Discussion about Q Thread Temporary Closings

[Joe from the Carolinas]

/*mod hat on*

This thread is a split for discussion and reaction posts surrounding closings of the Q Anon Update Thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters). To date, this is the second time the Q Anon Update Thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters) has been closed temporarily.

[Helene West]

One of Q's keywords is breadcrumbs, right? Who needs breadcrumbs? Dogs and beggars. That should be a clue that it's all a psy-op.

Q has peaked. The Alt Media Steering Committee will roll out another rinky-dink-psyop within 1-2 months. Stay tuned.

I don't want to be mistaken as a so-called Q apologist, but the term, breadcrumbs, was in use on the chans long before Q came along.

Q was just using their lingo.

Reading this thread there is a lot of misinformation you're sharing with each other.

But, you all sound so happy. :)

The QAnon thread was inexplicably closed (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters&p=1246871&viewfull=1#post1246871), so I just came to take a gander.

This thread was a good idea, thanks KiwiElf.

"inexplicably closed"?? I'm not surprised

[Oddball]

OK, so I'm posting here because apparently, the great Bill Ryan had a hissy fit.


What’s happened is that passions have risen to such a degree that besides the straight reporting of information, and the addition of intelligent, balanced comment, KiwiElf has been acting at least once a day on average, for quite a while, as an opinionated, belittling, immature, verbal bully. I stay this straight without any implied personal meanness.

Ummm, No. What happened is you got what the younger folks call "butthurt". The man was not "bullying" you, or anyone else. he was just asking you to point to which specific information made you believe that Q is bogus.

So you take one line, totally out of context from the rest of the post and point to that, ignoring all of the hard work and information that Kiwi keeps the thread updated with.

You said it yourself Bill, Kiwi posts in the Q thread several times a day. Why do you think he does that? Because he believes in this, he is passionate about it.

So instead of pointing to any kind of legitimate information, you just say that it "seems like a cult" to you. I guess its the first cult in the history of the world where nobody has ever met the leader, and the leader is constantly telling people to do their own research and think for themselves.

The man was trying to get you to engage in a legitimate debate, instead you ban him and close down the thread for not bending over and kissing your arse like so many on this forum do.

Edina simply called you out on not holding yourself to the same standards that you preach to everyone about.


The grounding here, for lack of a better word, as any parent knows, is simply a way of drawing the line.

Very telling statement how you view your "children" here on avalon. We aren't your snotnose little kids Bill. I'm a 40 year old disabled combat veteran. Maybe I don't have the life experience that you do with aliens and whistleblowers and whatnot, but I'm willing to bet money you don't have the life experiences that I do either. Thats the thing about respect, you have to show some to others before you can expect to get some back.


Re KiwiElf, the post that was really the very last straw, although the mods’ discussion was already well under way, was this one. It was 100% childish and 100% uncalled for. Enough there, too.


KiwiElf, some of the mods have rightly reminded each other, has a keen sense of humor. Yes. But if you’re trying to be funny, then be funny. One can be VERY funny (if one’s clever enough) without having to put others down, or belittle their sincere posts.

Seriously?The man was offering you a peace token, jeez get over yourself already. And btw, I found it hilarious.

I could go on, but its pretty pointless. I have found your "sincere" posts are the ones that were bullying, your behaviour childish. Not just in the Q thread, but elsewhere on the forum with anyone who does'nt tow the line and cater to dear old dads feelings when hes butthurt.

I had to cater to quite enough of that attitude when I was in the Military.

I refuse to be a member of any forum run by a egotistical, know it all dictator who has to publicly humiliate and punish his "children" who don't do, think and say exactly what "dad" wants them to do, think or say. Maybe you should work on getting some actual debating skills


If anyone simply can't see that, then just please leave now. It's fine.

No problem, last time you will see me here. Oddball out.

[Helene West]

OK, so I'm posting here because apparently, the great Bill Ryan had a hissy fit.


What’s happened is that passions have risen to such a degree that besides the straight reporting of information, and the addition of intelligent, balanced comment, KiwiElf has been acting at least once a day on average, for quite a while, as an opinionated, belittling, immature, verbal bully. I stay this straight without any implied personal meanness.

Ummm, No. What happened is you got what the younger folks call "butthurt". The man was not "bullying" you, or anyone else. he was just asking you to point to which specific information made you believe that Q is bogus.

So you take one line, totally out of context from the rest of the post and point to that, ignoring all of the hard work and information that Kiwi keeps the thread updated with.

You said it yourself Bill, Kiwi posts in the Q thread several times a day. Why do you think he does that? Because he believes in this, he is passionate about it.

So instead of pointing to any kind of legitimate information, you just say that it "seems like a cult" to you. I guess its the first cult in the history of the world where nobody has ever met the leader, and the leader is constantly telling people to do their own research and think for themselves.

The man was trying to get you to engage in a legitimate debate, instead you ban him and close down the thread for not bending over and kissing your arse like so many on this forum do.

Edina simply called you out on not holding yourself to the same standards that you preach to everyone about.


The grounding here, for lack of a better word, as any parent knows, is simply a way of drawing the line.

Very telling statement how you view your "children" here on avalon. We aren't your snotnose little kids Bill. I'm a 40 year old disabled combat veteran. Maybe I don't have the life experience that you do with aliens and whistleblowers and whatnot, but I'm willing to bet money you don't have the life experiences that I do either. Thats the thing about respect, you have to show some to others before you can expect to get some back.


Re KiwiElf, the post that was really the very last straw, although the mods’ discussion was already well under way, was this one. It was 100% childish and 100% uncalled for. Enough there, too.


KiwiElf, some of the mods have rightly reminded each other, has a keen sense of humor. Yes. But if you’re trying to be funny, then be funny. One can be VERY funny (if one’s clever enough) without having to put others down, or belittle their sincere posts.

Seriously?The man was offering you a peace token, jeez get over yourself already. And btw, I found it hilarious.

I could go on, but its pretty pointless. I have found your "sincere" posts are the ones that were bullying, your behaviour childish. Not just in the Q thread, but elsewhere on the forum with anyone who does'nt tow the line and cater to dear old dads feelings when hes butthurt.

I had to cater to quite enough of that attitude when I was in the Military.

I refuse to be a member of any forum run by a egotistical, know it all dictator who has to publicly humiliate and punish his "children" who don't do, think and say exactly what "dad" wants them to do, think or say. Maybe you should work on getting some actual debating skills


If anyone simply can't see that, then just please leave now. It's fine.

No problem, last time you will see me here. Oddball out.


I'm sorry maybe it's because I come from old school authoritarian backgrounds where you respect your elders, the heads of households, the teachers, blah, blah unless they are of course total disturbed people -

I've been singled out on this forum for lashings and I feel Bill gave me support. I feel he has come to the aid of others who were getting somewhat bullied as well. Though I was confused by the Running Deer, Kiwi, smudging thing on the Q thread, I got the impression that Bill was being protective of Running Deer.
I also feel Edina was far too confrontational with Bill which in my code of conduct = disrespect.

He created this board and has given us a mindblowing free .pdf library to boot! In my code he warrants more respect than the average poster. If you can't put some pride in your pocket once in a blue moon and accept this is not an Anarchy forum where misfits contrive to have no hierarchy then yeah, leave and don't let the door slam you in the butt on the way out.

[norman]

Yea But . . .


This, "Challenge Bill / Don't Challenge Bill" dynamic occasionally gets played by crafty operators.


That's what upsets me the most around here right now.

[Helene West]

Yea But . . .


This, "Challenge Bill / Don't Challenge Bill" dynamic occasionally gets played by crafty operators.


That's what upsets me the most around here right now.

There's not enough folks here to 'challenge' that some have to try to 'teach the teacher a lesson'? I'm just saying I feel there was disrespect starting to creep in and I support a monkey wrench being thrown into the joint to stop it.

Anyhow enough of this for me. It has nothing to do with my concerns and fears regarding the country/world I find myself in and why I come to this forum. Hopefully people will be cooled off by the time the Q thread opens and Kiwi and Edina come back.

[Hervé]

[...]
If anyone simply can't see that, then just please leave now. It's fine.
No problem, last time you will see me here. Oddball out.
Oddball's decision has been confirmed and applied.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Hate to see this in-fighting, things are divisive enough in the world without finding in here as well.

I've valued some of your recent posting Oddball, for what it's worth, and it would be a shame to end it like this. But if you'd been around a while longer, you'd know very well by now that this place, and Bill, is truly nothing like what you think it is. I've seldom encountered a more wise, generous, or humble individual in all my time - especially in the alt-culture of conspiracy theory research, the minefield that it is, or whatever you want to call it. So I call foul on that, big time.

But then again I feel both sides of this have allowed a little bit too much emotion to spill over on what is rather a small matter in my view, one of those mountains out of a molehill. It degraded surprisingly quickly, with regrettable results...

My small opinion, such as it is, says that I do think this would have been better handled all round, and by all parties, off the forums, and with private messages to those concerned. Just to tell them to dial it down, or whatever the mods feel was needed. PA has incurred a slight tarnish by this affair..again in my small opinion.

[RunningDeer]

I don’t like how more and more I modify my words for fear of public ridicule. Worst yet, I’m disappointed that I silence myself because of it. A smaller world grows. I’m aware of that. It’s on me. No one else.

There’s a fine line between a choice to not post on a thread than to engage in what often feels more like gamesmanship. There’s more for me to learn of how to be comfortable with an exchange of ideas and not project that it’s an attack on my personhood. There’s more for me to learn on how to navigate those that are out to vomit-out their ideas above all else.


One size doesn’t fill all.
We have different ways to express and see.
Be Kind. Rewind.
(simple, but effective)

♡


http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Fantasy_Fun/goldfish.jpg

[Valerie Villars]

To be honest, I was pretty gobsmacked that the thread had gotten so ugly. So, as things were being thrown around, I ducked my head and retreated from the room.

I was also confused as to what was actually happening and what the barbs were all about. It got really muddy, really quickly.

It felt like I was on an alternate Avalon timeline. "How the hell did I end up here?" :crazy::drama:

[Helene West]

Why do some of the posts here have the title - "Re: QAnon - An Opposing Viewpoint - LARP, Psyop, Cult or Something Even More Sinister?" and other posts have the title - "Discussions About Q Thread Closings"???

'the Opposing...' thread was just getting interesting and now another thread on drama-rama. ok, a thread was closed for 24 hrs, big deal. Some folks got their little fingers slapped big deal. We'll all get over it...
I still think the topic on whether we're being played by Q or Intelligence agencies or ____ is interesting.

[Joe from the Carolinas]

*/mod hat on*


Why do some of the posts here have the title - "Re: QAnon - An Opposing Viewpoint - LARP, Psyop, Cult or Something Even More Sinister?" and other posts have the title - "Discussions About Q Thread Closings"???

Thanks Helene for pointing that out, I really appreciate it :) It was my error. As I moved the posts into this thread, the old post titles carried over. I've gone back and edited posts in this thread with the proper titles. I apologize for any confusion.

[Jayke]

Just playing devils advocate and noting that David Wilcock targets Bill in his latest blog post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103398-David-Wilcock-s-letter-of-resignation-to-Gaia-TV&p=1247079&viewfull=1#post1247079) (which Wilcock published last night), as ichingcarpenter has posted over on the Wilcock thread. It’s entirely plausible that the hoopla and fallout over Q could have resulted from members feeling pressured via psychic attack! (I always feel my adrenals flare up when someone’s psychically projecting evil intent my way, it can make one feel overly combative, with a heightened threat perception and edgy!)

It’s important that we don’t blame each other and just take a deep breath, chin up, shake it off and let’s get back to the bigger picture discussions and truth discernment...

[RunningDeer]

Just playing devils advocate and noting that David Wilcock targets Bill in his latest blog post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103398-David-Wilcock-s-letter-of-resignation-to-Gaia-TV&p=1247079&viewfull=1#post1247079) (which Wilcock published last night), as ichingcarpenter has posted over on the Wilcock thread. It’s entirely plausible that the hoopla and fallout over Q could have resulted from members feeling pressured via psychic attack! (I always feel my adrenals flare up when someone’s psychically projecting evil intent my way, it can make one feel overly combative, with a heightened threat perception and edgy!)

It’s important that we don’t blame each other and just take a deep breath, chin up, shake it off and let’s get back to the bigger picture discussions and truth discernment...

I caught that post earlier. My first and second instinct was the timing is no accident that Wilcock posted it when he did.

http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/alien.gif

[Foxie Loxie]

O.K.....so Trump Derangement Syndrome hit PA...."they" will do whatever it takes to keep everyone divided so "they" can continue controlling us all. :bigsmile: We were HAD!!

Will the Q drops be allowed to continue? :confused:

[Jayke]

O.K.....so Trump Derangement Syndrome hit PA...."they" will do whatever it takes to keep everyone divided so "they" can continue controlling us all. :bigsmile: We were HAD!!

Will the Q drops be allowed to continue? :confused:

I’m still gaining value from the Q drops so I hope so. I made an interesting connection today from an article Paul shared on a separate thread. Q was telling us to keep an eye on Jerome Corsi. I wondered if Corsi was related to Alvise Zorzi. I didn’t find anything to suggest he was, but the google search brought me back some fascinating, in-depth, scholarly books on the hidden history of Florence and the rise of the Medicis in the Renaissance. Creativity is connectivity!

If Q is a deep state psy-op, then they’re doing a really bad job imo, because I’m getting some seriously wild research done while attempting to connect the dots they’ve been dropping.

I’m not prepared to wade through the chan boards for more though, I’ll wait for Kiwis return so he can provide that service.

[Valerie Villars]

Same here Jayke. Q quests have taught me a LOT about what is going on because I read something and then researched it. If Q was gone tomorrow, I would still dig. But, I don't want it to be gone and I very much appreciate Kiwi's work.

I have learned more about how my country is run from Q and related research, than all my years in traditional school. That's worth something.

[Helene West]

O.K.....so Trump Derangement Syndrome hit PA...."they" will do whatever it takes to keep everyone divided so "they" can continue controlling us all. :bigsmile: We were HAD!!

Will the Q drops be allowed to continue? :confused:

I hear you Foxie. Bill said the Q board is now open again but the question is will Kiwi come back and post the drops so reliably as we came to depend on him. Hopefully he won't be so upset for being banned for a few days. I don't go to the chan boards nor have the time to do such. Hopefully he'll put this all behind and come back and continue.

[Joe from the Carolinas]

O.K.....so Trump Derangement Syndrome hit PA...."they" will do whatever it takes to keep everyone divided so "they" can continue controlling us all. :bigsmile: We were HAD!!

Will the Q drops be allowed to continue? :confused:

I hear you Foxie. Bill said the Q board is now open again but the question is will Kiwi come back and post the drops so reliably as we came to depend on him. Hopefully he won't be so upset for being banned for a few days. I don't go to the chan boards nor have the time to do such. Hopefully he'll put this all behind and come back and continue.

I hope kiwi resumes his coverage of the Q drops! :)

[samildamach]

I greatly appreciate what kiwi has done on the q thread,the sheer amount of work and dedication of updates has been nothing short of astounding.

[samildamach]

Just playing devils advocate and noting that David Wilcock targets Bill in his latest blog post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103398-David-Wilcock-s-letter-of-resignation-to-Gaia-TV&p=1247079&viewfull=1#post1247079) (which Wilcock published last night), as ichingcarpenter has posted over on the Wilcock thread. It’s entirely plausible that the hoopla and fallout over Q could have resulted from members feeling pressured via psychic attack! (I always feel my adrenals flare up when someone’s psychically projecting evil intent my way, it can make one feel overly combative, with a heightened threat perception and edgy!)

It’s important that we don’t blame each other and just take a deep breath, chin up, shake it off and let’s get back to the bigger picture discussions and truth discernment...

I caught that post earlier. My first and second instinct was the timing is no accident that Wilcock posted it when he did.

http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/smilies/alien.gif

I also noted that certain words in the thread escalated the problem when normal they wouldn't.
For instance the words triggered and psyop caused unusual reactions.
I looked in myself and found emotional attachment in the defence of these words.
I actually found myself angry at bill ( sorry bill),for daring to use the word psyop against me like I was a child who didnot understand,because I had emotional investment in the q thread.
I can vouch for the fact that I've not been triggered by these words before, there just words right?

[Bill Ryan]

I actually found myself angry at bill ( sorry bill),for daring to use the word psyop against me like I was a child who didnot understand,because I had emotional investment in the q thread.

Hi there, and this is NOT any kind of pushback. I promise. :flower:

But I never used the word psyop 'against you', or against anyone, in any Q thread at all.

The last time I replied to a post of yours was in 2015. And in only one of my posts in any Q thread did I ever use the word 'psyop' or 'psy-op'. I really did check, because it made no sense to me, and I was concerned.

That was here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104156-QAnon-An-Opposing-Viewpoint-LARP-Psyop-Cult-or-Something-Even-More-Sinister&p=1247232&viewfull=1#post1247232), where I wrote yesterday: (about claims in general, with no reference to Q)


Again, 'campfire stories' (unprovable claims) should maybe be heard, remembered, noted, and not erased from the public record. Unless it's an almost certainly established psy-op, they shouldn't be censored or silenced. There's value in considering them as potentially real.

What I said there is that nothing should be censored unless it's almost certainly KNOWN that something's a psy-op — like the Flat Earth meme, for instance.

Can you kindly clarify? THX. :sun:

[mojo]

This might help Bill... This post number 6668 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters&p=1246028&viewfull=1#post1246028) in the Qanon supporters thread. IMO it was upsetting to hear that you didnt say it and that was used as defense...


I'm not going to read this entire thread, but I recall another "alternative news" guy, one I hold in high esteem, saying months ago that this "q" thing is a psyop. Bill Ryan

[Dennis Leahy]

I actually found myself angry at bill ( sorry bill),for daring to use the word psyop against me like I was a child who didnot understand,because I had emotional investment in the q thread.

Hi there, and this is NOT any kind of pushback. I promise. :flower:

But I never used the word psyop 'against you', or against anyone, in any Q thread at all.

The last time I replied to a post of yours was in 2015. And in none of my posts in any Q thread did I ever use the word 'psyop' or 'psy-op'. I really did check, because it made no sense to me, and I was concerned.

Can you kindly clarify? THX. :sun:
That was me. In the "q" thread, I said that Bill early-on saw the coy, sophomoric, teasing "clues" from "q", and said that is not how whistleblowers act, and is a psy-op. That, "...and is a psy-op", phrase may be me misremembering what Bill said (a year ago!) If so, apologies to Bill for 'putting words in his mouth.'

Maybe the bigger picture is that we should recognize it as a psy-op, rather than be worried about getting feelings hurt for someone pointing it out. If you grasp the idea behind Operation Mockingbird, then you know that citizens have been under a heavy blanket of psychological operations our entire lives. A better question than "is this a psy-op?" would be, "what isn't a psy-op?" In fact, the q thing is a psy-op regardless of the intent or whether it is good guys. It is a manipulative psychological operation with an agenda.

A good review:
"Psywar - The Real Battlefield is the Mind"
http://metanoia-films.org/psywar/

[Bill Ryan]

This might help Bill... This post number 6668 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a---Very-Bad-Day---Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters&p=1246028&viewfull=1#post1246028) in the Qanon supporters thread. IMO it was upsetting to hear that you didnt say it and that was used as defense...


I'm not going to read this entire thread, but I recall another "alternative news" guy, one I hold in high esteem, saying months ago that this "q" thing is a psyop. Bill Ryan

Yes. That was Dennis loosely misquoting (or misinterpreting) me, with genuinely good intentions. But not me. That's not what I've ever actually said.

This is how wars can accidentally start. :)

I'll make one remark here that I'd like everyone to consider, if I may. It's a serious one.

There's a strange incongruity between the Sherlock-Holmes-like focus on every syllable of what 'Q' writes..... and getting it WAY WAY wrong regarding what I write, mean, or say.

And I'm not even writing in riddles. I never do.

Folks, this is important. If you're going to be smart, astute, analysts and code-breakers, please get it right when someone's actually writing as clearly as it's possible to do.

Do we see the irony? :)

[RunningDeer]

A good review:
"Psywar - The Real Battlefield is the Mind"
http://metanoia-films.org/psywar/

Psywar Documentary - transcript (https://ratical.org/ratville/Psywar.html)


PSYWAR trailer (4:33 minutes)
2eB046f998U

Raul Franceschi
Published on Aug 24, 2010

"The real battlefield is the mind”


Psywar - Full Documentary (HD)
nSh6qtoQkmU


Conspiracy Documentaries
Published on Apr 2, 2014

See more at http://www.ConspiracyDocumentaries.com

This film explores the evolution of propaganda and public relations in the United States, with an emphasis on the "elitist theory of democracy" and the relationship between war, propaganda and class.

Includes original interviews with a number of dissident scholars including Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Michael Parenti, Peter Phillips ("Project Censored"), John Stauber ("PR Watch"), Christopher Simpson ("The Science of Coercion") and others.

[ThePythonicCow]

In fact, the q thing is a psy-op regardless of the intent or whether it is good guys.
Speaking for myself (totally not speaking for Bill), I would agree with you Dennis, on that point.

That is, I would agree if we're using the Wikipedia definition of psy-op (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_warfare)
Psychological warfare (PSYWAR), or the basic aspects of modern psychological operations (PSYOP), have been known by many other names or terms, including MISO, Psy Ops, political warfare, "Hearts and Minds", and propaganda.[1] The term is used "to denote any action which is practiced mainly by psychological methods with the aim of evoking a planned psychological reaction in other people".[2] Various techniques are used, and are aimed at influencing a target audience's value system, belief system, emotions, motives, reasoning, or behavior.
and not the Urban Dictionary definition (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=psyop)

Intelligence agency term for "psychological operation". A government or corporate-sponsored operation, usually taking the form of a "terrorist attack" or "crazed gunman on a spree", with the intent of panicking the public into demanding more police and laws inhibiting freedom. Psyops are usually carried out by drugging a civilian or group of civilians with aggression-promoting drugs, psyching them up, arming them, and sending them out to commit mayhem. Government-sponsored terrorism.
Where Dennis and I disagree (and where we are each delighted that we don't hold the position of the other), is whether "it is good guys" or not, as Dennis correctly phrases it.

I will readily grant Dennis that I cannot "prove" to him that my contention that Q is a "good guy" is correct, without my introducing what is indistinguishable from "wishful thinking" into my arguments.

I would also readily grant the more distinguished researchers in these or nearby fields, such as Richard Dolan, Joseph P Farrell or Bill Ryan that, should they so claim, Q is not following proper research protocol ... not even close.

[samildamach]

Sorry bill it does need some clarification.
Psyop was not used or aimed directly at me,or anybody else.
What happened is I noticed that I felt emotion triggered by it's use in a thread that I had emotional input.
What I was trying to suggest is that I have no idea why I was angry at your use of the word psyop,even though the anger/hurt only lasted a few seconds.
It's not something that has happened to me before,its not like an emotional story that affects you as you read,it was an instant response to a single word.

[onawah]

Just for the sake of clarity, Bill, you meant that the members of the Q thread were dismissive of the posts on the thread from members who were dubious about Q data provenance, or who didn't understand it well, right?
Not that the dubious ones were unpleasantly dismissive.
Apologies if I am belaboring the point, but until lately, it's been rather a free for all.

"The problem was never with the data on the thread. It was with the sometimes unpleasant dismissal of those who were dubious about its provenance, or didn't understand it well. That's not what we stand for."


It would seem so.

Btw, in case there's any bewilderment out there (or confusion!), I support 100% the main Q thread continuing, because it's data. One of the many things we do here is collect data, and I frequently point out that we're a library. So of course that should continue.

The last couple of days I've commended and encouraged Paul to continue to copy and paste the 'Q-drops' on the main thread. He'll confirm that. (I'd have happily done it myself, but I have no clue where to start. :) )

Even if something ends up as a conclusively proven hoax, we label it as such, and then move the thread to that section. It remains open and searchable. (And in many cases, still open to post on.) We really do try to play fair here. :flower:

The problem was never with the data on the thread. It was with the sometimes unpleasant dismissal of those who were dubious about its provenance, or didn't understand it well. That's not what we stand for.

Now, we have some balance, which is healthy. We can discuss all aspects of this without stepping on each others' toes, and those who want to solely follow Q can do that without the hassle of having to tolerate counter-opinions, now on two different threads.

[Bill Ryan]

Just for the sake of clarity, Bill, you meant that the members of the Q thread were dismissive of the posts on the thread from members who were dubious about Q data provenance, or who didn't understand it well, right?
That's what I meant when I wrote that, but yes, one or two others were definitely heated, too. The reaction became critical, as the nuclear physicists say. It wasn't easily going to cool down again.

Too many big cats in a small cage. :) We should have divided the threads long ago... our bad, I think. As I mentioned in the post you quoted:
Now, we have some balance, which is healthy. We can discuss all aspects of this without stepping on each others' toes, and those who want to solely follow Q can do that without the hassle of having to tolerate counter-opinions, now on two different threads.

[Smell the Roses]

If you're going to be smart, astute, analysts and code-breakers, please get it right when someone's actually writing as clearly as it's possible to do.

Do we see the irony? :)

I see the irony. I have never understood why some brilliant people on Project Avalon spend so much time focusing on other people's ideas, when there are so many individuals here with excellent ideas right in their very own minds. I don't care what other people do with their spare time, but I personally will rarely click on a link or a video here (with few exceptions, usually when the author is also a PA member, such as Wade Frazier). I would 1000 times rather read the spiritual or intellectual analysis of the extraordinary citizens here on PA than read whatever the latest mysterious guru has to say.

This whole Q business I will skim over from time to time, but most of it seems to get into the weeds. I'm glad it's all kind of coming to a head here, because the great thing about Project Avalon is that it focuses on real-world solutions, meaning areas that human beings reading the words on this forum can affect in their real lives.

If individuals acquire some kind of enlightenment from Q, that's fine. To me it would just be one more distraction in a long line of distractions. Bill may never have said it's a psy-op, but I will. Distracting the immune has always been the goal of the chain-reaction psy-ops. If this psy-op doesn't get them, try the next one...:dog:

[ThePythonicCow]

If individuals acquire some kind of enlightenment from Q, that's fine. To me it would just be one more distraction in a long line of distractions. Bill may never have said it's a psy-op, but I will. Distracting the immune has always been the goal of the chain-reaction psy-ops. If this psy-op doesn't get them, try the next one...:dog:
I'll reply here because yours happens to be the latest post on this thread, and because you speak well of the matter and your perspective on it.

But this thought that I am about to write here has been rolling around in my cranium for a couple of days now.

The thought: The seed is not the plant.

We use plants for many purposes, including food, clothing, shelter, healing and decoration.

The seeds and nuts from which those plants grew are not those plants, do not look like those plants, and for the most part cannot serve the same purposes. Often the conditions of light, temperature, moisture, soil and nutrients that it takes to germinate a seed are not even the conditions best suited to the plant that might grow from that seed.

What those of us who are following Q are doing, in my view and by this plant-seed metaphor, is creating the seeds of thought, insight, research and community that may (soon, we think, as we're an optimistic bunch) turn into some useful plants. We are creating the narrative, that will help explain to and engage in a fruitful manner, a wider audience in what is happening, when some unexpected (by most people) events occur. Q is playing games with us, dropping hints, clues and questions, that engage and help energize our efforts.

When the storm of the century comes, washing out to sea some of the landmarks of the American state and reshaping the political, military, technological, economic and monetary world, some of the narrative by which people, in particular Americans in the case of Q, are able to make sense of the changes will, we expect, grow from the narrative seeds that we are nurturing now.

The seed is not the plant, and most, who don't happen to have "green thumbs" and to be familiar with that particular assortment of seeds, cannot yet see what plants will grow from those seeds, or even if anything useful will grow. Often their skepticism is right; often nothing much grows.

We have greater hopes and dreams for our seeds, but not all will be "heaven on earth", not all the great problems of our world will be resolved for the better, at least not by any means that I know of.

I expect however that some of the major problem areas of the last half century, will be much improved.

[Smell the Roses]

The thought: The seed is not the plant.



I love it! I am glad that you and others are willing and able to tend the Q seed, because I am not up for the task! I appreciate you reporting back on what is blooming. The last time I got burned on optimism was the David Wilcock/Drake (Cosmic Voice) thing, and I just can't invest any more energy into that kind of thing.

Pondering further, I realize that it was realizing that Drake was a fraud, searching on the Internet, and finding the Drake exposed (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?44252-Who-is-DRAKE-The-Loyal-Order-of-the-Royal-Dragon&p=754064#post754064) thread here on Project Avalon that led me to this beautiful website in 2013! So indeed though the Drake seed was poisoned, the Project Avalon plant bloomed in my life as a result. :heart: As you say, Paul, perhaps something similar will occur with the Q seed.

[Bill Ryan]

Paul and I had just had an interesting amicable discussion — inconclusive, of course! — but we both thought members might find this of some value to prompt [more] thought.

~~~

Bill: This
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104257-When-will-ascension-happen&p=1247664&viewfull=1#post1247664
...may be a must-read. I have to say, I'm impressed with Indigris.

Paul: I remain among the deluded hopeful :)

Bill: Right! I'm not hope-less. :) The key is that we have to do the work ourselves. The ETs, God, the Tooth Fairy, or Ascension (or even Q!) aren't going to do that for us.

Paul: Q is not doing, nor pretending to do, the work for us. He/She/They would quite agree with you.

Bill: Well, he/she/they is inculcating a bunch of hope. If substance for that hope doesn't materialize in time, then damage will be done.
If it DOES manifest, then great. But waiting and hoping is dangerous, and potentially disempowering in itself.

Paul: Q is inculcating a bunch of research, discussion, and, at high levels in the American state, action, much of which is hopeful.
Peering through the misty clouds to see where the climbing footholds might be is a necessary prelude to advancing, even though it is an imperfect science

Bill: Yes... no disagreement. There's data in there, which is valuable. But the other aspect is that people are being told to 'trust the plan' (my paraphrase). Suppose there isn't one? People are being asked to trust something they have no real evidence exists (they just hope it does!) — and which may not exist.
That's the danger. I really do understand that using a device to inspire people is pragmatically valuable. That's what preachers from the pulpit do. That's why your friend goes to Church. It gives her strength, and makes her feel better about the world.

Paul: There is evidence; substantial evidence.

Bill: Evidence, yes. But the jury hasn't yet retired.

Paul: It does take a bit of optimism to engage however. If you were stranded on a dangerous ledge with a few amateur climbers of limited experience, would you tell them not to scan the rocks above and below for ways up or down, because they might not see a path, or the path they think they see might not be one that they can traverse?
The jury is not only not yet retired; it has hardly even been seated.

Bill: Yes... all mountaineering analogies apply

Paul: :)

Bill: (Truly. I've used all kinds of devices to help people feel better and more confident than the circumstances actually warrant. It helps them get to safety... I can recount a number of fun stories.)

Paul: indeed

Bill: In fact, I'll tell one a little later... I was personally motivated (and maybe my life saved) by a blatant lie told me by my trusted climbing partner. It did the trick, perfectly... he knew me extremely well, and told me what I needed to hear so I made all the safe decisions. Interesting stuff.

Paul: Evidence: North Korea is being descalated, de-nuclearized. Syria and Assad are almost done with restoring their sovereignty and chasing out the CIA sponsored ISIS. Thousands, likely tens of thousands, of child pedophiles have been arrested. The deep corruption of the Dept of Justice that I have been watching take place for 20 years now is being reversed, with almost all the key DOJ players gone. The CIA-Saudi sponsoring of terrorists and funding of Clintonistas and funding of US Social Media is reversed.

Bill: Yes to all of the above :thumbsup:
What's that to do with Q?

Paul: Evidence of Uranium One and of the misuse of the FISA court to spy on political opposition is coming out.

Bill: Yes :thumbsup:

Paul: What to do with Q: It is Q's questioning, teasing, game playing, that has been leading more of us to look for, see and know the above evidence.

Bill: Yes. There's data in there.

Paul: ... and to know that others of us are similarly on this

Bill: Yes, there do seem to be inside factions which are really helping to clean up this mess.

Paul: Q is also being used like fakes and feints in boxing, to get the Rockefeller-Bush-Clinton-Saudi-Etc portion of the deep state to be forced to make moves that further expose and weaken them.

Bill: Well, maybe.
That sounds like an article of faith... as you have so often written, "we don't know that".

Paul: I figure that most likely yet another deep state family or three are behind Trump and this work, and my grandchildren may hold the names of those families in the same low regard that I hold the names Rockefeller, Bush, Clinton, ...
But still, a bit of house cleaning seems in order

Bill: Yes, 100% agreed
(re house cleaning)

Paul: Not entirely faith, but certainly not sufficient evidence to convict someone of a parking ticket.
We're more in the role of detectives, following clues and hints, than in the role of the judge, jury or hangman Though, as when climbing, sometimes one must act on incomplete information
... or as when moderating a forum :)

Bill: Well, much of it is alt media TV. It's entertainment. The only REAL value (for anything we do or offer a platform for on Avalon!) is offering good information that helps people lead better lives — making the right decisions, voting for the best people, eating the best stuff, buying the best things, trusting the best sources, and searching for and then expressing the best you and me.
There's a real danger of seduction in thinking that by studying Q's posts, (e.g.) — or reading David Wilcock! — one is somehow helping the world be a better place. Maybe one's doing nothing, but just thinking one is.

Paul: There may be another REAL value ... leading and encouraging people to discover and share, with us and others, good information. We do not just provide; we also encourage others to find.

Bill: Most people in the alt media community are consumers. They watch a different kind of TV. Many actually do very little.
That's the danger... the illusion one's doing something, when one isn't.

Paul: A possible advantage of Q, over a Wilcock or Goode, is that Q is packaged in a way that is, shall I say, easier for those who are not interested in, or don't have the time, to do their own serious research, to ignore.

Bill: Actually, I profoundly disagree.... if it was packaged well, no-one would have to decode and argue over riddles. The info would be straight and clear. That's why I seldom read it. I won't play those games. It's a flytrap — at least it is, for me.

Paul: The seed is not the plant. Do not expect the seed to look like the plant it might become.
Yes - do not read it. It is easy to ignore ... that's a positive ... only those who happened to choose to dig into this odd looking stuff will be distracted by it at present.

Bill: Yes. :)
I prefer my sources to be people I know, who I know to have real info... or else we may as well be following something that was channeled. The same principles apply.
Channeled info = information that comes from an unknown source, is largely unverifiable, and which may or may not be true. But it DOES give a lot of people hope.

(aside) — this is an interesting conversation :highfive: — if you feel it's balanced, and I think it is, we could post it. It might help people to think... in ANY direction.
(Thinking is good!)

Paul: It is absolutely proper that we choose different sources, at different times, depending on who we are, what we might become next, and what might contribute to that. You might find Alex Jones a useful source, when perhaps I don't. Excellent.

Bill: Yes, agreed :thumbsup:

[ and then Sierra joined in ]

Sierra: What do you expect or hope the plant to be, given it is directed at the alt community or even the masses in general?

Paul: @Sierra - what I hope, that the plant will become: more visible, to a much wider public, cleanup of some of the particulars of the Rockefeller-Bush-Clinton crime syndicate, which those of us in the Q advance party will be in a better position to explain to our colleagues who had been busy tending to other matters in their lives.

[norman]

I get that Paul is stuck on keeping his 'faith' in credit, and Bill is stuck on 'keeping the light of day on things', in credit.


Not bad for starters, but something has to give ;)

[Bill Ryan]

I get that Paul is stuck on keeping his 'faith' in credit, and Bill is stuck on 'keeping the light of day on things', in credit.

Not bad for starters, but something has to give ;)

Yes, we posted it because it was very balanced. :sun:

In the end (sometime!), the truth will out.