Theresa May's Brexit deal faces vote in Parliament. [Archive]

norman

15th January 2019, 14:19

If they cancel brexit, expect a revolution.

Who sells cheap yellow vests?

£2.90 each
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Eric J (Viking)

15th January 2019, 14:29

I just cant see UK leaving the Market.
Chris.

Hi Chris...i just get fed up with the EU Eurocrats just clinging on to the UK money pot.

Forget the logistics of travel and business, everything will find its place and settle down in no time. No deal and we adopt WTO rules.

Lets make it simple. The whole Brexit show seems to be orchestrated to confuse the masses into another referendum or another deal in the Favour of the Eurocrat hoodlums. A Bloody mess...

Viking

greybeard

15th January 2019, 15:20

Agree Viking.
The propaganda will lead to staying.
We survived before with out being tied to the CM.
They need to trade with us regardless.
However its all been orchestrated right from the word EXIT!!!

Chris

greybeard

15th January 2019, 15:25

norman this is "Great Britain" --there will be some protest but no revolution
People are brain washed and fed up with it all--the majority will just be relieved when its all over no matter what way it goes.
Chris

enigma3

15th January 2019, 16:15

From an observer across the pond, it appears that Theresa May has caved to the Eurocrats, and anti Brexiteers in the UK, and come up with a Brexit plan that will not be palatable to Brits. It appears to be designed that way to keep the UK in the EU. But, in all probability it will have the opposite effect.

The best for the UK going forward would be to reject the May proposal and simply leave the EU come March 29th. Far less strings for Brussels to control after the UK leaves. And the markets will adjust. If this happens, globalism will take another shot to the gut.

Brussels, and May, are all about the politics of fear. Thanks for the link Tintin. I'll be checking in.

boja

15th January 2019, 16:27

NO DEAL sounds good to me.

We lived before the eu, and we will live after it.

Everybody under about 55 is not old enough to remember how well we managed.

I will admit that I MISTAKENLY voted in 1973 to join the eu. naiively thinking that it would be advantageous to be part of a large group.
After a few years I soon realised that it was not a good idea, and have been wanting to leave ever since.
Now that we have the opportunity, let's do it.
A lot of bad changes have been made to the British way of life over the past 45 years, let's start repairing the damage.

greybeard

15th January 2019, 16:29

enigma3
Think you are correct--there is no way the Brexit plan will get through Parliament.
That was obvious way back --so why Teresa May keeps hamering on as though she actually thought people would come round is not clear.
Long drawan out going no where--why
The Europeans don't want UK to leave hence unacceptable terms.
Where is it going?
I dont know--- but cant see that Labour is electable.

Chris

Clear Light

15th January 2019, 17:43

This isn't directly related to today's vote but I feel like it's worth sharing because of how "wise" these words sound ... remember it was June 2016, more than two years ago when the results of the Referendum came in but perhaps in the interim, people have since realised that such an Abstract decision to "Leave" actually isn't quite as simple as it sounds eh ?

As with Brexit, people should never be so simple-minded as to say “Let’s leave” without first knowing the terms & conditions of the divorce. There are *always* terms & conditions, we know that. And one set of terms & conditions might lead to prosperity, happiness, bluebirds, and free cake for everyone. And a different set of terms & conditions might lead to impoverishment, misery, and ruin. The Brexiteers all voted to divorce from the EU with no idea what the terms & conditions would actually be, or what lasting impact they will have, ignoring the other side's lawyers pointing to the pre-nup that plainly says there will be no free cake. They simply believed their own gasbags' promises of free cake. Rather weirdly, most Brexiteers knew more about the terms & conditions of their phone contracts and gym memberships than of Brexit. Hopefully, others will spot the lesson there.

sijohn

15th January 2019, 17:59

Britain must leave , imho, Britain is the only possible country with the where with all to achieve this , no deal brexit and wait for the EU to come to us for a deal if they dont the world market is huge.
Many other countries will follow Britains lead soon afterwards , the people of all countries must demand that their will is done and politicians and bureaucrats are servants of the people not the other way round.
History is in the making? lets see what happens, so much is at stake here. Fortitude and large stones required

greybeard

15th January 2019, 20:55

Theresa May faces immediate no-confidence vote from Labour after MPs hand her humiliating Brexit defea–

Theresa May suffers humiliating defeat as MPs vote down her deal by 432 votes to 202
– Jeremy Corbyn tables vote of no-confidence in attempt to trigger General Election
– EU says ‘now is the time to find out what UK parliamentarians want’
– Defeat cements Brexit deadlock increasing prospect Brexit could delayed

Jeremy Corbyn has tabled a motion of no-confidence in Theresa May’s Government after the Prime Minister was handed a crushing defeat in the crunch vote on her Brexit deal.

The Labour leader said the confidence vote, which is expected at 7pm tomorrow, would allow the Commons to ‘give its verdict on the sheer incompetence of this Government’.

It came immediately after MPs overwhelmingly rejected the PM’s agreement by 432 votes to 202, the worst defeat suffered by a UK Government in more than 100 years.

Builder

15th January 2019, 20:57

https://i.imgur.com/dsg9aCo.gif

enigma3

15th January 2019, 21:15

greybeard

15th January 2019, 21:35

The latest opinion polls show that quite a few members of the public have changed their minds about leaving.
So if it goes to another referendum the exit will probably be cancelled.
Chris

Eric J (Viking)

15th January 2019, 21:54

The latest opinion polls show that quite a few members of the public have changed their minds about leaving.
So if it goes to another referendum the exit will probably be cancelled.
Chris

I think we're still in for a few surprises....

Viking

sunwings

15th January 2019, 21:58

Here in 2015 David Cameron is speaking about the referendum at a Chatham House & The Royal Institute of international affairs conference.

Hearing it today it sounds more like a future prediction. Great Britain is about to tear itself apart, and both sides now have a valid argument.

gUsKWsPcRXE

Leavers were told they had the final decision, when in fact the 2016 referendum was nothing more than a survery/ opinion poll with no Legal binding.

After a catastrophic messy two year negotiating period and millions of pounds wasted , followed by a humiliating vote tonight, people now deserve a voice to stay.

Who would have thought a Politician in favour of staying, only to jump ship to the leavers in order to seize power would end up taking GB to the edge of a cliff. I will leave you with an extract from her April 2016 speech....

So this is my analysis of the rights and wrongs, the opportunities and risks, of our membership of the EU – and the reasons I believe it is clearly in our national interest to remain a member of the European Union.

And I want to emphasise that I think we should stay inside the EU not because I think we’re too small to prosper in the world, not because I am pessimistic about Britain’s ability to get things done on the international stage. I think it’s right for us to remain precisely because I believe in Britain’s strength, in our economic, diplomatic and military clout, because I am optimistic about our future, because I believe in our ability to lead and not just follow.

https://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2016/04/theresa-mays-speech-on-brexit-full-text.html

greybeard

15th January 2019, 22:12

As expected The PM is saying that the vote does not reflect what the people voted for in the referendum.
So she will cobble together plan B--in the hope of getting a majority for that--Ha ha.
The lady is not for turning.
Is she that unaware that the people have changed their mind.
They were sold a load of Sh~~ about what the exit would bring--all the benefits--all untrue.
Now they see through the lies and if there is another referendum the result is almost definitely going to be stay--forget Brexit.

Chris

Matthew

15th January 2019, 22:30

The EU will never let go. The Uk's exit proposal seemed doomed to fail from the start; not winning any hearts. Brexit probably really means no deal since the EU will never give up. Unified social/political/economic Europe in a few decades is beneficial only to people who want to take credit for that achievement in their lifetime. Why be unified with one system of government in such a rush? We already are one people at heart, despite our taxation system or what our coins look like.

Matthew

15th January 2019, 23:01

Wow! Crushing is right. So is the sentiment still to leave? It seems that the anti Brexiteers have tried to delay leaving until they can turn public sentiment into staying. Corbyn is not electable. What a mess. I hope the UK leaves, but not so heavily biased on EU terms.

Gosh yes, and I just can only wildly guess how this might pan out. The next couple of weeks is going to be telling!!!

My dream is No Deal followed by the birth of a new, more federal European union to rival the current controlling one, and see which one wins. That would be funny.

norman

16th January 2019, 00:27

I've posted an intervew with Raheem Kassam, former London Breitbart editor in chief, about the wider European situation.

Here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?105260-France-backs-down-delays-tax-increases-after-Paris-riots&p=1269791&viewfull=1#post1269791

sunwings

16th January 2019, 06:27

A No Deal situation is never going to happen, even both sides accept this now. (I don´t think I need to explain why :blushing:)

The British people have been betrayed not by the leavers but by Mrs May and her negotiators for coming back with an appalling deal.

David Cameron said clearly in the video I posted before that Britain had one chance to negotiate and there would be no re negotiations or second referendums, out would be out!

The conservatives have blown this chance, now the other parties can embark on a a stay campaign. The referendum was not legally binding but politicians have respectively allowed the negotiations to happen. But now the door to STAY has opened after the Conservatives blew this ONE chance for a deal.

angelfire

16th January 2019, 11:03

This has all been carefully engineered from the start. Get the worst possible deal on the table, have it roundly rejected and heigh ho, after a second referendum, we're back in the arms of the EU.

ripple

16th January 2019, 12:40

This has all been carefully engineered from the start. Get the worst possible deal on the table, have it roundly rejected and heigh ho, after a second referendum, we're back in the arms of the EU.

A possible but low odds scenario at this stage , imho -- my current odds 25%. But I actually do not care twopence either way and anyway .
Why ? Because , regardless , I see the EU crumbling hugely in the immediate term --- next two years . When the recession hits --- excuse me a second , I thought I heard it starting already --- there will be just a puddle of nations thrashing about and desperate to survive .
I believe the Yellow Jacket mentality and vitality will mushroom and change basics forever . And if the Paedophilia and Sex Trafficking scandals embrace London , Strasbourg and Brussels ( among others ) , there will be a huge change of guard . And not just at Buckingham Palace .

yelik

16th January 2019, 13:06

ripple

16th January 2019, 13:51

Following the vote to leave the EU the Tories voted for a leader who wished to remain - how does that work - how dumb is that?

The Government has not involved any skilled private sector negotiators to help get the best deal, it appears to have been kept all in house - for treasonous reasons

If we do have a second referendum because the Elites did not get the result they wanted I suspect more will vote to leave - even less trust in corrupt politicians

It seems to me that May's (Elites) Brexit plan was designed to fail and Europe cannot afford any other country to leave their crumbling pre-New World Order experiment

We can only speculate but my sense is that TPTB had no layered and detailed plan in the event of losing the referendum . A bit like the DNC over the water and in the mad house ! However , I do believe that all of the strands that broadly unite under a Globalist agenda have worked together to be maximum unhelpful and to be fear mongers .
The prospect of major unplanned change is something that we as a species find intolerable . And unfortunately under stress and strain a majority of people throw reason and sanity out of the window and err towards what they see as compromise and calm .
It will take very radical action to change that type of progression . But a Yellow Jacket revolutionary movement might achieve a different result if a Farrage type leader emerges . imho .

greybeard

16th January 2019, 15:15

Farrage is planning a return to politics.
Chris

greybeard

16th January 2019, 15:19

Barnier: EU ready to renegotiate Brexit deal if UK ‘shifts red lines’

Michel Barnier has responded to the crushing defeat of the Brexit deal he brokered with the UK government by offering to reopen negotiations – but only if the UK “shifts” its red lines.

The EU chief negotiator insisted the withdrawal agreement rejected by MPs on Tuesday remains the “best possible compromise” considering Theresa May’s aims of leaving the customs union and single market.

But Barnier opened the door to a new deal being forged if the cross-party talks promised by the prime minister leads to the UK seeking a closer relationship with the EU.

Speaking at the European parliament in Strasbourg, the French politician said: “If the UK chooses to shift its red lines in the future and if it makes the choice to be more ambitious, to go beyond a simple free trade agreement, then the EU would be immediately ready to go hand in hand with that development and to give a favorable response.”

Guy Verhofstadt, the European parliament’s Brexit coordinator, also urged MPs to “come out of the trenches” and work across parties to “redefine the red lines which were unilaterally imposed by the hardliners in the Conservative party.”

Their comments were a nod towards growing momentum behind a Norway-style deal, which would keep the UK in the customs union and single market.

However, the Economist’s Intelligence Unit believe that remains unlikely as MPs may fear being punished by voters for pursuing a Brexit path that retains free movement of labour—a central issue for “Leave” voters—and forces the UK to contribute to the EU budget and apply part of its policies without having a say on them.

