Walmart sounds the alarm: "Trump's trade war will hit Americans hard"

[chancy]

Hello Everyone:
As you can tell from the article governments don't listen to anyone!
From what I have seen in my life politicians have no idea about most things and how they work. As soon as they are elected they magically become experts on everything! Case in point "tariffs".

I think that the us president should raise the tariffs to 100%. WHY do I say that is because the american people would finally realize that he should be impeached, kicked out or whatever you call it when the president doesn't have the interest of the people in his decisions.

There is one other possible conclusion we can come to:
This is a plan of collusion that all the parties of all the countries involved have signed onto in order to make astronomical amounts of "free" money from the consumers and businesses of their country.
Canada's government has made a cool 300 million in the the short time the tariffs have been on. What a great way to make extra money to spend while all the time telling the people is very important to put tariffs on the other country that's putting tariffs on our country.
I personally think is to raise money....what do you think?
chancy


Link:
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/walmart-reportedly-warns-trump-apos-112600665.html

WALMART SOUNDS THE ALARM _ Trump's
trade war will hit Americans hard (WMT)
Business Insider - Will Martin
Eduardo Munoz/Reuters

Article:
Business InsiderSeptember 21, 2018 Walmart green
Walmart sent a letter to the Trump administration about two weeks ago asking it to reconsider new tariffs on $200 billion worth of Chinese goods.
In a letter to US Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer seen by Business Insider, the retailer reportedly said the immediate impact of the fresh tariffs "will be to raise prices on consumers and tax American business and manufacturers."
The letter did not succeed, with the tariffs announced this past Monday.

Walmart, the largest US retailer, is sounding the alarm on President Donald Trump's trade war, saying it is "very concerned" about the impacts the newly announced tariffs may have on American consumers.

In a letter to US Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer seen by Business Insider, the company — which employs 2.3 million people worldwide, including 1.5 million in the US — said the immediate impact of the fresh tariffs "will be to raise prices on consumers and tax American business and manufacturers."

"As the largest retailer in the United States and a major buyer of U.S. manufactured goods, we are very concerned about the impacts these tariffs would have on our business, our customers, our suppliers and the U.S. economy as a whole," Walmart wrote.

The letter — sent about two weeks ago — Walmart asked Lighthizer and the Trump administration to reconsider putting tariffs on Chinese-made consumer goods including Christmas lights, shampoo, dog food, luggage, mattresses, handbags, backpacks, vacuum cleaners, bicycles, cooking grills, cable cords, and air conditioners.

The letter did not achieve that goal, with the administration pushing forward earlier this week with the imposition of tariffs on $200 billion worth of Chinese goods, affecting more than 5,000 products. When those tariffs are implemented, tariffs, which function as taxes, will have been imposed on roughly half of US imports from China as part of the Trump administration's move to pressure China into changing some of its trade practices.

"For months, we have urged China to change these unfair practices, and give fair and reciprocal treatment to American companies," Trump said in a statement on Monday.

"We have been very clear about the type of changes that need to be made, and we have given China every opportunity to treat us more fairly. But, so far, China has been unwilling to change its practices."

He added: "As president, it is my duty to protect the interests of working men and women, farmers, ranchers, businesses, and our country itself."

In its letter, Walmart also warned of the ways businesses could deal with the tariffs. It is effectively a choice between increasing prices for customers or taking a hit to their profits by absorbing the increased costs themselves.

"Either consumers will pay more, suppliers will receive less, retail margins will be lower, or consumers will buy fewer products or forego purchases altogether," Walmart said.
Here's a timeline of the US-China trade war so far:

March 1: President Donald Trump announces tariffs on all imports of steel and aluminum, including metals from China.
March 22: Trump announces plans to impose a 25% tariff on $50 billion worth of Chinese goods. China announces tariffs in retaliation to the steel and aluminum duties and promises a response to the latest US announcement.
April 3: The US trade representative announces a list of Chinese goods subject to the tariffs. There is a mandatory 60-day comment period for industries to ask for exemptions from the tariffs.
April 4: China rolls out a list of more than 100 US goods worth roughly $50 billion that are subject to retaliatory tariffs.
May 21: After a meeting, the two countries announce the outline of a trade deal to avoid the tariffs.
May 29: The White House announces that the tariffs on $50 billion worth of Chinese goods will move forward, with the final list of goods released June 15. The move appears to wreck the nascent trade deal.
June 15: Trump rolls out the final list of goods subject to new tariffs. Chinese imports worth $34 billion would be subject to the new 25% tariff as of July 6, with another $16 billion worth of imports subject to the tariff at a later date. China retaliates with an equivalent set of tariffs.
June 18: Trump threatens a 10% tariff on another $200 billion worth of Chinese goods.
July 6: The first tranche of tariffs on $34 billion worth of Chinese goods takes effect; China responds in kind.
July 10: The US releases an initial list of an additional $200 billion worth of Chinese goods that could be subject to a 10% tariff.
August 1: Washington more than doubles the value of its tariff threats against Beijing, announcing plans to increase the size of proposed duties on $200 billion worth of Chinese goods to 25% from 10%.
August 3: China says it will impose tariffs of various rates on another $60 billion worth of US goods if Trump moves forward with his latest threat.
August 7: The US announces that the second tranche of tariffs, which will hit $16 billion worth of Chinese goods, will go into effect on August 23.
August 23: The US imposes tariffs on another $16 billion worth of Chinese goods, and Beijing responds with tariffs on $16 billion worth of US goods.
September 7: Trump says the tranche of tariffs on $200 billion worth of Chinese goods is coming "soon" and threatens to impose tariffs on another $267 billion worth of Chinese goods.
September 17: Trump announces 10% tariffs on $200 billion worth of Chinese goods, saying China has "been unwilling to change its practices."
September 18: China says it has "no choice" but to retaliate to the fresh tariffs "to safeguard its legitimate rights and interests." It announces tariffs on $60 billion worth of US goods sent to China.

[Cognitive Dissident]

This issue is very serious from an economic and political perspective:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-21/path-war-china-cancels-us-trade-talks-skirmish-escalates

What Trump doesn't seem to realise is that the Chinese now think that there is a strategic struggle for supremacy between the US and China. In other words, tariffs are only one part of the broader conflict. It includes AI, espionage, diplomacy, One Belt One Road, finance, etc.

Trump's strategic error (or escalation) is that he thinks that he can "do a deal" with the Chinese. Because of his actions, the Chinese, who are of course highly intelligent strategic thinkers, have realised that no deal is possible, because Trump wants to "win". So the Chinese cannot see any benefit in backing down on tariffs. It will only if the domestic Chinese economy really suffers that they will back down. But for the moment the Chinese are using this as an opportunity to move away from American products (e.g. US soybeans for Chinese pigs are being replaced by other feedstock). We won't see any tariffs on the iPhone, unless things get really serious.

[spade]

walmart? really -

Hillary Clinton was a Wal-Mart Director for 6 Years
http://www.progressivepress.net/hillary-clinton-was-a-wal-mart-director-for-6-years/


Hillary Clinton Received a Massive Donation From Walmart ...
https://www.alternet.org/election-2016/alice-walton-donated-353400-clintons-victory-fund

Walmart can cry all they want... do you really trust what they say?

[enigma3]

If a statement comes from Walmart I know the opposite is true. They are in it for their own best interests, not ours.

How China ever achieved most favored nation status is beyond me. They have never joined the community of nations to honor patents. They call their intellectual information the Great Wall of Patents. They are the world's leader in intellectual/ entertainment piracy. They were caught recently trying to smuggle a vast quantity of Fentanyl into the US through the porous Mexican border. The Han Chinese (largest ethnic group in China) think they are the holiest of holier than thou. They have amassed a great fortune on the backs of the US middle class. They keep on sending inferior/defective parts to us, Their government subsidizes most of their industries, again, on the backs of we the people. They have a 19 story building in Shanghai that is filled to the brim with hackers. Working 24 hours a day to interrupt and damage our lives. They treat the workers in their factories worse than slaves. And Li Jinping just keeps on smiling.

If some awful, horrible thing like a trade war with China hurts Walmart, I won't shed a tear.

[Helene West]

If I give trump the benefit of the doubt (gulp) he may be using 'making a better deal' because it's language the masses can understand.

If he really gets it and has any power at all he knows that the ruling classes have more in common with eachother than they have the race or countries they seemingly belong to. The real deals may be between the corporate aristocracy of the West and the ruling class of the East and citizens of both be damned. For a world that assumes leaders represent the country they appear to represent this concept is a paradigm changer.

I'm not good enough in economics to know if this tariff business can have an impact on americans getting their own central bank again, that is controlling our own economy without the 'federal reserve' of international private families.

If trump is just a business man trying to get 'good deals' then yeah, we may get kicked in the teeth for nothing.

[Valerie Villars]

Almost everything in Walmart is made in China, which drives me crazy. I really think we can do without about 95% of the garbage they sell. I can't stand that store.

And, I have noticed a deterioration of many little things, like screws that don't hold up, get stripped out, etc. I build a lot of stuff and I am just disgusted with the lack of quality from China.

[Foxie Loxie]

I think a lot of people are tired of Walmart....local shopping seems to be making a comeback! :Party:

[DNA]

Sam Walton originally only carried products that were 100% American made.

