Our Need for Heroes

[Bill Ryan]

Some heroes are the real deal. Occasionally, there are real humans who do remarkable things on behalf of others, and sometimes on behalf of us all. Some are barely known to history. Like Vasili Arkhipov (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov), the Russian submarine commander who in 1962 very probably single-handedly averted World War III.

But when heroes are in short supply, we tend to manufacture them to meet our own emotional needs.

Heroes provide magical answers to problems we badly want to go away. And of course, like Captain America or Wonder Woman, they do all the hard work for us.

Meanwhile, we look on with our popcorn and excitedly root for them: passively — because we’re in our armchairs, doing nothing at all — but also anxiously. It’s all entertainment, but like watching a major sports event (we create our heroes there, too), we invest ourselves passionately in the champions’ success.

And as they battle to save the Marvel Universe, which for moments in the movie we find ourselves believing is ours, we’re always hoping they’ll win through. We desperately want these figures to be what we cannot possibly be ourselves.

The most recent Avengers movie, in which a handful of the fictional heroes actually died, evoked grief-stricken reactions from the moviegoing world. Heroes are meant to be immortal, but the practical Hollywood problem is that the actors aren’t. Like our hero sportspeople, they get older every year. We have to replace them in our minds.

Marvel superheroes don’t really exist, of course, but in the alternative community we regularly elevate flawed mortals to that impossible, exalted position. There are many, many examples, but to minimize the risk of upsetting readers here I’d cite a couple that most might agree with: Corey Goode, and Ben Fulford — and via Fulford, the ‘White Dragon Society’ that never did take any of the promised punitive action against the globalists, and may not even exist.

And then there’s the ‘Galactic Federation of Light’, and a bunch of other non-human groups that true believers always hope will step in to save the world, as if they were from Superman’s Planet Krypton.

The common factors are blind hope; and belief that borders on blind faith.

What happens when heroes fall, or are taken away from us, is upsetting and even traumatic for some. Just yesterday, we’ve heard about a FOIA-accessed FBI document that tells a different story about Phil Schneider (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104340-Phil-Schneider-s-FBI-Encounter-Declassified-9-18-2018) than the one we want to believe.

One response is cognitive dissonance. “OMG! No! How can this be true?!” Another is to transfer our belief in the hero to the belief that the FBI documents must be falsified, or that the person posting about them is an agent of the Dark Side. Ah yes, the revealed info is all planted or faked. That neatly solves our inner problem, a palliative against our sense of anguish and betrayal.

I’m not taking a position here about Schneider (or the FBI): this isn’t the purpose of what I’m saying. I'm just pointing out what happens when we get to be disappointed, or are simply faced with contrary information that threatens to undermine our dreams.

So-called ‘research’ in the alt media is rarely real research. It’s more like we’re always scavenging and searching, the prime motive for our social media dragnet being to help us defend our personal hopes and beliefs.

How many of us really closely and dispassionately examine contradictory views to check whether there may be any substance to them? I’ll leave that question for readers to answer for themselves.

People search for stuff, busily copy-and-paste, and forward posts daily (or hourly!) on Twitter and Facebook. They want to think they’re spreading the truth, but are most often, like religious advocates, spreading belief.

The problem is that the alternative community is collectively very ill-equipped for actually finding things out for real. Like a giant virtual reality game, the internet becomes more ‘real’ than the physical world. We live out our hopes and dreams there, like a giant 3D movie, all with our Google Glass goggles on.

The world is a tough place. Truths are hard to face. Like those believing in ‘Ascension’ (another wished-and-hoped-for, magical, instant, save-us-all-overnight meme, but this time not a human figure), we’re so very often disappointed. We’re all addicted to hope; another fix will make us feel better again.

We’ve simply grown rather lazy in the alt media world. We rarely do any research truly worthy of the name. We seldom carefully fact-check, or call up real people and ask them hard questions. We sit at home instead, swaddled in the captive audience of social media, fueled by our dopamine hits, triumphant when we think we’ve defeated someone who has a counter position. Is this what the world is?

What I'm writing here isn’t a cynical view. But it’s a realistic, grounded one. I’ve been on this journey myself: I thought Pete Peterson was a kind of hero figure. But wowed by his presentation, I never fact-checked a thing. (David Wilcock still hasn’t, to this day.) Years later, as does tend to happen, the truth appeared (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?99679-The-Truth-about-Pete-Peterson-David-Wilcock-the-foreclosure-the-dead-cats-and-GoFundMe), and I was obliged to change my view.

Kerry Cassidy and I flew all the way to Tokyo, back in 2008, to be the first to interview Ben Fulford in person. Now, I’d not invest in the cost of a phone call.

The real question, I think, is one of intellectual honesty. Some heroes ARE for real. Some of them, who suffered for their courage, are listed here: http://projectcamelot.org/tribute.html. (Yes, Phil Schneider is in there, too. I gave him the benefit of the doubt at the time.)

It’s a matter of balance. And always checking, and re-checking, what you assume to be real or truthful. For those who describe their journey as having ‘woken up’ sometime in the last several years (or decades), it’s not just a one-off Road-to-Damascus conversion. Or one ‘red pill’ that you need to take.

It’s a continuous process, one of continual refinement and readjustment, and you may have to take the pills regularly. Courage is needed: red pills are often hard to swallow.

And if you find a real hero…. then support them all you possibly can. But before you go sending $10,000 to your most newly exalted champion… make absolutely sure they’re real. You may not get your money back. Or — in the end — your money’s worth.

