Gnostic Christianity and Eastern Philosophy - An invitation to Private Study

[Truthster013]

Lately I've been craving a deep and meaningful discussion (debate if you must call it that) on the topic of Gnostic Christianity and Eastern forms of Philosophy and how they relate to the Western canon of writings we call the Bible and modern Christian thought. Namely I'm looking to discuss with someone well versed in the "Bible" whether the God of the Bible is actually evil (i.e. Gnostic Christians had that right), if our physical existence is merely a trap or prison to entrap spiritual beings, and the concepts of the ego or the illusion of self (eastern concept of Maya) in regards to enlightenment or spiritual awakening.

I don't mind debate if you want to argue with me that the Bible is accurate and Gnosticsim is a heresy but if all you want to do is convince me I'm wrong, save your time. I'm only interested in sincere truth seeking people willing to admit that they may be in error too (not someone hardheaded with an agenda). I have LOTS of opinions and am very well educated in traditional Christian thinking. I'm looking to discuss with others why I finally left that traditional model of Christianity in favor of a more Gnostic or eastern way of seeing the Bible and discussing that in detail.

Lastly I want to clarify that what I'm looking for is conversation with people about your personal thoughts and beliefs, not a study where I'm directed to watch a video or read a book. This is about conversation, getting to know each other, and throwing back and forth "what if" type questions.

[enigma3]

Have you read the Gospel of Thomas? If so, how much do you understand? That's a good place to start.

I have read some Gnostic texts. They had it right, but not as regards duality and living in a body. The Gnostics did not have warm feelings for duality and the body, which is, as Buddhists would say, based on ignorance - not knowing. After full awakening it is realized that the energies of infinity infuse all levels of being, even duality. Thus the saying "heaven on earth". It would be nice if we could go back in time and "see" how many Gnostic masters were fully awake.

[Truthster013]

Hey all, I have been monitoring this thread and see cool stats saying people are viewing it but no one is leaving a comment or anything. Even if you aren't sure what the hell I'm talking about, shoot me a comment! I'm assuming since you clicked on the topic it must be at least mildly interesting to you. So tell me what caused you to come look. That's a start! I'm super kind! :)

[Truthster013]

Thanks for responding. Yes I have read the Gospel of Thomas but not sure how to answer the question "how much do you understand". That's a kind of loaded and deep question. It's like asking someone if they have read the Bible and how much do they understand. People can argue all day that you must not understand if you didn't come to their same conclusion. One thing I find particularly difficult with the whole Gnostic discussion is that you can't really say exactly what all Gnostics think any more than you can give a blanket statement of what Christians think. Christians are all over the place with different understanding of the same verses and so do Gnostics.

[sparrow7]

Gnostics.are.not.Christian.they.pretend.to.Their.main.god.is.Sophia.The.Gnostic.Christ.is.a.feminine .man.

Interesting.how.they.describe.the.Archons.but.then.again.their.mother.is.Sophia.
I.think.Sophia.the.mother.of.the.Archons.is.pictured.as.a.mother.so.she.resembles.the.Saint.Sophia.t hat.adopted.Orphans

Sophia.is.a.mother.that.adopts.to.give.enlightment.discipline.and.feminism.
In.the.end.you.will.burn.your.self(sophia's.enlightment)disciplin.your.self(she.will.torture.you)and .become.a.feminine.feline

She.is.the.Devil.friend.She.is.Lucifera.the.goat.mother.and.her.son.Lucifer.
There.are.other.Lucifers.but.we.are.talking.about.the.Goat.one.

Gnosticism.is.a.way.to.renounce.your.true.self.for.Sophia's.enlightment
Will.you.accept.the.bargen.

You.will.get.some.knowlege.as.gnosticism.means.knowlege.(gnosis)but.this.gnosis.comes.at.a.cost.it's .not.free.You.will.have.to.sell.out.

[Truthster013]

Thanks for the response sparrow7. I'm not sure why all the periods instead of spaces in your post. Makes it a little rough to read. I do disagree with your statement that Gnostics are not Christians. It's like saying that any particular denomination is not really Christian if they don't agree with your particular understanding. Gnostics appear to me to be a fairly significant sized group in the day and age in which Christianity rose. The Gospel of Thomas which as been mentioned here for example has many quotes that ended up in the modern New Testament. Many scholars believe it was written before the books that quote from them and was their source document. I would therefore not use the phrase "they are not Christians". You may disagree with their understanding of some writings or perhaps more accurately you disagree with what writings they decided were most important, but history seems to say that Gnosticism was a form of Christianity whether most Christians accept it or not today.

[sparrow7]

Thanks for the response sparrow7. I'm not sure why all the periods instead of spaces in your post. Makes it a little rough to read. I do disagree with your statement that Gnostics are not Christians. It's like saying that any particular denomination is not really Christian if they don't agree with your particular understanding. Gnostics appear to me to be a fairly significant sized group in the day and age in which Christianity rose. The Gospel of Thomas which as been mentioned here for example has many quotes that ended up in the modern New Testament. Many scholars believe it was written before the books that quote from them and was their source document. I would therefore not use the phrase "they are not Christians". You may disagree with their understanding of some writings or perhaps more accurately you disagree with what writings they decided were most important, but history seems to say that Gnosticism was a form of Christianity whether most Christians accept it or not today.

My.space.is.not.working.I.could.still.use.the.on.screen.keyboard.to.add.space.
Laptop.keyboards.don't.last.long.
My.new.keyboard.will.come.soon:dirol:

I'm.not.talking.about.Church.Bible.Christians.I.don't.believe.in.that.and.I.am.not.one.of.them.Chris tianity.is.a.practice.craft.just.like.Buddism.is.and.not.a.religion.


Gnosis.means.fire.to.get.the.gnosis.you.use.the.fire.
Fire.burns(your.soul)in.fact.soul.is.like.fire.but.it.blazes.very.strong.(too.strong)and.it.consumes .it's.self.At.the.end.you.get.your.knowlege.but.you.sold.out.and.burned.your.soul.

It's.something.I.would.never.do.on.my.own.accord.This.is.it.in.fact.you.have.to.agree.with.it.give.y our.accord

This.is.what.the.gnostic.practice.is."Soul.Burning"
I.would.stay.away.from.it.

The.soul.is.allowed.to.blaze.as.it.is.solar.but.to.get.enlightened.(gnosis).you.have.to.step.on.the. gas.pedal.and.go.into.overdrive.
This.stage.the.soul.consumes.it's.self.to.give.out.it's.knowlege(sacrifice.of.the.Christ)

Don't.be.stupid.Sophia.is.the.fiery.devil.she.will.use.gnosis.on.you(fire)to.gain.information.consum e.you.by.fire.You.also.find.out.things.but.what.good.is.it.to.you.if.you.have.4%.3%.of.your.soul.lef t.

She.does.this.by.infesting.you.with.her.children.to.start.a.revolt.(archonic.parastic.children)Child ren.light.up.fires.inside.of.you.

Every.one.should.know.that.the.gnostic.method.for.Enlightment.is.a.fraud.
There.are.other.ways.but.it.takes.time.practice.it.can.take.a.life.time.to.undestand.some.things.and .your.soul.will.remain.intact.

Don't.sell.out.for.gnosis.

[sparrow7]

You.can.read.materials.draw.conclusions.
As.they.say.take.the.red.pill.and.go.down.the.rabbit.hole.Take.the.blue.one.and.wake.up.in.your.bed. draw.your.own.conclusions.make.your.own.mind.up.

Red.pill.is.down.the.hole.Blue.one.is.making.your.mind.up.on.your.own.

I.would.not.sell.my.self.my.intelect.my.being.for.anything.They.can't.force.you.to.take.the.RED.pill .you.do.it.on.your.own
Once.you.take.the.Red.pill.you.get.your.gnosis.but.you're.done.you.ate.fire.now.only.a.small.below.5 .%.remains.of.you.

If.you.have.to.fight.and.there.is.no.other.way.there.will.be.fire.but.it's.not.your.fault.so.only.th e.house.burns.down
Oooopppsyyy.I.said.too.much:blushing:

Sophia.is.not.one.entity.she.is.an.archytype.of.being.meaning.she.is.a.kind.of.being.a.spirit.type.A .fiery.Vampire.that.uses.fire.to.set.things.on.

Your.soul.is.like.fire.but.when.fire.burns.too.hard.it.go's.out.

You.are.only.allowed.to.mini.blaze.like.small.breeze.if.you.blaze.like.a.monster.then.it's.bad

Our.sun.in.the.skies.is.the.perfect.example.it's.normal.but.from.time.to.time.it.has.a.solar.storm.t he.sun.has.storms.
If.you.storm.all.the.time.then.you.consume.your.being.
Only.super.natural.beings.can.storm.all.they.like.RAGE.ON.and.ON.and.ON.normal.beings.die.out.

Cheers.

[Truthster013]

I've been contemplating how to respond to this last post. If all you wish to do is warn others against Gnosticsim, then we can leave it at that. Your warning has been noted. If however you wish for you and I to dialogue on this a bit, I may need some clarifications from you.


Christianity.is.a.practice.craft.just.like.Buddism.is.and.not.a.religion.

I may need some clarification from on this from you. What do you mean by "practice craft" like Buddhism? What is your definition of a "religion" and why does Christianity not fit the definition of religion? How does it better suit the definition of "practice craft"?



Gnosis.means.fire.to.get.the.gnosis.you.use.the.fire.
Fire.burns(your.soul)in.fact.soul.is.like.fire.but.it.blazes.very.strong.(too.strong)and.it.consumes .it's.self.At.the.end.you.get.your.knowlege.but.you.sold.out.and.burned.your.soul.......The.soul.is. allowed.to.blaze.as.it.is.solar.but.to.get.enlightened.(gnosis).you.have.to.step.on.the.gas.pedal.an d.go.into.overdrive.
This.stage.the.soul.consumes.it's.self.to.give.out.it's.knowlege(sacrifice.of.the.Christ)

Again, I'll need some clarification here. I would need a better understanding of what you mean by "soul" and how knowledge can burn out a soul. Further, are you suggesting that educating yourself destroys your soul? Does this also mean that the only way to preserve your soul is to remain ignorant and not seek knowledge? Perhaps if I better understand what you mean by "soul" and how knowledge can burn it, it will help. Lastly I do not understand your meaning behind the statement that the soul consumes itself to give out its knowledge and that this somehow equates to the "sacrifice of the Christ". Can you elaborate?



Don't.be.stupid.Sophia.is.the.fiery.devil.she.will.use.gnosis.on.you(fire)to.gain.information.consum e.you.by.fire.You.also.find.out.things.but.what.good.is.it.to.you.if.you.have.4%.3%.of.your.soul.lef t.

Again, without a better understanding of what you mean by soul I cannot understand how one can consume all but 3% or 4% of one's soul. Can a soul be measured in percentages? What if I were to argue that knowledge only consumes about 23.5% of your soul? On what basis would you defend your math vs mine? How does one arrive at the numbers you are using?


Every.one.should.know.that.the.gnostic.method.for.Enlightment.is.a.fraud.
There.are.other.ways.but.it.takes.time.practice.it.can.take.a.life.time.to.undestand.some.things.and .your.soul.will.remain.intact.

Don't.sell.out.for.gnosis.

So again, I leave with thought. If all you want to accomplish is warning people not to seek knowledge, you have done so. If however you want to continue a dialogue we will have to delve into the above questions a bit deeper.

[sparrow7]

I've been contemplating how to respond to this last post. If all you wish to do is warn others against Gnosticsim, then we can leave it at that. Your warning has been noted. If however you wish for you and I to dialogue on this a bit, I may need some clarifications from you.

I.don't.believe.in.Bible.Jesus.But.Bible.jesus.fasted.practiced.meditation,abstained.so.that.is.what .Christianity.is.about.not.going.to.Church.and.listening.to.curch.music.Kissing.icons.and.praying.to .the.saints.
Jesus.got.Chirianity.from.others.there.were.others.there.that.had.knowlege.prior.to.Jesus.like.the.E ssien.sect.and.they.got.it.from.others.
Christianity.is.the.perfect.practice.it's.good.but.the.real.one.




I may need some clarification from on this from you. What do you mean by "practice craft" like Buddhism? What is your definition of a "religion" and why does Christianity not fit the definition of religion? How does it better suit the definition of "practice craft"?

Yes.buddism.actually.is.a.practice.of.discipline.it's.a.martial.art.to.discipline.the.mind.




Again, I'll need some clarification here. I would need a better understanding of what you mean by "soul" and how knowledge can burn out a soul. Further, are you suggesting that educating yourself destroys your soul? Does this also mean that the only way to preserve your soul is to remain ignorant and not seek knowledge? Perhaps if I better understand what you mean by "soul" and how knowledge can burn it, it will help. Lastly I do not understand your meaning behind the statement that the soul consumes itself to give out its knowledge and that this somehow equates to the "sacrifice of the Christ". Can you elaborate?

Not.educating.but.the.art.of.Gnosis.does
Art.of.Gnosis.is.a.practice.just.like.Budism.and.spiritual.practices(fiery.Alchemy)but.in.this.case. it's.a.practice.of.destruction.You.will.destroy.your.self.
Some.practices.are.good.some.bad.




Again, without a better understanding of what you mean by soul I cannot understand how one can consume all but 3% or 4% of one's soul. Can a soul be measured in percentages? What if I were to argue that knowledge only consumes about 23.5% of your soul? On what basis would you defend your math vs mine? How does one arrive at the numbers you are using?

Yes.it's.like.an.elixir.it.has.a.level.it's.why.people.say"you.have.a.big.soul".thank.you.Meaning.you.have.more.soul.than.others.
Then.there.are.others.that.say."you.soules.bastard.aluding.to.the.fact.that.you.have.no.soul.when.you.do.a.careless.thing.and.then.s ome.one.comes.and.says.HEY.HE.FEELS>SORRY.AFTER>ALL.meaning.that.you.have.some.soul.in.you.a.little.bit.afterall




So again, I leave with thought. If all you want to accomplish is warning people not to seek knowledge, you have done so. If however you want to continue a dialogue we will have to delve into the above questions a bit deeper.
[/quote]
I.just.wanted.to.express.my.opinion.on.Gnostics.and.Sophia.that.is.it.

[Truthster013]

I.just.wanted.to.express.my.opinion.on.Gnostics.and.Sophia.that.is.it.

Excellent and thank you for participating in the thread.

[sparrow7]

Sophia.the.Wasp.comes.Drops.inside.larve.after.doing.a.fighting.match.with.you.to.make.you.give.up(a doption.stage)
Archonic.Larve.incubate.and.then.after.coming.to.awareness.starts.conflicts.in.you.control.your.mind .parasitic.control.

Remember.she.is.the.archonic.mother.she.gives.rise.to.her.baby.wasps.that.hatch.inside.of.you.
These.baby.waspens.then.start.fires.inside.of.you.to.depleat.you.and.renounce.your.self.
Once.they.are.done.you.are.like.a.remote.controlled.cocuned.zombie.reciting.on.automatic.Gnosis.from .your.soul.as.it.bursts.outwards.forever.gone.(your.soul.that.is)

Now.give.me.a.hug.for.telling.you.the.truth.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Alien-Newborn.jpg/170px-Alien-Newborn.jpg

[Bubu]

I came from a family of devoted Catholics.
Have you considered the third option which is having no religion at all. works for me.
My enlightenment consist of everyday realization of things that I am doing wrong. Like I should be more accepting, caring, forgiving and loving person.

[greybeard]

I have no doubt Jesus taught the Truth from an enlightened perspective.
However churches have diluted and miss understood the truth.
Eastern Philosophy (Which one?) is probably close.
Mystics have the truth. Its within, as pointed to by Christ the Buddha and others.

Chris

[Truthster013]

Have you considered the third option which is having no religion at all. works for me.
My enlightenment consist of everyday realization of things that I am doing wrong. Like I should be more accepting, caring, forgiving and loving person.

Absolutely. I did not mean to imply in any way that I'm desiring to find a religion to follow or practice. I have no need to follow a religion or lock myself into someone else's belief system. I'm simply looking to discuss the philosophical aspects of various religious traditions and ask questions as to "did they have this right?" or "were they close when they said....?" In other words, I don't want to be dogmatic and defend any religious system as having the 'truth'. Rather, I'm asking to examine some of these models and discuss what parts might be correct or not correct and what that means for a person who maybe is seeking enlightenment and not to belong to a "church" or "religion". I use Christianity and Eastern Philosophy because for me personally I have come to believe my own spirituality has elements of both traditions and I'm curious if others have come to the same sort of conclusions and if not, why, and can we learn from each other by talking about what we agree and disagree with?

[Praxis]

I want to first point you here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_movements_declared_heretical_by_the_Catholic_Church#Early_Christianity

It feels like you are actually talking about Catharism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism)as that is my understanding of their beliefs: God of bible is actually the Demiurge and only of this realm which is the realm of evil and not of spirit or heaven. But then again it also sounds very much like Manicheaism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism). Btw there is a great Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval book about this very subject tracing the Gnostic roots of what you are talking about. I got it title "Master Game" but that is not how he actually released it. I am not sure of the real title.

My question to you is why do you hold on to anything from the bible? There is another thread about the bible itself as a book here that you can find if you look.

It would just say that the Septuagint (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint)(what you call the bible) and the new testament are very different beasts and if you are buying into new testament anything then you are actually following down the wrong path( my supposition is that the real betrayal of Jesus is changing the message of christ( see Peter as he did reject Jesus not once but thrice! and Saul of Tarsus who is such a monster that he had to change his name to Paul and add the title himself Apostle to rebrand himself even though he never was tutored by jesus ) and not the telling of the guards(Judas). What was Saul doing when he received his vision? He was persecuting Christians as Pharisee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharisees).

Betrayal requires countering of intent. Judas never countered his intent(message "I am the light, the way, the truth") but someone else sure did.


I would like to argue from Itism(The Church of the Non Referential It):

It is.
It is good.
It is bad.
It is.

[Truthster013]

I have no doubt Jesus taught the Truth from an enlightened perspective.
However churches have diluted and miss understood the truth.
Eastern Philosophy (Which one?) is probably close.
Mystics have the truth. Its within, as pointed to by Christ the Buddha and others.

Chris

Thanks for adding some thoughts. I might agree with you that what the man people call "Jesus" believed was more closely related to a 'truth' and that the churches that sprung up after his death have diluted his message to the point that it no longer resembles much of the original truth. I apologize if I added a bit to your original thought and that's not all what you meant.

As to eastern philosophy I guess I'll try to summarize. There is a basic teaching of Hinduism and Buddhism that there is one universal source to all things. Everything that exists, comes from the same source. To over simplify the blending of Gnosticism and eastern philosophy I would explain it like this. The one source is constantly dividing itself, creating new life forms, new realities, new dimensions, etc and constantly expanding. One of the things the universal source divided into was perhaps an entity (egoistic construct) which the Gnostics call Sophia. Sophia further divided into other egoisitc constructsi which the Gnostics call the Demiurge. This Demiurge further divided itself into egoistic contstructs and created a physical realm or reality which we call our physical universe. In order to maintain a sense of ego (or separateness from the source), each egoistic construct basically "forgets" what it really is. If we remembered that we are all the same thing we would lose sense of 'self' and become "one" again. So where this leads is that I see the "god" of the Bible as possibly being just one of these egoistic constructions who has forgotten that it is part of the collective. In that way he believes he is the only true God. In Gnostic teaching, this "god" is delusional because he does nto understand that he's not the "only" god but one of a collective whole. His insistance on creating lesser divisions to "worship him" is seen as an abomination to those other egoisitc constructions which realize we are all part of the same source. In other words, no ego construct should demand worship as if they are the only source because we are all part of the same source. Further, the Gnostics essentially taught that the demiurge has "trapped" spiritual energy in physical from and made us believe that we must worship him, etc. In that manner he is seen as "evil' by Gnostics and freeing people to understand their true nature (that we are all part of the same source) is enlightenment.

[Truthster013]

Thanks for weighing in. I'll respond to a few select thoughts:


My question to you is why do you hold on to anything from the bible?

That's a good question. Mostly it's because I have studied it my entire life and therefore I find it impossible for me not to consider new information in light of it. I often see a new piece of information and say, "how does this relate or refute what I studied my whole life". It's more of a curiosity and something to discuss because I know it so well. I no longer hold to the Bible as an authoritative source. I see it now on par with many other books of it's time.



