civilizations that existed prior to the European invasions of the last half millenium, nor do I know what trading relations existed between these American civilizations and elsewhere on the planet.

However, given the evidence apparently discovered, then apparently suppressed, of very ancient artifacts in the Americas that resemble artifacts from the Eurasian-African land mass, I would consider it likely that international, or at least inter-civilization, trade existed in the Americas, for a very long time.

And if there is anything to what Edgar Cayce was saying, he painted a picture of a corrupt and evil faction at the end of the Atlantean era, which caused that cataclysm and was then dispersed around the world along with those who weren't on board with what they were doing. I don't think we can actually prove anything like that right now but I also wouldn't be surprised if that were the real ultimate root of today's international bankers and merchants, royal bloodlines and all the rest.
I would not be surprised to learn that the corrupt and evil factions that find their roots in the international mercantile and money changing people go back a long, long way, to Atlantis and before.

This all fits with my thesis.

My thesis is that naming the ancient families, races, societies, cultures, and their history, ancestry and genealogy, even if going back thousands of years, that have been dominant in the various trading, money, and related international legal, political, educational, entertainment, ... businesses, and that observing how many thousands of years these lineages go back, does not tell us as much as we'd like about what is the underlying cause of or how to remedy this systemic illness of human civilization or what the prognosis is.

Rather we might also benefit from understanding the underlying milieu that has given rise to such toll takers, and then ask how to change or improve that milieu.

This is similar to the medical advice that I sometimes find valuable. Chronic illnesses are not simply caused by "bad germs" or "bad fat cells" or "bad genes", that we should hunt down and name and kill. Rather chronic illness (and we are dealing with a chronic illness of human civilization) is usually a sign of an underlying systemic or metabolic maladaptation.

In the body, as Dr. John Bergman (https://www.youtube.com/user/johnbchiro) likes to observe, if we can reduce the physical, chemical, or emotional stress that is causing our body's maladaptation and evoking the symptoms of some disease or other, then we can improve our body's health.

As has been the case for all of recorded human history, and perhaps in some of the prerecorded times as well (its hard to check records that no are longer accessible), it seems that the human population on this planet, whenever it numbered in the millions or more, has consisted of various somewhat separated population concentrations, engaged in trade, and thus providing the underlying milieu that can give rise to such toll takers.

Perhaps, now, that milieu is shifting. Perhaps now the human population on this planet is becoming more integrated than ever before (that we know of.)

Perhaps the long reign of the merchants, the money changers, and the various specialists in their globalist political, legal, military, intelligence, technical, propaganda, scientific, etc means of obtaining power, wealth and control are waning.

The milieu of human civilization is shifting, as its means of exchanging wealth, word and goods integrates into one global web.

Perhaps the so called globalists are the ones who are fighting this globalism, becoming increasingly desperate to keep us divided amongst ourselves.

Those "globalists" strive to maintain their global reach, while keeping the rest of us separated.

ThePythonicCow

7th August 2018, 07:36

I should now give credit for where some portion of my inspiration for this thread came from.

Miles Mathis has been publishing, over the last couple of weeks, what will become a four part paper, by a guest writer who goes by the name "Gerry".

Here are Miles descriptions of the first three parts of this paper, with links to them:

NEW PAPER, added 7/17/18, Ancient Spooks: Part I (http://mileswmathis.com/phoen.pdf). A previous guest writer is back with a long one on the foundations of both covert operations and—more broadly—the Jewish aristocracy. I save most of my comments for the end of Part IV.
NEW PAPER, added 7/23/18, Ancient Spooks: Part II (http://mileswmathis.com/phoen2.pdf). More on ancient covert ops and Jewish aristocracy.
NEW PAPER, added 7/30/18, Ancient Spooks: Part III (http://mileswmathis.com/phoen3.pdf). Here is the big reveal, although most have already figured it out.

The final, fourth, part of Gerry's work has yet to be published by Miles.

As one tasty tidbit, here's the lines from Part III which inspired, in part, my previous post, just above:

But I think the institution that ultimately allowed these connections was likely another one: Global Trade. There’s nothing bad about trade in general. But global trade, of things not easily substituted, turns quickly into a global monopoly, as it hands the key to entire nations to groups of rich and powerful pople.

The fourth and final paper of Gerry's series is now published: Ancient Spooks: Part IV (http://mileswmathis.com/phoen4.pdf). In this paper, Gerry finishes up with some commentary on Rome, Carthage, and other related topics, and also Miles Mathis adds some brief concluding remarks on the series himself.

At various points in this paper, Gerry provides further examples of how traders can gain great wealth and power. For example, the Bronze age (roughly 3000 to 1000 BC) relied on a good source of tin (which is scarce) to mix with copper (which is softer and more abundant) to make bronze, which is harder than copper, but still an easily worked metal. The British isles had essential tin mines. The merchants who could get that tin cheaply in Britain and ship it to where it was more valuable for making weapons and bronze tools could make a fortune. Gerry's paper even makes the case that the word "Britannica" comes indirectly from the Phoenician for "field of tin".

Gerry's work (the above four papers) have strengthened my conviction that merchants and money changers, apparently going back at least to the Phoenicians, have been and remain, in various guises, the elite power brokers of civilization for thousands of years.

Bonus observation: I just now noticed that the Wikipedia article for Phoenicia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia) states right up front, in its opening sentence, that "Phoenicia ... was an ... ancient Semitic civilization".

A Voice from the Mountains

7th August 2018, 08:06

I don't know very well what were the various American civilizations that existed prior to the European invasions of the last half millenium, nor do I know what trading relations existed between these American civilizations and elsewhere on the planet.

However, given the evidence apparently discovered, then apparently suppressed, of very ancient artifacts in the Americas that resemble artifacts from the Eurasian-African land mass, I would consider it likely that international, or at least inter-civilization, trade existed in the Americas, for a very long time.

Yes, and I'm actually putting together a book on this subject that I plan to self-publish, and have been compiling research for a few years now, though the material is mostly localized to the territory of the modern United States east of the Mississippi River.

The underlying connection between these cultures (say, the Incas and the Egyptians, for example) appears to have existed before the cataclysm that destroyed "Atlantis," and so they are pre-historic. After this cataclysm, there is clear archaeological evidence of severe problems all over the world that impeded any kind of flourishing global trade for many centuries. Even the most civilized areas seem to have been reduced almost back to the hunter-gatherer stage, though agriculture survived. These are the people who existed after the end of the last "ice age," when all of those glaciers suddenly melted for some "unknown" reason.

Not only that, but the survivors appear to have had a morbid fascination with astronomy, and this is the origin of megalithic astronomical observatories and the roots of early astrotheological religions that eventually morphed into pagan pantheons and Christianity, among other things. This supports Hancock's theory of a celestial impact being the cause of the cataclysm. It would make sense that the survivors would go to great lengths to monitor the heavens after such an event, despite being reduced to such primitive means of doing so.

And when people find evidence of Egyptian artifacts in the Americas, they assume that people in Egypt went out seafaring and discovered America very early on. There is a French author (albeit "Carnac Pierre," looks like an obvious pseudonym to me) who makes a very compelling case that "Cro-Magnons" were the original inhabitants of "Atlantis" and dispersed along the Atlantic seaboard on both sides of the Atlantic after the catastrophe. They also penetrated into continental North and South America to some extent but were exterminated in both cases.

https://www.richardcassaro.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/inca-egypt.jpg

I don't believe this is evidence of colonization, such as the English colonizing North America, but of a common pre-cataclysm culture, in the same way that the Indo-European languages all come from the same pre-historic language. In fact the Indo-European language family is a great example of a common pre-historic origin shared by many different groups, and not one that developed within the historical period.

My thesis is that naming the ancient families, races, societies, cultures, and their history, ancestry and genealogy, even if going back thousands of years, that have been dominant in the various trading, money, and related international legal, political, educational, entertainment, ... businesses, and that observing how many thousands of years these lineages go back, does not tell us as much as we'd like about what is the underlying cause of or how to remedy this systemic illness of human civilization or what the prognosis is.

It might not seem like it tells us much now, but historians are going to be historians anyway, and whether or not it ends up being of any practical use will be for future generations to decide. I think there's a lot of value that is being compiled right now and I enjoy contributing to that in my own little way. The Internet age is giving us an unprecedented opportunity to compile and collate many generations of independent research from many people.

Whatever happened in the past, I think the ongoing problems are ultimately spiritual. Any form of government can be corrupted if the people are rotten, so I don't think the final answer is political. But I'm no spiritual leader, so that's not my bag. I just try to hold up to my own standards as far as that goes, and learn as we go along.

Jayke

7th August 2018, 08:29

History can get so confusing :confused:

I watched a video by Robert Sepehr yesterday, showing that the early Phoenician culture might have been Germanic (aryan) or even Viking.

fimRo8tNhMo

This is the challenge I’ve always faced when trying to untangle the quagmire of history. Just when you think you’ve figured it out, an anomaly pops up to challenge our conclusions. I’m still trying to figure out how they could’ve been Aryan and Semitic at the same time. Maybe it has something to do with the Telluric and Thalassocratic stages of development. The Telluric powers would probably maintain a pure blood culture, whereas the Thalassocratic would be more multicultural due to their stopping and docking at different ports, across different continents and countries.

I got muddled up in one of my earlier posts, where I said the Phoenicians stemmed from Canaanites. After reviewing my books, they did come partially from Canaan, but there’d already been intermingling with the Hyksos (who the Egyptian pharaoh Merykare called the ‘asiatics’), Greek Minoan and the Semitic Canaan races as early as 2000BC. One reason the Thalassocratic (sea) Power oligarchs don’t value the unique culture of individual nation states, is because they sacrificed their unique culture—for the mercentilistic profits of multiculturalism—a long time ago imo.

Like Voice said though, I think the Earth goes through cycles where sometimes the Telluric and Thalassocratic powers conjoin; the Telluric lifts the Thalassocratic with their nobility and honour, and the Thalassocratic spreads that newly raised unity of culture far and wide across the planet. When the 2 primary powers unite and harmonise into one culture, that’s probably when you we get golden age eras on the planet.

A Voice from the Mountains

7th August 2018, 08:40

I’m still trying to figure out how they could’ve been Aryan and Semitic at the same time.

The way we understand those words today probably doesn't translate very deeply into the past. Semitic really means being descended from Sem, one of the sons of Noah. I don't know about you but I don't believe that the world was literally repopulated by Noah's three sons. So the word itself is based on a myth. It doesn't take long for the conventional narrative of history to completely fall apart, once you go back so far.

I love Robert Sepehr's videos by the way.

Like Voice said though, I think the Earth goes through cycles where sometimes the Telluric and Thalassocratic powers conjoin; the Telluric lifts the Thalassocratic with their nobility and honour, and the Thalassocratic spreads that newly raised unity of culture far and wide across the planet. When the 2 primary powers unite and harmonise into one culture, that’s probably when you we get golden age eras on the planet.

Thalassocratic -- now there's a 50 cent word that perfectly describes our mysterious maritime merchants.

Jayke

7th August 2018, 18:50

There’s a map of the world by Manilius, from his book, Astronomica, written between 10-20AD, which helps contextualise how and where these different ancient cultures might have interacted with each other.

http://thepythoniccow.us/LCL469-pii-f1.jpg

What’s interesting is that under the name of each culture, he writes a glyph of the Zodiac, denoting a description of the general character of that culture. Since there’s 12 zodiac signs, I’m wondering if these cultures represent the 12 tribes of Dan (12 tribes of D’Anu).

A Voice from the Mountains

7th August 2018, 19:36

There’s a map of the world by Manilius, from his book, Astronomica, written between 10-20AD, which helps contextualise how and where these different ancient cultures might have interacted with each other.

I'm skeptical of all of these "ancient" works. Note that the Indo-European culture originally spread from Europe, through Persia, into India, and there is not only linguistic but religious and architectural evidence of this, yet he doesn't reflect any of that, does he? The Greeks are said to have later Hellenized the Middle East but he doesn't reflect that either.

Here is some information on the primary sources for this "ancient" text:

Although there are over thirty existing manuscript copies of the Astronomica, the text as it is known today is derived from three key manuscripts: Codex Gemblacensis (G), Codex Lipsiensis (L), and Codex Matritensis (M).[nb 7] These in turn belong to two separate manuscript families: "α" (which includes G and L), and "β" (which includes M).[139][140] Of the two families, Robinson Ellis wrote: "[α] represents a text more correct, but worse interpolated; [β], a text which is fuller of copyists' errors, but less interpolated."[141]

The first family, "α", takes its name from a now-lost source and includes manuscripts G and L.[139][140] G, dating from the late 10th to the 11th century, was found at the monastery of Gembloux in Brabant, in modern-day Belgium; L, from the library of Leipzig, was probably written around the mid-11th century and has many corrections made by a scribe.[138] Housman argues that L is the superior of the two, as it was probably copied straight from α, whereas G was probably derived from a copy of a copy.[142]

The second family, "β", takes its name from the now-lost archetype and includes manuscript M,[139][140] which itself is a direct descendant of the manuscript that Poggio Bracciolini rediscovered near Constance during a break in the Council of Constance c. 1416–17 (i.e. the aforementioned manuscript β).[138][139][143] M had been transcribed by a German amanuensis on Bracciolini's request, but due to the scribe's incompetence[nb 8] the resultant manuscript was riddled with mistakes, prompting Bracciolini to sarcastically remark that the new copy had to be "divined rather than read" (divinare oportet non legere).[138][144] Although poorly written, M has been singled out as possibly the most important surviving manuscript, because it is apparently a direct copy of the archetype (β), whereas G and L are derived from a different copy (α) of the archetype.[140]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomica_(Manilius)#Textual_history

As per usual with these things, the oldest surviving primary source is medieval and comes down to us from the Catholic Church. Not only that but there are multiple versions of the text and scholars have to try to reconstruct what the original said by presuming that it's not a forgery to begin with, despite the fact that we also know that forgery was rampant during the medieval period and that scribes often made their living through forgery, profitability ensuring that it was a major industry.

I won't take the time to go that far off topic here, but I bet you $20 that if you dug further into the discrepancies between the different surviving primary sources, you'll find even more baffling problems in the provenance of the text. I've seen lots of these followed back and the true origins of these old manuscripts are rarely as they seem. When people talk about what the Vatican is hiding in its library, they are beating around the same problem, that the Vatican has forged our history.

Foxie Loxie

8th August 2018, 21:15

How about Sylvi(?) who has been exploring the theory that about 1,000 years have been added to our history & seems to prove it through artifacts she has found?

Of course, I am unable to remember her name, exactly, but I think it was TargeT who first put me on to this theory. It seems quite a bit came from those middle ages monasteries! :confused:

ThePythonicCow

11th August 2018, 02:06

the theory that about 1,000 years have been added to our history

Paul, if you want to break some of these posts off into a thread called "Phantom Time and Chronological Revisionism," I can start posting a lot of this kind of information there instead of cluttering up this thread with it.

As suggested by "A Voice from the Mountains", I have moved the next 16 posts on this thread to a new thread: Phantom Time and Chronological Revisionism (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103822-Phantom-Time-and-Chronological-Revisionism.).

In that new thread "A Voice from the Mountains", "Jayke", and perhaps others discuss historical revisionism, such as written by Sylvi and Anatoly Fomenko, and related topics.

Jayke

11th August 2018, 04:28

Take 2! Let’s try this again...

Some of the paradoxes that have arisen from this thread.

1. The Phoenician Canaanites were apparently Semitic and parasitic, yet Robert Sepehr provides evidence that early Germans and vikings were Phoenician Caucasians, who were brave and noble?
2. The chronology of history appears to have been forged? Yet it also appears to be accurate?
3. Miles Mathis provides evidence that the Ancient Spooks were a global hegemony, even in ancient times, but if they had such great dominance, why would they have needed to develop the Protocols of Zion as a way to subjugate entire populations to their will?

I would be interested in hearing other people’s hypotheses as to how these paradoxes can be reconciled within a singular narrative of history.

ThePythonicCow

11th August 2018, 05:43

...
3. Miles Mathis provides evidence that the Ancient Spooks were a global hegemony, even in ancient times, but if they had such great dominance, why would they have needed to develop the Protocols of Zion as a way to subjugate entire populations to their will?
...
My sense is that, in a changing world,
maintaining dominance is a never ending task.

http://www.thecollegesolution.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/man-pushing-rock-up-hill-ok-to-use-200x200.jpg

Hervé

11th August 2018, 13:46

How to double time into overtime :)

... as potential answers to Jayke's "paradoxes" in forging looooonnnngggg ancestries (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1131232&viewfull=1#post1131232) to land claims and populations.

Some comments I found interesting:
Responses to Gunnar Heinsohn: Enigmas of 3000 to 300 BC

https://0.gravatar.com/avatar/f07a5ecc4aad01d154d5d918bf05cd41?s=40&d=https%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D40&r=G John Miller says:
July 30, 2018 at 07:02 (https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2018/07/30/gunnar-heinsohn-enigmas-of-3000-to-300-bc/#comment-17552)
Does Professor Heinsohn have a single (even hypothetical) chronology, that spans everything from the so-called ‘Sumerians' (in reality the Chaldeans), up (down?) to the point where the chronology is more or less accurate? One that would include Chaldeans, Assyrians, Persians, Romans (and whoever else)?

Reply (https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2018/07/30/gunnar-heinsohn-enigmas-of-3000-to-300-bc/?replytocom=17552#respond)
https://2.gravatar.com/avatar/877f7a596775ef1d846c7258ce09bb60?s=40&d=https%3A%2F%2F2.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D40&r=G Gunnar Heinsohn says:
July 30, 2018 at 12:05 (https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2018/07/30/gunnar-heinsohn-enigmas-of-3000-to-300-bc/#comment-17555)
For the territories from Egypt to India I published chronological overviews in 2006 (http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/History/empires_lost_found.htm). Tim Cullen inspired me to, eventually, include Europe/Italy. Yet, there is still a lot of work to be done.
Gunnar Heinsohn

Reply (https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2018/07/30/gunnar-heinsohn-enigmas-of-3000-to-300-bc/?replytocom=17555#respond)

https://0.gravatar.com/avatar/f07a5ecc4aad01d154d5d918bf05cd41?s=40&d=https%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D40&r=G John Miller says:
August 3, 2018 at 10:55 (https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2018/07/30/gunnar-heinsohn-enigmas-of-3000-to-300-bc/#comment-17604)
Thank you very much for that.
I was wondering if, having studied and investigated both the ‘Classical’ and the ‘Early Mediaeval’ Periods, how much real time you believe might have elapsed between the time of “Nimrod” and Otto III the Holy Roman Emperor.
Clearly it is not the “over 3000 years” that our textbooks state that it is today.
Thank you.

