Sexual Fetishes

[petra]

Does anyone want to contribute some thoughts about where sexual fetishes come from? Or is that stepping over the line? Just delete my posting if I've gone too far. Tried searching forum title's with 0 result - same as with the phobias

General consensus is that fetishes are more common in males too, so I'd love a male perspective. I don't think I have any fetishes, so I'm probably not even qualified to talk about this.

I'm not so interested in what the fetishes ARE specifically, as to where they (could maybe) originate. I'm comparing fetishes to phobias as well. Not as an opposing force, more like 2 inexplicable things which are somewhat related.

[drgreig]

Although the "experts" can all agree on one thing when it comes to sexual fetishes (being that they have NO idea where they come from), I've deduced that from the fact that fetishes always appear to be focussed on non-genital body parts and/or material, non-living objects (i.e. female undergarments, high-heels etc...) that there may very well be a lack in experiencing sexual arousal from a natural, spiritual, non-materialistic way.

Is this merely a product of modern humans who are lacking in a spiritual outlook on life? Very hard to say...

[christian]

I believe anything can be the answer.

Experiences from a past lifetime... I'm sure you'll come across stories of people who remember having experienced something in a past lifetime, who are seeking to somehow repeat this experience because it gives them pleasure.

Then fetishes can also have genetic roots. Two stories that I came across and found curious are the case of the hetero rugby player, who had a stroke and since then became a gay hairdresser (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8878301/Rugby-player-who-had-stroke-woke-up-gay-and-became-hairdresser.html). Or the observation that a foot fetish could possibly result from a cross-wiring between the foot and the genital parts of the brain (https://www.livescience.com/33525-foot-fetishes-toe-suck-fairy.html).

Of course there can be a bazillion other reasons like experiences in this lifetime or social conditioning... Asking where does a sexual fetish come from is in the end a way of asking, "why does a person like something?" The answers to this are as manifold as the wonders of existence.

[AutumnW]

I read about a turkey and tortoise who shared a pen while both recuperated from injuries at a sanctuary. The turkey was within close proximity to the tortoise at a vulnerable stage of brain and turkey personality development. He fell in love with the tortoise...deeply deeply in love. I don't know if that's a Hallmark moment thing or triple X porn, but it sure explains a lot to me.

[Ratszinger]

I've often been puzzled by people and the need for sex since very young. As a youth all my friends, my male friends anyway, were 'horn dogs' basically! I thought of their need for sex as much the same later in life as their need for pot or beer because they seemed to be the same as far as behavior before they found either. I used to laugh and even sometimes pretend to be like them but the truth is when it came to sex anyway I could always take it or leave it. My wife is the same way. Is it a sexual fetish to not want it? I mean I'm 58 and I haven't had sex since I was 49! On purpose! What's more I wish everyone had the relief of no sexual tension in their life like us. My friends from my youth are still horn dogs even now! Go figure! I guess when it comes to sex the wife and I see it sort of like the Sheldon Cooper character on TV, messy, unsanitary and mostly a lot of work and 'YUK!' On second thought I guess if everyone was like us overpopulation would not be a problem survival of the fittest and all. I do find interest in the subject but purely as a curiosity since for whatever reason I don't fully understand the need or desire for it like everyone else.

[greybeard]

What is a fetish to one is probably perfectly normal to someone else.
They get pleasure from it.
We want to label things and want to set a norm to feel safe, separate and sometimes superior as in High ground.

Chris

[Mike]

Freud - surprise surprise - has a few ideas on the topic. But this reads like utter rubbish to me. I don't think it makes the slightest bit of sense.

http://science.jrank.org/pages/9365/Fetishism-Overview-Psychoanalytic-Interventions.html

Maybe I'm becoming a bit of a prude as I get older; I haven't written anything remotely suggestive, and yet I'm already blushing and perspiring (..and still, somewhere in there is a 10 yr old kid who is dying to tell every dick joke he's ever heard. Surely Freud would have something to say about that too)

I think everyone has distortions and irrational preoccupations. They run thru the entire spectrum of one's life, and when that spectrum bleeds into the sexual arena, they manifest as "fetishes".

I think if one grows up in an atmosphere of repression - sexual and otherwise - these distortions will be more pronounced, and the fetishes therefore more strong and frequently expressed. In my opinion, a fetish is an expression of something that has been repressed. I think it can also manifest in response to trauma as well.

They seem to be divided into 2 categories: subservient fetishes and dominant fetishes. Subservient fetishers are usually in positions of power in their daily life, and may want to experience the brief thrill of being dictated to. And the opposite is true of dominant fetishers.