Barnier said that “future steps must be indicated very clearly by the British government” and appeared more concerned about the prospect of a no-deal Brexit after the Commons vote.

“We are fearing more than ever that there is a risk of a no deal,” he said, as the clock ticks down towards the March 29 date at which the UK is scheduled to leave the EU.

Conservative MEP Syed Kamall said the EU would “have to wait a little longer” for clarity about the UK’s next move as May consulted opposition parties in a bid to find a way forward.

He also urged the European commission to learn the lessons from their 2015 renegotiation of Britain’s membership terms with the then prime minister David Cameron.

Arguing that some “tweaks” to that deal would have prevented the Brexit vote, he added: “I believe it would be a great pity if no further efforts were made to try to reach an agreement to try to help the British prime minister to forge an agreement at Westminster.”

Manfred Weber, leader of the largest group in the European parliament and the frontrunner to become the next commission president, warned though that the EU will have its own demands, such as continued freedom of movement, if negotiations are reopened.

READ MORE: EU ready for new talks with May after Brexit deal defeat

Many MEPs said the impasse at Westminster means the issue should be solved by a fresh referendum.

“Either a positive and credible majority on Brexit takes shape in the Parliament or you need to put the question back to the people,” said Robert Gualtieri, the Brexit spokesperson for Labour’s group in the European parliament.

UKIP MEP Nigel Farage said his continental colleagues would be “in for a big surprise” if there is a second Brexit vote.

“The British may be a very placid people, very laid back but I promise you that if they get pushed too far it’s a lion that will roar,” he said. “We will be even more defiant if we have to fight a second referendum and we’ll win it by a bigger majority.”

My underline of Farrage.
Chris

yelik

16th January 2019, 16:18

Let's not forget that Buckingham Palace / HM Queen likely has a powerful say in what her loyal subjects get up to. Perhaps the British Bavarian Royals want out of Europe for some reason or other

greybeard

16th January 2019, 20:39

Theresa May survives no confidence vote after Brexit defeat

An embattled Theresa May has survived a vote of no confidence in her Government – by just 19 votes.

Jeremy Corbyn had called the vote in an attempt to topple the Prime Minister after she suffered a bruising defeat on her Brexit deal yesterday – the largest defeat for a Government in modern history.

Mr Corbyn had hoped to trigger an early General Election with the help of rebel Tories and smaller parties, but Mrs May survived by 325 votes to 306.

Following the vote, Mrs May said she plans to hold meetings – starting on Wednesday night – with senior parliamentarians and party leaders.

She said: “I am pleased that this House has expressed its confidence in the Government

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/theresa-may-faces-battle-cling-power-mps-overwhelmingly-reject-brexit-deal-080341148.html

5th

16th January 2019, 20:42

Let's not forget that Buckingham Palace / HM Queen likely has a powerful say in what her loyal subjects get up to. Perhaps the British Bavarian Royals want out of Europe for some reason or other

This seems to be likely and the probably reason is that the EU is doomed to fail (or become something horrible) and the Queen wants to preserve her independence (and along with it, the UK's).

greybeard

16th January 2019, 20:55

If Britain leaves that could well start the many leaving.
Which is why it has been made so difficult for UK to leave.
If they got a great and favourable "divorce" settlement there would by now a que to get the same.

Chris

ripple

16th January 2019, 21:52

Hervé

17th January 2019, 02:33

Still Confused About Brexit? It's Actually Pretty Simple... (https://www.sott.net/article/405118-Still-Confused-About-Brexit-Its-Actually-Pretty-Simple#)

Joe Quinn Sott.net (https://www.sott.net/article/405118-Still-Confused-About-Brexit-Its-Actually-Pretty-Simple#)
Wed, 16 Jan 2019 23:31 UTC

https://www.sott.net/image/s25/506094/large/gettyimages_625288940.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s25/506094/full/gettyimages_625288940.jpg)

Brexit blather is back in the news again. To listen to politicians and media talking heads, you'd think it's all rather complicated and 'beyond the ken of mere mortals'. In reality, however, 'Brexit' is quite simple: for the last two and a half years, the British establishment has been trying to make Brexit go away.

Don't believe me? Explain why, then, that of the 650 UK Members of Parliament, about 70% come from constituencies where the majority of people voted for Brexit, while among all Members of Parliament about 70% have made it clear that they favor remaining in the EU.

In addition, the Conservative government which approved the referendum in 2015 was lead by David Cameron, who has always been against leaving the EU. His successor, Theresa May, who negotiated the pseudo-Brexit deal that would effectively keep the UK in the EU, and which was voted down yesterday by a massive majority in Parliament (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46885828), is also against Brexit.

So the obvious reason why the last 2.5 years of British politics has been an utter farce, and why the British people find themselves in this current mess, is that while a majority of British citizens voted to leave the EU, a large majority of their MPs on both sides of the aisle (and the British 'establishment' itself) do not want to leave the EU and are determined to make sure it never happens. To claim otherwise would be to suggest that British politicians were as clueless about the nature of the UK's relationship with the EU as the British public. But that's not the full story.

The decision that Brexit would not happen was taken immediately after the 'Leave' vote in the referendum in 2016, and that fact was evident to anyone with eyes to see. The politicking of the last 2.5 years had little to do with Brexit and everything to do with internal UK political power games, i.e. British political party mandarins and individual politicians feathering their own nests with an eye on their future positions within the British political system, which they are sure will remain an integral part of the EU. The Conservative strategy so far has been to hold on to power by attempting to convince their voter base (who want Brexit) that Theresa May's 'deal' is actually Brexit, when it clearly isn't at all. The EU has been on exactly the same page as Theresa May all along.

At the same time, the main opposition Labour party has correctly seen 'Brexit' as their best chance to force both a no-confidence vote in May's government and another snap general election to take power themselves. The no-confidence vote happened this evening and, as expected, the Conservatives survived (https://www.rt.com/uk/448976-may-tories-win-confidence/) given their slim majority in Parliament and the support of Northern Ireland's 'more British than the Queen' Democratic Unionist Party (which has its own agenda to prevent the breakup of the United Kingdom and the reunification of Ireland). Basically, when Conservative politicians are asked if they have confidence in themselves, they'll always answer 'yes'.

It should be remembered that the only motivation for then-Conservative Party leader David Cameron to 'green light' the Brexit referendum was these same internal political power considerations. At the time, the Conservative party was concerned that the 'far-right' UKIP party - which had been leading a decades-long campaign for the UK to leave the EU - would steal most of the country's traditional Conservative voters (the majority of whom wanted to leave the EU) and effectively replace the Conservative party. That is why Cameron, even though he was an ardent 'Remainer', assented to the referendum. At the time, the bi-partisan British political establishment was convinced that - when it came down to it - the majority of voters would vote to remain in the EU. When a majority voted for Brexit, they were more than a little shocked.

But an important question that has been mostly overlooked throughout the Brexit face is; what, exactly, galvanized so many British people to vote to leave the EU definitively?

https://www.sott.net/image/s25/506095/large/vvjucmrof4ymeihzellu.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s25/506095/full/vvjucmrof4ymeihzellu.jpg)

The British - or, more specifically, the English, who make up more than 80% of the UK population - have always seen themselves as a 'people apart' when it comes to Europe. Their tendency towards jingoism and their historical supremacist attitude toward the 'other', coupled with their position as a relatively large island off-shore the European continent, makes them constitutionally leery of being 'swallowed up' by the EU. But something happened in recent years to push them over the line of wanting to leave the EU.

By the time the Brexit vote was held in 2016, the US/Western-led 'war on terror' was in its 15th year. This is a war that the vast majority of people in Western nations understand as a war on 'Muslim terror', for obvious reasons (the 9/11 attacks were carried out - or certainly made to look like they were carried out - by Muslims). During those 15 years, multiple major 'Muslim terror attacks' on European and US soil served to confirm to many people in Western nations that radical Muslims were indeed intent on attacking and killing as many 'Westerners' as possible. This perception was dramatically strengthened after 2013/2014 when 'ISIS' appeared on the public radar with high definition videos of 'infidels' (including Westerners) being beheaded, crucified, burned alive, drowned in cages or thrown off buildings.

The Western press, ever dutiful to its job of spooking the public, enthusiastically reported on ISIS' horrific exploits. But by the end of 2015, the same press was ALSO widely reporting (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/555434/Islamic-State-ISIS-Smuggler-THOUSANDS-Extremists-into-Europe-Refugees) that ISIS was smuggling its members among refugees arriving in Europe, and that it was precisely due to the UK's membership of the EU that so many refugees were arriving in the UK. As if to prove the truth of this claim, 2015 saw more horrific 'Muslim terror attacks' in France, the UK and the USA, with many more high-profile 'terror plots' foiled in many countries. In addition, almost daily reports streamed in describing ISIS' ongoing rampage across Syria and Iraq and their plan to establish a 'caliphate' that would stretch into Western Europe.

So it was in this climate that a traditionally EU-averse British people were asked if they wanted to leave the EU, with the clear implication that leaving would give them back control over their borders (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-latest-news-leave-eu-immigration-main-reason-european-union-survey-a7811651.html), thereby reducing the number of terror attacks, or so they believed (and still do). That the Brexit 'yes' vote was all about immigration was echoed by Cameron when he claimed that "he could have avoided Brexit had European leaders let him control migration." Theresa May and other members of her party have since publicly acknowledged that immigration was the central issue that lead to the vote to leave the EU. As I have noted, however, the cause for such sudden concern over immigration was terrorism, and terrorism which, a lot of evidence suggests (https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/ian-sinclair/britain-s-collusion-with-radical-islam-interview-with-mark-curtis), the British state had a hand in.

But why is the British establishment united in its rejection of the people's vote to leave the EU? Clear economic reasons are one factor, (https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/huge-hole-mays-immigration-pledge-post-brexit-083301359.html?guccounter=1) but even more important for the British establishment is the access to and control over other European nations (they call it 'security cooperation') which membership of the EU provides. Consider the recent revelations (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-15/integrity-initiative-and-affiliates-behind-multiple-attacks-disobedient-media) about the UK govt/military propaganda/influence outfit, 'Integrity Initiative' (II), which operates ramified networks of 'influencers' within many EU government and media centers.

Equipped with a complete lack of actual integrity, this subversive, anti-democratic influence operation is but a current expression of a long-standing practice. Clearly founded upon historical military-intelligence relations (https://www.sott.net/article/404581-Inside-Integrity-Initiatives-desperate-attempt-to-sabotage-Russian-German-relations) with other NATO members, Integrity Initiative is, among other things, producing 'eyes only' reports for German elites (https://www.sott.net/article/404589-How-Integrity-Initiatives-German-cluster-aims-to-end-Berlins-ties-with-Moscow) warning them of the dangers of 'joining the dark side' by developing warmer relations with Moscow. Thanks to the tranches of documents written in their own words (https://www.sott.net/article/404542-Is-Deep-State-Ruled-From-Britain-How-British-Intelligence-Linked-Integrity-Initiative-Drafted-US-For-New-Cold-War), we need not speculate on the value of remaining within the EU for the British establishment:
"The US needs to rebuild its understanding of Russia and how to deal with it," while "the UK needs reminding how to play its key role of encouraging/enabling US leadership in Europe/NATO." Ideologically-aligned with the US 'deep state', British career diplomats and 'securocrats' have for many decades (some would say centuries) sought to control as much of the world as possible. For such pathological types, this domination and control is not a means to an end, but an end in itself. In short, outside of the EU, this UK-US means of control over the direction of Europe and its people dries up.

So where does 'Brexit' go from here? Clearly both of the main UK parties are in big trouble. Neither of them want Brexit of any significant kind, but both want power. Today the Conservatives saw off a no-confidence vote in their government, so their grip on power is secure, for now. Negotiations between Theresa May and her cabinet and the main opposition parties is underway. The common goal is to find a way to make Brexit go away. The only solution I can see to this political impasse which can achieve that goal while fending off the Labour party and ensuring that the Conservatives serve out their term until the next general election in 2022, is - as I have been saying for two years now - a new referendum that will have to be rigged to reflect a 'Remain' vote. (If you think 'they would never', think again (https://www.sott.net/article/286355-Special-Report-Scottish-Referendum-Rigged-The-How-and-the-Why).) The majority that is for Brexit would have to accept that they have, apparently, been defeated, and the Conservative government would focus on bull****ting the English Brexiteers that they tried their hardest but, alas, 'democracy is democracy'.

