Sherpas on Everest: the real mountaineers who make it all possible

[onawah]

A recent, alternative perspective regarding climbing Everest, and what it means to the sherpas.

( No disrespect meant to any climbers of Everest by me, but something I thought would be of interest to everyone re truly understanding the risks involved, and something I've wondered about, about the sherpas, who are perhaps, not as invincible as they have been made out to be previously...)
Glory or Death: Climbing Mount Everest (Full Segment) | Real Sports w/ Bryant Gumbel | HBO
Published on Sep 11, 2018
"For some, climbing Mount Everest is an achievement. For the sherpas, it's life. The danger that encompasses the climb slows down for neither."
tcmH0__c7aw

[Bill Ryan]

Yes, I know about this stuff. It's pretty interesting. And it's a very sobering (and accurate) video.

The only very small inaccuracy is that it's not quite true what Jombu Sherpa says at the very start of the video, that 'zero' non-Sherpa clients could do it without them.

Not zero. But maybe 1% could. (And, quite a few have, of course: but those are elite climbers, the best of the best. Most of those actually choose more difficult routes to the top, for the mountaineering challenge. What's being shown here is just the easiest way up.)

The rest pay $50,000 or more to be ferried and escorted to the top, with their hands held (almost literally), rather like small children going shopping with their parents. All for the ego trip of being able to say one's climbed Everest.

It's not like it used to be. :)

[Bill Ryan]

Another short video to complement the first one — about the first specialist, dedicated Sherpa rescue team.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtbQgLIuFyg
~~~

And an article from The Economist, a good one.


https://economist.com/prospero/2015/12/11/the-price-the-sherpas-pay-for-westerners-to-climb-everest

The price the Sherpas pay for Westerners to climb Everest
Smiling and resilient in the popular imagination, Everest's pack-carriers are demanding respect.

~~~

Finally, one more extraordinary Sherpa story. Amid all this seriousness, loss, and tragedy, one has to smile just for a moment at this.

In 1999, Babu Sherpa (who now has his own Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babu_Chiri_Sherpa)) climbed Everest on his own, taking just under 17 hours non-stop. He spent 21 hours on the summit, without oxygen, pitching his tent there and enjoying a good night's sleep. Both records still stand to this day. It was a ridiculous, superhuman, almost unbelievable feat.

He'd climbed Everest a total of ten times. But eventually, the Russian Roulette caught up with him. He died in a crevasse fall in 2001.

[Pam]

I can remember meeting someone that had climbed Everett and I was in total awe. That was until how I saw how he had done it.. I think within 2 minutes of meeting this guy I was told that he had climbed Mt. Everest which is what I guess it is all about for some.

I do acknowledge that those that pay to go up are taking risks with unpredictable weather and they obviously have to have stamina and a steady fortitude which I admire. I think what is missing is pitting yourself against the mountain and troubleshooting your way up with resourcefulness and courage. Everything that could possible be predetermined is done for them, It's all figured out in advance and a lot of the grunt work of climbing is done for you. It sort of demeans the accomplishment for those that are truly mountain climbers... I do acknowledge the accomplishment but it sure as heck isn't true mountaineering in my book.

[Forest Denizen]

I found the book, “Into Thin Air,” by Jon Krakauer to be incredibly gripping – and harrowing. They recently made a movie out of it which I haven’t seen and can’t speak to.

For those who haven’t read it, it’s about a disastrous day on Everest in 1996 when there were just too many inexperienced “climbers” being hand-held up and down the last leg of the effort. Krakauer was there when it happened so it’s not written by a journalist strictly doing interviews after the event.

Anyway, I went to Nepal in 1991, shortly after my divorce (I’d always been drawn there) as a way to basically rediscover who I was - as an individual. Was there for a month and fell in love with the place. It felt very familiar somehow.

Went trekking in Lang Tang, in the northern part of the country near the border with Tibet. It was spectacular!
Of course, we only went as high as around 13,000 feet but the Sherpas amazed me. Easily blowing past me (not really saying a lot but you get the picture) while carrying a huge wicker basket, each, piled high with three or four large American/European backpacks!

The Sherpas I met and hung out with were so kind and had such great senses of humor. I’m afraid the country has changed a lot since then, in many ways.
The 2015 earthquake destroyed so many spectacular ancient neighborhoods and sites that I was fortunate enough to visit when I was there. Would love to go back at some point.

[Pam]

I found the book, “Into Thin Air,” by Jon Krakauer to be incredibly gripping – and harrowing. They recently made a movie out of it which I haven’t seen and can’t speak to.

For those who haven’t read it, it’s about a disastrous day on Everest in 1996 when there were just too many inexperienced “climbers” being hand-held up and down the last leg of the effort. Krakauer was there when it happened so it’s not written by a journalist strictly doing interviews after the event.

Anyway, I went to Nepal in 1991, shortly after my divorce (I’d always been drawn there) as a way to basically rediscover who I was - as an individual. Was there for a month and fell in love with the place. It felt very familiar somehow.

Went trekking in Lang Tang, in the northern part of the country near the border with Tibet. It was spectacular!
Of course, we only went as high as around 13,000 feet but the Sherpas amazed me. Easily blowing past me (not really saying a lot but you get the picture) while carrying a huge wicker basket, each, piled high with three or four large American/European backpacks!

The Sherpas I met and hung out with were so kind and had such great senses of humor. I’m afraid the country has changed a lot since then, in many ways.
The 2015 earthquake destroyed so many spectacular ancient neighborhoods and sites that I was fortunate enough to visit when I was there. Would love to go back at some point.

"Into Thin Air" is an amazing read. I think the fact that these folks have paid a huge amount of money to be able to say they have climbed Everest is a factor of influence that just can't be ignored. It has to have some influence on the decisions that are made. When mountaineering becomes big business there has to be some negative effects. If my business reputation is on the line because I have fewer successful climbs, that is not good for business, in that case does safety and commonsense take a back seat?

[Bill Ryan]

I found the book, “Into Thin Air,” by Jon Krakauer to be incredibly gripping – and harrowing. They recently made a movie out of it which I haven’t seen and can’t speak to.

For those who haven’t read it, it’s about a disastrous day on Everest in 1996 when there were just too many inexperienced “climbers” being hand-held up and down the last leg of the effort. Krakauer was there when it happened so it’s not written by a journalist strictly doing interviews after the event.



In the Avalon Library, here:


http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Jon%20Krakauer%20-%20Into%20Thin%20Air%20-%20A%20Personal%20Account%20of%20the%20Mount%20Everest%20Disaster.pdf

The real hero of that incident was Russian mountaineer Anatoli Boukreev (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoli_Boukreev), who Krakauer very unfairly castigated. Boukreev made repeated solo ascents at night, without oxygen, in desperate conditions, to rescue several stranded climbers who would otherwise have certainly died.

Many notable mountaineers have since lauded him and opposed Krakauer's version of events. To bring this back to topic, what he did was extraordinary, a selfless feat of true heroism that only a Sherpa might have replicated.

[Forest Denizen]

I found the book, “Into Thin Air,” by Jon Krakauer to be incredibly gripping – and harrowing. They recently made a movie out of it which I haven’t seen and can’t speak to.

For those who haven’t read it, it’s about a disastrous day on Everest in 1996 when there were just too many inexperienced “climbers” being hand-held up and down the last leg of the effort. Krakauer was there when it happened so it’s not written by a journalist strictly doing interviews after the event.



In the Avalon Library, here:


http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Jon%20Krakauer%20-%20Into%20Thin%20Air%20-%20A%20Personal%20Account%20of%20the%20Mount%20Everest%20Disaster.pdf

The real hero of that incident was Russian mountaineer Anatoli Boukreev (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoli_Boukreev), who Krakauer very unfairly castigated. Boukreev made repeated solo ascents at night, without oxygen, in desperate conditions, to rescue several stranded climbers who would otherwise have certainly died.

Many notable mountaineers have since lauded him and opposed Krakauer's version of events. To bring this back to topic, what he did was extraordinary, a selfless feat of true heroism that only a Sherpa might have replicated.

Thank you, Bill. I have heard this also . I believe Boukarev may have written his own account as well.

[onawah]

As if it weren't dangerous enough already, imagine being on Everest in an earthquake...
Disaster on Everest Earthquake Nepal 2015 BBC Documentary 2015
SIzyAZHo5Lc

[onawah]

Climbing MT Everest with a Mountain on My Back
The Sherpa's Story
BBC full documentary 2013 nepal
HlAiU5fIaKY

[Agape]

It’s important to understand biological adaptation factor: generations of people who inhabited high altitude regions for many hundreds or thousands of years evolved wholy different red cell shape and metabolism tight to particular way of breathing allowing them to cope with low amount of oxygen, for example.
While most “people of planes” erythrocytes are oval shaped and slow, dependant on the right amount of oxygen for their survival ( and if not getting it blood circulation slows down naturally resulting in extreme fatigue and faster death of red blood count),
mountain people’s red cells tend to be smaller, round shaped and faster, oxygen is absorbed through shallow rapid breath( rather than deep inhaling that increases amount of nitrogen uptake and turns destructive to the organism).

The same type of biological adaptation was observed for example in Tibetans living in high plateaus, Nepali Sherpas or Andean mountain dwellers.

Depends on genetics: small number of people no matter where they were born are able to adapt their vital functions naturally,
not true for majority.

Nepal’s Mt Everest stories make me sad, personally. The few who are truly capable of climbing high mountains often do so for the love of mountains, love of Life ; not for competition or “love of Death”.
So do the Sherpas and other mountain people to whom those peaks are sacred.

Nepal has allowed huge amount of high mountain tourism in past decades it being their only source of income and results have been rather disasterous for many foreign climbers, environment ( beset with corpses, expensive trash and rubbish), so many lives and limbs were sacrificed for sake of crazy people’s ambitions.

Nepal is comparably small and poor country otherwise and would require and welcome foreign investment to be able to address its neglected environmental issues, protect its unique biodiversity, boost education, health care availability and good life for its minorities.
I wish that more people wanted to help Nepal to protect its natural beauty and the highest mountains in the world( especially those who have the funds and are able to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on expensive mountaineering gear and expeditions) instead just seeing and using it as expensive tourist hot spot.

Many good efforts have been made in that direction but not enough ..

Kathmandu suffers from lack of water, sanitation, is overwhelmed by increasing traffic sporting old dusty roads so that pollution levels are quite as high as in Delhi for example,
its ancient wooden temples are suffering so are the people. It all turned worse after the devastating 2015 7.8 Magnitude earthquake after which many of the frail, aged buildings collapsed and whole villages were wiped out of map.

Restoration works are in progress of course but it was one of the most devastating natural events in recent history(more than 11 000 people died) over couple of days so I really pray that people were able to go to Nepal for all the beauty of it, with humble spirits, be the lovers , not the conquerors ...

:heart:







https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_adaptation_in_humans

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2732148/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/science/2010/jul/02/mutation-gene-tibetans-altitude

[Bill Ryan]

There have been several videos posted on this thread, but this one might be one of the best. In just over 40 minutes, it tells the story of a young Nepalese-Canadian woman, Shriya Shah, who suddenly told her friends and family one day that she was going to climb Mount Everest.

She'd never climbed a mountain before. She didn't know a thing about it. Everyone tried to dissuade her. But she was known for her determination.

And, watching the film, ego clearly played its part. This is her promotional poster, photoshopped at home in Canada. She'd never been on snow apart from walking Toronto winter streets.

http://projectavalon.net/Shriya_Shah_sm.jpg

She picked a small hole-on-the-wall trekking company with no experience on the mountain, who no-one else on Everest had ever heard of. After her first major error of believing that she could actually do this, that was her second mistake.

When she got to base camp, it was evident that she was extremely slow. At one point, her lead Sherpa told her sister in Katmandu that she would surely die and also kill everyone else who was with her. But she still would not be dissuaded.

Meanwhile, Russell Bruce, the leader with by far the most experience on the mountain, had canceled his own expedition as the conditions were too unfavorable. His clients had all paid over $50,000 to get to the summit. There were no refunds. He simply made the responsible call. That's what leaders have to do.

Here's how the story ends.

Remarkably, Shriya struggled slowly, at a snail's pace, to the very top. She arrived there, late, at 2.30 pm (1.30 is usually regarded as the very latest safe turnaround time), and then dallied on the summit for a further half an hour.

She started back down at 3 pm, dangerously late, and with little oxygen left, her fate was already sealed.

When making the determining, committing, defining decision to climb a mountain, any experienced climber knows you have to make the equally determining, committing, defining decision to get back down again safely. She didn't know that, and no-one had told her.

She died 7 hours later. In the cold and dark at 10 pm, with her oxygen long since depleted, on the equally grueling and arduous way down. Other climbers on the way up, also climbing at night, had to step over her body.

http://projectavalon.net/Shriya_Shah's_body.jpg

The documentary tries to portray her as a kind of determined everyman heroine, pressing on past every discouragement and obstacle to achieve a magical goal. Russell Brice, who was interviewed well, and who is a good man, was careful not to say anything unkind.

But it was a suicide trip from the start. There's no honor in that.

It was simply stupid. And one of the problems is that with diminishing oxygen at very high altitude, one becomes stupid as one's brain simply ceases to function properly. An experienced climber, with logic in reserve, will know that. She had no clue. And it's clear from the film that her trekking company had little clue either. It's a salutary tale, and it's told really very well.

:flower:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEcHBFs-qME

[Innocent Warrior]

Duration: 14:13

yU2kANHyF1w

[Forest Denizen]

She died 7 hours later. In the cold and dark at 10 pm, with her oxygen long since depleted, on the equally grueling and arduous way down. Other climbers on the way up, also climbing at night, had to step over her body.
http://projectavalon.net/Shriya_Shah's_body.jpg

Tragic! Hubris :(
I've read of elite climbers deciding, within mere meters of the summit, to turn around and descend upon realizing that they were running too far behind schedule. I believe far more people have died during the descent than have died on the way up. I'm sure Bill would know much more than I about the subject.

:flower::flower::flower:

[Bill Ryan]

I believe far more people have died during the descent than have died on the way up. I'm sure Bill would know much more than I about the subject.
Yes, on Everest, it's almost always the descent that kills. Even experienced climbers sometimes don't factor that in their calculations (or their sense of reserves of internal energy and motivation). All that can get scrambled by oxygen deprivation. One can simply stop thinking clearly.

Once at the summit of Everest, it's almost as much physical work, and even more stress on one's exhausted, depleted, oxygen-deprived body, to get down again. It's like once at the summit, no matter how tough it was to get there, the job's only half done. One can't just relax and think it's all over now. That can be literally fatal.

(This applies on every mountain, not just Everest. FAR more accidents, caused by tiredness or carelessness, happen on the way down.)

I climbed Everest once, in a previous lifetime. So yes, in a strange way, I do know quite a lot about it, and have (of course) been fascinated by Everest since I was a kid, as well as having recurring dreams about it. (I reached the summit at 4.30 pm, from the North side, far too late to be safe in any way, and died at night after an accident on the freezing, never-ending descent.)

[Pam]

There have been several videos posted on this thread, but this one might be one of the best. In just over 40 minutes, it tells the story of a young Nepalese-Canadian woman, Shriya Shah, who suddenly told her friends and family one day that she was going to climb Mount Everest.

She'd never climbed a mountain before. She didn't know a thing about it. Everyone tried to dissuade her. But she was known for her determination.

And, watching the film, ego clearly played its part. This is her promotional poster, photoshopped at home in Canada. She'd never been on snow apart from walking Toronto winter streets.

http://projectavalon.net/Shriya_Shah_sm.jpg

She picked a small hole-on-the-wall trekking company with no experience on the mountain, who no-one else on Everest had ever heard of. After her first major error of believing that she could actually do this, that was her second mistake.

When she got to base camp, it was evident that she was extremely slow. At one point, her lead Sherpa told her sister in Katmandu that she would surely die and also kill everyone else who was with her. But she still would not be dissuaded.

Meanwhile, Russell Bruce, the leader with by far the most experience on the mountain, had canceled his own expedition as the conditions were too unfavorable. His clients had all paid over $50,000 to get to the summit. There were no refunds. He simply made the responsible call. That's what leaders have to do.

Here's how the story ends.

Remarkably, Shriya struggled slowly, at a snail's pace, to the very top. She arrived there, late, at 2.30 pm (1.30 is usually regarded as the very latest safe turnaround time), and then dallied on the summit for a further half an hour.

She started back down at 3 pm, dangerously late, and with little oxygen left, her fate was already sealed.

When making the determining, committing, defining decision to climb a mountain, any experienced climber knows you have to make the equally determining, committing, defining decision to get back down again safely. She didn't know that, and no-one had told her.

She died 7 hours later. In the cold and dark at 10 pm, with her oxygen long since depleted, on the equally grueling and arduous way down. Other climbers on the way up, also climbing at night, had to step over her body.

http://projectavalon.net/Shriya_Shah's_body.jpg

The documentary tries to portray her as a kind of determined everyman heroine, pressing on past every discouragement and obstacle to achieve a magical goal. Russell Brice, who was interviewed well, and who is a good man, was careful not to say anything unkind.

But it was a suicide trip from the start. There's no honor in that.

It was simply stupid. And one of the problems is that with diminishing oxygen at very high altitude, one becomes stupid as one's brain simply ceases to function properly. An experienced climber, with logic in reserve, will know that. She had no clue. And it's clear from the film that her trekking company had little clue either. It's a salutary tale, and it's told really very well.

:flower:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEcHBFs-qME


This really was a nicely done documentary. I go between admiring her fortitude to wondering why she was in such a hurry to do this? She was young enough to do training and at least learn the basics.She probably had to use a small operation that would be swayed by the money because no one else would take the risk. She didn't seem to care if other lives were placed in increased jeopardy for the bragging rights of completing the climb( as evidenced by the huge poster of herself outside the tent)..

[Bill Ryan]

There have been several videos posted on this thread, but this one might be one of the best. In just over 40 minutes, it tells the story of a young Nepalese-Canadian woman, Shriya Shah, who suddenly told her friends and family one day that she was going to climb Mount Everest.

She'd never climbed a mountain before. She didn't know a thing about it. Everyone tried to dissuade her. But she was known for her determination.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QEcHBFs-qME

This really was a nicely done documentary. I go between admiring her fortitude to wondering why she was in such a hurry to do this? She was young enough to do training and at least learn the basics.She probably had to use a small operation that would be swayed by the money because no one else would take the risk. She didn't seem to care if other lives were placed in increased jeopardy for the bragging rights of completing the climb( as evidenced by the huge poster of herself outside the tent)..

The video comments are really quite interesting to read. Many of them make very astute points — including a few commenters who'd climbed Everest themselves. There's absolutely no way she should have been on the mountain. But there was nothing in place to stop her.

There are a number of issues/questions here.


The Nepalese government (and Nepal is almost a failed state) is desperate for every dollar they can get. So they're not going to regulate anything any time soon.



Some of the potential regulation should be of the trekking/ expedition companies themselves. Anyone can start one, borrow a tent, find a cook, and say they're an expedition specialist. Some of these outfits are (or can be) almost criminally incompetent, with no experience on the mountain and using Sherpas who may mean well personally (most Sherpas are extremely nice people), but just don't have the ability or experience themselves.



Many Sherpas are culturally mild and non-confrontational. They may say something to a client, but if the client protests, they tend to back down and go along with them. It's only the most experienced expedition Sherpas who'd say to a wealthy western client, forcefully if necessary: "NO. We're going down NOW. Or you'll DIE."



The huge logjams on the mountain are just one new safety hazard. Below is a composite photo of climbers all ascending from (I believe) Camp 3. Everyone is clipped to ONE ROPE, which they're using to partially haul themselves up the steep slope, though they're all taking their own steps in the snow as well.



If that rope breaks, for instance from a rock or ice fall (even a small sharp falling object would slice the rope like butter), or if the anchor at the top becomes detached, they're all gone. Every one of them, like a long line of dominoes. One day, this will happen.



And if someone like Shriya Shah is near the front/top of the long ascent line (and she might well be, starting early because she's slow), then no-one else can overtake her. One can always unclip from the fixed rope and climb solo up the slope (and fast, experienced climbers sometimes do this), but then that means they're theoretically unprotected themselves.


http://projectavalon.net/traffic_jam_on_Everest.jpg

Regulation HAS to be the answer. Here's what I'd recommend. (And many others have — except that the Nepalese authorities aren't listening and don't even appear to understand.)


The most successful half dozen expedition companies — with a track record of safety, years on the mountain, and successful ascents — would form a committee to vet new, startup expedition companies, with the approval of the Nepalese government.



That same committee would vet ALL clients who apply (with anyone) to climb. They'd have to be proven mountaineers with a strong record of experience on lower mountains. Those criteria should be stringent. I might not even make that cut myself.



To compensate for reduced income, the permit fees per client should be MUCH more. They should be a fixed $30,000 per client, going directly to the Nepalese authorities. Maybe more than that. That's before they even start paying the expedition company. The Nepalese income stays the same, with half the number of people on the mountain.



Sherpa pay should be increased (though that's a potential problem, as inexperienced Sherpas might be attracted just because of the high income) — OR, $$ should be put aside to a foundation to support the families of Sherpas who have died on the mountain or become injured (e.g. through frostbitten fingers and toes) to the extent that they can't do this work any more.

[Bill Ryan]

Here's another photo of the ascent line from Camp 3.

http://gurlamandatatrekking.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Everest-camp-3.jpg

And this is the famous Hillary Step, just below the summit. (Here, climbers are trying to get up AND down on the same rope, with zero room to manoever.)

https://www.alessandrogogna.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/PesteEverest.jpg

This is madness.

