Thousands of US-bound, UN backed, migrants storm Guatemala-Mexico border

[norman]

Alex Jones is saying that this is a coordinated invasion of America plan, deliberately, and timed, by the UN and Alexander Soros in cahoots with Obama and his stay-behind shadow government. (Alexander Soros is the son of billionaire George Soros (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros) and Susan Weber Soros ) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Weber_Soros)

The MSM is currently under stating the numbers and waiting for the caravan to storm the US border, around the time of the mid term elections, before unleashing a media storm as tens of thousands of (quite healthy looking) famine/poverty refugees provide the optics for a democrat win.


Thousands of migrants have arrived at the Mexico-Guatemala border, with some climbing over the fence separating the two countries. US President Donald Trump has threatened to close the US-Mexico border and call in the military.

https://cdni.rt.com/files/2018.10/article/5bca1f2cdda4c88f3d8b45dc.png

Photos posted online show some of the migrants breaking down the fence's gate and continuing towards the border bridge.


Mexican television footage showed the migrants being met by dozens of riot police on the bridge who blocked them from entering Mexico. Some could be seen jumping into the river below to get around the block.


More than 3,000 migrants are demanding they be let into Mexico, and ultimately through to the US, with many heard chanting “We want to work!”


Others shouted, "We are not smugglers, we are immigrants!"

Most of the migrants are from Honduras, but some have joined the caravan from other Central American countries.


https://vgy.me/N5KDXg.jpg



On Thursday, Trump referred to the caravan as an "assault on our country," citing "criminal elements and drugs pouring in." He encouraged Mexico to "stop this onslaught."


He later thanked (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1053056054295113728) Mexico for sending police and riot gear to the Mexico-Guatemala border, saying that the US looks forward to working with the country.


Earlier on Friday, Mexican Foreign Minister Luis Videgaray vowed to meet the “challenge” of the caravan, after holding talks with US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in Mexico City.


https://vgy.me/YfrmXS.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d1/Alexander_Soros_on_March_9_2012.jpg/220px-Alexander_Soros_on_March_9_2012.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Weber_Soros)
Alexander Soros

[Soullight]

The caravan has turned around at Mexican border. That’s good cause it would have gotten ugly if they came up here.

https://nypost.com/2018/10/19/migrant-caravan-heading-for-us-turns-around-in-mexico/

https://www.hannity.com/media-room/caravan-solution-us-mexican-authorities-agree-on-plan-to-stop-migrants-at-border/

[norman]

The caravan has turned around at Mexican border. That’s good cause it would have gotten ugly if they came up here.

https://nypost.com/2018/10/19/migrant-caravan-heading-for-us-turns-around-in-mexico/



From the quoted link:


President Trump has issued repeated threats to yank US aid to Honduras and deploy the US military to quash the caravan before it reaches the United States.

What on earth did that mean?

US military entering Mexico? Must have been quite a phone call, or Pompeo meeting.

[Bubu]

The first step to equality and a better world is to dissolve borders and factions.

"Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace, you
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world, you
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one"

[Bill Ryan]

The first step to equality and a better world is to dissolve borders and factions.



Factions, yes. Different cultures, no.

And dissolving borders is what the EU has been trying to do for years, as a means of dissolving cultures.

[Soullight]

What on earth did that mean?

It probably means don’t mess with the USA. We’re not going to tolerate any of the Cabal’s tricks, especially their devious ones where they shield their attempts with women and children. Sick!

p.s. People get so caught up by their ideals and heart strings (just like the Cabal wants) and think everything should be open and free or whatever. Yet these same well intended people have no real functional real time and real world ideas of how to fix our world.

[Bubu]

The first step to equality and a better world is to dissolve borders and factions.



Factions, yes. Different cultures, no.

And dissolving borders is what the EU has been trying to do for years, as a means of dissolving cultures.

yes Bill but what's in the culture anyway? popular beliefs and dogmas. I will go for dissolving cultures as well so that a new culture will be born. One that is base on mans primal instincts. something that is definitely different more likely opposite than the adulterated culture we have now. Mixture of cultures can be nasty at first but with the proper guides and guidance (the ones in power just right off will certainly take advantage of it.) Maybe the new era will usher us into a new common good culture. Dissolve borders and dissolve cultures make way for a better one... when we are ready

[Builder]

This only supports the "building walls" camp, why would Trump enemies be behind it?

IMHO the usual baseless Alex Jones fear porn.

[AriG]

The first step to equality and a better world is to dissolve borders and factions.



Factions, yes. Different cultures, no.

And dissolving borders is what the EU has been trying to do for years, as a means of dissolving cultures.

I don’t know. From my perspective the US culture could stand some improvement. But that said we really don’t have culture here. Drive from Michigan to Florida and get off at any suburban exit and ask yourself where you are? Any town USA. And then there’s this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MwN5nDajWs

And if the US is going to Imperialistically plunder nations, should it not at the very least be required to offer asylum to the victims of its actions??

https://medium.com/s/story/timeline-us-intervention-central-america-a9bea9ebc148

[Bill Ryan]

yes Bill but what's in the culture anyway? popular beliefs and dogmas. I will go for dissolving cultures as well so that a new culture will be born.


History
Traditions and Customs
Music
Art
Stories
Language and Literature

I'd suggest all of those are valuable. Ask any Native American, Tibetan, Aborigine, Maori, or San 'Bushman'. Or even a Scotsman, Irishman, or Catalan. Maybe even a Frenchman, currently living in Paris.

Ask any Mayan priest who might have still been alive when ALL their books were being burned. (Just 3 or 4 remain.)

From the point of view of the Spanish, they were just burning valueless 'beliefs and dogmas' as well.

[AriG]

yes Bill but what's in the culture anyway? popular beliefs and dogmas. I will go for dissolving cultures as well so that a new culture will be born.


History
Traditions and Customs
Music
Art
Stories
Language and Literature

I'd suggest all of those are valuable. Ask any Native American, Tibetan, Aborigine, Maori, or San 'Bushman'. Or even a Scotsman, Irishman, or Catalan. Maybe even a Frenchman, currently living in Paris.

Ask any Mayan priest who might have still been alive when ALL their books were being burned. (Just 3 or 4 remain.)

From the point of view of the Spanish, they were just burning valueless 'beliefs and dogmas' as well.

Well said - does make one wonder though- what would the world look like today if the first Torah had been burned..And why were all the ancient iraqi artifacts destroyed by rebels.? At first glance it’s a horror but upon contemplation it might have served as a means of liberation from ancient chains? This could be its own thread- really fascinating!

[Bubu]

Music, art, stories, language a cocktail of thousand cultures wouldn't that be interesting at the least. Imagine me cooking for you a dish you haven't heard of and at the same time not expecting you to eat. a diverse culture cocktail anchored on mutual respect and acceptance. So what do we have now? A culture that revolves around money; superiority and false god that begets greed corruption and all the negativity. Truly we need to dissolve such a culture be liberated from the past chains and start over again.

I'm a traveler I hoop from place to place. But I dont do the usual go to a hotel and see the beautiful places. I live, work like a local on that locality. Its always exciting to witness other culture and learn new things and share them my culture.

[Star Tsar]

We have to bear in mind what the purpose of the human experiment is...

[Pam]

The first step to equality and a better world is to dissolve borders and factions.

"Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace, you
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world, you
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one"

Think what you said through to an outcome in the world we currently have today. Not the world spoken of in the Lennon song, which I love, incidentally. I like what that song says on an ideological level but the reality would be oh so different. In the US we are not even taking care of the citizens we have. I realize that is because they are giving low priority and money goes to other things, but do you think it is a good idea to let anyone swarm in here just because they want to. Do you have any idea how much it will cost to house, give medical attention, food stamps and welfare for these people? If a first group is allowed to just come in, there will be hordes more. What about applying for citizenship? We talk about the virtues of globalism like it is the brotherhood of man, all the while the world is set up with nationalities and different cultures. This push for globalism is about creating more control, nothing else.

Describe to me if you will, how the world will really work once you just knock down those borders? Like I said ideologically that sounds well and good, but what about reality?

I don't mean to sound like a wet blanket, but one thing I have learned over the years is you work with what you have, you start from where you are, not where you think you'd like to be.

[Pam]

21 Oct 2018468

CIUDAD HIDALGO, Mexico (AP) — The Latest on the caravan of Central American migrants hoping to reach the United States (all times local):

7:40 a.m.

A migrant caravan whose numbers swelled overnight to an estimated 5,000 people at the Mexico-Guatemala border has resumed its march toward the U.S. frontier.

The migrants had grown frustrated with Mexico’s attempts to process them and circumvented authorities by crossing the Suchiate river illegally.

They have begun walking out of the border city of Ciudad Hidalgo at first light Sunday morning, headed 10 abreast for their next stop: the city of Tapachula.

It’s not immediately clear where the additional travelers materialized from.

But during a caravan last spring, many migrants who had been working and living at the Guatemala-Mexico border decided to join the caravan when it passed because it was safer to travel together.

___

5 a.m.

Despite Mexican efforts to stop them at the border, about 2,000 Central American migrants swam or rafted across a river separating that country from Guatemala, re-formed their mass caravan in Mexico and vowed to resume their journey toward the United States.

The migrants say they gave up trying to enter Mexico legally because the asylum application process was too slow. They gathered Saturday at a park in the border city of Ciudad Hidalgo and voted by a show of hands to continue north en masse, then marched to the bridge crossing the Suchiate River and urged those still on it to come join them.

The decision to re-form the migrant caravan Saturday capped a day in which Mexican authorities again refused mass entry to migrants on the bridge. Instead they accepted small groups for asylum processing and giving out 45-day visitor permits to some.


https://www.breitbart.com/news/the-latest-growing-migrant-caravan-renews-march-to-us/

[norman]

Music, art, stories, language a cocktail of thousand cultures wouldn't that be interesting at the least. Imagine me cooking for you a dish you haven't heard of and at the same time not expecting you to eat. a diverse culture cocktail anchored on mutual respect and acceptance. So what do we have now? A culture that revolves around money; superiority and false god that begets greed corruption and all the negativity. Truly we need to dissolve such a culture be liberated from the past chains and start over again.

I'm a traveler I hoop from place to place. But I dont do the usual go to a hotel and see the beautiful places. I live, work like a local on that locality. Its always exciting to witness other culture and learn new things and share them my culture.

Imagine all that diversity gone for ever, just because we got hold of the wrong end of the stick when trying to solve the world's problems.

We should round up the crooks, not cave in to their crookery.

Right now, nations are a legal blockade against the advance of the corporate world order. If they go, we'll be reduced to liking each other on facebook, and other forms of supine behavioural defeat.

[Praxis]

When go on your anti immigrants rants, maybe you should all remember you are actually talking about Bill Ryan.

He is an immigrant.

If norman were Ecuadoran, he would be demanding that the"hoards" leave his country which would include Bill.


I am surprised Bill to see you support Norman and his beliefs considering you are in his crosshairs.


Now lets look at why Honduras is in a place that many of its citizens want to flee.

"In the late nineteenth century, Honduras granted land and substantial exemptions to several US-based fruit and infrastructure companies in return for developing the country's northern regions. Thousands of workers came to the north coast as a result to work in banana plantations and other businesses that grew up around the export industry. Banana-exporting companies, dominated until 1930 by the Cuyamel Fruit Company, as well as the United Fruit Company, and Standard Fruit Company, built an enclave economy in northern Honduras, controlling infrastructure and creating self-sufficient, tax-exempt sectors that contributed relatively little to economic growth. American troops landed in Honduras in 1903, 1907, 1911, 1912, 1919, 1924 and 1925.[31]
"

Do you know the term banana republic? Yeah.

So America and its corporations, which norman is apparently worried about, destroyed this country in the past.

Now its people have nothing and suffer through civil wars and coups. No wonder they want to leave.

You are all treating the events now like they started today and are not connected to the past.

[norman]

Praxis, unless Bill Ryan is actively plotting with the world's biggest crooks to wipe out human liberty, he is not in my 'cross hairs'.

Even practicing idiots, who can't see the wood for the trees. are not in my cross hairs. They do piss me off tho'

[Bubu]

Describe to me if you will, how the world will really work once you just knock down those borders? Like I said ideologically that sounds well and good, but what about reality?

I don't mean to sound like a wet blanket, but one thing I have learned over the years is you work with what you have, you start from where you are, not where you think you'd like to be.

did I say just knock down the borders?

"Mixture of cultures can be nasty at first but with the proper guides and guidance (the ones in power just right off will certainly take advantage of it.) Maybe the new era will usher us into a new common good culture. Dissolve borders and dissolve cultures make way for a better one... when we are ready"

There is a right and wrong way to do the right things

[Bubu]

Music, art, stories, language a cocktail of thousand cultures wouldn't that be interesting at the least. Imagine me cooking for you a dish you haven't heard of and at the same time not expecting you to eat. a diverse culture cocktail anchored on mutual respect and acceptance. So what do we have now? A culture that revolves around money; superiority and false god that begets greed corruption and all the negativity. Truly we need to dissolve such a culture be liberated from the past chains and start over again.

I'm a traveler I hoop from place to place. But I dont do the usual go to a hotel and see the beautiful places. I live, work like a local on that locality. Its always exciting to witness other culture and learn new things and share them my culture.

Imagine all that diversity gone for ever, just because we got hold of the wrong end of the stick when trying to solve the world's problems.

We should round up the crooks, not cave in to their crookery.

Right now, nations are a legal blockade against the advance of the corporate world order. If they go, we'll be reduced to liking each other on facebook, and other forms of supine behavioural defeat.

geeeee you dont lose the lemon when you mix it in, it just add flavor to the cocktail.

[Praxis]

So I am to understand that it is not the immigrants that are the problem, but only the ones that are actively and knowingly trying to "destroy human liberty" whatever that means?


I am sorry I piss you off norman. I try to keep my stupidity in check but it gets the better of me sometimes.

[Bill Ryan]

When go on your anti immigrants rants, maybe you should all remember you are actually talking about Bill Ryan.

He is an immigrant.

If norman were Ecuadoran, he would be demanding that the"hoards" leave his country which would include Bill.


Well, he has a good point. He may be justified.

