It's NOT About The Nail (or, Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus)

[Bill Ryan]

Watch and laugh, maybe quite a lot — because this is often so VERY true. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg

[Flash]

Watch and laugh, maybe quite a lot — because this is often so VERY true. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg

ROLF - very funny

But..... this is sooooo macho Bill, as if all women expression of problems are due to down to earth problems to solve.

Sending it nevertheless to my daughter, because she is the one with an INVISIBLE nail for which her engineer/scientist boyfriend is often trying to FIND A PHYSICAL SOLUTION FOR VISIBLE NAILS.

She does not stop saying HEY THE NAIL IS INVISIBLE, TO FIND IT, I HAVE TO SEARCH AND TELLING THE SEARCHING STEPS HELPS - CAN YOU JUST LISTEN!
(and don't send her, as in this video case, to look in the mirror, her nail is invisible all around lol)

His answer would be "if the nail is invisible it is because it does not exist, neeeext.... (dismissal or anger)

In fact Bill, I think this video is more a reaction from Mars at 140 IQ with Venus at 180 EQ.

(got to find videos on man akwardeness lol for a revenge :bigsmile:)

[ripple]

Meet a woman like that and you might as well stop the train immediately . Before the inevitable crash .
Let's hope we British can control the immigration threat of this unwanted species . I'm sure we can nail it .

[Flash]

the question would be to ask WHY MEN PREFER STUPID WOMEN?

This ain't good for genetic reproduction and specie survival. So why do they prefer women with less abilities than theirs? Is their ego so fragile that they can't handle intelligent women? Or their hormones fragile?

So don't complain about a VISIBLE NAIL that she would not see - just get a match to your intelligence, EQ and IQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30tm0Bsn2WU

[ripple]

the question would be to ask WHY MEN PREFER STUPID WOMEN?

Not convinced they do, in the long term . Isn't it more akin to preferring those that are easier to control and/or manipulate .
Plus -- until the shine is lost -- many 'stupid' ones can seem sexually exciting if they also seem uproariously funny . Like pets that talk .
Which male swine said that ?

[Mike]

oh my god...

this could have easily been lifted from the conversations my most recent ex. and i often had

if i merely listened, and said nothing, she'd accuse me of not paying attention; if i offered advice, she'd say she just wanted to be listened to; in the rare instances she was open to advice, and i offered it, she'd tell me how terrible my advice was.

god forbid i said something like "yes, i understand". whew. my hair would get blown back with a "you can't possibly understand!". and when i tried to explain that it was just a manner of speaking, an attempt to offer emotional support, she'd accuse me of condescending.

and then at the end of the argument, if i attempted an apology, she'd accuse me of being insincere. but if i didn't apologize at all she'd tell me i was unfeeling.

https://www.lifewire.com/thmb/xqG7M3X60DtcyA_BMdJ30DfrfO8=/801x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/confusedmacgyvermeme-5ab8392eae9ab8003778609b.PNG

[Savannah]

I have seen this before, it's hilarious.

There is research to prove men and women deal differently with problems. Men talk in order to find solutions and provide information about what worked for them in the past. They like to give that "advice" to others. It is their way of showing caring and concern. Women release emotional stress by talking. They often find an answer as they talk it out. The process of talking is a solution in and of itself. If no answer is found After they have talked it out they are then open to hearing advice and possible solutions if they feel the they have been understood. I am very respectful of these styles when doing therapy.

[AutumnW]

Unfortunately this video is true. I have more male than female friends because I find this dynamic, even outside of romantic relationships, kind of exhausting.

At the same time, I find men 'just don't get it,' at times. But, nor should they. Their brains developed differently than mine did. Women are more empathetic, more able to feel your pain. Men are more action oriented, more willing and able to act on practical problems.

It is probably wise to find the right tool for the job and not isolate within a partnership for this reason. Men can't handle too much emotional ambiguity and agonizing and women don't care about the history of Phillips screwdrivers.

The current social climate tells women that what they want from men is perfectly acceptable and if they aren't receiving it they are somehow being abused.

[onawah]

My experience is that guys really like to have intelligent women for friends to get some intellectual stimulation, or so they can pick their brains and get a sort of uptick by association to their own reputations as smart guys,
But when it comes to romance or sex, they prefer a woman who will help bolster their egos at least some of the time, and especially if she's younger and pretty.
And I hate to make such a cliche statement, but I think it's still true, unfortunately.
We still have a long way to go before recovering from this kind of programming.
And it's going to take women awhile to figure out what their new roles are going to be, too, and how to make the dynamic a healthy one.

[Mike]

My experience is that guys really like to have intelligent women for friends to get some intellectual stimulation, or so they can pick their brains and get a sort of uptick by association to their own reputations as smart guys,
But when it comes to romance or sex, they prefer a woman who will help bolster their egos at least some of the time, and especially if she's younger and pretty.
And I hate to make such a cliche statement, but I think it's still true, unfortunately.
We still have a long way to go before recovering from this kind of programming.
And it's going to take women awhile to figure out what their new roles are going to be, too, and how to make the dynamic a healthy one.



Yep, there's some truth to this Nat. No doubt. Men are just as wonky sometimes, just in different ways.

But the woman I described in my last post wasnt a dummy; she was pretty smart. She was kind of distorted emotionally, that was the thing. And always "playing the victim". Sometimes it was simply impossible to reach her in any kind of rational way.

This isn't some kind of woman bashing thing either, just to be clear. I've been blessed with so many cool and wonderful women friends and romantic partners. Most of my friends on the forum are women; I prefer women doctors and dentists; socially, i prefer women to men most of the time. I'm not entirely sure why, but I do.

But, although women are very distinct and unique in many ways, they're also alike in others. The video does illustrate a slightly exaggerated version of a common thread I see amongst women. You know something like that is true when you immediately laugh without thinking...its an indicator of something universal.

[DeDukshyn]

Watch and laugh, maybe quite a lot — because this is often so VERY true. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg

ROLF - very funny

But..... this is sooooo macho Bill, as if all women expression of problems are due to down to earth problems to solve.

Sending it nevertheless to my daughter, because she is the one with an INVISIBLE nail for which her engineer/scientist boyfriend is often trying to FIND A PHYSICAL SOLUTION FOR VISIBLE NAILS.

She does not stop saying HEY THE NAIL IS INVISIBLE, TO FIND IT, I HAVE TO SEARCH AND TELLING THE SEARCHING STEPS HELPS - CAN YOU JUST LISTEN!
(and don't send her, as in this video case, to look in the mirror, her nail is invisible all around lol)

His answer would be "if the nail is invisible it is because it does not exist, neeeext.... (dismissal or anger)

In fact Bill, I think this video is more a reaction from Mars at 140 IQ with Venus at 180 EQ.

(got to find videos on man akwardeness lol for a revenge :bigsmile:)

From a man's perspective though ...

I can totally relate to this video -- I had a relationship with a person who ended up causing herself a fair bit of pain and suffering - not only did she have "nails" in her head - it was her that put them there. To address her issue, the solutions were sooo simple. To get out of the pain and suffering she was feeling only required awareness and tiny attitude and personality adjusts, really small ones - and really easy to do. The types of adjustments that most people make as the become adults, she failed to make a few of those - as well have a few things in our personalities we carry from our past.

It was incredibly painful to see her in this state and I literally was never allowed to try to help her. Nothing but very bad things happened no matter how loving I approached her. She was NOT going to be told "how to live her life!" - When all I wanted to do was explain how easy it was to solve her suffering.

Our relationships continuity depended on her addressing the issues that was causing her pain because her pain spread everywhere and contaminated everything. I left. It was so hard for me to see something so easy to address, and the thing that would save our relationship, but it couldn't happen. I spent over a decade trying every method from super kind and gentle to anger, and every approach in between.

She'd have none of it. She would not listen to me whatsoever in any way shape or form and if I ever spoke and if she even thought that I might be telling her how to address her pain, she would instantly attack me and scream and fight.

This video is a perfect metaphor for what I experienced the incredible frustration I felt. I'm the type of guy that needs to make things work better - I'm a systems and process guy. So for me to see something so easy to fix, that was causing someone them-self pain, it was unbearable for me and destroyed my relationship. (that and the narcissistic tendencies ;))



All that said, I am eagerly awaiting your video rebuttal. :)

[Valerie Villars]

Well, I thought it was wonderfully indicative of the inherent difference between the sexes.

[onawah]

Intellectual IQ and emotional IQ are two very different things--we can be very bright and yet very immature at the same time.
As long as boys are taught that it's manly to suppress their feelings, and girls are taught that their feelings are silly or irrational, we will probably continue to have these same kinds of problems relating to each other.
We may have a lot all figured out intellectually from psychological studies, etc, but we haven't done a very good job as yet of applying that information.
And with the amount of future and culture shock most of us are in, it looks like we're going to be in a very steep learning curve for some time to come...




Yep, there's some truth to this Nat. No doubt. Men are just as wonky sometimes, just in different ways.

But the woman I described in my last post wasnt a dummy; she was pretty smart. She was kind of distorted emotionally, that was the thing. And always "playing the victim". Sometimes it was simply impossible to reach her in any kind of rational way.

This isn't some kind of woman bashing thing either, just to be clear. I've been blessed with so many cool and wonderful women friends and romantic partners. Most of my friends on the forum are women; I prefer women doctors and dentists; socially, i prefer women to men most of the time. I'm not entirely sure why, but I do.

But, although women are very distinct and unique in many ways, they're also alike in others. The video does illustrate a slightly exaggerated version of a common thread I see amongst women. You know something like that is true when you immediately laugh without thinking...its an indicator of something universal.

[AutumnW]

Onawah,

The current culture is encouraging men to bury their masculinity and forcing them to emote when their natural tendency is to react in a less emotional manner. Also men are attracted to younger women because they are generally more sexually active, pre-menopause. Granted it can involve ego too but primarily it has more to do with a basic urge to merge.

[Flash]

Watch and laugh, maybe quite a lot — because this is often so VERY true. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg

ROLF - very funny

But..... this is sooooo macho Bill, as if all women expression of problems are due to down to earth problems to solve.

Sending it nevertheless to my daughter, because she is the one with an INVISIBLE nail for which her engineer/scientist boyfriend is often trying to FIND A PHYSICAL SOLUTION FOR VISIBLE NAILS.

She does not stop saying HEY THE NAIL IS INVISIBLE, TO FIND IT, I HAVE TO SEARCH AND TELLING THE SEARCHING STEPS HELPS - CAN YOU JUST LISTEN!
(and don't send her, as in this video case, to look in the mirror, her nail is invisible all around lol)

His answer would be "if the nail is invisible it is because it does not exist, neeeext.... (dismissal or anger)

In fact Bill, I think this video is more a reaction from Mars at 140 IQ with Venus at 180 EQ.

(got to find videos on man akwardeness lol for a revenge :bigsmile:)

From a man's perspective though ...

I can totally relate to this video -- I had a relationship with a person who ended up causing herself a fair bit of pain and suffering - not only did she have "nails" in her head - it was her that put them there. To address her issue, the solutions were sooo simple. To get out of the pain and suffering she was feeling only required awareness and tiny attitude and personality adjusts, really small ones - and really easy to do. The types of adjustments that most people make as the become adults, she failed to make a few of those - as well have a few things in our personalities we carry from our past.

It was incredibly painful to see her in this state and I literally was never allowed to try to help her. Nothing but very bad things happened no matter how loving I approached her. She was NOT going to be told "how to live her life!" - When all I wanted to do was explain how easy it was to solve her suffering.

Our relationships continuity depended on her addressing the issues that was causing her pain because her pain spread everywhere and contaminated everything. I left. It was so hard for me to see something so easy to address, and the thing that would save our relationship, but it couldn't happen. I spent over a decade trying every method from super kind and gentle to anger, and every approach in between.

She'd have none of it. She would not listen to me whatsoever in any way shape or form and if I ever spoke and if she even thought that I might be telling her how to address her pain, she would instantly attack me and scream and fight.

This video is a perfect metaphor for what I experienced the incredible frustration I felt. I'm the type of guy that needs to make things work better - I'm a systems and process guy. So for me to see something so easy to fix, that was causing someone them-self pain, it was unbearable for me and destroyed my relationship. (that and the narcissistic tendencies ;))



All that said, I am eagerly awaiting your video rebuttal. :)

One particular paragraph made me think that we all have the same thing happening to us with a partner at one time in our life.

Men or women, the desperation is the same.

Often
To address her issue, the solutions were sooo simple

The only thing is that to address the issue, for men as seen by women, has to do with stopping the emotional numbness men have come to live by.
sh
But, I must add here that if a woman is intelligent, she definitely scare men off, just by being at par or better in logic, men would rather have someone a bit dummier than they are. So the logical levels will not be at the same level. While women are caught with men often flatly uncommunicative or emotions avoiding, not many men can express their emotions or are even interested in doing so.

Your girlfriend seem to have had a problem with control, someone telling her how to be, not what to do without changing her inner self. She confounded what to do for practical change with having to not be who she is. I think I am not expressing myself properly here, but, well.
It really is two different languages.

[Flash]

Onawah,

The current culture is encouraging men to bury their masculinity and forcing them to emote when their natural tendency is to react in a less emotional manner. Also men are attracted to younger women because they are generally more sexually active, pre-menopause. Granted it can involve ego too but primarily it has more to do with a basic urge to merge.

Well, it may depend on the women, but I can swear it, most of my friends would only wish to be sexually active and those who can are more active than they have ever been, after menopause.

I think what you say about women is false.

What I have seen on dating is the following: men are looking for 20 years younger women, thinking that they are still in their prime age when in fact they are often fat, not very active, brain lazy, not taking care of themselves (body cleanliness and clothes average ok) and with a big belly. And they think they are good enough for the 20 years younger.
To tell the truth, it is pathetic. I would not want anyone like that, whatever age I am at.

Past 35, it is often the woman who become more logical with life and much more realistic with everyday life.

Men keep thinking they are a stalion, and then, when they hit middle age or the late fifties, they go in depression. The highest rate of suicide is at that age for men. Why? I think it is because reality hit hard and all of a sudden for them. The changes were not willfull throughout life, they were sudden (in their views), forced on them by life.

Anyhow, all this is my opinion, I may be off, maybe it is just Canadian men lolllll, or me...

[onawah]

Yes, I see that too about our current culture, Autumn.
It's got to be very confusing because the old paradigm of suppression is still closely underpinning the new one.
There are strong cross currents and mixed messages for both genders, but I think men are even more confused than women.

But in the Masters and Johnson studies they actually found that a lot of women's libidos get stronger as they age.
The urge for romance is probably stronger in younger women, but apparently in a lot of older women, the sexual urge gets stronger.
Which may help explain the current "cougar" trend (along with hormonal therapy).


Onawah,

The current culture is encouraging men to bury their masculinity and forcing them to emote when their natural tendency is to react in a less emotional manner. Also men are attracted to younger women because they are generally more sexually active, pre-menopause. Granted it can involve ego too but primarily it has more to do with a basic urge to merge.

I think the irrational anger that many women are expressing now comes from the collective unconscious, and has to do with very old patterns of patriarchal abuse that women have had to endure for thousands of years on this planet.
Even though things have improved in many ways in Western cultures, the fact is that in much of the world, simply being female is still a very unsafe and misery-producing proposition, in some places even more so than in the past.

Even if we are not being exposed to that directly, it can still weigh on us unconsciously.
And there are surprising, seemingly anomalous factors in the statistics, such as the one stating that the US is #10 on the list of countries in the world that are most dangerous for women!
So much is not the way it seems on the surface, and that has to be causing a huge amount of confusion, even if all most see is the tip of the iceberg, because we respond to so much that we are not at all consciously aware of.
See:http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?105662-The-Tragedy-of-Cultural-Relativism--or-why-some-cultures-really-are-more-dangerous-than-others-&p=1269187&viewfull=1#post1269187

[5th]

Interesting to see the reactions this has provoked. The point of the video is that men and women's brains DO work in different ways and this has nothing to do with IQ, EQ or age!

Men talk in order to solve problems and women talk in order to comfort themselves through social connection. Neither is 'right' or 'wrong' and it's a generalisation. So naturally the man thinks she wants a solution to her problems and naturally the women thinks he is not listening properly...

[lunaflare]

Hah, a good video to incite some varied male/female responses!

Regarding the premise, nay, I didn't find this to be true at all.
The majority of women are practical and solution focused--this is why they are mothers ; yep the gender that gives birth and is biologically wired to sustain new life. And that's not all--they can also be intuitive, sensitive and compassionate.

When given the opportunity of education, girls perform better than boys. In all subjects

https://www.educationworld.com/a_news/study-finds-girls-get-higher-grades-boys-all-school-subjects

One last point, women would never allow their sweaters to be snagged, by the way. They would really start to look for the cause in a serious way. A snagged sweater is unwearable and this is wasteful and not practical when one is managing a budget....

[DeDukshyn]

Watch and laugh, maybe quite a lot — because this is often so VERY true. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg

ROLF - very funny

But..... this is sooooo macho Bill, as if all women expression of problems are due to down to earth problems to solve.

Sending it nevertheless to my daughter, because she is the one with an INVISIBLE nail for which her engineer/scientist boyfriend is often trying to FIND A PHYSICAL SOLUTION FOR VISIBLE NAILS.

She does not stop saying HEY THE NAIL IS INVISIBLE, TO FIND IT, I HAVE TO SEARCH AND TELLING THE SEARCHING STEPS HELPS - CAN YOU JUST LISTEN!
(and don't send her, as in this video case, to look in the mirror, her nail is invisible all around lol)

His answer would be "if the nail is invisible it is because it does not exist, neeeext.... (dismissal or anger)

In fact Bill, I think this video is more a reaction from Mars at 140 IQ with Venus at 180 EQ.

(got to find videos on man akwardeness lol for a revenge :bigsmile:)

From a man's perspective though ...

I can totally relate to this video -- I had a relationship with a person who ended up causing herself a fair bit of pain and suffering - not only did she have "nails" in her head - it was her that put them there. To address her issue, the solutions were sooo simple. To get out of the pain and suffering she was feeling only required awareness and tiny attitude and personality adjusts, really small ones - and really easy to do. The types of adjustments that most people make as the become adults, she failed to make a few of those - as well have a few things in our personalities we carry from our past.

It was incredibly painful to see her in this state and I literally was never allowed to try to help her. Nothing but very bad things happened no matter how loving I approached her. She was NOT going to be told "how to live her life!" - When all I wanted to do was explain how easy it was to solve her suffering.

Our relationships continuity depended on her addressing the issues that was causing her pain because her pain spread everywhere and contaminated everything. I left. It was so hard for me to see something so easy to address, and the thing that would save our relationship, but it couldn't happen. I spent over a decade trying every method from super kind and gentle to anger, and every approach in between.

She'd have none of it. She would not listen to me whatsoever in any way shape or form and if I ever spoke and if she even thought that I might be telling her how to address her pain, she would instantly attack me and scream and fight.

This video is a perfect metaphor for what I experienced the incredible frustration I felt. I'm the type of guy that needs to make things work better - I'm a systems and process guy. So for me to see something so easy to fix, that was causing someone them-self pain, it was unbearable for me and destroyed my relationship. (that and the narcissistic tendencies ;))



All that said, I am eagerly awaiting your video rebuttal. :)

One particular paragraph made me think that we all have the same thing happening to us with a partner at one time in our life.

Men or women, the desperation is the same.

Often
To address her issue, the solutions were sooo simple

The only thing is that to address the issue, for men as seen by women, has to do with stopping the emotional numbness men have come to live by.
sh
But, I must add here that if a woman is intelligent, she definitely scare men off, just by being at par or better in logic, men would rather have someone a bit dummier than they are. So the logical levels will not be at the same level. While women are caught with men often flatly uncommunicative or emotions avoiding, not many men can express their emotions or are even interested in doing so.

Your girlfriend seem to have had a problem with control, someone telling her how to be, not what to do without changing her inner self. She confounded what to do for practical change with having to not be who she is. I think I am not expressing myself properly here, but, well.
It really is two different languages.

I have an interesting relationship with my emotions that make me often come across as emotionally numb or uncaring, but that's just how it comes across due to my relationship with my emotions. I am actually extremely emotional and can often be brought to tears by simple things or even for no reason at all. However, I keep my emotion stream 100% separate from my "functioning and logic" stream - except to cross reference for a potentially larger view of a situation. So I could be called "numb to emotion" - but closer to reality is I don't want to enable weakness in myself by conflating emotions and emotional reactions with logic, will to get things done, and will to making things better. I don't want to enable that in others either. That said, I did have to do a fair bit of inner work to get to that point, which I feel is best for me, and I still come across as emotionally numb.

re: "girlfriend seems to have control issues" - correct to an extreme level. She had many narcissistic traits.

To add: Interestingly, when I come across a woman that I find or assume is equally or more intelligent than me, I get instantly turned on. I have had plenty enough of unintelligent women, and I don't like it much ...

Many of attractive women seem to come in go at my place of work, I only ever get genuinely excited about the ones I deem highly intelligent.

Maybe I'm a weirdo ... :)

[onawah]

It's a big subject, and Mike (whose thread this is, so he gets to steer it) expanded upon the basic issue with his description of the woman he was in a relationship with.

I'm having a similar experience with my Divine Feminine thread--male/female issues are complicated!

I agree with DeDukshyn, she has some narcissistic traits, and Mike is empathic, which gets into yet another topic!



But the woman I described in my last post wasnt a dummy; she was pretty smart. She was kind of distorted emotionally, that was the thing. And always "playing the victim". Sometimes it was simply impossible to reach her in any kind of rational way.

This isn't some kind of woman bashing thing either, just to be clear. I've been blessed with so many cool and wonderful women friends and romantic partners. Most of my friends on the forum are women; I prefer women doctors and dentists; socially, i prefer women to men most of the time. I'm not entirely sure why, but I do.

But, although women are very distinct and unique in many ways, they're also alike in others. The video does illustrate a slightly exaggerated version of a common thread I see amongst women. You know something like that is true when you immediately laugh without thinking...its an indicator of something universal.


Interesting to see the reactions this has provoked. The point of the video is that men and women's brains DO work in different ways and this has nothing to do with IQ, EQ or age!

Men talk in order to solve problems and women talk in order to comfort themselves through social connection. Neither is 'right' or 'wrong' and it's a generalisation. So naturally the man thinks she wants a solution to her problems and naturally the women thinks he is not listening properly...

[ripple]

I have an interesting relationship with my emotions that make me often come across as emotionally numb or uncaring, but that's just how it comes across due to my relationship with my emotions. I am actually extremely emotional and can often be brought to tears by simple things or even for no reason at all. However, I keep my emotion stream 100% separate from my "functioning and logic" stream - except to cross reference for a potentially larger view of a situation. So I could be called "numb to emotion" - but closer to reality is I don't want to enable weakness in myself by conflating emotions and emotional reactions with logic, will to get things done, and will to making things better. I don't want to enable that in others either. That said, I did have to do a fair bit of inner work to get to that point, which I feel is best for me, and I still come across as emotionally numb.

re: "girlfriend seems to have control issues" - correct to an extreme level. She had many narcissistic traits.

To add: Interestingly, when I come across a woman that I find or assume is equally or more intelligent than me, I get instantly turned on. I have had plenty enough of unintelligent women, and I don't like it much ...

Many of attractive women seem to come in go at my place of work, I only ever get genuinely excited about the ones I deem highly intelligent.

Maybe I'm a weirdo ... :)



No weirdo .
Your stance and / or condition is the pragmatic one for a sensible and questioning male who is not frightened to stand by considered judgements . imho .

[Morbid]

i used to work with this jamaican dude years ago. he would be getting laid by different women almost daily. he's not sure how many kids he've got from whom. changed his mobile numbers quite frequently, so you get the idea.. his secret? as we did project together he would always have inear bluetooth speaker on, occasionally replying with "aha", "i hear you", "you're right", "ya man" etc. so spending several hours a day tolerating background noise would award him with a guaranteed session. part of me kind of admired him..

[A Voice from the Mountains]

the question would be to ask WHY MEN PREFER STUPID WOMEN?

When the popular culture becomes saturated with 3rd wave feminism and everything becoming about personal anecdotes and feelings (ie estrogen) rather than logic and reasoning, we don't have as much of a choice as you might think.



i used to work with this jamaican dude years ago. he would be getting laid by different women almost daily. he's not sure how many kids he've got from whom. changed his mobile numbers quite frequently, so you get the idea.. his secret? as we did project together he would always have inear bluetooth speaker on, occasionally replying with "aha", "i hear you", "you're right", "ya man" etc. so spending several hours a day tolerating background noise would award him with a guaranteed session. part of me kind of admired him..

And the army of fatherless children he leaves behind will certainly be a boon for society.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_orkXxp0bhEA/SWoSYqmjONI/AAAAAAAAPBw/hwKOdVlyBsI/s1600/090110-10pct-single-parent-17pct-violent.jpg

http://www.fathersforlife.org/images/chap6cht11.gif

Even Obama acknowledged it:


The absence of fathers is important, Obama continued, because "children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of schools and 20 times more likely to end up in prison."

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jun/23/barack-obama/statistics-dont-lie-in-this-case/

Men set boundaries. Women coddle and make excuses for their children. Sorry in advance if the above data isn't based on feelings.

I was going to try to find some way to virtue signal about all the brave and courageous qualities of the "divine feminine," but since cult leader Obama says it's okay to talk about these problems, I'll just skip the formalities.

[DeDukshyn]

i used to work with this jamaican dude years ago. he would be getting laid by different women almost daily. he's not sure how many kids he've got from whom. changed his mobile numbers quite frequently, so you get the idea.. his secret? as we did project together he would always have inear bluetooth speaker on, occasionally replying with "aha", "i hear you", "you're right", "ya man" etc. so spending several hours a day tolerating background noise would award him with a guaranteed session. part of me kind of admired him..

I know I could easily woo women by catering to their emotional feelings by simply doing those sorts of things, which would be being dishonest with myself on some level. I would consider that manipulation and 'easy' though ... I personally would feel little reward in getting laid that way -- too easy, and many of the women who would fall for that would do so simply because they are emotionally weak - I'm not into weak women.

Needless to say I don't get laid much, because I'm unwilling to do those sorts of things ... Cest la vie ... :)

[A Voice from the Mountains]

It was incredibly painful to see her in this state and I literally was never allowed to try to help her. Nothing but very bad things happened no matter how loving I approached her. She was NOT going to be told "how to live her life!" - When all I wanted to do was explain how easy it was to solve her suffering.

I've experienced the same thing. Most men probably have, including the ones responding here, from the looks of it. Men wanting to date modern women almost have to be therapists, which is unhealthy for everyone involved and a burden no man should have to carry.

I believe the reason that modern women de-legitimize the man's instinct to try to find a practical solution to everyday problems is that they've been conditioned by feminist society into seeing men as tyrannical and oppressive by default, and so they have very low respect for what men have to offer to begin with. They probably had problems with their own fathers, experienced parental divorce, or maybe were raised by single moms. Too many women obsess over the "divine feminine" without having the slightest clue of what qualities are supposed to counter-balance femininity. Too often they even have open contempt for anything masculine, and some are going so far as to call masculinity a mental disorder now. And it's pure projection.

This is what happens when feelings take precedence over cold, hard reasoning in society.

[Flash]

It was incredibly painful to see her in this state and I literally was never allowed to try to help her. Nothing but very bad things happened no matter how loving I approached her. She was NOT going to be told "how to live her life!" - When all I wanted to do was explain how easy it was to solve her suffering.

I've experienced the same thing. Most men probably have, including the ones responding here, from the looks of it. Men wanting to date modern women almost have to be therapists, which is unhealthy for everyone involved and a burden no man should have to carry.

I believe the reason that modern women de-legitimize the man's instinct to try to find a practical solution to everyday problems is that they've been conditioned by feminist society into seeing men as tyrannical and oppressive by default, and so they have very low respect for what men have to offer to begin with. They probably had problems with their own fathers, experienced parental divorce, or maybe were raised by single moms. Too many women obsess over the "divine feminine" without having the slightest clue of what qualities are supposed to counter-balance femininity. Too often they even have open contempt for anything masculine, and some are going so far as to call masculinity a mental disorder now. And it's pure projection.

This is what happens when feelings take precedence over cold, hard reasoning in society.

Oh please, avoid what you usually do

the pop psychology about women - and their fathers - you are plainly not qualified
north american women being not feminine, but Brazilian or Philipinos are - total despise toward us (seen from you in other threads as well)
that we have contempt for men!!!! up to now, I have always seen you having contempt toward north American women

I sincerely have enough of women blasting

We may have been men blasting for one century, but men have been women blasting and more for milleniums, and I have enough of this stupidity

If you cannot handle intelligent women, because what I see here is sheer projection (you want pop psychology, here it is, but at least Ihave the degrees to support it)

You are soo dry and not funny and not intelligent, emotionally or intelligence base when it regards women that I wonder how come a guy like this could go through the North American world and remain so close minded like this.

And do not answer me, I am writing for everyone else here, not you.

Oh: i will add this: everytime this guy is on a thread regarding women or men-women relationship, the thread become insipid crap with gluiey sugary comments. Unbearable, it take of all the taste I have to write in those thread.

But WOMEN HAVE SHUT UP FOR MILLENIAS AND I WON'T PURSUE IN THIS MANNER

Up to now, I was just stopping to participate in these thread, but no more, This behavior has to be addressed.

[AutumnW]

Yes, I see that too about our current culture, Autumn.
It's got to be very confusing because the old paradigm of suppression is still closely underpinning the new one.
There are strong cross currents and mixed messages for both genders, but I think men are even more confused than women.

But in the Masters and Johnson studies they actually found that a lot of women's libidos get stronger as they age.
The urge for romance is probably stronger in younger women, but apparently in a lot of older women, the sexual urge gets stronger.
Which may help explain the current "cougar" trend (along with hormonal therapy).


Onawah,

The current culture is encouraging men to bury their masculinity and forcing them to emote when their natural tendency is to react in a less emotional manner. Also men are attracted to younger women because they are generally more sexually active, pre-menopause. Granted it can involve ego too but primarily it has more to do with a basic urge to merge.

I think the irrational anger that many women are expressing now comes from the collective unconscious, and has to do with very old patterns of patriarchal abuse that women have had to endure for thousands of years on this planet.
Even though things have improved in many ways in Western cultures, the fact is that in much of the world, simply being female is still a very unsafe and misery-producing proposition, in some places even more so than in the past.

Even if we are not being exposed to that directly, it can still weigh on us unconsciously.
And there are surprising, seemingly anomalous factors in the statistics, such as the one stating that the US is #10 on the list of countries in the world that are most dangerous for women!
So much is not the way it seems on the surface, and that has to be causing a huge amount of confusion, even if all most see is the tip of the iceberg, because we respond to so much that we are not at all consciously aware of.
See:http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?105662-The-Tragedy-of-Cultural-Relativism--or-why-some-cultures-really-are-more-dangerous-than-others-&p=1269187&viewfull=1#post1269187

Onawah,

I think you hit the nail on the head here! There are so many undercurrents, contradictions. Also, we all spend more time in a virtual, non tactile space now and that has large scale ramifications for society. The gender "battle" can't be understood apart from this greater technological revolution.

[Flash]

i used to work with this jamaican dude years ago. he would be getting laid by different women almost daily. he's not sure how many kids he've got from whom. changed his mobile numbers quite frequently, so you get the idea.. his secret? as we did project together he would always have inear bluetooth speaker on, occasionally replying with "aha", "i hear you", "you're right", "ya man" etc. so spending several hours a day tolerating background noise would award him with a guaranteed session. part of me kind of admired him..

I know I could easily woo women by catering to their emotional feelings by simply doing those sorts of things, which would be being dishonest with myself on some level. I would consider that manipulation and 'easy' though ... I personally would feel little reward in getting laid that way -- too easy, and many of the women who would fall for that would do so simply because they are emotionally weak - I'm not into weak women.

Needless to say I don't get laid much, because I'm unwilling to do those sorts of things ... Cest la vie ... :)

I agree with you here, and imo for stronger more balanced women. Word for word agree Dedukshyn

[onawah]

Go for it, Flash, if you have the energy! :heart:
It takes a lot of it to be a good, strong Mom to dysfunctional men, and that is usually what they are looking for, whether they admit to it or not.
Though on Avalon, I have taken the easy way out and expanded my Ignore list.
If it gets to be too nauseating, you can always give yourself a break and take that option too.
Being ignored can sometimes be the best deterrent, though at other times we have to :blackwidow: if only to stay in balance ourselves.

Does it ever occur to men that women are furious that we, the children and "All Our Relations" have had to live in the world that men have created with their wars and technology and "progress", and until recently, have had very little say, especially in how to caretake this planet, the Mother of us all?

It's certainly time for a redressing in the balance of power, if it means women having more say in these matters and men are just going to have to bear it until we have had enough time to release the fury, which goes very deep.

(And I don't mean women like Thatcher or Hillary or Merkel.)

Unless of course, they want to return to the old ways of the patriarchy, which it's clear a lot of them would prefer.

Real change doesn't come easily.




I've experienced the same thing. Most men probably have, including the ones responding here, from the looks of it. Men wanting to date modern women almost have to be therapists, which is unhealthy for everyone involved and a burden no man should have to carry.

I believe the reason that modern women de-legitimize the man's instinct to try to find a practical solution to everyday problems is that they've been conditioned by feminist society into seeing men as tyrannical and oppressive by default, and so they have very low respect for what men have to offer to begin with. They probably had problems with their own fathers, experienced parental divorce, or maybe were raised by single moms. Too many women obsess over the "divine feminine" without having the slightest clue of what qualities are supposed to counter-balance femininity. Too often they even have open contempt for anything masculine, and some are going so far as to call masculinity a mental disorder now. And it's pure projection.

This is what happens when feelings take precedence over cold, hard reasoning in society.

Oh please, avoid what you usually do

the pop psychology about women - and their fathers - you are plainly not qualified
north american women being not feminine, but Brazilian or Philipinos are - total despise toward us (seen from you in other threads as well)
that we have contempt for men!!!! up to now, I have always seen you having contempt toward north American women

I sincerely have enough of women blasting

We may have been men blasting for one century, but men have been women blasting and more for milleniums, and I have enough of this stupidity

If you cannot handle intelligent women, because what I see here is sheer projection (you want pop psychology, here it is, but at least Ihave the degrees to support it)

You are soo dry and not funny and not intelligent, emotionally or intelligence base when it regards women that I wonder how come a guy like this could go through the North American world and remain so close minded like this.

And do not answer me, I am writing for everyone else here, not you.

Oh: i will add this: everytime this guy is on a thread regarding women or men-women relationship, the thread become insipid crap with gluiey sugary comments. Unbearable, it take of all the taste I have to write in those thread.

But WOMEN HAVE SHUT UP FOR MILLENIAS AND I WON'T PURSUE IN THIS MANNER

Up to now, I was just stopping to participate in these thread, but no more, This behavior has to be addressed.



Onawah,
I think you hit the nail on the head here! There are so many undercurrents, contradictions. Also, we all spend more time in a virtual, non tactile space now and that has large scale ramifications for society. The gender "battle" can't be understood apart from this greater technological revolution.

Very true, Autumn. Women, children, animals, the natural world have been considered to be just so much 'collateral damage" when it comes to their technological exploitation of the natural world, and now the worst of them just can't wait until they can completely mind control everyone as well.

Women, being so much more in touch with Nature, and so much more vulnerable, like children and animals, to what is toxic and out of balance with Nature, are the first to suffer and therefore women must also be the ones to speak out on behalf of all that is vulnerable and worthy of protection instead of exploitation.

If many women are unable to express themselves well, it should hardly come as any surprise considering how long we have been bullied into keeping quiet.

The role of Divine Masculine is to protect, not to exploit. If that is not functional, all else will be dysfunctional as well...It's not their fault, if you consider that the covert rulers of this planet for thousands of years are not even human, but they still have to take responsibility for what should be.

[AutumnW]

My experience is that guys really like to have intelligent women for friends to get some intellectual stimulation, or so they can pick their brains and get a sort of uptick by association to their own reputations as smart guys,
But when it comes to romance or sex, they prefer a woman who will help bolster their egos at least some of the time, and especially if she's younger and pretty.
And I hate to make such a cliche statement, but I think it's still true, unfortunately.
We still have a long way to go before recovering from this kind of programming.
And it's going to take women awhile to figure out what their new roles are going to be, too, and how to make the dynamic a healthy one.

The issue may be more about basic attractiveness and persona than IQ. People who define themselves as highly intelligent, or place too much emphasis on their own version of intelligence can be sexually off-putting. Male nerds are notoriously unappealing. They aren't fully dimensional beings. There are female Nerds too. They may falsely assume it is their intelligence that puts men off but there is much more going on there.

[AutumnW]

Hah, a good video to incite some varied male/female responses!

Regarding the premise, nay, I didn't find this to be true at all.
The majority of women are practical and solution focused--this is why they are mothers ; yep the gender that gives birth and is biologically wired to sustain new life. And that's not all--they can also be intuitive, sensitive and compassionate.

When given the opportunity of education, girls perform better than boys. In all subjects

https://www.educationworld.com/a_news/study-finds-girls-get-higher-grades-boys-all-school-subjects

One last point, women would never allow their sweaters to be snagged, by the way. They would really start to look for the cause in a serious way. A snagged sweater is unwearable and this is wasteful and not practical when one is managing a budget....

The modern form of sexism pushes the view that women outperform men in all subjects -- given equal opportunity. I'm with Jordan Peterson on this one. This is untrue, unfair and is more about payback than honesty.

[AutumnW]

Go for it, Flash, if you have the energy! :heart:
It takes a lot of it to be a good, strong Mom to dysfunctional men, and that is usually what they are looking for, whether they admit to it or not.
Though on Avalon, I have taken the easy way out and expanded my Ignore list.
If it gets to be too nauseating, you can always give yourself a break and take that option too.
Being ignored can sometimes be the best deterrent, though at other times we have to :blackwidow: if only to stay in balance ourselves.

Does it ever occur to men that women are furious that we, the children and "All Our Relations" have had to live in the world that men have created with their wars and technology and "progress", and until recently, have had very little say, especially in how to caretake this planet, the Mother of us all?

It's certainly time for a redressing in the balance of power, if it means women having more say in these matters and men are just going to have to bear it until we have had enough time to release the fury, which goes very deep.

(And I don't mean women like Thatcher or Hillary or Merkel.)

Unless of course, they want to return to the old ways of the patriarchy, which it's clear a lot of them would prefer.

Real change doesn't come easily.




I've experienced the same thing. Most men probably have, including the ones responding here, from the looks of it. Men wanting to date modern women almost have to be therapists, which is unhealthy for everyone involved and a burden no man should have to carry.

I believe the reason that modern women de-legitimize the man's instinct to try to find a practical solution to everyday problems is that they've been conditioned by feminist society into seeing men as tyrannical and oppressive by default, and so they have very low respect for what men have to offer to begin with. They probably had problems with their own fathers, experienced parental divorce, or maybe were raised by single moms. Too many women obsess over the "divine feminine" without having the slightest clue of what qualities are supposed to counter-balance femininity. Too often they even have open contempt for anything masculine, and some are going so far as to call masculinity a mental disorder now. And it's pure projection.

This is what happens when feelings take precedence over cold, hard reasoning in society.

Oh please, avoid what you usually do

the pop psychology about women - and their fathers - you are plainly not qualified
north american women being not feminine, but Brazilian or Philipinos are - total despise toward us (seen from you in other threads as well)
that we have contempt for men!!!! up to now, I have always seen you having contempt toward north American women

I sincerely have enough of women blasting

We may have been men blasting for one century, but men have been women blasting and more for milleniums, and I have enough of this stupidity

If you cannot handle intelligent women, because what I see here is sheer projection (you want pop psychology, here it is, but at least Ihave the degrees to support it)

You are soo dry and not funny and not intelligent, emotionally or intelligence base when it regards women that I wonder how come a guy like this could go through the North American world and remain so close minded like this.

And do not answer me, I am writing for everyone else here, not you.

Oh: i will add this: everytime this guy is on a thread regarding women or men-women relationship, the thread become insipid crap with gluiey sugary comments. Unbearable, it take of all the taste I have to write in those thread.

But WOMEN HAVE SHUT UP FOR MILLENIAS AND I WON'T PURSUE IN THIS MANNER

Up to now, I was just stopping to participate in these thread, but no more, This behavior has to be addressed.



Onawah,
I think you hit the nail on the head here! There are so many undercurrents, contradictions. Also, we all spend more time in a virtual, non tactile space now and that has large scale ramifications for society. The gender "battle" can't be understood apart from this greater technological revolution.

Very true, Autumn. Women, children, animals, the natural world have been considered to be just so much 'collateral damage" when it comes to their technological exploitation of the natural world, and now the worst of them just can't wait until they can completely mind control everyone as well.

Women, being so much more in touch with Nature, and so much more vulnerable, like children and animals, to what is toxic and out of balance with Nature, are the first to suffer and therefore women must also be the ones to speak out on behalf of all that is vulnerable and worthy of protection instead of exploitation.

If many women are unable to express themselves well, it should hardly come as any surprise considering how long we have been bullied into keeping quiet.

The role of Divine Masculine is to protect, not to exploit. If that is not functional, all else will be dysfunctional as well...It's not their fault, if you consider that the covert rulers of this planet for thousands of years are not even human, but they still have to take responsibility for what should be.

Again you are bang on here. Our greatest strength is our sensitivity to natural forces and we should go with deeper forces that guide us rather than engage in superficial distractions that not only subtract from us but others as well.

[Agape]

i used to work with this jamaican dude years ago. he would be getting laid by different women almost daily. he's not sure how many kids he've got from whom. changed his mobile numbers quite frequently, so you get the idea.. his secret? as we did project together he would always have inear bluetooth speaker on, occasionally replying with "aha", "i hear you", "you're right", "ya man" etc. so spending several hours a day tolerating background noise would award him with a guaranteed session. part of me kind of admired him..

Yep. There’s always lesson to learn. I learned one from my mum who was abnormally talkative in my opinion, great rhetorician, she had broad knowledge of advanced topics true but could go on and on for hours and your only chance was to sit, listen and sometimes-not to forget-respond in the right manner to show you’re following the “conversation”. That’s how she’d call it anyway. She’d forget she’s having two hour monologue:)
As a child I was still curious and learned from it and learned to listen. It helped me to be a good listener, later in life when counselling others.
Sometimes, people don’t need anything else so much that you’re being able to listen to them with full attention.
I’ve not seen even many therapists being able to do that. Most loose patience after half an hour and start infusing you with their idea of how it really is.

Well but back to my mum. When I grew older I found her talkativeness really annoying and tried to avoid having conversations with her except for Sunday’s.
It was just too much on me and it accumulated since back then when I was a kid. It was like swarm of bees or energy projectile in your head. The nail isn’t far from the parallel.

I tried to teach her-in return- when I was older about the goodness of silence and meditation but she obviously suffered:) when there was no chat going on.

Very late, to the end of her life and she had friend to talk to everyday but it never stopped her from going on n on ..while her energy was literally dissolving, exhausting her in front of my eyes ..once again, having no other option, I just sat and listened to her without interrupting for about two hours.
Out of sudden , she noticed my calms. And she stopped realising she does not have to do this to entertain. That I don’t expect more. Something like that.

And I did the same mistake number of times with some of my best friends too. That’s it, I’m not chatty person in general, not at all. I only talk to someone if I love them very much:) And then I can talk a lot ...and if I forget to stop the other person don’t tell me off but suffer silently and it’s all wrong at the end.

It’s an archetypal habit that either males or females find difficult to get rid of, if you love someone you want to entertain. Share the best stories, the juiciest wisdoms and list of what you’ve learned in life so that they ..err..don’t fail or don’t do the same mistake and don’t forget the customs in life :bigsmile:

It’s shortly before you realise that you’re loved mostly for being and doing rather than talking and most of advanced societies respect quiet males and females bit better.

:bowing:

[greybeard]

There is a balance

as posted here
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103734-When-men-were-men-women-were-feminine&p=1269343&viewfull=1#post1269343
Woman snaps after date refuses to pay her £99 food bill


" A guy has shared the barrage of abusive messages he received from a woman, after refusing to pay for her food after a date.

And while that may sound like a douche move, the internet is actually on his side."

and here
Posted by 5th
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?105676-Home-DNA-tests-reveal-20-of-British-dads-aren-t-really-the-father&p=1269381&viewfull=1#post1269381

"Yes indeed! The roughly 20% of children conceived outside of the parent partnership has been known for a long time but now with the increase in paternity testing it is not only being proven correct but becoming more widely known.

The reason for this seemingly high percentage of infidelity was concluded to the the alarming extent to which women are driven by their primitive subconscious urges to get the 'best' genes for their children - and biologically speaking this is usually the bad boy, don't care about anyone else winner type rather than a stable father/provider.

Just another example of how we are are driven by our basic animal instincts! "

Men and women are as they are.
Most are decent and have respect for the opposite sex.
Chris

[onawah]

Incessant chatter is just a way to keep from feeling what is really going inside of one's self, and it eats up a tremendous amount of energy.
I was well and truly amazed at how empowered and energized I felt after taking a six week vow of silence when I was living at a Zen Center in the mountains of Virginia in my younger years.
I would have extended it, but I was asked to end it because there was much physical work to be done, and it took too much time to write things down that were necessary to communicate.
But it was very instructive to realize how much really didn't need to be communicated in words--silence and the deep empathy that accompanies it often was a much better medium of communication.
I got so much more in touch with Nature, and felt much closer in spirit to the others who were living there.
So much of our attention is diverted from Being to thinking when we are in conversation with others, and we are all the poorer for it.



I tried to teach her-in return- when I was older about the goodness of silence and meditation but she obviously suffered:) when there was no chat going on.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Oh please, avoid what you usually do

the pop psychology about women - and their fathers - you are plainly not qualified
north american women being not feminine, but Brazilian or Philipinos are - total despise toward us (seen from you in other threads as well)
that we have contempt for men!!!! up to now, I have always seen you having contempt toward north American women

I sincerely have enough of women blasting

Thank you for refuting what I said with careful reasoning rather than just being emotional. I appreciate such a clear and thoughtful response.

[DeDukshyn]

It was incredibly painful to see her in this state and I literally was never allowed to try to help her. Nothing but very bad things happened no matter how loving I approached her. She was NOT going to be told "how to live her life!" - When all I wanted to do was explain how easy it was to solve her suffering.

I've experienced the same thing. Most men probably have, including the ones responding here, from the looks of it. Men wanting to date modern women almost have to be therapists, which is unhealthy for everyone involved and a burden no man should have to carry.

...

Well I can certainly agree it sometimes feels this way, that is for sure. At the same time I imagine many women can also say the same thing about men and some of our issues (or just our general approach to things that differ from women). Its certainly a "human" phenomenon more than it is just a man or woman thing ... but us being only on one side admittedly have a bit of 'male' bias, of course. ;)

They way I see it almost everyone needs therapy. It's partly just that few people are doing any self work and self reflection these days because no one wants to look into themselves and find what they don't like about others in there. This is not the entire problem in itself, but compounds the problem of men and woman being different in their emotional and social needs.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Well I can certainly agree it sometimes feels this way, that is for sure. At the same time I imagine many women can also say the same thing about men and some of our issues (or just our general approach to things that differ from women). Its certainly a "human" phenomenon more than it is just a man or woman thing ... but us being only on one side admittedly have a bit of 'male' bias, of course. ;)

Of course men have issues as well, but we get beat up for it all the time. That's why you don't even feel comfortable criticizing the results of radical feminism here without having to also throw the women a bone and beat up on men some more as well. Gender relations as a whole have completely deteriorated, and yet we never hear anything about "toxic femininity," do we?

It seems many people are more likely to believe that women will be the saviors of the world, if we just let remove all barriers (both literal and figurative) and let them do whatever they want, be it murdering babies, erasing national borders, or whatever else they feel like. It's gotten so old that to even see the phrase "divine feminine" about makes me want to gag at this point, because I've known far too many of these people first-hand to still believe there is anything divine about them.

[greybeard]

i used to work with this jamaican dude years ago. he would be getting laid by different women almost daily. he's not sure how many kids he've got from whom. changed his mobile numbers quite frequently, so you get the idea.. his secret? as we did project together he would always have inear bluetooth speaker on, occasionally replying with "aha", "i hear you", "you're right", "ya man" etc. so spending several hours a day tolerating background noise would award him with a guaranteed session. part of me kind of admired him..

I know I could easily woo women by catering to their emotional feelings by simply doing those sorts of things, which would be being dishonest with myself on some level. I would consider that manipulation and 'easy' though ... I personally would feel little reward in getting laid that way -- too easy, and many of the women who would fall for that would do so simply because they are emotionally weak - I'm not into weak women.

Needless to say I don't get laid much, because I'm unwilling to do those sorts of things ... Cest la vie ... :)

I can identify with this.
All my long term relationships have been with strong women--my mother certainly was too.
She was successful in everything she did--so was my Father.

My best teachers were the relationships--painful at times--my ego got reduced--still some to go--maybe another teacher lurks around the corner.
My best friends have always been women.
Chris

[DeDukshyn]

Well I can certainly agree it sometimes feels this way, that is for sure. At the same time I imagine many women can also say the same thing about men and some of our issues (or just our general approach to things that differ from women). Its certainly a "human" phenomenon more than it is just a man or woman thing ... but us being only on one side admittedly have a bit of 'male' bias, of course. ;)

Of course men have issues as well, but we get beat up for it all the time. That's why you don't even feel comfortable criticizing the results of radical feminism ...

I don't feel comfortable criticizing radical feminism here, because that isn't the topic of this thread ... :) Just because one knows something, thinks something, or has an opinion doesn't necessarily mean that it a useful part of any conversation.

Don't project on to me, nothing good can out of it. But let's rather please continue to discuss this objectively. :)

[AriG]

Thank you, thank you! Thank you Bill! We haven’t had a good laugh in a while!! And so true

[Innocent Warrior]

Well I can certainly agree it sometimes feels this way, that is for sure. At the same time I imagine many women can also say the same thing about men and some of our issues (or just our general approach to things that differ from women). Its certainly a "human" phenomenon more than it is just a man or woman thing ... but us being only on one side admittedly have a bit of 'male' bias, of course. ;)

Of course men have issues as well, but we get beat up for it all the time. That's why you don't even feel comfortable criticizing the results of radical feminism ...

I don't feel comfortable criticizing radical feminism here, because that isn't the topic of this thread ... :) Just because one knows something, thinks something, or has an opinion doesn't necessarily mean that it a useful part of any conversation.

Don't project on to me, nothing good can out of it. But let's rather please continue to discuss this objectively. :)

Yes, thank you. This thread is about the differences between men and women.

* * *

There are very real differences between men and women and problems arise when this isn’t understood. The video in the OP is an example of a woman just wanting to be understood, while a man will typically go straight to the solution. The video in the OP isn’t quite accurate though because a woman, if she’s not a moron, will move on to a solution once she feels heard.

[DeDukshyn]

...
The video in the OP isn’t quite accurate though because a woman, if she’s not a moron, will move on to a solution once she feels heard.

That's exactly how I thought the video was going to end - with her finally letting him pull it out after she had a moment to just vent and be hear and understood. I agree, it would probably have been a little more accurate that way, in a general sense.

[onawah]

That guy had typical narcissistic and sociopath traits.
The women were not really examples of normal women, but women who he was able to hone in on and victimize because of their own pathology.
Narcissists and sociopaths reportedly have an instinct for tracking down their victims quite easily and skillfully.
But those patterns, thankfully, are not typical of ALL men and women.

i used to work with this jamaican dude years ago. he would be getting laid by different women almost daily. he's not sure how many kids he've got from whom. changed his mobile numbers quite frequently, so you get the idea.. his secret? as we did project together he would always have inear bluetooth speaker on, occasionally replying with "aha", "i hear you", "you're right", "ya man" etc. so spending several hours a day tolerating background noise would award him with a guaranteed session. part of me kind of admired him..

[Words of Joy]

Recognizable video. Me and my wife spent years struggling, to get into a balance that is acceptable for both. Headaches, frustrations, anger, pain, we both have seen quite a lot. Too much for my taste anyway. But I made a vow and intend to keep it, so we had to come up with a strategy, that would mellow out the fields of tension. Here's our strategy - and it may sound a bit odd: We bought two black boards with chalk. We wrote down two habits we would like the other to get rid off/lose and two traits we would like the other to add. We are evaluating them weekly and when the behavior is as we desire, we add a small stripe to it. If it failed somewhere a stripe is removed. When five stripes are reached, the item can be removed from the board, and a new item can be placed if desired.

We both have to give a little, but we get happiness, relational stability and traits we desire in our partner in return. And for us both that's worth a lot. :) I feel this changed our relationship in a good way. It's so clear, organized and effective. We're both happier more loving towards each other because of it.

[onawah]

That's a wonderful strategy, and I'm so glad it's working so well for you!
:clapping:

Recognizable video. Me and my wife spent years struggling, to get into a balance that is acceptable for both. Headaches, frustrations, anger, pain, we both have seen quite a lot. Too much for my taste anyway. But I made a vow and intend to keep it, so we had to come up with a strategy, that would mellow out the fields of tension. Here's our strategy - and it may sound a bit odd: We bought two black boards with chalk. We wrote down two habits we would like the other to get rid off/lose and two traits we would like the other to add. We are evaluating them weekly and when the behavior is as we desire, we add a small stripe to it. If it failed somewhere a stripe is removed. When five stripes are reached, the item can be removed from the board, and a new item can be placed if desired.

We both have to give a little, but we get happiness, relational stability and traits we desire in our partner in return. And for us both that's worth a lot. :) I feel this changed our relationship in a good way. It's so clear, organized and effective. We're both happier more loving towards each other because of it.

[petra]

the question would be to ask WHY MEN PREFER STUPID WOMEN?

Hah. Well I prefer SMART MEN... so what gives lol

Here's something that caught my eye in a book store once, I only needed a few minutes with the book to find out the answer: It's because Bitches are Confident. Confidence + stupidity sounds like a recipe for disaster to me tho!

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51rdG8GERfL._SX323_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

[Flash]

Recognizable video. Me and my wife spent years struggling, to get into a balance that is acceptable for both. Headaches, frustrations, anger, pain, we both have seen quite a lot. Too much for my taste anyway. But I made a vow and intend to keep it, so we had to come up with a strategy, that would mellow out the fields of tension. Here's our strategy - and it may sound a bit odd: We bought two black boards with chalk. We wrote down two habits we would like the other to get rid off/lose and two traits we would like the other to add. We are evaluating them weekly and when the behavior is as we desire, we add a small stripe to it. If it failed somewhere a stripe is removed. When five stripes are reached, the item can be removed from the board, and a new item can be placed if desired.

We both have to give a little, but we get happiness, relational stability and traits we desire in our partner in return. And for us both that's worth a lot. :) I feel this changed our relationship in a good way. It's so clear, organized and effective. We're both happier more loving towards each other because of it.

Let me, if you do not mind, dissect a bit what you are doing, since the recipe seems to work:

Intent (vision-commitment): both made a vow to make it work
Objectives: building a timely strategy to mellow the tensions about qualities (or lack of) which can be observed (quantifiable)
Actions: the black board with a system based on manageable in quantity traits (qualities or non qualities based) determined by the team members within a time frame.
Results: stripe removed or added showing the results in quality and quantity

You are entirely SMART in terms of objectives.

Wow, I would hire you to manage a whole team. Applying these (seen in business) to intimate relationships is almost never done, yet must be soooo efficient.

It also answers to the man's need: finding solutions that are observable, quantifiable
and to the woman's need: working of the soft issues (qualities or lack of) and being able to talk about it.

--------------------

Of course I had to check if you were a man or a woman, because this is very solutions and action oriented, and TATA, you are a man lollllllllllll

Make sure you let her express the subtleties of the qualities or lack of, it can take time since those are sometimes hard to process having to do with non linear non logical, in appearance, elements.

[Mike]

Recognizable video. Me and my wife spent years struggling, to get into a balance that is acceptable for both. Headaches, frustrations, anger, pain, we both have seen quite a lot. Too much for my taste anyway. But I made a vow and intend to keep it, so we had to come up with a strategy, that would mellow out the fields of tension. Here's our strategy - and it may sound a bit odd: We bought two black boards with chalk. We wrote down two habits we would like the other to get rid off/lose and two traits we would like the other to add. We are evaluating them weekly and when the behavior is as we desire, we add a small stripe to it. If it failed somewhere a stripe is removed. When five stripes are reached, the item can be removed from the board, and a new item can be placed if desired.

We both have to give a little, but we get happiness, relational stability and traits we desire in our partner in return. And for us both that's worth a lot. :) I feel this changed our relationship in a good way. It's so clear, organized and effective. We're both happier more loving towards each other because of it.



Slobbe I think that's brilliant!

I imagine there are ways to make this fun too, instead of a pin point presentation sort of thing. I can see how this could be really effective.

I bet you guys laugh alot while you're doing this too. What a great way to dissolve tension. Was this your idea or did you read about it somewhere?

[Words of Joy]

Let me, if you do not mind, dissect a bit what you are doing, since the recipe seems to work:
...
You are entirely SMART in terms of objectives.
...
Make sure you let her express the subtleties of the qualities or lack of, it can take time since those are sometimes hard to process having to do with non linear non logical, in appearance, elements.

I don't mind at all. It's an interesting perspective you offer. Thanks!

Maybe it helps I work in IT. Though honestly, it took me about 8 years of on-and-off frustration to get me to the point of stop arguing and come up with an action plan. We thought about counseling in earlier days, and my wife actually talked to a female psychologist, who told her that sometimes it's better to just go separate ways. Basically my wife directly lost faith in counseling because of that experience. We had no intent of leaving each other. After that we muddled on for years without a strategy. I learned, that sometimes talking/arguing about problems simply isn't enough. But it took time! Not sure how SMART that is. :)

My wife is from Peru. And language, though we both speak Dutch (and Spanish nowadays), still is a source of misinterpretation. Imperfections of knowing or misuse of a language, can cause unimaginable sidetracks. That's also something I learned the hard way. Thank God, my wife is talkative, and spews out all that doesn't sit right in her heart. Though sometimes it takes some time. If hearts are wired differently, then it can be a struggle to get to the middle. And then, listening sometimes can be difficult, if it doesn't align with your own heart. But you're right. It is really important to listen to what the other has to say. To give it room. To try and understand from the other's perspective. And to take it serious. Especially if the plan is to stay together for the rest of your lives.

[Words of Joy]

I imagine there are ways to make this fun too, instead of a pin point presentation sort of thing. I can see how this could be really effective.

I bet you guys laugh alot while you're doing this too. What a great way to dissolve tension. Was this your idea or did you read about it somewhere?

:D The writing on the board for the first time made us both laugh very hard. It had a mischievous feel to it also. Sort of like having four wishes in your hand and pondering on what to do with them. All kinds of things came to mind. It cracked us up.

It was a combined idea. In that sense, that my wife had suggested a board for other purpose before. I was thinking it could also be used for this, for the visibility and relief aspects of it. The key really was to find the will to have my partner cut away parts of my that feel like myself and add what would make her extra happy (with the consequent reprogramming that would follow because of this). After I decided to let it flow for love and peace sake wherever it would take us, I came up with the details. They came pretty naturally, as I needed a formula that would allow for me to get rid of some traits that were pushing my buttons in the wrong way, as well as a possibility to add traits I found lacking or improvable. And I knew we had to put in an evaluation mechanism, as a reminder and a motivation.

[Bill Ryan]

the question would be to ask WHY MEN PREFER STUPID WOMEN?

Hah. Well I prefer SMART MEN... so what gives lol

Here's something that caught my eye in a book store once, I only needed a few minutes with the book to find out the answer: It's because Bitches are Confident. Confidence + stupidity sounds like a recipe for disaster to me tho!

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51rdG8GERfL._SX323_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Here ya go: :)


http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Sherry%20Argov%20-%20Why%20Men%20Love%20Bitches%20-%20From%20Doormat%20to%20Dreamgirl%20_%20A%20Woman's%20Guide%20to%20Holding%20Her%20Own%20in%20a%20R elationship.pdf

[Agape]

Confident women??? On this Planet??? Do you mean someone like; Theresa May ?

There’s another movie about relationships and the otherworldliness to experience here, it’s funny, peoetic and not particularly biased towards either gender( in my opinion).

It’s called Alien Visitor ( or Epsilon) , Australian production.

Unlike the other “alien” movies this one is not well known or scary, it’s psychological, even spiritual at times and entertaining.

If you can find (free..) good copy on the web please give it a look. It is very much about “relationships”.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqUzA7wCVX4

:)

[5th]

Here ya go: :)


http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Sherry%20Argov%20-%20Why%20Men%20Love%20Bitches%20-%20From%20Doormat%20to%20Dreamgirl%20_%20A%20Woman's%20Guide%20to%20Holding%20Her%20Own%20in%20a%20R elationship.pdf


Worth a skim through for sure as it's not what you probably think!


"The bitch is an empowered woman who derives tremendous strength from the
ability to be an independent thinker, particularly in a world that still
teaches women how to be self-abnegating. This woman doesn’t live
someone else’s standards, only her own."

Oh and Agape, there's plenty of genuinely confident women where I live. Definitely varies from culture to culture. Interestingly, Spanish women were once found to be the most flirtatious in Europe. Conversely when I lived in Malta I found women to be the least confident and I only got about one smile a year...

[Flash]

Confident women??? On this Planet??? Do you mean someone like; Theresa May ?

There’s another movie about relationships and the otherworldliness to experience here, it’s funny, peoetic and not particularly biased towards either gender( in my opinion).

It’s called Alien Visitor ( or Epsilon) , Australian production.

Unlike the other “alien” movies this one is not well known or scary, it’s psychological, even spiritual at times and entertaining.

If you can find (free..) good copy on the web please give it a look. It is very much about “relationships”.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqUzA7wCVX4

:)

I remember seeing this movie, I liked it. An intelligent women ET caught on the planet.

But the small extract presented here ends up in a serious tone with:

"he had the beginning of a real problem on his hands,.. he wanted nothing more than to be rid of her"

Hilarious!! This precisely express my point, why do men like stupid women and are afraid of intelligent ones? This is not even good for keeping the specie alive!!

I remember talking with a man whose children were dilapidating the fortune made by his father. He was complaining about their lack of everything, ethic, intelligence, etc. And we were in a group of businessman listening.

I finally dared to say: "well, rich men like beautiful women, and stupid enough ones. Then, they make children with them. The second generation men like beautiful and stupid women. The intelligence gene has already been diluted once. So when it comes to the third generation, complete dilution takes effect, the whole crew can be quite ordinary or stupid.

The whole group of grown up rich men were mouth open, and I had no comments, zilt, nothing. Which is quite out of their habits.

So, tell me, what is so attractive in stupidity?

I have the same question for women wanting the tough looking or muscle only men. Shut up kind of and be nice. Why? laziness not wanting to change? laziness not wanting challenge? I cannot understand it really.

[AutumnW]

Flash,

The beautiful and stupid female stereotype is probably less common today in young women. In my day you could cast a glance over your classroom the first day back in school, after summer holidays and glean who would be dull.

If a little girl was a beautiful child, perfectly groomed, bows in their hair, you pretty much knew there wasn't going to be much inner life or spark there. But, this probably had more to do with how she was defined by her parents and others from the time she was a toddler.

From a young age, I considered beauty a curse--that these little girls would never be loved for who they really were. And as a result, their focus was pulled away from the world at large and focussed on their hair, their clothes etc..They weren't stupid, they were ignorant. So, not a genetic thing, I don't think.

A man's attraction to beauty serves a purpose. It may help to keep the species from degrading physically. There is a very basic reason really funny looking women don't get asked out as often. The funny looking might indicate some subtle genetic liabilities. And as most men are funnier looking than most women it's important they offset the tendency to assymetry.

[Flash]

I have taken this whole topic seriously for ages, but not anymore. Except when there is despise on either group or faulty pop psychology analysis serving this purpose.


And as most men are funnier looking than most women it's important they offset the tendency to assymetry.


Made me laugh a whole lot.

Believe me, most men still want women less intelligent than they are. It is less demanding on them. No need to be at par, no ego threathened, not too much change and inner understanding required.

At least true for men my age.

What I see in younger north american men is a tiny bit more liking of challenges and equal partnership.

What I see in the early twenties ones is in the extremes: equal partners without regard to differences due to sex (physical strenght for example or more danger in the street at night for women), or at the other hand the women beaters, sex slaves or porn like demands for example.

On the other side of it, women have become much more agressive, which was not the case in my generation. I do think that sometimes some women with their behavior seem to want to kind of castrate their partner (be dominating at all times).

So, sorry guys if you had women with a nail she would not want to see, or was unable to.. there are also many man with nails in the forehead they do not want to see before it is too late.

All I can say is that I know a bundle of women whom are nice, intelligent and loving from all ages.

The lesson: chosing right. And if we are at the end of the bell curve on either one of emotional intelligence, brain abilities to learn (IQ) or spiritual development, the choices become rather limited. Worst when at the end of the curve on all 3.

[Universoul]

So this thread seems to be going in its own direction.

I don't mean to divert that. I want to bring up something that might not have been talked about already (haven't read through every post).

Maybe the video isn't about men and women. Maybe it's about people who are so dense and self absorbed they can't see other ways of processing reality and problems.

That denseness can manifest in a man as him being like blind force seeking to dominate his surrounding/others. He may believe himself to be like a mighty comet barreling through the universe, yet he is a slave of that same material/insentient force at the same time. The "material matrix". That man won't find freedom until he learns to surrender and stop trying to control it all.

It can manifest in a woman when she wants to endlessly complain but is closed off to any help/improvement. The kind of woman who refuses to let any light in, or out. Maybe because she's addicted to the misery of her rut and like a broken record can't get unstuck. That woman won't find freedom until she learns to open up, to trust and let life happen again.

edit - roles can be reversed of course. It's more about masculine and feminine than men and women, whether we're self aware and expressing our archetypes in a conscious way or if they're using us to express in unconscious ways.

The polar opposite would be having an open mind toward different perspectives, working toward understanding that others may process reality in different ways. By doing so we help enrich ourselves/keep our own minds expansive and flexible, and create understanding with others. We help them feel validated. Ideally we meet those with whom it is reciprocal.

I think that the differences between the genders, and all differences, wouldn't be much of an issue if we all worked toward self awareness. Being able to see (and most importantly laugh at) ourselves. Being able to look at others with an open mind, learn to work with them. Learn to work with life, not force ourselves on it yet not deny ourselves.

Developing the consciousness takes self work, a lot of self effort and self integration. Perhaps some people are meant to work most of it out on a superficial level. So everything is a clash that happens on the outside. Like comets colliding and hopefully they learn from it. They gain more self reflection and consciousness. Some appreciation for self and the other.

We're all mixtures of the inner wakefulness and discipline to do the work "within", and needing to blindly collide through life to get our lessons. To varying degrees.

None of this is said to take away from the need to look at the differences between men/women and masculine/feminine in a self reflecting way. A way that looks at the virtues of both "sides" and how the differences complement. That is true for the Avalon forum yet not for the general population. There's a lot of attention on the differences these days in a way the media uses to create division. To play all sides and pit them against each other. That works to keep people walled off from self awareness and each other. I've noticed it a lot in the "real world" be it water coolers or social media. I don't know if it's just me or if it has gotten worse.

Ideally we don't fall to the extreme of self absorption, that we can't see beyond a narrow perspective or a nail.

[AutumnW]

I have taken this whole topic seriously for ages, but not anymore. Except when there is despise on either group or faulty pop psychology analysis serving this purpose.


And as most men are funnier looking than most women it's important they offset the tendency to assymetry.


Made me laugh a whole lot.

Believe me, most men still want women less intelligent than they are. It is less demanding on them. No need to be at par, no ego threathened, not too much change and inner understanding required.

At least true for men my age.

What I see in younger north american men is a tiny bit more liking of challenges and equal partnership.

What I see in the early twenties ones is in the extremes: equal partners without regard to differences due to sex (physical strenght for example or more danger in the street at night for women), or at the other hand the women beaters, sex slaves or porn like demands for example.

On the other side of it, women have become much more agressive, which was not the case in my generation. I do think that sometimes some women with their behavior seem to want to kind of castrate their partner (be dominating at all times).

So, sorry guys if you had women with a nail she would not want to see, or was unable to.. there are also many man with nails in the forehead they do not want to see before it is too late.

All I can say is that I know a bundle of women whom are nice, intelligent and loving from all ages.

The lesson: chosing right. And if we are at the end of the bell curve on either one of emotional intelligence, brain abilities to learn (IQ) or spiritual development, the choices become rather limited. Worst when at the end of the curve on all 3.

Good point about the extremes. Beta male porn addicts and beaters.

[Constance]

Watch and laugh, maybe quite a lot — because this is often so VERY true. :)

Thanks Bill :star:

Another little hilarious video that highlights the whole men are from Mars, the women are from Venus aspect :)

A tale of two brains
3XjUFYxSxDk

[petra]

Here ya go: :)


http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Sherry%20Argov%20-%20Why%20Men%20Love%20Bitches%20-%20From%20Doormat%20to%20Dreamgirl%20_%20A%20Woman's%20Guide%20to%20Holding%20Her%20Own%20in%20a%20R elationship.pdf


Worth a skim through for sure as it's not what you probably think!


"The bitch is an empowered woman who derives tremendous strength from the
ability to be an independent thinker, particularly in a world that still
teaches women how to be self-abnegating. This woman doesn’t live
someone else’s standards, only her own."



When I see this, the first woman I think of is Rosa Parks, and it's making me laugh. Indeed, she has changed the world.



I remember talking with a man whose children were dilapidating the fortune made by his father. He was complaining about their lack of everything, ethic, intelligence, etc. And we were in a group of businessman listening.

I finally dared to say: "well, rich men like beautiful women, and stupid enough ones. Then, they make children with them. The second generation men like beautiful and stupid women. The intelligence gene has already been diluted once. So when it comes to the third generation, complete dilution takes effect, the whole crew can be quite ordinary or stupid.

The whole group of grown up rich men were mouth open, and I had no comments, zilt, nothing. Which is quite out of their habits.

So, tell me, what is so attractive in stupidity?


I love this story! I did something similar in regards to vulgarity. Every second word out of their mouth was F, so I decided to have some fun with it.
I was SO VULGAR they all just stared at me, which is when I added: "Now isn't that attractive?"

Stupidity can't really be attractive.... I think we must be understanding it wrong. Let's give the men some credit here, they have two heads to contend with and we only have one (har har)



Believe me, most men still want women less intelligent than they are. It is less demanding on them. No need to be at par, no ego threathened, not too much change and inner understanding required.


I believe it but I think there's more to it. Some men have admitted to thinking women are simply incapable of understanding. Take in regards to freemasonry, how masons do not allow women at the highest levels - or in some cases not to even join. This is a "Landmark of Freemasonry" but no one knows why. If they think they're protecting women from something, maybe THEY are the stupid ones!

[Flash]

the videos are all snippets and interesting to look at without imposing too much on your time

Some answers to my question to "why men chose women stupider than themselves" - a bit of depth in the approach

It is more about men views than women, despite the title


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKYsf1A42O4

Biological and psychological factors attractive to women - very intelligent approaches imo (but hey, I am a woman, I am diminishing my chances by mentioning intelligence :facepalm: :ROFL:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsHrKvRqhzY

Peterson is quite funny in this video on marriage


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQI8sbUB5Bw

[Bill Ryan]

:bump::bump::bump: