Reviewing, “Where Did The Towers Go?”

[yankee451]

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Steve-Where-did-the-towers-go-300x169.jpg (http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Steve-Where-did-the-towers-go.jpg)A dozen years ago I was a fan of Dr. Judy Wood. There, I said it.
To be fair, at one point or another I was a supporter of most of the truther hypotheses, and I assume most serious truth seekers have a similar story, of bouncing around from one camp to another in search of the truth. After a while I realized that none of the popular hypotheses have a satisfactory explanation for what happened on 9/11, that instead of leading me to the truth, they all left me with more unanswered questions.
There is no collaboration of research in the misnamed movement, no sharing of notes to eliminate those hypotheses that don’t fit the evidence, no open debates or peer reviews. The 9/11 Truth Movement is an ironic name for an online popularity contest. It is not a peace movement, or even a truth movement; it is a place to keep the unwashed masses busy, while the war machine marches on. I was a much younger man than I am today, when I realized that if I was ever going to learn the truth, I would have to do the work for myself.
From what I know about forensic investigations, the first step ought to be to examine the scene of the crime for clues, but this is evidence the truth movement won’t touch. To ignore such critical evidence seemed strange to me, because at the time I was still under the naive impression the truth movement was started to expose the truth about 9/11. Now however, I am under no such illusions. After 17 years of war, war and more war, it goes without saying that exposing the truth was never the goal; all along the intent was to divide and conquer us. For more than a decade and a half the leaders of the opposition have been leading us in circles, transparently attempting to cover-up the evidence that can lead to the truth, while misdirecting us with half-truths and false-leads. This is what controlled opposition looks like, but to convince the average “truther” of this has been a challenge. You know what they say; it is easier to fool someone than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
We in the 9/11 Truth Community are often myopically focused on the details of the event; the collapses, the planes, the jumpers, etc., but a sometimes overlooked line of investigation is the history of propaganda, propaganda techniques and the methods used in perception management. So if you haven’t already done so, take a detour from your 9/11 studies to learn about how easily the “powers that be” control opposition movements; and that they do so by leading them; which brings me to Dr. Judy Wood.
I have resisted reading Dr. Wood’s book, “Where Did the Towers Go?” for more than a decade because the evidence I’ve seen leads me to the conclusion the World Trade Center was gutted of all infrastructure, and planted with explosives, just as all controlled demolitions are. There is no evidence to support the conclusion the steel was turned to dust by exotic, top secret weapons, and to read what I already know to be irrelevant seemed like a colossal waste of time. Besides, the thought of supporting (with my money), what I consider to be full-blown propaganda, was distasteful to me.
What’s changed is that lately I have been targeted by Dr. Judy Wood’s followers as an agent of “disinformation,” something that amuses my friends, co-workers, and family. Dr. Wood’s fans behave like cult members; they treat their mystical leader with awe and reverence while they cling to her book like some sort of Bible, and they won’t listen to anyone who hasn’t read it. So to show my heart is in the right place, I held my nose, paid my money, and set aside the time to review “Where Did the Towers Go?” I admit I am biased against Dr. Wood and her followers, but that’s only from personal experience.
Here is the exchange I had with Dr. Wood from about six years ago, when I started the 9/11 Crash Test project:
At 12:58 PM -0600 9/2/12, Stephen De’ak wrote:
Greetings Dr. Wood,
As I’m sure you already know, Dr. Reynolds and I are embarking on a publicity-stunt/laboratory-experiment designed to help raise awareness in the slumbering masses. We disagree on much but we have put aside our differences for this project, and in the same spirit of peace, solidarity and fellowship I invite you to join us with a public endorsement. The goal is to have the truth movement put aside their differences and join forces with more mainstream organizations who share our common goal of peace.
Please let me know your thoughts, and thank you.
Sincerely,
Steve De’ak
http://911crashtest.org


From: Dr. Judy Wood
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 7:04 PM
To: Stephen De’ak
Subject: Re: 9/11 Crash Test
Importance: High
Dear Steve De’ak,
I am not part of a “Truth Movement” so I must decline being a part of whatever it is you are seeking to advance.
The truth is known. Why seek to cover it up and distract away from it?
As a forensic scientist and engineer, I have no interest in participating in a “publicity stunt” nor do I wish to be a part of it.
You say your group wishes to “join forces with more mainstream organizations,” but it is not clear if you are referring to organizations related to the entertainment industry or if you are referring to organizations related to professional engineering disciplines.
If you are seeking to join forces with the entertainment industry, you may be on the right path. But that is not my area of expertise.
If you are seeking to join forces with the engineering profession, you are not on the right path. But this is my area of expertise. As an engineer, I have conducted a comprehensive forensic investigation and have published the report in a way that anyone can understand if they truly want to know what happened.
The truth is known, so why spend yet more energy and expense to divert attention away from it and create yet another “opinion movement” or a “distraction movement” …unless it is your intention to cover up the truth?
So, I must ask, what is your objective?
What problem are you trying to solve?
With sincerity,
Dr. Wood
http://wheredidthetowersgo.com
B.S. Civil Engineering (Structural Engineering)
M.S. Engineering Mechanics (Applied Physics)
Ph.D. Materials Engineering Science

At 08:46 PM -0600 9/2/12, Stephen De’ak wrote:
Dear Judy Wood,
Perhaps “publicity stunt” was a poor choice of words, but I was being sincere. The point is to raise awareness. I will be surprised if a scientific test that could prove the government lied will be allowed, but every step of the project will help raise awareness with the public, so if we’re being honest, and I am, then it is a publicity stunt/scientific experiment.
The truth may be known to you as a forensic scientist, but I am trying to reach everyone else.
My “group” is me, and me alone; I am trying to do what I can and I’m sorry you don’t want to be a part of it.
Sincerely,
Steve De’ak