Reply (https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2018/07/30/gunnar-heinsohn-enigmas-of-3000-to-300-bc/?replytocom=17604#respond)

https://2.gravatar.com/avatar/877f7a596775ef1d846c7258ce09bb60?s=40&d=https%3A%2F%2F2.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D40&r=G Gunnar Heinsohn says:
August 4, 2018 at 10:48 (https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2018/07/30/gunnar-heinsohn-enigmas-of-3000-to-300-bc/#comment-17623)
A rough time-scale will be published at the end of my brief text EXODUS (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1241227&viewfull=1#post1241227). The time span between the end of the Uruk Period (conventionally 3100 BC) and the death of Otto the Great (+973 AD) has some 1200 years with archaeological strata.
Gunnar Heinsohn

Referring to this article:

Gunnar Heinsohn: Enigmas of 3000 to 300 BC (https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2018/07/30/gunnar-heinsohn-enigmas-of-3000-to-300-bc/)

by malagabay (https://malagabay.wordpress.com/author/malagabay/) Posted on July 30, 2018 (https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2018/07/30/gunnar-heinsohn-enigmas-of-3000-to-300-bc/)

https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/enigmas-of-3000-to-300-bc.jpg?w=640&h=480 (https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/enigmas-of-3000-to-300-bc.jpg)

Did the Romans nostrify the history of the Etruscans to prolong their own chronology?

Tim Cullen collected many observations to support such an assumption.
The two maps below also show indisputable similarities between the political constellations in the Phoenician period of the Etruscans (9th-6th c.), and in the Punic period of the Romans (6th-3rd c.).

https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/map-01.jpg?w=640&h=369 (https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/map-01.jpg)

https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/map-02.jpg?w=640&h=390 (https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/map-02.jpg)

Indeed, nowhere can one find Punic (centered on Carthage) or Roman cities (in Italy) with building layers from the 6th-3rd century BC that are super-imposed upon building layers of Phoenician (centered on Tyre) or Etruscan cities from the 9th-6th century BC.

The strata found in the ground are – roughly speaking – dated either 9th-6th or 6th-3rd century.

There is, per individual site, always only a single package of strata to fill one but never two consecutive periods.

Archaeologists don’t deny it.

They explain it by saying:
“Etruscan cities have generally been built over from the Romans onwards, and houses have left little trace“
(Etruscan Architecture 2018).
Their firm belief in our textbook chronology forbids them to imagine the simultaneity of both histories.

Two different narratives about one and the same history were, indeed, transformed into two consecutive histories.

This did not disturb anyone until archaeology began and hard evidence could only be found for one of the two periods.

The similarity of the, e.g., portrait styles (eyes, hair, beards etc.) in the 9th/8th century and in the 5th/4th century were then interpreted as a consciously planned renaissance.

However, such an interpretation cannot replace the missing strata and residential quarters in the ground.

Continue reading the article in PDF format by clicking here (https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/3000-300-bc-august-2018-heinsohn.pdf)

Related:
Gunnar Heinsohn: Exodus (https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2018/08/06/gunnar-heinsohn-exodus/) Posted on August 6, 2018 (https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2018/08/06/gunnar-heinsohn-exodus/)

shaberon

12th August 2018, 11:21

I'd not seen it suggested before, that Indo-European meant something that started in Europe and moved to India. The only European states that were not forcibly Christianized were the Baltics, and, right now, you can go and look at most country houses in Lithuania, and they honor Indian deities.

What seems more likely is that Central Asia was a paradise in the last ice age while most everywhere else was shut down.

I would agree that the post-industrial merchant class pretty much usurped every government it came into contact with, replacing the church for the most part. There was a time when it was a little more honorable, because very dangerous. Such as pirates. The Barbary Coast was unapproachable; this is what the Marines sing about with "the shores of Tripoli", which they shut down around 1810.

Similarly, the success of Swiss banking was from being Europe's only safe haven from Vikings, Huns, Mongols, and so forth, and the eventuality of the Swiss pike phalanx being the top notch medieval army. So although businesses are quite oppressive now, it may be a fairly normal response to a long experience of cash and freight being a magnet for violence. If painted with too broad a brush of how they were always "in charge", it may lose track of many of them being killed, sold into slavery, and all the other horrible fates that were far less likely to occur to 90% of the population that farmed and never went more than about five miles from where they were born. Not defending them, just considering that a few successful dynasties probably emerged out of thousands of tragedies.

Rome, curiously, owes its origin to Saturn, a refugee from the Trojan War ca. 1200 B. C. in the area called Latium. So if you say "Latin" anything, this is an honorific to Saturn. This was Virgil's "Golden Age" when it was prosperous and peaceful to Etruscans and was really just Latin Culture, not the city of Rome. In hoping for a return to that Golden Age, he wasn't saying anything particularly kind about the place in his time.

Jayke

12th August 2018, 11:36

Rome, curiously, owes its origin to Saturn, a refugee from the Trojan War ca. 1200 B. C. in the area called Latium. So if you say "Latin" anything, this is an honorific to Saturn. This was Virgil's "Golden Age" when it was prosperous and peaceful to Etruscans and was really just Latin Culture, not the city of Rome. In hoping for a return to that Golden Age, he wasn't saying anything particularly kind about the place in his time.

That’s a very interesting point Shaberon. It’s fairly well known that the Saturnalian cult that originated from Rome (the cult of the black cube, which is worshipped by ultra orthodox Jews, Muslims and high finance) is behind a lot of the power structures in the world today. What’s less well known is the root word for Saturn — in the Vedic — was the same root word used for Satya Yuga (the golden age).

I know Manly P. Hall, in his book on St Germaine, shares a prophecy from within Masonic traditions, for the return of Saturn and the next golden age that he brings.

Robert Sepehr has a good video on the Saturnalian strand of influence from Roman history:

iAW0vZLB1lU

shaberon

12th August 2018, 13:12

Vedic, or Sanskrit, Satya is the Age of Truth; Sat meaning truth. The Sanskrit name of Saturn is Shani.

I didn't know the origin of "Saturn", so I looked, and found possibly the past tense of "to sow", Latin.

Most people interpreted Virgil's Golden Age (it is a prophecy) as a prediction of Jesus, whereas, the common context of his time was that the Golden Age continued 2-300 years after Saturn in Latium, a good peaceful time, contrasted against the Roman authorities then current.

I would say that the Archon of Saturn was distinctly cast into the Ialdabaoth or Demi-urge--Yahweh to the point where all the Abrahamic religions worship Form. In this, I am making a distinction from the Regent of Saturn, meaning its existence in Consciousness. People are generally correct to be wary of Archons, which are probably relatively powerless until given power, which is what these religions are all about.

It would be the same with the Sun. Adonai is Baal or Assur (Assyria). Which is fine if you understand it spiritually. But these religions worship Form, hence using an Archon of the Sun as well.

