Reincarnation Question

[Ilie Pandia]

Hello,

I see in a lot of the replies on this forum posts about reincarnation stated with a tone of obvious facts:

"You chose to be here now!"

"You came here to do this and that!"

"You chose your family and environment"

"This is a bad place to incarnate on right now"

"You came here to help"

And I have only one question... How do you know?

For me reincarnation makes a lot of sense from a logical point of view. And I know there is evidence to support this theory. But for me this is all it is at this moment: a theory that makes sense and that I really like to believe in (because it relives the fear of death/destruction).

So, for you folks that say you chose to come here, how do you know that? How do you know you have not been sent here as punishment? Or as a promotion? Or as a chance to learn something new? Or to redeem yourselves? How can you be so sure when you are talking about reincarnation?

I would imagine that some of you have a conscious memory or a feeling of having made a choice to come here? Or perhaps a higher point of view than myself.

Please note that I am not attacking anybody, I am just curious and trying to make sense of what I may have come here to do :)

[kesom]

fair points pixel...........:)

itll be good to see what peeps think :)

[Wood]

Through spiritual work, meditation, self cleaning, etc, people are exposed to certain experiences. The path is different for each individual AFAIK, but we all have work to do to advance. It is not free.
Maybe it is just another layer of the deception, sure. I've realised, though, that the best I can do in the midst of all this confusion is to look within to discover who I am, what is my essence and to remove all the crud. Then magic happens :).

[atut]

What if your mother did not marry to your father? Because your father found another more beautiful girl. Or because your mother found another rich guy.
If so, then you were not born, you are not who you are today, you are not browsing the Internet now, you are not login to Avalon, you are not looking at this message. YOU ARE NOT EXIST!

Then, where are you now?

[Wood]

What if your mother did not marry to your father? Because your father found another more beautiful girl. Or because your mother found another rich guy.
If so, then you were not born, you are not who you are today, you are not browsing the Internet now, you are not login to Avalon, you are not looking at this message. YOU ARE NOT EXIST!

Then, where are you now?

I believe we are not bodies but souls that have a material vehicle that lasts for some time, the body. I am in the same place as we all are: in God's mind. In case I were not using this body I'd be in another one or just not incarnated for a while.

[Ilie Pandia]

I believe we are not bodies but souls that have a material vehicle that lasts for some time, the body. I am in the same place as we all are: in God's mind. In case I were not using this body I'll be in another one or just not incarnated for a while.

What a nice answer Wood... that was pretty much what I was thinking... but again you are so sure of yourself. Do you really know inside of you that what you are saying is true? If so I envy you :).

[Wood]

What a nice answer Wood... that was pretty much what I was thinking... but again you are so sure of yourself. Do you really know inside of you that what you are saying is true? If so I envy you :).

I know it. The intuitive mind expands with practise. Keep in mind there are other PA members far more spiritually advanced than I, I am just learning and sometimes I am very wrong. What I have done so far, anyone can do :)

[atut]

or just not incarnated for a while.

IMHO...
"A while" in this incarnation is different with "a while" when we are in light. Light is different space and different dimension to 3D world.
Much possible that we don't have "time" when we are in light form, so we can't differentiate which is "while", which is "long".

Question: If we have family and best friend that were already dead. Can we meet them after we die?

[13th Warrior]

Why have I been created?

Is my purpose here to evolve into a higher spiritual being?

The more I learn the more i want to learn; eventually reaching the point where i realize that i have more to learn than I could possible achieve in a single lifetime...even if I where to live 1000 years in one lifetime.

Then the answer to your question becomes clear; you need many lifetimes to learn all the lessons this world has to teach and for you to "get it right".

"And that's all I have to say about that"

[Dale]

An interesting thread, this is.

Reincarnation, as it is referred to as, has been scientifically verified to quite a reasonable degree. Had it been a flu vaccine, it would have been on the market decades ago.

With regards to our purposes of being here, I suppose many of us go about our lives either unaware of what that purpose may be, or assuming a different purpose. Some of us are skilled enough to tap into a higher "source," revealing what drives us forward.

On a larger picture, regardless of our directions, we've done exactly what was meant of us. As spiritual beings. We've packed our cars, took one final glance at our roadmaps, and headed westward.

[Wood]

Why have I been created?

Is my purpose here to evolve into a higher spiritual being?

The more I learn the more i want to learn; eventually reaching the point where i realize that i have more to learn than I could possible achieve in a single lifetime...even if I where to live 1000 years in one lifetime.

Then the answer to your question becomes clear; you need many lifetimes to learn all the lessons this world has to teach and for you to "get it right".

"And that's all I have to say about that"

Well, I'd rather say that it is not casual that our bodies have such a short lifespan and that we are born without remembering past lives. That is what is behind all the talk about reptilians or other ETs tweaking our DNA to put us into a trap we can't easily escape. I think the key part is that we have a weak spiritual connection and all the wrong ideas we are being fed since childhood make it very difficult for us to develop the spiritual link. They rule us through chaos, confusion and deception.

The idea behind lessons to learn implies we are imperfect, impure beings. I'd rather say the imperfection has been imposed on us and that the game has been designed to keep us here, always in debt. I like the analogy of a banker that tricks people into borrowing money to buy unnecessary stuff, and then charges abusive interests so that the debt can't be repayed.

[DawgBone]

eincarnation, as it is referred to as, has been scientifically verified to quite a reasonable degree. Had it been a flu vaccine, it would have been on the market decades ago.


LOL! That's the ticket. If the Capitalists can find some profit in spirituality, we will start making real progress.

