Zoroastrism

[Foxie Loxie]

Was very surprised today to learn that it has been implied that the three major religions we are familiar with today, Judaism, Christianity & Islam, all came from The Good Religion, known to us as Zoroastrism!

The "One True God", AHURA MAZDA, who flies in a winged disk, appeared to an Aryan Persian Prophet(Zoroaster). This was to have happened around 1737 B.C.(Robert Sephra, anyone?)

Coming from my Bible Belt Christianity mentality, I was very surprised to see that the Apostle Paul actually quoted from much earlier writings...or whoever it was that wrote what we have in our Bible today. :confused:

Any input on this subject would be appreciated! I'm still learning!

[Jayke]

The winged disc isn’t exclusive to Ahura Mazda. It’s also Horus, Aten, El-Elyon (Phoenician God of the most high), they’re all derivations of the Enochian tradition that survived the deluge after the great flood, as discussed in the book Uriels Machine (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/621790.Uriel_s_Machine).

It represents the creative and life giving power of the sun at sunrise...

38974

Michael Tsarion did an Excellent podcast with Jason Jorjani on the fall of Iran, which touches on other aspects of Zoroastrianism, such as Mithraism.

atK14weDAmI

[Cardillac]

Hi Foxie,

if I remember correctly the Zoroastrism religion believes that God (or whatever labeling) is/is contained within fire; or am I confusing this with the Ba'hai religion?- most probably :-(

has anyone ever yet considered where the character Zoro came from and why the name?

yes, Foxie, maybe there are some in the Avalon community who are more astute about this than we are but I hope Wikipedia entries about 2 forementioned religions will not be taken 100% seriously (spare me all with Wikipedia entries- the encyclopedia to which "anyone" can contribute)-

please continue to stay well Foxie and all readers-

Larry

[ichingcarpenter]

A Rare Glimpse Inside A Zoroastrian Temple In New York
Decent article with pictures


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/a-rare-glimpse-inside-a-zoroastrian-temple-in-new-york_us_570563d6e4b0537661888a74

[TomKat]

Was very surprised today to learn that it has been implied that the three major religions we are familiar with today, Judaism, Christianity & Islam, all came from The Good Religion, known to us as Zoroastrism!

The "One True God", AHURA MAZDA, who flies in a winged disk, appeared to an Aryan Persian Prophet(Zoroaster). This was to have happened around 1737 B.C.(Robert Sephra, anyone?)

Coming from my Bible Belt Christianity mentality, I was very surprised to see that the Apostle Paul actually quoted from much earlier writings...or whoever it was that wrote what we have in our Bible today. :confused:

Any input on this subject would be appreciated! I'm still learning!

Isn't this the religion of the Illuminati that came out of Persia? Gave birth to the Abrahamic religions? Leuren Moret has a lot to say about these families.

[Jayke]

Leuren Moret with Sean Stone on Buzzsaw:

Uhf9b_0tKfw

I hadn’t heard of Leuren before, but she does have some interesting insights on the bloodline families, starting around the 20 minute mark.

[Sunny-side-up]

Thanks for posting that vid Jake, very interesting through out.
From vid point 39: on wards is extra interesting, especially if you wan't some clue to the power/rulers and tools such as HAARP, which includes Chem-Trails.

[Endersby]

Mind blowing, a lot to process!

[Foxie Loxie]

Thanks for the videos, Jayke....what amazing information!! :highfive:

ichingcarpenter....Thanks for posting the actual rituals of the existing religion today! It was interesting to note that most of the people were from India who are keeping this religion alive.

My comment would be that if Ahura Mazda had to ride through the heavens on a winged disk, then we're still not talking about the Creator of All, are we?! :confused:

[Deux Corbeaux]

Was very surprised today to learn that it has been implied that the three major religions we are familiar with today, Judaism, Christianity & Islam, all came from The Good Religion, known to us as Zoroastrism!



Although it has indeed been implied that the three major monotheistic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, were influenced by Zoroastrianism, this oldest living religion has strong dualistic aspects.

As such, Zoroastrianism has certainly influenced Gnosticism and the belief of Bogomils and Cathars, which says that the world was not made by a loving God, but by an evil spirit, the God of the world, Rex Mundi.

While Zoroastrianism gave Islam its format of five prayers a day. Zoroastrianism’s apparent influence on Jewish and Christian eschatology, however, has proved difficult to substantiate.


This is a good read.

"The Other God": Dualist Religions from Antiquity to the Cathar Heresy.
by Yuri Stoyanov

"This fascinating book explores the evolution of religious dualism, the doctrine that man and cosmos are constant battlegrounds between forces of good and evil. It traces this evolution from late Egyptian religion and the revelations of Zoroaster and the Orphics in antiquity through the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Mithraic Mysteries, and the great Gnostic teachers to its revival in medieval Europe with the suppression of the Bogomils and the Cathars, heirs to the age-long teachings of dualism. Integrating political, cultural, and religious history, Yuri Stoyanov illuminates the dualist religious systems, recreating in vivid detail the diverse worlds of their striking ideas and beliefs, their convoluted mythologies and symbolism."

https://www.amazon.com/Other-God-Dualist-Religions-Antiquity/dp/0300082533

[Cardillac]

and then one should consider the concept Aryian comes from the name/concept Iran-

Larry

[Jayke]

My comment would be that if Ahura Mazda had to ride through the heavens on a winged disk, then we're still not talking about the Creator of All, are we?! :confused:

I tend to stay away from any UFO style interpretations (if that’s the direction you’re implying?), not that I rule out the possibility, just that the more terrestrial solutions have the greater body of evidence to support them.

http://www.theoi.com/Gallery/M26.1B.html
http://www.theoi.com/image/M26.1BDrakones.jpg

If Medea was drawn overlaid on a sun symbol, flying on two serpent-dragons (as in the image above), does that mean she was really flying in a dragon-powered UFO? Or is it just a metaphorical way to depict certain aspects of solar consciousness?

For me, the evidence suggests that if there was extra terrestrial contact, then that contact took place in the non-corporeal form, with astral intelligences conveying their message to the psyche of initiates while they were induced into shamanic states of consciousness. I’d say this is primarily what the astral magic of the median magi was about (‘astra’ being the Greek word for ‘stars’), but could they then use the wisdom gained from such practices to build themselves a vimana and have one of their priests ride around through the heavens? Sure, why not!

...but...

...Ahura Mazda is always going to be the spiritual light that gives birth to all creation first (similar to the gnostic ideas of the Absolute (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_(philosophy)) behind the Logos). If an ET arrives in a vimana, rides through the heavens and pretends to be an incarnate version of this creator god; then that ET is just an imposter on an ego trip imo, regardless of where in the universe they may have come from.

The magi understood that stars possess consciousness, tune into the star and you can download that stars wisdom.

http://gnosticesotericstudyworkaids.blogspot.com/2016/09/third-logos-excerpts-question-of-who.html
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6wm35Od3U8Q/V9oh_ru_e3I/AAAAAAAAD9o/2VxEmOOBTvQOtUiy4RLAm5XYhbOLDcW4gCK4B/s1600/1112%2B-%2BHoly%2BSpirit%2BGifts.jpg


“Hail sacred swan! Miraculous Hamsa. Hail Phoenix bird of paradise! Hail immortal Ibis! Dove of the Grail, creative energy of the Third Logos!" - Gnostic Ritual

[shaberon]

It is one of the most ancient branches of Fire Philosophy; same as the Rig Veda; which is the ancient Central Asian occultism that we attempt to study and practice.

Here again, we would say there was an original Zoroaster, lost in the mists of time with thirteen or fourteen subsequent ones until arriving at the historically-known one of ca. 1700 B. C.

Yes, Iran = Aryan, Iran being the western side of the Aryan which moved east to India, extending as far as Assam.

For the most part, by placing an increasing dualistic perspective on Fire Philosophy, one eventually reaches the point of Mani, which was used to formulate the rather harsh fears of hell, etc., used to compose most Abrahamic religions. The real one is non-dual and is different from some Indian systems such as Vaisnava. Non-duality states that the root reality inside a human being is "not two", i. e. is identical with the root reality of the cosmos: Tat Tvam Asi. Thou Art That.

It thus rejects or relegates the Creator to its limited role. The underlying concept is that there are Two Fires: the one of creation, and the pure or transcendental Fire, which is unable to create, or directly affect matter in any way. It is not of this world. You will not ever be able to understand Fire as long as the apparent creation is exalted; the whole thing is nothing but a function.

The key operation is Desire. Divine Desire, known as Eros to the Greeks, does not pertain to the world of form, whereas gross or ordinary desire does. Only by placing the will subservient to the divine with utter sacrifice of self does Crucifixion make sense, which comes from Visvakarman, taking 1/8 of the sun's rays and crucifying himself on a lathe.

All of our systems of meditation work by identifying the elements of form and learning how to withdraw from them and obtain consciousness that controls matter, which may be imitated by black magic that may appear similar at the onset. Power over matter is a by-product not to be pursued for its own sake, so primarily mediation should be understood as the means of first rendering oneself into a fit vehicle for, and then entering into, transcendental wisdom (Gnosis or Jnana).

There is no creator of the higher transcendental reality because it is self-existent, with neither beginning nor end. It can only be said to have active and passive phases: producing worlds or sleeping. By contrast, a creator of any particular system, such as our solar system, is said to be born and die at the end.

Zoroastrianism has not quite come forward in a pristine condition and almost vanished, whereas the Aryan has been pretty stable. Almost all modern religions are fragments and reconstructions of these, usually passed through someone's hands who wanted to change it to make a hierarchy or institution of some kind. Even Jesus said nothing original which can't be found in the Puranas, although we can't attribute him with wishing to start a church. The Greek language and mythology is a direct cognate or copy of the Aryan.

One instance of confusion is that "Ahura" of Ahura-Mazda is Sanskrit "Asura", "breath", so all of the oldest deities are Asura because they are just breath, not hands and shapers of clay and dust. Later, the term was given the interpretation A-sura "no god" and so then the same word Asura is changed, but in the original Veda, they are pure breath. So if Ahura Mazda is Breath of the Sun, it is not the sun per se or its subsequent system, but, rather, that divine breath which is the prime motion of which the visible sun is the product or child. Ahriman is only a normal, natural shadow of this, itself not inherently evil. We say evil only exists where a moral, conscious choice can be made and failed, hence only in the mind of man.

Attempts to externalize evil (the devil) or to externalize reality or make it a "second" (god) are thus thoroughly denied. It is all in the mind, or, in the case of reality, attainable through or via the mind by transcending it.

I'm not much of a Zoroastrian, but in its original or pure form, it is a very ancient branch of Fire Philosophy, amongst which are the Aryan and Buddhist, and then the Alchemical--Rosicrucian which some Europeans obtained from the east. To call it this is saying all elements proceed from Fire--not a visible one requiring fuel such as the Sun, but one that always exists in a place that is rather dark to us because invisible.

[Deux Corbeaux]

Michael Tsarion did an Excellent podcast with Jason Jorjani on the fall of Iran, which touches on other aspects of Zoroastrianism, such as Mithraism.

atK14weDAmI

Thanks Jayke for this excellent episode of the Unslaved series. Just pushing the Thanks button wasn't enough for me.

I learned a lot and recommend this to anybody interested in the history of Aryan races of the Middle East, pre-Islamic Iran, the founding of Iranian culture by Zoroaster, the Cult of Mithras, the gods of light and darkness, Sufism, the appropriation of Iranian traditions and the conquest of Iran by Islam.
So much knowledge there......

[Sophocles]

Zoroastrism as a philosophical doctrine and the world as a moral reality.

This video was posted by Houman a couple of years back on the Horus-Ra thread. In it retired Professor Emeritus of Philosophy Kaikhosrov Irani gives his reconstruction of the general conception of Zoroastrism.

He also talks about the Zoroastrian dualism of good and evil, the «moral» individual mind, the first Enlightenment, heaven and hell, free will, the bridge of the seperator (after weighing our actions we either go «down» to worst consciousness or «up» to best consciousness), the Priesthoods gradual humanising of abstract commitments, how the Zoroastrian concepts of Freewill and Individualism influenced the Greek Philosophers, Zoroastrian influence on Middle Platonic (body and mind duality), Cyrus the Great (one of Zarathustras disciples), the Medes and the Persians, Cyrus the Savior in the Bible, and Zoroastrism as an individual faith.

Zarathushtrian Religion, Philosophy and History (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s1t0hrl4pE)
3s1t0hrl4pE

Some quotes:


«The truth that he (Zarathustra) is talking about is the relationship of all things in perfect harmony so that nothing occurs at the expense of something else» (frictionless existence). «This ideal world of Zarathustra, asha, was then actualized in the material world.»


«The universe is to be understood as a potentially ideal evolution which has been contaminated by internal opposition and frustration. The world is to be looked at as a moral reality in which there is the movement towards goodness but there`s also the movement towards frustration. This vision is the central religious vision of Zarathustra.»


«There is no such thing as a good deed without good thought.»


«The priest has to construct rituals because they are by profession technologists. There`s a technique of communicating with the divinity.»

[Foxie Loxie]

Trying to digest all this info!! :blushing:

To move from tribalism to individualism.

1) Recognize the truth. 2. Then the proper way to achieve it. 3. Then the courage to put it into practice.

The need to examine what IS! The responsibility to judge carefully.

To do the right thing just because it is right!(Seems as though I remember Bill saying this recently.) :idea:

Nothing at the expense of something else.

Good Thought, Good Will, Good Deed! No need for "rules" or tribalism...

Free Will & Individualism....being able to relate to others outside the norms of "tribal" rule placed by others.

If the Rules & Regulations cause injustice, then the rules need to be changed!

Seems to me, all of the Great Teachers operated along these lines! So perhaps all these religions did spring from the teachings of Zarathustra! :flower:

[shaberon]

Overall next to nothing is known of the ancient Achaemenids or older Zoroastrianism.

Here are a few things from a current peer-reviewed science Paper: (http://article.sciencepublishinggroup.com/html/10.11648.j.larp.20160101.15.html)

"The Persian people recognized Ahura Mazda and separately worshipped five elements. The first of these was that there were two kinds of light: daylight (sun) and night light (moon). The other four elements were fire, water, earth and wind."

This largely identifies with the same system of four basic elements plus a fifth, as seen in Pythagoreanism, Ayurveda, or the national figure of Nepal, Lord Aalok Pashupati, often simply called Space. By this number, five, is meant pentagram or Microcosm, individual person.


"Zarahustra and later Zerdüşt. The priest was the representative of Ahura Mazda, the skies, the ground, the water, six heavenly beings (the six known planets and the angels which he represented), the universe of spirits and justice."

Skies, ground, and water, being various terms for Earth, Ether, Heaven, or Form, Desire, and Formless, basic view of three worlds common in India. Then you see the Priest is with Six Heavenly Beings, which is the individual priest--Microcosm--placed into the Hexagram--Macrocosm. All together they are Seven Elohim (Amsha Shaspend in Zoroastrian). This same format is used in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad and Manjushri Namasangiti. The actual placement would be done in a manner resembling the alchemical marriage of earthly and heavenly quintessences. One who can understand this symbolism is almost a yogi.

[Foxie Loxie]

Thank you, shaberon, will have to sink my teeth into that Paper!! ;)

[shaberon]

That paper is mainly architectural, and, typifies the fact that the ancient form of the belief and practice is not exactly known. Similarly, we find that the Mayan system as with the Popol Vuh is essentially the same as Zoroastrian, although it could be said that its ancient form is not really known, and it has no modern representation. This is pretty much the running theme with all the ancients: they were wiped out, and what's used today is not necessarily the original. So the extreme majority of modern western magic is just some version of Golden Dawn.

The few that could be said to have been in constant operation would include the Druze, Mandean, and Yazidi of the mid-east, and then the Aryan and Buddhist of India. The latter two being the only kind you can do if you weren't born into it.

As well as Freddie Mercury from Queen, a highly influential Parsi or Zoroastrian to me personally is B. P. Wadia, both men claimed as their own by the Zoroastrians in this list (https://zoroastrians.net/2014/02/25/eminent-parsis-of-india/) of famous members.

Here is Wadia's version of Zoroastrian Philosophy. (http://www.teosofiskakompaniet.net/BPWadia_ZoroastrianPhilosophy.htm) He was one of our last great exponents of sticking to the original system. He traveled to England to try to bring in Dion Fortune, but she chickened out. At the time I believe she was involved with Alpha and Omega branch of the G. D. She represents the predictable western attitude of superiority, which is a disqualification from becoming a yogi.

[Ernie Nemeth]

The Rex Mundi supposition is my secretly held belief too.
I know I did not come here to learn. I certainly know I did not come here to play. I also did not come here to atone for past 'sins'.
I believe the evil one set this place up - that is why it is intrinsically evil, and a place of suffering and pain. 'god' never answers because 'god' is not here as such.
I am here strictly to wake others up, to teach to learn, and to love and lead by example.
Damn the evil one and that puppet's minions.

[shaberon]

That is different from esoteric Zoroastrian philosophy as described by B. P. Wadia, which denies that Ahriman is the evil one. More like an aspect of one existence, light--shadow. Evil is placed squarely in man's hands and is his property and responsibility.

The world of form is fashioned, not really made, by imperfect intelligences, because the purely spiritual cannot do it. Humans tend to supplicate these lesser builders in their religions, so they become embroiled in man's evil ways, but are not really the source of it. Does nature consume and destroy all things, yes, but that in itself is not considered evil.

I have a lot to learn, to play, and atone for...what would be the significance in denying these?

[Deux Corbeaux]

The Rex Mundi supposition is my secretly held belief too.
I know I did not come here to learn. I certainly know I did not come here to play. I also did not come here to atone for past 'sins'.
I believe the evil one set this place up - that is why it is intrinsically evil, and a place of suffering and pain. 'god' never answers because 'god' is not here as such.
I am here strictly to wake others up, to teach to learn, and to love and lead by example.
Damn the evil one and that puppet's minions.

Yes Ernie, the God of Love, Amor, doesn’t live here anymore. Rex Mundi is ruling.

Do I hear a Cathar here?

http://i63.tinypic.com/2eznupg.jpg

[Star Tsar]

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