I wrote here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103584-Banana-Girl-the-controversial-Aussie-who-s-moved-to-Ecuador-and-is-now-a-vegan-in-the-jungle&p=1237025&viewfull=1#post1237025): (an extract from my post)

~~~



I live in Ecuador, as you probably know, and I've written before about how, though the Ecuadorians are almost uniformly very gentle and pleasant, I can sense their disquiet and unease at all the foreigners coming in.

They're worried for their culture... I can sense it. It's interesting being on the other side of the fence, where it's ME who doesn't speak their language, it's ME who doesn't attend their church festivals, it's ME who has the different colored skin.

And all this is justified. I never came here to contribute to Ecuador's wealth and culture... though I do my best, with my extremely limited Spanish, to be as friendly as I can be to everyone I come across.

I'm here because I could be. I'm the self-interested immigrant here.

[Valerie Villars]

We have to bear in mind what the purpose of the human experiment is...

Star, I would love if you would expound on that. Genetic experimentation?

[Baby Steps]

As long as people in developed countries tolerate in international order whereby perpetual war in different forms is waged against the less developed, those people will have to live with refugees.

As long as people in developed countries continue to fall for manipulation and psi-ops that are exploited by a corrupt press, dark interest groups will trigger crisis in the run up to elections to gain votes.

This looks like such an operation. As in the 2008 War in Georgia, victims do not matter, its about a political agenda. This one being aimed at latino voters in the US who are considering voting for Trump because of the economic successes he has had.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/aug/29/russia.georgia

[Bubu]

When go on your anti immigrants rants, maybe you should all remember you are actually talking about Bill Ryan.

He is an immigrant.

If norman were Ecuadoran, he would be demanding that the"hoards" leave his country which would include Bill.


Well, he has a good point. He may be justified.

I wrote here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103584-Banana-Girl-the-controversial-Aussie-who-s-moved-to-Ecuador-and-is-now-a-vegan-in-the-jungle&p=1237025&viewfull=1#post1237025): (an extract from my post)

~~~



I live in Ecuador, as you probably know, and I've written before about how, though the Ecuadorians are almost uniformly very gentle and pleasant, I can sense their disquiet and unease at all the foreigners coming in.

They're worried for their culture... I can sense it. It's interesting being on the other side of the fence, where it's ME who doesn't speak their language, it's ME who doesn't attend their church festivals, it's ME who has the different colored skin.

And all this is justified. I never came here to contribute to Ecuador's wealth and culture... though I do my best, with my extremely limited Spanish, to be as friendly as I can be to everyone I come across.

I'm here because I could be. I'm the self-interested immigrant here.


Bill, I am not worried when I see Americans around. I am worried though that they can be CIA and cohorts to do some nasty things over here.

I absolutely and honestly dont see any reason to worry about our culture. In fact I welcome foreigners because they bring in something , some knowledge, that we locals are not aware of. I am always fond of new things. including new culture coming in. It adds flavor to our already diverse culture.

But please tell us why you felt the Ecuadorians are worried about their culture by your mere presence.

[Ba-ba-Ra]

As long as people in developed countries tolerate in international order whereby perpetual war in different forms is waged against the less developed, those people will have to live with refugees.

As long as people in developed countries continue to fall for manipulation and psi-ops that are exploited by a corrupt press, dark interest groups will trigger crisis in the run up to elections to gain votes.

This looks like such an operation. As in the 2008 War in Georgia, victims do not matter, its about a political agenda. This one being aimed at latino voters in the US who are considering voting for Trump because of the economic successes he has had.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/aug/29/russia.georgia


BINGO! The pattern continues because it continues to work.

[Bill Ryan]

But please tell us why you felt the Ecuadorians are worried about their culture by your mere presence.

Not just my presence. That of tens of thousands of other Americans, Canadians and Europeans who were never born here and are ONLY here because they legally can be.

The Ecuadorian population isn't worried about their culture because of me. But some of my neighbors might be.

I'm living on a small farm that was previously owned by an active member of the little village community, and who was well-liked. Extended families have been living on the land next door to each other for literally generations.

Now, they've got me. I'm not one of them. I'm an imposter.

Here the analogy. Supposed you owned and lived in a large house where you rented rooms out to people who also lived there.

Before, you knew everyone in the house. They cooked and ate together, held parties together, took care of the garden together, went to Church together, and helped one another out in many little ways every day.

But the last guy left, and now I'm there. I don't cook and eat with you and the other householders. I don't go to Church with you, or go to your parties, or help in the garden. I stay in my room most of the time and rarely talk to you, though occasionally I do wave and smile when I happen to see you.

I don't belong there. But I pay the rent, and there's nothing you can do to remove me, or have things go back to the way they were before.

[Bubu]

But please tell us why you felt the Ecuadorians are worried about their culture by your mere presence.

Not just my presence. That of tens of thousands of other Americans, Canadians and Europeans who were never born here and are ONLY here because they legally can be.

The Ecuadorian population isn't worried about their culture because of me. But some of my neighbors might be.

I'm living on a small farm that was previously owned by an active member of the little village community, and who was well-liked. Extended families have been living on the land next door to each other for literally generations.

Now, they've got me. I'm not one of them. I'm an imposter.

Here the analogy. Supposed you owned and lived in a large house where you rented rooms out to people who also lived there.

Before, you knew everyone in the house. They cooked and ate together, held parties together, took care of the garden together, went to Church together, and helped one another out in many little ways every day.

But the last guy left, and now I'm there. I don't cook and eat with you and the other householders. I don't go to Church with you, or go to your parties, or help in the garden. I stay in my room most of the time and rarely talk to you, though occasionally I do wave and smile when I happen to see you.

I don't belong there. But I pay the rent, and there's nothing you can do to remove me, or have things go back to the way they were before.

Thanks Bill, your analogy is spot on. I will watch for that sign of uneasiness in people whom I broke unto their privacy. As of now, after moving numerous time, I cant remember any of those maybe because I become one of them the moment I move in. I cook with them eat sing with them all of the things where we have mutual interest. when it comes to church I simply explain to them why I believe otherwise like its no big deal even telling jokes along the course. Abnormal that I am I can still blend perfectly. I dont know why and have no intention of knowing why is it so. It might spoil the fun.

[Fellow Aspirant]

yes Bill but what's in the culture anyway? popular beliefs and dogmas. I will go for dissolving cultures as well so that a new culture will be born.


History
Traditions and Customs
Music
Art
Stories
Language and Literature

I'd suggest all of those are valuable. Ask any Native American, Tibetan, Aborigine, Maori, or San 'Bushman'. Or even a Scotsman, Irishman, or Catalan. Maybe even a Frenchman, currently living in Paris.

Ask any Mayan priest who might have still been alive when ALL their books were being burned. (Just 3 or 4 remain.)

From the point of view of the Spanish, they were just burning valueless 'beliefs and dogmas' as well.


If the purpose of "The Universe" is to allow 'The All' to multiply and amplify its experience and it aims to accomplish this end by allowing for the creation of infinite possibilities, then 'It' would prefer to maintain as much diversity as possible. This explanation then means that cultural expression and its development serves the purpose of creation while the 'homogenization' and simplification that accompanies globalism is a degeneration or even a blocking of evolution.

I'm with The Universe.

B.

[Bubu]

yes Bill but what's in the culture anyway? popular beliefs and dogmas. I will go for dissolving cultures as well so that a new culture will be born.


History
Traditions and Customs
Music
Art
Stories
Language and Literature

I'd suggest all of those are valuable. Ask any Native American, Tibetan, Aborigine, Maori, or San 'Bushman'. Or even a Scotsman, Irishman, or Catalan. Maybe even a Frenchman, currently living in Paris.

Ask any Mayan priest who might have still been alive when ALL their books were being burned. (Just 3 or 4 remain.)

From the point of view of the Spanish, they were just burning valueless 'beliefs and dogmas' as well.


If the purpose of "The Universe" is to allow 'The All' to multiply and amplify its experience and it aims to accomplish this end by allowing for the creation of infinite possibilities, then 'It' would prefer to maintain as much diversity as possible. This explanation then means that cultural expression and its development serves the purpose of creation while the 'homogenization' and simplification that accompanies globalism is a degeneration or even a blocking of evolution.

I'm with The Universe.

B.

Infinite possibilities can be achieve by allowing not limiting. If you consider globalism homogenization, then each country that does not impose boundaries on each citizens can be considered homogenize. But in reality it is made up of small ethic groups with differing culture. Similarly it applies between countries if boundaries are not impose. Im beginning to see this cultural and identity thing as another form of scam. Sure culture and uniqueness is important But this has been blown out of proportion. So much so that most people will neglect humanitarian aspect for the sake of culture and uniqueness to some up to the point of dying and killing for the sake of it. what is it with this uniqueness that it has to go beyond reason. Programmed hubots or maybe misplaced pride. "everything you know is wrong" could be true.
I'm telling you even if ya all come to the Philippines I wont forget how to cook my favorite karekare, I will not lose my culture and even if I did then maybe its inferior or no longer applicable. I also dont care about losing identity. To me I am me I dont care what I am to anyone. Identity obsession is misplace pride. Cultural obsession is scam.

[Fellow Aspirant]

" Identity obsession is misplace pride. Cultural obsession is scam."

Obsession is always a limiting state. It can become, well, obsessive. Please note that it is not part of my argument. It is the opposite of my argument. You are, however, free to go ahead and argue with yourself about it.

B.

[norman]

What's wrong with this picture ?

https://www.theday.com/storyimage/NL/20181017/NWS13/181019400/EP/1/1/EP-181019400.jpg&Maxw=960&q=75
https://newsymain-npgroup.netdna-ssl.com/images/videos/m/1540132871.jpg
https://media.arkansasonline.com/img/photos/2018/10/21/190102990_AP18294543369192.jpg

[norman]

Report: Illegal Migrant Caravan Swells To 14,000 As Trump Prepares To Seal Border

Easily double the number reported by mainstream media

Jamie White (https://www.infowars.com/author/jamie-white/) | Infowars.com - October 22, 2018


https://www.infowars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/migrantcaravan-2.jpg


The massive caravan making its way up to the U.S. southern border through Mexico has now grown to 14,000 migrants, according to reports.

Despite the mainstream media narrative that the caravan is comprised of “hundreds” of mostly women and children (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hundreds-of-migrants-u-s-bound-caravan-cross-mexico-guatemala-border-2018-10-20/), local reporting (https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/nacion/sociedad/reportan-mas-de-14-mil-hondurenos-en-la-caravana-migrante) from Mexican newspaper El Universal found that estimate to be grossly misleading.

Additionally, the majority of the caravan are not asylum-seekers – as the media has falsely claimed (https://www.vox.com/2018/10/15/17963426/caravan-border-mexico-dangerous-trump) – but illegal migrants, as testimony from many individuals claim they’re traveling to the U.S. looking for work (https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/10/19/watch-caravan-migrant-says-march-to-u-s-border-is-for-jobs-not-asylum/), not fleeing political persecution.

The fact the caravan dismissed Mexico’s offer to process asylum applicants is also evidence the caravan isn’t interested in protection from persecution, rather they’re migrating to the U.S. in pursuit of their economic interests.

How 14,000 migrants are procuring food and water, and ridding their waste remains unclear, but reports have emerged suggesting the UN and Soros-backed NGOs are quarterbacking (https://www.infowars.com/report-un-soros-behind-migrant-caravan-invasion/) the logistics of the mass migration similar to the waves that hit Europe in 2015.

President Trump echoed the notion Saturday, saying the “man-made” caravan was launched by “some bad people” to influence the outcome of the midterm elections.

Trump declared a National Emergency Monday following reports the caravan has grown and shows no signs of stopping, announcing he would deploy the military and Border Patrol to seal the border after Mexico failed to halt the caravan.

“Sadly, it looks like Mexico’s Police and Military are unable to stop the Caravan heading to the Southern Border of the United States. Criminals and unknown Middle Easterners are mixed in. I have alerted Border Patrol and Military that this is a National Emergy. Must change laws!” he tweeted.

Infowars has also received reports that Trump is prepared to cut UN funding (https://www.infowars.com/breaking-trump-prepared-to-cut-un-funding-over-its-support-for-illegal-migrant-caravan/) should the global body continue to enable the giant migrant wave.

l7nltePIoks

[Fellow Aspirant]

"Alex Jones is saying that this is a coordinated invasion of America plan, deliberately, and timed, by the UN and Alexander Soros in cahoots with Obama and his stay-behind shadow government. (Alexander Soros is the son of billionaire George Soros and Susan Weber Soros )

Infowars has also received reports that Trump is prepared to cut UN funding should the global body continue to enable the giant migrant wave. "

And what does the UN have to do with controlling any of this? Such claims are preposterous.

Has anyone offered a shred of proof for these claims? I see none.
And neither does Shepard Smith, a news anchor at FOX news. Here's a recent on-air statement of his:

"President Trump is calling the caravan a national emergency, and he's claiming criminals and unknown Middle Easterners are mixed in with the crowd. An important note: Fox News knows of no evidence to suggest the president is accurate on that matter, and the president has offered no evidence to support what he has said. Women, children, and men from Central America have been walking for days now. They say they're escaping violence and poverty in their home countries. Some are expected to seek asylum in the United States as prescribed by law; others are simply demonstrating, trying to attract attention to the plight of residents in their home country."



There's a crap load of fear mongering, though. That's plain to see.

Brian

[thepainterdoug]

Either eliminate all borders everywhere OR Enforce all borders everywhere.

[Fellow Aspirant]

Either eliminate all borders everywhere OR Enforce all borders everywhere.

I agree. I do think that, for the most part, our country's borders are secure. The U.S., by the count of it's own border security agencies, claims to turn away or apprehend ten suspicious or dangerous (as in terrorist/criminal) people a day.

Brian

[Flash]

Wow, pretty pacific and quiet for so many people together. I doubt they are all bad, seeing what I am seeing.

and lots of women and children, at least 40%, compared with what happened in Europe where it was not even 10%.

Instead of harming their countries, why the US - Canada and Europe do not help those people in their countries (including starving Venezuelans), so that they remain in their own country without risking starvation and M13 which has destroyed it basically.

Same with Africa, stop incredibly high corruption, and help putting up infrastructure for their own survival, instead of exploitation to the bone (re: diamond mines) and people would remain in their country, few would give way to religious zealots.

China is actually doing the same to those African countries by the way, exploitation to the bone.

Gosh we are primitive on this planet.

-----------------

I understand the Mexican army and police, they do not want to have to kill women and children which are pretty much peaceful.

[Bob]

More on the "invasion" - a funded invasion..

by Daniel John Sobieski - https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/10/illegal_caravans_encouraged_by_honduras_and_soros.html


Just in time for the midterms, another "spontaneous" migration from Central America began with a bevy of allegedly oppressed and downtrodden Hondurans leading the way. Pressured by a threat from President Trump to cut aid to Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador if the caravan is not stopped, some moves by these governments have been made. Yet evidence exists that these migrations are not spontaneous, with both of the governments in question encouraging them as a political and economic safety valve and a source of foreign currency, financed in part by foreign leftists with connections to George Soros.

As Fox News's Laura Ingraham noticed in a tweet, this is not a walk in a national park, but an expensive and arduous journey:

Who is funding the migrant "caravan"? Each migrant's passage can cost as much as $7K each. Per capita income Honduras is $2.3 K.

It is doubtful that such sums came from the kiddies' college funds. Evidence of Soros funding of an earlier "spontaneous" migration have been found among the tentacles of support that flow from his Open Society group coffers:

Leftist billionaire George Soros is funding the well-organized anti-Trump migrant caravan invasion from Central America that has been hitting the United States-Mexico border in defiance of immigration enforcement.

Several major ultra-liberal foundations and corporations have supported the asylum-seeking migrant caravans, and Soros' funding has been tied to several groups that have spearheaded the "refugee" invasion coalition – also dubbed "the Soros Express."

"The caravan is organized by a group called Pueblo Sin Fronteras, ut the effort is supported by the coalition CARA Family Detention Pro Bono Project, which includes Catholic Legal Immigration Network (CLIN), the American Immigration Council (AIC), the Refugee and Immigration Center for Education and Legal Services (RICELS) and the American Immigration Lawyers Association (AILA) – thus the acronym CARA," WND reported. "At least three of the four groups [B]are funded by George Soros' Open Society Foundation."

The hands of the Honduran government are not clean in these efforts. Among the alleged asylum-seekers parked on the U.S. border is a contingent of Hondurans, allegedly fleeing persecution, poverty, crime, and oppression. If that is the case, why is the Honduran government helping them, driving them northward under orders given to the Honduran ambassador, who is helping and escorting them?

Leaders of a caravan of Central American migrants traveling toward the United States through Mexico have repeatedly accused the Honduran government of corruption and with failing to address the poverty, crime and economic conditions forcing families to flee by the thousands.

So it shocked some observers when the Honduran ambassador joined the migrants protesting outside the Honduran embassy in Mexico City on Wednesday, and then accepted their invitation to walk 9 miles to a migrant shelter.

"I have been ordered by my government to support the Honduran migrants traveling with the caravan. There are about 200 Hondurans who we will help out with paperwork and whatever is necessary," Alden Rivera Montes, the Honduran ambassador to Mexico, told El Universal.

Ordered by my government? Why is the country whose oppression they are allegedly fleeing helping them leave? The answer is remittances, the money sent back home by so-called "migrants." Asylum is in large part a colossal scam designed to provide Latin American countries with a political and economic safety valve and a cash cow of foreign exchange. In 2017, remittances sent back to Honduras totaled $4.33 billion and make up a significant part of the Honduran economy:

Within the span of a few short decades, migrants have become an essential engine of economic support for Honduras. Remittances comprised 17 percent of the nation's gross domestic product (GDP) in 2011, according to World Bank estimates, the second largest share of any country in Latin America or the Caribbean. As such, Honduran emigrants have tremendous significance for the country's economy and for the sustenance of many otherwise impoverished communities and families.

Talk about a trade imbalance. We import alleged asylum-seekers and other illegal aliens, and they send home billions sucked out of a benevolent U.S. government and economy. We have an economy that has some 7.3 million jobs going unfilled because of a shortage of skilled workers. Judging from photos of the latest caravan, one would suggest a paucity of welders, pipefitters, electricians, and long-haul truck-drivers.

Inner-city blacks have long asked which country they get to go to to escape violence and poverty. Although President Trump is succeeding in fighting crime and increasing job opportunities in our urban areas, much remains to be done. We do not need to be importing low-wage and low-skilled competitors to American citizens to drive down poor workers' wages. Inner-city residents have long asked, where's our sanctuary?

Unlike the children of Central America, arriving en masse, the children of Chicago, facing conditions every bit as horrible, have no border to cross to seek asylum or refuge[.] ...

"Do something for our children," said one of the protesters in a video posted at the blog Rebel Pundit. "Have the same love for these young people like you got for the ones across the border, and you want to save them." ...

A woman, identified only as Elaine, explained the plight of inner-city Baltimore residents on Laura Ingraham's radio show: "My children cannot play outside. I cannot take my trash out without locking the door – it's awful. Who is going to give us anything? Where can I get asylum? Where can I get refugee status?"

Where, indeed? Perhaps this side of a border wall Democrats oppose in favor of sanctuary cities and Medicare for illegal aliens. If any of the alleged asylum-seekers want to learn a trade – how about a crash course in border wall construction? Build it, and they won't come.

Daniel John Sobieski is a freelance writer whose pieces have appeared in Investor's Business Daily, Human Events, Reason Magazine, and the Chicago Sun-Times among other publications.

[Bob]

A funded invasion?

from http://allnewspipeline.com/Mexico_Caravan_Illegal_Immigration.php

The 'neo-Communist' group that is leading this march, Pueblos Sin Fronteras, is a front group for the Communist International and purports to be an anti-border group but in reality is a tool of Soros and Open Society foundation global governance organization pushing for a borderless world and global government.

Should we be surprised that Soros is somehow connected? As we see outlined in much more detail below in new and old stories from former US Presidential Candidate Dr. Alan Keyes, 'illegal immigration' is absolutely part of a strategy of 'unarmed invasion' that has been used throughout history in covert warfare to overthrow nations. First, from this Guardian story:

“Mexico has the absolute power not to let these large ‘Caravans’ of people enter their country,” President Trump tweeted. “They must stop them at their Northern Border, which they can do because their border laws work, not allow them to pass through into our country, which has no effective border laws.

“Congress must immediately pass Border Legislation, use Nuclear Option if necessary, to stop the massive inflow of Drugs and People. Border Patrol Agents (and ICE) are GREAT, but the weak Dem laws don’t allow them to do their job. Act now Congress, our country is being stolen!

Trump’s use of the term “caravans” – also made in a sequence of tweets on Easter Sunday – was a reference to a large group of people who are heading through Mexico, hoping to reach the US border.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Factions, yes. Different cultures, no.

And dissolving borders is what the EU has been trying to do for years, as a means of dissolving cultures.

Since the EU project was first launched, imagine the billions of dollars European leaders have poured into brainwashing their own people to give up their countries and sacrifice their institutions and cultures to unelected executives in Brussels.

I'm on the other side of the Atlantic, and I remember when I was still in public school in the late 1990's/early 2000's, even in our French class they were bombarding us with all these futuristic ideas of a united Europe, with immense resources at its disposal, economic powerhouse, etc. etc.

No one would have ever imagined (besides those behind it, of course) that what they were really going to create was the USSR v2.0, except a massive welfare continent filled with Arabs and Africans living off of the backs of the native Europeans, with unelected executives enforcing these mass-migration policies with no popular votes even being held on this civilization-ending policy.

I've said it before out of pure disgust, but part of me hopes that Europe actually does become another part of the Middle East or Africa, and loses everything that ever made it unique, with its monuments being vandalized and blown up. Just to spite the millions of arrogant Europeans who are destroying themselves with such self-righteous glee, I almost hope that they actually get what they want and live to see the final results.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Instead of harming their countries, why the US - Canada and Europe do not help those people in their countries (including starving Venezuelans), so that they remain in their own country without risking starvation and M13 which has destroyed it basically.

US mid-term elections are in a couple of weeks or so. This massive group appears out of nowhere and is making it across Mexico at impossible speed, using buses and other resources that require them to have money and for someone to have organized their travel. You realize this planning must have taken place, correct?

This is a lame political stunt, which will backfire spectacularly, trying to create a violent border scene to hurt Trump just before the mid-term election. In reality far more Americans are concerned with constantly flooding ourselves with people who are not oppressed, but simply poor, uneducated, and from lazy nations. These people have been in America as long as we have, if not longer, and what do they have to show for it?

Men feminists are more than a bit psychotic imo, but for women it's natural, literally a part of their in-born motherly instincts, to get all emotional about the care of others, particularly children. I understand all of that, but those kinds of emotions become toxic when they leak into foreign policy issues, because we simply don't have the resources to play mom to the whole world, especially at the rates they have kids in these lawless environments. It would end up screwing everyone, both us and them, if we tried it anyway. This is a massive problem that is beyond the capabilities of western civilization to fix single-handedly, as if we are meant to be the world's super heroes (I disagree with that).

It's a mathematical impossibility, and this is the hard truth that has to be laid down. If people want that badly to solve world poverty, they better start developing new technology, because what we have now won't do it. You can assign a third-world family to the personal care of every middle class family in America, and aside from the fact that you've basically created slave labor in service of the 3rd world (who will mostly squander what they get anyway), we still wouldn't be able to help everyone.


Same with Africa, stop incredibly high corruption, and help putting up infrastructure for their own survival, instead of exploitation to the bone (re: diamond mines) and people would remain in their country, few would give way to religious zealots.

Africans are in a bind over this situation. On the one hand, many of them want to continue living in traditional tribal arrangements, without western culture or technology. On the other hand, they are sitting on top of some of the world's largest supplies of valuable raw materials, that are immensely valuable to civilizations which are much more developed than their own.

Even if Westerners back off and leave them in peace, it doesn't look like the Chinese are going to. And then are we just going to sit back and allow China to rape and plunder Africa to our disadvantage? While we dither about moral quandaries, China will be committing all of the atrocities we're trying to avoid and empowering themselves over us the entire time. Global politics isn't always that simple.

[Flash]

Instead of harming their countries, why the US - Canada and Europe do not help those people in their countries (including starving Venezuelans), so that they remain in their own country without risking starvation and M13 which has destroyed it basically.

US mid-term elections are in a couple of weeks or so. This massive group appears out of nowhere and is making it across Mexico at impossible speed, using buses and other resources that require them to have money and for someone to have organized their travel. You realize this planning must have taken place, correct?

This is a lame political stunt, which will backfire spectacularly, trying to create a violent border scene to hurt Trump just before the mid-term election. In reality far more Americans are concerned with constantly flooding ourselves with people who are not oppressed, but simply poor, uneducated, and from lazy nations. These people have been in America as long as we have, if not longer, and what do they have to show for it?

Men feminists are more than a bit psychotic imo, but for women it's natural, literally a part of their in-born motherly instincts, to get all emotional about the care of others, particularly children. I understand all of that, but those kinds of emotions become toxic when they leak into foreign policy issues, because we simply don't have the resources to play mom to the whole world, especially at the rates they have kids in these lawless environments. It would end up screwing everyone, both us and them, if we tried it anyway. This is a massive problem that is beyond the capabilities of western civilization to fix single-handedly, as if we are meant to be the world's super heroes (I disagree with that).

It's a mathematical impossibility, and this is the hard truth that has to be laid down. If people want that badly to solve world poverty, they better start developing new technology, because what we have now won't do it. You can assign a third-world family to the personal care of every middle class family in America, and aside from the fact that you've basically created slave labor in service of the 3rd world (who will mostly squander what they get anyway), we still wouldn't be able to help everyone.


Same with Africa, stop incredibly high corruption, and help putting up infrastructure for their own survival, instead of exploitation to the bone (re: diamond mines) and people would remain in their country, few would give way to religious zealots.

Africans are in a bind over this situation. On the one hand, many of them want to continue living in traditional tribal arrangements, without western culture or technology. On the other hand, they are sitting on top of some of the world's largest supplies of valuable raw materials, that are immensely valuable to civilizations which are much more developed than their own.

Even if Westerners back off and leave them in peace, it doesn't look like the Chinese are going to. And then are we just going to sit back and allow China to rape and plunder Africa to our disadvantage? While we dither about moral quandaries, China will be committing all of the atrocities we're trying to avoid and empowering themselves over us the entire time. Global politics isn't always that simple.

Although the timing may be strange, to which I agree, the rest of your post is one of the most racist and empathy less writing I have been given to read on Avalon.

Please, I would ask other members to answer my post if they wish, and I would ask you Voice to refrain from doing so. I am not adressing to you, you seem to me to be an unredeemable case.

And I am not surprised, coming from you


constantly flooding ourselves with people who are not oppressed, but simply poor, uneducated, and from lazy nations .Talk about judgmental racist and absolutely empathy less comments. Very very but very obvious you have never been poor, never been outside the USA - and also obvious you are as uneducated if not more than those you are mentioning. lazy nations. Well when you live at 100 F to start with, have been having war pushed on you for a few centuries, despair and paralysis gains a nation, add to this corruption paid for by mostly the rich countries and drug dealers hired by rich countries and their governing bodies, not much left to do than becoming passive

But this, Voice, you will never understand - you are much to righteous to see this, ain't you (sarcasm here).

I will not answer the rest, it is truly pathetic the little understanding you have of the world, despite many effort you put at reading.

You did not even understood that my post is mostly looking at the larger picture on the planet it seems.

----------------

Yes, Bill and Paul and all, I am directly talking to Voice in a way that is not that nice, but ****, I have enough of stupidity. You can, if you wish, ban me, I would accept. By the same token, Voice should be ban everytime he has depraving comments about women or other cultures.

These people have been in America as long as we have, if not longer, and what do they have to show for it?

Men feminists are more than a bit psychotic imo, but for women it's natural, literally a part of their in-born motherly instincts, to get all emotional about the care of others, particularly children. I understand all of that, but those kinds of emotions become toxic when they leak into foreign policy issues, because we simply don't have the resources to play mom to the whole world, especially at the rates they have kids in these lawless environments. It would end up screwing everyone, both us and them, if we tried it anyway. This is a massive problem that is beyond the capabilities of western civilization to fix single-handedly, as if we are meant to be the world's super heroes (I disagree with that).

[Bruno]

It saddens me that many people think that this migration is a "storming" of anything.

Nor has this movement of people come upon us suddenly or without good reason.

People generally only risk their lives and the lives of their family when their situation is so dire that the alternative is as bad or worse.

I am not saying that the USA should open the border to every poor migrant, but the hysteria over this caravan being some sort of threat to security seems ridiculous to me.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Although the timing may be strange, to which I agree, the rest of your post is one of the most racist and empathy less writing I have been given to read on Avalon.

That's odd because I didn't mention race in anywhere. I mentioned people living in the third world, and Africans, Africa being a very large and diverse continent that contains multiple races of people (blacks, Arabs, whites, etc.).

Sometimes you are okay Flash, and other times you just go off the handle out of nowhere. The third world is still going to be poor, and there are still going to be too many of them for us to take care of all of them, whether I state the obvious or not. How is that racist?



Talk about judgmental racist and absolutely empathy less comments. Very very but very obvious you have never been poor, never been outside the USA - and also obvious you are as uneducated if not more than those you are mentioning.

Well I'm not part of a lawless caravan to break across the Honduran border, so I doubt that actually.


Well when you live at 100 F to start with

We get that here during the summer. It's not pleasant, but we aren't transformed into Guatemala every summer, either.


have been having war pushed on you for a few centuries

The US has been at war very regularly for about 400 years, if you go back to Jamestown, when we were a small outpost on the frontier of much more powerful native confederacies. War is terrible too but we've recovered from them.


despair and paralysis gains a nation, add to this corruption paid for by mostly the rich countries and drug dealers hired by rich countries and their governing bodies, not much left to do than becoming passive

If you keep blaming the corruption and drug cartels in countries like Mexico and Guatemala on other countries, how is that going to help them solve their problems? They have to take responsibility for themselves and their own policies, which is exactly what they're not doing by sending all of their most impoverished and lawless elements into our country. We aren't a human recycling bin, nor a free cash dispenser. If they want reform in their countries, it has to start in their countries.


But this, Voice, you will never understand - you are much to righteous to see this, ain't you (sarcasm here).

There is nothing self-righteous about telling people to take responsibility for their own countries. What is self-righteous is attributing a million reasons to them why they will never be able to measure up to your level, so it becomes your responsibility to play mother for them and take care of all of their needs. That's an incredibly condescending attitude to take towards these people. I am willing to bet that the majority of the people in these countries would rather fix things where they are, than get up and move, under the assumption that changing the dirt beneath their feet will transform everything else.


Yes, Bill and Paul and all, I am directly talking to Voice in a way that is not that nice, but ****, I have enough of stupidity. You can, if you wish, ban me, I would accept. By the same token, Voice should be ban everytime he has depraving comments about women or other cultures.

For the record, none of what you say insults me in the least. I'm used to these kinds of reactions, and it is a sad situation, but hysterics and name-calling doesn't change any of what I'm saying.


These people have been in America as long as we have, if not longer, and what do they have to show for it?

Hondurans have been in the United States for longer than who has? Canadians?

[A Voice from the Mountains]

People generally only risk their lives and the lives of their family when their situation is so dire that the alternative is as bad or worse.

Yes, conditions so dire, that half of them are obese, and decide to travel a few hundred extra miles to the United States rather than just resettling in Mexico.

[Deux Corbeaux]

I've said it before out of pure disgust, but part of me hopes that Europe actually does become another part of the Middle East or Africa, and loses everything that ever made it unique, with its monuments being vandalized and blown up. Just to spite the millions of arrogant Europeans who are destroying themselves with such self-righteous glee, I almost hope that they actually get what they want and live to see the final results.

Really?
Good to know that it’s only a part of you which hopes that.

The first part of your post I can petty much agree with.

[Star Tsar]

the rest of your post is one of the most racist and empathy less writing I have been given to read on Avalon.

And NOT for the first time either...

:facepalm:

[Deux Corbeaux]

Wow, pretty pacific and quiet for so many people together. I doubt they are all bad, seeing what I am seeing.

and lots of women and children, at least 40%, compared with what happened in Europe where it was not even 10%.

Instead of harming their countries, why the US - Canada and Europe do not help those people in their countries (including starving Venezuelans), so that they remain in their own country without risking starvation and M13 which has destroyed it basically.

Same with Africa, stop incredibly high corruption, and help putting up infrastructure for their own survival, instead of exploitation to the bone (re: diamond mines) and people would remain in their country, few would give way to religious zealots.

China is actually doing the same to those African countries by the way, exploitation to the bone.

Gosh we are primitive on this planet.

-----------------

I understand the Mexican army and police, they do not want to have to kill women and children which are pretty much peaceful.

Who can not agree with that.

But I don’t agree with that 40% of women and children, as they are usually put in the forefront in pictures that are published. Guess why.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Really?
Good to know that it’s only a part of you which hopes that.

Yes, only a part of me, and the rest of me is restrained by the knowledge that good people such as yourself are still out there.

Really though, try to put yourself in the shoes of a conservative American, when the US is already considered conservative by European standards, and try to imagine how insufferable most Europeans come across to us. Not all, but most, and you know exactly which ones I'm talking about. It would make part of you wish they got what they were asking for, too, or at least it might if you didn't live there. ;)

Eastern Europe gets it -- they already had communism.

Western Europe might need a taste of Venezuela, mixed with Afghanistan, before they get the full picture.

[Deux Corbeaux]

Really?
Good to know that it’s only a part of you which hopes that.

Yes, only a part of me, and the rest of me is restrained by the knowledge that good people such as yourself are still out there.

Really though, try to put yourself in the shoes of a conservative American, when the US is already considered conservative by European standards, and try to imagine how insufferable most Europeans come across to us. Not all, but most, and you know exactly which ones I'm talking about. It would make part of you wish they got what they were asking for, too, or at least it might if you didn't live there. ;)

Eastern Europe gets it -- they already had communism.

Western Europe might need a taste of Venezuela, mixed with Afghanistan, before they get the full picture.

Oh my! I wonder if you’ve ever been in Europe :facepalm:

I’ve visited the US many times and I will never get used to the poverty I’ve seen there, unknown for west Europeans.
I’ve also experienced the rich, but you over there would probably call them the upper middle class.

The US has got great nature and is a beautiful place to live, but only for the ones that don’t have money problems, and I’ve experienced there are a lot of them. For them proper and affordable housing, healthcare and education are not available, contrary to Europe.

But I must admit that privatisation and bad border control is putting us under pressure and is making us poorer.

[Valerie Villars]

For the worst poverty of all, drive through the Indian Reservations in Arizona. I was appalled.

[Flash]

Deux Corbeaux, Americans do not believe us when we tell them what we saw in their country. They do not believe elsewhere may be much better for all.

They do not believe when we say we much prefer living in our country in parts because of the way we treat our sicks and poorer ones.

Most Europeans and Canadians would not want to live in US.

US is for the rich.

How can you change things when you are as brainwashed as most Americans are?

The rest of rhe world should not count on them to change anything. Nor look at them for direction. US has missed her spiritual mission to lead the world with mercy and love. To teach others for self sustainability instead of bombing them.

We have to do it ourselves. It is a pity that Canada is so near, with great resources like Africa, and a constant pull on it to let itself be plundered.

[Sierra]

...because we simply don't have the resources to play mom to the whole world...

Damn straight we don’t. Last year, 87% of the entire nation’s produced wealth went to the 1%. And we know they could give a flying duck for the poor whether American citizenry or not.

We. Are. Slaves.

And just think, given SOME of the American masses still have jobs, still own homes, we generate an enormous amount of wealth.


And then are we just going to sit back and allow China to rape and plunder Africa to our disadvantage? While we dither about moral quandaries, China will be committing all of the atrocities we're trying to avoid and empowering themselves over us the entire time.

We’re trying to avoid? :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

Read some history.

What we did in the Marshall Islands for a tiny example (you know, where we tested atom bombs and clinically examined the effect on the trapped human flesh of the islanders). The equivalent of 1.6 hiroshima bombs a day for 12 years, if averaged out.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2015/11/27/a-ground-zero-forgotten/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5224b648cbe1

Read about the effect slavery,(16th through 19th century) on the U.S. economy:

Of the 6.5 million immigrants who survived the crossing of the Atlantic and settled in the Western Hemisphere between 1492 and 1776, only 1 million were Europeans. The remaining 5.5 million were African. [/b]
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/01/how-slavery-helped-build-a-world-economy/

You know that Thomas Paine quote about give me liberty or give me death? Taken out of context and applied to the American revolution:

"Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"—Patrick Henry, Speech in the Virginia Convention, March, 1775.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/01/how-slavery-helped-build-a-world-economy/

Slaves built the NYC subway system, which if destroyed today, (whether by terrorism, earthquake or nuclear war) could not be replaced, too expensive.

Read about Haiti, (formerly the richest colony on the planet) (coffee, and sugar for the extremely profitable triangle rum trade) also the first nation able to throw off slavery and achieve independence from their European masters, now the poorest nation on the planet. Ooh. Talk about long memories on the part of the 1%.
http://www.crawfurd.dk/africa/haiti200.htm

And some people wonder why Americans are losing the middle class, can’t afford higher education, are becoming poorer... it’s because the 1% are not satisfied with 87% of the wealth you and I produce. The writing is on the wall, and soon we’ll occupy the same boat as those we currently berate for poverty, and the failure to enslave others.

[happyuk]

Really?
Good to know that it’s only a part of you which hopes that.

Yes, only a part of me, and the rest of me is restrained by the knowledge that good people such as yourself are still out there.

Really though, try to put yourself in the shoes of a conservative American, when the US is already considered conservative by European standards, and try to imagine how insufferable most Europeans come across to us. Not all, but most, and you know exactly which ones I'm talking about. It would make part of you wish they got what they were asking for, too, or at least it might if you didn't live there. ;)

Eastern Europe gets it -- they already had communism.

Western Europe might need a taste of Venezuela, mixed with Afghanistan, before they get the full picture.

And a bit of Stalinesque gulags for good measure if you really want to know what socialism really stands for.

[Deux Corbeaux]

happyuk ^^ I think you’ve read Solzhenitsyn‘s “The Gulag Archipelago”.

Solzhenitsyn, was a known nazi sympathizer and his ex-wife, whom he was married to at the time of writing it, said in her autobiography that he didn't even consider it a "historical work," but a "camp folklore collection." None of the info presented resembles soviet archive data even a little.

Read the article of Lex Jon.
https://www.quora.com/Have-you-read-the-Gulag-Archipelago-and-are-you-still-a-fan-of-socialism

[Flash]

happyuk ^^ I think you’ve read Solzhenitsyn‘s “The Gulag Archipelago”.

Solzhenitsyn, was a known nazi sympathizer and his ex-wife, whom he was married to at the time of writing it, said in her autobiography that he didn't even consider it a "historical work," but a "camp folklore collection." None of the info presented resembles soviet archive data even a little.

Read the article of Lex John.
https://www.quora.com/Have-you-read-the-Gulag-Archipelago-and-are-you-still-a-fan-of-socialism

This article is a piece of soviet or russian propaganda Deux Corbeaux. There might not have been 60 millions in gulags, this we will never know, but there were definitely more than 2 millions.

Just the deportation of crimean tatars were heavy, and other tatars were killed by millions. And this is only one group amongst many more ethnies from south Russia and Central Asia.

Of course, those had helped the Nazis precisely because they were literally ethnically cleansed by Lenine and then Staline. Trying to escape Lenine and then Staline, one takes whatever comes that could help. And they were not common thiefs or killers, they were political prisoners mixed with killers and thiefs, in those gulags.

This does not tell me that the Gulag were what Solzhnitsyn said, but it was certainly pretty horrendous.

In the gulags, as in the Nazi concentration camps, one could survive pretty much only if working at the kitchen or if playing music or being an actor for the military. Or being experimental guinea pigs.

I have direct relatives that were sent to gulags and barely survived thanks to being actors.

I have been in Crimea a few years after the fall of the Berlin wall, let me tell you, their economy and manufacturing was absolutely pitiful.

The very strong iron fist of the party on everybody was felt everywhere still. The stories I heard directly from Russians and Tatars were not pretty.

Et je pourrais en dire plus mais enfin...

[Deux Corbeaux]

^^

Yes Flash, Lex Jon (a political science and psychology undergraduate) describes himself as anti-imperialist anti-zionist and anti-capitalist.

But does that make him automatically a writer of Soviet or Russian propaganda to you? Well, so be it.

I´ve always wanted to hear, read or experience both (or if possible more) sides of a story to come to a conclusion, which will never be fixed or unchangeable anyway.

[Flash]

^^

Yes Flash, Lex Jon (a political science and psychology undergraduate) describes himself as anti-imperialist anti-zionist and anti-capitalist.

But does that make him automatically a writer of Soviet or Russian propaganda to you? Well, so be it.
I´ve always wanted to hear, read or experience both (or if possible more) sides of a story to come to a conclusion, which will never be fixed or unchangeable anyway.

You are right, experiencing both sides, or many, of the story is often the best to know what the truth may be.

Have you experienced at least two sides?

Have you ever been in Russia? Have you ever spoken to old Russians who have lived under Staline? Do you have any family who lived it?

Do you know anybody who went to the gulags (i met one of the founder of the Polish communist party who ended up not liking what was done later on and speaking up, so she was sent to a gulag, after having been freed from Auswitch, plus an in law family member of mine who was sent to a gulag)?

And, I know you have been in the USA. So at least, one side you know that side, plus the French side.

I have experienced both sides.

I have known people who were in the gulags (I am old enough for that). I have know Russians, in Crimea, who lived under the Soviet Union rules as well and spoke out once they could. And my in laws were Crimean tatars.

Believe me, this piece of paper you referred to is propaganda or trash, decide which one. It is plainly false. Do you want to promote falsehood. Don't we have enough of false stuff, coming from any side?

I have nothing to lose here, why would I lie?

Personally, I am not anti-communist, anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist, I am just plainly anti-Lies.

Lex Jon should either study a bit more or stop being a paid shill, because I cannot see any other reasons for him to write what he wrote.

Now, back to the Hondurian and Central American and Mexican topic. (I also lived in Central America and Mexico in the past, not visited, but lived in, so this interests me quite a lot too
By the way, despite our disagreement here, I usually like your posts, and you have a better handle of the English language than I have. This is appreciated.

[Deux Corbeaux]

^^

Dear Flash, Perhaps you think you have a disagreement with ME, but I don't have a disagreement with YOU as far as the gulag camps.