God by way of balance sheet.

[Bill Ryan]

---------

Very fair question. My personal answer:

I have clear memories going back many lifetimes. When you feel the strong emotion attached to certain things that happened, you know it's real.

Everyone who's experienced this will know exactly what I mean. It's not imagination when you're racked with tears because of something or someone you lost that you're re-experiencing.

[truthseekerdan]

Hello,

For me reincarnation makes a lot of sense from a logical point of view. And I know there is evidence to support this theory. But for me this is all it is at this moment: a theory that makes sense and that I really like to believe in (because it relives the fear of death/destruction).

So, for you folks that say you chose to come here, how do you know that? How do you know you have not been sent here as punishment? Or as a promotion? Or as a chance to learn something new? Or to redeem yourselves? How can you be so sure when you are talking about reincarnation?

I would imagine that some of you have a conscious memory or a feeling of having made a choice to come here? Or perhaps a higher point of view than myself.

Please note that I am not attacking anybody, I am just curious and trying to make sense of what I may have come here to do :)

Hi pixel, great questions you brought up. :yo:

Our beliefs are the filters and substance of consciousness and if we are going to transform our consciousness, we need to enhance our beliefs with first hand direct experience and understanding. Without first hand direct experience and understanding we will only have someone else’s recycled beliefs.

Remember to take what you read here now as valuable, but not, as infallible. Know that you are your own highest authority and do not place your source of authority outside of yourself. Below are some 'good' starting references that you can check, but ultimately you have the freedom of choice to believe it as 'your own truth'. Hope this helps...:love: ~ Dan

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?7627-Nanci-Danison-NDE-(very-detailed)

KPTABj96MyY

[13th Warrior]

Sorry Wood!

Blaming someone else for your condition is the antithesis of learning.

If you want to start moving forward you're going to need to take responsibility for you or; you can trudge, trudge, trudge...

[13th Warrior]

Wood,

I will add; imperfect by whom's standards?

[Wood]

Sorry Wood!

Blaming someone else for your condition is the antithesis of learning.

If you want to start moving forward you're going to need to take responsibility for you or; you can trudge, trudge, trudge...

Can you blame a used car seller for a damaged car? Are you the maker of your body? I think it is the vehicle, the body, not the spirit that is defective. Other people rather think it is the spirit what is lacking, when spirits come from God. I'd be glad to concede that spirits can grow (and shrink) their awarenes, but that does not mean some external being has to assign lessons to learn in order to be perfect again. I take full responsibility for my spirit, not for this body I am using for a while.


Wood,

I will add; imperfect by whom's standards?
That is a good point :)
I think we are not fully aware of our choices (due to damaged spiritual link) and that it would be nice to expand that awareness. That's what I meant with imperfect. Of course I recognise everyone has their own path so many may be perfectly happy with things as they are. Most people in the world shows little interest in awakening.

[DawgBone]

Well, I'd rather say that it is not casual that our bodies have such a short lifespan and that we are born without remembering past lives. That is what is behind all the talk about reptilians or other ETs tweaking our DNA to put us into a trap we can't easily escape. I think the key part is that we have a weak spiritual connection and all the wrong ideas we are being fed since childhood make it very difficult for us to develop the spiritual link. They rule us through chaos, confusion and deception.

The idea behind lessons to learn implies we are imperfect, impure beings. I'd rather say the imperfection has been imposed on us and that the game has been designed to keep us here, always in debt. I like the analogy of a banker that tricks people into borrowing money to buy unnecessary stuff, and then charges abusive interests so that the debt can't be repayed.

Yes. The banking metaphor is perfect! And it is more than metaphor. The microcosm reflects the macrocosm. We are preyed upon in the physical world and possibly by higher dimensional beings.

The reptilian explanation is bizarre and unbelievable, but it certainly does fit the facts.

[13th Warrior]

You made the choice, you don't like the outcome you blame the banker. Responsibility people!!!

[DawgBone]

Sorry Wood!

Blaming someone else for your condition is the antithesis of learning.

If you want to start moving forward you're going to need to take responsibility for you or; you can trudge, trudge, trudge...

I don't see it as a matter of blaming someone else and avoiding responsibility. It's about acknowledging the reality of the situation.

If you are prey, you should recognize that fact. You should study your predators, study their techniques, study their strategies.

Then you have some chance of freeing yourself.

[13th Warrior]

My body is sick; it's all Monsantos fault feeding me all this GMO food. Once again someone elses fault you can't provide yourself with the nouishment you need.

[Wood]

You made the choice, you don't like the outcome you blame the banker. Responsibility people!!!

Maybe some people made the choice after the banker drugged them. Sure, ultimately people is responsible of that, and I do not blame the banker for its nature. I think, however, there are new spirits that have freely decided to incarnate here for the first time, in damaged bodies, to help others out of the trap.
You made an insightful point about that original bad choice though.


My body is sick; it's all Monsantos fault feeding me all this GMO food. Once again someone elses fault you can't provide yourself with the nouishment you need.

That is the part about abusive interests to make it almost impossible to recover from the single original sin, the bad choice.

[charcia1]

Well I did meditation, and the first thing that came in my mind is that your Self never mind for suffering, for your Self, it doesnt matter, for your Mind, it does matter.

[13th Warrior]

Wood,

You see it as impossible because you don't know what to do; then learn...find the answers. One cannot do physically what isn't in one's mind first.

"Do or do not, there is no try"

[Sarahmay]

Through the process of past life regression, with a trained therapist, many people have vivid, relevant and sometimes very surprising remembrances of their past lives. Others don't seem to be able to "go there"...but if you do, it is as real as this life.

[Limor Wolf]

I always liked the biblical idea of "eye for an eye,thooth for a thooth",that is karma,even before i "knew" it exists.
but today seeing and feeling the suffering in the world,i believe its a too harsh way to learn.i tend to believe that as much as our life here is pre-programmed,than life after the death of our physical body,might be also part of the program. and vice versa.let me say it differently:
reincarnation for human is a part of the Experiment.

if we could only find out about other races and karma/reincarnation, and about higher dimensions and reincarnation etc.do they have it as well?

thank you for the question,pixel

[Lord Sidious]

---------

Very fair question. My personal answer:

I have clear memories going back many lifetimes. When you feel the strong emotion attached to certain things that happened, you know it's real.

Everyone who's experienced this will know exactly what I mean. It's not imagination when you're racked with tears because of something or someone you lost that you're re-experiencing.

Or the feeling that you get when you see photos or film of people that you knew them. That is another one.

[NancyV]

I have considered reincarnation from many perspectives for many years, but to prove it is impossible and it's almost impossible to explain even your own experiences. There are many cases of adults and even small children remembering "past lives" with details that can be proven, but that does not prove that the soul inhabiting your present body is the exact same soul that inhabited the body in the previous lifetime you are remembering. It doesn't mean it ISN'T the same soul, but it's something that cannot be proven.

Although I have left my body through meditation hundreds of times and traveled on other planes up to merging with the Source, I cannot tell you that what I came to know about souls coming into "physical" form is the one and only possibility, because the possibilities are endless. What I experienced over and over is that when I merge with other souls along the way, in various planes or dimensions, we become one soul. All experiences are shared and belong to the one merged soul which is really only one being, not several souls merged. This happens as you "travel" further and further all the way up to the Source where there is still only ONE. So you are only becoming more of yourself, or gathering yourself together until you are whole.

So if I come into a body in this world and I remember in detail a life I feel like I lived, is that life one lived by this particular soul I am aware of now inhabiting this body, or perhaps one of the other souls which I merged with and became more of me on some other plane of existence? What I have experienced is that there is only one Over-Soul, one Source and we have all lived all lives that have ever been lived or are all experiencing in this now moment all expressions of the Source, since there is no time and it definitely is not linear as we tend to look at it. This is so complex that there truly is no easy answer that can be given in words even if one has experienced merging with various souls temporarily separated from the one soul - the Source.

Even if I were to argue that I remember specific "recent" lives in the history of this Earth plane (which I do) and those remembered lives convince me that I know what reincarnation is, it would be like arguing that I am less than I truly am if I confine myself to such a small or compressed view which is stuck in time, viewing reincarnations as linear. It was very simple to know everything when I was the Source or even when I became more of me along the way, but it is not simple for me to explain in words. Also "knowing" is very different from "thinking about" or explaining something. If you have to think about it you are not knowing it, BEING it. In human form we think about and explain things. Out of body we "know" more along the way, depending on if we're going towards the Source and the wholeness of who we are or taking another detour. Even that implies time and linearity which can be confusing in the overall picture.

The only conclusion I could come to, if there is a conclusion, is that it's all ME. So when people say "I chose to come here into this body" they have good reason to say that, since there is no one else choosing anything FOR them if there is ultimately only ONE. There are no victims, we can only victimize ourselves. That view puts reincarnation into a different light.

Nancy :)

[Rocky_Shorz]

Hello,
I would imagine that some of you have a conscious memory or a feeling of having made a choice to come here? Or perhaps a higher point of view than myself.

Please note that I am not attacking anybody, I am just curious and trying to make sense of what I may have come here to do :)

a day in heaven is a year on earth...

so in 100 days, you have a complete life cycle and when you pass you join back with your family and loved ones...

now after spending time together in paradise, every day being perfection with everything you want, many miss this 3D experience, so the family steps back in for another cycle...

some choose to come back as a pet of the family instead of waiting with a shorter expected lifetime to come back in as a child at a later time... Some come back as a dolphin or bird to experience something new...

your subconscious is your spirit recording every event of this lifetime and remembers those of your past...

[Sebastion]

Hello Pixel and all Avalonians:

I would offer back to you: How do you "know" anything? You and you alone must learn and decide what is truth for you and when you begin to understand that, pursue it to its zenith. If you are dedicated you will find that your truth will expand to ever higher degrees. Your way of how you learn that will by necessity be your way, unique to you.
My own way was to listen and consider what was learned via books, conversation as there were no computers at that time. My decision for myself, was to not believe anything as truth necessarily until I had the direct experience to back it up as truth for me. I was about your age when I began my journey into truth and what an exquisite journey it was, is!
I was fortunate in the beginning as I experienced a number of previous lifetimes via very lucid dreams. I was also born with the ability to astral travel which helped considerably because I learned how to become a spiritual traveler and ultimately took that to its zenith as well.
I can promise you this...it will take great courage and a passion to know on your part before the real truth will begin to reveal itself. If you were to ask "Where is paradise?", I would tell you that you are standing in the center of it! You will need to be bold, brave and adventuresome! The keys to all understanding are ever on your side of the door...and it is all there, waiting for you.

Thank you

[BrianEn]

I believe in reincarnation. I believe that we're all here to learn our lessons. For me this rings true, but some others have different ideas. Was it karma that put into this spot at this time? I don't know. I can only go on what info I have now. I've never had a regression or a memory of a past life. I do have attractions to different times in history that I may or may have not lived. I do believe I have lived before. In those previous lives I may have left things that need to be addressed in this lifetime. I believe that in this lifetime I am taking care of some of those things while creating a set of things to be dealt with in the next life. I don't really know the answers, however I am asking the questions. Maybe I might get the answers, maybe I won't.

[wynderer]

thanks for this thread, Pixel -- my current thinking about reincarnation is that it is a reality, but that it is not a good happy spiritual thing -- i think that here on Earth , reincarnation is a trap, a process controlled by our Reptilian controllers, to keep a steady supply of souls trapped in human bodies as a source of nourishment for them

the idea that we reincarnate to learn spiritual lessons -- even if it just this round of recorded history, as short as that is in terms of infinity , it seems to me that , by now, all of us have had plenty of time to learn lessons that we obviously have not -- lessons like not being mean to each other; not being cruel to innocent helpless animals; not warring on each other; not torturing each other; etc, etc

i also am convinced that at this time, especially w/all the hi-tech mind control stuff, it is very difficult for a soul, when leaving the human body, to get free of the astral planes surrounding Earth & to go to higher planes, & this is especially true when there are mass deaths , as in wars, tsunamis, etc

[13th Warrior]

Wynderer,

The only way to truely know a theif is to having been one yourself. So, you see you have to have been or done these things yourself to have learned those lessons. Having been there yourself you can have the empathy to understand why someone else may be having the same experience. We are all evolving to the same goal but at different levels and rates.

I wonder that if some past life memories aren't necessarily our own but, tapped into racial or group memories in the "information field"? Unless you're of the thought that we are all one and all memories are ours?

[wynderer]

Wynderer,

The only way to truely know a theif is to having been one yourself. So, you see you have to have been or done these things yourself to have learned those lessons. Having been there yourself you can have the empathy to understand why someone else may be having the same experience. We are all evolving to the same goal but at different levels and rates.



13th Warrior, i've had many spontaneous memories of past lives -- also i read, a lot -- i think a good book, a good movie, or a good conversation w/a good friend can teach one as much about different life experiences as a memory of a past life -- there may be more emotion associated w/a recall/reliving of a past life, but i respectfully disagree that the only way we learn is thru our own experiences -- we're not in this big adventure called Life all alone, all by ourselves

[Banshee]

In my experience, reincarnation is a fact.

I chose to come here, not as punishment but as elective atonement. I remember the moments just before birth, when with a guide I made a conscious decision. I remember the moment of birth ( i was royally po'd - it hurts and is very humiliating) and had a very judgemental view of most with whom I came into contact in early life. Early life was a cakewalk for me with respect to awareness, talent, energy, etc. . Then karma reared its head and this life became much more challenging. No doubt the challenges are self imposed to further that sense of needing to atone. I am glad that I chose to come here.

[Ilie Pandia]

Thank you all for the answers so far :)

They are interesting and some quite unexpected. It would seem that there is still "work to be done" that I will have do to by myself :)

[13th Warrior]

Wynderer,

Im not saying it's the only way to learn.

What i'm saying is "your wiseman don't know how it feels to be thick as a brick"

[Fredkc]

And I have only one question... How do you know?
Lemme start with the question.
I don't. Not in the empirical sense. I can't give you a previous phone number, or address.
Couldn't tell you where I buried the bodies, or the gold from a previous life.

But... I know. I have had several flashes from other times, leak through.
Enough to have detected a certain quality to those, that is different from the usual wondering, day dream, etc. Now here is the next step.

One of those involves someone who I know in this life (in fact, for a while we were married). Not only do I recognize her, she recognizes me, AND we both recall the same events that led to our parting ways in that previous life. Additionally we both know of a third party involved in that life whom we have in our lives today.

Now, if you are looking for objective data I can print out, and hand you. "Dis ain't it!". But, as subjective information goes, it is good enough for me to conclude the subject is not just some fantasy.

Next subject: The term "Reincarnation"
I couldn't think of a worse name for it. In fact I defer to a great songwriter by the name of Biff Rose who once said, "Re-in-carnation just means you get re-born as a flower."

Here's why;
Time is a crock. No such animal, in the eternal scheme of things. So, if you subscribe to the notion that we are some form of eternal being, then how can that being experience time, other than to "fall for it" within one manifestation, or another? Just doesn't make sense.

What my current working picture is then, is to think of all this in terms of a flower. We are the eternal center giving off petals/lifetimes. In short, we are all of our incarnations at once.

It may even be true that the difference between so-called "great souls" and yer everyday run-of-the-mill people, etc is involved with how many lifetimes our energy is "feeding" at once. The fewer we are supporting, the more energy we can channel into each one.

Anyway, My 2 cents worth,
Fred

[DawgBone]

Great post, Fred! I like the flower metaphor.

[MiguelQ]

like buriska kid said.. they broke the stones, and the spirits came down to earth... :S

but one thing makes me wonder.. if im here in body because i wanted, and parents body contains some souls, that might not be actually my family, since i on previous past lifes had another family, so i might have another mothers and so on.. So they are actually not my family you have no familly at all.

What you need as a spirit to came on earth:
1- the body

The body is a combination of DNA
what means in latin for me incarnation? > in carna ..like in portuguese in carne -> in meat/flesh -> in body.. got it? so its soul experiencing a body reality.

Now Body holds Brain,which is the control center of the body.. so brain equals hardware processing unit..
his hardware is the result of DNA combinations, and different combinatons its like what we see in our computers, some have the latest graphic card, better webcame resolution etc.. this hardware has some properties given by the DNA of parents.

those will limit your abilities, to think, memory(short memory , long memory, even remember past lifes is included), more intuition, more aggressive, smarter, the different areas of the brain and their size could be related to how yours hardware observes the world... now it could be that someone downgraded us to have no past live memory slot .. which is bad because when the spirits tries to acesss that slot, it is empty.. NO USB DRIVE :S ups.

Your Soul is: the software... and like.. can put your windows7 on a old computer with a weak processor, no blue-ray reader etc.. low memory ram.. etc.. what happens is the this software(the soul) will not fully experience their self.. and will be limited by the brain hardware and body shape... to fully express their Abilities...

IT could BE? because soul needs to experience a different point of view(or reality) in order to understand and learn, some like "if my soul incarnated on a people that is.. handicapped lets say, how will i (the soul) manage it? well its a sort of a game! you selected before coming over earth. After dead your soul will be filtered and memories converted to experience and it will be indexed on the SOUL data bank, for further analyses :S weird isn't it? right i could be wrong, but i might be in the real path..

Its like we are slaves of the higher consciousness SOURCE to experience other realities to add more data and consciousness to the ONE source, of all knowledge. we are like plant roots, looking for water to feed the ONE higher.

AND THe human behaviour of war, is a BUG in the system, like a virus, that confused the body and peoples minds, with social memory that there must be a war and fight to control other people" that memory.. which is a "concept" installed in the system, its wrong! because if we kill "the SOURCE roots.." we aren't exploring the realities and thus the source is not "learning" is because theirs roots are dying , and the is no progression on Wisdom.

To justify that war is a social memory aspect, like a virus, you just need to think on this: if you take a group of good oriented people that are not with the virus of war, and transport it to another planet.. the kids born there and so on, wouldn't know what fight and war means.. they would grow in a good way i think.. War arised on earth because there are secondary interested of someone to fight..and that will ruin humanity. A nuclear bomb perhaps.. this is what aliens are aware of.. but they cannot interfere with us.. because this is our self history.

the same way you wouldnt's save a ant, because there is a water puddle on their "home" you just dont care right? their life is insignificant comparing to tour intelligence and superior being.. we are the ant.. comparing to them

but im thankful for my choice in the body i in.. to have certain hardware components that allow my soul to express the good that there is inside of me..and to be human, a good person, and ability to think in all this subjects and be aware of part of the reality that we live in.." i know my sould came from a good place. i feel it.

[Wood]

Now Body holds Brain,which is the control center of the body.. so brain equals hardware processing unit..
his hardware is the result of DNA combinations, and different combinatons its like what we see in our computers, some have the latest graphic card, better webcame resolution etc.. this hardware has some properties given by the DNA of parents.

those will limit your abilities, to think, memory(short memory , long memory, even remember past lifes is included), more intuition, more aggressive, smarter, the different areas of the brain and their size could be related to how yours hardware observes the world... now it could be that someone downgraded us to have no past live memory slot .. which is bad because when the spirits tries to acesss that slot, it is empty.. NO USB DRIVE :S ups.

Your Soul is: the software... and like.. can put your windows7 on a old computer with a weak processor, no blue-ray reader etc.. low memory ram.. etc.. what happens is the this software(the soul) will not fully experience their self.. and will be limited by the brain hardware and body shape... to fully express their Abilities...

I was thinking in a similar analogy a few days ago. I think the brain is the computer, including hard drive, cpu, and the operating system that provides simple behaviours, and the software that has been installed (i.e. the tasks and basic themes to be experienced during the incarnation). Then, the spirit is the person using the computer. The problem might be that the computer has been hacked so that the user has forgotten he/she exists outside the computer and he/she sees him/herself inside a virtual reality where he/she is using a smaller computer. After fake death he/she still finds him/herself in that virtual reality and starts another game, that is, the wheel of birth, death and reincarnation.

[MiguelQ]

its the only way i could see sense in life. because like and death are not sense.. because wisdom is lost.

We really need to get an DNA upgrade to "express" new hardware that can communicate with the soul, and express better intentions and change the path for good!

sometimes i watch my animals, and think.. " im looking to your eyes, and can feel you... but it must be so.. bad to be on your body, with your limitations, cannot think well, not smart like we humans are.." its like a dead person? they only can eat and watch? its sad.. why they choose to be on that body .. thats weird.

i would like to see if incarnating in an alien body is on my history game catalog.

[Wood]

sometimes i watch my animals, and think.. " im looking to your eyes, and can feel you... but it must be so.. bad to be on your body, with your limitations, cannot think well, not smart like we humans are.." its like a dead person? they only can eat and watch? its sad.. why they choose to be on that body .. thats weird.

I think each spirit is a fragment of God's conscience, and that there are spirits 'incarnated' everywhere, from a rock to a human and beyond. It is just about how much awareness each spirit has. A spirit may choose to expand or to shrink awareness, and any way is good as long as it is what that spirit desires to experience. References to the 'evil one' appear in many spiritual systems and I think the basic idea is that an extremely powerful spirit (immense awareness) chose to play god and created his own limited playground/prision for spirits where true free will is compromised through deception (the only way at the spirit level).

I am with you that I'll like to expand my awareness, but other people want to dissolve into God, into the void to find peace. It is another way and it is also beautiful.

[Inelia]

- "But I don't believe in reincarnation!" he protested.
- SQUEAK.
- And this, Mr Pounder understood with absolute rodent clarity, meant:
Reincarnation believes in you.

-- (Terry Pratchett, Maskerade)

[MiguelQ]

i dont know if i want the upgrade or connect with source.. but one think im sure, this world cannot continue like this. And i think this why homosexuality is becoming more popular.. no kids born, less souls arriving... perhaps the ONE already cached enough information, and now it does not need anymore.

[witchy1]

And i think this why homosexuality is becoming more popular

Hi MiguelQ, is this really what you meant to say??????? Homosexuality is not a choice or a fad like going out to buy the latest pair of popular shoes. Its part of who one is. It is no more "popular" now than it ever was, its just that we are more accepting of it and people are comfortable with that and are open about it. The animal kingdom is the same - dolphins monkey etc. Not "popular" but alternative to heterosexuals.

[rgray222]

After many years of thinking and studying about this issue I truly believe in reincarnation, which in itself is an odd conclusion to reach from a guy that went to Catholic schools his entire life and gave serious thought to becoming a priest, I discovered women and the priesthood was jettisoned rather quickly.

My earliest memory in this life was choosing to come to this planet, before I arrived I was tasked with learning certain things and correcting certain behaviors, they are of a personal nature which I do not want to get into here. Being raised in a religious manner, I was challenged with holding on to this memory because everyone and everything around me was saying this could not be so, this does not happen, this way of thinking is fantasy nor does it fit in with what the bible wants us to believe. To say it was a struggle to hold on to my first memory is an understatement. I, like college kids of today underwent an indoctrination and not an education.

A period of enlightenment or discovery was probably the worst time of my life. My wife and I were living in Paris, the house was paid for by the company I worked for so it was extremely nice. It had an actual library in it, all the books were in French so I had to find my own reading material elsewhere. For two years I would go to work and come home and lock myself in the library and read. I started with the bible, the New Testament, the Old Testament. Then I turned my attention to reincarnation, I read every book, article or story that I could get my hands on. My appetite for anything reincarnation was voracious.

This obsession almost cost me my marriage, it certainly did not build any solid relationships with my young children but I had to know the answer, I had to reach a place where this is either a false belief or this is absolutely true. After reading, and more importantly thinking I found the answer.

It was right in front of me the entire time. It was the first memory, it was vivid, it was real and it was honest. I tried so hard through science and intellectual means to prove or disprove reincarnation. I worked so hard and sacrificed almost everything but the answer was in front of me the entire time.

My point of sharing this much personal information about my life is that most of the time the answer is already in you! You already have the truth you just need to find a way to unlock it.

Pixel, good thought and good question!

[MiguelQ]

Hi MiguelQ, is this really what you meant to say??????? Homosexuality is not a choice or a fad like going out to buy the latest pair of popular shoes. Its part of who one is. It is no more "popular" now than it ever was, its just that we are more accepting of it and people are comfortable with that and are open about it. The animal kingdom is the same - dolphins monkey etc. Not "popular" but alternative to heterosexuals.

no i dont meant to say its a choice.. i mean because people are accepting it more, it means that, no more kids perhaps are need to be born, its like the cycle is getting completed, there is no more urge to incarnate! the souls portal is closing...

I know what homosexual means because im one part of it ;P
my mission is not to have kids or something.. im just a visitor

[truth4me]

Spiritual work is the key. Good point you made....it's working for me.

[Teakai]

What if your mother did not marry to your father? Because your father found another more beautiful girl. Or because your mother found another rich guy.
If so, then you were not born, you are not who you are today, you are not browsing the Internet now, you are not login to Avalon, you are not looking at this message. YOU ARE NOT EXIST!

Then, where are you now?

Hi, Atut, 'You' are not your body. 'You' are not the result of your mother and father. 'You' are not who you think you are, if this is who you think you are.

This physicality you are inhabiting at this moment is a vehicle which enables 'You' to intereact with this version of reality and you chose that for what use it would be to your growth while in your higher state.

I like this from the Gnostics: 29 - Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, that is a marvel, 2but if spirit came into being because of the body, that is a marvel of marvels. 3 Yet I marvel at how this great wealth has come to dwell in this poverty."

[Teakai]

Hello,

I see in a lot of the replies on this forum posts about reincarnation stated with a tone of obvious facts:

"You chose to be here now!"

"You came here to do this and that!"

"You chose your family and environment"

"This is a bad place to incarnate on right now"

"You came here to help"

And I have only one question... How do you know?

For me reincarnation makes a lot of sense from a logical point of view. And I know there is evidence to support this theory. But for me this is all it is at this moment: a theory that makes sense and that I really like to believe in (because it relives the fear of death/destruction).

So, for you folks that say you chose to come here, how do you know that? How do you know you have not been sent here as punishment? Or as a promotion? Or as a chance to learn something new? Or to redeem yourselves? How can you be so sure when you are talking about reincarnation?

I would imagine that some of you have a conscious memory or a feeling of having made a choice to come here? Or perhaps a higher point of view than myself.

Please note that I am not attacking anybody, I am just curious and trying to make sense of what I may have come here to do :)

Hi Pixel.
I don't think that this is something you can convince anyone of. It is something they must find the truth of for themselves. The way I see it, is that by seeing and removing from ourselves that which is false we see what is truth.

[Teakai]

Why have I been created?

Is my purpose here to evolve into a higher spiritual being?

The more I learn the more i want to learn; eventually reaching the point where i realize that i have more to learn than I could possible achieve in a single lifetime...even if I where to live 1000 years in one lifetime.

Then the answer to your question becomes clear; you need many lifetimes to learn all the lessons this world has to teach and for you to "get it right".

"And that's all I have to say about that"

Hi, 13th warrior,

39 Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. 2 They have not entered, nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. 3As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves."
(From the gospel of Thomas)

Maybe this is why the process takes such a long time.
They did it then, they’re doing it still.

[Ilie Pandia]

Hey,

I feel some clarification is needed. I do not need to be convinced about reincarnation being real or not. I am convinced, just that is an "intellectual" thing not a personal experience yet.

I got my answer to my question in various forms: some have always have had a memory before birth that they are sure of, others have remembered things later on in life, others have access to some knowledge that validates this for them. I got all this.

As I have said in the original post, I have asked this question to mostly help myself, to maybe understand better some of my own experiences (that thus far are not very clear). So I thank you for your help :)

[xm15e2]

MV1w0AgmUB4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV1w0AgmUB4

[13th Warrior]

Greetings Teakai,

Thank you for your comment!

You have chosen scripture as your guide; I have not.

I hope you find it to be a usefull vehicle.

Pixel,

I think i know where you are comming from. The word thought is powerfull; the word spoken even more so... It helps me greatly to think out loud.

[Teakai]

Hey,

I feel some clarification is needed. I do not need to be convinced about reincarnation being real or not. I am convinced, just that is an "intellectual" thing not a personal experience yet.

I got my answer to my question in various forms: some have always have had a memory before birth that they are sure of, others have remembered things later on in life, others have access to some knowledge that validates this for them. I got all this.

As I have said in the original post, I have asked this question to mostly help myself, to maybe understand better some of my own experiences (that thus far are not very clear). So I thank you for your help :)

Hi Pixel, forgive me if I'm wrong, but your reply comes across as a little defensive. Perhaps you have taken my post in a tone that wasn't intended.

And, if you're convinced it exists - then you must know you have already had personal experience :)

[Teakai]

Greetings Teakai,

Thank you for your comment!

You have chosen scripture as your guide; I have not.
I hope you find it to be a usefull vehicle.

Pixel,

I think i know where you are comming from. The word thought is powerfull; the word spoken even more so... It helps me greatly to think out loud.

No I haven’t 13th Warrior – that’s an amazingly broad assumption you drew from just one quote.
And the quote wasn't from scripture.

[13th Warrior]

Hi Teakai,

I haven't written anything offensive, yet you've taken offense?

My assumption is only based upon what you've written and nothing more.

I thank you for your quote. It may hold value for you but, I am sorry that i find little value in it for myself.

[rgray222]

I have posted on a thread called "the Creator" once before and I saw this posted one more time on PA but for those that have not read it, its worth your time. It is a story written by Andy Weir called "The Egg". I think it is appropriate for this thread! On my site I call it "I am every man".

http://www.educatinghumanity.com/p/i-am-every-man.html

[sunnyrap]

There is a disconnect in my mind about the notion 'we have come here to learn' and the idea that 'we are immortal beings having a mortal experience'. If we are immortal beings, then we already know everything. What's to learn? Would coming here introduce us to something new? How could that be? Also, there are a number of researchers --George Kavassilas georgekavassilas.org and Robert Morningsky come to mind--who put forth the idea we were tricked into coming here to be slaves and got stuck. This whole 'you chose to be here' meme may have been designed to keep us placid and cooperative and not investigate what is going on too closely. Just my 2c...

[13th Warrior]

Hi Sunnyrap,

If you are all knowing; how where you so easily tricked?

[Wood]

Hi Sunnyrap,

If you are all knowing; how where you so easily tricked?

I do not think spirits are all knowing, otherwise there would be no point in being more than one. I believe spirits may have some mechanism to limit their view points, a trade-off between how wide is its knowledge of the overall picture and how much detail can it perceive. Another theory is that spirits can have a different level of consciousness. A way to picture is that each spirit is an sphere in the sea of consciousness of God's mind, but the size of the sphere does not need to be the same for each spirit.

The trickster spirit, and I strongly believe there is one, is either a spirit with a very good understanding of the big picture or a spirit with a very large consciousness sphere. That is, "the most powerful amongst angels".

[Wesly]

I have an accented master on the other side of life who educates me on many, many, subjects. the soul returns after 50 to
2 hundered years, but the spirit stays on the other side, it has the memories of that last life, it slowly becomes apart of the
heaven but never realy goes away, the spirit will continue to talk and enjoy the love ones in heaven. In heaven there is no time
or distance, you can spend a life in the future befor spending a life in the present. The soul chooses a life based on what it needs to
learn to be one like God. but love is the must determaning factor on ones return back threw life, your memories never leave the
soul, but you may be a female or male when coming back through life. The angels control the domain of heaven, they may determain
that you be in a certain body for a very important agenda being played out on this planet.

[Teakai]

Hi Teakai,

I haven't written anything offensive, yet you've taken offense?

My assumption is only based upon what you've written and nothing more.

I thank you for your quote. It may hold value for you but, I am sorry that i find little value in it for myself.

Hi 13th Warrior - you have assumed wrongly on 2 counts, now. I wasn't at all offended and I'm not at all religious.

[noprophet]

Always liked this short story.
A probe called curiosity (http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/vision.html)

[PUNK2424]

http://www.slideshare.net/guest252977/revelations-of-an-elite-family-insider-2005

[skyflower]

---------

Very fair question. My personal answer:

I have clear memories going back many lifetimes. When you feel the strong emotion attached to certain things that happened, you know it's real.

Everyone who's experienced this will know exactly what I mean. It's not imagination when you're racked with tears because of something or someone you lost that you're re-experiencing.


So it will be safe to say that I wasn't really losing my marbles when I cried without reason when looking at the night sky filled with stars. Every time I look up, there is a turning, twisting feeling in my chest, and I fight my tears. It's been like that for a long time. It's a strange feeling, and I could never figure out why. Maybe reincarnation has something to do with it.

[wynderer]

So it will be safe to say that I wasn't really losing my marbles when I cried without reason when looking at the night sky filled with stars. Every time I look up, there is a turning, twisting feeling in my chest, and I fight my tears. It's been like that for a long time. It's a strange feeling, and I could never figure out why. Maybe reincarnation has something to do with it.

same with me, Skyflower -- i've been told i'm an ET walk-in -- this could be -- but i have spent hours & hours & hours of my life looking at the skies, day & night, w/such a feeling of being far away from my home -- crying sometimes, too

[skyflower]

Thank you Wynderer. It feels less lonely to know that I am not alone here. :) It seems that the more "aware" I become, this "homesickness" keeps getting stronger.

[physicistatwork]

The question regarding reincarnation as a self-improving "mechanism" which I would like an answer to is: How can anyone improve if one loses recollection of previous reincarnations?

[Seikou-Kishi]

The idea is that the 'directing force' behind the life knows what has gone before, but the person within the life doesn't know. Reincarnation is like wearing a different finger puppet every day, the finger knows what happened before lol. The life-director, call it what you will, a spirit, a Holy Guardian Angel, whatever, chooses certain events in order experience as wide a spectrum of events, and from every perspective, as possible. The 'liver' doesn't know during life what is going to happen or why because that would alter the experience.

[physicistatwork]

Well, I'd rather say that it is not casual that our bodies have such a short lifespan and that we are born without remembering past lives. That is what is behind all the talk about reptilians or other ETs tweaking our DNA to put us into a trap we can't easily escape. I think the key part is that we have a weak spiritual connection and all the wrong ideas we are being fed since childhood make it very difficult for us to develop the spiritual link. They rule us through chaos, confusion and deception.

The idea behind lessons to learn implies we are imperfect, impure beings. I'd rather say the imperfection has been imposed on us and that the game has been designed to keep us here, always in debt. I like the analogy of a banker that tricks people into borrowing money to buy unnecessary stuff, and then charges abusive interests so that the debt can't be repayed.

This creation "thing" with multiple lives for "improvement and attaining perfection" has always appeared to me as BS(sorry!). Why on earth would a God create someone imperfect so he could evolve to perfection? Does that make any sense? Were I a powerful being, capable of creating other beings I would certainly do my best to create as perfect a being as I could. But creating a being which has to improve through painful lifetimes to be able to acquire perfection...please...pull the other one ...!?

[noprophet]

Think of it as expanding perfection to the next level. The number one is in itself complete. Call the soul one. It wants to expand itself so it goes within and traverses itself recreating it's own structure but as a multiple. Eventually it becomes 10. Which is just 1 on a higher level. 1-0. It helps to think of this as infinite expansion. Not simply improvement. That's a perspective word.

[Seikou-Kishi]

I'm not entirely sure I follow your reasoning, NoProphet; perfection is in itself a type of infinitude and it's no more possible to be 'more perfect' than it is to have a 'favouritest' sweater or to be 'more best' at swimming

[Teakai]

The question regarding reincarnation as a self-improving "mechanism" which I would like an answer to is: How can anyone improve if one loses recollection of previous reincarnations?

You don't lose it, physicistatwork. At essence you are the sum of all previous experiences and if you connect with your authentic self you are able to access that information at a conscious level as you require it.
At the supraconscious level all the information exists.

[Arrowwind]

I know that I chose to be here because I remebered that I chose.
I also remembered that the origin of my soul came from another constellation
and that I have been in the human drama for many long ages. I remembered
that I came her in part to learn how to serve humanity, as well as for my own evolution

I have memory of my last life in about 1853... I am still unsure if these events are linear or circular or simultaneous
but I have definately met people in this life that I knew in that life.

If I were to ask you how do you know that you attended 6th grade you would likley say " Well, because I remember it"
and no one could convince you that it did not happen or that you made it up.
and that is how I know what I know, and when you remember that is how you will know what you know.

[webyourstuff]

I believe we are not bodies but souls that have a material vehicle that lasts for some time, the body. I am in the same place as we all are: in God's mind. In case I were not using this body I'd be in another one or just not incarnated for a while.

This is a totally accurate answer.

But I do find it difficult to answer your question fully, Pixel. While it is true all aspects of our lives are things we have agreed to, I have also seen some of those are agreements we were tricked into, rather than things we chose.

Nevertheless, I have also seen, the ONLY way out is full acceptance of the creation of those situations we are in.

BTW, I am speaking from the viewpoint of one who can remember many past lives. Unfortunately, I have poor memory of what we are calling here "between lives area", which is where your question must be answered.

[wynderer]

The question regarding reincarnation as a self-improving "mechanism" which I would like an answer to is: How can anyone improve if one loses recollection of previous reincarnations?

exactly -- maybe in other places in the Universe, reincarnation acts as that 'self-improving mechanism' -- but here on this dying planet, it's a tool of the controllers to keep plenty of souls trapped here as their source of nourishment [imo]

[mahavakya]

Birth, death and sleep are concepts. Nobody can remember these things ever happening. Why not abandon them? Who we are is permanent - does move or go anywhere, does it? Why not enjoy the concepts of immortality, forever awake, peace ................... since this is our actual experience anyway?

[silentghost80]

And I have only one question... How do you know?

:)

I believe it is different and very personal for a lot of people .
In my instance my first memory was coming into me body seeing my fetal hand ,with the feeling i came here to help it has been in my nature to want to help others more than i do my self . That is what started it for me :happy: