Anyone like John Dee? [Archive] - The Project Avalon Community Forum

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leavesoftrees

26th August 2018, 23:57

Valerie Villars

27th August 2018, 00:21

I'm on the fence about Dee and will certainly have a listen.

shaberon

27th August 2018, 00:56

Sure, he was an interesting perhaps pivotal figure who conjured the "Enochian Keys" which were later re-written by Anton La Vey, mostly substituting "flesh" where Dee had "most high god".

In his time there was no difference between Natural Philosophy and Science, which continued through at least Isaac Newton, who was an alchemist. We tend to have a distorted view since calculus was carefully peeled away from everything else he did.

But with Dee, yes, the era in which England gained the upper hand over Spain, which largely fixed the playing board from then until now.

norman

27th August 2018, 04:49

Jason Louv, has written an book on John Dee called "John Dee and the Empire of Angels".

Here is an excellent interview where he discusses the Elizabethan World, Hermetics, how Dee influenced the rise of the English and American empires, and much more

https://www.occulturepodcast.com/archive/john-dee-empire-angels-jason-louv

That link took me to a page that offered nothing but a paywall.

I found this Higherside Chats interview with Jason Louv instead. I haven't listened to it yet.

BuscLs5WmmQ

Alright Higherside Chatters, the further down we go, the more convinced I am that magic remains the missing spoke in the wheel of not only history, but life itself. Because you can’t properly assess the Elizabethan Era, the Founding of America, the Rocketry program, the tech revolution, or many of the other aspects of what got us here today – without understanding that magic played a major roll. Not to mention the important roll of magic in the East, and well as the cultures that weren’t trampled by the Cross. Because we still see magical thinking and believe systems in the most hard to reach corners of this island Earth.

All of this speaks of a body of knowledge and thought that I’d like to better understand- as well as the people who explored it to it’s deepest, sometimes darkest, depths. Of these figures, there are few, if any, that have been more impactful than Queen Elizabeth I’s court adviser and astrologer – John Dee; as most of the magical characters and secret orders we know today- have all been heavily influenced by the Enochian system that Dee and Ed Kelley were handed down from on High.

Luckily today’s guest Jason Louv knows quite a bit about the situation as he’s just released a massive book entitled John Dee and the Empire of Angels: Enochain Magic and the Occult Roots of the Modern World which clocks in at just over 500 pages when it’s all said and done. It’s a wonder Jason hasn’t been here before, as he definitely been a popular guy in the magical resurgence for quite some time- having written several other books with titles like: Generation Hex, Hyperworlds, Underworlds, and Monsanto vs. the World.

He also runs the popular website Ultraculture.org and also teaches classes on magic and spirituality at Magick.me A modern magus of the Great Work, an esoteric adventurer extraordinaire’, and the glass pyramid of podcast guests – Jason Louv

Cardillac

27th August 2018, 20:59

haven't read book but if my gleaned sources are correct John Dee was definitely an insider in the very least due to insider knowledge of alchemy and astrology-

not to mention history-

Dee supposedly had an obsidian stone which he believed came from N. America thanks to the so-called legend of Prince Madoc of Wales (ca. 350 A.D: if sources are correct); according to former accounts (no, not conventional history) Madoc, due to strife in Wales at the time, sailed with a fleet of ships to N. America, let people off, sailed back to Wales, took on more passengers then sailed back to N. America- permanently-

long story short: once the Mandan tribe in N. Dakota was officially discovered by the Lewis & Clark expedition they discovered their language bore many similarities to...

Welsh-

if one is interessted in this topic do read book "The Suppressed History of Amerca" by Paul Schrag/Xaviant Haze dealing with the mysterious discoveries of the Lewis & Clark expedition- foreward to book is by Michael Tsarion-

Larry

Foxie Loxie

27th August 2018, 21:22

Interesting, Norman, I can get it here. Will listen to the one you posted as well!

Thanks, leavesoftree! A most interesting subject.....to say the least! :highfive:

shaberon

29th August 2018, 01:14

Natural Philosophy was the commonly-accepted term for what we would call magic. There were no old scientists who were not Natural Philosophers, even Newton was one.

This started to change when Newton's calculus was lifted from his other work and used to fight the ideas of Leibiniz and later to quash the full set of Maxwell's Quarternion equations which are here on Avalon. Far from, say, only Tesla's stuff being hidden or stolen or whatever, this whole ploy reaches into around the 1600s when they invented "dead science", or the school that says matter is not alive and consciousness is a strange random chemical equation.

Dee's Enoch is from the biblical apocrypha--again, just a little clue that people of that era killed and packaged the knowledge of their time in a dim, limited view. Really, the same hand, that of Aristotle, started the Dark Age and then in the industrial revolution, started this Scientific Dark Age about dead matter. So then it portrays existence as being made of an all-powerful god "somewhere" and random dead matter that you can see, whereas, this is the antithesis of the magical view of Pan or Levi's Baphomet which says that nature is all there is, it is alive, and there is no god separate or apart from it, or "ruling over" something he is not connected to. This is why magic is totally against churches and dead science--Natural Philosophy.

ichingcarpenter

29th August 2018, 14:39

John Dee: Scholar Courtier Magician - Video tour and interview by Gordon White of Rune Soup

''I was lucky enough to be shown around the Royal College of Physicians' John Dee exhibit in mid-January 2016.''

Zu2D4vpTkv8

The mystical objects of John Dee at the exhibition

https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/sites/default/files/styles/content-image/public/media/Images/Claude%20Lorrain%20mirror%20in%20shark%20skin%20case%20-%20Science%20Museum%2C%20London%2C%20Wellcome%20Images_0.jpg?itok=-12WAhYE&c=7e6f6a950ea88cdff51ba3761c7bf774

John Dee's scrying mirror

Scrying is one of the best known forms of divination, and can be done in a variety of ways. Basically, it's the practice of looking into some sort of reflective surface—such as water, fire, glass, dark stones, etc.—to see what messages, symbols, or visions may appear.

The Claude glass, a device consisting of a black glass mirror stored in a sharkskin case, is thought to have once belonged to John Dee. A Claude glass was normally used by artists, travelers and connoisseurs of landscape. It is named after the artist Claude Lorrain (1600–1682), a 17th Century landscape painter whose name is synonymous with the artistic movement. It is believed that Dee used his Claude glass as a crystal ball to look into the future

https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/sites/default/files/styles/content-image/public/media/Images/John%20Dee%27s%20crystal%20%28blue%20background%29%20-%20Science%20Museum%2C%20London%2C%20Wellcome%20Images_0.jpg?itok=nxjkdVa_&c=306bdc4d913bc75a24c13347a7d4c394

John Dee’s crystal is a clear cut purple crystal attached to a chain and ring. Dee claimed that the crystal was given to him by angel Uriel in 1582 who instructed him and his assistant Edward Kelley (1555–1597/8) on how to make the philosophers stone, every alchemist’s ultimate goal. He believed that he had an ability to contact angels and spirits and claimed that angels had dictated several books to him. This crystal was passed down to Dee’s son, Arthur Dee (1597–1651), who gave it to Nicholas Culpeper (1616–1654) as a reward for curing his liver illness. Culpeper was a physician and an alchemist who used it to cure illnesses until 1651, when he claimed a demonic ghost emerged from it

https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/news/mystical-objects-john-dee

Valerie Villars

29th August 2018, 15:03

http://www.unimedliving.com/ageless-wisdom/the-lineage/john-dee.html

Dee taught that there is a rich lineage of wisdom and sages that stretches right the way back through the annals of time, and of which Christianity is but a chapter. He knew about Hermes and the Egyptian magicians, about the Persians and their Magi; he revered Plato and his system of Platonic philosophy, the Neo-Platonists of Alexandria, and the great wisdom of the Arab world, which had continued Plato’s legacy and identified it as in line with their own sacred traditions; he also knew about the great English philosopher and scientist Roger Bacon.

Upon reading Dee’s works, one thing becomes very clear: Dee drew no distinctions between his mathematical and scientific work, and the great body of wisdom and philosophy of which he was an adept. For Dee they were one and the same, and they fitted within an all-encompassing understanding of the Universe. Dee was a true Pythagorean and he had an innate understanding of Esoteric Numerology. He knew that numbers are the building blocks of the Universe, and that they are also Divine; and that therefore a mathematical understanding of the Universe can reveal to us much about life, and about Man and his place in the Universe. Dee was also aware of Copernicus’ teachings on the heliocentric theory, a model to which he subscribed.

"Numbering, then, was his creating of all things. And his continual numbering of all things is the conservation of them in being… The constant law of numbers… is planted in things natural and supernatural and is prescribed to all creatures, inviolably to be kept."
John Dee[1]
During his time in England, Dee was offered a post at Oxford University as Professor of Mathematics. But he declined, as he knew that the university environment would be restricting and would not allow him the space and freedom to follow his innate convictions through to their conclusions, and to teach Mathematics in its truth, as he understood it.

However, he was equally becoming frustrated with peoples’ misunderstanding of him, and their hurling slanderous accusations at him: and of the Queen’s non-commitment and continual offerings of positions, titles and financial rewards to him, which she never followed through on. Dee felt he was not valued in his own country.

