Passenger plane stolen from SeaTac. What are the options?

[O Donna]

Passenger plane stolen from Sea-Tac. My question to those with commercial aviation knowledge, what were the options on bringing down the airliner to avoid loss of life in such a populated area?

1) shoot down
2) jam electronics or remote take over? (guessing the plane was not capable of being taken over remotely but maybe?)
3) other

I take my shoes off at the airport, cannot take much liquid carry-on, turn off electronics before flight, body scans etc etc. And yet this happens.

Bombardier Dash 8/ Q400

https://www.aerospace-technology.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2017/10/Q400_1.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e5f-fWDlAg

Conversation with Tower (interesting)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GzroZxwhJg

Ref (https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/unauthorized-take-off-of-passenger-plane-at-sea-tac-officials-say/810705229)

[Ron Mauer Sr]

The pilot had to have a lot of experience to start the engines, get it in the air and land that dual engine turbo prop. I am just a licensed private pilot, Single Engine Land. I could not do it without significant training in that specific aircraft.

[KiwiElf]

The pilot had to have a lot of experience to start the engines, get it in the air and land that dual engine turbo prop. I am just a licensed private pilot, Single Engine Land. I could not do it without significant training in that specific aircraft.

Ditto!

Just added some similar sentiments in answer to Star Mariner on the "Q" thread, Ron. (Please correct me if I'm wrong - you have WAYYY more experience than me!)

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters--Nov-2017-and-beyond-&p=1241306#post1241306
-------------------------------------------
I agree Star Mariner (way beyond fishy); one doesn't just "turn the key" and start a turbo prop airplane like a car! It's quite a procedure! (despite the BS we're hearing in the media - first time I've heard of a turbine aircraft having "ignition keys"!) (Most small single-engined piston airplanes DO have an "ignition key" similar to a car starter, but there are a lot of other levers & buttons you have to operate before that!) In [most] twins & turbine aircraft, all you need is access to the cabin, but you still have to know HOW to start them - no "keys" necessary, other than to unlock the door)! ;)

(He's a mechanic but has no idea of the fuel flow or that it's measured in pounds, But... he can do loops & barrel rolls??).

Not an easy thing to do with an airliner by a non-pilot. Even if the "video games" he refers to included Flight Simulator, I seriously doubt he could have done this; FSim ain't the same as a real airplane! Whoever is flying that plane is showing some real "air show" flying skills. (refer to other videos)

Was said "pilot/thief" even on the plane? :sherlock:

Someone should have noticed straight away that it was an unauthorised start up; (that in itself takes a few minutes), it could have easily been blocked from taxiing - let alone taking off - by a car, truck or other vehicle.

I don't buy it.
--------------------------------------------

[O Donna]

I don't buy it.
--------------------------------------------

That is the sense I get. Seems more of an extraordinary event then the media is portraying it as. Realizing I am not connected to the aviation industry is why I hoped for a glimpse of understanding from Avalon pilots and others knowledgeable in the field. Thanks Ron and KiwiElf
.

[Joe from the Carolinas]

The feds were very quick to say this wasn’t terrorism, and, it was too early to release details. Seems the passengers are more stable and safer than the staff.

The facade of airport security is finally coming to light. How about those in-flight meals, I wonder how much security those go through?

How about who delivers them?

[KiwiElf]

"Q" felt it important enough to mention it, O Donna. (See earlier post 6180 onward from the "Q" thread and comments/links/videos at the end of the post):

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters--Nov-2017-and-beyond-/page309

... or the actual "Q" website itself (scroll down a bit, it's #1845-1846):

https://qanon.app/

(This is the "Q" post - of course, it's open to interpretation):
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1846

Q !!mG7VJxZNCI ID: a92e3a No.2556723 📁
Aug 11 2018 14:07:01 (EST)

Q !!mG7VJxZNCI ID: a92e3a No.2556646 📁
Aug 11 2018 14:03:15 (EST)
1534006548899.jpg
⬇
38742

Autists catch the message?
Think missile.
Do you believe in coincidences?
Q

>>2556646
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/11/us/seattle-plane-crash-stolen.html
BOOM
<>BOOM
<><>BOOM
<><><>BOOM
[NEXT WEEK]
Q
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Hip Hipnotist]

Here is a video showing a 'fight sim only pilot' in a real, full motion simulator doing a 'bang up' ( not literally ) job of
handling a Boing 737 for the first time. There are many more videos basically showing non real world pilots, even young kids
accomplishing the same task. Yes. It is well within the realm of possibility to 'steal' an aircraft, even the 'heavy iron' just
from learning to fly on your very own HP laptop.

Would I recommend it? Not a chance.

This non real pilot WAS a sim pilot as he stated in his transmissions with ATC. Seems to me this was 'suicide by intentionally
crashing a stolen aircraft'. No terrorist. No conspiracy. Just a wannabe real world pilot with some seriously loose propellers.

There is flight sim aircraft software for just about any aircraft, including the one in this situation that is as 'real as it gets'. Every gauge, button, lever, switch, control etc. as the real mccoy. And you have to follow real cockpit procedures or you ain't gonna get it started much less get into the air. I know because I have probably a hundred such aircraft.

I'm also a pilot. 40 years now and counting. Also worked as a 'line technician' ( same as the plane thief was ) when working on my commercial 25+ years ago. As a line tech/aircraft fueler/parker I had access to any and all aircraft at any time when parked on the tarmac same as any line tech does. Most ( judging by the fact that I don't recall anyone else attempting this ) line techs aren't interested in stealing, stunting and crashing airplanes. But it can, and was accomplished. ;-(


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfdpuBg8uvI

[KiwiElf]

This non real pilot WAS a sim pilot as he stated in his transmissions with ATC. Seems to me this was 'suicide by intentionally
crashing a stolen aircraft'. No terrorist. No conspiracy. Just a wannabe real world pilot with some seriously loose propellers.



Do you have a video reference/link where he says he was a sim pilot please, Hip? I heard him say;

"I played video games before so I know what I'm doing a little bit."

Am well aware that an experienced Sim Pilot can fly a real plane. (There was the case of a teenager stealing a Citation Jet many years ago, altho not quite in the same league as a Dash 8).

I appreciate your flying experience vastly outweighs my own, and if "Q" hadn't mentioned it, I'd otherwise agree. (I don't know if you've been following the "Q" thread), but in the context of Q's post about it (above), perhaps we should be paying attention to it being something other than the MSM version of events. :)

Cheers :thumbsup:

[Innocent Warrior]

Adding a bit of context, here’s what was said over the radio.

ATC “Right now he’s just flying around and he just needs some help controlling his aircraft.”
Rich “Nah, I mean, I don’t need that much help, I’ve played some video games before. I would like to figure out how to get this...make it pressurised or something so I’m not so light headed.”

Here he tells them he’s going to loop it and if that goes well then he’s going nose down and calling it a night (paraphrasing). That audio is played over footage that appears to be before he crashed.
gutKuNSppIo

Here you can see the plane loop and the jets following (wow).
LeYVtVg6aGs

He reportedly looped and then crashed into the woods shortly after, as he said he would. It was claimed that the jets contacted him by radio before he went down but I didn’t keep a link because it’s unverifiable. Makes sense to me though, even if they did, they wouldn’t let him fly over a populated area (one would hope). Maybe they warned him or something after he looped the plane, but it seems shooting the plane down wasn’t necessary. MSM is still pushing their usual, tired agendas while reporting it but I agree with Hip. That’s quite an exit.

[O Donna]

Quite an exit for sure!! There will be no "Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week" from this 'pilot'.

Flights sims have been around for a few decades now, surprised this hasn't been attempted before.

One wonders if copycats are on the horizon. Let's hope not.

[enigma3]

Talk about a coincidence! Q400 on the plane. I'm ready for a SerialBrain2 translation of this.

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Talk about a coincidence! Q400 on the plane. I'm ready for a SerialBrain2 translation of this.


That was my thought . . .and then Q's statement: There are no coincidences.

Underneath Q400, it says Next Gen (next generation, next general? or ??)
on the tail it says: www.Q400.com
when I go to that website, this comes up:

You've requested a page on a website (www.q400.com) that is on the Cloudflare network. Cloudflare is currently unable to resolve your requested domain (www.q400.com). There are two potential causes of this:

Most likely: if the owner just signed up for Cloudflare it can take a few minutes for the website's information to be distributed to our global network.
Less likely: something is wrong with this site's configuration. Usually this happens when accounts have been signed up with a partner organization (e.g., a hosting provider) and the provider's DNS fails.

[O Donna]

I think we can all agree that the incident sent a message. What that message is is up for some debate.

One possible message I got was a reminder that those people with means may very well send each other spectacular messages to the other that are veiled from the general public.

Imaging a world where money is no object and as such, the power to manipulate is at hand. What the average person would think impossible or the machinations of a conspirator mind, those with the means and access to the necessary intelligence can (pull off).

There are two world superimposed on each other. The everyday world of the average life and then there is the world that the average person without means can only imagine and yet see the real possibility it exists if they did (have the means). History (recent and past) is littered with stories of those that have had a glimpse or more of this higher phenomenal world(s).

[RunningDeer]

"Q" felt it important enough to mention it, O Donna. (See earlier post 6180 onward from the "Q" thread and comments/links/videos at the end of the post):

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters--Nov-2017-and-beyond-/page309

Thanks, Kiwi. :wave: Post # 6180 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters--Nov-2017-and-beyond-&p=1241287&viewfull=1#post1241287)


http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/images/space-bar-grey.jpg

How to link to a specific post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66104-How-to-Tips-with-Visuals-for-Links-Quotes-Images-etc.&p=943283&viewfull=1#post943283):

1) Click on “link to post” which is found on the top, right of each post. (This brings the post to the top of the page.)

http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/How-to-Tips/images/link-to-post.jpg

2) Copy address.

http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/How-to-Tips/images/copy-address.jpg

3) Create link. For instruction on how to create a link click here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66104-How-to-Tips-with-Visuals-for-Links-Quotes-Images-etc.&p=766961&viewfull=1#post766961).

:offtopic:

[eagle0027]

I am finding this whole play by play while happening released to the world incident rather sketchie.
When does this ever happen???no loved ones trying to talk him out of doing himself???they had a fair amount of time.
As well...with the crash site as close to population as it is ..where are pics of the crash site???...coast guard boat sent????No choppers???news ones possibly???the apparent crash site posted looks about as suspisious as the 167 ft wingspan jet apparently folding up its wings and creating a 16ft wide path into the pentigon.
When is there not news pics of a plane crash site???

[RunningDeer]

https://i.imgur.com/uxmN8QS.jpg

@ 8:21 (https://youtu.be/NWab3XRs1Yw?t=8m12s) - crash scene & aerial map

Unrelated to vid below: Aerial view (https://www.miamiherald.com/latest-news/article216518645.html) of stolen plane crash site on Ketron Island - (1:12 minutes)


Complete coverage: Stolen plane crashes on Ketron Island
NWab3XRs1Yw

{article (https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/plane-stolen-from-sea-tac-flew-more-than-an-hour-before-crash/281-582563371)}

[O Donna]

Another perspective of the incident:

Richard Russell, Who Stole Plane Near Seattle, Raises Troubling Security Questions

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/08/12/us/12-xp-pilot-russell/merlin_142233552_741f28ca-da03-4263-aa47-2fd6d076b68c-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp
Richard B. Russell, a ground service agent at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport. Credit via social media

By Kirk Johnson, Jacey Fortin and Christina Caron
Aug. 11, 2018

SEATTLE — The story is as bizarre as it is tragic: An airline worker who had no business being in a cockpit somehow took off from a major airport in a turboprop passenger plane, dipped and soared in the skies above the Seattle area, and then crashed into an island on Puget Sound.

It was all over in about an hour. But the consequences of the unauthorized flight on Friday evening are monumental, aviation experts and investigators said.

The man — a ground service agent identified as Richard B. Russell, according to a law enforcement official — exposed a troubling reality of airport security in the post-9/11 era. While many visible aspects of commercial flight that affect the routines of passengers have been hardened, parts of the system that are behind the scenes, but just as important to public safety as cockpit doors and screening machines, remain vulnerable. Continued here (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/11/us/seatac-stolen-plane-richard-b-russell.html).

[Deux Corbeaux]

Maybe it was a bet that went wrong for the overconfident "stunt pilot".

[Hervé]

...


... Seattle (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103369-Gang-Stalking-V2K-Testimony-by-Private-Security-Whistleblower&p=1233382&viewfull=1#post1233382), eh!?


RSwTJMdaivI

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Did he crash while attempting to pull out of a loop or was it later? You cannot feel the G forces on a flight simulator and G forces must be managed. Excessive G force can create a stall (loss of lift from the wings).

Aerobatics can be fun. My experience (http://ronmauer.net/blog/?page_id=7494) with an instructor.

[Hip Hipnotist]

This non real pilot WAS a sim pilot as he stated in his transmissions with ATC. Seems to me this was 'suicide by intentionally
crashing a stolen aircraft'. No terrorist. No conspiracy. Just a wannabe real world pilot with some seriously loose propellers.



Do you have a video reference/link where he says he was a sim pilot please, Hip? I heard him say;

"I played video games before so I know what I'm doing a little bit."

Am well aware that an experienced Sim Pilot can fly a real plane. (There was the case of a teenager stealing a Citation Jet many years ago, altho not quite in the same league as a Dash 8).

I appreciate your flying experience vastly outweighs my own, and if "Q" hadn't mentioned it, I'd otherwise agree. (I don't know if you've been following the "Q" thread), but in the context of Q's post about it (above), perhaps we should be paying attention to it being something other than the MSM version of events. :)

Cheers :thumbsup:

Hello, KiwElf.

What you heard him say is correct, "I played video games before so I know what I'm doing a little." I stretched my imagination ( I do that sometimes -- although if you think about the fact that this guy works around, is in, tows, fuels etc. airplanes that if he's playing 'video games' he's 'probably' referring to flight sims. ) Feel free to castrate me if I'm wrong. NOT!!

Case in point; some time ago I took an associate and his son, the boy being twelve years old flying. The kid had never been in an airplane much less fly one. But he was proficient on flight sims. With my supervision ( jeez, there's a frightening thought ) he started, ( couldn't taxi 'cause his feet couldn't reach the rudder pedals ) took off; fly, turn, climb, descend; fly the pattern and landed well enough to have passed a check ride. Well, perhaps not a flight check but you get the point. This 'kid' was more than proficient at flying an airplane. No, it wasn't a jet but I can't fly a jet either. Well, I could but I'd get my certificate pulled. :Angel:

You CAN fly a real aircraft from learning on a simulator. And I'm referring to a home pc not a full blown, full motion super expensive airline training simulator. Is this true for anyone? Heck no! No two humans are the same. Two people with the same sim training could have seriously different results. But again, you get the picture.

Here is just ONE example of hundreds of aircraft available to flight sim enthusiasts and this is several years old. It's also similar to the one in question. You can get the exact aircraft in question if you search for it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_pyJHsGwMw

And yes, you can do loop-de-loops, barrel rolls, knife edges, low passes etc. in a real aircraft from flight sims as long as you don't rip the wings off! And in my opinion this chap was LUCKY he didn't.

And if ya wanna worry yourself to sleepless nights consider this; sophisticated sims for home use don't stop at flight sims. Trains, tanks, nuclear submarines...

"Lions, tigers and bears, oh my!!" :bigsmile:

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Is there something about Ketron island itself? This could be incidental, but the island (site of crash) is apparently home to a children's psyche hospital.


"On Ketron Cottage, we have a full schedule. Every part of the schedule is focused on helping Patients learn and grow in a safe, caring, and effective place. If you are like most kids who come here, you have tough problems with thinking, feeling, or behaving; and have been through other programs or treatment centers.

We do our best to understand how you think, feel, and behave. We also want to understand ideas from your family and others who have worked with you, so we can be more effective for you."

Maybe it's more than it appears...

https://www.dshs.wa.gov/sites/default/files/BHSIA/dsh/documents/Ketron%20Program%20Manual.pdf

:sherlock:

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Right around 2:00 in this video posted in the lst post, He comments: I would like to figure out how to get this pressurized or something so I'm not so lightheaded.

Is it possible he blacked out, or became semi-conscious. Also, I thought it was interesting that the guy on the other end didn't respond to that request. Realize he had lots on his plate, but even someone like me knows (or thinks I know!) that you can lose consciousness and if he's already lightheaded, doesn't that mean lack of oxygen?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GzroZxwhJg

[Bill Ryan]

Right around 2:00 in this video posted in the last post, He comments: I would like to figure out how to get this pressurized or something so I'm not so lightheaded.
[ ... ]
...doesn't that mean lack of oxygen?

It was a strange comment. His altitude wasn't high, at all... he was only ever a few hundred feet above sea level, a couple of thousand at the most. There was certainly plenty enough oxygen, and he should have known that. That indicates he wasn't thinking clearly, for whatever reasons.

But it surely has to be possible (it seems to me) that he was on drugs or meds of some kind, or maybe just alcohol. His happy-go-lucky, super-friendly radio chat does seem to suggest that.

[Hip Hipnotist]

Put anyone in that situation, first time real world pilot or passengers where an aircraft of any size is performing erratic negative/positive g maneuvers and dollars to donuts you're gonna get light headed if not puke your guts out. In fact, if not mistaken I believe I heard him say to atc that he did puke. :crazy_pilot:

And if he were to have 'blacked out' I doubt whether he would have recovered in time
to have prevented what eventually did happen. Not enough altitude.

And I'd agree with BR that he was probably 'on something'.

[KiwiElf]

Hi Hip,

Thank you for your reply. Much appreciated. Thought I'd missed something amongst the videos.

Oh, you don't have to convince me of the "reality" of Flight Sims (or any others); :) I took my first flying Lesson at 13 (and could barely reach the pedals... or see over the panel either!), and over the years progressed to PP. The biggest (real) plane I actually flew was a Cessna 206.

I Started Flightsimming in the late 90's with FS98 to practice the real thing (remember those quaint little stick figure airplanes?? One needed a lot of imagination!) Have been a huge fan ever since, (I've been "mad about aviation/flying/airplanes" since before I could walk!) and like you, have a "hangar" of 100+ airplanes I would never be able to fly in real life, right up to Concorde. (The cold & dark start on that beastie is a BOOK!) :) :thumbsup:

FSXSE is my flavour of choice; (and it's the primary teaching tool of Massey University's Flying Schools in NZ). I have P3D but not yet used (I'm still loading lotsa ORBX sceneries & the installer get confused between the two ;)).

(Did a thread on it here way back):
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?33781-Virtual-Reality-in-Microsoft-Flight-Simulator-FSX

I did have the opportunity to fly the 737 simulator a couple of times (this is the real cockpit sim; you'd swear you were sitting in the real thing, with every button, knob, light & lever faithfully reproduced). Wasn't difficult at all! (Try the flight from Kathmandu to Paro, Bhutan... it works up a REAL sweat!)

But importantly, in the back of our minds, when we're flying a Sim, we know we're NOT going to be harmed, killed and even if we do "crash", it isn't real.

OK, back to topic. Bear with me... You like to "stretch your imagination", so do I, but I have a very "suspicious" mind as well LOL :sherlock:

IMO the "pilot" of this little excursion sounded like he was under more than the influence of KoolAid.

He may well have practiced on a sim (speculation on my/our behalf), and I'd accept he could have learned the startup procedure as part of his job, a FSim, or POH.

It's what came after that which bothers me; (how did he get to takeoff without someone stopping him?) Stealing a lightplane is one thing. Stealing an airliner is something else. That might be a lax security issue, maybe not.

The taxi, takeoff and actual flying is relatively easy compared to the landing; this guy sounds like he had no intention of landing (OK, that fits the MSM narrative of suicide, too)

And then there's the "Q" post:

"Missile" (not to mention it was a Q400) The Anon's on 8CHAN are doubling down on where the plane crashed. ie, was this guy, and plane, used as a missile? (All kinds of tie-ins there including remote hacks, & 9-11 if you wanted to go that far). The possibilities here really WILL make me lose sleep! :)

I don't know if you're aware, there is a HUGE push by the Deep State & FakeStream media to discredit "Q" and the movement going down as I type :)

I guess we're going to find out soon enough.

Cheers

[Hip Hipnotist]

Hello, again, KiwiElf.

In regards to learning how to start this aircraft ( or any other ) there is no way as part of their job a line tech ( I was one ) would be taught how to start an aircraft. In fact most FBO's ( Fixed Based Operator ) frown upon line techs entering aircraft cabins -- unless invited by the crew for whatever reason -- and there are some. The main reason why not to board an aircraft is simply because most line techs smell like jet fuel. And if they've recently emptied an aircraft's lav, more commonly referred to as a 'lav dump' -- well, you get the picture. So IMO he learned all he had to know from a flight sim to do what he didn't have to do to kill himself.

And I must admit, much to my embarrassment, especially here on Avalon that I know nothing about 'Q'. I'm guessin' I'm about to look into it.

BTW: It's mostly because of the sophistication of flight sim software and modern graphic cards that I don't fly the real thing anymore. That and the thousands of $$ I save in drilling holes in the sky not to mention my young earthly age. :plane::crazy_pilot:

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I hope no one minds me posting this image here too, but it's relevant info:

https://s8.postimg.cc/x4e3unylx/IMG_3766.jpg


If you can't read the small text, you can drag the image into a new tab or save it, in order to open and magnify it.

Long story short, looks like this may have been a distraction to destroy a rogue military element. The F-16s weren't intercepting the plane, but destroying a target.

[RunningDeer]

...
... Seattle (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103369-Gang-Stalking-V2K-Testimony-by-Private-Security-Whistleblower&p=1233382&viewfull=1#post1233382), eh!?


RSwTJMdaivI

Here's the first 15 minutes & a few extra transcribed snippets:

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone. I'm sure you can imagine how difficult of a decision this was for me to decide to speak out publicly and the support I've received has confirmed to me that I did make the right decision in of course it was very much needed given the severity of the problem that’s sweeping the country right now in terms of gang stalking and voice to scull. So I just wanted to take the time to say that. Yeah I am working at SIS. Actually I have friends and family members who are military and military intelligence and through them I had always heard you know job opportunities.

I thought about joining the Marines when I was younger when I was 18. I'm 39 now so over the years it was something I had always thought about and of course after 9/11, so many jobs were created in the defense industries homeland security. And what a lot of people don't know about is within private security domestically when it within the United States it's a booming industry. It’s one of the fastest growing sectors of our economy as generally, our society is being militarized and generally that militarization is being privatized and as a result where you have is many many corporations in the United States of American private companies that are getting a lot of money from investors under the table to begin to set up what I describe as a security apparatus around and within the United States of America.

And it is in that context that I heard of the opportunity to work for security industry specialists in Seattle, Washington, They’re a private security company that is headquartered in Culver City, California and through a friend I heard that SIS was hiring. I heard they were hiring for security specialists. And given my backgrounds in education which is actually anthropology and sociology. Most people don't see how those two connect but by studying human being you can really do well within the intelligence industry and within the security industry because it is all about learning how to deal with and talk to and communicate with and ultimately from our perspective secure human beings.

And so it was through friends and family that I learned about the opportunity. And I started off like everybody else as a low-level security guard, minimum wage, I worked my way up through the company over time and eventually was assigned to executive protection and threat assessment risk management.

And just to tell you a little bit about that when my official duties were was to secure personnel data and property of VIPs that our company is hired to protect. So there's a whole lot of training that goes into that and I became a security specialist for SIS specializing in executive protection also risk and threat assessment to our clients. Our clients are the companies or the individuals that we contract out with and provide services for.

And it was in that context that I became aware of what I described as a social engineering program and a research and development program that was being carried out by SIS and our clients in Seattle, the Amazon Corporation. And it was through moving up within the SIS hierarchy and working with more and more people.

As I was assigned to more and more assignments, I became aware of the existence of this program. and then little by little over time I became aware of the extent of it and it wasn’t long before I realized how horribly out of control it was. How downright evil it was once I began to realize that SIS was experimenting on its own employees my fellow security specialists, I was outraged. I later learned that my company was involved in a larger social engineering program that encompassed the entire city of Seattle.

That aspect of the program was experimenting on the homeless population of Seattle, Washington rural housing DES, Downtown Emergency Services Center facilities. And I later learned that they were indeed experimenting with, when I say experimenting, voice to scull, hive mind behavior modification technology, that is frequency based and directed at a targeted individual to basically control their entire person. And it was by moving up even more that I realize that this experimentation was going on against the general population of Seattle. And then just the average man and woman on the street, upper class, upper upper class and even the flat-out rich, were having this technology used on them without their knowledge.

As more and more implement information and details of the program became were made known to me, I became more and more outraged by it. And I spent a long time because I had many friends within the security company a lot of these people are great people. They’re very good people not everybody involved in SIS is directly involved in experimenting on people. They’re not all directly involved in gang stalking. I never was. I never partook in that but I did partake in training that deals with tactics and protocols that are used normally for surveillance and counter surveillance. But within that is the all of the information and the know-how that you need to be able to gain stock. And that is in fact, what they are doing.

And so over time I became outraged. I tried to play my cards right. Wait for the right moment and when I really just couldn't tolerate it anymore when I found out just how out of control it was I decided to object to my superiors in person. But within SIS specifically what happens is they are experimenting on their own employees.

So it's a long story. I'll try to get through it quick. But basically people are selected from all over the country. We’re talking other cities all over America they are selected for many different reasons. Often it is because they are isolate, they don’t have a lot of money, friends or family and they also tend to be people that are highly, highly intelligent. The aspects of this technology that they're interested in improving upon have to do with cognitive processes. Processing information and as a result, they want highly intelligent people to be targets of this program.

They also tend to target people who are into what I would call alternative research commonly called maybe conspiracy theories. People that disagree with the government. People there into researching things like 9/11. Also they are interested in people that are interested in technology. I have found a high percentage of targeted individuals to be people who either are interested in or have information on highly advanced technologies. Usually having to do with directed-energy weapons and frequency weapons. The exact kind of weapons that we're talking about here that are used in voice to scull and behavior modification. The works there's many other aspects to the technology but once these people are selected, they will have the entire gang stalking/voice - skull program run against them.

This is detailed in my article. But they will be organized. To start they will have career sabotage programs run against them to ruin their job. They will have character assassinations camp campaigns run against them in there neighborhood. They’ll be isolated from family and friends as those individuals are turned against them and they will be isolated slowly and slowly over time using the technology itself. As many of the people freak out understandably when they first don't know what it is. Oftentimes they end up going to psychiatrists and false diagnosis of schizophrenia, manic depression, delusion, delusional paranoid are rendered against this individual.

And it turns out that that's a loophole in the law that they are using to take away people’s constitutional rights. As once you are deemed mentally unfit to care for yourself, ie your depressed, delusional paranoid etc. They use that. The state or the federal government uses that as an excuse to come in and say that they have to care for you. So I would warn all targeted individuals out there please do not go to psychiatrist and allow them to render a diagnosis against you. Because that is a dirty trick they are using to take away the rights of people all over the country.

That’s a great question. I do not have direct knowledge of that personally in terms of an individual how they are selected. What I can speak to intelligently though is that each individual fits the general profile that I'm describing. They’re highly intelligent. They are able to be isolated by whatever means. They normally have some sort of a what I would, what I would describe as a free mind. They’re people that aren’t, you know, part of the crowd so to speak in a way that they think. You know, they're outsiders. They’re what the government would call dissidents or revolutionaries or people that may be a problem.

Some TI's have have said that this kind of profile that alt-TIs fits is empowered individuals and I would definitely agree with that but I cannot speak to how they actually identify an individual person. I think the general profile that I'm describing that fits the targets of this program is something that is generated high up within the program. We’re talking at the federal government level. We’re talking at the highest levels of this social engineering program or scientists from all over the country, and all over the world, they’re looking at someone’s genetics. They’re looking at someone's cognitive abilities. They’re looking at someone's genes. They’re looking at someone's DNA. They’re looking at people's social situation. They’re looking at people's career.

I've been very surprised that so many PhDs are actually targets of this program and are usually PhDs that have gone to great against the grain in terms of what academia normally teaches usually within the fields of science and technology and the reason for this is because people running the program want to cover up certain technologies in certain aspects of science that can lead through to tremendous, tremendous breakthroughs. These highest levels of science and technology are the sole purview of classified sectors of our government and military. And as a result, it is not the opinion is that the American people do not have the right to this information. And is in the national security interest of our country to keep it classified.

And so that is the answer to your question. What I will do those take this opportunity to distinguish really quickly between the larger phenomenon of TIs that is usually a person in America that's being targeted by the technology and as being gang stalked by members of their community and a specific program that I am whistleblowing on. Those specific program I am whistleblowing on involves the actual abduction of TIs from around America. They’re put on a Greyhound bus and they are shipped to Seattle where there are made homeless. They live in one of the homeless shelters where they are housed and experimented on with voices scull technology. And then they become and are funneled into SIS to work as low-level security guards. Where they are experimented on even more so that is a specific program.

And that's what I detail in my blog in my website. But because I am familiar with that program it utilizes the same tactics of gang stalking and the use of this technology against individuals of my knowledge on that program applies to what all TIs are going through the exact same technology and the exact same gang stalking tactics that are used against them.

In terms of numbers I know that there are right now at least three to four hundred individuals in downtown Seattle that have been abducted from all over the United States brought to downtown Seattle and are being housed in DESC downtown emergency services center homeless shelters, and being experimented on 24/7. The numbers of SIS employees that have been experimented on to my knowledge is in the dozens that's all I have direct knowledge of though about 24 to 36.

And then nationwide, the estimates in terms of targeted individuals who still maintain some manner of autonomy and freedom and have not been brought to Seattle or enslaved completely by this the estimates I have heard is anywhere from one to two million at the moment. And we're talking full-blown TI's that get the technology and are being Gangstalked 24/7. Those are the estimates that I'm familiar with the this is discussed very much in the open within SIS and with some of the liaison contacts that I had with the ESC Amazon and then also members of the military that are in a civilian capacity.

One thing you have to understand is that within the security business most of the people working there are ex-military and X intelligence operatives. And many of them in fact are still active intelligence operatives. And have simply been reassigned to domestic duty to work with a private security company specifically for the purposes of carrying out this highly illegal program that's being run against TI all over America.


***

15:37 “…done very covertly to the point where the person it's being used against will not know that this technology is being used against them and … this technology could potentially being be being used against tens to hundreds of millions of Americans every day…”

16:00 “…there are field effects where they will not direct this technology at an individual but create a general field of frequency in a geographical area so that everybody that within that geographical area is feeling the effects of the technology. It’s more of a general application of the technology instead of an individual specific application of the technology. But when you consider that use of it and the fact that it is used for emotion and thought and behavior modification that we could potentially be working at many many millions of people across the country they're under the influence of the technology today right now.”

“…within this general field they can broadcast a frequency that affects human beings within that frequency field and can induce a general mood of let's say happiness or sadness, anger, agitation peacefulness. And in this way they can have an overall effect in the city. I have seen this done. It is remarkable how effective it is because you will walk down the street of Seattle and literally see people all in a bad mood all at the same time and they do not know each other. And then you go over a block or two to a different office building and you walk in and the exact same things going on there.”

18:00 “…it can be used to induce riots for example or stop riots. It could be very very dangerous and it's a great point you bring up about traffic patterns and auto accidents. I mean this is messing with the inner most part of human beings their emotions…”

[KiwiElf]

Hello, again, KiwiElf.

In regards to learning how to start this aircraft ( or any other ) there is no way as part of their job a line tech ( I was one ) would be taught how to start an aircraft. In fact most FBO's ( Fixed Based Operator ) frown upon line techs entering aircraft cabins -- unless invited by the crew for whatever reason -- and there are some. The main reason why not to board an aircraft is simply because most line techs smell like jet fuel. And if they've recently emptied an aircraft's lav, more commonly referred to as a 'lav dump' -- well, you get the picture. So IMO he learned all he had to know from a flight sim to do what he didn't have to do to kill himself.

And I must admit, much to my embarrassment, especially here on Avalon that I know nothing about 'Q'. I'm guessin' I'm about to look into it.

BTW: It's mostly because of the sophistication of flight sim software and modern graphic cards that I don't fly the real thing anymore. That and the thousands of $$ I save in drilling holes in the sky.:plane::crazy_pilot:

LOL I agree with that! Much safer (and cheaper!). The sophistication of both the airplane modelling and scenery (you can almost see your house!) is nothing short of mind-blowing.

My post above got interrupted a couple of times and I'm embarrassed to admit I started with yours & worked my way backward to read the other comments added since your earlier reply. All worthy points.

Yep, if he was drunk/drugged, performing those kind of maneuvers is certainly going to make him more lightheaded (and puke, and yes he said he had). As Bill & others have noted, there was no pressurisation issue and I'm surprised he didn't know that. (We don't need oxygen/pressurisation until we get up past 10-11,000 ft). He did mention he wanted to go check the other mountains; perhaps that's why. If he intended to fly over them, he would at least need oxygen.

I have to look into this more closely as I'm still not absolutely sure what his "job function" was.

You raise another interesting point: In NZ anyway, with large(r) aircraft (say, over 10-seaters particularly jets/turbines and definitely for a Dash 8), it's customary to radio the tower to advise a start-up (followed by the taxi). We have to radio them even if we're taxiing a few hundred feet from the ramp just to refuel a C172. I don't know what the rules are for the US?

[RunningDeer]

And I must admit, much to my embarrassment, especially here on Avalon that I know nothing about 'Q'. I'm guessin' I'm about to look into it.
http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/write.gif Hip, this is the latest page (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters--Nov-2017-and-beyond-&p=1241289&viewfull=1#post1241289) (310) of “The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)”.

[Hip Hipnotist]

And I must admit, much to my embarrassment, especially here on Avalon that I know nothing about 'Q'. I'm guessin' I'm about to look into it.
http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/write.gif Hip, this is the latest page (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters--Nov-2017-and-beyond-&p=1241289&viewfull=1#post1241289) (310) of “The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)”.

Thanks, RD. I'm going to educate myself on this 'Q' thing. Jeez, do I really wanna go down another rabbit hole? I don't know if I can fit anymore. :bigsmile:

[Hip Hipnotist]

"You raise another interesting point: In NZ anyway, with large(r) aircraft (say, over 10-seaters particularly jets/turbines and definitely for a Dash 8), it's customary to radio the tower to advise a start-up (followed by the taxi). We have to radio them even if we're taxiing a few hundred feet from the ramp just to refuel a C172. I don't know what the rules are for the US?"

No regulation(s) to contact tower upon aircraft start-up. Taxi? Yes. Any movement, yes. That's any movement including towing. Prior to towing any aircraft line techs ( or whom ever is doing the towing ) must get get clearance from the tower ( ground control ). However, upon start-up, always a good idea to yell, "get yer ass outta the way I'm crankin' her up!"

[O Donna]

Right around 2:00 in this video posted in the last post, He comments: I would like to figure out how to get this pressurized or something so I'm not so lightheaded.
[ ... ]
...doesn't that mean lack of oxygen?

It was a strange comment. His altitude wasn't high, at all... he was only ever a few hundred feet above sea level, a couple of thousand at the most. There was certainly plenty enough oxygen, and he should have known that. That indicates he wasn't thinking clearly, for whatever reasons.

But it surely has to be possible (it seems to me) that he was on drugs or meds of some kind, or maybe just alcohol. His happy-go-lucky, super-friendly radio chat does seem to suggest that.


If he was being treated for bipolar or the like with a drug like Abilify complications include Orthostatic hypotension (feeling lightheaded possible) and Cognitive impairment.

Black box warning: Antidepressants increase the risk of suicidal thoughts and behavior in children, adolescents, and young adults in the short-term.

Antidepressants, often times taken in combination sure seems an unsettling road to take if indeed he was being treated. The truth is that even experts aren't completely sure how antidepressants work. There's just a lot we don't know about how the brain functions.

[RunningDeer]

And I must admit, much to my embarrassment, especially here on Avalon that I know nothing about 'Q'. I'm guessin' I'm about to look into it.
http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/write.gif Hip, this is the latest page (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters--Nov-2017-and-beyond-&p=1241289&viewfull=1#post1241289) (310) of “The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)”.

Thanks, RD. I'm going to educate myself on this 'Q' thing. Jeez, do I really wanna go down another rabbit hole? I don't know if I can fit anymore. :bigsmile:

I quietly follow along. Many of the videos on the thread I get through my YouTube newsfeed.

[KiwiElf]

"You raise another interesting point: In NZ anyway, with large(r) aircraft (say, over 10-seaters particularly jets/turbines and definitely for a Dash 8), it's customary to radio the tower to advise a start-up (followed by the taxi). We have to radio them even if we're taxiing a few hundred feet from the ramp just to refuel a C172. I don't know what the rules are for the US?"

No regulation(s) to contact tower upon aircraft start-up. Taxi? Yes. Any movement, yes. That's any movement including towing. Prior to towing any aircraft line techs ( or whom ever is doing the towing ) must get get clearance from the tower ( ground control ). However, upon start-up, always a good idea to yell, "get yer ass outta the way I'm crankin' her up!"

Oddly enough, that's one thing I haven't (yet) seen here; no-one yells out the window, "clear" before they start. (We DO check first... very carefully! - Moving props & people aren't a good mix!) :)

@ O Donna re your bi-polar comment above...

Interesting. It might just be a "human psyche/oddity" (or programming), but when I let "non-pilots" fly the sim, they're not that interested in the actual flying; most of them want to crash it into something (the ground, water, building or another plane!) Not so with a simulated car or ground/water vehicle. :confused: :facepalm: Strange. (This guy [maybe] found out for real!) :)

[O Donna]

Probably incidental but does anyone know what he was referencing by saying "Damn it Andrew, people's lives are at stake here."?



Thanks, RD. I'm going to educate myself on this 'Q' thing. Jeez, do I really wanna go down another rabbit hole? I don't know if I can fit anymore. :bigsmile:

In my experience rabbit holes come in all sizes/ sliding scale.... :bigsmile:

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Yep, if he was drunk/drugged, performing those kind of maneuvers is certainly going to make him more lightheaded (and puke, and yes he said he had). As Bill & others have noted, there was no pressurisation issue and I'm surprised he didn't know that. (We don't need oxygen/pressurisation until we get up past 10-11,000 ft). He did mention he wanted to go check the other mountains; perhaps that's why. If he intended to fly over them, he would at least need oxygen.

I know we are all implicitly assuming he was actually on board that plane, but I have been questioning that ever since I was listening to the radio communications while it was still a developing story.

Does he sound depressed/suicidal, like someone who is in the midst of committing suicide? I don't know, you tell me. My inclination is that he sounds rather relaxed and is making very casual and silly jokes with the radio operators.

Did he really have no flight experience? Look at the maneuvers he was performing for the better part of an hour, while making those irreverent jokes.

Are you all being distracted from the real show? Radio communications being released in real-time, all kinds of fancy flying to catch your attention, the tragedy of a suicide story, the mystery of "why he did it" and "how he did it." It's all very captivating... and no one is paying attention to the F-16s.


This is the same place where a missile launch occurred that caused Trump's AF1 to have to divert, when the missile warnings went off in Hawaii.

Remember this?

https://cdn20.patchcdn.com/users/22906546/20180611/121948/styles/T800x600/public/processed_images/whidbey_missile_2-1528733028-9504.jpg

https://www.open-mind.news/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/it-looks-like-an-ascending-missile-unidentified-object-photographed-over-washington-state-navy-denies-690x432.jpg


Rogue submarine missile launch from the exact same area.

It's now being indicated to us that this rogue submarine was the USS Richard Russell, decommissioned and supposedly scrapped some time in the Clinton/Bush era.

What were the F-16s doing? Can anyone prove that they actually intercepted the Q 400?

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Thanks, RD. I'm going to educate myself on this 'Q' thing. Jeez, do I really wanna go down another rabbit hole? I don't know if I can fit anymore. :bigsmile:

If you're going to spend any time going down any of them today, it might as well be Q.

It connects all the dots and constantly explains ongoing events in a way that anticipates future news stories.

[O Donna]

I know we are all implicitly assuming he was actually on board that plane, but I have been questioning that ever since I was listening to the radio communications while it was still a developing story.


That's a fair question. Maybe a less plausible storyline then a suicidal aviation employee but with advances in remote control flying not so far fetched anymore.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoPU24d-hjo

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Remote control wasn't even new on 9/11.

NASA was testing remote-controlled aircraft in 1984.

V3G9eC5TgHo


Watch the nose-cone hit the red target perfectly.

[O Donna]

If Richard B. Russell was physically on the Q400, there is a clue he wasn't going to return.

Richard B. Russell (RBR), the inverse of BRB (Be Right Back)

Synchronicity: There Are No Accidents And No Coincidences

(New sources stated his name, including middle initial, pretty early in the developing story)

[A Voice from the Mountains]

If Richard B. Russell was physically on the Q400, there is a clue he wasn't going to return.

Richard B. Russell (RBR), the inverse of BRB (Be Right Back)

A coincidence indeed:


USS Richard B. Russell (SSN-687)

USS Richard B. Russell (SSN-687), a Sturgeon-class attack submarine, has been the only ship of the United States Navy to be named for Richard B. Russell, Jr. (1897–1971), United States Senator from Georgia (1933–1971).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Richard_B._Russell_(SSN-687)

Even the middle initial is a match.

Is this a coincidence?

A message is being sent.


The Sturgeon-class boats were equipped to carry the Harpoon missile, the Tomahawk cruise missile, the UUM-44 SUBROC, the Mark 67 SLMM and Mark 60 CAPTOR mines, and the MK-48 and ADCAP torpedoes. Torpedo tubes were located amidships to accommodate the bow-mounted sonar. The bow covering the sonar sphere was made from steel or glass reinforced plastic (GRP), both varieties having been produced both booted and not booted. Booted domes are covered with a half-inch layer of rubber.[3][4] The GRP domes improved the bow sonar sphere performance; though for intelligence gathering missions, the towed-array sonar was normally used as it was a much more sensitive array.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon-class_submarine#Armament

https://www.open-mind.news/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/it-looks-like-an-ascending-missile-unidentified-object-photographed-over-washington-state-navy-denies-690x432.jpg

[Ba-ba-Ra]

I know we are all implicitly assuming he was actually on board that plane, but I have been questioning that ever since I was listening to the radio communications while it was still a developing story.

Does he sound depressed/suicidal, like someone who is in the midst of committing suicide? I don't know, you tell me. My inclination is that he sounds rather relaxed and is making very casual and silly jokes with the radio operators.

Did he really have no flight experience? Look at the maneuvers he was performing for the better part of an hour, while making those irreverent jokes.

Are you all being distracted from the real show? Radio communications being released in real-time, all kinds of fancy flying to catch your attention, the tragedy of a suicide story, the mystery of "why he did it" and "how he did it." It's all very captivating... and no one is paying attention to the F-16s.


This is the same place where a missile launch occurred that caused Trump's AF1 to have to divert, when the missile warnings went off in Hawaii.

Remember this?

Rogue submarine missile launch from the exact same area.

It's now being indicated to us that this rogue submarine was the USS Richard Russell, decommissioned and supposedly scrapped some time in the Clinton/Bush era.

What were the F-16s doing? Can anyone prove that they actually intercepted the Q 400?[COLOR="red"]





Voice, you read my mind. I was actually having the same thoughts.

He sounded too relaxed, and not drug relaxed - l live in California, familiar with that.

And am I getting this right. Allegedly this pilot, Richard B. Russell, has the same name as the submarine you posted in #28
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103830-Passenger-plane-stolen-from-Sea-Tac.-What-are-the-options&p=1241550&viewfull=1#post1241550

So, the USS Richard B. Russell which was destroyed by DS and then a dummy was reconstructed to take down current POTUS .. . and now an unhappy airport mechanic, who just happens to have the same name as the submarine that was destroyed and then recreated, destroys the dummy submarine! too good not to be true for all us tin hat rabbit hole diggers.!

I definitely need a glass of wine.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I definitely need a glass of wine.

If this interpretation is correct then I actually find it hilarious.

Probably if anyone died at all, it was some bad actors involved with rogue military elements in that area. And if the USS Richard B. Russell wasn't really scrapped in 2003, then it's definitely been scrapped now. ;)

Like someone was commenting on 8chan, this has to be one of the most epic trolls of all time.

[KiwiElf]

I definitely need a glass of wine.

Make that two! :) but I'll take a beer! :happythumbsup::beer:

I'm not entirely convinced this guy was on the plane, either. Remote controlled [real] airplanes go back even further than the 1980's, Voice. During WWI!

https://www.redorbit.com/reference/the-history-of-drone-technology/

[O Donna]

I definitely need a glass of wine.

Appropriate and gave me a knowing smile. :)

[Bill Ryan]

Come on, guys. If it wasn't his real voice (which seemed to be well in sync with what the plane was doing) then his family, friends and work colleagues would immediately know. And if he wasn't killed in the crash, then he's either been murdered or given a new false identity.

Occam's Razor...? :)

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Bill, don't you also believe that Sandyhook was a hoax?

I do too, but if that was a hoax, where is Occam's razor on that one? This would be even easier to pull off. It's only one guy. Not a whole bunch of kids.

You can cut in on the radio signal from anywhere. Just need the right frequency. You don't have to be on the plane to do it.

I assume he was given a false identity in advance. I will try to find when he first started working at the airport.


Found it... This article says three and a half years. I suppose that could be fiction as well, but if it's true, it would put us back to the beginning of 2015.


Alaska Airlines officials said Mr. Russell had worked for Horizon for three and a half years, and was responsible for handling luggage and cargo and for towing aircraft. He had worked his shift on Friday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/11/us/seatac-stolen-plane-richard-b-russell.html

Considering that Jade Helm also occurred in 2015, and that the military would have known far in advance regarding the status of "deep state" subs, I don't think it's entirely out of the question even if he really had been working for them that long. Certainly there are not as many loose ends to "fix" as there would be in many of the other operations we've seen pulled off.

By the winter of 2015/2016, I was already convinced that Trump had military factions behind him and even posted as much here. So if I was already seeing the indications back then, and I'm still convinced this is the case, then I really don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that they've really dug in this deeply in preparation for what's happening now. They would've known the rogue sub existed and they would've known it would be a future threat, so like I said, it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility.

From all the war games the military and NSA do, they could probably surmise that this rogue sub would be a future target for operations.


One more note, "Red October" has been signaled by Q for months. That's a reference to a movie where they're hunting a Soviet sub. Rogue subs are a potential threat for inaugurating nuclear war, since they can carry nuclear missiles and the authority and ability to launch them is in the hands of whoever is commanding the sub. This is something I've seen commented upon before by people familiar with military war games.

[O Donna]

Occam's Razor...? :)

I appreciate the voice of reason, Bill, I hear that voice as well but just because something is least likely to be doesn't make it 'not to be'.

As an example. I am reminded of events in history where individuals or groups presented an alternative version of events that was ridiculed by the voice of reason at the time only to be proved right decades later by the release of classified documents. Statistically, why can't a version or elements of a version of events presented here and/ or other sites be closer to the truth then the official narrative currently circulating?

[ThePythonicCow]

Come on, guys. If it wasn't his real voice (which seemed to be well in sync with what the plane was doing) then his family, friends and work colleagues would immediately know. And if he wasn't killed in the crash, then he's either been murdered or given a new false identity.
I'd guess (not having looked into this at all, really) that either he's a fictitious character to start with, or he had few family and friends, or we'll never be told that those family and friends are glad he's still alive and well, or that he got a new false identity, or ... :).

We need a variant of Occam's Razor ... in which the truth dies the death of a thousand razor cuts.

[Michelle Marie]

Right around 2:00 in this video posted in the last post, He comments: I would like to figure out how to get this pressurized or something so I'm not so lightheaded.
[ ... ]
...doesn't that mean lack of oxygen?

It was a strange comment. His altitude wasn't high, at all... he was only ever a few hundred feet above sea level, a couple of thousand at the most. There was certainly plenty enough oxygen, and he should have known that. That indicates he wasn't thinking clearly, for whatever reasons.

But it surely has to be possible (it seems to me) that he was on drugs or meds of some kind, or maybe just alcohol. His happy-go-lucky, super-friendly radio chat does seem to suggest that.

I had a feeling he was on something, too. Whether he was on the plane and he was controlled with psychotropic drugs, or he was creating a simulation, it's hard to say. But he did not seem like he was sober and authentic.

This is meant to be confusing and distracting. That's part of the purpose of FFs. And I have not looked into it enough to know. But what I have surmised from FF patterns are that people are duped into playing along in some way, and participants and observers alike are left trying to decipher what part is real, and what part is fictitious.

I could see someone half looped (drunk) deciding to take a plane for a ride. But it's so commonplace now to have FFs and fake narratives, even a real story would be taken apart and scrutinized.

With the names and associations coming to light, it would be hard to believe there wasn't some pre-planning to this incident.

I keep thinking that with the active shooter drills we had at school, I could have been involved in a FF and I would not know if any of it was pre-planned. They are designed that way. But they got rid of me because I didn't play along. I was ridiculed in a staff meeting ...they said I could have been shot!...because I had too many copies to make during my planning period and I didn't have time to play along with their lockdown. I had no idea what was going on then.

I wonder what level of understanding this wannabe pilot had of his role?

When Rebekah Roth revealed her theory [with considerable evidence] about where the 9/11 planes went, and the recording of the people that were aired--they thought they were doing a drill. They were used and then ...? I won't say it.

MM

[ThePythonicCow]

Rogue submarine missile launch from the exact same area.

It's now being indicated to us that this rogue submarine was the USS Richard Russell, decommissioned and supposedly scrapped some time in the Clinton/Bush era.

What were the F-16s doing? Can anyone prove that they actually intercepted the Q 400?



I'd guess (not having looked into this at all, really) that either he's a fictitious character to start with, or he had few family and friends, or we'll never be told that those family and friends are glad he's still alive and well, or that he got a new false identity, or ... :).
... or ... perhaps there was no Richard B. "Rich" Russell in the regular staff at Sea-Tac. Rather

the Rich Russell in this story was essentially a voice actor,
his name comes from the supposedly decommissioned USS Richard B Russell submarine,
the Q400 plane might not even have had a pilot in it,
the "Q" in "Q400" might have been a wink to us Q followers,
and something on or near Ketron Island needed blowing up real good.


Perhaps that something had something do with the June 10 "secret missile launch", which could be why "Q" suggested we think of the word "missile" in regards to this event.

As I write this, I realize that I'm essentially repeating a theory presented by "A Voice from the Mountains" and others, above, who suggest that the official story is a cover story, to allow some Iron Eagle's (F-16's) to drop some ordinance on Ketron Island.

Since Ketron Island is less than a half mile across the water from the southern end of the heavily populated Seattle-Tacoma area along the east side of Puget Sound, blowing things up without a cover story might have been a bit too obvious.

My current tin-foil-hat conspiracy theorist nutcase: That USS Richard B Russell submarine was not decommissioned back in the 1990's, it was used to shoot off a missile on June 10 in an effort to start a major war, and it is now effectively and permanently decommissioned (and who ever played the role of Rich Russell has quietly returned to his day job, none the worse for the wear.)

[Michelle Marie]

Rogue submarine missile launch from the exact same area.

It's now being indicated to us that this rogue submarine was the USS Richard Russell, decommissioned and supposedly scrapped some time in the Clinton/Bush era.

What were the F-16s doing? Can anyone prove that they actually intercepted the Q 400?



I'd guess (not having looked into this at all, really) that either he's a fictitious character to start with, or he had few family and friends, or we'll never be told that those family and friends are glad he's still alive and well, or that he got a new false identity, or ... :).
... or ... perhaps there was no Richard B. "Rich" Russell in the regular staff at Sea-Tac. Rather

the Rich Russell in this story was essentially a voice actor,
his name comes from the supposedly decommissioned USS Richard B Russell submarine,
the Q400 plane might not even have had a pilot in it,
the "Q" in "Q400" might have been a wink to us Q followers,
and something on or near Ketron Island needed blowing up real good.


Perhaps that something had something do with the June 10 "secret missile launch", which could be why "Q" suggested we think of the word "missile" in regards to this event.

As I write this, I realize that I'm essentially repeating a theory presented by "A Voice from the Mountains" and others, above, who suggest that the official story is a cover story, to allow some Iron Eagle's (F-16's) to drop some ordinance on Ketron Island.

Since Ketron Island is less than a half mile across the water from the southern end of the heavily populated Seattle-Tacoma area along the east side of Puget Sound, blowing things up without a cover story might have been a bit too obvious.

My current tin-foil-hat conspiracy theorist nutcase: That USS Richard B Russell submarine was not decommissioned back in the 1990's, it was used to shoot off a missile on June 10 in an effort to start a major war, and it is now effectively and permanently decommissioned (and who ever played the role of Rich Russell has quietly returned to his day job, none the worse for the wear.)

I think what you deciphered goes along with this story from the Q thread, Paul.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters--Nov-2017-and-beyond-&p=1241683&viewfull=1#post1241683

I think what I was intuitively picking up on was that the voice may have been pre-recorded. (Hence the Rebekah Roth reference.) And the happy-go-lucky attitude might be not from an unnatural high, like drugs or alcohol, but the natural high one might feel from doing something good (intrinsic value). That means, if the theory presented by the guy on the neon revolt page, referred to on the Q thread, he would be a white hat working towards elimination of possible future destruction caused by black hat missile attacks.

MM

[Bill Ryan]

We've just been sent this e-mail, name provided.

~~~




I've been following PA for years. Even PC when it started. I agree with many things. I've never really had anything new to offer so I never felt compelled to join as a member.

I was reading the posts about the stolen Q400 and wanted to share that I was someone who was there that day and it was very real. People I work with knew him personally. The controversy isn't whether or not it happened -- it's what was it that made him a 'broken guy'.

[RunningDeer]

We've just been sent this e-mail, name provided.

~~~




I've been following PA for years. Even PC when it started. I agree with many things. I've never really had anything new to offer so I never felt compelled to join as a member.

I was reading the posts about the stolen Q400 and wanted to share that I was someone who was there that day and it was very real. People I work with knew him personally. The controversy isn't whether or not it happened -- it's what was it that made him a 'broken guy'.




I’ve never really had anything new to offer...

Hello and thanks for your in-put, Avid-Avalonian-Watcher. More often than not I feel the same. http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/hug-hi-five.gif
(Shhh...our secret.)



http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/deer-popcorn.gif
RunningDeer ♡

[O Donna]

That there is A real person and A real event that happen that day is but a small part of the story for the individual observer. It does not address that significant things occurred to precipitate such an event that has not been disseminated to the gen-pop.

Though the email Bill Ryan received can be considered 'eyes on the ground' and confirm things the mainstream media is reporting ... why do I hear whispers of Bill Hicks (“Go back to bed, America. Your government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed, America. Your government is in control again.....")?

[Ba-ba-Ra]

The controversy isn't whether or not it happened -- it's what was it that made him a 'broken guy'.


What he said in the video in post #1 was:

"Just a broken guy, gotta few screws loose I guess. Never really knew it until now."

It's the last sentence that caught my attention: Never really knew it until now.

Sounds like it wasn't depressed or had problems he was aware of . . .until that moment.

Put this together with: Recently I listened to a whistleblower -can't remember where, am trying to find the youtube video, it might even have been on PA, . . . .anyhow this whistleblower was talking about the mind control that was happening specifically in the Seattle area. Could this be something like that?

OTOH - The peculiarity between his name and the US submarine, a rather strange "coincidence". How many people have the same name as a US submarine, right down to the middle initial?

Now, a naysayer could say that Q's story about the submarine was fictious. Is there some way to check if there was a US submarine by that name?

Edit later: Just saw Turiya confirmed the name of that sub in his post:
https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/181968596#p181980544

Guys: Pleeeease don't tell me this is just a coincidence of the names. Not enough wine in the bottle to convince me of that

[Michelle Marie]

Anybody could say anything.

Who has the vested interest in what people believe?

Discernment is still happening.

MM

[mountain_jim]

As suggested by KiwiElf, adding this post here:

For a nice summary of various anon theories and ideas around how that hijacked plane could relate to the earlier missile incident, as well as Bill Maher info and other ideas related to latest Q drops:

https://www.neonrevolt.com/2018/08/12/the-mystery-of-the-sky-king-and-bill-mahers-opensecret-newq-qanon-greatawakening-pizzagate-pedogate/

example contribution (also at link were supposed images from Ketron Island, later taken down from original source, that looked like an older, camouflaged missile silo.)




Got this from Ryan Anthony Morgan Theory off fb “Alright guys, so I wanted to weigh in on the whole SeaTac plane hijacker event. I’ll preface my opinion with a little background. I’m former military and law enforcement. I won’t go into specifics about what I did in those fields, but suffice it to say, I have experience and knowledge from both of those fields that has lead me to this theory.

So here it goes. We know that a rogue missile was launched off of the coast of Washington State in an attempt to take out 45. We know that there were civilians on the ground who watched it go up in real time and that they reportedly believed the source of the launch to be around the area of Naval Air Station Whidbey Island, WA. What I can tell you with absolute certainty is that NAS Whidbey Island does not have surface to air missile capabilities.

Which leads me to my next opinion. Given the fact that a surface to air missile was fired somewhere off of the coast of Washington State, it can be reasonably assumed that the source of it’s launch was actually on Ketron Island, WA, which is roughly 60 miles due south of NAS Whidbey Island. If you aren’t already aware, Ketron Island is where the alleged hijacker went down yesterday. With that in mind, I believe what we actually witnessed was a white hat covert op, masked as a suicidal hijacker, with the intention of wiping out the launch platform for the rogue missile, so as to prevent black hats from utilizing it in the future for FF operations, the F-15 Iron Eagles being the delivery vehicle for the payload that wiped out the target, and using the plane crash to cover it up, i.e. the ensuing fire at the scene of the crash/target.

Given the speed and trajectory of the missile, it would be easy for an untrained eye to misconstrue it’s flight path and assume that it came from NAS Whidbey Island, which I’m guessing was also partly just the individual assuming that’s where it originated, being that it’s a military base. But this would be an uneducated assumption, for the reason I stated previously, which is that NAS Whidbey Island doesn’t have surface to air missile capabilities.

It should also be noted that the alleged conversation between the air traffic controller and the suspect was never secured. When I say secured what I’m referring to is switching to an encrypted radio frequency that cannot be scanned by the public. You may be asking yourself why that’s significant. The reason that it is significant is because for all intents and purposes, this was a real world terrorist incident, hence the scrambling of the F-15 Iron Eagles. When a situation of that magnitude occurs, operators will switch to a secure network, so as to avoid any interference that could jeopardize the situation. Any and all audio recordings should have been secured immediately, as they would now be direct evidence for the crime that was being perpetrated. In this case those comms were never secure. Why would that be you might ask? I’m guessing that it was pre recorded and pre orchestrated audio, and was played over the publicly available radio frequency so as to set the stage so to speak, having people believe that it was some guy who lost his marbles and decided to commit suicide, when in reality it was just Team 45/Team White Hat bringing down a cabal asset and adding another victory to the mother****in U.S. Department of Winning. Thoughts, opinions, theories are all welcome here.”


Neon Revolt then says on the other hand



I think he’s a bit far off here – but what if the Cabal was attempting to launch another missile from Ketron island?

In other words, they didn’t fire the previous one from there, but had moved operations nearby – and the plane crash was a way to take whatever installation they were setting up, out…

[waves]

These unaddressed questions stick out to me:

1. There is nothing about the take off. You don't just mosey to an airstrip, guess it's available and take off without communicating or getting noticed by air traffic. But the narrative starts mid-flight and no one is asking about the movement on ground into position or take off.

2. IF the rogue take off really happened, it's noticed! and becomes a terrorist action/military problem. Fighter jets were sent. Standard procedure is to then switch public air traffic to private - not make it available to 1000's of news outlets.

3. The statement "I wasn't planning on landing" sounds like someone on a flight simulator telling someone what he wasn't planning on practicing.

4. The 'crash site' Kerton Island was/is the location of a private 'orphanage/children's home'?
https://www.reddit.com/r/greatawakening/comments/96sbye/childrens_home_on_ketron_island/

5. The supposed family of Richard Russell standing quiet behind the man dryly reading the script off the paper so choppily like he never saw it before just didn't seem authentic.

6. There was ZERO info from last communication to the supposed crash - in a very convenient location completely out of public view or access, but plenty of video of some patch of fires surrounded by trees sent to 1000's of news outlets.

[Hervé]

[...]
Put this together with: Recently I listened to a whistleblower -can't remember where, am trying to find the youtube video, it might even have been on PA, . . . .anyhow this whistleblower was talking about the mind control that was happening specifically in the Seattle area. Could this be something like that?
[...]
See post # 19 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103830-Passenger-plane-stolen-from-Sea-Tac.-What-are-the-options&p=1241522&viewfull=1#post1241522) of this very thread...

[KiwiElf]

We've just been sent this e-mail, name provided.

~~~




I've been following PA for years. Even PC when it started. I agree with many things. I've never really had anything new to offer so I never felt compelled to join as a member.

I was reading the posts about the stolen Q400 and wanted to share that I was someone who was there that day and it was very real. People I work with knew him personally. The controversy isn't whether or not it happened -- it's what was it that made him a 'broken guy'.



If I recall, we had an Avalon member (a teacher) at the Parkland School Shooting, too. As it turns out, the subsequent facts & evidence obtained after that went way beyond her "boots on the ground" or MSM account, no offense to her (or anyone else).

Just sayin' ...

[RunningDeer]

Though the email Bill Ryan received can be considered 'eyes on the ground' and confirm things the mainstream media is reporting ... why do I hear whispers of Bill Hicks (“Go back to bed, America. Your government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed, America. Your government is in control again.....")?


Bill Hicks: Go back to bed, America.
vL8dHf16CEs

[KiwiElf]

The latest X22 Report video discusses this incident in the context of the most recent "Q" posts from Time index 22:45 onward (worth watching the whole thing IMO; the video addresses other threads of interest currently on Avalon as well - cross-posted from the "Q" thread)

The Show Has Just Begun, Welcome To The Swamp - X22 Report Episode 1636b

uOrPv5Vy-1c

X22Report
Published on Aug 12, 2018

Trump begins the push for making the IG report to become declassified.

FBI responds to what they were doing in Little Rock.

DNC files suit against Wikileaks and does it via Twitter.

Government's own report shows that poppy fields grew during the US invasion of Afghanistan.

China takes over French stake in Iran's gas venture.

NATO fires missile near Russia, a plane was stolen and the incident is very strange.

"Q" drops more breadcrumbs lets us know that big booms are headed our way and the IG report is ready to be released. "Q" continues by exposing the swamp.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Bill Ryan]

Here's a flight recording of the audio traffic between the two chasing F-15s and a couple of KC-46 refueling tankers that happened to be nearby. The text is copied directly from the article.


https://fighterjetsworld.com/2018/08/13/listen-to-kc-46-tankers-f-15s-audio-recording-during-stolen-q400-qra-incident

(https://fighterjetsworld.com/2018/08/13/listen-to-kc-46-tankers-f-15s-audio-recording-during-stolen-q400-qra-incident)





Listen To KC-46 Tankers' & F-15s' Audio Recording During Stolen Q400 QRA Incident
13 August, 2018

Richard Russell, a 29-year-old suicidal man, stole a 76 seater Alaska Airlines/Horizon Air Bombardier Dash 8 from Seattle’s international airport for a short, dramatic flight before crashing on a nearby island.

The aircraft was intercepted by a pair of F-15C Eagles from the 142nd Fighter Wing of the Oregon Air National Guard launched from Portland International Airport. The F-15s “broke the sound barrier” on the way to intercept the stolen airliner.

The Oregon Air National Guard F-15Cs that intercepted Richard Russell as he flew aggressively around the Tacoma area—had to figure out where they would get gas to stay aloft. The alert tanker that launches out of Fairchild Air Force Base in Spokane during scrambles hadn’t gotten airborne yet, and after a supersonic, low-level race from Portland, even the Eagle with its generous endurance would soon need gas soon or have to land. Monitoring the event over the airwaves were a pair of Boeing KC-46 Pegasus tankers that were on a test flight nearby that offered a somewhat unconventional helping hand.

As the F-15s checked in to state their dwindling fuel status, the Seattle Center controller notes that the KC-46s are holding nearby and have called in to say that they are capable of refueling F-15s and are offering to do so on the fly. Still, actually executing such a plan would be something of an experimental affair as F-15 fleet pilots have never tanked from a KC-46 before. The program has been beset by delays and cost overruns, with hopes being that the first examples will finally get delivered to USAF flight-lines this Fall.

The Eagles, which had about 30 to 40 minutes of gas left according to the lead pilot, said that the KC-135 tanker out of Fairchild AFB in Spokane, callsign GASMAN 04, had just launched and was headed their way. As such, they wouldn’t need the KC-46’s help. But if this incident had been ongoing, and a KC-135 wasn’t able to get airborne quick enough, it is hard to imagine that the Eagle Drivers wouldn’t have taken the KC-46 crews up on their creative offer. And to our knowledge, it would have been the first operational refueling for the Pegasus.

Listen to the complete audio recording here. The part about the KC-46s starts at around 10:15 in.


https://soundcloud.com/user-223423313/ksea-misc-aug-11-2018-0300z
(16:11 long, no apparent download link)

[KiwiElf]

I can download it from the first link (above) Bill, but not the second (using Internet Download Manager) :thumbsup:

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I think what I was intuitively picking up on was that the voice may have been pre-recorded.

He was interacting with the guys at the airport over the radio, and that seemed like a pretty genuine exchange, so I don't think it was pre-recorded.

Military and intelligence put guys working "deep cover" all the time, doing a normal day-to-day job until they're activated for the role they were inserted for. It's no different than Gladio, or how the CIA created al-Qaeda and created "sleeper cells" of terrorists that they could activate whenever they need something to happen.

The time frame we're looking at for this guy is 3 and a half years working for this company. That puts us back to early 2015 -- the same year that Jade Helm occurred (a military operation) and that Trump launched his bid for presidency, being advised by General Mike Flynn, who was the former head of military intelligence. So the signs and connections are all there for setting things up during this same time period.

Like I said above, if this sub was handed over to a rogue "deep state" faction of the military for black operations, the NSA and military intelligence would have already known about this and would have known the potential threat it would pose for all number of reasons. They do simulated war games all the time. They know better than anyone what they need to do, well in advance of having to do it.




If I recall, we had an Avalon member (a teacher) at the Parkland School Shooting, too. As it turns out, the subsequent facts & evidence obtained after that went way beyond her "boots on the ground" or MSM account, no offense to her (or anyone else).

Just sayin' ...

Yes, she was invited to an award dinner in Washington DC, to be recognized for her "activism" after the shooting took place. It looked like a pretty high-brow affair, which strikes a dissonant tone with the tragedy that had occurred, especially being so soon afterwards.

I was curious about this and asked her how she first learned about this activist group which rewarded her, but she never responded. That was the last post on that thread, actually.

[Siphonemis]

I wouldn't look too far past what this man did. He could taxi and pilot a small craft, which is what most of us can do with an Airframe and Powerplant license. He wasn't 100% with what he was experiencing in his life, and took drastic measures. His ability to say "FU, I'm doing this," to the slavery of 9-5, rings true.

[KiwiElf]

I wouldn't look too far past what this man did. He could taxi and pilot a small craft, which is what most of us can do with an Airframe and Powerplant license. He wasn't 100% with what he was experiencing in his life, and took drastic measures. His ability to say "FU, I'm doing this," to the slavery of 9-5, rings true.

Er,... "small craft"? A Cessna 172 is a "small craft". :) This is an airliner which can carry 80 people incl the crew (albeit a "small-er" airliner, small only if you compare it to a Boeing 737/757/747...) ;)

Stolen Q-400 plane not for beginner pilots

N_3FMIcbZek

KING 5
Published on Aug 13, 2018

Pilots say the Q-400 turboprop that was stolen is not for beginner pilots.
--------------------------------------
STOLEN DASH-8 MAKES AN UNAUTHORIZED TAKEOFF at SeaTac

4LLmF9tZoEE

Start of the video is a Brief Audio conversation with ATC noticing unauthorised runway entry & trying to contact "non-pilot" (& later, in the air, which you've probably heard before).

VASAviation -
Published on Aug 11, 2018
--------------------------------------

... and Jordan Sather's take on it... (he doesn't buy the "official" story either, surprise surprise! ;)

[8.13] SeaTac Stolen Plane Incident - A Covert White Hat Operation?

"Q" marks the spot?

_Ob8jo-qOCU

Destroying the Illusion
Published on Aug 13, 2018

[Siphonemis]

Any certified adult could start the engines, get her taxiing, and do basic air maneuvers with little effort, especially a prop.

[KiwiElf]

Any certified adult could start the engines, get her taxiing, and do basic air maneuvers with little effort, especially a prop.

I agree... except he wasn't "certified" for any of that, was he? :)

It may have "props", but jet turbines power them. It's a turboprop, not a piston. As I've already stated, you don't just "turn the key" & it starts. :facepalm:

[Siphonemis]

Many of my colleagues sit behind a desk, but we all are trained are and aware of the basics of flight. This was no miracle. We can all do it, and some of us do it on a regular basis. I don't recall where I read it, but he was sick of societal demands, so he very easily took a craft, and did what he did.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I wouldn't look too far past what this man did.

Welcome to the forum. You'll find that many of us look far past many things here. :P

[ThePythonicCow]

Any certified adult could start the engines, get her taxiing, and do basic air maneuvers with little effort, especially a prop.

I agree... except he wasn't "certified" for any of that, was he? :)

I'm getting the sense that Rich Russell had legitimate access to these planes, including in the cockpit, while the planes were sitting on the ground.

Granted, this sense doesn't come from any serious accumulation of hard evidence. I have almost none of that ... just what some random people type on this Internet thingie.

But if that sense is true, then one key element of a successful flight, the basic "muscle memory" of where things, levers, buttons, rudders, yoke, seating position, etc are could be explained by his being around such planes for a while.

If, as someone else speculates just above, he (Rich Russell) might have actually been planted, deliberately, a couple of years ago, to be available for a job like this, then he would have had plenty of time to practice simulated flying, and to learn the theory of how planes and their controls work. That, combined with the actual in seat muscle memory, and a few other (waving my hands) such opportunities, along with perhaps some remote controls, could explain his ability to do this flight ... if he even was in the cockpit during the flight.

===

The first video in KiwiElf's Post #69 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103830-Passenger-plane-stolen-from-Sea-Tac.-What-are-the-options&p=1241892&viewfull=1#post1241892), above, got me thinking along another line.

That video shows some television news commentators on TV (Channel K5, King 5 (https://www.king5.com/), it seemed) wondering how it was possible for someone to fly a non-trivial mid-sized passenger plane on his first flight so well, and seemingly so casually.

That news cast chatter, in the latter part of that short video, would seem to feed conspiracy theory minded folks such as myself :).

It's as if a magician is actually letting some of the usually more observant people in the audience apparently see part of how he pulled off a magic trick, all by way of engaging the audience and further obfuscating the actual magic, behind the controversy over the apparent partial disclosure.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Michelle Marie just posted this video on the Q thread, but check out the info here:

R2dDhC-0etM

An Anon is going over some basic facts about the island and the situation on the ground as it developed after the crash, and he is saying this could be the equivalent of a 2nd Epstein's Island out there, with a bunch of CIA in the area, and a submarine base.

A submarine base on Ketron Island.

https://www.open-mind.news/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/it-looks-like-an-ascending-missile-unidentified-object-photographed-over-washington-state-navy-denies-690x432.jpg

The location of the above missile launch, captured from a "Skunk Bay" weather cam (Skunk Bay, Washington), is in the same area as Ketron Island.

https://s8.postimg.cc/w8131m945/Ketron_Island_Skunk_Bay.png


Notice that all a sub would have to do is head north from Ketron Island up the Puget Sound to reach Skunk Bay, where the missile above was captured as it was being fired.

[ThePythonicCow]

That video shows some television news commentators on TV (Channel K5, King 5 (https://www.king5.com/), it seemed) wondering how it was possible for someone to fly a non-trivial mid-sized passenger plane on his first flight so well, and seemingly so casually.
This article is posted on the K5 website: Co-workers reveal moments leading up to Seattle plane theft (https://www.king5.com/article/news/stolen-plane/co-workers-reveal-moments-leading-up-to-seattle-plane-theft/281-583784098). I'll copy the entire article because it seems to me to have additional detail, from actual "on the ground reporting", that I had not seen elsewhere.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Co-workers reveal moments leading up to Seattle plane theft

Co-workers talked to the KING 5 Investigators about Richard Russell's final shift at Horizon before stealing a plane from Sea-Tac Airport.

Author: Susannah Frame, Jennifer King
Published: 7:11 PM PDT August 13, 2018
Updated: 8:44 PM PDT August 13, 2018

A Horizon worker stole an empty plane (https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/horizon-air-employee-stole-crashed-plane-on-pierce-county-island/281-582563371) from Sea-Tac Airport Friday and flew for more than an hour before crashing onto a small Pierce County island. The worker was identified as 29-year-old Richard Russell, a ground service agent.

The KING 5 Investigators talked to Russell's co-workers about his behavior leading up to the incident.

The KING 5 Investigators talked to Russell's co-workers about his behavior leading up to the incident.

An employee who worked with Russell last week said, "I talked to him on Monday and he seemed to be having a good ‘ole time. And on Tuesday he seemed normal."

Russell started what would be his last shift around 1:30 p.m. Friday, the swing shift. He was stationed as a 'load coordinator,' which relays luggage weight and balance information to pilots.

Sources tell KING 5's Susannah Frame (https://twitter.com/SFrameK5) that Russell was mid-shift Friday when he left his post and headed to an area known as Cargo 1, where the Q400 plane was parked. Russell did not walk to Cargo 1, sources say, but took a company pushback tug and drove about a half-mile to the plane.

According to Alaska Airlines and federal investigators, Russell was able to tow the Q400 (https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/how-did-a-worker-steal-a-plane-from-sea-tac-airport-expert-weighs-in/281-583405153) out of a cargo area on the northern edge of the airport and redirect it using the tug.

Russell was credentialed (https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/horizon-air-employee-had-security-clearance-specialized-training/281-583000687) to be in the cargo area. He did not have security clearance to access runways or taxiways, according to Perry Cooper, Public Information Officer for Sea-Tac International Airport.

It was only after he taxied a couple hundred feet to runway 16C when air traffic controllers became suspicious.

“Who’s the aircraft on 16 Center?” said one controller on audio obtained by KING 5. Another noted: “He came flying out of the cargo area. We need to call and scramble now.”

RELATED: F-15s from PDX intercepted stolen plane (https://www.king5.com/article/news/official-f-15s-from-pdx-that-intercepted-stolen-plane-kept-people-on-the-ground-safe/283-582895823)

Cooper said Sea-Tac Airport has enhanced security in cargo areas as a result of Friday's incident, meaning a larger visible presence of Port of Seattle police and airport security staff. Cooper declined to say how many more security personnel have been added. He said Sea-Tac officials found no indication that any security protocols were violated Friday.

LISTEN: Cockpit audio from worker who stole empty plane from Sea-Tac Airport (https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/listen-cockpit-audio-from-worker-who-stole-empty-plane-from-sea-tac-airport/281-582579610)

The FBI will be at Horizon Tuesday to recreate the scene and interview workers there. Horizon employs around 300 ground service agents with roughly 100 on each shift.

Grief counselors have responded to Russell's department, and therapy dogs were brought into the Horizon break room to help employees cope.

One of Russell's colleagues says he was always reading a book on his downtime. "He was very studious and a very hard worker. We’re all in shock.”

Co-workers tell KING 5's Susannah Frame that Russell seemed to like his job and did not seem angry or disturbed. One employee said, "I never heard him say he hated work. He just had normal complaints. Everybody complained about the wage.”

RELATED: Horizon worker who stole plane mentioned minimum wage from cockpit (https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/horizon-worker-who-stole-plane-mentioned-minimum-wage-from-cockpit/281-583129561)

Family friend Mike Mathews said the incident came as a "complete shock (https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/family-of-man-who-stole-crashed-plane-in-complete-shock/281-583047153)" to those who knew Russell.

COMPLETE COVERAGE OF STOLEN PLANE (https://www.king5.com/stolenplane)

Share your tips with KING 5 Investigator Susannah Frame: sframe@king5.com (mailto:https://twitter.com/SFrameK5)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There may be some more interesting details to be found, by following the above link: COMPLETE COVERAGE OF STOLEN PLANE (https://www.king5.com/stolenplane)

[Ascension]

The "secret missile launch" was an air ambulance captured by Skunk Bay Weather located on Whidbey island using a camera set to a 20 second exposure. Don't you wonder why, in an area populated by over 4 million people, that you only see that one shot of the missile? Not to mention that Whidbey Island is nowhere near Ketron, and a missile launch location at either place could not be confused.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/whidbey-Island-missile-air-force-one/

[O Donna]

That video shows some television news commentators on TV (Channel K5, King 5 (https://www.king5.com/), it seemed) wondering how it was possible for someone to fly a non-trivial mid-sized passenger plane on his first flight so well, and seemingly so casually.

The above bears repeating, that was some airshow flying that shows a fairly high level of flying confidence not echoed in the conversation with air traffic control.

One may trim puzzle pieces to fit where they don't belong but that does mean the official story belongs and so neatly explained.

"Go back to bed, America. Your government has figured out how it all transpired." - Bill Hicks

[KiwiElf]

The "secret missile launch" was an air ambulance captured by Skunk Bay Weather located on Whidbey island using a camera set to a 20 second exposure. Don't you wonder why, in an area populated by over 4 million people, that you only see that one shot of the missile? Not to mention that Whidbey Island is nowhere near Ketron, and a missile launch location at either place could not be confused.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/whidbey-Island-missile-air-force-one/

Sorry, that (fake) "convenient MSM story" of a time exposure of an air ambulance chopper was discussed at length on the "Q" thread months ago... and debunked (quite easily in fact) ;)

Perhaps it's worthwhile (and timely) for those who are new to "Q" to start checking it out? :sherlock:

The "Q" team on Avalon consists of about 10 - 15 members who are regularly contributing & "digging" info on the Q Thread, supplemented by video investigations by the likes of Praying Medic, X22, Serial Brain & Jordan Sather. Yes, we have some very smart "detectives" on Avalon.

The Anons on the 8CHAN "Q" Research team are in the thousands, from all over the world (and growing). Not surprising that they can "get it sorted" (ie find the facts) very quickly and accurately.

With respect, the "Q" Team & Anons' analysis of this are wayyyy ahead of you. :) (I'd suggest you read the earlier posts... carefully :) :thumbsup:)

[KiwiElf]

Summary of the Stolen Q400 Plane crash by the Anons: - theory cross posted from the "Q" thread (and NO, you're not going to see it in the fakestream media any time soon) ;)


Anonymous 08/15/18 (Wed) 06:29:55 1005b8 (1) No.2597321>>2597343 >>2597360 >>2597367 >>2597485 >>2597506

New information about the Q400 aircraft crash on Ketron Island has emerged.

The plane crash on the island was a cover for an aerial attack.

The F-15 escort was not only there to escort. It was there to attack a Cabal MIC-built underground hideout located on the island.

According to sources, the underground hideout facilitated a submarine dock where a decommissioned Sturgeon-class nuclear submarine was being kept.

The submarine that Q posted back in June (https://qanon.app/#1479) was the "USS Richard B. Russell", a Sturgeon-class submarine that was decommissioned in Washington State.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Richard_B._Russell_(SSN-687)

The image of that submarine was posted right after the photo of the Whidbey Island missile launch (https://qanon.app/#1476).

The name of the mechanic who allegedly hijacked the Q400 aircraft was Richard B. Russell.

There are no such thing as coincidences.

Q Post 1845:

"Autists catch the message?

Think missile.

Do you believe in coincidences?

Q"

The decommissioned USS Richard B. Russell was re-outfitted with a long range ballistic missile that was used in an attempt to assassinate Trump in AF1 prior to arriving in Singapore before the summit with Kim Jong-un.

The missile was armed with a nuclear warhead and was aimed to detonate in the ocean below Trump in AF1.

The Q400 aircraft was remote controlled to crash directly into the exact location of the underground hideout.

The plane flew in a circular pattern around Ketron Island that resembled a "Q" before crashing.

The F-15 escorting the Q400 aircraft then used a specialized weapons package to destroy the underground hideout.

The crash site was a cover for any smoke or explosions caused by the destruction of the underground hideout. The plane crash also served as a reason for the F-15 to be there.

The underground hideout and the submarine were successfully destroyed.

The covert operation was successful.

None of this could be publicly exposed as the public would be flabbergasted about the whole ordeal.

The released air traffic audio of the incident was pre-recorded. All an elaborate cover for the covert operation.

Side Note: The underground hideout on Ketron Island was also being used to facilitate satanic pedophilia activities. No children were present at the underground hideout at the time of the covert operation. If any children were present, they would've been extracted by special forces prior to the operation.

https://8ch.net/qresearch/res/2596707.html#2597321

[Bill Ryan]

According to sources, the underground hideout facilitated a submarine dock where a decommissioned Sturgeon-class nuclear submarine was being kept.

[ ... Anon post continues ... ]

That appears to come from this page. I've pasted the entire thing. :)

Do read it to the very end!


https://ashtarcommandcrew.net/forum/topics/update-by-sheldan-nidle-for-the-spiritual-hierarchy-and-the-889





(Disclaimer: The following is an overview of the current situation based on intelligence leaks received from several sources which may or may not accurate. Other confirmed sources may also be included in this overview.)

New information about the Q400 aircraft crash on Ketron Island has emerged.

The plane crash on the island was a cover for an aerial attack.

The F-15 escort was not only there to escort. It was there to attack a Cabal MIC-built underground hideout located on the island.

According to sources, the underground hideout facilitated a submarine dock where a decommissioned Sturgeon-class nuclear submarine was being kept.

The submarine that Q posted back in June (https://qanon.app/#1479) was the "USS Richard B. Russell", a Sturgeon-class submarine that was decommissioned in Washington State.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Richard_B._Russell_(SSN-687)

The image of that submarine was posted right after the photo of the Whidbey Island missile launch (https://qanon.app/#1476).

The name of the mechanic who allegedly hijacked the Q400 aircraft was Richard B. Russell.

There are no such thing as coincidences.

Q Post 1845:



"Autists catch the message?
Think missile.
Do you believe in coincidences?
Q"
The decommissioned USS Richard B. Russell was re-outfitted with a long range ballistic missile that was used in an attempt to assassinate Trump in AF1 prior to arriving in Singapore before the summit with Kim Jong-un.

The missile was armed with a nuclear warhead and was aimed to detonate in the ocean below Trump in AF1.

The Q400 aircraft was remote controlled to crash directly into the exact location of the underground hideout.



The plane flew in a circular pattern around Ketron Island that resembled a "Q" before crashing.

The F-15 escorting the Q400 aircraft then used a specialized weapons package to destroy the underground hideout.

The crash site was a cover for any smoke or explosions caused by the destruction of the underground hideout. The plane crash also served as a reason for the F-15 to be there.

The underground hideout and the submarine were successfully destroyed.

The covert operation was successful.

None of this could be publicly exposed as the public would be flabbergasted about the whole ordeal.

The released air traffic audio of the incident was pre-recorded. All an elaborate cover for the covert operation.

Side Note: The underground hideout on Ketron Island was also being used to facilitate satanic pedophilia activities. No children were present at the underground hideout at the time of the covert operation. If any children were present, they would've been extracted by special forces prior to the operation.

Meanwhile on the financial front, sources claim a back wall date was given for the RV release.

Zimbabwe's bond notes should now be legal tender as banks open globally today, Tuesday, August 14.

The release of the RV will be known once the invitations and instructions to exchange/redeem are published.

The RV will be an event that will flip the world right side up and contribute massively to humanity's ascension.

We will all be given a chance to remind humanity of compassion just as Jesus/Sananda/Yeshua did. This time, it will be global and there will be many of us.

Every soul on this planet will rise to Christ Consciousness.

The arrival of a new era of humanity is on the horizon.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Erk, Ashtar...

But it may have been pasted on their site from somewhere else. The text can also be found here:

https://operationdisclosure.blogspot.com/2018/08/rvintelligence-alert-new-era-august-14.html

I don't know anything about that website, but nothing of this 'intel' is sourced at all. It might be where it originated (timezones do my head in), but with mention of ascension and Sananda, it doesn't really matter! I'd air on the side of rationality, and steer well wide of it.

[Bill Ryan]

I'd air on the side of rationality, and steer well wide of it.

Yes. As a good ground rule for all serious researchers — on any subject — it DOES matter where claimed but unproven information comes from.


If Richard Dolan stated that he'd received some interesting information from an insider about the Secret Space Program, I'd be inclined to take him at his word.
If Corey Goode stated the same thing, I might not. :)

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Yes completely, Ashtar Command has zero credibility. Looking through that webpage I see the same NESARA schtick they were pedalling 10 years ago!

:smash:

[edina]

According to sources, the underground hideout facilitated a submarine dock where a decommissioned Sturgeon-class nuclear submarine was being kept.

[ ... Anon post continues ... ]

That appears to come from this page. I've pasted the entire thing. :)

Do read it to the very end!


https://ashtarcommandcrew.net/forum/topics/update-by-sheldan-nidle-for-the-spiritual-hierarchy-and-the-889





(Disclaimer: The following is an overview of the current situation based on intelligence leaks received from several sources which may or may not accurate. Other confirmed sources may also be included in this overview.)

New information about the Q400 aircraft crash on Ketron Island has emerged.

The plane crash on the island was a cover for an aerial attack.

The F-15 escort was not only there to escort. It was there to attack a Cabal MIC-built underground hideout located on the island.

According to sources, the underground hideout facilitated a submarine dock where a decommissioned Sturgeon-class nuclear submarine was being kept.

The submarine that Q posted back in June (https://qanon.app/#1479) was the "USS Richard B. Russell", a Sturgeon-class submarine that was decommissioned in Washington State.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Richard_B._Russell_(SSN-687)

The image of that submarine was posted right after the photo of the Whidbey Island missile launch (https://qanon.app/#1476).

The name of the mechanic who allegedly hijacked the Q400 aircraft was Richard B. Russell.

There are no such thing as coincidences.

Q Post 1845:



"Autists catch the message?
Think missile.
Do you believe in coincidences?
Q"
The decommissioned USS Richard B. Russell was re-outfitted with a long range ballistic missile that was used in an attempt to assassinate Trump in AF1 prior to arriving in Singapore before the summit with Kim Jong-un.

The missile was armed with a nuclear warhead and was aimed to detonate in the ocean below Trump in AF1.

The Q400 aircraft was remote controlled to crash directly into the exact location of the underground hideout.



The plane flew in a circular pattern around Ketron Island that resembled a "Q" before crashing.

The F-15 escorting the Q400 aircraft then used a specialized weapons package to destroy the underground hideout.

The crash site was a cover for any smoke or explosions caused by the destruction of the underground hideout. The plane crash also served as a reason for the F-15 to be there.

The underground hideout and the submarine were successfully destroyed.

The covert operation was successful.

None of this could be publicly exposed as the public would be flabbergasted about the whole ordeal.

The released air traffic audio of the incident was pre-recorded. All an elaborate cover for the covert operation.

Side Note: The underground hideout on Ketron Island was also being used to facilitate satanic pedophilia activities. No children were present at the underground hideout at the time of the covert operation. If any children were present, they would've been extracted by special forces prior to the operation.

Meanwhile on the financial front, sources claim a back wall date was given for the RV release.

Zimbabwe's bond notes should now be legal tender as banks open globally today, Tuesday, August 14.

The release of the RV will be known once the invitations and instructions to exchange/redeem are published.

The RV will be an event that will flip the world right side up and contribute massively to humanity's ascension.

We will all be given a chance to remind humanity of compassion just as Jesus/Sananda/Yeshua did. This time, it will be global and there will be many of us.

Every soul on this planet will rise to Christ Consciousness.

The arrival of a new era of humanity is on the horizon.



Yes completely, Ashtar Command has zero credibility. Looking through that webpage I see the same NESARA schtick they were pedalling 10 years ago!

:smash:

I disagree, the article Bill shared here is not the original source.

I read the anons on the boards discussing this several days ago.




This looks to be an compilation post of the various ideas and information that has been getting shared for several days now on the reddit boards.

It looks to be adapted to the ideology of this particular poster.

I don't think this is the original post.

There are many original posts on 8 chan and reddit.

I read many of those posts several days ago. This looks to be dated today.



Just a click through on his article link let me know this.
And a few click throughs on that one assured me of it. :)

If you click through to the source link on KiwiElf's comment you will see it is a post that is referred to on the chans as making sauce or baking bread. It's someone summarizing the various points that have come up in the recent days discussions on the topic.

The link Bill posted is not an Ashtar Command original, it's a copy/paste of the 8 chan summary, or previous channer's comments with some audience adaptions. The article Bill shared is in the comment section of that page he linked to.

The comment links to: https://operationdisclosure.blogspot.com/2018/08/rvintelligence-alert-new-era-august-14.html

Which links to: http://www.dinarchronicles.com/intel.html
Which is a sort of dead end page, looping back to the second one, kinda like Alexandra Bruce's website, Forbidden Knowledge loops everything back to itself.

[Bill Ryan]

Just a click through on his article link let me know this.
And a few click throughs on that one assured me of it. :)

If you click through to the source link on KiwiElf's comment you will see it is a post that is referred to on the chans as making sauce or baking bread. It's someone summarizing the various points that have come up in the recent days discussions on the topic.


I searched for the two-word phrase "underground hideout", which I thought might be unusual, on both this thread and the Qanon thread. It didn't feature in any post on either, until today.

To check, click on Search Thread (the button near the top right of every page), and then in the little drop-down menu that appears, choose Advanced Search. That takes you to something that looks the same as the regular whole-forum advanced search page, but it restricts the search to the thread you accessed it from.

Then enter the term "underground hideout" in quotes to preserve the phrase. There were no posts until these ones, today.

[Ascension]

The "secret missile launch" was an air ambulance captured by Skunk Bay Weather located on Whidbey island using a camera set to a 20 second exposure. Don't you wonder why, in an area populated by over 4 million people, that you only see that one shot of the missile? Not to mention that Whidbey Island is nowhere near Ketron, and a missile launch location at either place could not be confused.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/whidbey-Island-missile-air-force-one/

Sorry, that (fake) "convenient MSM story" of a time exposure of an air ambulance chopper was discussed at length on the "Q" thread months ago... and debunked (quite easily in fact) ;)

As I do not ever buy a mainstream news story at face value, I am attempting to sort through the Q take on this dubious Q400 story. However, when the fake missile launch began to rear it's ugly head, it immediately instilled doubt about Q as well as the Avalon experts. Avalon has always been my go to on alternative takes so this has me greatly concerned.

The Q material, on the surface, resembles all other "I'm a white hat, ask me anything" scenarios. Yes, there is excellent research going on behind the scenes, but the Whidbey "missile" story is not accurate and makes zero sense.

As a newbie to Q, it is difficult to sort through the Q research boards and I could not find the debunking of the story. I also could not find an Avalon thread on the original missile discussion. Would it be possible for you to direct me to the meat of the debunking of the debunking in either location? I would sincerely appreciate it.

[edina]

Just a click through on his article link let me know this.
And a few click throughs on that one assured me of it. :)

If you click through to the source link on KiwiElf's comment you will see it is a post that is referred to on the chans as making sauce or baking bread. It's someone summarizing the various points that have come up in the recent days discussions on the topic.


I searched for the two-word phrase "underground hideout", which I thought might be unusual, on both this thread and the Qanon thread. It didn't feature in any post on either, until today.

To check, click on Search Thread (the button near the top right of every page), and then in the little drop-down menu that appears, choose Advanced Search. That takes you to something that looks the same as the regular whole-forum advanced search page, but it restricts the search to the thread you accessed it from.

Then enter the term "underground hideout" in quotes to preserve the phrase. There were no posts until these ones, today.

I watched a video last night that referenced the term "underground hideout", it's been shared earlier in this thread, Link to Post #75 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103830-Passenger-plane-stolen-from-Sea-Tac.-What-are-the-options&p=1241908&viewfull=1#post1241908). (That video was published 12 August.)

Ashtar Command and it's affiliate sites are not the source for what KiwiElf shared.

What KiwiElf shared was from reddit, a baker, baking. (ie: summary of the discussion over the past few days.)

The video shared earlier is a good compilation of some of those chan conversations.

Note Added: One of the reasons people have been taking a closer look at the Seattle plane event is because it was mentioned directly by Q. These Q posts are covered in other places.

Today, Q posted this:

38781

Geo T is being interpreted to be Geothermal, or Geo Tracking, anons are relating this to finding underground facilities, so it is still a topic on the chans.

https://eesa.lbl.gov/technology/geot/

[KiwiElf]

Thanks edina :thumbsup: (crossposted)

Word for word, exactly as I posted it from 8CHAN. (NOTE: the timestamp date on 8CHAN may differ depending where you are located & in which part of the world)

https://8ch.net/qresearch/res/2596707.html#2597321

(click to enlarge)

38783

I might add that several "alternative websites" publish "Q" extracts of interest from the 8CHAN research boards - and put their own spin on it.

[Bill Ryan]

Thanks edina :thumbsup: (crossposted)

Word for word, exactly as I posted it from 8CHAN. (NOTE: the timestamp date on 8CHAN may differ depending where you are located & in which part of the world)



Kiwi, the Ashtar Command post (https://www.ashtarcommandcrew.net/forum/topics/update-by-sheldan-nidle-for-the-spiritual-hierarchy-and-the-889) came first, by about 3 hours. Look carefully at the timestamps. It doesn't matter what time zone you're in. 3 hours is 3 hours.

One of the important points for us all to bear in mind here is just because it's an Anon post on the Q board, it could be ANYONE posting ANYTHING from ANYWHERE, including stuff copied from ANYWHERE ELSE.

Relying on posts from an Anon, anywhere at all — especially unsubstantiated posts making utterly unprovable, wild claims! — isn't research. You may as well be copying YouTube comments from a kid somewhere, posting under a false name or using his Mom's account. How do you know who this is, or where the information's sourced from? You don't, and neither do any of us.

An anonymous source means exactly nothing, unless someone knows who they are (in which case, it may possibly be meaningful).

That's why we don't have anonymous posters here on Avalon. If we did, it'd be disinformation chaos on every thread. Think about it. :)

This is like a coffee table conversation between friends, and it can be fun and interesting and wild and highly speculative. But it's not research. As long as you know what you're doing, and why... it's all fine!

:flower:

:focus:

[KiwiElf]

As a newbie to Q, it is difficult to sort through the Q research boards and I could not find the debunking of the story. I also could not find an Avalon thread on the original missile discussion. Would it be possible for you to direct me to the meat of the debunking of the debunking in either location? I would sincerely appreciate it.

Hi Ascension,

OK, this is where it all starts regarding the "missile launch" but for context, best to perhaps start at the top of the page here to see what lead up to it (this is the main "Q" Thread on Avalon, btw):

The Qanon posts, and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - for some elite swamp critters (Nov 2017 and beyond)
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters--Nov-2017-and-beyond-/page244

It goes on for a few pages. Due to the nature of the "Q" posts themselves, you will find posts hopping to and fro over varying topics "Q" has posted. Unfortunately, if you haven't been following, you will find yourself in the "middle of the book" so to speak. You're about to jump down a VERY big rabbit hole. ;)

As new information arises, a particular topic may be discussed & updated a few days, weeks or months later (like now for example, as this Q400 crash is tied in to that earlier event - bigger picture here).

The "Q" posts themselves are on several mirrored websites and are generally included in the Avalon thread (above) as they come to hand. The main one we're using now is:

https://qanon.app/

Ive included a sample graphic for you which includes that Q post: (click to enlarge)

38784

If you scroll down to post #1476 (12 JUN), (they are all numbered in bold in the top right corner of each post - I've circled it in red); the blue numbers to the left (circled in green) are a direct link to the 8CHAN Research board for that particular post.

The most recent Q post is at the top left of the webpage, oldest at the bottom right. Only the "Q" team can post here. ("Q" is a group of people btw, not an individual).

Q Post #1476 is where "Q" posted the "missile" image and a correlating start date with the Avalon thread for you. After that, it gets discussed a bit randomly on the Avalon thread I'm afraid.

Please feel free to join us on the "Q thread" - this particular incident is being discussed there too (amongst all the others!)

BTW, The main 8CHAN Q Research site or "catalogue" is here (and it's massive):
https://8ch.net/qresearch/catalog.html

[turiya]

As a newbie to Q, it is difficult to sort through the Q research boards and I could not find the debunking of the story. I also could not find an Avalon thread on the original missile discussion. Would it be possible for you to direct me to the meat of the debunking of the debunking in either location? I would sincerely appreciate it.
Ascension

I will just add my 2cents worth...

Kiwi has explained it quite well, I will just add by saying, much of what the Q postings consist of are cryptic messages. Its been suggested by some, one being Jerome Corsi, who has had experience in security level coded messaging, and for Corsi he is confident in saying that the Q (team) [his opinion] is/are military intelligence personnel. This is what he had concluded after spending some serious time decoding the early messages.

As you said it yourself, you are "a newbie to Q". Out of all the many Q posted messages, several have the phrase, "Future proves past." What that suggests is that what Q has written in a posted message, it may come to show itself to be a fact at some point in future.

There has been many times that what Q has said comes to be true at a later future moment. The latest example is something I posted over at the Transition into Trump thread. (See Post #4654 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90590-Transition-into-Trump&p=1241862&viewfull=1#post1241862).) I will explain it in short:

Since at least April 4th 2018 Q has often made a reference to Sen. John McCain as not a person that is worthy of even uttering, or mentioning the name of the person, and has often referred to McCain as 'no name'. So, just recently (as a couple-three days ago) Trump gave a 35 minute speech announcing the JOHN S. McCAIN NATIONAL DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION ACT FOR FISCAL YEAR 2019 (https://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=D41EBCB5-697B-4F51-86D2-8FFBD3E2CDD9). In all that time Trump never mentioned John McCain's name. The Act was named after John McCain, and Trump never mentioned his name! Well, the MSM all went bonkers over this (see the MSM articles on this LINK (https://www.google.com/search?q=%22The+Defense+bill+no+mention+of+John+McCain&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiY4qPF1-vcAhXB6YMKHXN5BBQQ_AUICSgA&biw=1149&bih=564&dpr=1).) The bottom-line in this is that it shows that Trump & Q are on the same page - They don't say his name.

Q post:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZ_OVYHU8AAK8-9.jpg

Even in a Trump tweet that he posted, he didn't mention the specific FULL name of the Act. He called it the "National Defense Authorization Act", leaving off the first part of the JOHN MCCAIN name.







http://curezone.com/upload/_T_Forums/Turiya_Files_/AVALON/TRUMP/TRUMP_TWEETS/TRUMP_TWITTER_ICON_5.png (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1029134567356149762)

It was my great honor to sign our new Defense Bill into law and to pay tribute to the greatest soldiers in the history of the world: THE U.S. ARMY. The National Defense Authorization Act is the most significant investment in our Military and our warfighters in modern history!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dkg4azoVsAAbE93.jpg (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1029134567356149762)

3:36 PM - 13 Aug 2018 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1029134567356149762)There has been several other Q posted messages that have shown that Q (team) has been working closely in conjunction w/ POTUS. Those that see this are only those that have been following the Q posted messages for quite some time. Someone new - a newbie - will not get it, will not see it. Only those that are following the messaging will see it.

_____Late Add____________

From True Pundit today (15-August 2018)....










https://www.curezone.org/upload/_T_Forums/Turiya_Files_/AVALON/TRUMP/GENRL_TWEETS/THOMAS_PAINE_TRUE_PUNDIT.png (https://twitter.com/Thomas1774Paine/status/1029719375090274305)

Trump Signs Bill Named After Sen. McCain, Still Finds Way To Troll Rival

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1029362293384142849/g8bt2V4B?format=jpg&name=600x314 (https://truepundit.com/trump-signs-bill-named-after-sen-mccain-still-finds-way-to-troll-rival/)
Trump Signs Bill Named After Sen. McCain, Still Finds Way To Troll Rival
President Donald Trump on Monday signed a $716 billion defense policy bill named for John McCain but included no mention in his remarks of the Republican senator, who is [supposedly] battling brain cancer at home in Arizona. (Word in brackets is mine.) :)
truepundit.com

6:20 AM - 15 Aug 2018
__________________________

Its actually quite incredible what is taking place. Its an amazing time to be a witness to what is happening at this time in history. And it isn't confined to the U.S.A. Its growing & becoming a worldwide phenomenon.

You may want to consider paying more attention. Just saying... :)

Cheers

[ThePythonicCow]

Kiwi, the Ashtar Command post (https://www.ashtarcommandcrew.net/forum/topics/update-by-sheldan-nidle-for-the-spiritual-hierarchy-and-the-889) came first, by about 3 hours. Look carefully at the timestamps. It doesn't matter what time zone you're in. 3 hours is 3 hours.
When comparing two time stamps, if they are not both in the same time zone, the difference between the two time zones matters.

[KiwiElf]

Kiwi, the Ashtar Command post (https://www.ashtarcommandcrew.net/forum/topics/update-by-sheldan-nidle-for-the-spiritual-hierarchy-and-the-889) came first, by about 3 hours. Look carefully at the timestamps. It doesn't matter what time zone you're in. 3 hours is 3 hours.
When comparing two time stamps, if they are not both in the same time zone, the difference between the two time zones matters.

Thank you Paul.

Precisely my point. The 8CHAN timezones are date and time sensitive to the viewer's location. The timestamp on my frame grab is NZ time and Wednesday 15th, which if I'm not mistaken, hasn't happened in the US yet.

Furthermore, my post was not in ANY way presented as "fact". It WAS presented as a discussion point in the wider context of what "Q" and the Anons are discussing re this plane crash. Some aspects of this story are just not adding up. :sherlock:

Exactly which parts of my post are (proven) true, false, impossible or possible at this time?

All I "know" with absolute certainty, is that plane crashed on that island after careering around the sky, in what looks to me, to be flown by an "aerobatic pro"; it's an airliner, not a Pitts Special.

(Can the various "alternative" versions of Roswell, 9-11 or Sandy Hook be proven according to the "official narratives")?

I believe edina's post #88 on this thread explains the original source quite well (and video from a few days ago and on this thread). Reddit. (frequently referred to by the Anons,.. not "Ashtar Command").

It was assumed by me that serious readers of this thread would have seen that video prior to my post.

Sorry, as Turiya has said above, if you haven't been closely following "Q", you won't get it, and with utmost respect Bill, you have not been closely following "Q". (Nor do I consider your earlier posts on the "Q" Thread with your "dot joining" illustration, mocking other members, to be appropriate). We DO take it seriously, even if others don't. :)

When it comes to "Q", I can say with confidence, that I DO know what I'm talking about, thanks. ;)

[A Voice from the Mountains]

There has been several other Q posted messages that have shown that Q (team) has been working closely in conjunction w/ POTUS. Those that see this are only those that have been following the Q posted messages for quite some time. Someone new - a newbie - will not get it, will not see it. Only those that are following the messaging will see it.

I was skeptical of Q for a few weeks after it started too, until I started noticing the first proofs, which were syncs with Trump's tweets.

Here are a couple of examples of the kinds of things that keep happening:

https://s8.postimg.cc/f81hejd5x/image.png

https://s8.postimg.cc/5aqglm311/image.png

https://s8.postimg.cc/3vovwx4it/IMG_3731.jpg


There are lots of these but for some reason when I did a web search, the only results that came back were totally useless. I should have been saving and collecting these all along, but after I got the point I stopped looking for these verifications. In another instance, Trump tweeted three plus signs (+++) after Q, and yet another example was the use of the unusual phrase "tippy top."

You can see from the time stamps in the images above that Q will drop info in advance of POTUS or some other official releasing the same messaging, or words or imagery. Once you see Q "predict" what is coming next so many times, you just start taking it for granted and following along with the narrative being presented.

I've noticed that some hardcore skeptics over on Voat finally had to admit that Q is getting inside info, but then shifted to it all being fabricated propaganda from the Trump administration. Too bad much of the info being dropped isn't new to me, being the conspiracy theorist that I am, and the parts that are new are just filling in blanks and dropping clues regarding ongoing events such as this one involving this plane.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Yes completely, Ashtar Command has zero credibility. Looking through that webpage I see the same NESARA schtick they were pedalling 10 years ago!

:smash:

I disagree, the article Bill shared here is not the original source.

I read the anons on the boards discussing this several days ago.


I agree, I do think it was originally sourced elsewhere (as I had earlier speculated (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103830-Passenger-plane-stolen-from-Sea-Tac.-What-are-the-options&p=1242018&viewfull=1#post1242018)). I was just agreeing with Bill about Ashtar. To me it looks like the material Kiwi posted did originate from 'bakers' on 8chan. The likes of Ashtar and elsewhere just copy-pasted it and added their 'ascension' spin on the end. Of course, whether the original Anon post is true or not is another matter (it still lacks source). We continue to dig.

:)

[mountain_jim]

I reiterate the message from Voice above that is true for me also:



Once you see Q "predict" what is coming next so many times, you just start taking it for granted and following along with the narrative being presented.

I've noticed that some hardcore skeptics over on Voat finally had to admit that Q is getting inside info, but then shifted to it all being fabricated propaganda from the Trump administration. Too bad much of the info being dropped isn't new to me, being the conspiracy theorist that I am, and the parts that are new are just filling in blanks and dropping clues regarding ongoing events such as this one involving this plane.


Q is getting the inside info it's clear to me, and how much of it is propaganda verses oncoming Truth only Time Will Tell.

[Bill Ryan]

We've just been sent this e-mail, name provided.

~~~



I've been following PA for years. Even PC when it started. I agree with many things. I've never really had anything new to offer so I never felt compelled to join as a member.

I was reading the posts about the stolen Q400 and wanted to share that I was someone who was there that day and it was very real. People I work with knew him personally. The controversy isn't whether or not it happened -- it's what was it that made him a 'broken guy'.


The same correspondent, who worked at SeaTac with people who knew Russell well, has just now sent me this:




With regard to 'what it was that made him a "broken guy".' I could never say it publicly without risking my livelihood, so I'm glad that someone else did:

https://thestranger.com/slog/2018/08/17/30824665/i-worked-with-richard-russell-at-horizon-air-and-i-understand-why-he-did-what-he-did (https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/08/17/30824665/i-worked-with-richard-russell-at-horizon-air-and-i-understand-why-he-did-what-he-did)

Here's the article:

I Worked With Richard Russell at Horizon Air, and I Understand Why He Did What He Did
by Todd Bunker (https://www.thestranger.com/authors/30825897/todd-bunker)
Aug 17, 2018 at 8:45 am





I was surprised to wake up last Saturday morning to the headlines. Not completely shocked, but surprised nonetheless. I was a ground service agent at Horizon Air for the better part of 2016, and I worked alongside Richard "Beebo" Russell. As ground service agents, we handled luggage, walked through planes for final inspection, and pushed them out onto the taxiway.

We weren’t close, barely acquaintances, which seems odd considering the tight quarters and the foxhole mentality that is required to work in these particular roles. But with the high turnover (if you follow Horizon Air jobs (https://horizonair.jobs/), you will know they are always hiring that position (https://horizonair.jobs/career-opportunities-ground-service-agents/) for SeaTac), it’s not that hard to imagine.

Day-to-day survival on The Ramp (the area between the terminal and the taxiway, where passengers are loaded and unloaded, baggage is handled, planes fueled, etc.) requires a lot of sacrifice to keep the planes moving. It would be difficult enough if the inadequate break room didn’t always resemble a crowded, sweatbox college party—but without any drugs or alcohol, and nobody having fun. Brought your lunch to save spending $10 buying a meal in the terminal? Sure hope it’s still in the fridge when you get your lunch break. Nasty emails directed to anonymous lunch bandits were a common occurrence. There was a locker room, but not enough lockers for everyone. Think about how many layers are required to work in the weather in Seattle, and then think about where you might put your jacket, gloves, etc., when you don’t need them without them getting stolen, if you don’t have a locker. These things aren’t luxuries; they are a basic part of work life.

Going into the job, I knew that there was a sharp disconnect between the shiny happy side of the terminal, and the grit on the ground. What I didn’t realize was how much like a military base it was run. Which makes sense, historically, and which is why Horizon and other airlines recruit heavily from military bases. I went through initial training with a guy who had just spent 10 years in the army.

"How was that?" I asked him.

"Well, I didn’t blow my brains out," was his reply.

So I supposed working at Horizon was an upgrade for him. When a lot of your supervisory staff and co-workers are ex-military you begin to realize what being expendable is. I believe Beebo was acutely aware of that—because we all were. It's the kind of dehumanizing situation that could lead to what happened on August 10.

If the environment itself isn’t enough to persuade you that you are nothing more than a cog to the upper management/shareholders, there are plenty of other, even more exasperating reminders. You are making around $3 less per hour than anybody else at SeaTac (including other airline employees, restaurant employees, car rental employees, bus drivers, etc.), although there are benefits! Health insurance and stock options might be nice, but they don’t pay the rent. However, a vast majority of the ground service agents are men under age 30, so insurance and stock options mean nothing to them. They become empty gestures from a management who knows you’ll never use them, and thus cost the company little.

But that's only one part of the picture. To be clear, the people I worked with were dedicated, hard working, safety-conscious, attempting to be loyal—all of the things that are supposed to get you ahead in America. But the workers on the ground and our immediate supervisors could barely keep our heads above water. As a subsidiary of Alaska Air Group, Horizon Air is the proverbial red-headed stepchild. It is glaringly clear to everyone who works there that cost-cutting by the executive team(s) in order to keep the shareholders happy is the main goal, and Horizon is the first stop on the belt-tightening train.

We the lowest level employees knew that when the record quarterly earnings report came out there wasn’t going to be any trickle down. When I worked for Horizon, we were cursing our low-wage fate in the break room, while Alaska was spending $2.5 billion acquiring Virgin America (gotta keep up with Delta), and then investing another $2.5 billion upgrading their turboprop airplane fleet to jets. Acquisitions and sexy new jets play well at the stockholder meeting; increased labor costs do not.

The first thing I thought when I heard the news about a plane being stolen by a Horizon employee was, "Ah yes, the end of summer. Of course." Summer is nearly constantly as busy as the holiday season.

My summer of 2016 kicked off with a new schedule (we bid on shifts every 3-4 months), which as it turns out was literally generated by a computer program. X number of flights, X number of employees, some advanced mathematics, and poof! Perfection. Except the schedule that summer was so out of touch with what was going on on the ground that a handful of veteran employees went to management and successfully lobbied for a "do-over," because the schedule as presented was unrealistic, and featured far too many new employees at a given time compared to experienced ones.

An important perk are monthly bonuses, which can range from $50-200 a month depending on whether "target numbers" are hit. About halfway through my summer tenure at Horizon Air, we were informed that the bonus structure was being revamped. It now included delays caused by weather and Air Traffic Control, circumstances completely out of our control. This was described as "more realistic to the situation on the ground." It was more like a morale murderer.

This is all to say that I can understand what could drive a normal person to do what Richard Russell did: He saw his chance for relevance—to be simply acknowledged as an individual human being—and grabbed it. I don’t condone it, and wish it would have turned out with a spectacular landing that he could've walked away from as a folk hero to some (myself included). I'll leave the question of exactly how he did it to the investigators.

Richard's situation was not unusual for what has morphed into a wage-slave economy. The fact that he had access to a plane makes it sensational. There are plenty of people out there making not-enough money, and they keep plugging along, not stealing multi-million dollar aircraft and crashing them.

But the next time you’re at SeaTac, take the chance to look out at Horizon’s gates from the main food court, and marvel at the controlled chaos on the ground. Off to your left, you’ll see baggage tugs speeding to and from the catacombs under the terminal. Farther out, Delta planes lurk, large.

And when you step onto the stairway of your next flight, holding that Big Mac you bought in the terminal because otherwise there's no reasonably priced food on the plane (customers are now just numbers, too), remember that the person who flipped your burger is probably making $3/hr more than the person who handles your luggage, walks around the plane doing final inspections, and ultimately pushes the plane full of 76 souls (as we used to say) out to the overcrowded taxiway to send you off safely.

Your life depends on the work they do.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

That article could easily have referred to the airport where I work. A good 2,000 people work on the ground there, and some that i know, who have worked at other airports, say it's exactly the same. It's basically all over.

I worked on the ramp too for a spell, for Servisair (a different ground handling company), but it was the same. I remember the chaos, the shouting, and the rushing to and from to beat the turnaround. I remember the awful wages. I remember the rotting fridge with a broken door in the cramped little cabin we had for a break room. And I remember the management clones in their suits, strutting around and regarding you as somewhat less than an insect in the scale of things.

I remember their dirty tricks too, like changing the job titles, eg from 'operative' to 'technician', and the employment loop-hole they exploited by doing that, because a different title meant a different job (when in fact they were exactly the same), but they did it because it meant we had to re-apply for our own jobs! and those who were unsuccessful were pruned (unsuccessful applicants means no redundancy payout!) Total slime. Every single thing in that article is true, 100%.

And what else is true is that I know people who have lost it in various airport jobs - ramp agents, bus drivers, security, check-in people, whatever. I can think of half a dozen off the top of my head who literally snapped, and went on the sick long term. Cause: "work related stress". And of course, no one 'upstairs', as we call them, ever gives a damn about it, in fact they rejoice when that happens, because they get to replace the position with bottom dollar agency staff without any experience or skills (and sometimes, without even the English language).

But I can still honestly say, every one of those ramp employees, myself included (at the time, I work in different part of the airport now), who was on and off of planes all day long, didn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of actually starting one up (we never go in the cockpit), let alone hitting a taxiway, to say nothing of taking off. Going on the basis of aeroplanes in one's work-environment a stewardess has more chance of knowing actually how to fly one than a ground handler - which is to say none at all.

Whatever really did happen with Richard Russell, he must have been an experienced pilot, and not a mere ground-handler - absolutely no way. Someone definitely isn't telling the truth here.

[Michelle Marie]

A true story...one time I met what I thought was a friend and co-worker of my nephew. I was only visiting, so I didn't know his friends or who he worked with. After a strange twist of events, this guy was driving away with me in the car. When I asked him about working with my nephew, he gave me this long elaborate story. Pretty convincing.

But then, my intuition kicked in. It was very strong. He was up to no good. I told him I did not want to go anywhere with him, not to the store...nowhere, and that I had free will choice. He pretended to turn around, but he did not. He was abducting me! I said a prayer, then in another surreal turn of events, I jumped out of the moving vehicle.

I hid until I knew he was gone. I was bruised and shaken. After I got back to where I was staying, I learned that he had just met him that night at a bar and the guy had just given my nephew a ride home. One day later, I flew back home.

That's making the story short. So, my own personal experience of someone saying they worked with someone who didn't in order to deceive and manipulate, makes that a distinct possibility.

Either way, the truth will eventually emerge. I have faith in that. :)

MM

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Although I must admit I'm one of those who suspects there's more to this story than we know, I also realize sometimes people just do things spur of the moment.

The video below is a perfect example: Couple steals a firetruck at the scene of a fire, and take it on a 75- mile an hour, 4-county, 2 hr chase.

In one video (don't know if it's this one) he said when caught: Well it was there, and I thought, why not. And yes, drugs were involved.


https://www.kcra.com/article/2-arrested-after-multi-agency-chase-of-stolen-fire-truck/22149686

Back to Sea-Tac. The fact that he did loop de loops at such a low elevation without crashing and his name being the same as a submarine, does give me pause on this one. Also the fact that air control didn't go dark.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Amazing MM, you did a very brave (and wise) thing jumping out when you did! :clapping:

Did you call the police on him? From the stunt he pulled and the lies he told I wouldn't be surprised if he'd done it all before. He damn well sounds like serial predator.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Back to Sea-Tac. The fact that he did loop de loops at such a low elevation without crashing and his name being the same as a submarine, does give me pause on this one. Also the fact that air control didn't go dark.

A barrel role is an advanced manoeuvre, especially at low elevation. That's 100s of hours in the seat, and in this particular plane. A novice pilot wouldn't even try it unsupervised.

A turboprop airliner of this calibre is a hundred miles from a Cessna. And a Cessna is about million miles away from a truck, a bus, or a train (to you or me). A non-pilot has as much chance of pulling this off as my grandmother scoring the winning touchdown at the superbowl (and she's been dead 33 years).

Even if he really did snap, went totally doo-lally tits up around the bend mental. He gets into the cockpit, and he's confronted with this:

https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/4/64889_1333836944.jpg

The Bombardier Dash 8. He might as well be on the space shuttle. Forget advanced manoeuvres like barrel rolls or loop the loops, first he has to get it rolling out of the gate and onto the taxiway. When I look at these controls and imagine, 'ok, how I would I steal this plane?' I reckon I'd be dragged off by an armed unit long before I figured out just how to get the wipers working!

By evidence of his aerobatics, he has to be an experienced pilot. One does not simply climb into the flight seat of an airliner and press 'go.'

[Bill Ryan]

That's making the story short. So, my own personal experience of someone saying they worked with someone who didn't in order to deceive and manipulate, makes that a distinct possibility.

It's a theoretical possibility. Not a distinct one.

I'm in very little personal doubt that the story told by Todd Bunker (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103830-Passenger-plane-stolen-from-SeaTac.-What-are-the-options&p=1242742&viewfull=1#post1242742) was 100% real. As Star Mariner reported (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103830-Passenger-plane-stolen-from-SeaTac.-What-are-the-options&p=1242760&viewfull=1#post1242760), this kind of demeaning working environment is hardly unique. People can do strange and unpredictable things when they're under great internal pressure, harming themselves and/or others. Sometimes, people really do break.

If we started an Avalon thread about people we'd once known personally who'd suddenly snapped like a twig and did something major, bizarre and inexplicable, it might be a very long thread.

I'd suggest that if members DID share those stories, we should believe them. We believe your story about the near-abduction in the car, yes? (And so should we, too. There's no reason to DISbelieve you. Witnesses are witnesses.)

I'd also be extremely confident that the e-mail that was sent to us was also real and sent in good faith. Read the energy!

And any moderator can write to the person to establish their own dialog, if they wish. If we want to do research, then we can talk to people. We maybe shouldn't be wildly guessing (and accusing) without reference to honestly offered witness testimony. Or else, we're just manufacturing our own fantasy, with no regard to feet-on-the-ground evidence.

If course, anyone can write anything. But so can people writing on this thread who are members, or people writing anonymously on any other blog who are then quoted faithfully as if we knew who they were.

As I always used to say when I worked with Project Camelot: there's a lot of weird stuff out there, and some of it true.

But not ALL of it. That was always my point, and I'd suggest we should maybe never forget that. :)

[norman]

It's a REALLY TUFF ONE !


It's just about impossible to believe he flew that plane.


It's just about impossible to believe a guy who worked there longer than a few short weeks ( on a crock exercise for white hats ) had that exact real name.


I've been waiting for someone to find out he only worked there 3 weeks or so. That doesn't seem to be the case.


I'm baffled on this one.

[Bill Ryan]

Back to Sea-Tac. The fact that he did loop de loops at such a low elevation without crashing and his name being the same as a submarine, does give me pause on this one. Also the fact that air control didn't go dark.

A barrel role is an advanced manoeuvre, especially at low elevation. That's 100s of hours in the seat, and in this particular plane. A novice pilot wouldn't even try it unsupervised.

A turboprop airliner of this calibre is a hundred miles from a Cessna. And a Cessna is about million miles away from a truck, a bus, or a train (to you or me). A non-pilot has as much chance of pulling this off as my grandmother scoring the winning touchdown at the superbowl (and she's been dead 33 years).

Even if he really did snap, went totally doo-lally tits up around the bend mental. He gets into the cockpit, and he's confronted with this:

https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/4/64889_1333836944.jpg

The Bombardier Dash 8. He might as well be on the space shuttle. Forget advanced manoeuvres like barrel rolls or loop the loops, first he has to get it rolling out of the gate and onto the taxiway. When I look at these controls and imagine, 'ok, how I would I steal this plane?' I reckon I'd be dragged off by an armed unit long before I figured out just how to get the wipers working!

By evidence of his aerobatics, he has to be an experienced pilot. One does not simply climb into the flight seat of an airliner and press 'go.'

Yes, I completely get the point! :)

But: I did see one knowledgeable person in a recent TV news interview (forgive me: I can probably find and quote it if pushed), who emphasized that if anyone really wanted to learn online how to fly a Q400 (or anything else!), with reference to detailed flight manuals and also simulators, starting, taxiing and taking off, it might be FAR FAR easier than we might ever think.

He was so emphatic about this, he declined to give the details of where all this stuff was. He didn't want to encourage any copycatting.

It's NOT the same, but someone could steal a firetruck, too as in Ba-ba-Ra's post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103830-Passenger-plane-stolen-from-SeaTac.-What-are-the-options&p=1242764&viewfull=1#post1242764). I also knew someone who stole her father's car when she was a 12 year old girl, having only just watched him drive. She was so small, she could hardly see over the steering wheel. She went on a long joy ride, through traffic, and returned it with no damage. No barrel rolls! But, still. :)

[avid]

My friend is a really keen flier of all sorts of planes (including huge passenger jets) via his flight simulation ‘bedroom’, we have been privy to a lot of the progress of his ‘flights’ across the world. If he can do it, so can loads of people. I also remember him performing aerobatics via his simulator. We were worried at the time for his ‘safety’, but the implications are horrendous.

[KiwiElf]

Back to Sea-Tac. The fact that he did loop de loops at such a low elevation without crashing and his name being the same as a submarine, does give me pause on this one. Also the fact that air control didn't go dark.

A barrel role is an advanced manoeuvre, especially at low elevation. That's 100s of hours in the seat, and in this particular plane. A novice pilot wouldn't even try it unsupervised.

A turboprop airliner of this calibre is a hundred miles from a Cessna. And a Cessna is about million miles away from a truck, a bus, or a train (to you or me). A non-pilot has as much chance of pulling this off as my grandmother scoring the winning touchdown at the superbowl (and she's been dead 33 years).

Even if he really did snap, went totally doo-lally tits up around the bend mental. He gets into the cockpit, and he's confronted with this:

https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/4/64889_1333836944.jpg

The Bombardier Dash 8. He might as well be on the space shuttle. Forget advanced manoeuvres like barrel rolls or loop the loops, first he has to get it rolling out of the gate and onto the taxiway. When I look at these controls and imagine, 'ok, how I would I steal this plane?' I reckon I'd be dragged off by an armed unit long before I figured out just how to get the wipers working!

By evidence of his aerobatics, he has to be an experienced pilot. One does not simply climb into the flight seat of an airliner and press 'go.'

I'd add it's a massive jump going from just a desktop PC Simulator, irrespective of how realistic it may be (eg FSXSE), to a real full motion cockpit simulator, too. (like the video Hip posted on page 1 of this thread, & below). That kid still had an instructor seated next to him, telling him what to do.

DfdpuBg8uvI

This particular "simulated aircraft", (made by the sim firm, "Majestic"), is one of the most complex PC FSim aircraft models available.

http://www.simreviews.com/2016/02/08/majestic-dash-8-q400-pro-edition/

Yes, it's so good, the "Pilot" version of it is used for real training. Again, posted by Hip - this is the exact model - the start instructions are about half way though... (this reviewer is well known in the FSim community & has done several more on the Q400 following this first video). I cannot understate its complexity (far more so than the 737 jet in the video above). As noted in the video, the "flight engine" (ie the physics of "how it works" & emulates the real thing) on this one comes from NASA, not Microsoft.

c_pyJHsGwMw

Airline Pilots training on an aircraft like this are already qualified, experienced, real Commercial pilots with a minimum of 250+ hours logged in real airplanes. (I seriously doubt even they would attempt maneuvers like this in a real Q400).

As Ron has pointed out, even a full motion simulator (the types that airlines use & unlikely he'd have access to that, either - someone would know if he did - they ain't "toys"), lacks "G-Force" or a completely "real" sense of speed & movement (let alone aerobatics like barrel rolls & loops).

I'm still not buying it. ;)

[Michelle Marie]

No matter what the cover story is, the main thing that has been brought to the surface and into our awareness is that, allegedly, billionaires are on these islands and it has been reported they enslave underage children and use them for sex or ritual abuse. If they have missile capabilities and are operating outside the law to cause great harm and destruction, it is well worth the effort to research what is going on there.

I doubt any stealth operation is going to be revealed before it is complete. And, if by some stretch, a crazy worker took off on a plane and drew attention to the islands and the submarine by his name, well it may prove to be beneficial in the whole scheme of things.

It was amazing to hear the testimony on the dauntless dialogue channel that was posted on the neon revolt thread.

The truth will come out. The children will be protected.

MM

[Foxie Loxie]

YES! This is about the children....as Praying Medic says! :heart:

What has been going on worldwide is simply incomprehensible to most of us! Good point, Michelle! :highfive:

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

But: I did see one knowledgeable person in a recent TV news interview (forgive me: I can probably find and quote it if pushed), who emphasized that if anyone really wanted to learn online how to fly a Q400 (or anything else!), with reference to detailed flight manuals and also simulators, starting, taxiing and taking off, it might be FAR FAR easier than we might ever think.

Interesting Bill. I must admit, I didn't know a whole lot (ok, anything) about video game flight simulators. Not my thing, so I didn't take his statement of 'playing video games' as being at all realistic. But after reading up on these systems - wow, I never knew. They don't just simulate a true-to-life flying experience, they instruct too, and not on a gimbal at Boeing or NASA, but on a humble deskop PC! Turn, yaw, lift and drag, all the manoeuvring, all the avionics faithfully reproduced. I suppose if you added VR to this, it'd be even more realistic.

Taking this in, I can see how this might be possible without a pilot license, or any real-world experience at all.

They say he was employed there for 3½ years. Working around a real physical Bombardier on a regular basis, that's more than enough time to watch, study, photograph the inner and outer workings of this plane, and even ask questions of pilots to prepare a spectacular suicide. But that would mean it was pre-meditated, not a crazy impulse. Doing his homework, practicing on a home simulator, and having the will to do this, I do think it's at least possible.

This brings up a slightly worrying addendum. Do ultra-real simulators on home PCs pose a danger to airport security? If Richard Russell really flew this plane, so could someone else. And even if he didn't, what's to stop some cracked copycat gamer stealing a plane for real one day, to go out in a blaze of glory?

Food for thought, and I could actually persuade myself to lean more in favour of this theory - had Q not sent us sniffing in another direction. So, I don't completely rule out the white hat theory either, that Russell might have been an undercover spook on a deep op.

[KiwiElf]

This brings up a slightly worrying addendum. Do ultra-real simulators on home PCs pose a danger to airport security? If Richard Russell really flew this plane, so could someone else. And even if he didn't, what's to stop some cracked copycat gamer stealing a plane for real one day, to go out in a blaze of glory?

In the first place, we're assuming this guy meant "flight sim" when he said "video games". (First time I've heard of a flight sim referred to as a "video game" if that was in fact what he meant; most of us "Flight Simmers" would defend & use the term "Flight Sim" - they really are Simulators, in as much that they replicate most of the functions & flight characteristics of the real thing, not so much a game).

I'm not aware that other aircraft have been stolen in this way, ie by PC Sim Pilots (which is not to say it hasn't happened - it would be a rare occurrence, and with much smaller, less complex aircraft). Plenty of aircraft get stolen, especially in drug-running ops but they're stolen by real pilots. ;)

Assuming that the "official narrative" is true, I think this "incident" would, at the moment, be the record for a stolen aircraft in terms of its size & complexity by a "non-pilot". More a case that aero clubs and airports may have to change their attitudes to security, (just as most of us these days wouldn't leave our homes with the doors unlocked or windows wide open - some still do). ;)

Most people are trusting by nature. Airport "people" wouldn't generally think someone is going to steal an airplane (after this, that belief may change!). Like cars, some are trusting enough to leave them unlocked & with the "keys in the ignition" or hidden under the seat or sun visor (first place I'd look!). :bigsmile:

I mentioned at the start of this thread; with the exception of most small, single-engine piston airplanes, they don't need keys to start, just a key to unlock the doors.

If it really started to become a problem, a simple "control lock" (a lockable brace which prevents the flight controls operating), or an alarm and "demobiliser" as fitted to cars would be possible solutions, (along with much tighter airport security)?

And again, that's just a few more reasons why I'm not buying the "official narrative" as it presently stands. :sherlock:

EDIT: Yes, Star Mariner, you can plug-in the 3-D VR Flight Goggles to go, for that added sense of realism! ;)

[KiwiElf]

Flight Data Recorder found, Q400 destroyed beyond recognition.

CntIElI5nK4

https://fox6now.com/2018/08/12/flight-data-recorder-from-stolen-plane-recovered-officials-say-aircraft-destroyed-beyond-recognition/

And to address some of the security concerns raised above (excerpt):


Experts said the crash exposed alarming gaps in airport security, and is likely to prompt a major review of industry security measures.

“This is going to be a major learning event for the industry,” CNN aviation analyst Justin Green said. “This is a really big deal.”

Russell managed to steal the 76-seat Horizon Air turboprop from a maintenance area by himself. He was in uniform, had proper credentials and had clearance to be in secure aircraft areas, said Tilden, the airline CEO.

“They’re credential employees. They’re there to work on the airplanes. … This is aviation in America. The doors of the airplanes are not keyed like a car. There is not an ignition key like a car. The setup in aviation in America is we secure the airfield,” Tilden said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/13/seattle-stolen-plane-fbi-recovers-flight-data-recorder-from-crash-site


Further reading: Stealing a Plane Is Not Easy, So How Did It Happen in Seattle?

https://www.wired.com/story/seattle-stolen-plane-investigation/

[norman]

No sign of a fire at the crash site ?

[Bill Ryan]

No matter what the cover story is, the main thing that has been brought to the surface and into our awareness is that, allegedly, billionaires are on these islands and it has been reported they enslave underage children and use them for sex or ritual abuse. If they have missile capabilities and are operating outside the law to cause great harm and destruction, it is well worth the effort to research what is going on there.

Here's Ketron Island, with smoke rising from the crash site.

http://projectavalon.net/Ketron_Island.jpg

Here are two screenshots of an aerial view of the crash debris, presumably captured with a drone. You can see the splintered large trees. The source video is the one posted by KiwiElf here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103830-Passenger-plane-stolen-from-SeaTac.-What-are-the-options&p=1242994&viewfull=1#post1242994).

http://projectavalon.net/Ketron_Island_Q400_crash_site_1.jpg

http://projectavalon.net/Ketron_Island_Q400_crash_site_2.jpg

Meanwhile, here's the final radio broadcast before he crashed. (just 14 seconds)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqIt90KIYSQ

It's pretty low in volume, so I amplified it. Here it is as a short MP3.


http://projectavalon.net/Richard_Russell_Q400_last_radio_broadcast.mp3

My comment, if I may, with no sarcasm attached or intended: I don't see any missile silos, or children, in any of the photos. It looks like a plane crash on a small forested island to me, and I'm 100% sure that's just what it was.

[KiwiElf]

No sign of a fire at the crash site ?

Another "mystery"... if the fuel readouts from the "non-pilot" are correct, the plane would have been low on fuel at the time of impact - but not critically so - (some might say, "running on fumes") - not at all ... he last reported 2,100 lbs remaining which may or may not be correct - that's approx 313 gallons of Jet A1 - Kerosene, slightly less than that when it crashed, which was only a few minutes later, (he said he started with 3,000 lbs = roughly 20-25% full). What remained, (if he was correct), would still be enough for a significant explosion. (We haven't yet seen any video of the actual impact or the few seconds leading up to it, which in itself is a bit odd considering all the other video footage... shades of the 9-11/Pentagon attack?). :idea:

Here's some info on the fuel flow (or burn) of the Q400:
https://www.flyradius.com/bombardier-q400/fuel-burn-consumption

Its maximum fuel capacity is 1,724 U.S. gal /11,550 lbs/ 6,526 L.

ie this equates to burning approx 1,800 lbs (268 galls) - 2,700 lbs (402 galls) per hour. At such a low altitude, it would be higher, depending on how fast you go! ;)

That aside, it's surprising that there wasn't a more "significant" fire (and a lot more wreckage than what we're seeing in the above video); there are components of the engines which would have been red hot. Turboprops are jet engines turning propellers; (the engines idle @ around 10,000 rpm - they would have been turning a lot faster than that at impact).

NOTE: The "Q" team are referring to a sub; near, submerged or harboured at the island, (which [allegedly] fired the missiles), not a ground installation or missile silo on the Island.

They are suggesting a pedo operation hidden on the island (underground) similar to Epstein Island. ie, the plane itself was used as a "missile" to take out the pedo base OR, a distraction for the fighter jets really being there to do the same (and/or the sub), OR at least a warning to those running it.

Who knows? :):popcorn:

[KiwiElf]

What's wrong with this picture? (please see my updated post above) ...


No sign of a fire at the crash site ?

Here's video aftermath & wreckage of a six-seat, twin piston-engine Cessna 414 (a fraction of the size of a Dash 8), pilot lost control after running out of fuel, it stalled, & nosedived straight down into a Parking Lot in Santa Ana a couple of weeks ago.

It ran out of fuel. = no explosion.

HS5UVsCHLd8

uOahfZCql60

Here's the crash & aftermath of an even smaller, piston, single-engine six-seater Cessna Pressurised Centurion which was low on fuel.

9D1WKnZaUoo

And here's the crash scene & ensuing fireball of a six-seat, Cessna Citation 525 private jet, deliberately crashed into a home with lots of fuel (at least as much fuel as the Dash 8 still should have had remaining in its tanks)...
It's a little bigger than the first aircraft - but ALL significantly smaller than a Dash 8.

(NO, I'm not giving Cessna a hard time - no fault of the aircraft in all three ... ;)).

DiqtiAJrMvI

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6055389/Utah-man-crashes-plane-home-estranged-wife-son-inside.html

... The Ketron Island Crash scene... (from above)

38824

38825

Are we really "getting the BIG picture"? :sherlock:

[ThePythonicCow]

That's making the story short. So, my own personal experience of someone saying they worked with someone who didn't in order to deceive and manipulate, makes that a distinct possibility.

It's a theoretical possibility. Not a distinct one.

I'm in very little personal doubt that the story told by Todd Bunker (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103830-Passenger-plane-stolen-from-SeaTac.-What-are-the-options&p=1242742&viewfull=1#post1242742) was 100% real. As Star Mariner reported (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103830-Passenger-plane-stolen-from-SeaTac.-What-are-the-options&p=1242760&viewfull=1#post1242760), this kind of demeaning working environment is hardly unique. People can do strange and unpredictable things when they're under great internal pressure, harming themselves and/or others. Sometimes, people really do break.

Essentially all the detail in Todd Bunker's story rings true enough to me.

But I saw no detail, other than the claim that Todd "worked alongside" Rich Russell, though they were "barely acquaintances", that provided any evidence, or even suggested any claims, that it was an actual, long standing, co-worker of his that flew that Q400 up and around and into the ground.

For someone who is a good writer, with interesting details ... it seems odd that there are no details of Rich Russell in what he wrote. What Todd provides in well written detail is a plausible motive for someone in his job "going out with a bang" - that motive being: life sucks on the ramp.

I will confess that I feel no more the wiser than I was before as to what actually happened.

This continues to feel to me like one of those many headline stories in which what really happened is substantially and deliberately different than what we're told happened.

Of course, I am also pretty sure that I've seen reports, from previous such falsely reported events, that purported to be from people who knew the victims or knew the perpetrator(s), that were actually part of the deliberate coverup of the truth.

[KiwiElf]

Essentially all the detail in Todd Bunker's story rings true enough to me.

But I saw no detail, other than the claim that Todd "worked alongside" Rich Russell, though they were "barely acquaintances", that provided any evidence, or even suggested any claims, that it was an actual, long standing, co-worker of his that flew that Q400 up and around and into the ground.

For someone who is a good writer, with interesting details ... it seems odd that there are no details of Rich Russell in what he wrote. What Todd provides in well written detail is a plausible motive for someone in his job "going out with a bang" - that motive being: life sucks on the ramp.

I will confess that I feel no more the wiser than I was before as to what actually happened.

This continues to feel to me like one of those many headline stories in which what really happened is substantially and deliberately different than what we're told happened.

Of course, I am also pretty sure that I've seen reports, from previous such falsely reported events, that purported to be from people who knew the victims or knew the perpetrator(s), that were actually part of the deliberate coverup of the truth.

Agreed Paul,

Todd writes SO well that maybe he should pursue it as a new career, given his current job seems to be a bit sucky, by all accounts! :confused:

Reminds me of the "professional witnesses" interviewed in every false flag operation, from JFK & 9-11 onwards... (and I still don't buy it!) :). Too "convenient" when it so "eloquently" fits the "official narrative"... I STILL have a LOT of unanswered questions... even more than I had before ... (above) ;) :sherlock:

[Ascension]

There doesn't appear to be footage of the actual crash. Close but no cigar is this video from Chambers Bay, where you see a low flying plane disappear behind the island, then, at the moment of impact you hear the photographer & companions reacting, and see a person in the foreground reacting, but no footage of the actual impact. It then cuts to a distant shot of the plume. Why did they stop filming at the moment of impact? It's not clear why they were filming in the first place, unless maybe the sound caught their attention, because the plane certainly isn't very visible in the footage. Or maybe it had been overhead and they were following it.

fbv5HvPS6cU

Of all the places to go down in the Puget Sound area, this would be one of the most remote while still remaining in plain site. A tiny island with few inhabitants, and no immediate access. Even a water crash would've given the opportunity for more public scrutiny.

This video does excel at being completely useless since it seems to show that something may have crashed either with or without a pilot. Lol, gets right to the heart of the story.

[norman]

. . . . For someone who is a good writer, with interesting details ... it seems odd that there are no details of Rich Russell in what he wrote. What Todd provides in well written detail is a plausible motive for someone in his job "going out with a bang" - that motive being: life sucks on the ramp. . . . . .


Agreed Paul,

Todd writes SO well that maybe he should pursue it as a new career, given his current job seems to be a bit sucky, by all accounts! :confused:




Yes, that essay was a bit fishy. I wanted to comment myself but I couldn't make up my mind what it was telling me.


If we turn all this around the other way, that is, think black hats instead of white hats, the essays and emails make more sense. The black hats would have more long term sleeper agents too.


Why turn it around to black hats ?


Think missile - Q

[Bill Ryan]

. . . . For someone who is a good writer, with interesting details ... it seems odd that there are no details of Rich Russell in what he wrote. What Todd provides in well written detail is a plausible motive for someone in his job "going out with a bang" - that motive being: life sucks on the ramp. . . . . .


Agreed Paul,

Todd writes SO well that maybe he should pursue it as a new career, given his current job seems to be a bit sucky, by all accounts! :confused:



A note for the record, though it's a very minor one: Todd wrote (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103830-Passenger-plane-stolen-from-SeaTac.-What-are-the-options&p=1242742&viewfull=1#post1242742) that he "was a ground service agent at Horizon Air for the better part of 2016."

That implies that he's no longer with the company, or at least, certainly not in that sucky job any more.

[Satori]

"Todd's" letter is well-written, and I have no doubt that the job sucked. But nothing in the purported letter convinces me in the slightest that RB Russell was capable of flying that airplane.

I think the purpose of the letter was to try to convince as many people as possible that the official explanation of the event is true. And it may be. (I doubt that the purpose was to convince us of the deplorable working conditions described in the letter.) However, I really doubt that plane was piloted (if it was piloted) by a person who did not know how to fly. As as I understand it, Mr. Russel did not know how to fly in real time, and in real life conditions, but at most played some video games or had access to a flight simulator.

This letter falls into what I call the 25/25/50 rule. 25% of the people are going to believe the official explanation no matter what they hear, see or read to the contrary. 25% are not going to believe the official explanation no matter what they hear, see or read in support of it. 50% of the people are on the fence and are undecided. That is the target audience. This letter is directed to that 50% to convince them the official story is true--even though the letter sheds no light on Russells' flying ability, or lack thereof.

In short, 25% don't need to be convinced because the already believe the story. 25% will never be convinced of the story. So, no need to waste one's time on them. It's that 50% that can be and need to be brought around. They are the target group.

This same principle holds true for any major events, such as 9/11.

[Denise/Dizi]

There exists today, a technology that allows for PEOPLE to be droned. Where they can see through the eyes of the person, and guide them to carry out actions so specific that I fully believe this man COULD HAVE flown this plane without ever having climbed into a cockpit before. I got a sample of this technology, and it was shocking. Just the level at which the technology that the military has access to, boggles the mind. I think this was DELIBERATE as a showing of what was to come, should something not be accomplished. A PUBLIC demonstration possibly designed to promote questions about HOW he did it, and WHY.

[Satori]

There exists today, a technology that allows for PEOPLE to be droned. Where they can see through the eyes of the person, and guide them to carry out actions so specific that I fully believe this man COULD HAVE flown this plane without ever having climbed into a cockpit before. I got a sample of this technology, and it was shocking. Just the level at which the technology that the military has access to, boggles the mind. I think this was DELIBERATE as a showing of what was to come, should something not be accomplished. A PUBLIC demonstration possibly designed to promote questions about HOW he did it, and WHY.

If what you say is so (and I am in no way assailing your post), said Richard B. Russell per se, did not fly that plane. Others (terrestrial or otherwise) flew it through him, in a manner of speaking. That, among other things, means others are responsible for the acts and results of that event.

In any event, thank you for your post on this thread.

BTW, I am reading your posts on the other thread, which I believe you started, with great interest. You write very well and you are communicating a very esoteric, incredible and challenging subject in a very understandable way-- for me at least. I cannot claim to have experienced anything near what you write of. So, I'll have to be a passive reader.

[Bill Ryan]

There exists today, a technology that allows for PEOPLE to be droned. Where they can see through the eyes of the person, and guide them to carry out actions so specific that I fully believe this man COULD HAVE flown this plane without ever having climbed into a cockpit before.

Dr Robert Duncan has described technologies that allow a 'psychic' (for lack of a better word) to entrain themselves with a remote target, and, to quote his own given examples, to cause them to do things like fall down the stairs and injure themselves, exhibit outbursts of misemotion, or even maybe be involved in a traffic accident or make similarly dangerous spontaneous bad decisions.

My OWN analogy for that kind of thing is to give someone a sudden sideways push when they're ice skating. It's pretty easy to get another skater to crash!

But you'd not be able to get them to ice skate in the first place. That's a learned skill, not the sabotage of a skill (like walking down the stairs, or driving a car).

So there's a vast gulf of difference between (a) causing someone to trip up while crossing a busy street, and (b) flying a plane — with the spiritual 'owner' of the body that's been commandeered presumably having being removed in some way. I'd very much doubt that any such technology of that nature exists at the moment.

If Richard Russell had in some way been 'taken over', and did the entire thing against his own volition (and there is NO EVIDENCE of that), it seems more likely (or, a little less unlikely! :) ) that he was hypnotically programmed to do this — including the plane flying, as in the kind of instant advanced skill download scripted in the Matrix movies. I could imagine that just might conceivably be possible, but it's still an enormous Sci-Fi level stretch.

[ThePythonicCow]

There exists today, a technology that allows for PEOPLE to be droned.
But can people be droned with rich, detailed, multi-level, nearly instantaneous integration of a variety of sensors in the body, senses, and of muscular and nervous reflexes?

In other words, can I be droned to play basketball like Michael Jordan, at his best? Well, a half foot shorter, hands long but still an inch shorter, jump like a short legged white guy, and fifty pounds less muscle, but otherwise, just like Mike?

Sorry ... I wandered off into one of my life long fantasies ... to be a good basketball player.

But I'd imagine that skilled piloting includes a good bit of "seat of the pants" "muscle memory and reflexes", that are impossible (by any means that I know of) to acquire accept by hundreds or thousands of hours in the seat, or on the court.

... or are there means of which I know not?

P.S. -- I see Bill has posted similar concerns, though better written than mine.

===

My current seat of the pants (*) guess: Rich Russell was not actually in that plane, but rather flying a simulation, in parallel, with his control input being translated to something that would actually work (automated handling of those pesky seat of the pants details.)

Whether this was a white, grey, or black hat operation ... I can only guess and hope.

~~~

(*) written while sitting in my conspiracy theory nutcase chair, where I do have thousands of hours :)

[Michelle Marie]

This plane crash seemed to raise questions about elites and their islands. I also just wondered about what general facts I could learn about the islands. I found the facts around the owner of Ketron Island interesting in the whole scheme of things. Some of these things may be irrelevant; or possibly they may tie into other information or events that unfold in the future. At any rate, I learned a few things and I thought I would share.

************
Islands in Washington State & Celebrity/Elite Islands

McNeil Island
For the most violent Sex Offenders
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=luK-RPedzrE
No tracking after release.
________________
Seatac Plane wreck

Ketron Island
Stolen Plane Flown by Wasilla Hugh Grad Owned by family with ties to the Valley
Former Alaska family--Gary Lundgren--owns 65% of Ketron Island
He owns Alaska Mini Storage and Wasilla Business Plaza

https://www.frontiersman.com/news/stolen-plane-flown-by-wasilla-high-grad-crashed-on-property/article_74188708-9ded-11e8-9d52-f705a560b9da.html

"Lundgren said he was also a licensed twin engine pilot in Alaska for about 20 years and is amazed that Russell was able to get the plane in the air.

'I can't imagine how he was capable of even starting those turbine engines, much less taxing and taking off.'"

"In a press conference Saturday, Alaska Airlines confirmed the incident, but did not name Russell as the pilot of the plane. Alaska Airlines did confirm the death of the pilot, the lone occupant in the plane."
___________________
The FBI is involved in the investigation.
https://www.thenewstribune.com/latest-news/article216505205.html
____________________________
13 Islands to visit
https://www.onlyinyourstate.com/washington/islands-in-wa/

1. Whidbey
2. Vashan
3. Camano
4. Guemes
5. Lummi
6. Orcas
7. Fidalgo
8. San Juan
9. Lopez
10. Blake
11. Anderson
12. Sucia
13. Bainbridge
_______________
Paul Allen
Microsoft Billionaire
Dec 2013
Sells Allan Island $8Million
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2529017/Paul-Allen-finally-sells-292-acre-private-island-market-2005-just-8million.html
_____________
Celebrity Islands
http://most-expensive.com/private-island-celebrities

Abramavich Island
St. Bart's
Dec. 2010 New Year's Eve Party
(((Demi Moore, Ashton Kutcher, P. Diddy, Ellen Degeneres, Fergie)))

Musha Cay & 3 other Islands
rents for $37,500 per day
As private as it gets
Oprah & John Travolta
__________________
Is Oprah Fleeing Fisher Island?
Sells her Fisher Island Home in 2014
https://www.miami.com/miami-news/oprahs-fisher-island-home-sells-again-15620/
https://variety.com/2008/dirt/real-estalker/is-oprah-fleeing-fisher-island-1201228132/

Dec 2013 -- Restored Vanderbilt Mansion on Fisher Island
https://miami.curbed.com/2013/12/16/10163720/exploring-fisher-islands-historic-restored-vanderbilt-mansion

Oprah buys Orca Island Estate
$8.3 Million
June 2018
https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2018/06/05/oprah-buys-orcas-island-estate-for-8-3-million.html
__________________
Saudi Prince visits Boeing, Bill Gates
March 2018
http://mynorthwest.com/942813/saudi-princes-visit-expected-to-impact-traffic-in-puget-sound-region/
____________________

Ketron Island Crash site -- next day (20 sec)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0VYwToJ3YMk
_________________
Lundgren -- owner of the property of the plane crash
March 2016
https://wantedsa.blogspot.com/2016/03/

*. Fraudster~~Trump organization filed case against him
* His securities company in the Republic of Panama was ordered to close
* multiple investigations pending against him
*. His business in Washington State is transferring all its existing clients to a national securities firm
*. Some of his victims allege he is guilty of sexual battery
*. Petaquilla Mine scandal
_______________________


MM :hat:

[Ba-ba-Ra]

MM - good investigating.

So the guy who owns 65% of the island where the plane crashed has or had a case filed against him by the Trump Organization back in March 2016! Just one more of the strange "coincidences" around this incident.


from the link posted by MM above: https://wantedsa.blogspot.com/2016/03/
"The Alaskan fraudster operating in anything-goes Panama Panama, Gary James Lundgren, reeling from the publicity generated by the high-profile case against him, filed by the Trump Organization, has begun closing down his dodgy operations. "

[Michelle Marie]

Well, well..."watch the water"

Whidby & Ketron Island highlighted in yellow.

38840

38841

38842

38843

Navy operations in Hood canal. (Marked in red)

Busy area.

MM

[Bill Ryan]

There have been a number of short videos aired by King 5 (https://www.king5.com/about-us), a Seattle news station. See this page, which contains a short video slideshow of photos. The page also links to other reports, including more drone footage of the area.


https://king5.com/article/news/stolen-plane/new-photos-of-stolen-plane-crash-on-ketron-island/281-586637563 (https://www.king5.com/article/news/stolen-plane/new-photos-of-stolen-plane-crash-on-ketron-island/281-586637563)

Two screenshots of photos taken by a local resident of the fire at the crash site:

http://projectavalon.net/Ketron_Island_fire_1.jpg

http://projectavalon.net/Ketron_Island_fire_2.jpg

[NX.P]

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/seattle/news/press-releases/fbi-completes-investigation-into-august-2018-unauthorized-flight-from-seattle-tacoma-airport

--------------

November 9, 2018
FBI Completes Investigation into August 2018 Unauthorized Flight from Seattle-Tacoma Airport
Evidence Suggests That the Final Descent to the Ground was Intentional

The FBI has completed its investigation of the unauthorized flight of a Horizon Air Q400 aircraft that occurred on Friday, August 10, 2018, from Seattle-Tacoma International Airport in Washington. Evidence collected during the course of the investigation indicates Richard Russell, 28, of Sumner, Washington, piloted the aircraft and that the final descent to the ground was intentional. Extensive investigative activity failed to reveal any additional subject(s) involved in the planning or execution of the unauthorized flight.

Given the death of Russell and his lack of co-conspirators, the FBI will not be pursuing federal charges.

As part of the investigation, the FBI considered information from the National Transportation Safety Board’s review of the aircraft’s flight data recorder (FDR) and cockpit voice recorder (CVR).

The FDR data indicated significant sideslip on the airplane during the final minute of flight, but the airplane appears to have remained in control, and the final descent to the ground appears to have been intentional. If the pilot had wanted to avoid impact with the ground, he had time and energy to pull the column back, raise the nose, and initiate a climb. Instead, the column remained in a position forward of neutral and moved further forward about six seconds prior to the end of the FDR data, known to investigators as corresponding with the aircraft crash on Ketron Island in Pierce County, Washington.

The CVR did not capture any significant sounds beyond the voice communications that Russell conveyed over the cued microphone. These communications have been publicly available on various websites that capture and catalog air traffic recordings. Based on the CVR review, Russell did not make any phone calls while in the cockpit of the aircraft or make any other statements that addressed his motive.

Interviews with work colleagues, friends, and family—and review of text messages exchanged with Russell during the incident—did not identify any information that would suggest the theft of the aircraft was related to wider criminal activity or terrorist ideology. Although investigators received information regarding Russell’s background, possible stressors, and personal life, no element provided a clear motivation for Russell’s actions.

The Pierce County Medical Examiner’s Office identified the human remains found among aircraft materials from the crash site on Ketron Island as belonging to Russell and later provided a post-mortem examination report to the FBI that lists the cause of death as multiple traumatic injuries due to airplane crash and the manner of death as suicide. As part of its analysis, the Medical Examiner’s Office worked with the FBI to review the conversations Russell had with airport traffic control (captured on recordings), flight data, and information received by the FBI through extensive interviews. The Medical Examiner’s Office noted that “there is sufficient evidence to conclude that the death was intentional.”

The FBI investigation found that Russell was a properly credentialed employee of Horizon Air, had access to the exterior and interior of aircraft in the regular course of his duties, and did not appear to have violated any security measures or protocols until the theft of the plane. As part of his responsibilities as a ground crew member, Russell had knowledge regarding the operation of the aircraft’s auxiliary power unit (APU) and familiarity with tow equipment and maneuvering.

The FBI investigation did not reveal that Russell received any formal flight training. However, investigators learned that Russell was familiar with the checklist of actions for starting an airplane. Investigators were also aware of Internet searches Russell performed for flight instructional videos. Investigators did not uncover any conclusive evidence to suggest further, informal flight training.

The events of August 10, 2018, unfolded along this approximate timeline, all in Pacific Daylight Saving Time:

2:36 p.m. – Russell arrives at Port of Seattle-operated employee security checkpoint at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport for his work shift
2:38 p.m. – Russell clears through employee security checkpoint screening, without any anomalies
7:15 p.m. – Russell arrives in a tow vehicle at Cargo 1, at far north end of Sea-Tac airfield
7:19 p.m. – Russell climbs inside Horizon Air Q400 aircraft #N449QX
7:22 p.m. – Russell begins sequence to start aircraft, and propellers start turning
7:27 p.m. – Russell exits plane and uses tow vehicle to turn aircraft nose toward airfield
7:28 p.m. – Russell re-enters the plane
7:32 p.m. – The aircraft pulls away from its parked location
7:33 p.m. – The aircraft takes off from the airport
8:46 p.m. – FDR data shows end of flight, known to investigators as the aircraft crash on Ketron Island in Pierce County, Washington
The FBI investigation was conducted in conjunction with numerous partners, including West Pierce Fire and Rescue, Joint Base Lewis-McChord Fire and Emergency Services, the Gig Harbor Fire Department, the Pierce County Sheriff’s Department, and the Washington State Department of Natural Resources, whose dedicated efforts ensured the safety of investigators at the crash site. Assistance from the NTSB and Alaska Airlines maintenance personnel was instrumental in the collection and processing of evidence, and Pierce County government agencies facilitated recovery and investigative efforts on Ketron Island. Coordination with the Federal Aviation Administration and Port of Seattle enabled investigators to proceed in a thorough and expeditious manner.