That's a remarkably simple explanation, but i think its generally true.

[Tam]

I have a friend who's very open, sexually. He and I actually discussed this at length, as well as his own fetishes. His own fetishes are quite colorful, among them are BDSM. I'll leave the finer details out, but when I asked him why he was interested in such things sexually (I find nothing wrong with it, as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult), and he told me for him, the exchange of power and control with his husband made their bond stronger, as well as improved trust and communication. He also found it exhilarating and liberating, because it allowed for total rawness with that partner, the kind of intimacy that bares it all. He said that was what appealed to him for BDSM. Later on, he got more hardcore with it, introducing light-to-moderate pain, and his explanation for that is that the contrast of pain/pleasure heightened the pleasure.

So to that end, perhaps some fetishes have no origin, but merely have something to do with our very nature.

Other fetishes, though, I think are rooted in trauma. Incest fetishes would be one of them, as would be rape fantasy.

Of course, there's all kinds of fetishes.out there. Some are wacky, others disturbing, and some of the darker, illegal ones, clearly depraved. But I think most of them are just kinks, something that a person is either born with, or forms due to life experiences, in a sort of Freudian way.

[DeDukshyn]

It can come from various arenas, I'd say. Some of it is intrinsic - I have a friend who has a big thing for a girl's nape. in order to see a girl's nape, she must be in front with her back turned - a submissive position. In animal realms (of which we are part), sex is most often initiated in this position. I'd say there's a deep instinctual component to this, possibly combined with his preference for dominance in a sexual encounter. So that makes sense to me. Just reading Indigris post above, I'd say the concept of power and control is also possibly a part of what I see as this animilistic instinct.

I'd say some fetishes also just come from past experiences in youth that carried a strong emotional (possibly "hormone" driven) response, that allowed an imprint on emotional memory. The memory of this experience creates the desire to replicate it.

In my opinion there's nothing wrong with fetishes at all, some are even really comical, but where someone gets harmed against their will, the line is before that somewhere, before crossing the fetish line into a crime.

[5th]

Obviously a very complex subject and yet another example of how the average person (and even mainstream psychologists) have no idea how the human psyche works.

The main explanation of the origin of fetishes lies in the interruption of the normal energy flow in the body caused by the leaking of emotional energy.

If we look at how animals have sex it is invariably after serious competition between males for mating rights (often even heavy fighting). The human animal is not much different although our competition for mating rights is usually more subtle. But in almost every case the process goes like this:

Competition for the female with high stress - victory and relief of stress - sexual arousal and mating. With humans, even if the first stage does not involve actual competition it certainly involves the high stress of 'getting the girl'.

Now, to a greater or lesser degree every human has repressed traumas from childhood which create varying degrees of constant, unrelieved stress. This interferes with the Stress - Relief of Stress - Sexual Arousal process because there can never be total relief of stress. For the average person who has minimal trauma, this doesn't matter much but for somebody who has a high level of 'background stress' there is never sufficient relief of stress to get normal sexual arousal.

Anyone who is sceptical of this process should research what happen to soldiers in battle. After the battle and when the stress level dies down it is well document that many get erections. Again, young men who drive fast to impress the girl - similar process!

So, if this Stress - Relief of Stress - Sexual Arousal process gets restricted at the second stage, the subject has to introduce a 4th element to achieve sexual arousal and that's where the fetish comes in. The choice of fetish will obviously be subconscious and usually goes back to the first sexual arousal as a baby. For example, a baby who was left on the floor with the mother walking around in bare feet may well end up with a foot fetish.

There are many degrees of extremity depending on the degree of trauma right up to the highest level where a man can only achieve arousal and orgasm if he kills the woman.

[Pam]

I know several people that have sexual fetishes. One of the people relates the fetish to an incident that occurred as a young teenager. He has been trying to recapture the excitement and stimulation of the event ever since. In this case at least it almost seems like an addict, trying to get that first euphoric high back.

[Carmody]

Natural or original methods of imprint and stimulation are now largely missing from the human sphere of life. It is more a roll of the dice, and chance, in what becomes the outliers of the given imprint in sexuality. Which indicate an unknown, unrecognized, and uncontrolled parameter.

The hunter/gatherer days had things being quite different. Where the social and cultural spaces provided the genesis and shape of the imprint, with minor variation.

As Musk noted in his interview with Rogan, humans are mostly limbic. They think they are conscious but that is mostly the ever present ego loop.