[Billy]

The only heroes in my life just now, are all of you guys :muscle: :bowing:

[hermit]

"When they made this particular hero, they didn't give him a gun. They gave him a screwdriver to fix things. They didn't give him a tank or a warship or and X-wing fighter. They gave him a call box from which you can call for help. And they didn't give him a superpower or pointy ears or a heat ray. They gave him an extra heart. They gave him two hearts. And that's an extraordinary thing. There will never come a time when we don't need a hero like the Doctor."

-Steven Moffat

39104

[samildamach]

I was thinking of heroes earlier today,those heroes who keep us safe at night,those that walk in dark places and do dark deeds so we don't have.
Are they still heroes once they have done dark deeds in our name to keep us safe?.

Quote from a few good men film;
Lieutenant J.G. Daniel Kaffe: You cant handle the truth! Son we live in a world that has walls, and those have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it you, you lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury, you have the luxury of not knowing what I know, that Santiago's death while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence while grotesque and incomprehensible, to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you talk about parties; you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall! We use words like honor, code, loyalty, We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something, you use them as a punch line. I have neither the time,or the inclination, to explain myself to a man, who rises and sleep under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner, in which I provide it. I'd rather you just say 'thank you' and go on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn, what you think you are entitled to.

Do we create these men with are unwillingness to look further than are own needs

[ichingcarpenter]

Bill I thank you for your thread.

I wish you would do another youtube interview with either Dolan or Dark Journalist on your opinion of the current and future state of UFO world. Not about any personality per se, but direction

You shine with your eloquence, history, patience, honesty and knowledge of the field in previous interviews and your voice is much needed these days and youtube is what is going on right now vs blogs or forum to get the word out. Though they still have their place.

As many that served in combat will say the real heroes are buried on the shores of Omaha beach not in comix books.

[happyuk]

If we take a look at former KGB agent Yuri Bezmenov's subversion chart, one of the ways of destabilising and demoralising a society is through that of false heroes: (Only 25% of the KGB budget was spent on espionage - the rest went towards subversion)

39105

Richard D Hall does an excellent presentation that identifies fake heroes between 32:50 and 59:30, based on a survey of Richplanet viewers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfwqzWQy44Y

This list of false role models (for which Hall provides logical and persuasive reasons for their inclusion) include:

Brian Cox (notice his painful inability to give any substantial answers to his Australian interviewer)

Russell Brand
David Beckham
Stephen Fry
Jeremy Kyle
Bob Geldof

.. and others...

[Ascension]

One of my problems is time. Obviously, to factually check every aspect of every topic is impossible. So, I tend to find people who I trust (often false heroes), then assume that the time they were able to put into a particular topic is enough for me to either feed my "truth" or dismiss it. But slowly, over time, I've come to realize that the only thing that can be considered truth is that which is experienced directly - which in my case, is damn little. All other is belief based on someone else's word. Intuition seems to be more accurate in steering a clear path, although I think even that can be skewed by base beliefs, or maybe those things I ascribe to intuition are not really intuition, but rather base beliefs obscuring intuition. As a result, this idea of discernment gets cloudier by the second.

[Matthew]

This hero worship makes us elevate people to be better than human, or at the very least 'best human ever'. Then we're disappointed when they are human, and worse still a reminder of what human actually is.

Celebrity works I guess because of hero worship. Before the Rolf Harris scandal in the UK I knew the truth but people just couldn't believe it when I told them. He was a childhood TV guy from our childhood, and it hurt to face the truth.

I'm sure there's a lesson there in how or how not to smash happy childhood memories, but I had not learnt it then, but the truth still got out after Jimmy Savile died. Another monster that hid in Celebrity, exploiting the human weakness of hero worshipping.

Or as previous posters said: false hero worship is the problem. But still, sad to say: the innate human hero worship is disproportionately more prevalent than there are heroes!

[Foxie Loxie]

..."continuous process"...I do believe that encapsulates those of us who are 'seekers' here on Avalon. :highfive:

Each of us knows that not one person has "all the answers"....if we think we have "arrived", we are sadly mistaken. We are each on our own personal journey, learning as we go!

Personally, I am thankful for having been "led" to Avalon where one CAN explore for one's own answers. :sun:

True "heroes" are those like the Dutchman, Ronald Bernard, who have come through the muck & lived to tell about it, going on to make very positive changes in the world around them. That's all any of us can do; have an effect on our sphere of influence, however small that may be! :bigsmile:

Of course, our own Bill Ryan is a good example of one who has given his life to being available to help others along in their search. I think of all those whose time & effort go into even making Avalon available to the rest of us! They ALL deserve our gratitude; even though we do not even know their names! :clapping::clapping:

After a wasted lifetime in a Belief System, I have found it is better never to be a "follower". There is no one who is going to "save us"!
We have to save ourselves...a few years ago I wouldn't have even known what that meant!! :ROFL:

So...please.... don't forget to contribute, even a little bit, to the Forum 'Bank' whenever possible! We have to do what we can to keep this train on the track!! :bearhug:

[Ernie Nemeth]

No one is a hero for long, or conversely some are yet to pick up the cape. Heroes are human too, they are just like me and you. Why would I put them on a pedestal? Still, I might admire them, consider them an ally, maybe even grant them vaulted status. If I did chance upon a bona fide hero I would be hands-off about it. That would be the biggest form of respect I could give them - to leave them be and at peace and love them from afar, anonymously.