Why ANYONE would ever want to be there among all the crowds, putting their lives at risk while engaged in a totally unpleasant experience — when there are SO many other gorgeous, genuinely remote, wilderness places to visit, all over the world — is utterly beyond me.

~~~

Another of the problems is that the weather forecasts are so accurate now, and every expedition has satcom so that weather updates are received instantly. That means that when a weather window (a good clear day or two) opens up, EVERYONE starts up the mountain all at once.

In previous years (or decades), everyone made their own best weather guess, and so all the summit attempts tended to be a lot more spread out. Paradoxically, of course, because hundreds of people are all trying to get to the summit on the same day, despite the clear weather that makes things all the more dangerous for everyone.

[kudzy]

As a backpacker and hiker myself, I'm really enjoying this thread. I'm by no means an experienced mountaineer but I've done a few 14,000 footers in my day. And I've bagged a number of significantly less risky peaks. Life begins above treeline.:bigsmile:

The immensity of Everest is just staggering. I agree with Bill. Why anyone would want to do that peak when there are so many less crowded gorgeous peaks all around the world is beyond me. Unfortunately an unchecked ego is a very dangerous thing. Personally I would never want to put others in such danger for my own satisfaction.

Here's another documentary that folks might enjoy; Meru (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meru_(film)). It's directed by Jimmy Chin the same guy that did Free Solo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Solo) about Alex Honnold's free solo climb of El Capitan. Both are excellent films. Meru is on Netflix.

As a side note, I'm planning on thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_Trail) next year. That's over 2000 miles! Perhaps I'll start a thread just just to document the trip. I won't be using any Sherpas. :ROFL:

I thought I read somewhere that the elevation of Everest actually changed after the 2015 earthquake, does anyone know if that is true?

Happy trails, be safe.

[Pam]

Here's another photo of the ascent line from Camp 3.

http://gurlamandatatrekking.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Everest-camp-3.jpg

And this is the famous Hillary Step, just below the summit. (Here, climbers are trying to get up AND down on the same rope, with zero room to manoever.)

https://www.alessandrogogna.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/PesteEverest.jpg

This is madness.

Why ANYONE would ever want to be there among all the crowds, putting their lives at risk while engaged in a totally unpleasant experience — when there are SO many other gorgeous, genuinely remote, wilderness places to visit, all over the world — is utterly beyond me.

~~~

Another of the problems is that the weather forecasts are so accurate now, and every expedition has satcom so that weather updates are received instantly. That means that when a weather window (a good clear day or two) opens up, EVERYONE starts up the mountain all at once.

In previous years (or decades), everyone made their own best weather guess, and so all the summit attempts tended to be a lot more spread out. Paradoxically, of course, because hundreds of people are all trying to get to the summit on the same day, despite the clear weather that makes things all the more dangerous for everyone.

Personally, I would find that a revolting experience. I look at the line of people and it seems grotesque, another inversion in this world. I believe the reason why someone would choose this experience over other options is simply the universal bragging rights, in other words the ego.Would they get the same respect for climbing lesser known climbs, even though they required more skill and resourcefulness? Imagine the climbs and experiences one could have with the kind of money they spent on this one climb. The other factor seems to be that this is all figured out for them, every detail. Once again that seems the antithesis of what I believe a true mountaineer would relish.. having said that, I am not a mountaineer and only read of their experiences with a great amount of respect and awe.

Your ideas for improving this condition seem very sound.

[Pam]

As a backpacker and hiker myself, I'm really enjoying this thread. I'm by no means an experienced mountaineer but I've done a few 14,000 footers in my day. And I've bagged a number of significantly less risky peaks. Life begins above treeline.:bigsmile:

The immensity of Everest is just staggering. I agree with Bill. Why anyone would want to do that peak when there are so many less crowded gorgeous peaks all around the world is beyond me. Unfortunately an unchecked ego is a very dangerous thing. Personally I would never want to put others in such danger for my own satisfaction.

Here's another documentary that folks might enjoy; Meru (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meru_(film)). It's directed by Jimmy Chin the same guy that did Free Solo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Solo) about Alex Honnold's free solo climb of El Capitan. Both are excellent films. Meru is on Netflix.

As a side note, I'm planning on thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_Trail) next year. That's over 2000 miles! Perhaps I'll start a thread just just to document the trip. I won't be using any Sherpas. :ROFL:

I thought I read somewhere that the elevation of Everest actually changed after the 2015 earthquake, does anyone know if that is true?

Happy trails, be safe.

Hey kudzy, I love to hike as well and the Appalachian trail experience is a dream of mine. I love the idea of you creating a thread when you go for us to follow you!!!!! I loved the documentary, Meru. I guess I am sort of a mountaineer voyeur or a groupie if you will.

[Bill Ryan]

Personally, I would find that a revolting experience. I look at the line of people and it seems grotesque, another inversion in this world. I believe the reason why someone would choose this experience over other options is simply the universal bragging rights, in other words the ego.Would they get the same respect for climbing lesser known climbs, even though they required more skill and resourcefulness? Imagine the climbs and experiences one could have with the kind of money they spent on this one climb. The other factor seems to be that this is all figured out for them, every detail. Once again that seems the antithesis of what I believe a true mountaineer would relish.. having said that, I am not a mountaineer and only read of their experiences with a great amount of respect and awe.

Yes, it's a kind of abomination of everything mountaineering is supposed to stand for. All the inversion involved (a good word to use!) is another form of archontic infestation.... really. No-one in the early 1920s expeditions would be able to believe any of this. It would seem like a grotesque, nightmarish, impossibility to them.

Bragging rights, for sure. But if you're a real mountaineer and want to wear a badge of honor, go climb K2, the second highest mountain in the world. It's 750 feet lower, but far steeper, harder and much more dangerous. Sherpas play a role, but a much lesser one, and there's no way any inexperienced person could get anywhere near the top.

K2 is a real mountain. Here it is below. And unsurprisingly, there are no traffic jams. :)

https://www.lrt.lt/mimages/News/images/230284/1000/563/size16x9

[Pam]

Personally, I would find that a revolting experience. I look at the line of people and it seems grotesque, another inversion in this world. I believe the reason why someone would choose this experience over other options is simply the universal bragging rights, in other words the ego.Would they get the same respect for climbing lesser known climbs, even though they required more skill and resourcefulness? Imagine the climbs and experiences one could have with the kind of money they spent on this one climb. The other factor seems to be that this is all figured out for them, every detail. Once again that seems the antithesis of what I believe a true mountaineer would relish.. having said that, I am not a mountaineer and only read of their experiences with a great amount of respect and awe.

Yes, it's a kind of abomination of everything mountaineering is supposed to stand for. All the inversion involved (a good word to use!) is another form of archontic infestation.... really. No-one in the early 1920s expeditions would be able to believe any of this. It would seem like a grotesque, nightmarish, impossibility to them.

Bragging rights, for sure. But if you're a real mountaineer and want to wear a badge of honor, go climb K2, the second highest mountain in the world. It's 750 feet lower, but far steeper, harder and much more dangerous. Sherpas play a role, but a much lesser one, and there's no way any inexperienced person could get anywhere near the top.

K2 is a real mountain. Here it is below. And unsurprisingly, there are no traffic jams. :)

https://www.lrt.lt/mimages/News/images/230284/1000/563/size16x9

I look at K2 and get a shiver down my spine at it's beauty and grandeur. To think a human so small in comparison can climb this by using intent, will, resourcefulness, skill, fitness and courage is just to amazing to me, I never loose the wonder... The other thing I so admire about mountaineers is their intense loyalty to their fellow mountaineers.

It's interesting that you use the words "archontic infestation" which seems seems so accurate. I look at Everest and it makes me really sad, like she is being raped or abused and then demeaned after the fact. Defying and cheapening the natural beauty of the mountain and monetizing and commercializing and basically dumbing down one of mans greatest accomplishments (mountaineering) seems like something that would fit into their goals.

I would be embarrassed and ashamed for mountaineers of the past to see what is happening on Everest, it's just one of the embarrassed and ashamed moments I would have for some of the things happening right now.

[onawah]

Real life X-men: Biology of the world's greatest climbers - the Sherpa

Medlife Crisis
Published on May 15, 2018
"Forget Xavier's School for the Gifted - marvel instead at the real life superheroes on the roof of the world.
For years anecdotes circulated amongst climbers, of the superhuman ability of the Sherpa to function at high altitude, when all others succumbed to mountain sickness - or worse. Now science has shown how they have evolved to live in one of the most inhospitable environments on Earth.
Thousands of years living in the thin air of the Himalayan plateau has given the Sherpa biology that differs from lowlanders from the very cellular level."
zXHgbUjPhOU

[onawah]

Miracle on Everest (2008)
(A bit off topic, but interesting...One of the comments on the youtube page: "
Brandon Nakagaki
3 years ago
If people watch the whole video, those who preach rescue should notice that THREE sherpas attempted to bring Lincoln down from the summit, but were unable to get him down after nineteen hours of struggle, and running out of oxygen and nearly perishing themselves.
It's honorable to try and help people, but it's terribly foolish, and you'll end up as another death on Everest; another statistic in some report on a news channel for a day, and then forgotten. ")

dim edin
Published on Jun 9, 2014
"2006 was one of the most deadly Everest seasons on record. Record numbers of climbers took advantage of clear weather and attempted to reach the summit. Among their number was Lincoln Hall, an experienced climber who had failed to reach the peak 22 years earlier. This time, Hall made it to the top, but shortly afterwards began to behave irrationally, and collapsed. He was declared dead, his family was informed and the news hit the headlines. But later that night, something happened which scientists cannot explain. Hall was found alive, sitting cross legged on the mountainside. With never before seen footage, exclusive interviews and amazing reconstruction, Miracle on Everest is one of the great survival stories."
IrHE35DL2Lo

[Pam]

Real life X-men: Biology of the world's greatest climbers - the Sherpa

Medlife Crisis
Published on May 15, 2018
"Forget Xavier's School for the Gifted - marvel instead at the real life superheroes on the roof of the world.
For years anecdotes circulated amongst climbers, of the superhuman ability of the Sherpa to function at high altitude, when all others succumbed to mountain sickness - or worse. Now science has shown how they have evolved to live in one of the most inhospitable environments on Earth.
Thousands of years living in the thin air of the Himalayan plateau has given the Sherpa biology that differs from lowlanders from the very cellular level."
zXHgbUjPhOU


I found this really, really interesting the way the Sherpas have lower levels of Hematocrit and concentrations of mitochondria but are able to to utilize oxygen differently by using carbs rather than fat and actually need less oxygen. The presenter loses me at the end when he states that all the evidence in the video is absolute confirmation of evolution. I see it as as absolute confirmation of the incredible ability of life forms to adapt.

[Pam]

Miracle on Everest (2008)
(A bit off topic, but interesting...One of the comments on the youtube page: "
Brandon Nakagaki
3 years ago
If people watch the whole video, those who preach rescue should notice that THREE sherpas attempted to bring Lincoln down from the summit, but were unable to get him down after nineteen hours of struggle, and running out of oxygen and nearly perishing themselves.
It's honorable to try and help people, but it's terribly foolish, and you'll end up as another death on Everest; another statistic in some report on a news channel for a day, and then forgotten. ")

dim edin
Published on Jun 9, 2014
"2006 was one of the most deadly Everest seasons on record. Record numbers of climbers took advantage of clear weather and attempted to reach the summit. Among their number was Lincoln Hall, an experienced climber who had failed to reach the peak 22 years earlier. This time, Hall made it to the top, but shortly afterwards began to behave irrationally, and collapsed. He was declared dead, his family was informed and the news hit the headlines. But later that night, something happened which scientists cannot explain. Hall was found alive, sitting cross legged on the mountainside. With never before seen footage, exclusive interviews and amazing reconstruction, Miracle on Everest is one of the great survival stories."
IrHE35DL2Lo

I watched this and read about it. Those Sherpa's went above and beyond what should have been expected of them to try to get someone that has turned alternately combative and lethargic down the mountain. It's like any high risk activity, there is a significant possibility that you can get injured or killed. Why should the Sherpa's be expected to loose their lives if it isn't probable that someone can be saved. I felt like what they attempted to do for him was really heroic.

[pueblo]

I found this an interesting documentary, it's about an expedition of Sherpa climbers who want to try and clean up the rubbish left in the Dead Zone and also recover the body of Swiss climber Gianni Goltz.

The Sherpas see the mountain as a living goddess and so this mission has a spiritual aspect to it. What really amazed me was the sheer volume of exposed human body parts just lying around in the camps, not to mention the obscene amount of rubbish and human excrement left to pollute the mountain and it's waters.

mDmSwz9yU48

[Bill Ryan]

I found this an interesting documentary, it's about an expedition of Sherpa climbers who want to try and clean up the rubbish left in the Dead Zone and also recover the body of Swiss climber Gianni Goltz.

The Sherpas see the mountain as a living goddess and so this mission has a spiritual aspect to it. What really amazed me was the sheer volume of exposed human body parts just lying around in the camps, not to mention the obscene amount of rubbish and human excrement left to pollute the mountain and it's waters.

mDmSwz9yU48

Yes, many thanks... this thread isn't really about mountaineering (though part of it kind of has to be!), but it's really about the vast gulf in attitudes and values between the largely ego-driven and personally ambitious 'western' climbers, and the gentle, native Sherpa peoples who actually live right there.

The traditional, age-old name for Mt Everest is Chomolungma (Tibetan) or Sagamartha (Nepalese), which means Goddess Earth-Mother of the Snows. (Or, in other translations, Goddess Mother of the World.)

And what a very beautiful name. If only our culture could ever think like that. :)

Back in 2013, there was a much-publicized fight (a real one) between a large group of Sherpas and a couple of high-profile, elite European climbers (Ueli Steck and Simone Moro). It seems to have started accidentally, when the Sherpas were fixing ropes to the mountain — one of their traditional and essential support tasks, a really important one for their clients. The two Europeans climbed past them, despite having been asked to please steer well clear, and accidentally dislodged some ice that fell on to the Sherpas. One of them was slightly injured in his face.

No real damage was done, but the Sherpas were pretty pissed, because it could have been truly dangerous. The two climbers offered to help them do their job, in genuine atonement, but then something else went wrong — what exactly, is a little unclear — and at one point one of the Sherpas was called a mother****er.

That was the last straw, as it directly insulted the Mountain Goddess (and him!) in serious ways that are hard to imagine.

The full account, and I'd suspect an honest and accurate one (it came from a Sherpa who was right there in the middle of all this, translated from the Nepalese), is here. Interesting stuff. The European climbers tried to play it down when they were interviewed, but I do think the Sherpa's account can be fully trusted. The fight was a serious one, in which the Europeans might even have been killed when the enraged Sherpas attacked them in their tents after the triggering incident.


https://outsideonline.com/1929351/everest-brawl-sherpas-tale

[Bill Ryan]

A little more from the very interesting Sherpa mountain clean-up documentary posted just above.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mDmSwz9yU48

At 9.33, the narrator states that the Sherpas' strength is legendary, and some have even been known to carry a load of 200 lbs. I do believe that. Here's a still shot from the film (9:44) showing a Sherpa carrying a client on his back in a basket.

http://projectavalon.net/Sherpa_carrying_a_person.jpg

I went on an expedition to Makalu many years ago (the fifth highest mountain, in a much more remote region of eastern Nepal), and we paid the Sherpas $5 a day to carry a 60 lb load. That sounds like a pittance, but at the time it was actually an extremely good daily wage for those folks, and they were truly appreciative.

One or two of them offered to carry 120 lbs for double pay, which of course was fine. It was what they asked to do.

And some of them didn't even have shoes. They didn't need or want them, because the soles of their feet were already like inch-thick boot leather. The feet I saw were even more thick and cracked than these, which is a recent photo I found on the net that shows the idea.

https://whoyoucallingaskeptic.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/barefoot-sherpa21.jpg

The Sherpas we were with were wonderful people, with a great sense of humor: gentle, kind, and extraordinarily hard-working. We ate with them round the campfire, and greatly enjoyed listening to their stories. (The Yeti was totally real to them: they talked about the thing quite casually, like Native Americans talking about grizzly bears. :) )

Here's yours truly — sunburned and barely identifiable! — with one of the team. It's one of my very favorite photos.

http://projectavalon.net/Bill_Ryan_Sherpa_Nepal_Makalu_expedition_Dec_1981.jpg


:focus:

[Agape]

I can imagine a way of safe descent for those who are not afraid to fly. Paragliding from the top of Mt Everest to Namche Bazar takes about 45 minutes according to these guys..
speaking of risks of thin air and extra weight of paraglide to carry ( perhaps save few for emergency rescues on the top), for those who are in acute danger of high altitude sickness or injured and number of people are required to drag them down over ice cravices and snow, flight down can be life saving operation. Providing the weather is good of course. To operate paraglide requires few lessons but quite fewer than high mounteneering with all the equipment.
Not saying it’s an option for everybody but it could save lives:sun:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cziUC1I3tSE

[Bill Ryan]

I can imagine a way of safe descent for those who are not afraid to fly. Paragliding from the top of Mt Everest to Namche Bazar takes about 45 minutes according to these guys..
speaking of risks of thin air and extra weight of paraglide to carry ( perhaps save few for emergency rescues on the top), for those who are in acute danger of high altitude sickness or injured and number of people are required to drag them down over ice cravices and snow, flight down can be life saving operation. Providing the weather is good of course. To operate paraglide requires few lessons but quite fewer than high mounteneering with all the equipment.
Not saying it’s an option for everybody but it could save lives :sun:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cziUC1I3tSE

Actually, what they did was crazy-risky. They may have had a 20-30% chance of surviving the flight, but managed to pull it off. The conditions must somehow have been 100% perfectly ideal.

I doubt if anyone else will be repeating that anytime soon... especially with a double glider, with one person semi-conscious and possibly delirious, unable to stand let alone run, in high winds and/or zero visibility. OMG.

(And btw: how Lakpa Tsheri, who'd never kayaked and couldn't swim, survived the Sun Kosi river, a dangerous Grade 5 that's killed experienced kayakers, is quite beyond me. :) )

For a little more than the same weight, another emergency option is an inflatable hyperbaric chamber. It's like a person-sized sealed balloon, that's inflated from oxygen bottles. The pressure inside is rapidly increased to that of a low altitude. For the person in it, it's the same as suddenly being teleported right off the mountain. It's been used very successfully at lower camps for people suffering from Cerebral or Pulmonary Edema, which can be fatal if the victim isn't brought down low, very fast.

:focus:

[Bill Ryan]

A little more from the very interesting Sherpa mountain clean-up documentary posted just above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?105204-Sherpas-on-Everest-the-real-mountaineers-who-make-it-all-possible&p=1262953&viewfull=1#post1262953).

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mDmSwz9yU48



And even more. The documentary is interesting on several counts.


It was made by Sherpas about Sherpas. They film what they're doing themselves, interview one another, and one gets a real sense of their friendship — and what they care about. There's barely a westerner in sight. (And I have to say, that's refreshing!)



It's long. But that means something, too: because on such a clean-up project as this, there's a LOT of grunt work. It's thankless, exhausting, and very unglamorous. They've taken on being high-altitude trash collectors. And that takes a lot of time. The fact that the movie goes quite slowly, and isn't that dramatic, is a perfect representation of what they're doing.



The entire thing is a microcosm of what we're ALL doing to ALL of Planet Earth. Very gradually, the Goddess is being trashed and abused — by humans with no spiritual awareness and absolutely no connection with nature.



One suspects that if there's any meaningful symbolism to what the Sherpas sincerely believe — that Mount Everest (Chomolungma) is a real deity that's being grossly disrespected... then she will in the end get her own back. Not out of spite: but to teach the arrogant, ambitious, egotistical, unthinking humans just a bit of a needed lesson.

[onawah]

Climb Everest in 3D

Namaste Nepal
Published on Jul 22, 2016
Climb Mt. Everest in 3D.

"Mount Everest, also known in Nepal as Sagarmāthā and in Tibet as Chomolungma, is Earth's highest mountain. It is located in the Mahalangur mountain range in Nepal and Tibet. Its peak is 8,848 metres (29,029 ft) above sea level. The international border between China (Tibet Autonomous Region) and Nepal runs across Everest's precise summit point. Its massif includes neighbouring peaks Lhotse, 8,516 m (27,940 ft); Nuptse, 7,855 m (25,771 ft) and Changtse, 7,580 m (24,870 ft).

In 1856, the Great Trigonometrical Survey of India established the first published height of Everest, then known as Peak XV, at 8,840 m (29,002 ft). The current official height of 8,848 m (29,029 ft) as recognised by China and Nepal was established by a 1955 Indian survey and subsequently confirmed by a Chinese survey in 1975. In 1865, Everest was given its official English name by the Royal Geographical Society upon a recommendation by Andrew Waugh, the British Surveyor General of India. As there appeared to be several different local names, Waugh chose to name the mountain after his predecessor in the post, Sir George Everest, despite George Everest's objections.

The Khumbu Icefall is an icefall located at the head of the Khumbu Glacier and the foot of the Western Cwm, which lies at an altitude of 5,486 metres (17,999 ft) on the Nepali slopes of Mount Everest, not far above Base Camp and southwest of the summit. The icefall is considered one of the most dangerous stages of the South Col route to Everest's summit. The Khumbu glacier that forms the icefall moves at such speed that large crevasses open with little warning, and the large towers of ice (called seracs) found at the icefall have been known to collapse suddenly. Huge blocks of ice tumble down the glacier from time to time, their size ranging from that of cars to large houses. It is estimated that the glacier advances 0.9 to 1.2 m (3 to 4 ft) down the mountain every day."
Qs answered
How many people have died on Mount Everest?
How many people have made it to the summit of Mount Everest?
How much money does it cost to climb Mount Everest?
How many camps are there on Mount Everest?

Ja5WUImILNY

[onawah]

The Complete Everest Basecamp Trek - Start to Finish
wwwcelticvideocom
Published on Mar 16, 2012
"The complete journey, starting in Lukla then on to Phakding , Namche Bazaar , Tengboche , Dingboche , Lobuche , Gorak Shep and then finally the base camp of Mount Everest."
FglIGVjd-8M

[onawah]

K2 expedition 2008, Triumph & Tragedy
Wilco van Rooijen
Published on Jan 30, 2013
"In the summer of 2008 an international expedition, led by expedition leader Wilco van Rooijen, climbed the 8611m high K2 in Pakistan, without supplementary oxygen. The descent witnessed one of the worst tragedies in recent climbing history.
For three days Wilco van Rooijen was reported missing; and outside world had all but given up hope of ever seeing him alive again. But he survived three days in the dead zone. The expedition paid a high prize, their beloved team member Ger McDonnell lost his life after trying to save other climbers life!"
KaHr1_5ujoM

Quest For K2 Savage Mountain
National Geographic Creative
Published on May 10, 2014
"Climbers from all over the world take on the challenge of K-2, the second highest mountain in the world after Everest.Explore K-2 right along with the famous team from Italy, who were the first to scale the mountain in 1954, and now, decades later, as hundreds are drawn to the K-2 challenge."
lxL_bzt7Pyo

[Bill Ryan]

Here's a fun fact. (And an astonishing one.)

One of the mountaineers who survived the 2008 K2 tragedy, in which 11 climbers died, was Norwegian Cecilie Skog. She was about to cross the 'bottleneck' in the dark, the only way down from the summit, but allowed her husband Rolf Bae to go first.

A serac fell on him, cutting the ropes, and he was swept to his death before her eyes. Shocked to the core, but unharmed, she climbed down in the dark, with no ropes, and made it safely to the high camp.

Here she is, a still shot from this excellent BBC documentary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzKHYHtPCIo) about the event. She doesn't look like a climber. (Whatever climbers are meant to look like! :) )

http://projectavalon.net/Cecilie_Skog_sm.jpg

She'd climbed Everest 4 years earlier. But despite the death of her husband, she continued adventuring.

Just over a year later, she did the first unassisted and unsupported crossing of Antarctica. With a companion, Ryan Waters, she took 70 days, from November 13, 2009 to January 21, 2010, to complete the 1800 km (1,100 miles) long journey from one side of Antarctica to the other.

Go tell that to the Flat Earthers. And wow, what a woman. (What a person.) Here she is, during her Antarctic crossing.

http://cecilieskog.com/wp-content/gallery/antarktis0910/antarktis0910-022.jpg

:focus:

[onawah]

I can understand why someone would be motivated to climb Everest or K2 for the skills challenge and the breathtaking beauty, but I can't help wonder why such a test of sheer, monotonous endurance would be appealing in such a flat, featureless, freezing environment as Antarctica.


Just over a year later, she did the first unassisted and unsupported crossing of Antarctica. With a companion, Ryan Waters, she took 70 days, from November 13, 2009 to January 21, 2010, to complete the 1800 km (1,100 miles) long journey from one side of Antarctica to the other.

[Bill Ryan]

Just over a year later, she did the first unassisted and unsupported crossing of Antarctica. With a companion, Ryan Waters, she took 70 days, from November 13, 2009 to January 21, 2010, to complete the 1800 km (1,100 miles) long journey from one side of Antarctica to the other.I can understand why someone would be motivated to climb Everest or K2 for the skills challenge and the breathtaking beauty, but I can't help wonder why such a test of sheer, monotonous endurance would be appealing in such a flat, featureless, freezing environment as Antarctica.


Actually, that's a really great question. Personally, I know I'd just absolutely love to do that. But I wonder if I can explain why!

I've done some long cross-country ski trips in the mountains (including a couple of times in Norway, but also in Scotland and the Alps), and I was far from bored. Just not for a single moment. It's an impeccable, pristine environment (like the desert: I spent three weeks crossing the Kalahari once), and it's exhilarating in a spacey kind of way. (Ocean sailing is the same — though with sailing, there's always something to do or to be done, and the environment at sea is far more changing and dynamic.)

With long-distance skiing, the continual rhythmical movement is like a kind of moving meditation. It's just a wonderful thing to do. Hard work, of course, and I'm sure one gets totally high on all the endorphins. :)

Here's a photo taken in Norway in 2004. I think, but I'm actually not quite sure, that one of the skiers is myself. I was with a group of half a dozen friends.

But, of course, I do understand that's still very different than just two people doing a semi-featureless Antarctic crossing for a couple of months. AND, no 300 lb equipment sled to pull, either. :)

http://projectavalon.net/Two_skiers%2C_Bill_in_Norway.jpg

[Rosemarie]

“ Adventure is worthwhile in itself” Amelia Earhart

[onawah]

Annapurna III – Unclimbed

David Lama
Published on Dec 21, 2017
“Annapurna III – Unclimbed” is an award-winning 12-min documentary featuring the 2016 expedition to the Himalayas of Nepal led by David Lama together with Austrian alpinists Hansjörg Auer and Alex Blümel. Join the team in their feelings of fatigue, anxiety, exposure and ordeal during their 5 weeks attempting one of the world’s greatest, unsolved puzzles of alpinism: The unclimbed south-east ridge of Annapurna III."
zp72WjMVhTQ

[onawah]

Ed Viesturs: The Will to Climb | Nat Geo Live
National Geographic
Published on Jun 25, 2012

"After surviving a terrifying avalanche, Ed Viesturs is the first American to summit all 14 of the world's highest mountains without supplemental oxygen."
WqTcD9Amfq4

[onawah]

Lunag Ri – David Lama & Conrad Anker walk the line
David Lama
Published on Jul 29, 2018
( It says in the comment section on the youtube page that Lama finally succeeded in reaching the summit, solo, a couple of months ago.)
"Already in 2016, David Lama and Conrad Anker had set out to climb Lunag Ri, a stunningly beautiful, unclimbed peak of 6.907meters on the borderline between Nepal and Tibet. As things didn’t go as planned the duo has to retreat just shy of the summit but returns one year later, determined to bring the project to an end. Despite prime conditions and all the knowledge gathered during their last attempt, their endeavor is stopped rapidly with Anker ’s life dangling between life and death, leaving Lama with some tough decisions to make."

Stream David Lama’s feature film “Cerro Torre-A Snowballs Chance in Hell” here https://www.redbull.tv/cerrotorre

KrQmiTui9yg

[Bill Ryan]

A staggering photograph taken just a couple of weeks ago. Here's the article:


https://theprint.in/opinion/trail-to-everest-is-littered-with-bodies-but-no-one-will-say-who-is-actually-responsible/244502

https://cdn-live.theprint.in/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/everest-wt-696x392.png

Trail to Everest is littered with bodies. But no one will say who is actually responsible

Neither the people stuck in 'traffic jam' at Mount Everest nor the travel firms bothered to look back and learn from the incidents of 2012.

2 June, 2019

Mount Everest is a great equaliser. It doesn’t care how deep your pockets are or which country you came from. One usually pays for a mistake with life here, as it happened recently during the “traffic jam’’ at the roof of the world. It was the second such mishap, if it can be called that, in the past seven years but in reality it was triggered by the same old deadly cocktail of unchecked greed, misplaced pride and lack of respect for the world’s highest peak.

Eleven people from India, United States, Nepal and England died (https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2019/may/29/eleven-dead-on-mt-everest-in-one-of-the-worst-seasons-on-record-video) during a single fortnight in May 2019. It was obvious neither the commercial mountaineering companies nor the Nepal Government had bothered to learn the lesson from the equally brutal tragedy in the spring of 2012, when 12 people had perished in the same region, on the same route and almost in the same fashion.

What is particularly galling is that neither the people stuck in the `traffic jam’ of 2019 nor the travel companies which brought them here bothered to look back and learn from the incidents of 2012 before arriving in Nepal. In this age of super-quick dissemination of information on digital highways, it turned out to be a deadly lapse. A few clicks of the mouse could have saved some lives.

(article continues (https://theprint.in/opinion/trail-to-everest-is-littered-with-bodies-but-no-one-will-say-who-is-actually-responsible/244502))

[Rosemarie]

This thread reminded me of my love for READING about mountain climbing. I guess it came about in my teens hearing my parents friends climbing Cotopaxi here in Ecuador. I got myself all the books there were out there ( you had to go to bookstores , no amazon.com remember ? ) about all the mountains and the different climbing expeditions.

Then one day in 1979 or 1980 I got a book called Everest by Reinhold Messner and read he had the first climb to Everest with Peter Habeler WITHOUT supplemental oxygen. I just kept that in the back of my mind.

A couple of weeks later my father invited me to have lunch with some foreigners ( americans and europeans ) businessmen friends of his in Quito. They are all in their fifties ( old men I thought ) and I was fresh out of college and we are sitting in this long table. The talk I do not know why it changes to mountain climbing in Ecuador and I told them what I had just read and silence .... everybody thinking I am crazy, nobody believed me , my father was even mad thinking I had it wrong. I was insistent what I was saying was true. It was before internet when we can google it immediately . So we went home ( I was fuming) to Guayaquil and I went directly to my bookshelve to prove what I was saying was true. My father was contrite.

Next year he went and climb Everest alone and without supplemental oxygen ( first person ever )
Sorry if this is off topic. I just remember this story. You remember him Bill ?

Edit:as always, spelling corrections.

[Bill Ryan]

This thread reminded me of my love for READING about mountain climbing. I guess it came about in my teens hearing my parents friends climbing Cotopaxi here in Ecuador. I got myself all the books there were out there ( you had to go to bookstores , no amazon.com remember ? ) about all the mountains and the different climbing expeditions.

Then one day in 1979 or 1980 I got a book called Everest by Reinhold Messner and read he had the first climb to Everest with Peter Habeler WITHOUT supplemental oxigen. I just kept that in the back of my mind.

A couple of weeks later my father invited me to have lunch with some foreigners ( americans and europeans ) businessmen friends of his in Quito. They are all in their fifties ( old men I thought ) and I was fresh out of college and we are sitting in this long table. The talk I do not know why it changes to mountain climbing in Ecuador and I told them what I had just read and silence .... everybody thinking I am crazy, nobody believed me , my father was even mad thinking I had it wrong. I was insistent what I was saying was true. It was before internet when we can google it immediately . So we went home ( I was fuming) to Guayaquil and I went directly to my bookshelve to prove what I was saying was true. My father was contrite.

Next year he went and climb Everest alone and without supplemental ocigen ( first person ever )
Sorry if this is off topic. I just remember this story. You remember him Bill ?

Yes, for sure. I followed all that very closely at the time. I was pretty sure Messner and Habeler could do it: they were the world's finest, and their physiology was exceptional. In the article below, though, Habeler's doubts (and fears) are well-described. It was Messner who powered them both through.

Messner returning to repeat the oxygen-free ascent solo was astonishing. But he was the best mountaineer the world has ever known.

That whole thing then became a little like Roger Bannister breaking the 4-minute mile. No-one thought it could be done: then he showed it could, and after the mental barrier of belief had fallen, many others were able to repeat the feat, which is now routine at the highest levels.

The same with Everest. The number of oxygen-free ascents of Everest now stands at a little under 200. It has to be said, though, that some of those have used drugs of various kinds to aid them. (In mountaineering, there's no dope-testing as in the Olympics.)