In 1583, Dee packed up a large proportion of his books and collection of scientific and mathematical instruments and with his family, set sail for the continent, in what would become a six-year journey throughout Europe. Dee was welcomed by kings, princes and noblemen across Europe, where he took up temporary residence at their courts. There he taught the Ageless Wisdom to the aristocracy of Europe, and taught to anybody who was willing to listen the Divine potential in man, and the use of Alchemy to transmute Man back into his true, Divine state.

He tapped into and taught about a system that was to aid Man in his journey back to Soul – a Science we know today as the Science of Initiation.

Along his travels, Dee was offered many permanent positions in courts across Europe, as he had been during his previous travels across Europe as a young man. These included at the courts of King Henry II of France, a succession of four Holy Roman Emperors, and an incredibly lucrative position at the court of Feodor I, the Czar of Russia. But Dee turned them all down, as he knew they were not in-line with his true purpose, and when the time came he moved on to his next destination, carrying on the work that was so important to him.

He inevitably attracted the attention of the Catholic Church. Whilst in Prague, he had an audience at the court of the Holy Roman Emperor, Rudolph II. Dee told Rudolph that he was possessed by an evil spirit, and encouraged him to renounce the error of his ways, and embrace the one, true Religious way. Needless to say, Dee was promptly ejected from the Emperor’s court. After this, Pope Sixtus V sent a papal nuncio to meet with Dee: Dee was forthright with the nuncio about his teachings and about the work he was doing, and whilst the nuncio was polite and seemingly accepting of Dee in his presence, on his return to Rome he denounced him as a heretic to the Pope. Dee gained word of his unwelcome reception in Rome, and subsequently amended his journey to avoid Italy. If he had come anywhere close to Rome, it is likely he would have been denounced by the Inquisition and sentenced to death.

Dee grew weary on his travels, frustrated that the world was not ‘getting’ what he had to teach, nor embracing the one, true philosophy of the ages; and his return to England gave him more cause for grief. Upon returning to his home in Mortlake, Dee found his library had been ransacked and many of his books and scientific and mathematical instruments had been stolen. Added to this, he returned to an England that had been turned against him by the Church, hostile towards him and suspicious of his esoteric activities.

The ignorance of the many was fed by the jealousy of the few, and behind this was the controlling intent of the church, which did not want the world to know what Dee had to teach it.

Elizabeth also had distanced herself from Dee in the intervening years; she had her own reputation to protect, and she effectively abandoned him to the onslaught of the accusations and slanders that haunted Dee.*The lies that emerged around Dee were based on the accusation that he was a ‘black magician’ – a sorcerer who was in league with the Devil and evil spirits. This was a common stereotype of the Elizabethan imagination – an image fed to the masses to stir up fear and trepidation. It was of course an absolute lie and the very, calculated opposite of the Truth that Dee stood for and represented. It is around this time that Christopher Marlowe staged his play Doctor Faustus, about the dangers and moral transgressions of the man who supersedes his station in life to dabble in black magic, eventually making a pact with the Devil. The implied, defamatory reference to Dee was clear to see. A few decades later, shortly after Dee had died, Ben Jonson wrote and staged The Alchemist, which pokes fun at the figure of the Renaissance magus, who is represented as a ‘quack’ that cheats unknowing people out of their money. In the play, Dee is directly named, and his Monas Hierogliphica held up for ridicule. Shakespeare wrote and staged The Tempest – a play whose main character, Prospero, is long thought to have been inspired by Dee – shortly after this, and it can be seen in part as a response to Jonson and Marlowe, and a restoring of Dee’s name and reputation in the popular imagination.

In 1595, the Queen eventually granted Dee a position as Warden of Christ College in Manchester – a position that he held for the next ten years.

In 1604, when Elizabeth died and James I took the throne, Dee petitioned the new King to put him on trial for the slanderous accusations thrown about by his detractors, so that he could be found to be innocent of any association with ‘black magic’, and his name to be cleared. This request in itself was a bold move: James I was renowned for his deep-seated anxiety about witchcraft, and if he had been in any way suspicious of Dee, this would have been his death wish. But Dee’s request was refused, he was denied a trial, and the slanderous accusations continued.

In 1605, Dee returned to Mortlake where he spent the remaining years of his life living in poverty and public disgrace. All of his eight children, but two, had died during childhood, and with his wife gone, he had only his daughter Katherine to nurse him in his old age. His remaining son, Arthur, would become an alchemist, and go on to take up a position in the court of the Tsar of Russia – a position which Dee himself had declined – as personal physician to Michael I. In these final years, financial pressures forced Dee to sell off what remained of his once-great library.

Over his lifetime, Dee took his public detractors and their slanderous accusations very personally, and they broke him.

He had transfixed all his energies on the realisation of an image – the hailing of a new world order, guided by the one true, Hermetic philosophy – and it crushed him to see that the world was turning its back on this and instead delving deeper into a controlled form of education and closed-mindedness to the universal nature of life and all things.

Dee worked tirelessly throughout his life, in service to people and the fulfilment of God’s plan on Earth; but ultimately he lacked the self-appreciation and the Stillness within himself to understand that people’s actions and reactions were not a reflection on him or any failing on his part, but rather were an expression of their own Free Will. Dee was caught by his desire for people to be free and know the greater wisdoms that he knew, rather than truly valuing his efforts for presenting them, and allowing people the Grace of their own Free Will to come to know it in their own time.

In the above context, I rather like him.

Foxie Loxie

29th August 2018, 21:18

norman

29th August 2018, 21:35

Valerie Villars

29th August 2018, 21:45

Norman, I have read about Dee from time to time and have many books on Queen Elizabeth, in which he is discussed. I always kind of thought he was a cool guy, until I went through the targeting and began to realize that magic was real and could be dangerous in the wrong hands.

I have never heard what you stated above about him, though. I'd have to look into it more.

So, then I read some more about him and got a little spooked when I read about him and Kelley conjuring up angels with rituals. I just don't think anyone should be "conjuring" anything.

However, like Foxie, I read the above and thought, well who knows? Based on the above, he seems to have had a genuine interest in helping.

Perhaps it's like my great-grandfather the hypnotist. He thought he was doing good but maybe didn't entirely understand that sort of knowledge could be used for nefarious purposes.

Dee is certainly interesting. All those Elizabethan characters are. Sir Francis Bacon, et al.

Foxie Loxie

29th August 2018, 22:34

Norman....for me this isn't about admiring anybody, I was just shocked that the same "angel" has still been influencing world politics today!(NWO) ;)

It seems to be the same story over & over & over here on this planet! It was interesting to see how Jason Louv came to the same conclusions, after his years of study, that I have come to after being exposed to all the ideas here on Avalon.

The future is not written in stone, we humans have Free Will to help write our own future! Louv is very correct in his assessment about the Bible Belt mentality of Christian evangelicals; by their gloom & doom Book of Revelation belief, they are intending for that to happen. I can speak about all this because that is what I came out of! :ROFL:

Many books about Revelation have been written with differing views. I have listened to preachers arguing about how "the events" will play out! :argue: My personal opinion.....Christianity is one of the most clever hoaxes played upon humanity as a means of keeping them enslaved without knowing it!! I do not mean to be offensive to any belief system from which others derive comfort.

I keep telling my own children that! :bigsmile: They all think their poor Mother has really gone off the tracks & are praying she will return to the Truth. The brainwashing I gave them really took!

norman

29th August 2018, 23:28

The brainwashing I gave them really took!

:rap::flock::first::doh::tinfoil3::haha::pleasantry::boom:

ichingcarpenter

29th August 2018, 23:49

my library
Shakespeare play 'the tempest' the main character in the play, Prospero, was inspired by John Dee... BTW one of favorite plays

Prospero is the rightful Duke of Milan, but has been deposed by his brother Antonio. He has taken refuge on a remote island, where he has remained for 12 years prior to the beginning of the play. Books, it emerges, have played a significant part in his downfall. As Duke of Milan, Prospero explains, he became ‘rapt in secret studies’ and allowed his deceitful brother to achieve undue power and influence.

The play begins when a ship containing Antonio and his entourage sails close to Prospero’s island. Prospero uses his powers of magic and illusion to shipwreck the vessel, punish his adversaries, and regain his dukedom. He achieves this by means of a familiar spirit, called Ariel, who performs magical acts according to Prospero’s instructions.

Like the fictional wizard, Dee immersed himself in a vast library, suffered a grave misfortune (in Dee’s case, theft of his books rather than exile) and believed that he could summon spirits.

In reading The tempest, it’s easy to draw a connection between the character of Prospero and the historical figure of Dee. In act I, scene ii, Prospero states that he cared about his library above all else:

Was dukedom large enough.

He describes how, following his exile, his servant Gonzalo had come to his aid:

Knowing I loved my books, he furnish'd me

From mine own library with volumes that

I prize above my dukedom.

Dee was the epitome of a Renaissance polymath, someone interested in and expert in almost every branch of knowledge. Dee’s studies included mathematics, astrology, astronomy, alchemy, history, theology, philosophy, cryptography and magic. He was also an extraordinary book collector, amassing as many as 3,000 printed books and 1,000 manuscripts in his home at Mortlake, on the river Thames, near London.

John Dee cared deeply about his own library, even suggesting to Mary I in 1556 that his collection might form the base of a new national library. His was deeply upset after his library was ransacked, and many books stolen, during the 1580s.

In The tempest (III:ii), Caliban notes that Prospero’s library is the source of his power:

Remember

First to possess his books; for without them

He's but a sot, as I am, nor hath not

One spirit to command.

https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/news/rapt-secret-studies-was-shakespeare-s-prospero-inspired-john-dee

Valerie Villars

30th August 2018, 00:48

shaberon

30th August 2018, 04:34

Although it came along a little later than his prime of life, I've assumed he was the brains or at least the godfather of the origin of the raw basic model that is still used today by the intelligence network through from the East India Company, British SS and American core agencies. The model is well described by Catherin Fitts. To control the lowest common factors and get all the dirt on eveybody through it. That's drugs and vice etc. Catherine expands on that and talks about the economic takeover aspect of it. Spies, drug runners and bankers, hah . . . they've always been soul mates.

Well, point is, I thought it all came from John Dee. Am I wrong about that ?

I would say it came from the Netherlands. Before England's rise, the Dutch Empire and Dutch East India Company (origin of the stock market) were the wealthiest organizations to be found. Basis of the Bank of England shortly thereafter.

British hegemony may have been more inspired by people such as the West Country men (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Country_men) including Francis Drake, whose capture of a Spanish treasure train in Panama was a major turning point.

The British Parliament as a whole was always against fighting contraband, slavery, etc., since most of its members were involved in those kinds of things.

Dee, or, more particularly, Kelley's, scrying, is not necessarily the most accurate or final word on things; but we may note in dealing with Uriel, Michael, etc., these are the Elohim, really the sacred planets, something stolen, misappropriated, and re-written by monotheists.

Alchemists generally were in the unfortunate position of needing to sell Philosopher's Stone "turns lead to gold" for kings, which is not the real one, which is the marriage of earthly and heavenly essences. It is very tricky because their language is a veil over another veil, but even Shakespeare understood things like "eye of newt" = mustard seed. In those times, most any "alternative" teaching had to be concealed anonymously, or written with Christian tones, since people loved burning books and other people. Nobody could come out and say: "Christianity is one of the most clever hoaxes played upon humanity as a means of keeping them enslaved without knowing it!!"

News traveled slow, and folks were not immediately aware of what "Saint" Cyril did to Hypatia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypatia) and Nestorius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestorius), but he pretty much launched your Dark Age there. It had been waiting in the wings for a while, but this was a really big bite.

Not sure I would encourage anyone to scry, conjure, channel, etc., the Elohim; instead, we would place you face to face with them in personal experience. If Europe even has a manuscript on this, it is buried in the Vatican. If Dee could do it, he would not have needed forced, mechanical methods. Enoch--Idris did it the pure way and was the inspiration to Moses and the Jubilees, which, a Jubilee is supposed to be part and parcel of Christianity as well as the U. S. country, but everyone would just tell you it's a thing of the past now, apocryphal, non-canonical...just stuff Enoch in a closet and let's beatify Cyril.

So for Dee to even attempt a sort of understudy of Enoch and the Elohim, to the extent he could, was exceptionally radical. If Hermetics had actually taken hold then, it would have been a much different "world order" than the English--Catholic shenanigans which had Europe locked down and colonized everywhere else.

If I could find, for instance, the War of 1812 as somehow ordered or dictated by Mr. Dee, that would be one thing, but it appears to be British reprisal for the U. S. refusing to renew a national bank charter. I don't think such a thing is really within the grasp of Hermetics, even though what we have today is a tiny fragment of about 36,000 Books of Hermes that were used in Egypt, these have been removed for safe keeping.

Deux Corbeaux

30th August 2018, 11:48

iching, I am stunned. What a beautiful synopsis. I did not know, though I knew somewhere of the connection of "The Tempest". And the rest of "that" crew.

I feel like I need to read that, but with some guidance from someone coming from a place of REAL knowledge.

http://www.sparknotes.com/shakespeare/tempest/context/historical/who-was-prospero/

Who Was Prospero?

Prospero, who abandons the world of fantasy to rejoin civilization, is one of Shakespeare’s most intriguing characters, and critics are divided over whether Prospero is based on a real person. Some critics have speculated that Shakespeare modeled Prospero on John Dee, a famous Englishman who had devoted himself to alchemy and occult philosophy, and who served as an advisor to Queen Elizabeth. Like Prospero, Dee valued his library above almost everything else, and hoped to use it to form a new national library. In the 1580s many of Dee’s books were stolen, just as Caliban suggests stealing Prospero’s books, in order to reduce his power: “Remember / First to possess his books; for without them / He’s but a sot…” (III.ii.) Also like Prospero, Dee believed he could communicate with the spirit world. He recorded his “angelic conversations,” and believed he received mysteries of the universe from the spirit world.

Another possible model for Prospero is Rudolf II, a Holy Roman Emperor who had a reputation for neglecting his duties to pursue his studies of the occult. Also, similar to Prospero (and John Dee), Rudolf was devoted to his library, which his family felt added to his inability to effectively govern. In The Tempest, Prospero admits that he neglected his duties as duke in favor of his books: “I, thus neglecting worldly ends, all dedicated / To closeness and the bettering of my mind” (I.ii). At the of the 1610s, after a long and indecisive war with the Ottoman Empire, Rudolf’s brother Matthias conspired against him, and by 1611 Matthias had assumed all of Rudolf’s power. These events are echoed in Prospero’s backstory of betrayal by his brother, Antonio, who attempts to assassinate him and take over his rule of Milan. Like Prospero, Rudolf II was a ruler whose interest in the occult and matters of the mind made him vulnerable to betrayal by his family.

The third model for Prospero may be much closer to home than Rudolf II or John Dee: Shakespeare himself. The Tempest marks the last play that Shakespeare wrote by himself, and as such, represents a sort of farewell to his audience. Just as Prospero puts aside magic in the final scenes of the play and prepares for a peaceful retirement, so Shakespeare may have used the play as a way to say goodbye to the theater. The play contains many allusions to theatricality, such as when Prospero says: “Our revels are now ended. These our actors / As I foretold you, were all spirits and / Are melted into air, into thin air” (IV.i.) In this speech, Prospero is basically saying the show is over. He also references “the great globe itself,” possibly a nod to the Globe Theatre, where Shakespeare’s plays were performed. In the play’s epilogue, Prospero references his decision to surrender his power, saying, “Now my charms are all o’erthrown…” He begs the audience to release him from captivity on the island by clapping, much as an audience’s applause signals the end of the play. In this sense, Shakespeare may be pleading with his own audience to let him retire peacefully, asking them to “let your indulgence set me free.”

Tintin

30th August 2018, 12:46

Tintin

30th August 2018, 13:01

Thanks for that, Val! :highfive: Kind of fills in more pieces!

I have spent the day with John Dee & it is a shame he was written out of history; kind if like Annie Besant was also written out.

The jaw dropper for me was how he was given a NWO plan by the "angel" Michael, who also gave him the phrase "British Empire"! HUH?!

These people in this day & age who have been trying to bring in a NWO must be under the influence of the same "angel"! Does nothing ever change?!!!! :ROFL:

The British Empire came into existence, but Dee never got the credit for the originating idea! Whoever ruled the seas in those days, ruled the world. Now....it's whoever rules the "seas" of space....so I'm thinking the U.S. might still be ahead in that area because of the SSP.
I guess we will find out, won't we?! :sun:

Do I hear voices admiring the guy then ?

I will have to dig back into him and expand my grasp of what he was all about.

Although it came along a little later than his prime of life, I've assumed he was the brains or at least the godfather of the origin of the raw basic model that is still used today by the intelligence network through from the East India Company, British SS and American core agencies. The model is well described by Catherin Fitts. To control the lowest common factors and get all the dirt on eveybody through it. That's drugs and vice etc. Catherine expands on that and talks about the economic takeover aspect of it. Spies, drug runners and bankers, hah . . . they've always been soul mates.

Well, point is, I thought it all came from John Dee. Am I wrong about that ?

Yes, he has, with much evidence to support it, been accredited with the model for the modern SIS/intelligence services, so, you aren't wrong necessarily at all Norman. (Note to self: I'll need to resource from my archives of texts some reference material here.)

John Hughes Wilson (https://johnhugheswilson.co.uk/books/non-fiction/the-puppet-masters/)'s book: "The Puppet Masters" does delve back a lot further into the history of intelligence - a particularly interesting piece in that book covers Crassus (I think 2nd or 3rd century Roman) and his 'fire brigades'.

JHW has mentored my brother who's in the UK military, in intelligence, and also went to school with my father although I am not certain that they were properly acquainted but in the same year.

He's an interesting character himself.

norman

30th August 2018, 14:15

John Hughes Wilson (https://johnhugheswilson.co.uk/books/non-fiction/the-puppet-masters/)'s book: "The Puppet Masters" does delve back a lot further into the history of intelligence - a particularly interesting piece in that book covers Crassus (I think 2nd or 3rd century Roman) and his 'fire brigades'.

JHW has mentored my brother who's in the UK military, in intelligence, and also went to school with my father although I am not certain that they were properly acquainted but in the same year.

He's an interesting character himself.

