Depression

[Mike]

I had this ex girlfriend who was always asking me , what are you thinking?

It always caught me off guard. It made me uncomfortable. I'd actually struggle to arrive at anything and would usually offer up something glib or silly to wriggle out of answering. But she wouldn't let it go. I'd answer, and she'd inevitably say no, what are you *really* thinking? And we'd go round in circles like that...

She fancied herself an intuitive and a witch. And I couldn't help but occasionally think, what the hell does she think I'm hiding? Is she seeing something I'm not quite in touch with? I got a little neurotic about it, honestly.

We fought frequently. I always felt I was winning these fights, and as I was smugly revelling in my victory, she'd say this: "Mike you're a total phony and you don't even know it."

And suddenly I'd revert back to being 6 years old after my sister called me a "poopyhead" or something. A phony? What do you mean I'm a phony? What the hell are you talking about? And having realized she was successfully under my skin, she would dodge answering directly and remain cryptically annoying about the whole thing. It was infuriating.

But the gist of it was this: she knew I was prone to bouts of depression and she wanted me to talk about it all the time. She had a similar issue. But our ways of dealing with it were dramatically different - she didn't feel a conversation was really worthwhile unless it was deadly serious and addressing all the heavy stuff in one's life, whereas I like to joke around a great deal to keep my head above water. I enjoy what you might call "deep" conversation, but it exhausts me over time if it's the exclusive mood of the dialogue.

So, at worst she thought I was glib and superficial and phony.....and I thought she was arrogant and sanctimonious and dry. We broke up maybe 6 months ago or so, but I've carried her accusations with me. In weaker moments I'd think, sh!t, maybe she's right...maybe I am a phony.

But I've since had a revelation....
The world is a brutal place. Tragedy is ubiquitous. There are endless reasons to be depressed and hopeless. Endless. It's easy to remain that way. You could justify it in all sorts of ways.

It's much more challenging and noble to at least try to be upbeat and positive. In fact, one doesn't have a choice . In the face of impossible, trying to remain positive is the most challenging and noble thing one can do. That's not phoniness....it's the only game in town. You may think to yourself, it can't get any worse than this so why even try., But I assure you, it can get worse. Neglecting to try means the difference between mere tragedy and absolute hell.

I understand that there are forms of depression that leave one feeling incapable of anything...even getting out of bed. Been there. But looking back over my life, I can see that there were openings, there were opportunities to improve my situation, even in the darkest moments....but I rarely took them. I was too busy indulging this depression. And that's an enormous mistake, with unforgiving ramifications.

Theres a difference between being in denial about ones mental state and simply choosing not to indulge it 24 hours a day. My ex indulged her depression constantly because it gave her the perfect excuse to avoid the responsibility of at least trying to improve. It justified all her fears and shortcomings. It allowed her to sit on her butt and play the victim. Its all she ever focused on. She ridiculed my attempts at positivity because it revealed her weaknesses to her, and acknowledging that might have forced her to give an honest effort in life. She called me a phony but couldn't see how hypocritical that statement was.

Ah, I feel better now. It's 5:18 am, and having finally articulated that to myself in a clear fashion, maybe I can sleep now. Wish me luck.

[Woody]

Hi Mike, thank you for posting about your experiences of depression.
I have lived with depression since mid teens, I am now 53 years young. I have always tried to hide it, but everyone around me must have known I was not mentally well.

Fast forward to 3 years ago and total breakdown, serious suicide attempt resulted in me being escorted to hospital by the police, absolutely terrified that I had found myself in the uk mental health system. (Believe me as a former nurse the uk mental health service is not too good)

My depression is still with me, but meds do seem to reduce the burden of living with depression.
Have you heard of a short documentary called black dog depression? Very interesting and an eye opener for everyone with depression.

Stay well and strong

Woody

[Valerie Villars]

David Byrne was talking about this on the radio yesterday. Somewhat. Basically, he said the world is such a heavy place, that he had created a scrapbook of all the beautiful, noble, funny, uplifting things he could find. Just to remind himself of that side of life.

"High station in life is earned by the gallantry with which appalling experiences are survived with grace."

I agree about being uplifting and positive.

[PathWalker]

Beloved Mike,

I read your post with fascination and awe.
You are powerful and courageous to post on the subject. I commend you for that.

In addition please reflect on your action and mental attitude in the post. It is powerful and self enabling.
You are determinant and consistent in changing your reality!
Did you make it? Did you reach your goal?

You took the essence of the foul relationship, and turned lemon to lemonade.

Our most brutal rivals and challenges are our best teachers. She was a great teacher, and when you learnt your lessons it was time to depart.
Please thank her for the empowerment, and forgive her for the hurt/pain.

I strongly suggest Joe Dispenza material about changing our brain/habits.
AXrdVagSjjg

I also wish to remind you of the magic in Project Avalon.
If you need healing or assistance, explicitly request.
There are many real stories here of healing and manifestations.

Love
Joy and happiness
PathWalker

[shaberon]

Been in that same dynamic plenty of times.

The way it was put to me is: You think everything is a joke!

Nothing was further from the truth. I'm serious as death. That doesn't mean I have to feel bad or be boring. It does require courage. Seriously--brutality and hell lurk in every corner waiting to strike. That's not a joke and it's not particularly amusing. You are a phony and a coward if you pretend otherwise. Takes a lot to stare it in the face and turn around and use that as a motivation to make another being laugh or smile. That's why I do it. If I can't make a living creature feel good, I need to leave.

But it works. I can be 110% overflowing with depression, anger, and a host of other afflictions and basically toss my ego out the window, and it works. Instantly! This is all I have ever really done, is just to give away everything I can with no regard for self, as some kind of torch to pass along that benefits others. This worthless mortal coil will burn away to dust, but I believe that superior flame cannot be extinguished. This is the only way I have rebounded from life's many blows--self focus is a bottomless pit constantly sucking out energy, giving and sharing is all that matters.

Many humans are too thick to let you do this, and it turns out being generally more effective with animals, but as far as I am concerned they are also faced with the possibility to be happy or not. I would not treat a dog for a single instance in the way many people treat all people all the time.

I feel the same horrible things as anyone, and the only reason I haven't killed us all yet is from finding the ego to be the real phony, and just dropping it in order to spread something better that any creature can feel in its heart if it allows itself to. I would not do that if it didn't actually work, and if I can do it, anyone can.

[ErtheVessel]

Mike, so glad to hear you guys broke up. :clapping: It doesn't sound to me like she was particularly intuitive.

Carl Jung apparently believed (and I'm paraphrasing here) that normal depression was part of the process of transformation. Therefore not necessarily pathological, unless, I suppose, it goes on for decades. But who knows? Sometimes transformation takes decades. I have been seriously depressed myself, and it is a terribly difficult journey, but I have eventually slogged my way out of it over and over, usually somewhat richer for the misery. Seems to me that any sensitive, aware and thoughtful person interested in psychological growth is bound to face the overwhelming treachery of depression at certain stages.

I'm very glad to hear you no longer carry her accusations. From your participation on this forum, you sound to me remarkably forthright, playful, emotionally courageous and honest, without a whisper of phoniness ever - attributes I respect, value and aspire to myself.

Sometimes wallowing in depression is like endlessly slinging $#&t and results in just making oneself messy and stinky. Yes, it is challenging to see the upbeat and the positive, especially when one is depressed. It takes an ability to actually stand beside the depression and not be completely erased by it. There is a time for being true to one's pain, but there is also a time for knowing that sitting for another day in the dung heap is a waste of everyone's time. And to know that nothing is linear - things come and go and then come and go again. I guess it is up to each of us to find the balance that is the most respectful of our own soul's journey. She clearly did not respect your journey.

(No offense to anyone currently sitting in the dreadful misery of depression. Totally valid and understandable place to be. I wish for you comfort, grace and deep healing.)

[Mike]

wow, some excellent replies here.

given the state of the world, it's remarkable that *everyone* isn't pathologically depressed.

it's sometimes said that depression is a selfish disease. my response to that is that it's only selfish if the person suffering isn't doing everything in their power to improve. i wasn't always trying to improve...not in earnest anyway. And over time i became an enormous burden on the people around me, who all had their own crosses to bear. And i just can't shake the bloody guilt..

i took advantage of people who were assisting me by not giving a full effort. now i realize what a miracle it is to have people in one's life to lean on in times of struggle. if someone is offering a shoulder, lean on it, by all means...but don't lean too long; that person or persons will begin to resent you. it's not a matter of 'if', it's a matter of 'when'. While you're leaning, you have a responsibility to yourself and the person helping you to sort yourself out in order to be self reliant. that's how you honor the whole process. don't take advantage. it'll end in tears.

I've had 2 friends commit suicide. others have tried and failed. i come from this gloomy, hardscrabble town, lots of poverty and so on, and people routinely check out. others develop a caustic, sarcastic attitude, and a wicked tongue. i have old friends who call me weekly, threatening suicide..and a common thing they all say is this, i've tried everything man...nothing helps...

thats bullsh!t actually, because they haven't tried everything. they haven't tried medication, for example. no way, i'm not doing that sh!t, they'll say. i wouldn't want to take medication either, but it's better than being dead. this isn't an advert for the pharmaceutical industry btw, but when you hit absolute rock bottom, why on earth wouldn't you at least try??? Within a month you'll know if it's working for you or not. likely sooner. I'm not being glib when i say to them, at least try this for crying out loud..you can always kill yourself later...

like erthevessel said, varying degrees of depression must be expected in a world where tragedy is prevalent....but chronic, enduring depression is another matter. sometimes there was this sense, when i was at my worst, that whatever i had left in the tank wasn't nearly enough to climb out of the abyss, and exhausting it would only result in me sinking deeper...so i didn't even attempt to drag myself out out of fear that things would only get worse. over time i figured out that the key is to break everything up into small chunks, small enough that whatever energy you do have can remedy it. and over time, slowly, you multiply your personal power this way, and are able to deal with bigger and bigger chunks.