It wasn't until he died and his evil kids had taken over that things went down hill.

This is true in so far as his employees are concerned as well.

His employees used to get retirement benefits and regular raises that never capped.

As managers come into walmart and take over departments they are given incentives to find reasons to fire older employees who still work under the contract that was initiated by Sam Walton.

Sam Walton wasn't a bad guy, he was actually a very good man, his kids are d!ck heads though.

If the store originally did what it did with American made products it can do so again.

[Kryztian]

As a former U S. manufacturer who saw one product after another get "knocked-off" in China, after having had to continually downsizing the company and loosing sales, after placing smaller orders from suppliers and knowing this was causing them in turn to lay off people, I hearby say "Hurrah, to a Trade war. Go Trump!"

I also thought of myself as being extremely Anti-War, but I am all for trade wars. Not a huge Trump supporter, but I was very encouraged when I heard him mention bringing back tarriffs. At one time the Federal Government derived most of it's revenues from tarrifs.

Let's bring back small manufacturing business and other small businesses here in American. Business who's leaders have a direct connection with all their employees and have a certain degree of caring for them. Let us harding working people extend our arms to the sky with out middle fingers outstretched and proclaim a big joyous harminonious "F*** YOU" to the Bilderbergers, the CFR, the multinationals, the big pharma-military-banking-industrial complex and demand a trade war. If there really is a "good war," then this is it!!!

[Valerie Villars]

I agree DNA. My Mom actually lived next door to him in the early 80's in Arkansas, before he made it big and she said he was a nice man. She made a big deal out of bringing me to the store. It was a little town by Fayetteville.

[ichingcarpenter]

Walmart nor Amazon are your friends as most of us know neither is a trade war. Amazon would be hit hard too but not their CIA account but who would be hit the most is the middle class and the poor ... not the rich.

What happens is that you get a reduction in trade between the US and China and that reduces the size of their economies, which in turn reduces tax receipts and increases government deficits, leads to rising local interest rates and lowers consumption’. So it really doesn't matter if you want to hurt Wal-mart. Most will be hurt who can't afford it. The view outside of the states such as Australia is If you were looking for a pay rise, then hope that a trade war doesn’t eventuate. KPMG expects that if a trade war were to happen, then your income could be cut by $16 per week. That’s assuming you keep your job! KPMG’s report also outlined that they believe that up to 60,000 jobs would be lost in the next decade in Australia alone.

Myopic understandings of the world economy is not rational.

According to Walmart’s corporate website, as of 2018, they’re operating 11,735 locations in

North America:

United States
Canada
Mexico
Central America

Costa Rica
El Salvador
Guatemala
Honduras
Nicaragua
South America

Argentina
Brazil
Chile
Europe

United Kingdom (ASDA)
Africa

Botswana
Ghana
Lesotho
Malawi
Mauritius
Mozambique
Namibia
Nigeria
Swaziland
South Africa
Tanzania
Uganda
Zambia
Zimbabwe
Asia

People’s Republic of China
Japan (Seiyu)
India

[DeDukshyn]

If a statement comes from Walmart I know the opposite is true. They are in it for their own best interests, not ours. ...


So the Trump created trade wars won't have a negative impact on Americans because Walmart said it will? I think your logic fails here ...

Whether or not Walmart says it, everyone else is also saying it and a little applied logic says that Trump is not actually helping USA economically, but instead has just stooped to bullying all it's major trade partners.

For example, Trump is upset that countries won't buy his puss and blood filled hormone milk, but isn't doing a thing to try to improve the quality of the products or raise the US milk farming practices to humane and ethical levels. Instead he says "buy our garbage or I'll put high tariffs on your autos ..." (talking about Canada here) " ... and it will be the 'ruination' of Canada".

Let's let him do it and see what happens.

The actual "ruination" will once again be of the big three American auto makers and he will be forced to bail them out or let them be bought by foreign interests ... again. Good for Americans? Laughable.

Even if a deal was made to sell his milk into Canada, most Canadians I know wouldn't touch the stuff with a ten foot pole - great for Americans, right? You would see overproduction from American farms when they can get into Canada's market, and Canadians will stick to Canadian branded milk products ... good for Americans though? It would be very bad for American milk producers.

Reality doesn't change suddenly just because Walmart says something. The reality is that starting trade wars with their best trading partners, will never be good for Americans.

Trump can't think one step ahead of his self proclaimed leveraging tactics, and rather hilariously, I see that people are actually starting to believe all the lies he spills out in his "negotiating" tactics ... they're just tactics people ... Just keep repeating the lie over and over and eventually people will believe it - part of his strategy, just as it was some other leader in the past who I can't recall right now ... ;)


President Trump boasted in a fundraising speech Wednesday that he made up information in a meeting with the leader of a top U.S. ally ...