I've just ordered a used copy of the puppet masters book from amazon. Reading it will be a chore though. I much prefer a few audio interviews with the authors of books than actually reading them. My natural inclination is to skim and amalgamate broadly.

Valerie Villars

30th August 2018, 14:18

Foxie Loxie

30th August 2018, 14:53

Thanks, everyone! :highfive: This has all been MOST interesting!

One thing that Jason Louv points out that seems quite true down through the ages is that "the spirit world is as chaotic as the human world".

Apparently, various 'beings' have always been trying to influence mankind for various purposes. What blew my mind was the exact same phrase was given to John Dee by "Michael"....a New World Order! Where have we heard that before?!! :faint:

Looks like I am going to be burned at the stake for the conclusions I have come to! :ROFL: Who will throw the first ember? :sun:

So.....if an "angel" should appear to you, I guess the lesson is, don't get up tight about it! Stand in your own sovereignty & don't assume they know more than you do. Just assume they have an agenda of their own, which might not be in your own best interest! A few names come to mind....Enoch, Abraham, Moses, Joseph Smith, & the big 'M'.

Enough of this Slavery.....Break out of the chains! :ballchain:

Tintin

30th August 2018, 22:36

From what I have read, Sir Francis Walsingham was the one who was the master at intelligence gathering for Queen Elizabeth, using the same methods being used today by _intelligence agencies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Walsingham

I ordered the book, "John Dee and the Empire of Angels" by Jason Louv, who is featured in Norman's post above. I'm beginning to suspect there is more in that period of history than meets the glass darkly eye.

There is a confusing mass of impressions I gleaned from that era and those characters. Important impressions.

Walsingham was probably the equivalent of, let's say Director of Said Intelligence agency, not necessarily the founder of it. On the payroll, and, doing his job.

Propaganda being what it has always been, well, it would certainly be convenient to deflect 'source' away from actual source.

'Intelligence' has been - and is still - oxymoronic in its interpretation. (*winks gently*)

leavesoftrees

31st August 2018, 06:30

Edward Kelley was Dee’s s scryer. Here’s an interview talking about their work together

.
http://occultofpersonality.net/vincent-bridges/

Vincent Bridges
by Greg Kaminsky on June 13, 2014

Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Vincent Bridges (1952 – 2014), expert on Sir Edward Kelley and co-author of The Ophanic Revelation: Angelic Science and the End of Time – a unique book about Enochian Magick, is our guest in podcast episode 145.

Vincent Bridges

Author, esoteric historian, and researcher Vincent Bridges is the co-author of six books, and has been involved with several television documentaries on subjects ranging from Atlantis to the Holy Grail but primarily focused on Nostradamus. A self-proclaimed “anthropologist of the strange,” Bridges is an initiate of five major traditions: Buddhism, Islam, Gnostic Christianity, Wicca and Western Ceremonial Magick. He is also a pioneer in the field of psycho-acoustic therapy for early childhood trauma, was the first geomancer listed in Who’s Who in Service to the Earth, and was instrumental in the creation of three schools or educational organizations, The Fifth Way Mystnery School, The Newport Earth Institute in Newport, New Hampshire and Pendragon College. Bridges also organizes and leads tours to sacred sites in Southern France and the Czech Republic, and has led tours in the past to India, Tibet and Egypt. He currently lives in Prague, where he is also a consultant to an alchemical museum.

Edward Kelley

We begin the interview by reviewing the life and times of Sir Edward Kelley, including his alchemical activities. Bridges is endeavoring to write Kelley’s biography and resides in Kelley’s last known residence in Prague. Through his efforts, he just might rehabilitate Kelley’s reputation in the eyes of those who view him in only a negative light.

Charles River Bridge in Prague

Of course, we delve into Kelley’s work with John Dee and his visionary experiences. Bridges discusses The Ophanic Revelation, which may be the most unique book on the subject of Enochian that I’ve ever encountered.

“Four hundred years ago, higher intelligence in the form of angels communicated a geometrical, symmetry-based, DNA-coded language pattern capable of producing a rapid expansion of consciousness and an increase in symbolic cognition. This shift in awareness – from a local primate-based consciousness to a much larger, universal, non-local reality – is based on what we now call plasma physics. The angels gifted us with this most unusual language system as a kind of life raft/survival radio set as they knew mankind would need a shift in consciousness to survive the precessionally timed apocalyptic season that now threatens to close in upon us. This book represents the first serious attempt to examine the angelic, or Ophanic, system given to Dr. John Dee from multiple viewpoints, using history, physics, biology, mathematics as well as art and sacred geometry to explore the unexpected depths of meaning and interconnection in this unique communication.”

Vincent Bridges

Although Bridges’ perspective is multidisciplinary and may be somewhat speculative, he has led a working group through the entire Enochian system over the course of two years with rather remarkable results. While certainly not a traditional viewpoint, Bridges’ conclusions seem to provide modern relevance that may have been previously unrecognized.

Edward Kelley

Whatever you may think of Bridges’ conclusions, which I perceive as being controversial, there is no doubt that a great deal of research went into his book. I found The Ophanic Revelation intriguing, and the sense of mystery and immediacy that it conveyed to be remarkable. I’d encourage those interested in learning more about this work to read some of the articles linked below from the Journal of the Western Mystery Tradition.

Vincent Bridges passed unexpectedly less than a month after this interview was posted online. We extend our deepest sympathies to Vincent’s family and friends all over the world. He will be sorely missed, but not forgotten. His work and legacy lives on…

Vincent Bridges

In Memoriam: Vincent Bridges

The Ophanic Revelation: Angelic Science and the End of Time by Vincent Bridges and DARLENE

“Edward Kelley” Wikipedia entry

“Reading the Green Language of Light” by Vincent Bridges

“The Little Book of Black Venus and the Three-Fold Transformation of Hermetic Astrology” by Teresa Burns

“Appendix II: Notes to Dee’s Monas Hieroglyphica” by Vincent Bridges

“The Little Book of Black Venus attributed to John Dee” translated by Teresa Burns and Nancy Turner

“The Little Book of Black Venus – Part Two: Olympic Spirits, the Cult of the Dark Goddess, and the Seal of Ameth” by Vincent Bridges and Teresa Burns

“Angels in the DNA: The Emerald Modem and Dr. Dee’s Ophanic Language” by Vincent Bridges

“The Ophanic Alphabet (Part Two): A Search For Meaning” by DARLENE

“A Golden Storm: Attempting to Recreate the Context of John Dee and Edward Kelley’s Angelic Material” by Teresa Burns

The Mysteries of the Great Cross of Hendaye: Alchemy and the End of Time By Jay Weidner and Vincent Bridges

Arguing with Angels: Enochian Magic and Modern Occulture by Egil Asprem

shaberon

31st August 2018, 07:15

Apparently, various 'beings' have always been trying to influence mankind for various purposes. What blew my mind was the exact same phrase was given to John Dee by "Michael"....a New World Order! Where have we heard that before?!! :faint:

Looks like I am going to be burned at the stake for the conclusions I have come to! :ROFL: Who will throw the first ember? :sun:

So.....if an "angel" should appear to you, I guess the lesson is, don't get up tight about it! Stand in your own sovereignty & don't assume they know more than you do. Just assume they have an agenda of their own, which might not be in your own best interest! A few names come to mind....Enoch, Abraham, Moses, Joseph Smith, & the big 'M'.

Tossing embers is great. It's called shampooing. I'll just leave that there for the sake of confusion.

What was the Old World Order? The pope, the Holy Roman Empire? Spanish one?

We're talking about countries that were mostly covered in raw sewage until they learned otherwise from the Moorish occupation.

After Moses, the problem really hits. Enoch could be considered a teacher, or, generally, the educated or initiated class, a Jewish term roughly equivalent to Idris, Orpheus, Thoth, Mercury, Hermes, or Zoroaster. Moses ("child"--i. e. child of the lineage), being similarly taught, however: his literature, or the Genesis, etc., passed from him, itself was severally redacted, or had parts taken out, others installed, a few times, until the last major redaction of Ezra--Second Temple period. The tribe, or tribes, associated with this, going through the same kind of mixed breeding, and destruction, until this Second Temple becoming a vehicle for Pharisees, meaning mostly non-Jewish Edomites, who had been allowed into Judea. You can look into it, but, by being over-run and inter-bred with Edom, according to their own ritual standards, that Judea and/or it's "pure" lineage, ceased to exist.

So from Ezra, you get an Edomite Pharisee book that no longer contains the accurate legend of Moses, held by people who have no legitimate claim to the lineage. This would be Old Testament. And even that version wasn't really crystallized until the Masoretic version ca. year 600, which supplies vowels to the words.

Enoch was the 7th Patriarch, who lived the unusual 365 years. Already, it is the same as Seven Elohim/Days of the Week (and year)...I mean, if anyone is perplexed about these guys they are the same in Latin or Germanic languages, for example Mercredi--Mercury's Day is Wednesday--Odin's Day, same thing, different language. The days of the week that we still use in all similar cultures are nothing but the Elohim, which, if you know how to count them properly, that gives us the order of the days.

Although scripture is the ultimate muddle, Time is completely clear that it is organized by angels as governors of its various cycles. Unfortunately, from various mish-mashes of Enoch and Mani, the Fallen Angels have been altered from a basic natural fact into something "big and scary". One of the worst, vicious twists applied to the ancient literature, resulting in Armageddonism. The basis of mind or thought control is largely found here--maybe not really the basis, but the social engineering application of it.

Micha-el, Uri-el, all those kinds of names refer to El, Elion, Sun. Pluralized--the Sun divided out into seven rays, the seven days--Elohim may perhaps be using the feminine equivalent, Eloah, with a masculine ending, -im, Alhim or aleph, lamed, heh, yod, mim: Alh + im from Hebrew. Therefor the "We" of Genesis is androgynous.

Abraham, the First Patriarch, is Saturn, Father of the "gods".

Joseph Smith doesn't really enter the list, as he refers to no part of nature such as the sun or time, but, instead, to some sad artificial final days thing--or is he the one that says dead people will climb out of their coffins--thanks to digging up the lost Gospel of New York.

Foxie Loxie

31st August 2018, 12:53

Thank you, shaberon! In my simple way, I was referring to the fact that each of the ones listed believed what an "angel" had told them.

Always enjoy your "educating" posts! :waving:

shaberon

1st September 2018, 04:41

Yes of course...you are pretty much spot on in saying that any "angelic" being in a crystal, a dream...or three thousand of them flying over a battlefield...really needs to be taken with a grain of salt. There are over 300 millions classes of such beings, many or most of whom are lower than, or lack the fullness of humanity. So, a lot of them can only bring a sort of one-dimensional message, possibly derived from them having no individual mind and being stuck in a life form that lasts as long as the universe.

But, if that is true, then it must also be true that ones such as the Elohim exist, and in that regard, magic isn't really any different from Genesis, except in the explanation and meaning. And plausibly it would be identical, if the original or authentic method of Moses had been preserved, but, instead, it can pretty well be shown that it was raked over many times, and used to support man made institutions of the oppressive kind. Same with "the Nazarene", who was not really "from Nazareth", but Nazarean--Nasorean--Ebionite, who entered Egypt and became a Therapeutae (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeutae), which is a healer. Known for twenty healing "miracles", the other five such as turning water to wine are mostly seen as allegorical by theologians, and not even accepted in many branches of the church.

If someone is willing to walk into the worst part of a city, and personally help the sick, hungry, and homeless, then they could be considered a follower of that particular teacher, but not otherwise. And in truth, there are far more Jesuits who have done this kind of thing, than in any of the other branches. Their "control apparatus" is perfectly horrid, but the missions of many of the newer 1st/2nd degree adherents, are the only friend that some people ever have.

On another look, the most influential person to Queen Elizabeth appears to be William Cecil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Cecil,_1st_Baron_Burghley), and since the queen was a bastard, it was impossible for her to run a Catholic regime. Therefor, for the third time in most of their lives, the English population was forced to switch religions.

John Dee probably could not have functioned unless supportive of the pro-English, anti-Spanish maneuvers, so, even if he comes across as a bit close to New World Order or British Empire, it makes sense for the time it happened. It was really difficult to criticize the Old World Order unless you had something like a king who wanted an illegal divorce. He certainly was not an architect of the nefarious plot which pre-dated him, which was not English. As with most historical personalities, living mostly under tyranny which did not admit any other point of view, if they could chip away at one aspect of evil, or reveal a tiny little grain of truth, that's about all you can really expect from them. Like Thomas Jefferson continuing to keep slaves, I don't think that makes him a hypocrite, because the issue was political institutions; no one had really come forward to challenge slavery yet. Now that our knowledge base consists of "a challenge to everything", we are in a much different place from those who had limited information and could probably only join a singular "cause" if they could.

Foxie Loxie

1st September 2018, 17:53

When I was listening to the Vincent Bridges tape(Thank you, leavesoftrees!), the language of "angels" he was talking about made me think of Klaus Dona's discovery of a language he found which must have existed before the last great catastrophe. :confused: He found it inscribed on items in various parts of the world.

This excursion into the world of John Dee has been most interesting! To understand past events one seems to have to enter into the mindset of that precise time period.

Thanks all! :highfive:

Valerie Villars

1st September 2018, 23:08

Jayke

2nd September 2018, 00:19

I, too, am experiencing a resurgence of interest in a subject I have spent many years reading about, but mostly in a historical context. I am beginning to think I am attracted to this time period BECAUSE it may have been a crucial turning point.

This is one of a few time frames in history where an incredible flash of fine minds met at a certain place and time and had a real impact on the world we know today. A fine flash of fire.

Giordano Bruno, John Dee, Robert Fludd, Jacob Boehme... the last of the Renaissance magi or the first of the Rosicrucians?

It’s definitely one of my favourite eras; full of magic, awe, reverence and wonder!

Francis Yates ”Rosicrucian Enlightenment” (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rosicrucian-Enlightenment-Routledge-Classics/dp/0415267692) is a great read for putting Dee in the social context of the changes taking place — the infusion of oriental alchemy into the existing fires burning within the Hermetic and Kabbalah traditions that had already been smouldering away in Prague. Spiritual fireworks for the Renaissance philosophers to apply their art and reason around!

’How the Nation Was Won’ (https://www.amazon.com/Nation-Americas-Untold-Story-1630-1754/dp/0943235219) is a great follow on from Francis Yates book, although not quite as magical, it shows what happened next? How the ideals of the Rosicrucians put forth by Dee and the others in the 16th century led to the creation of the United States in the 17th.

Valerie Villars

2nd September 2018, 00:45

shaberon

2nd September 2018, 07:12

Original Rosicrucianism came from Christian Rosenkreuz in the Crusades, passed through almost all of the alchemists to John Dee, then Elias Ashmole, and then shortly thereafter went underground. Later societies bearing the name are disconnected reconstructions. The one I'm surprised has not come up yet is Golden Dawn, heavily inspired by Dee. It's mostly ceremonial magic and I have taken them to task and wind up not agreeing with them in several ways, even though it is based in the same literature.

It gets quite dodgy because when taken up by new sets of hands who are untrained, everyone clamors for their five minutes of fame and tries to get rich, and if you look at the G. D. website even now, I believe on the very first page it tempts you with money and a new car.

The real method--and I forget who I'm quoting here--is "To do good by stealth and blush at its discovery". Therefor, aside from the alchemists and court astrologers, most of the original Rosicrucians remain unknown. It was oriental, same as the Johannite "heresy" which is the real secret of the Templars, both groups having to shroud their orientalism in a visibly Christian format to avoid persecution. In this, we see that men of good morals also operate "behind the scenes" and would be just as involved with spycraft and other forms of secrecy and disguise as those of evil intent.

The Elizabethan era was shortly after the Renaissance, meaning "rebirth", mostly thought of in terms of literature and art, but it was the rebirth of magic--the more humanist faction being inspired by Pico della Mirandola and the Florentine Medicis. He had discovered manuscripts sealed in a small town in Italy and was, plausibly, the singular cue for the whole ball of wax to get rolling, in public terms. The aim was to make literacy, health, etc., no longer a privilege of nobility, but available to the common person. If I had to pick a singular cause for widespread enlightenment, it would probably be him.

That particular area didn't work out so good, the Medicis got trashed, and you can go out and find the accusations saying their descendants are still around and up to no good and so forth, but here's what happened to Medici power: they donated all their wealth to Tuscany. You won't find many nobles giving it all away to a state they no longer control.

I think it was inevitable fallout to the Roman church. You don't find many other examples of a religious group crushing an entire continent for a millenium after having seized it by violence. They exterminated free speech and imposed thought control. If they were correct, then this would have been preserved, but with history at their back and the rest of the world surrounding them, their cycle came to an end. The major hand serving as the repository for all the church tried to crush is the Druze. The external actors who have attempted to inspire Europe with something besides its church for all these centuries are the Buddhists and the Druze. Non-violently, through open debate when possible, and if not, then by secret works, mostly indirectly by agents. No Druze will ever explain this, nor their religion, and you cannot go join them.

Once the genie was out of the bottle, magic became incredibly popular for centuries; this is why Natural Philosophy was crippled and converted into the materialistic science of dead matter, to try to get rid of it again. There, you see the culmination of the original battle between the school of Plato (Natural Philosophy) and Aristotle (dead matter). Throughout the whole ordeal, it has always been basically the followers of Aristotle who implement all the programs that mislead man, and attempt to reduce him to an idiot if not an outright beast. You find this exactly repeated from the time of Alexander the Great up to the Age of Science, with all of today's oppressive economical systems being Aristotelian. It's simple, but confusing to most people who want to "blame the Jews for everything", or have been too subjected to church or science dogma to be able to find their way out.

Jayke

2nd September 2018, 09:23

Yes, Jayke, but what I am struggling with is this continuous mindset of nations instead of people; people's minds, their evolution, their evolving as whole human beings as it relates to evolution of us as God or whoever's creation. How did that place and those people happen and why?

My understanding is that it’s all part of ’The Music of the Spheres’ (as it relates to systems theory, character development, neuroscience, planetary motions etc).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Harmonies-Heaven-Earth-Mysticism-Avant-Garde/dp/0892815000

Joscelyn Godwin explores music's effects on matter, living things, and human behavior. Turning to metaphysical accounts of the higher worlds and theories of celestial harmony, the author follows the path of musical inspiration on its descent to Earth, illuminating the archetypal currents that lie beneath Western musical history.

There was a very Venusian impulse at the beginning of the Renaissance, followed by a strong Mercurial impulse. Was it Manly Hall that talks about a 600 year ‘cycle of the Phoenix’? A Renaissance every 600 years brought about by the incoming energies of planetary archetypes?

The hermetic and Kabbalah tradition are both very left-brained, reasonable and rational — whereas the Vajryana alchemical practices, that became infused into the Renaissance, isn’t reason based at all — it’s grounded in right-brained, emotion, energy and embodied cognition; the wisdom of the intelligence of the body as a whole. I love the alchemical art from that time period (Michael Maier — Atalanta Fugien), which is designed to resonate with the right-brain more than our reasonable apparatus.

The left-brain is more manipulative, cold, calculated, hierarchy based; which is why it gives rise to the oppressive tendencies of Aristotoleanism, as Shaberon points out. Whereas the right-brain is more holistic, heart-based, intuitive and idealistic. Right-brain wisdom gives rise to the Platonic ideals and Venusian impulses.

Whatever was happening within the harmony of the spheres during the Renaissance, it seems to have triggered an ‘alchemical wedding’, and individuals who were in tune with the cosmic currents of creation were able to harness these impulses and put them to use.

http://jungcurrents.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Sixth-woodcut-from-the-series-in-Basil-Valentines-Azoth..jpg

The East conjoined its alchemical wisdom with the West. The sun (left-brain) and the moon (right-brain) were activated simultaneously and synced up to create the masterpieces of art and science that still leave us in awe to this day.

Is another ‘Cycle of the Phoenix’ about to line up within the music of the spheres? I’ve been seeing some indications that another planetary Renaissance is certainly on the horizon. :sun:

shaberon

6th September 2018, 02:13

Music of the Spheres is the right idea behind astrology, as above so below. Even though one of its most explanatory treatises was written by the Jesuit Athanasius Kircher, I think he was pretty straightforward and didn't do some excessive things like G. D.

In terms of some cycle, I got to looking at Atlanta and it is not actually named for Atlantis/Atlantic Ocean, but for goddess Atalanta mentioned above, I believe she is Virgo or Blindfolded Justice.

Look at the town it was: built for about 15 years by industrialists who pushed natives off the land, and started a railroad to do commerce with the products of slavery. Then it was attacked and burned by an army who claimed the people were its subjects. So it's got a pretty sketchy background to say the least. Would one ever think that imbalance of justice could, somehow, even up?

Valerie Villars

20th September 2018, 12:20

Foxie Loxie

20th September 2018, 13:30

Thanks, Val! Any other "gems" discovered?! :coffee:

Valerie Villars

20th September 2018, 19:10

A lot of gems Foxie. Here, I'll pick another.

John Dee, Edward Kelly, Aleister Crowley, Victor Neuburg, Jack Parsons, Marjorie Cameron, and many others consciously engaged with the Apocalypse, casting themselves in central roles. Each experienced profound alterations of consciousness-an inner apocalypse. This is the original meaning of apokalypsis, which means not a conflagration of violence but "an uncovering," a revelation of divine knowledge that permanently casts the world in a new light. These inner revelations were considered to be linked to the outer apocalypse-the objective progress of the world toward its end-even, through the logic of sympathetic magic, to effect and accelerate this timeline. In the real world, such inner visionary experiences influenced these individuals' later actions, many of which (as detailed previously) were intimately connected with the ideological, cultural, and even military development of the British and American empires.

These actions did not occur in a vacuum-they are deeply personal expressions of the millennia-long spiritual narrative of Western culture itself, which progressed around these magicians' individual work and would have continued to advance with or without them. It is unlikely that the average Christian fundamentalist or American politician has ever heard of Dee or even entertained the concept of magic as anything except a "Satanic" force forbidden by scripture; if they have heard of Crowley, it is as a one-dimensional symbol of this perceived Satanism. Yet, as demonstrated at length in the previous chapters, Dee and those who followed him have indeed played a starring role in the West's rush to Armageddon.

Foxie Loxie

20th September 2018, 20:53

Got to agree on that, Val! Since most people have no conception of the fact that we humans ARE "creators"....it is not possible for the majority to understand that because of the narrowminded religious construct here in the West, we are hastening ourselves toward a preconceived "End Time" scenario!

Instead, we should be envisioning a Glorious Future as we are crawling out of the morass of the Pedo Empire! Be sure to read Herve's just posted article on the CIA/APA. I'm sure you could "relate" in many ways! :heart:

shaberon

20th September 2018, 21:54

I read "John Dee and the Empire of Angels" day before yesterday. It's a very well-written book in a really non obscure way which I appreciate. There are many excellent points in this book and the author really gave me an understanding of the passing of the baton of magic from John Dee on and how that baton was picked up by Aleister Crowley, whatever one may think of him. What's amazing to me is the level of influence from Crowley's black arts. It seems he didn't start out in the blackness, but acted it out wholeheartedly later on.

Anyway, here's an interesting quote from the book regarding astrology and magic:

Astrology, like sorcery, is about defining the narrative of reality..........astrology operates in the realm not of actual observed phenomena but of the human mind and the meanings it attaches to observed events. Magicians,, astrologers and prophets can often appear to have changed objective reality, when all that has truly changed is the subjective way in which events are being perceived, a skillful manipulation of confirmation bias.

That sounds familiar. Life in the 21st century.

Crowley's mom called him the Beast and he spent the rest of his life trying to live up to it. His last book was somewhat of a release, I forget the name.

But yes, since the objective world is an illusion then, ordinary waking consciousness is nothing other than the casting of illusions. This is to say that reality is transcendental and not of this world. So the mind has a meditational ability or state, and the rest of the time you are casting illusions. This is just a law of nature.

Most people are not particularly good at it and relatively easy to pave, and will continually be trodden unless taking the same knowledge and using it in a compassionate way.

Valerie Villars

20th September 2018, 22:10

I did read it (Herve's post) and I thought it was the best article on that I have ever read.

Foxie, I just love you. That comment about crawling out of the morass of the Pedo Empire and us being creators is spot on and you always make me giggle in a good way.

We need to think about a future with no mind control and torture, too. :heart:

Tintin

20th September 2018, 22:35

John Dee: Scholar Courtier Magician - Video tour and interview by Gordon White of Rune Soup

''I was lucky enough to be shown around the Royal College of Physicians' John Dee exhibit in mid-January 2016.''

Zu2D4vpTkv8

https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/news/mystical-objects-john-dee

This is wonderful, and the curator - Katie Birkwood - so genuinely very enthusiastic. :thumbsup: Infectiously so.

I've been to the RCP a few times - once for a very interesting conference with the First Nations representatives from the Yukon and our academic team some 8 years or so ago (but that's a topic for a different thread potentially).

I never knew that this exhibition was there!

Thanks so much for sharing. I'll have to make a real mission to go back there specifically to see these artefacts, and books.

:focus:

Valerie Villars

21st September 2018, 01:19

The thing that struck me about Dee was that he seemed to be so sincerely searching. I don't know if he was mislead or not, but at least he was trying.

norman

21st September 2018, 12:25

I watched this documentary of Dee. Based on this, my view of his determination to "know" something is that his story is a classic case of a cerebral quest folly. I've long help a view that the mind for mind's sake is a faulty facsimile of what real knowledge is about. This documentary rams that point home for me even harder than before.

I agree with all those "superstitious" simpletons in the early part of the story that said it was 'black' (not for any religious reason). For me, that cerebral determination IS the dark side. It's not what the mind is there for, imo.

WSnIHLVa2Qw

Valerie Villars

21st September 2018, 12:32

Yes Norman, I agree with your remarks. That's what always gives me pause when I read about those who are trying to mind muscle their way in to answers. The real answers lie within the heart.

However, that whole time period interests me greatly and I have read extensively about it. The thing that I DO like about Dee is that he loved and understood the value of books. In that sense, he was a man after my own heart.

I do think he had a fair amount of heart invested in his lifelong studies, obviously. When you read a biography of his life, he certainly did not profit financially from any of the work he did and was treated like an outcast in many respects.

Tintin, he certainly is fascinating. I'd love to see that exhibit. It would be a highlight of my life. I am a margin scribbler and doodler myself. :waving:

Foxie Loxie

21st September 2018, 15:17

Norman, your remarks made me think, "Ivory Tower Scholars"! :ROFL:

Neils Bohr said to his son, "You're not THINKING, you're being logical!" It is such a shame we have not been taught who we are as Complete Beings....spiritual first! (Read that here on Avalon somewhere yesterday.)

As Ba-ba-Ra stated, we are driving the "car"....we are NOT the car!! ;)

Tintin

21st September 2018, 16:43

Tintin, he certainly is fascinating. I'd love to see that exhibit. It would be a highlight of my life. I am a margin scribbler and doodler myself. :waving:

:waving: back, Valerie.

I may only be half joking when I suggest the time I do make to go and see it - whenever that may be - you should come along for the ride too! And it may be sooner rather than later, however we are measuring that time :wink:

How simply splendid that you're doodler - I've done similar things in the past, and occasionally still do :sun:

:focus:

Valerie Villars

21st September 2018, 17:55

Well, that would be quite a ride Tintin. I'm in south Louisiana. Maybe some angels will swing by and give me a ride there. Lord knows I've experienced stranger things than that. :bigsmile:

Foxie Loxie

21st September 2018, 19:57

Thanks for posting the John Dee special, Norman....it helps to understand the bigger picture of his life. Another lesson showing we should not "follow" anyone...not even an "angel"! :doh:

Valerie Villars

21st September 2018, 20:21

The angels I met were certainly not all they are cracked up to be. I'd rather be human unless I meet an angel that changes my mind.

Caliban

21st September 2018, 23:48

The angels I met were certainly not all they are cracked up to be. I'd rather be human unless I meet an angel that changes my mind.

See, why don't you write a song with that, Valerie?

The angels I met
were certainly not all they
were cracked up to be
If I met ol' John Dee
Yeah, I'd probably up and flee

Those angels I met weren't
exactly horrible
but they weren't too kind
I'd rather be a human
unless I meet an angel who changes my mind

Yeah, I'd rather stick to bein' human
'less some sweet angel I can find

(and so on...)

So many song possbilities lost into the Avalon vapors........

Valerie Villars

22nd September 2018, 00:43

Thanks Caliban. I've been writing my whole life. Many journals, poems, musings, etc. It's all on paper, except for this digital stuff, which I'm really not a fan of because unless it's on paper or something more permanent, it will be lost in time. I'm just not musically trained. I wish I was.

I do have a song (actually quite a few I wrote) about Bienville and so many other things. I can write lyrics rather easily.

Caliban

22nd September 2018, 00:47

Thanks Caliban. I've been writing my whole life. Many journals, poems, musings, etc. It's all on paper, except for this digital stuff, which I'm really not a fan of because unless it's on paper or something more permanent, it will be lost in time. I'm just not musically trained. I wish I was.

I don't buy that musically trained thing. We're all "musically trained." Like Kantner said, "Go ride the music..." Music is for all of us to sing, not just the singers, if you know what I mean. (Sounds like another song :)

Valerie Villars

22nd September 2018, 00:53

I think it's called "The Mists of Avalon". It's written in the aether, (sp.); it never goes away. Our human minds just want to grasp it but maybe we shouldn't.

Caliban

22nd September 2018, 00:57

I think it's called "The Mists of Avalon". It's written in the aether, (sp.); it never goes away. Our human minds just want to grasp it but maybe we shouldn't.

Ha Ha that's another song beginning there... I'm hearing everything in song lyrics these days... Music is everything, especially when it's nothing, when we forget it, it remembers us, calls us silently back

(that's really where you find the angels)

Valerie Villars

22nd September 2018, 01:13

Foxie Loxie

22nd September 2018, 18:14

After hearing the end of John Dee's story concerning the "angel"....don't think I want to meet any!! ;)

Valerie Villars

22nd September 2018, 18:33

Caliban

23rd September 2018, 00:52

I know this is dumb, but I really wanted my angels to have wings. I can't even have normal angels. Mine were all musicians or homeless. Why can't my angels have wings and other pretty things?

Caliban, I just meant I can't play any instruments, but I can write songs/lyrics.

You can sing and the voice is the first and primal instrument. Everything comes after that, the human voice.

Your angels prob'ly didn't want to freak you out, so they pretended to be street people or guitar players. The angel is inside you. That white hot glow of passion. The cool violet tinge of release and letting everything go. The angel is in the mirror. The angel is in your voice.

Valerie Villars

23rd September 2018, 20:04

Thanks Caliban. That bought tears to my eyes. That is really beautiful. But if they just had said they were angels, it would have been easier.

I sing all the time.

Gridkeeper

5th June 2019, 20:35

Here is a real 007 talking about Dr.Dee and teaching the public secrets of illuminism.

https://youtu.be/WKJRgcnG7l4

TomKat

5th June 2019, 23:48

The story of John Dee and Edward Kelley reminds me of the story of Jack Parsons and L Ron Hubbard. The sound of history repeating...

Lakeofmarch

25th September 2019, 21:48

He got the mirror from the Aztecs, who thus had their revenge upon the Spanish.. and if you follow the story with calendar in hand, every time a Native American empire was toppled in the Americas, its spirits hauled to London to cook further mischief, and every time a vestige from one of them was recovered, the Hapsburgs or Bourbons suffered a substantial blow. Conquest of Petén-Founding of the Bank of England; discovery of Coyolxauhqui-French Revolution, so on. May write it up in detail one of these days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_conquest_of_Pet%C3%A9n

shaberon

26th September 2019, 18:47

Interesting...Montezuma's Revenge?

It would be worth some more detail. At the time, England was not really a power. Spain was, but in terms of wealth it was Belgium/Congo and Netherlands/Indonesia. England changed when Francis Drake captured a Spanish treasure train in Panama.

The Benelux "pillar of wealth" was nothing new but was Venetian fondi, and people were quite aware about this, being flamed by Chaucer and Dante. This is what "took" England via Oliver Cromwell/Bank or England/House of Orange. And this is what grew to become the mightiest.

I am not a fan of Catholic tyranny, so I can understand, at first, why this Anglo-Dutch axis may have looked like a good idea, although now we know it to be a scoundrel of a different stripe. So in reprise, some of the Catholic powers such as Hapsburg Franz Josef and the restoration of Bourbon Victor Emmanuel were, on a moral ground, superior.

I would hold that some awareness of the dangers of the "new" English Empire or United Kingdom were understood by Marie Antoinette, Maria Theresa, Catherine the Great, and the American Founding Fathers. America saw fit to repudiate the British by attacking them; and bear in Mind, Russia is not part of this "Catholic or Protestant" rivalry, since it is Byzantine. The "two sides" were responsible for most of the European conflicts, but, it seems to me, in the age of "Synarchy", they merged into "one system", which has worked very well, until now, when it has been confronted by "the Byzantines". In other words, the Russian strategy in most of the world's view has very much exposed the propaganda of the Synarchist system as it tried to fracture Syria.

Synarchy will use any sides and appear to be enemies. The older type of Oligarchy such as Venice really has known figures whose politics may be known. Synarchy is more like a shadow oligarchy where the responsible parties and their actions are much more difficult to determine; i. e. Rockefeller's sigh of relief about the reporters mostly staying out of his hair so "our plans can move forward", public scrutiny would never allow it. Those faces have no state or religion, merely labels, and only serve the system itself on an international basis, ready to attack or sacrifice anything they believe will further their agenda.

But I think this, itself, may be becoming historical, as the "World War Two" system of mono-polar dominance no longer moves forward at will.

ExomatrixTV

18th February 2024, 21:44

Angel Alphabets-John Dee and Shakespeare by Vincent Bridges, Stars and Stones:

Ef0OKbT70bY

goldenmean.info/ophanim (https://goldenmean.info/ophanim)
ALCHEMY and Enochian/Ophanic Magic (https://www.facebook.com/groups/382253755496471)

Lunesoleil

4th December 2024, 14:03

https://www.astrotheme.fr/carte/ZF4jZmc5ATMPZzAVGSL1qUDjZQNjZGNjZQNj.png https://www.astrotheme.fr/astrologie/John_Dee

John Dee (July 13, 1527 – 1608 or 1609) was a famous British mathematician, astronomer, astrologer, geographer and occultist. He devoted much of his life to the study of alchemy, divination and Hermetic philosophy.

Dr. Dee (or rather Mr. Dee, the latter having left the University before completing his doctorate) paved the way for the study of science and magic at a time when we were beginning to differentiate between these two concepts. Renowned as one of the most cultured men of his time, he gave lectures at the University of Paris to packed houses when he was only around twenty years old.

k-R4GacDtcw

Tintin

4th December 2024, 15:30

A serendipitous 'bumping' here from lunesoleil :highfive:

I'd come across this quite interesting looking blog earlier today with a lengthy detailed entry for John Dee. It's a bit too long to copy in full here though.

Link: https://www.metaphysicalarticles.org/2024/07/case-profile-john-dee.html

Title: Psychic Phenomena Case Profile: John Dee

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhp4oye_GcYj_sim-wUmIaLPo5t35IxY4QbOcOAu9cidjA8OJig8GV1aJg9Y2srH-ndBBcefoQvJCaIV8ircMTqg8anF6X_BYBpVimb-XWFiNLvidsa4TqPqpY1KMiw_5o5fcXLjnOIRNf3ariKW6Wunm6yQpuxPEk2Y_YV2UF5wUg4rZ9Wn4E2AM32bES-/w341-h410/John%20Dee%20portrait.jpg

Biographer Charlotte Fell-Smith wrote in her 2004 book: "From the original (artist unknown) in the Ashmolean Museum, Oxford. It is inscribed on the face 'Johannes Dee Anglus Londinensis Aet⁸ suæ 67.' [This is the same age as this blogger is presently.] The portrait was acquired by Ashmole from Dr. John Dee's grandson Rowland, and was left by him to Oxford University with his collections."

Anyone desiring to see the documentation for some recent manifestation of Divinity need only consider what is reported in the preceding blog article. Nearly 500 years ago, there was compiled one collection of historical records where the thoughts of the chronicler of supernatural manifestation are extensively and unambiguously defined. This is the extant collection of transcripts and journals of Dr. John Dee (circa 1527-1609). None of these writings were published nor intended to be published by Dee during his lifetime. A preponderance of what is stated in the transcendental communication correlates with what may learned from contemporary channeling case chronologies with figurative language implemented to avoid discordancy with what was accepted as having been established at that time in relation to beliefs about morality and cosmology.

Previous blog articles about John Dee include "Some Further Observations about the 'Michael' Pattern", "In Comparison: Pearl Curran, 'Miss Beauchamp,' John Dee and Edward Kelly", "John Dee and Edward Kelly's Visitor from the Ascended Realm" and "Unknown Places of the Earth: Ramtha and John Dee's Spiritual Diary".

The period of Dr. John Dee's life when he chronicled angelic discourses in Q&A transcripts interspersed with journal commentaries began at the end of 1581 and extended through 1607. Dee's 'spiritual diaries' suggest what life was like in England for one who chronicled diverse encounters with 'spiritual creatures' and 'good Angels' (including Michael, Annael, Gabriel, Raphael and Uriel), whom Dee solemnly embraced as unquestionably being God's emissaries due to the wisdom and novelty of their discourses.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjDJApSFO-F6uxDta_Ui6ueejW2OcME22MhnMuKjnmQspFoqPnHtjtd9ce4j0EjDbF7sk-T61kAsEqMhhhvhQAy_8iHLm7Ef03z4pmjRfRpTVyLStuEUbIGF39ZrqdRN5OZxLTFth-nobQRb3n7JRfWyXwSkxfIvxNd28kzS0rHF6pf-zNS-F9Behnxdg/s640/rel-1-1-1.jpg

Probably the rarest book that I was able to purchase during the period between 1985 and 1995 when I visited antiquarian book fairs searching for literary treasures was a limited edition reprint of the 1659 book A True & Faithful Relation of What passed for many Yeers Between Dr. John Dee (A Mathematician of Great Fame in Q. Eliz. And King James their Reignes) and Some Spirits: Tending (had it Suceeded) To a General Alteration of most STATES and KINGDOMS in the World. I decided to read the book in its entirety in late 2006. The book's title page also divulged further contents: "His Private Conferences with Rudolphe Emperor of Germany, Stephen K. of Poland, and divers other Princes about it. The particulars of his Cause, as it was agitated in the Emperors Court; By the Popes Intervention: His banishment, and Restoration in part. As Also The Letters of Sundry Great Men and Princes (some whereof were present at some of these Conferences and Apparitions of Spirits;) to the said D. Dee. Out Of The Original Copy, written with Dr. Dees own Hand: Kept in the LIBRARY of Sir THO. COTTON, Kt. Baronet. With a PREFACE Confirming the Reality (as to the Point of Spirits) of This RELATION: and shewing the several good uses that a Sober Christian may make of all. By Meric. Casaubon, D.D."

Illustrations opposite the book's title page present engraved portraits of Dr. Dee and his 'scryer' (spirit medium) Edward Kelly alongside depictions of famous men whose exploits were deemed comparable at the time of publication: Muhammad, Apollonius of Tyana, Roger Bacon, and Paracelsus. The portraits appear under the heading "The Order of the Inspirati."

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgGEOegkJrI9EOlj7-d0SmMRTGmqpZKtxFnNlAuy5_tH4D4ZqRBCRuVtYsFcUjKHdtJsxoPIpbFtRczfCLLuxbDItbmQeRb1rSwo5m7KXoO43qpDSXRjke 791oLm0xuUyDNZbxb32Foxk0UH4MJvRc-XheJzPuQ4JwOsLUVwz-YwFc49TFNenEiFAyemw/w408-h640/rel-2-1-2.jpg

The inside book jacket for the 1974 reprint described Dee as having attempted "to aid humanity by bringing peace and reconciliation to a Europe torn by war and religious intolerance. He and his medium journeyed throughout sixteenth century Europe to Bohemia, meeting leading political figures . . . Throughout their journey the two partners called upon the guidance and help of the spirits." Dee in the book would leave no doubt that many of his travels were conducted at the suggestion and involvement of the angelic spirits.

Also mentioned on the book jacket: "Whether these manifestations were the work of beneficent powers or whether they were the snares of Devils, is a matter for conjecture." Regarding this area of concern, Dee's pious Christian mentality and praises of God offered by Dee throughout the book were ignored — overlooked perhaps with the intention of inspiring interest in the book among latter-day aspiring wizards. To address the question raised, the development of one's morality involving intellectual and emotional capacities is integral to all of life's interactions and chronicles such as this of Dee and Kelly (also spelled Kelley in some sources) present vivid examples of men interacting with beings manifesting from another realm of existence.

Casaubon's edition brings together thirteen of John Dee's books chronicling "actions with spirits." During Dee's life, the majority of his supernatural experiences were shared with scryers (or [de-]scri[b]ers/psychic seers), among whom Edward Kelly is most prominent. The interaction of angelic spirits with the duo has resulted in a memoir of two very different temperaments responding to supernatural revelation. The mouldering diary pages constituting Casaubon's edition was reported to have been retrieved from a field where buried by Dee.

The first of Dee's journals presented in successive books spanning the period to May 23, 1583 weren't included in Casaubon's edition. How these books, now known as Mysteriorum Libri Quinque or 'Book of Mysteries' came to be is explained by Elias Ashmole in a preface to these works. One explanation is that Dee placed many of his cherished original manuscripts in a 'private drawer' of a cedarwood chest. Many years after his death, they were found by an English couple who didn't know what they had found. Missing volumes are believed due to the couple's maid having used them in her kitchen work. When the wife became a widow and remarried, her new husband exchanged the books with Elias Ashmole for an edition of the author's The Institution, Lawes & Ceremonies of the most Noble Order of the Garter (1672).

The earlier spiritual journals not included in A True & Faithful Relation. . . have been published as John Dee's Five Books of Mystery: Original Sourcebook of Enochian Magic: From The Collected Works Known as Mysteriorum Libri Quinque edited by Joseph J. Peterson. For this easy-to-read revised 2003 edition, Peterson explained that he added footnotes to clarify obscurities in the language, translated Latin passages and updated the text in some particulars. One footnote about Dee's influence upon the English language states "he is credited with coining the word 'unit,' which he used to translate the Greek 'monas.' He also coined the word Britannia.'" Excerpts I've included from the fourth and fifth books of mystery are from Peterson's edition except where otherwise noted. Latin translations quoted from the Peterson edition are indicated by italics followed by an asterisk.

Included in the fifth of these books of mystery are a description of the circumstances involving the angels dictating to Kelly the book entitled Liber Loagaeth in an otherwise unknown language. In the introduction to John Dee's Five Books of Mystery Peterson divulges about Liber Loagaeth, "This 'angelic book' was later used to extract a long series of messages (or 'calls') in yet another unknown language, called Enochian . . . Since the book is so central to these angelic communications, it is amazing that it has remained unpublished." Digital scans of Liber Loagaeth and other Enochian manuscripts had been available at the website themagickalreview.org, where I read in 2006 an unidentified commentator's affirmation that the angels dictated ". . . a complete classification of the universe based upon mathematical and linguistic principles." The commentator continued:

The revolutionary nature of the mathematics involved (which foreshadowed the system of
point-sphere numeration which is discussed in The Book of the Law) is today but little understood. The same may be said of the corresponding linguistic aspect of these conferences, with its unique and original "Angelic" or "Enochian" language; and although this language has been studied in greater depth, and has been found to possess its own grammar and syntax, further work on this inflected language (along the lines of Chomskayan structural analysis) is the subject of continuing interest.

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Much more of great interest of course in the article here (https://www.metaphysicalarticles.org/2024/07/case-profile-john-dee.html)

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Recommended thread: Shakespeare did NOT write Shakespeare. (Mark Twain: "Is Shakespeare Dead?") (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?95596-Shakespeare-did-NOT-write-Shakespeare.--Mark-Twain-Is-Shakespeare-Dead--&p=1636923&viewfull=1#post1636923)

Lunesoleil

4th December 2024, 18:00

I am reading a book on astrology by Louis Mac Neice where John Dee has been quoted several times.

1)p.15 In the 16th century, the astrologer of Queen Elizabeth of England, John Dee stated bluntly that astrology is a mathematical art [...]

2)p.27 But in the 16th century, although John Dee was still protected by Elizabeth of England and Nostradamus by the Queen of France [...]

3)p.57 At the beginning of the 16th century, the famous John Dee - who also practiced alchemy and crystal clairvoyance - drew up horoscopes for the royal family of the Tudors; he later became the protégé of Queen Elizabeth [...]

a fascinating book, which you can find in English

A book in PDF HERE (https://archive.org/details/JohnDeesFiveBooksOfMysterJosephH.Peterson/page/n21/mode/2up) , HERE (https://archive.org/details/privatediaryofdr00deejuoft/page/n11/mode/2up) other HERE (https://ia601508.us.archive.org/19/items/JohnDeesFiveBooksOfMysterJosephH.Peterson/John-Dees-Five-Books-of-Myster-Joseph-H.-Peterson.pdf) , HERE (https://www.gutenberg.org/files/19553/19553-h/19553-h.htm)