[Flash]

Lately I was always tired, waking up fine and then, 2 hours later, tired, depressed. I was finding it strange and decided to have a check up - thyroid, blood, etc. The md asked for anemia (low level of red blood cells - they do not test iron) and other stuff. Nothing came through.

I had to see my endocrinologist (diabetis) and have a blood test for her. I myself added up on the requisition "iron", which she had not requested.

Well, guess what, my iron level was much too low, despite having more red cells than normal (not anemic following standards). No iron= tiredness and depressive moods. Slowly recovering with iron supplements.

a side note: if you are ever poisoned by something, and tell our doctor you think you are poisoned, the western doctors will not take that into account and put you on anti-depressant, which solves nothing. Eastern or African doctors will believe you and do the appropriate cures following symptoms. In Eastern and African cultures, poison is regularly used to get rid of people. In the west, it is not our arms of choice....

Now looking in hindsight, I have had apathic periods throughout my life where I was depressed. I did lack iron 4 years ago and had to take supplements, and now again. I am now figuring that I may have had this problem throughout my life, but it was never corrected prior to 4 years ago. If I would have had those test about iron at an early age, I may have had a much better life altogether.

I do think that lots of depressive states are due to chronic lack of something essential in the body.

i do think that thorough check up, real thorough, like the elite may have, would help find out what are the deficiencies and correct it.

Anti depressors are fine on a temporary level, but extremely hard to get rid of once we are on (I took some for 3 years during divorce and while learning about my daughter's handicaps) and let it go afterwards, it took me a whole year to weane myself of it, going slowly. It was still a roller coaster ride.

One thing I do take when depressed is 5HTP (forbidden in England without prescription I think) sold over the counter in America and Canada. It promotes the production of serotonine by the body, without side effects.

[onawah]

Hey Mike,
I applaud your appreciation of humor to combat depression--I think it's one of the best tools we have.
( And so I refer you to my post here if you haven't already seen it: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103848-The-malaise---Can-anyone-relate&p=1244904&viewfull=1#post1244904
...as I think you will appreciate it. )
I had three siblings who committed suicide, and my mother attempted it when I was 9 ( I was the one who found her and called a neighbor for assistance, who rang for an ambulance.
They pumped her stomach and she survived, but of course, being a child, I blamed myself for making her life unbearable.)
So depression was rampant in my family.

A huge personal koan was finally solved when I learned from psychics that suicide prone people often reincarnate into the same families or groups to act as mirrors for each other.
Later, I learned from a wonderful shaman that suicides in generations of families can create a kind of entity which gets passed down from sibling to sibling and incorporates all that self-hating destructive energy into one big wallop of negative energy.
When the last of my 3 siblings offed himself, I inherited that family entity, and so suddenly, inexplicably, I became suicidal.

It wasn't really even depression that I came down with, it was pure self-loathing so dense that the prospect of creating even more suffering for myself through self-destruction actually gave me a very twisted feeling of satisfaction.
It was very weird, and I knew it was being caused by something other than myself, because I had been partially possessed by a demonic entity that came through my alcoholic father when I was about 3 years old, and it was similar.
I fought with that demon until I was in my late 20s, and finally overcame it with the help of a spiritual healer.

But the suicide entity was more than I could handle-- I think I was just too tired.
I tried to hang myself, but got busted before I could go through with it, then tried to slash my wrists and failed at that too ( too cowardly).
Oddly, the day after that second failure, I was fine.
I think the fact that I didn't resist that energy allowed me to dissipate it with all my dramatic shenanigans!

The shaman I met years later told me that there are many souls now on the planet who are working to break the suicidal patterns that have been passed down through generations of families, and that I was one of those souls.
Tibetan Lama Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche wrote in one of his books-I think it was Meditation in Action--that it is actually when we have exhausted ourselves through struggle that we finally catch a glimpse of what acceptance and surrender really are.

Part of the reason for the lingering depression that I felt after my release from suicidal tendencies had to do with my theories about spirituality.
I thought that I had to constantly monitor myself and remain identified only with the Light, denying my own Shadow.
But that kept me in a constant battle with myself, since the Shadow side must be brought into the open and accepted in order to be understood and to evolve.
I was also in denial about how much I doubted, how my faith wasn't really grounded in reality, and was therefore quite shaky.
I couldn't believe that God was Love with all the horrors that I saw in the world.

So I stopped believing in that God and started believing in the Creator, who created both Darkness and Light, and tried to learn to accept that, and to continue working toward evolving more toward the Light, without constantly trying to deny that my dark side had any value or relevance.
After all, Creator was responsible for the Darkness as well as the Light, and we are stuck with it, no matter how much we would like not to identify with it....
But I think we learn to become stronger through our experience of the dark side. and if it has value, then it is that, and I've learned to appreciate it.

And I've come to grin and bear it, appreciating what an attribute a great sense of humor can be; even if it is a trifle sardonic, you can't deny that it is wise.
You've probably read the scifi classic by Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land. Remember the scene when Michael Valentine Smith had a big satori and finally understood the dynamic of how human misery is created?
(He saw a monkey get hurt accidentally by a falling coconut, become enraged, and take it out on another monkey).
Thus he was also finally able to understand the root of laughter, and once he understood that, he lost his self-doubt.

It's not necessarily logical, but understanding can transcend logic--we can just feel it, with our hearts (and I know you do...).
Once we accept how things are, we can let go of the inner struggle and then we have a lot more energy to make things better, not by clinging or battling against, but just by going with the slow, steady flow of evolution.
:star::heart::muscle:

We don't have to have a huge enlightenment experience to get there; a bunch of little insights can add up eventually to the equivalent of one big satori.
A lot of depression is simply due to an unhealthy life style, but once we stop the internal battle, we have a lot more clarity and energy, so we can hear our bodies telling us what we need to feel better. :dancing:

[Caliban]

One thing I never understand is, if someone is that depressed, and I mean clinically like Mike is describing (and I've been there myself), why not, as you say, try the dreaded anti-depressants? They've helped some people after all, haven't they?

But what I really can't understand is -- if you're so depressed that you want to end it, why not try to change everything first, before you do the un-retreatable ? Change your entire life. Leave town, if you can, change jobs, get a divorce, take up tennis, join a new age church, or stop attending church. Give up the ghost while still in the body, in other words. Accept you're already dead while still alive.

You can also try surrendering, I mean totally surrendering to the Divine, like "Okay, I'm yours -- get me through this mess and I'll stick around..." But you have to have a little, just a little, faith to do that. A little faith that there's magic out there and in there. And to change everything you will need a little imagination. And self love.

(You can also visit the Favorite Music thread and listen to the wonderful things I post there and Bluegreen and others :) Some great medicine there. "Music is your only friend..." )

[Mike]

Nat that post was so full of soul and wisdom and raw honesty that i'm almost speechless. It gutted me, enlightened me, made me think and made me smile.

thanks so much for writing it.

lots of love to you!:flower:

[Mike]

Accept you're already dead while still alive.

Wow. I love this.

If one accepts that one is starting from ground zero, and not one inch above, and prepares oneself accordingly for the battle ahead of them, nothing will surprise them. without any expectations, one takes the journey without the emotional setbacks and letdowns that would occur otherwise. you're already dead and therefore have nothing to lose... at this level of pure and raw thinking, fear might leave you and you may just find the courage to make what you previously might have regarded as risky changes.

[onawah]

Off topic, but speaking of sardonic humor, check this out: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?97293-20-Basic-Tactics-Used-By-Narcissists-Sociopaths-And-Psychopaths-To-manipulate-And-Silence-A-Prey&p=1245459&viewfull=1#post1245459

[TargeT]

The world is a brutal place. Tragedy is ubiquitous. There are endless reasons to be depressed and hopeless. Endless. It's easy to remain that way. You could justify it in all sorts of ways.

It's much more challenging and noble to at least try to be upbeat and positive. In fact, one doesn't have a choice . In the face of impossible, trying to remain positive is the most challenging and noble thing one can do. That's not phoniness....it's the only game in town. You may think to yourself, it can't get any worse than this so why even try., But I assure you, it can get worse. Neglecting to try means the difference between mere tragedy and absolute hell...........

I was too busy indulging this depression. And that's an enormous mistake, with unforgiving ramifications.


Your singing my song, except I'm still working with my... teacher? and learning more than I'm comfortable too (but what challenge is comfortable?). I find aspects of our situations very fascinating, though we are deeply divided by experiential differences (context); I do think we share an archetypal struggle.

[Pam]

I had this ex girlfriend who was always asking me , what are you thinking?

It always caught me off guard. It made me uncomfortable. I'd actually struggle to arrive at anything and would usually offer up something glib or silly to wriggle out of answering. But she wouldn't let it go. I'd answer, and she'd inevitably say no, what are you *really* thinking? And we'd go round in circles like that...

She fancied herself an intuitive and a witch. And I couldn't help but occasionally think, what the hell does she think I'm hiding? Is she seeing something I'm not quite in touch with? I got a little neurotic about it, honestly.

We fought frequently. I always felt I was winning these fights, and as I was smugly revelling in my victory, she'd say this: "Mike you're a total phony and you don't even know it."

And suddenly I'd revert back to being 6 years old after my sister called me a "poopyhead" or something. A phony? What do you mean I'm a phony? What the hell are you talking about? And having realized she was successfully under my skin, she would dodge answering directly and remain cryptically annoying about the whole thing. It was infuriating.

But the gist of it was this: she knew I was prone to bouts of depression and she wanted me to talk about it all the time. She had a similar issue. But our ways of dealing with it were dramatically different - she didn't feel a conversation was really worthwhile unless it was deadly serious and addressing all the heavy stuff in one's life, whereas I like to joke around a great deal to keep my head above water. I enjoy what you might call "deep" conversation, but it exhausts me over time if it's the exclusive mood of the dialogue.