This does not tell me that the Gulag were what Solzhnitsyn said, but it was certainly pretty horrendous.
That's the only thing I wanted to show to happyuk. We are usually not very well informed about the gulag camps.

I´m very glad for you that you had the opportunity to talk with a survivor of Auschwitz and the gulag camps. And another gulag survivor as well. They must have been very traumatized.

I only had the opportunity to know some of my father's friends, who were Auschwitz survivors. They were so traumatized that they were not able to talk about their experiences.
I remember how they explained their numbers, tattooed on their underarms, when I asked about them as a child. They told me it was their telephone number, in case they would forget it..... My father explained what they were really meant for, but that was years later.

As for your other questions about my experiences, I don´t want to be dragged into a sort of competition.

I only want to tell you that I visited East Berlin a few times in the late 70ies, where I had some long talks with a couple of Eastern German students over there.
I then realized how I had been indoctrinated.

Quite recently I went to China, where, again, I had some talks with (chinese) students, who worked as translators over there.
It was a real eye opener, as was this whole China experience.

As for your quick opinion about Lex Jon, It's your good right. I don´t mind.

Thanks for appreciating my other contributions so far. :)

:focus:

[Hervé]

SHOCKING MIGRANT CARAVAN TRUTH FROM THE MEX MEDIA (http://82.221.129.208/.ya9.html)

By Jim Stone
October 24-25 2018

The actual caravan has been abandoned and left stranded in Chiapas

The Democrats, Soros, or whoever started this caravan ditched all the women, children and families in Chiapas, (the very first state in the south) where they were forced to walk and did not make it out of Chiapas. Mexico is geographically huge (chiapas is much bigger than Honduras and it is only a medium sized Mexican state) and it is only a state. The people actually walking the caravan had no knowledge of just how huge a trek attempting to walk Mexico is, and they want to turn back. The Democrats and Soros abandoned them and they are crashed out at the sides of city streets and wherever they can find shade, starving, with flies all over them.

Meanwhile, those who could stage huge marches for the cameras (all the working age males, a huge portion of which are criminals) were loaded onto buses and trucks, and have left the women and families a thousand miles behind. Soros, the Dems, and US Aid, which is involved in this because the men have USAID back packs abandoned the people they actually claimed were the refugees in trade for totally able bodied males who could do excellent camera stunts.

The actual condition of the people who started the caravan is in fact horrible, and it is not just a media heart throb, they really did get abandoned by the organizers of the march who could care less if they live or die. They have children and babies in sweltering filthy conditions on sidewalks with flies all over them.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT DEFINES THE HEART OF THE COMMUNIST DEMOCRAT: Use people to the max, perhaps cause the deaths of a few for sympathy camera shots, and when their usefulness is over, abandon them totally. A large portion of the original caravan is in this condition and it is obvious some of the kids won't survive it.

I was correct when I said such a trek could not be done. The truthful portion of this caravan that did it as claimed is a lot less than 10 percent of the way, and is totally bedraggled and worn out. They cannot continue.

I did not expect Soros, the Democrats, and U.S. aid to leave them in this condition but when it comes to communists, the more of a scene they can make the better, people really are disposable. As far as they care, if all of these people die on camera and make Trump look bad, that's good for their politics and exactly what they want. Meanwhile the portion of the caravan that is in no way composed of refugees continues on wheels, well fed and watered.

Ditching these people in Chiapas is a massive crime when bus tickets to save their behinds are only $200 to the U.S. border, and probably less than $100 back to Honduras. But when it comes to a cretin like Soros, $100 is too much to save a life, even after he was the one who put that life in jeopardy. It is very hard to believe these people got $7000 USD each for this, maybe instead they got pesos or whatever their national currency is. There is no evidence whatsoever of the type of accommodation $7000 USD each would have paid for this early in the game. There is definitely something wrong with that story.

[onawah]

AMERICAN TRUCKING COMPANY HAULING ILLEGAL ALIEN MIGRANT CARAVAN
https://forbiddenknowledgetv.net/american-trucking-company-hauling-illegal-alien-migrant-caravan/
10/26/18
KCF5GLy6an8
"This video shot in Mexico shows an American-owned truck as it pulls dual flatbed trailers and is loaded with over 150 Central American “migrants”. A few days previously, thousands of migrants crashed the gates at the Guatemala border, entering Mexico illegally, injuring Mexican police officers and telling observers they were headed to the US.

On the door of the truck’s cab, one can see the company name “Javier”, along with the company’s registration number at the US Department of Transportation. Numerous flatbed trucks have been filmed on the Mexican highways, carting hundreds of young men to the US border. The drivers must be asked who is paying them for their services.

When walking, they’re most often seen waving the national flags of Honduras and Guatemala and triumphantly singing their national anthems. One photograph even shows them burning an American flag that has been defaced with a swastika.

What does this look like to you? I honestly don’t have words for it because I’ve never seen or heard of anything like this before a similar “caravan” was publicized earlier this year. Some are calling this the “weaponization of poor people” by Globalists like George Soros. Alex Jones is calling it “21st century warfare.”

General Jim Mattis is mobilizing 800 Army troops to assist the 4,000 National Guards who are already there, aiding Customs and Border Patrol agents to process this influx of migrants."

[Flash]

Wherever you see only young males, no women, no children, as immigrants, there are questions to be asked, as it is many times the case in Europe.

where are the children and women who were there at the beginning of the march?

This is so sad to see exploitation to the bone of the starving poorest ones of the planet.

It now does look like anything but genuine immigration. Unless there are trucks with families as well that have not been shown in videos (we only see 2 trucks).

[onawah]

Guatemalan Authorities Rescue Group of Minors from Human Smugglers in Caravan
In Judicial Watch's email update today:

"Judicial Watch has obtained exclusive information and photos from Guatemalan authorities revealing that they have recovered seven unaccompanied minors from human smugglers working inside the caravan. The children have been taken into custody and they are being provided with food, water and medical attention, according to a high-level Guatemalan government official. The smugglers have been arrested and the broader investigation into criminal activity in the caravan is ongoing.

A Judicial Watch team, headed by Director of Investigations Chris Farrell, spent several days on the Guatemala-Honduras border covering the illegal alien caravan, which originated in the northern Honduran city of San Pedro Sula. The team filed a number of exclusive reports and videos and met with Guatemalan President Jimmy Morales and other top government officials.

“Judicial Watch has been at the forefront of this top news story, reporting exclusive information from inside that no other news organization is reporting,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “Chris Farrell and Irene Garcia put themselves in harm’s way to get this material, and Judicial Watch supporters nationwide are highly grateful for their sacrifices.”

Read more about human trafficking in the caravan here. See Judicial Watch’s exclusive interview with a caravan member, a 40-year-old Honduran who previously lived in the United States for decades before getting deported, here:
https://www.judicialwatch.org/video-update/judicial-watch-exclusive-interview-w-caravan-member-in-guatemala/?utm_source=deployer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=corruption+chronicles&utm_term=members&utm_content=20181026194819

See Judicial Watch’s exclusive reporting about the large numbers of migrants from various countries–including Brazil and even as far as China & India– traveling through Central America en route to the United States here: https://www.judicialwatch.org/video-update/judicial-watch-exclusive-raw-video-caravan-migrants-from-all-over-the-world/?utm_source=deployer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=corruption+chronicles&utm_term=members&utm_content=20181026194732
Read more about this exclusive story here: https://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2018/10/young-angry-men-gangbangers-march-towards-u-s-yelling-vamos-para-alla-trump/?utm_source=deployer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=corruption+chronicles&utm_term=members&utm_content=20181026194619

Judicial Watch recently reported that, in a startling revelation, Guatemala’s president announced in the country’s largest newspaper that nearly 100 ISIS terrorists have been apprehended in the impoverished Central American nation.
https://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2018/10/100-isis-terrorists-caught-in-guatemala-as-central-american-caravan-heads-to-u-s/?utm_source=deployer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=corruption+chronicles&utm_term=members&utm_content=20181026194543 "

[norman]

A second migrant caravan of about 1,000 Hondurans is heading to the US, following the first.


Now, some of these really DO look like they could be cronic hungry. I guess they've noticed some sort of a fuss about going north to find a fix for their problems.

https://www.infowars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/102318secondcaravan.jpg

[Pam]

It saddens me that many people think that this migration is a "storming" of anything.

Nor has this movement of people come upon us suddenly or without good reason.

People generally only risk their lives and the lives of their family when their situation is so dire that the alternative is as bad or worse.

I am not saying that the USA should open the border to every poor migrant, but the hysteria over this caravan being some sort of threat to security seems ridiculous to me.

I don't have any problem with immigration, and do have empathy for the poor. What I have a problem with is that there are established ways to apply for citizenship. You don't need to storm the borders in large numbers. In no way should that be tolerated. Also, poor is a relative word. What kind of poor? Are these people hungry and homeless or do they want more of the materialistic life of excess promoted in media and movies? Does anyone here really know the actual circumstances that these people left?

[Flash]

It saddens me that many people think that this migration is a "storming" of anything.

Nor has this movement of people come upon us suddenly or without good reason.

People generally only risk their lives and the lives of their family when their situation is so dire that the alternative is as bad or worse.

I am not saying that the USA should open the border to every poor migrant, but the hysteria over this caravan being some sort of threat to security seems ridiculous to me.

I don't have any problem with immigration, and do have empathy for the poor. What I have a problem with is that there are established ways to apply for citizenship. You don't need to storm the borders in large numbers. In no way should that be tolerated. Also, poor is a relative word. What kind of poor? Are these people hungry and homeless or do they want more of the materialistic life of excess promoted in media and movies? Does anyone here really know the actual circumstances that these people left?

Peterpam, just go live in a real poor country for a few months, such as Haiti or El Salvador or some neighborhoods of Brazil, you will understand what poor means.

Poor is poorer than the poorest ghettos in America.

Poor means that your child will die of hunger next week, literally.

Poor means that you have been sleeping in the street, without food, and water tinted with bits of coffee to feed your 2 years old, that is all. It may mean having to, yes having to, prostitute oneself to feed one's family, while not feeding oneself, ultimate self sacrifice.

If I were in these situations, I would try anything to save my family, yet, I may not even have the will or ability to try, being so undernourished.

At least half of any of these people into harsh immigration attempts (in Europe or USA) are in these situations, even if young and male. The other half, well, it may be another story altogether.

[Flash]

long post but worth reading, I think:

I must add that I helped a few of those immigrants in dire circumstances years ago.

A Salvadorian friend of mine, whose children had remained in El Salvador during the civil war, was doing anything to get them into Canada but had to wait for the lenghty process.

In the meantime, two of her brothers had been killed by the military junta right in front of her children's eyes, and her children were left with her old mother, dying of hunger.


She had to get them in order to feed them. But the legal process is relentlessly slow for starving and dying children.

She finally got to her country, got her 2 children on the plane and entered Canada without the required papers for them. Her 12 years old looked like an 8 years old because of starvation and her 14 years old could not think properly anylonger.

And as in any rich country, you get what is needed when you have either a rich friend or a knowledgeable one helping you. In this case, I was the knowledgeable one having lawyers as friends.

We picked her children up at the airport when they were going to be deported, alone, back in their home country. Having a lawyer, which is usually very expensive but were free for me, really did help substantially. She was very lucky.

The first comment of her children when arriving in my student apartment: wow, you two cats are so fat, in my country, we would have eaten them, and what about the cat food!! yumy...

I will always remember.

I also remember the loving mother of a 5 years old little Salvardorian who had been hanging around me for 4 months in El Salvador. I would call her my gringita, because she was all blonde.

Well, my gringita one day told me that her mom wanted to talk with me. Which I did.

The mom had 5 other children and could not feed them (they do not have money for contraceptive, a real vicious circle, and when they have, they have the rejects from our pharmaceutical companies and get pregnant anyhow - Canadian we had been told not to get contraceptive in El Salvador).

My gringita's mom told me: please take daughter with you in Canada, I know she will better survive with you there than with me here. Being a student, I could not, but I was heart broken, and so was the mother, seeing the absence of future for her daughter (no possible schooling, and low caloric feeding) and mostly potential death.

Add to this that I have seen with own eyes children living one week and dead the next because of starvation.

This is poverty Peterpam.

Believe me, those poor ones are always grateful for what they receive in the host country.

My friend two son became an aeronautical technician and a computer specialist respectively, raising in turn beautiful children, all schooled and hard workers.

I do not know what happened to my gringita.

[norman]

Thank you Flash.

Look at the pictures of the first 'caravan' and try to find anyone in the crowd who looks like they'd eat cat food, never mind having spent the last 2 years on about a tin a week of it.

Something nefarious is going on.

[Caliban]

Thank you Flash.

Look at the pictures of the first 'caravan' and try to find anyone in the crowd who looks like they'd eat cat food, never mind having spent the last 2 years on about a tin a week of it.

Something nefarious is going on.

Yes, it's moving when you see little children with their mothers but in most of these images I see men in their twenties and thirties. When the men desert their own country what becomes of that country?

Besides the many other problems in these countries, they really need to throw off the teachings and control of the Catholic church. Especially when it comes to birth control. How many children do you have to bring into the world before you figure out you can't take care of them? I hear some of these women being interviewed about being unable to feed their "five children," "eight children," "four children," etc. These women need to learn about and utilize birth control. Or FIGHT for it, just like women did here in the U.S.

What freaks people out watching this is not rooted in lack of compassion --- it's wondering when does it end...how many will keep coming...and who are these people...and what have they been involved in?

Recent Case in point: Suffolk County, in Long Island. A slew of MS13 related crimes, including murders. So, there is some justification for pausing here and wanting to know more.

[norman]

I've seen plenty of women with babies in the pictures of the first caravan, but I'm sure that anyone managing it has plenty of feedback from the European experience to make sure they have plenty of mother/child optics.

The second caravan looks a bit more like 'the real thing' I'd expect to see. Quite cronic hungry but the young breadwinners with enough energy to make a long journey in a hope that all this fuss is going to get them somewhere.

[norman]

And some people wonder why Americans are losing the middle class, can’t afford higher education, are becoming poorer... it’s because the 1% are not satisfied with 87% of the wealth you and I produce. The writing is on the wall, and soon we’ll occupy the same boat as those we currently berate for poverty, and the failure to enslave others.



If you'd unpack that a bit, and get the head banging out of it, I think you'd make a profound case for finding real work for educatated moralists.