The distinction is roughly the same as mind and instinct. Do the instincts exist in the mind, yes, but which is in charge?

So the Saturn Regent is supposed to be in charge, but in fact, the Archon has been enshrined. The Regent of Saturn is the Father, or the Abba whom Jesus spoke of, actually that's all he spoke of, he never mentioned god ever.

I'd suggest this is a pretty important distinction: Saturn Archon has been completely bottled and used for extremely nefarious purposes, but it is not the "real" Saturn, it is mankind's adoration of its shadow.

Jayke

12th August 2018, 14:56

Vedic, or Sanskrit, Satya is the Age of Truth; Sat meaning truth. The Sanskrit name of Saturn is Shani.

I didn't know the origin of "Saturn", so I looked, and found possibly the past tense of "to sow", Latin.

Sanskrit writing, with the Vedic mindset...I do tend to conflate the two. Your distinctions help shine a light on why the root word of ‘Sat’ was used for both names though. There’s an excellent book on the Tibetan Vajryana tradition called Skydancer (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sky-Dancer-Keith-Dowman/dp/1559390654/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1534083547&sr=1-3&keywords=Skydancer), about the Life and songs of Yeshe Tsogyel, an enlightened female Buddha from the 7th or 8th century. In that book she describes the Kali Yuga as “the age of intensified animal passions”. She spends a portion of her life teaching the Abhidharma (the truest truths of the dharma, the structure of the Tao), which is reserved only for the best and brightest of Buddhas students.

Then she spends another portion of her life writing ‘Tertons’ and hiding them in caves so that in future times, when the world is ready, people who have cultivated enough merit, or purified enough karma; will serendipitously stumble onto those caves and rediscover the ancient wisdom of the abhidharma.

The act of hiding tertons in caves could be likened to planting seeds of truth or seeds of wisdom in the ground, so that in the time of the Satya Yuga; Saturn, the ‘Lord of time’ and ‘king of the harvest’, can unearth those seeds and reap what’s been sown.

The distinction is roughly the same as mind and instinct. Do the instincts exist in the mind, yes, but which is in charge?...

I'd suggest this is a pretty important distinction: Saturn Archon has been completely bottled and used for extremely nefarious purposes, but it is not the "real" Saturn, it is mankind's adoration of its shadow.

Excellent distinction! That does make a lot of sense, I like it. :star:

The Saturnalian cult is all about flipping the natural order, where servants get to parade around as kings for a day. What was the Buddha’s quote, where he says something along the lines of ‘in the end of days, the world will be ruled by plunderers and thieves’, sounds like an accurate description of our current state of political affairs.

Jayke

12th August 2018, 15:14

These ‘Big Four’ Companies Control the World, Yet You’ve Probably Never Heard of Them

========

https://steemit.com/news/@sione/these-big-four-companies-control-the-world-yet-you-ve-probably-never-heard-of-them

Some people have started realizing that there are large financial groups that dominate the world. Forget the political intrigues, conflicts, revolutions and wars. It is not pure chance. Everything has been planned for a long time.

Some call it “conspiracy theories” or New World Order. Anyway, the key to understanding the current political and economic events is a restricted core of families who have accumulated more wealth and power.

We are speaking of 6, 8 or maybe 12 families who truly dominate the world. Know that it is a mystery difficult to unravel.

We will not be far from the truth by citing Goldman Sachs, Rockefellers, Loebs Kuh and Lehmans in New York, the Rothschilds of Paris and London, the Warburgs of Hamburg, Paris and Lazards Israel Moses Seifs Rome.

Many people have heard of the Bilderberg Group, the Trilateral Commission. But what are the names of the families who run the world and have control of states and international organizations like the UN, NATO or the IMF?

To try to answer this question, we can start with the easiest: inventory, the world’s largest banks, and see who the shareholders are and who make the decisions.

The world’s largest companies are now: Bank of America, JP Morgan, Citigroup, Wells Fargo, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley.Let us now review who their shareholders are.

Bank of America:

State Street Corporation, Vanguard Group, BlackRock, FMR (Fidelity), Paulson, JP Morgan, T. Rowe, Capital World Investors, AXA, Bank of NY, Mellon.

JP Morgan:

State Street Corp., Vanguard Group, FMR, BlackRock, T. Rowe, AXA, Capital World Investor, Capital Research Global Investor, Northern Trust Corp. and Bank of Mellon.

Citigroup:

State Street Corporation, Vanguard Group, BlackRock, Paulson, FMR, Capital World Investor, JP Morgan, Northern Trust Corporation, Fairhome Capital Mgmt and Bank of NY Mellon.

Wells Fargo:

Berkshire Hathaway, FMR, State Street, Vanguard Group, Capital World Investors, BlackRock, Wellington Mgmt, AXA, T. Rowe and Davis Selected Advisers.

We can see that now there appears to be a nucleus present in all banks: State Street Corporation, Vanguard Group, BlackRock and FMR (Fidelity). To avoid repeating them, we will now call them the “big four.”

Goldman Sachs:

“The big four,” Wellington, Capital World Investors, AXA, Massachusetts Financial Service and T. Rowe.

Morgan Stanley:

“The big four,” Mitsubishi UFJ, Franklin Resources, AXA, T. Rowe, Bank of NY Mellon e Jennison Associates. Rowe, Bank of NY Mellon and Jennison Associates.

We can just about always verify the names of major shareholders. To go further, we can now try to find out the shareholders of these companies and shareholders of major banks worldwide.

Bank of NY Mellon:

Davis Selected, Massachusetts Financial Services, Capital Research Global Investor, Dodge, Cox, Southeatern Asset Mgmt. and … “The big four.”

State Street Corporation (one of the “big four”):

Massachusetts Financial Services, Capital Research Global Investor, Barrow Hanley, GE, Putnam Investment and … The “big four” (shareholders themselves!).

BlackRock (another of the “big four”):

PNC, Barclays e CIC.

Who is behind the PNC? FMR (Fidelity), BlackRock, State Street, etc.

And behind Barclays? BlackRock.

And we could go on for hours, passing by tax havens in the Cayman Islands, Monaco or the legal domicile of Shell companies in Liechtenstein. A network where companies are always the same, but never a name of a family.

In short: the eight largest U.S. financial companies (JP Morgan, Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, U.S. Bancorp, Bank of New York Mellon and Morgan Stanley) are 100% controlled by ten shareholders and we have four companies always present in all decisions: BlackRock, State Street, Vanguard and Fidelity.

