Jesus’ path to enlightenment (ending reincarnation)

[Words of Joy]

Jesus’ path to enlightenment (end of reincarnation)

I was reading a thread that pueblo started about Gurdjeff’s 4th way (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104729-Gurdjieff-s-4th-way)
I had a lot of triggers and saw parallels with my experience and convictions, and felt urged to write them down. Understanding it would become corpulent and didn’t want to sidetrack the thread, I decided to start this thread.

Part I wanted to relate to is about enlightenment. Appreciating the information put forward by other members, I’d like to chip in my perspective and experience on the subject. This is going to be extensive but hope anyone truly interested will find time to read it. And I think for anyone that hasn’t been able to find the time to read/study the bible, this might be a (relatively) small effort opportunity to get a perspective. I’ll try to keep it simple.

I chopped up the article in a couple of chapters:
• Why would one want to be enlightened?
• For whom is the path
• How does Jesus describe the path?
• How does one pass “the gate”?
• What if one passed the gate?
• Personal experience Christian enlightenment

All below is Christian perspective (with verse references from New International Version(NIV) translations) with added personal experience, opinion and conviction, which I read/learned and was guided on by the holy Spirit, who is accompanying me noticeably and intensely for more than a year now.

I am aware of the diversity of opinions here on Avalon. I appreciate everyone’s perspective and am open for sharing thoughts. Every question is welcome, and I invite people to share their experiences regarding Christian enlightenment. Apologies for possible grammatical errors and typos.

Let’s start.
 
Why would one want to be enlightened?

Bible says:
John 3:16-17 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

1 John 5:20 20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

1 John 5:12 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Philippians 3:20 20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

John 10:28-30 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

John 18:36 36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

John 14:1-3 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

Romans 8:11 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

Revelation 3:21 21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Ephesians 1:5-10 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

Colossians 1:19-20 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Romans 8:1-4 1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Opinion/Experience/Conviction
I’ll try to go short.

Sin is a principal to every human. And this is where it gets technical. Basically one could think: ”I’m doing good things. Not doing any bad stuff. I’m giving my love/care to other people, therefore I’m without sin.”. And from a human perspective he/she could be right. (This example is seen as ‘thinking/living in the flesh’.) But, from a divine perspective there’s more nuance to it. From a divine perspective, not doing God’s will, is sin. And the wages of sin (from Gods perspective) is death (reincarnation). Why? Because humans are not able to reach a divine level to God’s standard by themselves or by their own reasoning, and therefore every person doing what doesn’t align with God’s divine plan is sinning from God’s perspective, as it is leading away from God’s ultimate intent: re-unite in the heavenly realms (aka ‘life’ from Christian perspective), where standard of loving is higher. And God wants us to become more loving from His perspective.

(God=He that is, The Creator of all: He spoke therefore we are. He is everywhere. He knows what goes on in the hearts and the minds of all. He is all knowing, all powerful and His loving is everlasting. We are in Him. There’s more that can be said, though I’ll leave it with this for now.)

God wants spirits to come back to him, so He provided the Laws for the people, according to Gods standard, to Moses. Though the people were unable to uphold all the laws. It was a burden. And death (reincarnation) was the result. Until Jesus came in. Through divine conception by the holy Spirit he was born. He was part of Gods plan to show the path to the people by example (John 14:6 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john+14%3A6&version=NIV)).

Part of this plan is to give people an option to have their sins justified through Jesus. And for that circumstance to be set, sacrificial blood was a necessity. Why blood? Here's some info that might help. (https://www.lookingforgod.com/questions-and-answers/category/77/question/1107/)
When Jesus was crucified, while being without sin through his divine conception, it was a holy/Heavenly sacrifice for all mankind. That’s why Jesus is also called the Lamb, which sacrifice was prophesized. (Psalm 40:6–8 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+40%3A6%E2%80%938&version=NIV)). His sacrifice made that we can accept Jesus as our savior. Savior from our sinful (from God’s perspective) nature, and therefore from death (reincarnation). Jesus set the example of conquering death (reincarnation) as he was without sin, and rose from the grave with his spiritual light body, which can (de-)materialize.

Romans 6:23 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

To make this part of Gods plan complete, the disciples were instructed for the spreading of the path-part of the plan in all directions, so people would know about it, and would be able to follow the example.

Thank you God, and thank you Jesus!

The above shows how the path is different from other spiritual philosophies. Though in principle the objective is the same: spiritual growth and trying to end the reincarnation cycle.

I’m not an expert on Buddhism(* see further below), Hinduism, Mysticism, Taos, though do know they have a common character. I’m currently going through a time of change and last night (14th of December) I had a dream about a spinning swastika. I knew the swastika was related to older cultures, before it was smeared during WOII, but I didn’t know exactly what it stands for. So I decided to ask in prayer if I should look it up. It was confirmed and I asked for guidance. I was guided to this website (https://www.seiyaku.com/customs/crosses/swastika.html) and from there to this page (https://lonerwolf.com/involution/). The information fell into place perfectly with my current personal situation. This was what our ancestors of different cultures were working towards and this is where I’ve been working to. So grateful to see the signs in my life. It strengthens my motivation and perseverance on my way. And in essence that’s what Christianity is also about. Though the Christian path has a higher goal regarding the level of love. A higher level of loving towards God and one another. This level of loving can’t be mastered merely by human effort. To achieve a level of loving that pleases God, Jesus requested God to send the divine Teacher, the Guide also known by these names. (https://www.gotquestions.org/names-Holy-Spirit.html) This is Gods next phase in His grand plan of lifting people up to the Heavenly realm.

Ephesians 1:17 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.

The holy Spirit will guide the person that is enlightened/saved from death(reincarnation) through Jesus Christ, to mastery. It will bring divine wisdom, truth, protection, direction, power, love, help, to name a few, to ensure transformation of the behavior of the child of God (which one is then called: Romans 8:14 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans+8%3A14&version=NIV)/ ) to holiness, if the person remains willing.

A word that I received some time ago was: Castigation. I received it early morning during prayer. Didn’t know what it meant exactly at that moment but looked it up: ‘Making pure’. That word shows the path. Being willing to purify oneself with the help of the holy Spirit to God’s standard. (This is seen as ‘thinking/living in the spirit’.)

(*side note: I obtained a bit of information regarding Buddhism and the path of enlightenment. I asked whether the path of Buddha also leads to enlightenment, which was confirmed. Also learned that this is an old path, as they don’t have the holy Spirit component. The same can be said for other spiritual philosophies. The path to enlightenment has always been there, though God, is His grace, made it easier through Jesus. That’s why John the Baptist was saying: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.” And Jesus said: “I will open my mouth in parables. I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.” and also “For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.”

Needs to be said that across all major world religions, including Christianity, there are a lot of tracks that don’t lead to enlightenment. The true Christian path to enlightenment is the easiest/most bearable one, as the holy Spirit is constantly helping.

And some people bump into enlightenment, without knowingly working towards it:
John 14:23 23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.)



 
For whom is the path?

John 7:37 37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink”

1 Corinthians 12:13 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

Romans 1:16 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

Opinion

Background is not of importance. There are no obstructions based on age/cultural or economic background/physical state/skin color. Anyone who wants it more than the world with all his/her heart, mind, body and soul, can enter the Kingdom of God.
 
How does Jesus describe the path? 


John 14:6 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 12:22-26 25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

Matthew 16:24 24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

Matthew 10:38 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

Matthew 7:13-14 13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

John 5:39-40 39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

John 8:12 12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

Opinion
It was part of God’s plan to provide Jesus to the people here on earth to show the way to the heavenly realm. Jesus set the example. One must follow the example if he/she wants to join the heavenly realm. That means not valuing the earthly life. Make a living sacrifice out of love for others and God’s great plan. Willing to learn the way by reading the scripture, praying, fasting, helping others carry their burdens in life, give love to God and people, being taught by the holy Spirit. And informing others about the good message, that Jesus was also bringing, namely that anyone willing can be saved from death (reincarnation) and God is real. And that the heavenly Father and your light body are awaiting you. Carrying the cross means that while walking down the path of enlightenment you are being confronted by the earthly influences in people, that are not enlightened and have an earthly focus. And when speaking the truth (not as they know it, though as you’ve learned through divine guidance), you might be misunderstood, ridiculed, obstructed or perhaps persecuted or killed, depending on location on this planet. This is an accepted part of the plan of God, as life is not here on earth.

Revelation 20:4 4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 
How does one pass “the gate”?

1 Timothy 2:5 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

Acts 4:11-12 11 Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’ 12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

Romans 10:9 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Luke 13:2-3 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Luke 9:24 4 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it.

Matthew 3:2&6 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.” … 6 Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.

1 Petrus 3:21-22 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

John 7:5-8 5 Jesus answered, “I assure you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, it’s not possible to enter God’s kingdom. 6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Don’t be surprised that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew.’

Acts 8:15-16 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Romans 12:1-2 1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.


Opinion/conviction/experience

In Christianity there are 3 things that are significant to be able to appear before God as the natural sinners we are (from Gods perspective). Those things are Blood, Water and Oil. Or put differently the Sacrifice, the Cleansing and the Anointing. In the Old Testament those steps were taken within rituals by the Levites (descendants of the tribe of Levi, selected for priesthood) in the Holy Tabernacle before they could approach the altar. This ritual within the tabernacle was a forebode of the coming of Jesus. Jesus also made his personal sacrifice (blood of Jesus), was baptized (cleansing) and got anointed (descending/entering of holy Spirit after baptism), after which his great works began.
For people to be saved from death (reincarnation), all below is done in the name of Jesus:

-Proclaim that Jesus is Lord. That he/she believes Jesus is the son of our Heavenly Father through divine conception. That he died for our sins, rose from the dead after three days and ascended into the Heavenly realm.

-The sacrifice: This is about letting go of earthly desires and placing life into the hands of God. This means being willing to let go of everything the person desires from the earthly life. Becoming unbound from earthly attachments, like giving up things that don't help others to be helped and grow (like e.g. looking at a telephone a lot, watching Netflix regularly, gaming years away, smoking, drinking, using drugs, being abusive to yourself or other in whatever way), and willing to do as He lovingly asks, knowing He holds your well-being and that of everyone as His highest priority.

-The water, which is the baptism in water, as a sign of spiritual turnaround from the sinful (from Gods perspective) old earthly life: go in as the old (flesh=earthly focus), come out as the new (spirit=Heavenly focus). This includes forgiving everyone that mistreated him/her throughout the past. Confess the (secret) things he/she regret doing, to God. Shows Him he/she trusts him. Opens the heart completely to Him. And vow your willingness to change according to God’s will. This is part of the cleansing.

-The Oil, which is the reception of the holy Spirit in your body and life. This is a conscious decision through prayer: Being aware you will subject yourself to the teachings and the direction given by the holy Spirit. Asking our spiritual Father to guide your life according to his plan with the holy Spirit. This is for the rest of the life, here on earth. And opening and inviting the holy Spirit into your heart and life. Proclaiming you understand the implications of receiving the holy Spirit in your life, and vowing willingness to follow the direction given by the Spirit. In Jesus'name. Amen.

For me these elements needed spiritual preparation. I didn’t want to just say the above things without feeling I understood what it meant and without feeling it to be true. I came from deep skepticism. I have been praying to understand each part. After the prayers, parts began to fall into place one by one. And when I had all the parts, the holy Spirit showed itself to me indirectly. I experienced it to be real, could get around it and decided to read more about the holy Spirit. I got a book from my wife about the holy Spirit. In the book was a prayer, which was inspirational, but I wanted to do the prayer from my own heart. In my own way, so I’d feel good about it. I think it’s important to do it in your own way, honest, with an open heart, with your own words, though containing the elements as mentioned. I proclaimed all the elements without hesitation, as I had experienced the holy Spirit to be of a greater love than I had ever experienced.

Looking at the elements: Sounds heavy, maybe? Having to proclaim Jesus is Lord and all that, sacrificing your earthly life, committing for life, following Gods will. And in some respects, it is. Some things are hard to let go. However, on the other hand. Saying Jesus is Lord, is acknowledging that his way is the good/loving way; is accepting his authority in heaven and earth. ‘Lord’ and ‘authority’, for some, both might have kind of a negative connotation. Though my experience is different. Because there is no negativity to Jesus, or God, or the holy Spirit. It is pure good, pure truth, pure knowledge, pure justice, pure power, pure love. And after a person has taken these steps wholeheartedly, he/she will learn this. Life will be different, yes, but in a good, healthy, pure way. It is freedom in the highest sense, where you see that your sacrifice will benefit the well-being of the whole. Like an ant serving its’ colony. All for love. Accepting that with the help of God and the holy Spirit greater impact will be made on the level of love. (If one doesn’t fully understand, insights can be requested through prayer. (as is the case with all things one would like to understand from a Heavenly perspective: ask sincerely in the name of Jesus and you will be answered, though maybe not in the way you might expect. Sense closely!))

I know there’s faith that is like half… Yes, does go to church; yes, does pray before dinner, was baptized when young, though doesn’t really connect to God or the Holy spirit. Does not learn what God wants with them and just goes about doing their daily personal business. That is not the path.

There are people that want to get all the answers to life, but aren’t willing to sacrifice. That is not the way it works. One might hear about it, but will not experience. And often, not experiencing is not believing. That is also not the path.

Looking at our earthly world, where people are being brought up with a focus on self. From school, to work, house, car, wealth, power, ego, appearance, media, technology and what more. This is where the global manipulation plays its role. Making sure people are doing everything except the will of God, which will lead them away from eternal life and keep them on the path of reincarnation. Is what some would call the work of satan. I will call it a disconnect from God, and yes, there are groups/people/powers in this world that will go to great lengths, to make that group of disconnected people bigger in this world. He who has eyes sees.

Let me ask: How is one able to become one with the Source if not willing to let go of life on earth and connect with Him to become holy?

No connection with him == not (on the path to be) holy == no entry into the Heavenly realm.

Leviticus 11:44 44“Be holy, because I am holy” 

[Words of Joy]

What if one passed “the gate”?

Acts 13:38-39 38 “Therefore, my friends, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

Ephesians 2:13 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Acts 15:8 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.

John 7:38 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”

Here’s a visual example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHQBCpi-wOI&feature=youtu.be&t=235) of someone who just received the holy Spirit, after opening up her heart. Rivers of living water are flowing in her, barely able to stand up because of it.

Ephesians 2:10 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

John 15:5 5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

1 John 4:3-5 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. 4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them.

2 Corinthians 5:16-19 16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Colossians 2:16 16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Philippians 2:5-11 5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; 7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death—even death on a cross! 9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 12:3-21
Humble Service in the Body of Christ
3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you. 4 For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5 so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; 7 if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; 8 if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.

Love in Action
9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10 Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves.11 Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12 Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13 Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.
17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Opinion/experience/conviction
Understand that below is my personal experience. There are different ways people experience passing the gate/being saved/experience the holy Spirit and the gifts it provides by divine grace. Though they share a common goal.

I gave my life as a living sacrifice. I’d been thinking of things that were not helping a spiritual growth from a Godly perspective. I used to play Magic the Gathering with great pleasure. And had an extensive collection of older cards. I decided to sell all cards and stop playing. We used to watch cable television. We decided to drop cable. We removed the television. We did buy a projector and use laptop for watching movies and documentaries that build us up. I used to play games on my telephone. I removed all games and stopped playing on it. I stopped reading the newspapers. I decided not to get drunk anymore. All decisions to be able to grow as effective and healthy as possible. This also provided room in my life for spiritual dedication and learning. I thought of how I could show my love and decided to learn to play the guitar. Flamenco guitar. Because that style intrigues me and I think it’s beautiful. I thought that would be a beautiful gift of dedication, that will allow me to support singing songs to God. Some friends were not able to accept/respect my decisions. I parted with them. Not easy, though needed I felt. All this was part of my sacrifice.

After learning all steps for being saved/repent/receiving the holy Spirit, I thought of a prayer that I would do, that held all elements needed as described in ‘How does one pass “the gate”?’, and prayed with hearable words to Jesus, to make clear I meant it, and spoke to him about all those elements, that I wanted to change for the better, that I accepted Him as my savior, that I believe he is the son of God through divine conception, died for our sins, rose from dead on the third day and ascended into heaven, that I was sorry for the things I did, told him what I had done, and asked whether he could send the holy Spirit to help me grow in love on a way that it pleases God. That’s when invited the holy Spirit. I opened all my heart for reception of the holy Spirit and it came into my body. It was noting I had ever experienced before. It was overwhelming in a good way.

After I passed the gate my heart was renewed by the Spirit. To me it felt like energy doing work in my heart. Also in my brain. Not sure what happened in my brain, I know I understand the bible better than before. Though I know for sure my heart is more compassionate. More emotional also. Like it feels more than I was used to.

There are several gifts that the holy Spirit can give by divine grace. For me communicating with the holy Spirit is one I received when passing the gate, and another one that the holy Spirit showed me was how to remove an ‘unclean’ spirit from a person’s body. I personally haven’t practiced it yet in a life situation. My wife did, and it was life changing for her. It might be, that more to that extend will follow for me also, though maybe I need to be built up more in faith, knowledge and experience. Time will tell.

After I received the holy Spirit into my life, I had great energy and felt an urge to read a lot about what had happened to me, to make sense of it all and to understand how it fits in the Grand plan. For me it took about a year of reading regularly combined with prayer and fasting (which both help to rapid understanding of certain things) to get a good understanding. There are things that one can do by itself, though becoming holy, as mentioned earlier can’t be achieved merely by human effort. This is where the holy Spirit comes into play. On this page there’s a good article that describes this. The whole article is a good read, though if you want to jump directly to the part explaining how the holy Spirit comes into play, search for “Holiness comes from the holy Spirit” in this document (https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2018/may-web-only/pentecost-how-spirit-sets-us-up-for-holiness.html)

The holy Spirit will guide me based on questions I ask that can be answered with yes, to which the Spirit reacts with energy darts. This builds my understanding. When I’m thinking over stuff, analyzing things, sometimes the holy Spirit reacts with darts when I hit truth somewhere. This helps me understand myself and the Grand plan better, and leads me down a healthy path of personal development and living.

Some people distrust the bible. I didn’t trust it one bit either. Moreover, I wouldn’t touch the bible. Oh no! Not for me! God knows I’ve been blocking repeatedly. And the reaction understandable given the corrupt history of the church. But I learned something remarkable about the bible. Even though I know it has been changed. (And still is being changed!) But nonetheless, there is truth in the bible. Beautiful thing is the holy Spirit knows where the truth is. The Spirit is the key to the bible. I have been guided on multiple occasions. From one chapter to another. And when reading a chapter, the holy Spirit confirms to me the part that is truth, the moment I read it. I haven’t read the whole bible yet. I did read/listened to the New Testament three times. So, I don’t know the full book yet. However, I’m being shown things, that I haven’t read yet. One example: the Spirit guided me to Matthew 13. And after reading the full chapter I asked: ”What does ‘blazing furnace’ (e.g. Matthew 13:40-42 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+13%3A40-42&version=NIV)) mean at the end of the age?”. Many people take those references literally, though I rather ask than assume. Knowing I had asked what it means, I also asked how I can find out. I asked and Spirit confirmed bible as source. (Other times when I ask questions, the Spirit might guide me to other books or internet for understanding.) So I opened the bible again, moving my eyes over the content page with different books. The Spirit shot a dart of energy at me while reading Isaiah. I do know that Isaiah was one of the prophets, and end times would probably be in the back of the book. I saw “Judgment and Hope, chapter 66”. Sounded about right, and I started reading. Then at verse 4 “so I also will choose harsh treatment for them and will bring on them what they dread.” The Spirit darted me with energy while reading that line. That blew me away. Just wow. I don’t make this stuff up, I’m just relaying. I didn’t have that insight before. To get back, I don’t have to trust the bible completely. I can trust the holy Spirit to show me what God feels I need to know. And when parts are confirmed, it becomes so much clearer. Especially when I ask more questions, which also can get confirmed. This way, the big questions one has of life get answered. All in His time. The Spirit will build up with divine knowledge. The book is merely a tool.

John 14:26 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Sometimes I pray and ask to get direction on what I shall do. And I get response from the holy Spirit, when browsing through different options in my mind. Sometimes it confirms reading a book, other times visiting certain people, going to a specific church on Sunday, or not going to a church on Sunday and doing something else. There is no fixed pattern there. Don’t let people make you think otherwise! God will put me where He knows is best at that moment. I try to not get distracted by other people’s thoughts of what I should do. I follow the will of the main One, knowing it’s the best option from the highest perspective.

I always pray and fast in the name of Jesus Christ (as he is the one and only mediator). It protects me from the earthly spiritual realm and makes that my intent reaches God without interference. I will not allow anything to pull me of my path, through Christ’s authority. Please see below verse.

Colossians 2:8-10 8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ. 9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.

I’m thankful we received an example of imo risks regarding elemental spiritual forces. Recall this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103068-Inanna-Channeling-Thread)?

For me that was a clear case of influenced by an earthly spiritual force. Recall how he was saying he contacted? “30 seconds of meditation, then my Kundalini awakens, the pineal gland and the top of my head lights up”
This I would like to say about it: Although I’m convinced there are both good and bad spirits in the earthly realm, it can be difficult to discern the difference. And I understand it can be interesting, because different, knowledge, experience, “personal development”. My advice is to not go there, to avoid misdirection, misguidance, abuse, sickness and what more. From my perspective, I think it’s a dead end, if enlightenment is your goal. Better be protected:

Luke 11:24-26 24 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ 25 When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. 26 Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.”

With your house/temple/body filled with Christ, no impure, elemental, earthly spirit can enter.

I do meditate, however it is more in the form of connecting by thinking/praying. No need involving chakras, kundalini spirit or pineal gland for this. God already knows. Always. Doesn't matter whether one is meditating, praying or just thinking/speaking.

Hebrews 4:13 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

I’ve experienced this to be true, as I only have to think and the holy Spirit reacts.

Most important thing to progress on the path is commitment, willingness, dedication: keeping communication lines open to God and the holy Spirit, through Jesus Christ’s authority (In Jesus’ name). Thinking critically about personal behavior. Asking holy Spirit for guidance. Showing gratefulness to our heavenly Father, for the way he works in your life. All this provides insights and makes you pure, through your willingness. And being grateful can be expressed in many ways. I had to grow in this respect, because at first it felt uncomfortable to sing, to praise, to speak positively about God. But I’ve learned that my feelings changed after experiencing more from/with God and the holy Spirit. Now I sing regularly, am thankful for everything I experience (daily). And now I understand better why people go sing in town and try to convince other people. Not sure whether that will be my future, but who knows where my path will go. God will show me in time.
I must say, I just love His way of working and the way my experience of life keeps improving by the day. And I feel there’s a more involved plan ahead, if I can keep my commitment and keep on working on it. Others on the path have confirmed this. I already notice things moving, shifting, preparing. I can recommend it to anyone.

John 3-8 8 God’s Spirit blows wherever it wishes. You hear its sound, but you don’t know where it comes from or where it is going. It’s the same with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

When one opened his heart and received the Spirit, following the steps as mentioned earlier, he will not only be considered a child of God, from Gods perspective, but also will be part of the body of Christ. The body of Christ consists of many Spirit-touched Christians (born again, as Jesus also indicated as necessity). The head of the body is Christ. Each person will have its own role within the body. Up front, no-one, that became part of the body of Christ, will know what his/her part will be. (Though I found, that everything that happened before in my life is helpful as part of the Godly plan for me. Nothing happened coincidentally.) The person will be built up, to be able to do his/her part of Gods greater plan in the way that it pleases Him (and will also please the person), then will be guided to serve for the sake of love. There are no boundaries. Paths will be created. Doors will be opened. Changes will take place. The people within the body of Christ are protected. God loves His children, and paths of escape will be given in situations of danger (if it’s not their time to part with this earthly realm). This is why the children of God are free. Nothing earthly can bind them, that can’t be unbound by God. One could say: “But, you are serving God, how can you be free if you are serving?” It is true that it’s a choice that one makes for life. It is in servitude. But not like a slave. It’s servitude in grace. With love. There is no unbearable suffering to it. One might experience pain in change. Overcoming profound knots in one’s psyche/history is not easy. But faith is stronger and overcomes this each time, knowing God is by your side, guiding, providing insight and strength, shining light on your path. This drives development. Benefits will be experienced beyond expectation (which is easy if you expect nothing, though it will be mighty impressive). That’s His grace working. God knows when it’s time for work, when it’s time for rest, when it’s time to have fun. Better than we do. I rest more now than I did before. I have more fun than I did before. I read more than I did before. My whole way of living has improved on different levels. And I’m helping people the way God wants me to. I feel I’m making a difference in making people feel better. I finally feel I am where I should be, after a life of wondering why I’m here on this earth; feeling purposelessness. Now living a wonderful life living the life God has intended for me. In a manner that pleases Him and supports His divine plan. I’m experiencing fulfillment, peace, happiness and joy because of this. I do still have to make decisions. It’s not like I’m fully remotely controlled like a robot. No, I’m guided down a path of increasing holiness, while helping people and enjoying life. Still going to work daily (for now?), still make mistakes, still making unwise decisions, still falling and having to stand up again. But guided while growing in holiness and love, while helping others. Free in servitude to love, without expecting anything in return. Walking on a path of light. Free from reincarnation. For me it’s the only way.

Isaiah 40:31 31 but those who hope in the Lord
will renew their strength.
They will soar on wings like eagles;
they will run and not grow weary,
they will walk and not be faint.

Psalm 1:3 3 That person is like a tree planted by streams of water,
which yields its fruit in season
and whose leaf does not wither—
whatever they do prospers.

These verses content is because they’re saved by Jesus, born anew, sided by the holy Spirit, and children of ‘He that is’.

At some point I asked myself: Once enlightened what will they do for eternity? I’ve been giving that question some thought. I got a few insights:

-The consciousness of the person that became enlightened remains
-The spiritual light body can (de)materialize.
-One would be in the company of other ascended spirits, and God
-For this one I’ve been stretched recently. It came on my path recently while sympathizing with Omni’s situation and seeing one of his older (2014) threads pass by in ‘New Posts’ which fed my curiosity. I read a couple of comments when I stumbled upon this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78387-Infinity-Extraterrestrial-Views-on-God&p=916514&viewfull=1#post916514)

In the post Omni mentions his theory of the ‘all’ starting with “Each Multiverse has a set of Gods. There is a soul mate couple of Gods that is basically the most powerful God(s) in the Multiverse.” While reading it, I felt the holy Spirit darting my heart with energy. Once for each sentence. I read it again, but only for the first two sentences I again felt the holy Spirit. I was in shock, trying to comprehend what this meant. My whole believe system was shaking, feeling like breaking. My heart was aching because of this. It brought me off balance severely. I didn’t know where to go with this information. In no way would I be able to tell my fellow Christians this. They wouldn’t be able to process it, I thought. I was in crisis. I told my wife, who was trying to make sense of it, but it was difficult. So I turned to prayer. Digging deep to make sense of it all. Asking questions. I made a list and started praying. Two questions got confirmed:

-Are enlightened spirits able to travel cross universes?
-Are enlightened spirits able to create a universe?

The response to those two questions blew me away! Just wow. Imagine that! Some may have already gotten this insight, but it was a new perspective for me. I started pondering on it and I was thinking about having the feeling, every now and then, that since having the holy Spirit in me, the world reacts to my thinking, to my prayers, to my sudden needs, to my wishes, it’s like a lot is coming true. Then I had to think about some bible verses:

John 14:12 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Genesis 1:27 27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

Finally, I was able to put it together. In Gods beautiful loving and holy grace, he will enable the enlightened to be just like Him. This analysis was confirmed by the holy Spirit.

But when and how will this become possible? For starters, the second coming of Jesus is a turning point on which the enlightened spirits will ascend, I learned through prayer. The spirits of enlightened individuals that passed away will not reincarnate and remain in the earthly realm, until they are raised (as Jesus was raised) by the holy Spirit, when Jesus comes.

Mark 12:25 25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Luke 20:34-35 34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

After the resurrection God will change things. The bible speaks of the new Jerusalem, a new heaven and earth, where justice will be done from Gods perspective. Where, in large lines, the dark will go into suffering, as their greatest fears become reality, and the light will live blessed. For the ascended spirits next thing is “the Marriage”. This needed some consideration for me. Let’s have a look what the bible says about this:

For consideration: the parable of the 10 virgins (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25&version=NIV):
I’d like to highlight that this parable speaks of the bridegroom to come and about preparation for it.
(Sidenote: A strong message in this parable: Do not come unprepared! Not without oil!
Oil being the reference to the anointing, which is brought upon a person by the holy Spirit. Therefore, it’s important to pray for receiving the holy Spirit to help in becoming holy, when taking the steps as described in earlier chapter ‘How does one pass “the Gate”’. )

From the Old Testament prophet:
Isaiah 62:5 5 As a young man marries a young woman, so will your Builder marry you; as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will your God rejoice over you.

To the new testament prophecy:
Revelation 21:2-7 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new! ”Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.

Revelation 21:22-27 22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Revelation 22:5 5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

So, after the second coming of Jesus, there’ll be a “Marriage” with a Heavenly dowry. Inheriting the spring of the water of eternal life. That will enable the enlightened ones to create universes.

This is what I believe. This is what I’m going for. Some people might think I’m crazy. And that’s expected. Though they probably never experienced the holy Spirit in their live.
As I am experiencing daily, feeling the love, the power, observing the knowledge, I’m becoming more and more motivated to shift gears even more. When reading about people not being able to keep up with the amount of information that is dropped daily on the web, I worry not. When I’m searching the web for info, I pray for guidance and while glancing across the search results on e.g. Google, the holy Spirit will dart my heart. Super-fast, trustworthy and exactly what I need at that given time. Sounds unreal? That’s for a large portion how I wrote this article. I’m often laughing about how efficient information is coming to me. Though I’m not special. Pretty average, I guess. The Spirit shows me, I simply follow. It’s amazing, and I will never leave this path even if it kills me, so help me God.
 
Personal experience Christian enlightenment

I just made the jump. A leap of faith. It knocked on my door, I chose to not ignore it, as I witnessed love on an unexperienced level. I opened the door and flowed with it accepting all consequences. And I’ve been pleasantly surprised; often, daily, or multiple times a day. Our heavenly Father is good. He supports me/us on every level. Though it took time and experience to come to that realization. Life hasn’t become less, it became more. More insight, more energy, more love, more pleasure, more peace, safer, more stable, more challenging in a good way. I feel growth, I feel power, I see more, understand more, experience more profound.

Commitment, perseverance, dedication and faith are what make the relationship with my heavenly Father better and better while days are passing by and love in me is developing. It started small and is building up, step by step. My prayer time grew from a hesitating minute to more than two hours. Why now longer? Not only because I’m sending good thoughts for people in bad situations, but I’m also discussing my life daily. And sometimes the situation is, that the Spirit provides me information as preparation for an event/occurrence, and information keeps coming. The energy that it gives, makes that time flies by, content is very interesting, and before I know it a couple of hours have gone by. Like talking to a friend about a captivating subject. I’ve learned a notebook and a pen are a must. Every insight I get confirmed I try to write down.

Some prayers take time to get answered or need rephrasing of the question, to get answered. And extra prayer is sometimes needed. This might seem burdensome, but once you see the effects and know growing in love is the intent, then the experience of burden fades.

Matthew 11:28-30 28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

Besides prayer being answered later, there is also prayer, that gets confirmed directly, in my heart by the holy Spirit, with a dart of energy. I read or saw somewhere someone saying God wants to be part of every decision in your life. At the time I thought that was kind of extreme and didn’t have a clue of how such a thing would work. But I’ve learned through dedication. Now a year later from the moment I decided to give my life in the hands of God, I have learned through fasting every now and then, praying every day 2, 3 or more times a day and increasing duration of prayer, that more and more is being confirmed by the holy Spirit. And besides important life altering decisions, also the simplest things are being given direction. Like what color we should paint a room, what lamp to buy, what to do on Saturday or Sunday, whether to visit a doctor, how to get better from illness, what movie to watch, what book to read. I can ask anything. He’s willing to guide no matter big or small.

I also get darts of energy to the heart during my daily business, causing me to think things, that are happening at that exact time, through again. I often get more insight when I think such a moment through. And sometimes I just don’t have a clue why I get energy darts to the heart in certain situations or when thinking things over. Sometimes I’m busy doing things and don’t have the capacity at that moment to analyze then and there, why I’m being notified about something. I feel I need to grow on this point. I feel there is more efficiency and experience to be obtained on this point.

Life in general became lighter and enlightened. Physically, mentally, spiritually and circumstantially.

Physically, because I feel I am being shown the state of my body and the effect of my choices. I received insights on fasting, through praying in the holy Spirit, which has been helpful and motivating. The holy Spirit touched my heart and now I feel more emotion/compassion in the heart.

Ezekiel 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

Mentally I got more relaxed, peaceful, happy and feel really supported. I experience God guiding me through the challenges in my life. I get confronted with them, but also am provided the insights to overcome them. Though this doesn’t always make things easy. Some confrontations with fear and personality are profound and difficult. This is where I experience my inadequacy at times. Sometimes knowing what is needed to overcome but finding myself struggling to do it in the earthly reality. Sometimes it’s as if I can feel myself being built up step by step in a constant pace on different levels and already see the path, just need the circumstances to arrive to be able to pass the tests. Sometimes my heart hurts when someone was involved, who suffered because of my oafish behavior under certain circumstances. Then afterwards I feel I failed to pass the test. And while thinking to be prepared, still get surprised by situations. Though I know God is always on my side, holding my hand, increasingly providing insight while moving on the path and persevering in faith of victory.

Romans 5:3-5 3 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

Circumstantially I learned, that there is so much more I notice happening that are statistically extremely unlikely under ‘earthly laws’, though still they keep on happening. Things we pray for ending up at our doorstep so to speak, people getting physically better from illness, resources that unexpectedly come to us, sudden work change in combination with salary increase, and so much more. I lost track of how much. But we do get a lot of what we ask for, when what we ask is reasonable and hearty. Absolutely remarkable and uplifting.

I must admit there are also challenges. Like the relationships with people you’ve known for a long time, that don’t share the path. Like family, friends, maybe colleagues. Because of the change of perspective within me, my behavior also changed. Certain personal behavior just isn’t acceptable anymore. Though friends, family, colleagues who enjoy that particular side of me, are now missing that. And some let me know. And that can be emotional. I experience it as a transitional phase. At first, they might not like the change, as they are missing something they appreciated. Though I’m seeing, as time goes by, they also see good new things coming into the picture. And new appreciation grows.

Spiritually: Given the relatively short time I have been dedicating myself to God and his will, I already see so much that is enlightening me. The holy Spirit is a light on my path. The connection with the holy Spirit is like a connection with absolute truth. My spiritual relationship with God started hesitant. And I spoke to Him about this. As it was difficult at first for me to give Him my love. I had to get used to a relationship with Him. I asked to be patient with me, so my love and dedication had a chance to grow. I didn’t want to act giving love, while not really feeling it (yet). He understood lovingly. Our relationship has grown, step by step, through dedication and perseverance, my love for Him has also grown. I’ve experienced while giving love, that the love I receive from Him is greater, way more evolved than mine. While noticing His love time and again, my faith also grows. He hasn’t let me down once. I made some bad decisions here and there, though nonetheless He keeps on supporting me.

I learned to be careful about taking decisions without consulting the holy Spirit. Without consulting one would have to rely on their own brain/feelings and therefore could lead the person into situations, that are not as spiritually uplifting, as the ones confirmed or suggested by the holy Spirit. E.g. one could choose to be part of a religious group or church, with their own culture, rituals and history, without knowing full well whether this church/group acts in accordance with the divine plan. Could well be, that the people within the church, maybe even the church leaders, don’t walk their path with God; not having an actual connection to God or the Holy Spirit. This could damage one’s spiritual growth considerably. Not discouraging Church visits though. If the pastor is guided by the holy Spirit, then he will bring into memory what is important to the people visiting. And being in a community of people with the same mindset can be supportive, uplifting and fun. I’ve learned to wait for the holy Spirit to show or confirm to me where to go. This way I’m certain it’s in accordance with God’s will and spiritual growth will be stimulated.

1 Corinthians 2:9-11 9 However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

2 Corinthians 4:6 6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ.

All I’ve written in this chapter for me already feels like enlightenment, though I feel there’s heaps more to learn and evolve. This has only been one year of dedication. I understand, based on the experiences of others walking the path, I will experience, learn and get more involved, the more I dedicate to God humbly, while being loving and willing to work. I feel love, towards Him and my fellow man is growing inside. And in perseverance I will become one with Him, more and more. And because of this, willingness and ability to help, with the power of the holy Spirit and the authority of Jesus, grows. Knowledge will also grow as it pleases Him, in His time.
Christian enlightenment is about your spirit being transformed into a light body, when you become part of the body of Christ (as explained earlier). God allows you to enter the Heavenly realm when part of Christ. And the path is about growing in love, in accordance with God’s divine plan, with help of the holy Spirit, and with Jesus on the one side as an example of how to walk the path of enlightenment and on the other side having actual authority over both Earthly and Heavenly realms, and being the advocate between God and mankind. In Jesus’ name the children of God can do ‘miracles’ bigger than he did, with the power of the holy Spirit. Out of love for everyone.

John 14:12 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Let me end with saying that my experience made me aware of the importance of the knowledge of the path to enlightenment of Jesus. I feel it to be a matter of life and death on a spiritual level. I would like to recommend everyone to consider, with grace and love, to walk this path, if not already.

Please allow me to repeat that this is my personal experience combined with what the holy Spirit has taught me. If anyone has questions I’ll be happy to answer them to my best ability. I don’t have all the answers and think some will remain unanswered. In such case, best advice I can give is to become enlightened and ask all the questions you have.

Matthew 7:7 7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

If you have other experiences, please consider sharing, so it may benefit all. If you have similar experiences, please do share your personal testimonies and/or witnesses if willing.

May your spirits be saved through Jesus and touched by the holy Spirit, to transform you to experience He-that-is and may His grace shine on you and through you on all others for love’s sake for all eternity.

John 15:12-15 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

God bless you all:flower:

[Satori]

Let me confess that I gave most of what you wrote a quick read; reading your experience, conviction and opinion with more care than the quotes or paraphrases from the Bible.

I thank you in your posts more out of a sense of appreciation and true respect for your beliefs and for the very extensive and thoughtful effort you put into your posts.

[Valerie Villars]

Slobbe, there is such a wonderful purity in your intent and writing. It comes across loud and clear.

:flower:

[Bill Ryan]

Jesus’ path to enlightenment (ending reincarnation)

Why would one not want to reincarnate?

That's exactly like saying that one wants to go to sleep at night and then not wake up to another day.

Personally, I'm looking forward to tomorrow. There are already some things I've planned to do.

And I'm looking forward to my next life, too. :)

[5th]

Jesus’ path to enlightenment (ending reincarnation)

Why would one not want to reincarnate?

That's exactly like saying that one wants to go to sleep at night and then not wake up to another day.

Personally, I'm looking forward to tomorrow. There are already some things I've planned to do.

And I'm looking forward to my next life, too. :)

There are many reasons why one wouldn't want to reincarnate.

A person may have had enough of suffering, injustice and poverty.

A person may feel out of place on this planet and desires a non-physical existence.

A person may have suffered terrible abuse as a child, etc.

I'm happy to reincarnate but there may be some truth to the idea that if we finish all our 'tasks' on this planet we become a spirit guide or have some other useful existence in the spirit world.

"John 14:6 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Surely nobody actually believes this? Unfortunately, many people do...

[Dennis Leahy]

Jesus’ path to enlightenment (ending reincarnation)

Why would one not want to reincarnate?

That's exactly like saying that one wants to go to sleep at night and then not wake up to another day.

Personally, I'm looking forward to tomorrow. There are already some things I've planned to do.

And I'm looking forward to my next life, too. :)
If you take the description offered (collectively) by Dr. Michael Newton's 7000+ patients, spirit life is not at all like being asleep, and is as busy as you want to be. Some of the activities that the hypnotized patients describe sound astoundingly interesting and soul-satisfying. Shuffleboard wasn't mentioned.

On the other hand, if I am convinced that I am merely one of 8 billion human witnesses to Earth's great (anthropomorphic) 6th mass extinction event, to watch Gaia be tortured and the biodiversity be destroyed by the greedy 2-legged cockroaches, AND if I actually have control over whether or not I have to come back here... I'll opt out.

[Bill Ryan]

Jesus’ path to enlightenment (ending reincarnation)

Why would one not want to reincarnate?

That's exactly like saying that one wants to go to sleep at night and then not wake up to another day.

Personally, I'm looking forward to tomorrow. There are already some things I've planned to do.

And I'm looking forward to my next life, too. :)

There are many reasons why one wouldn't want to reincarnate.

For some people, yes. But for most, life is maybe challenging but on the whole interesting and fulfilling: there are good times with deeply loved friends and family, as well as a lot of fun to be had in every way, at least now and then.

And for quite a few, their life really is pretty good. (Not referring to wealth and possessions here. I'm as poor as a church mouse, but my life is rich in a myriad of ways.)

This may be a topic for another thread, but it often seems to be that at least some people who just don't want to reincarnate have just had an unenviably uncomfortable life, filled with disappointments, pain and failure.

One might empathize... but this hardly makes it a spiritual principle that we all have to somehow 'ascend' in order to get out of what some people believe is a rough throw of the dice.


"John 14:6 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Surely nobody actually believes this? Unfortunately, many people do... Right. I'd be very sure he never said anything like that. But the words would have been scripted (i.e. put into his mouth) by the editors commissioned by the Councils of Nicaea.

What's REALLY important to remember and understand is that no-one was there following him around taking careful notes. It was all a mish-mash of passed-on hearsay, eventually written down by several people, as best they could, but then very strictly filtered and edited (for the Roman agenda) several centuries later.

[Luke Holiday]

"John 14:6 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Surely nobody actually believes this? Unfortunately, many people do...[/QUOTE]


I certainly do believe in the truth of those words!

I also believe it is one the most important tenants of all true religions.

The keys are in:

1.Knowing that the bible is written to allow for a stratified understanding based on one's level of awareness.

2. Jesus had achieved christ consciousness when he spoke these words and it is the christ consciousness to which he is referring

I believe one could add clarity by rewording the quote to something like the following:

" You will not be able to ascend unless you have achieved christ consciousness as I have done."

Of course The important corrolary quote from the bibilical Jesus is:

" I am the life and the way - follow me" - which I take to mean:

I have achieved christ consciousness - Please allow me to teach you how to do the same.

With that written, I agree that the literal (mis)interpretation of the quotes has led to much intolerance, bloodshed and death[/I]

[Valerie Villars]

And yet, there is something enduring and inspiring and true about Jesus which has helped me to aspire to in my own life.

Do I believe that one has to go through him to get to God? No. But, I love what he represents. For me, "The Gospel of Thomas" is a truer representation of what Jesus is or was in that lifetime. No wonder it was hidden it in a jar in a cave.

He doesn't say anything about people having to go through him to get to the Father. He is saying we are all God. And very powerful. Those who manipulate us don't want us to know the truth of that; using fear and ignorance of course, to keep us in the dark.

It's way more powerful than the Bible, in my opinion.

God is an equal opportunity employer.

You can reach God through music, too.

[East Sun]

Slobbie,

With all due respect, you are obviously very intelligent, but IMO Fanatical in the extreme.

I have no desire to debate you because I have my own learned opinions on these matters.

In have studied the Old and New Testaments and am quite content with what I have seen there.

Very different to the worldly view.

Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AutumnW]

I like Jesus, or, the Messianic movement and some of its accomplishments. The everlasting life clause in the Christian life contract is appealing and open to everyone, as it happens. What Jesus represents is completely and utterly splendid. Kindness, goodness, sharing, love of one's neighbour. It's something we should all aspire to as social beings. And then a dash of Paganism to support the natural world.

I want to reincarnate to help salvage the planet. There is a lot of work to be done that I cannot do in this current form. I am not ready to be a spirit yet. I have personality flaws I have yet to overcome.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

In a dream like state, I flew through the stars arranged in the shape of an eagle's head. As the eagle consumed my consciousness, I felt tremendous love. And realized I could choose anything I wanted for my next adventure. Maybe that would mean returning here for another human experience or maybe a non-human experience somewhere else. I want to be wherever I feel the best. Feeling good is my goal. I suspect that I have a very long list of projects that I cannot remember now.

I've had two dream experiences interacting with Jesus (or an imposter). I can say that he has a wonderful sense of humor.

[Valerie Villars]

Ron, I do think a wonderful sense of humor is a good sign. :waving:

[Eagle Eye]

Just add this to your perspective.

(4:157) And their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

(4:171) O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about God except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of God and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in God and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, God is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is God as Disposer of affairs.

Ancient scriptures that clarify and admit the position of Jesus, but strongly oppose their misunderstanding of the messenger and the symbol of cross that was a pagan symbol never a symbol revealed to the messenger.

[Sadieblue]

Slobbe, thank you for this beautiful testimony.

And yes, I love Jesus, too.

[5th]

Debating the truth of religion with a 'true believer' is a waste of time. I have Muslim friends who are quite broad minded, very tolerant and intelligent but hold the most brainwashed beliefs that cannot be shaken. In fact, they say I am more truly Muslim than most Muslims and hope that I convert to the faith eventually! The same applies to Christians.

But perhaps it's not a complete waste of time as one day they may see that their belief system is at a very low level and a much better one exists.

[greybeard]

Even though I am not of any religion the teachings of Jesus have been of great help and an inspiration to me

Surrender, devotion and love the greatest aids on the path to Enlightenment.
Surrender to what is, you could call it acceptance--
Devotion to Realization of the Self.
Love of the Divine

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
Courage to change the things I can
And wisdom to know the difference"
Chris

[happyuk]

Is not the whole purpose of why we are here is to break the cycle of earthly reincarnation, which clobber us through countless lifetimes?

Reincarnation means that you did not finish your schooling in that you have yet to pass in all the grades of physical, mental, and spiritual unfoldment. From the latent impressions I have of this life I know that I made pig's ear of my previous life. I think that there is a compelling reason why God does not usually allow us to recall all our previous lives. It is because we would end up becoming clannish, as is human nature, tending to re-associate with those we knew before, instead of expanding our love to become universal.

So long as we leave this earth at death with unfulfilled desires we have to come back again in order to fulfil those desires so that only then can we progress to the finer astral worlds (the "heavenly" realm of light and energy hidden behind the veil of the gross material universe), which offer significantly greater challenges than the mere strumming of harps. We have to try to realize that we are essentially spiritual travelers, here for only a short while, only to depart for a another world.

Think about it. This world has a lot of limitations and misery and the astral world has none.

When a soul leaves the expansiveness of the astral world to be born on earth, he finds himself confined in the mother's womb and wants to get out of it but can't.

For nine months he has to wait and he is then subjected to the helplessness of infancy. He then progresses into adolescence and has to fight through all manner of moods and emotions, which if he doesn't learn to control will get him into all kinds of misery.

He marries, struggles to support a family, and is happy for a short while, but then gets older and things start going wrong with his body and eventually he dies.

Every day this drama of limitation is playing out in our life and still we cling to this world as being the most desirable. It is not and was never meant to be.

Otherwise we would never strive to perceive the astral world, which is infinitely more real than the earth-plane, an inert lump of matter without the enlivening powers of the up-holding astral world. Material existence is only a shadow of that higher, finer dimension of reality.

Death simply offers man the more congenial environment of an astral world in which to purify his dross.

'Let not your heart be troubled... In my Father's house are many mansions. I go to prepare a place for you'
John 14:2

[greybeard]

"Be still and know that I am God"
To my mind points to meditation.
"Of myself I do nothing it is the Father within"
"Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven and all things will be added un to you"
"The Kingdom of heaven is within"
Forgive me if I miss quote.
These are memories from RI in Primary school--but hey made an impact even then.
I agree with happyyuk totally.

Enlightenment is not an end but a beginning--it is seen as kindergarten to advanced souls.
Enlightenment is literally the removal of ignorance.
The ignorance being that we were ever separate from God.
God became all that is without diminishing itself.

Not claiming to be right but maybe so.
Mystics say it is beyond description.
Jesus said "The peace that passeth all understanding".

Chris

[Pam]

Jesus’ path to enlightenment (ending reincarnation)

Why would one not want to reincarnate?

That's exactly like saying that one wants to go to sleep at night and then not wake up to another day.

Personally, I'm looking forward to tomorrow. There are already some things I've planned to do.

And I'm looking forward to my next life, too. :)

I have absolutely no desire to reincarnate here again. I read in another post you made how you are looking forward to coming back here again and again because this is where the fun is, and honestly I was surprised. I can accept that I am here and deal with it. If I were to come back, I will deal with it. I have wonderful moments of peace and inner joy. Something, I have observed is that those moments never come when I have set out to have fun. But there will come a time, I believe, where the concept of having fun looses it's shimmer and sparkle. I am not looking forward to going to sleep but to possibly a deeper experience of the joy and peace I have been fortunate enough to have glimpses of. I don't even have a desire to maintain the "Pam" persona or any reincarnated version of this. I see it as a prism, a perspective of the whole. There comes a time, as least it has for me, when the activities of man, all the drama, all the shenanigans, all the thriving, looses it's luster, the only thing that still gives me awe is the beauty and grandness of the natural world. Was it Solomon who said "there is nothing new under the sun"?.

[Pam]

And yet, there is something enduring and inspiring and true about Jesus which has helped me to aspire to in my own life.

Do I believe that one has to go through him to get to God? No. But, I love what he represents. For me, "The Gospel of Thomas" is a truer representation of what Jesus is or was in that lifetime. No wonder it was hidden it in a jar in a cave.

He doesn't say anything about people having to go through him to get to the Father. He is saying we are all God. And very powerful. Those who manipulate us don't want us to know the truth of that; using fear and ignorance of course, to keep us in the dark.

It's way more powerful than the Bible, in my opinion.

God is an equal opportunity employer.

You can reach God through music, too.

John 15:5 5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

The way I understand it is that he is not referring to himself as an individual but as Christ consciousness. He is referring to that state of consciousness that he is experiencing. Essentially he is saying we are all from the same consciousness, but you have to be able to experience that consciousness to experience the unification.

[Pam]

Even though I am not of any religion the teachings of Jesus have been of great help and an inspiration to me

Surrender, devotion and love the greatest aids on the path to Enlightenment.
Surrender to what is, you could call it acceptance--
Devotion to Realization of the Self.
Love of the Divine

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
Courage to change the things I can
And wisdom to know the difference"
Chris

I can't tell you how much guidance the good old serenity prayer has given me. It is so useful to pull out when I am stressed and not thinking clearly. It has given me the process of wise decision making more times than I can count.

[Smell the Roses]

I regularly attend the traditional Latin Mass at a local Catholic Church and am a practicing Catholic, although I rarely talk about it here. There is a fair amount of hostility toward religion here, and I have little interest in debates or justification. I'm glad to be on the journey with all of you. Jesus was enlightened, no question.
https://www.catholicfaithstore.com/daily-bread/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/sacred-heart_rays.jpg

[greybeard]

When I say im not of any religion--I should also say that im not against any either.
The Truth is to be found in all religions.
Jesus was at the highest level of enlightenment as was the Buddha according to the late Dr David R Hawkins.

Chris

[Sunny-side-up]

One thing I can say is that this is not the place to feel good in or party in.

This is the place to experience both good and bad feelings and so: know, understand, realise, gain emotions for both.
Then you know what it is to be a material creature in this material realm.

Only then can you have sympathy for both and not become controlled by either.

Then you can move on to higher states of being where you can help all who are still material if you so wish.
You can help them but, not to be happy here, but to help them move on.

We have our passed down stories of such conditions/places of living as 'Eden' 'Atlantis', they where supposedly Golden and advanced minded population, where are they now?
they all where ultimately consumed (or all left).

This material realm is not where such a place can be sustained, it's an illusion and just wishful thinking, like living in a desert and trying to keep a pot plant alive.

You take the pot plant
(Pot plant is you as a kind and good person)
to a place where it can be sustained and flourish
(Become goodness),
ultimately that is not in this material realm.

This material real as in Planet Earth was Eden, it is not now because we are incarnate on her, we all move on and so make Earth Eden again :sun:

[Bill Ryan]

Jesus’ path to enlightenment (ending reincarnation)

Why would one not want to reincarnate?

That's exactly like saying that one wants to go to sleep at night and then not wake up to another day.

Personally, I'm looking forward to tomorrow. There are already some things I've planned to do.

And I'm looking forward to my next life, too. :)

I have absolutely no desire to reincarnate here again. I read in another post you made how you are looking forward to coming back here again and again because this is where the fun is, and honestly I was surprised.

I think I may have used the wrong word! My apologies. Let me try to explain a little better, but I'm not trying to convince anything of anything. Just sharing a personal attitude and approach to life.

For me, 'fun' is NOT superficial partying, going to movies, eating too much chocolate cake, or watching soap operas on TV.

'Fun' =


Communing with nature
Playing with my dog
Enjoying serene, deep and meaningful connections with [many!] old friends
Tackling challenges, solving problems, and being creative
Learning as much as possible about as much as I possibly can
Developing skills and achieving goals
Helping others in any way I can
Recovering my long-term memories about who I really am
Understanding how to be a spiritual being in a mortal body.

:flower:

[Pam]

Jesus’ path to enlightenment (ending reincarnation)

Why would one not want to reincarnate?

That's exactly like saying that one wants to go to sleep at night and then not wake up to another day.

Personally, I'm looking forward to tomorrow. There are already some things I've planned to do.

And I'm looking forward to my next life, too. :)

I have absolutely no desire to reincarnate here again. I read in another post you made how you are looking forward to coming back here again and again because this is where the fun is, and honestly I was surprised.

I think I may have used the wrong word! My apologies. Let me try to explain a little better, but I'm not trying to convince anything of anything. Just sharing a personal attitude and approach to life.

For me, 'fun' is NOT superficial partying, going to movies, eating too much chocolate cake, or watching soap operas on TV.

'Fun' =


Communing with nature
Playing with my dog
Enjoying serene, deep and meaningful connections with [many!] old friends
Tackling challenges, solving problems, and being creative
Learning as much as possible about as much as I possibly can
Developing skills and achieving goals
Helping others in any way I can
Recovering my long-term memories about who I really am
Understanding how to be a spiritual being in a mortal body.

:flower:

Thank you for clarifying. It's interesting how we can use a word and each person can have a strong mental concept of something totally different..Using your definition I guess I am fun loving...I think I interpret the word fun as seeking out activities that are expected to generate a happy experience.. the happy experience in these situations almost feels obligatory. Fun of that sort has rarely ever worked for me, (unless the fun involves a natural setting) even as a little kid it left me with a kind of hollow feeling. A situation where the general consensus in the group is that what we are about to experience will generate a good time...or at the very least laughter and smiles whether we mean it or not.. I know, I'm a real party pooper and an odd duck:o I have to admit embracing the fun life, the party life during my drinking/drugging period..even under the influence I could really feel the emptiness of all that, and paradoxically, I used those substances as a sort of short cut to serenity and peace of mind, at least for an hour or two.

At this moment, I feel so much gratitude for having PA to be able to have these conversations. Thank you, everyone who shares your thoughts and opinions. Thank you Bill, for having the wisdom with the help of the moderators for having kept it this way all these years.

[Words of Joy]

Jesus’ path to enlightenment (ending reincarnation)

Why would one not want to reincarnate?

That's exactly like saying that one wants to go to sleep at night and then not wake up to another day.

Personally, I'm looking forward to tomorrow. There are already some things I've planned to do.

And I'm looking forward to my next life, too. :)

Thank you for this perspective.

It's funny how things can be looked at from different angles. I've more a feeling I am a sleep and can't wait for the morning to start. Many times have I wondered "What am I doing here?", "Is this it?", not experiencing utter satisfaction, though enjoying moments in time, periods in time. Though then again wondering "Why am I here?", "Why here?", "Why these circumstances?". I've been giving it long thoughts and came to personal realization it's not about this world. It's not about me either. I've been at it in this life here on earth, and admittedly, I messed up one thing after another for almost 30 years. Thinking about myself, my goals, my dreams, my desires, my future. Though never got any satisfaction. At some point I had enough of me. I made it a priority, to love my wife better. I had been failing at that, because of me. I wanted to reshape myself so I wouldn't hurt anyone anymore, because of me. And decided to think of others. What could I do for others? How could I change myself for others? And in that process, I started to see it. How happy I became of being there for others. I was agnostic at the time. I did believe in a God, though more as a state of being, a set of laws of life that helps a person grow. I started praying to God for others, not for me. I think the more I became helpful to others, the closer I got to God. At some point He reached out to me. I was ready to give myself, my life, in His control. I recognized His love would help me help others. When I gave myself to Him is when the world changed drastically. He is now driving my purpose. He is now steering my life. And he drives me to help others. At times I'm sent to people in mental despair. I help them, I listen to them, I pray for them. And I feel satisfaction. And God keeps on pulling me upwards, and I have vowed to follow. It's a beautiful path. And this path has made me realize that it's my time to let go of earthly things. I want to love higher. And that's where life begins, from my perspective. A new dawn in a new life, next to my loving Father.
And there is also still that old self in here also. The one that is mighty curious. "Enlightened Spirit?", "De-materialize?", "Inherit the stream of everlasting life?" "Create universes?" : Now that's something worth checking out! And if that can be done in a realm where there's no suffering, no pain. Together with all intensely loving spirits. Then it's a real easy choice for me (and my wife). We're going. :happy dog:

[Valerie Villars]

I have to confess something. I've been feeling guilty about it all day, since yesterday.

I always loved Jesus.I just loved everything he stood for and was in awe of his bravery and pertinent rebelliousness; his strength, peace and utter dedication to his mission.

I used to pray a lot to him and God. I mostly would just say good morning and thank you and I love you. I never asked for anything when I prayed. I always prayed for other people.

Well, I did get Christ consciousness. I'm not saying I'm Christ. Just that I got that consciousness. But with that, I got attacked by darkness, too. There was light and dark.

Anyway, the power of all of it scared the **** out of me. I'm just being honest.

What I'm trying to say is I feel I was a hypocrite when I didn't take up for Jesus. I abhor hypocrites. I do love Jesus very much. ****, I'm crying.

[Words of Joy]

"John 14:6 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Surely nobody actually believes this? Unfortunately, many people do...

I do, though with a little perspective. I link this quote to the reason why I think he came: To show us the way to our Father. To show us the truth about our Father. To show us the way to life with our Father. And as he is the example sent to the earthly realm to show all this, he formulated the sentence from a first person perspective.

[Smell the Roses]

I have to confess something. I've been feeling guilty about it all day, since yesterday.

I always loved Jesus.I just loved everything he stood for and was in awe of his bravery and pertinent rebelliousness; his strength, peace and utter dedication to his mission.

I used to pray a lot to him and God. I mostly would just say good morning and thank you and I love you. I never asked for anything when I prayed. I always prayed for other people.

Well, I did get Christ consciousness. I'm not saying I'm Christ. Just that I got that consciousness. But with that, I got attacked by darkness, too. There was light and dark.

Anyway, the power of all of it scared the **** out of me. I'm just being honest.

What I'm trying to say is I feel I was a hypocrite when I didn't take up for Jesus. I abhor hypocrites. I do love Jesus very much. ****, I'm crying.

I am sure that Jesus loves you and takes it all in stride. It's hard to talk about Jesus these days, because some people who use his name stand for something totally opposite to his teaching. I mean even most U.S. Presidents other than Obama pretend to be Christians, and we know they have nothing to do with Jesus. Spiritual warfare is most active against those giving off the most light, so it's no surprise that you were attacked in that way.

[Words of Joy]

For me, "The Gospel of Thomas" is a truer representation of what Jesus is or was in that lifetime.

That is exactly the book I started reading to get to know Jesus, as I didn't want to touch the bible. Simply quotes from Jesus is what I recall. It was eye opening for me to see things pass by that I had experienced the same in my mind, from an ideal perspective, and also how sometimes he would go way over what I had set as an ideal. Simply beautiful.

[AutumnW]

I communicate with something that seems to be somewhere in the vicinity of inside my head, but it isn't "me". It's more like a "they" and they don't speak but they always seem to hear and respond in other ways that are deeply beneficial to me and or others in my sphere. I feel they represent Christian ideals and may be Guardian angels.

So in as much as I am in touch with them, I am paying homage to Christ and possibly Buddah too. I think?

[Words of Joy]

I want to reincarnate to help salvage the planet. There is a lot of work to be done that I cannot do in this current form. I am not ready to be a spirit yet. I have personality flaws I have yet to overcome.

Thanks for sharing regarding your desire to help salvage the planet. Lovely to see your appreciation and dedication to nature.

Regarding personality flaws. I've a load of those, still to overcome. But the beautiful thing is that once in Gods hands, he'll transform the person, getting rid of these flaws, bit by bit, but at steady pace. Wonderful to observe and undergo. Both for me and my wife, God is a great lovely help. God knows our flaws, has know them, and wants to help everyone to overcome them, if they let Him.

[AutumnW]

It's weird. I find so many people jumping through all kinds of hoops and creating tremendous obstacles for themselves when it is so simple. Just focus inward and quietly request help to change that which you loathe in yourself. It works. Direct it towards Christ, guardian angels, Buddah, God. I don't know if it matters. I find another thing that helps for certain situations is to state things very clearly and out loud and ask for divine guidance.

But I can't "pray". I can communicate with great respect and a certain amount of awe but praying seems like grovelling. And I think this is unnecessary, not because I feel above grovelling but more that I can't respect any invisible force that would require it. The invisible realm I am drawn to isn't populated by egotistical tyrants and bullies.

[Bill Ryan]

But the beautiful thing is that once in Gods hands, he'll transform the person, getting rid of these flaws, bit by bit, but at steady pace.

Well, you may not have crafted that sentence quite accurately, though I do think I know what you were trying to say.

You DO have to do the work yourself. He might help a little, but essentially God would agree that it's all your responsibility. :)

Every choice you make, with the free will that you have. That's the whole idea.

[AutumnW]

I have to confess something. I've been feeling guilty about it all day, since yesterday.

I always loved Jesus.I just loved everything he stood for and was in awe of his bravery and pertinent rebelliousness; his strength, peace and utter dedication to his mission.

I used to pray a lot to him and God. I mostly would just say good morning and thank you and I love you. I never asked for anything when I prayed. I always prayed for other people.

Well, I did get Christ consciousness. I'm not saying I'm Christ. Just that I got that consciousness. But with that, I got attacked by darkness, too. There was light and dark.

Anyway, the power of all of it scared the **** out of me. I'm just being honest.

What I'm trying to say is I feel I was a hypocrite when I didn't take up for Jesus. I abhor hypocrites. I do love Jesus very much. ****, I'm crying.

That's such a sad thing, isn't it? And is it over now, the terrors you went through? It seems like it was some kind of test to break your spirit, divert you from your path.

[Smell the Roses]

I communicate with something that seems to be somewhere in the vicinity of inside my head, but it isn't "me". It's more like a "they" and they don't speak but they always seem to hear and respond in other ways that are deeply beneficial to me and or others in my sphere. I feel they represent Christian ideals and may be Guardian angels.

So in as much as I am in touch with them, I am paying homage to Christ and possibly Buddah too. I think?

Guardian Angels, such a beautiful concept and reality. My children have this prayer hanging in their room. We can all use a little assistance.
https://www.catholicfaithstore.com/Inventory/CatholicFaith/10/PicVq8mAO.jpg

[AutumnW]

Jesus’ path to enlightenment (ending reincarnation)

Why would one not want to reincarnate?

That's exactly like saying that one wants to go to sleep at night and then not wake up to another day.

Personally, I'm looking forward to tomorrow. There are already some things I've planned to do.

And I'm looking forward to my next life, too. :)

I have absolutely no desire to reincarnate here again. I read in another post you made how you are looking forward to coming back here again and again because this is where the fun is, and honestly I was surprised.

I think I may have used the wrong word! My apologies. Let me try to explain a little better, but I'm not trying to convince anything of anything. Just sharing a personal attitude and approach to life.

For me, 'fun' is NOT superficial partying, going to movies, eating too much chocolate cake, or watching soap operas on TV.

'Fun' =


Communing with nature
Playing with my dog
Enjoying serene, deep and meaningful connections with [many!] old friends
Tackling challenges, solving problems, and being creative
Learning as much as possible about as much as I possibly can
Developing skills and achieving goals
Helping others in any way I can
Recovering my long-term memories about who I really am
Understanding how to be a spiritual being in a mortal body.

:flower:

Oh come on Bill, everybody knows eating chocolate cake is a holy sacrament! It gives me a sense of deep joy and fills my heart with meaning:bowing:

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Merry Mom, that is truly sweet but if I approached my guardian angels or guides in that manner that'd be confused! They aren't used to it!;)

[Valerie Villars]

I have to confess something. I've been feeling guilty about it all day, since yesterday.

I always loved Jesus.I just loved everything he stood for and was in awe of his bravery and pertinent rebelliousness; his strength, peace and utter dedication to his mission.

I used to pray a lot to him and God. I mostly would just say good morning and thank you and I love you. I never asked for anything when I prayed. I always prayed for other people.

Well, I did get Christ consciousness. I'm not saying I'm Christ. Just that I got that consciousness. But with that, I got attacked by darkness, too. There was light and dark.

Anyway, the power of all of it scared the **** out of me. I'm just being honest.

What I'm trying to say is I feel I was a hypocrite when I didn't take up for Jesus. I abhor hypocrites. I do love Jesus very much. ****, I'm crying.

That's such a sad thing, isn't it? And is it over now, the terrors you went through? It seems like it was some kind of test to break your spirit, divert you from your path.

Well, the power of the good stuff was very overwhelming too. I just didn't know people could experience that in a human form.

I was just giggling last night, when I realized that was exactly what the darkness was trying to do. It dawned on me last night what an obvious and bullying thing to try and do. It's a hell of a thing to be disavowed of all you thought to be true.

Feeling stronger every day...............

[Words of Joy]

Just add this to your perspective.

(4:157) And their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

(4:171) O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about God except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of God and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in God and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, God is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is God as Disposer of affairs.

Ancient scriptures that clarify and admit the position of Jesus, but strongly oppose their misunderstanding of the messenger and the symbol of cross that was a pagan symbol never a symbol revealed to the messenger.

Thank you for adding this perspective. I have given this exact point a lot of thought. Wasn't easy this one. And the cross was introduced later, I think by the Romans, not sure. Though before that Christians had the fish as a symbol.

Please allow me to provide my perspective and what I have been thinking about. Basic question was: Prophet or Son of God? Simply a man that was born, that received the holy Spirit (Spirit of God), or born through Divine conception and then later received the holy Spirit?

To tackle these questions for myself I did not rely on scripture only. I wanted also to understand it through life. So I started looking into Jesus' impact in current time. I looked into healings in his name. I looked into exorcisms in his name. In those searches I started to see truth in his authority at least here on earth and the earthly spiritual realm. That's when I became open to the idea of Jesus not only being a prophet. Yes prophet, as he was bringing the word of God, though more than that I came to believe.

Though for me the whole divine conception of Mary by the holy Spirit idea was still a stretch for me to accept. I wasn't able to justify that based on experience. Until I gave my life in the hands of God (in Jesus' name) and prayed for the holy Spirit to come into my life. And right then and there the holy Spirit came into my body. Such energy, such power, such enormous feelings of happiness, that made me not want to move anything as to not disturb the strong never before experienced energy flow I felt coming into my body. This energy did work on my heart directly at that moment. It changed my heart. The holy Spirit changed my heart, and my head. I have changed, my heart has changed. I feel more, there's more emotion, compassion, more drive. And that experience is what changed my perspective on possibilities. The ease of how my heart was changed and how my brain was changed. Suddenly it became clear to me that conception by the holy Spirit is definitely an option. And from there on I'm a believer of the Divine conception.

As far as Jesus being the Son of God, yes or no; there are different ways of looking at this, and I will provide my current believes on this. As conception could've been done by the holy Spirit, the possibility of Jesus being the Son of God also became a possibility, as the holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, being the Father of the baby. Couple this with the current authority of Jesus in this earthly realm (and according to the bible also the Heavenly realm) and I truly see the possibility of Jesus being the Son of God.
I'll give another perspective. There are different verses in the bible that speak of the children of God. Namely the persons that have the Spirit of God in them. Those that are to be resurrected, like I also believe Jesus has been, by the Spirit of God. Here's a verse that shows this. Jesus' words:
Luke 20:34-35 34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection."
And because I believe the power of the Spirit of God can possibly conceive, I also believe it can possibly resurrect. I believe that to be possible. And I believe that is also what happened. So looking at Jesus' quote he also belongs to the group of children of God.

To me nothing is more convincing than personal experience. And based on what I experienced I came to believe. Scriptures are interesting and can be helpful, but for me proof comes from experience.

[Words of Joy]

Thank you everyone replying in this thread. I only have limited free hours, as I'm also working 40 hours a week, but will try to catch up and respond here and there. God bless.:flower:

[Smell the Roses]

[/COLOR]Merry Mom, that is truly sweet but if I approached my guardian angels or guides in that manner that'd be confused! They aren't used to it!;) I mentioned it was a child's prayer. You are free to do whatever you want. I happen to like the image.

[Words of Joy]

But the beautiful thing is that once in Gods hands, he'll transform the person, getting rid of these flaws, bit by bit, but at steady pace.

Well, you may not have crafted that sentence quite accurately, though I do think I know what you were trying to say.

You DO have to do the work yourself. He might help a little, but essentially God would agree that it's all your responsibility. :)

Every choice you make, with the free will that you have. That's the whole idea.

You're right Bill, with help from God. Missed that word. Do have to do the work, and it's not always easy, but God, I experience, is actively helping to make it more bearable while working on it.

And yes completely with free will. In my case my free will is to serve God, so He can put me where he thinks would be beneficial.

[5th]

"John 14:6 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Surely nobody actually believes this? Unfortunately, many people do...

I do, though with a little perspective. I link this quote to the reason why I think he came: To show us the way to our Father. To show us the truth about our Father. To show us the way to life with our Father. And as he is the example sent to the earthly realm to show all this, he formulated the sentence from a first person perspective.

I have no interest in any Father - that sounds too much like being continually inferior and being a child that needs guidance. I am responsible for myself and what use is there in being 'helped' or told what to do? Personal evolution is not about following a set of rules. You can't get to 'the kingdom of heaven' by blindly doing what you think your Father wants (specially as that was written almost two thousand years ago by people who had an interest in control). The Muslims have the same belief but different rules as do all religions and they all believe they are right simply because they've been brainwashed by their culture from childhood (or fallen under it's spell later in life).

I prefer to go by personal experience, intuition and meditation and find the way for myself. Do you have any memory of times before you were born? All power to you if this is your stage of development but there are higher stages. To think that we need some third party intermediary is to give away your power and become a slave. That said, Jesus did introduce many beneficial things into the belief system of the western world.

[greybeard]

Depends what you are looking for.
An enlightened teacher points to the Truth not him or herself.
If I wanted to learn to play golf then I would go to a professional--one who had done the course--so to speak.
If I really want enlightenment then I listen to those who are.
They all say--be still, be quiet. (meditation)
There is a transfer of energy in their presence --it just happens--that's my personal experience.

Chris

[Ron Mauer Sr]

I suspect that we all are extensions of Source energy on Prime Creator's endless journey of creation and self discovery. That includes people we may not like. We play in a multidimensional chess game.

I had a dream that I was watching a play, moving around in the audience to observe from different perspectives. Suddenly I realized that I was also the actors on stage and the playwright.

In this universe we choose to give our power away or claim it. When we feel inspired, we are aligned with Source. When we have respectful discussions of different viewpoints, new thoughts are born that expand all that is.

[Sadieblue]

Even though I am not of any religion the teachings of Jesus have been of great help and an inspiration to me

Surrender, devotion and love the greatest aids on the path to Enlightenment.
Surrender to what is, you could call it acceptance--
Devotion to Realization of the Self.
Love of the Divine

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
Courage to change the things I can
And wisdom to know the difference"
Chris

Chris, this has been my motto most of my life.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
Courage to change the things I can
And wisdom to know the difference"

[Sadieblue]

I have to confess something. I've been feeling guilty about it all day, since yesterday.

I always loved Jesus.I just loved everything he stood for and was in awe of his bravery and pertinent rebelliousness; his strength, peace and utter dedication to his mission.

I used to pray a lot to him and God. I mostly would just say good morning and thank you and I love you. I never asked for anything when I prayed. I always prayed for other people.

Well, I did get Christ consciousness. I'm not saying I'm Christ. Just that I got that consciousness. But with that, I got attacked by darkness, too. There was light and dark.

Anyway, the power of all of it scared the **** out of me. I'm just being honest.

What I'm trying to say is I feel I was a hypocrite when I didn't take up for Jesus. I abhor hypocrites. I do love Jesus very much. ****, I'm crying.

Awww Valerie, you have touched my tear ducts as well.
Thank you for loving Jesus.
Seems when we have the Christ consciousness, the dark side always tries to
steer us from our path, but greater is He that is in Us, than he that is in the world.

[Dennis Leahy]

...
'Fun' =



Communing with nature
Playing with my dog
Enjoying serene, deep and meaningful connections with [many!] old friends
Tackling challenges, solving problems, and being creative
Learning as much as possible about as much as I possibly can
Developing skills and achieving goals
Helping others in any way I can
Recovering my long-term memories about who I really am
Understanding how to be a spiritual being in a mortal body.


:flower:
Damn! You're one of the reincarnation travel agents to get people to come back here, aren't you!

[Words of Joy]

I have to confess something. I've been feeling guilty about it all day, since yesterday.

I always loved Jesus.I just loved everything he stood for and was in awe of his bravery and pertinent rebelliousness; his strength, peace and utter dedication to his mission.

I used to pray a lot to him and God. I mostly would just say good morning and thank you and I love you. I never asked for anything when I prayed. I always prayed for other people.

Well, I did get Christ consciousness. I'm not saying I'm Christ. Just that I got that consciousness. But with that, I got attacked by darkness, too. There was light and dark.

Anyway, the power of all of it scared the **** out of me. I'm just being honest.

What I'm trying to say is I feel I was a hypocrite when I didn't take up for Jesus. I abhor hypocrites. I do love Jesus very much. ****, I'm crying.

Thank you for sharing Valerie. I recognize what you're saying. I have multiple accounts of spiritual harassment, and two attacks. I'm thankful Christ (holy Spirit) showed me to call upon Him in the name of Jesus and ask for protection. It helped me with the two attacks. It felt like the spirits that attacked tried to enter me or something. My head felt under a lot of pressure. When I call upon Christ in the name of Jesus, it came to help directly and I could feel pressure relief. It was confronting. But the experience made me stronger in faith. For my wife it has been harder. Often as soon as I go to work she gets attacked. Sometimes she'll be unable to move. She had blankets pulled off her. She also is so glad to have Christ in her life now. Though still often she needs to command them to go in Jesus' name.

These are not the easiest things to deal with/process. Though I can say, before Jesus & Christ were in our lives, it was more difficult as sometimes we'd feel helpless.

I know Jesus & God understand your situation and reaction. They will always be there for you when you're ready. Be well and God bless.

[Words of Joy]

It's weird. I find so many people jumping through all kinds of hoops and creating tremendous obstacles for themselves when it is so simple. Just focus inward and quietly request help to change that which you loathe in yourself. It works. Direct it towards Christ, guardian angels, Buddah, God. I don't know if it matters. I find another thing that helps for certain situations is to state things very clearly and out loud and ask for divine guidance.

But I can't "pray". I can communicate with great respect and a certain amount of awe but praying seems like grovelling. And I think this is unnecessary, not because I feel above grovelling but more that I can't respect any invisible force that would require it. The invisible realm I am drawn to isn't populated by egotistical tyrants and bullies.

I didn't know what groveling meant. Thanks for that word and your experience. I understand what your saying and I agree. I felt uncomfortable at first, not knowing how to communicate properly. I didn't want to act inferior. I wanted to be equal. So I told God, I needed to grow in communication and feeling for Him. Respect is something I will try to give from the start, but it helps if I feel it's being answered, and shows it deserves the respect. I'm now at a point where it feels more like talking. And I have made it a habit to start with thanking for what I see in my life that feels like coming from Him. Just like I would thank anyone that would help me. Then I will share what I've noticed, what I wish for someone or in a certain situation. Then when I see it comes true, I'll be thankful. I communicate what I feel is deserved given earlier prayers and situations. And where at first I wasn't praying for myself I now do also pray for myself. This makes me even more aware of what aspects suddenly start changing. One could argue "It's you making the change yourself" And to a certain degree that may be the case. Though experiencing some mighty situations, that have not been experienced before, when I was influencing and changing my life before Christ was in my life, have made me come to see that there is a consciousness working to help, provide insight and support me. And this is not something that is just slightly sensible. On the contrary and I'm very impressed.

[Bill Ryan]

...
'Fun' =


Communing with nature
Playing with my dog
Enjoying serene, deep and meaningful connections with [many!] old friends
Tackling challenges, solving problems, and being creative
Learning as much as possible about as much as I possibly can
Developing skills and achieving goals
Helping others in any way I can
Recovering my long-term memories about who I really am
Understanding how to be a spiritual being in a mortal bod

:flower:
Damn! You're one of the reincarnation travel agents to get people to come back here, aren't you!

You bet! :Party:

http://projectavalon.net/Your_Planet_Needs_You.jpg

[greybeard]

The ego is a separation device and will endeavour to thwart all attempts to be "know" God.
Pray, surrender--Thy will be done.
You must be joking, I dont need you, I can make it on my own, says the ego.

Oh yeah You make plans and God laughs.
Without the Divine there would be no you, no life.
If nothing else appreciate and respect this life, this opportunity for enlightenment.
Just a suggestion--smiling.

Interesting thread-- thanks
Chris

[Words of Joy]

Depends what you are looking for.
An enlightened teacher points to the Truth not him or herself.
If I wanted to learn to play golf then I would go to a professional--one who had done the course--so to speak.
If I really want enlightenment then I listen to those who are.
They all say--be still, be quiet. (meditation)
There is a transfer of energy in their presence --it just happens--that's my personal experience.

Chris

In silence is where I find God. A lot of people (at least here in the Netherlands, but undoubtedly also in many other places) have a tight schedule. Especially when someone is a parent and also works (which is almost the norm here in the Netherlands). Here a lot of people hardly take time to just be still, to be able to receive. Constantly online. Work. School. Friends. Sports. Hobbies. TV. Going out.
The Spirit is showing me to build in moments of silence. I've learned that's the main way of communication from His side. I have my pen and my notepad next to me when I'm in my silent moments. Great things happen during those times: Insights, calls for help for someone, comfort, happiness. I'm liking and appreciating it more and more.

[petra]

Jesus’ path to enlightenment (ending reincarnation)
Why would one not want to reincarnate?

That's exactly like saying that one wants to go to sleep at night and then not wake up to another day.

Personally, I'm looking forward to tomorrow. There are already some things I've planned to do.

And I'm looking forward to my next life, too.


I certainly don't. I could say why..... but it's not nice.

I'd be content with going to sleep and not waking up. I used to be afraid I'd go to sleep and not wake up (ie: gettin' killed in my sleep), so I had insomnia for three days! But I'm not afraid of that anymore, now it sounds kinda nice (Mmmmmm... rest!)

[TomKat]

Slobbe, you might want to check out Peter Novak's book about division of consciousness. It has a decidedly Christian perspective on reincarnation that makes a lot of sense.

[Words of Joy]

Slobbe, you might want to check out Peter Novak's book about division of consciousness. It has a decidedly Christian perspective on reincarnation that makes a lot of sense.

Thank you so much! I wasn't aware of the work of Peter Novak. I read some reviews on Amazon right after reading your recommendation. Someone said in this review (https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3B4040Y6LU759/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1571740538):"Christ appears to have been the first earthly being to successfully integrate the soul and spirit;" I felt the holy Spirit dart me with energy on this sentence. Happy to learn this! I didn't know. Thanks for this present! I'll be looking further into this.

Also quickly had a look at one of the other books (The Lost Secret of Death: Our Divided Souls and the Afterlife & Original Christianity) reviews and felt the Spirit here:
"Christ is introduced as the "mediator" of consciousness." in this review (https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RJT4RVT8PGSHJ/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1571743243)

Had a look at the third book about the gospel of Thomas and found the author's review at the bottom (https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RH5CWGF9N2H0Y/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0073U64DC). Didn't feel anything there.

[Words of Joy]

The ego is a separation device and will endeavour to thwart all attempts to be "know" God.
Pray, surrender--Thy will be done.
You must be joking, I dont need you, I can make it on my own, says the ego.

Oh yeah You make plans and God laughs.
Without the Divine there would be no you, no life.
If nothing else appreciate and respect this life, this opportunity for enlightenment.
Just a suggestion--smiling.

Interesting thread-- thanks
Chris

I agree Chris, ego plays a big role in this. Trying to assassinate my ego was one of the best choices I made ever. My ego used to be quite big. E.g. when Yehova's Witnesses came to my door or stop me on the street, I would overwhelm them with knowledge, to a point they would give up, and I would feel proud afterwards. Totally content with myself thinking I had it all figured out. I now know what a fool I was. Not saying Yehova's Witness is the path, though acknowledging that I had an incomplete perspective. It hurt me when I came to that insight. Ashamed of my behavior in hindsight. It gave me more determination to keep the ego aside. I'm not fully there yet, work in progress, but like to think I'm heading in the right direction.
Not sure God laughs when disregarded. I'm inclined to think He'll be patiently awaiting knowing that at some point a spirit/soul will understand that life is more satisfying with Him, than without. Might take eons. God has time.

[Words of Joy]

Jesus’ path to enlightenment (ending reincarnation)
Why would one not want to reincarnate?

That's exactly like saying that one wants to go to sleep at night and then not wake up to another day.

Personally, I'm looking forward to tomorrow. There are already some things I've planned to do.

And I'm looking forward to my next life, too.


I certainly don't. I could say why..... but it's not nice.

I'd be content with going to sleep and not waking up. I used to be afraid I'd go to sleep and not wake up (ie: gettin' killed in my sleep), so I had insomnia for three days! But I'm not afraid of that anymore, now it sounds kinda nice (Mmmmmm... rest!)

I think a lot of people share that feeling. I know my mother does. She tried to stop life on multiple occasions. Life on earth is not experienced as a dance under the moonlight, a stroll on the beach or a game of football with the family (figuratively speaking) be everyone. Millions of people feel trapped in their situation, whether lonely, under medication, addicted, in a bad relationship, overworked, or whatever else situation and don't always see a solution to their situation. If one has the idea to end life, then I suggest to consider to turn to Jesus for help. Pray in his name, open the heart and speak to him. Ask him to help you. My wife had a problem with infected eyes. It kept her awake during the night, in agonizing pain, crying. Night after night. We both were in despair because of this. Physically exhausted, mentally desperate after sleepless nights and doctor's visits that didn't find a solution to the problem. In her desperation my wife took the advice of a friend that asked her whether she had tried praying to Jesus for help. She did so, as she (nor I) was unable to think of any other solution, as the problem had lasted three years and had tried everything we could think of. Herbs, alternative treatments, doctors, a ****load of different medications. All didn't help. That's why finally she prayed. From then on her life got better step by step. We were both so happy about it. Don't ever think there's no where to go than out of this life (not meant to you personally Petra, though in general). And once we found Jesus, we started loving life again. That's why we are grateful. To experience change on so many different levels, that previously was unthinkable. Just grateful. And then to think about having to go through another life with possibly a different consciousness, and more possible sufferings... Been there, done that... :stop: Enough. Everyone can have his or her choice to come back here (or on a different planet), but not anymore for us. We have different yearnings and plans. We are outta here. :flypig:

[Bubu]

Debating the truth of religion with a 'true believer' is a waste of time. I have Muslim friends who are quite broad minded, very tolerant and intelligent but hold the most brainwashed beliefs that cannot be shaken. In fact, they say I am more truly Muslim than most Muslims and hope that I convert to the faith eventually! The same applies to Christians.

But perhaps it's not a complete waste of time as one day they may see that their belief system is at a very low level and a much better one exists.

Yep, there is absolutely no point in reasoning with someone whos belief is base on faith they are going to bombard you with quotes from the bible because to them its the absolute truth they have close their minds to any other possibilities. What I do is just talk casually about my belief against religions including on facebook where I now have 3 people giving me likes with rants against religion. as they say "lies repeated equals truth" which means that truth repeated...So its not hopeless.
My parents aunts uncles and everyone in the family is a devoted catholic. I use to be one thankfully I kept my my mind open always open.

[petra]

You bet! :Party:

http://projectavalon.net/Your_Planet_Needs_You.jpg

I both laughed and scoffed at this, sorry Bill! I made a "propaganda image" too ;-)

In regards to not wanting to reincarnate and why.. I think I can explain that without sounding like an ass.

Hypothetical situation. You're stuck on an island with nothing to do but play Mario Brother's. It's fun for a while, but eventually I imagine you getting to the point where you'd rather do nothing than play Mario Brother's any more. Maybe you'd like something more challenging, like Mortal Kombat (2 players!) or Call of Duty (oh snap lol!)

[wnlight]

@ Luke Holiday, I love your personal interpretation of the quote "I am the way ..." But I still believe that the original intent of the quote was the Roman intent to control humanity by insisting that people must follow the narrowly confined behaviors dictated by the "church."

[greybeard]

In the non duality book by Nasargadatta " I am That"
The meaning of "I am the way"could be taken as advice to discover what the "I"is.
That is the Self as in Self-realized.
Ramana Maharshi called this Self inquiry.

We can all agree that I exists.
Thats what we are--but most don't investigate enough to realize that I is always present and does not change.
It is the eternal life force which we are.
If you look at the teachings of Jesus with this in mind --perspective/understanding can change.
"Love thy brother as thy self" --there is no difference--same Self in non-duality.

Chris

[Alanantic]

I was raised a Christian and what I got from it is most Christians see Salvation as an end in itself. I wanted to know everything I could about "God", but they felt they had no reason to look further, since they were "saved". And, of course, there was no hope without that. From what I've studied about "Enlightenment/Self-realization, we already are "saved". We aren't these mortal creatures we inhabit, and when we discover the Truth, we find there's no "I" that needs to be saved, as what we are is simply pure awareness, itself.

[Words of Joy]

I was raised a Christian and what I got from it is most Christians see Salvation as an end in itself. I wanted to know everything I could about "God", but they felt they had no reason to look further, since they were "saved". And, of course, there was no hope without that. From what I've studied about "Enlightenment/Self-realization, we already are "saved". We aren't these mortal creatures we inhabit, and when we discover the Truth, we find there's no "I" that needs to be saved, as what we are is simply pure awareness, itself.

I sometimes worry about fellow Christians, to the level of having discussions with the pastor, who was telling me to chill. I know I can be quite the energy bomb (9 years army + athletics background + dominant father of which I have inherited some features), and indeed trying to be more relaxed and control emotions. But when I have the feeling something is off for worse, it hurts my heart nowadays. Thing is, I have the feeling holy Spirit is of great importance in spiritual growth. If I wasn't able to communicate with Him, I would not know how I would be able to determine what His plan with me is, what His thoughts are on different matters, how to receive the lessons as clearly as I do now. And I notice a lot of Christians just going about their own life, just being steady. Not having the holy Spirit in their lives. And it makes me worry about their future. And maybe I shouldn't but that's just what I feel and I feel crappy sitting around not acting on it. But on the other hand. And this is what keeps me confident about their future. The most important command: Love God and the people around you. So when looking at that, I do think we're good. Though agree that salvation is an important one, but not the goal. And from my perspective, a start.

[5th]

[QUOTE=Slobbe: The most important command: Love God and the people around you.[/QUOTE]

I fail to see any value in obeying a 'commandment' because that implies that you must do it and if you don't you will be punished (hell).

So, because I do what i am told rather than be punished that makes me a good person? We are even told to 'fear God'!

Apart from that, 'God' as a single omnipotent being who created the universe does not exist. God is a concept and the best description of that concept is that God is the sum total of the consciousness of the universe - and everything has consciousness, even a stone.

That's why 'God is within' because we are all a 'part' of God. Disconnection from this fact is what causes all the problems and suffering in the world including the divisions between religions (all of which demand that we worship some separate god through their priests).

I am God, you are God and so is everything in the universe. Once you realise that, religion and rules, commandments and organised worship are simply not needed. Once you realise that, you are able to fully understand from first hand perception that hurting somebody else is hurting yourself, hating others because they are different from you is hating yourself. Religion is divisive because it teaches separation and disconnection.

The universe wants expansion through experience and so there is value in experiencing life as a bigoted idiot maybe as much as experiencing life as a kind and wonderful person (that's why we are all equal). That said, the more we follow our true path the more we experience - and so the more valuable this is. To live a narrow, repetitive life causes less expansion. To learn, discover, evolve and grow spiritually (not follow rules) is more beneficial.

Talk to religious leaders and they paint a fine picture of tolerance, love and community but behind closed doors many are horrible people and the most religious countries in the world are the worst for women because all religions are made by men to give them power, superiority and control.

Oh and why do we only have to love 'the people around us', why not everyone (and animals)?

[Bubu]

@ Luke Holiday, I love your personal interpretation of the quote "I am the way ..." But I still believe that the original intent of the quote was the Roman intent to control humanity by insisting that people must follow the narrowly confined behaviors dictated by the "church."

and there goes another problem each one can and has own interpretation of each passage. You can turn twist and all and come up with more than a hundred for each.

[Words of Joy]

The most important command: Love God and the people around you.

I fail to see any value in obeying a 'commandment' because that implies that you must do it and if you don't you will be punished (hell).

So, because I do what i am told rather than be punished that makes me a good person? We are even told to 'fear God'!

Apart from that, 'God' as a single omnipotent being who created the universe does not exist. God is a concept and the best description of that concept is that God is the sum total of the consciousness of the universe - and everything has consciousness, even a stone.

That's why 'God is within' because we are all a 'part' of God. Disconnection from this fact is what causes all the problems and suffering in the world including the divisions between religions (all of which demand that we worship some separate god through their priests).

I am God, you are God and so is everything in the universe. Once you realise that, religion and rules, commandments and organised worship are simply not needed. Once you realise that, you are able to fully understand from first hand perception that hurting somebody else is hurting yourself, hating others because they are different from you is hating yourself. Religion is divisive because it teaches separation and disconnection.

The universe wants expansion through experience and so there is value in experiencing life as a bigoted idiot maybe as much as experiencing life as a kind and wonderful person (that's why we are all equal). That said, the more we follow our true path the more we experience - and so the more valuable this is. To live a narrow, repetitive life causes less expansion. To learn, discover, evolve and grow spiritually (not follow rules) is more beneficial.

Talk to religious leaders and they paint a fine picture of tolerance, love and community but behind closed doors many are horrible people and the most religious countries in the world are the worst for women because all religions are made by men to give them power, superiority and control.

Oh and why do we only have to love 'the people around us', why not everyone (and animals)?

Seeing commandment might indeed trigger a negative connotation. I would like to share my opinion that if one truly understands that love is the highest good, then that person will try and achieve the highest in love regardless, out of love for others. And in essence is what these commandments are about. An earthly perspective on this might block the understanding that God, who Himself has the highest love, has put in place universal justice, to help people learn about love. (and you're right this is about showing love to 'all people around you, everyone, even your enemies.) And that is where 'fear' comes into play. It is not for people who try and live lovingly on a universal level, but for those that don't want to evolve in universal love, but want to evolve in love as they please. And exactly there is where the disconnect with God comes in, as God has universal love. Not being universal love is not God. Would a parent be able to bring up good children without giving lessons? Imagine what would happen if those laws weren't in place.
If one is not able to transcend the Inferior/Superior, the slave/master perspective on this, then the person will remain from God, as the person is not all loving. The person chooses what to love. And that's where it falls short from Gods perspective: Not able to love all. That's what the commandment is about: love all. Once a person understands just that and is able to give itself up for universal love, that's where God will show Himself. And that is where one will experience God, or the Spirit of Him. And will learn just how gracious and loving He truly is. That's where He will deem a person worthy and will start treating the person as a God. Sharing knowledge, power, wisdom, love, for starters, which will expand later in the afterlife (or true life if you will). At that point He gives more than he asks. He has a lot of love to give. And the more a person, that is dedicated to universal love, experiences this, the more willing he/she becomes to show love back. Only thing He asks is have a heart for everyone and be assertive about it. Don't close eyes where there is suffering or a need. Help each other. Support each other.

It is very true and clear that religion has made a mess on this planet. Though we can't blame God for that. We do have sovereignty and the ability to make choices. Many people choose love for self. And are willing to hurt others because of that. And unfortunately for many, the organization of this love for self is strong. God has the ability to change this, but spirits/souls need to grow. And experience will help do that. And God knows this. We need to understand that we do live in a simulation, whether someone is able to grasp that or not. For God this is not a matter of life and death as in the earthly experience. And God is not in a hurry. Many people stay in their own personal earthly life perspective. Though God doesn't think like that. He has patience. We're talking eons. Strings of reincarnations.

I will not say following religion is a good thing. I try to stay aware of being controlled also (that's one reason I came to Avalon years ago). Don't want to be controlled by love for self, though I'm willing to serve universal love. And I will say God is good. That there are a lot of people not seeing this, I understand. One can look inside to get more perspective. "Do I love everything including God and willing to help where people are in need?" If the answer is no to some extend, then I understand one doesn't see a good God.

Regarding the animals. Good question. Have been pondering about that also. Personally I will treat animals with love also. Even the smallest creatures. Though I think, and I'm not too knowledgeable on this point, there is a spiritual/soul perspective on this. If anyone can contribute on this, that would be mightily appreciated.

[5th]

Excellent response Slobbe and Happy Chrstmas to you!

[Alanantic]

"Quote Posted by Alanantic (here)
The most important command: Love God and the people around you."

Nice sentiment, but I didn't post it. I'm not into "commands from God", nor "God", per se. Weird.

[5th]

"Quote Posted by Alanantic (here)
The most important command: Love God and the people around you."

Nice sentiment, but I didn't post it. I'm not into "commands from God", nor "God", per se. Weird.

LOL Sorry! Don't know how that happened - either a software malfunction or my brain malfunction.

I've corrected it as best I can.

[Alanantic]

"Quote Posted by Alanantic (here)
The most important command: Love God and the people around you."

Nice sentiment, but I didn't post it. I'm not into "commands from God", nor "God", per se. Weird.

LOL Sorry! Don't know how that happened - either a software malfunction or my brain malfunction.

I've corrected it as best I can.

Yeah, no prob. :-)

Another difference I see between Salvation and Enlightenment is the difference between belief and gnosis. Christ as "only" God's son must be believed in, whereas enlightenment is attained through direct Knowing; which is experienced without the mind or senses, and is the result of inquiry into the self, as Chris mentioned. The tricky part is "Life is but a Dream".

"The soul is undergoing a dream from which it must awake. This dream represents our association and identification with the world. The fact that it is described as being a dream means that whatever is in it has to be false. Nothing in a dream can be true. Waking up from that dream is the ultimate goal, Self-realization." -- The main theme of "Yoga Vasistha"

"Tell them I'm awake." -- Buddha

[greybeard]

Mystics are clear--the mind can not understand this, it has to be experiential.
We are the dreamer and the dreamed.
Form-formless--both and neither.
Avaita possibly says it all in one short phrase "One without a second"

The late Dr David R Hawkins in his books went into great detail on his experiences.
I was an avid reader---
He had great cd set--The Highest Level of Enlightenment"
Led me to go to Longbeach California to his Seminar--"Living the Prayer" I could not afford it but went anyway,
It was helpful to say the least.
When there is a commitment to know the Truth--life changes--whatis necessary comes--what is not goes.

Yogananda had a scarf stolen--he seemed upset--his devotees said "Dont worry, we will get you another"
He said " They left me with the responsibility of the gloves" which they did not take.

Through acceptance of what is--change comes about without--your interference, or desire to change it.
The expression comes to mind "Be careful what you wish for"

Chris