[petra]

Thanks for all the contributions everyone. I expected a slap in the face.. and ended up getting lumps of gold instead. I'm really legitimately concerned about "Blood Fetish" and "Poop Fetish" in particular. For anyone who thinks fetishes are not dangerous, I urge you to consider those two. Also just because something can't physically hurt you, does not mean that it isn't dangerous.



...
Anyone who is sceptical of this process should research what happen to soldiers in battle. After the battle and when the stress level dies down it is well document that many get erections. Again, young men who drive fast to impress the girl - similar process!

So, if this Stress - Relief of Stress - Sexual Arousal process gets restricted at the second stage, the subject has to introduce a 4th element to achieve sexual arousal and that's where the fetish comes in. The choice of fetish will obviously be subconscious and usually goes back to the first sexual arousal as a baby. For example, a baby who was left on the floor with the mother walking around in bare feet may well end up with a foot fetish.

There are many degrees of extremity depending on the degree of trauma right up to the highest level where a man can only achieve arousal and orgasm if he kills the woman.

5th's posting scared me the most... way to go 5th lol

That's frightening about killing people to get an orgasm. I probably should have known that exists from watching Criminal Minds, had to stop watching that though (shudder). That's a really dangerous one too, surely.


Is it a sexual fetish to not want it? I mean I'm 58 and I haven't had sex since I was 49! On purpose! What's more I wish everyone had the relief of no sexual tension in their life like us. My friends from my youth are still horn dogs even now! Go figure! I guess when it comes to sex the wife and I see it sort of like the Sheldon Cooper character on TV, messy, unsanitary and mostly a lot of work and 'YUK!' On second thought I guess if everyone was like us overpopulation would not be a problem survival of the fittest and all. I do find interest in the subject but purely as a curiosity since for whatever reason I don't fully understand the need or desire for it like everyone else.

I cracked up at this. Oh my. Yeah... I get excited about NOT having sex too (ha ha), so I find it hard to consider the sexual fetish topic objectively. Comparing with phobias is pretty tricky too, since there seems to me many many more reasons a fetish can occur than a phobia can.


I read about a turkey and tortoise who shared a pen while both recuperated from injuries at a sanctuary. The turkey was within close proximity to the tortoise at a vulnerable stage of brain and turkey personality development. He fell in love with the tortoise...deeply deeply in love. I don't know if that's a Hallmark moment thing or triple X porn, but it sure explains a lot to me.

I think a lot of it must be conditioning. That's what I have been guessing for a lot of fetishes so far. That example reminds me of Stockholm Syndrome.



Of course there can be a bazillion other reasons like experiences in this lifetime or social conditioning... Asking where does a sexual fetish come from is in the end a way of asking, "why does a person like something?" The answers to this are as manifold as the wonders of existence.

Good point, I think this goes deeper though. It's not the same as liking or disliking ketchup. No one gets emotional over ketchup.



Is this merely a product of modern humans who are lacking in a spiritual outlook on life? Very hard to say...

I don't think it's quite like that, but maybe. I feel like it might be more related to the environment than anything else. Dreams, in a way, do kind of contribute to our "environment". It's just imaginary environment.



I think if one grows up in an atmosphere of repression - sexual and otherwise - these distortions will be more pronounced, and the fetishes therefore more strong and frequently expressed. In my opinion, a fetish is an expression of something that has been repressed. I think it can also manifest in response to trauma as well.

They seem to be divided into 2 categories: subservient fetishes and dominant fetishes. Subservient fetishers are usually in positions of power in their daily life, and may want to experience the brief thrill of being dictated to. And the opposite is true of dominant fetishers.

That's a remarkably simple explanation, but i think its generally true.

Well there's a great connection to repression!
Repression is really starting to get on my nerves, and things like that make me question the idea of repression being a "defense mechanism". I suppose it's possible to exploit defense mechanisms though :P

Thanks for pointing out the categories, that's important! S&M is something I vaguely understand the concept of. If I were to lean one way or the other, I guess I'd be the M. Those two categories fit together like puzzle pieces. I'll be back again once I've processed more! :)

[A Voice from the Mountains]

there may very well be a lack in experiencing sexual arousal from a natural, spiritual, non-materialistic way.

Is this merely a product of modern humans who are lacking in a spiritual outlook on life? Very hard to say...

Your answer resonates with me, even though the whole topic of fetishes confuses me.

My interest has always been in the people who can derive lifelong satisfaction in a traditional marriage from "vanilla sex." I've always seen people who have to do circus acts to get each other off as missing something fundamental about the whole experience.

You may have hit the nail on the head with spiritual outlooks vs. materialist outlooks. Some kind of traumatic abuse could probably give someone a bizarre fetish too.