Will the English people accept it? Perhaps one of the only examples of honesty from a British politician in recent years was provided today by former Brexit secretary David Davis, who said that there will be (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/jan/16/brexit-vote-theresa-may-faces-no-confidence-vote-after-crushing-defeat) "quite visible anger" among the public if the UK has not left the EU or begun a transition process to withdraw by April. "It will be really serious indeed," he said. That's quite possible, and while a 'yellow vest' type uprising in the UK may not be appealing to the British establishment or the people, it may be the only option to further expose the real problem in so-called Western democracies today: an almost complete disconnect between the people and their increasingly corrupt leaders.

https://www.sott.net/avatar/friend/14 (https://www.sott.net/article/405118-Still-Confused-About-Brexit-Its-Actually-Pretty-Simple#searching) Joe Quinn (https://www.sott.net/article/405118-Still-Confused-About-Brexit-Its-Actually-Pretty-Simple#searching) https://www.sott.net/images/20_user.png (https://www.sott.net/user/14-Joe)

yelik

17th January 2019, 10:32

ripple

17th January 2019, 11:10

You do not have to channel or be a seer to see that the EU's days are numbered , regardless of how we fumble to our own short term conclusion .
Forget your concerns over the powers of our Royal Family -- almost none in my belief -- once a country like Italy fails , many of the the major banks in Germany and France will belly up . It will be like watching a game of dominos where the countries themselves are the chips .
And if secret weapon Steve Bannon and his merry band are able to whip up some popular risings , they will . imho

Ripple
Make no mistake that absolutely NOTHING in HM Governments happens without Buckingham Palace approval - every single day car loads of Ministerial documents are delivered late at night to Buckingham Palace for their approval. The queen is one of the richest and most powerful people on the planet - one of the Elite and true ruler from the shadows.

All senior Government officials and Military Personal swear allegiance to the Queen and not the people

Also - The Commonwealth comprises 53 countries, across all continents. The members have a combined population of 2.4 billion people, almost a third of the world population, of which 1.26 billion live in India and 94% live in Asia and Africa combined. HM Queen can quickly muster up one of the biggest and most powerful armies in the world - via NATO

Calm down , Yelik , there is no secret plot .The Queen's consent is necessary to turn any bill into an actual law. Once a proposed law has passed both houses of Parliament, it makes its way to the Palace for approval, which is called "Royal Assent." And incidentally , the most recent British Monarch to refuse to provide Royal Assent was Queen Anne, back in 1708. The reason they reach the Palace late at night is because house proceedings often finish late at night and occasionally very early in the morning .
Anyway , Betty --- her affectionate family name , as per Frank Spencer's wife --- likes nothing better than a couple of medicinal glasses , a bit of TV and then early to bed . She has neither the time , energy or high IQ ( apologies Betty ) to be embroiled in high level shenanigans .
As for her raising a 2.4 billion army using NATO as proxy --- I shall be the first to join ."What larks " , as someone famously said in a Dicken's weekly penny dreadful .

ripple

17th January 2019, 11:56

REFERENCE , AS PER POST 36 :-- Still Confused About Brexit? It's Actually Pretty Simple... Joe Quinn Sott.net Wed, 16 Jan 2019 23:31 UTC

By Jove . Mister Quinn is very long winded over what he describes as a simple matter .
However , this essential matter is so simple that it is generally already recognised as such and does not need a Joe Somebody to think that he has found it for us as though we are incapable .
It is the Globalists vs Populists battle and the need for those already embedded within the hierarchy not to lose their positions .Their need to retain power and wealth . And for the 'others' to see that they need to actively fight if they are going to win something to their real advantage
And all 'we ' need is a leader to fly the flag and fight the enemy .
Unfortunately potential populist leaders have become much more savvy of late and are not prepared for personal martyrdom --- Nigel Farrage , Tricky Dicky Davies , Boris and our slippery but clever friend Mister Gove -- to name but a few .
We need somebody brash and resonant to emerge -- somebody clueless and expendable to be a martyr for the cause .
Let us hope that this potential time tilt point morphs into big change through the arrival of a mini - Donald , as a predictable example .Trump , not Duck .

Did You See Them

17th January 2019, 14:05

Pitch forks and yellow vests are being stock pilled as we speak.
If they want ANOTHER referendum ( or "Peoples Vote" - as they now like to term it to make it sound like a different or new animal !) let them !
We wont accept it lying down.
Anyways if we are to be led by Europe why do we need our middlemen ( UK Government ) - lets get rid of the over paid clowns, demolish parliament, build some new dwellings for whoever we let in and then take our orders from their New Reich they establish. I wont be here.

greybeard

17th January 2019, 20:21

A semi-Brexit, with just England and Wales leaving the EU, is the solution

When all solutions are bad, it’s time to reinvent the problem. Is it still possible to honour the initial Brexit referendum without crossing the EU’s red lines? Yes – through semi-Brexit.

The UK is divided into four nations, two of which voted remain and two of which voted leave. The British government could honour those decisions and allow Scotland and Northern Ireland to remain in the EU as the successor state to the UK, while permitting England and Wales (if it still wants to) to exit.

Semi-Brexit does not mean breaking up the UK. Rather the reverse: semi-Brexit may be the only way to hold the UK together. If the UK drags Scotland and Northern Ireland out of the EU, the chances of a UK breakup are much higher. But if Scotland and Northern Ireland remain, then England and Wales would have more flexibility to negotiate a better deal. Third states – that is, states outside the EU – cannot cherry-pick the bits of the EU that they want and reject those bits they don’t. But parts of EU member states that are otherwise outside the EU can.

At least 35 countries and territories already have special deals with the EU that include, for example, free movement of goods into the EU without triggering the free movement of EU nationals back. Or deals that include something close to free trade without the jurisdiction of the European court of justice (ECJ). And on and on and on. The combinations of inside-EU privileges with extra-EU independence are very nearly endless. And they already exist.

There’s just one catch: the territories that get to cherry-pick from the EU in these ways must remain constitutionally attached to a current EU member state. From “outermost regions” (nine of them) to “overseas territories” (25 of them) to bespoke agreements with the EU on the part of special regions (a half dozen or so), far-flung – and not so far-flung – territories have worked out special arrangements with the EU through their associated member state.

One does not have to look far to see how. The Isle of Man has free trade with the EU for agricultural and manufactured products but is otherwise not bound by EU law. Guernsey has free trade in goods more generally, but no EU nationals have free movement rights into Guernsey. In fact, the array of models one could use for a bespoke deal for England and Wales is nearly endless. But getting these options requires part of the UK to stay in the EU.

How would this be possible? The EU law questions are relatively easy while the heavy lifting, legally speaking, falls to UK constitutional law. The ECJ has just held that the UK can halt article 50 unilaterally. By doing that, the UK could put its negotiations with the EU on a different track.

Of course, the EU wouldn’t tolerate an open-ended Brexit process wreaking havoc with long-term planning. The EU would have to know soon how to figure the UK into its parliamentary election cycle in 2019 and new budget cycle shortly after that. If, however, the UK were to announce that Scotland and Northern Ireland were staying in the EU while England and Wales exited, then the number of MEPs the new UK should elect in the new European parliament follows a formula. Ditto with the budget contribution. With these adjustments, the EU could go ahead and plan its future.

Once the UK’s parameters in Europe were settled, the EU could begin negotiations with England and Wales over a new long-term relationship. The EU framework for special territories has no draconian deadlines – by contrast with the short deadlines of article 50.

The harder transitional questions fall in UK constitutional law. The Westminster parliament would have to give the four nations the power to make international agreements in their own name so that each could remain a member of the EU (or not) separately. All subject areas covered by EU law would have to be devolved from Westminster to the four nations so that they could ensure harmonisation of their laws with EU law (or not).

In the current UK constitution, however, the four nations are not equal: England would have to acquire its own parliament to receive the devolution. This idea has been well mooted already so plans are already available. In fact, the creation of an English parliament would bring self-government home even more dramatically than Brexiteers promised.

Beyond that, there are questions about how to organise borders for whatever would not flow freely between the EU and the part of the UK that left. To control the flow of people, England and Wales could require residency and work permits for foreigners who live and work on its territory while the part of the UK that remained in the EU would allow free movement. UK corporations that wanted the benefits of EU status could reincorporate in Scotland while keeping their current offices in London – and charging a reasonable reincorporation tax would float Scotland’s budget again.

In semi-Brexit, England and Wales might be able to negotiate free movement of exports under arrangements similar to those of the Channel Islands. If the EU were unwilling to go that far, however, arrangements for the movement of goods would, under this proposal, at least be displaced from the fraught international border between the UK and Ireland to the less-fraught borders between England and Wales and the rest of the UK. Without the pressing March deadline of article 50, these questions could be resolved in their own time. Perhaps Northern Ireland could even form a government by then.

If England and Wales wanted one day to get back into the EU after semi-Brexit, re-entry would be easier than if the whole UK left. A single unanimous vote of the European council is sufficient for re-entry. In the process of re-entry, England and Wales would not lose all of their special agreements and opt-outs because the remaining UK would retain them.

With semi-Brexit, the UK could honour the referendum and allow each part of the UK to get what it voted for. Semi-Brexit would also give the EU a graceful way to provide a better deal for England and Wales. Isn’t semi-Brexit, then, the least worst path forward?

• Kim Lane Scheppele is the Laurance S Rockefeller professor of sociology and international affairs at Princeton University
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/semi-brexit-just-england-wales-090013312.html

ripple

17th January 2019, 20:40

Kim Lane Scheppele is the Laurance S Rockefeller professor of sociology and international affairs at Princeton University

Says it all .
God help us. Fast .

greybeard

17th January 2019, 21:13

Kim Lane Scheppele is the Laurance S Rockefeller professor of sociology and international affairs at Princeton University

Says it all .
God help us. Fast .

Her "suggestion" is not going to happen., very clever but lacking ---not realistic!!!

Chris

greybeard

18th January 2019, 14:16

Brexit news latest: MPs tell Theresa May 'Let us decide or we'll quit'

Theresa May faces a mass walkout of ministers if she orders them to stop Parliament taking control over Brexit, the Evening Standard has learned.

A number of Cabinet ministers have given private assurances to senior backbenchers that they will refuse to vote against a crucial amendment empowering the House of Commons to drive the agenda on Brexit.

A bigger group of about 20 middle-ranking and junior ministers is threatening to resign if Chief Whip Julian Smith attempts to instruct them to oppose a crucial amendment.

The extraordinary rebellion was revealed as the Government desperately tried to avoid defeat by announcing that voting on a Plan B promised by the Prime Minister is being unexpectedly postponed until January 29.
Andrea Leadsom revealed the new date for the next Brexit vote in the Commons on Thursday (REUTERS)

Furious MPs said the delay, announced by Commons Leader Andrea Leadsom, appeared to be another attempt to run down the clock towards Brexit Day on March 29.

Mrs May will make a statement on her plans on Monday, as expected, but voting on her motion will not be allowed for another eight days.
Brexiteers arrive at the cabinet office on January 17 (Getty Images)

The delay will also apply to the amendment designed to put Parliament in the driving seat that is being put down by former ministers Nick Boles and Sir Oliver Letwin with a cross-party group of senior MPs, including Labour’s Hilary Benn and Yvette Cooper.

In other developments:

A poll revealed support for Remain has risen sharply amid the Brexit turmoil to 56 per cent, compared with 44 per cent for Leave.
Former Labour prime minister Tony Blair criticised the party’s leader Jeremy Corbyn for refusing to take part in crisis Brexit talks with the Prime Minister unless she rejects no deal.
The Prime Minister and Cabinet ministers were holding more talks with senior MPs to break the deadlock in Parliament.

Mr Boles, one of the leaders of the rebellion, told the Standard: “A large single-digit-number of Cabinet ministers have told me they will not vote against the amendment.

“A larger number of up to 20 ministers outside Cabinet say they will resign if they are whipped to vote against the amendment.”

He added: “If anything this is gathering greater momentum across the House.”

The effect of the amendment would be to temporarily suspend the Commons standing orders that give the Government control over the timetable of the House. That would allow cross-party groups to pass laws of their own if they can command a majority.

Under the plan, a European Union Withdrawal Number 2 Bill would be voted on, which, if passed, would force the Government to delay the UK departure from the EU and seek a fresh soft-Brexit deal.

The amendment and the Bill were boosted today after confirmation that Chancellor Philip Hammond told business leaders that he believed the backbench amendment would take the threat of a no-deal departure “off the table”.

He also predicted support for the Bill, saying it would postpone Brexit.

Writing in today’s Standard, Sir Oliver said the Bill would ensure that Parliament could kill off the “glistening unicorns”, including Boris Johnson’s call for a managed no deal, which the EU would reject.

He also called on Mrs May to show more flexibility in her red lines in talks with opposition MPs.

“If the Prime Minister sticks like glue to her ‘red lines’, I can guarantee that she will not get a majority,” he said.

norman

18th January 2019, 16:32

If the queen backs her, May can stick around until the deadline passes. Nothing will change without the signatures of the prime minister and the queen.

My fingers are so crossed they are white.

greybeard

18th January 2019, 18:00

Brexit news latest: Theresa May refuses to budge on no deal and issues official call-out for troops to help manage EU exit chaos
Evening Standard Simon Johnson,Evening Standard Thu, 17 Jan 11:14 GMT

Theresa May today rebuffed growing calls to rule out a no-deal Brexit by issuing a formal call-out notice for troops to help manage any chaos triggered by Britain crashing out of the EU.

Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson told Parliament that 3,500 regular and reserve forces would be ready to be deployed across the country.

They could swiftly bolster responses to any no-deal threats to the “welfare, health and security of UK citizens” and to the “economic stability of the UK”, the Ministry of Defence stressed. Military fuel tanker drivers, engineers, planners and logistics experts could be sent in to deal with any food, medicine and petrol shortage crises, as well as offering support in Whitehall and to town halls.

Mr Willamson said: “We will have 3,500 service personnel held at readiness, including regulars and reserves, in order to support any government department on any contingencies they may need.”
Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson (AP)

In another development, it was claimed a group of ministers are threatening to resign if they are ordered to vote against moves to empower Parliament to take key decisions on Brexit.

Tory MP Nick Boles said he had been assured by a “large single-digit number” of Cabinet ministers that they will not vote against the cross-party plan.

As the military plans gathered pace:

A new poll revealed support to Remain in the EU had risen sharply amid the Brexit turmoil to 56 per cent, compared with 44 per cent Leave.
Tony Blair criticised Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn for refusing to take part in crisis Brexit talks with the Prime Minister unless she rejects no deal.
Shadow international trade secretary Barry Gardiner insisted Mrs May had to “take away the gun that she has been trying to hold to Parliament’s head by saying ‘it’s either my deal or no deal’.”
The Prime Minister and Cabinet ministers were holding more talks with senior MPs to break the deadlock in Parliament.

Cabinet minister Liz Truss publicly rejected Britain staying in a customs union, despite Mrs May appearing to have softened her red line on this issue after her Brexit blueprint was crushed this week in the worst defeat suffered by a government.
France triggered a contingency plan for a no-deal Brexit, including a £44 million fund for ports and airport.

This morning Mr Williamson issued a call-out order for about 350 Army reservists to reinforce regular Army units, act as liaison officers and provide specialist skills.

They are set to get call-up notices from February 10 to join the no-deal contingency operation. At the same time, thousands of regular forces are being identified ready for deployment.

More than 20 Armed Forces officers are already working in Whitehall departments, including the Home Office and Department for Transport.

greybeard

18th January 2019, 18:28

I am mesmerized
How can the PM be in so much denial?
Chris

greybeard

18th January 2019, 18:34

Brexit latest: Nigel Farage tells Leave voters to 'face reality' and prepare for second referendum
Evening Standard Evening Standard 14 hours ago

Nigel Farage has urged Leave campaigners to prepare for a second referendum as the Brexit deadlock continues.

The former Ukip leader spoke at a packed Leave Means Leave rally in London, telling Brexiteers they must “face reality in the face”.

The MEP spoke alongside former Conservative leader Iain Duncan-Smith, MP Esther McVey and Hotelier Rocco Forte.

Mr Farage said he believed "it is now quite possible that we will see an extension of Article 50".
Nigel Farage at a Leave Means Leave rally at Central Hall in London (PA)

"When I've talked in the past about being worried that they may force us into a second referendum.

"I don't want it anymore than you do but I am saying to you we have to face reality in the face.

"Don't think the other side aren't organised, don't think the other side aren't prepared, don't think they haven't raised the money, don't think they haven't got the teams in place, they have."

The audience at the Leave Means Leave rally were fired up and heckling throughout the nights speeches.

Mr Duncan-Smith said Britain's "greatness" lies in the post-Brexit future.

He added: "I love this country dearly, I love it with all my heart.

"I love people whether they're Remainers or Leavers, I don't care.

"But I know one thing, this country's greatness lies ahead of it and we have an opportunity and a duty to deliver it.
Theresa May is holding talks in an effort to break the deadlock on Brexit (Getty Images)

"I pledge to you tonight, I will not sleep, I will not rest, I will not wake to find a Britain that is otherwise than independent and free once again."

He branded the EU a "political project that we have never fully been told the truth about" and described anti-Brexit arguments as "a load of rubbish".

Mr Duncan-Smith shared an anecdote from his time as work and pensions secretary during a visit to Berlin, when he said to German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, "just like the rest of you I've sat here for an hour and I've now lost the will to live".

But afterwards he was told his joke had translated in French to him being "terminally ill" rather than "losing the will to live".

And Ms McVey said she asked the cabinet to vote on Mrs May's deal before it was taken to the commons as she could not "put her name on it" and there were "dissenting voices" in the cabinet against it.

She said the decision was down to the Prime Minister whether to have a vote but she was "shouted down and told we were not going to do it".

Ms McVey said she and her fellow Brexit MPs "are fighting hard, fighting hard for you, and will not rest as a minority in parliament until you get what you voted for".

norman

18th January 2019, 19:06

In a longer view ( but not very long ), it might not make a lot of difference which cabal of political blocks wins this debacle. If the "EU" keeps going the way it is, it will hit a brick wall and we won't need to be having this stupid argument about being in it or not. It just won't be there, to be a part of. Europe will find it's proper feet again and learn to get on with being Europe and respect people better.

Leaving the EU was only ever going to be the first step to getting rid of it, even as an uncomfortably near neighbour. It's not Europe that's the problem, it's the bunch of nazis running it. Project Europe is their idea, not ours or anyone else's from whichever member "state" . The people of Europe will still be Europeans long after we've cleared out the top layer of crooks.

Clearing out those crooks, is the job at hand, however we do it. Brexit was a chosen, if rather Brit centric and selfish method, but there are more ways to skin a cat. A huge and quickly growing mass of Europeans want to get rid of Project Europe. If we are going to "remain" we should just get on with the job of putting an end to Project Europe, shoulder to shoulder with everyone else.

Hey, instead of being the odd one out, there could be a massive common celebration all across the nations of Europe when we all, and together, become Project Europe free again. Now that is the kind of European unity I can relate to.

greybeard

21st January 2019, 16:27

'Nothing has changed': Corbyn accuses May of 'deep denial' after her refusal to compromise over Brexit
Yahoo News UK Ross McGuinness,Yahoo News UK
Monday January 21st

Jeremy Corbyn has accused the Prime Minister of being ‘in denial’ over her Brexit strategy after she failed to outline a new approach towards the negotiations in a speech in Parliament.

Parroting the phrase famously used by Theresa May, the Labour leader said that ‘nothing has changed’ since the PM’s historic defeat in the House of Commons last week.

Mrs May addressed MPs to outline her latest approach to Brexit after MPs roundly rejected the agreement she negotiated with the EU by a margin of 230 votes.

Pro and anti Brexit protesters demonstrate outside the Houses of Parliament (Picture: PA)There was little indication of compromise, with the Prime Minister once again ruling out a second referendum and an extension to Article 50 but stopping short of announcing an alteration to her position.

However she did announce that the £65 fee for EU citizens to secure the right to live in UK after Brexit will be scrapped after outcry from campaign groups.

Mrs May promised talks with MPs from all parties, including the DUP, to hear their concerns about the Irish backstop arrangement in her deal.

She said: “I will be talking further this week to colleagues, including in the DUP, to consider how we might meet our obligations to the people of Northern Ireland and Ireland in a way that can command the greatest possible support in the House.

“And I will then take the conclusions of those discussions back to the EU.”

Mr Corbyn branded her cross-party talks a ‘sham’.

He said: “Every opposition party politician came out of those meetings with the same response.

“Contrary to what the Prime Minister just said there was no flexibility, there were no negotiations – nothing had changed.”
Jeremy Corbyn called the PM’s cross-party Brexit talks a ‘PR sham’.

The idea of amending the backstop was shot down by the EU before it was even announced, as European leader dismissed her move as ‘party politics’.

The EU’s Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier said that the current deal, including the backstop, is ‘the best deal possible’.

He also dismissed speculation that the UK could negotiate with Ireland alone to overcome the backstop issue.

Pressed whether there was any scope for a bilateral deal between the UK and Ireland, he responded: “We are one team.”

greybeard

21st January 2019, 18:07

Brexit: Theresa May seeks to bypass EU with Ireland treaty as No 10 labels MPs’ attempt to give parliament control ‘extremely concerning’

Theresa May will launch a fresh bid to win support for her rejected Brexit deal by trying to bypass the European Union and secure a bilateral Brexit treaty with Ireland, according to reports.

The move, which comes as No 10 expresses extreme concern at a backbench bid to give parliament control of Brexit, would see the UK try to convince Ireland to agree a plan for keeping the Northern Ireland border open after Britain leaves the EU.

Officials are said to believe that such an agreement could remove the need for the controversial backstop part of Ms May’s Brexit deal, which is the leading cause of Tory and DUP opposition to the plan and the main reason it was overwhelmingly rejected by MPs last week.

Ms May will update the Commons on Monday on how she plans to proceed after the crushing defeat.

Under the new proposal being discussed by No 10, the Sunday Times reports, the UK would try to convince the Irish government to negotiate a treaty that would remove the need for the backstop, which Brussels insisted on as an insurance policy to ensure an open border is maintained even if the EU and UK cannot agree a trade deal.

The arrangement would see the UK enter into a temporary customs union with the EU, and Northern Ireland agree to abide by European rules on goods until a subsequent deal was reached.

A Downing Street source said talk of a bilateral agreement with Ireland was "not something we recognise".

Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, appeared to confirm the plan, however, telling the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show: “We have to compromise on the backstop. If we’re to get the agreement through, we absolutely have to do that. The question is how we find a way to do that.”

Asked what such a compromise might involve, he said: “It’s getting an agreement with Ireland on an alternative mechanism to ensure that we don’t get friction across the Norther Ireland-Ireland border.”

Mr Fox said both the UK and Irish government shared a desire to preserve an open border in Northern Ireland, adding: “The question is can we achieve what the Irish government wants and what we want by a different mechanism.”

The government will “explore ways” to “find an alternative mechanism to ensure that we give the Irish government what they want, which is that we end up with no hard border”, he added.

Dublin moved swiftly to pour cold water on the suggestion.

Simon Coveney, the Irish foreign minister, wrote on Twitter: “As Brexit dominates news coverage, no surprise that some analysis today gets it wrong. I can reassure you the Irish government’s commitment to the entire [withdrawal agreement] is absolute – including the backstop to ensure, no matter what, an open border between Ireland + NI and the [Good Friday Agreement] are protected.”

And an Irish government source told the Sunday Times that a bilateral treaty “doesn’t sound like something we would entertain”.

Ms May’s chief of staff, Gavin Barwell, has reportedly told cabinet ministers that, if the plan fails, the prime minister could seek to secure more support for her deal by announcing she will step down in May.

Ms May briefed her cabinet on her next steps during a conference call on Sunday afternoon.

The latest twist comes as a cross-party group of backbenchers prepares to try to amend whatever plan Ms May puts forward in order to give parliament the right to seize control of Brexit.

The proposal, led by former attorney general Dominic Grieve, would remove the government’s power to choose what parliament debates and instead prioritise any motion backed by 300 MPs from at least five parties – significantly less than a Commons majority.

A separate plan being worked on by senior parliamentarians, including Labour’s Yvette Cooper and former Tory ministers Nick Boles and Nicky Morgan, would force the government to delay Brexit if a deal is not approved within weeks.

A Downing Street spokesperson said: “The British public voted to leave the European Union and it is vital that elected politicians deliver upon that verdict.

“Any attempt to remove the government’s power to meet the legal conditions of an orderly exit at this moment of historic significance is extremely concerning.”

In a sign of growing concern among Eurosceptics that the amendments could lead to Brexit being delayed or reversed, leading Tory Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg, a vocal critic of Ms May’s deal, said it would be better to leave the EU on the terms of the prime minister’s plan than not leave at all.

Writing in the Mail on Sunday, he called on the Conservatives to “come together in the national interest”. He added: “If I had to choose between no deal and Mrs May’s original accord, I would have no hesitation of opting for no-deal Brexit, but even Mrs May’s deal would be better than not leaving at all.

“Even at this very late stage, I believe that with commitment and effort we can avoid such a choice.”
image

greybeard

23rd January 2019, 09:25

Labour to press for a vote on a second referendum.
Chris

greybeard

23rd January 2019, 14:06

Brexit news latest: Jeremy Corbyn backs plans for vote to force second EU referendum
Evening Standard Sean Morrison,Evening Standard Tue, 22 Jan 03:27 GMT

Jeremy Corbyn has endorsed a plan for MPs to vote on whether a second Brexit referendum should be held.

The Labour leader said he wants the Government to give MPs the final say in the Commons next week.

If the majority back a referendum, Parliament could force Prime Minister Theresa May to hold a fresh public vote.

Bowing to pressure from members of his party's MPs, Mr Corbyn said it is time Labour’s alternative plan took “centre stage”.

He said: “Our amendment will allow MPs to vote on options to end this Brexit deadlock and prevent the chaos of a no deal.

"It is time for Labour's alternative plan to take centre stage, while keeping all options on the table, including the option of a public vote."

His remarks came as Mrs May claimed a second referendum could “damage social cohesion”.

“There has not yet been enough recognition of the way that a second referendum could damage social cohesion by undermining faith in our democracy,” she said.

An amendment to the Mrs May’s Brexit motion calls for a vote on backing Labour's plan for a customs union with the EU, and whether to legislate "to hold a public vote on a deal or a proposition" supported by a Commons majority.

It came Work and Pensions Secretary Amber Rudd was believed to have urged Downing Street to allow Tory MPs a free vote on moves aimed at preventing a no deal, amid fears that dozens of ministers could otherwise resign.

Meanwhile, the Daily Telegraph reported that Tory HQ has been effectively put on a snap general election "war footing" due to the Brexit situation in Parliament.

In a break from usual parliamentary rules, MPs will be able to amend the so-called "neutral motion" tabled by the Prime Minister on Brexit, with votes due to take place on amendments chosen by Speaker John Bercow on January 29.
MPs are expected to table a number of amendments to Theresa May's Brexit 'next steps' motion (PA)

A cross-party group of MPs, including Labour's Yvette Cooper and Tory former minister Nick Boles, is seeking to give time for a Bill to suspend the Article 50 withdrawal process if there is no new deal with Brussels by the end of February.

Labour's Hilary Benn has tabled an amendment to the Government motion calling for a range of indicative votes on various Brexit options.

He tweeted: "Just tabled an amendment for next week's Brexit debate calling for the House of Commons to hold a series of indicative votes on a way forward."

And Tory former attorney general Dominic Grieve is looking to allow a motion by a minority of 300 MPs - from at least five parties and including 10 Tories - to be debated in order to allow for indicative votes on where to go next.

In a sign of Labour divisions on the issue of a second Brexit referendum, shadow housing minister Melanie Onn said she could not support such a move.

The Great Grimsby MP tweeted: "This may mean that I am required to step down from my front bench housing role if it is a whipped vote."

However, Chuka Umunna, a prominent supporter of a People's Vote called for a firmer stance.

He tweeted: "There is always a flurry of excitement when the frontbench acknowledges the obvious - that a People's Vote may be the only way forward (it is) - but that is not the position adopted by those running the show. Supporting "options" is not a credible or sustainable policy."

Presenting her "Plan B" to the Commons on Monday, Mrs May said she would conduct further talks on the controversial Irish border backstop proposals, and promised to give Parliament "a proper say" in negotiations on the future relationship between the UK and EU.

But the PM refused to rule out a no-deal Brexit, and insisted there was no majority in the House of Commons for a so-called People's Vote.

Mrs May announced she was scrapping a £65 fee for EU nationals wanting to remain in the UK after Brexit, promised to guarantee workers' rights and environmental safeguards.

Irish foreign minister Simon Coveney said Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier had assured him the EU remains "firmly supportive" of the Withdrawal Agreement in full, including its guarantees of no hard border in Ireland.

norman

23rd January 2019, 15:07

People are acting like this isn't a monarchy.

If the Queen wants out of the EU, we are leaving, and that's that.

She has the power to dissolve parliament and the power to ask a parliamentarian to form a government, or not to. She can completely ignore parliament if she likes, and at the end of the day, it is her own signature that is required above all others.

Instead if guessing who's got the heaviest clout in parliament, people should spend a bit of time trying to work out what Queen Elizabeth II wants. That's what we will get, and nothing else (short of an assassination).

My hunch, for what it's worth, she wants out. An island Switzerland would be a very good future for the Sax/Windsor family.

greybeard

23rd January 2019, 17:25

Brexit news latest: 'Up to 40 ministers to resign from government' if Theresa May bans Tory MPs from voting against no deal
Evening Standard James Morris,Evening Standard Tue, 22 Jan 07:34 GMT

Up to 40 government ministers have reportedly told No10 they will resign if they are banned from voting against a no deal Brexit.

It is understood the internal movement against no deal is being led by work and pensions secretary Amber Rudd, who is said to have urged Downing Street to allow Tory MPs a free vote.

And the Daily Telegraph reported at least four other Cabinet ministers delivered further “stark” warnings to Prime Minister Theresa May over no deal.

It comes after business secretary Richard Harrington strongly hinted he would resign if an “absolute disaster” of a no deal divorce happened.
Amber Rudd is said to have urged Downing Street to permit a free vote on the option to block a no deal Brexit

This morning, Iain Duncan Smith, who voted against Mrs May's deal, told Today: "As you would if you were in business or any sort of project you are doing, you always get the expert and they do the negotiations.

"What we now need is absolutely, 100%, daily political leadership under the Prime Minister, reporting back.

"And alongside that individual you have already sitting in the trade department probably the world's expert on trade arrangements and I would like to see that individual in."

Asked what this meant for Olly Robbins, Theresa May's chief Europe adviser, Mr Duncan Smith added: "I have no particular problem if Olly Robbins is still there et cetera, my point is that they would support that process.

"But what you need is a very strong focused team now, and politically led, that's my personal view."

The Times reported a government source as insisting blocking no deal would aid her negotiating prospects with EU leaders: “If done properly this could help the prime minister go to Brussels in a stronger position.”

Tory HQ has effectively been put on a snap general election "war footing" due to the Brexit impasse in Parliament, according to the Telegraph.

Meanwhile, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn gave his strongest backing yet to the possibility of a second referendum – something Mrs May remains strongly against.

He said: "Our amendment [to Mrs May’s Brexit motion] will allow MPs to vote on options to end this Brexit deadlock and prevent the chaos of a no deal.

"It is time for Labour's alternative plan to take centre stage, while keeping all options on the table, including the option of a public vote."

However, Labour's amendment was carefully worded and did not explicitly say the party would officially support a second referendum.

His remarks came as Mrs May claimed a second referendum could “damage social cohesion”.

“There has not yet been enough recognition of the way that a second referendum could damage social cohesion by undermining faith in our democracy,” she said.
Jeremy Corbyn branded Mrs May's attempts at cross-party talks as 'phoney' (EPA)

Last night Mrs May announced she was scrapping a £65 fee for EU nationals wanting to remain in the UK after Brexit, promised to guarantee workers' rights and environmental safeguards.

Irish foreign minister Simon Coveney said Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier had assured him the EU remains "firmly supportive" of the Withdrawal Agreement in full, including its guarantees of no hard border in Ireland.

greybeard

27th January 2019, 18:51

Fear mongering in the extreme says chris
"The original "News" that I was going to post disappeared.
This is an older and milder version."

Martial law plans being drawn up in the event of a no-deal Brexit

Plans are being drawn up to impose martial law across Britain in the event of a no-deal Brexit , it has emerged.

The move has been described by sources as the civil service "prepping" for all possibilities.

The revelation came as further Government splits emerged over whether Britain should quit the EU without an agreement as Defence Minister Tobias Ellwood broke ranks and insisted a no-deal scenario must be ruled out.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock confirmed the government was drawing up plans to impose martial law and curfews in a no deal Brexit.

norman

27th January 2019, 19:55

"Ef up the eu deal and just get the hell out".

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/106/590x/the-queen-donald-trump-988500.jpg?r=1532529215721
https://vgy.me/CrWDma.jpg
:bounce:

greybeard

27th January 2019, 20:14

Brexit: Guy Verhofstadt says Conservatives and Labour have put politics ahead of country
The Independent Joe Watts,The Independent Sat, 26 Jan 17:35 GMT

The European Parliament’s Brexit spokesman has said that both big British parties have put political interests ahead of the national good.

Guy Verhofstadt said that in his Belgian homeland a “majority” committee would have been formed to break the Brexit impasse.

It comes after Theresa May was criticised for not being prepared to compromise on her ‘red lines’ in recent cross-party talks, while Jeremy Corbyn came under attack for refusing to take part in the talks at all.

On Tuesday parliament will vote on whether to adopt any of the alternative approaches to Brexit that have been put forward by groups of cross-party MPs.

But it in an interview with L’Echo newspaper, Mr Verhofstadt said: “The question is whether an agreement can be settled between the two major parties, Labour and the Conservatives.

“Still, this situation is the result of British politics. Elsewhere, in Belgium for example, a joint majority opposition committee would have set itself up to make a decision in the country’s interest.

“At the moment, it seems that the interest of British parties is more important than that of their country. That said, last Monday, Theresa May partially opened the door, for the first time, during her speech to the British parliament. Jeremy Corbyn too.”

In a statement after winning her vote of confidence last week, Ms May said she would begin talks with leaders in both politics and wider society in a bid to find a Brexit compromise.

But she was criticised for going into the talks maintaining the principles with which she entered the broader Brexit negotiations, including staying out of a customs union and scrapping freedom of movement.

Mr Corbyn said he would not take part at all until Ms May ruled out the prospect of a no-deal Brexit, something she has refused to do since taking office.

Proposals likely to be put to a vote on Tuesday include one that would extend Article 50 and one to give parliament power over the commons schedule instead of the executive, while another aiming for a second referendum was dropped due to a lack of support.

There appeared to be hope for Ms May to receive backing from rebels and her DUP partners in government under an amendment tabled by Sir Graham Brady that would approve the deal she has negotiated with Brussels as long as the Irish backstop was replaced.
image

greybeard

27th January 2019, 20:53

Re surfaced.

Brexit news latest: Whitehall officials look at prospect of imposing martial law in event of 'no-deal'
Evening Standard Hatty Collier,Evening Standard Sunday 27th

Brexit planners are looking at the possibility of imposing martial law in Britain in the event of a “no-deal”, it has emerged.

Legislation which gives ministers the powers to impose curfews and travel bans, confiscate property and deploy the armed forces is being examined by Whitehall officials, the Sunday Times reports.

Powers available under the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 could be used to stop civil disobedience after Britain leaves the EU, according to the newspaper.

A source was quoted as saying: “The over-riding them in all the no-deal planning is civil disobedience and the fear that it will lead to death in the event of food and medical shortages.”

The move has been described by sources as the civil service "prepping" for all possibilities.
Under pressure on Brexit: Theresa May (PA)

The revelation came as further Government splits emerged over whether Britain should quit the EU without an agreement as Defence Minister Tobias Ellwood broke ranks and insisted a no deal scenario must be ruled out.

A Downing Street spokesperson said: "Respecting the referendum decision means leaving the EU.

"The PM has said that there will be disruption in the event of no deal, but as a responsible Government we are taking the appropriate steps to minimise this disruption and ensure the country is prepared."

In other measures the Government sought to extend working hours for MPs in order to get Brexit legislation through the Commons before the scheduled EU withdrawal date of March 29.

Responding to news the Government was looking at the possibility of a martial law scenario, Labour MP and Best for Britain campaign supporter, David Lammy said: "This is a full-blown crisis.

"The Government is recklessly drawing up plans for a colossal act of self-harm.

"Through continuing on the path to Brexit, despite having achieved no consensus on a deal in Parliament, the Government is preparing to declare war on itself.

"The idea that the Government has any mandate for this catastrophic scenario is ludicrous.
Defence minister Tobias Ellwood (AFP/Getty Images)

"The Leave campaign promised a stable new trading relationship with the EU after Brexit, not total isolation and soldiers in our airports."

Despite Prime Minister Theresa May refusing to take the prospect of a no deal off the table, Mr Ellwood wrote in the Sunday Times: "It is now time to rule out the very possibility of no deal.

"It is wrong for Government and business to invest any more time and money in a no deal outcome which will make us poorer, weaker and smaller in the eyes of the world."

Also writing in the Sunday Times, Commons Leader Andrea Leadsom branded bids by some backbench MPs to kill no deal as an option via a series of Commons amendments on Tuesday as a "thinly veiled attempt to stop Brexit".

In a bid to try and ensure Brexit legislation gets through the Commons and Lords in time for the planned March exit, Parliament's February recess is to be cancelled, and MPs will be made to start earlier and finish later on sitting days.

The move comes after the Commons Leader suggested that leaving the EU might need to be delayed by "a couple of weeks" in order to get all the legislation through.

Reports that the Number 10 chief of staff Gavin Barwell had criticised the role of the Prime Minister's husband Philip May in Brexit discussions were dismissed as "utter bunkum" by a Downing street spokesperson.
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greybeard

27th January 2019, 21:06

Second Brexit Referendum Would 'Fail The Public', Labour's Angela Rayner Says
HuffPost UK Arj Singh,HuffPost UK Jan 27th

British people do not want a second EU referendum or a delay to Brexit, senior Labour frontbencher Angela Rayner has said.

The shadow education secretary said politicians will have “failed the public” if they ask voters to give their views on EU membership again.

Her comments will concern campaigners for a so-called People’s Vote who say they need Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn’s backing to make it a reality.

Corbyn has so far been reluctant to support a second referendum but is facing pressure from some of his own MPs and party members to do so.

Rayner also revealed she would vote to stay in the EU if there was a second poll but described a narrow victory for Remain as the “the worst case scenario”, adding: “what are we going to have then, a best of three?”

Appearing on Ridge on Sunday on Sky News, she went on: “I think if we end up with a second referendum then us as politicians have failed the public. We have failed to be able to do our job.

“I would see that as a really difficult situation for us all to be in.

“I don’t think people want to see a delay to Article 50, I don’t think people want to see us in a second referendum.

“They want to see parliamentarians working together to carry out what happened in the result of the referendum to get the best possible deal we can for Britain moving forward and the only way we can do that next week is by Theresa May actually genuinely working across Parliament and looking at her red lines and seeing how she can build that consensus.

“I still think that can happen.”

Labour has yet to reveal if it will support Yvette Cooper’s Brexit amendment, which would empower MPs to extend Article 50 and delay EU withdrawal if Theresa May cannot get a deal approved in the Commons by the end of next month.
Labour's Yvette Cooper wants MPs to have the power to delay Brexit to avoid no deal

Rayner’s comments on Article 50 may concern those supporting the move, but she suggested the party was still open to backing it in a vote on Tuesday.

“Labour will do whatever it takes to avoid a no-deal Brexit, so if that’s the only option we have it’s something we will seriously consider,” the shadow education secretary said.

“We will do whatever it takes, through parliament, to stop that no-deal scenario from happening. If that means backing an amendment, then we will do that.”

Cooper meanwhile made clear it would be up to MPs to decide how long any delay to Article 50 should be, in what appeared to be an attempt to win backing from the Labour leadership which is concerned over a lengthy prolongation of the withdrawal process.

She told BBC One’s Andrew Marr Show: “It’s deliberately amenable when the motion comes forward at the end of February if the government hasn’t sorted it out by then then it would be up for parliament to decide how long’s needed.”

norman

28th January 2019, 00:29

Martial Law, bring it on.

The guy who told me 3 or so years ago that the army was training it's youngsters on mockup British council estates has again assured me that the army is fully on "our" side.

I even think the royals are too, right now, we can deal with them later.

sunwings

29th January 2019, 16:10

This article caught my attention about how the child abuse enquiry was slowed down to ensure Mrs May became PM. (please read it)

She told John Nicolson that she soon began to harbour concerns about how the inquiry was being run, and these concerns prompted her to suggest to her fellow panellists that they write to Theresa May.

She continued: "I was taken to one side and it was made clear to me, I was told that Theresa May was going to be the Prime Minister, this inquiry was going to be part of this, and that if I didn't toe the line and do I was told, if I tried to get information out, I would be discredited by her advisors."

She went on to allege that this warning was issued by the inquiry's QC, Ben Emmerson, who served as a go-between between May and the inquiry team.

https://talkradio.co.uk/news/child-abuse-inquiry-member-i-was-silenced-2015-ensure-theresa-may-could-become-prime-minister?amp&__twitter_impression=true

greybeard

29th January 2019, 18:35

Theresa May to ask EU to reopen Brexit deal as she faces crucial amendments votes in Commons
Ross McGuinness
Yahoo News UK29 January 2019

Theresa May has told her Cabinet she is ready to reopen talks with the EU about her Brexit deal.

The Prime Minister told MPs ahead of Tuesday night’s crucial votes on amendments to her Withdrawal Agreement that she is ready to reopen talks with Brussels to seek changes to the Irish backstop in the hope of winning the support of Parliament for her deal.

She insisted she would go back to the EU to get a “significant and legally binding change” to the controversial proposal. The backstop is in place to stop the return of border checks.

She is expected to have phone calls with EU leaders throughout the day.

Hard-line Brexiteers, led by Jacob Rees-Mogg, are set to meet in advance of the vote tonight to decide whether they will fall in line and back the so-called ‘Brady amendment’. This would be crucial to securing a majority support from MPs.

However, Brussels has repeatedly ruled out making changes to the deal. Belgian MEP Guy Verhofstadt has explicitly said the European Parliament will not consent to any “watered down” withdrawal agreement.
View photos
MPs will vote on an amendment put forward by Labour’s Yvette Cooper (Picture: PA)

The Brexit deal in its current state was voted down by MPs by a huge margin earlier this month.

Mrs May told the Commons on Tuesday: “This House has left no one in any doubt about what it does not want. Today we need to send an emphatic message about what we do want.”

Commons speaker John Bercow has selected seven amendments for consideration as MPs aim to shape the next phase of the Brexit talks with the EU.

These include an amendment by senior Tory Sir Graham Brady’s proposal to replace the controversial Northern Ireland backstop with “alternative arrangements to avoid a hard border”.

ripple

29th January 2019, 20:55

Queen Tess smashes back with stunning victory . Now it's time to boot Brussels hard and repeatedly . But she's a Globalist deep down , so she will not .

MPs have backed seeking "alternative arrangements" to replace the Irish backstop in Theresa May's Brexit plan.

The proposal - put forward by Tory MP Sir Graham Brady - had the support of the government and won by 16 votes.

Theresa May had urged MPs to vote in favour of it to give her a mandate to return to Brussels and re-open negotiations in order to secure a "legally binding change".

But the EU has said it will not change the legal text agreed with the UK PM.

The backstop is is the insurance policy in Mrs May's plan to prevent checks on goods and people returning to the Northern Ireland border, which some MPs fear could leave the UK tied to the EU's rules indefinitely.
It was a key part in seeing her original Brexit deal voted down in Parliament by an historic margin earlier in January.

greybeard

29th January 2019, 21:02

Brexit latest: Theresa May wins MPs' backing to renegotiate Brexit deal
[Yahoo News UK]
Yahoo News Staff
Yahoo News UK29 January 2019

MPs have voted to support Theresa May’s plan to renegotiate the Brexit deal with the EU in which she will try to replace the controversial Irish backstop with an alternative.

On a remarkable night in the House of Commons that potentially changed the course of Brexit, MPs also rejected a vote that would have forced Mrs May to delay Brexit to avoid crashing out with no deal.

However, MPs also supported another vote in which they rejected the no-deal option. The main difference between the two votes is that the latter would not be legally binding.

Mrs May will now go back to Brussels with a mandate to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement and come up with ‘alternative arrangements’.

The backstop is in place to stop the return of border checks.

Speaking after the vote results during the pivotal evening, Mrs May told MPs: “It’s now clear that there is a route that can secure a substantial and sustainable majority in this house for leaving the EU with a deal”, but she admitted renegotiation “will not be easy”.

However, the EU has shown no signs of wanting to reopen the current deal.

Moments before MPs started voting on a series of amendments on Tuesday evening, French President Emmanuel Macron described the Withdrawal Agreement as “not renegotiable”.

Speaking in Cyprus moments, he said: “As the European Council in December clearly indicated, the Withdrawal Agreement negotiated between the UK and EU is the best agreement possible. It is not renegotiable.”

Belgian MEP Guy Verhofstadt also said on Tuesday that the European Parliament will not consent to any “watered down” withdrawal agreement.

Icare

30th January 2019, 03:51

Thanks for all your info, Greybeard, now I no longer have to listen to the news about how things are going.

To me, it has been quite interesting how different the reports about the whole subject have been in the British media compared to the German mainstream media.

Ever since the vote the German main stream media have portrayed things as if there might easily be a second referendum , emphasizing how many Brits were feeling deceived and were pushing for it, and I used to think that wasn't possible because a referendum can't just be declared null and void because that's not how democracy works.

We Germans (although I do have dual citizenship) just have to accept the fact that the British want to leave us alone in this mess that is the EU right now (what with Germany being the highest paying contributor and Britain the second highest). I can't see the EU staying afloat financially after Britain has left, there is just no way Germany can do it alone if, for example, Italy needs help as we can just barely keep ourselves afloat as it is right now.

When Teresa May tried to get that deal to pass through the House of Commons, the German main stream media said chances were it probably wouldn't get passed. And how could it. No surprise there.

Now it looks like it's going to be a hard Brexit (no deal) and our local paper reported a rising number of Brits working in Germany were applying for German citizenship and the news on TV said Britain might not want a hard Brexit after all and there might be a second referendum.

I can't help thinking the whole thing is orchestrated somehow in order to keep us from solving the real problems the world faces.

greybeard

30th January 2019, 10:09

Icare
thanks for your input its really appreciated.
Now Parliament has voted for an impossible undertaking.
Teresa May will once again get a No
What then?

Chris

greybeard

30th January 2019, 10:13

'She's behind you': furious row breaks out in Commons as Jeremy Corbyn fails to let Labour MP Angela Smith speak on second referendum
Evening Standard Ella Wills,Evening Standard

A furious row erupted in the House of Commons today after Jeremy Corbyn refused to give way to an intervention by veteran Labour MP Angela Smith.

The Labour leader's speech during Tuesday's Brexit debate was hampered by a dispute over his failure to take a series of interventions from MPs including from his colleague Ms Smith, who is campaigning for a second referendum.

Mr Corbyn's refusal to take the intervention from the Labour backbencher led to jeers of "she's behind you" by Tory MPs.

Eventually Mr Corbyn relented and allowed the Environment Secretary Michael Gove to interrupt him, who queried why Mr Corbyn was "scared" to allow Ms Smith to intervene when she has been a "member of the Labour party for 37 years".
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn's Commons speech was dogged by points of order (PA)

Mr Corbyn ignored the question, instead mockingly thanking the Cabinet minister for his "brief statement of his leadership intentions".

The debate ahead of a crucial series of votes on the withdrawal agreement tonight was then branded a "farce" as Chief Whip Julian Smith was pictured holding up a piece of paper towards Mr Corbyn.
Chief Whip Julian Smith was pictured holding a piece of paper up to Mr Corbyn (Stella Creasy)

The sign is believed to have read: "Angela wants to ask about a second referendum."

The row erupted as Mr Corbyn confirmed Labour support for a plan tabled by senior backbencher Yvette Cooper which would result in the extension of Article 50 to keep the UK in the EU beyond the expected March 29 Brexit date.
Environment Secretary Michael Gove questioned why Ms Smith's request had been denied (Parliament TV)

But his comments soon became bogged down by several points of order and frustration from MPs as Ms Smith was denied an intervention by Mr Corbyn.

In a point of order, Ms Smith said: "I wonder with all the noise in the chamber, whether or not being directly behind the Leader of the Opposition, my request for intervention may not have been heard."
Angela Smith was refused an intervention by Mr Corbyn (Parliament TV)

And as Mr Corbyn repeatedly refused to give way, Tory MPs began to heckle: "She's behind you."

Commons Speaker John Bercow was forced to intervene several times, accusing the Conservative benches of an "orchestrated attempt" to try and "shout down the Leader of the Opposition".

It prompted veteran MP Frank Field to suggest that the debate was "damaging to our standing with the nation", and that it should be shut down and MPs moved straight on to the voting, an idea Mr Bercow rejected.

Mr Field observed that people watching the debate may not realise that the noise levels are related to the refusal of the person speaking to taking interventions.

Labour MP Stella Creasy was among those to slam the Commons proceedings on Tuesday as a "farce".

In a series of tweets she wrote: "This is a farce. Been going now for two hours and there’s nothing here to find any way forward - we are now onto the point of order chorus section of parliamentary Groundhog Day. We have to find a better way to do this not just on Brexit but generally!"

She added, alongside a picture of Mr Smith: "And now the actual chief whip is holding up a sign - none of us can read it - but what’s next? Bunny ears?! That’s why suggesting this needs a citizen’s assembly …not a school one…"

Ms Smith launched a petition at the end of last year urging Mr Corbyn to back a so-called People's Vote on Brexit.

greybeard

30th January 2019, 19:04

May plea for Brexit renegotiation hits wall of resistance from EU
PA Ready News UK By Andrew Woodcock and David Hughes, Press Association Political Staff,PA Ready News UK

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker warned MEPs that the Commons votes have increased the likelihood of a no-deal outcome.

Theresa May’s plan to renegotiate Britain’s Brexit Withdrawal Agreement has met a wall of resistance from the EU, with the continent’s most senior politicians and officials lining up to insist the deal cannot be unpicked.

In a dramatic night at Westminster on Tuesday, the Prime Minister succeeded in uniting her party behind a plan to rewrite the deal to address concerns about the Irish backstop.

But senior figures in Brussels, Berlin, Paris and Dublin warned that the demand only made a no-deal Brexit more likely as the clock ticks down to the UK’s scheduled departure from the European Union on March 29.

European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker described the Agreement reached after 18 months of negotiation last November as “the best and only deal possible”.

And he told MEPs in the European Parliament in Brussels: “The debate and votes in the House of Commons yesterday do not change that.

“The Withdrawal Agreement will not be renegotiated.”
Jean-Claude Juncker addressed the European Parliament in Brussels (European Parliament/PA)

Mr Juncker said he would stay in close contact with Mrs May and would “listen to her ideas”.

But he added: “I will also be extremely clear about the position of the EU. Yesterday’s vote has further increased the risk of a disorderly exit of the UK.”

Tuesday’s Commons vote demanded the replacement of the backstop with “alternative arrangements” to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland.

But the EU’s chief negotiator Michel Barnier told MEPs that “no-one, on one side or the other, can say very clearly and precisely what form these alternative arrangements will take”.

Insisting that the plan remains “at the heart” of the EU’s efforts to protect the single market”, Mr Barnier said: “The backstop is part and parcel of the Withdrawal Agreement and this agreement will not be renegotiated.”

The Prime Minister’s official spokesman said: “The EU had said it was seeking clarity – there had been suggestions that the backstop was not the main issue of concern, which had originated in Brussels.

“I think yesterday a clear message was given by the House of Commons that the backstop is the concern which MPs have, and that if we can find a way to address those concerns that there is a stable majority for getting support for the deal in Parliament.”

Mrs May met privately with Jeremy Corbyn to discuss the way ahead, after clashing with the Labour leader at Prime Minister’s Questions in the Commons.

Having boycotted earlier cross-party talks, Mr Corbyn said he was ready to discuss a “sensible” approach to Brexit after MPs voted on Tuesday night to rule out no deal.
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Following the meeting, Mr Corbyn said he is “suspicious” that Mrs May is trying to “run down the clock” on Brexit.

He said the pair held “serious” talks which were “exploratory on the issues” and he “set out the Labour case for a comprehensive customs union with the European Union in order to protect jobs in this country”.

But he warned: “The whole process looks like it’s running down the clock by saying well it’s either the problems and the difficulties of no deal or support a deal that’s already been rejected by the House of Commons.

“I’m suspicious that there is a programme of running down the clock here.”

Mrs May was later due to speak by phone with European Council president Donald Tusk and Irish Taoiseach Leo Varadkar.

In the Commons, Mr Corbyn demanded to know which of her red lines Mrs May was prepared to compromise on in order to avoid a no-deal Brexit.

“It really is time that the Prime Minister acknowledged she has got to move on from the red lines she put down in the first place,” he said.

But the PM told Mr Corbyn he had opposed “every move by this Government to get a deal” and “he is the one risking no deal”.

In dramatic scenes on Tuesday night, MPs voted by a margin of 317 to 301 to back a plan – the “Brady amendment” – which requires the PM to replace the Agreement’s controversial backstop with “alternative arrangements” to keep the Irish border open after Brexit.

But asked five times on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme what this “alternative” involved, Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay was unable to provide any specific explanation.

Mr Barclay said the UK was “exploring in terms of the use of technology… looking at things like the time limit” to deal with the backstop.

He added: “There are a number of options, there are issues in terms of having time limits, issues in terms of exit clauses, issues in terms of technology, and this will be the nature of the negotiation with the European Union in the coming days.”

Downing Street has suggested that the UK’s position could involve a time-limit or exit clause to the backstop or swapping it for a free trade agreement, as proposed in the so-called Malthouse Compromise drawn up by MPs from the Tories’ Remain and Leave wings.

But the suggestion that the deal struck between the Government and Brussels could be unpicked was rejected by senior figures across the EU. Mr Varadkar told the Irish parliament that the EU is not offering a renegotiation of the existing Brexit deal.

“A renegotiation is not on the table,” said the Taoiseach. “There’s no plans to organise an emergency summit to discuss any changes to the guidelines. Nor is there any pressure to hold one.”

French President Emmanuel Macron said the Withdrawal Agreement was “not renegotiable”, while a spokesman for German Chancellor Angela Merkel said that reopening the deal was “not on the agenda”.

Germany’s foreign minister, Heiko Maas, said: “Germany and the entire Union are firmly on Ireland’s side. We will not allow Ireland to be isolated on this issue.”

French Europe minister Nathalie Loiseau said: “The Withdrawal Agreement that is on the table is the best possible agreement. Let us not reopen it.”

Brexiteer ringleader Jacob Rees-Mogg made clear on Wednesday that he remains prepared to see the UK leave without a deal on March 29 if the EU refuses to reopen negotiations.

“If (the EU) think the Withdrawal Agreement is non-negotiable then we will have to leave without an agreement,” he told TalkRadio. “Do they want the £39 billion, do they want an agreement… or us just to leave? It’s up to them.”

Conservative former Cabinet minister Sir Oliver Letwin said he did not think it was “at all likely” that Mrs May would succeed in getting changes to her Withdrawal Agreement.

He told BBC Radio 5 Live: “If you were a betting person, would you bet two weeks from now that she is going to come back with something that will obtain a majority? I’d have to say, I wouldn’t bet on it, no.”

greybeard

30th January 2019, 19:24

Irish foreign minister: 'There are no alternative arrangements that avoid a hard border'
Edmund Heaphy,Yahoo Finance UK

Nobody has presented any “alternative arrangements” that could avoid a hard border in Northern Ireland, Irish foreign minister Simon Coveney said on Wednesday, as he warned that efforts to secure a Brexit deal were “running out of road.”

“The concept of alternative arrangements is not a new one,” he said. “However, there are currently no alternative arrangements which anybody has put forward, which achieve what both sides are determined to achieve – to avoid a hard border.”

Coveney said Tuesday’s vote in the House of Commons, which saw MPs narrowly vote to back an amendment that calls for the Northern Ireland backstop to be replaced by unspecified alternative arrangements, signalled “a turning point” in Theresa May’s attitude to the backstop.

That is why the Irish government is so disappointed with the vote, Coveney said.

He said that, while the EU was committed to exploring alternative arrangements for the backstop in the future, the prospect of such arrangements had already been “explored endlessly” during negotiations with the UK.

“We have less than two months to go now until Brexit happens on 29 March. We are, quite simply, running out of road.”

Any alternative to the backstop, he said, needs “to be based on legal certainty and not just wishful thinking.”

“We in Ireland are essentially being asked — as is the EU — to replace legal certainty, with a hope of something that is yet to be proven.

“In fact, it’s worse than that, because the hopes have already been tested in negotiations and they’ve come up short.”

In some of his most strongly worded remarks to date, Coveney said that anyone who allows a hard border to arise “will be judged harshly in history, and rightly so.”

“This government in Dublin is not going to allow it,” he said, noting that any Brexit-related economic concerns were trumped by concerns about maintaining peace on the island of Ireland.

“There are some things that are more important than economic relationships,” he said.

Coveney said, however, that he welcomed the fact that MPs had voted in favour of an amendment that commits the government to avoiding a no-deal Brexit.

He called it “highly unfortunate” that only one party from Northern Ireland — the Democratic Unionist Party — takes its seats at Westminster. They represent “a minority view on Brexit and the backstop,” he said.

Noting that the majority of businesses and political groups in Northern Ireland think the backstop is “infinitely preferable to a no-deal Brexit,” he said it was critical that their voices were listened to.

Coveney was speaking at a keynote speech to the Institute of International and European Affairs in Dublin on Ireland’s future in a post-Brexit European Union.

greybeard

30th January 2019, 21:45

One way of looking at it is that there are border all over the world.

If we leave European Union there will be borders between UK and France and all European countries.
If Scotland gets home rule and joins the EU then there will be a border between England and Scotland.
So as I said way back in this thread--if the British people are serious about leaving EU then the easiest way would be to say ok there will be a hard border between Northern Ireland and The South.
People cross borders every day to go to work and return in the evening.

Bottom line is if no negotiation possible with EU then we remain as part of the EU no change.
Parliament is clear UK will not leave without a deal.

Just an uninformed opinion --smiling

Chris

greybeard

31st January 2019, 20:53

EU Ready to Push U.K. Near Point of No-Return on Brexit, Diplomats Say
Bloomberg Ian Wishart,Bloomberg

EU Ready to Push U.K. Near Point of No-Return on Brexit, Diplomats Say

(Bloomberg) -- The European Union is prepared to take Brexit down to a last-minute, high-stakes summit rather than cave into U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May’s demands over the next few weeks, diplomats said.

Although May is getting ready to head back to Brussels in an attempt to reopen the Brexit deal that she negotiated over the past 18 months, the EU isn’t planning any concessions before she faces another vote in the British Parliament on Feb. 14, according to the diplomats. Behind closed doors, European officials are sticking to their well-coordinated public line that they won’t rework the deal.

The EU is in no rush to convene an emergency meeting of EU leaders, which would be necessary for any changes to the deal or for a Brexit-day delay. Diplomats point to a scheduled summit on March 21-22 -- just seven days before the U.K. is due to leave the bloc -- as the moment when the two sides could be forced to act. Some senior figures in the EU believe the U.K. needs to be all but out of options before accepting the deal, diplomats said.

Read more: European Firms Dust Off No-Deal Brexit Plans as U.K. Risks Grow

“This is not a game,” European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said in a speech in Brussels on Wednesday, as he reiterated the importance of the so-called backstop arrangement to prevent a hard Irish border, which is the most contentious part of the deal. He added that Tuesday’s House of Commons voting increased the risk of a disorderly exit and the EU won’t reopen the deal.

Irish Backstop

As the threat of economic turmoil looms over the country, May, who said Tuesday she has a mandate to renegotiate the deal, isn’t expected in Brussels this week. She held telephone calls with EU President Donald Tusk and Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar late Wednesday.

“Yesterday, we found out what the U.K. doesn’t want, but we still don’t know what the U.K does want,” Tusk tweeted after the 45-minute call, which an official with knowledge of it described as “open and frank.” Varadkar told May that the need for the backstop had been reinforced.

European governments now think that a Brexit postponement is increasingly likely, officials briefed on a meeting of EU ambassadors in Brussels on Wednesday said. However, they remain divided over how long a postponement should be.

British Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt said on Thursday negotiations with the EU could run close to the March 29 deadline and the U.K. might need a short delay to pass necessary legislation.

“It’s difficult to know” how long the process will take, Hunt told BBC Radio, adding that finalizing proposals to put to the EU on the Irish border issue is “not going to happen in the next few days.”

‘Borders and Division’

While the EU won’t budge on the part of the Brexit deal covering the backstop, it is open to reworking some of the language related to future U.K.-EU relations in a bid to convince British members of Parliament that the backstop might never be needed, diplomats said.

As the EU dug in, Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney said it’s “crystal clear” that the government won’t allow economic self-interest to trump concerns around the Northern Ireland peace process.

“It is vitally important that politicians in Westminster understand the overwhelming wish across society in Northern Ireland not to return to the borders and division of times past,” Coveney said in a speech, in a signal that the government in Dublin isn’t going to soften its stance.

The European Commission stepped up its no-deal contingency planning. Plans include a request for the U.K. to continue paying into the bloc’s budget in 2019 -- even if the U.K. doesn’t agree to the deal -- so that projects in Britain retain EU funding.

greybeard

5th February 2019, 10:44

Brexit is a revolt against a German-run European super-state
CNBC Dr. Michael Ivanovitch,CNBC Mon, 4 Feb 06:28 GMT

Britain's idea of a united Europe has never been more than a free-trading area.

In spite of that, the Germans and the Dutch liked the prospect of sharing the European Union membership with British free-traders, apparently as a counterweight to overbearing French state interventionists.

Having twice vetoed in the 1960s the British entry into what was then called the European Common Market, France eventually relented and agreed to Britain's accession in 1973.

Soon, however, France and other EU members had to deal with British "opt-outs" from legislative and regulatory provisions London was finding contrary to its government traditions and requiring sovereignty transfers to unelected officials running the European Commission in Brussels.

Nearly three years after the successful referendum to leave the EU, Britain is now in the final stages of negotiating its exit.
Germany planted the seeds of destruction

Although the form of the British exit from the EU is often presented as a reductionist binary choice — "a no-deal exit" or "a deal the U.K. and the EU can live with" — London has in effect restated the fundamental question of what is a European project: A Europe of sovereign nation states, or a federal European super-state.

The disastrous fiscal austerity policies imposed by German Chancellor Angela Merkel on sinking euro area economies at the beginning of this decade, and her subsequent disorderly open-door immigration waves in 2015 have been a catalyst and a detonator of strong centrifugal forces throughout the European Union.

In response to cataclysmic shocks of the Great Recession, Merkel set out to teach a lesson to euro area "fiscal miscreants" and those unable to control their banks (Spain). In the process, she rebuffed American President Barack Obama's request to ease up on her devastating fiscal austerity, because Washington was rightly concerned that a deep and intractable European recession would hit hard one-fifth of American exports.

To those calling for some European solidarity, Merkel retorted that it's everybody for themselves, with Germany continuing to live off its trade surpluses with the euro area partners while pursuing a "black zero" budget balance.

Presidential candidate and later President Donald Trump understood all that. He told Merkel that trade free-riding on the U.S. was over, and so was Washington's total underwriting of German security. Apparently shocked by the lack of American solidarity (stupidity), Merkel's response was that "Europeans truly have to take our fate into our own hands." In other words, never mind, Germany will continue to bilk Europe.

That, however, was too late for Merkel and Germany. Her policies have led to the extreme-right xenophobic Alternative for Germany (AfD) shooting up from zero votes in 2013 to the country's third-largest political party now.

And that was also an eye opener for some smarter Europeans. When the Hungarians saw that Merkel was going to direct refugees their way, Budapest said it didn't want Berlin to decide who was going to live in Hungary.

Berlin and a Berlin-run European Commission were outraged at that lack of Hungary's European solidarity. Worse, an arrogant German EU budget commissioner publicly threatened that he would cut off regional development funds to which Hungary was entitled.
France's 'civil war'

Germany got its next comeuppance in Italy. Rome finally summoned the courage to say "basta!" (enough!), after being left alone for years to handle thousands of African and Middle-Eastern migrants and refugees landing on its shores. Berlin's only response to Italian appeals for European solidarity was to criticize Rome for refusing to honor the maritime traffic laws and to secure people in danger.

To get back at Italy for refusing to follow Germany's diktat on immigration policies, Berlin led the assault, with its French sidekicks, on Italy's attempts to rescue its sinking economy with fiscal policies that were well within the euro-area budget rules.

Germany and its EU Commission now got exactly what they wanted: The Italian economy sank into recession late last year, and will probably remain there for most of 2019.

The story is not over, though. Italy is now teaming up with Hungary and Poland to create an anti-German and anti-French block, with unpredictable consequences for the EU's future.

All that is happening at a time when France is split by a violent and deepening social unrest — some conservative French thinkers call a "civil war," in a country prone to "violence" and "revolutions." The government has no answer to three months of demonstrations and rioting of a social movement dubbed "yellow vests." Watching an increasingly violent police warfare, the French governing elites are organizing town hall discussions, apparently believing that they can wear down, and wait out, their opponents.

But, as things now stand, there seems no end to the French political crisis. Last Saturday, for example, about 60,000 people demonstrated and rioted in all major French cities, confronted by 80,000 police in lethal combat gear.

For the time being, the French government is hanging on thanks to massive police operations and the fact that the rioting social groups have neither the leadership nor the programs that would offer viable alternatives for the transition of power in the quasi-imperial presidential system of the Fifth Republic.

By comparison, a weak and disoriented German government looks like a paragon of stability. The governing coalition forces can't wait to see Merkel's back, the right-of-center CDU/CSU sister parties are still settling their differences, and their hapless Socialist (SPD) partners are looking for a major leadership change.

And everybody is waiting to see what political forces will emerge from the European parliamentary elections in late May. The event is billed as a decisive showdown between established and highly contested governing circles, and what are derisively called "populist" demagogues and illiberal democracies.
Investment thoughts

That huge European mess is exactly what Trump and the U.K. need to settle their trade scores with a disintegrating European Union.

Will the euro survive all that?

The probability is very high that it will. The euro is in the hands of the European Central Bank, and no member country now has an overwhelming anti-euro constituency.

Upon reflection, the Europeans will also realize that a demise of the euro would herald Germany's total political, economic and financial domination of a system of fragmented European states. The long pre-euro experience shows that no country could be protected from that by managed or free-floating exchange rates. The German central bank would then be on par with the U.S. Federal Reserve, and the Bundesbank's president would reclaim its old role as a lecturer-in-chief on world economy and finance.

But many in Europe would find such a German domination unacceptable. Europe's old demons would soon take over, and Washington would have to step in to keep the erstwhile European "brothers" off each other's throats.

And here is how Henry Kissinger talks in his memoirs about a most humiliating history lesson he received on that topic from the towering French President Charles de Gaulle. Egged on by President Richard Nixon, during his visit to France in the 1960s, to challenge de Gaulle's ideas about Germany, Kissinger piqued the haughty general with the question how he would prevent Germany from dominating Europe. De Gaulle's answer was simple: "Through war."

Commentary by Michael Ivanovitch, an independent analyst focusing on world economy, geopolitics and investment strategy. He served as a senior economist at the OECD in Paris, international economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, and taught economics at Columbia Business School.

greybeard

6th February 2019, 18:13

Listening to the media.
It seems to me that trere is a slight change in demeanour towards the PM--ever so subtle but!!!
It would not now surprise me if some how Teresa May got a version of her plan through.
The seeming underdog becomes the hero--I mean the heroine.
The end result was probably planned well in advance.

Chris

greybeard

9th February 2019, 13:28

EU urges May to seize Labour opening as way out of Brexit impasse
Reuters By Alastair Macdonald and Gabriela Baczynska,Reuters

By Alastair Macdonald and Gabriela Baczynska

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - It's a proposal that is not even on the table, and reverses Theresa May's determined position - but EU officials are still urging her to grasp an offer from the Labour opposition to break an impasse over the terms of Britain's EU exit.

The Conservative prime minister gave no sign during her visit to Brussels on Thursday of softening her rejection of a permanent EU-UK customs union, as Labour proposes, European Union sources said.

But for many in Brussels, the possibility of Labour support for an orderly Brexit that avoids the likely chaos of "no-deal" is the only way out of the deadlock, and justifies an attempt to influence Britain's highly tribal internal politics.

"We are still very much in the party politics perspective. The only hope is that, at some point, the threat of 'no-deal' disruptions would mobilise minds in the UK," an EU diplomat briefed on May's talks in Brussels said on Friday.

"For now, May is still looking at her own party rather than a nationwide consensus."

The EU says London agreeing to closer ties with the bloc after Brexit would largely obviate the need for a contentious "backstop" provision in the future, an insurance policy meant to keep the border between Ireland and the British-run province of Northern Ireland open under any and all circumstances.

"We are looking at those proposals with interest but there are obviously very considerable points of difference that exist between us," said a senior official in May’s office.

"The PM continues to believe that an independent trade policy is one of the key advantages of Brexit," the person said under condition of anonymity.

Staying in a customs union with the EU would limit the UK's ability to seal trade deals with other countries on its own.

But the bloc believes that solution might be acceptable to the Northern Irish unionists propping up May's government, as well as to at least some Labour lawmakers, and thus secure a parliamentary majority for the divorce deal before Britain leaves on March 29.

Given the EU's opposition to the concessions on the backstop that May is currently demanding, the only alternative appears to Brussels to be a delay to the exit and/or a "no-deal" Brexit, with no transition period to soften the economic rupture.

"THE ONLY WAY OUT"

"By that time, hopefully, May will have worked with Labour and get Labour votes. It's the only way out. There will be no illusions on what will happen in the last week of March if they don't vote for it," another EU diplomat said.

One senior EU diplomat added: "Our leaders cannot understand why she still has not been able to do what they do every day – talk to the opposition, build coalitions."

The EU's chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, said he would reiterate on Monday at a planned meeting with Britain's Brexit minister that the EU would not re-open the legally binding Brexit deal agreed with Britain over two years, but was ready to rework the political declaration that accompanies it.

The bloc rejects London's demands for a time limit to the backstop, saying that would defeat its purpose. But it has given May an olive branch, agreeing that Brexit negotiators from both sides will sit down to talks again.

EU diplomats and officials dealing with Brexit expect it to go right down to the wire. While May has refused to rule out a 'no-deal' Brexit, which she believes gives her bargaining power, Brussels hopes that she would come round to requesting at least a short delay if that scenario seemed unavoidable.

They juxtapose May's brinkmanship with a somewhat unexpected role model - Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras.

Long at loggerheads with the EU over Greece's economy and migration, the bloc's former enfant terrible has now won widespread praise in the EU for putting to rest a protracted name dispute with neighbouring Macedonia at considerable political cost.

"Look at Tsipras and Macedonia – a leader who stuck his neck out and risked his own government and premiership to do what he knew was right. We need that type of thinking in the UK," said another EU diplomat.

(Additional reporting by Jan Strupczewski in Brussels and Elizabeth Piper in London; Writing by Gabriela Baczynska; Editing by Kevin Liffey and Frances Kerry)

norman

21st February 2019, 13:30

This is a public information broadcast from the oldskool.

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Published on 16 Jan 2015

greybeard

12th March 2019, 20:20

Brexit vote: Theresa May dealt humiliating Brexit defeat as Britain teeters on the brink

Theresa May has lost the second ‘meaningful vote’ on her Brexit deal after failing to win over MPs with a series of last-minute changes agreed with the EU.

MPs voted against the deal by 391 votes to 242 – a majority of 149 votes – in yet another humiliation for the Prime Minister over Brexit.

On Monday night Mrs May and European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker announced a series of ‘legally binding changes’ to the Irish backstop, the mechanism to avoid a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland if the UK and EU fail to agree a satisfactory trade deal after Brexit.

But the last-minute changes failed to convince hard Brexiteers or the DUP after Attorney General Sir Geoffrey Cox ruled there was still a risk the UK could be trapped in the backstop indefinitely.

In a result that was unsurprising to many following the Attorney General’s ruling, Mrs May suffered her latest defeat in the Commons as her deal was rejected for the second time.
What happens next?

MPs are now due to vote on Wednesday on whether they are willing for the UK to leave the EU without a deal on March 29.

Mrs May announced that the motion MPs vote on will state: “this House declines to approve leaving the European Union without a Withdrawal Agreement and a framework on the future relationship on March 29 2019 and notes that leaving without a deal remains the default in UK and EU law unless this House and the EU ratify an agreement”.

The Prime Minister also said she will give Conservative MPs a free vote on the motion, saying she had “personally struggled with this choice” but the best way to leave was “in an orderly way” with a deal.

If MPs reject the option of a no-deal Brexit, a third vote will follow on Thursday authorising Mrs May to request an extension of the two-year Article 50 negotiation process.

An extension requires the unanimous agreement of all 27 remaining member states, and Mr Juncker has warned that it cannot stretch beyond May 23 unless the UK takes part in the European Parliament elections starting on that date.
MPs will now vote on Wednesday on whether they are willing for the UK to leave Europe without a deal (Picture: House of Commons Press Office)

What now for Mrs May?

Addressing the Commons with a croaky voice following the vote, Mrs May said she “profoundly regrets the decision this House has taken tonight”.

She told MPs: “I continue to believe that by far the best outcome is the UK leaves the European Union in orderly fashion with a deal.

“And that the deal we have negotiated is the best and indeed only deal available.”

While some had suspected that yet another defeat would leave question marks over her future as PM, there was no suggestion by Mrs May that she will offer her resignation.
Jeremy Corbyn has called for a general election (Picture: House of Commons Press Office)