From: Dr. Judy Wood
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 8:06 PM
To: Stephen De’ak
Subject: RE: 9/11 Crash Test
Dear Mr. De’ak,
(I do not believe we are on a first-name basis.)
You say you want to “help raise awareness with the public.” Do you think the public is unaware that something happened on 9/11/01?
I will ask again,
So, I must ask, what is your objective?
What problem are you trying to solve?
If it is to “raise awareness,” why not wear a sandwich board and walk around the streets where people are.
If you want to prove that the official story is not what we were told, well…that’s already been done, submitted to a government agency, and taken to court. Why cover that up? Why reinvent the wheel? To distract away from what has been done and start all over again to run out the clock?
But your “test” will not prove the official story is incorrect. At best, you will only demonstrate that you were unable to replicate it. That will not prove anything, but just confuse and muddle things up. That’s what keeps a cover up in place. Perhaps that is your objective.
Seriously, what problem are you trying to solve?
You need not tell me your answer, but it might help if you asked yourself this question, first, before proceeding.
With sincerity,
Dr. Wood

To: ‘Dr. Judy Wood’
Subject: RE: 9/11 Crash Test
Dear Dr. Wood,
Please call me Steve. I’m surprised that someone with your credentials would recommend a sandwich board as a way to raise awareness.
Good luck,
Steve
So with that, linked below is a draft of a review of the first three chapters of “Where Did the Towers Go?”

http://yankee451.com/?p=4642

[chancy]

Hello Yanke451:

Thanks for the thread but I like Dr.Woods do not understand what you are trying to do? Yes, I have read the thread and yes I am familiar with most of the theories on 9/11.

I think most people just don't care about 9/11. They allowed the governement to give a good story and were ok with that.

There is alot of evidence that leads most of us to believe this was a false flag operation since building 7 went down without a nick to the building at all.

Because 9/11 touched pretty much everyone on this planet I believe it was designed to do just that. It changed planet earth for humans as we know it.

I believe it hurt us as humans because we were buffaloed into believing down right lies. For those people who cared enough like yourself to follow what happened we all got let down in various ways.

Thanks for the thread and have a great day!
chancy

[Matt P]

There actually is video evidence of steel literally turning into dust.

qa0iIYMSIOk

There is also conclusive proof of nano thermite and nuclear reactions. It makes perfect sense to use multiple methods to bring the buildings down. They needed to make absolutely certain they came down with all their other plans in motion and it creates confusion in the aftermath. I’ve been sorry to see so many camps not being willing to admit they could all be right.

Matt

[yankee451]

@ mpennery


There actually is video evidence of steel literally turning into dust.

No there isn't. The steel was coated with dust, and then fell straight down, which left the dust hanging in the air (of course, because in the real world steel does NOT turn to dust!)
ir-3jXl0U5E

WIU3A4-roKM

[yankee451]

Hello Yanke451:

Thanks for the thread but I like Dr.Woods do not understand what you are trying to do? Yes, I have read the thread and yes I am familiar with most of the theories on 9/11.

I think most people just don't care about 9/11. They allowed the governement to give a good story and were ok with that.

There is alot of evidence that leads most of us to believe this was a false flag operation since building 7 went down without a nick to the building at all.

Because 9/11 touched pretty much everyone on this planet I believe it was designed to do just that. It changed planet earth for humans as we know it.

I believe it hurt us as humans because we were buffaloed into believing down right lies. For those people who cared enough like yourself to follow what happened we all got let down in various ways.

Thanks for the thread and have a great day!
chancy

Hi Chancy,

What don't you understand about what I'm trying to do? Did you read the full article, or just our email thread? You say 9/11 changed the planet, but I see it as business as usual all over again, albeit on such a scale that it can't be hidden anymore. 9/11 is our chance to evolve beyond the slavery mentality.

Steve

[Rawhide68]

Isn't this what the purprutatairs behind the sceem wants?
Us fighting among each other how the fkn buildings went down, instead of who was behind it ?

I lean on the Israel in corp with USA angle view
sw4UDcmOqp4

[Zanshin]

Hi Steve -

against my better judgement, I have perused yet another set of 'definitive causality' presentations for 911.
Come to find there is really nothing more here than a well researched and presented thesis together with another request for support of 'THE CONCLUSIVE EMPIRICAL TEST'.

Whilst one may find merit in the logic and reason employed to reach your conclusions, this must be balanced against an apparent attempt to oppose, disparage or otherwise attack almost any commentator or scholar who has ever risked reputation by promoting a line of thought in any way antithesis to your own.

My personal 'truthseeker' journey found me sufficiently 'woken' by that day (9/11), to immediately start seeking out the back story qui bono.

It was surreal to observe the effect the mainstream narrative had on those around me - blind acceptance of the 'facts' as presented coupled with a knee jerk support of what has become the war without end.

I have modified my own conclusions many times since, as to the modus operandi of the events that day - even further after viewing your presentations. I know I am still way short of the definitive version.

The overriding theme I have observed in all that time is those trying to expose the deception - constantly at each other's throats, AS TO THE METHOD instead of unifying against the perpetrators of the deception, AS TO THE INTENT AND DESIRED/ACHIEVED RESULT.

In the interests of pursuing solutions over further pixcellating a picture clear enough for most of us - or worse, provoking conflict amongst various contributors in the field (whatever the agenda); What results do you envision or are you striving for if you're successful in organising and completing your experiment?

For what it's worth I would agree the likely result is complete disintegration of the aircraft part upon collision with steel plate box section.

[Rawhide68]

Thanks Zanshin, there were a lot of new words (for me) english words in your post, could you boil down the content , I guess you where "channelling" or similar, so then you can't ,thats OK

[Zanshin]

Hey Rawhide - I'll give it a shot, although I think you said it well enough in 2 lines.


sn't this what the purprutatairs behind the sceem wants?
Us fighting among each other how the fkn buildings went down, instead of who was behind it ?


Before my comment above, I checked out Steve's (yankee451) take on 911.

Turns out I find someone attacking many different proponents and their theories - all during the process of presenting yet another theory.
Further - somehow a single successful experiment supporting one aspect of this new theory will change the whole ballgame.

While there is logic and reason in Steve's presentations, they are by no stretch definitive - as demonstrated by the need for a public spectacle experiment.

I trust the intention was not to deliberately pick fights with other well intentioned researchers.

It seems - as you said, the entire alternate community (in many different areas) are hell bent on attacking each other instead of banding together in unity against the dark hearts.

I know I get all wordy when I am passionate about a topic - I will try to simplify more often.

"channeling" or similar :bigsmile: that cracked me up.

[yankee451]

I don't know how to present the truth, without addressing how the truth contradicts the claims made by other truthers.

[yankee451]

Isn't this what the purprutatairs behind the sceem wants?
Us fighting among each other how the fkn buildings went down, instead of who was behind it ?

I lean on the Israel in corp with USA angle view


Okay. How do you propose identifying who was responsible, without being able to identify how it was accomplished?

[yankee451]

Hey Rawhide - I'll give it a shot, although I think you said it well enough in 2 lines.


sn't this what the purprutatairs behind the sceem wants?
Us fighting among each other how the fkn buildings went down, instead of who was behind it ?


Before my comment above, I checked out Steve's (yankee451) take on 911.

Turns out I find someone attacking many different proponents and their theories - all during the process of presenting yet another theory.
Further - somehow a single successful experiment supporting one aspect of this new theory will change the whole ballgame.

While there is logic and reason in Steve's presentations, they are by no stretch definitive - as demonstrated by the need for a public spectacle experiment.

I trust the intention was not to deliberately pick fights with other well intentioned researchers.

It seems - as you said, the entire alternate community (in many different areas) are hell bent on attacking each other instead of banding together in unity against the dark hearts.

I know I get all wordy when I am passionate about a topic - I will try to simplify more often.

"channeling" or similar :bigsmile: that cracked me up.

To those who lament the infighting of the truth movement, and wonder why I do what I do, the whole idea behind the 9/11 Crash Test project was to band together to eliminate the hurdles that have kept the truth movement wandering in the wilderness for 17 years. We can't all be right, and it only benefits the perpetrators to have a divided and conquered truth movement, therefore we should be actively debating the subject as a way to weed-out those hypotheses that cannot be true, with the hopes of being left with the one most-likely explanation. Only then can we unite under one banner, but to think we should all get along to go along, is missing the point of the whole movement, and is ignoring the historical fact that the best way to control the opposition is to lead it. We don't have the luxury of assuming each and every one of us has the truth in mind.

[Zanshin]

yankee451, with respect -

At the risk of engaging in a perhaps fruitless debate, please consider the following:

You do seem quite liberal in the use of the terms 'truth' and 'fact' with regard to your particular thesis, without conclusive proofs for said thesis.
This, whilst dismissing out of hand, other perspectives without absolute evidence supporting such complete dismissal.

As Matt has indicated above, many of the theories put forth have at least some merit and would demonstrate multiple causes and methodologies.

As to the question of identifying the perpetrators without definitively quantifying the method, I reiterate - qui bono?

Who benefits?

Aside from the decimation of multiple middle eastern countries post event, an agenda pushed relentlessly by the neo-cons -

-foreknowledge/forewarning of the event (including, without limit to, primetime, pre-emtive announcement of WTC7 collapse)
-the insider trading (shorting of stock)
-the insurance policies collected upon
-the disclosure of missing trillions (never to be mentioned officially since)
-the documents and gold conveniently vanished in the event,

would be some areas to begin.

While these categories may have some elements of speculation and reliance on circumstancial evidence, the common thread
would be the lack of requirement for definitive evidence as to the specific methods used by the perps.

With reference to Rawhide's post above, Chis Bollyn's examination of motive (and indications of foreknowledge) resonates for me.

42 mins in (time restraints preclude further listening) - and not a single reference to the specifics of how the event was orchestrated.

I will be off air for a time - I trust this response will go some way toward demonstrating the value of the many perspectives
developed in our attempts as a community to get to the bottom of this travesty.

[Satori]

Isn't this what the purprutatairs behind the sceem wants?
Us fighting among each other how the fkn buildings went down, instead of who was behind it ?

I lean on the Israel in corp with USA angle view


Okay. How do you propose identifying who was responsible, without being able to identify how it was accomplished?

For what it's worth:

Following this premise to its logical conclusion under your analysis and theory, it would be more revealing and informative to identify the people who arranged for the removal of the contents in the buildings as you assert occurred. I'm not talking about the truck drivers and movers, but those who made the ultimate decision to do as you suggest.

If conventional explosives were used, and I believe they were used, but I cannot say that conventional explosives were the exclusive means of destruction, then saying they were used tells us nothing about who placed them there (nor when and how) and who arranged to have them placed there. Knowing these things is more likely to lead to the discovery (but not necessarily the apprehension and prosecution) of the perpetrators.

Before I continue, let me say that I neither agree with or disagree with Dr. Judy Wood's theory. I do not have sufficient foundational information to draw entirely satisfactory conclusions regarding what she asserts. But, I do think she makes some good points. And, if she is correct, then knowing that DEWs or such thing(s) were used tells us the "how" and thus provides more clues and information about "who." "Who" would be state actors and/or supranational globalist cartels. Certainly not OBL in a cave and 19 boxer cutter wielding MidEasterners "flying" commercial airliners.

9/11 was carried out for myriad reasons and it benefitted many people who are at the helm of a wide range of businesses (especially financial businesses, such as banks, investment houses and insurance companies) and several governments.