U-Tubes are used way too flamboyantly, and I have often been tricked into thinking maybe this is the poster's vid. Instead I have often been let down. It is almost as if folks have forgotten how to express their own opinions in their own words. Instead, it seems the new way to express yourself is to post someone else's expression. I would rather read a synopsis of a video in the op's own words than see the video to find out what it is about. Often the synopsis is enough...

Bill, that was a great post, thanks so much. So many pertinent points, it is hard to pick out a few to comment on.

It seems that many people live their lives or their fantasy lives vicariously through heroes. I particularly like underdogs who overcome adversity and rise to the occasion to save the day - who afterwards downplay their roles and often just say they were at the right place at the right time. And their favorite line is, 'You would have done the same thing had you been there.'

Maybe that is why we like heroes, because they have done what we secretly wish we could do.

[Deux Corbeaux]

It’s not only our need for heroes, but why do we need our heroes to be perfect?

[etheric underground]

Staying balanced and non objective in an ignorant narcissistic selfish reality is heroic

[Flash]

At the present time, after admiring and believing so many people that ended up not worth it, I remain with only one potential heroe whose values and ethic I can trust, whom I can be pretty sure will not disappoint me, whom has proven herself: namely Myself lol, the sad thing is that I am not kidding.

And I do thing it is the best attitude to have - deep knowledge of oneself and appreciation for the human we are, for the actions we did and the decisions we made.

[thepainterdoug]

Bill / This is very well written. My Art project, as you know asks these questions as well. I don't vet or verify, but rather take a number of well know names and players, and submit them to an audience in the hopes of igniting their own inquiry

We all do need to be careful with our language, terminology, to know the difference between fact, faith , hear say and belief.

[mgray]

Heroes and hero worship are hardwired into our DNA. This phenomenon has been with us since Gilgamesh in print and much early in oral tradition.

[what is a name?]

As Flash says, the belief in Self is the one thing no one outside Self can do for YOU. Only You can give the inner Self the Love/info required to bring about change.

And that You is the hero, and everyone has the ability to find their own inner hero.

Therefore it's no surprise that we have been 'conditioned' to look externally for the answers, whether it be the latest whistle blower, ET salvation from the skies or angels from up on high.

Every single person has an inner 'sat nav' to point them on the 'right path' but the extreme measures put in place in every facet of society to send false programming to your 'sat nav', and send the majority down the road of looking for the answer externally - and when you look upon the outer vista that our current planet is experiencing, the potholes are multiplying at a phenomenal rate and it's no wonder a feeling of despondency permeates - which in turn adds more potholes! And do you think that this 'vicious circle of potholes' is a natural/organic flow of energies, or is it a very cleverly designed wheel of deceit to make you create your own potholes?

Meditate on it, it's not rocket science, it's way more interesting! :sun:

[Mike]

Great thread, Bill. Quite a few gems there but the line that stood out to me was this one:"..but when heroes are in short supply, we tend to manufacture them to meet our emotional needs.."

The hero is an archetype, an example, a standard...something to strive for. We are seeing now what happens in a society where the heroes are the bloody Kardashians.

Always look to the self for counsel; don't give away your power. Yes, absolutely...but I'd implore everyone: don't be afraid to have heroes! I'd say, let your hero be the standard that you wish to reach for yourself. Instead of passively watching your heroes, try to join them in their heroism.

On a smaller scale, we can all be heroes for someone(s). That's why it's so important to take personal responsibility for oneself to reach one's highest potential - It's not just for you!...It's for the people that you're going to inspire by doing just that. And every time you fail to meet that standard for yourself, you potentially stall the growth of someone who might have looked up to you.

I think a society can be judged by it's heroes, or lack thereof. It's a real indicator of where things are at.

I like my heroes to have flaws. It's makes them even more heroic in my eyes! Muhammad Ali, John Lennon..these guys were very flawed in some ways. The writer Charles Bukowski is another hero of mine. Bill you're a hero for creating this forum!

Jordan Peterson(another hero) on heroes and the origin of the hero:
PYjzDLI72wE

[samildamach]

My hero was the late Tony Benn MP.
Flawed certainly and a brilliant mind.
He was one of the few who spoke out for peace in Iraq before the war, and never wavered when attacked from all sides.

[christian]

Just yesterday, we’ve heard about a FOIA-accessed FBI document that tells a different story about Phil Schneider than the one we want to believe.

One response is cognitive dissonance. “OMG! No! How can this be true?!” Another is to transfer our belief in the hero to the belief that the FBI documents must be falsified, or that the person posting about them is an agent of the Dark Side.

A very similar event happened here on the forum (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70857-Dulce-Base-The-Truth-and-Evidence-from-the-Case-Files-of-Gabe-Valdez) some four years ago, when I posted information about Phil Schneider that I found in Dulce Base by Greg Valdez.

This book is meticulously researched, and quite prophetically Greg Valdez states in the beginning that most of the alternative community will probably not like it. From the information that was gathered by his father, a policeman in Dulce, Greg says that there was a secret human installation. No aliens and no shoot-outs.

The reason why Greg Valdez thought this would irk alternative "researchers" is that they want to get a sensational story all the time, and in this case this would mean aliens.

From experience and observation, I agree with there being a trend of sensationalism in the alternative media. It seems that after finding out that some quite gigantic conspiracies are real, there is a sense of greed to go on and find larger and larger conspiracies, as exciting and extravagant as possible. What begins as a sincere quest for truth devolves into thrill-seeking.

Our work as researchers and as a human race is cut out for us, and much of it is neither exceedingly pretty, nor pleasant, nor exciting — but simply sober and continuous work. The rewards may appear subtle but are no less beautiful or gratifying than any sensational story you could come up with.

[Deux Corbeaux]

At the present time, after admiring and believing so many people that ended up not worth it, I remain with only one potential hero whose values and ethic I can trust, whom I can be pretty sure will not disappoint me, whom has proven herself: namely Myself lol, the sad thing is that I am not kidding.

In my life I was disappointed by myself quite a few times. I had to accept that "this ugly person" was also a part of ME, but I forgave "her". Lesson learned, present earned.
And I´m not so sure I won´t be disappointed by the "ugly one" again, lol, the sad thing is that I am not kidding.


And I do think it is the best attitude to have -deep knowledge of oneself and appreciation for the human we are, for the actions we did and the decisions we made.

Fully agree, however I think my flaws are human and I have appreciation for flawed heroes as well.


I like my heroes to have flaws. It's makes them even more heroic in my eyes!

I´m on your side, Mike. Jordan Peterson included . :)

[greybeard]

Oh yes christian and support for and against (hero worshiped) almost killed off this forum, through the for and against--some time back.
He held fort so well --countless threads on the one subject --his story
What was his name again ??
Avalon survived and is all the more mature for it.
Chris

[greybeard]

Oh I remember it was Charles--before the name and av changed (Atticus)
No matter its ancient history but hopefully not to be repeated by any new hero or heroine.

Chris

[Eagle Eye]

There are people who dedicate their live for a path beyond themselves, that means not excluding themselves but sacrificing much more than others for the good of many. There are great men in this world but unfortunately mostly are not mainstream, their purpose goes beyond materialism, fame or themselves. For sure we can call them heroes , but they won't recognise themselves as heroes (they just define as : just doing the job we are supposed to do)

Even this wonderful forum of truthseekers has many and they will always have our gratitude for their hard work.

[Luke Holiday]

....tit for tat....

[Flash]

For whom have we been heroes and we did not know?

I have been and still sometimes is my daughter’s heroe. But, as Deux Corbeaux said - very intelligent and psychic birds - my numerous flaws my daughter sees, yet she has love in her heart for her mom.

I must say she is my heroe.

——/-

Little story: for years, throughout their primary and high school, I had two little Turkish girls using me as a French language mentor/instructor.

Whenever they had a difficult homework, they would call me and I would have an hour or two with them guiding them, helping them with grammar as well as with creativity in their writing and at school.

They ended up having good grades all along despite having both their parents unable to speak the language and being pretty much analphabet.

(In Quebec, all schooling is in French - no English except for one hour and half per week, French is essential to succeed at school).

Years later, one of the girl was in College and had to do some homework on Heroes. She had to name one heroe who transformed her life.

She phoned me and explained her homework. I thought she needed help but no. She told me I was her chosen heroe and why.

I am still crying when I think of it

She never knew that many many times, I almost dropped them having too much work and too much to do with my daughter. I finally never did drop them, and I am happy I went over and above for them.

[AutumnW]

Never trust your intuition alone unless you know your subject inside out and backwards. Phil Schneider DID seem believable. Most accomplished liars do. When someone's lying from a podium, they generally don't glance about furtively or giggle nervously. People who are telling the truth but have stage fright are more apt to come across this way.

Thanks for the thread, Bill. Loved your opening post and all of the contributions!

[Bubu]

Its sad to think that doing the right thing which should be normal is now considered heroic. But if consider those who save the world or do good for the multitudes as heroes then this too are heroes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6ruummWW44

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I think there are many heroes on avalon everywhere in fact

[Bill Ryan]

It's sad to think that doing the right thing which should be normal is now considered heroic. But if we consider those who save the world or do good for the multitudes are heroes, then these too are heroes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6ruummWW44



:bump:

Bumping this astonishingly moving little video.

I can't agree more. In the wonderful Jeff Bridges movie Starman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starman_(film)), the visiting Starman says:


You are a strange species. Not like any other. And you would be surprised how many there are. Intelligent but savage.
Shall I tell you what I find beautiful about you? You are at your very best when things are worst.

Amen to that.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyNFY1R-d8w
But that's not actually the point I was making in the thread, though I've appreciated every post here. We do indeed have heroes all around. Saving a life is as important (for that person) as saving the world is for us all.

But the need for hero worship is the interesting thing here. And, as I mentioned: we tend to manufacture heroes, often artificially, when they're in short supply.

It's a deep need that we tend to have: to hope a hero will come to our rescue. That then takes the pressure of each of us individually to get out of our armchairs and act... or take on the mantle of being a hero, in any way at all.

[crosby]

My heroes are my children. They will carry on a some-what stilted family legacy and make their families stronger in faith, love, and character. They will be stronger than I, and my predecessors and they will build and pass their strength on to their own children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. That is what makes a hero.
crosby

[hermit]

It’s not only our need for heroes, but why do we need our heroes to be perfect?

There's an interesting phenomenon here in Canada, specifically Saskatchewan, with regard to how the Metis people view their heroes.

The Metis nation is a culmination of individuals who identify as having ancestry of French/Aboriginal heritage (think Hudson Bay meets the people they were trading with, people fall in love, cultures mix). While going into the history here would require pages, and pages, and pages, briefly:

The Metis people used a French system of measure to determine the size of their lots along the Red River in Manitoba, think long narrow lots facing the river to allow for irrigation and access to the transportation route. When the government stepped in to survey the country, the long lots didn't fit the grid system that was in play. Long story short, they were driven further west into the area near Batoche, Saskatchewan. An uprising occurred when the Metis would not conform, people were shot and killed on both sides, leaders of the rebellion were arrested and killed or went into exile.

But the Metis never ever hide the fact that their leaders were quirky, if not crazy.

Riel and Dumont agreed to meet with their collective groups of people at Batoche. It was early spring, and every time Riel saw something that was out of the ordinary, a bird that was seen, a flower that might be blooming, a leaf that was popping out, he took it as a sign that God was with them and made the entire entourage kneel and pray a complete rosary. Dumont had a ferry crossing and was known to load up the ferry, hand the passengers the poles, and wish them luck to get to the other side of the Saskatchewan River (this was and is a fast flowing river). When he knew that the Canadian forces were upon him, he dismantled his trading post and was said to have buried his billiard table rather than have Canadian soldiers play on it.

I think this is a significant way of approaching how we look at our heroes. Not as individual that are on a pedestal, but rather individuals with flaws just like the rest of us that found a way to overcome the obstacles to just do the right thing.

Your mileage may vary.

[Soda]

"And if you find a real hero…. then support them all you possibly can. But before you go sending $10,000 to your most newly exalted champion… make absolutely sure they’re real. You may not get your money back. Or — in the end — your money’s worth."
Well said Mr. Ryan. :o

[Bubu]

It's sad to think that doing the right thing which should be normal is now considered heroic. But if we consider those who save the world or do good for the multitudes are heroes, then these too are heroes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6ruummWW44



:bump:

Bumping this astonishingly moving little video.

I can't agree more. In the wonderful Jeff Bridges movie Starman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starman_(film)), the visiting Starman says:


You are a strange species. Not like any other. And you would be surprised how many there are. Intelligent but savage.
Shall I tell you what I find beautiful about you? You are at your very best when things are worst.

Amen to that.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyNFY1R-d8w
But that's not actually the point I was making in the thread, though I've appreciated every post here. We do indeed have heroes all around. Saving a life is as important (for that person) as saving the world is for us all.

But the need for hero worship is the interesting thing here. And, as I mentioned: we tend to manufacture heroes, often artificially, when they're in short supply.

It's a deep need that we tend to have: to hope a hero will come to our rescue. That then takes the pressure of each of us individually to get out of our armchairs and act... or take on the mantle of being a hero, in any way at all.

the need for hero worship I think originated from religion all meant to control, make people inactive and hope for a savior. and then there are the movies and all that refreshes the hero mentality in our brains. thats why I see heroes in ordinary people not someone bigger than life but non existent. as long as we see heroes as someone larger than life we aint going anywhere. . fact is no individual can carry the burden for everyone. leaders may rise and do extraordinary things only if they have support from ordinary folks. We are the heroes we should be the heroes we ordinary folks.

[DNA]

What happens when heroes fall, or are taken away from us, is upsetting and even traumatic for some. Just yesterday, we’ve heard about a FOIA-accessed FBI document that tells a different story about Phil Schneider (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104340-Phil-Schneider-s-FBI-Encounter-Declassified-9-18-2018) than the one we want to believe.
One response is cognitive dissonance. “OMG! No! How can this be true?!” Another is to transfer our belief in the hero to the belief that the FBI documents must be falsified, or that the person posting about them is an agent of the Dark Side. Ah yes, the revealed info is all planted or faked. That neatly solves our inner problem, a palliative against our sense of anguish and betrayal.
I’m not taking a position here about Schneider (or the FBI): this isn’t the purpose of what I’m saying. I'm just pointing out what happens when we get to be disappointed, or are simply faced with contrary information that threatens to undermine our dreams.

Greetings Dear Bill
I"m a big fan of challenging cognitive dissonance and for the record I'm not really prone to hero worship.
Even as a teenager I would always try to see things as they were, not optimistic or pessimistic but pragmatically.
I've never to my recollection jumped on the bandwagon of any of the folks who attained such status on this forum, keeping my opinion to my self until such time that I could see or hear their actual words coming out of their mouths.



In the instance of Simon Parks I never thought that guy was lying, I could just see a weird slimyness about him that offended my senses.
I still don't think Parks was lying, he probably is an abductee but that helps to illustrate how we should not elevate abductees in any way other than listening to their story. In my opinion Houman should dig into Simon Parks and post it on his thread illustrating how Parks is probably had a non-organic parasite placed in him just as Maarit and Dr. Malanga talk about in terms of the Eve Lorgan site here (http://evelorgen.com/wp/articles/military-abduction-milabs-and-reptilians/horus-ra/#more-1095).

And then there was Shane, Shane's words sounded great on paper but the first time I heard him speak via the Kerry Cassidy interview I knew 100% he was lying and I said so on the thread where this interview was placed. I was the first person to say such on that thread to which most everyone including told me to give him another chance. I did not give him another chance and saw no reason to given he failed to pass my gut check so miserably.



Same thing with Corey Goode, I gave the guy a chance as his words were written but as soon as I saw him interviewed for the first time I knew 100% he was lying.

In terms of hero worship I've got to share something with you. When posting over at TOT I was in disbelief as to how negative folks were there. I would argue their points both on the forum and via private message. In all cases they accused me of hero worship and the person they were convinced I was worshiping was you. :)
Now I'm a huge fan of your work and I'm a huge fan of your character and your ability to state things as plainly and as honestly as you can. :frog:

This is not because of any piece of information you have shared and or any claims you have made, I trust my gut about you Bill, you pass all my check marks in terms of being a genuine person who is doing the best he can try and piece the puzzles together.

