QAnon - An Opposing Viewpoint - LARP, Psyop, Cult or Something Even More Sinister?

[KiwiElf]

Since the QAnon phenomenon began in late October, 2017 - slowly at first and then picking up momentum and an ever growing number of followers globally - voices were raised in earnest that it was nothing more than a LARP (Live Action Role Play), a conspiracy theory, psyop and even a cult, as it has indeed taken on many of those attributes by those who are skeptical of "Q's" true intentions or who "Q" really may be?

Is "Q" really providing insider military intelligence to enlighten the public, or is it something more sinister?

The purpose of this thread is to discuss an opposing viewpoint, concerns, share evidence of the same and offer a counter narrative to the "Q" followers.

(Mods please feel free to move thread or edit title as you see fit - KE) :thumbsup:

This video from the Kev Baker Show, outlines some of those concerns, providing evidence that "Q" just may be the "LARP of the Century".


The Final Q'urtain For #Qanon As LARP Of The Century Fully EXPOSED! 🙈

LZv0_ZT50Oc

The Kev Baker Show
Streamed live on Sep 5, 2018
#TeamKBS #KevBakerShow #Truth

Big news overnight with Jack Posobiac making good on his claims that he would publish evidence that would prove there is no military insider or Trump associate at the centre of the Qanon conspiracy. On the contrary, its turns out to be just the LARP we said it all was & with online trolls at the centre of it.

Im getting ready for the barrage of down votes & negative comments, because people just dont like to admit they have been duped, & on this one, duped big time.

Kev Baker comes to you from Glasgow, Scotland & is the host of The Kev Baker Show on Truth frequency radio. Kev covers topics ranging from geopolitics to the paranormal.

[mojo]

Ty KiwiElf for creating this thread. Those with an opposing view can share without feeling supporters of Q aren't being attacked, and it sure makes sense.

[TomKat]

Q seems like a replay of David Wilcock-sponsored hope porn. Drake was going to change the world, remember? And if he couldn't do it, surely all the supersoldiers will beam down from Mars and do it, no?

[edina]

Q seems like a replay of David Wilcock-sponsored hope porn. Drake was going to change the world, remember? And if he couldn't do it, surely all the supersoldiers will beam down from Mars and do it, no?

How does Q seem like a replay? The two seem nothing alike to me. Although I have noticed that David Wilcox has tried to co-opt Q and call Q a part of his "Alliance" thing.

[Omni]

I have witnessed things in relation to Q. Right before he came about I was conveyed by a cybernetic source there was a new psyop coming. That psyop turned out to be Q Anon. Without going too far into unbelievable detail, I believe this is a calculated alternative media psyop by the American intelligence community.

Corey Goode is a similar psyop to Q Anon, devised by the same people. One thing that appears obvious to me is that the real story of inside opposition is being bastardized in both Corey Goode and Q Anon's psyops. There is a real opposition being misconceived with these psyops. False versions of things are being mind programmed and psychologically anchored. Very evil agendas are being pushed forward with these 2 psyops, and the evil is quite imperceivable.

In a nutshell: alternative media is being engulfed in darkness while it is mesmerized with false light.

[Helene West]

So I don't have to feel guilty about my Q misgivings here. Cool. For the record however I was a pessimist way before Q came along.

One of my passing dark thoughts I envision in this regard is a similarity to the Bernie Sanders phenom. Sanders corralled young people together who wanted something other than Clinton. He attracted and gathered large groups and the energy was high, a movement was starting. I see the same in the Trump rallies. Large numbers who don't want globalism being corralled and gathered and you can feel the excitement, see the Q shirts, a movement is starting.

But at a critical point Bernie stopped. He turned to multitudes and said, 'We fought a good fight, but I have to leave now. You really should follow Clinton...'

Will Trump at a critical point, stop and turn to the multitudes and say, 'We fought a good fight, but I have to leave now. You really need to follow_________....'

I don't know who or what fills the blank but methinks it will be deflating at best and at worst depressing.

One of several passing dark thoughts...

[bobme]

QAnon is no differant than Trump supporters, Clinton supporters,Netanyaho supporters, and so on and so on whatever supporters.

Whether it be left, or right. It is all bull****.

We are a Republic period.

Not a democracy. Period again.

This arguement about anyone in politics being a good guy is just pure ****.

Look up. ARE THEY STILL SPRAYING? Yup. Look down now. Are the gmo crops still being planted and consumed? Yup.

Are vaccines , and big pharma still around. Yup.

I choose to piss on the lot of them.

Just my minds worth.

[Nasu]

My view is that the vagueness of his or her posts leaves much room for interpretation and speculation, this in itself feeds into the followers cravings and dot connecting. Secondly, IF he or she were a genuine threat to information security the various agencies who could silence him or her would silence him or her. Thirdly the posts read differently to me, suggesting more than one poster sharing the same access, but again one poster or a team, IF they were a threat they would have been closed down.

If THEY can close down low levels like Alex Jones and scare off insiders in middle management like Edward Snowdon, imagine the team that must be set up purely dedicated to uncovering and closing down Q???

Yet he or she broadcasts uninterrupted..

Ergo, therefore, the ONLY logical conclusion is that either Q is a government sponsored phsyop for some unseen purpose, most likely distraction, or Q is being allowed to spill his or her beans without impediment???

If he or she is being allowed to broadcast, one must question why? Either the content is not a threat or the content is being directed, either way it is not worth anymore of my time. In the unlikely event that he or she reveals anything conclusively useful I am fully ready to eat my hat. IMHO....x.... N

[onawah]

My dark thought is about hearing "We fought a good fight, but I have to leave now. You really need to follow my Evangelical Christian VP Mike Pence."
...Inasmuch as it looks like the Democrat's candidate is sure to lose...



Will Trump at a critical point, stop and turn to the multitudes and say, 'We fought a good fight, but I have to leave now. You really need to follow_________....'

I don't know who or what fills the blank but methinks it will be deflating at best and at worst depressing.

One of several passing dark thoughts...

[shaberon]

Going to admit ignorance on the specific topic.

I have found the "playing field" to be a whole bunch of chatter.

I quit paying attention to the majority of sources. I mostly read about foreign countries from their own statements, and mostly watch our government by the legislation and Executive Orders that come through, rather than a second party sensationalizing it.

Unfortunately I've found that I could disassemble almost every trend or school of thought that comes along because for the most part they are all either promoting something (a hoax, monetary value, etc.) or trying to hide something. At some level, I find a mistake or problem with almost any public personality who does these kinds of things.

I place a huge value on good investigative journalism such as ANNA, best coverage of Syria if you don't mind crunching it through a translator, and probably come across as brash because I tend to dismiss most of the framed dialogues and insider stuff that many people follow. Like the whole c2c phenomenon, I wouldn't spend any time with it and have no real experience with it.

If Q is stating or implying that "U. S. is a democracy", then a bit of it is untrue, at a minimum.

[jake gittes]

I don't think Qanon is a LARP at all. Too much inside info and simply too much info period for someone to carry on some prank. Now, psyop? Definitely possible, since military/intel is involved. One thing I'm pretty sure is, they'll have to do something in the next 2 months that will likely prove it is real or not. I'm still a believer.

I just posted this in the Q thread, but it's pertinent to this thread:

It finally dawned on me what one of the main purposes of Qanon was … to organize us.


Knowing that they know everything, thanks to the NSA collecting everything about everyone, they determined that there were enough of us out here who are fed up with the corruption and evil of the deep state. "They" to whom I am referring to is/are the Q-team, which I presume to be a mixture of intel/military white hats who are also fed up with the corruption and evil. With their access to all that info - what websites we visit, our comments at those websites, etc. - they were able to determine "we" vs. "they." The Q-team tallied it up and realized they had a powerful, yet untapped, disorganized army of us -- us being the decent, ordinary, every-day folk who want an honest and fair government, an end to corruption and their satanic-child-killing ways, and to just pursue happiness, enjoy life and actually live with liberty.


Now, instead of us shouting into various echo chambers, we have been rallied around Q and now have a powerful, collective voice. Don't believe it? Check out all the Q-followers at Trump rallies, comment sections and especially Q-cited Tweets, where the Q army arrives by the hundreds and responds with a variety of comments, memes, jokes, facts, etc. that blow the bad guys out of the water. I never followed "Twitter" before or had any desire to do so. But now it puts a smile on my face to check out a Tweet referenced by Q then to scroll down below what is often some phony, sanctimonious tweet by a deep state swamp rat, and read reply after reply after reply from informed opposition that shred the mendacity to ribbons and share information that is likely to pique the interest of someone not yet in the loop to take the red pill and jump down the hole.

[Innocent Warrior]

Connecting dots by solving puzzles is fun and very informative for truth seekers, Q is great for this.

The installation of hope for a brighter future in any figure/s outside ourselves as individuals or a collective - any authority figure - whether it be political, religious or otherwise, is total bull****.

39Yp9RTgXOo

I have come to despise Q for this.

If you haven’t watched the following documentary, I highly recommend watching it, it’s long but worth it.

U1Qt6a-vaNM

Then consider this; Trump gives $717 billion defense bill a green light. Here's what the Pentagon is poised to get (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/13/trump-signs-717-billion-defense-bill.html)

Nuff said.

Thank you for starting this thread, Kiwi. It’s nice to be able to express our opinions freely here; the fact that a number of us don’t feel we can on the Q thread and how some Q followers don’t seem to care about that, or refuse to acknowledge the obvious division it’s creating/deepening, is concerning and sad.

[Innocent Warrior]

cKSUlfT_MnM

I don’t support the title of the video unless you consider personal testimony valid evidence but there are plenty of details given that may prove enlightening on closer inspection. For example; if Q no longer predicts Trump tweets then that supports the claim about the method used to make those predictions. Or, if Q continues to predict Trump tweets (and the tool still doesn’t show them in advance at this time) then that invalidates that claim.

Credit to RaiseMachine for sharing this video HERE (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103970-Jordan-Sather-goes-on-Comedy-Central-w-Jim-Jefferies-to-talk-QAnon&p=1244836&viewfull=1#post1244836).

[Matthew]

The video in the OP is quite revealing, and Rachel's above. Watching them I've come to learn:

Among the Q instigators there were some good intentions, but mostly they wanted merchandising money.

The Q instigators exploited a early twitter feed source, where twitter itself had a ten to fifteen minute delay before the tweets were published, but a 3rd party media reporting service was more instant allowing the illusion of preempting Trumps tweets, hence the +++ 'evidence of authenticity'. This has since been fixed, which is why it doesn't happen any more. The evidence shown... apoQalypse?

[mountain_jim]

Q may or may not be a psyop, but plenty of proofs have been provided over the months to show Q and Trump are working together.

Just today I am reminded of this early evidence (11/8/17) that Q again referred to on 9/6.

https://www.neonrevolt.com/2018/09/08/goodbye-mr-rosenstein-the-world-is-changing-newq-qanon-greatawakening-neonrevolt/



Q then responds to this post from #Anon:

https://www.neonrevolt.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/firefox_2018-09-07_16-47-50_compressed.jpg

Now, this was an old #QConfirmation Q is just reminding us of. I’ll explain for those who may just be joining us, and having a hard time following along:

Back in November, when Q was relatively new, one of the earliest proofs of his validity came in the form of this post:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/928325667556548608/photo/1


If you were to save that image directly from Twitter, the filename starts the phrase DOITQ. See:

https://www.neonrevolt.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/firefox_2018-09-07_16-51-31.png

Thus, the chances of this happening randomly are:

https://www.neonrevolt.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/firefox_2018-09-07_13-48-56.png

And Q is highlighting these “coincidences” because of the #Microchip drama that continues to unfold.

[norman]

My dark thought is about hearing "We fought a good fight, but I have to leave now. You really need to follow my Evangelical Christian VP Mike Pence."
...Inasmuch as it looks like the Democrat's candidate is sure to lose...



Will Trump at a critical point, stop and turn to the multitudes and say, 'We fought a good fight, but I have to leave now. You really need to follow_________....'

I don't know who or what fills the blank but methinks it will be deflating at best and at worst depressing.

One of several passing dark thoughts...


Hi onawah and Helene, you might want to listen to this interview with Steve Pieczenik. It would be all over youtube by now, but . . . .



Not quite central to the point of referring you to the interview, but, Mike Pence isn't evangelical. He's catholic.


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103766-YouTube-Facebook-Apple-and-Spotify-all-ban-Alex-Jones-Infowars&p=1246545&viewfull=1#post1246545

[Innocent Warrior]

NHGS0r0dV0Y


Published on Feb 16, 2018

A Navy Gunner who held a Top Secret\ Sensitive compartmentalized Information (TS\SCI) clearance speaks to us about concerns with the ongoing Qanon revelations.


Has Q claimed Q clearance, or is that theorised by QAnon, or is that just what the MSM is saying? I’m wondering because if that were true, and Trump was a part of it (I’m assuming that’s inferred by his part in the thumbs photo), then wouldn’t Trump be making himself a sitting duck and leaving himself wide open for prosecution since it’s secret information. Or is Q not dropping secret information, in which case; what’s the point?

QAnon keeps suggesting to read the source ourselves when we’re not convinced but why can’t QAnon just answer questions, since they’ve been keeping up and it’s a lot to read for casual and/or sceptical observers? It would serve Q to either become direct at this point or more accommodating, since otherwise one is left with the impression that it requires a kind of brainwashing to be comprehended.

This isn’t constructive when you have the MSM calling QAnon a cult; not for Q/QAnon or any of the fields of research QAnon covers. Too bad for everyone else who has taken great care to maintain credibility in these fields throughout the years. If it’s not a provable or easily demonstrated theory then isn’t it irresponsible to not at least acknowledge that and be reasonable about it, instead of behaving like a bunch of JWs bashing us with their bibles?

Questions asked in earnest. Best to all.

[onawah]

According to the first article I read about him, he was Catholic, but then became an Evangelical. In this article, he describes himself as a born again Evangelical Catholic:
https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/5-faith-facts-mike-pence-born-again-evangelical-catholic


My dark thought is about hearing "We fought a good fight, but I have to leave now. You really need to follow my Evangelical Christian VP Mike Pence."
...Inasmuch as it looks like the Democrat's candidate is sure to lose...



Will Trump at a critical point, stop and turn to the multitudes and say, 'We fought a good fight, but I have to leave now. You really need to follow_________....'

I don't know who or what fills the blank but methinks it will be deflating at best and at worst depressing.

One of several passing dark thoughts...


Hi onawah and Helene, you might want to listen to this interview with Steve Pieczenik. It would be all over youtube by now, but . . . .



Not quite central to the point of referring you to the interview, but, Mike Pence isn't evangelical. He's catholic.


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103766-YouTube-Facebook-Apple-and-Spotify-all-ban-Alex-Jones-Infowars&p=1246545&viewfull=1#post1246545

[Bill Ryan]

I'd like to thank KiwiElf for starting this thread. It's important for members (not just myself!) to be able to offer a sane, argued, courteous, grounded, alternative view without fear of an arrogant, sarcastic response.

(And @KiwiElf: you have fairly often verbally bullied and/or belittled those who even ask questions and aren't as familiar with the material as you openly pride yourself to be. That's not okay. I'm assuming that because you started this thread, you are aware of this, so thank you again.)

:focus:

[Joe from the Carolinas]

*/mod hat on*

I’m glad we have a thread where people on the fence can express divergent views without being challenged, proved wrong, overwhelmed, or picked apart. I appreciate Kiwi 🥝 starting it. This thread was probably long overdue. :happythumbsup:

I will be assisting in moderating this thread to ensure it remains a safe space for Q skeptics, doubters, people on the fence, and those looking for more information and discussion :bearhug:

If I’m posting as a moderator, I’ll let you know that my mod hat is on (like I did above). Negative name calling or insulting another member (regardless of their belief system) is not in line with our forum guidelines and will result in post deletion, post editing, and/or a forum timeout.

There is not and will not be a reading or watching requirement for posting in this thread, and, this will not be a place to push Q posts or convince disbelievers that they are wrong.

Members are doing a very fine job with regular Q updates and Q analysis here- http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters

Given the passionate emotional and time investment involved with Q Anon Research, content in this thread may be difficult for some people to read. Please, be respectful and stay on topic for this thread.

Also, this is not a Q Apologist thread- Q researchers don’t need to worry about countering these opposing viewpoints in this thread. If you would like to engage in Q apologetics, please create a separate thread on that topic.

Our goal as a moderation team is to encourage polite on topic discussion. Please be nice to each other :) :happythumbsup:

[Ascension]

Whether it be left, or right. It is all bull****.

We are a Republic period.

Not a democracy. Period again.




Agreed, except that I would use the term corporate dictatorship rather than republic.

[Satori]

Whether it be left, or right. It is all bull****.

We are a Republic period.

Not a democracy. Period again.




Agreed, except that I would use the term corporate dictatorship rather than republic.

Then, if I may be so bold, you are not in agreement. A corporate dictatorship is essentially the generally accepted definition of fascism. A true Republic is not a fascist state

What is interesting that many people observe, is that in Congress one can see on both sides of the Bench in the great hall a fasces. A fasces is associated with Fascism in Fascist Italy. Fasces were in the ancient Roman Empire a bundle of rods, representing the masses, bound by twine with a projecting ax and blade, representing the power of the state. That does smack of an indication of Fascism in our Republic.

[Daozen]

One of Q's keywords is breadcrumbs, right? Who needs breadcrumbs? Dogs and beggars. That should be a clue that it's all a psy-op.

Q has peaked. The Alt Media Steering Committee will roll out another rinky-dink-psyop within 1-2 months. Stay tuned.

[Helene West]

My dark thought is about hearing "We fought a good fight, but I have to leave now. You really need to follow my Evangelical Christian VP Mike Pence."
...Inasmuch as it looks like the Democrat's candidate is sure to lose...



Will Trump at a critical point, stop and turn to the multitudes and say, 'We fought a good fight, but I have to leave now. You really need to follow_________....'

I don't know who or what fills the blank but methinks it will be deflating at best and at worst depressing.

One of several passing dark thoughts...


Hi onawah and Helene, you might want to listen to this interview with Steve Pieczenik. It would be all over youtube by now, but . . . .



Not quite central to the point of referring you to the interview, but, Mike Pence isn't evangelical. He's catholic.


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103766-YouTube-Facebook-Apple-and-Spotify-all-ban-Alex-Jones-Infowars&p=1246545&viewfull=1#post1246545

Thanks but I don't share Onawah's fear of the religious angle at all. If trump is taken out or were to leave for any reason the left would make short shrift of Pence, evangelical, catholic or otherwise. If the powers that be have any religion it would be more along the lines of Baal than anything else... but with the impersonal aspects of AI, robotics and 5G confronting us I just don't see religion playing a big role anywhere for very long.

[Helene West]

Does anyone else find it odd or maybe annoying the way Q tells us to 'enjoy the show'?

I can understand not calling to organize or demonstrate or anything like that as the mainstream would go bananas but why, if he's taking everything so seriously, 'enjoy the show'? Like reinforcing our already long-engrained passivity? We've been a nation of watchers for a long time. For watchers, everything becomes entertainment. I would think he/it/they wouldn't want to become just more entertainment if for real...

[Jayke]

One of Q's keywords is breadcrumbs, right? Who needs breadcrumbs? Dogs and beggars. That should be a clue that it's all a psy-op.

Q has peaked. The Alt Media Steering Committee will roll out another rinky-dink-psyop within 1-2 months. Stay tuned.

Michelin Star Chefs also need breadcrumbs — as ingredients — to make exquisite dishes ;)

I’m less interested in labels and more interested in dynamics. The whole point of a psy-op is to instigate a process of change, to create a shift in optics, or to bring about a specific result. The formation of cults is to direct the course of a cult(ure), like growing a nasty strain of the flu in the lab before injecting it into some innocent passerby to keep them bedridden for weeks.

It’s easy to throw labels around. I’d like to see the deeper reasoning behind how those labels are formed. What are the specific markers in society that people are paying attention to that cause them to think the way they do? How do you know when someone has become blinded by superstitious beliefs or illogical thinking? What is the intended outcome of this particular psy-op? and based on the trends occurring in society as a result of these machinations...how will you know if they’ve achieved their goal? What do you see happening on the horizon beyond this psy-op? What do you ultimately anticipate is going to happen to society as a whole? (Psychological operators are always thinking 2 steps ahead, shouldn’t we be doing the same?)

I’m open to hearing the deeper logic behind any snyde remarks (especially the kind that Bill mentioned earlier are beneath the quality that this forum can live up to)

Helene, if you ever follow http://www.voltairenet.org/en (or any other excellent geopolitical analyst) it seems what’s happening behind the scenes is completely different from what the public are exposed to via the mainstream media. In that sense, the q-drops vs mainstream media shenanigans could be seen as a form of ‘bread and circuses’, to keep the masses entertained while the real deals are being established out of public view completely. In my interpretation, it could either be a hint to the astute that it’s all a show and they’ve already got the behind the scenes stuff wrapped up and handled, or it could be a patronising conditioning tool to further instill the passive movie mindset into the followers (although my personal bias leans to the former, rather than the latter).

I have no attachment to whether Q turns out to be genuine or not. I’m just happy to follow the empirical evidence in whatever direction it goes.
:happy dog:

[mojo]

One of Q's keywords is breadcrumbs, right? Who needs breadcrumbs? Dogs and beggars. That should be a clue that it's all a psy-op.

Hi, was just thinking the reason info is limited might be National Security, in fact Q mentioned this is the reason, anything more provided is crossing into classified territory and don't think Q wishes that path. The information he gathers seems to go right to the boundaries to share and probably like walking a tightrope. And here's another consideration what information Q gathered by NSA etc is so terrible/evil that he/she mentioned the difficulty in knowing it and sleeping at night. He mentioned that if all they knew came out it would be bad for humanity.

[DNA]

I had high hopes for Q at first, but my serious doubts came with the insistent mantra from "Q" to "trust Jeff Sessions", Alex Jones said very early on that Jeff Sessions was compromised by the deep state and as such couldn't be trusted.
Now we see Trump openly complaining of Sessions and apparently looking for his replacement.

Alex has now been deplatformed across the board.
So in so far as my go to for insider information, it is Alex Jones, not Q.

[edina]

One of Q's keywords is breadcrumbs, right? Who needs breadcrumbs? Dogs and beggars. That should be a clue that it's all a psy-op.

Q has peaked. The Alt Media Steering Committee will roll out another rinky-dink-psyop within 1-2 months. Stay tuned.

I don't want to be mistaken as a so-called Q apologist, but the term, breadcrumbs, was in use on the chans long before Q came along.

Q was just using their lingo.

Reading this thread there is a lot of misinformation you're sharing with each other.

But, you all sound so happy. :)

The QAnon thread was inexplicably closed (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters&p=1246871&viewfull=1#post1246871), so I just came to take a gander.

This thread was a good idea, thanks KiwiElf.

[Foxie Loxie]

Always enjoy your logical analysis, Jayke! :bowing: Thanks! :flower:

[Mari]

One of Q's keywords is breadcrumbs, right? Who needs breadcrumbs? Dogs and beggars. That should be a clue that it's all a psy-op.

Q has peaked. The Alt Media Steering Committee will roll out another rinky-dink-psyop within 1-2 months. Stay tuned.

Michelin Star Chefs also need breadcrumbs — as ingredients — to make exquisite dishes ;)

I’m less interested in labels and more interested in dynamics. The whole point of a psy-op is to instigate a process of change, to create a shift in optics, or to bring about a specific result. The formation of cults is to direct the course of a cult(ure), like growing a nasty strain of the flu in the lab before injecting it into some innocent passerby to keep them bedridden for weeks.

It’s easy to throw labels around. I’d like to see the deeper reasoning behind how those labels are formed. What are the specific markers in society that people are paying attention to that cause them to think the way they do? How do you know when someone has become blinded by superstitious beliefs or illogical thinking? What is the intended outcome of this particular psy-op? and based on the trends occurring in society as a result of these machinations...how will you know if they’ve achieved their goal? What do you see happening on the horizon beyond this psy-op? What do you ultimately anticipate is going to happen to society as a whole? (Psychological operators are always thinking 2 steps ahead, shouldn’t we be doing the same?)

I’m open to hearing the deeper logic behind any snyde remarks (especially the kind that Bill mentioned earlier are beneath the quality that this forum can live up to)

Helene, if you ever follow http://www.voltairenet.org/en (or any other excellent geopolitical analyst) it seems what’s happening behind the scenes is completely different from what the public are exposed to via the mainstream media. In that sense, the q-drops vs mainstream media shenanigans could be seen as a form of ‘bread and circuses’, to keep the masses entertained while the real deals are being established out of public view completely. In my interpretation, it could either be a hint to the astute that it’s all a show and they’ve already got the behind the scenes stuff wrapped up and handled, or it could be a patronising conditioning tool to further instill the passive movie mindset into the followers (although my personal bias leans to the former, rather than the latter).

I have no attachment to whether Q turns out to be genuine or not. I’m just happy to follow the empirical evidence in whatever direction it goes.
:happy dog:


My feelings exactly. Ultimately its about 'divide & conquer'. Keep the masses at each other's throats while the real stuff goes on unnoticed; throw in a few 'personalities' - a whipping boy here, a sacrificial lamb there, yes, chuck them on the bonfire - get the finger/s pointing - are they real/psy-op/plants/disinfo? On & on it goes. Yes, bread & circuses exactly - & don't we love it! The Romans invented that term & nothing's changed since then, but we are awakening from our slumber.....

I survive all this by simply admitting that I know jack sh*t about who's 'real' or 'fake'......except that If I must pay attention, then I go with my gut - every time. And, I study body language, :sherlock: so even the most accomplished liar will show themselves up for what they are, sooner or later, in my little world.

[Joe from the Carolinas]

*mod hat on*This is unfortunately not an overflow thread for any other thread on any other issue. I would kindly ask that any Q-apologists, Q-followers, and/or Q-researchers respect the specific guidelines in this thread.

Expect a message from admin soon on the status of the other Q thread.

Edit to add - Sierra
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78116-RECORD-of-MODERATOR-ACTIONS&p=1246925&viewfull=1#post1246925

[mojo]

May I ask a point of clarification? This comment Joe was a little confusing, "not be a place to push Q posts or convince disbelievers that they are wrong." I know its a fine line sometimes between convince or offer alternative view so just wanted to make sure alternative view is allowed? Thanks
PS: Im totally ok staying off the thread and no feelings hurt if that is the wish of management.

[RunningDeer]

Let it go. We all come back fresh tomorrow.
My 2 cents… ♡


https://i.imgur.com/rpxYdq8.jpg

[Daozen]

Maybe the word breadcrumbs was used before Q came along. I stand corrected, thanks. I still don't like the mentality it implies. Eager beggars waiting for scraps of intel. Q looks like a way to nullify potential leaders. I haven't wasted much time talking about it because it seemed like such an obvious lie. That Q thread is over 250 pages and absolutely nothing has come of it. Seems like a bizarre waste of time to me.

From The Washington Post

Aug 1, 2018 - “Q” feeds disciples, or “bakers,” scraps of intelligence, or “bread crumbs,” that they scramble to bake into an understanding of the “storm”

PS. It's not as simple as Mainstream Media = bad, Alternative Media = good. I've seen that polarized view pushed a lot. There are good people in the MSM. Likewise, the alt media is crawling with liars and sycophants. What makes them think they are any better than the MSM?

The aim of the media worldwide is to induce confusion and passivity.

The mass arrests psy-op is a hacky rewrite of The Second Coming.

I can't spend any more time on this or be drawn into any more debate because Q is just pure fabrication. It's Sunday. To hell with the internet. :)

[onawah]

I listened to their talk and I think Jones and Pieczenik have Pence pegged.
I would not be surprised to see his name on the Republican ticket next election instead of Trump's. I don't trust Pence at all, and neither do they. There is nothing worse than a religious hypocrite.
It was also interesting to hear them cop to Trump's years of womanizing and to his proclivity to delegate authority to the people he can manipulate and not to the people who might have some integrity--not because he's "keeping his enemies closer", but to cover his own backside.
They didn't put him on a hero's pedestal, which is refreshing after all the whitewashing from Q.


My dark thought is about hearing "We fought a good fight, but I have to leave now. You really need to follow my Evangelical Christian VP Mike Pence."
...Inasmuch as it looks like the Democrat's candidate is sure to lose...



Will Trump at a critical point, stop and turn to the multitudes and say, 'We fought a good fight, but I have to leave now. You really need to follow_________....'

I don't know who or what fills the blank but methinks it will be deflating at best and at worst depressing.

One of several passing dark thoughts...


Hi onawah and Helene, you might want to listen to this interview with Steve Pieczenik. It would be all over youtube by now, but . . . .



Not quite central to the point of referring you to the interview, but, Mike Pence isn't evangelical. He's catholic.


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103766-YouTube-Facebook-Apple-and-Spotify-all-ban-Alex-Jones-Infowars&p=1246545&viewfull=1#post1246545

¤=[Post Update]=¤

What I find really comical is that Fox newscasters refer to CNN as "the media" as if Fox isn't part of the media too.

Maybe the word breadcrumbs was used before Q came along. I stand corrected, thanks. I still don't like the mentality it implies. Eager beggars waiting for scraps of intel. Q looks like a way to nullify potential leaders. I haven't wasted much time talking about it because it seemed like such an obvious lie. That Q thread is over 250 pages and absolutely nothing has come of it. Seems like a bizarre waste of time to me.

From The Washington Post

Aug 1, 2018 - “Q” feeds disciples, or “bakers,” scraps of intelligence, or “bread crumbs,” that they scramble to bake into an understanding of the “storm”

PS. It's not as simple as Mainstream Media = bad, Alternative Media = good. I've seen that polarized view pushed a lot. There are good people in the MSM. Likewise, the alt media is crawling with liars and sycophants. What makes them think they are any better than the MSM?

The aim of the media worldwide is to induce confusion and passivity.

The mass arrests psy-op is a hacky rewrite of The Second Coming.

I can't spend any more time on this or be drawn into any more debate because Q is just pure fabrication. It's Sunday. To hell with the internet. :)

[Innocent Warrior]

OK, well I thought we could share views and ask our questions without feeling like we’re interrupting or berating Q researchers. I was hoping this thread would provide a civil climate for the researchers to help us understand Q better, maybe get to the bottom of it in an objective manner.

I don’t equate #QAnon with Q researchers, it is my understanding that QAnon are the convinced believers in it all being authentic and although the Q thread is not anti-Q friendly, most of the PA Q researchers seem more sensible than that.

I’m with Daozen, to hell with the internet.
BTW, my iPad just predicted my use of the word authentic without myself typing a single letter, it’s learning me! To hell with Apple too.

[edina]

BTW, my iPad just predicted my use of the word authentic without myself typing a single letter, it’s learning me! To hell with Apple too.

That's very interesting, machine learning in action.

On a different note, considering both your and Daozen's comments, there seems to be a lot of frustration expressed in general.
I'd like to understand that better.

[Helene West]

I don't think Q is a waste of time or contrivance by computer nerds or I wouldn't bother thinking or writing about it. My critiques are not put-downs but my own attempt to keep myself from 'True Believer' tendencies.

I've had a fear for a long time that it is too late for humanity, we waited too long to wake up and I still struggle with that. AI, robotics and especially remote control technology are the end game for us mainly because of who controls these. If Jesus or Buddha were controlling them I wouldn't worry.

My ongoing concern is simply - Are globalists (via their ownership of or influence over intelligence agencies) the authors of Q? Is Q the CIA or some facsimile? Those are my fears. When Trump got elected supposedly against all odds I had a tiny bit of hope not because of him personally but because the people were attempting to say FU to the ruling families (and that's only if you believe the election wasn't rigged). But Q has made Trump - or Mystery Door #2, even more perplexing.
If the algorithms are being written by globalist service workers in the intelligence communities what is it that they have in mind for trump supporters?
What is it that they want from trump supporters?

[Mike Gorman]

There are definitely valuable insights, and information being offered on the Q and 4-chan platform. This seems to have brought out every Troll and scumbag online, the level of '****posting' is off the scale.
That being said, it seems clear there is an attempt to provide clarity and genuine 'inside information' which never seems to be discussed on the mainstream media.

What worries me is the hidden nature, and 'coding' of the posts, why not just be very clear, very open about the information, why present it in this strange, games-like way?

I think we are definitely within a global information war, and a struggle of major groups to seize control of the narratives and, yes this is a power play.

People will always grasp any opportunity to promote their acclaim, to promote themselves as authorities, and generally muddy the waters. I have not reached a clear decision yet.
This is an interesting discussion, great caution is advised.

[bobme]

OK, well I thought we could share views and ask our questions without feeling like we’re interrupting or berating Q researchers. I was hoping this thread would provide a civil climate for the researchers to help us understand Q better, maybe get to the bottom of it in an objective manner.

I don’t equate #QAnon with Q researchers, it is my understanding that QAnon are the convinced believers in it all being authentic and although the Q thread is not anti-Q friendly, most of the PA Q researchers seem more sensible than that.

I’m with Daozen, to hell with the internet.
BTW, my iPad just predicted my use of the word authentic without myself typing a single letter, it’s learning me! To hell with Apple too.

That is interesting Racheal. Sorry if your name is misspelled. Probably a whole new thread there.

Take care all.

[onawah]

I really understand your fears and share them, Helene, but I got so disgusted with myself for being fooled for so long that now I actually prefer entertaining the worst possible scenarios, because it feels better in a weird way to be a realist than to be in denial.
Hopefully, I have just gone overboard temporarily and will find a better balance at some point, but things are going to have start being visibly better first.
One theory I have now is that Trump is being used to usher in the next Administration headed by Pence, whose religious views would become a huge bone of contention.
This would suit the globalist's plans to create lots of chaos and ideological and religious tension in the world by weakening borders between countries, moving massive numbers of refugees into cultures where they are unable or unwilling to assimilate and disempowering women thereby, creating false flag terrorist events, etc. and making martial law an ever more likely possibility. Some sources say their goal is to make the Muslim faith the NWO religion. This would make sense because it is so male-dominated religion, and the globalists like hierarchy and tyranny. Pence as POTUS would make the Left even more hysterical than they are now, and a right wing religious zealot in the White House would be very unlikely to help resolve tensions in the Middle East. Lots of LOOSH! Of course, there may be good, logical arguments against the likelihood of this happening, and I will be willing to entertain them, but for me now the important thing is not to underestimate the deviousness of the puppet masters.
I also think there are globalists with different priorities who are battling for supremacy, but at a certain level, they still share basic goals. Yet some of them are waking up and dissenting, and hopefully more will in time so that those goals will slowly change and be less pathological. So I think there is still hope, but that is about as optimistic I can get at this point. I think we are still in for a scary ride.

I don't think Q is a waste of time or contrivance by computer nerds or I wouldn't bother thinking or writing about it. My critiques are not put-downs but my own attempt to keep myself from 'True Believer' tendencies.

I've had a fear for a long time that it is too late for humanity, we waited too long to wake up and I still struggle with that. AI, robotics and especially remote control technology are the end game for us mainly because of who controls these. If Jesus or Buddha were controlling them I wouldn't worry.

My ongoing concern is simply - Are globalists (via their ownership of or influence over intelligence agencies) the authors of Q? Is Q the CIA or some facsimile? Those are my fears. When Trump got elected supposedly against all odds I had a tiny bit of hope not because of him personally but because the people were attempting to say FU to the ruling families (and that's only if you believe the election wasn't rigged). But Q has made Trump - or Mystery Door #2, even more perplexing.
If the algorithms are being written by globalist service workers in the intelligence communities what is it that they have in mind for trump supporters?
What is it that they want from trump supporters?

[bluestflame]

imPvpG6asYg

i found this breakdown of the Q phenomenon

[Omni]

Does anyone else find it odd or maybe annoying the way Q tells us to 'enjoy the show'?

I can understand not calling to organize or demonstrate or anything like that as the mainstream would go bananas but why, if he's taking everything so seriously, 'enjoy the show'? Like reinforcing our already long-engrained passivity? We've been a nation of watchers for a long time. For watchers, everything becomes entertainment. I would think he/it/they wouldn't want to become just more entertainment if for real...

Some really good points. Alternative media is engulfed in apathy from new age ascension psyop, mainstream is engulfed in an apathetic God spell. The shadow government promotes social systems which proliferate a reliance on a higher power because they have taken that position. They want to have an easier time controlling the world, this is why you see so much in society antithetical to action. The population is dumbed down, drugged, zombified, targeted, poisoned, and brainwashed. Entertainment over self development. Greed over the collective. Poison over purity.

[ThePythonicCow]

Neon Revolt just posted a good detailed analysis of Q's "Free Speech Systems" drop of a few days ago. I'm posting a link to this analysis in this thread, so that it doesn't get lost and forgotten between now and when the proper QAnon thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters&p=1246963&viewfull=1#post1246963) on which to post this on reopens tomorrow.

Here's this Neon Revolt article: Goodbye, Mr. Rosenstein! THE WORLD IS CHANGING! (https://www.neonrevolt.com/2018/09/08/goodbye-mr-rosenstein-the-world-is-changing-newq-qanon-greatawakening-neonrevolt/).

This Neon Revolt article is not really likely to be the sort of article that those who have serious doubts about Q will find useful reading. The gist of Neon Revolt's conclusions regarding the "Free Speech Systems" location in Austin, Texas is that Alex Jones has complex ties with the Bronfman family and various other "dual citizen" (Israeli-American) people.

[norman]

What worries me is the hidden nature, and 'coding' of the posts, why not just be very clear, very open about the information, why present it in this strange, games-like way?




The logical answer, rightly or wrongly, is that the official secrets laws would be broken by plain announcements. A lot of what Q implies, if true, would certainly be covered by a secrecy classification.

[Omni]

Neon Revolt just posted a good detailed analysis of Q's "Free Speech Systems" drop of a few days ago. I'm posting a link to this analysis in this thread, so that it doesn't get lost and forgotten between now and when the proper QAnon thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters&p=1246963&viewfull=1#post1246963) on which to post this on reopens tomorrow.

Here's this Neon Revolt article: Goodbye, Mr. Rosenstein! THE WORLD IS CHANGING! (https://www.neonrevolt.com/2018/09/08/goodbye-mr-rosenstein-the-world-is-changing-newq-qanon-greatawakening-neonrevolt/).

This Neon Revolt article is not really likely to be the sort of article that those who have serious doubts about Q will find useful reading. The gist of Neon Revolt's conclusions regarding the "Free Speech Systems" location in Austin, Texas is that Alex Jones has complex ties with the Bronfman family and various other "dual citizen" (Israeli-American) people.
Have you seen what has been happening to Alex Jones? He is being crucified, de-platformed, censored, demonetized, and sued. They are full spectrum destroying him while trends on twitter cheer it on. Then you have the alt media aspects of it, people thinking he is Mossad or some sort of plant. Alt media turns on itself while it's most important opposition are destroyed. Can we not see this clearly enough?

[ThePythonicCow]

Have you seen what has been happening to Alex Jones? He is being crucified, de-platformed, censored, demonetized, and sued. They are full spectrum destroying him while trends on twitter cheer it on. Then you have the alt media aspects of it, people thinking he is Mossad or some sort of plant. Alt media turns on itself while it's most important opposition are destroyed. Can we not see this clearly enough?
Yes - I can see that. I am one of many members contributing to the YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103766-YouTube-Facebook-Apple-and-Spotify-all-ban-Alex-Jones-Infowars&p=1240248&viewfull=1#post1240248) thread, discussing that attack on the alt-media, in particular on Alex Jones and Infowars.

But - the question to which I have two, quite contradictory, answers:

Are we seeing the evil bastards attack an essentially more honest alt-media, or are we seeing a staged Punch and Judy show, in which both the main stream media and the more prominent alternative media are controlled by the elite bastards?

[Jayke]

Have you seen what has been happening to Alex Jones? He is being crucified, de-platformed, censored, demonetized, and sued. They are full spectrum destroying him while trends on twitter cheer it on. Then you have the alt media aspects of it, people thinking he is Mossad or some sort of plant. Alt media turns on itself while it's most important opposition are destroyed. Can we not see this clearly enough?
Yes - I can see that. I am one of many members contributing to the YouTube, Facebook, Apple and Spotify all ban Alex Jones & Infowars (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103766-YouTube-Facebook-Apple-and-Spotify-all-ban-Alex-Jones-Infowars&p=1240248&viewfull=1#post1240248) thread, discussing that attack on the alt-media, in particular on Alex Jones and Infowars.

But - the question to which I have two, quite contradictory, answers:

Are we seeing the evil bastards attack an essentially more honest alt-media, or are we seeing a staged Punch and Judy show, in which both the main stream media and the more prominent alternative media are controlled by the elite bastards?

Not to mention the fact that Alex Jones still remains popular and supported among ‘The Network Society’, despite any dubious connections and patronage he might have (as long as he keeps challenging the deep state and directing attention to expose the swamp critters, his popularity will remain high). The social media phenomenon of shadow banning makes people seem more or less popular than they really are—it skews the optics—but it doesn’t change the undercurrents. Trumps popularity remains high despite the daily character assassinations in the mainstream press. The same will be true for Alex Jones.

(Cut to 1:10 in the vid below to fast-forward through Dr Turleys self promotion, to where he keeps us abreast of the Alex Jones saga and dynamics)
VfbvwTrml-k
I was reading Paul’s article from Neonrevolt, and it got me thinking of another hypothesis for the Q phenomena. Could it be as simple as Intelligence Outsourcing (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_outsourcing)? The deep state spends billions a year outsourcing intelligence gathering services to private companies. Whoever is behind Q has created an army of intelligence analysts, for which they pay the princely sum of $0.0000. Billions spent by the deep state vs zero dollars by the Q team. That kind of tactical advantage will bankrupt the opposition rather rapidly in whatever game of faction warfare is being played out behind the scenes.

[Jayke]

Impeccable timing from David Wilcock, a timely release on his blog. I’ve not read it yet, but how much shall we bet that Q gets brought up into the dramatic unfolding of the events described by his secret insiders...

Stunning New Briefings: Spy Satellites Down, Deep State Arrests Finally Imminent? (https://divinecosmos.com/davids-blog/22005-stunning-new-briefings-spy-satellites-down-deep-state-arrests-finally-imminent?utm_source=ONTRAPORT-email-broadcast&utm_medium=ONTRAPORT-email-broadcast&utm_term=&utm_content=Stunning+New+Briefings%3A+Spy+Satellites+Down%2C+Deep+State+Arrests+Finally+Imminent%3F&utm_campaign=09082018)

Update: It didn’t take Wilcock long to not only mention Q, but basically take credit for the whole movement :ROFL:


MEGA ANON MAY HAVE INSPIRED Q ANON

Mega Anon’s work may well have given the Alliance the inspiration it needed to discover a way to communicate securely to the public, as well as to their own covert units.

The first Q Anon posts appeared on 4Chan just seventeen days after I threw Mega Anon’s 4Chan work into the limelight with Is Something Very Big About to Happen?

I must say that I am very, very happy that the Alliance has started communicating their plans openly to the public through the Q Anon posts.

I was aware that these plans were in the works for many, many years, and often felt as if I was one of the only people out there telling you about it.

I have supported the Alliance military and intelligence community in what they are trying to do with this enormously complex operation all along.

[mgray]

My thoughts (https://grayseconomy.com/2018/09/09/game-update-its-deep-state-4-q-2-but-its-only-the-third-inning/) on the divisiveness of Q, besides the Republican vs Democratic partisanship.

[greybeard]

Any long time member of Avalon will have seen it all before.
I gave up on hoping for change in this area a long while ago
Yes it changes but its slow and subtle.
Is it getting "better" is it getting "worse"--I dont know
Im maybe just cynical.

Chris

[Foxie Loxie]

Thanks, mgray.....an excellent, well written article...as always!! :highfive:

[Matthew]

I've seen some odd behaviour in threads related to Q. (<- edited line)

But anyway. This was the most enlightening video for me, in Rachel's post:

The grand reveal is at 28m 36s ( direct link there (https://youtu.be/cKSUlfT_MnM?t=28m36s) )


cKSUlfT_MnM

I don’t support the title of the video unless you consider personal testimony valid evidence but there are plenty of details given that may prove enlightening on closer inspection. For example; if Q no longer predicts Trump tweets then that supports the claim about the method used to make those predictions. Or, if Q continues to predict Trump tweets (and the tool still doesn’t show them in advance at this time) then that invalidates that claim.

Credit to RaiseMachine for sharing this video HERE (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103970-Jordan-Sather-goes-on-Comedy-Central-w-Jim-Jefferies-to-talk-QAnon&p=1244836&viewfull=1#post1244836).

[Joe from the Carolinas]

*/Mod hat on*


May I ask a point of clarification? This comment Joe was a little confusing, "not be a place to push Q posts or convince disbelievers that they are wrong." I know its a fine line sometimes between convince or offer alternative view so just wanted to make sure alternative view is allowed? Thanks
PS: Im totally ok staying off the thread and no feelings hurt if that is the wish of management.

Hi Mojo! Thank you for asking for clarification. I think your earlier post in this thread is a great way to rephrase what I was meaning :)


Ty KiwiElf for creating this thread. Those with an opposing view can share without feeling supporters of Q aren't being attacked, and it sure makes sense.

:happythumbsup:



Everyone, I am currently in process of moving all posts in this thread discussing and reacting to the Q Anon Update thread closure HERE (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104200-Discussion-about-Q-Thread-Closings&p=1247065#post1247065).

:focus:

[Helene West]

Odd...

But anyway. This was the most enlightening video for me, in Rachel's post:

The grand reveal is at 28m 36s ( direct link there (https://youtu.be/cKSUlfT_MnM?t=28m36s) )


cKSUlfT_MnM

I don’t support the title of the video unless you consider personal testimony valid evidence but there are plenty of details given that may prove enlightening on closer inspection. For example; if Q no longer predicts Trump tweets then that supports the claim about the method used to make those predictions. Or, if Q continues to predict Trump tweets (and the tool still doesn’t show them in advance at this time) then that invalidates that claim.

Credit to RaiseMachine for sharing this video HERE (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103970-Jordan-Sather-goes-on-Comedy-Central-w-Jim-Jefferies-to-talk-QAnon&p=1244836&viewfull=1#post1244836).

I watched half of this. The world behind message boards and youtube channels and tracing/tracking what goes on there is over my head.
I didn't need any of it to have misgivings about Q. Without knowing any of this I've had my hunches, my intuitions and my own tired little brain and that's why I'm on this thread.

That being said so much of this could be obviated by lessening cult of personlity and sticking to issues. I could care less if someone wants to try and make a buck selling Q tee shirs BUT it's very disconcerting if this Patriot Soapbox he refers to is responsible for deplatforming Alex Jones. I'm working as I write and don't have the hours in the day to research and read and listen to everything I should or would like to.

My bottom line is I'm anti-globalist and if some platform appears to my inner sense to help awaken or strengthen any anti-globalist/anti-humanity movement then I'm for it.

Add - I still don't buy Q are private citizens, young people 'larping' or whatever it's called. For me it's either real or Intelligence agencies disinfo/cointelpro type project.

[Ernie Nemeth]

This world is a seething caldron of conflicting interests aggravated by leveraged advantage, mistrust, and greed that instills an overall sense of dread, fear, and apathy in the minds of the general public.

In this atmosphere, leaders of the world must be cunning, secretive, wealthy, self-serving, egoists or else they will soon become so by necessity or face political suicide for upholding their integrity.

Resist or capitulate is the choice for the masses, the true choice being the choice between a slow death or a fast one since neither path has a viable future. Society must have a goal...


If this reality has any meaning, then the truth is we are not alone and contact is being sought and returned essentially unanswered. Contact between worlds does not happen between individuals but between Societies. As a united front, we have no voice. There is nowhere and no institution that can claim such a consensus voice. No civilized world looks upon our world as united, as deserving of membership.
So in such a situation contact can only be made between individuals, unofficially. All the while, officially, no contact has ever been made. This type of contact is often not beneficial to the lesser society...

A hundred years is a wink of time for a true civilization. In ours, it is arguably half of our current scientific age, give or take. These other worlds plan generations beyond our scope, to them contact hasn't just begun, it is almost over. And still we have no collective voice... This places an unprecedented level of pressure on the leaders of our world. Contact has happened, is happening, will continue to happen with or without a united front, as individuals, as a wild new frontier, one in which our society suffers, or as two societies interchanging culture and knowledge, together and in peace.

I believe this is what is at stake underneath the rhetoric. The rest is just distraction. Much has to be revealed. Much has to be destroyed. Much has to be rebuilt. Much has to be completely new. Much has yet to be understood. But in the end, we need to unite. In common cause and in common sense we must unite. But first we must go through the long cold night. It is not going to be pretty. It is not going to be fun. But we must face our demons and vanquish our minds of the illusion that strength is in belonging to this or that minority.

We really do have common cause, that is merely common sense. Ask anybody...

[Dennis Leahy]

As I said on the "q" thread, when I heard that "q" had targeted Iran for regime change, I went into the main "q" thread and asked if it was true. Several said, "no", or asked for a reference. I supplied a reference, and followed-up the supplied links to what I assume is "the source" or at least a complete, searchable listing of q posts, and posted the exact words q used.

Some members see this as an attack. Yes, it is an attack on the credibility of q. I wasn't attacking members.

If you are a peace activist 7/24/365.25, you damn well know that the phrase "regime change" is a not-so-subtle euphemism for destruction of a government, often the murder of the leader/figurehead, and installation of a new and more pliable figurehead. There were several attempts in the q thread to deflect or gloss over the accepted meaning of that phrase or to pretend it had a completely different meaning. If anyone is sincerely in doubt at the dark meaning of the phrase "regime change", they may want to do an internet search and read a few hundred places where the phrase is used, and what it ACTUALLY means.

Oh well, q was just rallying the people of Iran to oust their current regime, say others. However, as I pointed out, "regime change" in Iran is loudly being called for by netanyahu and zionist israel, as well as the "Deep State." They have for years, but it is again at fever pitch powerfully underscored by trump's allegiance to zionist israel and his calls for regime change in Iran. So, when q echoes netanyahu and the deep state, that is noteworthy. That is a big deal. What is even more telling is that there really are 2 terrorist states operating in the Middle East: israel and saudi arabia, and q kinda sorta forgot to mention them as countries that need a regime change, skipping over them to mention Iran.

This should SCREAM at anyone who was on the fence about whether q is "the good guys", unless you consider israel and saudi arabia as the good guys.

Possibly even more upsetting to some members is that I also see who trump is, and loudly proclaim it - just as I have done with other top-tier miscreants such as the clintons, the bushes, obama, sanders, pelosi, schumer, mccain, warren,... all zionists, all mobsters, all sociopaths, all corporatists, all militarists. trump is different in a way not so much because he is essentially different than they are, but because he clashed with the plan to shoehorn killary into the big chair. It's a faction war. Mobsters vs. mobsters. I don't separate the moderately evil from the most evil. I know that some see trump as anti-globalist, and that that alone says he's anti-NWO, and therefore a good guy, but don't seem to pay attention to what corporations that trump IS assisting, including the military/security industrial complex which is the enforcement wing of the globalists.

I'm sorry that trump isn't the hero that some of you believe he is. I do hope he nails obama and hillary to a cross, but if he does, it will be more of a "St. Valentine's Day massacre" scene, where one group of mobsters eliminates another group of mobsters. I would applaud, even though I know it is not going to "fix" the malevolent, terroristic, imperialist USA, INC.

Discussion of trump within the context of q is germane, as q is prominent pro-trump propaganda.

A "psy-op?" Yes. To manipulate and obfuscate the perception of trump's awful foreign and domestic policy, attempting to overshadow trumps actual policy with visions of him as an anti-NWO hero and/or anti-pedophile hero or the hero that prosecutes all the bad guys in the USA, INC federal government. Remember not to allow your eyes to be drawn to the beautiful magician's assistant's legs or cleavage - watch the magician's hands. Pay attention to what trump is actually doing, not what q wants you to focus on.

[onawah]

Special thanks to Ernie Nemeth and Dennis Leary for voicing my own concerns so well. When this forum is being monopolized by all this speculation about Q, it really makes me wonder. Those of us who have experience with and understand something about what Contact really means, who have become disillusioned enough by the political messes that our so-called squabbling "leaders" have been generating for far too long, know that what is needed is to trade in the microscopes that have been spending so much time trained on things like deciphering Q clues--for macroscopes that will tell us much more about what place we should be creating for ourselves in the greater galactic community. I don't think it's technology that is going to do that for us though it will play a part, but our coming of age as spiritual beings who understand that if we are children, we are first children of this amazing planet that gives us life and sustenance. It's about time we grew up and started valuing her the way She should be valued instead of fouling our nest. That could give us the credit we need to show ourselves as ready to step up and respectfully greet our benevolent ET ancestors who might be so kind as to deal with us with wisdom and compassion.

[norman]

As I said on the "q" thread, when I heard that "q" had targeted Iran for regime change, I went into the main "q" thread and asked if it was true. Several said, "no", or asked for a reference. I supplied a reference, and followed-up the supplied links to what I assume is "the source" or at least a complete, searchable listing of q posts, and posted the exact words q used.

Some members see this as an attack. Yes, it is an attack on the credibility of q. I wasn't attacking members.

If you are a peace activist 7/24/365.25, you damn well know that the phrase "regime change" is a not-so-subtle euphemism for destruction of a government, often the murder of the leader/figurehead, and installation of a new and more pliable figurehead. There were several attempts in the q thread to deflect or gloss over the accepted meaning of that phrase or to pretend it had a completely different meaning. If anyone is sincerely in doubt at the dark meaning of the phrase "regime change", they may want to do an internet search and read a few hundred places where the phrase is used, and what it ACTUALLY means.

Oh well, q was just rallying the people of Iran to oust their current regime, say others. However, as I pointed out, "regime change" in Iran is loudly being called for by netanyahu and zionist israel, as well as the "Deep State." They have for years, but it is again at fever pitch powerfully underscored by trump's allegiance to zionist israel and his calls for regime change in Iran. So, when q echoes netanyahu and the deep state, that is noteworthy. That is a big deal. What is even more telling is that there really are 2 terrorist states operating in the Middle East: israel and saudi arabia, and q kinda sorta forgot to mention them as countries that need a regime change, skipping over them to mention Iran.

This should SCREAM at anyone who was on the fence about whether q is "the good guys", unless you consider israel and saudi arabia as the good guys.

Possibly even more upsetting to some members is that I also see who trump is, and loudly proclaim it - just as I have done with other top-tier miscreants such as the clintons, the bushes, obama, sanders, pelosi, schumer, mccain, warren,... all zionists, all mobsters, all sociopaths, all corporatists, all militarists. trump is different in a way not so much because he is essentially different than they are, but because he clashed with the plan to shoehorn killary into the big chair. It's a faction war. Mobsters vs. mobsters. I don't separate the moderately evil from the most evil. I know that some see trump as anti-globalist, and that that alone says he's anti-NWO, and therefore a good guy, but don't seem to pay attention to what corporations that trump IS assisting, including the military/security industrial complex which is the enforcement wing of the globalists.

I'm sorry that trump isn't the hero that some of you believe he is. I do hope he nails obama and hillary to a cross, but if he does, it will be more of a "St. Valentine's Day massacre" scene, where one group of mobsters eliminates another group of mobsters. I would applaud, even though I know it is not going to "fix" the malevolent, terroristic, imperialist USA, INC.

Discussion of trump within the context of q is germane, as q is prominent pro-trump propaganda.

A "psy-op?" Yes. To manipulate and obfuscate the perception of trump's awful foreign and domestic policy, attempting to overshadow trumps actual policy with visions of him as an anti-NWO hero and/or anti-pedophile hero or the hero that prosecutes all the bad guys in the USA, INC federal government. Remember not to allow your eyes to be drawn to the beautiful magician's assistant's legs or cleavage - watch the magician's hands. Pay attention to what trump is actually doing, not what q wants you to focus on.


Now you've got your perfect platform, go for it.


Show us all what you stand for.


No snide remarks now, no belittling people. We're not all as wise yet.

[ThePythonicCow]

My thoughts (https://grayseconomy.com/2018/09/09/game-update-its-deep-state-4-q-2-but-its-only-the-third-inning/) on the divisiveness of Q, besides the Republican vs Democratic partisanship.

:clapping: .

[Helene West]

@Onawah Post#42 -
"... One theory I have now is that Trump is being used to usher in the next Administration headed by Pence, whose religious views would become a huge bone of contention.
This would suit the globalist's plans to create lots of chaos and ideological and religious tension in the world by weakening borders between countries, moving massive numbers of refugees into cultures where they are unable or unwilling to assimilate and disempowering women thereby, creating false flag terrorist events, etc. and making martial law an ever more likely possibility. Some sources say their goal is to make the Muslim faith the NWO religion. This would make sense because it is so male-dominated religion, and the globalists like hierarchy and tyranny. Pence as POTUS would make the Left even more hysterical than they are now..."


I agree that the globalists like Islam as a tool of chaos/tyranny and it certainly seems to be their choice tool for the destruction of Europe.... I have mixed feelings about your contention on Pence for which you're not alone. I've heard a few people express this. If Pence gets in the white house that means trump chose to leave or is removed in some way and either way spells Trauma for the country. The dems would follow on his heels but there really is no democratic party, it is now the shadow government party, the globalist arm in the U.S., that is if you believe there is a semblance of two parties.
Would this degree of trauma be recoverable? Normally I would say yes - human resourcefulness would prevail but because of the kind of technology unfolding, human resourcefulness and the thirst for freedom could be very near the end game.


But back to Q.
Barry Soetoro is hitting the campaign trail. It is worrisome I think because if the white hats, supposedly 'Q', were winning wouldn't he be keeping a low profile? the spying, obstruction and criminality sources from his administration but he seems confident enough to begin rolling out his phony blather in front of the cameras once again.
He still has top security clearance and if he saw anything in intelligence briefings to indicate he was in trouble I think he'd stay relaxing like he was for awhile in the South pacific... Why is he not worried?

[Dennis Leahy]

Now you've got your perfect platform, go for it.What is the "perfect platform?" Do you mean that you see this thread as safe haven against being passive-aggressively or even aggressively attacked in the q thread, for being a non-believer in q and trump? I guess I could just hop back into the q thread, where half a dozen people are making disparaging remarks about me and "explaining" my motives and probable affiliations - for exposing the truth. Is that more of a "fair fight?", a less-than-perfect platform for dissenting?



Show us all what you stand for.
I stand for the truth, Norman. I stand for peace - not just the lack of active war, but also in recognition of modern imperialist war tactics that John Perkins beautifully exposed in "Confessions of an Economic Hitman." I stand for the exploited, the oppressed, the murdered, the injured, the displaced, the victims of the malevolent US and globalist rulers that view 99.9% of humanity as cattle, canon fodder, squatters sitting on coveted resources. I know who the bad guys were at Standing Rock. I know who the bad guys are in Palestine. I know who the bad guys are in Syria. I know who the bad guys are in Washington, DC, and I don't pretend that half of them are benevolent. I know who the enemy of humanity is.



No snide remarks now, no belittling people. We're not all as wise yet.This is, of course, a snide remark from you to me, to try to make it seem that snide remarks is my modus operandi. Well played.

If you want to discuss the truth, with factual examples, about any of the ruling elite - including but not limited to trump - I'm happy to. If you expect me to dignify these miscreants, to coddle the mobsters, well, no, I won't. I will continue to show my contempt for the contemptible.

p.s. to add that the "Russian collusion" zeppelin is just that - a giant gasbag. 100% bs from hillary to try to deflect from the hot water she should have been boiled alive in. Also, the "media" really is a deep state tool, just like trump said, and nearly 100% lies (and lies of omission.) trump IS being attacked, by bad guys. And, if trump is being attacked by known ruling elite psychopaths (he is), then he must be a good guy, that's the reasoning I see put forth by trump supporters. I get where the confusion is coming from. But being attacked by hillary or bernie or mccain doesn't mean someone is a good guy - it means a different, very powerful and very malevolent group of gangsters is in a turf war, and trump is sitting in the seat hillary so coveted. I'm outside the false dichotomy. The dnc corporation is just as evil as the rnc corporation. The rnc corporation is holding the talking stick - the power - now, so I direct my ire at the rnc and its spokesmodel. For the past 8 years, my ire was directed at obomber, and in the run-up to the last election, I constantly ripped killary and barney a new a**hole with my keyboard, because they were in power and the apparent heir to power. I look at the whole problem, not half of it.

[AutumnW]

Q is not credible.

[AutumnW]

Wow Dennis, You're catching some flak for being one of the clearest thinkers and best social/political analysts on the forum. I am sorry to see this happen.

[Valerie Villars]

Well, I'm beginning to wonder just who the hell IS credible. Maybe only those who have integrity. But you have to know/watch a person for a long time to determine that. It just seems like every thing on this planet is corrupted to some degree. Sorry. Sometimes I get a little existentialistic.

[AutumnW]

Well, I'm beginning to wonder just who the hell IS credible. Maybe only those who have integrity. But you have to know/watch a person for a long time to determine that. It just seems like every thing on this planet is corrupted to some degree. Sorry. Sometimes I get a little existentialistic.

Yes, you must have knowledge of the person, or be able to cross reference their info with other credible sources. There are many people who lie for fun and profit. They find our vulnerable areas and exploit them.

[ThePythonicCow]

Q is not credible.


Well, I'm beginning to wonder just who the hell IS credible.


Yes, you must have knowledge of the person, or be able to cross reference their info with other credible sources.
I moved these posts to this thread, from the The Qanon posts (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters&p=1247153&viewfull=1#post1247153) thread, as they seemed to fit better here.

[Innocent Warrior]

Beautifully stated posts by Dennis.

How does Iran not remind absolutely everyone of Iraq in the 90s? Before the pre-emptive strike by the coalition of the willing came 9/11, before that was the sanctions. Now look at what’s going on in Iran since Trump withdrew from the Iran deal, which reportedly happened after Israel gave Trump a report of documents stolen from Iran. It was “a brave decision and it is a bold withdrawal from a disastrous deal” according to Netanyahu.

History is prologue.

I know an Iranian who was in their military. He said our media stories on nukes is a total joke and that they’ve had them for decades. What chills me now is a couple of years ago he said the exact words that their military general recently said; that if we start war with them they’ll end it and it will be the mother of all wars.

I just can’t take this anymore, seeing these bastards crush the lives of millions, all the freaking time. I don’t care what nationality anyone is. It’s not OK that people in Iran are suffering like they are, it’s not OK what the Syrians have to endure and on and on and on. It’s as if it’s not a horrendous crime against humanity if it’s not happening to the US or her allies. Grow up patriots! It’s a ruse to get you to kill fellow humans and die for your country. Vets suffer because war is wrong, it’s a disgrace to our race.

And then to see fellow Avalonians putting their hopes in any of those bastards is just too exasperating. Please don’t bother arguing with me, I won’t read it. Time to move on to REAL solutions for me.

I’m no political expert but I know Dennis speaks truth that is revealed with heart, he deserves better than what has been written here.

[abmqa]

Beautifully stated posts by Dennis.

How does Iran not remind absolutely everyone of Iraq in the 90s? Before the pre-emptive strike by the coalition of the willing came 9/11, before that was the sanctions. Now look at what’s going on in Iran since Trump withdrew from the Iran deal, which reportedly happened after Israel gave Trump a report of documents stolen from Iran. It was “a brave decision and it is a bold withdrawal from a disastrous deal” according to Netanyahu.

History is prologue.

I know an Iranian who was in their military. He said our media stories on nukes is a total joke and that they’ve had them for decades. What chills me now is a couple of years ago he said the exact words that their military general recently said; that if we start war with them they’ll end it and it will be the mother of all wars.

I just can’t take this anymore, seeing these bastards crush the lives of millions, all the freaking time. I don’t care what nationality anyone is. It’s not OK that people in Iran are suffering like they are, it’s not OK what the Syrians have to endure and on and on and on. It’s as if it’s not a horrendous crime against humanity if it’s not happening to the US or her allies. Grow up patriots! It’s a ruse to get you to kill fellow humans and die for your country. Vets suffer because war is wrong, it’s a disgrace to our race.

And then to see fellow Avalonians putting their hopes in any of those bastards is just too exasperating. Please don’t bother arguing with me, I won’t read it. Time to move on to REAL solutions for me.

I’m no political expert but I know Dennis speaks truth that is revealed with heart, he deserves better than what has been written here.

Trump selects John Bolton as his 3rd National Security Advisor...

Hmm..... Where have we heard that name. Come on PA members, we all know what he is about..or we should if we have been paying attention. Its all spelled out in the infamous PNAC document. I'm fairly sure most of us are familiar with it. Trump's actions speaks (as he would say) Bigly. (and is that even a word? :facepalm:)

[Sierra]

Thank you Rachel. It is terrifying to see the war machine turning from the Syrian rubble in their direction.

[Bill Ryan]

Well, I'm beginning to wonder just who the hell IS credible. Maybe only those who have integrity.

Allow me to step in here for a moment. :) (I'd decided earlier I wasn't going to post here about this, as my views are already known.)

It's an important general question, and it's been debated extensively in the UFO field and others.

Richard Dolan has said it well: as a serious researcher, he needs to know who someone is, when they're presenting information that they are urging us to believe.

That means we need to know their real name, their background, have sight of their DD214 if they were in the US military, and as much documentary evidence as possible.

Without those things, a campfire story (as Richard calls it) may be interesting, and should be noted, but NOT counted as meaningful evidence.

And to say it's just the same as the other guy's campfire story, means nothing.

If it wouldn't count in a court of law, it shouldn't count in our court, either.

Again, 'campfire stories' (unprovable claims) should maybe be heard, remembered, noted, and not erased from the public record. Unless it's an almost certainly established psy-op, they shouldn't be censored or silenced. There's value in considering them as potentially real.

But more is needed if important decisions are to be made. Otherwise, it's a mixture of entertainment, and preaching from a pulpit.

And in both those instances, the people are kept captive as an audience, may be inspired and fed with hope, but ultimately they may be disempowered, as they are mere observers. They're doing nothing at all, and it's really just more TV. (And the Secret Space program so-called 'whistleblowers' do this, too.)

:focus:

[samildamach]

I was expecting more from this thread, some definitive proof against q.
That being said q is without question a psyop by it's very clandestine nature,huge resources, inside information,its ever growing influence on the general public,and army of anons.
This has become a powerful well organised movement in it's own right.
My questions are
1) is the psyop just for the repulicans,my worry is that they are doing such a hit job on the democrats they will be uneletable again in my life time and the USA will be a one party state.
2) what is the end game,believe me they have one.
Is it a power grab,is it putting power back in the hands of the people,is it draining the swamp.
Is Trump trying to add his family name the the 13 family's that rule the world.
3)does q work for Trump or Trump for q?.
Having a puppet president dancing on the Strings of the military could be just as bad as Obama being the Manchurian candidate of the deep state.

We all have to think end game not the short term wins

[Baby Steps]

So, see the following from one of the Q anon proofs (https://qanonproofs.com/) sites:


On April 8th 2018, Q makes a post including the line "Auth B19-2" A week later, the official Department of Defense Twitter creates a tweet that matches Q's post. Two B-1B bomber planes, armed with 19 JASSM-ER missiles. A​ ​@28thBombWing #B1B Lancer takes off on a strike mission April 13, in support of the multinational response to ​#​Syria's recent use of chemical weapons. Two B-1Bs employed 19 JASSM-ER, the first combat employment of the weapon.​ #AirPower pic.twitter.com/XVzZEodHN3 — U.S. Dept of Defense (@DeptofDefense) April 15, 2018 ...


https://i.imgur.com/flQeyOq.png

This gives one a feel for the mentality of the people behind this. They think nothing of boasting of mobilising an apocalyptic weapon system , to be used to ILLEGALLY ATTACK a sovereign state, with DJT endorsing the British/Deep state 'Assad Chemical attack' psi op.

If I could I would ask these people to think about what kind of impression they are giving. The tone of Q is attracting some very nasty ultra right people in the UK. What would be good to see is reassurance that illegal aggression is seen as a bad thing generally...

[Vangelo]

... trump IS being attacked, by bad guys. And, if trump is being attacked by known ruling elite psychopaths (he is), then he must be a good guy, that's the reasoning I see put forth by trump supporters. I get where the confusion is coming from. But being attacked by hillary or bernie or mccain doesn't mean someone is a good guy - it means a different, very powerful and very malevolent group of gangsters is in a turf war, and trump is sitting in the seat hillary so coveted. I'm outside the false dichotomy. The dnc corporation is just as evil as the rnc corporation. The rnc corporation is holding the talking stick - the power - now, so I direct my ire at the rnc and its spokesmodel. ... I look at the whole problem, not half of it.

Well said (RE: they are equally corrupt). The phrase 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend' acknowledges that the friend in this case is still your enemy. I interpret your post to be a warning i.e. lets not forget that the friendly enemy is still your enemy.

Having said that, I don't believe Trump is so naive as to believe the RNC is truly supporting him. They too are part of the swamp. For now, he needs the RNC to fight this battle. I do believe the majority of Trump supports know this.

I read your post to also say, Trump is evil too. I agree in that I also believe his motives are in service to him personally. He is motivated to be the top dog and will indeed step on others. However, I believe he wants to do this within a government and political structure based on the unencumbered, sovereign individual. This is the basis of the Constitution. For me, this is the battle. On the other hand, the RNC and DNC are motivated to diminish if not destroy that concept.

[Hervé]

For some other version of some events:

FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION, USE YOUR DISCRETION: CBTS_Stream Baker Insider Email Evidence Reveal: WHO IS Q? (https://throughthelookingglassnews.wordpress.com/2018/05/29/for-your-consideration-use-your-discretion-who-is-q/)


https://throughthelookingglassnews.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/neo-meets-deus-ex-machina-banner-who-is-q.jpg?w=816



Author: The Infomaniac (https://throughthelookingglassnews.wordpress.com/author/throughthelookingglassnews/)
Date: May 29, 2018 (https://throughthelookingglassnews.wordpress.com/2018/05/29/for-your-consideration-use-your-discretion-who-is-q/)
From https://pastebin.com/dZbP9hCt

CBTS_STREAM BAKER INSIDER EMAIL EVIDENCE REVEAL

UNIRock “Qanon Phenomenon Investigation part 46 – the baker reveal email.”

This email was leaked from an insider Baker that worked with the CBTS_(crew) behind the scenes.

In this email he “LEAKS” all information about what Qanon really is, his participation along with the other “Bakers” and their role in the deception.

Compiled by UNIRock & #ROCKaSQUAD for dissemination to the truther community to be considered in any level of their understanding of the situation.

————————————————————————————————————————

From: Murk Murk
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 12:11 AM
To: unirocktv@gmail.com
Subject: CBTS Baker setting story straight. I’m tired of the lies. Q tell all.Just the truth.

”QBRD_BAKER” here

I’m here to separate FACT from FICTION.

For a couple of month’s, I tried to set things straight. I eventually gave up trying because every time I posted anything to tell the truth it was quickly deleted off the board, and people were too brainwashed by this point.

Everyone affiliated with CBTS were quick to label me or others a “SHILL” when posting things on the board. They told Anons to ignore my posts and they followed marching orders like the sheep they’ve become. It’s really sad! The one thing we were trying to push, on everyone, not to be.

Let me explain. I’m one of the original members of the CBTS group/bakers/Mods – or whatever you want to call us. I ended up bailing from the group, as did many others, and because of the **** that this all turned in to.

I happened to come across your recent live stream today 5/5/18, where you were covering Dr. Corsi. Watching it made my blood boil for one, because of the lies and deception that is still going on, but I also felt full of guilt because I was a part of all this ****.

I want to set things right and I’m hoping you can get my words out for me to those who are willing to listen. I want to clear my conscience by doing this too. I’m no SHILL! And I am all for taking back my government!

I also want the truth out once and for all because I can’t continue to see true Americans, honest people, and those wanting something better for this country to be taken advantage of any longer.

I have nothing to gain, and nothing to lose by doing this. All I want is for the truth to be told once and for all! Don’t allow the real SHILLS and Famefags, which consists of anyone affiliated to CBTS/8chan/4chan to take advantage of all of you true Americans!!!

Here are the FACTS:
Yes, there are positive changes going on in our country that have everything to do with GEOTUS! They have nothing to do with “Q.” Yes, we started this to rally up patriots for a common cause. Yes, we had good intentions – in the beginning. We wanted to create something positive even [if] it was a bit deceptive (it was for a good cause we thought).

And I say this with so much guilt, No, there is no real Q member or members within the government or in the military giving us intel. It’s the truth!

I want everyone to know though that the intensions behind all of this were noble and honest at first, but it eventually changed, and people in the group got greedy, big headed, egotistical and all they saw were dollar signs coming out of this. Basically, they chose to become the famefags they are now! It sickens my stomach that I didn’t cut ties in all this sooner! I’ll be even more honest with you. There were a lot of us to start in all this, but many got booted out because they questioned things, because they didn’t want to comply with Baruch or Pamphlet, or because there were too many members to share the “wealth” with. I’ll point out additional facts and point you to the sauce on this for you to follow up on!

I’ll tell you who’s the real Q. It is everyone who clicked up with CBTS. Pamphlet Anon, Pam’s wife, Baruch the Scribe, Farmer Funk, Code Monkey, Obobo, Rain, Tracybeanz, and to a big extent Dr Corsi (unknowingly at first, but I’m sure Corsi was let on to the truth later on, IDK for sure because I had left the group but I’m pretty sure he knows the truth) are the major players that you know of (BO’s, mods, bakers etc); there were lots of us from, halfchan, reddit, and infinitychan. Each and every one of us has their own “expertise” to contribute and that’s what we did; even very useful techy members like code monkey as a great example. If **** got too heated in the kitchen, and you were considered a threat to the “plan,” guess what, you were outed!

That’s exactly what kept happening. If drama broke out, a new discord server was created, a new board was created, you were banned, and more important, you were booted from the group and threatened. Everyone knew going in this that if one person said anything than everyone was going down together. We don’t Doxx Q is how it was put! It would be a “****storm” for all of us! This is how “WWG1WGA” came about. We are in this **** together and we’ll go down together if **** got out. The “****storm” fell in line with the storm.

This is also where the whole “double meaning” came in. We had thought this **** out really well and we all helped to create the lie. We also knew going in that if we were going to do this we needed to cover our bases. Which is how we came-up with “disinformation is necessary,” “future proves past,” along with a many other cheeky words: crumbs, bread, bakers, red pill, etc. Think about! Do you really think some special intel person would know all these chan terms? (Autists, Anons, Bakers, Normies, etc.) Is it clearer now? We made all this **** up!

Even when mistakes were made, and they were, we were able to trick people that **** was intentional: misspellings, initials. It’s even how other Q’s were created. We accidentally let it slip that there were many of us within the posts so people said – “oh they must be a group!” we rolled with it! We did this **** on a constant. People swallowed this **** up just as we hoped. There were times some members made fun of those people that did and they laughed at them. I would feel so bad at the time, but I won’t lie, I did laugh too sometimes not thinking of my actions.

This would later catch up to me. I can go on for a long time with all of this but I don’t want to point every single little detail out cause it would go on forever. Hopefully by now people can see for themselves how we tricked all of you and how they continue to do it now. Just go back to the posts and you’ll see so many of the “safety nets” that we threw out and the hints/words/links to what I’m saying that will point and validate my words. It’s why we also keep changing platforms (boards) and all that.

Here are the sources (How **** was done) for you to follow up on.

A lot of the major players (actors) took turns posting as Q. It’s why you see many “device” ID’s on the chans. If you know Pam and Baruch well, and know how they talk you’ll be able to make out some of their verbal habits in the drops. They often taunted people with them. Examples: we serve at the pleasure of the president (this was us, secretly saying we were Q – fast forward it’s also why tracy kept saying “we are Q to POTUS in a recent vid of hers), some of come to drop crumbs just crumbs, trust the plan (Pam came up with this) etc. I can go on.

Prior to the elections some members had started sending letters to the president complaining about the problems in our government. It was time we got measurable change – is what they wrote. We also called it Quality and Quantitative change! This is where Q came from. We called ourselves Q patriots in every letter and made it clear that we were wanting change and that we were rooting for him and promised to help him gain votes to make this possible. We sent lots and lots of letters hoping he’d acknowledge us.

Regarding the famefagging – look back to see who reached out first to inforwars, tracy and many other truthers for interviews. The truth is out there. They’ve even been caught saying that Q told them directly to do this (BULL**** AGAIN). This is when Tracy came on board too and Corsi.

If you look at when we went from posting on halfchan to the infinitychan board it was baruch, and codemonkey that did that **** because of drama we had with some 4chan mods all thanks to baruch. He always caused issues. It’s why Pam pushed us to cut ties with him because we were starting to fear getting caught. He was getting caught slipping way too many times and we had to cover our tracks.

When corsi came on board he was the major lead and someone Pam always knew would bring him the publicity we needed. Pam looked to corsi for his insight to deepstate research and this is how Pam took advantage of Corsi. Corsi still hasn’t picked up on this. It’s been Pam picking his brain for drops with the help of Farmer too. Tracy was eventually told the truth and she was in and she contributed too. If she says otherwise she’s a ****ing liar! I had respect for her at first and lost it. I hope she comes forward with the truth too because she did have some guilt in this too.

The tripcode – Matlock was Baruch. That ****ing idiot says he knows digital forensics but he cant even come up with a secure trip? He’s the biggest moron of all. We all would secretly make fun of that fool. Anyway, when the trip got cracked we had to come up with something fast. That’s how that “they used special hardware to crack it” came about. Farmer also helped here. You can go back to see he supposedly verifies Q’s IP to validate his new trip along with Baruch and Codemonkey – all fake. We threw that **** in the drops and people bought it all up.

Baruch and Pam silenced people that were questioning the drops, and silenced some of us that left and posted the truths by deleting our posts and banning our IP’s – yes Codemonkey/Baruch do track IPs on the board. If they tell you otherwise it’s a lie! If you search there are archives that show the deleted posts and you clearly see the BS that transpired and who’s at the lead (the BO and others). Dumbass Tripfags!

CBTS discord – Pam planned to make other platforms to collect money. Farmer wanted to start something in the discord to capitalize. Pam said no (because he already promised people he wouldn’t) and drama broke out. Eventually they planned to break up the CBTS discord allowing Farmer to collect in the CBTS discord and Pam made a new server. By this time, this was the 3 new discord server because drama kept coming up when members questioned “the plan.” This is why it also spilled over on the chans! Farmer took a fall for letting in an FBI informant (as planned). But guess what, Don’t question it, you’re a shill if you do, trust the plan! – Yup all BS!

This was a constant and still is. As we broke up the group. Someone would try to control the board to be Q. This is how Baruch took over first on 4chan, then another member, then farmer. Look back and you’ll find constant contradictions from yes we know Q, yes we have contact with Q, to and all that (baruch). Farmer responding as Q to himself as the anon who initials his post with ff (farmerfunk). Search the Qmap website for the “ff”.

More recently – you see the drama with corsi and others where Q is bashing them but then gives props to the bakers, codemonkey, and BO – Please open your eyes people! I’m so very sorry for my part but you are all being lied to.

The pictures – We would find them on the net, modify them with photoshop or other applications, reverse the images over lay things on them, or did things so that they couldnt be reversed search in google: unless that’s what we wanted you to do. We would test it ourselves.

The bigger parts:
There is a website that shows all of TRUMPS tweets. It’s still on the web now (http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/). It used to be able to load tweets right after Trump would post it but a bit faster than it would pop up on Twitter; around 5-15 min faster. It mostly depended on the server but this is how we got lucky and were able to post some of the words off Trumps tweets on the chans before it loaded on twitter.

This really made it all very believable. But really it was all because there was a code that twitter provided to capture the tweet off the server (it’s how media websites would capture and embed them too). Twitter eventually fixed this and it’s why you no longer see the POTUS tweets prior to him posting them on twitter. This coding was all code monkey with the help of a few others.

Pam and his wife gave a lot of direction on the drops. His wife wrote the questions because she knew the connections. Others helped to. Corsi as well by providing Pam answers from his research. You’ll find a lot of things from corsi’s books covered in the crumbs just reworded for the socratic method we used (Pams wife came up with this).

Here’s the MOAB (again an inside joke)!
Some individuals hacked a server ( I wont say who for obvious reasons but if you know the group, then you’ll know who’s tech enough to do this). This was a “4am talking points” server (yup it’s in the crumbs)– it’s no more than a cloud server where Journalist/reporters send their breaking news to the media. It was and has been a gold mine of info. It’s also how we found out about some of the real on-goings with POTUS. We just added more BS to it all. It made what we were dropping on the chans really look like intel. It wasn’t. We were either diligent at what we planned, very lucky or both every time. We called it the “4am talking points” because the server was hacked around 4am.

This is also where it all started. I’m not sure who thought of trying to crack it but it was planned out early on when we knew we needed a source for quality information.

There are far many things that I could point out. I’ve said what I think are the major points. If you all won’t believe me now, then it’s a moot point because no proof I can give will make you change your minds and you’ll remain the sheep CBTS has made you to be.

I’m very sorry to all those I have lied to, affected, or fooled. I really really am! I hope I can redeem myself by exposing the lies now before it goes even further. Ask yourselves this, “why isn’t Hillary in jail already?” A very very big sorry goes out to Deadcat because I know how much time, prayer, hope and belief he has put into this. I’m so very sorry Deadcat! We never got to meet face to face and after all this I don’t ever think I could face you. I’m sorry!

Please know this – I’m no longer with those Assholes because I really do care! I chose to leave and they didn’t boot me out. They may seek revenge or try to make you believe I”m a shill. Whatever I dont care I just want the truth to be out. F them if they do!

Signed

”QBRD_BAKER”


Related:
THE GHOST IN THE MACHINE: Does Q Anon = “TYLER” = A.I.? The Question of “Who is Q?” Leads Some to Conclude Q is Just Too Good to be Truly Human; #TYLER Project Mayhem 2020 (https://throughthelookingglassnews.wordpress.com/2017/12/21/the-ghost-in-the-machine-does-q-anon-tyler-a-i-the-question-of-who-is-q-leads-some-to-conclude-q-is-just-too-good-to-be-truly-human-tyler-project-mayhem-2020/)




PS: For some reasons, DuckDuckGo couldn't find anything to return for "part 46 the baker e-mail revealed"... so, I tried Yandex... and the above was listed second item of first page... a reminder that DuckDuckGo uses Google's search engines...

[Helene West]

I was expecting more from this thread, some definitive proof against q.
That being said q is without question a psyop by it's very clandestine nature,huge resources, inside information,its ever growing influence on the general public,and army of anons.
This has become a powerful well organised movement in it's own right.
My questions are
1) is the psyop just for the repulicans,my worry is that they are doing such a hit job on the democrats they will be uneletable again in my life time and the USA will be a one party state.
2) what is the end game,believe me they have one.
Is it a power grab,is it putting power back in the hands of the people,is it draining the swamp.
Is Trump trying to add his family name the the 13 family's that rule the world.
3)does q work for Trump or Trump for q?.
Having a puppet president dancing on the Strings of the military could be just as bad as Obama being the Manchurian candidate of the deep state.

We all have to think end game not the short term wins

Samildamach

You have emphasized one of the most important points for us currently in #2 - to stop thinking of the short term, such as - The Orange Monster obsession, etc. and start concentrating on the End Game, identifying it and preventing it. What is the End Game?

Those who have smugly contended that corruption has been with us forever, will always so they wash their hands of any political interest/activity in favor of self-actualization because after all the new boss is the same as the old boss, etc. - have been correct for a long time, but no longer.

As the 'good book' states the rain falls on good and evil alike, Technology will be the end game for us all unless one belongs to the ruling class or their well remunerated service workers some call the deep state, i.e. their bought off politicians, intel agents and CEO's of various industries...the rest of us will be subject to complete control.

AI, 5-G, transhumanism, robotics and especially remote control technology will ensure our powerlessness, sickness and death. They have not yet perfected remote control technology in regards to the human mind but we have now read and listened to TI guinea pigs in this regard.

I also wonder if the political kabuki we witness that many surmise is no more than just fighting amongst factions of the ruling class - if the fighting or divide amongst them is over this type of total dehumanizing/control of the human race. Some may not be 100% sociopaths and are warring with the ones that are in this regard.

You can't do much of anything if you have sounds and voices in your head. You become a shell of a person. You want it to stop? Do what you're told. I believe we have limited time ahead of us to stop this.

How do we stop this? Swimming upstream against human inertia is a discussion in itself. We need some push back to give us time. When I voted, not for trump, but against clinton, it was because she represented the Obvious globalist party to me. I have no argument that trump May be just representing another side of globalist ruling (warring) families but I don't know that for sure. It is obvious to me that there is no longer a democratic party, they are the american arm of the globalist agenda or deep state party. Pushing them back so we have time to think, discuss and group is necessary. If they get back in dominating positions we'll hear nothing but race and gender, race and gender - we won't be able to get at any general human issues affecting us all.

Q may be part of the push back. I don't know, I'm obviously intrigued but was never sold and it's one of the reasons I was in favor of another thread to discuss whether it is or isn't. The original Q thread needs to remain intact to discuss the actual 'drops' and its tangents.

[Praxis]

As I said on the "q" thread, when I heard that "q" had targeted Iran for regime change, I went into the main "q" thread and asked if it was true. Several said, "no", or asked for a reference. I supplied a reference, and followed-up the supplied links to what I assume is "the source" or at least a complete, searchable listing of q posts, and posted the exact words q used.

Some members see this as an attack. Yes, it is an attack on the credibility of q. I wasn't attacking members.

If you are a peace activist 7/24/365.25, you damn well know that the phrase "regime change" is a not-so-subtle euphemism for destruction of a government, often the murder of the leader/figurehead, and installation of a new and more pliable figurehead. There were several attempts in the q thread to deflect or gloss over the accepted meaning of that phrase or to pretend it had a completely different meaning. If anyone is sincerely in doubt at the dark meaning of the phrase "regime change", they may want to do an internet search and read a few hundred places where the phrase is used, and what it ACTUALLY means.

Oh well, q was just rallying the people of Iran to oust their current regime, say others. However, as I pointed out, "regime change" in Iran is loudly being called for by netanyahu and zionist israel, as well as the "Deep State." They have for years, but it is again at fever pitch powerfully underscored by trump's allegiance to zionist israel and his calls for regime change in Iran. So, when q echoes netanyahu and the deep state, that is noteworthy. That is a big deal. What is even more telling is that there really are 2 terrorist states operating in the Middle East: israel and saudi arabia, and q kinda sorta forgot to mention them as countries that need a regime change, skipping over them to mention Iran.

This should SCREAM at anyone who was on the fence about whether q is "the good guys", unless you consider israel and saudi arabia as the good guys.

Possibly even more upsetting to some members is that I also see who trump is, and loudly proclaim it - just as I have done with other top-tier miscreants such as the clintons, the bushes, obama, sanders, pelosi, schumer, mccain, warren,... all zionists, all mobsters, all sociopaths, all corporatists, all militarists. trump is different in a way not so much because he is essentially different than they are, but because he clashed with the plan to shoehorn killary into the big chair. It's a faction war. Mobsters vs. mobsters. I don't separate the moderately evil from the most evil. I know that some see trump as anti-globalist, and that that alone says he's anti-NWO, and therefore a good guy, but don't seem to pay attention to what corporations that trump IS assisting, including the military/security industrial complex which is the enforcement wing of the globalists.

I'm sorry that trump isn't the hero that some of you believe he is. I do hope he nails obama and hillary to a cross, but if he does, it will be more of a "St. Valentine's Day massacre" scene, where one group of mobsters eliminates another group of mobsters. I would applaud, even though I know it is not going to "fix" the malevolent, terroristic, imperialist USA, INC.

Discussion of trump within the context of q is germane, as q is prominent pro-trump propaganda.

A "psy-op?" Yes. To manipulate and obfuscate the perception of trump's awful foreign and domestic policy, attempting to overshadow trumps actual policy with visions of him as an anti-NWO hero and/or anti-pedophile hero or the hero that prosecutes all the bad guys in the USA, INC federal government. Remember not to allow your eyes to be drawn to the beautiful magician's assistant's legs or cleavage - watch the magician's hands. Pay attention to what trump is actually doing, not what q wants you to focus on.

The thanks button, which i use VERY sparringly as I see it as basically social media manipulation a la Facebook, is not nearly enough for this post dennis. I am quoting because people really should read it twice.

I am Pro Peace.
I am Pro Human rights.
I am Pro Humanity.
E pluribus Unum.
Liberty, Equality, and Justice FOR ALL

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I ask: what is Q if it isn't what he/she/they says it is?

Q is an intricately planned operation, long in the making, and skilfully if not brilliantly designed from the off (layers within layers within layers), and has proven very effective in unravelling complex threads of truth. It cannot be a 'simple hoax', a LARP, a kid in his basement making stuff up. Not for nearly a whole year. Surely no one thinks that, even if they doubt the authenticity of the drops. We must agree on this much.

It's true that Q is not a visible whistle-blower in the time-worn sense of the word. There's no individual fronting it, no name, no credentials to check - @Bill, I get that too.

So what is it?

Perhaps some think Q is a disinfo tool of maybe foreign intelligence, or even an op within the Trump administration itself, designed to confuse, distract, and spread lies about his opponents and make him look good to MAGA supporters. It's possible. But if the Q drops were lies, I'd have thought by now that that would be clearly demonstrable. For me, that's not the case.

What we're left with then is a still psyop, a "psychological operation", but of a very different stripe. A psyop meant not to deceive and subvert the public, but to encourage and educate it instead. A white-hat psyop, and maybe the first of its kind, ever.

Maybe that's too hard to believe (too good to be true?), but consider the nature of the 'drops'. Namely, the corruption inherent in the political system. Can anyone seriously argue that corruption and rot is not present at the heart of our western so-called democracy? The Bushes, Hillary, McCain, all paragons of virtue? Take 9/11... Or take Obama. Nobel peace prize my a$$. He's as bad as the day is long, all of them are. And I do think a lot of people know that already.

And then there's the fiscal black hole into which billions, even trillions were magically swallowed with no paper trail at all! Where's that all gone? (SSP is my belief, but Q hasn't gone there, yet). Illegal wars, illegal spying, secret societies, social and political subversion, the Vatican (is it really for God?), child-trafficking (Haiti et al). Tips of the iceberg probably. There were signs, clues, indications of all of these things before Q came along, but dots have been joined and the picture has solidified since and because of Q.

Q is providing names, places, and dates... connections, associations, and secret activities, and not always overtly but in the manner of 'crumbs'. And doing it that way makes perfect sense to me. In giving the people dots, which they have to join up themselves, Q is effectively discharging himself from violating any national security oaths, which would just create another Snowden, and probably result in prison. The way they would get around this makes sense. Q makes sense.

Consider the huge media backlash against Q as well. In all their hit-pieces I haven't actually seen a single Q drop referenced, broken down, and fact-checked. They haven't even asked one serious question about it. That's because journalists aren't journalists anymore, at least in the mainstream. And we know this. They have treated Q in precisely the same way they treat any conspiracy theory: they decide it's rubbish for you, saving you the trouble of looking into it yourself.

...With the exception of conspiracy theories that serve subversive purposes, like Flat Earth. I've not seen mainstream news channels giving that the same airtime!

What Q has been sharing and building on these last months is coming to light on our TV screens, right in front of our eyes. Is it not? It looks set to gather pace, and blow up to be something quite massive.

If that does happen, what then?

If Q is legitimised, verified, and proven... what then?

What will the MSM say then?

What will Avalon?

I'm about 90% convinced Q is the real deal. That's based solely on what I personally have found by following up these drops for myself, by digging and unearthing for myself.

And reading between the lines. [not exactly a precise skill I give you that]

So much of it does check out. Sure, many gaps are yet to be filled, many dots yet to line up. I'm mightily puzzled by a great many things. Ketron island and that plane crash... Yup, still no idea! I'm quite positive some things won't be made public at all, because they're either too sensitive, too unpalatable, or just too potentially damaging. For one, consider deep state meddling and warmongering on foreign shores - for decades. If all that were revealed, it could result in severely damaged relations, at worst a declaration of war by these certain nations against the US and her allies. Obviously, there are going to be things that we may never know, and for good reason.

Granted, with Q, you have to make a few leaps of faith in places -- but where in the alt-media world is that not required?

So I do reserve a robust 10% slice of scepticism, just to be on the safe side. If it all blew up tomorrow and Q were positively disproven, I'd hold my hands up and say fair enough, I was duped. At least I wouldn't be alone, and smarter people than me were duped too! [And I'd really like to know how the heck it was achieved, all those...coincidences.]

As far as cults are concerned, I don't see it as a cult (because I can leave at any time!). On a serious note, cults require a doctrine in order to keep its members in check. Q has no doctrine, no dogma. Just pictures and puzzles that point to the shape of things going on behind the curtain. Certainly the MSN cannot be trusted to present an accurate depiction of that. I think that was the underlying purpose of Q in the first place.

One thing even doubters cannot deny: a massive private war is underway in the corridors of power. It's the deep state versus Trump. Some will think that Trump is just another puppet - personally I don't think so. He's much more master than puppet, his history in business bears that out. He's his own man, which makes him especially dangerous (to them).

Let Q be an open case if nothing else. An unknown, an unverified. There are plenty of these on Avalon. It's in good company. We're all mature enough to agree to disagree if that's the case, and no problem there with me.

But ultimately time will tell, time will tell all in the end.

:heart:

[Ratszinger]

Hello gents and ladies. I signed on mostly because of this thread and the other. I enjoy watching the way things are handled here as opposed to elsewhere. I hate the feeling of walking on egg shells just because you ask a question. Anyway, I've had reservations also about Q and quite honestly I do go back and forth at times feeling even good about it but not here lately.

The more I thought it over the more uncomfortable I became. Forgive me for really dumping on a first, wait second post but I was actually writing this as I was validated and have been working on it for a couple of days not sure where I'd post it to at least say my piece. Please know I do lean toward the autistic side and tend to write as some put it, like an 'a--hole! It isn't intentional. I don't know why it comes out smart 'as-y' sometimes when I write I'm really a sweet person and I smile a lot!

To get right to it kind of going back to both primary candidates of 2016, I believe that it is pretty well known on this forum that Hillary had and has ties to the mob through both her actions of the past with her husband and his airport arrangement when Gov. of AR. working in conjunction with the off shore oil rig platforms in international waters owned by the Bushes.
One could make a good argument that Hillary was born into the mob via her daddy who some say was known to have been one of two capos to have taken over the Chicago mob after Capone was tossed in jail for tax evasion. I'm not saying that I know for a fact that Hillary's bio daddy actually did take over the mob with another at that time but I will say based on past history of HRC I find it very plausible to conclude she has ties to the Chicago mob whether we accept this history of her father or not. http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/303458-former-fbi-official-clintons-are-a-crime-family

With that said I believe people want a savior and need one. I fear the Q movement in some ways mostly because it's a with us or against us mentality at this point. I was booted off another forum for asking questions like these just to bring them out to put them on the table for review. Any questions of doubt and they immediately react the same way as the left extremist does and censor, ban or attack or all three. I was stunned! Here I was brought there by the very movement they went on and on about and then I get there and I'm not even allowed to ask or point out some serious concerns?

I didn't feel like any of my questions should illicit such a response! I wasn't expecting it that is for sure! Still I believe if we just stick with plausible conclusions based on on what many consider facts we can conclude also that it is highly likely that Donld J. Trump is also affiliated with organized crime. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-2016-mob-organized-crime-213910

So in short we have two presidential candidates with strong likelihood of mob ties! What does the mob profit on and off of? Everything Obama was selling? Everything Bill and Hillary and the Bushes sold and moved perhaps? See the picture? Is DJT against war? Is he?

Q is a meticulously planned operation, long in the making, I agree with our friend above, however I believe the same people that control 98 % of the planet and it's resources are the same people behind it. Consider that both candidates were likely compromised in some way. Listen you all I know you don't want to entertain the idea, but I ask that you humor me just this once and say to yourself okay, what if? What if when we look at the facts as they seem to present themselves we can plainly see that both candidates regardless of who won the election had dirt on them which could be used against them to leverage them into behaviors they otherwise would not be likely to take part in. With Bill Clinton it is a prime example of someone, a sexual predator and sexual deviant from a bloodline family from way back mind you, with potential being he like Bush and others were, 'Men of the Manor" so to say, so long as he could be controlled. His sexual deviance was his downfall as it is reported he was set up for the rape charge by the coed at Oxford by more than one researcher. The simple fact is Bill Clinton did not graduate from Oxford but was kicked out and and shortly after married Hillary and then in a blink was Gov. of AR! How does this happen?

The research some have done say it's because Bill went to a group there in England, "The Whip" as it's referred to and they offered him a deal, something they had planned all along just as they do this Q scenario now. These groups of super rich men, working with organized crime networks from the USA moved the new couple right into position for Bill to begin paying back those favors he promised them politically, as well as marrying the mobsters daughter Hillary and the next thing you know he is in the White House! Didn't even graduate and yet he is there and Kevin Shipp said Hillary was moved right ahead back when she was a spouse no one knew about really and yet it's reported her clearance was bumped up skipping all manner of normal protocol! It's been said she still has a higher clearance than presidents even now which means higher than Q clearance. True? I don't know but if so it's scary enough.

What we need to consider is that Trump is leveraged somehow just like Bill Clinton was and since he has rape charges pending as I understand it and from a minor child I find it plausible to consider maybe he was filmed and someone has a tape on him. I would have to believe something other than DJT's love for his country brought this billionaire playboy out of his lush lifestyle to have to deal with this for four years let alone eight. It seems much more likely if I keep the shallow image I had of DJT in my mind forefront that he was forced to do this considering that and the fact he has been to Epsteins Isle and hung with other known deviants! Why it is likely we're dealing with two puppets, Hillary and Donald that ran for president as they have a pile of dirt to use against each of them! It didn't matter who won the elite the presidents answer to had a plan in place for either one with slight changes to make things go as they want. This entire thing is to justify the new world order. It is no coincidence that we are so close to the NWO that this Q operation takes place either. Timing is everything!

Surely everyone here knows the last three hold out countries to having new central FED banks are North Korea, Syria and Iran? Oh and some remote provinces in China. Also consider the people behind the FED know the world is awake to the NWO plans and they know if they try to run it through in the open people will object and the FED and the debt and the take over of the world currency plan is also fresh on their minds if the FED does it as Bush put it, to 'reign in the the New World Order' which they all want.

Suppose Q and the movement is just what they needed to get the people behind the motivation to tear down the FED. The people think they are destroying the old system but the evil money masters do everything in reverse so they are really building not tearing down. Just like when they organize an attack to place sanctions and limit food and water and vital medicines to countries until they are begging for help and these elite bastards go in then to what, install a new FED bank to loan those poor people money to help them rebuild what they instigated to fall apart in the first place! They are just needing the public to get behind it and what better way than to make the incompetent masses think they are doing this than to make them believe they are tearing down the old system when in fact they building the new take over system. They know no one will be behind the FED in every country but everyone will hop on board to bring the FED down to the ground and stomp it dead and they'll all jump right in to do that! What they don't get is that the same sick people that owned the FED are now the ones that will instigate the new currency and the new policies it brings which will soon tell them all this is how its going to be now and you have no choice, no borders, no different currency the entire world on this one is theirs because they control the money of every king, queen and president so those that print and determine interest rates, balloon note rates, and so on dictate how the countries will carry on biz as usual and so on and suddenly the trap door shuts, everyone says oh ****! And then they cry because they were so asleep at the wheel and so blind for a savior none of them could stand to even look in the mirror at themselves or go out in public anymore to face those they brought down with them! Some of which were autists also and equally as smart, as aware and capable as any supporting Q but just one that didn't support what he perceived to be suspicious and perhaps sinister.

[Helene West]

@Star Mariner.
It's definitely not some millenial larper nerd. No way. They'd do it a few weeks before tiring of the hoax. (then bragging about it). This is almost a year now that it's been going on.

It's either real or Intel agencies. They specialize in disinfo. But if the latter WHY?? I would think they have enough control over most of media to manipulate everyone hither and thither. Why this extra work at manipulation? What do they want from not only trump supporters but many on the fence alternative media folk/constituents.

If Intel/disinfo, what is it they're trying to do??

[AutumnW]

... trump IS being attacked, by bad guys. And, if trump is being attacked by known ruling elite psychopaths (he is), then he must be a good guy, that's the reasoning I see put forth by trump supporters. I get where the confusion is coming from. But being attacked by hillary or bernie or mccain doesn't mean someone is a good guy - it means a different, very powerful and very malevolent group of gangsters is in a turf war, and trump is sitting in the seat hillary so coveted. I'm outside the false dichotomy. The dnc corporation is just as evil as the rnc corporation. The rnc corporation is holding the talking stick - the power - now, so I direct my ire at the rnc and its spokesmodel. ... I look at the whole problem, not half of it.

Well said (RE: they are equally corrupt). The phrase 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend' acknowledges that the friend in this case is still your enemy. I interpret your post to be a warning i.e. lets not forget that the friendly enemy is still your enemy.

Having said that, I don't believe Trump is so naive as to believe the RNC is truly supporting him. They too are part of the swamp. For now, he needs the RNC to fight this battle. I do believe the majority of Trump supports know this.

I read your post to also say, Trump is evil too. I agree in that I also believe his motives are in service to him personally. He is motivated to be the top dog and will indeed step on others. However, I believe he wants to do this within a government and political structure based on the unencumbered, sovereign individual. This is the basis of the Constitution. For me, this is the battle. On the other hand, the RNC and DNC are motivated to diminish if not destroy that concept.

My take is Trump and his ilk support libertarianism for the masses. And, if they gain or maintain power, individuals are going to get 'freedom from govt.', and they are going to get it good and hard.

There will still be corporate and military socialism as your tax dollars pay for wars to support the petrodollar hegemony. Oh, and there will be plenty of welfare for Space force to militarize space.

But social security? Help for the poor and dispossessed? Under a Pence regime, the contingency plan is likely to let the churches take care of all of that. No worries about a nanny state. You will have a Christian 'manna' state. Convert or die hungry.

Medicare? If you're lucky...maybe some pale version of what is currently available.

As Dennis is taking pains to illuminate, repeatedly...the enemy of your enemy is NOT your friend. Q is remarkably silent about Israel and Saudi Arabia. Hmmmm....

[AutumnW]

@Star Mariner.
It's definitely not some millenial larper nerd. No way. They'd do it a few weeks before tiring of the hoax. (then bragging about it). This is almost a year now that it's been going on.

It's either real or Intel agencies. They specialize in disinfo. But if the latter WHY?? I would think they have enough control over most of media to manipulate everyone hither and thither. Why this extra work at manipulation? What do they want from not only trump supporters but many on the fence alternative media folk/constituents.

If Intel/disinfo, what is it they're trying to do??

Q, if it is intel, is likely military intelligence--one of the branches of the 'deep state' that so many are unaware of. They are at odds with the civilian letter agencies that gained traction under the democrats.

[Helene West]

@Star Mariner.
It's definitely not some millenial larper nerd. No way. They'd do it a few weeks before tiring of the hoax. (then bragging about it). This is almost a year now that it's been going on.

It's either real or Intel agencies. They specialize in disinfo. But if the latter WHY?? I would think they have enough control over most of media to manipulate everyone hither and thither. Why this extra work at manipulation? What do they want from not only trump supporters but many on the fence alternative media folk/constituents.

If Intel/disinfo, what is it they're trying to do??

Q, if it is intel, is likely military intelligence--one of the branches of the 'deep state' that so many are unaware of. They are at odds with the civilian letter agencies that gained traction under the democrats.

If it is the CIa or 'letter' agencies as you put it - why are they doing this? Why are they putting this effort into this for almost a year? What would be the point of false hope? Wouldn't the globalists be more empowered if trump supporters or alt crowd was demoralized?

As far as military intelligence they are the supposed white hats, the author of Q if I have the pro Q-cover story straight which I may not.
I had in mind in my post above what I consider the globalist based Intel, such as CIA.
I'm no expert in this for sure.

[Helene West]

@Ratzinger - "...They know no one will be behind the FED in every country but everyone will hop on board to bring the FED down to the ground and stomp it dead and they'll all jump right in to do that! What they don't get is that the same sick people that owned the FED are now the ones that will instigate the new currency and the new policies it brings which will soon tell them all this is how its going to be now and you have no choice, no borders, no different currency..."

I'm not sure people are as naive as you are stating. If the proposal is to end the Fed but supplanted by purely digital currency many of us know that signifies even less control than we already have. I think people want to know what would the central banking model be replaced with before willy nilly stomping it dead to the ground as you put it...

[AutumnW]

Helene, the deep state has many factions, some of which are simpatico, others not and a few openly hostile and struggling with one another for dominance.

The letter agencies, like CIA, are currently more aligned with the Dems or 'liberals.' And this extends to what you would call liberal media and entertainment. Through they are not supposed to concern themselves with domestic operations, they most certainly do and have done so for a very long time.

Geographically they are more coastal and their affinities are more academic, Wall Street.

Military Intel is centered more in the heartland and the South and has closer affinities to the religious right, big oil and therefore Israel and Saudi Arabia and the Middle East. Their is some cultural fusion through Christian Zionism and lots of back and forth common interests and traffic between Saudi Arabia and Texas.

I suspect Q is military intelligence and is working to undermine the CIA as he or she or they appear to be pro-military.

[Helene West]

Helene, the deep state has many factions, some of which are simpatico, others not and a few openly hostile and struggling with one another for dominance.

The letter agencies, like CIA, are currently more aligned with the Dems or 'liberals.' And this extends to what you would call liberal media and entertainment. Through they are not supposed to concern themselves with domestic operations, they most certainly do and have done so for a very long time.

Geographically they are more coastal and their affinities are more academic, Wall Street.

Military Intel is centered more in the heartland and the South and has closer affinities to the religious right, big oil and therefore Israel and Saudi Arabia and the Middle East. Their is some cultural fusion through Christian Zionism and lots of back and forth common interests and traffic between Saudi Arabia and Texas.

I suspect Q is military intelligence and is working to undermine the CIA as he or she or they appear to be pro-military.

I'm glad you feel you have the flow chart of intel agencies figured out!
I'll stick to my old fashioned former activist label of Cointelpro, the umbrella project of disinfo working against the citizenry.
It doesn't click for me that this year long work, a year of Q, towards those in the Alt community and trump supporters is just a mind/power game between intel agencies though that is interesting.
I feel someone is trying to do something to the citizenry here and that is what concerns me.

[ThePythonicCow]

My guess is that Q, and Trump, have some deep, dark connections, just as did the Bushes and Clintons. However, I'd guess that Trump is backed by different "mob families", perhaps more by the Kennedy's, than by the Rockefellers who seem to have been key supporters of the Bushes and Clintons.

Joseph P. Farrell, in this recent post of his, TIDBIT: MORE ON THE Q-ANON McSHAME THEORY (https://gizadeathstar.com/2018/09/tidbit-more-on-the-q-anon-mcshame-theory/), links to a good read from the anti-Q side: To Q Or Not To Q (augenguy.blogspot.com) (https://augenguy.blogspot.com/2018/09/to-q-or-not-to-q.html).

I disagree with Farrell and augenguy on the matter of Q, but I'll grant that I have little or no substantial and incontrovertible evidence that would bolster my case, in their eyes.

Having lived in a town nation that has been seriously destroyed, and hosted much destruction elsewhere, all under the rule of one Mob family, I find myself cheering on the take down of that Mob family, even if it is by another Mob family that may well turn out to be just as nefarious in the long run.

[Ratszinger]

@Ratzinger - "...They know no one will be behind the FED in every country but everyone will hop on board to bring the FED down to the ground and stomp it dead and they'll all jump right in to do that! What they don't get is that the same sick people that owned the FED are now the ones that will instigate the new currency and the new policies it brings which will soon tell them all this is how its going to be now and you have no choice, no borders, no different currency..."

I'm not sure people are as naive as you are stating. If the proposal is to end the Fed but supplanted by purely digital currency many of us know that signifies even less control than we already have. I think people want to know what would the central banking model be replaced with before willy nilly stomping it dead to the ground as you put it...

Its a consideration for sure. I don't think a person is naive or stupid but people are dumb herd animals when in groups and group think takes over. We see it and the media triggers them so en mass I think the public is that naive. It's sad they are so easily led astray but we could cite examples of this over other threads not just here. I don't know that anything will be digital in the currency other than record keeping. Seems to me the mob rather likes a loose currency they can hide in the form of light weight paper. We may see a change over to hemp paper or something such as this but as to the backing of the new currency? Perhaps it will be all that wealth they confiscate from the pedos and deviants involved in high crime and have actual physical land holdings, gold, silver and other currencies and bank accounts in such high numbers it will make things manageable again?
To my knowledge the Rothschilds and Rockefellers are simply upper management only.
The Payseurs, the Farneses, the Mediccis', the Aldobrandini, AKA Brandini, the Dangoor, the Sassoons, the Habsburgs, the Breakspears, I believe it's pronounced "GODOY' but I'll have to verify that last one but these are all far more powerful families than the Rothschilds or Rockefellers.

[AutumnW]

Helene, the deep state has many factions, some of which are simpatico, others not and a few openly hostile and struggling with one another for dominance.

The letter agencies, like CIA, are currently more aligned with the Dems or 'liberals.' And this extends to what you would call liberal media and entertainment. Through they are not supposed to concern themselves with domestic operations, they most certainly do and have done so for a very long time.

Geographically they are more coastal and their affinities are more academic, Wall Street.

Military Intel is centered more in the heartland and the South and has closer affinities to the religious right, big oil and therefore Israel and Saudi Arabia and the Middle East. Their is some cultural fusion through Christian Zionism and lots of back and forth common interests and traffic between Saudi Arabia and Texas.

I suspect Q is military intelligence and is working to undermine the CIA as he or she or they appear to be pro-military.

I'm glad you feel you have the flow chart of intel agencies figured out!
I'll stick to my old fashioned former activist label of Cointelpro, the umbrella project of disinfo working against the citizenry.
It doesn't click for me that this year long work, a year of Q, towards those in the Alt community and trump supporters is just a mind/power game between intel agencies though that is interesting.
I feel someone is trying to do something to the citizenry here and that is what concerns me.

Helene, this isn't just fun and games power struggle, IMHO. It is a major power struggle and shouldn't be simplified. There are NO good guys here. No white hats.

[AutumnW]

My guess is that Q, and Trump, have some deep, dark connections, just as did the Bushes and Clintons. However, I'd guess that Trump is backed by different "mob families", perhaps more by the Kennedy's, than by the Rockefellers who seem to have been key supporters of the Bushes and Clintons.

Joseph P. Farrell, in this recent post of his, TIDBIT: MORE ON THE Q-ANON McSHAME THEORY (https://gizadeathstar.com/2018/09/tidbit-more-on-the-q-anon-mcshame-theory/), links to a good read from the anti-Q side: To Q Or Not To Q (augenguy.blogspot.com) (https://augenguy.blogspot.com/2018/09/to-q-or-not-to-q.html).

I disagree with Farrell and augenguy on the matter of Q, but I'll grant that I have little or no substantial and incontrovertible evidence that would bolster my case, in their eyes.

Having lived in a town nation that has been seriously destroyed, and hosted much destruction elsewhere, all under the rule of one Mob family, I find myself cheering on the take down of that Mob family, even if it is by another Mob family that may well turn out to be just as nefarious in the long run.

Trump is backed by the hard right fundamentalist military, IMHO. He is the chosen to fail candidate used as a Trojan horse by the Christian fundamentalists. Notice how quiet they are lately? He got the wealthy their tax cuts so it's time to go now!

That anonymous letter in the New York Times is a military op. Now that Trump is of no use to them, they want him out of there and their candidate of choice IN. I noted that the apparently unelected 'steady state' author mentioned that Trump had done a few positive things, like increase military spending and cut taxes for the rich??

Prepare for Pence. And those who think Trump is the worst thing that could happen are in for a big surprise. They are ALL SO bad, so immoral, amoral.

[Helene West]

Helene, the deep state has many factions, some of which are simpatico, others not and a few openly hostile and struggling with one another for dominance.

The letter agencies, like CIA, are currently more aligned with the Dems or 'liberals.' And this extends to what you would call liberal media and entertainment. Through they are not supposed to concern themselves with domestic operations, they most certainly do and have done so for a very long time.

Geographically they are more coastal and their affinities are more academic, Wall Street.

Military Intel is centered more in the heartland and the South and has closer affinities to the religious right, big oil and therefore Israel and Saudi Arabia and the Middle East. Their is some cultural fusion through Christian Zionism and lots of back and forth common interests and traffic between Saudi Arabia and Texas.

I suspect Q is military intelligence and is working to undermine the CIA as he or she or they appear to be pro-military.

I'm glad you feel you have the flow chart of intel agencies figured out!
I'll stick to my old fashioned former activist label of Cointelpro, the umbrella project of disinfo working against the citizenry.
It doesn't click for me that this year long work, a year of Q, towards those in the Alt community and trump supporters is just a mind/power game between intel agencies though that is interesting.
I feel someone is trying to do something to the citizenry here and that is what concerns me.

Helene, this isn't just fun and games power struggle, IMHO. It is a major power struggle and shouldn't be simplified. There are NO good guys here. No white hats.

You're still making it sound as if you feel the Energy/the effort/the work/the Project is mainly being exchanged between competing Intel agencies. I feel the energy is being directed at certain groups of citizens.

[Ratszinger]

My guess is that Q, and Trump, have some deep, dark connections, just as did the Bushes and Clintons. However, I'd guess that Trump is backed by different "mob families", perhaps more by the Kennedy's, than by the Rockefellers who seem to have been key supporters of the Bushes and Clintons.

Joseph P. Farrell, in this recent post of his, TIDBIT: MORE ON THE Q-ANON McSHAME THEORY (https://gizadeathstar.com/2018/09/tidbit-more-on-the-q-anon-mcshame-theory/), links to a good read from the anti-Q side: To Q Or Not To Q (augenguy.blogspot.com) (https://augenguy.blogspot.com/2018/09/to-q-or-not-to-q.html).

I disagree with Farrell and augenguy on the matter of Q, but I'll grant that I have little or no substantial and incontrovertible evidence that would bolster my case, in their eyes.

Having lived in a town nation that has been seriously destroyed, and hosted much destruction elsewhere, all under the rule of one Mob family, I find myself cheering on the take down of that Mob family, even if it is by another Mob family that may well turn out to be just as nefarious in the long run.

Trump is backed by the hard right fundamentalist military, IMHO. He is the chosen to fail candidate used as a Trojan horse by the Christian fundamentalists. Notice how quiet they are lately?

That anonymous letter in the New York Times is a military op. They want him out of there and their candidate of choice IN. Prepare for Pence. And those who think Trump is the worst thing that could happen are in for a big surprise.

Agreed! Preacher Pence will be an even bigger threat to Roe vs Wade to the left. From the frying pan to the fire!

I do agree to a large extent with Dennis> Thanks Dennis I read all your posts. Breath of fresh air as far as I'm concerned. I do believe it's going to be out with the old boss hello to the new boss in a nutshell descriptor.

[AutumnW]

Q is likely trying to stoke affinities between groups to create a big tent that may just soften a larger cohort of Americans up for an eventual overt military dictatorship. I can't glean anymore from the bits that I know, but I see typical pro military patriotic overkill in the last 'drop.'

[Helene West]

Wow... an evangelical America?? In 2018? No bloody way. We are far too secular. If trump stepped down or was removed pence would be such a temporary blip on the screen. Interesting, but Too funny

[Ratszinger]

Q is likely trying to stoke affinities between groups to create a big tent that may just soften a larger cohort of Americans up for an eventual overt military dictatorship. I can't glean anymore from the bits that I know, but I see typical pro military patriotic overkill in the last 'drop.'

Yes and like another thread as of late it seems to always be, "next week" just wait til next week after the next secret meeting, and so it goes. If this is another wild goose chase it will be devastating to some. It just seems to be getting that same familiar feeling of 'tomorrow', just wait til tomorrow ! How many times have we heard 'Disclosure is "IMMINENT'?

[AutumnW]

Helene, I pay attention to large groups who go almost radio silent in the msm if it persists. And this is persistent. Pence is a virtual non-entity. Quiet as heck. Hmmmm..... not proof of anything but useful back pocket read on things for me.

The last time I had this sense was just before 911, when I had the feeling that the Middle East was eerily quiet, nothing in the news. That changed radically. But, it is my own sense of things so really only important to me. Not evidence.

[AutumnW]

Wow... an evangelical America?? In 2018? No bloody way. We are far too secular. If trump stepped down or was removed pence would be such a temporary blip on the screen. Interesting, but Too funny

The U.S is one of the most radically religious countries on Earth. Adding to its potency as a shaper of culture is the fact that it is all entwined with patriotism. It's a one two punch. And yet there is Miley Cyrus ... Strange hybrid. Pat Robertson and Miley Cyrus.

[Helene West]

Between the midterm elections and whether or not Trump declassifies Fisa docs is going to help at least some of us make up our minds about a few things. At least I hope so...

[Dennis Leahy]

Does anyone remember what happened on this date, 17 years ago?

Is there anyone on Project Avalon that thinks that the story about 17 Saudi Arabian + 2 other hijackers, the mastermind in the Afghani cave, the buildings that impossibly fell down at freefall acceleration speed, the airplanes that all disobeyed laws of physics and vanished, NORAD conveniently shut down for 2 hours, multiple military wargames echoing the "real" attack, etc., etc., etc. - was real?

No one?

Good.

Then you probably know that the actual people who planned and executed 9/11 still control the US government. You also know that 3 successive US presidents - representing the only two political parties in the US - have done everything possible to cover-up the 9/11 perpetrator's tracks.

The actual people who planned and executed 9/11 still control the US government. Think about that. Joint Chiefs of Staff (heads of the enforcement wing of the Deep State), the CIA, FBI, DHS (all Deep State.) The very same people that created the plan to take control of the Middle East oil reserves and help zionist Israel kill their enemies. The very same people that are attacking Syria right now are Deep State.

Below, is a "q drop" that I just copied from the q believer's thread. Just exactly what about 9/11 is it that they will never forget? Will they never forget that it was the largest and most elaborate false flag in history? Or, will they will never "forget" the USA, INC. official, Deep State pack of lies?

--------------------
Q !!mG7VJxZNCI 09/10/18 (Mon) 18:30:42 8b50ae (4) No.2966091

File (hide): 3f649767c337a80⋯.jpg (11.52 KB, 275x183, 275:183, 9-11.jpg) (h) (u)
https://media.8ch.net/file_store/thumb/3f649767c337a80c849d4211613c24afd0245e8cc4844fdf60a8c503fa01de07.jpg

>>2965953 (https://8ch.net/qresearch/res/2965529.html#2965953)
WE WILL NEVER FORGET!
WE WILL NEVER FORGIVE!
Q
--------------------

[mountain_jim]

While I am quite active in the



q believer's thread


I agree that this Q post irritated me quite a bit.

That said, your ongoing sarcasm for those of us who consider 50,000 sealed warrants to be meaningful and worth keeping up with however the info is provided (even if it is one mafia-wing against another)

... is worth noting. (again.)

There is still some chance that ongoing disclosures on the evil done could lead to power shifts that would eventually lead to your
Reset Button Movement

It has to start somewhere somehow after all.

[Dennis Leahy]

While I am quite active in the



q believer's thread
I agree that this Q post irritated me quite a bit.

That said, your ongoing sarcasm for those of us who consider 50,000 sealed warrants to be meaningful and worth keeping up with however the info is provided (even if it is one mafia-wing against another)

... is worth noting. (again.)So, you believe q, but don't want to say you're a q believer? I don't understand. Do we need euphemisms and politically correct word substitutions? If there were 2 opposing threads on a single topic on Avalon, say some people discussing the Dr. Michael Newton material, and one group were people who believed the material and another group in another thread who do not believe the material, wouldn't those 2 groups be Newton believers (I'd raise my hand as a believer), and Newton non-believers? I like facts, and have few beliefs, but I do have some beliefs and in those instances, it is accurate to call me a believer.

I assumed that the q thread was "researchers", and (naively, stupidly) jumped into that thread and presented something to research - q had called for regime change in Iran, in lock-step with the Deep State and zionist Israel - which should have set off alarm in researchers, but it didn't. I got personally attacked instead, and no one in the group researched what I had presented, and a couple of people really offered some bewildering Orwellian doublespeak for what the phrase "regime change" means. I would be disingenuous to now call the group "q researchers."

I am glad to know that there are 50,000 sealed indictments. If there were just, say, 1000, I'd be worried that they were coming after peace activists, but there aren't 50,000 peace activists in the USA, INC., so I should be OK. I'm sure there must be 50,000 pedophiles. Easily 50,000 crimes by zionists (many of whom have double citizenship, Israel and US) committed against the US. Probably 50,000 people that participated at some level in 9/11, including cover-up. I highly doubt that 50,000 people were in on the 'Russiagate' bs and in spying on Trump - I'd guess maybe 50, but there are some pretty big names in the 50 - including obomber and killary and podesta - so I cheer-on those indictments being unsealed. My guess is that me visiting or participating in the q believers thread - or not - isn't going to have any bearing over whether those indictments get unsealed.

[samildamach]

While I am quite active in the



q believer's thread
I agree that this Q post irritated me quite a bit.

That said, your ongoing sarcasm for those of us who consider 50,000 sealed warrants to be meaningful and worth keeping up with however the info is provided (even if it is one mafia-wing against another)

... is worth noting. (again.)So, you believe q, but don't want to say you're a q believer? I don't understand. Do we need euphemisms and politically correct word substitutions? If there were 2 opposing threads on a single topic on Avalon, say some people discussing the Dr. Michael Newton material, and one group were people who believed the material and another group in another thread who do not believe the material, wouldn't those 2 groups be Newton believers (I'd raise my hand as a believer), and Newton non-believers? I like facts, and have few beliefs, but I do have some beliefs and in those instances, it is accurate to call me a believer.

I assumed that the q thread was "researchers", and (naively, stupidly) jumped into that thread and presented something to research - q had called for regime change in Iran, in lock-step with the Deep State and zionist Israel - which should have set off alarm in researchers, but it didn't. I got personally attacked instead, and no one in the group researched what I had presented, and a couple of people really offered some bewildering Orwellian doublespeak for what the phrase "regime change" means. I would be disingenuous to now call the group "q researchers."

I am glad to know that there are 50,000 sealed indictments. If there were just, say, 1000, I'd be worried that they were coming after peace activists, but there aren't 50,000 peace activists in the USA, INC., so I should be OK. I'm sure there must be 50,000 pedophiles. Easily 50,000 crimes by zionists (many of whom have double citizenship, Israel and US) committed against the US. Probably 50,000 people that participated at some level in 9/11, including cover-up. I highly doubt that 50,000 people were in on the 'Russiagate' bs and in spying on Trump - I'd guess maybe 50, but there are some pretty big names in the 50 - including obomber and killary and podesta - so I cheer-on those indictments being unsealed. My guess is that me visiting or participating in the q believers thread - or not - isn't going to have any bearing over whether those indictments get unsealed.

It's not called the q believers thread,thats a flamitary statement to cause irritation and label people. such tactics have been used before there called conspiracy theorists these days

[mountain_jim]

While I am quite active in the



q believer's thread
I agree that this Q post irritated me quite a bit.

That said, your ongoing sarcasm for those of us who consider 50,000 sealed warrants to be meaningful and worth keeping up with however the info is provided (even if it is one mafia-wing against another)

... is worth noting. (again.)So, you believe q, but don't want to say you're a q believer? I don't understand. Do we need euphemisms and politically correct word substitutions? If there were 2 opposing threads on a single topic on Avalon, say some people discussing the Dr. Michael Newton material, and one group were people who believed the material and another group in another thread who do not believe the material, wouldn't those 2 groups be Newton believers (I'd raise my hand as a believer), and Newton non-believers? I like facts, and have few beliefs, but I do have some beliefs and in those instances, it is accurate to call me a believer.

I assumed that the q thread was "researchers", and (naively, stupidly) jumped into that thread and presented something to research - q had called for regime change in Iran, in lock-step with the Deep State and zionist Israel - which should have set off alarm in researchers, but it didn't. I got personally attacked instead, and no one in the group researched what I had presented, and a couple of people really offered some bewildering Orwellian doublespeak for what the phrase "regime change" means. I would be disingenuous to now call the group "q researchers."

I am glad to know that there are 50,000 sealed indictments. If there were just, say, 1000, I'd be worried that they were coming after peace activists, but there aren't 50,000 peace activists in the USA, INC., so I should be OK. I'm sure there must be 50,000 pedophiles. Easily 50,000 crimes by zionists (many of whom have double citizenship, Israel and US) committed against the US. Probably 50,000 people that participated at some level in 9/11, including cover-up. I highly doubt that 50,000 people were in on the 'Russiagate' bs and in spying on Trump - I'd guess maybe 50, but there are some pretty big names in the 50 - including obomber and killary and podesta - so I cheer-on those indictments being unsealed. My guess is that me visiting or participating in the q believers thread - or not - isn't going to have any bearing over whether those indictments get unsealed.

I believe that much worthwhile information has been spread to previously clueless folks due to the Q phenomena, who were not a part of the conspiracy-research mindset that I have participated in since the alt.conspiracy.jfk usenet group, pre world-wide-web.

I also believed proofs had occurred that made a coordination between Q and Trump likely. I could be proven wrong there as more information comes to light. Does that make me still a believer?

I also believe that the tone of some of your posts could use some softening.

And I don't deny you on were on the receiving end of that as well.

In fact I was also, earlier in one of the pro-Trump threads for not being all in on the man or his policies and appointments.

[Dennis Leahy]

...

I also believe that the tone of some of your posts could use some softening.

...
Point taken.

I hate being conned. I have been conned and swindled in the distant past, and though I was livid at the conman, I was also embarrassed and angry at myself that I fell for it. I have family members and friends that have been conned, and I empathetically feel angry and embarrassed for them as well. It is probably technically codependent of me to also include caring about a bunch of people that I do not know, living somewhere in cyberspace, in most cases I do not even know their name. But, I do care.

When I studied Buddhism, and came to the part where the difference between Mahayana and Hinayana was explained (Mahayana strives toward enlightenment, then steps back from the bliss, focused on ending the suffering in other beings; Hinayana strives toward enlightenment, and stays focused there or upon achieving "buddahood"/enlightenment, stays in that state), I knew I was Mahayana. For better or for worse, I care about all of humanity, and care about all the other trillion life forms on this remarkable planet. I see the suffering, and am compelled to try to help.

Also, as a believer in reincarnation, I cannot believe that I would have agreed to come to this planet and just painfully witness massive species extinctions and habitat destruction and massive genocide of humans. The only thing that makes sense to me is that I would have agreed to come here and to try to help stop the insanity, stop the greedy humans from mass murder and mass ecocide.

If my efforts are ineffective, I won't quit, but I will try to become more effective. I'll try to watch my language, my phrasing, more carefully.

[Mari]

...

I also believe that the tone of some of your posts could use some softening.

...
Point taken.

I hate being conned. I have been conned and swindled in the distant past, and though I was livid at the conman, I was also embarrassed and angry at myself that I fell for it. I have family members and friends that have been conned, and I empathetically feel angry and embarrassed for them as well. It is probably technically codependent of me to also include caring about a bunch of people that I do not know, living somewhere in cyberspace, in most cases I do not even know their name. But, I do care.

When I studied Buddhism, and came to the part where the difference between Mahayana and Hinayana was explained (Mahayana strives toward enlightenment, then steps back from the bliss, focused on ending the suffering in other beings; Hinayana strives toward enlightenment, and stays focused there or upon achieving "buddahood"/enlightenment, stays in that state), I knew I was Mahayana. For better or for worse, I care about all of humanity, and care about all the other trillion life forms on this remarkable planet. I see the suffering, and am compelled to try to help.

Also, as a believer in reincarnation, I cannot believe that I would have agreed to come to this planet and just painfully witness massive species extinctions and habitat destruction and massive genocide of humans. The only thing that makes sense to me is that I would have agreed to come here and to try to help stop the insanity, stop the greedy humans from mass murder and mass ecocide.

If my efforts are ineffective, I won't quit, but I will try to become more effective. I'll try to watch my language, my phrasing, more carefully.


Just be who you are, Dennis. You are here for a reason & I for one, am glad you are :highfive:

[Bill Ryan]

Folks, this is a request for data. Nothing else.

I'd not wanted to clutter up the main Q thread with this. But he/she/they posted this today: (I'm just copying part of Paul's post here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters&p=1247968&viewfull=1#post1247968))

(My added emphasis is in red)

From https://8ch.net/patriotsfight/res/62.html#230
Q !!mG7VJxZNCI 09/12/18 (Wed) 15:45:33 No.230
https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/1...e-ban-sam-hyde (https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/17847186/reddit-qanon-milliondollarextreme-ban-sam-hyde)
https://www.cnet.com/news/reddit-ban...racy-theories/ (https://www.cnet.com/news/reddit-bans-qanon-subreddit-that-featured-pro-trump-conspiracy-theories/)
CONTENT VIOLATIONS?
STAY STRONG.
STAY TOGETHER.
CENSORSHIP WILL FAIL.
THOSE THEY ATTACK THE MOST ARE THE BIGGEST THREAT.
EXPECT TWITTER/FB FORCE NEXT.
AJ [TEMPLATE] WAS DESIGNED TO ATTACK/CENSOR 'QANON' [primary obj].
Q
My question. Considering that 'Q' appears to be possibly attacking Alex Jones here (or, an alternative interpretation: that the AJ censorship precedent will be used to attack/censor QAnon next) — what is being discussed about this on the net, on other sites/ videos/ blog posts elsewhere?

That's my question — nothing else. I don't really know where best to look, and I don't have the time to dig into this. But having some sense of what the ripple effect might be right now of what seems like an important enigmatic statement, could be interesting and maybe useful. I'd love to know what the audience is thinking about Q at the moment — re the 'AJ thing', and also of course in general.

THX. :thumbsup:

[norman]

Sadly, I think KiwiElf would be the best one to deliver that data, but he may have lost his appetite for a while.




As some of you will know, I'm chasing the Chinese rabbit at the mo'. I am doubtful that any LARPer outside of Trump's inner circle could be responsible for the Q drops. I don't have a very accurate understanding of all the drops since the beginning but I've seen far too many that are evidently sourced from somewhere very much in-the-know. I therefore dismiss the argument made in the "true identity video".


However, my charged fascination with a notion that silicon valley and China are a singularity leads me to the idea that an AI system, based in either of those locations, COULD be dropping the Q crumbs.


I have another reason to believe China has either penetrated highly secure comms and data management or been invited in. I suspect the latter. I don't want to write it on an open forum, or even say it on line at all. Bill may remember I once made a feeble and paranoid attempt to tell him about a penetration I was aware of. That penetration shocked the person who did it by revealing that "the Chinese are all over the place".


Anyway, where am I going with this ? I continually try to remind people about the Jade Helm exercise in 2015 and I continually fail to get much interest. My own snout keeps on returning me to that Jade2 thing. I now wonder if it's a Chinese project, not a US government project. After all, Jade is a Chinese legendary rabbit on the moon.


Perhaps the rabbit hole we should be going down is on the moon, not here.


https://vgy.me/9k2rUq.jpg

[Valerie Villars]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Helm_15_conspiracy_theories

So, if Wikipedia is saying it's a paranoid conspiracy theory......................then what is it really? I have to go to bed and haven't read, but will in the morning.

[ThePythonicCow]

My question. Considering that 'Q' appears to be possibly attacking Alex Jones here [I](or, an alternative interpretation: that the AJ censorship precedent will be used to attack/censor QAnon next) — [B]what is being discussed about this on the net, on other sites/ videos/ blog posts elsewhere?
Q doesn't like Alex Jones, but I doubt that Q favors censorship by the social media sites, especially not by the big ones. Nor would one expect Q to be a fan of censorship, given that Q and those researching his posts are one of the likely targets for censorship, right alongside one of those he opposes, Alex Jones.

But it's all sort of a big food fight in the school cafeteria, and one can expect each parent's view to be different, depending on whether their child just threw, or just got hit, by the most recently thrown bit of food.

These are deliberately tense and divisive times, seemingly designed to hook as many of us as they can hook, on either side of whatever principles we are willing to stand for.

But, speaking metaphorically, these storms that we can track are superficial, compared to the deep ocean currents and immense electro-magnetic fields surrounding our solar system and galaxy.

Just don't try telling Joe from the Carolinas (one of our Avalon members who is in the path of hurricane Florence) that these storms are superficial. He might have a different perspective.

[mgray]

Folks, this is a request for data. Nothing else.

I'd not wanted to clutter up the main Q thread with this. But he/she/they posted this today: (I'm just copying part of Paul's post here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters&p=1247968&viewfull=1#post1247968))

(My added emphasis is in red)

From https://8ch.net/patriotsfight/res/62.html#230
Q !!mG7VJxZNCI 09/12/18 (Wed) 15:45:33 No.230
https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/1...e-ban-sam-hyde (https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/17847186/reddit-qanon-milliondollarextreme-ban-sam-hyde)
https://www.cnet.com/news/reddit-ban...racy-theories/ (https://www.cnet.com/news/reddit-bans-qanon-subreddit-that-featured-pro-trump-conspiracy-theories/)
CONTENT VIOLATIONS?
STAY STRONG.
STAY TOGETHER.
CENSORSHIP WILL FAIL.
THOSE THEY ATTACK THE MOST ARE THE BIGGEST THREAT.
EXPECT TWITTER/FB FORCE NEXT.
AJ [TEMPLATE] WAS DESIGNED TO ATTACK/CENSOR 'QANON' [primary obj].
Q
My question. Considering that 'Q' appears to be possibly attacking Alex Jones here (or, an alternative interpretation: that the AJ censorship precedent will be used to attack/censor QAnon next) — what is being discussed about this on the net, on other sites/ videos/ blog posts elsewhere?

That's my question — nothing else. I don't really know where best to look, and I don't have the time to dig into this. But having some sense of what the ripple effect might be right now of what seems like an important enigmatic statement, could be interesting and maybe useful. I'd love to know what the audience is thinking about Q at the moment — re the 'AJ thing', and also of course in general.

THX. :thumbsup:

Bill, in this post Q is reacting to Reddit taking down the Q inspired subreddit the Great Awakening.

Just as the other social media sites took down Alex. He is saying the plan against Q was pre-tested on AJ, used as a template.

[ThePythonicCow]

Bill, in this post Q is reacting to Reddit taking down the Q inspired subreddit the Great Awakening.

Just as the other social media sites took down Alex. He is saying the plan against Q was pre-tested on AJ, used as a template.
Yup.

I'd guess that wasn't the only motive for attacking Alex Jones. Most ops have multiple motives. But that sure sounds to me like one of their motives ... practicing and setting up a divisive environment better suited for attacking/censoring Q and any others who are making too much trouble for them.

The ills perpetrated by the Rockefeller and related families, syndicates, operations, and such have formed a seriously metastasized cancer in our civilization. We've got our work cut out for us.

My take on Alex Jones (which is not the take of many others here) is that he is more along the lines of controlled opposition, offering limited hangouts. He made a great "first target", as most people know of him, and many people find him obnoxious. So attacking him makes for great theater, which most people will be at least a little aware of, and many people will approve of, thinking "good riddance to that blow hard", while many others will be outraged that one of their favorite sources of commentary on news and current events is being shut down.

The chaos of great controversies provides great cover and energy for further operations.

The first step in creating a good explosive is to separate and polarize two chemicals that, when suddenly recombined, are highly reactive. The first step in a major reconstruction or in urban renewal is to blow things up real good, using good explosives to separate existing structures into smaller, isolated, units that can be more easily discarded or reassembled in a different form. Similarly, building a wood framed house requires one to first chop and saw trees into boards, planks, and beams.

We are watching such a deconstruction process. Let us do what we can to see that what gets rebuilt is good, and that what is worth preserving is not first chopped or blown up.

[RunningDeer]

Just don't try telling Joe from the Carolinas (one of our Avalon members who is in the path of hurricane Florence) that these storms are superficial. He might have a different perspective.
In case Joe doesn’t have a chance to catch it, Dennis left a comment (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104265-12-Nuclear-Plants-in-Path-of-Hurricane-Florence&p=1248078&viewfull=1#post1248078) for him in the Hurricane Florence thread.


Hey Joe from the Carolinas, and your family and loved ones: be safe. May there be minimal damage.

:offtopic:

[RunningDeer]

My question. Considering that 'Q' appears to be possibly attacking Alex Jones here (or, an alternative interpretation: that the AJ censorship precedent will be used to attack/censor QAnon next) — [B]what is being discussed about this on the net, on other sites/ videos/ blog posts elsewhere?
A couple of comments from the 16 minute video:


After 16 years, Dustin no longer supports Alex Jones and now supports Q. He gives reasons why, included is footage of Alex Jones.
Owen Shroyer gives his take to Alex Jones on how [i]American media has co-opted Q and is using it to attack you [Alex Jones].

Dustin: …I don't even know where to start. I didn't ever expect QAnon would repost something that I did. I damn sure never expected Alex Jones would attack me and his show but he did. And I'm gonna break it down for you here. Let’s jump right in.

[cuts to video footage of Alex]

Alex: … I don't follow QAnon…


https://i.imgur.com/F5VZkI8.gif

@ 8:05 (https://youtu.be/PtZ7t_wEm3Y?t=8m05s) - Owen Shroyer to Alex Jones - …as far as the Q thing is concerned I believe that whatever was going on with Q in the beginning legit or not co-opted everything there was an article it was after a Trump rally it was early August. A big Trump rally and there were a ton of Q signs at the rally first time I'd ever seen that. Well the next day NBC writes an article pumping up Q.

Of course says it’s fake but but covering it now so now it's in the mainstream. So they covered it doesn't matter nobody's gonna read the story anyway there's no Q everyone goes and looks at Q. And ever since that day everything changed. Trump no longer allows signs into his rallies and Q and on now has decided to turn its attack on the media. So I think after that rally it was actually American media that co-opted Q. So whatever Q was you know propaganda or whoever, whatever, I now believe that the American media has co-opted Q and is using it to attack you.


Alex Jones hypocritically Attacks Dustin Nemos with Sophistry & Lies, plays victim -Over the Target?
PtZ7t_wEm3Y


Dustin Nemos2
Published on Sep 10, 2018

[norman]

There may be many things wrong with that, but one of them is that Trump has NOT banned signs at his rallies.




Even David Wilcock says that if there are not big moves and arrests by the end of this year, Q is busted.


We're all going to have to wait and see, folks.

[RunningDeer]

We're all going to have to wait and see, folks.
You made a funny, norman. http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/dielaughing.gif

All those back up provisions I squirreled away 7 years ago, the emergency medical supplies, the batteries of all sizes that have outlived their shelf life, etc... they're great reminders for me to stop waiting.

http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/faint.gif

Oh, and the Davey Wilcocks, the Benny Fulfords, and the blue space gangs. That list keeps on growing, and growing and...

https://i.imgur.com/EPPl4UZ.jpg

[Praxis]

...

I also believe that the tone of some of your posts could use some softening.

...
Point taken.

I hate being conned. I have been conned and swindled in the distant past, and though I was livid at the conman, I was also embarrassed and angry at myself that I fell for it. I have family members and friends that have been conned, and I empathetically feel angry and embarrassed for them as well. It is probably technically codependent of me to also include caring about a bunch of people that I do not know, living somewhere in cyberspace, in most cases I do not even know their name. But, I do care.

When I studied Buddhism, and came to the part where the difference between Mahayana and Hinayana was explained (Mahayana strives toward enlightenment, then steps back from the bliss, focused on ending the suffering in other beings; Hinayana strives toward enlightenment, and stays focused there or upon achieving "buddahood"/enlightenment, stays in that state), I knew I was Mahayana. For better or for worse, I care about all of humanity, and care about all the other trillion life forms on this remarkable planet. I see the suffering, and am compelled to try to help.

Also, as a believer in reincarnation, I cannot believe that I would have agreed to come to this planet and just painfully witness massive species extinctions and habitat destruction and massive genocide of humans. The only thing that makes sense to me is that I would have agreed to come here and to try to help stop the insanity, stop the greedy humans from mass murder and mass ecocide.

If my efforts are ineffective, I won't quit, but I will try to become more effective. I'll try to watch my language, my phrasing, more carefully.

Dennis, Do not soften your speech. Speak what you belief and stand firm.

When someone is a zionist pushing for zionist propaganda call it out and firmly.
When someone is warmonger, NIKKI HALEY!, call them out.

I dont interact here because there are not enough people like you. I do not mind people who disagree, but I do mind people who will not debate policy.
And when the Commander in Chief continues the same war policies(with North Korea the exception which I bet was because Trump wanted to be first at something to satisfy that ego) then you call the out on it. Has trump stopped weapons to Saudi? Have we stopped the triple taps strikes in Yemen which rely on our air forces?

Did we move the ****ing embassy to Jerusalem?


Dennis, do not listen to mountain Jim. You are the most courteous person while offering differing opinion. What he is asking you to do is become less outspoken, dont do it. Of course the tone of some of your post are harsh, then maybe people should not be warmongers. As long as the American Corporate Imperium is enforcing Pax Americana, harsh tone is called for.

[Bill Ryan]

Bill, in this post Q is reacting to Reddit taking down the Q inspired subreddit the Great Awakening.

Just as the other social media sites took down Alex. He is saying the plan against Q was pre-tested on AJ, used as a template.

Thanks, Mike, and I think you're right. The problem was (like the Iran regime change thing) Q's post was ambiguous — or, at least, not 100% crystal clear. That underlines my very strong personal opinion that the way he/she/they posts is NOT helpful — to anyone who genuinely wants clarity and good information.

What we don't know for sure is how deliberate or conscious the lack of helpfulness is. Either they're intending to be ambiguous and therefore likely to cause disagreement in some circles, or they're not bright enough to see that what they write IS ambiguous and open to misinterpretation.

I'd prefer to read posts by Richard Dolan, Joseph Farrell, or yourself! :) At least there I know for sure what is being said, and why. If Q's ambiguity is deliberate, then it's a actually form of disinformation. It has the same pragmatic effect, that of engendering confusion and conflict.

Who wins?

[mgray]

Bill, in this post Q is reacting to Reddit taking down the Q inspired subreddit the Great Awakening.

Just as the other social media sites took down Alex. He is saying the plan against Q was pre-tested on AJ, used as a template.

Thanks, Mike, and I think you're right. The problem was (like the Iran regime change thing) Q's post was ambiguous — or, at least, not 100% crystal clear. That underlines my very strong personal opinion that the way he/she/they posts is NOT helpful — to anyone who genuinely wants clarity and good information.

What we don't know for sure is how deliberate or conscious the lack of helpfulness is. Either they're intending to be ambiguous and therefore likely to cause disagreement in some circles, or they're not bright enough to see that what they write IS ambiguous and open to misinterpretation.

I'd prefer to read posts by Richard Dolan, Joseph Farrell, or yourself! :) At least there I know for sure what is being said, and why. If Q's ambiguity is deliberate, then it's a actually form of disinformation. It has the same pragmatic effect, that of engendering confusion and conflict.

Who wins?

I do understand your opinion. I look at it as why give you a fish (by telling you exactly what I mean) rather than teach you to fish so you can decipher future events when Q is not on the boat.

[Magnus]

I do understand your opinion. I look at it as why give you a fish (by telling you exactly what I mean) rather than teach you to fish so you can decipher future events when Q is not on the boat.

Most of us, master basic fishing by now, don't we?

[WildOrchid]

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/divide-and-conquer.jpg

I have been following Alex Jones for a long time, and Q since it started. In this age of Mass Deception I try follow many sources and pick and chose what RINGS TRUE FOR ME and discard the rest. It is never a case of following just one source. THE POWERS THAT BE want us DIVIDED in order to succeed with their sociopath utopias. They try to pack us into "collective boxes" and divide us intellectually, by belief, religion, race, sex etc. We must recognize this and grant each other the Freedom of Speech which includes the right to criticize, disagree or stay neutral, the Freedom of Religion/Belief, the Freedom of Expression, Self Determinism and Power of Choice.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/05/67/bb/0567bbf86c1af828aeab03ea3e414920--divided-we-fall-united-we-stand.jpg

[Ascension]

I have been following Alex Jones for a long time, and Q since it started. In this age of Mass Deception I try follow many sources and pick and chose what RINGS TRUE FOR ME and discard the rest. It is never a case of following just one source. THE POWERS THAT BE want us DIVIDED in order to succeed with their sociopath utopias. They try to pack us into "collective boxes" and divide us intellectually, by belief, religion, race, sex etc. We must recognize this and grant each other the Freedom of Speech which includes the right to criticize, disagree or stay neutral, the Freedom of Religion/Belief, the Freedom of Expression, Self Determinism and Power of Choice.



Yes, it struck me as funny when the Q topic had to be divided into TWO separate threads because we are seemingly unable to be civil in one. Even here at Avalon!

[Jayke]

Bill, in this post Q is reacting to Reddit taking down the Q inspired subreddit the Great Awakening.

Just as the other social media sites took down Alex. He is saying the plan against Q was pre-tested on AJ, used as a template.

Thanks, Mike, and I think you're right. The problem was (like the Iran regime change thing) Q's post was ambiguous — or, at least, not 100% crystal clear. That underlines my very strong personal opinion that the way he/she/they posts is NOT helpful — to anyone who genuinely wants clarity and good information.

What we don't know for sure is how deliberate or conscious the lack of helpfulness is. Either they're intending to be ambiguous and therefore likely to cause disagreement in some circles, or they're not bright enough to see that what they write IS ambiguous and open to misinterpretation.

I'd prefer to read posts by Richard Dolan, Joseph Farrell, or yourself! :) At least there I know for sure what is being said, and why. If Q's ambiguity is deliberate, then it's a actually form of disinformation. It has the same pragmatic effect, that of engendering confusion and conflict.

Who wins?

It depends entirely on whose eyes you view it through. The notion of the 4 humours—or 4 temperaments— was popular in Ancient Greece and Renaissance Europe. These 4 humours give rise to not only Confusion and Conflict, but also Apathy and Insight.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Lavater1792.jpg

https://i.redd.it/mgwlm73xg5fz.jpg

The cryptic nature of Q’s messages appeal most to the phlegmatic personality type. The other 3 types won’t have a clue what the cryptic nature of the messages are about and will generally respond as follows:

Sanguine = Apathy
Choleric = Conflict
Melancholic = Confusion
Phlegmatic = Insight

How many threads have we got discussing Q now? Is it 4 by any chance?

Once you know how all 4 personality types will respond, you can step back from the drama, centre yourself and be the unicorn in the middle (the horn represents the pineal glands ability to pierce through the illusory veil of conceptual thought, to see reality as it really is)—it also represents the 5th element of spirit—the reconciler that brings all 4 elements together in unison in an alchemical wedding.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Seg4iOsLXkU/ToICPHMbVFI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/Ro8ZNy884hU/s1600/Possible+Great+Wheel.JPG

Whoever Q is seems to understand these notions very well imo, and seems to have a much deeper understanding of organisational psychology, systems theory, character types etc...just a deep understanding of human psychology in general.

And as someone who also has a deep understanding of these topics, I see the Q messages as being written by someone who understands the nuances of linguistic alchemy, and the precise pragmatic effect it’ll have on a wide variety of people, in different ways, throughout different settings.

One of the best NLP/Hypnosis trainers around right now is John Overdurf, his course linguistic alchemy (https://stores.modularmarket.com/johnoverdurf/linguistic-alchemy-p133.php) teaches the use of directionalised ambiguity for transformative effect.


Sampling of Major Topics covered:

The nature of change based on new neuro-science and how you can use it.

New innovative protocols for eliciting the present and outcome state

The mysterious power of "not" and the wisdom of "not knowing"

Conversational and non-verbal maneuvers create change at the level of
attention

Directionalized Ambiguity- advanced language patterning to create rapid transformation


Are you interested in learning...
What are newest findings in neuro-science that give us precise tips for how to create trance phenomena and practical, resilient and flexible change?
How can you elicit and utilize naturally occurring sub- modalities outside the client's conscious awareness to produce effective change,

How can you use the elements of the problem to create the solution?
What are the crucial non-verbal skills -not usually taught or perhaps recognized - to effectively deliver transformative language patterns?

How can you powerfully use confusion, uncertainty, not knowing for significant change and deeper trance phenomena?

How can you split synesthesias associated with most problems and, at the same time, create trance?

Now, with Q, I recognise the touch of a master. He knows the first step of alchemy i.e. how to make delineations within a system to form clear constituent parts. How those parts reconcile is down to the character growth and development of society. Directionalised ambiguity is a technique that’s like playing with fire, you have to be comfortable with generating a high degree of chaos, but if those constituent parts are able to reconcile harmoniously, it generates a tremendous shift, tremendous energy and a tremendous transformation.

Maybe Q is a black magician where I only see light. Maybe I’m just projecting my understanding and worldview onto something that could turn out to be a big hoax. I still don’t know. But I’m still following the breadcrumbs and still getting lots of great research (insight) into the whole phenomenon, so, I’ll carry on riding the chaos wave until it leads in an unproductive direction.

[ThePythonicCow]

the batteries of all sizes that have outlived their shelf life, etc...
You too ?

:)

[Valerie Villars]

Bill, in this post Q is reacting to Reddit taking down the Q inspired subreddit the Great Awakening.

Just as the other social media sites took down Alex. He is saying the plan against Q was pre-tested on AJ, used as a template.

Thanks, Mike, and I think you're right. The problem was (like the Iran regime change thing) Q's post was ambiguous — or, at least, not 100% crystal clear. That underlines my very strong personal opinion that the way he/she/they posts is NOT helpful — to anyone who genuinely wants clarity and good information.

What we don't know for sure is how deliberate or conscious the lack of helpfulness is. Either they're intending to be ambiguous and therefore likely to cause disagreement in some circles, or they're not bright enough to see that what they write IS ambiguous and open to misinterpretation.

I'd prefer to read posts by Richard Dolan, Joseph Farrell, or yourself! :) At least there I know for sure what is being said, and why. If Q's ambiguity is deliberate, then it's a actually form of disinformation. It has the same pragmatic effect, that of engendering confusion and conflict.

Who wins?

It depends entirely on whose eyes you view it through. The notion of the 4 humours—or 4 temperaments— was popular in Ancient Greece and Renaissance Europe. These 4 humours give rise to not only Confusion and Conflict, but also Apathy and Insight.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Lavater1792.jpg

https://i.redd.it/mgwlm73xg5fz.jpg

The cryptic nature of his messages appeal most to the phlegmatic personality type. The other 3 types won’t have a clue what the cryptic nature of the messages are about and will generally respond as follows:

Sanguine = Apathy
Choleric = Conflict
Melancholic = Confusion
Phlegmatic = Insight

How many threads have we got discussing Q now? Is it 4 by any chance?

Once you know how all 4 personality types will respond, you can step back from the drama, centre yourself and be the unicorn in the middle (the horn represents the pineal glands ability to pierce through the illusory veil of conceptual thought, to see reality as it really is)—it also represents the 5th element of spirit—the reconciler that brings all 4 elements together in unison in an alchemical wedding.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Seg4iOsLXkU/ToICPHMbVFI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/Ro8ZNy884hU/s1600/Possible+Great+Wheel.JPG

Whoever Q is seems to understand these notions very well imo, and seems to have a much deeper understanding of organisational psychology, systems theory, character types etc...just a deep understanding of human psychology in general.

And as someone who also has a deep understanding of these topics, I see the Q messages as being written by someone who understands the nuances of linguistic alchemy, and the precise pragmatic effect it’ll have on a wide variety of people, in different ways, throughout different settings.

One of the best NLP/Hypnosis trainers around right now is John Overdurf, his course linguistic alchemy (https://stores.modularmarket.com/johnoverdurf/linguistic-alchemy-p133.php) teaches the use of directionalised ambiguity for transformative effect.


Sampling of Major Topics covered:

The nature of change based on new neuro-science and how you can use it.

New innovative protocols for eliciting the present and outcome state

The mysterious power of "not" and the wisdom of "not knowing"

Conversational and non-verbal maneuvers create change at the level of
attention

Directionalized Ambiguity- advanced language patterning to create rapid transformation


Are you interested in learning...
What are newest findings in neuro-science that give us precise tips for how to create trance phenomena and practical, resilient and flexible change?
How can you elicit and utilize naturally occurring sub- modalities outside the client's conscious awareness to produce effective change,

How can you use the elements of the problem to create the solution?
What are the crucial non-verbal skills -not usually taught or perhaps recognized - to effectively deliver transformative language patterns?

How can you powerfully use confusion, uncertainty, not knowing for significant change and deeper trance phenomena?

How can you split synesthesias associated with most problems and, at the same time, create trance?

Now, with Q, I recognise the touch of a master. He knows the first step of alchemy i.e. how to make dilineations within a system to form clear constituent parts. How those parts reconcile is down to the character growth and development of society. Directionalised ambiguity is a technique that’s like playing with fire, you have to be comfortable with generating a high degree of chaos, but if those constituent parts are able to reconcile harmoniously, it generates a tremendous shift, tremendous energy and a tremendous transformation.

Maybe Q is a black magician where I only see light. Maybe I’m just projecting my understanding and worldview onto something that could turn out to be a big hoax. I still don’t know. But I’m still following the breadcrumbs and still getting lots of great research (insight) into the whole phenomenon, so, I’ll carry on riding the chaos wave until it leads in an unproductive direction.

Wow Jayke. Great post. Thank you. There's real truth there.

[ThePythonicCow]

...Either they're intending to be ambiguous and therefore likely to cause disagreement in some circles, or they're not bright enough to see that what they write IS ambiguous and open to misinterpretation.

I'd prefer to read posts by Richard Dolan, Joseph Farrell, or yourself! :)
Q is certainly no Dolan, Farrell or mgray :)

I am confident that Q is well aware his posts are incomplete, ambiguous, and sometimes self-contradictory or misleading.

However, despite my tendency to see more deliberate efforts to cause disagreement in some most circles behind every tree, my current preferred working theory is that Q's motive is not so much to cause disagreement as it is to provoke more of us looking into these matters ourselves, so that certain portions of the Rockefeller-CIA-Bush-Clinton-Obama led corruption will be more exposed, hence can be trimmed back.

As Dennis Leahy describes so well in some of his posts of the last day (for example, here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104252-USA-INC.-s-Trump-Gives-Go-Ahead-for-False-Flag-Gas-Attack-in-Syria&p=1248210&viewfull=1#post1248210)), it is almost certain that major portions of the military-financial deep state are under no particular threat, and are likely key backers of Trump.

But some portions are under thread, and are having increasing difficulty maintaining control of the narrative, such as of the "Russian collusion" narrative against Trump.

A major strategic imperative of any such effort, whatever side it is on or against, is maintaining control of the public narrative. The real truths are well hidden, behind seven layers of obfuscation. But how substantial portions of the public, or of the elite minions, understand what is happening very much effects the control and direction of the public, and elite minions, respectively.

Q is, from what I can tell, a key element in shifting the narrative, for some of us.

[ThePythonicCow]

Yes, it struck me as funny when the Q topic had to be divided into TWO separate threads because we are seemingly unable to be civil in one. Even here at Avalon!
It might better be viewed as two threads, one to discuss the Q phenomenon itself ("Is Q real, or is it Memorex (http://ihlogistics.com/is-it-real-or-is-it-memorex/)"), and the other to discuss the content of Q's posts and the topics and research that leads to.

Back when bicycling was a hobby of mine, some of us would discuss who had the better derailleurs, and some of us would discuss the latest hill and dale that we had visited on our bikes.

Some, listening to recorded music, hear the hiss and signal quality of the playback, and some hear the music.

I was always a derailleur and hiss guy myself; though times have changed and now I spend more time engrossed in and learning for myself the strange rhythms being played, and less time worrying about the static on the Q channel (and oh is there a lot of static.)

I have to worry about the static some though, as it threatens to drown out the signal entirely at times, and I happen to be in a better position than most to help keep that signal on the air.

[mgray]

...Either they're intending to be ambiguous and therefore likely to cause disagreement in some circles, or they're not bright enough to see that what they write IS ambiguous and open to misinterpretation.

I'd prefer to read posts by Richard Dolan, Joseph Farrell, or yourself! :)
Q is certainly no Dolan, Farrell or mgray :)

I am confident that Q is well aware his posts are incomplete, ambiguous, and sometimes self-contradictory or misleading.

However, despite my tendency to see more deliberate efforts to cause disagreement in some most circles behind every tree, my current preferred working theory is that Q's motive is not so much to cause disagreement as it is to provoke more of us looking into these matters ourselves, so that certain portions of the Rockefeller-CIA-Bush-Clinton-Obama led corruption will be more exposed, hence can be trimmed back.

As Dennis Leahy describes so well in some of his posts of the last day (for example, here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104252-USA-INC.-s-Trump-Gives-Go-Ahead-for-False-Flag-Gas-Attack-in-Syria&p=1248210&viewfull=1#post1248210)), it is almost certain that major portions of the military-financial deep state are under no particular threat, and are likely key backers of Trump.

But some portions are under thread, and are having increasing difficulty maintaining control of the narrative, such as of the "Russian collusion" narrative against Trump.

A major strategic imperative of any such effort, whatever side it is on or against, is maintaining control of the public narrative. The real truths are well hidden, behind seven layers of obfuscation. But how substantial portions of the public, or of the elite minions, understand what is happening very much effects the control and direction of the public, and elite minions, respectively.

Q is, from what I can tell, a key element in shifting the narrative, for some of us.

The other dynamic for being cryptic is skirting national security violations or other charges the alphabet agencies could throw at him/her/them for violating espionage act.

[Bill Ryan]

It’s Q and A time with Q. He just answered this question. Was the Pentagon hit by a plane? His answer was Yes.


If that's not a joke (from yourself), please post a screenshot when qmap.pub (http://qmap.pub) comes back online. Thx!

Okay, you weren't joking.

http://projectavalon.net/Q_Pentagon_hit_by_plane.gif

I'd suggest this is pretty important. The Pentagon was NOT hit by any plane.

It seriously tells me all I need to know.

[Dennis Leahy]

Whatever you want to call the group of people that engineered and executed and covered-up 9/11 ("deep state", or whatever), none were ever tried, convicted, and hung (or imprisoned. ) ALL of them slithered back into their desk chairs on the payroll of the USA, INC. They are still in power. It is still EXTREMELY important to them that 9/11 get whitewashed and memory-holed. We may not know who "q" is, but we know who "q's" bosses are.

[Satori]

It’s Q and A time with Q. He just answered this question. Was the Pentagon hit by a plane? His answer was Yes.


If that's not a joke (from yourself), please post a screenshot when qmap.pub (http://qmap.pub) comes back online. Thx!

Okay, you weren't joking.

http://projectavalon.net/Q_Pentagon_hit_by_plane.gif

I'd suggest this is pretty important. The Pentagon was NOT hit by any plane.

It seriously tells me all I need to know.

If this statement attribute to "Q" is true, that's all I need to know. My record on this forum re "Q" stands and speaks for itself. I've always been open minded, but very skeptical.

I'm done. No mincing words. "Q" is mind kontrol and controlled opposition, among other nefarious things, by black hats, so-called.

Add: This may seem like a random observation but it's not. It's connected. "Q" is connected to Trump. Trump is connected to Giuliani. (I was very disheartened when Trump brought Ghouliani on board.). Giuliani is connected to 9/11. Now "Q" says a plane hit the Penta[gram].WTH?

[ThePythonicCow]

It seriously tells me all I need to know.
It tells you that some of what Q says is part of the false, public, story ... yes.

I agree that Q is not a researcher by such standards, yes.

Q is useful in other ways, from my current perspective, as, in essence, a counter-psy-op. Some quite useful insights, evidence and research have come to light, as a result of Q, and even more so, of some of those looking into what Q says (autists, researchers, anons, and cows.)

It's a food fight however, resembling a food fight between roving bands of monkeys shot up on methamphetamine in the "world's largest garbage dump", outside of Las Vegas, Nevada.

Some very valuable nuggets are coming to light, amidst all the ruckus.

Not everyone's cup of tea, however.

Perhaps more importantly, the confidence that the Bush-Clinton-Etc crime syndicates have in their ability to shape the public narrative is significantly compromised. Some past lies will remain lies forever, in the "public" narrative, but some future lies may fail to gain such a foothold ... too many doubters.

Fool me once (JFK) .. shame on you.

Fool me twice (911) ... shame on me.

Fool me thrice (...) ... never again.

[ThePythonicCow]

If this statement attribute to "Q" is true, that's all I need to know.
Q said that, yes, here (https://8ch.net/qresearch/res/3093640.html#3093898), in response to the question put here (https://8ch.net/qresearch/res/3092945.html#3093795): Was the Pentagon hit by plane on 911

[Bill Ryan]

If this statement attribute to "Q" is true, that's all I need to know.

Yes, that was his reply. See post 2220 here:


https://qmap.pub

After my screenshot, the title of the post was changed to: "Planes were real?"

[Bill Ryan]

It seriously tells me all I need to know.
It tells you that some of what Q says is part of the false, public, story ... yes.



So this means that he posts disinformation (i.e. part truth, part falsehood), without indicating which is which.
'Q' is also anonymous, and can't be interviewed so that greater clarity can be gained.
We also do not know who he or she is, or who they are.

I'm truly not trying to say anything unkind here. But the above factors show that this can not be considered a reliable source of information for any serious researcher.

[ThePythonicCow]

I agree that Q is not a researcher by such standards, yes.


But the above factors show that this can not be considered a reliable source of information for any serious researcher.
Agreed, as I posted above, just prior to your post :).

In and of itself, Q is not a reliable source, except for some detail fairly specific to the moment and location of which he provides direct evidence.

In the context of research, analysis and evidence found by others, the work of many, which Q has played a key role in energizing, is very important, in my current view.

(If all researchers, or those portrayed as researchers by others, were disqualified because they were or are really wrong on some key issue, then there would be few qualified researchers left, and those would be working in rather narrow and safe areas.)

[Helene West]

Trump told a reporter today that he 'doesn't have an attorney general'. That's a very strong statement.
Meanwhile Q has said to trust Sessions.
Urgghhhh

[ThePythonicCow]

Trump told a reporter today that he 'doesn't have an attorney general'.
As reported by USA Today here (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/09/19/donald-trump-jeff-sessions-attorney-general/1355477002/) (yes - WASHIGNTON is as misspelled in the original post):

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

President Donald Trump: 'I don't have an attorney general. It's very sad'

Bart Jansen, USA TODAY Published 9:26 a.m. ET Sept. 19, 2018

WASHIGNTON – President Donald Trump reignited his criticism of Attorney General Jeff Sessions, saying he doesn't have a top law enforcement officer and blasting Sessions' performance on border security, in an interview with Hill.TV.

Trump has long criticized Sessions for his March 2017 decision to recuse himself from the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election. That recusal eventually led to the appointment of special counsel Robert Mueller, who continues to investigate what Trump has called a “witch hunt.”

But Trump broadened his criticism in an exclusive interview Tuesday with Hill.TV to include his performance on border security and in responding to questions from Congress.

“I don’t have an attorney general. It’s very sad,” Trump said in the Oval Office. “I’m not happy at the border, I’m not happy with numerous things, not just this.”

Trump repeated the criticism Wednesday as he departed for North Carolina, to inspect hurricane damage.

“I’m disappointed in the attorney general for many reasons," Trump said.

When reporters asked whether he would fire Sessions, Trump said: “We are looking at lots of different things.”

The Justice Department declined comment. Sessions did not take questions later Wednesday at a law enforcement conference in Waukegan, Ill. But in prepared remarks that Sessions was set to deliver to officers there, the attorney general had nothing but favorable comments for his boss, suggesting that the Trump administration had served to boost police officer morale.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Franny]

There are apps that allow the user to change any text that is on a screen and make it look original.

I found out about one several years ago and went to the website and tried it out, don't recall it now. I had seen someone demonstrating it as a warning to others. The context was different, it was a person demonstrating that a sales page with proof of income could be changed to make it look like they were making large sales and earnings, when in fact they weren't.

This is the same type of software I expect.

[ThePythonicCow]

There are apps that allow the user to change any text that is on a screen and make it look original.
...
This is the same type of software I expect.
... and just what words, lines, or images do you expect were changed in this story of many facets?

[HaveBlue]

It does not matter. Field McConnel of abeldanger.org says Pentagon hit by a droned A4 McDonnel Douglas Skyhawk. So Q gets a bob each way once again! Missile or plane is moot. Technically they are pretty much the same thing with a LARP question that can produce a variety of vague answers that are still factually correct.

Better to have asked "Did a Boeing 757 passenger aircraft hit the Pentagon"?. If Q is worth a cup of cold tea, they will answer No, which even still may be a coded question with a coded answer and have nothing to do with planes and pentagons.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Better to have asked "Did a Boeing 757 passenger aircraft hit the Pentagon"?

Yes, this. If Q had confirmed "the Pentagon was hit by Flight 77," then I would share these doubts. I would suddenly be very sceptical of Q.

Remember, there were eye-witness reports of a small white plane hitting the Pentagon. Not a Boeing 757. But still a plane. Who knows what it was. A military drone, outfitted as a missile-delivery system? Q's simple remark that this was a plane is still valid for me.

Same for the moon landings. I have always maintained that they did go. That's not to say they didn't use black-world technology to get there, or the missions involved certain classified objectives, or that they faked a portion of the photographic record.

I would dearly like Q to answer some follow-up questions. These should be questions carefully worded, nothing ambiguous.

[Ascension]

What is the point of using a vague response? For those who believe in Q and are aware of the truth of 9-11, the answer is coded, but for those who believe in Q and are unaware of the depth of the 9-11 deception, it's misleading. It was a perfect opportunity to be concise and to wake up another chunk of people to reality, which did not happen. It was also an opportunity to bring those on the fence about Q into the fold. Huge miscalculation with no apparent gain. In fact, might have possibly caused a loss of followers.

[norman]

The Q mission would sacrifice itself if it got too specific on certain topics. That's a pragmatism I expect.

Insisting that Q 'comes out' is less significant, in this case, than trusting that Q gets a job done. The Dolans, Farrells and Liszts will just have to wait, to get what they like to have on their well worn test benches. If Q was laying flat on his back on one of those test benches, Q would be as good as dead. If Q blew up the Republican political machine, Q and Trump would be as good as dead.

Be careful what you ask for, and trust that some people know how to get a job done, instead of just shooting idealist nicks in the cement of our prison wall. What have you got to lose ?

[Ratszinger]

What is the point of using a vague response? For those who believe in Q and are aware of the truth of 9-11, the answer is coded, but for those who believe in Q and are unaware of the depth of the 9-11 deception, it's misleading. It was a perfect opportunity to be concise and to wake up another chunk of people to reality, which did not happen. It was also an opportunity to bring those on the fence about Q into the fold. Huge miscalculation with no apparent gain. In fact, might have possibly caused a loss of followers.

Did it ever occur that maybe the theory of something other than a plane hitting the twin towers is BS? I remember that day well. I saw two planes fly into the buildings with a whole classroom of students watching the same thing I saw! I suggest Q would have lost more followers to buy into the conspiracy surrounding the towers. Perhaps Q knows something you don't in that the planes did hit the towers but they are not what brought it down! Perhaps the question wasn't worded correctly! Maybe it should have been "Q, were the planes that hit the twin towers responsible for the towers falling?"

[mountain_jim]

This was not about planes and the Towers, it's about a plane and the Pentagon. In my view, no real supporting video evidence of the claimed plane flying into that building has yet surfaced (because that did not happen? And all video camera evidence confiscated).

[TargeT]

This was not about planes and the Towers, it's about a plane and the Pentagon. In my view, no real supporting video evidence of the claimed plane flying into that building has yet surfaced (because that did not happen? And all video camera evidence confiscated).

meh, pretty "good" video here (not that it in ANYWAY supports a 747 strike):
FV2xXtIXo1g

Sure looks like a cruise missile to me, though I guess it could be a sky hawk... painted cruise missile white?


reference:
Ypc4ieJO0pg

[Ratszinger]

This was not about planes and the Towers, it's about a plane and the Pentagon. In my view, no real supporting video evidence of the claimed plane flying into that building has yet surfaced (because that did not happen? And all video camera evidence confiscated).

I didn't see where Q was commented about this above with the pentagon. They asked about the towers now you've switched it to this topic to the pentagon? I don't see the post over there now by Q has it been removed? EDIT: YES post 2220 by Q was edited to remove the question. Just "YES" remains.

[Bill Ryan]

This was not about planes and the Towers, it's about a plane and the Pentagon. In my view, no real supporting video evidence of the claimed plane flying into that building has yet surfaced (because that did not happen? And all video camera evidence confiscated).

I didn't see where Q was commented about this above with the pentagon. They asked about the towers now you've switched it to this topic to the pentagon? I don't see the post over there now by Q has it been removed? EDIT: YES post 2220 by Q was edited to remove the question. Just "YES" remains.

Here's the screenshot from qmap.pub (http://qmqp.pub). (Some of the other Q compilations don't quote the post or question that the reply addresses.) It's all still there, including the original question, but the title of the post has been changed to

A Plane Did Crash into the Pentagon Building on 9-11

http://projectavalon.net/Q_Pentagon_hit_by_plane_2.gif

[Bill Ryan]

The "Plane Did Crash into the Pentagon Building on 9-11" thing is really very curious. (Let me just leave it understated like that! :) )

For some interesting reading and video watching, search [Qanon Pentagon plane] and then limit the Time (with the 'Tools' tab on Google) to the last 24 hours. (Or, to the last week, as time rolls on a little if you're reading this post later.)

What's interesting to me from a human viewpoint is how many people who have so far believed every word that 'Q' has posted — and whose opinions are firmly committed — are handling the cognitive dissonance by saying: (rather, I'd suggest, as if they're trying to convince themselves)


'Q' has always included some disinfo, or
'Q' really meant a missile (of course), or even
'Q' is trying to get the FBI off his back so he now has to lie more frequently.

It may be fascinating to watch, if there's more like this. My bet is that in any further Q-and-A sessions (if they're not suspended!), many will just be firing test questions at him: not because they want to know the answers, but because they already know, and want to check how much of an authority 'Q' really is.

And meanwhile, for the believers, for some it's more and more like a trial-test of faith.

[Bill Ryan]

Even before the interesting Qanon Q-and-A last night US time, I was considering writing a piece detailing all the parallels between the 'Q' phenomenon and the Serpo phenomenon of 2005-6.

I might still write this, but the bulletpoints are:


It created a firestorm of interest and controversy in the alt community at the time (it generated the longest forum thread in ATS's history).
All the anonymous releases went to just one person for release (Victor Martinez), who has always refused to divulge the actual source(s).
At one point, the source was subverted by an imposter (ATS's attorney Wayne Jaeschke), and Victor Martinez was tricked. Hal Puthoff himself was involved in unmasking Jaeschke, as was I, and Jaeschke was subsequently fired from his prestigious East Coast law firm.
Victor Martinez revealed after a few months that the information he was receiving was now coming from a group, no longer one person.
Intel agencies (DIA and CIA) were definitely involved and VERY interested.
The anonymous sources made major promises (disclosure in 2006, and that authentic photographs would soon be published) — but they were never delivered.

There's quite a bit more, but that's the core of it.

The specific parallel with the plane-hit-the-Pentagon statement was a ludicrous release by 'anonymous' in which he/they listed the full inventory of all the equipment taken by the astronauts to the alien planet. It all made a lot of solid sense, until about 100 items down everyone came upon......


a lawnmower.

Everyone was shocked (at least!), and there were shrieks of protest. Within hours, the diehard believers were explaining how useful a lawnmower would be on Serpo. After all, you could use it as a generator, a winch, a wood chopper, a mixer, etc etc etc.

:)

The diehards were desperate. It was round about that time I thought it wise to start to considerably distance myself from the story. (I was the webmaster faithfully reporting on it all as neutrally as possible, but was also being contacted personally by a lot of real insiders.)

It was like the anonymous source(s) had grown tired of it all, even though some of the information was grounded in fact, and they were now just poking fun to see what they could get away with.

A few months later, the promised photographs of the alien planet were finally published. Reverse image searching quickly showed they were desert photos from a National Geographic book.

Game over. But the very major LARP had lasted over a year.

[ThePythonicCow]

What's interesting to me from a human viewpoint is how many people who have so far believed every word that 'Q' has posted ...
Where is this person, who believes every word that 'Q' has posted, including the warnings from Q himself that he sometimes posts disinfo, thus making this an example of a liar's paradox (https://www.iep.utm.edu/par-liar/) ?

[Joe from the Carolinas]

I put in a DOE FOIA request today for the names of all individuals with Q security clearance over the past 10 years. I was called by Kyle K, a FOIA officer at DOE. He indicated they could process my request, but after speaking with the security officer, the entire PAGE (not pages) would be redacted.

He also indicated that there is a liaison officer to the president within DOE, and while returns take a long time for current administrations, all DOE communications to and from the president go through the liaison officer.

I changed the nature of the request to receive all records over the last 10 years referring to Rockefeller.

[Clarity]

Pentagon

Is it possible that an aircraft could deployed a missile large enough to create that hole in the pentagon wall? If so, 'was the Pentagon hit by a plane on 911' would be a yes. (genuine question I have no beef either way.)

Moon Landings

I've always believed we have been to the moon but that the footage was fake. All Q is confirming is that we have been to the moon at some point.

Aliens

Q confirms that we are not alone. This has twitter in uproar more than the other two answers as many 'Q' followers are also Christians and are struggling with this answer.

[crosby]

Pentagon

Is it possible that an aircraft could deployed a missile large enough to create that hole in the pentagon wall? If so, 'was the Pentagon hit by a plane on 911' would be a yes. (genuine question I have no beef either way.)

Moon Landings

I've always believed we have been to the moon but that the footage was fake. All Q is confirming is that we have been to the moon at some point.

Aliens

Q confirms that we are not alone. This has twitter in uproar more than the other two answers as many 'Q' followers are also Christians and are struggling with this answer.

Yes....... I see how this can rock their world... the ultimate question/answer position is up to them - individually. Everyone has questions, and the answers are not always black and white. They have to be willing, like you and I, and millions of others, to delve into the true meaning of life and everything that life holds. It's a tough question - - the answers aren't so easy. But there are places like Project Avalon to lead the way to answering many. Welcome aboard!
warmest,
crosby

[ThePythonicCow]

I'd suggest that we not get too distracted by a discussion of what Q says did or did not hit the Pentagon on 9/11.

Depending on how I count, Q has dropped some 50,000 to 80,000 words in some 3000 posts over the 10+ months, focused on Trump's daily activities, on some of the key people in and around Trump, and on how Trump is draining the swamp, such as with North Korea, Saudi Arabia and especially the CIA, former Obama and Clinton officials, the Dept of Justice and the FBI. This is a massive, relatively high quality (if often cryptic and occasionally wrong, misleading or misinterpreted) data dump, of work in progress, with many hundreds of "proofs", that is of correlations between what Q says and what happens or could be verified subsequently.

Those of us who have been following Q are far more familiar with a large cast of characters and the roles they are, or have, played in this complex and unfolding drama than we would have been by any other means that I know of, or can even imagine. Smaller audiences could have been reached by more traditional means, but I do not know of any other way of reaching perhaps a million people with significant awareness of the details of such a complexity of rapidly evolving matters while these matters are being actively obfuscated by most of the existing major sources of news and information and a substantial number of former and current high level bureaucrats in the government.

The events of 9/11 have not been a major focus of Q.

I recommend that we not judge Q one way or the other on the basis of a single word answer that Q gave to a rather over simplified, if not out right loaded, question about the events of 9/11. He might not know, or he might know and choose not to say, or there might be sufficient ambiguity to the details or that some critical details might still be hidden that his "Yes" answer was legally or technically correct even though we who have researched 9/11 for many years "know" that the answer is "No".

All of us have areas where we have more, or less, skill and knowledge. Don't fire your cook because she can't (or pretends not to be able to) fix your car, and (I hope) don't fire your Avalon admin because he can't cook.

[Daozen]

Forget about the minute details for now, look at the bigger picture..

Q is maybe the 20th faux saviour to grace the alt media.

- Big shot comes along.
- Makes a lot of claims.
- Claims do not come true.
- Loss of credibility: The downswing starts.
- Hero is discarded.
- New liar appears.

We're now in the downswing phase. Obvious cracks appearing. Watching hardcore followers jump through mental hoops trying to defend their loosh investment is like watching a cartoon baddie falling down a well, clawing at the sides as he falls to his inevitable demise.

[norman]

The big shot is Trump, not Q.


I only care about Q in as much as "he" may be real. If he's not, my mind is focused on what needs to happen. This is a war, not academia.

[Ratszinger]

The only real bad thing about Q is the apparent exit whoever it is has left at the back door. The anonymous factor and not being able to put a face to this character or characters is the one thing that stood out from the beginning to the end. It allows for whoever it is to weigh options as to revealing their ID or not! IF things go as planned we may find out. If not, we'll never know it will always only be speculation.

[Daozen]

If it's a war, the most ineffective place to be is on the sidelines, begging and scraping for "intel"... 99% of "intel" has turned out to be duff, why should this be any different?

I think Q just exists to push the "Trump is an edgy white-hat" psy-op.

[Jayke]

Forget about the minute details for now, look at the bigger picture..

Q is maybe the 20th faux saviour to grace the alt media.

- Big shot comes along.
- Makes a lot of claims.
- Claims do not come true.
- Loss of credibility: The downswing starts.
- Hero is discarded.
- New liar appears.

We're now in the downswing phase. Obvious cracks appearing. Watching hardcore followers jump through mental hoops trying to defend their loosh investment is like watching a cartoon baddie falling down a well, clawing at the sides as he falls to his inevitable demise.

I’ve still not heard any of the Q-detractors address the red carpet FISA declassification prediction coming true yet? Doesn’t that break the chain of logic used to predict Q’s downfall? They’ve still got enough juice in the tank to keep the operation running for a good while yet.

Another question, do any of the Q followers actually see Q as a saviour? Or do they see Q as someone who just points a torch in certain directions? indicating a path to take where people might save themselves through their own education, research and resources?

I honestly couldn’t care less what Q says or doesn’t say. And I certainly wouldn’t trust anyone who told me Q is a saviour. It’s the secondary layer of research that stems from the Q drops that I gain value from. It’s the Anons who are doing the work for themselves that I support and appreciate, and from exploring all the minute details they’ve been bringing up, I’d say they’re doing a fantastic job. As I’m sure they’d carry on researching the corruption of the deep state if Q was removed from the narrative entirely. So the ‘Q as saviour’ fallacy is all a bit of a moot point imo.

[ThePythonicCow]

I honestly couldn’t care less what Q says or doesn’t say. And I certainly wouldn’t trust anyone who told me Q is a saviour. It’s the secondary layer of research that stems from the Q drops that I gain value from. It’s the Anons who are doing the work for themselves that I support and appreciate, and from exploring all the minute details they’ve been bringing up, I’d say they’re doing a fantastic job. As I’m sure they’d carry on researching the corruption of the deep state if Q was removed from the narrative entirely. So the ‘Q as saviour’ fallacy is all a bit of a moot point imo.
I quite agree Jayke, and replied as such, in my own words, to Daozen's comments, over on the pro-Q thread: The Qanon posts and a “Very Bad Day” Scenario - Post #7176 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters&p=1249704&viewfull=1#post1249704).

[Bill Ryan]

What's interesting to me from a human viewpoint is how many people who have so far believed every word that 'Q' has posted ...
Where is this person, who believes every word that 'Q' has posted, including the warnings from Q himself that he sometimes posts disinfo, thus making this an example of a liar's paradox (https://www.iep.utm.edu/par-liar/) ?

Here may be some of them.

http://projectavalon.net/Q_collage.jpg

[Ratszinger]

You sure see them every time Q directs them to Twitter. Q posted a pic basically bragging about the greatest military intelligence op not that long back. It would have to be though because technically speaking the constitution is suspended thanks to Bush and then Obama renewing the proclamation Bush signed into law late in his second term. Proclamation 7463 of September 14, 2001


Declaration of National Emergency by Reason of
Certain Terrorist Attacks

I read earlier that Rosenstein was in NY preparing to bring charges against Trump via NY states attorney on money laundering charges which would cause a 'constitutional crisis'. Tell me though, how exactly do you get into a constitutional crisis when the constitution is suspended because of the act signed into law by Obama late in his second term? We're under military law right now from what I can see so things may not be rolling out into play the way we expect. Anyone?

[crosby]

Forget about the minute details for now, look at the bigger picture..

Q is maybe the 20th faux saviour to grace the alt media.

- Big shot comes along.
- Makes a lot of claims.
- Claims do not come true.
- Loss of credibility: The downswing starts.
- Hero is discarded.
- New liar appears.

We're now in the downswing phase. Obvious cracks appearing. Watching hardcore followers jump through mental hoops trying to defend their loosh investment is like watching a cartoon baddie falling down a well, clawing at the sides as he falls to his inevitable demise.

"You bet your ass it's growing. Just look at the volume of the 'Q' channels on the you . tube that are taking off and growing like mad. that in itself is a quick reference to what is happening. Look at the volume on 8 chan and twitter..I don't even know about the underground channels that may actually be divulging more.... even the anti/Q crap is growing. That alone says it all. Stop, stop, stop, for just a minute, and think that something good might actually be happening here, please......... this is divisiveness at it's finest hour. Do not let it continue.
crosby "

I posted this over on the 'Q' thread and brought it here after I saw Paul's post. Enough already. Nobody actually knows what is going on and what the truth is, all we have to go on is what we see. The truth is NEVER on the down swing. Remeber that.
crosby

[norman]

Is it too late to make this thread a 3 way poll thread ?


I'm becoming annoyingly interested in finding out how many of the Q critics do or don't want the Trump revolution to succeed.

[mountain_jim]

Well even NeonRevolt, whose detailed coverage of Q posts I have often linked to, is not giving Q much support today.

A critical thinker, not a follower, he appears to me.

https://www.neonrevolt.com/2018/09/21/newq-snoozefest-edition-qanon/




That said, I’m… really disappointed with this next batch of drops. Possibly the most disappointed I’ve ever been. I’m just not seeing anything tremendous in these, and I’ve never said this in an article before, but I wouldn’t mind if you just skipped this article. (I know! I know!) I express my frustration at more than one turn, and it’s not pretty.

Some people don’t like that. They think I’m getting pissy, and complain that it’s not my job and Q knows better, and yadda yadda yadda, cue the boring, trite, dead-horse boomer-logic.

Too bad. It’s my site; I do what I want. I say what I want, And I’m not a sheep.

I’m also not some QAnon cheerleader, endlessly trying to think up new cheer patterns in preparation for the “big game.” Frankly, I think these drops suck, and they really don’t say much at all. In fact, for the first time, they give me MORE reason to doubt Q, after last night.

So, literally for no other reason than completeness, here’s the most underwhelming #NewQ post I’ve ever written:

...
I’m up to my ears in [0] deltas, guys. I never found them particularly convincing anyway – and I don’t think normies are really gonna care, either.

We just went another week kicking the DECLAS can down the road. Kavanaugh still isn’t confirmed. FEMA can’t even send out a simple text.

I know it’s all gonna happen at some point, but when you combine it with posts of such a boring and relatively-useless caliber, well… you shouldn’t be surprised I don’t have anything positive to say.

If you’re angry that I’m reacting this way to the drops, you shouldn’t be.

Frankly, you should be asking the same questions I’m asking, and voicing your own concerns.

Anything less isn’t thinking critically.

It’s just being a different kind of sheep.

..

Sorry guys. That’s just where I’m at with these posts. I know you want the in-depth digs. I know you want the serious analysis. There was just… nothing, literally nothing here that I could work with tonight. I kept holding off on the article, hoping Q would post something substantial, but no, it was not to be.

No ad today. I’m too disappointed in the drops, not just from this day, but from the past few days.

[crosby]

Lets be a different kind of sheep for a minute, lets just not pay attention to anything, like a large majority of the world..... how does that change anything? How, pray tell, do we get anyone to do anything? How do we wake people up?
crosby

[crosby]

Is it too late to make this thread a 3 way poll thread ?


I'm becoming annoyingly interested in finding out how many of the Q critics do or don't want the Trump revolution to succeed.

I say we make a separate thread to make this possible. I'm mad as hell now and I want to see where this is going to go.
crosby

[ichingcarpenter]

Goode and his alliance breaks down Qanon with Jimmy Church for you all

34 mins to 56 mins

Corey Goode joins us to talk about Qanon and the recent Secret Space Program posts that have gone vireal around the web ...



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Didn't know on which thread to post this on.....pro vs alternative

[Bill Ryan]

Is it too late to make this thread a 3 way poll thread ?

I'm becoming annoyingly interested in finding out how many of the Q critics do or don't want the Trump revolution to succeed.

Well, I'm an Alex Jones supporter. Where does that place me in that 3-way logic?

:)

My own logic:


Alex Jones supports Trump (and did a LOT to get him elected).
Q denounces Alex Jones.
Alex Jones has been pilloried and censored by the mainstream.
Q is also trying to sideline Alex Jones, and is therefore either an intel-operated psy-op, or a group of private individuals with a personal agenda. I suspect the latter, but it may be the former.

[norman]

I think the dichotomy between Q and Alex is part of the process. Steve Pieczenik has said a few things over the last couple of years that indicate Alex is being used to fullfil a greater play than "is Alex fake or is Q fake?".


I think Alex is beginning to realise that, too, and he is glad to be of service. He just wants to beat the 'globalists', but he surely doesn't have all the facts or the whole plan.



He's wrong about a few things, in my book. For instance, when, in that recent interview he was asked for quick-fire definitions of names the interviewer threw at him, e.g Hillary Clinton - vampire etc etc, when it got to Edward Snowden, Alex said patriot. The evidence suggests that Snowden was a CIA plant inside the NSA to screw up the NSA after the CIA developed it's own cyber spying system to take over. Alex should probably have said traitor, by the rules of that little word game.


Alex was tasked by high-ups at the whitehouse to stir the pot. He knows what he's doing is for the greater good. His personality is fulfilling that greater good very well. His banning is bringing the fake news issue to a head. Q is steering a path away from Alex's task ( if he's genuine, and I still think he is ). The is a meme war as much as it's anything else. Facing the kind of media opposition that the Trump administration is facing, they can't afford to have Alex and Q occupying the same meme space. It's for the same reason the Marines never walk in a tight bunch.

[Bill Ryan]

Here's an interesting point brought up by Corey Goode himself, at 54:50 in his call to Jimmy Church last night in the video shared in this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104156-QAnon-An-Opposing-Viewpoint-LARP-Psyop-Cult-or-Something-Even-More-Sinister&p=1249736&viewfull=1#post1249736).

He suggests that a large portion of the right-wing 'Q' audience, many of whom really are conservative in many ways, and also many of whom are devout Christians who equate ETs to demons, will now go straight to Google and search for "Secret Space Program" — maybe never even having heard of the term before.

If they do that (try it!), the first result Google generates is Gaia TV.

Corey suggests this is a very valuable 'Q' spin-off. And yes, it may possibly be. The Secret Space Program is real, for sure, and has been a well-kept secret for decades. But part of where some of this now heads may depend on what 'Q' followers are going to be reading and watching when they DO dig further.

You can bet that David Wilcock, Michael Salla, Jimmy Church, and Gaia TV — maybe not all working together — are going to capitalize on this as much as they possibly can.

I'm not even sure if this is on-topic on this thread. But as this all flows and expands, like a large churn of milk spilled all over the floor, this is now a new part of the complex mess that's been created.

[Bill Ryan]

I think the dichotomy between Q and Alex is part of the process. Steve Pieczenik has said a few things over the last couple of years that indicate Alex is being used to fullfil a greater play than "is Alex fake or is Q fake?".

I think Alex is beginning to realise that, too, and he is glad to be of service. He just wants to beat the 'globalists', but he surely doesn't have all the facts or the whole plan.

He's wrong about a few things, in my book. For instance, when, in that recent interview he was asked for quick-fire definitions of names the interviewer threw at him, e.g Hillary Clinton - vampire etc etc, when it got to Edward Snowden, Alex said patriot. The evidence suggests that Snowden was a CIA plant inside the NSA to screw up the NSA after the CIA developed it's own cyber spying system to take over. Alex should probably have said traitor, by the rules of that little word game.

Alex was tasked by high-ups at the whitehouse to stir the pot. He knows what he's doing is for the greater good. His personality is fulfilling that greater good very well. His banning is bringing the fake news issue to a head. Q is steering a path away from Alex's task ( if he's genuine, and I still think he is ). The is a meme war as much as it's anything else. Facing the kind of media opposition that the Trump administration is facing, they can't afford to have Alex and Q occupying the same meme space. It's for the same reason the Marines never walk in a tight bunch.

I genuinely enjoyed and appreciated your very well-argued and articulate reply. (I do mean that!)

But I disagree with almost all of it. :)

[Ratszinger]

I think the dichotomy between Q and Alex is part of the process. Steve Pieczenik has said a few things over the last couple of years that indicate Alex is being used to fullfil a greater play than "is Alex fake or is Q fake?".


I think Alex is beginning to realise that, too, and he is glad to be of service. He just wants to beat the 'globalists', but he surely doesn't have all the facts or the whole plan.



He's wrong about a few things, in my book. For instance, when, in that recent interview he was asked for quick-fire definitions of names the interviewer threw at him, e.g Hillary Clinton - vampire etc etc, when it got to Edward Snowden, Alex said patriot. The evidence suggests that Snowden was a CIA plant inside the NSA to screw up the NSA after the CIA developed it's own cyber spying system to take over. Alex should probably have said traitor, by the rules of that little word game.


Alex was tasked by high-ups at the whitehouse to stir the pot. He knows what he's doing is for the greater good. His personality is fulfilling that greater good very well. His banning is bringing the fake news issue to a head. Q is steering a path away from Alex's task ( if he's genuine, and I still think he is ). The is a meme war as much as it's anything else. Facing the kind of media opposition that the Trump administration is facing, they can't afford to have Alex and Q occupying the same meme space. It's for the same reason the Marines never walk in a tight bunch.

Something else little talked about is Q's post number 916 from back in March around the tenth, 2018. There Q said, "We are saving Israel for last. Very specific reason not mentioned a single time. Israel@top of pyramid.

Now if the above is the case it would make sense wouldn't it that they would in fact need Alex out of the way before bringing up Israel. Alex had a rift with Rense years back about that as some older folks to this may recall and he has never spoken about Jews or Zionists that I can recall so it seems to me he'd be opposed to that portion of the reveal and likely very loudly yes? So now he is out of the way and they can present what they've been saving for last. >>??

[Daozen]

Face it Gentlemen, the goose is cooked. The irritability you are feeling now is a symptom of the energy of the Q movement evaporating. The same thing happened with the Keshe thread. His followers got mad when challenged.

This thread was supposed to be a safe haven for anti-Q and Q-fence-sitters to discuss their thoughts in peace and quiet. Why is it now over-run with Qboids fiercely protecting their leader?

Jayke, it does not matter if Q correctly predicted that FISA business. All that means is he is in collusion with Trump or someone in the Whitehouse. That does not mean he is benevolent, intelligent or honest.


Stop, stop, stop, for just a minute, and think that something good might actually be happening here, please......... this is divisiveness at it's finest hour. Do not let it continue.
crosby "

I posted this over on the 'Q' thread and brought it here after I saw Paul's post. Enough already. Nobody actually knows what is going on and what the truth is, all we have to go on is what we see. The truth is NEVER on the down swing. Remeber that.
crosby

*

I say we make a separate thread to make this possible. I'm mad as hell now and I want to see where this is going to go.
crosby

Crosby, please do not use anger to try and enforce silence or group-think. It is ungentlemanly.

Norman, there is no Trump revolution. If he cared a hang for the good people of America, he'd tell them about Iodine and Linus Pauling therapy. Curing heart disease would put a trillion bucks back into the economy overnight.

Paul, thank you for your response but I'm getting dizzy bouncing between threads. Post it here. Let the debate continue.

I counted the number of Q T-Shirts in the pictures posted by Bill (a Q neutral). I count about 10 people. They could be intel plants posing for snaps, or genuinely gullible people. 10 ppl and a bunch of youtube channels doesn't make a movement.

This post is somewhat rambling. I trust you all find something of value in it.

Q is a consummate Black Magician.

[Bill Ryan]

Is it too late to make this thread a 3 way poll thread ?

I'm becoming annoyingly interested in finding out how many of the Q critics do or don't want the Trump revolution to succeed.

I say we make a separate thread to make this possible. I'm mad as hell now and I want to see where this is going to go.
crosby

I think Norman was asking a rhetorical question. At least, I hope he was! :)

To risk paraphrasing him — without disrespect, because I respect Norman a lot — I think he was saying that if one supports Trump, then one has to support 'Q'.

That's just a little like George Bush's famous no-way-out proclamation after 9/11: "Either you're with US, or you're with the terrorists."

The emphasis here isn't about his reference to 'terrorism'. It's about his black-and-white logic, with no other alternative view admitted.

Here's my question in return. It's a theoretical one.

IF — and I mean IF — 'Q' was proven to be a LARP (for instance, through a genuine confession that was accepted as such), would you consider that it was nonetheless a very valuable device?

Or would you be disappointed because 'Q' had actually been dishonest and misleading throughout, allowing his audience, through persistent silence about his identity, to believe what they wanted?

Some historical theologians believe Jesus allowed his followers to maintain their belief that he was the literal Son of God (though he'd never actually intended that) — because his teaching would then have more impact.

If so, was that justified? Look at how that's all been twisted, even now, 2000 years later. Maybe that truly Great Man was mortal, and his don't-correct-my-believers strategem was a tactical mistake.

I suspect some people think it doesn't matter who or what 'Q' is, because it's the functionality of the generated inspiration that matters. AI? The smart prankster teenage son of a CIA officer? An intel wedge to create division, or worse?

Who cares. It's only the message that counts, right? Well, not necessarily.

So my question again: if this was a smart, informed prankster group, or any similar variant of that, would that matter to you?

(We could always hold a poll about that, too. :) )

[Deux Corbeaux]

I genuinely enjoyed and appreciated your very well-argued and articulate reply. (I do mean that!)

But I disagree with almost all of it. :)

I hope you'll all forgive me, but I had to think of this one....... ;-)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPpzJAzdpTU

Back to topic.

[norman]

Actually, I was wondering how closely tied together the anti Trump feeling was with the anti Q thinking.


I don't mind people thinking Q is a LARP. I do mind people thinking Trump is an idiot who has to be got rid of to save the world.

[Bill Ryan]

I don't mind people thinking Q is a LARP. I do mind people thinking Trump is an idiot who has to be got rid of to save the world.

I agree 100%. :highfive:

[Ba-ba-Ra]

I don't mind people thinking Q is a LARP. I do mind people thinking Trump is an idiot who has to be got rid of to save the world.

Reflects my feelings, thank you for putting it so simply, Norman

I believe most in the Q camp feel that even if Q isn't legitimate that he/they/she/it has served a great purpose in bringing many of us together to research for the truth. Those who say we are following Q blindly are being mislead by MSN and other naysayers imo. Many of us are spending a great deal of time on research which we are sharing with each other. Q has woken many up - this alone has been worth a great deal for our planet.

I know that if it turns out that Q is a LARP or hoax on any level, I won't go into any kind of an emotional meltdown or even be surprised and I expect this will be true for the many participating on the Q thread. Most are intelligent people simply seeking truth - not followers looking for some guru or hero.

[Matthew]

Q is successful whatever Q is, so Q dos :)

I love the movement, because it is shining a light on otherwise brushed aside topics.

Someone close to me was previously going on about Corey Goode, but since Q they have instead, been talking about pizzagate. This is thanks to Q. This is a better subject for people to learn about! Thank you Q and project avalon pro-Qers. As to how Q works; either as intel. dumps or a LARP, the effect is the same. If it is not intel. dumps, it's the sort of thing I like to know.

[Dennis Leahy]

Actually, I was wondering how closely tied together the anti Trump feeling was with the anti Q thinking.


I don't mind people thinking Q is a LARP. I do mind people thinking Trump is an idiot who has to be got rid of to save the world.
What about those of us that DO want trump out of power, along with EVERY SINGLE republican and democrat? What if we do want barry obomber and killary to go to prison, but we still know that trump IS an idiot? (I honestly would have to guess that pence is even worse, and killary worse yet, and ... believe it or not, bernie sanders may be the worst of all, due to his ability to obfuscate all things zionist and militarist.) It isn't trump - it isn't just trump. And, it sure looks like his idea of draining the swamp is partisan: he wants to drain the democrat sludge out of the system, and that is ignorance - ignoring the republican sludge that is half the problem.

[norman]

Actually, I was wondering how closely tied together the anti Trump feeling was with the anti Q thinking.


I don't mind people thinking Q is a LARP. I do mind people thinking Trump is an idiot who has to be got rid of to save the world.
What about those of us that DO want trump out of power, along with EVERY SINGLE republican and democrat? What if we do want barry obomber and killary to go to prison, but we still know that trump IS an idiot? (I honestly would have to guess that pence is even worse, and killary worse yet, and ... believe it or not, bernie sanders may be the worst of all, due to his ability to obfuscate all things zionist and militarist.) It isn't trump - it isn't just trump. And, it sure looks like his idea of draining the swamp is partisan: he wants to drain the democrat sludge out of the system, and that is ignorance - ignoring the republican sludge that is half the problem.


I think I addressed that issue in this post here:


I agree.


There's a political dynamics limiter that will have to be played in a longer game.


Trump can't blow up his own political base. That's a political insanity.


Ideally, there needs to be someone honest and on the same page as Trump, who rises up on the left and takes the Democratic ticket when Trump's 8 years are up. THEN, the Republican political base can be blown up safely.


Got any ideas who that someone could be ?


mod edit- added text of post referenced to retain flow of thread

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters&p=1246019&viewfull=1#post1246019









Actually, after I posted that, another Avalon member sent me a suggestion who could pop up on the left:

https://vgy.me/awKpo3.jpg

===

[ Mod-edit: Spoiler alert: Thanks to Google image search, I realize that the above is Tulsi Gabbard (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/10/tulsi-gabbard-how-a-progressive-rising-star-is-a-paradox-for-the-left), representative to the US Congress from Hawaii, and member of Democratic party. - Paul. ]

[Ratszinger]

I'm kinda in the category with Dennis, and Bill or between those. I think you could say I follow Q. It doesn't mean I'm a believer or that I'm against Potus or the constitution if I don't care for or trust Donald Trump necessarily. Quite honestly many of us were as concerned at Q supporting DJT as others seemed to be at Q saying planes hit the towers and the pentagon building. Anyway, I'm not sure exactly when DJT rose above the image he had all the years on reality TV or how exactly john q public forgot that? Nor am I clear on when or how Russia became our enemy when they were apparently just fine for Hillary to sell uranium to.

Draining the swamp is something I want too but don't criminalize me if I feel Trump is likely part of the swamp. I feel he probably is just as likely a sexual deviant as Bill Clinton ever was and he is just as likely someone that laundered money as the Clinton's or the McCain's. I mean come on the guy has dealt with mob to do his Atlantic City loans from way back so he has mob ties just like Hillary does but why do Q followers put blinders on to this? And why can't I be skeptical about DJT while still following Q and wanting it to be real even if I do have doubts!?

[Dennis Leahy]

Actually, I was wondering how closely tied together the anti Trump feeling was with the anti Q thinking.


I don't mind people thinking Q is a LARP. I do mind people thinking Trump is an idiot who has to be got rid of to save the world.
... it isn't just trump. And, it sure looks like his idea of draining the swamp is partisan: he wants to drain the democrat sludge out of the system, and that is ignorance - ignoring the republican sludge that is half the problem.


I think I addressed that issue in this post here:


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters&p=1246019&viewfull=1#post1246019


...
==

[ Mod-edit: Spoiler alert: Thanks to Google image search, I realize that the above is Tulsi Gabbard (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/10/tulsi-gabbard-how-a-progressive-rising-star-is-a-paradox-for-the-left), representative to the US Congress from Hawaii, and member of Democratic party. - Paul. ]

I'm not sure you're catching my drift. The "duopoly" is a mobster cabal, the front organization for the people (and lizards! hahaha) that actually run the USA, INC. from behind the curtain (some call the "deep state" or "shadow government.") The people that actually run the USA, INC. (and much of the world) are not "democrats" and "republicans", regardless if their wikipedia page says so - they are a cabal of greed-based, insatiably-power-hungry mobsters. The two clubs (d and r) within the visible cabal (duopoly) use whichever handle is most conducive to them getting into power and remaining in power. Wasn't donny-boy a democrat once?* Don't be fooled by the kabuki. And, dear god and Orwell, please stop calling the democrats "left", unless you mean "left hand of the duopoly." There is nothing ideologically "leftist" about democrats.

gabbard is another zionist-militarist, and by virtue of being in the duopoly, corporatist/fascist.

*(I'll answer that question: no, donald was never a democrat or republican - he was always a duopoly member.)

[onawah]

My continuing beefs with Trump which haven't been mentioned recently, I think, are still his disregard for the environment (shortsighted), for Native people (dishonorable) and for the animal kingdom (compassionaless). A recent editorial in my local paper expressed it pretty well:
"Climate wreckers On July 13, 2017, Trump told reporters, “We’ve got underneath us more oil than anybody, and nobody knew it until five years ago. And I want to use it. And I don’t want that taken away by the Paris Accord. I don’t want them to say all of that wealth that the United States has under its feet, but that China doesn’t have and that other countries don’t have, we can’t use. So now we no longer have the advantage. We have a tremendous advantage. We have more natural resources under our feet than any other country. That’s a pretty big statement. Ten years ago, five years ago even, you couldn’t make that statement. We’re blessed. I don’t want to give it up. I don’t want to say oh, okay, we won’t use it.” Trump was explaining his decision to withdraw from the UN Paris Climate Agreement to continue fracking oil and gas. To get it done, Trump eliminated essential environmental protections, trading public health for fuel and money. Ignoring the mandate to protect public lands, Trump sold National Monuments for drilling and mining, and deep water leases for off-shore drilling. Trump is an American traitor. Trump is destroying our economy and international free trade agreements. Fracking for oil and gas has three main problems. Depletion, pollution and negative cash flow. Unlike conventional oil fields, fracking wells have a short-life and high-cost. Top shale production wells are used to sell empty holes. The carbon footprint from clean water, sand mines, crude oil storage farms, leaking pipelines, and house fires from high pressure gas lines is a chain of pollution and permanent destruction.The truth about fracking is in the news: “Frackers burn cash to sustain US oil boom” – “Wall Street tells frackers: stop counting barrels, start making profits,” and “How America’s most reckless billionaire created the fracking boom.” Trump did not create the fracking boom, but like a serial arsonist, Trump added fuel to the fire. FEMA’s leadership is unreliable, $10 million from FEMA was transferred to Homeland Security for ICE. FEMA’s abandonment of Puerto Rico will not be forgotten.
Climate cowards Why would the Republican Congress, governors, and public officials let Trump do as he pleases? With lies, intimidation and flattery, Trump has destroyed our environment and taken public and indigenous sacred lands. Let’s hold the GOP responsible, or throw them out. Trump is not the genius he claims to be. He ignores expert advice and does not care for the truth. Trump is incapable to lead the climate crisis recovery." Dr. Luis Contreras

Of course, it doesn't mention things like the rise in earthquake and volcanic activity caused by fracking and drilling, and other issues such as those being covered by Dutchsince and StopTheCrime.net. But for a small town local paper, it was a pretty good article.

[norman]

Make up your mind what you are arguing about Dennis, I can't engage with something as slippery as your high horsepower keyboard circuit racer trickery.


You are brilliant at lapping in front of a crowd, but you are not listening to anyone you don't understand and you're not sticking to anything politically realistic and doable.


Do you want to go anywhere with your left right unfairness issue from a post ago, or do we have to jump over another hurdle this time to keep you on the front foot and everyone else on the back foot.


This isn't debate, is intellectual delinquency.

[Ascension]

You are brilliant at lapping in front of a crowd, but you are not listening to anyone you don't understand and you're not sticking to anything politically realistic and doable.

That is because it is not doable at the level you believe something is being done. The power structure in place is global and will not be affected by "swamp draining" - which incidentally has not happened, nor will it happen, and it will not be affected by the people you "vote" into office. It's like thinking you can take out an entire ant hill by stepping on a couple sacrificed straggler ants.

The entire world is a LARP with the elite playing and funding both sides of every issue, creating division wherever they go, using Hollywood and the media, both mainstream and alt, to create the fake news used to divide us, distract us and confuse us. All the while, making political and military moves which further their agendas behind the scenes.

Meanwhile, here at Avalon, we continue to argue the point whether or not Q is real, often with great passion. This is emotional energy and time invested in limited scope movement presented by an unknown individual or group for with no real mandate, causing people to hop from crumb to crumb while thinking they are uncovering the true nature of the evil that surrounds us.

I honestly do not know if there have even been any crumbs on previously unknown issues that led researchers to the corrupt world power structure. Unfortunately, if those crumbs exist at all, they are nested inside a movement stuck inside a false two-party paradigm, I am not inclined to spend much time at it. At the same time, I am curious why so many people are so passionate. It is, at the very least, an indicator of how many people recognize the corruption at some level and desire change, even if they cannot see that it extends way beyond the boundaries of politics in the USA.

At best, it might be waking someone up to something in an entertaining way. At worst, it's fruitlessy dividing us again, draining our time and energy.

[Daozen]

The "It doesn't matter who (X) is, he's woken many people up" mantra being employed by many posters about Q now, was also used to defend Corey Goode when his story began to unravel. I remember a senior enforcer from the Cobra group saying it "didn't matter" if Corey's story was real or not, because he'd "woken people up" and got them "researching the Secret Space Program".

"It doesn't matter who he is, he's brought so many people together" is a standard defense used once a psy-op begins to show major cracks.

Knowledge of false flags, the cabal, + international cartels was all over the Internet way before Q came around. I don't think Q has added significantly to the numbers of people researching those phenomena. Even if he has, what of the danger that those people will be misdirected and sent on wild goose chases?

Due to the inherent dishonesty of his broadcast, I think Q's sown nothing but confusion. And I think that was the intent from the beginning. Misdirection with a side order of T-Shirt sales.

And why is this area of the alt media so heavily targeted? Because among the illusionists, there are partially-awakened-powerful-souls, who have a greater capacity than normal to steer and create timelines. The cabal need their consent to continue building global government. By addicting people to an intel drip feed, they create a subservient and meek readership. Of course, Q-believers, being skilled double-talkers, will argue that they are by no means subservient and meek. But I see a lot of energy being expended here, and very little useful work being done.

[Jayke]

The "It doesn't matter who (X) is, he's woken many people up" mantra being employed by many posters about Q now, was also used to defend Corey Goode when his story began to unravel. I remember a senior enforcer from the Cobra group saying it "didn't matter" if Corey's story was real or not, because he'd "woken people up" and got them "researching the Secret Space Program".

"It doesn't matter who he is, he's brought so many people together" is a standard defense used once a psy-op begins to show major cracks.

Knowledge of false flags, the cabal, + international cartels was all over the Internet way before Q came around. I don't think Q has added significantly to the numbers of people researching those phenomena. Even if he has, what of the danger that those people will be misdirected and sent on wild goose chases?

Due to the inherent dishonesty of his broadcast, I think Q's sown nothing but confusion. And I think that was the intent from the beginning. Misdirection with a side order of T-Shirt sales.

And why is this area of the alt media so heavily targeted? Because among the illusionists, there are partially-awakened-powerful-souls, who have a greater capacity than normal to steer and create timelines. The cabal need their consent to continue building global government. By addicting people to an intel drip feed, they create a subservient and meek readership. Of course, Q-believers, being skilled double-talkers, will argue that they are by no means subservient and meek. But I see a lot of energy being expended here, and very little useful work being done.

You do play the role of the Melancholic very well Daozen, as I predicted would be one of the 4 major mindsets interpreting Q’s drops back in post 123 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104156-QAnon-An-Opposing-Viewpoint-LARP-Psyop-Cult-or-Something-Even-More-Sinister&p=1248252&viewfull=1#post1248252).

There is a lot of talk at the moment though. What useful work do you suggest we should be doing instead? How can we steal Q’s thunder and redirect the Q-train, with all the addicts aboard, onto a narrative track that’ll actually wake people up to the highest levels of enlightenment and productivity possible? How do we co-opt the psy-op and do some genuinely enlightening operations of our own?

Now that might be a fun LARP worth exploring.

[onawah]

Exactly! :nod: :bump:


You are brilliant at lapping in front of a crowd, but you are not listening to anyone you don't understand and you're not sticking to anything politically realistic and doable.

That is because it is not doable at the level you believe something is being done. The power structure in place is global and will not be affected by "swamp draining" - which incidentally has not happened, nor will it happen, and it will not be affected by the people you "vote" into office. It's like thinking you can take out an entire ant hill by stepping on a couple sacrificed straggler ants.

The entire world is a LARP with the elite playing and funding both sides of every issue, creating division wherever they go, using Hollywood and the media, both mainstream and alt, to create the fake news used to divide us, distract us and confuse us. All the while, making political and military moves which further their agendas behind the scenes.

Meanwhile, here at Avalon, we continue to argue the point whether or not Q is real, often with great passion. This is emotional energy and time invested in limited scope movement presented by an unknown individual or group for with no real mandate, causing people to hop from crumb to crumb while thinking they are uncovering the true nature of the evil that surrounds us.

I honestly do not know if there have even been any crumbs on previously unknown issues that led researchers to the corrupt world power structure. Unfortunately, if those crumbs exist at all, they are nested inside a movement stuck inside a false two-party paradigm, I am not inclined to spend much time at it. At the same time, I am curious why so many people are so passionate. It is, at the very least, an indicator of how many people recognize the corruption at some level and desire change, even if they cannot see that it extends way beyond the boundaries of politics in the USA.

At best, it might be waking someone up to something in an entertaining way. At worst, it's fruitlessy dividing us again, draining our time and energy.

[Daozen]

You do play the role of the Melancholic very well Daozen, as I predicted would be one of the 4 major mindsets interpreting Q’s drops back in post 123 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104156-QAnon-An-Opposing-Viewpoint-LARP-Psyop-Cult-or-Something-Even-More-Sinister&p=1248252&viewfull=1#post1248252).

There is a lot of talk at the moment though. What useful work do you suggest we should be doing instead? How can we steal Q’s thunder and redirect the Q-train, with all the addicts aboard, onto a narrative track that’ll actually wake people up to the highest levels of enlightenment and productivity possible? How do we co-opt the psy-op and do some genuinely enlightening operations of our own?

Now that might be a fun LARP worth exploring.

I am no melancholic. I think this whole thing is kind of funny. I didn't spend any energy on it for a year because it was obvious lies. And may I say Jayke, I have never read such mind-bending double-talk as your posts in this thread. You have now convinced yourself, and half a dozen others, that black is white several times over.

Ensnaring people in political discourse is by no means high enlightenment.


What useful work do you suggest we should be doing instead?

Cure someone. Feed someone. Invent a healing device. Plant a garden. Filter water. Design something useful.

The Q psy-op is probably designed as a one-size-fits all false promise to anyone who may potentially start looking beyond the MSM. As they start Googling, Q is waiting. The first moat as people attempt to escape the black castle. False promises of easy freedom given to stunt people's will to escape.

Look at the language: Drops, breadcrumbs... all designed to cultivate a servile mentality from his readership. Even though they will swear blind he is not leading them... He is leading them.

I know you can talk rings around anyone. I'm just not convinced by anything you have to say.

[Jayke]

You have no idea just how melancholic you’re being right now Daozen :ROFL: I love it.


And may I say Jayke, I have never read such mind-bending double-talk as your posts in this thread. You have now convinced yourself, and half a dozen others, that black is white several times over.

Ensnaring people in political discourse is by no means high enlightenment.

In other words, you don’t want to discuss any of the specific points I’ve brought up, so you’ll just insult me and accuse me of being a magician instead. :facepalm: I personally find political discourse to be more enlightening than projecting empty, unsubstantiated, fears around. In terms of psychology, the ones accusing others of double-speak are generally the ones that implement it. You don’t have to take my word for it either. I’ve always recommended people read Clare Graves Levels of Human Experience (https://www.amazon.com/Levels-Human-Existence-Clare-Graves/dp/097247420X). It’s like a Rosetta Stone for understanding the inter-relational dynamics of different values systems playing out in the world right now. Will anyone bother enlightening themselves about the inner dynamics of the human condition anytime soon? I remain hopeful, but I doubt it.

[Daozen]

I don't want to discuss with you much Jayke, because I don't think you're sincere. Every post from you brings another round of pseudo-points I have to engage with. Yes, you are good with words and verbal somersaults. I have watched you jump, twist, and pirouette... a wonderful display.... and yet something is amiss.

- I told you what I thought of the FISA prediction. You ignored it.
- I never called you a magician, you're making that up. Nor did I insult or "accuse" you of anything.
- Name-dropping a psychology book, as if it adds weight to the Q movement or your arguments, is just an attempt to give your posts an academic sounding glow.

You've responded to to 3 or 4 of my posts these past weeks. Sorry, just don't have time to take the bait any more.

I shall leave you to dance in the fading half-light... Adieu.

[Jayke]

I don't want to discuss with you much Jayke, because I don't think you're sincere. Every post from you brings another round of pseudo-points I have to engage with. Yes, you are good with words and verbal somersaults. I have watched you jump, twist, and pirouette... a wonderful display.... and yet something is amiss.

- I told you what I thought of the FISA prediction. You ignored it.
- I never called you a magician, you're making that up. Nor did I insult or "accuse" you of anything.
- Name-dropping a psychology book, as if it adds weight to the Q movement or your arguments, is just an attempt to give your posts an academic sounding glow.

You've responded to to 3 or 4 of my posts these past weeks. Sorry, just don't have time to take the bait any more.

I shall leave you to dance in the fading half-light... Adieu.

Actually, the book is one of the most important books I’ve ever read, and it does describe the dynamics of the Q movement perfectly. As I’ve been saying on the forum for over a year now. The world is going through a shift from the level 6 to level 7 archetype. All the arguing, insincere projections and Alinsky method double-speak is all just part of that process. I haven’t shifted from that stance, and I haven’t seen anyone who can prove otherwise.

No worries Daozen, I prefer dance partners that actually have moves that are substantiated with facts rather than opinions anyway, so I’ll leave you to your subjective troubles. Adieu, my melancholic pseudo-friend! :dancing:

[Cognitive Dissident]

On the subject of who/what is Q, I recently saw a series of remote viewings by Edward Riordan on this subject. Having searched his name, he only appears in one post on Avalon from 2014. The links are below. Basically, Riordan has no idea who Q is and doesn't follow his postings, he's just doing the remote viewing. His viewings show a lot of strangeness, a very clean and high tech area, a group of people who sometimes disagree with each other, some sort of biological robot, an overarching agenda for a new world/awakening in the 2020s - not benevolent, more like a breakaway civilisation. Very powerful technology. Not sure what to make of this but it is interesting. Riordan is just reporting and trying to make sense of his results. He seems to be technically good at RV so there may be something there. His channel is at https://www.youtube.com/user/erviewer

The Q related posts start at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN4SmKNwA44
and go through to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8N3L4xwawE

[ThePythonicCow]

On the subject of who/what is Q, I recently saw a series of remote viewings by Edward Riordan on this subject.
Here's links to all 7 of the videos in this series. These videos were all posted between Sept 15 and 20 of this year, 2018 (just in the last week). They are videos of Remote Viewing (RV) sessions that he conducted between July 15-25 2018.
Remote Viewing: I'm Posting The Q anon Sessions. The Hands Behind the Hand? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN4SmKNwA44)
Remote Viewing: The Q anon Sessions 3 and 4, Clandestine Meetings? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCnQZWY_jOc)
Remote Viewing: The Qanon Sessions #5 Pt. 1, The Phantom (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ8_mIiHpaw)
Remote Viewing: Q Anon Session 5 Pt 2. The Flash (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gjLL-svjy0)
Remote Viewing: The Q anon Session 6. The Event Horizon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxIutZCmFkw)
Remote Viewing: The Q Anon Session 7 Pt. 1 Machine Learning (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5aHPUSoMnY)
Remote Viewing: The Q anon Sessions, 7 Pt 2. The Fringe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8N3L4xwawE)
I don't usually have much interest in RV results, but I am finding Riordan's opening comments interesting. He's finding Q to be something way bigger than just some political back and forth involving President Trump ... way bigger, something involving high tech, secret facilities and experiments, global, hidden Elites in what is perhaps a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF), nano-biology, massive world changing event or broadcast, world wide controlling people's emotions, directed energy, teleportation, world wide control grid (satellite, 5G, ?), incredible new technology, some living forever, and other more exotic stuff.

[onawah]

The key words being "not benevolent, more like a breakaway civilisation."
His viewings show a lot of strangeness, a very clean and high tech area, a group of people who sometimes disagree with each other, some sort of biological robot, an overarching agenda for a new world/awakening in the 2020s - not benevolent, more like a breakaway civilisation. Very powerful technology.

[TheBeYonder]

LARK was JFK'S secret name lark=3+1+9+2=15
when JFK jr was born, he too got a secret service name
lark2= 15+2 = 17
Q=17

¤=[Post Update]=¤

There is 'much' in 'the way' of magic going on...
no matter whether or NOT 'Q' was cooked up in someone's kitchen
there are some groups on facebook with over 50,000 members...
folks are starting to exchange, and, the exchange is waking them up !!!

[Dennis Leahy]

Make up your mind what you are arguing about Dennis, I can't engage with something as slippery as your high horsepower keyboard circuit racer trickery.


You are brilliant at lapping in front of a crowd, but you are not listening to anyone you don't understand and you're not sticking to anything politically realistic and doable.


Do you want to go anywhere with your left right unfairness issue from a post ago, or do we have to jump over another hurdle this time to keep you on the front foot and everyone else on the back foot.


This isn't debate, is intellectual delinquency.
I've got no idea what you are trying to pin on me, and hope you are not deliberately being disingenuous.

I said both factions of the duopoly are the problem, draining half is no solution.

You said you addressed that, and linked to yourself saying, Trump can't cut his own base. (half of the duopoly) And, you said, maybe after the republican half of the duopoly drains the democrat half, ... "Ideally, there needs to be someone honest and on the same page as Trump, who rises up on the left and takes the Democratic ticket when Trump's 8 years are up. THEN, the Republican political base can be blown up safely."

Sorry, that's kinda "Wile E Coyote" simplistic, isn't it? That's your idea of, "politically realistic and doable"?

Let's go back through this and you tell me where the trickery is:
I think this line, "Make up your mind what you are arguing about Dennis, I can't engage with something as slippery as your high horsepower keyboard circuit racer trickery." just tells me you don't know who the enemy is, or don't want to face it. If what I am saying can easily be dismissed, you'd just dismiss it. But, irritatingly, you can't dismiss it. You know what I'm saying about the political theater being a facade concealing the shadow government is correct.


1.) The "duopoly" is a mobster cabal, the front organization for the people that actually run the USA, INC. from behind the curtain (some call the "deep state" or "shadow government.") [Maybe instead of "deep state", I should have used the word, "Untouchables", as in the 1960's TV portrayal. These are the bad guys, norman. This is the swamp. They are psychopathic and genocidal and have insatiable greed. They are simultaneously playing the board games 'Monopoly' and 'Risk", using planet Earth for their games - and they are winning (or should I point out that the rest of us that are not their allies or henchmen are losing.) Trump won't touch one of them, not one, not ever. He is tied to them and subservient to them.]


2.) The people that actually run the USA, INC. (and much of the world) are not "democrats" and "republicans", regardless if their wikipedia page says so - they are a cabal of greed-based, insatiably-power-hungry mobsters.


3.) The two clubs (d and r) within the visible cabal (duopoly) use whichever handle is most conducive to them getting into power and remaining in power. [These are the bad guy's public lackeys. They were hired to protect the interests of the bad guys they serve. They are bad guys too, but they don't really run the big show - they protect and defend the ones that do. They pretend - quite poorly - to represent citizens. They squabble a bit on issues the Untouchables don't care about, heightening the illusion of two distinct political ideologies. You know the names of these creeps, these monsters. They are guardians of and mouthpieces for the real, untouchable, swamp creatures. Trump might just spank a handful of them, and someone will shoot off fireworks and celebrate "the draining of the swamp" because they too don't even know what the swamp is or what the problems are.]



4.) And, dear god and Orwell, please stop calling the democrats "left", unless you mean "left hand of the duopoly." There is nothing ideologically "leftist" about democrats.

[You're not the only one, I'm just flagging another incorrect use of the word "left", with your attempt to portray the democrat part of the duopoly as "the left." The democrats used to talk centrist but have morphed into talking right - with a head fake - but they actually are "right" in policy; republicans talk "right, to far right" and are actually "right, to far right" in policy.

THE LEFT is not represented in the duopoly. There are a lot of subgroups of people and ideologies that are also not represented in the duopoly, it's not just the "left" that is left out.

When you are talking about the democrats, name them. Don't substitute the word "left" or any other word that feeds the illusion that they are "the left." You'll know when someone or some group is actually "the left" when they are adamantly pro-peace, anti-war, anti-war economy, anti-security state, anti-police state, anti-corporatist, anti-bankster, and pro-ecology/anti-ecocidal. Do you see why someone who is a member of "the left" doesn't want to pretend that the democrat half of the duopoly is any of those things?

I'm not trying to be tricky - I'm talking in plain English. I have interjected thoughts in this meandering thread as it has meandered. If you want to stay on topic, we could talk about "q" saying the magic phrase "regime change" for Iran, seamlessly melding with the agenda of netanyahu, zionist israel, donald trump, AND the deep state/shadow government. But the last time I brought that up, the subject got changed.

[onawah]

Nothing needs to be added to that, Dennis, but perhaps it could be summed up with a quotation widely attributed to Albert Einstein, who certainly witnessed a lot of insanity in his time: " “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results”.

[RunningDeer]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters&p=1246019&viewfull=1#post1246019


Actually, after I posted that, another Avalon member sent me a suggestion who could pop up on the left:

https://vgy.me/awKpo3.jpg

===

[ Mod-edit: Spoiler alert: Thanks to Google image search, I realize that the above is Tulsi Gabbard (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/10/tulsi-gabbard-how-a-progressive-rising-star-is-a-paradox-for-the-left), representative to the US Congress from Hawaii, and member of Democratic party. - Paul. ]

Tulsi Gabbard was on the Joe Rogan Show a week ago. Rather than add 9+ videos, I’ll leave the link to them (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+rogan+tulsi+gabbard). (they go on beyond the first page)

[Jayke]

On the subject of who/what is Q, I recently saw a series of remote viewings by Edward Riordan on this subject. Having searched his name, he only appears in one post on Avalon from 2014. The links are below. Basically, Riordan has no idea who Q is and doesn't follow his postings, he's just doing the remote viewing. His viewings show a lot of strangeness, a very clean and high tech area, a group of people who sometimes disagree with each other, some sort of biological robot, an overarching agenda for a new world/awakening in the 2020s - not benevolent, more like a breakaway civilisation. Very powerful technology. Not sure what to make of this but it is interesting. Riordan is just reporting and trying to make sense of his results. He seems to be technically good at RV so there may be something there. His channel is at https://www.youtube.com/user/erviewer

The Q related posts start at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN4SmKNwA44
and go through to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8N3L4xwawE

Great find Cognitive Dissident. One of my more speculative suspicions about why the name ‘Q’ was chosen, is because, if it is a form of AI running the operation, it might be a more advanced version of the Q-32 computer (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/FSQ-32) used by ARPA in the 1960’s.


http://ai.stanford.edu/~nilsson/OnlinePubs-Nils/General%20Essays/AIMag05-01-004.pdf


While awaiting funding for our robot work, we arranged telephone access to the Q-32 computer at the System De- velopment Corporation in Santa Monica. Bert supervised my initial attempts at LISP programming on this computer, and together we developed a rather elaborate robot simula- tion program called REX One of Tom Cover’s doctoral can- didates at Stanford, Cordell Green, became interested in Bert’s thesis work on semantic information retrieval; Cor- dell came to SRI one summer to work under Bert. Cordell had read about John Alan Robinson’s “resolution principle” for automatic theorem proving and decided to apply it’ in a question-answering system [QAl] for the Q-32.

There is a societal reset—or mass awakening and transformation—due in the decade between 2020-2030 according to astrologers who track ‘The Music of the Spheres’.

https://www.lunarplanner.com/2020/index.html

A sufficiently advanced AI would be able to sync up with the natural beats and rhythms of the cosmos at that time to guide the process to whatever end they have envisioned. A scary prospect if it’s not the good guys running the show behind the scenes.

[Ratszinger]

Something disconcerting about a herd of animals being rounded up into one place and all following along blindly don't you think? Voat is growing in leaps and bounds now at the direction of one word by Q and off the herd goes. Is this place going to be run like GA on Reddit because if so it means the first sign of question or concern or suspicion out you go!? If so it's really not open discussion but closed thought only for believers. Also it seems most are blind to the fact that we use 'the man's' system even here at PA to communicate because he lets us communicate using it! Its their internet and they can apparently shut it off or on at will. If they wanted to shut this Q thing down they could do it so the powers must want it to remain for some reason. I tell myself this daily to really not forget all this is just a rich man's trick so with that little voice I remind myself don't get sucked in by this ploy cause that is for the suckers, sucked right in like a herd of cows at the processing plant!

[Joe from the Carolinas]

I wanted to share my thoughts regarding the history of Q’s evolution in terms of talking about ufos, inspired by a discrepancy identified by dark journalist. I start at the first two posts and expand to a meta-view. I also reference CG and DW, Jimmy, and Sather in relation to their Klingon-like behavior in reference to Q. I figured this thread would be the best location to share:


at_dfTpaRpY

For reference our closest star is approximately 92 million miles / 149 million km away ( this comes up as Q seems to connect it with whether ufos are a diversion. If Qs goal is to drain the swamp, I think ufos would be a major diversion.

I spoke with Kyle Kemper, esq. and FOIA officer at DOE the day I filmed this video.

[Cognitive Dissident]

On the subject of who/what is Q, I recently saw a series of remote viewings by Edward Riordan on this subject. Having searched his name, he only appears in one post on Avalon from 2014. The links are below. Basically, Riordan has no idea who Q is and doesn't follow his postings, he's just doing the remote viewing. His viewings show a lot of strangeness, a very clean and high tech area, a group of people who sometimes disagree with each other, some sort of biological robot, an overarching agenda for a new world/awakening in the 2020s - not benevolent, more like a breakaway civilisation. Very powerful technology. Not sure what to make of this but it is interesting. Riordan is just reporting and trying to make sense of his results. He seems to be technically good at RV so there may be something there. His channel is at https://www.youtube.com/user/erviewer

The Q related posts start at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN4SmKNwA44
and go through to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8N3L4xwawE

Great find Cognitive Dissident. One of my more speculative suspicions about why the name ‘Q’ was chosen, is because, if it is a form of AI running the operation, it might be a more advanced version of the Q-32 computer (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/FSQ-32) used by ARPA in the 1960’s.


http://ai.stanford.edu/~nilsson/OnlinePubs-Nils/General%20Essays/AIMag05-01-004.pdf


While awaiting funding for our robot work, we arranged telephone access to the Q-32 computer at the System De- velopment Corporation in Santa Monica. Bert supervised my initial attempts at LISP programming on this computer, and together we developed a rather elaborate robot simula- tion program called REX One of Tom Cover’s doctoral can- didates at Stanford, Cordell Green, became interested in Bert’s thesis work on semantic information retrieval; Cor- dell came to SRI one summer to work under Bert. Cordell had read about John Alan Robinson’s “resolution principle” for automatic theorem proving and decided to apply it’ in a question-answering system [QAl] for the Q-32.

There is a societal reset—or mass awakening and transformation—due in the decade between 2020-2030 according to astrologers who track ‘The Music of the Spheres’.

https://www.lunarplanner.com/2020/index.html

A sufficiently advanced AI would be able to sync up with the natural beats and rhythms of the cosmos at that time to guide the process to whatever end they have envisioned. A scary prospect if it’s not the good guys running the show behind the scenes.

Thanks Jayke. About the timing, not sure if you are watching the Dark Journalist X series (well worth watching, very interesting), he keeps repeating that Steiner said that there would be another opportunity for global awakening 100 years after the last failure (he saw World War I as a humanity failure) - in other words from 2018 and he gives this as lasting to 2038.

On the astrology it's all related, probably worth a separate thread, will check out this link, thanks.

[RunningDeer]

I wanted to share my thoughts regarding the history of Q’s evolution in terms of talking about ufos, inspired by a discrepancy identified by dark journalist. I start at the first two posts and expand to a meta-view. I also reference CG and DW, Jimmy, and Sather in relation to their Klingon-like behavior in reference to Q. I figured this thread would be the best location to share:


at_dfTpaRpY

For reference our closest star is approximately 92 million miles / 149 million km away ( this comes up as Q seems to connect it with whether ufos are a diversion. If Qs goal is to drain the swamp, I think ufos would be a major diversion.

I spoke with Kyle Kemper, esq. and FOIA officer at DOE the day I filmed this video.



Joe from the Carolinas: Now I'm not sure if Jordan Sather was associated with GaiaTV or not but I sure as heck saw him speaking on a lot of their events that all these people speak together. So what's the next step for these people?



https://i.imgur.com/F5VZkI8.gif


You’ll find on Jordan’s site the graphics and links to the Gaia site. And as part of their timely marketing ploy, both Corey’s kids, plugged secret space program and QANON in several of the vid titles. It was the same day Corey promoted their series/movie of the same name (and web address) on the Jimmy Church Show. Jordan along with others are involved in the webcasts and movie. On that second website, there’s also a Gaia graphic link.

From the website:



“…features some the most prominent and prolific authors, researchers, whistle-blowers and disseminators in the movement for Truth and Full Disclosure. This includes but is not limited to Corey Goode, Emery Smith, William Tompkins, David Adair, Laura Eisenhower, Niara Isley, Clifford Mahooty and many more.”

Note: I intentionally left off all links to their material.

[RunningDeer]

On the subject of who/what is Q, I recently saw a series of remote viewings by Edward Riordan on this subject.
Here's links to all 7 of the videos in this series. These videos were all posted between Sept 15 and 20 of this year, 2018 (just in the last week). They are videos of Remote Viewing (RV) sessions that he conducted between July 15-25 2018.
Remote Viewing: I'm Posting The Q anon Sessions. The Hands Behind the Hand? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN4SmKNwA44)
Remote Viewing: The Q anon Sessions 3 and 4, Clandestine Meetings? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCnQZWY_jOc)
Remote Viewing: The Qanon Sessions #5 Pt. 1, The Phantom (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ8_mIiHpaw)
Remote Viewing: Q Anon Session 5 Pt 2. The Flash (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gjLL-svjy0)
Remote Viewing: The Q anon Session 6. The Event Horizon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxIutZCmFkw)
Remote Viewing: The Q Anon Session 7 Pt. 1 Machine Learning (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5aHPUSoMnY)
Remote Viewing: The Q anon Sessions, 7 Pt 2. The Fringe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8N3L4xwawE)
I don't usually have much interest in RV results, but I am finding Riordan's opening comments interesting. He's finding Q to be something way bigger than just some political back and forth involving President Trump ... way bigger, something involving high tech, secret facilities and experiments, global, hidden Elites in what is perhaps a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF), nano-biology, massive world changing event or broadcast, world wide controlling people's emotions, directed energy, teleportation, world wide control grid (satellite, 5G, ?), incredible new technology, some living forever, and other more exotic stuff.

UPDATES:

For those with time constraints, Edward Riordan’s format is he summarizes the session in the first 9-10 minutes and then shows his process in real time.
I’ve watched about half of them and couldn’t help wonder if Omni could related to some of this material.
In session 7, he explains that the session got strange. And something that never happened before was his camera suddenly stopped working (unbeknownst to him) in a key section. It wasn't the battery. The camera was plugged in.



https://i.imgur.com/F5VZkI8.gif

The last of the series:




I have the final session of the Q project here. This was July 29th, @ 9:15 am. We had decided the movements would be to look at the satellite and machine learning. Explore those things. This was the final session. It gets pretty crazy. It’s probably the craziest one. After this I was done. I couldn’t take anymore.


Remote Viewing Qanon: Final Session! Artificial Intelligence
y3kVr2GdTN8

Edward Riordan YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/user/erviewer/videos?disable_polymer=1)
Published on Sep 22, 2018

[norman]

Those remote viewing videos may be worth a thread of their own.


I'd feel a bit better and more sure about it if I knew who the remote viewer was. I wish it was Dick Allgire.

[Dane]

This person is not in structure - I would not trust the data.

[RunningDeer]

Those remote viewing videos may be worth a thread of their own.


I'd feel a bit better and more sure about it if I knew who the remote viewer was. I wish it was Dick Allgire.

Edward Riordan isn’t claiming that his sessions are correct but wants to put them out there (rather than on his Patreon account). I’ve listened to the first two and jumped to the last one. What intrigued me was this comment from his first video:

@ 4:38 (https://youtu.be/oN4SmKNwA44?t=4m38s) - I'm just gonna put them all up. One of them I was getting into some super high tech stuff and when I was getting into some into the depth of it, when I went back and loaded the the film, the part that was really in-depth, that part of the video was gone. Don't know why. Very strange. I have the paper session we’ll look at the PDF.


Remote Viewing: I'm Posting The Q anon Sessions. The Hands Behind the Hand?
oN4SmKNwA44

[Baby Steps]

For the awakeners:


It appears to be a concoction of Military intelligence and AI, with the objective to control the narrative- anybody who is in the process of awakening will at least feel uncomfortable with the idea that a mysterious group within a powerful government is actually driving this. Good awakenings are unlikely to be provided by those holding POWER over us

On the other side of the argument is that clearly at its best, Q is assisting us to build our cases against the tyrants. In order to take them down. Good pointers have been given to us, and the awakening narrative is being built by researchers and citizen journalists.

How, then to reconcile these two conflicting positions? My take is that our establishment has calculated that wikileaks and other leaks have the power to bring them down. They therefore decided to try to hijack and control the awakening in order to preserve THEIR OWN POWER POSITION. This will entail TPTB throwing some of the nastiest tyrants under the bus. As we see this happen (and applaud it) we could make the mistake of thinking Q is good or acting in our interests. Better to remain suspicious, but grateful for progress which is coming. Another indicator that all is not right is that we talk about grabbing the pop corn (sitting it out) rather than taking personal and collective action to achieve change. Nevertheless some good stuff happening. Awareness is the key.

[Noelle]

Those remote viewing videos may be worth a thread of their own.


I'd feel a bit better and more sure about it if I knew who the remote viewer was. I wish it was Dick Allgire.

I agree, Norman. :thumbsup:

Though I can't recall what drew me into the Q phenomenon, I've stayed engaged in it for various reasons. One reason is to study it for clues on the bigger picture. I've done some light research on "The Storm" and other weather-related names entering the stage (i.e., Michael Bolton, James Clapper, Emmet Flood, Nikki Haley, Bill Shine, Peter Strzok [pronounced STRUCK], Chris Wray, Stormy Daniels), which I have shared on the main Q thread. This has been whispering "programmed reality" to me.

[Helene West]

One of my questions about Q is - 'Does Q do enough to break free of the mindset of left/right, liberal/conservative, etc?'

In the past the international ruling class came by boats and conquered physically other lands and people. The conquest of the people of the western world is just as real but a different style, technocratic, less physicality needed. Harder for john and jane doe to see the takeover. Is Q doing enough to help john doe see this?

All public info access roads must lead to obfuscation that there is a CLASS of people who have been conducting The Art of War for well over a century against the very citizens that they had previously used for centuries to help them conquer other lands. The imperialism hasn't stopped, we westerners were just last on the list.

The right/left, dem/repub, lib/conserv must prevail to protect the rulers, a tiny minority. Even on Fox, which the globalists allow more truth to be told than the other stations, Hannity et al, pounds the notion of Lib/Conserv every night. There still is no Class consciousness just divide amongst the citizenry.

Q's asking of questions instead of just preaching ideology at us can be a mental technique to snap out of a mndset and was one of the aspects that was initially novel and intrigued me but is it working to serve in breaking free of the two-sided divide Prison or has it helped keep it going? Right/left is obsolete, it's globalists vs citizens, is Q doing enough for John & Jane with their tee shirts to see that?

[Jayke]

Thanks Jayke. About the timing, not sure if you are watching the Dark Journalist X series (well worth watching, very interesting), he keeps repeating that Steiner said that there would be another opportunity for global awakening 100 years after the last failure (he saw World War I as a humanity failure) - in other words from 2018 and he gives this as lasting to 2038.

On the astrology it's all related, probably worth a separate thread, will check out this link, thanks.

Holy sh*t! I’m an hour into Dark Journalists latest presentation, and he’s showing the CERN Tarot cards (https://youtu.be/JAJH3xZvBRI). Every one of these cards is a goldmine...here’s a few that might actually support the Q as AI hypothesis (as outlandishly on the edge of speculation as I first imagined it to be), although it’s worth looking through the rest of them as well. I’m not saying Q is definitely an AI, but I’ll be filing this potential hypothesis under the ‘something more sinister’ aspect of the thread title. :unsure:

http://www.suzannetreister.net/HEXEN2/TAROT_COL/HEXEN_2_TAROT.html


http://www.suzannetreister.net/HEXEN2/TAROT_COL/TAROT_Temp-Arpanet.jpg

http://www.suzannetreister.net/HEXEN2/TAROT_COL/TAROT_Strength-NetwRevs.jpg

http://www.suzannetreister.net/HEXEN2/TAROT_COL/TAROT_Tower-NSATIA.jpg

http://www.suzannetreister.net/HEXEN2/TAROT_COL/TAROT_Star-Quantum.jpg

http://www.suzannetreister.net/HEXEN2/TAROT_COL/TAROT_Sun-AnarchoP-PLA.jpg

[Foxie Loxie]

Let's hope so, Helene! My prayer is that The Rule of Law can be restored, which means corrupt judges have to be OUTED!! :bigsmile:

[Valerie Villars]

Jake, I hate to be such a dummy, but what are Cern tarot cards? Who made them? Who uses them?

Thanks.

[RunningDeer]

Holy sh*t! I’m an hour into Dark Journalists latest presentation, and he’s showing the CERN Tarot cards (https://youtu.be/JAJH3xZvBRI). Every one of these cards is a goldmine...here’s a few that might actually support the Q as AI hypothesis (as outlandishly on the edge of speculation as I first imagined it to be), although it’s worth looking through the rest of them as well. I’m not saying Q is definitely an AI, but I’ll be filing this potential hypothesis under the ‘something more sinister’ aspect of the thread title. :unsure:

http://www.suzannetreister.net/HEXEN2/TAROT_COL/HEXEN_2_TAROT.html

I haven’t watch the Dark Journalist’s vid. Maybe he covered it there. I was curious when these cards came out. (bold print is mine)


Characteristics Hexen 2.0 Tarot - Hexham 2.0 Tarot (Tarot Witch 2.0 Tarot conspiracy theories)
Author:  Suzanne Treister , a Bang by Lars Larsen Site deck 
Artist: Suzanne Treister
Publisher:  Black Dog Publishing
Production:  United States
Contents: 78 cards c instruction in English. language
cards Language:  English
Picture Size: 15.0 x 9.5 cm
Year:  2012
ISBN:  978 1 907317 65 1
Tradition: Mixed
Minor Arcana: illustration
suits: wands, cups, swords and pentacles
yard Cards: Page, Knight, Queen, King
Numbering: Jester 0 Power 11 8 Justice
Category:  Science; modern

[site (http://www.rozamira-tarot.ru/tarot/h/xeksen-2-0-taro-taro-vedm-2-0-taro-teorii-zagovorov-hexen-2-0-tarot.html)]

" Taro conspiracy theories » ( Hexen 2.0 We do Tarot ) is made in the style of engravings and displays the arcana of the alchemical way. The deck concentrated all the ideas and theories of the 20th and 21st century, you will find in it due to computerization and the Internet history, cybernetics and counterculture, science fiction and scientific predictions about the future, government and military research programs, social engineering and social management ideas .

This deck is the complete opposite of the arcane "Luna". It will definitely give you a way out of any situation. Her Egregore set that would distinguish you from the social structures, to elevate and give strength so you could have the right to do everything a secret revealed. Ruling the suit of Swords in it are known for their candor, power to cut off too much, gets rid of illusions that give the mind and the power; so be prepared to receive the truth of the most vulnerable places, it is always sober and you will make to move.

In magic, it can be useful for those who want to change their karmic indicators and master their own destiny, it is of little use for domestic solutions problematic. Engage in mystical practice with "Tarot conspiracy theories" - a pleasure! This is not a Neptunian miditatsii is mysticism of a new era, it will open doors for you, to illuminate the dark corners of your mind, teach cut emotions, most importantly, to fit all that out!



Overview Hexen 2.0 Tarot - Hexham 2.0 Tarot (Tarot Witch 2.0 Tarot conspiracy theories)

Interesting and unusual pack for geeks and other science fans. It is unclear where does the witch, but that's exactly the Tarot. For lovers of the Tarot of Physics and Science Tarot. (Spinners Shop)


**********************************************


The deck is made in the style of medieval alchemical treatise, but tells the history of science, 20 - 21 centuries, in particular on the development of cybernetics and computer science. Some cards densely scribbled in tiny handwriting, and all the words on the cards very much.

Suitable for a narrow circle of enthusiasts who believe in global conspiracy idea of total konstrolya, LSD, and lucid dreams; To understand this masterpiece taro-creation, you need to know who the Margaret Mead, Timothy Leary and Gregory Bateson. (taro store Salon)

Whole deck seen here (http://www.rozamira-tarot.ru/galeria/albom-hexen-2-0-tarot-by-suzanne-treister-xeksen-2-0-taro.html). (too)

[Jayke]

Jake, I hate to be such a dummy, but what are Cern tarot cards? Who made them? Who uses them?

Thanks.

I hadn’t heard of them either. Dark Journalist explains where they originate in his latest presentation. They were made for people who work at the CERN Hadron Collider apparently. I’ve not finished watching the whole thing yet, so not sure if he thinks there’s any white hats vs black hats behind the creation of the cards. I’ll watch the rest and find out what his overall hypothesis is.

JAJH3xZvBRI

[Deux Corbeaux]

Jake, I hate to be such a dummy, but what are Cern tarot cards? Who made them? Who uses them?

Thanks.

Here are the tarot cards.

https://www.suzannetreister.net/HEXEN2/TAROT_COL/HEXEN_2_TAROT.html

And here some background info.

https://christianjournal.net/turning-point/arts-at-cern-gives-collide-award-to-creator-of-tarot-cards-hexen-2-0/

OOPS

See was posted just before me LOL

[Valerie Villars]

Thanks Running Deer and Jayke.

I am living in a mad world when particle collider scientists are playing around with tarot cards. This just gets crazier and crazier.

[waves]

.....our establishment has calculated that wikileaks and other leaks have the power to bring them down. They therefore decided to try to hijack and control the awakening.....

I think this is a brilliant point. I suspect that the possibly initially benevolent low-key efforts that had no big expectations will ultimately unravel to be revealed as a hijacked movement after the momentum was noticed.

Of course the enemy is not just sitting back with an attitude of darn it, they're gaining on us.

Of course they are very present somehow in this game right now with the money to do whatever they want.

How much has Q included pointed questions about the pervasive either political or esoterica Mossad/Jewish/Zionist factors in the swamp?

I think people deleriously thrilled thinking they have an organized movement to unite them are seriously ignoring looking for infiltration and ignoring the level of mind control sophistication, media-manipulation power and patience their extremely vicious enemy has.

[yankee451]

Whatever you want to call the group of people that engineered and executed and covered-up 9/11 ("deep state", or whatever), none were ever tried, convicted, and hung (or imprisoned. ) ALL of them slithered back into their desk chairs on the payroll of the USA, INC. They are still in power. It is still EXTREMELY important to them that 9/11 get whitewashed and memory-holed. We may not know who "q" is, but we know who "q's" bosses are.

I don't know who or what QAnon is, but I agree with Dennis (and Bill), that there are certain litmus tests that expose those among us who are being disingenuous. The Pentagon "plane" question is one such litmus test, but I would argue the same about the whole official story.

[Ascension]

esoterica




Sorry for the drastic snip but I wanted to focus on that one word. Hardly anyone discusses the magic part of the control system, even though the symbols are everywhere.

[ThePythonicCow]

http://www.suzannetreister.net/HEXEN2/TAROT_COL/TAROT_Sun-AnarchoP-PLA.jpg
My hunch is that those last words, on that last card, provide major insight into where those who control this technology intend to take us:


Abolition of the
producer-consumer
based society

Geographic, social,
cultural, imaginal
autonomous zones now

The complete
dissolution of
abstract power

The values and goals
of those who produce and
control technology are
always embedded
within it.
In other words, the values and goals of those who produce and control this are technological.

Someone has lost touch with their soul.

[norman]

Whatever you want to call the group of people that engineered and executed and covered-up 9/11 ("deep state", or whatever), none were ever tried, convicted, and hung (or imprisoned. ) ALL of them slithered back into their desk chairs on the payroll of the USA, INC. They are still in power. It is still EXTREMELY important to them that 9/11 get whitewashed and memory-holed. We may not know who "q" is, but we know who "q's" bosses are.

I don't know who or what QAnon is, but I agree with Dennis (and Bill), that there are certain litmus tests that expose those among us who are being disingenuous. The Pentagon "plane" question is one such litmus test, but I would argue the same about the whole official story.


I think I know where you are coming from but in a hostile war zone we cannot indulge in abstracting the literal. We are up against an intelligent adversary. War rules apply. This thing is very much ongoing and being run, at least by the other side, by the seat of the pants.


I'm, of course, assuming, with this, that Q is ok and on our side.


Actually, it could be true that some sort of plane hit the Pentagon. I'm pretty damn sure it wasn't a great big boeing tho'.

[Ratszinger]

Whatever you want to call the group of people that engineered and executed and covered-up 9/11 ("deep state", or whatever), none were ever tried, convicted, and hung (or imprisoned. ) ALL of them slithered back into their desk chairs on the payroll of the USA, INC. They are still in power. It is still EXTREMELY important to them that 9/11 get whitewashed and memory-holed. We may not know who "q" is, but we know who "q's" bosses are.

I don't know who or what QAnon is, but I agree with Dennis (and Bill), that there are certain litmus tests that expose those among us who are being disingenuous. The Pentagon "plane" question is one such litmus test, but I would argue the same about the whole official story.


I think I know where you are coming from but in a hostile war zone we cannot indulge in abstracting the literal. We are up against an intelligent adversary. War rules apply. This thing is very much ongoing and being run, at least by the other side, by the seat of the pants.


I'm, of course, assuming, with this, that Q is ok and on our side.


Actually, it could be true that some sort of plane hit the Pentagon. I'm pretty damn sure it wasn't a great big boeing tho'.

To me the unspoken paradox is this! What does Q always tell us to do? "Enjoy the show" as if that is all we need do, perhaps all we can do even if we wanted to do more. So, what does Q need with an army of sheeple going out in force wherever they are directed if it's already won, and all we need do is enjoy the show? Why the need for the audience at all? On the one hand it's a done deal, the war is already won and patriots are in total control not to worry, yet 'the world is watching' seems to matter for some reason?

In the past the reason for the audience was clear. It was obvious. It was money! Today Q apparently warned 'be careful who you follow' correct? So it seems Q distanced the movement from money! Is it to gain trust? No. They have that. I think it's because Q is indeed a military op of intelligence and they don't need money. Who else could shun it as they have? All the past folks we have had threads on had $ in common! The Q pardox is if the battle is already won why does it matter if the world watches?

[norman]

That's one of the easier answers, as I see it.


The operation can only progress as far as the public, or a significant proportion of it, can comprehend it.


The MSM won't get the word out about what's happening. People would be hopelessly confused and counter the whole thing by not understanding it. A situation could easily arise where the good guys got it all spun around on them and got locked up for what appears to the public and crooked media as some kind of mutiny/coup.

[Ratszinger]

That's one of the easier answers, as I see it.


The operation can only progress as far as the public, or a significant proportion of it, can comprehend it.


The MSM won't get the word out about what's happening. People would be hopelessly confused and counter the whole thing by not understanding it. A situation could easily arise where the good guys got it all spun around on them and got locked up for what appears to the public and crooked media as some kind of mutiny/coup.

Yeah but if that is the case then the war is hardly won at all! So that must be false and misleading to suggest it's just show. So again see, on the one had Q says it's just a show, but on the other, "this is not a game". It's a study in contrast. I don't see how it can be both. Show says script, plan says laid out operation years in advance. Hardly a game but hardly a show either. I hate to be one that people say oh shut up and I know it irritates some because its another "doubting Thomas" but things don't add up to me.

[norman]

Our intelligent adversary has been running an event driven agenda for a very long time. By that I mean certain things have to click into place before the following stage is entered, rather than running it to a calendar.


If the Q/Trump thing is real, I imagine that it would be run exactly like that event driven agenda. I hope that when certain stages are reached, there are effective locks in place that assure the next stage after that can be completed without a hitch.


I think a couple of big ones are busting the MSM and Silicon Valley, but doing it in a way that doesn't make the bankrupcy of America go too far off track and make it un salvagable.

[Noelle]

To me the unspoken paradox is this! What does Q always tell us to do? "Enjoy the show" as if that is all we need do, perhaps all we can do even if we wanted to do more. So, what does Q need with an army of sheeple going out in force wherever they are directed if it's already won and all we need do is enjoy the show?

Sorry. I really have tried to stay off this thread. I promise, I won't post here again (unless, of course, you want me here ;)). I just want to point out that QAnon has said "Enjoy the show" in many drops, though I never took it to mean "Do nothing. Everything will be great." Many of the drops call on people to take action, like this recent message: "Fight, fight, fight. Demand public disclosures. Be loud, be heard." Remember the #ReleaseTheMemo push? Q helped promote that.

[ThePythonicCow]

A (slightly) different perspective on Q just crossed my mind.

I realize that I am using Q rather like a news source, to track some of the current events, especially regarding the US government and Trump, that are of interest to me.

Various people trust various news sources. Some trust the UK Guardian, some trust the New York Times, some trust CNN, some trust Alex Jones, some trust Project Avalon, and recently, some trust Q.

Some of these news sources has "tag lines", such as "All the news that's fit to print" (NYTimes), "The Most Trusted Name in News" (CNN), or "Chonicles of the Human Awakening ... Where Science and Spirituality Meet" (Avalon).

The best known of Q's taglines is "Where We Go One We Go All !" (WWGOWGA!).

I don't judge news sources much by their tag lines. I judge them by whether I come away better (as best as I can judge) informed on the topics of interest to me, and whether I find them easy for my mind to read or listen to. For example, I tend to prefer older men with rich baritone voices and fairly high IQ's (for news ... I have other preferences for other matters.) So I have continued to listen frequently to Clif High, long after my rational brain had decided that his reliability on topics of importance to me was lower than I would normally tolerate. In short: my preferences for news sources are ever shifting and sometimes not very rational.

Q is more of an interactive, gamed, news source, rather than a passive listen, read, and remember what you're told news source. Actually, so is Avalon in that regard, in a very different style.

It does not bother me that I don't have a face, voice, name, or curriculum vitae to associate with Q. Seldom (except when I wrote for my school newspaper, on a couple of small web forums that I used to frequent, and here on Avalon) have I known who was really "pulling the strings" behind the news source(s) I trusted at the time. Rather I have to eventually put the pieces together for myself, and decide which news source(s) are worth listening to today. I currently have upwards of 50 or 100 (depending on how you count) news sources that I scan daily. CNN long ago fell off that list, and Alex Jones fell off in more recent years. Most likely Q will also fall off my list some year, if he keeps this up that long.

I always expect some proportion of the news reported to be lies, confusion, distraction or propaganda, and some proportion of what I really would have wanted reported to be buried, unreported. Sometimes these failings are deliberate, sometimes the usual human failings of imperfect knowledge, comprehension and articulation. Such is life.

Q is not a researcher; some of those following Q's drops are researchers and I benefit from and endeavor in my small way to contribute to the "open source intelligence" (Robert David Steele's term) that is being built up around Q's drops.

Q is not a whistleblower or insider getting out secret knowledge to the press, at least not in the classical sense. We don't know if Q is a he, she, it, or they, and we may never know.

Probably all news sources, from the Bible or Koran onward, become corrupted by deep state powers, if they become sufficiently influential, for a long enough time. Fortunately, it seems that Project Avalon is not at serious risk of becoming too big anytime soon <grin>.

Q sometimes seems to me to be more of a psy-op, which would normally be a huge red flag enough to get a bull to charge right through a thick concrete wall. My current take is that Q is part of a counter-intelligence psy-op, engaged in taking down part of the deep state, mostly the Rockefeller family sponsored crime syndicates such as the Bushes and Clintons and their corrupt minions, and some associated criminal governments imposed on foreign nations such as Saudi Arabia and North Korea (and quite a few others.)

Let us do what we can to see that what remains, and what replaces the fallen, is as good as we're able to make it.

[onawah]

Sources of info that I respect:
1. JOSEPH FARRELL: Q ANON: DEEP STATE WIZARD OF ? DARK JOURNALIST
2.DarkJournalist
Published on Jan 8, 2018
"Deep State Trial Balloon/Marketing Op Aimed at Alternative Media?
In this fascinating episode Dark Journalist Daniel Liszt welcomes back Oxford Scholar Dr. Joseph P. Farrell the author of the popular Giza Death Star Book Series. Farrell delves deeply into the online group posts of Q Anon and its rapid spread through the Alternative Media under the guise of an anonymous insider. Farrell Poses the question: Is the Q Anon material just the latest wave of sophisticated disinformation that 3. Catherine Austin Fitts calls "Hope Porn"?

Disinformation Campaign
Farrell sees a sophisticated disinformation campaign aimed at the independent research community to create an Imitation Wikileaks style vehicle that will act as an All-knowing Oracle Insider for a variety of important Geopolitical situations.

It is apparently designed to propagate the promise of Cabal Arrests and Elites being tried at Gitmo as a kind of Soma to pacify the growing online audience that are raising questions about the actions of the Deep State on a global scale!
Don't miss this exciting, informative and alarming Dark Journalist episode!"
3e_e5WI_mjg

The absence of logic The Matrix Revealed: Why logic disappeared
(It's not just happening in schools...psyops are designed to confuse, obfuscate and turn off logical thinking. "That’s how mind-programming is done—by pouring assumptions into the student.
Once he begins to look at them, study them, consider them, assess them, he is SEPARATE FROM THEM.")
Aug3
4.by Jon Rappoport
https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2018/08/03/revealed-why-logic-disappeared/
"Over the past year, I’ve been in communication with several teachers who are telling me about the descent into more social programming in school classrooms.

From so-called environmental agendas, to discussions about gender orientation and choice of gender identity, to sex education, to teaching about “liberalism,” the indoctrination is getting thicker and deeper.

This whole mind-engineering approach would suffer a devastating blow if logic were introduced into the curriculum, particularly at an early age.

One prime factor becomes clear the moment a student explores logic as a formal subject. That factor is THE PREMISE.

Deductive arguments begin from premises, also known as assumptions or givens.

Although logic focuses on the process of reasoning launched from the premises, there is no way to avoid looking at these basic assumptions, once the student learns how to find them.

“Is this premise true?” “Does it make sense?”

And then all bets are off, because social programming is short on reasoning and long on givens.

That’s how mind-programming is done—by pouring assumptions into the student.

Once he begins to look at them, study them, consider them, assess them, he is SEPARATE FROM THEM.

He can then gauge their truth or falsity.

He can decide whether they’re grounded in fact, or are merely arbitrary notions designed to forward an ideology.

At that point, the roof caves in on the programmers.

This is one reason I designed a basic introductory logic course for high-school students and included it in my collection, The Matrix Revealed.

Students should have the opportunity to experience analyzing passages of text. They should learn what that process does for them, how it wakes them up and eventually makes them independent.

Educators are aware that treading on the path of logic endangers what they are covertly putting into students’ heads.

That’s why logic has disappeared.

That’s why it needs to come back.

Shepherded by parents.

Every home is a civilization."



To me the unspoken paradox is this! What does Q always tell us to do? "Enjoy the show" as if that is all we need do, perhaps all we can do even if we wanted to do more. So, what does Q need with an army of sheeple going out in force wherever they are directed if it's already won, and all we need do is enjoy the show? Why the need for the audience at all? On the one hand it's a done deal, the war is already won and patriots are in total control not to worry, yet 'the world is watching' seems to matter for some reason?

In the past the reason for the audience was clear. It was obvious. It was money! Today Q apparently warned 'be careful who you follow' correct? So it seems Q distanced the movement from money! Is it to gain trust? No. They have that. I think it's because Q is indeed a military op of intelligence and they don't need money. Who else could shun it as they have? All the past folks we have had threads on had $ in common! The Q pardox is if the battle is already won why does it matter if the world watches?

[ThePythonicCow]

To me the unspoken paradox is this! What does Q always tell us to do? "Enjoy the show" as if that is all we need do, perhaps all we can do even if we wanted to do more. So, what does Q need with an army of sheeple ...
To me, that phrase of Q, "Enjoy the show", has a different meaning.

Bear with me a minute, if you may, through a couple twists of logic.

Some of what goes on "up there", in Washington, in the halls of power, is hidden from us. That cannot change anytime soon. There's a major war going on "up there", between some major and well entrenched powers. Secrecy and deception are essential tactics in such wars, as they are presently conducted.

That can be pretty scary. Bad Sh*t going down and we won't find out about it until it's too late, if then.

Fear paralyzes.

Q is addressing that potential paralyzing fear.

For those things you can see or figure out, do your own research and take your own initiatives.

For those things you can't see, except for the ominous sounds coming out from behind the curtain, be not paralyzed by fear, but rather enjoy the show as the curtain is pulled back, as quickly as we can, and some of the swamp is revealed and drained.

[yankee451]

Whatever you want to call the group of people that engineered and executed and covered-up 9/11 ("deep state", or whatever), none were ever tried, convicted, and hung (or imprisoned. ) ALL of them slithered back into their desk chairs on the payroll of the USA, INC. They are still in power. It is still EXTREMELY important to them that 9/11 get whitewashed and memory-holed. We may not know who "q" is, but we know who "q's" bosses are.

I don't know who or what QAnon is, but I agree with Dennis (and Bill), that there are certain litmus tests that expose those among us who are being disingenuous. The Pentagon "plane" question is one such litmus test, but I would argue the same about the whole official story.


I think I know where you are coming from but in a hostile war zone we cannot indulge in abstracting the literal. We are up against an intelligent adversary. War rules apply. This thing is very much ongoing and being run, at least by the other side, by the seat of the pants.


I'm, of course, assuming, with this, that Q is ok and on our side.


Actually, it could be true that some sort of plane hit the Pentagon. I'm pretty damn sure it wasn't a great big boeing tho'.

The photographic evidence is proof enough no planes crashed at any of the 9/11 sites.

[yankee451]

To me the unspoken paradox is this! What does Q always tell us to do? "Enjoy the show" as if that is all we need do, perhaps all we can do even if we wanted to do more. So, what does Q need with an army of sheeple ...
To me, that phrase of Q, "Enjoy the show", has a different meaning.

Bear with me a minute, if you may, through a couple twists of logic.

Some of what goes on "up there", in Washington, in the halls of power, is hidden from us. That cannot change anytime soon. There's a major war going on "up there", between some major and well entrenched powers. Secrecy and deception are essential tactics in such wars, as they are presently conducted.

That can be pretty scary. Bad Sh*t going down and we won't find out about it until it's too late, if then.

Fear paralyzes.

Q is addressing that potential paralyzing fear.

For those things you can see or figure out, do your own research and take your own initiatives.

For those things you can't see, except for the ominous sounds coming out from behind the curtain, be not paralyzed by fear, but rather enjoy the show as the curtain is pulled back, as quickly as we can, and some of the swamp is revealed and drained.

Fear is the key. If "they" can make us fear something, anything, then the mission has been accomplished. Fear of rejection, or of pain, or of loneliness, or of instant death, or of bad breath, or whatever - it doesn't matter what you're afraid of, if you live in fear, they win.

[Cognitive Dissident]

Back to topic....

Here's the final session from Edward Riordan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3kVr2GdTN8

Basically Q is an AI which is trying to undermine the human elite leadership (which is of course highly corrupt) in order to create a new technocratic religion which can solve all problems and lead us to a "promised land" which is actually an illusion because it replaces human individuality.

Quite a profound viewpoint. Hard to be confirmed but worth bearing in mind.

[RunningDeer]

Back to topic....

Here's the final session from Edward Riordan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3kVr2GdTN8

Basically Q is an AI which is trying to undermine the human elite leadership (which is of course highly corrupt) in order to create a new technocratic religion which can solve all problems and lead us to a "promised land" which is actually an illusion because it replaces human individuality.

Quite a profound viewpoint. Hard to be confirmed but worth bearing in mind.

Some other points (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104156-QAnon-An-Opposing-Viewpoint-LARP-Psyop-Cult-or-Something-Even-More-Sinister&p=1249956&viewfull=1#post1249956) I made for those that aren't familiar with the series. I'll include Paul's comments and links again.



Here's links to all 7 of the videos in this series. These videos were all posted between Sept 15 and 20 of this year, 2018 (just in the last week). They are videos of Remote Viewing (RV) sessions that he conducted between July 15-25 2018.
Remote Viewing: I'm Posting The Q anon Sessions. The Hands Behind the Hand? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN4SmKNwA44)
Remote Viewing: The Q anon Sessions 3 and 4, Clandestine Meetings? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCnQZWY_jOc)
Remote Viewing: The Qanon Sessions #5 Pt. 1, The Phantom (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ8_mIiHpaw)
Remote Viewing: Q Anon Session 5 Pt 2. The Flash (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gjLL-svjy0)
Remote Viewing: The Q anon Session 6. The Event Horizon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxIutZCmFkw)
Remote Viewing: The Q Anon Session 7 Pt. 1 Machine Learning (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5aHPUSoMnY)
Remote Viewing: The Q anon Sessions, 7 Pt 2. The Fringe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8N3L4xwawE)
I don't usually have much interest in RV results, but I am finding Riordan's opening comments interesting. He's finding Q to be something way bigger than just some political back and forth involving President Trump ... way bigger, something involving high tech, secret facilities and experiments, global, hidden Elites in what is perhaps a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF), nano-biology, massive world changing event or broadcast, world wide controlling people's emotions, directed energy, teleportation, world wide control grid (satellite, 5G, ?), incredible new technology, some living forever, and other more exotic stuff.

UPDATES:

For those with time constraints, Edward Riordan’s format is he summarizes the session in the first 9-10 minutes and then shows his process in real time.
I’ve watched about half of them and couldn’t help wonder if Omni could related to some of this material. (update: watched all of the summaries)
In session 7, he explains that the session got strange. And something that never happened before was his camera suddenly stopped working (unbeknownst to him) in a key section. It wasn't the battery. The camera was plugged in.
From my other post - What intrigued me was this comment from his first video: I'm just gonna put them all up. One of them I was getting into some super high tech stuff and when I was getting into some into the depth of it, when I went back and loaded the the film, the part that was really in-depth, that part of the video was gone. Don't know why. Very strange. I have the paper session we’ll look at the PDF.



https://i.imgur.com/F5VZkI8.gif

The last of the series:




I have the final session of the Q project here. This was July 29th, @ 9:15 am. We had decided the movements would be to look at the satellite and machine learning. Explore those things. This was the final session. It gets pretty crazy. It’s probably the craziest one. After this I was done. I couldn’t take anymore.


Remote Viewing Qanon: Final Session! Artificial Intelligence
y3kVr2GdTN8

Edward Riordan YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/user/erviewer/videos?disable_polymer=1)
Published on Sep 22, 2018

[Ratszinger]

This is interesting on the last video link. I watched with some interest after he started about the 'SKYNET' as I did my own little 'remote viewing' kinda as a joke a while back well, some time back and then again yesterday and well. I got kinda sorta the same thing. And I'm finding myself shocked at the resemblance of this portrait I did focusing on Q and how much it ended up looking like the person that caught everyone's eye a while back suspected of being JFK Jr. Anyway, this was the one of the sky net and the portrait of a man My sky net was micro bots.

[ichingcarpenter]

I posted this on Bill's thread on LMH/ Bassett interview then thought about it

This might be of interest too on S.Bassett's thoughts


EXCLUSIVE: Why President Donald Trump 'could be about to announce that ALIENS EXIST'

From the English paper the Express: PUBLISHED: 13:34, Thu, May 4, 2017 | UPDATED: 14:05, Thu, May 4, 2017

Snip:

The second event which gives Mr Bassett hope is said to have happened the day after Donald Trump's win.

He said: "I received an encrypted text from someone inside.

"It was not signed, but I kind of know who it is.

"It said, 'there are people inside the Department of Defence who are willing too cooperate if someone reaches down to them, if the secretary of defence reaches down to them’.”


https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird...Research-Group

''encrypted message'' now isn't this before Q first started something? ..... Is this related to the stars group?
I know its old news but wonder if there is a relationship.

[Jayke]

Dark Journalist explains where they originate in his latest presentation. They were made for people who work at the CERN Hadron Collider apparently. I’ve not finished watching the whole thing yet, so not sure if he thinks there’s any white hats vs black hats behind the creation of the cards. I’ll watch the rest and find out what his overall hypothesis is.

JAJH3xZvBRI

I was disappointed 'Dark Journalist' didn't go much deeper into the CERN tarot in his last 2 hours of the presentation. He had a guest on instead. A woman who is an intuitive/psychic type. The scope of this part of the interview was more about bolstering your psychic defences and tuning into your spiritual guidance.

I have gleaned enough from the tarot itself though to fill in some missing pieces of the Q psy-op puzzle, and do a systems theory analysis of the Q movement. I've done a write up of my analysis below, it'll be a long post by my usual standards, so, i'll try and keep it as concise as possible, while still hitting the most important aspects, which means it will be vastly over-generalised as a result, but there's still a lot of research and hard science that goes into it.

~~~~~~~

Systems Theory

Systems Theory is based on 3 core fundamentals...Pattern, Process and Structure...and to understand or predict how a situation is going to unfold, its necessary to understand all 3 components. These 3 fundamentals are like the 3 prongs on Shivas Trishula (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trishula).

Pattern

I'll start way back in ancient history, because, going off the CERN Tarot, it seems to be where our occult overlords have their roots.

The Median Magi of antiquity understood the planetary cycles of conscious evolution in terms of Hyper-Luminal-Geometry. The 3 dimensions of time(the hyper part of hyper-geometry), light (bright vs dark, and all the luminal shades of colour inbetween) and space/location (what most people consider the 3 dimensions of space are actually just 3 geometric vector points within a single dimension of space).

To have an inkling of what’s going to happen next, it requires an understanding of where we currently reside within the pattern of conscious evolution; which is why the mystery traditions focus on astrology, astronomy and 'The Music of the Spheres' within their core teachings. Do the archetypal energies – deriving from celestial influences – create aeons that are light, joyful and breezy? Or do the archons sing a song that's more chaotic, dark, heavy and disparaging? (the median magi considered this a function of how much light was in a particular zone of the universe, hence, they associated archetypes with the luminal dimension. (Ismaili Gnosis - Henry Corbin.PDF (http://www.imagomundi.com.br/espiritualidade/corbin_cyclical_time.pdf)).

Structure i.e. Where we currently reside within the pattern?

Clare Graves - Levels of Human Experience (https://www.amazon.com/Levels-Human-Existence-Clare-Graves/dp/097247420X), is the best system of psychology to understand what the structure looks like. It teaches the organisational psychology of humans in relation to the 7 fundamental archetypes we tend to gravitate too, and form our communities around. To understand the structure in relation to the pattern, we require an accurate understanding of history (which is why the overlords seek to rewrite our history books, it disconnects us from our roots and prevents us from seeing the dynamics they use to manipulate us).

A structural-pattern of human civilisation

The slavs kept some interesting calendar systems, that date back into what we'd consider pre-history:

http://survincity.com/2011/01/slavic-calendar/


Also … Peter, do not just replace the old with a new calendar … he stole from the people of the great heritage of 5,508 years, and ordered the foreigners to write the history of his place, which was not there before …
Now very few people remember that the earlier date of initial letter Annals recorded the ancient language, not the number that introduced by order of Peter …
Prior to the introduction of the new calendar 7208 new year people said of the victory over the ancient Chinese, and the date is always recorded initial letter … it tells us that writing existed long before the Slavs in Solun monks Cyril and Methodius … if it were not for the reform of Peter, the Church would be a fairy tale about "education of illiterate nations" would be long forgotten, like someone's bad joke. No wonder that the Empress Catherine II said: "The Slavs for many thousands of years before Christ, had their letters."

Here is a short list of used Slavs Old Believer, calendar forms:

Relevant chronology 2006-2007.
Summer 7515 from the Creation in the Star Temple
13015 Summer of The Big Freeze (Great cooling)
44551 Summer of the Great Creation Colo Russenia
Summer 106 785 from the base of the Asgard Erie
Summer 111 813 from the Great Migrations of Daarija
Summer period from 142,997 Three Moons
Summer 153,373 from Assa Dei
Summer Time 165,037 from Tara
Summer Time 185,773 from Thule
Summer Time by 211,693 SMAD
Summer Time by 273,901 h'Arra
Summer Time Gifts from 460,525
Summer Time 604,381 from three suns…

The part we'd be interested in for this analysis is the fall of Aratta (https://redice.tv/news/aratta-civilisation-of-ukraine-dating-to-22000-bce-presentation-by-dr-tim-and-heatherlee-hooker), and the rise of Sumer and the surrounding Mesopotamian states. A time Karim El Koussa (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pythagoras-Mathemagician-Karim-El-Koussa/dp/1934597163) describes as, 'The Land of the Winged Gods', because its from here that we can really track the dynamics and emergence of the various structural patterns of esoteric, mystery school, governance over the state of human affairs.

The "Summer 7515 from the Creation in the Star Temple", in relation to the slavic calendars, would relate to the mystery tradition history shared by Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas in Uriels Machine (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Uriels-Machine-Ancient-Origins-Science/dp/0099281821/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1537702041&sr=1-1&keywords=uriels+machine). The original Noahites, the survivors of the biblical deluge, would be the ones who established the Enochian star temples of the Melchizedek tradition, the original dragon court, whose motto was "fierce as wolves, wise as serpents, silent as doves".

Over time, as the luminal dimension darkened (descending within the yuga cycles) there was a split within the melchizedek tradition. The aaronite priesthood branched off from the pharaonite tradition (that's my interpretation of the data available at least). The Melchizedek tradition balkanised, forming the tradition of the winged lion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_of_Saint_Mark) (the babylonian brotherhood, which gravitates to left hemisphere dominant thinking i.e. Aristotelean philosophy) and that of the caduceus inspired, winged-serpent (The Pythagorean, Hermetic, Platonic traditions). These two gnostic traditions have been battling for supremacy ever since, in a series of coups and counter-coups, that run throughout history and form the backbone of western civilisation.

Key turning points of the battling factions

The 'winged lion' faction continued its decent into darkness, sporeing more factions within factions (according to Karim El Koussa in Jesus the Phoenician (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/19336422-jesus-the-phoenician)...the associated character level of each group is my designation.

Level 9 - The Melchizedek tradition
Level 8 - The Araonite priesthood
Level 7 - Essenes
Level 6 - Sadducees
Level 5 - Pharisees
Level 4 - The Zealots

Recognising the descent into darkness, the Melchizedek priests of the 'winged-serpent' Pythagorean tradition, attempted a coup, through the emergence of Christianity, to try restore order and nobility to the world. And for 700 years, the coup was successful throughout much of the Greco-Roman Byzantine world, which experienced a flourishing golden age as they returned to the traditional values of law and order, established by the wisdom teachings of Christ (source (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mohammed-Charlemagne-Revisited-History-Controversy/dp/0578094185)). I wouldn’t count gnostic Christianity as an Abrahamic religion, because gnostic Christianity came about in direct opposition to the caustic Talmudic teachings that were eroding the fabric of society. The Talmudists simply usurped the movement of Christianity later on to promote their control system.

In 700 AD, the Babylonian brotherhood struck back with their creation of the 3rd Abrahamic religion, Islam (a belief system that glorifies the level 3 archetype within the Clare Graves hierarchy). Their machinations amounted to a coup against Orthodox Christianity, causing the Byzantine world to be plunged into the dark ages, and enabling the rise of the 2nd Abrahamic religion, Catholic Christianity.

After 700 years of Dark Ages – in the depths of the kali yuga – the luminal dimension began to brighten. The heroic mindset begins to rekindle in the consciousness of those enslaved to the Babylonian Brotherhoods oligarchal control system.


1430 – Joan of Arc leads a revolt and attempts to throw off the oligarchs structure. The movement gets crushed, but the embers of freedom begin burning brighter.


1522 – Martin Luther, sees through the deceptions of the catholic church and writes the Luther bible, making the true wisdom of Christ available to the general public. This stirs the revolutionary passions of the reformation. The Babylonian Brotherhood seeks to crush the movement, but this time, the embers spark into flames and the movement slowly catches fire throughout Europe.


1620 – it's the Rosicrucians (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rosicrucian-Enlightenment-Routledge-Classics/dp/0415267692) turn to lead the revolt. During the 30 years war, the Rosicrucians set sail for America, in an attempt to escape the clutches of the Babylonian brotherhood and establish a New Atlantis, based on the Platonic ideals of a self-sovereign, republic, nation (a return to the level 7 Clare Graves archetype). It doesn't take long for The Babylonian Brotherhood to catch onto the scheme, sink their claws in, and implement the protocols of Zion to subvert the flourishing new culture.


1708 – (this is where history repeats and we see echoes of the Q movement as it emerges today) Jonathan Swift and Liebniz (representing the platonic-hermetic tradition) began publishing cryptic warnings, under the pseudonym ‘Isaac Bickerstaff’, to the Venetian deep state, which was embedded within Londons political system. (How the Nation was Won - Graham Lowry (https://archive.org/details/HowTheNationWasWonAmericasUntoldStory1630-1754) page 98 onwards 'Deciphering Isaac Bickerstaff'). The Bickerstaff psy-op sufficiently rattled the Venetian oligarchs, and they momentarily loosed their grip on the American colonies, just long enough for a movement to rally - as the rest of that book describes - the ultimate outcome of the operation was the founding of the United States of America and the institutionalising of the American Constitution; the first major win for the hermetic, Pythagorean ‘winged-serpent’ tradition, a sign the Kali Yuga may be nearing its end.


1803-1815 – The Napoleonic wars. Not to be outdone, the Babylonian Brotherhood continued to do what they do best, start wars and fund communist-revolutions. The Platonic, Hermetic, Pythagorean traditions continued to make ground in the public consciousness. Rapid progress in Theosophy, Science, Technology etc begins to stir through the Western world. The fires of the Phoenix begin to glow.


1918 – With the likes of Nikola Tesla, society was evolving far too fast for the ‘Winged Lion’ Oligarchs of Venice. The 2 world wars were an attempt to blow humanity back into the stone age. Note: The control system of oligarchy operates at the 4-5-6 complex of Gravesian Archetypes. Once society makes a leap into the self-sovereign mindset of the level 7 value system; we're looking at a dramatic paradigm shift in the role of government, and how people relate to those government institutions i.e. meritocracy and aristocracy (in the original, noble, sense of that word). Is this where Steiner makes a prediction that in a hundred years humanity will have another chance to change the paradigm? He obviously knew about this 100 year tide cycle of rising character development.


2018 – what lends credence to the idea that Q is a genuine 'whitehat' psy-op (for me at least) is that the above book 'How the Nation was Won', was published by the Executive Intelligence Review (https://larouchepub.com), which was founded by Lyndon LaRouche. Lyndon LaRouche is the brains behind the 'One Belt, One Road' initiative that's sweeping the Eastern hemisphere. LaRouche's book Economics of the Noosphere (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Economics-Noosphere-LaRouche-Successful-Forecaster/dp/0943235200), is deeply grounded in Platonic, Pythagorean philosophy. Roger Stone often speaks at the LaRouchePac/Schiller Institute conferences (https://youtu.be/Yd26p4179IM?t=1h18m51s), and as everyone should know, Roger Stone is one of the Trump advisors who encouraged Trump to run for office of president to begin with. Interesting connection given the wisdom tradition that LaRouche represents. Certainly Stone would know of ‘The Bickerstaff Operation’ as he’s been familiar with LaRouches work for 40 years (as he mentioned in one of the conferences)


How does this help us analyse the Q movement?

Like all movements that take shape, how people organise around the structure of that movement is determined by their dominant character type.


Level 4's organise around a pyramid structure hierarchy, they always worship whoever sits above them in the pyramid of power. The Bilderberg group with their Brands and Celebrity icons, help to maintain this layer of the control grid. Brands and Celebrity figures are the religions of materialism that people fall in line to adore. You’re always going to get some of this type that latch onto any new authority figure that arrives on the scene. It’s human nature and it’s unavoidable. I’m not concerned with Q becoming a new Religion, in the long run at least.


Level 5's are the mercantilistic minded people - these are the ones who infiltrate and subvert any movement - purely for their own profit i.e. the ones selling t-shirts, merchandise, etc; anything to make a dime on the back of the Q-true believers (level 4) and the Q-cultists (level 6).


Level 6 – the organisational structure at this level is communism (group think), these tend to become the useful idiots that the fabian society preys on to create their revolutionary minded provocateurs. This archetype is prone to cultish habits and behaviours. The Antifa crowd are the perfect, mkultrad, demographic, that demonstrates the worst aspects of this archetypal mindset. Corey’s Kids would be another. If we start getting Q’s kids as a dominant faction within the Q community, who blindly follow Q anywhere, no matter how ludicrous or implausible, then we know it’s a psy-op with the ultimate goal being the subversion of the social fabric. There’s more to the whole Q phenomenon at the moment though for this to be its overriding agenda imo. They could still change course down the line of course and try to net as many people in as possible, it’s definitely an area to be keenly aware of and concerned about. Where my interest in Q though, resides in the next layer.


Level 7 – the Q-aficionados, the Anons, the deep researchers...the group who the cryptic Q messages are primed and targeted for. The organisational structure of this archetype is a wheel with a revolving leader at the centre (the centre of the wheel is chosen purely on merit, the moment the leader becomes ineffective, the group shifts alliances to anyone else who has better ideas) this layer of organisation will follow the Q-drops while they're providing value, but as soon as the Q-drops become too mundane, new sources for valuable content are sought, and Q gets dropped off the radar.

It's this last layer of the Q movement I place my support behind. And those who are warning that Q is a cult, hero or saviour figure, are equally right in warning the other organisational structures not to get too involved. Although, I hope they do get involved, albeit with a high dose of healthy skepticism, because there's still lots of value to be unearthed by the Q-aficionados, in derailing the 'winged lion', oligarchical, deep-state control structure; while ushering in a new paradigm based on LaRouche's economic laws, which represent more of a 7-8-9 character complex, and have the potential to birth a new golden age for humanity. Something that's supported by 'Music of the Sphere' astrologers.

Predicting the Future

Humanity is definitely at a crossroads. I liken the shift from the 4-5-6 character complex of 'the winged lion' oligarch class, to the 7-8-9 complex of 'the winged serpent' class, as being like the metamorphoses of a caterpillar into a butterfly. Humanity is at the threshold of taking flight, which is why the oligarch class is working so hard right now to bring out new technologies and control grids that stifle our natural evolutionary processes.

The 'Process' aspect of Systems Theory

Processes determine how shifts in the overall structure of a system are brought about. Processes are driven by strategies and tactics. Strategies are the unseen overall goals and agendas. Tactics are the visible units of movement that can be observed as events shift within the structure. It's through analysing tactics that we can deduce strategies, mindsets and agendas.

Dark Journalist made a comment that I found particularly interesting, in that both factions of the deep state 'The Winged Lion' and 'Winged Serpent' groups seem to have representatives working at CERN. This, to me, indicates that there may be a process towards reunification among both winged god factions of the deeper Melchizedek tradition. Based on the fact that we appear to be on the upward swing, away from the Kali Yuga, I'm not ashamed to say that I have great hope that things are going to work out for the best, and the worst elements within the 'winged lion' tradition; the Zionists and neocons can be brought to heel; without blowing up the planet or subjugating us to a lifetime of slavery in their nefarious plans for world communism.

Basically, if the negative factions have control over an advanced AI control grid as sophisticated as they depict in the CERN tarot, then we're all well and truly f*cked!
If a reunification between the winged gods groups at CERN has taken place, then the resulting group of Rosicrucian adepts, will neither be service-to-self, nor service-to-others, but service-to-source; and the AI will be used in a more benevolent way, that helps society flourish, develop, evolve and become an intergalactic federation that takes residence across the galaxy and throughout the stars.

I'll be keeping a keen eye on the tactics used by all sides as I straddle the fence in the middle, to see how this whole psy-op is ultimately going to play out. It took over 60 years from the ‘Bickerstaff operation’ in the 1700's before America ultimately won its freedom. The rattling of the deep state that the Q-movement is causing now, could take just as long to come to fruition, so, I don't really expect much to dramatically change in society within my lifetime at least. Ascension through the archetypal layers of consciousness is a slow, long, drawn-out process that occurs over millenia. But again, I'm hopeful for the best. And I’m always grateful for welcome, unexpected, surprises :sun:

~~~~~~

Final note: while researching Q in relation to a ‘winged serpent’ tradition. I found an unexpected direct hit, a movie made in 1982 with the remarkable title of Q: The winged serpent (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084556/). A potential case of predictive programming? A movie made by the Babylonian Priesthood to gaslight the Pythagorean tradition by painting them with a projection of their own atrocities? Or is Q really going to tear us all apart? The Labyrinthine riddle of Q just keeps on getting creepier. :confused::confused::confused:


IMDB Description


NYPD detectives Shepard and Powell are working on a bizarre case of a ritualistic Aztec murder. Meanwhile, something big is attacking people of New York and only greedy small time crook Jimmy Quinn knows where its lair is.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMDJmZjM1MzAtYzZmMS00MWU4LTk4NDMtZDM2ZGE4N2VkMDlhXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTQxNzMzNDI@._V1_.jpg

[waves]

I think Mr. Riordan has hit on something very significant, especially reminding us to look way ahead at what the agenda of any current psyop may be and not get so caught up in the details of the midst.


https://i.postimg.cc/W1s1j80M/monolith.jpg

I get it.

You wouldn't think the most evil, murderous, deceitful organization(s) would create a psyop to expose themselves into full view and all their historical evil deeds, would you?

I now think that's exactly what's happening.

Please keep in mind the word patience. Time does not matter to the people with all the knowledge and technological toys.

They've been 100? years ahead of us or more in both technology and planning with the power to do whatever they want.

Fifty years ago they fabricated the hippie, then newage movement introducing the concept of awakening, and are now using Q to s...l...o...w...l...y further unite the already 'informed' and 'wake up' the others to authenticate this movement of waking up to the provable evil they've been feeding the 'proof' for all along.

Eventually they will have a majority of people united against a common enemy.

People will then be informed of the only comprehensive, workable solution.

AI - the problem solver.

The masses will have then been fooled to accept ultimate control.

The free will based, individualized humanity experiment will have been destroyed.

I suspect, again.

[ThePythonicCow]

Wow - quit reading this crappy little post of mine and go back and re-read Jayke's Post #242 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104156-QAnon-An-Opposing-Viewpoint-LARP-Psyop-Cult-or-Something-Even-More-Sinister&p=1250235&viewfull=1#post1250235), above.

[norman]

Yea but , , , I don't quite get how they can insert AI as the slam dunk solution so convincingly to the masses. I definitely don't see it winning a logical choice but I suppose I can see it winning a convenience choice, after all, people do love their smart phones.



Can someone expand on how that would work, for me, please ?

[waves]

Yea but , , , I don't quite get how they can insert AI as the slam dunk solution so convincingly to the masses. I definitely don't see it winning a logical choice but I suppose I can see it winning a convenience choice, after all, people do love their smart phones.



Can someone expand on how that would work, for me, please ?

I suggest you listen to all Riordan's 10 minute or so summaries at the beginning of each video and contemplate what it suggests about the far reaching future.
More than anything, contemplate how ridiculously unaware we are of the technological capabilities and sophistication of the enemy.
I'm not suggesting AI is going to be a slam dunk solution tomorrow or soon.
We're not going to have any correct analysis/conclusions from a teeny tiny viewpoint just looking at Q minute by minute or towards next year or next election.
I'm suggesting we're being played to be playing along with the moral indignance we're being pushed to unite over while the more crucial fight is being ignored.

[norman]

Well, back in 2015 when Jade Helm was the big news, and the stuff that some people dug up about it, I found myself rolling on into the 2016 election period feeling that the whole thing was a continuity. The oddly different approach by Trump V the horribly wicked witch was like a Jade helm data gathering scheme from the get go.


As the election approached and there was a huge upswell of political enthusiasm for Trump and what he stood for, I let go of the Jade Helm perspective and forgot about it.


Now, with these recent posts, I'm right back at Jade Helm again.

[ThePythonicCow]

The complete
dissolution of
abstract power

The values and goals
of those who produce and
control technology are
always embedded
within it.
In other words, the values and goals of those who produce and control this are technological.

Someone has lost touch with their soul.

Perhaps I leapt too quickly to that conclusion. Perhaps the (warnings/fear porn)? regarding technocracy (http://www.reddirtreport.com/red-dirt-grit/patrick-woods-warnings-regarding-technocracy-and-transhumanism) short circuited my thinking.

What if the values and goals of those who produce and control this technology are better than the values and goals of those who currently sit at the top of the control pyramid? They might not have to reach far for that to be the case :).

Perhaps I have already seen a small example of that, in the little world of Linux kernel development, which I know quiet a bit about. The technology of the kernel itself, and of the tools used to develop it, form the largest open source (and perhaps even largest of any kind of source) software project of our times. The result embeds certain values and goals within the technology, that have been (not completely, but) highly resistant to infection by the corporate giants of the computer world such as IBM, Microsoft, Oracle, Cisco, Google and Amazon.

Cryptocurrencies and more generally distributed ledger technologies ("DLT", e.g. blockchain) are now engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that technology or any technology so conceived and so dedicated can long endure (my apologies to Mr Lincoln for stealing his words), outside of the total control of the traditional financial/monetary hierarchy that has so long ruled over us.

The underlying tcp (TCP) Internet technology, and the next layer up, the World Wide Web (WWW), are further along in similar struggles. The elite bastards of long standing seem quite intent on completing a world-wide surveillance and control grid, using such technologies as TCP, WWW, DLT, land and satellite based 5G, smart phones, ubiquitous embedded sensors and controllers (smart meters, the Internet of Things, ...) and Lord (Satan?) knows what else.

Technologies that I know less about, but that are perhaps (1) more important and (2) better hidden and controlled include technologies for materials, manufacturing, energy production, food and clean water production, healing, propulsion, and robotics.

This gets to my key point for this post:
It matters deeply what are the values and goals embedded in the technology within which we are becoming increasingly enmeshed.

I'd suggest not fighting technology in rage, for then we lose and the winners likely don't have our best interests at heart. Rather I'd suggest (as is reflected in many of my life choices over the years) working to mold and shape the technology, to better reflect our own values and goals, not those of the elite bastards ensconced for so long at the top of the pyramid of human civilization.

[ThePythonicCow]

Yea but , , , I don't quite get how they can insert AI as the slam dunk solution so convincingly to the masses. I definitely don't see it winning a logical choice but I suppose I can see it winning a convenience choice, after all, people do love their smart phones.

Can someone expand on how that would work, for me, please ?
The term "AI" has come to have two meanings for me ... quite different meanings.

1. Various computer software algorithms which have been used to code systems that can do things such as prove mathematics theorems, play games such as chess, and perform pattern recognition on images.

2. The meaning for "AI" that I find increasingly useful when reading or listening to discussions of these matters refers to the integration of the following (see my previous post, above, to decode the acronyms):

The elite bastards of long standing seem quite intent on completing a world-wide surveillance and control grid, using such technologies as TCP, WWW, DLT, land and satellite based 5G, smart phones, ubiquitous embedded sensors and controllers (smart meters, the Internet of Things, ...), robotics, self-driving cars, and Lord (Satan?) knows what else.
The second meaning for "AI" is far larger, and from what I can tell, better fits how the term "AI" is used in popular discussions and propaganda.

[norman]

Yea, but 2. has got lousy PR and I can't see any way in hell it will be welcome. Only force or deception or both combined would make it happen. Surely ?