So, at worst she thought I was glib and superficial and phony.....and I thought she was arrogant and sanctimonious and dry. We broke up maybe 6 months ago or so, but I've carried her accusations with me. In weaker moments I'd think, sh!t, maybe she's right...maybe I am a phony.

But I've since had a revelation....
The world is a brutal place. Tragedy is ubiquitous. There are endless reasons to be depressed and hopeless. Endless. It's easy to remain that way. You could justify it in all sorts of ways.

It's much more challenging and noble to at least try to be upbeat and positive. In fact, one doesn't have a choice . In the face of impossible, trying to remain positive is the most challenging and noble thing one can do. That's not phoniness....it's the only game in town. You may think to yourself, it can't get any worse than this so why even try., But I assure you, it can get worse. Neglecting to try means the difference between mere tragedy and absolute hell.

I understand that there are forms of depression that leave one feeling incapable of anything...even getting out of bed. Been there. But looking back over my life, I can see that there were openings, there were opportunities to improve my situation, even in the darkest moments....but I rarely took them. I was too busy indulging this depression. And that's an enormous mistake, with unforgiving ramifications.

Theres a difference between being in denial about ones mental state and simply choosing not to indulge it 24 hours a day. My ex indulged her depression constantly because it gave her the perfect excuse to avoid the responsibility of at least trying to improve. It justified all her fears and shortcomings. It allowed her to sit on her butt and play the victim. Its all she ever focused on. She ridiculed my attempts at positivity because it revealed her weaknesses to her, and acknowledging that might have forced her to give an honest effort in life. She called me a phony but couldn't see how hypocritical that statement was.

Ah, I feel better now. It's 5:18 am, and having finally articulated that to myself in a clear fashion, maybe I can sleep now. Wish me luck.


The solution for me is neither talking endlessly or putting on a happy face, the solution is living in this very moment without judgement of it. Am I able to do that every moment of every day? No, but when I do, it has more of a freeing effect than all of the conditions in this world, good or bad and actually allows the space for inner contentment that beats being happy and upbeat any day. As a person that has strong depressive tendencies I have tried it all, the talking, the therapy, the antidepressants, new age mumbo jumbo, the happy face where everything is "fine". Staying in the present moment and not judging it surpasses by far, everything I have tried all put together. That's not to say I haven't had rebellion from my ego, playing endless tapes of self righteousness, victim hood and negativity, but like anything else, if you work at practicing staying in the moment and non judgement it gets easier and easier.

The weird thing is about living in the present moment without judgement, does not have to be a religious or spiritual thing, it is a skill that you can learn and master like anything else, the secret is to be persistent.

[Pam]

Lately I was always tired, waking up fine and then, 2 hours later, tired, depressed. I was finding it strange and decided to have a check up - thyroid, blood, etc. The md asked for anemia (low level of red blood cells - they do not test iron) and other stuff. Nothing came through.

I had to see my endocrinologist (diabetis) and have a blood test for her. I myself added up on the requisition "iron", which she had not requested.

Well, guess what, my iron level was much too low, despite having more red cells than normal (not anemic following standards). No iron= tiredness and depressive moods. Slowly recovering with iron supplements.

a side note: if you are ever poisoned by something, and tell our doctor you think you are poisoned, the western doctors will not take that into account and put you on anti-depressant, which solves nothing. Eastern or African doctors will believe you and do the appropriate cures following symptoms. In Eastern and African cultures, poison is regularly used to get rid of people. In the west, it is not our arms of choice....

Now looking in hindsight, I have had apathic periods throughout my life where I was depressed. I did lack iron 4 years ago and had to take supplements, and now again. I am now figuring that I may have had this problem throughout my life, but it was never corrected prior to 4 years ago. If I would have had those test about iron at an early age, I may have had a much better life altogether.

I do think that lots of depressive states are due to chronic lack of something essential in the body.

i do think that thorough check up, real thorough, like the elite may have, would help find out what are the deficiencies and correct it.

Anti depressors are fine on a temporary level, but extremely hard to get rid of once we are on (I took some for 3 years during divorce and while learning about my daughter's handicaps) and let it go afterwards, it took me a whole year to weane myself of it, going slowly. It was still a roller coaster ride.

One thing I do take when depressed is 5HTP (forbidden in England without prescription I think) sold over the counter in America and Canada. It promotes the production of serotonine by the body, without side effects.


I know this is off topic, but if you have elevated red blood cell levels, the symptom would be low iron, because it is necessary to make red blood cells. If your making a lot of red blood cells your iron will be depleted. You didn't state how elevated your red blood cells are but if it is a significant number the real question would be, why are you making too many red blood cells and are those that you are making healthy ones. If you have lots of healthy red blood cells you would have more energy and stamina, not less, that is why athletes dope with Erythropoetin, to make more red blood cells for increased energy and stamina. Taking iron would not give you more energy in itself, it appears to give you more energy because it helps build red blood cells.

[Flash]

Mike, you answered to everybody who posted in your thread except me,

it makes me verrrrryyyy depressed!:p;)

[Mike]

Mike, you answered to everybody who posted in your thread except me,

it makes me verrrrryyyy depressed!:p;)



Mea culpa Flash. Your next bottle of 5htp is on me;)

I know you're joking, but I honestly do try to respond to everyone who takes the time the post on my threads. Sometimes it takes me a while. I'll often circle back to see who or what I may have missed and comment later (confession: i'm a norotious skim reader). Or I'll begin responding and fall asleep with my phone on my chest (like I did last night)

You're absolutely right about the connection between depression and nutrition. I've read stories where someone was at their wits end, and on a whim tried something almost at random, like selenium or something, and turned their whole problem around.

Low energy = low mood. Raise the energy and raise the mood. I've always suspected that energy enhancers like coq10, carnitine, and ribose might make great, all natural anti depressants. Turned out to be true, for me anyway.

But people like my sister, for example, don't respond to any of the herbs or supps I've read about. For a year now, her brain has resisted all my attempts at improvement. She finally relented and tried medication; it helped her tremendously and caused me to rethink my dogmatic approach to pharmaceuticals.

Jordan Peterson's daughter, Mikhaila, was near death with all sorts of ailments (crushing depression, auto immune disease, amongst other things) until she adopted an all beef diet. That sounds sorta nuts, but the answers to these things are often not what we might expect

[Flash]

Actuarian 108 seems to have treated people with depression successfully, going to soul levels.

Maybe should we read his/her book.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104083-Soul-Science-Atheistic-Soul-Theory&p=1245547&viewfull=1#post1245547

[RunningDeer]

Actuarian 108 seems to have treated people with depression successfully, going to soul levels.

Maybe should we read his/her book.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104083-Soul-Science-Atheistic-Soul-Theory&p=1245547&viewfull=1#post1245547
FYI: Arcturian108’s website and her books are listed (in members only (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103761-Arcturian108-My-Energy-Healing-Website-SeraphimBlueprint.org&p=1239932&viewfull=1#post1239932)).

:focus:

[Dennis Leahy]

"The world is a brutal place. Tragedy is ubiquitous. There are endless reasons to be depressed and hopeless. Endless. It's easy to remain that way. You could justify it in all sorts of ways.

It's much more challenging and noble to at least try to be upbeat and positive."

Agreed. If we focus only on the tragedy of life, we live tragedy. But, even that is not the same as clinical depression. I think that mainstream and alternative health experts agree that depression is a brain chemistry issue.

The fact that someone can take a pill (antidepressant) and alter their brain chemistry to a less depressed (or not depressed) mental state is revealing. Other chemicals that alter mental states, for example, alcohol, obviously do not make the proper brain chemistry changes to overcome depression. There have been ongoing trials (and I think I just saw an article mentioning a US trial) using the psilocyben mushroom to overcome depression. From the anecdotal accounts I have read, some people - after a psilocyben 'trip' - completely lost their depression. Others who were active alcoholics lost the craving for alcohol. The effect lasts - for years, at least in some cases, and may even be a permanent change.

I don't know much about it and am not suggesting that anyone and everyone should go find some 'magic mushrooms', trip, and then enjoy great mental health. In a clinical setting, the patient has a therapist as a guide, and I don't know what role they play. (For example, they might be trained to make "suggestions" during the psilocyben experience, knowing that your brain is in a state where suggestion is powerful. Or, maybe they just provide reassurance to the patient, who is experiencing a powerful mind-altering substance. I just don't know what they do.)

You know, if your body is deprived of sufficient water, and you're thirsty, you could use powerful mental or meditative techniques to make yourself believe you are OK, not thirsty. Big Pharma probably has a pill you can take that would make you forget or not notice how thirsty you are. But what you really need is water. The water alters your body's chemistry, provides what was actually needed. It sure sounds like psilocyben doesn't just cause "trippy" feelings, but is somehow making permanent or semi-permanent changes in brain chemistry, resetting the brain to a healthy, non-depressed state. I personally would be more drawn to try that first, before taking pharmaceuticals... forever.

If the real, underlying problem is physical (neurochemistry), it seems like the cure will be physical, not mental, or even spiritual. I don't really know how the pharmaceutical chemicals work, whether they mask unwanted symptoms (seems like that's all that a lot of pharmaceuticals do), or are temporarily altering brain chemistry to 'normal', but they obviously do not make permanent or semi-permanent changes/cures, or you wouldn't have to take them day after day.

As your example with selenium (or whatever it was), there are a number of substances that do play a role with mental health. Magnesium is the first that pops to mind. Zinc and copper, in balance, too. Let's not forget water... and electrolytes.


Some resources for psilocybin therapy for depression:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03380442

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5640601/

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(16)30065-7/fulltext

https://health.spectator.co.uk/psilocybin-reboots-the-brain-and-reduces-symptoms-of-depression/

[Mike]

thanks for that Dennis.

yep we know that some depression is situational and some organic. but i do wonder if long term situational depression can lead to a permanent change in one's organic makeup. or if a slight organic predisposition leaves people vulnerable to situational depression.

for example: if one is unemployed, without friends, without a partner, without life goals, and they take an anti-depressant and feel better, what does that mean exactly? could mean any number of things. perhaps they had organic depression, which prevented them from ever getting off the ground, resulting in all this life chaos; or perhaps they just became slowly situationally depressed over time because they never took responsibility for their life, and before they knew it they were drowning in misery, and as a result of this prolonged misery their brain chemistry changed?

i'm not sure. i'm not an expert. kind of guessing here..

at any rate, i'm a big believer in life strategies, regardless of the situation. things like going to bed at the same time, getting up at the same time, eating properly, articulating very specific goals to oneself...career-wise and personally. in other words, introducing order into one's life. just take the job thing for example - if one doesn't have a job, there's really no reason to get up in the morning, is there?

order and meaning are interchangeable to me. throw responsibility in there too. i know i'm beginning to sound like a military commander or something lol, sorry. but the more responsibility one takes on, the more meaning their lives will have, in my view. many depressed people - the one's ive known anyway - refuse to take on any responsibility, therefore their lives lack meaning and order. chaos takes over and depression is sure to follow.

6c9Uu5eILZ8

[Flash]

thanks for that Dennis.

yep we know that some depression is situational and some organic. but i do wonder if long term situational depression can lead to a permanent change in one's organic makeup. or if a slight organic predisposition leaves people vulnerable to situational depression.

for example: if one is unemployed, without friends, without a partner, without life goals, and they take an anti-depressant and feel better, what does that mean exactly? could mean any number of things. perhaps they had organic depression, which prevented them from ever getting off the ground, resulting in all this life chaos; or perhaps they just became slowly situationally depressed over time because they never took responsibility for their life, and before they knew it they were drowning in misery, and as a result of this prolonged misery their brain chemistry changed?

i'm not sure. i'm not an expert. kind of guessing here..

at any rate, i'm a big believer in life strategies, regardless of the situation. things like going to bed at the same time, getting up at the same time, eating properly, articulating very specific goals to oneself...career-wise and personally. in other words, introducing order into one's life. just take the job thing for example - if one doesn't have a job, there's really no reason to get up in the morning, is there?

order and meaning are interchangeable to me. throw responsibility in there too. i know i'm beginning to sound like a military commander or something lol, sorry. but the more responsibility one takes on, the more meaning their lives will have, in my view. many depressed people - the one's ive known anyway - refuse to take on any responsibility, therefore their lives lack meaning and order. chaos takes over and depression is sure to follow.

6c9Uu5eILZ8

The scientific answer is yes, yes, and yes.

Neuronal pathways will change based on habits old ones, and new ones. If we are situationnaly depressed for years, the brain neuronal pathways will change and increase their strength in the brain areas related to negative emotions. Which means that you will have a greater tendency to think and feel negatively.

Same with training on positive thinking or emotions. With time new neuronal pathways are created reflecting this training.

Children raised in violent households will either become violent (learned behavior through imitation) or victim thinking as victims (learned behavior too). THis is due to changes in their natural neuronal pathways as children when confronting the household violence, it does change the brain pathways, and therefore chemistry.

How do I know? I studied it (university) and re-studied it later to enhance my daughter's abilities because of her language and motor skills handicaps - everything I did with her as treatment was geared towards enhancing the rights neuronal pathways or creating new ones if they were absent. It worked, she is almost fine now. You would never guess she was quite handicap.

Same with longstanding depression or long standing situational depression, it create changes in the brain. This is now why therapies and medication is readily suggested, so that those depression pathways are not being created to start with, to avoid a life of misery.

Heavy sport will enhance serotonine, 5 HTP will enhance it too, and taking the habit of positive thinking, even taking the habit to smile will change the brain.

------------------------------

By the way Dennis, yes magic mushrooms literally improves and often eliminates depression - researchers do not know why yet, but they did notice a statistically significant improvement.

I would not mind tripping next time i feel depressed........:bigsmile:

[Innocent Warrior]

For anyone with Netflix, this documentary follows the journey of a man battling depression who was losing the will to live and went to the Amazon to be treated by shamans as a last ditch effort to save his life. The last shaman who treated him is absolutely beautiful and his treatment with the plants and earth was intense.

This will be a powerful documentary for anyone who can relate to James. If you can relate and you’re still breathing you’re doing amazing. :flower:

RJC1HC3C1hc

I’m paraphrasing but Eckhart Tolle said if you want to kill yourself then kill your ego instead, he also said the secret to life is to die before you die. It’s hardcore to actually do that but it’s true and once you get through it you can look back on the depression as a gift, since without it you would never have been forced to experience such a profound transformation. Just never give up and you’ll make it, however long it takes it will be worth it.

[what is a name?]

The more Westernized/capitalized a country is, the higher the depression rates - do you think this is coincidence?

The more Westernized/capitalized a country is, the more electronic components are used - do you think this is coincidence?

And the list could go on and on, and then add what other dimensions put into the melting pot and it's no surprise that our caged minds/bodies are rattled to the point of implosion - no coincidence eh? A happy human population is not desired in any shape or form.

But when groups come together and discuss, the energetics involved find a way to start dissolving the the bars of fear of the caged mind/body.

The old adage of a problem shared is a problem halved seems to have substance.

Thank you Mike for assisting everyones 'bars' to dissolve even more!

[Caliban]

The more Westernized/capitalized a country is, the higher the depression rates - do you think this is coincidence?

The more Westernized/capitalized a country is, the more electronic components are used - do you think this is coincidence?

And the list could go on and on, and then add what other dimensions put into the melting pot and it's no surprise that our caged minds/bodies are rattled to the point of implosion - no coincidence eh? A happy human population is not desired in any shape or form.

I want to put this out there even though I know many of us are wary of "channeled messages." But these thoughts are only partially channeled.

The other day I was thinking -- "Could negative subliminals be coming over the internet like they did (do?) with Television? Then yesterday I'm in a Barnes & Noble and leafing through an issue of Sedona, Journal of Emergence. I come across a message from "Grandfather," channeled by Robert Shapiro. The general gist of it is:

"We want to warn people of something. It will be difficult to explain it because we feel it is a resonance that influences in portions; nothing happens all at once, but it creates a cumulative effect. We believe this is happening largely over the internet, and it is being affected to a slight degree by news and some forms of popular music ... Primarily, 80 percent of the influence is coming through various forms of internet stimulus. Again, this is happening in bits and pieces but seems to accrue in the subconscious mind. For some reason, some people are susceptible to this. Tones might have something to do with it ... The reason we're being vague is it is not the same thing for everyone. The problem is that it usually results in the same thing, which is suicide. This is particularly appalling because most of these people would not perform this act otherwise."

Then the message offers a suggestion, "if you cannot cut down use, then try this benevolent magic. First, say, 'I am asking that all the most benevolent energies available for me be all around me and all about me now.' You will probably feel energy come up. When it levels off, you can say, 'I request that all forms of interference, including subliminal, particularly those, and internet, WiFi, and other forms of stimulation through music, sounds, tones, and other things that are causing harm in a cumulative way for some individuals now be neutralized so that they are benign to all beings, resulting in the most benevolent outcome.' "

It did feel synchronistic having the thoughts I had and then reading that. We really don't know what's coming through these machines do we? No fear, just awareness.

[Shadowself]

Sorry Mike to hear you're going through depression. It's tough...as I know all too well.

Hang in there my friend...lot's of people here care very much about you and you can see this through.

There is a physical aspect to depression...it hurts physically. I know this too. When I have bouts of it now I notice my pain levels rise as well.

I'm also quite aware of masking it...I've been doing that for awhile now. It's just under the surface and from time to time it rears it head and comes out....spills all over the floor and I end of having to clean it up while enduring consistent crying jags....that is metaphorically speaking of course except for the crying jags.

I think once you get a handle on it most of that goes away. I also don't think it leave a permanent scar on anything except the memory of it which can be dealt with.

Whatever you choose and that is up to you to work it out, I wish you the best and have faith you can work it out.

:heart:

[RunningDeer]

I want to put this out there even though I know many of us are wary of "channeled messages." But these thoughts are only partially channeled.

The other day I was thinking -- "Could negative subliminals be coming over the internet like they did (do?) with Television?
Several years ago, I stopped watching videos that advertise how to raise your vibration, your frequency and all the new age/philosophy propaganda vids/sites.


Few Examples
https://i.imgur.com/kW7aJ3H.jpg


Around that time I discovered the video below of how easy it is to manipulate another. Since then we’ve learned how much technology is used to alter us in a sundry of ways. Personal responsibility in behavioral changes helps me to fine tune cognition and consciousness. If I’m not aware enough to see the ways in which I hold myself hostage in mind games then how can I ward-off out side influences?

As my good friend use to say: Knowin’ ain’t doin’.


http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/images/space-bar-grey.jpg
Repost:

There are videos and website designed to entrain or worse. Below is a an eye opening confirmation about embedded subliminal messages. As soon as I watch/listen to some YouTube vid, I get a headache or a distinct sensation in the third eye. They're mostly but not limited to the New Age and the relaxation videos. Some make it onto the forum.

@ 56 (https://youtu.be/YG2cY7WGvHs?t=56s) - This husband made a subliminal message to program his wife.




“My wife doesn’t like to cook. We eat out a lot and I’m sick of it. Boy, wouldn’t this be great if I could get her to cook dinner and stay at home.” “…I put my final mp3 into her background screensaver so every day she’s hearing that play a few times a day…”




Subliminal Message - How to make a Subliminal Message - 7 minutes
YG2cY7WGvHs

Uploaded on Jan 23, 2009

Learn how to make a subliminal message cd or mp3. Fast easy way to create a subliminal message using subliminal message software. Subliminal messages are hidden messages in background music.

[onawah]

I have a lot of respect for Chinese medicine. They have herbal formulas for depression and a vast array of other ailments which really work--it's just a matter of finding the right one.

[onawah]

PS I have a friend who is taking this one for depression and she said it really works:https://shop.supremenutritionproducts.com/albizia-supreme/

[Mike]

Yep thanks for all that Paula!:flower:

Personal responsibility and behavioral changes.....ah I love hearing that. Perhaps one can raise vibration thru some new agey practices, but your suggestion has much more staying power and longevity I'm sure.

You got me thinking about other techy things that mess with mood, and I think one of them may be lighting. Granted, I haven't looked into this too closely, but there is quite a bit of info out there on the dangers of the newer fluorescent bulbs, which have phased out what seems to be the much more harmless incandescent bulbs (I'm sure there's a thread on that here somewhere). There have been all sorts of links with fluorescent bulbs and depression, migraines etc.

So we're battling quite a bit, between subliminals, lighting, contaminated food, water, Wi-Fi, chemtrails.......the list goes on and on

[RunningDeer]

deleted :offtopic:

[onawah]

Seasonal Affective Disorder creates depression in people who don't get enough sunlight, but there have been studies which show that Full Spectrum light helps with that, and it's good for plants as well.
Dr. Mercola's website used to sell CFL Full Spectrum bulbs and I've bought them for years and use them in all my fixtures, both for myself and my jungle of house plants.
He doesn't sell them anymore because they weren't a big seller, but you can still get them online, and you can still read a good article about them here: https://products.mercola.com/light-bulbs/
People think because they are CFLs, they have all the same problems as regular CFLs, but they don't.
Carmody even checked them out and gave them his stamp of approval.
I'm going to be shopping online soon for some new ones, and will post on here about that then.
I may call Dr. Mercola's hotline and see if I can find out who the manufacturer was of the bulbs he used to carry.
Some good threads about lighting:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94040-Blue-hazard-LED-lighting-may-compromise-your-vision-and-health&highlight=full+spectrum+light+bulbs
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72721-Smart-Lights-New-LEDs-Allow-NSA-to-Spy-on-Your-Every-Movement&p=850258&highlight=full+spectrum+light+bulbs#post850258
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66601-US-Government-Forced-Light-Bulb-Switch&highlight=full+spectrum+light+bulbs
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?61092-Spiral-energy-saver-bulbs-and-your-gifts..&p=701617&highlight=full+spectrum+light+bulbs#post701617

[Hym]

Not wanting to derail any of the insightful and very helpful posts from other members here I held off on my first impression of responding to you Mike, as I highly respect and learn from so many of the insights here. I sometimes just like to listen and learn. I didn't want the thread to be just a simple uplifting 'you're more than okay with me, brother', Which You Are.

However, it is still easy to say that you're doing quite well Mike. Your recognition and detail of the continued outer negativity you've gone thru is a healing that is the demarkation point between a very unhealthy life with a disturbed mate, been there...a whole family of 'been there', and a life open to your own empowerment and deserving. Some things just can't be hidden, like the cool you are and the necessary balance of good and wicked humor from you we enjoy here.

We don't see depression in isolation because it has many components in it's makeup. It's the same condition us lucky ones have been gifted with thru with most everything we are living in today. A lot of it is depressing and it is engineered that way, an engineering of choice from those who can. I see the depths of all those years of manipulating humanity and I remind myself of how valuable we all must be to require so much attention and valuable,wasted energies.

What we sometimes forget, and the thing so gemlike about this forum, is that we are still able to create, to engineer our own health and our surroundings. Here we remind each other to start by taking good care of ourselves. Our thoughts, our food, our time in nature. Our healthy friends, challenging us to let go and to have some humor to balance it all out. In some ways we've asked for it as the challenge we are accustomed to as souls, meant to transcend all of this. Despite all of that, surely meant to depress the F out of you, we step up and yell out our discontent....and our friends walk by and pick us up.


Nutrition and Mental Health:
Years ago I heard about a mental health facility in Germany that had it's patients take raw onions into their daily diet. The subjects showed great signs of improvement in their respective conditions. The same goes with regularly including eating foods that have high B vitamin content like Niacinamide (B-3) as well as other vitamins like C, minerals, herbs, etc. Often balancing good, HDL, fats with proteins gives added, clear focus.

I've always seen nutrition as a key component in improving general mood and maintaining mental health. When we experience the influence of simple, strong and balanced eating upon our well being, a lot of judgmental issues, especially concerning ourselves, dissolve. Sometimes it is that simple.
The condition of our bodies blood sugar balance also plays a vital part in maintaining a balanced mental approach.

Depression is a also a drug.
It's good to prompt people to express their feelings, because the negativity, the depression and it's control usually cannot be changed until it is exposed to the light of our own consciousness, shared with the outside world or transformed by getting in with nature. Consistency in being physically active is amazing for mental health. For sure, physical activity makes a huge difference as long as it is not obsessive, which is okay for short periods, but not for long stretches. Shooting up the endorphins, in what is called a 'natural' way is sometimes necessary but it does have it's limits. A slow drip is healthy as F and more sustainable, even in sustaining our F's.

I do, and have for a while, step the F up and change the subject when I'm around any situation that perpetuates negativity without giving an insight or a solution to change it. The measure of the worth of doing so, either yes or no, is how attached the ego is to the expression of the negative. Do they want you to help or do they want to share in the guilt and pain, only to be overcome by their shared demons. It's the lingering effects of the dark life we all learn how to change with our thoughts, even a deep breath, often just getting up and walking around.

Interesting that subliminal messaging is mentioned. With that knowledge I turned off the sound and turned on the closed captioning part of the video and then read how to technically make a subliminal message. I trust that the person making the video may have thought it a good idea to embed a SubMess into the video, even if just for Sh#t's and Giggles.

We've been in the EMF/RF soup for a while now. The oddest thing is that there are very few good, if any, helpful souls with the ability to covertly add any positive words, that support healthy thinking, into any messages we receive. After all, it's just another tool that can grow health or a tool that can be weaponized. (It's the same thing I've wondered about for decades why the same ones aren't spraying herbs and vitamins into our atmosphere instead of the aluminum, barium and strontium, etc...they spray in the geo-engineering process. I even jokingly asked Cliff Carnicom years ago, at the end of one of his presentations, why that was not so. Half of a smile, but not much time for laughter then.) Oh, yeah....that's right... good folks tell you what you're gettin' in your dinner, even when it's a tasty spice you've added.

[Flash]

Seasonal Affective Disorder creates depression in people who don't get enough sunlight, but there have been studies which show that Full Spectrum light helps with that, and it's good for plants as well.
Dr. Mercola's website used to sell CFL Full Spectrum bulbs and I've bought them for years and use them in all my fixtures, both for myself and my jungle of house plants.
He doesn't sell them anymore because they weren't a big seller, but you can still get them online, and you can still read a good article about them here: https://products.mercola.com/light-bulbs/
People think because they are CFLs, they have all the same problems as regular CFLs, but they don't.
Carmody even checked them out and gave them his stamp of approval.
I'm going to be shopping online soon for some new ones, and will post on here about that then.
I may call Dr. Mercola's hotline and see if I can find out who the manufacturer was of the bulbs he used to carry.
Some good threads about lighting:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94040-Blue-hazard-LED-lighting-may-compromise-your-vision-and-health&highlight=full+spectrum+light+bulbs
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72721-Smart-Lights-New-LEDs-Allow-NSA-to-Spy-on-Your-Every-Movement&p=850258&highlight=full+spectrum+light+bulbs#post850258
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66601-US-Government-Forced-Light-Bulb-Switch&highlight=full+spectrum+light+bulbs
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?61092-Spiral-energy-saver-bulbs-and-your-gifts..&p=701617&highlight=full+spectrum+light+bulbs#post701617

light therapy may be good for seasonal depression, however, I had congenital catarats in both eyes and had catarat surgery at 45. Believe it or not, after the surgery, no need for CFL and no seasonal depression.

Light has a lot to do with depression and also eyes health. IMO

[onawah]

Part of the reason for the lingering depression that I felt after my release from suicidal tendencies had to do with my theories about spirituality.
I thought that I had to constantly monitor myself and remain identified only with the Light, denying my own Shadow.
But that kept me in a constant battle with myself, since the Shadow side must be brought into the open and accepted in order to be understood and to evolve.
I was also in denial about how much I doubted, how my faith wasn't really grounded in reality, and was therefore quite shaky.
I couldn't believe that God was Love with all the horrors that I saw in the world.
So I stopped believing in that God and started believing in the Creator, who created both Darkness and Light, and tried to learn to accept that, and to continue working toward evolving more toward the Light, without constantly trying to deny that my dark side had any value or relevance.
After all, Creator was responsible for the Darkness as well as the Light, and we are stuck with it, no matter how much we would like not to identify with it....
But I think we learn to become stronger through our experience of the dark side. and if it has value, then it is that, and I've learned to appreciate it.


updateJust wanted to add this image and quote:"We will become our opposite if we do not learn to accommodate the opposition within us." Carl Jung
[Image: Solve Sundo]
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTB0F6xpxiyVTIbL1X6BZ3f6VSNUGT0te2fo8srwF2BCTNh_AzT

Also to add that some years ago I read an interview with a beautiful black supermodel who had moved to the West from Somalia when she was a young girl, been "discovered" and became part of the world of fashion. It left a lasting impression on me. She recalled very well growing up in a poor, nomadic, sheep herding tribe in Somalia, living mostly outdoors, close to Nature and the animals. She said that her people were so happy compared to the all the well-off, successful "beautiful people" that she met in the West, and most of the other ordinary Westerners that she encountered in her new life as well. She went back home after her success and still felt the same way, and that she had not imagined that happiness just because she had been a child when she last encountered it. Of course, there could be many reasons for such a marked difference, but I think that our lost connection to Nature and the other remarkable lifeforms that cohabit this planet with us is responsible for much of the unhappiness of those of us who live with so more much complexity and the resulting stress.

[Dennis Leahy]

Should be on the "required reading" list for Avalon members: John Ott: "Health and Light" https://www.amazon.com/Health-Light-extraordinary-Affects-emotional/dp/0898040981

(Obviously, you can buy the book elsewhere too, like $6 on ebay.)

John Ott's story (John discovered much about light and health, and invented the full-spectrum light bulb because of it.)


"Synopsis:
The story of John Ott's discovery of the role light plays in sustaining physical health is one of the true scientific breakthroughs of the last quarter century. It is the story of an observant, intelligent man who acted upon his observations and then supported them with scientific experimentation. The importance of light has long been known esoterically, but it has largely been ignored by science. Health and Light has led many people to a greater understanding of the subtle role light plays -- both constructively and destructively -- in maintaining physical and emotional health. Health and Light also reveals the rigidity with which established science greets new breakthroughs."

[onawah]

See:Colbeck cites health as reason to slow 5G rush
hkDDQqDVsbk
Technology is making us depressed, especially cell phone tech, but 5G is even worse.
(Also posted here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100537-Stop-5G-before-it-s-irreversible-&p=1245766&viewfull=1#post1245766)

[RunningDeer]

See:Colbeck cites health as reason to slow 5G rush

hkDDQqDVsbk
Technology is making us depressed, especially cell phone tech, but 5G is even worse.
(Also posted here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100537-Stop-5G-before-it-s-irreversible-&p=1245766&viewfull=1#post1245766)
Transcribed:

We all are fully immersed in the so-called Internet of Things: computers, phones, vehicles, TVs and even refrigerators, and toasters are now connected to the internet. The benefits of our connected universe are potentially very significant. Unfortunately there is an increasing body of evidence that suggests that the health risks are very significant as well.

Now, I don't bring this concern to you lightly. I’m a techie at heart. I've been an early adopter of technology ever since I was knee-high to a grasshopper. And I was one of the first internet based telecommuters during my work virtuality training systems for Department of Defense. I boldly go where many have not gone before as an aerospace engineer designing systems for the International Space Station.

In other words, it would be extremely difficult for anyone to make the case that I'm an advocate of returning to the days when we bang rock together to make fire. Having said that, I have serious concerns regarding evidence of adverse health impacts due to a specific class of technology wonders, wireless transmitters, especially high-frequency, high-power wireless transmitters. The most ubiquitous examples of wireless technology, our cellphones, Wi-Fi routers and smart meters. This technology is found in our homes. our workplaces, hospitals and in our schools.

For techies such as myself, it provides unparalleled convenience by connecting a growing number of devices to the Internet of Things. However it is becoming increasingly evident that this convenience comes at a price and it comes at a price to the health of many of our citizens. Most notably children, babies in the womb, and even adults who suffer from hypersensitivity to wireless transmissions.

A few weeks ago, I distributed sample data to each of you from scientific studies of the effects of radio frequency emissions compiled by bioinitiatives.org that highlight the adverse health effects of various profiles of wireless transmissions. The adverse health effects identified by these studies are VERY serious. These effects include: cancer, neurological problems, immune system disorders and reproductive harm. It has been demonstrated that radio frequency radiation can have adverse impacts at the cellular level including harmful mutations of human DNA. Most alarming of all is that children are most vulnerable to these adverse impacts including children in the womb of pregnant mothers.

It is for this reason that Wi-Fi in schools represents a particularly significant health risk; not just for students but also for pregnant teachers. Classrooms can have as many of as one transmitter for every 10 students. Countries such as France and Israel have responded to these health concerns by passing laws restricting the use of Wi-Fi in schools.

Yesterday this body passed a suite of bills designed to protect Michigan's children. Today we’re proposing to do the exact opposite and put our children at increased risk. We are now discussing the deployment of 5G networks throughout our state.

5G networks operate in the 24 to 90 gigahertz spectrum. This is a MUCH higher frequency than the current 2.4 gigahertz or 5 gigahertz frequencies found in current Wi-Fi networks. High frequency transmissions don’t travel well through solid objects, so 5G will likely require one transmitter for every 2 to 10 homes. This is a much higher density than current cell tower distribution which have already been Associated with significant health care risks.

This legislation makes matters worse. Under these bills local units of government are prohibited from enacting ordinances that would provide safe havens for citizens with sensitivity to high frequency radio frequency emissions. In the wake of the 1996 Federal Telecom Act the FCC. not the Center for Disease Control is responsible for regulating human exposure standards. The FCC has established maximum power density thresholds for radio frequency emissions in the 24 to 90 Giga spectrum of 5G networks as 5mm watts per square centimeter.

This exposure threshold is based upon thermal concerns analogous to microwave cooking but have yet to be defined on the basis of non thermal concerns. Ionizing radiation has been proven to disrupt the basic cell functions that well below the thermal threshold promoted by the FCC. As a result, any concerns about radiation exposure are routinely greeted with the words: emissions are well within FCC guidelines.

The issue is that these guidelines indicate acceptable radiation levels which are orders of magnitude above what has been demonstrated as safe when non-thermal effects are considered. The FCC guidelines are clearly insufficient. Now many of us are rightly concerned about the hazards of cigarettes, lead levels, PFOS levels, and other harmful substances in our environment, but I regret to inform you that we need to add electromagnetic radiation from wireless technology to this list.

In light of the policy and issues before our body and our representatives in DC that would put our current current wireless infrastructure on steroids. It is critically important that we evaluate the non-thermal health impacts of this technology before we invest billions of dollars on these systems.

Article 4, Section 51 of the Michigan Constitution states that: the public health and general welfare of the people of the state are hereby declared to be matters of primary public concern. The legislature shall pass suitable laws for protection and promotion of public health.

Despite the convenience and the enormous economic growth potential associated with the Internet of Things, our primary concern as legislators is not convenience nor economic growth. As much as I love technology per our Michigan Constitution, the public health and general welfare the people the state are supposed to be our primary concern.

In this light, we need to proceed with caution before we fully immerse our citizens in the Internet of Things. I urge my colleagues to vote no on Senate Bill 637 and 894 and I'd like my remarks the journal please.

[hermit]

By the way Dennis, yes magic mushrooms literally improves and often eliminates depression - researchers do not know why yet, but they did notice a statistically significant improvement.

I would not mind tripping next time i feel depressed........:bigsmile:


I actually have a theory about that!

In my case, the depression I was experience was so great that it became debilitating. The only thing that pulled me out of it was being confronted with a very good logical argument, the solution of which I knew was wrong, even though the argument was sound.

Three days later, I'd re-programmed my brain without realizing I'd done it. I suspect that the mushrooms probably do something similar, sweeping out present chemistry and hard-track re-wiring pathways.


Personally, I prefer the philosophical method? :D I've seen and experienced how some people react negatively to medications. It's not the treatments per say, it's trying to self regulate to get some "emotions" back into their lives. And when you play with anti-psychotics....it's not a good scene.


-start a discipline of some form of contemplative meditation. Zazen is perfect. Centering Prayer also good.

-start a regular regime of physical activity. Movement is critical to shifting brain chemistry. A quick run does wonders for me, it could for you as well.


-pay attention to your diet and intake. Narcotics? Sugars? Anything wild? Or mild? Move things out of your diet for a time and see if it helps/hurts.


-the hardest one for me to accept was that it was OK to be depressed. Even though the pain was horrible for me, and there were days where I would be so sad that I would just cry, somehow accepting the current position I was in helped. I just asked the Universe to let that suffering I was undergoing be linked to someone else I knew who was in agony, and try to let my own suffering be a way of lifting some of the burden of another's suffering.


And... I will pray for you. :)

[Flash]

Hermit, I am not depressed at all. Although I have been in my life, actually my moods are quite good, despite not working much, despite having very low iron, And despite some other problems I probably can solve, truly I am doing good

There is no comparison between my today life versus the past.

My daughter almost completely recuperated from an handicap and is now thinking bachelor degree after her technical college which I never thought she would achieve, I stopped working 60-70 hours a week as a single mom to put food on the table and pay alternative therapies, and financially I am not rich but we can feed ourselves and pay the bills. And.. I just put another jerk out of my life.

I am truly doing fine

But if you want to pray for me, you are welcome, i need to put my physical health back on track, lose weight, take iron supplements, etc. Which I am slowly doing.

you are talking to someone here who, in her life, went through pure hell and back. Gosh am I happy to be on the back side!!

When I talk about depression, I talk about my past, how I overcame it, what I studied and learned about it and I love studying the brain, so... may be we can all benefit?!

And I agree with what you wrote, your theory is sound.

[petra]

..... they haven't tried everything. they haven't tried medication, for example. no way, i'm not doing that sh!t, they'll say. i wouldn't want to take medication either, but it's better than being dead. this isn't an advert for the pharmaceutical industry btw, but when you hit absolute rock bottom, why on earth wouldn't you at least try??? Within a month you'll know if it's working for you or not. likely sooner. I'm not being glib when i say to them, at least try this for crying out loud..you can always kill yourself later...


Oh Mike... you're killing me with laughter RIGHT NOW!!!

Thanks a lot for sharing your experiences, I've had quote a few bouts of depression, but not as bad as some I have witnessed.
I've also been on the "bitch girlfriend" side of things...
At the time, I didn't even realize what I was doing. I was manipulating without even realizing it, out of instinct, as if it were some kind of reflex. But I have since realized, hurting others will only hurt yourself, in the long run. And now I watch out for that :)

[hermit]

Hermit, I am not depressed at all. Although I have been in my life, actually my moods are quite good, despite not working much, despite having very low iron, And despite some other problems I probably can solve, truly I am doing good

There is no comparison between my today life versus the past.