Some folks have keen discerning intellects they use to try and figure out who is lying and or telling the truth based on certain evidence.
I have an average intellect at best, and when relying on it exclusively I'm of the opinion I'm doing myself a disservice.

My ability to focus in on core motivations of people and their true modus operandi has always been top notch in my opinion while focusing on how they are saying things rather than what they are saying. This ability can only be utilized if I see and or hear the actual communication taking place. It's a curse as much as it is a resource I can assure you but there it is.

When using this resource I can tell you 100% Bill that I trust your motivations to truly help folks understand things I believe 100% that you are a genuine person with the best in mind for folks on the forum and off.
I tell you this not because I'm worshiping you as a hero but because I recognize truth and lies, and you are a very truthful person.
Regardless of instances where we disagree I still respect your opinion and will often reexamine certain angles I have taken in respects to your suggestions.

I've reexamined my opinions on Phil Schneider in three posts starting HERE (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?31294-EPITAPH-The-Phil-Schneider-Story&p=1249660&viewfull=1#post1249660). My opinions on him as being legit have only been strengthened. If Phil is exaggerating or taking liberty with someone else"s story here and there I"m of the opinion that this does not invalidate his motivations to tell people the truth. A truth that he is 100% sure is real and exists.

[greybeard]

I dont think that people realize the ripple effect of being "nice" to one person has.
We are all heroes in that respect.
Showing genuine appreciation to some one lifts them and then their interaction with the people they meet that day is subtly different--they then in turn lift others and on it goes.
We can all be heroes ---we can make a difference.
Every time we meet some one we are ether lifting them or otherwise.
That is not taking away from those we consider to be outstanding people.

Be a hero to yourself first--appreciate what you are--then its easy to bring a smile to the face of others.

Chris

[ichingcarpenter]

DNA............ Phil lied many times about his father to me that's serious. He didn't embellish ...... he lied and gave his dad stolen valor.
See my post in that section.

[Mike]

Hey Marcus I'm glad you said all that. Lot of important points.

There certainly are a group of highly dogmatic individuals who have a habit of going around and accusing others of dogmatism. It's hilarious in a way. Using Bill as an example here: those people that you referenced will accuse anybody, and I mean anybody - from a casual supporter to someone who has just joined the forum - of deaf-dumb-blind across the board hero worship of Bill, without seeing the irony of their statements. In fact, *they* are the ones taking the extreme, emotionally driven position. They need to paint others in this exaggerated, sycophantic light to continue to justify all their baseless, childish resentments.

(And OMG, this notion that everyone agrees with Bill on everything and so on....total rubbish! I wish everyone could take a peek into the mod chambers once in a while. There are loads of disagreements! ...passionate and heated disagreements sometimes. I mean, it's a laughable accusation!:bigsmile:)

Anyway, what encourages me now is that the folks we're looking to currently for legit info and opinions are scientific, grounded, logical, and most important..sane. People like Dolan, Fitts, Farrell, Howe etc. These people are much more worthy of the hero mantle, imo.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good outlandish story! You guys are gonna think I'm nuts, but I find Wilcock to be pretty entertaining! Emery Smith too. It would all make for a great tv series!

And there are other so called whistleblowers that I do give some credence to but have offered little to no evidence; I don't think they should be dismissed entirely, I just think they belong in a different category altogether. And certainly not looked upon as heroes.

So it appears what we have are those that have been burned so many times that they refuse to give credit to anyone...and ridicule those who do; and we have those who recklessly worship at the altar of Goode and Wilcock, and others of that ilk who tell preposterous stories with little to no evidence. In the alt community we're always triggered into extremes. The middle ground, for me anyway, still can involve heroes, but that doesn't mean we cede our personal power and worship at their feet; it merely means we admire someone and are grateful for their contributions and example.

[Denise/Dizi]

Some heroes are the real deal. Occasionally, there are real humans who do remarkable things on behalf of others, and sometimes on behalf of us all. Some are barely known to history. Like Vasili Arkhipov (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov), the Russian submarine commander who in 1962 very probably single-handedly averted World War III.

But when heroes are in short supply, we tend to manufacture them to meet our own emotional needs.

Heroes provide magical answers to problems we badly want to go away. And of course, like Captain America or Wonder Woman, they do all the hard work for us.

Meanwhile, we look on with our popcorn and excitedly root for them: passively — because we’re in our armchairs, doing nothing at all — but also anxiously. It’s all entertainment, but like watching a major sports event (we create our heroes there, too), we invest ourselves passionately in the champions’ success.


So very well said, all of it. We are all so busy looking to the next for the answers, we forget we are the solution... Plain and simple. While others may come bearing gifts of telepathy, technology , and education, it is up to us to put it to good us for ourselves...

I have had my own experiences, and while I believed the information I was given, I too, must recognize that I may have been deceived.. Yet so many are stating their information as facts, and no one is willing or seemingly bothered to do the real checking behind the scenes.

I will probably spend the rest of my life trying to finish putting my events into the context, but during that time, I was made very well aware of one thing. Only I can determine my destiny, the impressions I give others, the impact I have on the lives of others, and only I can change that.. Unless I allow someone else the authority over myself. I try to be the change I wish to see.. And it isn't easy, it is something I need remind myself daily..

I wear a charm daily, as well as a red string on my left wrist... to remind myself not to give preprogramed responses to questions... Not to just go with the flow, because it is going to affect others, as well as myself. It truly is as simple as self policing our own actions and responses, on a mass level.. And heros can be found... looking no further than inside of ourselves.

Sadly people are too busy bickering, and trying to present twelve sides to one story... Do I trust Phil Schneider? I don't know.. But I do know he isn't the first, nor is he the only one to speak of underground tunnels. But as I have learned, many i the field will take on more information, and expand past their given field of knowledge, just to remain relevent, and BE THAT HERO FIGURE.. Sad... However I don't trust the FBI completely either... After some of their past information came to light.

Discernment, and personal accountability is what is needed. We shouldn't be arguing about what they're doing, but rather finding better ideas to CHANGE IT..

[DNA]

In the alt community we're always triggered into extremes. The middle ground, for me anyway, still can involve heroes, but that doesn't mean we cede our personal power and worship at their feet; it merely means we admire someone and are grateful for their contributions and example.


That was well said, you voiced a feeling that was in my gut but I was unable to articulate.
This reminds me of something seemingly unrelated but I think I can bring it around to where we are.
When I was younger I had a fascination with world religions, especially those having to do with Christianity and the creation of it.
I was completely convinced that Christianity was a false belief system and made it my personal obligation to point this out to others.
I didn't do it with the objective of entering into some kind of obtuse debate, but rather I would take the Platonic route and ask pertinent questions allowing my dialogue partner the opportunity to answer these questions.
I won't get into the details and bore you to death but I remember some hard core true believers walking away doubting their faith quite strongly.
I stopped doing this around the age of 24.
I stopped because I had convinced my best friend, (a former Catholic) to abandon his religion.
This man's name was Henry and I had been best friends with him since we were 10 years old. He was amazingly brave, and admirably honest.
He was an absolutely good person bordering on greatness. He was intelligent, loyal, creative and quite popular with the ladies.
When we were 22 I had finally convinced him that Christianity was invalid, that there was no Christian God.
I had successfully destroyed his hero, and his hero was God.
Now did I do this? Am I giving myself too much credit and or blame here. I don't know, maybe.
I remember at the time I used to enjoy the herb, and my friend wouldn't touch drugs of any kind.
After losing his hero he began experimenting with Ecstasy and Coke, it was the nineties and all.
We began hanging out less and less, and next thing you know he was on Meth. By the time we were thirty he was a mere shell of himself.
It was around this time I completely abandoned him and refused his calls and any other form of communication and I still refuse his calls to this day.

I say all of this because regardless of the validity of a Christian God, this man needed God in his life, and his life suffered greatly when that hero was stripped from him.
My part in this is one of my greatest regrets. Never try to strip someone of their beliefs because we do not know what they will replace those beliefs with when those beliefs are gone.

[DNA]

DNA............ Phil lied many times about his father to me that's serious. He didn't embellish ...... he lied and gave his dad stolen valor.
See my post in that section.

Did Phil fake getting murdered? Phil's murder during his speaking tour means there must have been an interest in him.
He appears to have been beaten quite brutally before he was killed.
His samples he would show during speaking engagements all vanished as well.




''There are people so addicted to exaggeration they can't tell the truth without lying.''

This is also stolen valor on the German side of history that he's done to build himself up. Watch Das Boot and no matter what one thinks about WW2 this film shows what the crew went through. Even though the film came out in 81 it started hitting the big time in the 90s, on various venues, dvd, bbc series, english version, long version etc
His story of his dad is not an embellishment of history its an outright lie and liars should never be your heroes.

Joe.... good follow up and yes his medical record is important

I wonder why nobody ever did a FOIA request before on Phil as far as we know. When Phil broke into the scene at conferences the internet data base was in its infancy so research back then was also limited.

Now you can go to a site and get a list of all the U boat commanders in WW2.......... guess what? ....... Phil's dad is not on the list
Don't tell me this was a German conspiracy of keeping his dad off the list and his Dad's history was an important part of his story

All U boat commanders in ww2 linked to the letter S

https://uboat.net/men/commanders/s.htm

Germany's freedom of information acts are intimately linked to and influenced by America's deep state especially the CIA in my opinion.
So rather than a German conspiracy it very well could be and probably is an American conspiracy.
I'm not trying to be confrontational and or condescending I just don't see the same concrete evidence here that you do.
The same people who rail against the deep state and look at them as being the controlling factor in our world should probably not be quick to quote them in regards to information, especially when that information is top secret and is of utmost importance for them to keep hidden.

[CD7]

YES we are the Heros weve been waiting for!....and ya know whats possible for us PALES in Comparison to what we are shown in the moving pictures....we get the plastic fruit two dimensional version lol...

Multidimensional superhero creator love muffins is whats possible.... 😍
And the Environment resulted from such beings could be Magnificent...Then our superhero asses can frolick, play and Actually LIVE Thrive Experience Cultivate BE.....

[christian]

Did Phil fake getting murdered? Phil's murder during his speaking tour means there must have been an interest in him.
He appears to have been beaten quite brutally before he was killed.

With a person who has serious psychological problems, it would be hard to tell whether he was beaten or if the wounds were somehow self-inflicted. Especially in the case of Schneider, whose shoot-out wounds are probably something else.

We don't really know if he was murdered. As Gabe Valdez shows in Dulce Base, the autopsy was performed in a rather sloppy manner.

Considering that Paul Bennewitz was fed with false info about Dulce in order to spread the alien story as a cover for a secret military installation, it wouldn't even seem too far-fetched to kill Schneider in order to make his story appear legitimate.

[DNA]

Did Phil fake getting murdered? Phil's murder during his speaking tour means there must have been an interest in him.
He appears to have been beaten quite brutally before he was killed.

With a person who has serious psychological problems, it would be hard to tell whether he was beaten or if the wounds were somehow self-inflicted. Especially in the case of Schneider, whose shoot-out wounds are probably something else.

We don't really know if he was murdered. As Gabe Valdez shows in Dulce Base, the autopsy was performed in a rather sloppy manner.

Considering that Paul Bennewitz was fed with false info about Dulce in order to spread the alien story as a cover for a secret military installation, it wouldn't even seem too far-fetched to kill Schneider in order to make his story appear legitimate.
Phil Schneider was tortured and killed. End of story.

Phil died for our sins of ignorance and attempted to Red Pill the world.



Phil knew he was going to be killed for the information he was sharing and said so repeatedly during his presentations.

Ask yourself, "would you willingly die in an attempt to red pill the world"?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG4chVDcTPY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG4chVDcTPY

[thepainterdoug]

I have for a while now, been taking it upon myself to be my own Hero. It need not be loud or out front with notoriety . Tell the truth, be kind, loving , treat others as you want to be treated. No need to squabble over religion if you practice that. Do an honest days work in whatever you choose to do and leave a positive trail
Do some sort of charity every day be it money or acknowledgement of someone in need and bring some sunshine to others.They are right in front of you so you need not look to far.
Pick up after yourself , and at the end of the day, you have done more good for all than watching the news and getting angry and frustrated.

[Bubu]

I have for a while now, been taking it upon myself to be my own Hero. It need not be loud or out front with notoriety . Tell the truth, be kind, loving , treat others as you want to be treated. No need to squabble over religion if you practice that. Do an honest days work in whatever you choose to do and leave a positive trail
Do some sort of charity every day be it money or acknowledgement of someone in need and bring some sunshine to others.They are right in front of you so you need not look to far.
Pick up after yourself , and at the end of the day, you have done more good for all than watching the news and getting angry and frustrated.

Yes this is exactly what I am saying. Just giving a tip to a waiter or service crew could be heroic. As mentioned above the ripple effect could be huge and in the end of the day you could have done a huge heroism without knowing it and simply by starting an inspiration for others to emulate. I use to be awkward at first in going the extra step to help other people because its not normal. But once I get started I realized people love it and love me for it. Not to mention the joy of seeing the waiters face brighten up for the extra coins. Well its not just coins its appreciation. Warning: helping others could be addictive you could end up giving up too much of yourself. but its worth it me thinks. heroism starts with baby steps too. And the best part of it is you dont need special powers or skills to be a hero.

[AutumnW]

Hey Marcus I'm glad you said all that. Lot of important points.

There certainly are a group of highly dogmatic individuals who have a habit of going around and accusing others of dogmatism. It's hilarious in a way. Using Bill as an example here: those people that you referenced will accuse anybody, and I mean anybody - from a casual supporter to someone who has just joined the forum - of deaf-dumb-blind across the board hero worship of Bill, without seeing the irony of their statements. In fact, *they* are the ones taking the extreme, emotionally driven position. They need to paint others in this exaggerated, sycophantic light to continue to justify all their baseless, childish resentments.

(And OMG, this notion that everyone agrees with Bill on everything and so on....total rubbish! I wish everyone could take a peek into the mod chambers once in a while. There are loads of disagreements! ...passionate and heated disagreements sometimes. I mean, it's a laughable accusation!:bigsmile:)

Anyway, what encourages me now is that the folks we're looking to currently for legit info and opinions are scientific, grounded, logical, and most important..sane. People like Dolan, Fitts, Farrell, Howe etc. These people are much more worthy of the hero mantle, imo.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good outlandish story! You guys are gonna think I'm nuts, but I find Wilcock to be pretty entertaining! Emery Smith too. It would all make for a great tv series!

And there are other so called whistleblowers that I do give some credence to but have offered little to no evidence; I don't think they should be dismissed entirely, I just think they belong in a different category altogether. And certainly not looked upon as heroes.

So it appears what we have are those that have been burned so many times that they refuse to give credit to anyone...and ridicule those who do; and we have those who recklessly worship at the altar of Goode and Wilcock, and others of that ilk who tell preposterous stories with little to no evidence. In the alt community we're always triggered into extremes. The middle ground, for me anyway, still can involve heroes, but that doesn't mean we cede our personal power and worship at their feet; it merely means we admire someone and are grateful for their contributions and example.

Dolan, to my mind is the only one you mentioned who is scientific, grounded, etc...

Farrell goes way beyond what the evidence suggests to push his point of view. Then he tarts up what are pure assumptions with wild eyed conjecture.

Some of his original work is worthy seems to be fairly credible conspiracy theory. But since gaining status as an 'expert,' he likely feels safe to indulge his flair for fiction.

And Fitts tends to believe what people tell her if they share a similar world view and appear credible. To her credit she isn't showboating and appears to be genuine in her beliefs. She is an outstanding intellect and wonderful to refer to when it comes to the economy though. But scientific? Far from it.

These people do appear to be sane, though imaginative. I would not create laurels for them to rest on by not at least casually vetting every word that comes out of their mouths though. Nobody deserves that kind of adulation. Nobody.

Anyway, fwiw. Hate to disagree but think it's important to question everybody and everything. :sun:

[AutumnW]

Pay it forward. Give till it hurts. Be the best parent and or spouse you can be. Be a safe harbour for those who suffer. To be kind under stress is heroic. Most on this forum are more heroic than their heroes. Their 'heroes' may simply be self serving narcissistic liars. If you knew them personally you would likely run away screaming!