I can't fault the logic but I just don't know how to work with that yet.

[Flash]

I've seen plenty of women with babies in the pictures of the first caravan, but I'm sure that anyone managing it has plenty of feedback from the European experience to make sure they have plenty of mother/child optics.

The second caravan looks a bit more like 'the real thing' I'd expect to see. Quite cronic hungry but the young breadwinners with enough energy to make a long journey in a hope that all this fuss is going to get them somewhere.

YEs the second caravan looks more worrisome, definitely. Where are the women and children from the first caravan?

And yes, my thinking for the young males alone is M13 infiltration, definitely.

As for starving kids, or women, they are all slim, they don't look well nourished.

If you truly read my previous posts, you will see that I think half are genuinely poor, the other half is doubtful. Also, to answer other posters, women can take contraceptives, they want it, but either cannot afford them because they are poor, or have the dumped reject from American pharmaceutical companies, not good enough for American women, that are not stopping pregnancies and make then sick.

You cannot know how it is, it seems, if you do not have seen it near you.

Another one lived years ago in El Salvador: me waking up at night by gunfire shots heard. I ask my Salvadorian room mate what is that and she says: go back to sleep, we are near a police station and police are shooting people at night.

Have you ever lived that in any North American city, openly execution place being a police station.

[Deux Corbeaux]

Don´t forget, this is what your great-grandparents’ caravan looked like......

https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2018/10/28/1b0ded110cba0843fc6bbdff4a002504-full.jpg (https:///)

I know, I know, that was another time ;)

[Orph]

Don´t forget, this is what your great-grandparents’ caravan looked like......

Yes, that's true. Those were my ancestors. They came to a land that was already occupied as well. It didn't work out too well for those that already lived here. :cry:


And the wheel keeps turning.

[norman]

I've seen plenty of women with babies in the pictures of the first caravan_(corrected - I was looking at hand carried bundles), but I'm sure that anyone managing it has plenty of feedback from the European experience to make sure they have plenty of mother/child optics.

The second caravan looks a bit more like 'the real thing' I'd expect to see. Quite cronic hungry but the young breadwinners with enough energy to make a long journey in a hope that all this fuss is going to get them somewhere.

. . . . . Where are the women and children from the first caravan?



Your right, I went back and had a fresh look. I got hand carried bundles confused with carried toddlers and babies.

Thank you.

[Pam]

It saddens me that many people think that this migration is a "storming" of anything.

Nor has this movement of people come upon us suddenly or without good reason.

People generally only risk their lives and the lives of their family when their situation is so dire that the alternative is as bad or worse.

I am not saying that the USA should open the border to every poor migrant, but the hysteria over this caravan being some sort of threat to security seems ridiculous to me.

I don't have any problem with immigration, and do have empathy for the poor. What I have a problem with is that there are established ways to apply for citizenship. You don't need to storm the borders in large numbers. In no way should that be tolerated. Also, poor is a relative word. What kind of poor? Are these people hungry and homeless or do they want more of the materialistic life of excess promoted in media and movies? Does anyone here really know the actual circumstances that these people left?

Peterpam, just go live in a real poor country for a few months, such as Haiti or El Salvador or some neighborhoods of Brazil, you will understand what poor means.

Poor is poorer than the poorest ghettos in America.

Poor means that your child will die of hunger next week, literally.

Poor means that you have been sleeping in the street, without food, and water tinted with bits of coffee to feed your 2 years old, that is all. It may mean having to, yes having to, prostitute oneself to feed one's family, while not feeding oneself, ultimate self sacrifice.

If I were in these situations, I would try anything to save my family, yet, I may not even have the will or ability to try, being so undernourished.

At least half of any of these people into harsh immigration attempts (in Europe or USA) are in these situations, even if young and male. The other half, well, it may be another story altogether.

You are right, Flash, I have not lived in areas of extreme poverty for an extended amount of time. I can only imagine what that means. This in no way changes how I feel. There are avenues for applying for asylum. All that I am suggesting is that they apply for asylum in their countries of origin if they want to become citizens of this country.

Let's say we respond emotionally to this situation instead of using reason and logic. Let's say we allow them entry with the intention that they report back at the time of their hearing. Most of these folks have nothing with them. Who is going to give them housing, food, and medical treatment. Housing at this time in this country is so inflated that many are living in their cars, rvs or homeless. Do you think it is fair to allocate housing for these illegal immigrants before the citizens?

While I have not been a witness to long term extreme poverty I am wondering if you have been a witness to the vast exploitation of our welfare and entitlement programs by both citizen and immigrants? As a nurse, I have witnessed it first hand. I have also watched my taxes increase to the point that my monthly property tax payment is as much as my house payment was and it is going higher. That does not include the other taxes I pay. I will admit that there is waste throughout the government, but I don't think I am alone as a middle class person in feeling really, really tired of paying for those that chose to exploit the system. I have no trouble whatsoever in assisting those that are truly disabled.

Do you think this will be the only large migrant group that will come here if they are given access immediately? How do you think the backlog of asylum seekers that have followed the protocol would feel if some are allowed immediate access based on poverty? Do we allow entrance to anyone without knowing their background?

Would you advocate giving more children to a foster family that is unable to properly care for the kids they have? I liken that to the US. We have a large homeless population not to mention the unknown number of folks living in their vehicles. Many, many are working folks that just can't afford the cost of renting or home ownership.Should we prioritize these people over our own citizens?

[Pam]

A second migrant caravan of about 1,000 Hondurans is heading to the US, following the first.


Now, some of these really DO look like they could be cronic hungry. I guess they've noticed some sort of a fuss about going north to find a fix for their problems.

https://www.infowars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/102318secondcaravan.jpg




Norman, I respectfully disagree with you. These young men look very healthy to me. I don't see some of the obvious signs of malnutrition. Most of them have glowing skin, and bright eyes and no muscle wasting. In fact they look a lot healthier than many young men I see here in the US.

[Flash]

It saddens me that many people think that this migration is a "storming" of anything.

Nor has this movement of people come upon us suddenly or without good reason.

People generally only risk their lives and the lives of their family when their situation is so dire that the alternative is as bad or worse.

I am not saying that the USA should open the border to every poor migrant, but the hysteria over this caravan being some sort of threat to security seems ridiculous to me.

I don't have any problem with immigration, and do have empathy for the poor. What I have a problem with is that there are established ways to apply for citizenship. You don't need to storm the borders in large numbers. In no way should that be tolerated. Also, poor is a relative word. What kind of poor? Are these people hungry and homeless or do they want more of the materialistic life of excess promoted in media and movies? Does anyone here really know the actual circumstances that these people left?

Peterpam, just go live in a real poor country for a few months, such as Haiti or El Salvador or some neighborhoods of Brazil, you will understand what poor means.

Poor is poorer than the poorest ghettos in America.

Poor means that your child will die of hunger next week, literally.

Poor means that you have been sleeping in the street, without food, and water tinted with bits of coffee to feed your 2 years old, that is all. It may mean having to, yes having to, prostitute oneself to feed one's family, while not feeding oneself, ultimate self sacrifice.

If I were in these situations, I would try anything to save my family, yet, I may not even have the will or ability to try, being so undernourished.

At least half of any of these people into harsh immigration attempts (in Europe or USA) are in these situations, even if young and male. The other half, well, it may be another story altogether.

You are right, Flash, I have not lived in areas of extreme poverty for an extended amount of time. I can only imagine what that means. This in no way changes how I feel. There are avenues for applying for asylum. All that I am suggesting is that they apply for asylum in their countries of origin if they want to become citizens of this country.

those legal avenues s are pretty blocked for anyone in their own country. Not taking drastic measures means staying in their dire circumstances.

But, on the other hand, not supporting their government take over through dictatures would be a start in helping them to remain in their own countries. It would help to have them remain in their country while being fed and lodge for the most part, having a country not completely scrapped by us and our oligarchy.

I do not say that opening the borders would be the thing to do. I just say HAVE COMPASSION for the families

Let's say we respond emotionally to this situation instead of using reason and logic. Let's say we allow them entry with the intention that they report back at the time of their hearing. Most of these folks have nothing with them. Who is going to give them housing, food, and medical treatment. Housing at this time in this country is so inflated that many are living in their cars, rvs or homeless. Do you think it is fair to allocate housing for these illegal immigrants before the citizens?

I agree, the price tag is very high for housing in the US, for US citizen and this is not normal either. People should normally be able to lodge and feed themselves, mostly if working, and then even if not working but sick or having a life mishap or being a veteran.

Your situation for the used to be middle class in the US is not from normal human empathetic society. Moslty no falt of the US citizens, but falt to brainswashing which makes you apathetic and the skewed economy towards the rich ones.

While I have not been a witness to long term extreme poverty I am wondering if you have been a witness to the vast exploitation of our welfare and entitlement programs by both citizen and immigrants? As a nurse, I have witnessed it first hand. I have also watched my taxes increase to the point that my monthly property tax payment is as much as my house payment was and it is going higher. That does not include the other taxes I pay. I will admit that there is waste throughout the government, but I don't think I am alone as a middle class person in feeling really, really tired of paying for those that chose to exploit the system. I have no trouble whatsoever in assisting those that are truly disabled.

Please I am Canadian. Our system is 100 times better for the poor than yours and therefore very much exploited by anyone who can do it illegally. I have seen it all. Yet, it dit not make us poorer. But if my Canadian citizens could not have health care without being thrown in the street afterwards, yes, I would feel frustrated that others have the services.

Do you think this will be the only large migrant group that will come here if they are given access immediately? No it won't and yes it has to be stopped, WITH COMPASSION. How do you think the backlog of asylum seekers that have followed the protocol would feel if some are allowed immediate access based on poverty? Do we allow entrance to anyone without knowing their background?

Would you advocate giving more children to a foster family that is unable to properly care for the kids they have? I liken that to the US. We have a large homeless population not to mention the unknown number of folks living in their vehicles. Many, many are working folks that just can't afford the cost of renting or home ownership.Should we prioritize these people over our own citizens?

Yes, you have a large homeless population and it is an international shame - how come the richest country in the world cannot take care of its poorest ones?? Please, American, stop the brainswash and change your thinking, values and beliefs for the good of all, all your citizens. This would help the whole planet. .

I read somewhere that (Hall Turner thread) that US/Russia are preparing for a war. This is nut, completely nut. When will we lead for peace? for compassion? And stop the wars.

You know, I personally think that lots of the illegal immigration problem in Europe and the USA is karma.

A return of the damage we have done to these people with relentless wars, pillaging their resources, supporting or creating their dictatorships, supporting or creating their drugs cartels, and more. All this while being passive in our values and letting the mad men direct us for the last 100 years. Karma man!!

If the way of thinking and the lack of compassion goes on, for the US citizen as well as for the foreigners, karma will keep piling up.

(Soros the angel of Karma, this is a weird thought :()

[Pam]

It saddens me that many people think that this migration is a "storming" of anything.

Nor has this movement of people come upon us suddenly or without good reason.

People generally only risk their lives and the lives of their family when their situation is so dire that the alternative is as bad or worse.

I am not saying that the USA should open the border to every poor migrant, but the hysteria over this caravan being some sort of threat to security seems ridiculous to me.

I don't have any problem with immigration, and do have empathy for the poor. What I have a problem with is that there are established ways to apply for citizenship. You don't need to storm the borders in large numbers. In no way should that be tolerated. Also, poor is a relative word. What kind of poor? Are these people hungry and homeless or do they want more of the materialistic life of excess promoted in media and movies? Does anyone here really know the actual circumstances that these people left?

Peterpam, just go live in a real poor country for a few months, such as Haiti or El Salvador or some neighborhoods of Brazil, you will understand what poor means.

Poor is poorer than the poorest ghettos in America.

Poor means that your child will die of hunger next week, literally.

Poor means that you have been sleeping in the street, without food, and water tinted with bits of coffee to feed your 2 years old, that is all. It may mean having to, yes having to, prostitute oneself to feed one's family, while not feeding oneself, ultimate self sacrifice.

If I were in these situations, I would try anything to save my family, yet, I may not even have the will or ability to try, being so undernourished.

At least half of any of these people into harsh immigration attempts (in Europe or USA) are in these situations, even if young and male. The other half, well, it may be another story altogether.

You are right, Flash, I have not lived in areas of extreme poverty for an extended amount of time. I can only imagine what that means. This in no way changes how I feel. There are avenues for applying for asylum. All that I am suggesting is that they apply for asylum in their countries of origin if they want to become citizens of this country.

those legal avenues s are pretty blocked for anyone in their own country. Not taking drastic measures means staying in their dire circumstances.

But, on the other hand, not supporting their government take over through dictatures would be a start in helping them to remain in their own countries. It would help to have them remain in their country while being fed and lodge for the most part, having a country not completely scrapped by us and our oligarchy.

I do not say that opening the borders would be the thing to do. I just say HAVE COMPASSION for the families

Let's say we respond emotionally to this situation instead of using reason and logic. Let's say we allow them entry with the intention that they report back at the time of their hearing. Most of these folks have nothing with them. Who is going to give them housing, food, and medical treatment. Housing at this time in this country is so inflated that many are living in their cars, rvs or homeless. Do you think it is fair to allocate housing for these illegal immigrants before the citizens?

I agree, the price tag is very high for housing in the US, for US citizen and this is not normal either. People should normally be able to lodge and feed themselves, mostly if working, and then even if not working but sick or having a life mishap or being a veteran.

Your situation for the used to be middle class in the US is not from normal human empathetic society. Moslty no falt of the US citizens, but falt to brainswashing which makes you apathetic and the skewed economy towards the rich ones.

While I have not been a witness to long term extreme poverty I am wondering if you have been a witness to the vast exploitation of our welfare and entitlement programs by both citizen and immigrants? As a nurse, I have witnessed it first hand. I have also watched my taxes increase to the point that my monthly property tax payment is as much as my house payment was and it is going higher. That does not include the other taxes I pay. I will admit that there is waste throughout the government, but I don't think I am alone as a middle class person in feeling really, really tired of paying for those that chose to exploit the system. I have no trouble whatsoever in assisting those that are truly disabled.

Please I am Canadian. Our system is 100 times better for the poor than yours and therefore very much exploited by anyone who can do it illegally. I have seen it all. Yet, it dit not make us poorer. But if my Canadian citizens could not have health care without being thrown in the street afterwards, yes, I would feel frustrated that others have the services.

Do you think this will be the only large migrant group that will come here if they are given access immediately? No it won't and yes it has to be stopped, WITH COMPASSION. How do you think the backlog of asylum seekers that have followed the protocol would feel if some are allowed immediate access based on poverty? Do we allow entrance to anyone without knowing their background?

Would you advocate giving more children to a foster family that is unable to properly care for the kids they have? I liken that to the US. We have a large homeless population not to mention the unknown number of folks living in their vehicles. Many, many are working folks that just can't afford the cost of renting or home ownership.Should we prioritize these people over our own citizens?

Yes, you have a large homeless population and it is an international shame - how come the richest country in the world cannot take care of its poorest ones?? Please, American, stop the brainswash and change your thinking, values and beliefs for the good of all, all your citizens. This would help the whole planet. .

I read somewhere that (Hall Putoff thread) that US/Russia are preparing for a war. This is nut, completely nut. When will we lead for peace? for compassion? And stop the wars.

You know, I personally think that lots of the illegal immigration problem in Europe and the USA is karma.

A return of the damage we have done to these people with relentless wars, pillaging their resources, supporting or creating their dictatorships, supporting or creating their drugs cartels, and more. All this while being passive in our values and letting the mad men direct us for the last 100 years. Karma man!!

If the way of thinking and the lack of compassion goes on, for the US citizen as well as for the foreigners, karma will keep piling up.

(Soros the angel of Karma, this is a weird thought :()


Thank you , Flash. You have certainly made some valid responses. Your indictment seems to be towards the way the US is run and the programming of it's citizens including myself. I will certainly consider what you say as I see truth there. Personally, I couldn't agree more with what you say about the US.

I will share a little story that doesn't seem related. I volunteer for a low cost/free spay and neuter program. We do a huge number in one day. My job was to wait outside the turn around in the front of the property and pick up the cats from their owners out of the cars. I kept noticing that some people were pulling up in very expensive cars, women dressed to the nines with manicured fingernails. Certainly, not all, but enough that I noticed. I asked the Veterinarian that does these programs around the state about it. Why are people with so many assets taking advantage of this program? Why do we let them? She said something I will never forget, "because they don't have funds available to do this". It took me a second to understand. They put their money where there priorities are, we all do, and spaying a cat was not where they wanted to spend their money. That is what the US does. We spend the bulk on military and waste it on an ever expanding bureaucracy I can rail against it all day and it won't change a thing. At this point all I can do is hope that they don't begin to overlook lawlessness on a large scale and let the precarious balance tip off the scales.

I do not condone the actions of the government, but I live here nevertheless. While we give aid to so many countries apparently there isn't enough to help the folks living in their cars here. I get that.There are many of us that devote a lot of time to right the wrongs here. In my small community we have places that offer free lunches, we have thrift stores to help raise money for helping people with housing costs. I could go on and on, but we are not all gluttonous mindless consuming machines without empathy. I admit that we are programmed daily, as I am sure you are. We are called "consumers" in the US, after all. I do a lot of volunteering and I used to feel it was all hopeless. What we were doing was hardly a drop in the ocean, finally I came to conclusion that it was our little drop, by itself its nothing much but a drop. but combined with other drops it is the vast ocean.

We have been programmed to believe that we live in Countries with definite boundaries. Everything is set up that way. Unless we change that concept we can't ignore it. Idealistically, I don't believe in boundaries, I don't believe in land ownership, but I don't live in my ideal world, I have to work with what I have, whether I like it or agree with it. That is where I start.

[Pam]

Migrant Caravan Continues for U.S. Border After Rejecting Mexico's Offer to Stay




http://time.com/5436923/migrant-caravan-continues-us-mexico/

If I was really poor and hungry, I would have taken Mexico up on this wonderful offer.

[norman]

I read somewhere that (Hall Putoff thread) that US/Russia are preparing for a war. This is nut, completely nut. When will we lead for peace? for compassion? And stop the wars.

You know, I personally think that lots of the illegal immigration problem in Europe and the USA is karma.

A return of the damage we have done to these people with relentless wars, pillaging their resources, supporting or creating their dictatorships, supporting or creating their drugs cartels, and more. All this while being passive in our values and letting the mad men direct us for the last 100 years. Karma man!!

If the way of thinking and the lack of compassion goes on, for the US citizen as well as for the foreigners, karma will keep piling up.

(Soros the angel of Karma, this is a weird thought :()

I do feel the karma to speak of. I named my daughter Karma.

I'm firstly focussed on the viability of the human race, as a human race with all the aspects we've glimpsed and confirmed are doable if we get it right.

Karma, I'm at a loss to account for, in that schema of things I'm concerned about.

If we really have screwed ourselves with extinction level bad karma, can we at least choose our next of kin, and give the future generations the best we can give them, instead of a looted and hopelessly missunderstood ( and lost ) knowledge ?

[TomKat]

The BBC said the reason the caravan refused asylum in Mexico is because it was not a real offer. They were restricted to the two southern regions of Mexico and 80% would likely have been sent back and not offered asylum. Plus they complained that the wages are no higher than where they came from, which sounds opportunistic on their part.

[Pam]

The BBC said the reason the caravan refused asylum in Mexico is because it was not a real offer. They were restricted to the two southern regions of Mexico and 80% would likely have been sent back and not offered asylum. Plus they complained that the wages are no higher than where they came from, which sounds opportunistic on their part.

So, many did have jobs, apparently. They want to make more money, is that it? I would love to hear one reporter ask them this simple question: Exactly what were you told would happen once you got to the US? This thing is clearly "sponsored". Too bad those that would manipulate these people didn't offer to build up the communities where these folks originate from. I wonder how much they spent coming up with and planning this?

[Andre]

Perhaps Alex Jones knows a thing or two if he's inferring the Soros family is involved with this caravan of migrants. After all, it has been widely reported that Soros was behind the mass migration of Middle East refugees to Europe. Soros's game plan is the destruction of national borders everywhere, so in light of this, it's pretty easy to connect the dots and assert that he would be involved in using the same tactics in North America.

"Soros admits involvement in migrant crisis" - https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2015/11/02/soros-admits-involvement-in-migrant-crisis-national-borders-are-the-obstacle/

"Unmasked: The Mastermind behind the Mass Invasion of Europe and His Plan in 8 Steps" - https://new.euro-med.dk/20151106-unmasked-the-mastermind-and-his-plan-behind-the-mass-invasion-of-europe-in-8-steps.php

"How George Soros Singlehandedly Created The European Refugee Crisis - And Why" - https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-08/how-george-soros-singlehandedly-created-european-refugee-crisis-and-why
(https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-08/how-george-soros-singlehandedly-created-european-refugee-crisis-and-why)

[norman]

I don't know who this guy is, but he seems to have a decent grasp of the Soros phenomenon.

https://youtu.be/UjlWqbLT3gI?t=576

[norman]

Ok I found out who the guy is. He's Lee Stranahan. The guy he's countering is:

This Guy, Scott Adams:

This video will start where he starts to talk about George Soros.
https://youtu.be/hzpPqG3dJ78?t=1785



- or -

The whole thing (he says a lot of interesting stuff)

hzpPqG3dJ78

He's a pretty cool talker.

He goes through a few bullet points of subjects and asks smart questions.

[norman]

Border Forces Train For Arrival of Migrant Caravan – As MSM Calls It ‘Imaginary’

Local media reports border security training to take on caravan – while CNN says nothing to see here!

Adan Salazar (https://www.infowars.com/author/adan-salazar/) | Infowars.com - November 1, 2018


Local and federal law enforcement are reportedly teaming up to strengthen border security in Texas southmost regions, where the caravan has been predicted to arrive.https://www.infowars.com/border-forces-train-for-arrival-of-migrant-caravan-as-msm-calls-it-imaginary/

[norman]

Inside Judicial Watch: What the Mainstream Media WON'T Tell You About The Migrant Caravan Crisis

prg4HwgrOmw
https://yt3.ggpht.com/a-/AN66SAxLWa27MKrjXVoDY3PU5RfphidvxsPfEXOIkw=s48-mo-c-c0xffffffff-rj-k-no (https://www.youtube.com/user/JudicialWatch)Judicial Watch (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGDaOZg2INC0Qg2Z203F1dA)
Streamed live on 1 Nov 2018

In this episode of "Inside Judicial Watch," JW Director of Investigations & Research Chris Farrell discusses his recent trip to Central America investigating the migrant caravan heading to the United States--and what the mainstream media is not telling you about it.

[norman]

President Trump Migrant Caravan New Policy Press Briefing Border Security Speech

TLcajdcU-vU
https://yt3.ggpht.com/a-/AN66SAz8b56UJM1YKyYsxT1hyXs-3mxIJODJl9nz7A=s48-mo-c-c0xffffffff-rj-k-no (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgAvalds_Q4FLwt2K_L57Ug)Space Force News (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgAvalds_Q4FLwt2K_L57Ug)
Published on 1 Nov 2018

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I’ve visited the US many times and I will never get used to the poverty I’ve seen there, unknown for west Europeans.
I’ve also experienced the rich, but you over there would probably call them the upper middle class.

Sounds like you hit up the big cities just like virtually every other tourist who comes here. In other words, you went to exactly the places that I have no interest in ever seeing in my entire life, and I live here.

Those places happen to be run exclusively by Democrats, so whatever you see there, you can chalk up to the American equivalent of what was behind the Iron Curtain during the Cold War. They're all communists masquerading under the names of "democracy" and "socialism." And yes, they have tremendous poverty, and tremendous wealth. They gut the middle class just as Marxism doesn't leave any room for a middle class, and I've seen leftists in other countries even have open disdain for the very idea of a middle class.


The US has got great nature and is a beautiful place to live, but only for the ones that don’t have money problems

If you leave the aforementioned hellholes, aka colossal blue smears of urban ghettos, you actually stand a fair shot at getting a decent job and earning a living for yourself. Ie, the American Dream.


But I must admit that privatisation and bad border control is putting us under pressure and is making us poorer.

The solution to privatization is letting government politicians and bureaucrats manage things, right?

[Deux Corbeaux]

I’ve visited the US many times and I will never get used to the poverty I’ve seen there, unknown for west Europeans.
I’ve also experienced the rich, but you over there would probably call them the upper middle class.

Sounds like you hit up the big cities just like virtually every other tourist who comes here. In other words, you went to exactly the places that I have no interest in ever seeing in my entire life, and I live here.

Those places happen to be run exclusively by Democrats, so whatever you see there, you can chalk up to the American equivalent of what was behind the Iron Curtain during the Cold War. They're all communists masquerading under the names of "democracy" and "socialism." And yes, they have tremendous poverty, and tremendous wealth. They gut the middle class just as Marxism doesn't leave any room for a middle class, and I've seen leftists in other countries even have open disdain for the very idea of a middle class.


The US has got great nature and is a beautiful place to live, but only for the ones that don’t have money problems

If you leave the aforementioned hellholes, aka colossal blue smears of urban ghettos, you actually stand a fair shot at getting a decent job and earning a living for yourself. Ie, the American Dream.


But I must admit that privatisation and bad border control is putting us under pressure and is making us poorer.

The solution to privatization is letting government politicians and bureaucrats manage things, right?

Dear Voice, your assumptions really made me smile :rolleyes:. However, it's your reality. I don´t mind.

I hope you will be able to avoid living in the ´blue smears of urban ghettos´, or trailer parks for the less fortunate, ´blue and red´.....

But above all, I hope you will be able to live the American Dream, whatever that may be.

Stay healthy and be strong for the years to come.

I wish you well.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Dear Voice, your assumptions really made me smile :rolleyes:. However, it's your reality. I don´t mind.

We can talk economic statistics if you want.

I live in a deeply rural area -- we have no homeless rambling around.

Have you ever seen downtown Los Angeles?

Why don't you throw in a foreign country for comparison too, and we can make this even more interesting. UK perhaps? Canada? France? All of them have lower GDP per capita than the US.

https://www.dailywire.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_full/public/uploads/2018/01/homeless_man_los_angeles_gi.jpg

https://cdn.newspunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/los-angeles-crisis-homeless-678x381.jpg

https://tribktla.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/homeless.jpg


Even living in a trailer park would be an improvement over this level of absolute filth.

All run exclusively by Democrats.


By the way, have you seen Paris lately?

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/02/28/12/3DCA54C300000578-0-image-a-11_1488285208873.jpg

http://mb.ntdin.tv/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/slum_paris_gan_30-10-17.png

https://themuslimissue.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/hundreds-of-migrants-mostly-from-eastern-africa-living-in-tents-under-a-subway-bridge-in-paris.jpg

What a beautiful city. Can you tell me what progressive policies you have implemented to reach such levels of civilization?


Personal anecdotes are worthless. Talk numbers.

[Deux Corbeaux]

Ami Horowitz Goes To Mexico To Learn 'The Truth Behind The Caravan'

https://www.dailywire.com/news/38293/watch-ami-horowitz-goes-mexico-learn-truth-behind-james-barrett?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro

We've been hearing all kinds of contradictory stories about the massive migrant caravan steadily making its way north across Mexico to the U.S. border, but what's it really like on the ground? Is it a group of desperate families who've spontaneously banded together to try to find a better life? Or is it something less noble and more orchestrated, as some reports suggest.

Conservative filmmaker Ami Horowitz decided to see for himself and brought his camera crew so others could get a glimpse at "the truth behind the caravan."

"The caravan is a giant group of people that emanated, for the most part, in Honduras and are heading up to the U.S.," Horowitz explains. "A lot has been said about this caravan, so I decided to go down, check it out for myself, and figure out what is the reality versus the fiction."

Horowitz took his crew down to the base camp for the caravan in the southern state of Oaxaca, which he describes as "an area of Mexico which is riddled with narco-crime and cursed with extreme poverty."

"Despite the framing of the caravan as being full of women and children, the reality on the ground is quite different. Approximately 90 to 95% of the migrants are male," notes Horowitz, over footage of rows and rows of men.

"The major narrative being pushed by the press is that the migrants are leaving Honduras because they are escaping extreme violence and that their lives are under constant threat, setting up the strategy that they will be able to enter the U.S. by asking for asylum," "he says. "So I started by asking them a simple question: Why are you coming to America?"

The answers he gets don't appear to align with the "extreme violence" claims. "Well, I'm looking for a better life — economic," says one male migrant. "I wish to get there and work there," another male migrant says. "Because in Honduras there are no jobs," says another. "We are looking for a better life, because we don't have jobs," another man agrees.

Most of the other migrants Horowitz features answer something similar: "For jobs," "To work." Some of the migrants cite education. "Because I want to finish my studies there," says one young man.

As for the "spontaneity" of the caravan, Horowitz demonstrates that it's anything but spontaneous: "There's a massive logistical effort underway, akin to moving an army," he explains, over footage of all of the manpower and resources required to keep the caravan operational. "And it's clearly costing someone millions of dollars for transportation, food, water, medicine and services that are being provided for members of the caravan."

"It's a supply chain that's being delivered by an army of trucks, which are all necessary to keep this enormous group moving forward," he continues over video of trucks filled with supplies and transport vehicles crammed with migrant men.

Along with the Mexican government, which is helping to escort the caravan, and the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, which is supporting the caravan's efforts, are "ever-present" members of a group called Pueblo Sin Fronteras, or "People Without Borders," a self-described "immigration rights group" that is supporting and directing the caravan toward its final destination.

"They're the ones that seem to be most involved in organizing and mobilizing this caravan," says Horowitz. "The organization, as the name implies, is looking to create a world without borders, which seems to be one of the reasons why they organized this caravan in the first place, to flout American sovereignty."

WATCH


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quz5A87Oqgc

[norman]

General Mattis 14 November 2018
p-J8OknGUqs

[Bruno]

Rural vs Urban Poverty

I looked up stats on rural vs. urban poverty levels in the United States.
From the United states Census:
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2017/11/income-poverty-rural-america.html

Households in rural areas have lower incomes than those in urban areas but they are less likely to live in poverty than their urban counterparts.

According to the 2015 American Community Survey, median household income for rural households was $52,386, about 4 percent lower than the median for urban households.

But the percentage of people living below the official poverty threshold was 13.3 percent, almost three points lower than the 16 percent in urban areas. Also, income inequality, as measured by the Gini index, was lower for rural households than urban households. The Gini Index measures income inequality. The index varies from 0 to 1, with a 0 indicating perfect equality, where there is a proportional distribution of income. A Gini index of 1 indicates perfect inequality, where one household has all the income.

So there is a little less than three percent difference in poverty rates according to the census bureau. With that being said I can tell you that people that require state funded services tend to move to where they can access them, just as people tend to move to cities to look for work as there is at least the belief that there is more opportunity there. There are more minorities in cities, including LGBT people, percentage wise, not because fewer people are born gay in rural settings but because they have more supports in the cities and tend to move there to draw strength from like minded communities.

I live in region just west of Toronto with a population of approximately 500, 000. I live in Kitchener, but our twin city Waterloo shares the same main street and you can not tell when you are in one city or the other for the most part. Kitchener has quite a few homeless people in its downtown, Waterloo has virtually none. Why? because Kitchener has several homeless shelters, soup kitchens and food banks in the downtown. If you are homeless in Waterloo you quickly learn that you need to move up the street a few kilometres if you want to eat regularly.

It is faulty logic that looks at the tent cities in large metropolitan areas and thinks that they are there because cities are run by democrats or that those people were born in the city they are homeless in. The US like many western nations has had decades of growing inequality between the wealthiest and the poorest of its citizens. The vast majority of people don't want to live like that, but mental health, addictions, and dwindling education and job opportunities put them there.

[Fellow Aspirant]

Good info, Bruno, and well said. Homelessness is an ongoing problem everywhere, and increasingly so in Canada. Historically, the poor have always headed for larger population centres. One of the biggest problems is the decreasing availability of shelter as more and more of the city cores get bought out by developers and offshore investors. There's little left downtown for the poor.

Brian

[hermit]

Describe to me if you will, how the world will really work once you just knock down those borders? Like I said ideologically that sounds well and good, but what about reality?

I don't mean to sound like a wet blanket, but one thing I have learned over the years is you work with what you have, you start from where you are, not where you think you'd like to be.

did I say just knock down the borders?

"Mixture of cultures can be nasty at first but with the proper guides and guidance (the ones in power just right off will certainly take advantage of it.) Maybe the new era will usher us into a new common good culture. Dissolve borders and dissolve cultures make way for a better one... when we are ready"

There is a right and wrong way to do the right things

Who decides the right and wrong way?

What you're describing treads very closely to fascism.

[hermit]

I don't have any problem with immigration, and do have empathy for the poor. What I have a problem with is that there are established ways to apply for citizenship. You don't need to storm the borders in large numbers. In no way should that be tolerated. Also, poor is a relative word. What kind of poor? Are these people hungry and homeless or do they want more of the materialistic life of excess promoted in media and movies? Does anyone here really know the actual circumstances that these people left?

A couple of years ago, I flew to Toronto. I'd spent my life living in a very small city in western Canada, and this was an adventure for me. I got off the plane, navigated Pearson, took the train to Union Station, and walked through downtown Toronto at rush hour. I walked down Bay Street, and watched as the city emptied onto the streets. So many people! So many sounds, colours, so many different people!

I was taking pictures of every building I saw. I know everyone in a suit knew I was a tourist and I didn't care! I walked about an hour through the city to Cabbage Town to the convent I was staying at.

Something that I saw, and was really aware of, was the vast discrepancy between those who were very rich, and those who were on the streets, hiding behind dumpsters and peeking down alleys, people sleeping under benches in pocket parks, people sleeping in doorways, people with addictions, people who were sober, people who had Jesus, people who cursed God.

The other thing I noticed is how every person I saw walked past, didn't look, ignored. Thousands of people walked by a woman who was in tears, visibly hungry (and starving), reaching out her hand.

But what really stuck with me was the day of the Pride Parade. A million people on the streets just watching this thing, and I must say: this was probably the most significant time in my life that I felt part of the Queer Tribe, felt proud of my culture, felt proud of what we as a community had achieved. I was standing against a building in a line that was three-four people deep. A space about two feet ran between there crowd against the building and the crowd on the street, and the path on the sidewalk between allowed for a steady stream of people to move in two way traffic from. From one direction, a homeless man who only had a pair of pants to his name was smiling, toothless, dancing, full of life and joy. From the other direction, a 20 something with expensive clothes, well groomed, saw him approaching. He covered his face, and turned the other way.

I ask you: who was the poor man that day?

People who say that poor is relative are coming from a position of privilege: they are able to differentiate because it allows them to remain comfortable without having to actually face the poverty they're trying to avoid.

There's a plaque on the Statue of Liberty that people forget exists. And it's ironic when you think about the fact that once upon a time, the Statue of Liberty greeted immigrants to the United States. Now, Liberty has turned her back on the country she was once a beacon to.

Before we who are easily able to define poverty become too haughty, too protected, too distanced from what poverty really is, we need to remember that we are confronted with an image of who we really are when we face someone in poverty. We're confronted with an opportunity to extend ourselves beyond our protective definitions, and challenged to embrace the human being in front of us, the person who is a *unique creation* in this universe, a treasure, something that should be celebrated.

It's an illusion to think that we're reaching down to help someone up. We're reaching up to stand equally with those who are above us. The people who approach the border are providing a unique opportunity for the culture they approach to redefine itself, to return to the values that made it great: openness, compassion, welcoming.

Fear is protecting you from seeing how distanced you are from what would make you truly human.

[Flash]

I don't have any problem with immigration, and do have empathy for the poor. What I have a problem with is that there are established ways to apply for citizenship. You don't need to storm the borders in large numbers. In no way should that be tolerated. Also, poor is a relative word. What kind of poor? Are these people hungry and homeless or do they want more of the materialistic life of excess promoted in media and movies? Does anyone here really know the actual circumstances that these people left?

A couple of years ago, I flew to Toronto. I'd spent my life living in a very small city in western Canada, and this was an adventure for me. I got off the plane, navigated Pearson, took the train to Union Station, and walked through downtown Toronto at rush hour. I walked down Bay Street, and watched as the city emptied onto the streets. So many people! So many sounds, colours, so many different people!

I was taking pictures of every building I saw. I know everyone in a suit knew I was a tourist and I didn't care! I walked about an hour through the city to Cabbage Town to the convent I was staying at.

Something that I saw, and was really aware of, was the vast discrepancy between those who were very rich, and those who were on the streets, hiding behind dumpsters and peeking down alleys, people sleeping under benches in pocket parks, people sleeping in doorways, people with addictions, people who were sober, people who had Jesus, people who cursed God.

The other thing I noticed is how every person I saw walked past, didn't look, ignored. Thousands of people walked by a woman who was in tears, visibly hungry (and starving), reaching out her hand.

But what really stuck with me was the day of the Pride Parade. A million people on the streets just watching this thing, and I must say: this was probably the most significant time in my life that I felt part of the Queer Tribe, felt proud of my culture, felt proud of what we as a community had achieved. I was standing against a building in a line that was three-four people deep. A space about two feet ran between there crowd against the building and the crowd on the street, and the path on the sidewalk between allowed for a steady stream of people to move in two way traffic from. From one direction, a homeless man who only had a pair of pants to his name was smiling, toothless, dancing, full of life and joy. From the other direction, a 20 something with expensive clothes, well groomed, saw him approaching. He covered his face, and turned the other way.

I ask you: who was the poor man that day?

People who say that poor is relative are coming from a position of privilege: they are able to differentiate because it allows them to remain comfortable without having to actually face the poverty they're trying to avoid.

There's a plaque on the Statue of Liberty that people forget exists. And it's ironic when you think about the fact that once upon a time, the Statue of Liberty greeted immigrants to the United States. Now, Liberty has turned her back on the country she was once a beacon to.

Before we who are easily able to define poverty become too haughty, too protected, too distanced from what poverty really is, we need to remember that we are confronted with an image of who we really are when we face someone in poverty. We're confronted with an opportunity to extend ourselves beyond our protective definitions, and challenged to embrace the human being in front of us, the person who is a *unique creation* in this universe, a treasure, something that should be celebrated.

It's an illusion to think that we're reaching down to help someone up. We're reaching up to stand equally with those who are above us. The people who approach the border are providing a unique opportunity for the culture they approach to redefine itself, to return to the values that made it great: openness, compassion, welcoming.

Fear is protecting you from seeing how distanced you are from what would make you truly human.

I pretty much like what you are saying.

There is about 6 to 10,000 potential immigrants in that caravan. Nothing compared to the millions in Europe. Don't tell me that the USA is not able to handle 20,000 strong caravan easily, this is ludicrous. Of course, they can, and without violence.

By handling I do not mean getting them in, I mean doing due process at a fast speed.

This is created hatred towards other people, many starving without a dim hope of a better future if they stay put in their country.

Help the real, without corruption, improvement of their country and they will stay put, and.. it will be altogether less expensive. Instead, they have CIA sponsored drug cartels, bombs and imposed governments take over backed by the USA, well, this is karma, they are now wanting to come in because of despair.

[Valerie Villars]

Hermit, I agreed with your post except for the part about fear. We need to have Rule of Law for all; not just for American citizens. There are many thousands of illegal immigrants here who are draining our system. It's hard for many of us poor people to nod our heads to giving free services to people when we cannot get the same help for ourselves.

If they don't have to follow the law, then why do we? Why should we?

[Franny]

Came across this video today. It's based on a report by an ex CIA man tho' that might not impress some folks. Nevertheless this information may be what starts to bring more of the threads of information together into a coherent narrative.

Migrant Caravan: Its Purpose in Warfare Against the U.S. | Honduras Caravan 2018

This report was produced last November by The Epoch Times, a multi-language news agency headquartered in New York City, founded in 2000 by a group of Chinese Americans. The original focus of the service was uncensored news about human rights in China but its YouTube channel, Declassified has lately been producing excellent reports about the Cold Civil War currently being fought within the US Government.

This report about the migrant caravans is starkly different from anything I've seen in the Mainstream Media. It's based on an article by retired CIA operations officer, Brad Johnson, who claims that the caravans are being financed by the state of Iran, as part of the "Axis of Unity" with Venezuela and Cuba and others against "US imperialism". He says that Iranian intelligence and military officers are embedded in Venezuela's equivalent organizations, some in high-level positions of authority. Together with Cuba's "highly professional" intelligence agency, they are organizing the caravans as a means of asymmetrical warfare.

As reported by presenter, Gina Shakespeare, this Axis of Unity lacks the military capability to inflict a direct defeat and has therefore weaponized poor people in Honduras in a strategy of "death by a thousand cuts," to inflict damage, whenever and however you can to weaken your enemy, to the point where they can ultimately be defeated.

These columns of migrants are being purposely deployed to "Undermine US sovereignty, while avoiding direct conflict. They were likely conceived and financed by Iran, then implemented by Venezuela, working closely with the Cubans and Nicaraguans to sow political division and chaos in the United States and to absorb resources at little expense to them," in close cooperation and coordination with transnational criminal organizations, such as the narco-traffickers and gangs active throughout Mexico and especially along the US border.

Also involved is the Bolivarian Alliance aka Alba, supported by Iran, China and Russia who all share the United States as their common foe. Ex-CIA Brad Johnson who authored this report claims that the intelligence services of Iran, Russia, China, Cuba and Venezuela, in addition to the trained intelligence personnel from all terrorist groups consider this migrant column an irresistible opportunity to infiltrate people into the United States. This was corroborated by Guatemalan president, Jimmy Morales, who reported that 100 people arrested out of the column marching toward the United States last October have links to terrorism, including the ISIS terrorist group.

Most distressing of all according to this report is that the DNC and the US Mainstream Media are seemingly operating in agreement with these inimical forces, who intend to damage and ultimately destroy the US.

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[Andre]

I've never heard of the Iranians working with Venezuela and Cuba before. Sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

[Franny]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Iran is a very active country and they have long standing grievances against the US. Why not get together with others that have similar goals to share the costs and resources.

I hope to find more information to confirm these things, but they do seem quite possible to me.

[mojo]

ISIS plotted to send westerners to U.S through Mexico border: report

https://www.foxnews.com/world/isis-plot-westerners-mexico-border

Lest we forget the Dems 4 AM talking point. Peeved that this crisis is not even being fixed by the Congress.
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And now Dems are blaming Trump for failing at the Border crisis. Although Trump is trying to do something Congress has not acted so whom is really failing? The person that is trying or the ones that complain but dont do anything?
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