My daughter almost completely recuperated from an handicap and is now thinking bachelor degree after her technical college which I never thought she would achieve, I stopped working 60-70 hours a week as a single mom to put food on the table and pay alternative therapies, and financially I am not rich but we can feed ourselves and pay the bills. And.. I just put another jerk out of my life.

I am truly doing fine

But if you want to pray for me, you are welcome, i need to put my physical health back on track, lose weight, take iron supplements, etc. Which I am slowly doing.

you are talking to someone here who, in her life, went through pure hell and back. Gosh am I happy to be on the back side!!

When I talk about depression, I talk about my past, how I overcame it, what I studied and learned about it and I love studying the brain, so... may be we can all benefit?!

And I agree with what you wrote, your theory is sound.

(The post I wrote was directed to Mike...sorry for the overlap within the post, I will endeavour to be more mindful in the future.) ;)

[lightwalker]

Rick Hanson's book Hardwiring Happines has good reviews. I combine his brain science activities with holding the meridian points (EFT) on my person. His explanations in the book are really helpful on understanding how the brain works, how we are hardwired for negativity, and how to change the brain.

Good thread. Thanks for all the info here.

btw this modality has helped tremendously with my own personal challenges.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpuDyGgIeh0[/URL]

[Hazelfern]

Hermit, I am not depressed at all. Although I have been in my life, actually my moods are quite good, despite not working much, despite having very low iron, And despite some other problems I probably can solve, truly I am doing good

There is no comparison between my today life versus the past.

My daughter almost completely recuperated from an handicap and is now thinking bachelor degree after her technical college which I never thought she would achieve, I stopped working 60-70 hours a week as a single mom to put food on the table and pay alternative therapies, and financially I am not rich but we can feed ourselves and pay the bills. And.. I just put another jerk out of my life.

I am truly doing fine

But if you want to pray for me, you are welcome, i need to put my physical health back on track, lose weight, take iron supplements, etc. Which I am slowly doing.

you are talking to someone here who, in her life, went through pure hell and back. Gosh am I happy to be on the back side!!

When I talk about depression, I talk about my past, how I overcame it, what I studied and learned about it and I love studying the brain, so... may be we can all benefit?!

And I agree with what you wrote, your theory is sound.

(The post I wrote was directed to Mike...sorry for the overlap within the post, I will endeavor to be more mindful in the future.) ;)

Not necessary although your words are appreciated. You endeavor quite enough.

[Gemma13]

Mike, you answered to everybody who posted in your thread except me,

it makes me verrrrryyyy depressed!:p;)

Mea culpa Flash. Your next bottle of 5htp is on me;)

I know you're joking, but I honestly do try to respond to everyone who takes the time the post on my threads. Sometimes it takes me a while. I'll often circle back to see who or what I may have missed and comment later (confession: i'm a norotious skim reader). Or I'll begin responding and fall asleep with my phone on my chest (like I did last night)

You're absolutely right about the connection between depression and nutrition. I've read stories where someone was at their wits end, and on a whim tried something almost at random, like selenium or something, and turned their whole problem around.

Low energy = low mood. Raise the energy and raise the mood. I've always suspected that energy enhancers like coq10, carnitine, and ribose might make great, all natural anti depressants. Turned out to be true, for me anyway.

But people like my sister, for example, don't respond to any of the herbs or supps I've read about. For a year now, her brain has resisted all my attempts at improvement. She finally relented and tried medication; it helped her tremendously and caused me to rethink my dogmatic approach to pharmaceuticals.

Jordan Peterson's daughter, Mikhaila, was near death with all sorts of ailments (crushing depression, auto immune disease, amongst other things) until she adopted an all beef diet. That sounds sorta nuts, but the answers to these things are often not what we might expect.
A week ago I stumbled across a written conversation I had years ago. I was told, "You've often heard today is a good day to die. Wake up one morning, raise your arms up, and say, today is a good day to live". Up until a few days ago I'd never been inspired to try it.

Then Abba hit this forum, I felt utter joy, cried, couldn't sleep much for days and knew instantly, it was time to do this very simple gesture.

I saw the profound purpose and power of music with all its mystical encoding and how it converts from the heart. I was able to internally see and direct streams of love emanating from my heart centre, just by internally humming an Abba tune, whenever I wanted.

I know the science is there, but I've never felt meditation was ever really working for me. Either on myself, for others, or the world. Until now.

So I do agree, one size does not fit all. It really is a matter of finding our own unique sovereign facilitator that works to lift oneself into those powerfully higher vibrations where depression can't reach.

I'd never even considered there could be anything "outside the box" of the common approaches in both mainstream and alternative. I wish I had. Might have found my trigger a long time ago.

So when all else fails, try everything else.

[TargeT]

The world is a brutal place. Tragedy is ubiquitous. There are endless reasons to be depressed and hopeless. Endless. It's easy to remain that way. You could justify it in all sorts of ways.

It's much more challenging and noble to at least try to be upbeat and positive. In fact, one doesn't have a choice . In the face of impossible, trying to remain positive is the most challenging and noble thing one can do. That's not phoniness....it's the only game in town. You may think to yourself, it can't get any worse than this so why even try., But I assure you, it can get worse. Neglecting to try means the difference between mere tragedy and absolute hell...........

I was too busy indulging this depression. And that's an enormous mistake, with unforgiving ramifications.


Your singing my song, except I'm still working with my... teacher? and learning more than I'm comfortable too (but what challenge is comfortable?). I find aspects of our situations very fascinating, though we are deeply divided by experiential differences (context); I do think we share an archetypal struggle.


the sign wave of life is fascinating.... ups need downs and visa versa..

I stopped taking hormones about a year ago... it's been very negatively impactful.... but at least this time I think I know of a solution.



"It's strange these brief and fleeting things
these first impressions are ever lasting
the wondering path we'll stumble down
the bridges we burnt, only known in passing"

[JackMcThorn]

'Action,' I was told [about 1o years ago], 'Alleviates Anxiety'. [Anxiety holds hands with Depression.]

Early in my manic-depressive diagnosis, around 2oo9; I was more susceptible to mania than depression. So I didn't pay too much attention to the depressive side of things, because they simply were not part of the issue. [But I never forgot the above quote.]

Now in my middle 4o's, there is less psychosis and more depression. With a bipolar diagnosis, where mania is a real concern there is no 'treatment' via medication for depression because the opportunity to lift one's mood too high becomes a risk for more psychosis or more manic episodes; which anyone with first-hand experience will tell you is not worth the trouble.

So what happens when depression strikes? With the danger of psychosis, big pharma cannot compete in this arena with Bipolar type 1 disorder. Doctor's have their hands tied. 'You just have to ride it out.' [the depressive episodes].

I came across this book Lost Connections / Why You're Depressed and How to Find Hope by Johann Hari

This book basically shuts down the 'chemical imbalance' narrative; which is mostly pushed by big pharma and the 1oo billion dollar medicine industry.

It covers biology, psychology, and social [environmental] factors that instigate depression and that chemicals [while sometimes effective, or marginally] are not the only answer.

The book reiterates for me the importance of action, of movement, of doing; in order to maintain healthier moods. It is well researched and published in 2o18, so fairly recent. It covers some studies dating back to the 197o's that were not prevailing due to the drowning out of particular big pharma studies. They explain what the industry was doing to back it's products with short-sighted and specifically targeted studies for particular medicines.

Action is the key word for health and for other issues as well.

[edina]

Thanks Jack, for sharing this. The bipolar brain can be quite a challenge to live with.

Here's a link to the book for anyone who would want to read it for themselves.

Lost Connections / Why You're Depressed and How to Find Hope (https://u1lib.org/book/5922291/525e9a)

There's a physics theory out there that says the universe is essentially motion, movement, the state of FLOW comes to mind.
The adage that Action is the key word for health seems to echo that idea.

A similar adage comes to mind, Competence build confidence.
It was a game changer for me, in my 20's, when I discovered that anyone can build skills.
And almost everything can be learned by incrementally increasing the skills needed to learn.

As Joseph Chilton Pearce said, "We are becoming that in which we need ourselves to be."

Happy Day to you, Jack

Thanks again for sharing.

[Gwin Ru]

...

... Sherrie describes how she eradicated her deep depression with John Mace's Energy Method AKA "Causism":

Getting Disruptive things in your mind you don't know about out - Sherrie Hatfield interview 1 11 22 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSSGFa3sLp0) 1:21:30

Jan 15, 2022

https://yt3.ggpht.com/ytc/AKedOLSzOxHx5p2YsiPQDdEVS5LKlt8jFJYpvjCuMIYJ=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBNoxH3e_xoufUo4MTVJ2XQ) Engineering Mental Sanity - Jerry Marzinsky (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBNoxH3e_xoufUo4MTVJ2XQ)

A major problem facing the human race has been how to clear trauma that lurks buried in the unconscious which when triggered repeatedly sets off an adverse and dysfunctional behavioral reaction. Unable to recognize the hidden powder keg in our own mind we project blame for our reaction on whoever had the gall to throw a match into the powder keg, the person who pissed you off. We don't know where the powder keg is located or how to get rid of it but we do recognize the type of person who sets us off.

No matter where you go this same type person follows to eventually throw another match into your powder keg and it goes on and on sometimes for a lifetime.

Psychiatry handles these upsets by selling you expensive drugs that numb the mind and may calm your nerves but cures absolutely nothing. Although highly trained traditional psychotherapists may identify these powder kegs and point out the irrational behavior resulting from them they have not come up with an efficient way to remove this buried alive subconscious garbage which drives repeated self defeating and irrational reactions.

Then along comes John Mace a ship captain and self educated genius who unfettered by the psychological establishments brain washing comes up with a very different and functional concept of how the human mind works based on his own observations, study and experimentation. The functionality of his concept is backed by the startling results in clearing buried trauma. Although Mace's system is quick, simple, and effective but it is a threat to the psychological and psychiatric establishments who have turned their backs on Mace despite having witnessed the effectiveness of this system.

Sherrie Hatfield is a Mace Energy Method practitioner in Australia. She explains what Causism is and what it does for living conscious beings. She talks about her personal journey and how she met John Mace, who discovered Causism, who is now in his 90s. She says you already are what you seek. The mind is a storehouse. It keeps data and pictures (images) of whatever you focus on, which is a natural process. But is it real? "Identity" is the role we play in life (positive and negative), but you are not your role. You are more, much more.

dSSGFa3sLp0



https://www.causisminstitute.com/resources/book/

[DNA]

Hey Mike,
I applaud your appreciation of humor to combat depression--I think it's one of the best tools we have.
( And so I refer you to my post here if you haven't already seen it: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103848-The-malaise---Can-anyone-relate&p=1244904&viewfull=1#post1244904
...as I think you will appreciate it. )
I had three siblings who committed suicide, and my mother attempted it when I was 9 ( I was the one who found her and called a neighbor for assistance, who rang for an ambulance. They pumped her stomach and she survived, but of course, being a child, I blamed myself for making her life unbearable.)
So depression was rampant in my family.
A huge personal koan was finally solved when I learned from psychics that suicide prone people often reincarnate into the same families or groups to act as mirrors for each other.
Later, I learned from a wonderful shaman that suicides in generations of families can create a kind of entity which gets passed down from sibling to sibling and incorporates all that self-hating destructive energy into one big wallop of negative energy.
When the last of my 3 siblings offed himself, I inherited that family entity, and so suddenly, inexplicably, I became suicidal.
It wasn't really even depression that I came down with, it was pure self-loathing so dense that the prospect of creating even more suffering for myself through self-destruction actually gave me a very twisted feeling of satisfaction.
It was very weird, and I knew it was being caused by something other than myself, because I had been possessed by a demonic entity that came through my alcoholic father when I was about 3 years old, and it was similar.
I fought with that demon until I was in my late 20s, and finally overcame it with the help of a spiritual healer.
But the suicide entity was more than I could handle-- I think I was just too tired.
I tried to hang myself, but got busted before I could go through with it, then tried to slash my wrists and failed at that too ( too cowardly).
Oddly, the day after that second failure, I was fine.
I think maybe the fact that I didn't resist that energy allowed me to dissipate it with all my dramatic shenanigans!
The shaman I met years later told me that there are many souls now on the planet who are working to break the suicidal patterns that have been passed down through generations of families, and that I was one of those souls.
Tibetan Lama Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche wrote in one of his books-I think it was Meditation in Action--that it is actually when we have exhausted ourselves through struggle that we finally catch a glimpse of what acceptance and surrender really are.
Part of the reason for the lingering depression that I felt after my release from suicidal tendencies had to do with my theories about spirituality.
I thought that I had to constantly monitor myself and remain identified only with the Light, denying my own Shadow.
But that kept me in a constant battle with myself, since the Shadow side must be brought into the open and accepted in order to be understood and to evolve.
I was also in denial about how much I doubted, how my faith wasn't really grounded in reality, and was therefore quite shaky.
I couldn't believe that God was Love with all the horrors that I saw in the world.
So I stopped believing in that God and started believing in the Creator, who created both Darkness and Light, and tried to learn to accept that, and to continue working toward evolving more toward the Light, without constantly trying to deny that my dark side had any value or relevance.
After all, Creator was responsible for the Darkness as well as the Light, and we are stuck with it, no matter how much we would like not to identify with it....
But I think we learn to become stronger through our experience of the dark side. and if it has value, then it is that, and I've learned to appreciate it.
And I've learned to grin and bear it, learning what an attribute a great sense of humor can be; even if it is a trifle sardonic, you can't deny that it is wise.
You've probably read the scifi classic by Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land. Remember the scene when Michael Valentine Smith had a big satori and finally understood the dynamic of how human misery is created ( he saw a monkey get hurt accidentally by a falling coconut if I recall correctly, get enraged, and then took it out on another monkey). Then he was also finally able to understand the root of laughter, and once he understood that, he lost his self-doubt.
It's not necessarily logical, but understanding can transcend logic--we can just feel it, with our hearts (and I know you do...).
Once we accept how things are, we can let go of the inner struggle and then we have a lot more energy to make things better, not by clinging or battling against, but just by going with the slow, steady flow of evolution.
:star::heart::muscle:
We don't have to have a huge enlightenment experience to get there; a bunch of little insights can add up eventually to the equivalent of one big satori.
A lot of depression is simply due to an unhealthy life style, but once we stop the internal battle, we have a lot more clarity and energy, so we can hear our bodies telling us what we need to feel better. :dancing:

Hi Natalie
This was an amazing post.
Thank you for sharing. :happythumbsup:

Amazing. One of the most interesting and well written posts I've ever come across.
Thank you ☺️

[onawah]

Most welcome, DNA. There is some info here that is relevant to the subject matter of this thread about depression:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?117558-Archon-Attacks&p=1476574&viewfull=1#post1476574




Hi Natalie
This was an amazing post.
Thank you for sharing. :happythumbsup:
Amazing. One of the most interesting and well written posts I've ever come across.
Thank you ☺️

[Arcturian108]

Read Your Multiple Souls to understand a totally different way to eliminate depression.

[ExomatrixTV]

1794392792644690028

[Dilettante]

I've struggled with depression since I was a teenager. In some ways, it's like an old friend - damn hard to live with, but I can crack a wry smile knowing that she's still there with me.

Whether or not it's selfish, I'm not exactly sure. You know how you can fall into yourself, the self, and connect with something actually quite outside yourself? If that's selfish, then yes, so is depression. But I think it's because sensitive people deal with the weight of the world. Not personal wallowing, that's a little different. But truly comprehending the scale of what we've been brought into. All the birthing and dying, all the tears and laughter, all the truth and lies. Obviously too much for any one person to bear.

So I think I cry painful and joyous tears because I don't know what else to do. Sometimes I laugh at it all. The absurdity.

Life is as high as it is low. I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Mike]

I've struggled with depression since I was a teenager. In some ways, it's like an old friend - damn hard to live with, but I can crack a wry smile knowing that she's still there with me.

Whether or not it's selfish, I'm not exactly sure. You know how you can fall into yourself, the self, and connect with something actually quite outside yourself? If that's selfish, then yes, so is depression. But I think it's because sensitive people deal with the weight of the world. Not personal wallowing, that's a little different. But truly comprehending the scale of what we've been brought into. All the birthing and dying, all the tears and laughter, all the truth and lies. Obviously too much for any one person to bear.

So I think I cry painful and joyous tears because I don't know what else to do. Sometimes I laugh at it all. The absurdity.

Life is as high as it is low. I wouldn't have it any other way.


Thanks for sharing that Dilettante. Your description of depression matches the one that I've heard many sensitives express. You're clearly an empath, like quite a few on the forum. I think mine has been both situational and biological. I never thought of myself as an absurdist until someone called me that after reading my stuff on Medium. But I guess I am. My response to depression has been to wallow in the absurdity like a pig rather than fight it. Part of my therapy has been to write about it.

I've also debated internally over whether depression is a selfish condition. We're just bludgeoned with that one, aren't we? I've heard this repeated ad nauseum over the years. But it often comes off like an empty platitude. It's like when people repeat the line that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. They seem so pleased with themselves, as if they were the first to utter it. Another one is "causation doesn't imply correlation". People just love saying these things:). Nevermind that that isn't the definition at all, and more often than not I think causation does imply correlation. But I digress...

If depression was a selfish condition exclusively then I guess endless good deeds for others would certainly cure it. I know that indeed this does help some people who are chronically depressed improve their mental health. But anyone who has had very serious depression over a long period of time knows this is wishful thinking. When you're that depressed you can't even get out of bed to take a dump, let alone participate at a soup kitchen or something.

I saw this old thread of mine pop up yesterday and was afraid to revisit it. It took me this long to build up the courage to read my original post. I embarrass easily and can be pretty neurotic, and if the post was embarrassing I would have spent the next week torturing myself over it. But it ain't bad.

[grapevine]

It's not so much that depression is a "selfish" condition as that it affects so many people other than the sufferer. When a family member is clinically depressed we are ALL severely affected with feelings of guilt, anxiety, helplessness and futility, all to no avail, and the quality of life loses its magic and lustre.

[Strat]

I was depressed from ages 13ish to my early 30s. I cured it through hard work using basic techniques for creating space between thought and the subsequent emotion that follows. People say "you can choose your reaction" but that's not entirely accurate. It varies from person to person because people are different so their emotional regulation varies. I still feel down from time to time but I don't feel depressed anymore (nor do I have a temper like I used to). Some people will need medication but I think most could get through it if they understood mental management, something Western culture doesn't teach, understand, or recognize and Eastern culture takes for granted, at least that's what I've discovered from the people I talk to from the East.

Within the past few months I've been developing an app to address this issue. I think I'll have it done by the end of the year, or at least a beta version. Most of the case studies I've done have been with young adults but I think the app will work well with people of all ages. There are lots of apps out there already like this but I hesitate to recommend any because they're all going to steal your info and from what I've seen the decent ones that are 'free' meaning only part of the app functions and the other parts that are needed are behind a paywall.

For those of yall waking up and the first thought in your head is genuine cursing life for forcing you to live another day in this hell.... I feel you. Keep fighting the good fight. Start life fresh, make a plan and have faith in the plan that it will work. Faith is the key to life but not blind faith, faith based on hard data. Just keep at it. If you need a week to lay around and do nothing then do it. Whatever works. If you have therapy available to you then go. I did therapy for years and it worked wonders. No meds just talk therapy. I will say finding a decent therapist can be difficult, I went through 3 until I found one who was good.

I really wish you all well. If anyone reading this needs an ear to listen and is shy about posting rants then feel free to PM me. I'm a good listener.

Much love yall :heart: