Syria Hit With Massive Sustained Attack from Sea [2018-09-17]

[Hervé]

Syria hit with massive sustained attack: Russian S-400 defenses possibly active In huge escalation - UPDATES (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-17/massive-sustained-attack-syria-russian-s-300-defenses-possibly-active-huge)

Tyler Durden ZeroHedge (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-17/massive-sustained-attack-syria-russian-s-300-defenses-possibly-active-huge)
Mon, 17 Sep 2018 22:42 UTC


https://www.sott.net/image/s24/488609/large/Air_Defense_Syria.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s24/488609/full/Air_Defense_Syria.jpg)


Update: The Pentagon has formally denied that tonight's massive sustained attack on Syria had US involvement.

US-funded VOA News reports a Pentagon spokesman issuing the following statement: "I can unequivocally say this is not us," said Navy Cmdr. Sean Robertson.

Regional sources report, citing Syrian officials, that Monday night's attack involved "cruise missiles fired from the sea".




https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1034787395047026689/AAe_UvMR_bigger.png (https://twitter.com/IntelCrab) The Intel Crab‏ @IntelCrab (https://twitter.com/IntelCrab) 4h4 hours ago (https://twitter.com/IntelCrab/status/1041778307627409411)

The Intel Crab Retweeted Syrian Strategic Researches

This would be huge if confirmed.

The Intel Crab added,
Syrian Strategic Researches @Syrian_SR
Both #Syria/n #Russia/n AD systems are engaging targets over #Latakia and over the sea I can confirm an S-400 launch.
Show this thread
14 replies 46 retweets 62 likes


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/783778179261538304/patHxgMv_bigger.jpg Carla Babb‏Verified account @CarlaBabbVOA (https://twitter.com/CarlaBabbVOA)

Replying to @IntelCrab (https://twitter.com/IntelCrab)
Pentagon spokesman Navy Cmdr. Sean Robertson tells VOA on Syrian claims of engaging missile targets over #Latakia (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Latakia?src=hash) "I can unequivocally say this is not us." #BREAKING (https://twitter.com/hashtag/BREAKING?src=hash) @VOANews (https://twitter.com/VOANews)

1:34 PM - 17 Sep 2018
7 replies 152 retweets 79 likes * * *

Earlier:
Another attack on Syria has occurred tonight on multiple locations in what is the largest sustained series of what are believed to be Israeli or possibly US air strikes in months. But hugely significant is that early reports suggest Russia's S-400 anti-missile missile defense system engaged the inbound rockets.

On Monday night Syrian state-run SANA confirmed multiple missiles fired "from the sea into Lattakia city" in "an aggression from unknown source" which state media says involved successful intercepts by Syrian missile defense.

British-Syrian journalist Danny Makki, currently reporting from the ground, says the attack (https://twitter.com/Dannymakkisyria/status/1041794981965508608) "lasted for a total of 1 hour 30 minutes" and missiles soared over four cities including Latakia, Tartus, Homs and Hama - with rockets and explosions lighting up the sky especially over the coastal towns.

Though it appears another Israeli strike - as it came less than two days following an attack near Damascus (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-15/air-strikes-target-damascus-syrian-officials-say-israeli-missile-attack-thwarted) - the details are still unknown, and some observers are speculating it could be an American attack, given that at least some of the missiles were fired from the sea.

SANA reports "an aggression on Lattakia has targeted the Technical Industries' establishment" adding that "the air defenses intercepted and downed a number of the missiles".

Multiple journalists in the region further said that Syrian air defenses were activated across four provinces including Latakia and Tartus on the coast, as well as over Homs and Hama which are more inland.

The initial major strike on Latakia, located on the Syrian coast, reportedly targeted a Syrian Scientific Research Center (SSRC) facility, and newly published video and images from Syrian sources show massive fireballs lighting up the sky.




https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1029128116759916544/42joSucb_bigger.jpg (https://twitter.com/maytham956) maytham‏ @maytham956 (https://twitter.com/maytham956)

#Syrian_Air_Defenses (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Syrian_Air_Defenses?src=hash) #Tartous (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Tartous?src=hash) #Syria (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Syria?src=hash)


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnUs799XgAEykvM.jpg


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnUs8NiX0AAuBj_.jpg


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnUs8Y2WwAQDt00.jpg
1:37 PM - 17 Sep 2018
2 replies 37 retweets 24 likes But significantly the location of the strike is in the vicinity of Russia's Hmeymim airbase, and there are early unconfirmed reports that Russia engaged the inbound assault via its advanced S-400 system.

According to the Middle East Institute's Charles Lister (https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/1041786704628080640), "Reports suggest Russia air defenses in Hmeymim participated in attempting to repel tonight's strikes in Latakia."

Lister continued, "*IF* that's true, that'd be a significant development. Some reports also say strikes came from sea; leading to accusations of a U.S naval cruise missile attack."

Unconfirmed local eyewitness accounts say that two hostile aircraft were shot down during the lengthy assault.

A number of videos are circulating on Syrian social media which purport to show successful Syria or Russian missile defense intercepts during the sustained attacks.

As yet, there's been no confirmation of who carried out the attack; however, a report early this month cited Tel Aviv sources who confirmed that Israel's Air Force has conducted 200 attacks on locations inside Syria over the course of the past 2 years alone, according to Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-israel-syria-iran/israel-says-struck-iranian-targets-in-syria-200-times-in-last-two-years-idUSKCN1LK2D7).

The major escalation comes just after Russia's Vladimir Putin and his Turkish counterpart Recep Tayyip Erdogan met Monday to announce that a demilitarized zone in Idlib will be formed by October 15.

Developing...

More from RT (https://www.rt.com/news/438665-missile-attack-latakia-syria/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=push_notifications&utm_campaign=push_notifications):
Syrian port city Latakia 'attacked by missiles from sea' - local media

Syrian air defenses have engaged missiles targeting the area of Latakia, a city in the coastal province that is the home of Russia's Khmeimim Air Base. Seven people were reportedly injured in the attack.

According to the state SANA news agency, the attack targeted the Technical Industries Agency headquarters in Latakia, owned by the Syrian military. Reports from the area refer to "powerful explosions" heard in the city. According to Syrian military sources, the strikes also targeted a power station and an aluminum factory.

The attack began around 10 pm local time. Photos posted on social media show tracers and missile plumes streaking across the night sky above Latakia, as well as several explosions.

Air defense activity was also reported in Homs and Tartous provinces, where Russia maintains a naval base.

Syrian media report that a "number of missiles" have been shot down. Multiple reports from the area speak of an attack by missiles launched from drones. It is unclear whether only the Syrian air defense batteries have been engaged, or if the Russian air defenses around Khmeimim are taking part as well.

Seven people were injured in the attacks, Ahmad Kazem of the Syrian Human Rights Network told RIA Novosti.

Multiple local reports have accused Israel of launching the strikes, but there has been no independent confirmation of that. Another possibility suggested by local media is that the drone attack came from the jihadists in Idlib. SANA reported the missiles targeting Latakia came "from the sea," citing military sources.

The attack comes just hours after Russia and Turkey negotiated (https://www.rt.com/news/438652-putin-erdogan-syria-idlib-demilitarized/) a partial demilitarization of the Idlib province, which is the last remaining stronghold of anti-government militants, including the Al-Qaeda affiliate Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (also known as the Jabhat Al-Nusra). Update 1: Sputnik reports (https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201809181068115950-russia-registered-missile-launches/?utm_source=https://t.co/ObgiEPBhBV&utm_medium=short_url&utm_content=j8wJ&utm_campaign=URL_shortening) missile launch from French frigate in Mediterranean:
Russian airspace control means registered missile launches from French frigate in Mediterranean late on Monday, Russian military reported.

Russian defence ministry said that Russian airspace controls means have detected several missile launches from French frigate in Mediterranean late on Monday.

Syrian media reported a missile attack on the coastal city of Latakia Monday evening. Some missiles hit parts of the city, according to local media, many of them were reportedly downed by Syrian air defense systems.

Earlier in the day, Russia and Turkey (https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201809171068090843-turkey-russia-syria-idlib-terrorists/) reached an agreement over a partial demilitarization of the Idlib province, which is the last remaining stronghold of anti-government insurgency and al-Qaeda-linked terror groups in Syria. Update 2: RT reports disappearance of Russian aircraft (https://www.rt.com/news/438673-russian-il20-disappears-radars/) from radar during attack:
A Russian military Il-20 aircraft with 14 service members on board went off the radars during an attack by four Israeli jets on Syria's Latakia province, the Russian Defense Ministry said.

Air traffic controllers at the Khmeimim Air Base "lost contact" with the aircraft on Wednesday evening, during the attack of Israeli F-16 fighters on Latakia, said the MOD.

Russian radars also registered the launch of missiles from a French frigate in the Mediterranean on the evening of September 17.

Fourteen people were on board the plane at the time of the disappearance. A search and rescue mission is underway.

An hour-long attack on Latakia began around 10 pm local time, and targeted a power station as well as two facilities belonging to the Syrian military. Syrian officials said the attack was "foreign" and came "from the sea," but could not initially confirm rumors that Israel was behind it.

The attack on Latakia came just hours after Russia and Turkey negotiated (https://www.rt.com/news/438652-putin-erdogan-syria-idlib-demilitarized/) a partial demilitarization of the Idlib province, which is the last remaining stronghold of anti-government militants, including the Al-Qaeda affiliate Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (also known as the Jabhat Al-Nusra).
==========================================

Apparently, there was no need for any alleged chemical purported attacks...

[ichingcarpenter]

And this coincidence struck me....not

Russia and Turkey agree on Demilitarized Zone in Idlib today ........ meanwhile missiles from the west



lLuLsd891J8

[shaberon]

On France24, they are denying involvement. So no one admits to it. Will be interesting to see how that unfolds especially with loss of a Russian plane at the same time.

Yes, I think the state actors are going to do whatever they want regardless of a chemical attack or if it is exposed.

According to Fars and Sputnik, this includes the U. S. getting out of Al Tanf: http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13970626000943

Which sounds a little strange considering how much was just added to the area, so we'll see.

These missiles were obviously not the little ones the guys fly in on drones every few days, and one picture suggests the final bump and possibly first stage detonation a frigate launched cruise missile would do after flying at low altitude, and it's possible that one or more Zionists are lying about doing it.

[Eric J (Viking)]

https://www.rt.com/news/438686-syria-russia-s200-il20/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=push_notifications&utm_campaign=push_notifications

Russian Il-20 downed by Syrian missile after attacking Israel’s F-16s used it as cover – Russian MoD


Edit

The Russian military accused their Israeli counterparts for causing the shot-down of a Russian Il-20 plane by the Syrian air defense forces, which were responding to an Israeli air raid on Latakia.
The Israeli Air Force launched their surprise night attack on Latakia in a way that put the Russian plane in harm’s way, the Russian Ministry of Defense said in a statement. They must have known they were setting up the Russian plane to be hit by a Syrian counter-attack, but neither changed their approach to targets in Syria nor gave Russia enough time to move the Il-20 to a safe area.

“We consider these provocative actions by Israel as hostile. Fifteen Russian military service members have died because of the irresponsible actions of the Israeli military. This is absolutely contrary to the spirit of the Russian-Israeli partnership,” the statement stressed. “We reserve the right for an adequate response.”

DETAILS TO FOLLOW

Viking

[WhiteFeather]

One of the main contributors to the economy in Syria is its energy industry. Along with crude oil fields, Syria is home to a wealth of natural gas reserves. The fields are estimated to contain 8.5 trillion cubic feet ofnatural gas. It is one of Syria's richest natural resources

[Hervé]

Russian military plane downed by Syrian missile after attacking Israel's F-16s used it as cover (https://www.rt.com/news/438686-syria-russia-s200-il20/)

RT (https://www.rt.com/news/438686-syria-russia-s200-il20/)
Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:34 UTC


https://www.sott.net/image/s24/488640/large/israeli_jet.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s24/488640/full/israeli_jet.jpg)
An Israeli Air Force F-16 fighter jet. © Baz Ratner / Reuters


The Russian military say the Israeli raid on Syria triggered a chain of events, which led to the shooting down of a Russian Il-20 plane by a Syrian S-200 surface-to-air missile. Moscow reserves the right to respond accordingly.

On Monday evening four Israeli F-16 fighter jets attacked targets in Syria's Latakia after approaching from the Mediterranean, a statement by the Russian defense ministry said on Tuesday. The Israeli warplanes came at a low altitude and "created a dangerous situation for other aircraft and vessels in the region", it said.


YEioP7zJzMc

The military said the French Navy's frigate "Auvergne" as well as a Russian Il-20 (https://www.rt.com/news/438673-russian-il20-disappears-radars/) plane were in the area of the Israeli operation.
"The Israeli pilots used the Russian plane as cover and set it up to be targeted by the Syrian air defense forces. As a consequence, the Il-20, which has radar cross-section much larger than the F-16, was shot down by an S-200 system missile," the statement said.

https://www.sott.net/image/s24/488639/full/syria_map.jpg
Map of the incident on September 17 in Syria provided by the Russian defense ministry.


The Russian ministry stressed that the Israelis must have known that the Russian plane was present in the area, which didn't stop them from "the provocation". Israel also failed to warn Russia about the planned operation in advance. The warning came a minute before the attack started, which "did not leave time to move the Russian plane to a safe area," the statement said.

The latest statement gives a larger death toll than earlier reports by the Russian military, which said there were 14 crew members onboard the missing Il-20. It said a search and rescue operation for the shot-down plane continued.

Israel did not comment on the reports about the air raid in Syria which is consistent with its usual policy on such matters. Israeli officials earlier acknowledged hundreds of airstrikes (https://www.rt.com/news/437647-israel-strikes-syria-iran/) conducted in Syria over the past years. Israel claims its interventions are necessary to fight Iranian presence in the neighboring country.

Related:

Syria hit with massive sustained attack: Russian S-400 defenses possibly active In huge escalation (https://www.sott.net/article/396194-Syria-hit-with-massive-sustained-attack-Russian-S-400-defenses-possibly-active-In-huge-escalation-UPDATES)
As the West threatens to escalate war against Syria, Israel bombs target near Damascus (https://www.sott.net/article/396197-As-the-West-threatens-to-escalate-war-against-Syria-Israel-bombs-target-near-Damascus)


-----------------------------------------------


UPDATE: Russia has formally complained (https://www.rt.com/news/438690-russia-israel-il20-blame/) to Israel about the incident, laying the blame "squarely on the Israeli side":
Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu spoke to his Israeli counterpart Avigdor Lieberman on the phone about the downing of the Russian Il-20 plane on Monday night. He relayed Moscow's position on the incident, which blames the Israeli military for setting up the Russian plane to be shot down by Syrian air defenses responding to an Israeli air raid, an official statement from the Russian military said.

Shoigu reiterated that Israel failed to notify Russia of the impending attack in a way that would give the Russian military to move the Il-20 out of harm's way. Instead the warning came one minute before the Israeli F-16 fighter jets launched their attack.
"The blame for the downing of the Russian plane and the deaths of its crew members lies squarely on the Israeli side," the Russian minister said.

"The actions of the Israeli military were not in keeping with the spirit of the Russian-Israeli partnership, so we reserve the right to respond."

-----------------------------------------------
SOTT Comment: (https://www.sott.net/article/396201-Russian-military-plane-downed-by-Syrian-missile-after-attacking-Israels-F-16s-used-it-as-cover)

"The Israeli pilots used the Russian plane as cover and set it up to be targeted by the Syrian air defense forces" This is indeed very typical of Israel, setting someone else up to take the hit for something Israel did.

We can also draw a parallel with IDF forces in Palestine using Palestinians as human shields. Here the people on the Russian plane were used as human shields.

This comes after a night of Israeli bombardment of targets in Syria including Latakia, Tartus, Homs and Hama - with rockets and explosions lighting up the sky especially over the coastal towns. According to the Middle East Institute's Charles Lister, "Reports suggest Russia air defenses in Hmeymim participated in attempting to repel tonight's strikes in Latakia." That would suggest the S-400s stationed there may have been involved.

This morning's shoot down of the Russian spy plane happened as it was, possibly, helping Syrian air defenses to target the missiles fired by the Israeli jets, and possibly the jets themselves (although the Russian Min of Def. says the plane was coming in to land). It's doubtful, however, that the Russians would provoke the Israelis by deliberately targeting their jets, although there is the possibility of plausible deniability that, if that were to happen, it was the Syrian's simply defending themselves.

The "fog of war" they call it.

Whatever the case, the Russians will likely use this, not to 'lash out' at Israel but rather to put pressure on the Israelis to stop their attacks on Syria, which ultimately are in support of jihadi terrorists.

Israel, run by cowards and psychopaths, still has not even commented on the strike. That's the way they roll. Americans at least try to come up with excuses and rationalizations before they bomb foreign nations. Israel just bombs them, then refuses to comment. They are a lawless nation - arrogant, belligerent, and without conscience.

[mountain_jim]

Israel, run by cowards and psychopaths, still has not even commented on the strike. That's the way they roll. Americans at least try to come up with excuses and rationalizations before they bomb foreign nations. Israel just bombs them, then refuses to comment. They are a lawless nation - arrogant, belligerent, and without conscience.

Exactly the view I have come to hold after many years of evidence.

And the number of dual-citizens in the US political system and many other influences allows this lawless nation to influence US policy and actions in many destructive ways.

Mossad + US neocons = 9/11.

[Foxie Loxie]

IMO there should be NO(0) dual citizenship members in the House or Senate. Money talks, right?!! :cash::cash:

Love your reasoning mountain_jim!! :highfive:

[Eric J (Viking)]

I can't believe there's nothing on mainstream...:silent:

Or maybe I can. :angry:

Viking

[Deux Corbeaux]

And this coincidence struck me....not

Russia and Turkey agree on Demilitarized Zone in Idlib today ........ meanwhile missiles from the west



lLuLsd891J8


A week ago Erdogan said Turkey could no longer take in any more refugees from any new assault in Idlib........

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/Russia-opposes-turkeys-call-for-truce-in-syria-idlib-62819

Nor could Europe !

[Flash]

Yes nothing in French of France newspapers either.

We have to go east, in order to have some different news. So I went to the Hurriett newspaper of Turkey, English version, and a soft news about this has been found (American please, read foreign newspapers, you will have some news):

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/russian-military-aircraft-vanishes-near-syria-during-israeli-french-strikes-136959


Russia says Syria shot down one of its military planes, blames Israel
MOSCOW/WASHINGTON – Reuters
Russia says Syria shot down one of its military planes, blames Israel
Russia’s Ministry of Defense said on Sept. 18 that the Syrian military had accidentally shot down a Russian military plane over Syria, but said it blamed the incident on Israel, the RIA news agency reported.

The ministry accused Israeli military planes of deliberately creating a “dangerous” situation near the Syrian city of Latakia - which is close to a Russian air base where it said the Il-20 aircraft was preparing to land, RIA reported.

The Ministry of Defense said 15 Russian military service people had died because of what it described as Israel’s irresponsible actions. It said Israel had only warned it one minute before launching the strikes.

A Russian military aircraft vanished from radar screens over Syria at the same time as Israeli and French forces were launching strikes on targets in Syria, Russia said on Sept. 18.

A U.S. official said Washington believed the aircraft, an Il-20 turbo-prop plane used for electronic reconnaissance, was inadvertently shot down by anti-aircraft artillery operated by Moscow’s ally, the Syrian government.

Around the time the plane disappeared, the Syrian coastal city of Latakia - near a Russian airbase to which the Il-20 was returning - came under attack from “enemy missiles”, and missile defense batteries responded, Syrian state media reported.

France denied any involvement in the plane’s disappearance.

The defense ministry in Moscow said the aircraft was returning to the Russian-run Hmeymim airbase when, at about 11:00 p.m. Moscow time on Sept. 17, it lost radar contact.

The plane was over the Mediterranean Sea about 35 km (20 miles) from the Syrian coastline, Russia’s TASS news agency quoted the ministry as saying in a statement.

“The trace of the Il-20 on flight control radars disappeared during an attack by four Israeli F-16 jets on Syrian facilities in Latakia province,” the statement was quoted as saying.

“At the same time Russian air control radar systems detected rocket launches from the French frigate Auvergne which was located in that region.”

Israel’s military declined to comment.

“We deny any involvement,” Colonel Patrik Steiger, a spokesman for France’s military, told Reuters.

Russia’s military operation in Syria, which began in late 2015, has turned the tide of the conflict in favor of Moscow’s ally, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, in his fight against rebels.

But it has come at a cost to Russia.

In December 2016, a Russian plane carrying dozens of Red Army choir singers, dancers and musicians crashed into the Black Sea on the way to Syria, killing all 92 people on board.



In March this year, a Russian military transport plane crashed when coming in to land at the Hmeymim base, killing all 39 people on board.

Several countries have military operations underway around Syria, with forces on the ground or launching strikes from the air or from ships in the Mediterranean. In some cases, those countries are backing opposing sides in the Syrian conflict.

The United States, France and Britain launched scores of missiles at the heart of Syria’s chemical weapons program in April in retaliation for a suspected poison attack.

The French frigate Aquitaine was involved in those strikes.

[Deux Corbeaux]

In this video, Luke Rudkowski of WeAreChange gives you the latest breaking news on the breaking news of a Russian military spy plane being shot down recently which many people believe was carried out by Israel and France. Meanwhile, CNN and Ryan Browne are reporting a different story from an anonymous U.S official.



https://dlive.io/video/lukewearechange/d56b7239-baed-11e8-8f16-0242ac110003


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c3wuT8S0j8

[Bob]

Yes nothing in French of France newspapers either.

We have to go east, in order to have some different news. So I went to the Hurriett newspaper of Turkey, English version, and a soft news about this has been found (American please, read foreign newspapers, you will have some news):

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/russian-military-aircraft-vanishes-near-syria-during-israeli-french-strikes-136959


Russia says Syria shot down one of its military planes, blames Israel
MOSCOW/WASHINGTON – Reuters
Russia says Syria shot down one of its military planes, blames Israel
Russia’s Ministry of Defense said on Sept. 18 that the Syrian military had accidentally shot down a Russian military plane over Syria, but said it blamed the incident on Israel, the RIA news agency reported.

The ministry accused Israeli military planes of deliberately creating a “dangerous” situation near the Syrian city of Latakia - which is close to a Russian air base where it said the Il-20 aircraft was preparing to land, RIA reported.

The Ministry of Defense said 15 Russian military service people had died because of what it described as Israel’s irresponsible actions. It said Israel had only warned it one minute before launching the strikes.

A Russian military aircraft vanished from radar screens over Syria at the same time as Israeli and French forces were launching strikes on targets in Syria, Russia said on Sept. 18.

A U.S. official said Washington believed the aircraft, an Il-20 turbo-prop plane used for electronic reconnaissance, was inadvertently shot down by anti-aircraft artillery operated by Moscow’s ally, the Syrian government.

Around the time the plane disappeared, the Syrian coastal city of Latakia - near a Russian airbase to which the Il-20 was returning - came under attack from “enemy missiles”, and missile defense batteries responded, Syrian state media reported.

France denied any involvement in the plane’s disappearance.

The defense ministry in Moscow said the aircraft was returning to the Russian-run Hmeymim airbase when, at about 11:00 p.m. Moscow time on Sept. 17, it lost radar contact.

The plane was over the Mediterranean Sea about 35 km (20 miles) from the Syrian coastline, Russia’s TASS news agency quoted the ministry as saying in a statement.

“The trace of the Il-20 on flight control radars disappeared during an attack by four Israeli F-16 jets on Syrian facilities in Latakia province,” the statement was quoted as saying.

“At the same time Russian air control radar systems detected rocket launches from the French frigate Auvergne which was located in that region.”

Israel’s military declined to comment.

“We deny any involvement,” Colonel Patrik Steiger, a spokesman for France’s military, told Reuters.

Russia’s military operation in Syria, which began in late 2015, has turned the tide of the conflict in favor of Moscow’s ally, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, in his fight against rebels.

But it has come at a cost to Russia.

In December 2016, a Russian plane carrying dozens of Red Army choir singers, dancers and musicians crashed into the Black Sea on the way to Syria, killing all 92 people on board.



In March this year, a Russian military transport plane crashed when coming in to land at the Hmeymim base, killing all 39 people on board.

Several countries have military operations underway around Syria, with forces on the ground or launching strikes from the air or from ships in the Mediterranean. In some cases, those countries are backing opposing sides in the Syrian conflict.

The United States, France and Britain launched scores of missiles at the heart of Syria’s chemical weapons program in April in retaliation for a suspected poison attack.

The French frigate Aquitaine was involved in those strikes.

That matches what RT video ch 321 (DirecTV Satellite) is saying.. Their reporters are saying Israel coordinated with the US, and (it, the hiding behind a Russian aircraft) and 'that' was supposed to send a message to "Russia". I didn't hear what the assumed 'message' was supposed to be, any interpretation of that?

[Flash]

No Bob, no interpretation that I have seen yet.

turkish newspapers must only report facts, no opinions, being in a sandwich position.

However, I was not aware of the French, US and British attack in April in retaliation for presumed chemical attacks. Either I missed it, or we were never told by the media.

Turkey is in a difficult position, between the US and Russia, plus the fact that the US has tried to overthrow their government 2 years ago, government that has been re-elected last year (you have to not know Turks to try to overthrow their government, even if most do not approve Erdogan, they will re-elect him just to make sure American do not try again to control them).

[shaberon]

Ah, ok. Israel admits it, or got caught after their denial, but at the same time, it is everyone else's fault according to them. Pretty obvious they used the Il-20 as cover for exactly this purpose.

It didn't affect Syrian momentum, instead, Russia gets one degree tougher.

The April attack was mostly theater as the targets were designated by Russia and mostly abandoned and gave the U. S. an opportunity to lie about their effectiveness, whereas Russia received Tomahawk cruise missiles intact and has reverse engineered them. Israeli attacks are more genuine and do cause damage to the extent they succeed. Israel's only real message appears to be proving themself as war mongering thugs and increasingly being rejected by the rest of the world.

The Auvergne might slip out of this somewhat unaffected, but, should it like to be targeted, Syria has enough anti-ship missiles to scuttle it at will. Having been in a line with Israeli and Russian planes, it is hard to say for sure if it participated, radar and targeting can get mis-aligned, as it obviously picked the wrong thing to shoot down. I don't think Russia is kidding about blaming Israel for the loss, no matter how many weasel words and deflections are spewed out.

[norman]

It could be an inside (in the know) tit-for-tat between Israel and Russia.


Allegedly, Russia sank an Israeli submarine in 2013.

[ThePythonicCow]

According to some sites, most of which I have not heard of before, Russia and Syria are increasing their resolve against Israel:

Syria Imposes New Rules of Engagement on Israel (UpRootedPalestinians) (https://uprootedpalestinians.blogspot.com/2018/05/syria-imposes-new-rules-of-engagement.html)
RUSSIA IMPOSES “NO-FLY” ZONE FOR ISRAELI MILITARY AIRCRAFT AROUND SYRIA (Whistleblower Jeff) (http://whistleblowerjeff.holyspiritwind.net/2018/09/19/this-is-huge-russia-imposes-no-fly-zone-for-israeli-military-aircraft-around-syria/)
Russia Imposes No-Fly Zone For Israel Around Syria (CoercionCode) (https://coercioncode.com/2018/09/20/russia-imposes-no-fly-zone-for-israel-around-syria/)
Russia to beef up air defenses, aircraft to curtail Israeli air operations in Syria (Whistleblower Jeff) (http://whistleblowerjeff.holyspiritwind.net/2018/09/19/russia-to-beef-up-air-defenses-aircraft-to-curtail-israeli-air-operations-in-syria/)
RUSSIA IMPOSES "NO-FLY" ZONE FOR ISRAELI MILITARY AIRCRAFT AROUND SYRIA (Hal Turner) (http://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/news/world-news/3173-russia-imposes-no-fly-zone-for-israeli-military-aircraft-around-syria)
IRAN 747 IN THE AIR RIGHT NOW BRINGING S-300 ANTI-AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS TO SYRIA ! (Hal Turner) (http://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/news/world-news/3173-russia-imposes-no-fly-zone-for-israeli-military-aircraft-around-syria)

If these sites are correct (I don't know their reliability) then Russia and Syria are imposing a no-fly zone over Syria, below 19,000 feet, and bringing in Russia's more advanced S-300 anti-aircraft systems to Syria, which will quickly improve Syria's ability to defend it's airspace against unwanted intrusions (such as bombing from Israel).

Israel is not known for meekly backing down from a fight. If Israel considers the presence of Russia's S-300 systems in Syria to be an "existential threat", then Israel has only a few days to act, with extreme violence, to stop this S-300 deployment.

This could get nasty (nastier) in the near future.

[ThePythonicCow]

Israel is not known for meekly backing down from a fight. If Israel considers the presence of Russia's S-300 systems in Syria to be an "existential threat", then Israel has only a few days to act, with extreme violence, to stop this S-300 deployment.

This could get nasty (nastier) in the near future.
Ken over at http://redefininggod.com/ reminds us to:
be on the lookout for an “Iranian” provocation between now and Trump’s Security Council meeting on the 26th. It would likely be an Israel-targeting false-flag like the “cruise missiles out of Yemen / ballistic missiles out of Iraq” op.
In other words, as sure as the sun rises in the east, if Israel decides that extreme violence is called for, they will start it with a false flag, and in the present circumstances, I'd expect that Iran would be the one that Israel tried to frame with that false flag.

[ThePythonicCow]

Meanwhile, Fort Russ News (https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/true-unconfirmed-report-russian-navy-has-closed-the-eastern-mediterranean-map/) has an unconfirmed report that, in addition to the no fly zones (see my above Post #17 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104330-Syria-Hit-With-Massive-Sustained-Attack-from-Sea-2018-09-17&p=1249465&viewfull=1#post1249465)), Russia has also closed off portions of the eastern Mediterranean around Cypress and the nearby Syrian coast.

In response to the what Putin has called a ‘tragic incident’ that caused the death of the crew of the radio reconnaissance aircraft and the IL-20 VKS RF warhead, Rusvesna reports that the Russian military has made a major move.

Effective September 19th, the Russian Federation has announced the closure of a large area of ​​the eastern Mediterranean for the movement of military aircraft and ships until the 26th of September.

According to the official version, this step is justified by the beginning of unscheduled maneuvers of the navy and aviation off the coast of Syria.

[ThePythonicCow]

However, Israel seems to be in the midst of what might be a major shift from close ties with the Anglo-American empire, to closer ties with Russia and China.

Over just the last few days, several websites, including Newsweek, Haaretz, YNet News, Veterans Today, the Jerusalem Post, and The Times of Israel (https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/china-the-port-of-haifa-and-mideast-peace/) have reported that China has begun construction of new port facilities in Israel's major port city of Haifa, which is close to the northern end of Israel's coastline, not far from Lebanon and Syria. China has a deal to operate Haifa port facilities for 25 years, under full Chinese control, from 2021 until 2046, as part of the development of their Belt Road Initiative. This deal was originally signed between China and Israel about two years ago, and in this last week, Chinese construction firms have begun development of major new port facilities in Haifa as part of this project.

Also I recall reports last month that China was increasing its military support of Assad's regime in Syria.

Perhaps what we are seeing unfolding is a lot of drama, and but not so much a major escalation in actual military conflict, as the Rothschild's Israel shifts alliances from the Rockefeller dominated Anglo-American empire, to the Eurasian families and empires.

If so, then it would not surprise me to see the political career of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin "Bibi" Netanyahu come to a conclusion in the not too distant future, perhaps after an embarrassing military misadventure. Bibi strikes me as being more of the CIA-Bush-Clinton-McCain-Rockefeller-Saudi-ISIS-Wahhabi mold, and that mold seems to be experiencing some serious stress fractures of late.

[ThePythonicCow]

Here's more detail on what the Israeli F-16 jets where bombing, when the Russian II-20 intelligence airplane was shot down in the cross fire.

Apparently, Israel considers it within its authority to bomb Syrian army facilities “from which weapons-manufacturing systems were supposed to be transferred to Iran and Hezbollah.”

From RT.com (https://www.rt.com/news/438876-israel-satellite-latakia-strike/):

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Satellite pics show Syria strike as Israeli Air Force chief goes to Moscow to explain Il-20 incident

Published time: 19 Sep, 2018 23:51

https://cdni.rt.com/files/2018.09/article/5ba2d733dda4c8b73e8b45f6.jpg
Timely released satellite images have revealed the destruction left by IDF air strikes in Syria’s Latakia after Israel was forced to make a rare admission to the raid which resulted in the downing of the Russian Il-20 recon plane.

On Wednesday, Israeli satellite imaging company ImageSat released three photos of an “ammunition warehouse” in Latakia, showing it before and after the Monday night attack. The three photos, posted on Twitter, show the building was completely destroyed in the strike.

Israel does not normally acknowledge its airstrikes in Syria, at least not until much later. However, the IDF made a rare immediate admission of responsibility on Tuesday, after the Russian Defense Ministry identified Israeli F-16 jets as taking part in the attack, and said the Il-20 aerial observation platform vanished from radars during the strike.

Moscow criticized Israel for not providing advance warning of the raid and said the Israeli jets used the Russian plane to mask their approach. Targeting the Israelis, Syrian air defenses fired the missile that shot down the Il-20 instead.

The IDF rushed to explain that their airstrikes targeted a Syrian army facility “from which weapons-manufacturing systems were supposed to be transferred to Iran and Hezbollah.” On Tuesday, the IDF expressed“sorrow” for the deaths of Russian airmen, but once again said the responsibility lies with the “Assad regime.”

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu quickly phoned Russian President Vladimir Putin to express his condolences and offered to send his air force chief to Russia with a detailed report.

Major-General Amikam Norkin will arrive in Moscow on Thursday, and will present the situation report on the incident, including “the findings of the IDF inquiry regarding the event,” and the “pre-mission information” the Israeli military was so reluctant to share in advance.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Foxie Loxie]

Thanks for all the great analysis, Paul!! :highfive: It appears The World at Large is in a state of transition!!

:bigsmile: Let's hang on for the ride!!

[shaberon]

When this first happened they mostly mentioned France, and Israel a bit of a background rumor.

As far as I know, they are standing behind the statement that France participated.

Part of Israel's claim is that it's fighters were gone when the Il-20 was hit. And I think in the timeline, this was about twenty minutes after the first wave of attacks. Syrian military originally denied the strike, and some of the commentary suggests that it was shot down by the Auvergne and that the defensive S200 story is a cover. So it's one of those things that could be worth seeing on a minute to minute basis.

On the Israeli part, yes, that is what they do whenever they can get away with it. Maybe they will slow down now.

[shaberon]

Part of the noise I mentioned is for example Zerohedge (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-19/decoding-putins-response-attack-syria) suggests that 1. France denied it and 2. The U. S. blamed the S200 defense, both before Russia said anything about the incident. From what I saw, France denied it within the same article that reported it.

Dances with Bears (http://johnhelmer.org/?p=17934) suggests that something like Il-20 was most likely a well known routine path reported a week in advance and that the Syrians should know about it.

The S200 system itself could definitely do it in the case of shadowing. Its target cannot be changed once fired, but it can be tricked, if an F-16 fled from the larger plane. However, if twenty minutes had passed, there would be no reason for this. That would mean France got away with something and Israel will pay the price. Either way looks like less air force from them to go with the DMZ. Meanwhile the old one in Korea saw the two leaders end their war.

[EFO]

Syria hit with massive sustained attack: Russian S-400 defenses possibly active In huge escalation - UPDATES (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-17/massive-sustained-attack-syria-russian-s-300-defenses-possibly-active-huge)

Tyler Durden ZeroHedge (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-17/massive-sustained-attack-syria-russian-s-300-defenses-possibly-active-huge)
Mon, 17 Sep 2018 22:42 UTC


https://www.sott.net/image/s24/488609/large/Air_Defense_Syria.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s24/488609/full/Air_Defense_Syria.jpg)


[...]
==========================================

Apparently, there was no need for any alleged chemical purported attacks...

A song from 2006 that exactly predicted actual events.

Globus - Europa [Lyrics]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc56moy0poA

[shaberon]

Russia will make its report (https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/russian-defense-ministry-to-release-full-details-on-downed-il-20-aircraft/) tomorrow. It will have their minute to minute version of the details and all they have said so far is not to make a disagreement about the Israeli facts, but to reject their attitude that it was the fault of Syria, Iran, and Hezbollah. The meeting apparently was not in some dandy fashion where they were eager to hear the Israeli assertions and instead was a stone cold shoulder.

It could be that France really did it and a major escalation has been avoided, or, even that Israel was truthful about the timing and the Syrian shot was a stupid one, and neither of those will affect the Russian response.

[shaberon]

They didn't say anything else about France, so, perhaps they save some face because last time when they fired from the Aquitaine, two of their missiles failed.

There will be a no-fly zone in Latakia, which is of marginal value, since most air attacks come from outside. The more provocative step is to deploy S300 all over Syria. This is a significant upgrade to air defense fire power. The U. S., unhappy about that, now plans to stick around and fight Iranians and other elements.

The Russian data shows the Israeli planes making a second pass and they had a group of three and then a single plane which moved close to the Il-20, which caused it to be hit by the S200. Israel denies it, but, I have not seen any other data that would indicate the scenario was anything other than what the Russians say, which apparently is what the U. S. said, and if Syria originally denied it, that is true to the extent they did not target the Il-20 and were not responsible for the maneuver of the F-16 which tricked a missile they were unable to communicate with.

Israel plans to continue its attacks.

[norman]

My guess is that during the heated arguments back at Russian air command, they were regretting not shooting those Israeli jets out of the sky on sight.


They were probably trying to be nice. I doubt they will be next time.

[Foxie Loxie]

Sorry....I keep thinking about what Edgar Cayce said...that Russia would save the world? :confused: Maybe that's part of what just happened?

[shaberon]

My guess is that during the heated arguments back at Russian air command, they were regretting not shooting those Israeli jets out of the sky on sight.


They were probably trying to be nice. I doubt they will be next time.

Yes, it seems a big part in the Russian strategy is showing on the world stage that they are straightforward, fair, and also very patient. A country of that size could easily swing its fist and wreck the area, but, for instance, we see that they did not attack Turkey when it shot down a plane, and now their relations are normalizing. They do have an undercurrent of people who think they ought to retaliate fast and hard, but, they are kind of on the side of Israel, Turkey, and Syria at the same time, at least desiring normal relations, with the only real enemy being conflict.

It is hard to see anyone else besides Russia as being the bridge from East to West. It's sort of a rolling farce to watch how they provide this S300 system to places like Syria, Turkey, India...each time they do, the U. S. had a fit, gnashes teeth and starts issuing threats and ultimatums. Just in the last day or two, the world assembly actually laughed at the U. S. person talking at the U. N. or somewhere. I don't think I've ever heard of that happening before. But there is a major sea change against Anglo-American-Zionist-Wahhabism that keeps getting bigger and easier to find. There's little voices coming out to say "no", losing their fears and laughing.

[norman]

If France shot down that Russian plane, there should be a NATO meeting to review France's status within the NATO alliance.


France is a very socialist country and currently run by a socialist Rothschild stooge. Having trouble makers within the alliance should be a high priority for being dealt with. I hope there is a lot of back channel disciplin being applied.

[Ba-ba-Ra]

If France shot down that Russian plane, there should be a NATO meeting to review France's status within the NATO alliance.


France is a very socialist country and currently run by a socialist Rothschild stooge. Having trouble makers within the alliance should be a high priority for being dealt with. I hope there is a lot of back channel disciplin being applied.

If only that would/could happen Norman.

But who is in charge of NATO?

[norman]

If France shot down that Russian plane, there should be a NATO meeting to review France's status within the NATO alliance.


France is a very socialist country and currently run by a socialist Rothschild stooge. Having trouble makers within the alliance should be a high priority for being dealt with. I hope there is a lot of back channel disciplin being applied.

If only that would/could happen Norman.

But who is in charge of NATO?


The safest thing for everybody, right now, is for Trump to follow his instinct and remove the US from NATO. That will sober up the beta warriors. NATO is packed with enemies. I'm not even proud of the British behaviour. Id rather see Trump get on top of the situation without the liabilities that NATO is, and reform something appropriate later when the enemies have been removed.

[Foxie Loxie]

Isn't NATO a WWII leftover? Why does the U.S. need to keep sinking $$$ into it?!(or the UN for that matter!) :bigsmile:

[norman]

Isn't NATO a WWII leftover? Why does the U.S. need to keep sinking $$$ into it?!(or the UN for that matter!) :bigsmile:


It's a Cold War leftover.


Like Europe, it's been over expanded. It includes countries that are not committed to the right side of this current split of ideologies.


The irony, Russia ( the cold war foe ) is on the right side. Turkey, Germany and France ( all NATO members ) are shaping up to be on the wrong side.

[Flash]

If France shot down that Russian plane, there should be a NATO meeting to review France's status within the NATO alliance.


France is a very socialist country and currently run by a socialist Rothschild stooge. Having trouble makers within the alliance should be a high priority for being dealt with. I hope there is a lot of back channel disciplin being applied.

If only that would/could happen Norman.

But who is in charge of NATO?


The safest thing for everybody, right now, is for Trump to follow his instinct and remove the US from NATO. That will sober up the beta warriors. NATO is packed with enemies. I'm not even proud of the British behaviour. Id rather see Trump get on top of the situation without the liabilities that NATO is, and reform something appropriate later when the enemies have been removed.

To people from outside USA, it is USA that has to sober up and stop creating wars all over. And maybe UK....

(please note that I do not think that Russia or China would be better, they are as war like).

[ThePythonicCow]

To people from outside USA, it is USA that has to sober up and stop creating wars all over.
To some of us people inside the USA too :).

Do notice however that Syria seems closer to having control of its territory than it has had in a decade, and that Syria has regained control of its side of the Golan Heights that it had lost to Israel in 1967.

Perhaps the key tactical consequence of this "Attack from the Sea" on Syria nine days ago now will be a substantial upgrade in Syria's air defense.

Notice also that North and South Korea are closer to restoring a Korean nation, rather than the nuclearized and heavily armed divided thorn in the side of world peace that it has been since the early 1950's.

Notice also that Russia seems to have overthrown the externally injected Communist Revolution of the Soviet era, and the rape and theft of its resources and wealth by Western empowered oligarchs of the 1990's, and has regained national, Russian, strength.

Notice also that the Wahhabi and Muslim Brotherhood control of Saudi wealth, a major support leg of the Petro-Dollar and of the Anglo-American-Zionist-Terrorist empire, took a huge hit last year with the arrests of, and wealth confiscation from, many Saudi Royals.

[Hervé]

HOW WE KNOW THE IL-20 WAS SHOT DOWN BY FRANCE OR the UK (https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/how-we-know-the-il-20-was-shot-down-by-france-or-the-uk/)

By 'FB' - FRN Guest Author (https://www.fort-russ.com/author/guestauthor/)
Published on: Sep 26, 2018 @ 22:26 –
Last updated Sep 27, 2018
The following is an excellent walk-through of most all the elements at play; technical, spatial, theoretical, and geopolitical which by itself makes an excellent case of the hypothesis that it was France or the UK - the view of ‘FB’ - that was the party that pulled the trigger on that fateful day which saw the downing of the IL-20. UNZ review commenter ‘FB’ delivers his tour-de-force to arrive at the same position as FRN (https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/full-analysis-russian-disinfo-campaign-blames-israel-for-il-20-plane-downing-yet-exonerates-france/). It is slightly edited to be delivered straight, so most 1st person references to the debate the essay was written in response to ( Andrei the Saker and Martyanov) have had some phrasing slightly altered in rare occasion, but nothing substantive is missing or changed. FRN has at no time disputed the idea that Israel is ‘ultimately’ responsible for the downing of the Il-20

– ed, J.Flores
*
By ‘FB’ –

I will ‘prove’ the ‘technical parameters’ that ALLOW THE S200 AND IL20 TO DEFY THE LAWS OF PHYSICS…

You see friends, Saker and especially Martyanov are full of crapola…

It is IMPOSSIBLE for an S200 which flies at 2.5 kilometers per second and would cover 100 km in just 40 seconds… to have hit an airplane that continued flying for another ~5 minutes after that close call with the flight of Israeli F16s…

Here is the infographic map released by the Russian MoD…
.

https://i.postimg.cc/brYXb99c/IL20_Crash_markup.jpg (https://i.postimg.cc/brYXb99c/IL20_Crash_markup.jpg)

The flight path of the F16s is recorded with the dashed blue line…the flight of the Ilyushin Il20 spy plane is recorded in the solid red line…[that from the MoD].

I have circled the close encounter point in yellow, with a yellow arrow pointing to it…that is the point where the F16s are supposed to have ‘hidden’ behind the radar reflection of the much bigger Ilyushin, and is the ONLYpoint at which this could possibly occur.

But the Ilyushin somehow manages to fly north for another 40 km…and even make a 90 degree east turn to come in to land at Hmeimim … a total flight time of around FIVE MINUTES.

BUT the S200 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-200_(missile)#Missiles) cannot fly for FIVE MINUTES, it is one of the fastest SAM rockets in the world, with a flight speed of 2.5 kilometers per second and would cover 100 kilometers in JUST 40 SECONDS.

Its maximum flight time is 150 SECONDS [2.5 MINUTES], IN WHICH TIME IT WOULD COVER ITS MAXIMUM DISTANCE OF 375 KM.

PLEASE TELL US HOW THIS IS POSSIBLE ANDREI…?

The specs of the turboprop IL20 are here.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-18#Specifications_(Il-18D))
It has a cruise speed of about ~600 km/hr, which is 10 km/minute…that’s at its cruise altitude of 8,000 meters, the MoD reported that the airplane was hit while flying at 5,000 m and on its descent to land at Hmeimim.

The MoD map clearly shows that the Ilyushin flew north for 40 km after that ‘close encounter’ with the F16s, and then made another right 90 degree turn back toward the Syria coast on its final descent back into Hmeimim.

Only after making that turn to final was the airplane hit.

So we have the airplane flying for FIVE MINUTES AFTER THAT SUPPOSED ‘RADAR MASKING’?

And the S200 which can cover 300 km in TWO MINUTES FLAT was doing what exactly for those missing THREE MINUTES?

It was maybe hovering in midair with its engine shut off…just waiting for the Ilyushin to slowly make its way to the point 40 km from the ‘radar masking’..before it decided to turn its engine back on and then come and hit the Ilyushin?

It is a matter of simple flight physics…the official story is IMPOSSIBLE.

If an s200 was even launched, it would have been from a range of probably 100 km, so it would have got to the Ilyushin in under a minute from that close encounter point.

The Ilyushin in that one minute would have been able to fly for maybe 10 km AT MOST, and would have come down where I have place the red arrow on the map.

Now I have seen many commenters here ridiculing Saker and Martyanov and that is completely warranted, Saker has no technical credentials whatsoever, in either physics or mathematics, he has made that abundantly clear over the course of hundreds of thousands of words of fluff.

Martyanov at least has a bona fide military education, but he also does not seem to think much about basic physics…he has some explaining to do here as to why he is pushing the ‘official’ story.

Folks, the fact of the matter is that ‘official’ information is often a blatant lie, we all know that, for those who have some relevant expertise in technical matters such as flight physics, it is not so easy to pull the wool over our eyes.

Remember when Turkey shot down that Russian Su24 ground attack jet in November 2015? There was a lot of discussion at the time as to the claim from the Turkish side about the Sukhoi flying through Turkish airspace for 17 seconds.

At the time PCR picked up on the debate, it revolved around the physical possibility of the Sukhoi flying that slow as to remain in Turkish airspace for so long, while covering a very short distance. The debate among the laypeople revolved around the aerodynamic ‘stall’ speed of the Sukhoi, i.e the minimum flying speed of the airplane.

I mentioned to PCR that the debate was nonsensical and explained a couple of pertinent basics of the flight physics involved, PCR encouraged me to expand that into an article, which he graciously published on his website.
(https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/12/01/an-experienced-pilot-explains-stall-speed/)
We have a similar situation here, it is important to figure out what is and what is not physically possible.

Martyyanov especially, and of course Saker, are trying to tell us here that it was all a mistake as Putin said, that the ‘old’ S200 took down a state of the art electronic warfare airplane, with 15 very highly trained specialists on board, a HUGE LOSS.

Now I will say here that Putin has a good reason to take this action and not reveal what actually happened, and I will get to that in a minute.

But let us first consider some peripheral facts surrounding this entire incident. It is probable that the downed ‘Il20′ was in fact the latest, modernized iteration of this electronic intelligence aircraft, the Il22PP, (https://www.rbth.com/defence/2016/11/09/russia-receives-first-il-22pp-porubschik-electronic-countermeasures-planes_646271) which entered into service two years ago.

This is in keeping with the MoD’s stated practice of subjecting Russia’s latest and most sophisticated weapons systems to actual combat conditions in Syria, even Putin has said that much has been learned, both good and bad, in Syria, and that fixing these deficiencies is possible only due to the opportunity to deploy these systems in Syria.

Now if we assume that this was in fact that state of the art Il22PP [we are speculating here, but it is a solid assumption], then one must ask how careful the entire Russian contingent in Syria would be with such a valuable asset?

How is it possible that while this airplane is in the air that ‘Syrian’ air defense commanders are shooting willy-nilly at a chunk of airspace where at this very moment this extremely valuable aircraft is flying?

How stupid does this sound on its face?

Now we have already proved that the ‘radar masking’ story is physically impossible, due to the respective flight speeds of the Ilyushin turboprop and the S200 rocket.

That means that the S200 would have to have been launched when THERE WAS NO RADAR MASKING…ie the Ilyushin would have been very close to the point where it was shot down, which is 40 km away from the ‘close encounter’ site.

So now we are supposed to believe that the Syrian air defense crews, which somehow are acting independently while supposedly ‘integrated’ with the Russian air defense staff, that they have now targeted the Ilyushin WHILE IT IS FLYING ALONE WITH NOTHING NEARBY?

Again, I ask Martyanov here to explain this, especially in light of his dismissive comment to others objecting here, and citing his vast knowledge of radar systems.

How is it possible that this Ilyushin was targeted by an S200 when it was nowhere near those F16s at that moment, as the laws of physics require?
https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/how-we-know-the-il-20-was-shot-down-by-france-or-the-uk/ (https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/how-we-know-the-il-20-was-shot-down-by-france-or-the-uk/)
Of course I realize that he cannot rebut these questions in any way shape or form, he is caught again with his pants down.

Now let us consider some more relevant facts on that night. The Russian MoD stated clearly two additional piece of information.
1…the French frigate Auvergne was nearby the Ilyushin flight, as depicted on the map, and was in fact recorded firing missiles…

2…British jets were also in the air, with their transponders turned on…making it possible to track them even with civilian ATC radar.
Now we also know that a number of Russian ships were in that area at the time, and still are, and are in fact this entire week conducting live fire drills, more on that in a moment.

Those ships also have sophisticated radar and also infrared sensors which picked up the missile firing from the French ship.

Besides that we have the Beriev A50U (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_A-50) AWACS aircraft in Syria..and it is safe to assume that they would have been in the air at the time of the Ilyushin flight.

At the same time, we also know that the US is flying the high altitude U2 spy plane (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_U-2) out of Akrotiri.

So there is a lot of cat and mouse going on between NATO and Russia in the area, all the more reason to seriously doubt that a Syrian S200 would shoot down such an important flight as the Ilyushin; we notice also the flight path of the Ilyushin; it first flew a circuit over Idlib, then, instead of coming in to land directly at Hmeimim, the airplane continued out over the Med for about 40 km off the coast of Syria, well outside the Syrian territorial airspace. Why?

Perhaps because the Ilyushin might have been gathering data and perhaps engaging in electronic interference of those NATO ships and aircraft in the area?

We do not know, but if it was doing something like that, the flight would have had the utmost security attached to it, it would be unthinkable for a Syrian SAM to take a shot at that airplane.

So why the ruse on the part of Putin and the Russians?

Let’s first examine who had the opportunity to down that Ilyushin. The French ship firing missiles [what kind of missiles surface to air…?…the frigate is equipped with very capable Aster SAMs.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aster_%28missile_family%29)
And also the British aircraft in the air at the time and flying out of Akrotiri, there are 9 Eurofighter Typhoons there, equipped with long range air to air AIM120 radar guided missiles, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-120_AMRAAM)and also 10 Tornados equipped with shorter range heat seeking AIM9x.

Now since we know already that the only way an S200 could have shot down the Ilyushin would be if it fired practically intentionally at a high value friendly aircraft flying with no enemy aircraft nearby, it would seem at least as probable that the missile that brought down the Ilyushin could have been fired by a French ship or a British airplane.

[The Israeli jets could not have fired at the Ilyushin, since they were flying in the opposite direction at the time the airplane was hit…and it is impossible to aim a missile at a target behind your airplane.]

At this point, having made some logical physical observations and built up a situational picture of what and who was there at the time, it seems much more likely that the French or British brought down the Ilyushin, with the Israelis playing a supporting role to cause confusion and ‘fog of war’.

Now we examine another clue, this one coming just 24 hours after the Ilyushin was shot down…namely the massive Russian live fire naval exercises in the exact area of the Med where all the action took place…here is a look at the NOTAM (http://www.mod.gov.cy/mod/CJRCC.nsf/All/5CAA2819049EC92CC225830C00573B6C?OpenDocument)published by the Cyprus Civil Aviation Authority.
.

https://i.postimg.cc/k4pvCxXF/Cyprus_Notam_markup.jpg (https://i.postimg.cc/k4pvCxXF/Cyprus_Notam_markup.jpg)

Is this air exclusion zone the Russians have enacted in a semi-ring around the RAF Akrotiri air base a clue?

I leave it to readers to make their own judgments.

Now let us consider the question of why Putin is not saying anything about possible British or French involvement in the shooting down of the valuable Ilyushin electronic warfare aircraft.

First, what purpose would it serve to now come out and accuse two NATO countries of an act of war?

Is not this kind of escalation exactly what NATO is looking to provoke in Syria?
Is Putin supposed to now declare war on NATO?

Or does it make more sense to blame Israel because Israel is the only party that can be proved to have been doing something illegal at the time, i.e bombing a sovereign country [an illegal act of aggression], and at the same time trampling all the protocol and agreements in place between Russia and Israel on the matter of Israeli operations against ‘Iranian’ forces in Syria?

We must remember here that Putin is interested in only one thing in Syria, that is to defeat the West’s regime change project, by defeating their terrorist proxies on the ground.

The West on the other hand is trying to do everything possible to provoke Russia into a military response, that would then lead to escalation and a possible shooting war.

Let us recall that the US twice launched cruise missile strikes against Syria in the last year, in the last attack back in April, the French and British also participated, no response came from Russia.

In 2015, Turkey shot down a Russian jet, so how much of a stretch is it to think that Britain and France [together with Israel playing a supporting role] decided to shoot down the Russian spy plane?

Now Russia holding its fire makes perfect sense and is the smart thing to do, in spite of how bad these provocations look, for one thing Russia even turning on its air defense systems to shoot down US and NATO or Israeli missiles would give the opponent valuable information about how the Russian AD systems operate; this is very valuable tactical information.

Russia is better served not firing its systems unnecessarily, because when it does, the enemy will have little chance to calculate an escape.

As things stand now, no one can defend Israel’s actions on that night. Israel realizes that Russia is very angry and Israel must now alter its behavior as to bombing Syria. Russia will also take steps to increase the security of all Russian assets in Syria. There will not be a repeat performance of this carefully planned ambush of the Ilyushin.

As for retribution for whoever it was that pulled the trigger on that Ilyushin, I think Putin realizes that revenge is a dish best served cold, two can play the game of ‘accidents’ happening.

Move not unless you see an advantage; use not your troops unless there is something to be gained; fight not unless the position is critical.

No ruler should put troops into the field merely to gratify his own spleen; no general should fight a battle simply out of pique.

If it is to your advantage, make a forward move; if not, stay where you are.

Anger may in time change to gladness; vexation may be succeeded by content.

But a kingdom that has once been destroyed can never come again into being; nor can the dead ever be brought back to life.

Hence the enlightened ruler is heedful, and the good general full of caution. This is the way to keep a country at peace and an army intact.http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/quote_icon.png
–Sun TzuBottom line as to what really happened, the website strategic-culture.org, which is published in English by the Russian Academy of Social Sciences ran an editorial two days ago. (https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/09/21/fatal-il-20-shoot-down-red-line.html)
‘An investigation is underway to establish what exactly happened when the Ilyushin IL-20 reconnaissance plane was shot down on Monday night, as it was coming into land at the Russian airbase at Hmeimim in northwest Syria. The plane was lost some 20 kms off the Syrian coast, with all 15 service onboard killed.

There appears to have been an accidental shoot-down by Syrian air defenses using an outdated Soviet-made S-200 system.’
So this semi-official organ of Russian media is not so sure as our two resident ‘experts’ here, and any comments that question their ‘authority’ are unceremoniously dismissed.

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Related:
FULL ANALYSIS: RUSSIAN DISINFO CAMPAIGN ‘BLAMES’ ISRAEL FOR IL-20 PLANE DOWNING, YET EXONERATES FRANCE (https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/full-analysis-russian-disinfo-campaign-blames-israel-for-il-20-plane-downing-yet-exonerates-france/)

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[shaberon]

What is strange is that if it was a NATO provocation, their plausible deniability was out first, giving the same story the Russians give. Possibly they had a "Russia attacks France" story ready to go, but didn't get to use it. Also, if they were doing this, they would have been asking Israel to face its jets against S200 fire as bait. Make sure you get shot at and try to evade. Is France really going to risk its brand new frigate "in hopes" that the Russians would sink it?? I would be more prone to believe they might fire in hopes of getting away with it. "Attempted provocation" seems less likely than the possibility of an opportunistic shot, passed off blame-wise to Syria and Israel.

Are we sure the Il-20 was hit 40km away from the close call, or perhaps hit sooner and kept going for a while? Does the Russian statement specifically say something about the delay being questioned here?

Definitely some fog going on here, but, at the same time, Israel was involved, compelled to admit it, and now considerably more under watch so...if Russia somehow agreed to let France-UK get away with something...would anyone see this as a major problem?

[Hervé]

I can see two main outcomes from the way the Russian handled it:


1) some black mail trump cards against France, the UK and the US



2) an excuse to upgrade Syria's aerial defense systems

As for the Il20, there is a point where it disappeared from radar coverage and from which things can be worked out.