The problem with new UFO sightings

[Bill Ryan]

Hello, All: this is ABSOLUTELY NOT in any way critical of anyone reporting new UFO sightings on this thread. Some of them are really very interesting. But I'd just like to offer a few thoughts.

Over the years, there have been literally tens (maybe hundreds!) of thousands of sighting reports. They're known as 'cases'. Peter Davenport (from NUFORC, the National UFO Reporting Center (http://nuforc.org/index.html)), and of course MUFON, collect thousands between them every year.

But here's the question: What difference does it make?

I'm very critical of Tom DeLonge's To The Stars Academy, as many will know. But one thing that I do salute them for (actually, best articulated by Peter Levenda in several interviews) is their starting-point unquestioned assumption that UFOs are 100% real.

The whole thing kicks off from there, asking:So then what?

I totally agree with that approach. Grant Cameron, though I'm also critical of him in some aspects, actually states much the same thing. He says (my paraphrase):

"Look, we're not going to learn much, or learn much more, by endlessly analyzing photos of lights in the sky. We have to go to abductee and contactee reports to find out what's really happening here."
Veteran abduction researcher David Jacobs, who I strongly support, would agree. And to the above about contactee and abductee reports, I'd also add the evidence, such that it is, from crash retrievals. And from SOME military/intel whistleblowers.

It's as if we're all endlessly trying to prove that the sky really is blue. Listen, we KNOW it's blue.

But why is it blue? :)

[Forest Denizen]

Thank you, Bill, well said, as always.

I’ve felt this way for a while as well. These “objects/vehicles” are clearly real, but how to get beyond that simple fact to information of more substance?

Once in a while I am intrigued and briefly distracted by details given regarding these craft, but it has always been behavior (of pretty much everything) that I’m really interested in. Sometimes, the behavior of these objects as reported by observers, seems to provide a little more info regarding what they are doing here, but..

In order to really get at what’s going on, we’ve got to examine all the evidence provided by those who have been experiencing interactions with the occupants of many of these craft, both here in our dimension, and beyond as well..

I feel the same about Sasquatch, they are obviously “real,” but what are they??

My two cents.. :blushing:

[Valerie Villars]

I absolutely agree with your summation Bill.

The best way to tackle the whole phenomenon is to share our stories and just listen to one another without pointing fingers and calling people crazy.

I don't understand the whole obsession with crafts when the bigger, more complex part of the why is the actual contact people are having. If we simply tell our stories of contact, all of us, at some point we may have a coherent or semi coherent answer.

[5th]

Great point. I'm sure at least half the UFO sightings are planes or balloons and the real problem is that assuming some are genuine extra terrestrial craft they are never clear enough or proven genuine enough to change public opinion.

So what's the point in another year's worth of ten thousand fuzzy blobs shaking around in a video? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and so are UFOs.

These days special effects in films are more real than real life and all we have are fuzzy blobs? It's also interesting that 50 years ago, UFOs looked like they did in comics (old fashioned) and now they look like modern UFOs!

The value is more of a hobby and to keep enthusiasts content. Please, give me a sharp, high definition UFO, preferably with an alien stepping out and being interviewed...

[Bill Ryan]

Please, give me a sharp, high definition UFO, preferably with an alien stepping out and being interviewed...

Done. :thumbsup: (But alas, no alien!)

This photo was taken in Peru by an American friend of a friend, in 1960, when he was traveling in his 20s. He's now nearly 80 years old, and I corresponded with him a couple of years back to ask him a few more questions. It's absolutely real. There's an interesting thread about it here.


A very high-resolution UFO photo (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54537-A-very-high-resolution-UFO-photo/page3)

The point is: how many more photos do we need?

http://projectavalon.net/Peru_UFO_sm.jpg

http://projectavalon.net/Peru_UFO_close-up.jpg

The original high-resolution photo (5.3 Mb, my scan of the original which I was shown personally) can be downloaded here:

http://projectavalon.net/Peru_UFO.jpg

:focus:

[Did You See Them]

All reports of sightings - whether with clear pictures or not may seem trivial by now but perhaps patterns can still be derived from them hinting at possible intentions.

[ripple]

Please, give me a sharp, high definition UFO, preferably with an alien stepping out and being interviewed...

Done. :thumbsup: (But alas, no alien!)

This photo was taken in Peru by an American friend of a friend, in 1960, when he was traveling in his 20s. He's now nearly 80 years old, and I corresponded with him a couple of years back to ask him a few more questions. It's absolutely real. There's an interesting thread about it here.
:

The shame is that if one of the windows had been open your friend could have told us what they were shouting out in German .
I know you appreciate my underlying more serious point .

[Debra]

All reports of sightings - whether with clear pictures or not may seem trivial by now but perhaps patterns can still be derived from them hinting at possible intentions.

Yes, agree and might help to start identifying or delineating between different species out there. That would be a useful study as there is plenty of raw data available - shaky blobs and all - and also to set them up against faked or proven terrestrial examples to provide perspective.

[The Moss Trooper]

I've come to the same conclusion that Jacques Vallėe came to all those years ago.

Vallée proposes that there is a genuine UFO phenomenon, partly associated with a form of non-human consciousness that manipulates space and time. The phenomenon has been active throughout human history, and seems to masquerade in various forms to different cultures. In his opinion, the intelligence behind the phenomenon attempts social manipulation by using deception on the humans with whom they interact.

Vallée also proposes that a secondary aspect of the UFO phenomenon involves human manipulation by humans. Witnesses of UFO phenomena undergo a manipulative and staged spectacle, meant to alter their belief system, and eventually, influence human society by suggesting alien intervention from outer space. The ultimate motivation for this deception is probably a projected major change of human society, the breaking down of old belief systems and the implementation of new ones.

Vallée states that the evidence, if carefully analyzed, suggests an underlying plan for the deception of mankind by means of unknown, highly advanced methods. Vallée states that it is highly unlikely that governments actually conceal alien evidence, as the popular myth suggests. Rather, it is much more likely that that is exactly what the manipulators want us to believe. Vallée feels the entire subject of UFOs is mystified by charlatans and science fiction. He advocates a stronger and more serious involvement of science in the UFO research and debate. Only this can reveal the true nature of the UFO phenomenon.

[thepainterdoug]

Hi Bill / Im a sky watcher and enjoy capturing things that somehow make themselves known to me. I have not been able to figure out if Im seeing them, or they're appearing for me?

Regardless , I say, why not share them? If i capture something here on the east coast and share it, and someone else captures a similar object somewhere else, I think that comparison may have some value.

I just enjoy knowing these unknowns are out there, whatever they may mean or be. Does it make a difference?? probably not, but not showing them, doesn't change anything either . cheers

[TrumanCash]

[I]"Look, we're not going to learn much, or learn much more, by endlessly analyzing photos of lights in the sky. We have to go to abductee and contactee reports to find out what's really happening here."

I certainly agree with this. I have been saying this for years. "UFO" sightings tell us very little if anything and so I don't even bother with checking out the latest "UFO" sightings. If we want to know what's going on and perhaps even why, then we need to focus on abductee/contactee experiences.

However, it needs to be said that abducting ETs not only create amnesia to block abduction memories they often cover up what actually occurred during the abduction by imposing false memories (also known as "screen memories") over the actual blocked memories. So if an abductee does start remembering the abduction, he or she will only remember the implanted false memory which usually portrays the abducting ETs as benevolent and that the experience was a "nice" one.

Thus there are many reports by abductees that their experience was a positive one when in actuality it was anything but positive. Therefore, it is imperative that one learn how to address these false implanted memories when working with abductees.

Another problem is the narrow scope of abduction research that will not go beyond societal belief systems to explore past life abductions, between lives abductions, time travel capabilities of ETs, etc. To do so limits the full context of the observed phenomena and therefore the ability to understand the "why" of abductions and contacts. I think that some researchers worry too much about their credibility in these regards. I think most of us want to know the truth about ET contacts so we would be best served if we leave the political correctness worries behind.

The "why" of abductions is dependent upon context. Therefore, we have to look at the big picture for the "why". Unfortunately, the abducting ETs themselves have dumbed us down with their deceptions and secrecy over thousands of years so we don't see the big picture. This is intentional. They don't want us to know. But as I discovered it is indeed knowable.

I think what is needed is more independent researchers using the same simple tools that I have used to reveal a much bigger picture. I have long since retired from abduction research but I am willing to help someone learn these simple non-hypnotic methods if they seriously want to become an abduction researcher.

[5th]

Done. :thumbsup: (But alas, no alien!)



OK, possibly a 'real' UFO but that's the 60's comic book style and unlikely to be alien in origin!

[The Moss Trooper]

I've always found the pictures from the Turkish UFO event to be pretty mind-boggling.

39659

39661

[5th]

I've always found the pictures from the Turkish UFO event to be pretty mind-boggling.


Sorry but I need more than a blur which only looks like an alien because it's in this thread for my mind to be boggled.

Now, if it were in a brussel sprout thread...

[The Moss Trooper]

I've always found the pictures from the Turkish UFO event to be pretty mind-boggling.


Sorry but I need more than a blur which only looks like an alien because it's in this thread for my mind to be boggled.

Now, if it were in a brussel sprout thread...

Google is your friend!

[Tintin]

Anybody interested in the abductee phenomenon would do very well to carefully listen to Karla Turner's "Voices of the Taken" (http://avalonlibrary.net/Karla_Turner_Voices_of_the_Taken.mp3) - recordings with four women who are simply and honestly sharing their experiences.

The sound quality isn't terribly good - it was recorded in the early 1990s. It's a great starting point for those newer to the abduction research area.

[Sunny-side-up]

More so nowadays the question is:

Where are they from, man made, Earth made (not human) ET or other dimension?

[shaberon]

The shame is that if one of the windows had been open your friend could have told us what they were shouting out in German .
I know you appreciate my underlying more serious point .

One of the stories I have heard personally was from Germany and must have been from the 70s. I can't remember if it was a disk or a bell, but it was doing its normal thing, hovering quietly. However, it was part of Halloween or Oktoberfest, right in the middle of a town festival, right beside a castle, and probably quite close to Rammstein. I tend to be open-minded towards a likely man-made craft.

With encounters, I am more skeptical. As a parallel, for instance the fey folk, clairvoyants sometimes say their real form is a ball of energy. It is the mind that dresses them up with the appearance of a gnome or other creature. And of course, these are sometimes credited with abductions as well. Without training, the brain is weak under these circumstances. In older cultures in the days of story telling, it was normal for people to visualize whatever was happening--if there were horses in the field, you saw the horses. This kind of ability is destroyed by television, etc.

The yeti has never been viewed as anything other than an astral being capable of materializing a form.

The underlying principle is that the astral plane will show you whatever you want, except, of course, the mind is likely full of millions of subconscious fears, and so more accurately it will show whatever is on your mind. Then it could either materialize or invisibly affect the physical world. So I can accept that the vast majority of planets are populated, but the interface is almost 100% unreliable, since we cannot even do this in our immediate environment. You'd be seeing and communicating with all the terrestrial ghosts, and other things, first. To me, the question is less "what's out there", than "what's right here". I cannot even answer this second part. I'm pretty sure there are several ghosts and elementals nearby, but actually, I have almost no sensitivity. One of our dogs got run over, and I kind of sensed him being around for about a year and a half, and now he is gone. That's as close as I got to seeing him. But if I had, it could have just been a good look at memory. If someone else saw it, they could have been seeing my memory.

It is like when the camera disproved the rope trick. Nothing happens, the guys are just standing there, and the rope is on the ground. That does not prevent a hundred people from testifying they witnessed the same gruesome chain of events. You would never learn a single thing from a hundred rope trick witnesses. That seems to be what is going on here, with a slightly different field of interest.

[5th]

Google is your friend!


It most certainly is not.

[thepainterdoug]

Crimson Horse B / was there ever a consensus on that Turkish sighting? I was always captivated by it. Then all sorts of counter comments came about it not being authentic or some mistaken ship on the seas in the distance. any final credible assessment ??

[Valerie Villars]

What makes my inexplicable encounters 100% real to me and not something I conjured up, is the fact that I never liked science fiction, knew nothing about extra terrestials or any of the common descriptions other than seeing grey aliens on the cover of the National Enquirer or a book or two, knew nothing about Jacques Vallee or Bill Ryan or anything in this field whatsoever, yet that is what I encountered during my experience.

The confusing language, riddles and behavior of the beings. I had a lengthy interaction with a Nordic and a broad daylight interaction with a tall white. How could they be thought forms if I had no concept of them to form them?

I couldn't figure out why black helicopters were showing up. I knew nothing about them till later.

How could all these things happen to me and happen to others too? Are we all having the same hallucination? I don't think so.

My experiences were just as real as me sitting here typing right now.

As to the why, my best intuitive guess is as follows.

To confuse me to somehow push me to a different level of understanding and awareness.

To get genetic material from me. To study me like one studies a plant or animal.

I was being tested and observed. But why?

[Did You See Them]

I've always found the pictures from the Turkish UFO event to be pretty mind-boggling.


Sorry but I need more than a blur which only looks like an alien because it's in this thread for my mind to be boggled.

Now, if it were in a brussel sprout thread...

How's this for an Italian sprout ?
http://real-ufos.com/wp-content/themes/real-ufos/gallery/aliens/alien-caponi-2.jpg

[The Moss Trooper]

I've always found the pictures from the Turkish UFO event to be pretty mind-boggling.


Sorry but I need more than a blur which only looks like an alien because it's in this thread for my mind to be boggled.

Now, if it were in a brussel sprout thread...

How's this for an Italian sprout ?
http://real-ufos.com/wp-content/themes/real-ufos/gallery/aliens/alien-caponi-2.jpg

Nah....... Looks more like a cabbage to me.

Not buying it!

:bigsmile:

[The Moss Trooper]

Crimson Horse B / was there ever a consensus on that Turkish sighting? I was always captivated by it. Then all sorts of counter comments came about it not being authentic or some mistaken ship on the seas in the distance. any final credible assessment ??

It has tried to be debunked several times, and by some pretty serious institutions, but still stands.

There is a great thread with some good research on Metabunk (https://www.metabunk.org/2008-ufo-footage-from-turkey.t9844/ that has some interesting findings for various aspects of the sighting, but none that encompass all of what came to pass.

There is also some great analysis here:

http://archivosovni2.blogspot.com

Still one of the best sightings of all time, in my opinion.

[mojo]

Hi Bill,
Nice post and relates to my question as to why they might be here. in this posting.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?105191-Why-might-ETs-be-visiting

Bill How to we get to the n ext level? We do have enough photographic and trace evidence. We should be asking why the govs are still hiding knowledge and how can we get to the next level of contact? If its through an experiencer I feel they need to offer more knowledge or insight to validate...cheers

[The Moss Trooper]

Hi Bill,
Nice post and relates to my question as to why they might be here. in this posting.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?105191-Why-might-ETs-be-visiting

Bill How to we get to the n ext level? We do have enough photographic and trace evidence. We should be asking why the govs are still hiding knowledge and how can we get to the next level of contact? If its through an experiencer I feel they need to offer more knowledge or insight to validate...cheers

What are your thoughts mojo?

You've had enough experiences of these things, you must have a personal hypothesis after all your years of studying this phenomena?

Regards.

[mojo]

Hi Crimson Horse Blanket,

Thanks for asking... as we seem to be on a hamster wheel always trying to prove UFOs through one more photo/video when there is a need for deeper understanding. In a thread many years ago I suggested allowing researchers and scientist the freedom to disclose their knowledge. Most had to sign non-disclosure agreements. Yet I still see the need for multi-prong approach such as more support in active cases and more effort over time as we humans have such short attention spans... and hold law makers accountable for answers...

[Bill Ryan]

Bill How do we get to the next level? We do have enough photographic and trace evidence. We should be asking why the govs are still hiding knowledge and how can we get to the next level of contact? If its through an experiencer I feel they need to offer more knowledge or insight to validate...cheers

Excellent question, of course.

There are two aspects to this, which are very different.


Helping the general public to become aware of the reality of the situation, and to take it seriously.
Helping the [very small!] amateur research community to understand in depth what the heck is really going on.

The general public will ONLY be persuaded by serious statements from authority figures. That means mainstream media, politicians, very high profile scientists (e.g. Michio Kaku, or Neil deGrass Tyson) or maybe religious leaders. No-one else. You and I won't make ANY difference to that.

As for the research community, I'm feeling more and more than we need to turn to abductees and contactees, and also remote viewing. And SOME claimed whistleblowers, but only if they're willing to go the regression / memory recall route as well. We're not going to get to read the secret files in the vaults of Wright-Patterson AFB, or anywhere else.

We've got all the important documents we're ever going to get. So, maybe we have to get the info another way.

[5th]

How's this for an Italian sprout ?



They don't look advanced enough to pilot a UFO.

In any case, modern special effects would be much more convincing, as do dead humans...

As I think Bill is trying to point out, there's no such thing as photographic proof. Too 'real' and it's fake, not 'real enough' and it's fake.

[Franny]

A few years ago I read something (purported to be) by Michio Kaku commenting on GMOs.

It was more of less this: When scientists or politicians report that GMOs are safe, they are either very stupid or lying.

I wonder where that might leave Michio Kaku, Neal deGrass Tyson, and I'd like to add Carl Sagan, on the UFO subject.

[conk]

I've always found the pictures from the Turkish UFO event to be pretty mind-boggling.


Sorry but I need more than a blur which only looks like an alien because it's in this thread for my mind to be boggled.

Now, if it were in a brussel sprout thread...There is a lot more than a blur to this story. No, Google is not your friend, but you can find the story using it. Or you can just watch "Turkey UFO" videos on YouTube. The videos have been analyzed by a major university and determined not to appear altered or fakes. I believe this is the most startling bit of evidence for ET life yet seen.

[AriG]

But here's the question: What difference does it make?

I'm very critical of Tom DeLonge's To The Stars Academy, as many will know. But one thing that I do salute them for (actually, best articulated by Peter Levenda in several interviews) is their starting-point unquestioned assumption that UFOs are 100% real.



Bill,

The deluge of information being what it is, and through serendipity, I have been thinking about Tom Delonge's "testimony" all morning.

I had the misfortune to have several hours of windscreen time yesterday and chose to listen to FTB's two year old interview with this "celebrity" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzLqBx5lN8Y Needless to say, the drive was excruciating. I found Delonge to be disingenuous, ill informed, emotionally retarded, and potentially a mouthpiece for the system.

A few observations:

* His credibility falls into question when he relies upon his subjective personal testimony as the only "evidence" for his diatribes. That same credibility falls further into dubious status when he mentions his source as a very top level person in a top level organization, but when asked if this person was military, refused to acknowledge. However, as he became more and more worked up over this material, he, in an apparent bi-polar meltdown, admitted that this guy was a 4 star general.

* He states " UFOs are bad". Full stop. Based upon? His handlers clearly could not coach him to discuss the finer nuances of a very complex and barely understood phenomenon.

* He states (and I will likely paraphrase) " Everyone likes to think that all government is bad. They (the shadow government) are there worrying about these things so we don't have to. So we can all go to the movies on Saturday night and enjoy our lives. You have no idea just how stressful it is to be the one in charge of making decisions and carrying the briefcase" (blah blah blah)

* He states that the reason we all rely upon fossil fuels is for funding black projects....

* Toward the end of the interview, he shares two ridiculously unbelievable stories:

1. He closely witnessed a stranger commit suicide by jumping from a bridge. This person told him that he was perfectly OK with the act he was about to commit. DeLonge states that it was the singular most stressful moment of his life and yet, for what ever reason, he had never spoken about it to anyone. Jimmy Church was the first person to ever his his "story".

2. That his brother personally witnessed a Yeti sighting only days after he himself had been searching for a Yeti. He told the story as if he and his buddies were out on some random drunken weekend. Surprisingly, the brother's photos were remarkably clear. He then ended that story with "Yeah, you should all come check out my instagram stuff, there's all kinds of crazy stuff taking place there". Don't know about everyone else here, but if my brother had truly seen a Yeti, it would be discussed with reverence and curiosity. Not frat boy speak.

Not only is this Delonge a pathological liar, he is disseminating disinformation with the acknowledgement from Jimmy Church that he is a a prime position to be influencing a huge demographic of "fans" of his grunge crap from the 90's. In my opinion, he's a tool.

Yes, he is correct, UFOs are 100% real. I have seen two. But by no means does that make me qualified to usurp the good work that has been done by real researchers and real journalists who are working very diligently to promote disclosure. And this is what's wrong with Tom Delonge. He thinks he is qualified to speak about an issue based upon a supposed conversation he had with one person. He knows NOTHING. He is ill informed, poorly educated, and a distraction. And I absolutely cannot stand the tone of his voice. My ears are still ringing.

How do we move on and delve deeper into why UFOs exist versus the fact that they do? Stop wasting time with hangers on and wanna be's who have shown up late to a very sophisticated cocktail party in their underwear. People who are clearly trying to ride a wave that they think will result in a big pay day. Ironically, his company is on the verge of bankruptcy. Serves him right. Blanking government mouthpiece propagandist!

[The Moss Trooper]

But here's the question: What difference does it make?

I'm very critical of Tom DeLonge's To The Stars Academy, as many will know. But one thing that I do salute them for (actually, best articulated by Peter Levenda in several interviews) is their starting-point unquestioned assumption that UFOs are 100% real.



Bill,

The deluge of information being what it is, and through serendipity, I have been thinking about Tom Delonge's "testimony" all morning.

I had the misfortune to have several hours of windscreen time yesterday and chose to listen to FTB's two year old interview with this "celebrity" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzLqBx5lN8Y Needless to say, the drive was excruciating. I found Delonge to be disingenuous, ill informed, emotionally retarded, and potentially a mouthpiece for the system.

A few observations:

* His credibility falls into question when he relies upon his subjective personal testimony as the only "evidence" for his diatribes. That same credibility falls further into dubious status when he mentions his source as a very top level person in a top level organization, but when asked if this person was military, refused to acknowledge. However, as he became more and more worked up over this material, he, in an apparent bi-polar meltdown, admitted that this guy was a 4 star general.

* He states " UFOs are bad". Full stop. Based upon? His handlers clearly could not coach him to discuss the finer nuances of a very complex and barely understood phenomenon.

* He states (and I will likely paraphrase) " Everyone likes to think that all government is bad. They (the shadow government) are there worrying about these things so we don't have to. So we can all go to the movies on Saturday night and enjoy our lives. You have no idea just how stressful it is to be the one in charge of making decisions and carrying the briefcase" (blah blah blah)

* He states that the reason we all rely upon fossil fuels is for funding black projects....

* Toward the end of the interview, he shares two ridiculously unbelievable stories:

1. He closely witnessed a stranger commit suicide by jumping from a bridge. This person told him that he was perfectly OK with the act he was about to commit. DeLonge states that it was the singular most stressful moment of his life and yet, for what ever reason, he had never spoken about it to anyone. Jimmy Church was the first person to ever his his "story".

2. That his brother personally witnessed a Yeti sighting only days after he himself had been searching for a Yeti. He told the story as if he and his buddies were out on some random drunken weekend. Surprisingly, the brother's photos were remarkably clear. He then ended that story with "Yeah, you should all come check out my instagram stuff, there's all kinds of crazy stuff taking place there". Don't know about everyone else here, but if my brother had truly seen a Yeti, it would be discussed with reverence and curiosity. Not frat boy speak.

Not only is this Delonge a pathological liar, he is disseminating disinformation with the acknowledgement from Jimmy Church that he is a a prime position to be influencing a huge demographic of "fans" of his grunge crap from the 90's. In my opinion, he's a tool.

Yes, he is correct, UFOs are 100% real. I have seen two. But by no means does that make me qualified to usurp the good work that has been done by real researchers and real journalists who are working very diligently to promote disclosure. And this is what's wrong with Tom Delonge. He thinks he is qualified to speak about an issue based upon a supposed conversation he had with one person. He knows NOTHING. He is ill informed, poorly educated, and a distraction. And I absolutely cannot stand the tone of his voice. My ears are still ringing.

How do we move on and delve deeper into why UFOs exist versus the fact that they do? Stop wasting time with hangers on and wanna be's who have shown up late to a very sophisticated cocktail party in their underwear. People who are clearly trying to ride a wave that they think will result in a big pay day. Ironically, his company is on the verge of bankruptcy. Serves him right. Blanking government mouthpiece propagandist!

Don't forget his keenness in offering to do "whatever he could" if Hillary needed his help!

Copies of his emails where he stated this are on another thread here somewhere. I just shook my head when I read them. He came across like a sycophantic puppy....... Sad.

[AriG]

Another thought on Bill's question about agreeing to agree and asking the big Why?

I am two years behind on even beginning to keep up with the noise ( as Bill has so astutely mentioned in numerous threads, its crazy out there).

What if... a thread was started as a vetting tool? Just a simple list (or even, dare I suggest..a spreadsheet) of whistleblowers, interviewees, abductees, etc, with an opportunity to vote yes, no or maybe on their legitimacy or validity? Maybe then, those who are interested, can focus on reliable information?

Not sure how laborious that would be, but I would really like to have a clear and concise list of information that is generally regarded as watch/read worthy. Wouldn't necessarily want to have to read volumes of personal opinions as to why a vote was given. Just that, for example 100 Avalonians agreed that "Individual X" is credible and worthy of attention?

Just thoughts. Thanks!

[petra]

It's as if we're all endlessly trying to prove that the sky really is blue. Listen, we KNOW it's blue.

But why is it blue? :)

I laughed. You can probably imagine my cynical and sarcastic answer :)
So following this, we ask, "Why have there been so many UFO sightings?"

Well, more people are paying attention - that's my guess.

The question which I ask quite often is "Why the F don't I see any of this stuff? Is something wrong with my eyes?". That's one theory - my other theory is that I'm in some kind of "alternate reality or realm" that doesn't have any aliens/ufo's in it

[mojo]

feeling more and more than we need to turn to abductees and contactees, and also remote viewing. And SOME claimed whistleblowers, but only if they're willing to go the regression / memory recall route as well.

Right on, turning to contactees and abductees would be a really solid direction, but seems tough for some reason. We can use history to guide us and in many cases people drop the ball or dont wish to act on new cases or follow up on old. There was the Italian Friendship case, Carlos Diaz case and Roger Liers trace evidence research and many others like Pete Peterson whom Bill has had the fortune to meet and learn from even others.and also has had his own experience. Regression is something that might unlock some puzzle pieces too.... Interesting in the CARLOS DIAZ case the stranger told Carlos his memories will tell him more in time...

[petra]

Whatever thing I am in contact with is very reassuring, but also really creepy! Maybe it's two things. Either way - I wouldn't trust ANY of it. Best to trust yourself imo, or if for any reason you can't trust yourself, trust that God isn't cruel.

[aoibhghaire]

Posted by Did You See Them (here)

"All reports of sightings - whether with clear pictures or not may seem trivial by now but perhaps patterns can still be derived from them hinting at possible intentions."

Deriving UFO patterns:

I had worked with another colleague back in the early 1990s on a scientific model based on patterns of UFOs around the Earth as possible exogenous probes in our space time. This was based on 13,000 sightings going back to the 1880s.

After some failures a successful model proved that some UFOs were using specific orbital tracks around the Earth. The tracks were not orbiting the same as satellites. The tracks were fixed around the Earth with the discovery of 660 intersections through the equator. The fixed tracks were synchronized with the Earth’s 24 hour rotation period.

The model indicates a controlled autonomous ‘surveillance’ of the Earth by some UFOs or exogenous probes. This process is interesting in that some stealth ed larger craft may be in the Stratosphere region delivering craft on one track and then retrieving craft on another track depending on their timing. The timing has to be within + or – 20 mins for the model to work.

The exciting part was to try out the model out in the field. Computer timing graphs were produced for many locations around the Earth. This was based on the most frequent sightings where many intersections of the tracks appear.

We tried the model out in the field at locations in Europe with a 80% success rate. On one occasion a UK TV team recorded one of these events in 1997 based on the model.

Our results were presented to European Space Agency and OSETI 3 USA in 2001. We had a challenging period by others that we had to dilute our detailed model and results. Unfortunately, we had to considerably reduce the importance of these results in order to publish. The two papers were eventually published, with one in particular we had to use a lawyer against the editorial board of one of the journals. This was unprecedented in the history of a well known scientific journal.

The patterns demonstrate the intention may be a long term controlled surveillance of the Earth.

[rgray222]

But here's the question: What difference does it make?

But why is it blue?


Hi Bill
Outside of keeping the topic alive, I don't think it really makes much of a difference.

In my opinion, there are only a couple of things that will truly make a difference.

'Difference' being defined as a general acceptance by the public that alien species are real and visiting planet earth.

Over the years we have had pre-eminent scientist, astronauts, military officials, government officials and investigators with unquestioned credentials attempt to convince the public that UFOs are real and it has not been enough to move the needle anywhere near general acceptance. We have had some cases that leave no doubt in people's mind that aliens are visiting earth.

I had a UFO experience in the 1990's, it was about as up close and personal as it gets. It took a long time to process the sighting but when I was ready I started to speak with family, friends, and anyone that I thought that might be receptive. I spent a great deal of time and effort attempting to convince people that UFOs are real. Eventually, I was interviewed on national radio and prominent video channels. I created a website and posted every day for years. Quite frankly I no longer believe it is worth the effort.

It is not that I am less enthusiastic about the subject I have just come to realize that it takes a lot to ask people to drastically change their reality. Most people are not ready to break their routine reality and accept a new one that is way outside of their comfort level. Even people with mundane lives find a certain level of comfort knowing what to expect each and every day. They don't mind fantasizing about it and they don't mind the movie like fear/thrill of thinking it might be true when they can go home to their same routine. But when confronted with the hardcore truth that aliens are real and visiting our planet it is just a bridge too far for most people.

The effort by many well-intentioned souls to post every light in the sky has so stigmatized the UFO community that it may be irreparable. Of course, those chasing money and fame will continue to hurt the efforts of serious UFO researchers in the years to come. So what will make a difference

Things that will really make a difference.

Total disclosure by a major country (ie America, Russia, UK etc)
Total disclosure by the United Nations
Total disclosure by the Vatican
Total disclosure by an alien species
Irrefutable physical evidence (ie crashed UFO / alien bodies discovered by the public before a cover-up takes place.

Lastly and more importantly it is blue because we believe it is blue.

[thepainterdoug]

Hey all should anyone be interested, I posted about 7 different unknown objects I have photographed over the last 5 years at www.dougauld.com/ufo

my art web site is www.dougauld.com add the /ufo and there they are. should anyone request my witness description for any of the objects, just let me know.

[Tintin]

Don't forget his keenness in offering to do "whatever he could" if Hillary needed his help!

Copies of his emails where he stated this are on another thread here somewhere. I just shook my head when I read them. He came across like a sycophantic puppy....... Sad.

Yes :) Well remembered.

I'd linked them on the "Sekret Machines" thread here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89951-Tom-DeLonge-and-Sekret-Machines-Is-Disclosure-Going-Mainstream&p=1254392&viewfull=1#post1254392)

:focus:

[5th]

There is a lot more than a blur to this story. No, Google is not your friend, but you can find the story using it. Or you can just watch "Turkey UFO" videos on YouTube. The videos have been analyzed by a major university and determined not to appear altered or fakes. I believe this is the most startling bit of evidence for ET life yet seen.

OK, I looked at the video(s) on Youtube and found them totally unconvincing. To conclude that the two blurry brussel sprouts were alien pilots is a leap of unjustified imagination. Like I already said, only a UFO fan would even suggest that.

The craft looked more like an aeroplane with long drooping wings the same as we get on the new solar powered planes but nothing like an interstellar spaceship. Looking at it without the UFO filter it is impossible to draw any conclusions and just because the footage has been verified as genuine changes nothing.

It could be an alien UFO but to mind mind it's just another blurry unknown object with equally convincing earthly explanations. Just because something is unidentified does not make it a UFO in the meaning of extra terrestrial.

[The Moss Trooper]

There is a lot more than a blur to this story. No, Google is not your friend, but you can find the story using it. Or you can just watch "Turkey UFO" videos on YouTube. The videos have been analyzed by a major university and determined not to appear altered or fakes. I believe this is the most startling bit of evidence for ET life yet seen.

OK, I looked at the video(s) on Youtube and found them totally unconvincing. To conclude that the two blurry brussel sprouts were alien pilots is a leap of unjustified imagination. Like I already said, only a UFO fan would even suggest that.

The craft looked more like an aeroplane with long drooping wings the same as we get on the new solar powered planes but nothing like an interstellar spaceship. Looking at it without the UFO filter it is impossible to draw any conclusions and just because the footage has been verified as genuine changes nothing.

It could be an alien UFO but to mind mind it's just another blurry unknown object with equally convincing earthly explanations. Just because something is unidentified does not make it a UFO in the meaning of extra terrestrial.

It's not just the sighting, you're taking that in isolation, and by doing so, then each and every one of us could come-up with a different description for what it is we are looking at.

It is the work that professional skeptics and de-bunkers have done in trying to dis-prove the case, in trying to show that it is fake/hoax........ And by doing so they have, in fact, proved it's authenticity. The pictures show objects that were 'there', physically in this dimension. So, coupled with the security guards story (who filmed it over the course of several nights) that the object appeared over the ocean in the distance and moved toward him, we have to take that at face value, because the footage and pictures are proven to show real objects, occupying real space, at that time.

[conk]

There is a lot more than a blur to this story. No, Google is not your friend, but you can find the story using it. Or you can just watch "Turkey UFO" videos on YouTube. The videos have been analyzed by a major university and determined not to appear altered or fakes. I believe this is the most startling bit of evidence for ET life yet seen.

OK, I looked at the video(s) on Youtube and found them totally unconvincing. To conclude that the two blurry brussel sprouts were alien pilots is a leap of unjustified imagination. Like I already said, only a UFO fan would even suggest that.

The craft looked more like an aeroplane with long drooping wings the same as we get on the new solar powered planes but nothing like an interstellar spaceship. Looking at it without the UFO filter it is impossible to draw any conclusions and just because the footage has been verified as genuine changes nothing.

It could be an alien UFO but to mind mind it's just another blurry unknown object with equally convincing earthly explanations. Just because something is unidentified does not make it a UFO in the meaning of extra terrestrial.

Come on man! Look at the vast collection of intriguing videos, photos, eye witness testimony, written accounts, legends, artifacts, and more that point decidedly to the idea of ET life in our realm and the Turkey video strongly suggests this is a flying craft of other world origin. Some things are what they are by simple evidence. Smoke and fire, right? Wisdom is in the knowing. Then, of course, skeptics have no sense of humor and never play along. Always doubting.

Oh, and thanks. Now I know that Brussel sprouts can fly complex machinery. :)

[5th]

There is a lot more than a blur to this story. No, Google is not your friend, but you can find the story using it. Or you can just watch "Turkey UFO" videos on YouTube. The videos have been analyzed by a major university and determined not to appear altered or fakes. I believe this is the most startling bit of evidence for ET life yet seen.

OK, I looked at the video(s) on Youtube and found them totally unconvincing. To conclude that the two blurry brussel sprouts were alien pilots is a leap of unjustified imagination. Like I already said, only a UFO fan would even suggest that.

The craft looked more like an aeroplane with long drooping wings the same as we get on the new solar powered planes but nothing like an interstellar spaceship. Looking at it without the UFO filter it is impossible to draw any conclusions and just because the footage has been verified as genuine changes nothing.

It could be an alien UFO but to mind mind it's just another blurry unknown object with equally convincing earthly explanations. Just because something is unidentified does not make it a UFO in the meaning of extra terrestrial.

Come on man! Look at the vast collection of intriguing videos, photos, eye witness testimony, written accounts, legends, artifacts, and more that point decidedly to the idea of ET life in our realm and the Turkey video strongly suggests this is a flying craft of other world origin. Some things are what they are by simple evidence. Smoke and fire, right? Wisdom is in the knowing. Then, of course, skeptics have no sense of humor and never play along. Always doubting.

Oh, and thanks. Now I know that Brussel sprouts can fly complex machinery. :)

I've already said that I agree there are ETs (even walking this planet right now) and I agree there are alien UFOs.

I was simply pointing out that the videos in question prove nothing and are being interpreted through a biased belief system - they show nothing for certain.

[The Moss Trooper]

There is a lot more than a blur to this story. No, Google is not your friend, but you can find the story using it. Or you can just watch "Turkey UFO" videos on YouTube. The videos have been analyzed by a major university and determined not to appear altered or fakes. I believe this is the most startling bit of evidence for ET life yet seen.

OK, I looked at the video(s) on Youtube and found them totally unconvincing. To conclude that the two blurry brussel sprouts were alien pilots is a leap of unjustified imagination. Like I already said, only a UFO fan would even suggest that.

The craft looked more like an aeroplane with long drooping wings the same as we get on the new solar powered planes but nothing like an interstellar spaceship. Looking at it without the UFO filter it is impossible to draw any conclusions and just because the footage has been verified as genuine changes nothing.

It could be an alien UFO but to mind mind it's just another blurry unknown object with equally convincing earthly explanations. Just because something is unidentified does not make it a UFO in the meaning of extra terrestrial.

Come on man! Look at the vast collection of intriguing videos, photos, eye witness testimony, written accounts, legends, artifacts, and more that point decidedly to the idea of ET life in our realm and the Turkey video strongly suggests this is a flying craft of other world origin. Some things are what they are by simple evidence. Smoke and fire, right? Wisdom is in the knowing. Then, of course, skeptics have no sense of humor and never play along. Always doubting.

Oh, and thanks. Now I know that Brussel sprouts can fly complex machinery. :)

I've already said that I agree there are ETs (even walking this planet right now) and I agree there are alien UFOs.

I was simply pointing out that the videos in question prove nothing and are being interpreted through a biased belief system - they show nothing for certain.


But what about the witness who videoed the event, and his testimony?

Are you suggesting that the de-fault position should be one of mis-trust?

Whilst I agree that there are a growing number of people who hoax and lie, anyone who has studied this field for long enough will be able to use their experience in quickly weeding-out the more obvious hoax.

If, after the skeptics and de-bunkers have failed, what is left is the account as told by the person who experienced it, then surely that must stand.

[5th]

"But what about the witness who videoed the event, and his testimony?

Are you suggesting that the de-fault position should be one of mis-trust?"


The testimony is irrelevant and of no interest to me. Why would it be? How many times do I have to say I believe in alien UFOs? i don't need another unknown person telling me what to believe.

The whole point of this thread is that such videos and testimonies are (almost) pointless and change nothing.

[jcking]

To Bill and others-
As a recently joined member, I agree with the premise of this thread and along those lines am wondering where you all think are the best places these days on the web (here on Avalon and/or elsewhere) for experiencers to compare notes, especially places that are at least semi-private (for obvious benefit to folks that may be interested). So far I see the Contactee Group on here. I've recently (thanks in part to good ol' Rich Dolan) been looking at Turner, Jacobs & Hopkins, and have found their work helpful.


Thanks in advance-
-J

[frankstien]

It's as if we're all endlessly trying to prove that the sky really is blue. Listen, we KNOW it's blue.

But why is it blue? :)

Okay Bill, I'll bite.

The sky is blue because Orgone energy is blue. Dr. Wilhelm Reich in his bio-electric research found that the atmosphere is teaming with energy, flowing through us and around us. Traditional Chinese medicine calls it "Chi." Reich called it Orgone, life energy. When he drew blood from his veins and immediately put it under a super high powered microscope he would see the blue glow of his blood. This glow would last only a short time and fade out--Orgone.

He wrote about this in many of his books. If you're interested in learning about Wilhelm Reich's research and therapies he developed, these books are an excellent starting point.

The Function of The Orgasm
The Cancer Biopathy
Ether, God, and Devil / Cosmic Superimposition

Here is a short graphic narrative about Reich and his life and work--

Dr. Reich Explains It All For You
https://vagabondcitylit.com/2017/05/02/dr-reich-explains-it-all-for-you-by-allen-forrest/

[jimisroom]

Great point. I'm sure at least half the UFO sightings are planes or balloons and the real problem is that assuming some are genuine extra terrestrial craft they are never clear enough or proven genuine enough to change public opinion.

So what's the point in another year's worth of ten thousand fuzzy blobs shaking around in a video? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and so are UFOs.

These days special effects in films are more real than real life and all we have are fuzzy blobs? It's also interesting that 50 years ago, UFOs looked like they did in comics (old fashioned) and now they look like modern UFOs!

The value is more of a hobby and to keep enthusiasts content. Please, give me a sharp, high definition UFO, preferably with an alien stepping out and being interviewed...

I'm going take the time to answer at least one of these because I feel a little more qualified than most to answer this.

Ever since March of 2013 I have been trying to analyze and understand the UFO sighting I filmed.

Since then, I have filmed several more...

From the perspective of someone filming them, trying to understand what they are filming...its been a very surreal experience.

In other words, I filmed the experience...then shared it...and what I found is that regardless of the video, only a few are capable of analyzing the videos to some kind of useful end. I would ask for help...few would take me seriously...even on a UFO forum.

Most would just dismiss it as a balloon without asking any question whatsoever...including weather conditions, wind direction and speed, time of day, etc. Then others would come along and build upon that with ridicule, tons of balloon photos, and insults about people attempting "hoaxes", but not really share much else about capturing sky anomolies.

Then I attempted to join a Facebook group supposedly focused on approaching it from a "scientific viewpoint". That was an unbelievable disappointment, as the majority of folks who responded to my thread resulted to the same...insults, baseless accusations, and lots of photos of balloons.

I have learned more about "balloons" in UFO forums than anywhere else on the planet. A circus supplier would be envious...

Yet, that is not what I have been capturing here in LA. Most, if not all of the captures are connected. There seem to be several other clues as to when they show up, and why, and "how"...because many of the "blobs" you speak of upon closer inspection are spinning torsion fields manifesting as either light or dark ionization. (Photos are really difficult to analyze. If you can get a video and slow it down, it speaks volumes.

Its taken me forever, but eventually Ive found others who have investigated and written about some of these objects from an out of the box point of view. When I found that Trevor James Constable had been studying and photographing this stuff for years, I was relieved... There are cycles...building cycles to this.

So we need to pay attention. Look at the rates of appearance, when, and in what form. Look at the videos... You will see similarities. Info was shared in the past that included souls of inner earth being amongst the first to contact in disclosure times. Some of these look and feel like bio masses to me...could they be inner earth beings out of body manifesting as orbs? Technology?

My view is to keep watching from all angles, and focus on contactees as well... The answers ARE here already...I'm convinced of it. Its about focusing....and remembering. I'm convinced we've been here before. If we pay attention to the data, and pair that with our own experiences, the answers will be obvious.

[jimisroom]

Hi Bill / Im a sky watcher and enjoy capturing things that somehow make themselves known to me. I have not been able to figure out if Im seeing them, or they're appearing for me?

Regardless , I say, why not share them? If i capture something here on the east coast and share it, and someone else captures a similar object somewhere else, I think that comparison may have some value.

I just enjoy knowing these unknowns are out there, whatever they may mean or be. Does it make a difference?? probably not, but not showing them, doesn't change anything either . cheers

Thank you for saying this!

I started posting mine because I thought they were interesting. After awhile, the experience began to repeat. I would share it, and get the regular customary bs responses from people who had no interest in discussing the topic. But there would always be someone who would say they saw the same thing or something similar.

Thats when I said...screw it...there is an inherent "value" to posting these videos...so I have, and occasionally share the more interesting ones on the forums.

After having my Facebook group nightmare, I took some time to write about it. In the course of the writing I decided to see if I could find any captures close to what I filmed.

Before I knew it, I found like over twelve captures. It made sense to me then. Not only was I not the only one, if one were to really evaluate the data, there is probably WAY much more to be revealed....just in patterns, shapes and time periods alone. We watch films like "Contact" where engineers are aggregating data that seemingly is unrelated and all of a sudden opens to another truth. Has this analysis, or anything near been done yet? Probably not yet...

In the meantime, I appreciate you and other "photographic contactees" continue to share. I believe some that will be filmed will be correlated in dreams and back...but with timing. Pay attention guys...

[jimisroom]

Thanks SO much for bringing this up, Bill.

"So then what?"

I've pondered this quite a bit after encountering my own difficulties contacting "researchers" trying to get a sense of what I was experiencing and filming.



An excellent answer was provided by Dr. Leo Sprinkle:


"In a January 9, 1985 letter, he mentioned: My speculation is that UFOLKS are providing Humankind with instructional events (UFO sightings), in a gradual manner, so that we can discover the relationships between physical, biological, psychosocial and psychic levels of reality. Then we can build flying saucers & become UFO occupants for another planet, etc., etc."

Scott, Irena. Inside the Lightning Ball: Scientific Study of Lifelong UFO Experiencers (p. 86). Kindle Edition.




Its very difficult for people to see this, or even discuss the larger picture and how these sightings might be connected in some way. Most appear to not yet be able to handle the extreme complexity behind UFO disclosure. Not even a lot of established researchers.

Why? To start with, we are taught to pick between "two sides". Its drilled so deeply into our culture.

North vs. South, Disco vs. Rock, Coke vs. Pepsi, Cowboys vs. Redskins, and so on.

Now I see TTSA vs. somewone else, and only one camp can be correct. You have to pick one. As time passes, the actual "data" they shared goes by the wayside, and the arguments devolve to what someone said or lied about or inferred...how they were smeared.


I totally agree with Cameron....yet the difficulty is:

People are also still evolving past their "God complex"

We are taught to collectively believe that not only is "one" camp correct, somewhere, there is some "all knowing" guru with all the answers.

We don't call them gurus or "God"....but we call them "authorities".

And what gives them their "authority"?

Were they born with a divine halo with all of the precious data in their dna, or did they BECOME an authority, over time, based on their "experiences" in said subject? Makes sense right? A pilot would be an "authority" on what is typically seen encountered from a high vantage point in the sky because of his "experience" flying. A teacher an "authority" on academic planning, admin and teaching... etc.

So when a UFO experiencer has repeated experiences, why are they not given the same status as an "authority"?

Because we've been taught by some other "authority" that they are kooks, crazies, trailer folk (I hate this classism bs) , and nutcases, and people looking for attention or money. YET...the researchers making said "money" from writing books rely on "experiences" of those same "kooks" for their subject matter.

Why is the source of the some of the best data the least respected?

As a result, stories and excellent data shared from Menger, Van Tassel, Daniel Fry, Betty and Barney Hill, Adamski, Alex Collier, Enrique Barrios, Matilda McElroy, Billy Meier, Stewart Swerdlow, Jim Sparks, Thiaobba, the Friendship Group....the list goes on....are completely ignored. They don't reach the larger media. And when they do, the focus is largely...are they telling the truth, are they crazy, was it a government operation, was it the Russians, did they hoax the photos, did they hoax the story (?)....blah blah blah.

No...come on guys....what did they SAY???

If you listen/read what the ETs are sharing with the contactees, it would help give you the larger picture of what UFO disclosure...this school we are in, is all about. People need to research and share these as well.

And not just ONE. Its not like Alex has it all right and Whitley has it all wrong. Stop being so extreme. Read from as many sources possible. No ONE person has all the answers.

Much like the contactee accounts, the trends, types, and specifics of "sightings" needs to also be brought together somehow. Few are asking about the "details" behind the sightings. The synchronicity of when and where they show up is a "real" phenomenon few mention. Shapes, actions, frequency, locations, etc. Knee-jerk identifications..."its a balloon"...is not an honest assessment of anything. We should be focusing on several questions.

Lastly we need to stop competing with each other. There is SO much behind this, it will take several years to really come out and everyone will have their chance to contribute in several ways. You'll feel you won't have enough time there will be so much. The continued smearing each other I see in the community will only delay this. We need to continue to come together....now.

[jimisroom]

Sorry for the multi-posts. Got a weird message saying it didn't post, and was told to refresh and try again! I was only trying to respond once...not three times! Sorry.