This article is very interesting:


https://nationalgeographic.com/adventure/adventure-blog/2016/04/21/how-climbing-everest-without-oxygen-can-go-very-wrong

It's Still a Big Deal To Climb Everest Without Oxygen

When Reinhold Messner and Peter Habeler trekked to Everest Base Camp in 1978, they were the only two people on Earth who believed they weren’t marching toward their own graves.

Their goal was to reach the summit of Everest without the use of supplemental oxygen canisters, a feat that remains rare today but was, in 1978, actually considered scientifically impossible.

Everest’s summit lies five miles above sea level at an altitude with effectively a third as much atmosphere due to lower air pressure. Doctors in the 1960s had studied the physiological demands of high-altitude climbing and determined that the atmosphere at Everest’s summit was so thin that it could only support a human at rest. They concluded that to even attempt such a feat would result in serious, irreversible brain damage (best case) or death.

Try for one minute to imagine yourself in 1978 in Messner’s situation—or any situation in which a group of scientists is pleading with you to not do what you want to do because you’re going to die just as surely as a Newton’s apple will hit the ground.

Messier and Habeler’s ascent of Everest in 1978 is the stuff of legends. At Camp 2, Habeler was heavily drugged up yet still couldn’t sleep. Fear poured from every inch of him—not to mention vomit and diarrhea from food poisoning courtesy of a tin of sardines. Habeler wanted to go down. Messner wanted to go up. Habeler was less worried about dying than returning home and being unable to recognize his family because his brain had been turned to porridge by the altitude, as all the doctors had warned.

Upon reaching the South Col, Messner and two Sherpa guides were caught in a storm with 125-mile-per-hour winds. For two days, the trio was trapped here. When the storm broke, they retreated and picked up Habeler on the way down to Base Camp.

Habeler was now totally convinced that the experts were right—climbing without oxygen is impossible. Messner, however, remained steadfast. After a few days recovering in Base Camp, he ultimately convinced Habeler to try again.

During their second attempt, Messner and Habeler succeeded—barely.

On their final day of climbing, they resorted to hand signals to communicate, so as not to waste any precious breath. They fell to their knees and lay in the snow like beaten dogs in an effort to catch their breaths. Habeler began hallucinating. Messner experienced a sensation of “bursting apart.” He later said that his mind was fully dead and only his soul was pushing him upward. With less than 80 vertical meters left to climb, they collapsed every ten feet and literally crawled to the highest point on Earth.

Later, writing about that moment of reaching Everest’s summit, Messner gave the world this gift of poetry: “In my state of spiritual abstraction, I no longer belong to myself and to my eyesight. I am nothing more than a single narrow gasping lung, floating over the mists and summits.”

Their ascent not only shook the climbing community but also the medical community, causing doctors to reevaluate what they thought they knew about the human body.

(article continues (https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/adventure-blog/2016/04/21/how-climbing-everest-without-oxygen-can-go-very-wrong/))

[Bill Ryan]

An opportunity to bump this (for me!) very interesting thread.

This is a UK Channel 4 documentary, very well done, about the death of an ambitious but inexperienced young man and what sure looks like a mixture of bad luck, bad decisions, incompetence and gross mismanagement by the guiding company, called OTT.

Unfortunately, this kind of Everest story has often been told, or claimed. I started out thinking this was just one more. I didn't know most of the names involved, so there wasn't that much immediate impetus to care. By the end of the film, I cared quite a lot. That's the hallmark of a good documentary.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwVYnD2X3vU

[onawah]

China extends its claim on the world's highest mountain peak Mt. Everest
64,544 views•May 10, 2020
WION
1.22M subscribers
"China has extended its claim on the world's highest mountain peak Mount Everest.."

Rh9KcHDEJHw

[Bill Ryan]

China extends its claim on the world's highest mountain peak Mt. Everest
64,544 views•May 10, 2020
WION
1.22M subscribers
"China has extended its claim on the world's highest mountain peak Mount Everest.."

Rh9KcHDEJHwThanks! That made me smile. It's a tiny storm in an even tinier teacup. :)

Every mountaineer knows that Everest lies smack on the naturally defined border. Teetering on the summit ridge, step down to the left a few feet and you're in Nepal. Step down to the right, and you're in China. The mountain belongs to both nations.

[onawah]

Yes, but that's what China is now contesting, according to the report.

The mountain belongs to both nations.

[Bill Ryan]

Please forgive us. We love you.
Goodbye. We are going to die.

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/interactive/2020/01/sport/russian-climbers-peak-lenin-spt-intl/media/images/04-img-lg.jpg

This is nothing to do with Sherpas, because there were none here. It's the story of many others, none of whom should be forgotten.

But maybe primarily a testimony to Elvira Shatayeva, a striking blonde Russian Master of Sport, with filmstar looks but the strongest female mountaineer in the world — and how she perished in a once-in-25-years hurricane at 23,000 feet, because she refused to leave her dying Russian teammates.

All this happened in 1974.

Click here for an ingeniously interactive web page that's more like a powerpoint presentation. Recommended... this is truly an aspect of the Human Condition.


https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2020/01/sport/russian-climbers-peak-lenin-spt-intl/

:flower:

[Bill Ryan]

Readers may find this post very interesting. :heart:

Elvira Shatayeva died, certainly the last one in her team to succumb, in a terrible storm just below the summit of Pik Lenin. As the team leader and the strongest climber, she was devoted to her friends, and even her own remarkable strength couldn't save her when she realized it was just too late.

Here she is again.

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/interactive/2020/01/sport/russian-climbers-peak-lenin-spt-intl/media/images/04-img-lg.jpg

So today, I was wondering who she'd reincarnated to become in her next new life here. I figured the following:


She'd be a woman once again, and probably, again, a very attractive one.
She'd certainly be a mountaineer, active in the Himalayas.
She'd again become a national figure known both for her femininity and her strength.
She'd encounter the same disaster situations — but calling on her experience, this time she'd ensure she survived.

So I wondered who she was. And suddenly, it hit me very strongly. She's Cecilie Skog.

I posted earlier on this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?105204-Sherpas-on-Everest-the-real-mountaineers-who-make-it-all-possible&p=1263735&viewfull=1#post1263735) about her role, and narrow escape, in the 2008 K2 disaster, when her husband died on the climb — but she survived.

Here's Cecilie, a Norwegian, and one of the country's national heroes. A year after the carnage on K2, she became the first, with an American colleague, to cross Antarctica with no aids of any kind. Blonde also, with filmstar looks once again, but her hair is wavy, not straight.

http://projectavalon.net/Cecilie_Skog_sm.jpg

But then I was immediately filled with doubt. OMG, it seemed so obvious. But I had absolutely no idea when Cecilie Skog was born. So I looked it up.


Cecilie was born on 9 August, 1974.
Elvira had died during the night of 7 August, 1974.

She had come straight back to continue.

:flower::flower:

[onawah]

Breathtaking: K2 - The World's Most Dangerous Mountain | Eddie Bauer
6/1/20
Eddie Bauer
17K subscribers

“K2 is a savage mountain that tries to kill you.” That is how climber George Bell described the infamous peak after the first American expedition in 1953–forever giving the mountain its nickname–The Savage Mountain. Sixty-six years later, Eddie Bauer mountain guides Adrian Ballinger and Carla Perez aim to summit the 8611-meter peak and join a community of explorers fewer in number than those who have been to outer space. Even more incredible, they both will attempt the feat without the use of supplemental oxygen. Every step of the way the team faces hazardous conditions, terrifying setbacks, and crushing misfortunes. But as Ballinger puts it, “I'll go until the mountain tells me I can’t go anymore.” "
cvFt2Xcuois

[Agape]

To whomever it concerns: please accept my humble condolences 🙏

It only reached my ears today that the senior lama of Khumbu, abbot of Tengboche Monastery , most venerable Jamyang Ngawang Tendzin Jangpo Rinpoche passed away at the age of 85 in Namche Baxar on October 9 this year.

Great spiritual father of the monastic and lay community, friend of pilgrims and travelers, born on the same day as the 14th Dalailama,
patron of the Himalayas, protector of nature and all living beings,

one whose continuous presence will remain written in people’s hearts

https://www.buddhistdoor.net/news/renowned-buddhist-lama-ngawang-tenzin-jangpo-rinpoche-dead-at-85

https://www.nepalitimes.com/here-now/tengboche-abbotts-last-wish/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF_1jLOe2d0


May his mind Rest In Peace 🙏🌟🙏

[pueblo]

Interesting Sherpa rescue story.

Turns out not everyone is as enthusiastic as you would have expected about showing gratitude to the person who saved your life.


1665369658265047040


1665370069092773891


1665372949250027523

[Bill Ryan]

Interesting Sherpa rescue story.
Turns out not everyone is as enthusiastic as you would have expected about showing gratitude to the person who saved your life.
Yes, many thanks. Climbing Everest with a commercial expedition company, costing maybe $40,000-$60,000, is barely mountaineering any more. It's merely a strenuous (and dangerous) ego-trip that sometimes brings out the very worst in people.

Here's a 60-second video of Gelje Sherpa, who is a devout Buddhist, carring this man on his back down Everest. He descended 600m (2000 ft), carrying him all the way, and it took him 6 hours. (Jeez.) The Malaysian climber's name has not been released.

Do watch this... it's hard to believe. The stricken climber must have weighted at least 160 lbs, maybe as much as 200 lbs with clothing and equipment.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGkRwpuaScA
And here's just one of many mainstream articles... the headline says it all. :muscle:


https://independent.co.uk/asia/south-asia/mt-everest-gelje-sherpa-rescue-climber-b2349376.html

Nepali sherpa praised for ‘almost impossible’ rescue of Malaysian climber in Everest’s ‘death zone

[Bill Ryan]

Bumping this thread with another story that's far more about commercialism and sponsorship than real mountaineering. In the climbing world, this is now attracting a lot of attention — and criticism.

This is Kristin Harila, a Norwegian athlete (a former cross-country skier), quite young (37) and highly photogenic, who was never a 'real' mountaineer. But she's now smashed Nirmal ('Nims') Purja's record by climbing all 14 peaks over 8000m in a span of just 92 days.

Her photo is all over the mainstream news and women's websites and videos, promoting what a remarkable heroine she is, an example of what women can do, and so on. The photos and articles are easy to find: they're everywhere.

https://www.dagbladet.no/images/75999477.jpg?imageId=75999477&panow=34.565857615894&panoh=8.7379975308642&panox=33.443708609272&panoy=31.851851851852&heightw=19.43241991342&heighth=23.436942122186&heightx=41.341991341991&heighty=30.707395498392&width=1200&height=630

Of course, she's a genuine athlete, and a remarkable one. Yours truly could never ever have done what she did. :P

But what very few mainstream news article show is this photo:

https://img-cdn.thepublive.com/fit-in/1280x960/filters:format(webp)/newsdrum-in/media/media_files/7xksUzuBibJwQeOJPkfO.jpg

On the right is Tenjen Sherpa, who did it all alongside her at the same time, and basically guided her, holding her hand all the way. She had complex and expensive logistical support, including helicopter transport from mountain to mountain, large teams of Sherpas fixing all the ropes in place for her (she's not a climber and couldn't have done any of that herself!), carrying all the supplies needed (including substantial amounts of supplemental oxygen), and more.

She has exceptional strength and stamina, and is also clearly a extremely nice and totally honest person. (She was 100% transparent about the way she accomplished it all.) But there's no way she could climb any sizeable mountain alone. She worked hard — extremely hard — but she was carried all the way.

But now she's a heroine, a showcased role model for women, and a global media celebrity. She'll be famous for the rest of her life. Tenjen Sherpa? Only specialist mountaineers, and his many friends in Nepal, will remember him.

Much of mountaineering now is all about the money. Tenjen himself wouldn't have done it if he'd not been well paid. Let's hope it was enough for him to take good care of his family and children for a little while.

:flower:

For those interested to know more, this is one of many excellent articles — not mainstream at all, but for specialist mountaineers.

Here are just a few extracts from the long and detailed report. Of course, I agree with all of it.

This is not personal against Kristin. She's just a product of her times.


https://explorersweb.com/kristin-harilas-speed-record-perspective (https://explorersweb.com/kristin-harilas-speed-record-perspective/)



Most critics focus on the logistics, the heavy support, the use of ropes which Harila herself has not fixed, and the helicopters to gain time in a sport that formerly reveled in long weeks immersed in the wilderness. That’s not adventure, some say. Others conclude that she wouldn’t be able to do anything in the mountains without her team.

“She's not an alpinist,” has been a common phrase. It’s true that Harila is not Wanda Rutkiewicz or Gerlinde Kaltenbrunner. She might not even know who these women were. But to be fair, she has never compared herself to mountaineering’s female pioneers.

Kristin Harila has become a symbol for the expansion of commercial mountaineering. New methods, goals, and styles have taken over our highest mountains. Harila is a target for those frustrated by the replacement of traditional mountaineering with experiential tourism.

[Bill Ryan]

Bumping this thread with another story that's far more about commercialism and sponsorship than real mountaineering. In the climbing world, this is now attracting a lot of attention — and criticism.

This is Kristin Harila, a Norwegian athlete (a former cross-country skier), quite young (37) and highly photogenic, who was never a 'real' mountaineer. But she's now smashed Nirmal ('Nims') Purja's record by climbing all 14 peaks over 8000m in a span of just 92 days.

Her photo is all over the mainstream news and women's websites and videos, promoting what a remarkable heroine she is, an example of what women can do, and so on. The photos and articles are easy to find: they're everywhere.

https://www.dagbladet.no/images/75999477.jpg?imageId=75999477&panow=34.565857615894&panoh=8.7379975308642&panox=33.443708609272&panoy=31.851851851852&heightw=19.43241991342&heighth=23.436942122186&heightx=41.341991341991&heighty=30.707395498392&width=1200&height=630
~~~

More on this story, which isn't going away.

Record-breaking mountaineer denies climbing over dying porter on K2

Kristin Harila has now been barraged with more criticism. We can't know whether the dying Pakistani porter (not technically a 'Sherpa', but doing the same job) could have been saved — maybe not. But the different responses of all those around him (a few valiantly tried their best to help, while 70 other climbers stepped over his dying body!) are a testimony to the rampant ego and competitiveness in much of modern commercial mountaineering.

:flower:

https://theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/10/record-speed-mountaineer-denies-climbing-over-dying-sherpa-on-k2
(https://theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/10/record-speed-mountaineer-denies-climbing-over-dying-sherpa-on-k2)
Fellow climbers say video footage shows Kristin Harila’s team walking over body of frostbitten man during record ascent

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/9dfc35d35d631faa6eb3246dc8da414b097d4ddb/0_67_1181_709/master/1181.jpg?width=700&dpr=2&s=none
Mohammed Hassan, seen lying prone on the ground, had fallen from a sheer ledge during the ascent.

A record-breaking mountaineer has denied allegations that her team climbed over a dying porter to reach the summit of K2 in Pakistan to become the world’s fastest climber to scale all peaks above 8,000 metres (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/27/kristin-harila-norwegian-claims-record-ascent-worlds-14-highest-mountains).

Kristin Harila climbed the world’s second highest mountain on 27 July along with her Nepali sherpa Tenjen (Lama) Sherpa, 35, to complete her 14th highest peak in just over three months to secure a new world record.

During the Norwegian’s ascent, porter Mohammed Hassan fell off a sheer edge at a height of about 8,200 metres. Harila, 37, has insisted her team did everything they could to save Hassan but conditions were too dangerous to move him.

Images have emerged of climbers clambering past Hassan on a ridge during Harila’s ascent.

Austrian climbing duo Wilhelm Steindl and Philip Flämig, who were also on K2 that day, said footage they later recorded using a drone showed climbers walking over his body instead of trying to rescue him.

Flämig told Austria’s Standard newspaper: “He is being treated by one person while everyone else is pushing towards the summit. The fact is that there was no organised rescue operation although there were sherpas and mountain guides on site who could have taken action.”

Steindl added: “Such a thing would be unthinkable in the Alps. He was treated like a second-class human being.

“If he had been a westerner, he would have been rescued immediately,” he added. “No one felt responsible for him. What happened there is a disgrace. A living human was left lying so that records could be set.”

Mountaineers clamber over injured Sherpa to set Everest record


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9pUCNnbZGk

[Bill Ryan]

More on this story, which isn't going away.

Record-breaking mountaineer denies climbing over dying porter on K2

Kristin Harila has now been barraged with more criticism. We can't know whether the dying Pakistani porter (not technically a 'Sherpa', but doing the same job) could have been saved — maybe not. But the different responses of all those around him (a few valiantly tried their best to help, while 70 other climbers stepped over his dying body!) are a testimony to the rampant ego and competitiveness in much of modern commercial mountaineering.

:flower:

https://theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/10/record-speed-mountaineer-denies-climbing-over-dying-sherpa-on-k2
(https://theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/10/record-speed-mountaineer-denies-climbing-over-dying-sherpa-on-k2)~~~

And more. This kind of thing is NOT uncommon in high-altitude mountaineering. There are literally dozens of stories of climbers stepping over dying colleagues on their way to the summit — usually of Everest. The ethics are complicated, because it's a fact that very often almost nothing can be done to help a dying climber in such a place.

But Joe Simpson, famous for his near-unbelievable role in the documentary film Touching the Void — in the Avalon Library here (https://avalonlibrary.net/Touching_the_Void_(2003).mp4), and highly, highly recommended :heart: — and who was extremely close to death himself, totally alone in a fully impossible situation, has written angrily (many times) that the least one might do is stay and hold the hand of a fellow human being as their life slipped away.

The story, while arguably unfortunately focused on Kristin Harila (who was just one of many climbers on the mountain that day, but who had chosen to make herself a celebrity), continues to reverberate. It's possible that this may do a great deal to focus on the extraordinary inequality between the Sherpas (or Pakistani porters, same thing), and the well-to-do, hand-held, wealthy western clients.

Mohammad Hassan, the man who died, was earning $5 a day carrying 25 kg loads to base camp. He had almost no high mountain experience, but was offered the chance to go high on the mountain, with poor equipment, for a 4x pay rise of $20 per day.

He did that solely to try to pay for his children's education, and for medical bills for his mother.

He died because he was trying to earn $20 a day.

Kristin Harila has done little except give media interviews. She's clearly quite upset. And she's also out of her depth. She's a nice person, but she's absolutely not a real mountaineer.

But the two experienced climbers who broke the story by posting drone footage of the incident on social media, Austrian Wilhelm Steindl and German Philip Flaemig, personally visited Hassan's family after the incident and also started a crowdfunding campaign. (Here it is: https://gofundme.com/f/3-kinder-brauchen-dringend-hilfe.)

After 4 days, donations have reached 127,243 euros, nearly $140,000. One woman, a name I don't recognize, donated 5,000 euros. (Kristin Harila donated 1,000 euros, now that she's famous and had commercial sponsors paying probably close to $1 million for her whole project. A churlish remark, but maybe she'll donate more.)

The local Pakistani authorities have opened an investigation, which in my awareness is a first in this kind of incident. It'll be interesting to see who they may find fault with, if they do at all. It feels like that might be a bit of a watershed.

But in the meantime, in the most Shakespearean, tragic way, Hassan's death has now provided more than everything needed for the education and medical care for his family that he had always earnestly wished for.

:heart:

[Bill Ryan]

I'd like to add an addendum to the above 3 posts, with something to remind us that not all humans are selfish and ego-driven. Last month, there was a second stricken climber, on Nanga Parbat, another huge mountain with a fearsome reputation.

Asif Bhatti of Pakistan (a climber, not a porter), was climbing solo but had become exhausted, frostbitten, and snowblind. He couldn't see a thing and was stranded high on the mountain alone, facing certain death.

But another climber, Israfil Ashurli of Azerbaijan (wiki page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israfil_Ashurly) here, and a well-known professional mountain guide), came to his rescue. He abandoned his own goal to reach the summit, and stuck with Asif — who was as blind as a bat and very weak — through thick and thin for three days and nights in appallingly bad weather.

Eventually, against all odds, he got him down to base camp, all on his own, sustaining bad frostbite himself in the process, also needing to be hospitalized.

To describe what he did as selfless and heroic doesn't even begin to describe it. He didn't know Asif at all — he was a stranger, not even speaking the same language — but he said that he had to do what he did. He never questioned it. Mountaineering can sometimes bring out the worst in people... but sometimes the very best.

This is Israfil Ashurli of Azerbaijan, the finest of men. :flower:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/%D0%90%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B0_2005.jpg/2560px-%D0%90%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B0_2005.jpg
(Photo by Israfil Ashurly, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=68349794)

[Bill Ryan]

More on this story, which isn't going away.

Record-breaking mountaineer denies climbing over dying porter on K2

Kristin Harila has now been barraged with more criticism. We can't know whether the dying Pakistani porter (not technically a 'Sherpa', but doing the same job) could have been saved — maybe not. But the different responses of all those around him (a few valiantly tried their best to help, while 70 other climbers stepped over his dying body!) are a testimony to the rampant ego and competitiveness in much of modern commercial mountaineering.

:flower:

https://theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/10/record-speed-mountaineer-denies-climbing-over-dying-sherpa-on-k2
(https://theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/10/record-speed-mountaineer-denies-climbing-over-dying-sherpa-on-k2)~~~

And more. This kind of thing is NOT uncommon in high-altitude mountaineering. There are literally dozens of stories of climbers stepping over dying colleagues on their way to the summit — usually of Everest. The ethics are complicated, because it's a fact that very often almost nothing can be done to help a dying climber in such a place.

But Joe Simpson, famous for his near-unbelievable role in the documentary film Touching the Void — in the Avalon Library here (https://avalonlibrary.net/Touching_the_Void_(2003).mp4), and highly, highly recommended :heart: — and who was extremely close to death himself, totally alone in a fully impossible situation, has written angrily (many times) that the least one might do is stay and hold the hand of a fellow human being as their life slipped away.

The story, while arguably unfortunately focused on Kristin Harila (who was just one of many climbers on the mountain that day, but who had chosen to make herself a celebrity), continues to reverberate. It's possible that this may do a great deal to focus on the extraordinary inequality between the Sherpas (or Pakistani porters, same thing), and the well-to-do, hand-held, wealthy western clients.

Mohammad Hassan, the man who died, was earning $5 a day carrying 25 kg loads to base camp. He had almost no high mountain experience, but was offered the chance to go high on the mountain, with poor equipment, for a 4x pay rise of $20 per day.

He did that solely to try to pay for his children's education, and for medical bills for his mother.

He died because he was trying to earn $20 a day.

Kristin Harila has done little except give media interviews. She's clearly quite upset. And she's also out of her depth. She's a nice person, but she's absolutely not a real mountaineer.

But the two experienced climbers who broke the story by posting drone footage of the incident on social media, Austrian Wilhelm Steindl and German Philip Flaemig, personally visited Hassan's family after the incident and also started a crowdfunding campaign. (Here it is: https://gofundme.com/f/3-kinder-brauchen-dringend-hilfe.)

After 4 days, donations have reached 127,243 euros, nearly $140,000. One woman, a name I don't recognize, donated 5,000 euros. (Kristin Harila donated 1,000 euros, now that she's famous and had commercial sponsors paying probably close to $1 million for her whole project. A churlish remark, but maybe she'll donate more.)

The local Pakistani authorities have opened an investigation, which in my awareness is a first in this kind of incident. It'll be interesting to see who they may find fault with, if they do at all. It feels like that might be a bit of a watershed.

But in the meantime, in the most Shakespearean, tragic way, Hassan's death has now provided more than everything needed for the education and medical care for his family that he had always earnestly wished for.

:heart:It's possible that a few readers here might remember this very tragic story. There's now been a most remarkable update.

I have to say, I'd never dreamed this could have been attempted. Bringing a body down from very high on K2, itself an immensely dangerous mountain, is a nearly impossible feat.


https://explorersweb.com/muhammad-hassans-body-brought-down-from-k2

Pakistanis Bring Muhammad Hassan’s Body Down From K2

Pakistani climbers have retrieved the body of Muhammad Hassan from above the Bottleneck on K2. Hassan died on the upper slopes last year (https://explorersweb.com/k2-last-three-hours-muhammad-hassans-life/), as dozens of climbers stepped over the Pakistani high altitude worker on their way to the summit.

Naila Kiani coordinated the retrieval as a humanitarian project during her cleanup expedition to K2. According to Kiani, Hassan’s family approached her for help in bringing down the man’s body. They took advantage of the weather window of the last few days and managed to lower it to Camp 4. Yesterday, they brought it all the way down to Advanced Base Camp.

From here, Kiani says they need the Pakistan Army’s support for a helicopter evacuation to prevent the body’s decomposition in the high temperatures. This helicopter flight back to Hassan’s village may already have occurred.

“Hassan’s death highlighted the need for better training, equipment, and ethical standards in mountaineering,” said Kiani. “This mission aims to give Hassan a respectful burial and showcase the skills and dedication of Pakistani high-altitude workers.”

In addition to Kiani, those involved in the retrieval were Dilawar Sadpara, Akbar Hussein Sadpara, Zakir Hussein Sadpara, Mohammed Murad Sadpara, Ali Mohammed Sadpara, Imran Ali, and Wali Ullah Fallahi.

[Moemers]

having stood at the foot of K2 I can attest to the shear improbability of that ever happening. astounding to be sure and thinking back to looking up at that Mountain i have chills reading that story

[Bill Ryan]

A moving tribute just published, which needed to be read by everyone in the mountaineering community, :heart:


https://explorersweb.com/here-is-nawang-sherpa-who-died-on-everest-out-of-loyalty

Here is Nawang Sherpa, Who Died on Everest Out of Loyalty

https://explorersweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/20230404_1001032-scaled-e1724166627991.jpg
Nawang Sherpa, dead on Everest on May 22, 2024

Nawang Sherpa died because he refused to abandon his ailing, befuddled client near the summit of Everest. Nawang received no recognition for his sacrifice.

Jon Mills, a UK climber on a different Everest team, contacted ExplorersWeb to share a story that had been haunting him since he returned from the summit. Mills and his sherpa guide, Furinji, were the last to see Nawang alive. He was staring into the void beside his client, Cheruiyot Kirui of Kenya.

For about two hours, Kirui — who stubbornly wanted to continue climbing no-O2, despite altitude sickness — had rejected the life-giving oxygen that Nawang begged him to use. Neither made it down alive. Yet Kirui’s body was recovered within hours, while Nawang’s remains were never found.

We couldn’t find a picture of Nawang or a line describing his previous climbs and life. On Everest, he worked for Seven Summit Treks, but the company did not mention him on its social media. In the story we posted about his demise (https://explorersweb.com/how-responsible-are-sherpas-for-the-lives-of-their-clients/), we asked readers to share any images or information about him.

We received an email a few days later with a photo attached.

“He was really a nice guy; it’s a true tragedy,” said Chris P, (https://www.instagram.com/chrisclimbs2022/) who asked us not to share his full name or nationality. “He was an amazing and understanding guide."

https://explorersweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/20230404_1001032-1-525x700.jpg

[Agape]

Recent news from the "sherpa village" close to the Mt Everest Base Camp are no less distressing:


Himalayan sherpa village hit by icy floods (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvg3pz2py7vo.amp)


Nepal as well as much of Northern India received extraordinary amount of rainwater during this monsoon season, on the ridges of crashing atmospheric fronts coming over from 3 respective sources, the Indian and the Arabian Seas pressed down by colder atmospheric wave from Northern Caucasus.
Record amounts of flash floods and cloudbursts damaging local housing, bursting dams along most Himalayan rivers, caused massive landslides and stone avalanches from mountain slopes.

Nepal has been hit by floods in last 2 weeks leaving lots of devastation and more than 200 people dead with more still found or being searched for.

3 nights ago we were approached by massive weather system covering most of the northern India that rained on most of the land simultaneously and while this may sound little omnious we think it may not be the end of it this year.

So not a great climbing season I guess as mountain roads are damaged

🙏🪔🪷

[Agape]

Cheruiyot Kirui on Mt Everest , who was he and how did he die

https://www.ultimatekilimanjaro.com/cheruiyot-kirui-on-everest-who-was-he-how-did-he-die/

Born on March 14 1984 in Nairobi, Kenya, Cheruiyot Kerui loved mountains and was extremely dedicated to his mountain climbing passion , from young age.

Holds record for summiting Mt Kenya (17057 ft/5199 m) 3 times in one day.

The first African attempting to summit Mt Everest without supplemental oxygen found his final resting place about 48 meters under the sumit of JomoLungma and well,
took Nawang Sherpa with him.


Peace to the deities 🙏

I think they should close the business.

[onawah]

Tashi Gyalzen Sherpa shatters record in incredible achievement
By Chris DeWeese
5/28/25
https://weather.com/sports-recreation/outdoors/news/2025-05-27-mount-everest-record-climber

https://s.w-x.co/util/image/w/nepal_9.jpg?crop=16:9&width=980&format=pjpg&auto=webp&quality=60

"Nepali climber Tashi Gyalzen Sherpa embraces his son upon his arrival at Tribhuvan International Airport in Kathmandu on May 27, 2025, after he made a record-breaking four summits of Everest in fifteen days.
(PRAKASH MATHEMA/AFP via Getty Images)

An astonishing world record was set earlier this month in Nepal after a climber named Tashi Gyalzen Sherpa climbed to the summit of Mount Everest a record-breaking four times in just fifteen days, accomplishing a feet of physical and mental endurance unparalleled in the history of mountaineering.

It would be difficult to overstate just how impressive Sherpa's feat was. Ascending 29,032 feet to the height of the towering mountain, where the oxygen is gaspingly thin and the weather perilously treacherous is, for many, the highlight of their climbing lives. To go up and down repeatedly, allowing one's body to adjust to the difference in oxygen at various levels, is almost incomprehensible. Yet the 29-year-old, who hails from a small Nepali town called Phortse, managed to achieve what seemed unachievable.

Tashi started working as a climbing guide in 2017. Two years later, in 2019, he ascended to Everest's summit for the first time. In the years since, he reached the peak four times: three from the Nepal side, and once from the Tibetan side. This year, things were different. His first ascent occurred on May 9, when he was part of a rope-fixing team laying the route for the 8K Expedition. After that, Tashi quickly went up a second time (in reflecting, he told reporters that the second climb was the easiest).

https://s.w-x.co/util/image/w/Everest10-1.jpg.jpg?crop=16:9&width=980&format=pjpg&auto=webp&quality=60

Finally, after ascending a third time while assisting a client, Tashi quickly scaled the mountain solo for his fourth climb. As he later recounted, "I made to the top of Everest along with my client. I brought him back safely to the Everest Base Camp and then immediately started for my fourth summit the same night. My fourth summit attempt started from Base Camp on 22 May with an aim to reach the summit on May 23, and I was alone during my final push to the summit. There were no fellow Sherpas along with me. I carried all the required oxygen and necessities. I started for the summit on 8:00 pm (local time) on 22 May from Camp IV.

Tashi's remarkable achievement comes during a time of many record-breaking feats on Everest. Last season, a climber named Dawa Phinjhok Sherpa achieved the summit three times in just eight days, and photojournalist Purnima Shrestha made headlines for achieving the summit three times during the season.

“Tashi represents a new generation of Sherpa climbers—guides, record-breakers, storytellers, and trailblazers,” says mountaineering expert Ang Tshiring Sherpa. “They are climbing in the era of technological advancement. The world is now connected through smart devices, which, among other things, has even made Everest climbs faster.” Nepal is home to eight of the world's 10 highest peaks and welcomes hundreds of climbers each spring, when temperatures are warmer and winds are typically calmer."

Senior writer Chris DeWeese edits Morning Brief, The Weather Channel’s newsletter.

[onawah]

Updraft Sends Paraglider To Nearly 30,000 Feet
May 30, 2025
Weather Channel

(This poor man is no Sherpa, but his paraglider accidentally took him to the same altitude as the top of Mt. Everest. It's a wonder he survived.)

Video here: https://weather.com/news/trending/video/paraglider-survives-after-flying-above-clouds

"A paraglider in northern China said he never planned to leave the ground but a surge of strong winds sent him dangerously high above the clouds over the Qilian Mountains. Watch this heart-stopping video to see what happened next and learn how he survived."

[onawah]

Mount Everest rescuers battle heavy snow with hundreds still stranded | BBC News
18.8M subscribers
Oct 6, 2025

"Hikers caught in a shock blizzard near Mount Everest have spoken of experiencing hypothermia as they battled relentless snowfall, while rescuers continue to evacuate scores of people.

All the stranded hikers have been contacted and another 350 have been led to safety by rescuers, according to Chinese state media

Heavy snow trapped hundreds of tourists trekking in the Tibetan valley leading to Mount Everest's eastern face over the weekend, as an eight-day national holiday began in China

The sudden bad weather has also hit Nepal, where torrential rain and flooding has killed at least 47 people since Friday."

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