As far as the causes of the destruction of WTC 1 and 2 on 9/11, I long ago concluded that the insurance companies and syndicates that allegedly had to pay billions to Silverstein et al., we are told, know more than they are letting on as to how and who. This assumes that the insurance companies did any legitimate investigations into who and how before paying billions. I have serious doubts about that. No serious, legitimate investigation of 9/11 has been done on any official level and, consequently, the guilty retain their liberty. Liberty to do it again and again...

[yankee451]

Zanshin,

A debate is only fruitless if no one learns anything from it. I don't expect to convince you of anything, if that's what you mean, but you might learn where I'm coming from.

You wrote:

You do seem quite liberal in the use of the terms 'truth' and 'fact' with regard to your particular thesis, without conclusive proofs for said thesis.
This, whilst dismissing out of hand, other perspectives without absolute evidence supporting such complete dismissal.

Please be specific, because from my perspective, you're describing Judy Wood, who wrote this:

"The truth is known, so why spend yet more energy and expense to divert attention away from it and create yet another “opinion movement” or a “distraction movement” …unless it is your intention to cover up the truth?"

The 'truth' to me is the body of evidence and the facts as they stand, whether or not they agree with my beliefs or preconceptions. To discover the truth behind a crime, for example,the investigators will collect all the information they can gather from the scene, and with what is learned from that evidence formulate a theory as to what happened. That is a step truthers like Judy Wood skipped.

What is your definition of the truth? Do you think Judy wood knows the truth?


As Matt has indicated above, many of the theories put forth have at least some merit and would demonstrate multiple causes and methodologies.

Okay, you mean Christopher Bollyn? Good propaganda contains an element of truth, else it wouldn't be believable, but like I wrote before, not everyone can be right. Bollyn may be pushing the right buttons to get the closet antisemite roused, but he doesn't try to explain how it was done, only who dunnit, but all he's doing is singling out one of the many entities that benefited from 9/11. But besides motive, who had the means and opportunity to accomplish it? Bollyn doesn't even identify how it was done, so you tell me why you think his claims have merit. How does he know who was responsible, without being able to identify how it was done?

If for example, this was a court case, and Bollyn was exposed for spreading false information about this very case, what would happen to the rest of his testimony? Would it all be taken at face value or would it all be considered unreliable? This is a serious question, by the way.


As to the question of identifying the perpetrators without definitively quantifying the method, I reiterate - qui bono?

That all depends on what you think their goals were. What I see as the bottom line is slavery. Who benefits from an invasion, the invaded, or the invader? Why do you think Israel benefited more than NATO did?



Who benefits?

Aside from the decimation of multiple middle eastern countries post event, an agenda pushed relentlessly by the neo-cons -
Well, I see big pharma benefiting from opiate addictions, thanks to the US military occupying the world's largest opium crop.

I see big energy benefiting from the Trans Afganistan pipeline.


I see the slave masters of all nations benefiting from more fear and more money spent on security, but less being spent on infrastructure, such as roads, bridges, hospitals, etc.

I see the largest military in history being given one excuse after another to invade, loot and occupy sovereign nations all based on an impossible lie that implicates the leader of any nation who is not calling it for the fraud it is.

Beyond that I see Cantor Fitzgerald, Marsh and Mclennan and all the other alleged tenants that collected BILLIONS from the victim compensation funds.


And more...



-foreknowledge/forewarning of the event (including, without limit to, primetime, pre-emtive announcement of WTC7 collapse)

Do you really think this was a gaffe? Why don't you consider that it was deliberate, to give their operatives something to talk about as they keep the truth movement chasing its tail for the next 30 years?


-the insider trading (shorting of stock)
More evidence that the perpetrators were at the pinnacle of power in US and NATO nations that control the stock markets.

-the insurance policies collected upon
It's called eliminating the competition.

-the disclosure of missing trillions (never to be mentioned officially since)
This was debunked years ago. https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-missing-21-trillion-6-5-trillion-2-3-trillion-journal-vouchers.t9718/


-the documents and gold conveniently vanished in the event,
More false leads in support of fully occupied towers, which were in fact empty. Can you, or anyone else, verify this alleged gold actually existed? Because I can point to evidence that indicates the towers were gutted and empty, as all are when they are demolished.


would be some areas to begin.

While these categories may have some elements of speculation and reliance on circumstancial evidence, the common thread
would be the lack of requirement for definitive evidence as to the specific methods used by the perps.

Are you describing Bollyn, who relies wholly on circumstantial evidence, and who has been exposed for spreading false information? The evidence I use to arrive at my conclusions is available to everyone, but it is evidence that Bollyn won't touch with a ten foot pole. It is evidence that I would refer to as "the truth."


With reference to Rawhide's post above, Chis Bollyn's examination of motive (and indications of foreknowledge) resonates for me.

Why?



42 mins in (time restraints preclude further listening) - and not a single reference to the specifics of how the event was orchestrated.


Exactly.


I will be off air for a time - I trust this response will go some way toward demonstrating the value of the many perspectives
developed in our attempts as a community to get to the bottom of this travesty.

Who knows. It all depends on whether or not everyone is willing to discuss the evidence.

[yankee451]

@ Satori




Isn't this what the purprutatairs behind the sceem wants?
Us fighting among each other how the fkn buildings went down, instead of who was behind it ?

I lean on the Israel in corp with USA angle view


Okay. How do you propose identifying who was responsible, without being able to identify how it was accomplished?

For what it's worth:

Following this premise to its logical conclusion under your analysis and theory, it would be more revealing and informative to identify the people who arranged for the removal of the contents in the buildings as you assert occurred. I'm not talking about the truck drivers and movers, but those who made the ultimate decision to do as you suggest.

If conventional explosives were used, and I believe they were used, but I cannot say that conventional explosives were the exclusive means of destruction, then saying they were used tells us nothing about who placed them there (nor when and how) and who arranged to have them placed there. Knowing these things is more likely to lead to the discovery (but not necessarily the apprehension and prosecution) of the perpetrators.

Before I continue, let me say that I neither agree with or disagree with Dr. Judy Wood's theory. I do not have sufficient foundational information to draw entirely satisfactory conclusions regarding what she asserts. But, I do think she makes some good points. And, if she is correct, then knowing that DEWs or such thing(s) were used tells us the "how" and thus provides more clues and information about "who." "Who" would be state actors and/or supranational globalist cartels. Certainly not OBL in a cave and 19 boxer cutter wielding MidEasterners "flying" commercial airliners.

9/11 was carried out for myriad reasons and it benefitted many people who are at the helm of a wide range of businesses (especially financial businesses, such as banks, investment houses and insurance companies) and several governments.

As far as the causes of the destruction of WTC 1 and 2 on 9/11, I long ago concluded that the insurance companies and syndicates that allegedly had to pay billions to Silverstein et al., we are told, know more than they are letting on as to how and who. This assumes that the insurance companies did any legitimate investigations into who and how before paying billions. I have serious doubts about that. No serious, legitimate investigation of 9/11 has been done on any official level and, consequently, the guilty retain their liberty. Liberty to do it again and again...

I repeat, how do you propose identifying who was responsible, without being able to identify how it was done, or at least the most likely explanation based on the available evidence? How were the holes in the towers cut, and why doesn't Bollyn (or any other truther) care?

[The Moss Trooper]

Hi yankee451,

I'm reading this thread with interest. I, like so many others, have no definitive stance on the who's and how's of 9/11, but read with interest those that profess to 'know' those mechanisms. Some of what you are suggesting makes a lot of sense to me, albeit a lot less 'fantastical' than other hypothesis i.e. a lot of the inner material not actually being there when the towers fell, hence, no evidence of it on the ground.

It does explain, for instance, how only a handful of small filing cabinets were found, presumably out of the many thousands that would have been in those buildings had they been occupied as we were led to believe. This point always troubled me with Dr. Woods hypothesis...... why would the DEW dustify all of those steel filing cabinets yet not all of the steel from the main buildings. Where were all of the thousands of wooden office doors? Not one was found. Same for the many thousands of taps from wash basins.

Could you expand you thought's to the many toasted and weirdly burnt vehicles that were evidenced that day, some of them a considerable distance from the main 'event', and how they came to be?

Regards.

[Cardillac]

@Yankee

"because in the real world steel does NOT turn to dust!)"

we're not living in a "real" world, at least according to our previous concepts of it before the development of advanced technologies-

since when?

since when are we not living in a world of deception, lies and illusions?- not to mention in a world of advanced technologies about which we've never been officialy informed (these technologies can probably turn anything into anything their developers want)-

Dr. Wood's book is completely apolitical; she Points no finger to a certain group being responsible for it-

Dr. Joseph Farrell takes the collapse of the twin towers to an even higher plain in his mind-boggling book "Hidden Finance, Rogue Networks and Secret Sorcery" with the sub-title "The Fascist International, 9/11 and Penetrated Operations"-

before anyone pours any hot coals on Dr. Judy Wood's research read the Farrell research- it explodes the mind-

please stay well yankee and all readers-

Larry

[yankee451]

@ The Crimson Horse Blanket


Could you expand you thought's to the many toasted and weirdly burnt vehicles that were evidenced that day, some of them a considerable distance from the main 'event', and how they came to be?

It will take me a few months to finish the review (my time is not my own), which will include the toasted cars. But for a clue, consider that the hyper corrupt NYPD, FDNY and Port Authority police hauled in derelict vehicles and set fire to them.

See this video: 6ZI5k_CPupw

Someone mentioned the insurance fraud involved in 9/11, which is where the vehicles come in. What a great way for the conspirators to replace their old fleets!

https://www.firehouse.com/home/news/10545284/rebuilding-the-fdny-apparatus-fleet-after-911

[yankee451]

@ Cardillac



@Yankee

"because in the real world steel does NOT turn to dust!)"
we're not living in a "real" world, at least according to our previous concepts of it before the development of advanced technologies-

since when?

since when are we not living in a world of deception, lies and illusions?- not to mention in a world of advanced technologies about which we've never been officialy informed (these technologies can probably turn anything into anything their developers want)-


You state that we're living in a world of deception, lies and illusions, and then state as fact that these technologies exist. But to verify these technologies exist, you must rely on information provided by the people who have created a world of deceptions, lies and illusions. I hope you can see the irony.

Dr. Wood's book is completely apolitical; she Points no finger to a certain group being responsible for it-

Because she avoids the evidence that can identify the most likely suspects.


Dr. Joseph Farrell takes the collapse of the twin towers to an even higher plain in his mind-boggling book "Hidden Finance, Rogue Networks and Secret Sorcery" with the sub-title "The Fascist International, 9/11 and Penetrated Operations"-

Like Judy Wood, and apparently, like all of her followers, Dr. Farrell won't touch the evidence of the impact holes. Why do you continue to turn to establishment-published authors for information, considering they are who created a world of deceptions, lies and illusions. According to Judy Wood, Farrell shouldn't be attempting to identify the "who," until he identifies the "how."


before anyone pours any hot coals on Dr. Judy Wood's research read the Farrell research- it explodes the mind-

What I see are a lot of people twisting themselves into a pretzel of denial while ignoring the evidence that leads me to my conclusions. Why do you think Farrell's work has more importance than the evidence at the scene of the crime?


please stay well yankee and all readers-

Larry

Thank you!

Likewise to you,

Steve

[yankee451]

For those of you who simply can't wrap your brain around the suggestion that members of the NYPD, FDNY, and Port Authority Police might have been involved, consider the fact that it was from FDNY that we got the stories of molten metal, flowing like rivers.

uQyIN6OTMyY

And from the NYPD comes the stories of fires so intense the concrete melted in its path.

Corruption in big-city police departments is legendary. Countless movies about dirty cops litter the video shelves; movies like Serpico, Internal Affairs, and the Godfather depict corruption everywhere. Everyone’s aware of Philadelphia PD corruption, of the LAPD and Rodney King, etc., etc. To a lesser known extent, but likely just as corrupt, come other big city departments, like the fire departments and social services, or the mayor’s offices. Influence peddling (read: graft, bribery) in local and national governments is commonplace, but we common folk prefer not to talk about it, or tell ourselves the good guys win in the end. It’s a happy fantasy.

We’ve all heard the stories about the brave FDNY and the rivers of molten steel. The fire department is presented as hero-victims of 9/11 and is therefore beyond suspicion and reproach, as is their claim of molten steel. Second only to the FDNY on the sympathy scale is the NYPD, but what many people don’t know is not only was steel in the sky turned molten by kerosene on 9/11, but according to the NYPD, it also melted concrete a thousand feet below and not only that but after it cooled, it solidified back into concrete, encasing firearms therein.

Melted concrete; why would they say that? Are they trying to give the impression that if the fires were so intense they could melt concrete then there’s no doubt they would melt steel? Since I look at everything as possible propaganda, that’s the Pachyderm-sized take-home lesson I have sitting in my living room, but I’m a cynic so let’s examine this claim to first see if it’s even possible.

Fact:

At the time of 911, Bernie Kerik was NYPD commissioner, and from there he went off to be the “Interim Minister of Interior – coalition Provisional Authority of Iraq” – he was allegedly not pilfering war-funds (you know, those pallets of cash that simply disappeared as soon as they arrived), but training locals to be good, honest cops. Unless I missed a recent headline, Kerik is currently doing time in a federal prison for other charges, but it gives a good idea of the kind of character that was in charge on 911.

Full article, here: http://yankee451.com/?p=963

[The Moss Trooper]

@ The Crimson Horse Blanket


Could you expand you thought's to the many toasted and weirdly burnt vehicles that were evidenced that day, some of them a considerable distance from the main 'event', and how they came to be?

It will take me a few months to finish the review (my time is not my own), which will include the toasted cars. But for a clue, consider that the hyper corrupt NYPD, FDNY and Port Authority police hauled in derelict vehicles and set fire to them.

See this video: 6ZI5k_CPupw

Someone mentioned the insurance fraud involved in 9/11, which is where the vehicles come in. What a great way for the conspirators to replace their old fleets!

https://www.firehouse.com/home/news/10545284/rebuilding-the-fdny-apparatus-fleet-after-911

Hmmmmmm............. Okay, the corruption that exists (existed) within the NYDP, FDNY & the PA I am of no doubt, but to tow and place ALL of the vehicles........... Possible. Likely? I dunno. I guess I'll have to wait until you publish the results of your research in that particular area.

Regards.

[yankee451]

@ The Crimson Horse Blanket


Could you expand you thought's to the many toasted and weirdly burnt vehicles that were evidenced that day, some of them a considerable distance from the main 'event', and how they came to be?

It will take me a few months to finish the review (my time is not my own), which will include the toasted cars. But for a clue, consider that the hyper corrupt NYPD, FDNY and Port Authority police hauled in derelict vehicles and set fire to them.

See this video: 6ZI5k_CPupw

Someone mentioned the insurance fraud involved in 9/11, which is where the vehicles come in. What a great way for the conspirators to replace their old fleets!

https://www.firehouse.com/home/news/10545284/rebuilding-the-fdny-apparatus-fleet-after-911

Hmmmmmm............. Okay, the corruption that exists (existed) within the NYDP, FDNY & the PA I am of no doubt, but to tow and place ALL of the vehicles........... Possible. Likely? I dunno. I guess I'll have to wait until you publish the results of your research in that particular area.

Regards.

How big is too big for a big lie?

[Cardillac]

@Yankee

"According to Judy Wood, Farrell shouldn't be attempting to identify the "who," until he identifies the "how."

since when did Wood access Farrell before the publication of his book long after her book??

"Dr. Farrell won't touch the evidence of the impact holes"- no, he didn't; he threw a net over the whole thing so that one can look at a complete picture instead of individual pixels-

"Why do you continue to turn to establishment-published authors for Information"

Farrell is anything but Establishment- where are you thinking?

"According to Judy Wood, Farrell shouldn't be attempting to identify the "who," until he identifies the "how."-

did you, yourself read Farrell's book?-

Farrell goes much more deeply into the scientifics of this than Wood has and I just think we need to keep an open mind and weigh all possibilities;

nothing, NOTHING on this earth is the way it appears on the surface;

I just think we must all believe this- and Wood's work appeared before Farrell's book publication; so how could Judy Wood's book refer to Farrell unless after the publication of Farrell's publication (if she read it or we're these statements from other sources?)- or are you quoting Wood after she read Farell's work?

of course, no sceintist want's to be balked by another scientist's research (God forbid!) and they all want to stay in their own comfortable cubicle but we all must be open to new ideas, even if they don't always fit into our own comfort zones-

be well all-

Larry

[The Moss Trooper]

@ The Crimson Horse Blanket


Could you expand you thought's to the many toasted and weirdly burnt vehicles that were evidenced that day, some of them a considerable distance from the main 'event', and how they came to be?

It will take me a few months to finish the review (my time is not my own), which will include the toasted cars. But for a clue, consider that the hyper corrupt NYPD, FDNY and Port Authority police hauled in derelict vehicles and set fire to them.

See this video: 6ZI5k_CPupw

Someone mentioned the insurance fraud involved in 9/11, which is where the vehicles come in. What a great way for the conspirators to replace their old fleets!

https://www.firehouse.com/home/news/10545284/rebuilding-the-fdny-apparatus-fleet-after-911

Hmmmmmm............. Okay, the corruption that exists (existed) within the NYDP, FDNY & the PA I am of no doubt, but to tow and place ALL of the vehicles........... Possible. Likely? I dunno. I guess I'll have to wait until you publish the results of your research in that particular area.