In addition, the Federal Reserve is comprised of 12 banks, represented by a board of seven people, which comprises representatives of the “big four,” which in turn are present in all other entities.

In short, the Federal Reserve is controlled by four large private companies: BlackRock, State Street, Vanguard and Fidelity. These companies control U.S. monetary policy (and world) without any control or “democratic” choice.

These companies launched and participated in the current worldwide economic crisis and managed to become even more enriched.

To finish, a look at some of the companies controlled by this “big four” group

Alcoa Inc.
Altria Group Inc.
American International Group Inc.
AT&T Inc.
Boeing Co.
Caterpillar Inc.
Coca-Cola Co.
DuPont & Co.
Exxon Mobil Corp.
General Electric Co.
General Motors Corporation
Hewlett-Packard Co.
Home Depot Inc.
Honeywell International Inc.
Intel Corp.
International Business Machines Corp
Johnson & Johnson
JP Morgan Chase & Co.
McDonald’s Corp.
Merck & Co. Inc.
Microsoft Corp.
3M Co.
Pfizer Inc.
Procter & Gamble Co.
United Technologies Corp.
Verizon Communications Inc.
Wal-Mart Stores Inc.
Time Warner
Walt Disney
Viacom
Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation.,
CBS Corporation
NBC Universal

The same “big four” control the vast majority of European companies counted on the stock exchange.

In addition, all these people run the large financial institutions, such as the IMF, the European Central Bank or the World Bank, and were “trained” and remain “employees” of the “big four” that formed them.

The names of the families that control the “big four”, never appear.

=======
I wonder which faction of the illuminati runs the company BlackRock :sherlock:

http://musicians4freedom.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Saturn-Cult-500x254.jpg

A Voice from the Mountains

12th August 2018, 16:55

Jayke

14th August 2018, 09:04

Some of the paradoxes that have arisen from this thread.

1. The Phoenician Canaanites were apparently Semitic and parasitic, yet Robert Sepehr provides evidence that early Germans and vikings were Phoenician Caucasians, who were brave and noble?
2. The chronology of history appears to have been forged? Yet it also appears to be accurate?
3. Miles Mathis provides evidence that the Ancient Spooks were a global hegemony, even in ancient times, but if they had such great dominance, why would they have needed to develop the Protocols of Zion as a way to subjugate entire populations to their will?

This looks like a strong contender for the issue of reconciling the paradoxes...was Jesus a Phoenician? The data points in this video certainly tie a hell-of-a-lot of anomalous features together for me (beyond even those discussed in this thread), I’ll have to wait for his book to arrive to see how strong the scholarship is before coming to any strong conclusions, but it certainly looks promising so far.

TunLVZDxC-w
A couple key points he raises:

The Phoenician God Adonis stems from the same as the Egyptian god venerated by Akhenaten (Adon = Aten)
Yh-shu (god of the sea) becomes Yahweh.
The gospel of James (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_James) describes the early life of Jesus mother Mary, and talks of her role in the temples as dying silks purple (the Miles Mathis “Phoenician monopoly on purple cloth trade” connection).

Among others, a very interesting presentation!

shaberon

29th August 2018, 23:43

The distinction is roughly the same as mind and instinct. Do the instincts exist in the mind, yes, but which is in charge?...

I'd suggest this is a pretty important distinction: Saturn Archon has been completely bottled and used for extremely nefarious purposes, but it is not the "real" Saturn, it is mankind's adoration of its shadow.

Excellent distinction! That does make a lot of sense, I like it. :star:

The Saturnalian cult is all about flipping the natural order, where servants get to parade around as kings for a day. What was the Buddha’s quote, where he says something along the lines of ‘in the end of days, the world will be ruled by plunderers and thieves’, sounds like an accurate description of our current state of political affairs.

This goes one more big step in that understanding the man-like dual nature of Saturn (or any planet) is quite similar to the doctrine of Two Adams: Primordial Adam, the original Divine Man or Purusha, the real mental-spiritual, androgynous, virginal man, too pure to work in gross matter, and---Adam of Dust, imbued with the animal soul.

Saturn--Archon breathes mortal life into Adam of Dust and from that standpoint can start to claim all of creation as its provenance. Teachings oriented towards physiology and form, and eternal consequences from one brief incarnation, are the mentality of this Archon, and then its shadow so to speak blocks the light of Saturn's higher nature, interferes with understanding the intended process of "be fruitful and multiply".

From that standpoint, I would agree that Saturn in the sense of the Archon has been bottled and packaged as an artificial substitute for the greater, and that this is employed by most modern religions. They even pretended to release it by the Reformation and counter-Reformation, which, perhaps with minor exceptions, should be seen as controlled opposition of their time.

Now from within that group of packagers, some of them more knowledgeable may utilize various rites based on the metal lead, color black, big black rocks and cubes and so forth, with human or other sacrifices, but this knowledge is very limited and either turns on you during life or at some point inevitably. They are mistaken, because, if you examine the spectrum, you will not find black.

Venice was "nominally" Catholic but had everything under its belt; one of the first printed magical grimoires is from there.

To simplify, I compare them to France. It appears the Franks and Venetians were both...nobody...to begin with. It is tough to tie either one directly to Babylon, or the post-Alexandran governates, etc., one could try but there may not be much to go on. Such as the claim Merovingians descend from Jesus. Maybe. But ca. year 200 they were nobodies around the Rhine until Clovis managed to dominate and unify all Franks, so, we may notice the area now named for them is not original but invaded/occupied. These became lavish, wasteful rulers usurped by the Carolignians, which seems legitimate, as they did the actual work of leadership. Charlemagne was the end result.

In his time, France was ardently Catholic, which meant two things. It was important for kings to be recognized by the pope, and the newish Venice pretty much hated staunch Catholicism. So he goes to the pope and is completely surprised when he's given the crown of Holy Roman Emperor. As far as I can tell, this had nothing to do with Charlemagne or France, and the pope of the time handed it out because, apparently, earthly empires were his to distribute. It may have taken Venice a little longer to build up power than by simply being handed such a crown, and there again, most of their power was from bribes and the silver tongue of playing bigger sides against each other. The bigger sides were primarily Western: Rome and what it could control of France, Austria, etc., and Eastern, Byzantine, Orthodox, and really more of a "capital" from around 500 B. C. to 1450 due to Turks with Venetian backing or encouragement.

Eventually, Venetian-based international finance no longer needed this original country. Around that time, also, the French Revolution was much more complex than the American. Although it was likely originally a somewhat justified revolt, its success was replaced by the Terror. This was fairly brief because even its spokesperson Robespierre was terrified of another conspiracy no one dared mention. This being English-backed. Afterwards, Napoleon, I am not sure, he seems to be an unplanned consequence. But from around this bad mixing of revolutionaries, then yes, you soon reach a point of it taking a serious look to figure out what may have been just, and what was a rented mob, mind-controlled gang, etc. At any rate, France is never again the right hand of the pope as it was. Instead, England is going to fry Germany, its former ally and source of its monarchs, for economical reasons, and be mostly allied to France, where, at least the government, seems to run a vast Zionist apology.

It's intriguing, because both the pope and Venice had little of their own boots-on-the-ground type of power, and had to rely on whoever they could command, trick, buy, etc.

Jayke

30th August 2018, 09:10

To simplify, I compare them to France. It appears the Franks and Venetians were both...nobody...to begin with. It is tough to tie either one directly to Babylon, or the post-Alexandran governates, etc., one could try but there may not be much to go on. Such as the claim Merovingians descend from Jesus. Maybe. But ca. year 200 they were nobodies around the Rhine until Clovis managed to dominate and unify all Franks, so, we may notice the area now named for them is not original but invaded/occupied. These became lavish, wasteful rulers usurped by the Carolignians, which seems legitimate, as they did the actual work of leadership. Charlemagne was the end result.

I’ve found a couple tangential connections for the Merovingians, nothing conclusive, but enough to widen the search for something more solid.

The first was the private musings of an anonymous Catholic Priest who wrote an intriguing article claiming the Merovingians originally came from Meroe (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meroë), Sudan (famous for its abundance of small pyramids).

http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/post/infiltration.html

...Pachiomius of Egypt (292-348): an ascetic brother of the sun, founder of NINE monasteries. He is the historical founder of cenobitic monasticism which rule Benedict later made generous use of. A pestilence wiped out Pachiomius and 100 of his monks in 348. Sixteen hundred years later the Nag Hammadi papyrus, gnostic writings, were unearthed near one of the monasteries of Pachiomius in Pabau. Pachiomius passed his cloak to St. Martin of Tours who then lived in Pannonia, the first mainland European home of Merovingians, originally from Meroe, ancient Ethiopia (part of ancient Egypt). Martin of Tours (316-397): Son of a pagan, Martin lived as a hermit in Pannonia before even hearing of Christianity. Upon receiving his cloak, Martin then cut his cloak in half and gave half of it to a poorly clad beggar “converting” to Christianity. Likewise, the 1st Merovingian king, Childeric, who arrived in Gaul from the same Pannonia, cut a silver coin in half (Silver Brotherhood) and went forth to Ireland to become St. Patrick which is why the world’s Masons celebrate St. Patrick (more on this shortly)

Another interesting connection featured in the book ‘Mythology of the Babylonian People’ by Donald A Mackenzie, who talks about the Merodach priesthood in Babylon. After doing a little digging online, it turns out Merodach was a westernised way of saying ‘Marduk’ (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marduk-apla-iddina_II). It isn’t much to go off. I have heard some other sources claim the Merovingians were the hired muscle, sent in by the Venetian oligarchs to destabilise the area for conquest.

There’s an excellent book by Alvise Zorzi — Venice, the Golden Age, 697 - 1797 (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3712934-venice-the-golden-age-697-1797). An interesting claim made by Zorzi (a Venetian noble insider) is that the Venitian empire eventually fell due to Napoleons rise (https://byronico.com/2014/01/23/venice-after-the-fall-casanova-1797-da-ponte-1798-hobhouse-and-byron-1816/) (...Or, did they just move their operation to the city of London and Washington DC?). What’s also interesting in this book is how much you realise the oligarchs were just as much a nuisance to most noble-minded Venetians, as they were to other countries. The Venetians went through elaborate lengths to elect their Doge, to ensure the Venetian king couldn’t shape policy by himself and gain the power to become a tyrant. Ultimately though, the oligarchs found a way through these elaborate methods and the Doge just became another source of profits for them, a spokesman to distract people’s attention while they continued their profiteering out of sight.

One author to watch is Dr Ioanna Iordanou (https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/ren/about_us/centrestaff/iordanou/), she’s got a book out next year ‘Venice's Secret Service: Intelligence Organisation in the Renaissance’, which looks like it’ll have some revealing content on the Venetian Council of Ten, it’s origins and lineage.

shaberon

31st August 2018, 09:53

I am not sure if we can really determine Merovech, or if he was a real person, but the dynasty seems pretty definitely rooted in his "son" Childeric, of whom, according to Wikipedia: "Among the greatest discoveries of lost objects was the 1653 accidental uncovering of Childeric I's tomb in the church of Saint Brice in Tournai. The grave objects included a golden bull's head and the famous golden insects (perhaps bees, cicadas, aphids, or flies) on which Napoleon modelled his coronation cloak."

My guess is the Franks were a bit early for Venice to have been behind them. The Republic of Venice came to an end around 1814. Yes, it was notorious for having a "mouthpiece" Doge or Duke who could not interfere with the Council. This Council I would call more or less the Pillar of Wealth used later to establish the bank of Antwerp, then Brussels, Amsterdam, London. That's what I mean by wealth moving to an international/global scale, the original city of Venice no longer being needed to support it, and so I believe it surrendered without a fight. Although there had been a lot of fights prior to that.

The French Revolution--fall of Venice all happened while the Jesuits were disbanded from 1773-1814, which was just because they had been kicked out of every country for interfering politically. One of the main differences in the method is that Jesuits wholeheartedly obey central authority, whereas the Venetians do not have one.

Zorzi is dialectal for Giorgi, so perhaps the author of Venice--Golden Age is related to Francesco Giorgi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Giorgi), who comes up in the LaRouche literature as Zorzi.

But while the Jesuits had no agency or office, many of them as individuals retained good jobs at universities and the like. They still had some influence, but, at least temporarily, were not a power, or "international finance" machine. So what would that have been? Bank of England (1694 and forward). Around 1776, I believe there was a bloc who understood this threat and wished to oppose it, constituted by Marie Antoinette (France), Maria Theresa (Austria), Catherine the Great (Russia), and the American colonies. Yes, that is to suggest that some Catholics and Hapsburgs were against the pest. I just don't think you can take a name like Hapsburg or even Rothschild and make a blanket statement that they all believe the same thing or all act in the same way. Nor is it to suggest those people were impeccable saints or always made the best decisions, but I think they became wise to what happened in England and did not want it to root in their soil.

Consequently, you find the British Empire then giving them various cases of internal rot and wars. The U. S. particularly seems to have forgotten everything and given up on itself, and just became another one of their sock puppets. If the Federal Reserve is not a horrendous denial of the Constitution, and the victory of "international finance" over any type of resistance, I don't know what would be. The 14th Amendment was perhaps a slightly prior equivalent swindle, it mostly just changed slavery "a person is property" into corporatism "property is a person". Original American use of corporations was that they were limited to twenty year charter, were rarely renewed, and instead were frequently dissolved; also, they were mostly used for public works such as roads and canals. It definitely was not something you could run out of a post office box under a judge's protection like it is now.

If you look at that, you can start to figure out the legal-ese language, for example what a "person" is, which may expose the swindle of "democracy", since the U. S. was formed to prevent democracy--a situation which allows any minority to be easily oppressed, mob rule. They confess their swindle every day, openly, by saying we are one and we support democracy world wide.

If there is, so to speak, a headquarters, probably Bank of International Settlements, but is the U. S. basically trod under foot of Jesuits and British Fabians, yes, rather completely. Meanwhile, Russia has managed to dust itself off from a great amount of such foreign domination. That place is like the phoenix. One little tap on the U. S. and I think it will splinter into eight or ten pieces; its future looks negative, like it's already gone and no one's admitted it yet.

I was wondering if anyone would ever say the Venetian people did not generally like their government either. In most cases, it seems to me the major threat is really from private individuals/businesses, and a government is the only thing that could possibly stop them.

Jayke

8th September 2018, 09:14

Dan Gibson discusses the Nabateans, the Merchants without a home, no loyalties to any nation yet influential in all empires. Around the 15 minute mark he discusses how the Nabateans remained bonded as a cohesive entity despite being spread throughout the developed world. A yearly pilgrimage to Petra (or other sacred family burial places hidden throughout the desert) which gives me an impression of an early version of the Bilderberg meetings. Gibson points out that the Nabateans are mentioned in texts as early as Mesopotamian culture, and can be traced through history, still plying their same trades today. He mentions that after Petra fell out of fashion, they moved the heart of their operations to Alexandria, and then to Rome, taking on Latinised family names as they moved. Another strand in the Saturnalian cult thread worth paying attention to?

iYV2YzhTKI0

ThePythonicCow

9th September 2018, 01:58

Dan Gibson discusses the Nabateans, the Merchants without a home, no loyalties to any nation yet influential in all empires. ...
Interesting - good listen - thanks.

shaberon

9th September 2018, 07:06

The related website (http://nabataea.net/who.html) says a bit about them and what stands out to me is they are depicted as counter rivals or outsiders to the Edomites.

The Edomites overran Judea and it is largely in what I call the Edomite--Pharisee lineage that the abuse of Saturn takes place, redacted scriptures and altered religion and politics into a method of oppression still used today. Called on the page, "Idumaeans."

He says the Nabateans then occupied Edom and there were ties, "Even after the Nabataeans replaced and absorbed the Edomites, ties between the Idumaeans and the Nabataeans continued, as is illustrated by the family of Herod the Great, whose father was an Idumaean and his mother a Nabataean."

They did not ultimately support Herod.

Jayke

9th September 2018, 10:21

You might really like the book mentioned in post 86, Shaberon. ‘Jesus the Phoenician (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/19336422-jesus-the-phoenician)’ by Karim El Koussa. The book is so rich in detail, that although Karim doesn’t mention it explicitly, my suspicion is that he writes as a spokesman of the Druze tradition.

Part 3 of the book, chapter 7 (starting on page 153), is titled ‘The Cultural and Religious Entourage at the Time of Christ’. Immediately the chapter starts off with the origins of the Great White Brotherhood and The Babylonian Brotherhood, tracking both lineages through the their dynastic lines. The Babylonian through the Pharisee (pharsi=Persian) connections; and the White fraternity through the Pharaonic, Pythagorean line. He claims Jesus the Phoenician was a descendant of the Pythagorean tradition, and based on the richness of detail he shares, I can believe it.

If you’ve ever read Uriels Machine (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/621790.Uriel_s_Machine), Karims book is like a follow on that gives insight into the culture and traditions of the Temple building ‘Watchers’ that Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas discuss with their research. The Enochian tradition that splintered from the original, pure, teaching to give rise to the Araonite priesthood (the Babylonian misuse of ancient wisdom for egoic power and carnal gain).

shaberon

9th September 2018, 14:52

If it has an online format, that would be snazzy.

There are a few basic formats of Gnosticism, which, I think off the top of my head, are Mosaic (Jewish), Sethian, and Mandean, which generally vary by which patriarchs or prophets they accept.

The Nabatheans are close to Mandean in upholding the lineage of John the Baptist. Roughly put, he was a major figure in disciplic succession; Jesus himself was perhaps a bit more powerful, but with his time cut short, a lot of skullduggery taking place, subsequent generations of his followers really made a mess. The Nestorian branch has always at least been accepted in the East, for instance if you look at Mogao Cave, it was clearly a sort of debate center or meeting ground between Nestorians, Buddhists, and a couple other creeds. Similar to Alexandria. Taxila was another; Alexander the Great was totally blown away by seeing the place.

I hold that Jesus was born Ebionite--Nasorean and trained Therapeutae, and that Pythagoras was related, him being the chief impulse of the system in Greece, which Plato inherited and Aristotle turned his back on it. I cannot say if Therapeutae is a descendant of Pythagoras, but a close cousin, definitely.

I believe that is also correct to finger the Aaronite priesthood; initiates of the Mosaic line being Levites.

Interestingly about the Nabatheans is that a great source of their wealth was Felix Arabia--Yemen--Saba. The Sabeans are considerably older than the Nabatheans appear to be; same thing as Sheba with the famous Queen. Nabatheans kept relatively few slaves compared to others. I'm not familiar with them as a distinct nation, but ok: they gained Edom when its former inhabitants became the Judeans. One of the main points to that Edomite takeover is that in terms of ritual purity, Judea was annihilated, and thus the same name got stuck on someone it didn't belong to.

Perhaps more powerful than Jesus in his time was Apollonius of Tyana, whom, along with Simon Magus, considerable attempts have been made to erase or demonize. Byblos, a significant town in composition of the Bible, was used because it was already a center of literary distribution, but then plausibly it descended into a state of manufacturing scriptures according to requests.