[DeDukshyn]

Although the "experts" can all agree on one thing when it comes to sexual fetishes (being that they have NO idea where they come from), I've deduced that from the fact that fetishes always appear to be focussed on non-genital body parts and/or material, non-living objects (i.e. female undergarments, high-heels etc...) that there may very well be a lack in experiencing sexual arousal from a natural, spiritual, non-materialistic way.

Is this merely a product of modern humans who are lacking in a spiritual outlook on life? Very hard to say...

If what you say is true, truly spiritual people must then not have fetishes? I wonder if there's any stats or anecdotes that can support this?

[petra]

Although the "experts" can all agree on one thing when it comes to sexual fetishes (being that they have NO idea where they come from), I've deduced that from the fact that fetishes always appear to be focussed on non-genital body parts and/or material, non-living objects (i.e. female undergarments, high-heels etc...) that there may very well be a lack in experiencing sexual arousal from a natural, spiritual, non-materialistic way.

Is this merely a product of modern humans who are lacking in a spiritual outlook on life? Very hard to say...

If what you say is true, truly spiritual people must then not have fetishes? I wonder if there's any stats or anecdotes that can support this?

I wonder about that exact same thing. It's certainly not easy to talk about in everyday conversation, and also people tend to lie about it a lot, or simply just not tell the whole truth - because it's embarrassing.



there may very well be a lack in experiencing sexual arousal from a natural, spiritual, non-materialistic way.

Is this merely a product of modern humans who are lacking in a spiritual outlook on life? Very hard to say...

Your answer resonates with me, even though the whole topic of fetishes confuses me.

My interest has always been in the people who can derive lifelong satisfaction in a traditional marriage from "vanilla sex." I've always seen people who have to do circus acts to get each other off as missing something fundamental about the whole experience.

You may have hit the nail on the head with spiritual outlooks vs. materialist outlooks. Some kind of traumatic abuse could probably give someone a bizarre fetish too.

I like vanilla the best - and same applies with my ice cream! (ha ha) I'm not materialistic -or- spiritual really, but I suppose if I had to lean one way, it would be the spiritual way.

I cried when a guy (who I am no longer dating) wanted to try anal sex with me. I was almost going to go along with it, but then I just had to change my mind - I couldn't go through with it. Some females like that I've heard - just not this one.

One thing I've thought of before but not fully explained yet is the idea of conditioning. The idea is, that humans can be conditioned to get turned on by just about anything. For example I read about a man who had a pain fetish a while back, and when he was regressed he remembered being hidden in his mother's closet while she had sex with his uncle. They found him, the uncle beat the crap out of him, and somehow he seemed to have associated the pain with the sex.

The idea of people conditioning fetishes on purpose is something that really disgusts me, because I definitely think that's possible.

In my mind, women on a whole seem to be much more diabolical and vengeful than men are.

Also women have admitted to choosing to be lesbian (I'm sure they have their good reasons), but I've never heard of a man "choosing" to be gay.

I can understand gayness, but I cannot understand bisexuality. I know that's not quite a fetish but I do think it's kind of close. Perhaps those ones are the more spiritual, since they don't seem to have any restrictions.

[greybeard]

Although the "experts" can all agree on one thing when it comes to sexual fetishes (being that they have NO idea where they come from), I've deduced that from the fact that fetishes always appear to be focussed on non-genital body parts and/or material, non-living objects (i.e. female undergarments, high-heels etc...) that there may very well be a lack in experiencing sexual arousal from a natural, spiritual, non-materialistic way.

Is this merely a product of modern humans who are lacking in a spiritual outlook on life? Very hard to say...

If what you say is true, truly spiritual people must then not have fetishes? I wonder if there's any stats or anecdotes that can support this?

Hello DeDukshyn/drgrieg
Spirituality has nothing to do with anything other than Self Realization.
So in theory the "bad guys" have the same chance of enlightenment as everyone else.
Yes some teachers will say you have to purify this and that but others say what you truly are is already perfect etc.
Just a question of seeing that you are not the body/mind and all its wants needs and desires.
There are that many of them there is no way you can get rid of all of them--trying a waste of time.
Spirituality is not about becoming a Saint.
Let him without sin throw the first stone and who is to say what is a sin?
Fetish is part of human nature o it would not be there.
Some are acceptable and some are not in the eyes of so called norm.

Chris

[DeDukshyn]

Although the "experts" can all agree on one thing when it comes to sexual fetishes (being that they have NO idea where they come from), I've deduced that from the fact that fetishes always appear to be focussed on non-genital body parts and/or material, non-living objects (i.e. female undergarments, high-heels etc...) that there may very well be a lack in experiencing sexual arousal from a natural, spiritual, non-materialistic way.

Is this merely a product of modern humans who are lacking in a spiritual outlook on life? Very hard to say...

If what you say is true, truly spiritual people must then not have fetishes? I wonder if there's any stats or anecdotes that can support this?

Hello DeDukshyn/drgrieg
Spirituality has nothing to do with anything other than Self Realization.
So in theory the "bad guys"
...
Chris

So your indicating that people with fetishes are the "bad guys"? :P

I'm just having fun with "label play", but there is a point to be made about humans seeming to need/desire to classify things along a 'good/bad', 'spiritual/secular' scale as a way of some form of validation.
And I know you are acutely aware of this fallacy Chris, hence your appropriate use of quotes around "bad", and well, the rest of your post that explains it delicately. :)

Just playing a bit of devil's advocate, as I often do. :)

[greybeard]

Ha "Bad Guys" are in " which changes the meaning, its like tongue in cheek.
I like playing with words. Scottish use of English takes poetic liberties.
There are no bad guys as such--- as long as they dont take liberties with me or mine--smiling

Ch

[Olam]

Could it be a cultural phenomenon?
If I am not mistaken, fetishes are not taboo and generally accepted socially, or at least seen as one sexual option by the masses even if you don't participate or agree with the particular event.
Its as if , under the cover of it being a fetish, humans are free to explore the fringes of sexual expressions in a safe way.
I don't even know if I myself have one..!
Is having a penchant for dark haired women versus blondes considered a fetish?

:-)

[Anchor]

The thread is specifically about sexual fetish.


Is having a penchant for dark haired women versus blondes considered a fetish?

If one aroused you because of that quality and the other didn't, then that would be an indicator of sexual fetish.


Does anyone want to contribute some thoughts about where sexual fetishes come from?

The mind plays its part in sex strongly and so far as I know, fetishes are a quality of mind. Minds are also programmable, and the mind's natural flow can be diverted. Such distortion can arise by either by experience in this or other lifetimes and manifest as a sexual fetish.

In particular, one's first sexual experiences are where any number of distortions will take root in the mind - consciously or subconsciously.


Could it be a cultural phenomenon?

Societies tend to proscribe certain things as taboo - and I think that this can work to intensify the programming.

--

I have some general comments for this interesting thread.

Sex starts with the red-ray, the base chakra - with reference to the best known and most exoteric 7 chakra system.

I harbor a suspicion that a lot of fetish is expressed at the lower level - in the domain of the lower two chakras (red/orange).

So far as I know, basic physical sex need not involve much more than those one or two chakras.

It works upward once underway - sex with a loving, open partner will engage more than just red ray (green, yellow, orange) - red ray arousal is still part of that process though. If a fetish meeting expression helps with that AND there is no abridgement of free will who will judge against it?

Personally I cant see the harm in any sexual behavior, informed by fetish or otherwise, so long as for any participant there is no harm. Do as you/your partner/or group wilt and have fun.

Sex used to be referred to more as "making love".

I like this expression because isn't it best when love is expressed when engaging in sex? Even if you don't recognize it as that, doesn't that exchange of energies feel amazing?

I have experienced sex without it, and to be honest, fun though it may be on some level, such sex which expresses only through the base chakra (red-ray energy) is not really fulfilling in any higher sense. I might as well have been servicing myself.

Once the base arousal is out the way, and you engage all the lower chakras from heart downward, those fetishes will ultimately melt away as an unnecessary component of the sexual dance.

Anchor..

PS: Everything I wrote above only really works for service to others oriented people. I don't envy the service to self individual as sex must get very complicated for them, and is a tool for a one way energy transfer and in a manner that does not involve the green ray where love is expressed.

[pueblo]

From what I understand it all goes wrong with sexuality when it passes from the purely physical to the mental.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I believe much of sexual fetishes comes from our puritanical upbringing and our unhealthy sexual hang-ups. Sexual deviancy is another matter. That has its roots in mental illness and often childhood trauma.

I like women's feet, mostly because as a child I had foot issues (low arches) so I was over-sensitized to this body part. I really like high, strong arches. But that's it - I like the look of them. They otherwise hold no sexual attraction. Nor do I have fantasies about them.

I'd like to know what members would consider is the difference between fetish and fantasy. I have fantasy situations that I find very erotic but they are just fantasy and are erotic mainly because they are scenarios I would never play out in real life. Is that a fetish? Or does fantasy point to sexual repression, deviancy, and latent tendencies?

[petra]

Although the "experts" can all agree on one thing when it comes to sexual fetishes (being that they have NO idea where they come from), I've deduced that from the fact that fetishes always appear to be focussed on non-genital body parts and/or material, non-living objects (i.e. female undergarments, high-heels etc...) that there may very well be a lack in experiencing sexual arousal from a natural, spiritual, non-materialistic way.

Is this merely a product of modern humans who are lacking in a spiritual outlook on life? Very hard to say...

If what you say is true, truly spiritual people must then not have fetishes? I wonder if there's any stats or anecdotes that can support this?

Hello DeDukshyn/drgrieg
Spirituality has nothing to do with anything other than Self Realization.
So in theory the "bad guys" have the same chance of enlightenment as everyone else.
Yes some teachers will say you have to purify this and that but others say what you truly are is already perfect etc.
Just a question of seeing that you are not the body/mind and all its wants needs and desires.
There are that many of them there is no way you can get rid of all of them--trying a waste of time.
Spirituality is not about becoming a Saint.
Let him without sin throw the first stone and who is to say what is a sin?
Fetish is part of human nature o it would not be there.
Some are acceptable and some are not in the eyes of so called norm.

Chris

This is the same conclusion I've come to.

Sexual fetishes don't have anything to do with spirituality, I absolutely don't think so.

Just because I think/feel something is gross, that doesn't mean it is BAD.

As for "human nature" though - I don't use that phrase anymore. There's no such thing as "human nature" to me, it's just nature.

[greybeard]

I think there is a difference between Sexual Fetish and being deviant--though the border line is a bit fuzzy.
Most sexual fetishes would find another person willing to take part.

Chris

[petra]

I've been contemplating fetishes a lot on a personal level. There once was a time when I thought I needed to "grow sexually" in order to grow as a person, but I've discarded that mentality and decided to be more objective about it, hence the thread.

I thought I was Asexual (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexuality) for a while, then I was sure I was, and now I am not sure anymore. It's very confusing!



Once the base arousal is out the way, and you engage all the lower chakras from heart downward, those fetishes will ultimately melt away as an unnecessary component of the sexual dance.

Anchor..

PS: Everything I wrote above only really works for service to others oriented people. I don't envy the service to self individual as sex must get very complicated for them, and is a tool for a one way energy transfer and in a manner that does not involve the green ray where love is expressed.

Hi Anchor, I was hoping to hear about chakras as well, thanks. It's a bit over my head but still very interesting, and your wording "melt away" and "unnecessary" resonates with me greatly. I'm sure this must tie into our subconscious as well.

The only thing I understand about chakras is they can be locked/unlocked, correct me if I am wrong. Seems like this could be key, pardon the pun.

The idea I'm getting so far is that the "deviant kind" of fetishes could "hold people back" in their growth, so to speak. I'm just guessing of course. I can certainly see how something like that would be extremely distracting to the person experiencing it.

[pueblo]

From what I understand it all goes wrong with sexuality when it passes from the purely physical to the mental.

This is what I was getting at....when sex stays in the body, it's just sex. when it moves to the mind it's an illness.

(3:23)
i_6OYxFmsSs

[hermit]

I read about a turkey and tortoise who shared a pen while both recuperated from injuries at a sanctuary. The turkey was within close proximity to the tortoise at a vulnerable stage of brain and turkey personality development. He fell in love with the tortoise...deeply deeply in love. I don't know if that's a Hallmark moment thing or triple X porn, but it sure explains a lot to me.

Thanksgiving menu is gonna be odd this year I guess... ;)

[Anchor]

Hi Anchor, I was hoping to hear about chakras as well, thanks. It's a bit over my head but still very interesting, and your wording "melt away" and "unnecessary" resonates with me greatly. I'm sure this must tie into our subconscious as well.

The only thing I understand about chakras is they can be locked/unlocked, correct me if I am wrong. Seems like this could be key, pardon the pun.

Recently I have been learning about trantric sex and there is inevitably some discussion around chakras and how the energy flows.

You don't need to understand engines to drive a car well, but it can help to some degree and I think the same applies to chakras and bodies.

Chakras are nexus of energy flows. Distortion in those flows, impedes efficiency and the processes associated with that energy.

Maintenance for chakra's is primarily meditation and/or mindful physical practices such as yoga. They "key" as you put it, in my opinion, is silence and meditation.

Everything I learned so far is don't worry about chakras, they will take care of themselves - but do the meditation and look after the body/instrument so as to optimize its usefulness to you.

When I talk about "engaging" a chakra, its not from the perspective of any kind of special mental/consciousness gymnastics, effort or technique; rather, it is about expressing what they represent. So I don't think, I am activating my green ray / green chakra, its more like just expressing love of being loving. For red ray, for me, as a male, I (suppose) it is about expressing power/passion. Orange - consciousness of self, yellow - consciousness/interaction with the energy of otherself, green - loving. (and Blue - communication, Indigo - sacred self, Violet - connection with all (spiritual counterpart of red, and expresses sum of you). These are imprecise examples for a flavor, I really feel I shouldn't try to say much because I am no authority here and there is lots of material out there with better teachers of it.


The idea I'm getting so far is that the "deviant kind" of fetishes could "hold people back" in their growth, so to speak. I'm just guessing of course. I can certainly see how something like that would be extremely distracting to the person experiencing it.

In this context I think deviant is somewhat judgemental. What we recognize as deviant is simply something we perceive (at the time) to be imperfect when compared to the the ideals one may hold for what one considers perfect in creation, but do we really know what that is? What is deviant to one, may not be to another. I think that a perceived deviant behavior/fetish/preference is just its own lesson and catalyst for ones path. In any case, I maintain that "Deviant" or any peculiar preference that does not result in harm or infringe on freewill, is acceptable.

We are all individuals, the pure white light of creation shines into us and is refracted through the prisms of our being. Each of our prisms is different, and thus the spectrum we express into "reality" is unique as is the impact we have on it. Deviant preference/behavior, fetishes, etc are all part of that uniqueness. There is no error in how this happens, just opportunity and catalyst - the scenery of our own journey, sometimes shared with fellow travellers, sometimes just alone in the quietness of the self.

[greybeard]

Tantric is whole other subject and really deserves a thread of its own
I studied this quite some time ago--most information on this forgotten now.
Mantak Chia wrote some good books on the subject.
Needs quite a lot of self control but the health benefits are good.
I suppose it could be called a fetish because its not usual practise.
However I think the word fetish seems judgmental--who is to say whats normal?

Chris

[petra]

The idea I'm getting so far is that the "deviant kind" of fetishes could "hold people back" in their growth, so to speak. I'm just guessing of course. I can certainly see how something like that would be extremely distracting to the person experiencing it.

In this context I think deviant is somewhat judgemental. What we recognize as deviant is simply something we perceive (at the time) to be imperfect when compared to the the ideals one may hold for what one considers perfect in creation, but do we really know what that is? What is deviant to one, may not be to another. I think that a perceived deviant behavior/fetish/preference is just its own lesson and catalyst for ones path. In any case, I maintain that "Deviant" or any peculiar preference that does not result in harm or infringe on freewill, is acceptable.

We are all individuals, the pure white light of creation shines into us and is refracted through the prisms of our being. Each of our prisms is different, and thus the spectrum we express into "reality" is unique as is the impact we have on it. Deviant preference/behavior, fetishes, etc are all part of that uniqueness. There is no error in how this happens, just opportunity and catalyst - the scenery of our own journey, sometimes shared with fellow travellers, sometimes just alone in the quietness of the self.

Thanks Anchor, and yes you're quite right, calling something deviant is actually very judgemental...

I don't feel I'm purposefully making a judgement though, my stomach just turns at the thought of "deviant fetishes" (which in my mind means un-natural ones).

I should have said perverted. It's just as judgemental, but it's a better word for what I am describing. I'm describing perversion of the pure.

Maybe that's nonsense - I just feel very strongly that some desires are not natural (like butt-sex... and that's not even the worst in my mind!)

We're all unique expressions, so everyone's experience is different. I get that part. I just think we just need to be on alert for what we judge to be inappropriate for ourselves, in our own minds.

The "no error" part I find debatable - this just seems way too touchy and delicate to have no room for error. Maybe our sexual attractions are "working as intended", but I don't think in every case, simply because my own attractions have gone haywire. In some cases I think it could be a spiritual warfare tactic aimed towards people who are beginning to "wake up", especially in regard to mind control tactics.

[Anchor]

I should have said perverted. It's just as judgemental, but it's a better word for what I am describing. I'm describing perversion of the pure.

My perspective is biased and heavily informed by my study and alignment with the law of one. Consequently, I would use the term "distortion".

Perversion is a societal concept. It changes through the ages.


Maybe that's nonsense - I just feel very strongly that some desires are not natural (like butt-sex... and that's not even the worst in my mind!)

I have male homosexual friends that would be disappointed to hear that! Sexual expression will find an outlet, even with a mismatch of parts.

For most sexually active people, preferences are not constrained to minimum activities necessary for pro-creation - which I suppose is the baseline of what "natural" might mean in this context. A lot of people take active steps to avoid unwanted pregnancy in order to freely enjoy sexual activity. Contraception is considered by some, "unnatural", and there will be some among those that considering it perversion to do so. Lot of judgement to go around here.

Sex has an extraordinarily wide spectrum of expression and is a fundamental lever in all mature human minds. For this reason, it is a potent weapon of manipulation, obviously evident in advertising, but also in general entertainment (entrainment) media.

At one end of the spectrum sex allows extreme bliss and harmony, with pure sexual energy exchange between a well matched couple, and at the other be a tool of extreme darkness (harm, torture, control, pain etc).

You have touched on an interesting topic that, in times past, had to be eschewed from this forum as any discussion of sex and sexuality and opinions of it, always ended up causing a big ruckus on the forum. Its great that we have moved up the maturity curve to have a thread like this last two pages without any one getting suspended or warned :)

[Ratszinger]

Sex isn't always about sex but about utilizing the energies that sexual desire can generate and transmuting them into something else, like psychic energy as an example. As a student of the Runes and having studied them over a period of years I've come across many of the old world writings at times.
In Nordic communities it was mostly the women that were the psychics, or intuitives, or deviners but men did this also and had to learn through the Mother the ways of bringing up their energy so as to be able to do so when out in their boats on the seas and no women were present!

So you see the women were feared due to the energy they created around them at some times of each month in particular and especially young women just coming of age. This was a spooky time to live if you were a woman. I mean for example imagine traveling on a rough sea and you are woman among others and there are men also. One of the men sees some blood in between your legs and becomes spooked! You are menstruating he exclaims and the entire crew now is spooked and worried that the energies this woman who hid her power may cause them all to die by bringing lightning or some other such thing to them. So they throw the woman off and check the others!

Poltergeists phenom were quite common among them and written about, taught in their religion and they had women priestesses and shaman and they greatly feared the coming of age woman. Old sailors tales speak of this and how these energies were utilized and tapped, transmuted in for other 'sometimes nefarious' reasons. There are clans still teaching this in some places.

For the Shaman when away from women of his kind he was taught to use sensual and sexual desire to read the signs and the runes.

The ART OF THE SHAMAN: Without the Matar the Patar was instructed to prepare by stimulating himself through the scents of his woman, through the images of his love and he would arouse himself in his tent in private! Using scents, imagination and various drugs he would take himself near to explosion with desire and then stop and hold this energy! It would be redirected at that time with his will in prayer to Odin the great originator of all that he would be allowed the gift of sight to read the energies of a new people, a new chief, a new trade deal and so on and asking out loud having transmuted the sexual energies for purposes sacrificed Odin for sight he would then cast the runes having meditated on his verbal question.
During the day as the shaman would ride or come upon beauty in the world he would also be aware of stimulus energies and those things that stir one up to desire. Desire was used to transmute it whether it be desire for lustful sex, food, drink, it all involved sacrificing one thing you really wanted to ODIN so that he may grant you another lesser thing temporarily so that you may use it and so long as you were in good stead with the lord this relationship was maintained. We see this still in some Roman tales of the sacrifice, usually of something like a loved pet or slave in order to make one of higher rank healthy or well or whatever. It carried over in many cultures after the old world collapsed.

The Runic Workbook by Tony Willis is one of the first books I came across when I began my Runic study and although it is a workshop of exercises it is also a great history of the Teutonic legends, myths, number, planetary and landscape knowledge of the time they lived. There are several volumes of these now, each a deep dive into the past on how they used the energies of life and the energies of the serpent that spit, that holy seed! Holy water in this time had sperm in it. That was considered the most potent energy.

[petra]

Maybe that's nonsense - I just feel very strongly that some desires are not natural (like butt-sex... and that's not even the worst in my mind!)

I have male homosexual friends that would be disappointed to hear that! Sexual expression will find an outlet, even with a mismatch of parts.

Oh snap! That's not really what I meant to imply, and very good point. I just didn't want to say the ones I think are the worst... and I still don't want to. Point taken.



You have touched on an interesting topic that, in times past, had to be eschewed from this forum as any discussion of sex and sexuality and opinions of it, always ended up causing a big ruckus on the forum. Its great that we have moved up the maturity curve to have a thread like this last two pages without any one getting suspended or warned :)

That could explain why I wasn't able to find anything about fetishes in the search too. I can only imagine.

I'm absolutely elated at the maturity level. This isn't a topic which I could safely talk about with my close friends (for fear of losing them). It's not that my friends are immature, it's just a very uncomfortable topic, and really not worth risking my friendships over.