Regards.

How big is too big for a big lie?

Auch...... I'm all too aware of how big the porkie-pies may well be, but surely, in what, 17 years, there would have been someone step forward who witnessed the hundreds of vehicles being placed or set alight in situ, no?

I'm not arguing the fact, merely asking questions. Surely there would've been witnesses to that many vehicles being placed?

Regards.

[yankee451]

@ The Crimson Horse Blanket


Could you expand you thought's to the many toasted and weirdly burnt vehicles that were evidenced that day, some of them a considerable distance from the main 'event', and how they came to be?

It will take me a few months to finish the review (my time is not my own), which will include the toasted cars. But for a clue, consider that the hyper corrupt NYPD, FDNY and Port Authority police hauled in derelict vehicles and set fire to them.

See this video: 6ZI5k_CPupw

Someone mentioned the insurance fraud involved in 9/11, which is where the vehicles come in. What a great way for the conspirators to replace their old fleets!

https://www.firehouse.com/home/news/10545284/rebuilding-the-fdny-apparatus-fleet-after-911

Hmmmmmm............. Okay, the corruption that exists (existed) within the NYDP, FDNY & the PA I am of no doubt, but to tow and place ALL of the vehicles........... Possible. Likely? I dunno. I guess I'll have to wait until you publish the results of your research in that particular area.

Regards.

"

How big is too big for a big lie?

Auch...... I'm all too aware of how big the porkie-pies may well be, but surely, in what, 17 years, there would have been someone step forward who witnessed the hundreds of vehicles being placed or set alight in situ, no?

I'm not arguing the fact, merely asking questions. Surely there would've been witnesses to that many vehicles being placed?

Regards.

It is a fair question, but if someone wanted to blow the whistle, who would they turn to; to the media that broadcast the fake planes; to the NYPD that planted the plane parts, and opened museum exhibits to indoctrinate school children into believing the fires were so intense the concrete melted in its path; to the FDNY that was involved with producing propaganda films, wearing stage makeup, and spreading rumors about molten steel running like rivers; to the military that launched the missiles and planted the explosives; to the government that was about to declare war on the world? Where would you turn if you wanted to blow the whistle, knowing that the leaders of all these institutions are the most likely suspects?

Turning to them would be like turning to the NAZIs to investigate the Reichstag fire.

[yankee451]

@Yankee

"According to Judy Wood, Farrell shouldn't be attempting to identify the "who," until he identifies the "how."

since when did Wood access Farrell before the publication of his book long after her book??

"Dr. Farrell won't touch the evidence of the impact holes"- no, he didn't; he threw a net over the whole thing so that one can look at a complete picture instead of individual pixels-

"Why do you continue to turn to establishment-published authors for Information"

Farrell is anything but Establishment- where are you thinking?

"According to Judy Wood, Farrell shouldn't be attempting to identify the "who," until he identifies the "how."-

did you, yourself read Farrell's book?-

Farrell goes much more deeply into the scientifics of this than Wood has and I just think we need to keep an open mind and weigh all possibilities;

nothing, NOTHING on this earth is the way it appears on the surface;

I just think we must all believe this- and Wood's work appeared before Farrell's book publication; so how could Judy Wood's book refer to Farrell unless after the publication of Farrell's publication (if she read it or we're these statements from other sources?)- or are you quoting Wood after she read Farell's work?

of course, no sceintist want's to be balked by another scientist's research (God forbid!) and they all want to stay in their own comfortable cubicle but we all must be open to new ideas, even if they don't always fit into our own comfort zones-

be well all-

Larry

Oh joy, another book to read. Please cut to the chase and point to which book he has written where he researches the impact holes to the WTC, and I'll buy it and review it. From what I've read about him, he's throwing more of the same pixie dust into your eyes as Judy Wood.

If you really believe that nothing on this earth is as it seems, I suggest you start with the information that tells you the powers that be are all powerful. This is the same ploy they've been playing since god kings claimed supernatural powers, but replace religious dogma with science dogma and we're left in the same boat today.

If Farrell doesn't take what should be the first step in the investigation, by examining the impact holes at all 9/11 sites, then hell yes he's establishment.

[Cardillac]

@Yankee

"Oh joy, another book to read. Please cut to the chase and point to which book he has written where he researches the impact holes to the WTC, and I'll buy it and review it"

which books of his have you read?- probably none-

"the powers that be are all powerful. This is the same ploy they've been playing since god kings claimed supernatural powers, but replace religious dogma with science dogma and we're left in the same boat today"- I agree with you totally-

you're preaching to the choir-

but if you think Farrell is establishment then you're out of touch with reality;

Larry

[yankee451]

@Yankee

"Oh joy, another book to read. Please cut to the chase and point to which book he has written where he researches the impact holes to the WTC, and I'll buy it and review it"

which books of his have you read?- probably none-

"the powers that be are all powerful. This is the same ploy they've been playing since god kings claimed supernatural powers, but replace religious dogma with science dogma and we're left in the same boat today"- I agree with you totally-

you're preaching to the choir-

but if you think Farrell is establishment then you're out of touch with reality;

Larry

Perhaps your view of what is the establishment, is what is out of touch with reality. I have read none of his books, but I have read about his books, and my impressions are as I described. Please tell me which of his books deals with the scenes of the crime.

[Cardillac]

@Yankee

"I have read none of his books"

well, you might want to start there- great sources-

"but I have read about his books"- ???- please state sources where you "read about" his books-

"Please tell me which of his books deals with the scenes of the crime"-

I already stated this- and I will repeat this:

"Hidden Finance, Rogue Networks and Secret Sorcery"

read it- you might learn something new-

I have nothing more to say on this subject (already stated it) and will refrain from any more comments on this thread-

Larry

[yankee451]

@Cadillac,

I have read about his books by reading the descriptions of his books.

I gather he doesn't discuss the evidence that leads me to my conclusions, and that you prefer not to as well.

Thank you for the resources.

[yankee451]

For the record, I address Judy's argument, but none of her followers will address mine.

[Satori]

For the record, I address Judy's argument, but none of her followers will address mine.

Do you realize that, in the main, you are having a conversation with yourself on this topic?

I have addressed you, but you do not address the points or observations I make. Rather, you repeated your thesis.

Repitition is not a productive form of discussion, nor a way to convince your potential audience.

[mountain_jim]

Whitney Webb has authored such great content in the Big Picture thread.

(Can a twitter ban be far behind, Neon's GAB feed, where I got this, had his twitter feed shut down by twitter today.)

https://gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/008/693/965/original/74f68665191a73fe.jpeg?1568208250




https://gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/008/693/974/original/23dd2fad3cd3ccd8.jpeg?1568208263

[Ron Mauer Sr]

I read stories of precious metals, gold and silver worth billions, being removed under the WTC shortly before they fell. The stories of which WTC building held the metal are not consistent.

[Ernie Nemeth]

The same person who took over 2 years investigating Trump's alleged Russian ties, interviewing people three times removed (the 3 orbit sub-clause), that same person took 3 weeks to conclude their investigation into the trade tower disaster, including removing the evidence from the site and selling the twisted steel to a Chinese company. Nothing more need be said as far as the notion of conspiracy goes.

James Comey. Alex Jones has a clip about this notorious cover-up.

https://www.infowars.com/exclusive-new-information-about-9-11-investigation/

[mountain_jim]

Great current (twitter) coverage of 9/11 questions by Whitney here:

https://twitter.com/_whitneywebb

[East Sun]

WE now know where they went beyond a shadow of doubt as was suspected all along by the aware. It is more than obvious and no matter what their status is they are not above the law and should be held accountable. they should by right be in dungeons for the rest of their lives for their crimes against the usa.
****hole bastards who deserve to be incarcerated for ever.

[Hervé]

...

On the 9/11 False Flag and who did it... excellent condensed summary!


David Icke - "The Trigger" Book Launch Live From Derby (2 hours 31 mn)


SnIZpSE9e0k

https://yt3.ggpht.com/a/AGF-l79NsyxDo0RCO3iqGkpLCujdyKoHdHJ3RHLFcw=s48-c-k-c0xffffffff-no-rj-mo (https://www.youtube.com/user/davidicke) David Icke (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAhmDfQ1LfOYECmNNWgXJ7Q)

LIVE from Derby - the book launch event for David Icke's EXPLOSIVE new book - The Trigger (https://www.davidicke.com/article/548491/trigger-david-icke-pre-order-now)




https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1790281240/henry-makow_bigger.jpg (https://twitter.com/HenryMakow) Henry Makow‏ @HenryMakow (https://twitter.com/HenryMakow)

David Icke...on the "Sabbatean-Frank" evildoers who infiltrated everything. It's long but covers nearly everything people need to know. He correctly points out that these bad people are turning the real Hebrews into victims.
PS:


https://yt3.ggpht.com/-STDT5xmMMV4/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAAA/JTDE_6TEzKU/s48-c-k-no-mo-rj-c0xffffff/photo.jpg (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAhmDfQ1LfOYECmNNWgXJ7Q)
David Icke
(https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAhmDfQ1LfOYECmNNWgXJ7Q) 1 day ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnIZpSE9e0k&lc=UgzPMFzY8hx-XmrXeTh4AaABAg)

Thanks to everybody who tuned in to the live stream tonight! We apologise for the lack of audio around the 37:00 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnIZpSE9e0k&t=2220s) mark - this was due to the microphone running out of battery.




Video on Bitchute: https://www.bitchute.com/video/MScIL0ELNo6K/

[rodguy911]

I agree small nukes probably unearthed the foundation while super nanothermite dynamite and who knows what else were used to take down all there buildings. If anyone has a link for the company that did the renovation for the first bombing by the blind sheik please fire it my way.I recall a link that claimed that retired CIA operatives owned the company that did the renovation which took years and there were photos of all kinds of explosives loaded into the building where they could not readily be seen.
Also I have a theory about the pentagon fiasco. A strange case has been made that even though the holes were not big enough for a plane to go into at the pentagon it may have happened any way since there were so many eye witnesses.
My theory is that all three scenarios may have been used at the pentagon.The plane, a cruz missile and explosives from within the Pentagon may all have been used. No one would expect all three and it would be another fail safe for at least one or more of the attacks to have been successful.

[shaberon]

Great! I had missed any "in the now" statements about 9/11, no one really pays the least lick of attention to that day any more. Until the jingoistic banter from the Military- Industrial Complex....errr, the C-I-A shows up.

Only the Pentagon could be considered an attack against the "United States" since the others were against aircraft and property that belongs to someone else. Quit acting like you own me, that I am a part of you, or somehow am on your side, federal beast.

Seriously, outside of the MIC itself, no one wants to hear that patriotic drivel. If nothing else, it has "America Firsted" itself into irrelevance. Go to any house that flies the flag and find out if there is a military or similar governmental relation. The general masses don't like you enough to breathe a word about any "Patriot Day". You buried yourself in Syria.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Strange thing about 9/11 - or not so strange I suppose.

I got calls from friends and family, who otherwise pretend like they have no respect for me or my way of life. They called me because they wanted to know what was going on and figured since it was out of their normal experiences of normal people, an abnormal misfit might understand it all. I had no clue and was as stunned as the rest. But I had to set aside my panic and talk turkey with these folks.

I remember saying one thing over and over. The world will never be the same again...