... Trump said, mimicking Trudeau, according to audio of the private event in Missouri obtained by The Washington Post.




“Nice guy, good-looking guy, comes in — ‘Donald, we have no trade deficit.’ He’s very proud because everybody else, you know, we’re getting killed.
“... So, he’s proud. I said, ‘Wrong, Justin, you do.’ I didn’t even know. ...


The Office of the United States Trade Representative says the United States has a trade surplus with Canada. It reports that in 2016, the United States exported $12.5 billion more in goods and services than it imported from Canada, leading to a trade surplus, not a deficit.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2018/03/14/in-fundraising-speech-trump-says-he-made-up-facts-in-meeting-with-justin-trudeau/?utm_term=.5cf65f9ae625

His tactic is to blatantly lie and get his supporters to believe it.





The world's automotive industry gathered in Washington with uncharacteristic unity, to deliver a singular message to American policymakers: If you start a trade war with tariffs on cars, you'll shoot yourself in the foot. ...

Some of the loudest voices came from the American auto industry — the companies and workers that the levies are ostensibly trying to protect.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tariffs-canada-automotive-1.4754675

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4755141.1532104361!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_780/auto-tariffs-protest.jpg




Two major auto trade groups on Wednesday warned the Trump administration that imposing tariffs of up to 25 per cent on imported vehicles would cost hundreds of thousands of American auto jobs, dramatically hike prices on vehicles and threaten industry spending on self-driving cars.

A coalition representing major foreign auto makers, including Toyota Motor Corp., Volkswagen AG, BMW AG and Hyundai Motor Co., said the tariffs would harm auto makers and U.S. consumers. The administration in May launched an investigation into whether imported vehicles pose a national security threat and U.S. President Donald Trump has repeatedly threatened to quickly impose tariffs.

“The greatest threat to the U.S. automotive industry at this time is the possibility the administration will impose duties on imports in connection with this investigation,” wrote the Association of Global auto makers representing major foreign auto makers. “Such duties would raise prices for American consumers, limit their choices, and suppress sales and U.S. production of vehicles.”https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/international-business/us-business/article-automakers-warn-us-tariffs-will-cost-hundreds-of-thousands-of-jobs/



Maybe a 10-20% increase in the price Americans pay for cars will be good for them?


Prices of new cars and trucks could jump by several thousand dollars in the U.S. if President Donald Trump follows through on his threat to raise tariffs on imports.

The same likely would hold true even if a particular car is made in the U.S. because analysts believe automakers would spread the cost of tariffs among many different vehicles to avoid putting at a disadvantage any of their models made in foreign markets. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/07/03/car-prices-trump-auto-tariffs/745342002/



Not just foreign car makers saying this ...

The foremost advocacy group for the U.S. automobile industry is urging President Donald Trump to back down from his threat of imposing tariffs on auto imports, warning the move would be “damaging” to the sector.https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/u-s-auto-makers-warn-trump-s-tariffs-would-be-damaging-to-sector-1.1110000

[shaberon]

He can do whatever tariffs if removing the income tax. Tariffs are supposed to be one of the only sources of funds to the Fed. Theoretically they might make it unprofitable to send cheap inferior product.

Without taking their hands off the "point of origin" taxes, it is hard to have a clear perspective about imports.

[DNA]

What happens is that you get a reduction in trade between the US and China and that reduces the size of their economies,


How is a US business supposed to compete with a Nationally subsidized Chinese company using dissidents as slave labor?

Economics shouldn't be based on the idea of multinational companies, economics and it's impacts should first deal with the citizens of countries being impacted.
Trump's economic plan isn't concerned with the bottom line of multinational companies, Trump's economic plan is concerned with creating manufacturing jobs in the US.

Walmarts bottom line doesn't matter because a few uber rich people are recieving all of the profits.

And in the long run if America is depending on Walmart retail jobs to keep it's economy going we are in big trouble.

What the US needs are manufacturing jobs, jobs involved in the production of goods, not in working for a retailer who sells those goods.

Adam Smith created his "invisible hand" economic theory in the 1700's, long before the industrial revolution and the factors he had to work with were incredibly simple compared to the complexity of todays multinational companies and Government subsidiary systems.

[DNA]

Full Article can be read HERE. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/2165185/trump-wont-back-down-us-president-plans-make-trade-war


‘Trump won’t back down’: US president plans to make trade war unbearable for China and bigger than ever, Steve Bannon says



In an exclusive interview, the former White House chief strategist says Beijing was caught off guard by the magnitude of the plan he hatched with Trump





PUBLISHED : Friday, 21 September, 2018, 6:04pm
UPDATED : Friday, 21 September, 2018, 11:28pm


Comments: 352 (https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/2165185/trump-wont-back-down-us-president-plans-make-trade-war#comments)


https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/980x551/public/images/methode/2018/09/21/6a08b4b0-bc9f-11e8-8bc4-fc59ff6846aa_1280x720_180521.JPG?itok=oYTU-bHu









US President Donald Trump’s strategy is to make the trade war with China “unprecedentedly large” and “unbearably painful” for Beijing, and he will not back down before victory, former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon said in an exclusive interview.
Bannon said the aim was not just to force China to give up on its “unfair trade practices” – the ultimate goal was to “re-industrialise America” because manufacturing was the core of a nation’s power.
He also took aim at the “Made in China 2025” plan – an attempt by Beijing to catch up with the West in 10 key technology sectors, saying China was using generous government support to reduce its reliance on the West for future technology.
Bannon, who claimed to have helped Trump draw up the trade war plan, said that in the past, tariffs had been limited to imports of between roughly US$10 billion and US$30 billion but the sheer magnitude of the more than US$500 billion in question this time had “caught Beijing off guard”.
“It’s not just any tariff. It’s tariffs on a scale and depth that is previously inconceivable in US history,” Bannon said.
He said Beijing had relied on “round after round of talks” to take the momentum out of the US punitive measures, but the delaying tactics would not work.
“They always want to have a strategic dialogue to tap things along. They never envisioned that somebody would actually do this.”
https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2018/09/21/b9911270-bc9f-11e8-8bc4-fc59ff6846aa_1320x770_180521.JPG
He and Trump were convinced the US would win – and there were signs the Chinese elite were too, with “so many senior Chinese officials exhausting all channels” to move their money out of China and into real estate in San Francisco, Los Angeles and midtown Manhattan.
“Why [does there have] to be massive capital controls placed on Chinese money? Otherwise all will flee to midtown Manhattan ... They want to buy real assets in the US. That shows you a dramatic lack of confidence in their own economy.”
China and US can avoid trade war - if Beijing stops ‘appropriating our technology’, says Steve Bannon in Hong Kong (https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2110893/bannon-us-flag-trade-probe-findings-xi-trump-summit)

Bannon, who left the Trump administration after a tumultuous seven-month stint, said trade had always been at the top of the campaign strategy – first discussing the idea five years ago with then senator Jeff Sessions, who later become Trump’s attorney general.
“This is where Jeff Sessions and I sat in 2013 as we were trying to imagine what the 2016 presidential election would look like,” Bannon said in his “Breitbart Embassy” townhouse near the Capitol Building in Washington. “We made trade the top issue, when trade was not even among the top 100 issues of the others.”
Trump and Bannon have a turbulent and complex relationship. Although Trump fired Bannon in January and criticised him for his involvement in Fire and Fury, journalist Michael Wolff’s book about the 2016 campaign and early days of the administration, the president was back in contact with Bannon in May, according to The Wall Street Journal. Bannon also insisted that he and the president “see eye to eye” on trade.
He said there was little difference within the US political elite – either Democrat or Republican – on the issue of international trade, and in his first meeting with Trump in 2015, both men agreed that the Washington and Wall Street establishment would “side with China” in the upcoming trade war.
The two decided to change the international trade regime to “dramatically reduce [the US] trade deficit” and to re-industrialise America, especially the so-called rust belt states.
https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2018/09/21/2dd47b4a-bca0-11e8-8bc4-fc59ff6846aa_1320x770_180521.JPG
He said Trump would “never back down in the trade war [with China]”, even though the president anticipated the policy would face “massive resistance domestically and internationally”.
He accused “Western elites” of working with Beijing to make themselves rich. “Our factories got shipped out of here. Wall Street made a fortune. The private equity made a fortune. Right now President Trump’s focus is on stopping it.”
China’s running out of US goods to tax, so what other ways can it hit back in the trade war? (https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/2164907/chinas-running-out-us-goods-tax-so-what-other-ways-can-it-hit)

[Lettherebelight]

Almost everything in Walmart is made in China, which drives me crazy. I really think we can do without about 95% of the garbage they sell. I can't stand that store.

And, I have noticed a deterioration of many little things, like screws that don't hold up, get stripped out, etc. I build a lot of stuff and I am just disgusted with the lack of quality from China.

Valerie Villars, this is so true! Quality of metal and plastic manufactured products from China is extremely poor. They need to up their game in Quality Control.
Western nations consume cheap goods which encourages a ‘throw away and replace’ society.
We need to look at this as a world wide issue.
Homes and landfills are filling up with no longer used products from China.

Yes Foxie Loxie, I think a lot of people have had enough of Walmart.

[chancy]

What happens is that you get a reduction in trade between the US and China and that reduces the size of their economies,


How is a US business supposed to compete with a Nationally subsidized Chinese company using dissidents as slave labor?

Economics shouldn't be based on the idea of multinational companies, economics and it's impacts should first deal with the citizens of countries being impacted.
Trump's economic plan isn't concerned with the bottom line of multinational companies, Trump's economic plan is concerned with creating manufacturing jobs in the US.

Walmarts bottom line doesn't matter because a few uber rich people are recieving all of the profits.

And in the long run if America is depending on Walmart retail jobs to keep it's economy going we are in big trouble.

What the US needs are manufacturing jobs, jobs involved in the production of goods, not in working for a retailer who sells those goods.

Adam Smith created his "invisible hand" economic theory in the 1700's, long before the industrial revolution and the factors he had to work with were incredibly simple compared to the complexity of todays multinational companies and Government subsidiary systems.

Hello DNA and everyone:
I can't help but go back to my opening statement "As soon as they are elected they magically become experts on everything! Case in point "tariffs". Tariffs only hurt the consumer. Governments and Big business don't feel the sting of tariffs until people quit buying because of the price increases on products. The problems with tariffs is the government wins by taxing the people through raising the price of goods coming into the country. The is only 1 (one) winner. GOVERNMENTS.

It appears that people got off the thread by talking about walmart. Because you don't like them doesn't mean they are wrong in what they are saying.
I don't much like walmart but shop there occasionally. A good example why I shop there: name brand oil in the 5 litre jug is 28 dollars. Walmarts brand and name brands they put on sale are 16 dollars for 5 litres. NO ONE else in business at least here in Alberta can offer that kind of a deal.
I could go down the list of products they have on sale that NO ONE else can come close to in price here. Why should I help small businesses steal out of my pocket to build their multi million dollar homes?

DNA you are talking about the elites etc. They already are advantaged. Tariffs don't hurt them at all. The only thing tariffs do are make consumers pay more (tax) which in turn goes into the governments coffers in whatever country you want to talk about.
chancy

[DNA]

Tariffs only hurt the consumer. Governments and Big business don't feel the sting of tariffs until people quit buying because of the price increases on products. The problems with tariffs is the government wins by taxing the people through raising the price of goods coming into the country. The is only 1 (one) winner. GOVERNMENTS.



You are focused only on the consumer here. What about production?

Factor in the variables, you can't just parrot back macroeconomics and think you are contributing anything substantial.

We hear economic theory being parroted back from the pundits every day, it is an antiquated and incorrect way of looking at the world.

[enigma3]

There's another thing going on here with big ramifications. China is currently building a canal in Nicaragua that will be larger than the Panama canal. It will take what they call supercargo ships - that cannot go through the Panama canal, even the enhanced canal. I have read that China is currently building three supercargo ships exclusively for Walmart. So we have an economic relationship between China and Walmart. Thus, they each have a vested interest in seeing the other party/both parties do well. If Walmart perceives that China is being negatively affected by a trade war, it will negatively affect Walmart's bottom line. Therefore, it could be argued that Walmart, in defending China relative to a trade war, is simply acting on their own best interests. Since Walmart has no corporate ethics, these kind of things will happen. China and Walmart. Dysfunctional bedfellows.

[DeDukshyn]

Tariffs only hurt the consumer. Governments and Big business don't feel the sting of tariffs until people quit buying because of the price increases on products. The problems with tariffs is the government wins by taxing the people through raising the price of goods coming into the country. The is only 1 (one) winner. GOVERNMENTS.



You are focused only on the consumer here. What about production?

Factor in the variables, you can't just parrot back macroeconomics and think you are contributing anything substantial.

We hear economic theory being parroted back from the pundits every day, it is an antiquated and incorrect way of looking at the world.

No demand = no production. It's not complex. If people don't want or are not forced into having to lower themselves to cheapy cheapo products due to all the wealth being sucked out of an economy (we know how this happens), then all the cheap garbage goods made won't be bought. They get bought because it is what Americans can afford.

Let's imagine US taxes all Chinese made goods to the value of American made equivalents, with the idea that people, being forced to have to pay way more for Chinese products, no longer has motivation to buy those over American goods, will now buy those American goods, and this will help the US economy by supporting US corporations.

What happens in this simulation? Suddenly, the middle class who was buying cheap Chinese goods, now is forced to buy products they can't really afford. their income is now squeezed tighter and they will be forced to buy less overall and tighten their spending. Let's assume parity on overall expenditure because unless income suddenly greatly increases somehow - they can't spend more. So the economy ends up with the same amount of cash flowing through it, but the consumer is receiving less product.

The value of the difference in product purchase is exactly the taxes that was put on it -- just more money to the government to find to waste on something. The consumer suffers, but the government gains and will have more for the NSA / CIA / military etc. Let's face it, that's where the majority of American tax dollars are going. Bad for consumer great for the elite.

To continue with the simulation, most American manufacturing companies have outsourced production to China. This will be bad for those companies as they will either go belly up or will have to relocate manufacturing to a more expensive place - maybe USA. They lose profits. On the ones that still have manufacturing inside the USA, those corporations may see an increase in sales, and this will be good, but let's keep in mind that the consumer is not spending more, so the overall economy hasn't changed.

All American companies that outsource their manufacturing for strategic advantage lose that advantage. I am talking about American companies.

So we have the government winning more taxes for their wars and their fight vs the masses. In some people's eyes (those extremist trump supporters would be one group) I guess this could be seen as "good for America", but yeah ... no.

We have American companies that outsource manufacturing for strategic advantage, these companies will be hit hard, some might see that as a good sacrifice to make, but more expensive goods will be the result and the consumer will be hurt by this.

We have American companies that manufacture in the USA - this potentially might be good for them, but the consumers that buy their products have limited income and cannot buy more product. The higher prices will hurt the consumer.

So I guess it comes down to how one defines "Americans" ...

The government wins
Some of corporate America's profits wins, much of it loses.
American consumers lose.


Are Americans the US government?
Are Americans Corporate America?
Are Americans the people?

[DeDukshyn]

There's another thing going on here with big ramifications. China is currently building a canal in Nicaragua that will be larger than the Panama canal. It will take what they call supercargo ships - that cannot go through the Panama canal, even the enhanced canal. I have read that China is currently building three supercargo ships exclusively for Walmart. So we have an economic relationship between China and Walmart. Thus, they each have a vested interest in seeing the other party/both parties do well. If Walmart perceives that China is being negatively affected by a trade war, it will negatively affect Walmart's bottom line. Therefore, it could be argued that Walmart, in defending China relative to a trade war, is simply acting on their own best interests. Since Walmart has no corporate ethics, these kind of things will happen. China and Walmart. Dysfunctional bedfellows.

An American company acting in its own self interest? Unheard of!! :) (I hate Walmart as much as the next guy - trust me)

Why can't the USA make it profitable for America's own companies to make a profit without outsourcing? That tells me something is already wrong in the USA and that tariffs or trade wars is just a symptom of that, and a band-aid solution - one of those crappy band-aids that don't stick properly and allows infection to set in later.

As Chancy mentioned as what I thought was obvious, this thread is about trade wars in general not being good for Americans, it just started with comments by Walmart. Again just because they say something doesn't make the opposite true. If only things really were that simple.

[DeDukshyn]

...
Valerie Villars, this is so true! Quality of metal and plastic manufactured products from China is extremely poor. They need to up their game in Quality Control.
Western nations consume cheap goods which encourages a ‘throw away and replace’ society.
We need to look at this as a world wide issue.
Homes and landfills are filling up with no longer used products from China.


One part of the equation that I think is overlooked is the overall western economies. The average wage today is worth about 50% less than it was in 1970. True story. The middle class is getting more and more poor consistently sine the 1970's. Weren't computers supposed to make the country more wealthy by replacing manual labour? Wasn't the internet supposed to reduce costs of communications and increase the wealth of the nation?

Haven't any the techno-promises led to greater wealth??

They have!! For banks and corporate America! All the while the middle class has had it's wealth pillaged by these same entities.

The middle class (the consumer) can afford cheap throw - away Chinese goods. That is why they buy them. They can afford only these product because the wealth has been sucked out of the middle class. Do we actually believe that if Americans could easily afford American made high quality long lasting goods, that they would not buy them and support their own country? American companies often do offer high priced high quality equivalents ... why aren't Americans buying them? They can't afford them!

It is wholly an "American" issue, with Trump pointing all fingers at China.

Herein lies the real problem ... and exactly why American consumers - the middle class, will be hit hard by Trump's trade wars.

[chancy]

Tariffs only hurt the consumer. Governments and Big business don't feel the sting of tariffs until people quit buying because of the price increases on products. The problems with tariffs is the government wins by taxing the people through raising the price of goods coming into the country. The is only 1 (one) winner. GOVERNMENTS.



You are focused only on the consumer here. What about production?

Factor in the variables, you can't just parrot back macroeconomics and think you are contributing anything substantial.

We hear economic theory being parroted back from the pundits every day, it is an antiquated and incorrect way of looking at the world.



You are focused only on the consumer here. What about production?

Factor in the variables, you can't just parrot back macroeconomics and think you are contributing anything substantial.

We hear economic theory being parroted back from the pundits every day, it is an antiquated and incorrect way of looking at the world.


Hello DMA and everyone:

I don't know how you are taking this discussion but you are trying to chew off an allies foot! Yes that's my foot....

I understand completely what is going on in the world. Why do you think I started this thread. Unfortunately most of the people on this thread thought the discussion should be about Walmart.

When it's really about the trade war and the tariffs put on by Trump.
This trade war will not end well. Why is the consumer so important. Well if they don't buy from china, the usa or anywhere else in the world we begin to have a recession. Recessions of this magnitude will hurt everyone and all countries unless they don't import and export. I'm not sure there are many of those countries out there at the moment.

I definitely didn't forget production. Here is an episode of VICE regarding the trade war of Trumps. It doesn't look good and VICE does get it!!!

https://streamplay.me/9ueq27li7wbs

This is Vice s06e17

I personally think Trump has no idea what he is doing in regards to tariffs, but that's just my thoughts on the matter.

We could talk about this subject for days and really the only thing that matters is everyone able to have a job and purchase products they can afford. It just so happens that Walmart is where millions and millions of people shop.

It's interesting in Tennessee how the aluminum plant opens to 450 jobs and 10,000 jobs in Tennessee are lost because of tariffs. How dumb. It needs to work the other way...10,000 new jobs and 450 lost jobs.

chancy

[chancy]

Hello Everyone:

It appears we are at an impass on this topic so PLEASE watch Vice season 6 episode 17 before continually talking about Walmart. THis thread is NOT ABOUT WALMART.
Thank you
chancy

https://streamplay.me/9ueq27li7wbs

This is Vice s06e17

[Ernie Nemeth]

Until the sweeping changes brought about primarily by NAFTA, but now other even broader free trade agreements in the works as well, tariffs were the only way to protect a nations interests in regards to trade. Everything was taxed. The talk was always about lowering trade barriers, ie. tariffs on imports. Tariffs were needed because of the unfair advantage of certain sectors of the economy in select nations. Dedukshyn mentioned milk and other dairy products as an example. Canada imposes a limit on production that keeps the supply of milk comparably low thus increases its cost per volume. USA does not. If USA were to sell milk in Canada it would outcompete Canadian producers and ruin their control of the supply and the quality of the milk.

Free Trade between the three nations of North America has been a disaster for the manufacturing sector of both Canada and the USA with Mexico the clear winner in that regard. However, with the opportunity to move their operations to China, the lucrative eastern market lured most of the manufacturing to its doorstep. The incredible profits fueled the jobless recovery of '08. North Americans happily paid the same price for goods from China, with a price tag a full magnitude less (10% of prior cost) and dubiously of equal quality.

With Americans paying inflated prices for cheap goods, the flow of money to the already filthy rich increased dramatically. The pay of the average worker has stagnated in the last two decades while the pay of top tier positions has increased exponetially. Americans are already falling behind due to the unscrupulous actions of American Capatlists.

Throw in the massive trade imbalance with China and the average American is being fleeced like this is the last fleecing before the rapture. Americans spend a lot of dollars that end up in China. The Chineese do not reciprocate...

With the Sino-American trade agreement that exists today, there is no effective way to address this ever growing trade imbalance. The process can take years and be delayed even longer. China is the big winner in that bit of bargaining.

Canada and USA have been gutted by the free trade agreements. Now, when there is an uptick in job creation, chances are it is in the fast food market or sales clerk positions. The remaining manufacturing jobs have not raised their hourly rates in over twenty years.

If a trade deal is obviously not working, the best and most effective way to counter its ill effects is to impose barriers, disincentives, to level the playing field and make it fair.

The American people are being hurt now, and have been hurting for a long time. It is about time someone attempted to right the wrong.

[chancy]

Hello Everyone:
Who said Trump is going to win the strong tactics? The usa has more to lose than China since China exports to the complete world. Lots of customers
chancy

Link: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/china-cancels-u-trade-talks-080048350.html

article;
China cancels U.S. trade talks: WSJ
[Reuters Videos]
Reuters VideosSeptember 22, 2018

China has canceled upcoming trade talks with the United States and will not send vice-premier Liu He to Washington next week, the Wall Street Journal reported, citing sources. Michelle Hennessy reports.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Chima exports crap. If you want crap, they are your best bet. Unlike Japan, who at least had some pride and improved the quality of their products year after year, the Chineese have no such scrupples. They have no intention of improving their products because they are the masters of 'the knock off' - products that look like the real thing but break almost immediately when put to use. No one will miss Chineese products, except for our disgusting 'captains of industry'.