It would just say that the Septuagint (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint)(what you call the bible) and the new testament are very different beasts and if you are buying into new testament anything then you are actually following down the wrong path

To clarify, I personally do not call the Septuagint the Bible. Maybe you meant in a generic sense but I want to clarify that I myself do not call the Septuagint "the Bible'.


Saul of Tarsus who is such a monster that he had to change his name to Paul and add the title himself Apostle to rebrand himself even though he never was tutored by jesus ) and not the telling of the guards(Judas). What was Saul doing when he received his vision? He was persecuting Christians as Pharisee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharisees).

Funny you mention that. I literally wrote a book on that topic. Not a well written book, but yeah, that's a topic I know pretty well. LOL

[sparrow7]

Eastern.Philosophy.is.for.western.People.Truthseeker.
Eastern.Practice.is.for.the.Easterners.

Out.of.practice.you.get.your.phylosophy.and.the.westerners.only.hear.you.talking.about.it.
They.only.see.your.talking.not.practicing.
So.in.reality.they.have.no.idea.what.you.are.talking.about.in."essence.

Watch.what.you.practice.Gnosticism.is.not.Eastern.but.western.practice.
All.the.masons.practice.it.all.the.Rosocrucians.and.so.on.They.are.gnostics.

If.you.want.to.learn.the.truth.you.have.to.become.an.easterner.and.stop.searching.truth.like.a.weste rner
You.have.to.be.like.Clint.East.Wood.He.lived.in.the.west.but.his.name.was.East.Wood.:confused:

Meahhh.what.do.I.know.

Budda.was.cool.he.told.everyone"I.am.not.a.god"just.a.priest.
So.Budda.was.part.of.the.eastern.phylosophy.so.this.hints.it's.about.becoming.rather.a.monk.and.a.mo nk.has.his.practice.

You.will.make.a.fine.Jedi.master.after.washing.the.wooden.floor.30.times.over.an.hour.for.the.next.5 .years.
Practice.makes.good.understanding.
Then.you.will.come.here.to.tell.the.westerners.your.Giberish.that.only.you.really.understand.
For.them..it's.only.text.for.Android.Mechanical.Robots

It's.what.it.is.with.the.written.knowlege.it's.understanding.that.you.get.from.it.resumes.it's.self. to.a.minor.portion.

You.will.never.understand.as.a.truth.seeker.but.as.a.practitioner.
As.the.masons.say.the.truth.is.reserved.for.adepts.and.practitioners.even.they.know.this.because.the y.do.practice.in.their.lodge.The.rest.are.intentionally.lied.and.misguided.(the.initiate.that.is.AKA .the.truth.Seeker)


We.live.in.a.world.controlled.by.them.and.their.masters.with.their.snakes.It's.all.a.sharade.to.make .you.search.for.lies.and.deception.leading.you.in.a.missguided.pathway

[Truthster013]

Eastern.Practice.is.for.the.Easterners. Watch.what.you.practice.Gnosticism.is.not.Eastern.but.western.practice.
....If.you.want.to.learn.the.truth.you.have.to.become.an.easterner.and.stop.searching.truth.like.a.w esterner


For me this is part of the trap people fall into. People tend to become rigid in thinking western or eastern is right and the other is not and that trying to understand both only creates confusion. Rather I would say that understanding both may be crucial as often times the truth lies somewhere between two different sides.

[sparrow7]

East.is.where.the.sun.rises.it's.the.sun.rise.
West.is.where.the.darkness.is.where.the.sun.sets.

So.the.sun.is.a.traveler.like.a.merchant.on.a.road.on.his.voyage.
Maybe.he.won't.set.never.reaching.the.West.and.stay.somewhere.before.the.West.even.in.the.South.

Thing.is.he.go's.to.the.West.he.dies.it's.where.it.sets(dies)and.becomes.like.I.told.you.an.ANDROID. MECHANICAL>ROBOT.that.only.can.grasp.like.other.robots.do.
Things.that.die.must.get.reborn.so.they.can.live.again.but.a.purpose.The.purpose.is.success.since.la st.time.they.failed(going.to.the.western.lands)

You.can.live.in.any.part.of.the.world.and.still.be.in.the.East.
Clint.East.Wood.did.it.so.you.can.too.

So.what.I.tell.you.is.really.symbolic.

[sms]

Truthseeker013, I am wondering if you have read the books, Gnosis, Study and Commentaries on the Esoteric Tradition of Eastern Orthodoxy, by Boris Mouravieff (all three books available for download – HERE (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_autor_mouravieff.htm) and In the Search of the Miraculous (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/search_miraculous.pdf) by Ouspensky, also related to the Christian Esoteric Teaching or the “Eastern Gnosis”?

[Truthster013]

Truthseeker013, I am wondering if you have read the books, Gnosis, Study and Commentaries on the Esoteric Tradition of Eastern Orthodoxy, by Boris Mouravieff (all three books available for download – HERE (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_autor_mouravieff.htm) and In the Search of the Miraculous (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/search_miraculous.pdf) by Ouspensky, also related to the Christian Esoteric Teaching or the “Eastern Gnosis”?

No, I have not but thanks for the links. I of course would prefer to have conversations with people rather than go off to do more study. I've got more books, movies, audio, etc to study than any human can possibly muster. But alas, I'll give this a peek and see if it goes on the stack of reading some day.

In looking closer the title does seem spot on!

[sms]

(...) I of course would prefer to have conversations with people rather than go off to do more study. (...)

The problem is, if the concept expressed through the Eastern gnosis was true, there would not be much point in the discussions and neither in a further study!? Once one understands it, then the one should just apply it, to the best of his understanding.

To my understanding, the western gnostics have described the situation in the field (the “problem”) pretty well, however, there was not much said there about what we could do abut it (the “solution”). The eastern gnostics were talking more about the solution.

I fact, both, the western and the eastern side, agree with that, that this reality is an illusion/maya/stereoma… and today, we can add another term, which is the matrix or the - virtual reality. And, the illusion or the virtual reality can be inhabited only by - virtual entities, which is - us. And, what is virtual, can not be objective, at the same time. However, the eastern gnostics were saying that it was possible to objectify our existence, which would be something akin Pinocchio turning into a real human being?!

So, according to the eastern gnostics, we as personalities in human bodies are lies, living in an illusion, which is also a lie. Lies living in a lie. Now, they were saying that the lies i.e. us, still had a possibility to become the Truth by reaching the True Consciousness, which is not this one, we are currently using for our discussions and studying. While discussing things or studying them, we as false entities are using the false consciousness in the false reality, and by using it, it would be pretty questionable, how far we can get?! Within the false consciousness, it would be much easier to reach enlightenment as a goal of the matrix-spirituality, then to wake up in gnostic terms, i.e. to reach and manifest the True Consciousness. (Also known as ‘christ’, but not Jesus; if your name was Ben, and you somehow were able to reach the ‘christ’ and express it, some people could call you Ben Christ, however, most of details about you will be distorted to confuse the others, so that they could not do the same, and so, jeopardize the integrity of the illusion!?)

Anyway, according to the eastern gnosis, the ‘christ’ would be the only true saviour (but not Jesus) and it was postulated there that all those of us, who still have retained a human essence or the Real I, in ourselves, would still be able to reach the ‘christ’, at least, theoretically. As they understood pretty well many aspects of this illusion, they constructed a (illusory) structure inside it, which they called “The Way”, for the purpose of helping those who are interested, to get out of the… illusion, or to wake up and to start leaving consciously.

http://www.galaksija.com/gno-7b.jpg

As we can see, the Way expressed by the above picture (borrowed from Mouravieff’s book Gnosis I), looks pretty solid, as everything else in the illusion. The only problem is that for the one to approach it, to find it, to step on it and to make a progress along it, the only condition would be an ability to recognise, so called, “B-influences” which are coming from the True reality and to act upon them. So, at the end, we would have here another mistery, i.e. how it would be possible, at all, that something True could be present in the illusion?! As we could only use the false consciousness here, maybe better not to think about an answer to the question?!

But, having the above on (false) mind, one may gain some understanding why Eckhart Tolle (as a non-gnostic source), has defined awakening as a “process of separation between thinking and awareness” (in the book: New Earth).

[greybeard]

SMS
I think your posts are on the mark.
My feeling is that one has to apply one self and search and search for more knowledge till it is realized that the search is contra productive.
The current mystics are inclined to point to the Truth and say how to get there--mainly be still be quiet.
The thing is they also say they did not cause enlightenment--it was a spontaneous awakening.
Eckhart Tolle a classic--no knowledge, no search. Straight from suicidal depression to the peace that passes all understanding.
Chris

[Rich]

If we remembered that we are all the same thing we would lose sense of 'self' and become "one" again.
Hi Truthster013,
we do not lose our Self,
you might be interested in ACIM I feel it explains some Gnostic and Biblical concepts.
It teaches we are an eternal perfect idea in the mind of God.
In the Oneness it is the ego idea that is gone, but what we are remains forever.

[sparrow7]

EmEx.you.do.loose.your.self.by.selling.out.for.knowlege.in.the.process.of.gnostic.fiery.alchemy.
The.self.can.provide.information.in.other.ways.

Gnosis.or.the.Gnostic.teachings.are.all.about.how.to.gain.knowlege.Gnosis.means.knowlege.

It's.obvious.that.Gnostics.come.from.the.templal.nights.
If.you.look.in.the.ancient.world.there.is.no.mention.of.the.Gnostic.religion.

When.the.templars.came.back.they.came.with.knowlege.not.on.things.but.on.how.to.obtain.things.
Templars.found.the.Head.of.the.Goat.Baphomet(Sophia)
The.head.told.them.how.to.practice.alchemy.

In.reality.this.is.just.a.story.to.fool.the.children.In.a.temple.some.say.it.was.the.temple.of.Solom on.they.found.secret.teachings.on.how.to.do.Alchemy.to.gain.knowlege.
The.gnostic.religion.did.not.exist.they.made.it.up.and.called.it.Gnosis.
They.took.the.manuscriptis.that.had.details.on.how.Alchemical.processes.work.inside.the.human.body.a nd.in.the.brain.and.maid.their.own.version.called.Gnosticism

Have.you.wonder.why.Aeon.Sophia.is.no.were.to.be.found.in.any.ancient.cultures.like.Egypt.Babylon.Is rael.Far.east.China.all.the.ancient.world.has.no.mention.of.this.SOPHIA.GODESS.
In.reality.she.is.the.Mother.GOAT.and.her.son.is.BAPHOMET.the.Goat.(the.adopted.son,you.the.practici oner.that.practices.gnostic.teachings)


The.trick.is.for.you.to.become.a.Baphomet.then.you.become."THE>SCAPE>GOAT"and.they.can.sacrifice.you.and.obtain.knowlege.out.of.your.burning.soul.

Baphomet.is.pictured.as.a.burning.furnance.the.burning.goat.
He.is.also.Tatoed.and.hairy.he.is.the.Dirty.Goat.of.the.Temple.of.Sacrifice.The.TEMPLAR.GOAT.
https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--GiRBDnwo--/t_Preview/b_rgb:191919,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1481736219/production/designs/950206_1.jpg


The.gnostic.practice.is.a.lie.it.will.lead.to.termination.of.your.self.your.soul.your.being.

Edit:
I.forgot.to.add.he.has.tits.he.is.half.female.because.his.mother.is.inside.of.him(Sophia)

[sparrow7]

Where.is.the.Gnostic.practice.in.the.ancient.world,and.Sophia.where.is.she.

If.they.existed.is.Sophia.existed.then.she.should.be.in.the.Ancient.world.culture.but.she.is.not.

Where.is.she?

You.see.she.is.not.she.is.made.up.by.the.templars.and.this.religion.to.cover.the.truth.

It's.a.bull****.story.

[sparrow7]

Who.invented.the.Gnostic.Religion.

Okay.Jesus.invented.Christianity
The.Jews.invented.Judaism
Egyptians.invented.the.Egyptian.religion
Babylonians.invented.the.Talmud.

Now...
Why.invented.Gnosticism.
Can.anyone.tell.me.what.culture....
I.think.we.can.be.sure.it's.a.western.culture.of.secret.order.since.it.does.not.appear.in.the.Ancien t.Religions.of.the.World.

We.can.be.sure.it.is.invented.after.the.Collapse.of.the.Roman.Empire.
It's.the.Templars.who.invented.it.

[Truthster013]

sms, thank you!!! That was an amazing write up and you are nearly exactly the type of person I'm looking to chat with. I am reading this before going to work so don't have time quite yet to digest it and get into it further but if you would have time to discuss with me further I would REALLY be interested in starting a private dialogue with you. I know you basically said "what's the point" of talking about it but I really would enjoy talking about it with you.

[Truthster013]

....we are an eternal perfect idea in the mind of God.
In the Oneness it is the ego idea that is gone, but what we are remains forever.

The wording you are using above is difficult for me currently. I no longer personally resonate with phrases like "eternal perfect idea" which seems to suggest that "god" (which I think is a really misunderstood word) had this "perfect" idea and we just screwed it up. That logic seems wholy flawed to me and thus attributing to "god" that there is a "perfect" plan is alien to me. I am more inclined to believe that the source has no morality, good or bad, and that all things emanate from it. Western philosophy believes a perfect God created an imperfect creation but laid out a perfect plan of redemption. Eastern philosophy as I see it basically says all things like good and evil are purely subjective. There is no good or evil, there just IS. There is no perfect and imperfect, there just IS. At the moment that's more where I see things. Maybe your words didn't even mean all this fluff I'm adding and for that I'm sorry.

[Flash]

Where.is.the.Gnostic.practice.in.the.ancient.world,and.Sophia.where.is.she.

If.they.existed.is.Sophia.existed.then.she.should.be.in.the.Ancient.world.culture.but.she.is.not.

Where.is.she?

You.see.she.is.not.she.is.made.up.by.the.templars.and.this.religion.to.cover.the.truth.

It's.a.bull****.story.

Sparrow, I have a real but real bad time reading you with those dots between each word.

I am not English speaking, and to me when words are tied together in whichever way, I cannot make sense of what is what anymore.
Plus sometimes you have dots and dots - starting a new phrase, i do not know where it starts and ends up.

I will refer you to the grammar thread, but please help me not to make this reading so tough. Please, write in a regular manner.

Unless you are dictating and the algorithm places the dots. In this case could it be programmed to put spacing instead? And sometimes there is spacing in the middle of a word, like sta y - I cannot follow.

[Ernie Nemeth]

This is absolutely unacceptable punctuation.
L eT ' S a.l.l. do. Thi.s. a.nd. s.ee. h.ow. lon.g people k.ee.p com.ing.here. to R.ea.d thin.g.s
Rediculous. But I guess that's the point right. Your different and cool

[Truthster013]

This is absolutely unacceptable punctuation.
L eT ' S a.l.l. do. Thi.s. a.nd. s.ee. h.ow. lon.g people k.ee.p com.ing.here. to R.ea.d thin.g.s
Rediculous. But I guess that's the point right. Your different and cool

I think sparrow indicated his space bar was broken on his phone or tablet or whatever and that's why he has to use periods. But like you, I find it really difficult to follow with that type of punctuation. Add to that spaces in the middle of words and sometimes broken or fragmentary thoughts I have to go back and read and reread and try and think about it several ways to see if maybe I'm reading it wrong and then I concluded I can't continue to have a discourse with this format because I'll lose my mind the first time I respond to something at length and find out I simply didn't understand the original point because a period was in the wrong place or a space in the wrong place misled me to think the poster meant one thing when he meant another.

[Hervé]

A possible temporary solution would be for sparrow7 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?30489-sparrow7) to first type posts with a word processor which has a "Find and Replace" feature and replace all the dots with a blank space lifted/copied from screen keyboard, proof read the text to add normal punctuation and only then post the text in the thread... which is also a way to edit already posted material to make them more digestible...

[Ernie Nemeth]

The good explanation would be not having to explain and patiently editing each post or waiting until new keyboard arrives.

[shaberon]

Here's a main difference: Gnosticism was a pile of dust until revived by G. R. S. Mead around 1900. Eastern traditions are unbroken since prehistoric times.

I am not sure what to say about Gnosticism being Christian in any way. It could be Ophite or Sethian or something like that. It exists in two continuous, closed societies, the Druze and the Mandeans. This last name means "Gnostic" in their own Syrian dialect and they are definitely not Christian and certainly not Jewish. Those are the real authorities, and you can't get much from them, and you definitely can't join them.

The Western system as a whole is a cheap copy of the Eastern one, and here, west means degraded Zoroastrianism and Manicheanism which spread west from across Persia. The Eastern system is basically the sister of the original Zoroastrianism, as were the Greek and Norse pagans, etc. Because it is still intact, I can use it to explain, for instance, the strongly related inner meanings of historical mysteries at the Ellora caves, the forbidden city of Peiping, China, and the ruins of Borodpur, Java, through the trans-Himalayan communities that still stand, and even the roof of an ordinary house in Lithuania.

That is why it seems to me the Eastern is the complete, original system, whereas most everything in the West can be shown to be incomplete, diluted, and tweaked, and comparatively of little value, except for the sort of historical curiosity of patching the fragments.

That being said, the way I do it has an astounding superficial resemblance to Catholicism. Not the same under the hood.

I believe that at least since the time of Asoka sending Buddhist missionaries as far as Greece and possibly Ireland, there have been somewhat perpetual attempts to pack Eastern influence into a Western or Christian garb, and this continued through well known figures such as Eliphas Levi and Grand Master Pinto. But it's not being done that way any more. It's openly Eastern. We are all over Europe and the U. S. Just look.

If anyone is worried about the devil, we can't really use you. This is a call for Lions.

I am sure it is possible to use the Kabbala to derive some benefit, but I don't think it compares to the Eastern system which I would broadly call Raja Yoga, including all Indian Aryan (Samkhya, Vedic, Vedantic) lines and Buddhist (Zen, etc.). These still of course have philosophical differences, but all remain complete and effective ways of practice. It's not a religion. May seem that way and be forced to use some of the same language, but it's not.

[Truthster013]

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I think the below indicates that people aren't really understanding what I'm after and that's not your fault it's mine. However, using your response to me permits me to clarify what I'm after a little and the more we can clarify perhaps the closer I can get to conveying what I'm looking for. Again, this is NO attack on you when I respond. I acknowledge the fault is on my part for not making clear what I'm looking for. I'm only using some quotes below to clarify MY misunderstood position a little better:


Here's a main difference: Gnosticism was a pile of dust until revived by G. R. S. Mead around 1900. Eastern traditions are unbroken since prehistoric times.

Several people have commented by trying to explain where Gnosticism came from, who invited it, and/or whether it's Christian or not. I need to clarify that I do not care really about any of that per se. I'm not interested in the history of Gnosticsm or who invited it. For the most part I can care less. Rather I'm looking for a philosophical discussion about the nature of reality and perhaps using Gnostic, Christian and eastern philosophy as a possible way to have that discussion. The focus is on the question "what are we and what is enlightenment" and possibly using Gnostic and Eastern philosophy as some common language base because I am familiar with it and find that it comes close to explaining it how I'm currently seeing it.


It exists in two continuous, closed societies....they are definitely not Christian and certainly not Jewish. Those are the real authorities, and you can't get much from them, and you definitely can't join them.

I also want to be clear that I'm not looking to join anything or to find the original "masters" or "teachers" of any school of thought and go be taught by them. I'm long done with letting someone set themselves up as my teacher and me their student. I'm not interested in a formal education, rather in sharing ideas with others and learning from each other.



That is why it seems to me the Eastern is the complete, original system, whereas most everything in the West can be shown to be incomplete, diluted, and tweaked, and comparatively of little value, except for the sort of historical curiosity of patching the fragments.

Please do not take offense but for me stating eastern is a "complete original system" and then knocking the west as "incomplete,diluted,and of little value" suggest to me that you are maybe a little closed off. Maybe I'm totally wrong because I don't know you personally so again, do not take offense. But anytime one labels one thing as truth and another as false, it suggest to me a closed loop. Certainly there is something of value in western thought especially if your target audience grew up in western thought.

[Rich]

....we are an eternal perfect idea in the mind of God.
In the Oneness it is the ego idea that is gone, but what we are remains forever.

The wording you are using above is difficult for me currently. I no longer personally resonate with phrases like "eternal perfect idea" which seems to suggest that "god" (which I think is a really misunderstood word) had this "perfect" idea and we just screwed it up. That logic seems wholy flawed to me and thus attributing to "god" that there is a "perfect" plan is alien to me. I am more inclined to believe that the source has no morality, good or bad, and that all things emanate from it. Western philosophy believes a perfect God created an imperfect creation but laid out a perfect plan of redemption. Eastern philosophy as I see it basically says all things like good and evil are purely subjective. There is no good or evil, there just IS. There is no perfect and imperfect, there just IS. At the moment that's more where I see things. Maybe your words didn't even mean all this fluff I'm adding and for that I'm sorry.

Truthster, the Course teaches that we cannot change what we are, because that has been established by God, this illusion however is the dream or concept that we can do so.

Since there is only God or Source morality has no basis in Reality.

[Truthster013]

Truthster, the Course teaches that we cannot change what we are, because that has been established by God, this illusion however is the dream or concept that we can do so.
Since there is only God or Source morality has no basis in Reality.

Cool, this is getting closer to the type of discussion I'm wanting however, I'm not sure what you mean by the "courses teaches". I'm not interested in taking a course or being taught per se. I want to have a conversation with a down to earth person. So rather than refer me to what someone else teaches, I'm asking what YOU believe. To clarify your position therefore, do YOU believe then that what we are as conscious beings has already been determined by some other consciousness being and that the illusion is that we have a choice in what we do or become because in reality we will do or become whatever this other source has determined for us already?

[enigma3]

The Gnostics claimed that the body is impure. Eastern teachings know better. Gnosticism was an offshoot of Christianity. The Cathars adopted a few gnostic teachings. The Roman Catholic church, as was its usual M.O., attacked the gnostic faith attempting to destroy it. That might well have been a reason for burning the library at Alexandria as the gnostics had a big hand in assembling the library. As usual, they did a pretty good job. There are some profound teachings in the gnostic texts but they seem to get lost in their incessant belief that the body, and by extention all dualistic life, is impure.

One of the best caches of gnostic material comes from the Nag Hammadi scrolls. Interesting that these same gnostics included so many scrolls on Archons in the Nag Hammadi texts.

I would not relegate the Gospel of Thomas to the ignore heap just because there are so many differing opinions on it. Rather, investigate yourself and contemplate what is read. That gospel contains only the sayings of Jesus. It has been called an initiatory writing and I agree. If possible I would be interested in seeking out the secret teachings of Jesus, told only to his disciples. This gospel comes closest to that. Some of the sayings in the Gospel of Thomas remind me of the writings of Rumi or Milarepa.

[Rich]

Truthster, the Course teaches that we cannot change what we are, because that has been established by God, this illusion however is the dream or concept that we can do so.
Since there is only God or Source morality has no basis in Reality.

Cool, this is getting closer to the type of discussion I'm wanting however, I'm not sure what you mean by the "courses teaches". I'm not interested in taking a course or being taught per se. I want to have a conversation with a down to earth person. So rather than refer me to what someone else teaches, I'm asking what YOU believe. To clarify your position therefore, do YOU believe then that what we are as conscious beings has already been determined by some other consciousness being and that the illusion is that we have a choice in what we do or become because in reality we will do or become whatever this other source has determined for us already?
The illusion is that we can create ourselves. But God has already created us, therefore all the ego activity does not change a thing about what we are.
This is what ACIM teaches, we are already one with God and already at home, this illusion is but a bad dream that does not exist.

[Truthster013]

The illusion is that we can create ourselves. But God has already created us, therefore all the ego activity does not change a thing about what we are.
This is what ACIM teaches, we are already one with God and already at home, this illusion is but a bad dream that does not exist.

Thanks. However, I want to clarify if these are your beliefs you are stating.

[Rich]

Yes, they are, because I follow the teaching of ACIM. :)

[Truthster013]

Yes, they are, because I follow the teaching of ACIM. :)

That's fair. I will consider this before continuing. Another way of interpreting what you are saying is that I believe whatever ACIM says so if you want to know what I believe, just go read their stuff. If that's the case we can cease discourse and I will consider if I want to know ACIM's thoughts. I understand this may sound harsh but I've been involved with too many people who refer me to someone else about what they believe. If you believe it, you should be able to articulate it without sending me to someone else. If you cannot, then I will bypass the middle man and go find out what he believes. :)

[Flash]

Yes, they are, because I follow the teaching of ACIM. :)

That's fair. I will consider this before continuing. Another way of interpreting what you are saying is that I believe whatever ACIM says so if you want to know what I believe, just go read their stuff. If that's the case we can cease discourse and I will consider if I want to know ACIM's thoughts. I understand this may sound harsh but I've been involved with too many people who refer me to someone else about what they believe. If you believe it, you should be able to articulate it without sending me to someone else. If you cannot, then I will bypass the middle man and go find out what he believes. :)

Yes this is harsh, but I do think it is just (meaning right).

Maybe you could change your title because as it is, it invite us to private study, which could easily mean showing what we are actually studying and sharing.

If you want us to discuss our most inner thoughts, feelings, knowings, I would suggest you put it in the title and explain clearly in a next post as well as in your first post.

That would be really helpful in my idea, and less confusing.

But hey, this is your thread, I may suggest, but you decide.

[Truthster013]

Maybe you could change your title because as it is, it invite us to private study, which could easily mean showing what we are actually studying and sharing.

If you want us to discuss our most inner thoughts, feelings, knowings, I would suggest you put it in the title and explain clearly in a next post as well as in your first post.

That would be really helpful in my idea, and less confusing.

Thanks. You may be right. I didn't think the private study thing meant what it obviously is being taken to mean. I will consider how best to fix this.

EDIT: I think I corrected the original post to make my intentions more clearly stated. Hope this helps.

[sparrow7]

Where.is.the.Gnostic.practice.in.the.ancient.world,and.Sophia.where.is.she.

If.they.existed.is.Sophia.existed.then.she.should.be.in.the.Ancient.world.culture.but.she.is.not.

Where.is.she?

You.see.she.is.not.she.is.made.up.by.the.templars.and.this.religion.to.cover.the.truth.

It's.a.bull****.story.

Sparrow, I have a real but real bad time reading you with those dots between each word.

I am not English speaking, and to me when words are tied together in whichever way, I cannot make sense of what is what anymore.
Plus sometimes you have dots and dots - starting a new phrase, i do not know where it starts and ends up.

I will refer you to the grammar thread, but please help me not to make this reading so tough. Please, write in a regular manner.

Unless you are dictating and the algorithm places the dots. In this case could it be programmed to put spacing instead? And sometimes there is spacing in the middle of a word, like sta y - I cannot follow.

Okay flash is this better.
I.have.used.my.mental.abilities.to.use.spaces.instead.of.dots.
My.brain.connected.to.the.computer.to.add.spaces.with.my.mental.projection.called.on.screen.keyboard .
The.on.screen.keyboard.is.not.real.it's.virtual.part.of.the.mind.

I.think.I.can.do.it.again.let's.see

Here it is, I have done it again with my mental projection,but it's hard.i am old fashion real keyboard guy

my real keyboard has a defect , the unreal one does not, it's unreal.

Ohhh.no.my.mental.projection.is.breaking.up.I'm.on.dots.again.
But.if.you.want.to.talk.real.I'll.make.a.real.effort.and.use.the.mental.one.again.tho.I.am.annoyed.b y.it

[Flash]

Where.is.the.Gnostic.practice.in.the.ancient.world,and.Sophia.where.is.she.

If.they.existed.is.Sophia.existed.then.she.should.be.in.the.Ancient.world.culture.but.she.is.not.

Where.is.she?

You.see.she.is.not.she.is.made.up.by.the.templars.and.this.religion.to.cover.the.truth.

It's.a.bull****.story.

Sparrow, I have a real but real bad time reading you with those dots between each word.

I am not English speaking, and to me when words are tied together in whichever way, I cannot make sense of what is what anymore.
Plus sometimes you have dots and dots - starting a new phrase, i do not know where it starts and ends up.

I will refer you to the grammar thread, but please help me not to make this reading so tough. Please, write in a regular manner.

Unless you are dictating and the algorithm places the dots. In this case could it be programmed to put spacing instead? And sometimes there is spacing in the middle of a word, like sta y - I cannot follow.

Okay flash is this better.
I.have.used.my.mental.abilities.to.use.spaces.instead.of.dots.
My.brain.connected.to.the.computer.to.add.spaces.with.my.mental.projection.called.on.screen.keyboard .
The.on.screen.keyboard.is.not.real.it's.virtual.part.of.the.mind.

I.think.I.can.do.it.again.let's.see

Here it is, I have done it again with my mental projection,but it's hard.i am old fashion real keyboard guy

my real keyboard has a defect , the unreal one does not, it's unreal.

Ohhh.no.my.mental.projection.is.breaking.up.I'm.on.dots.again.
But.if.you.want.to.talk.real.I'll.make.a.real.effort.and.use.the.mental.one.again.tho.I.am.annoyed.b y.it

lolllll thank you for the phrases in the middle of your that last post. Make sure you tune up your mental projection, with exercise, it will come flawlessly. lol

[sparrow7]

A possible temporary solution would be for sparrow7 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?30489-sparrow7) to first type posts with a word processor which has a "Find and Replace" feature and replace all the dots with a blank space lifted/copied from screen keyboard, proof read the text to add normal punctuation and only then post the text in the thread... which is also a way to edit already posted material to make them more digestible...

Neah.I'll.just.get.a.new.keyboard.
I'll.find.one.for.5.dollars.for.now.before.I.get.my.magic.keyboard.

Mental.projection.coming.online.....on-screen.keyboard.Activated.
now i'm virtual again

Now.you're.not.going.to.be.the.Natzi.Grammar.Police.are.you.

[Bubu]

The focus is on the question "what are we and what is enlightenment" .

We are Gods individual but diverse experience. So basically God is experiencing and creating in a 3D space trough you me and every one. Still we dont need to ascend in higher consciousness (level of experience and creation) if we dont want to but we can. We are not in a kind of school to learn and graduate. We dont need salvation because we are not in danger. We simply are experiences and a way of God procreating and expanding. So chill out and have fun.

[sparrow7]

Where.is.the.Gnostic.practice.in.the.ancient.world,and.Sophia.where.is.she.

If.they.existed.is.Sophia.existed.then.she.should.be.in.the.Ancient.world.culture.but.she.is.not.

Where.is.she?

You.see.she.is.not.she.is.made.up.by.the.templars.and.this.religion.to.cover.the.truth.

It's.a.bull****.story.

Sparrow, I have a real but real bad time reading you with those dots between each word.

I am not English speaking, and to me when words are tied together in whichever way, I cannot make sense of what is what anymore.
Plus sometimes you have dots and dots - starting a new phrase, i do not know where it starts and ends up.

I will refer you to the grammar thread, but please help me not to make this reading so tough. Please, write in a regular manner.

Unless you are dictating and the algorithm places the dots. In this case could it be programmed to put spacing instead? And sometimes there is spacing in the middle of a word, like sta y - I cannot follow.

Okay flash is this better.
I.have.used.my.mental.abilities.to.use.spaces.instead.of.dots.
My.brain.connected.to.the.computer.to.add.spaces.with.my.mental.projection.called.on.screen.keyboard .
The.on.screen.keyboard.is.not.real.it's.virtual.part.of.the.mind.

I.think.I.can.do.it.again.let's.see

Here it is, I have done it again with my mental projection,but it's hard.i am old fashion real keyboard guy

my real keyboard has a defect , the unreal one does not, it's unreal.

Ohhh.no.my.mental.projection.is.breaking.up.I'm.on.dots.again.
But.if.you.want.to.talk.real.I'll.make.a.real.effort.and.use.the.mental.one.again.tho.I.am.annoyed.b y.it

lolllll thank you for the phrases in the middle of your that last post. Make sure you tune up your mental projection, with exercise, it will come flawlessly. lol

You.have.no.idea.how.annoying.the.on.screen.keyboard.is.to.me

[sparrow7]

Several people have commented by trying to explain where Gnosticism came from, who invited it, and/or whether it's Christian or not. I need to clarify that I do not care really about any of that per se. I'm not interested in the history of Gnosticsm or who invited it. For the most part I can care less. Rather I'm looking for a philosophical discussion about the nature of reality and perhaps using Gnostic, Christian and eastern philosophy as a possible way to have that discussion. The focus is on the question "what are we and what is enlightenment" and possibly using Gnostic and Eastern philosophy as some common language base because I am familiar with it and find that it comes close to explaining it how I'm currently seeing it.

You.should.track.it's.origin.because.only.then.you.can.be.sure.
if.it's.a.positive.aspect.to.elaborate.on.

From.what.I.know.Sophia.is.part.of.the.Bizantine.empire.culture.
She.was.a.saint.who.took.care.of.orphan.children.that.had.no.parents.
She.was.a.mother.saint.not.a.goddess,nor.an.AEON.

You.should.ask.your.self.who.invented.the.Gnostic.Religion.
Who.is.it?

If.you.know.you.should.share.it.with.us.I.did.search.before.in.time.
I.could.not.come.up.with.anything.older.
Not.even.back.to.the.end.of.the.Roman.Empire.times.

Where.did.they.get.Sophia.she.has.to.originate.from.some.older.culture.right.

You.see.how.it.does.not.make.sense.

[Truthster013]

We are Gods individual but diverse experience. So basically God is experiencing and creating in a 3D space trough you me and every one. Still we dont need to ascend in higher consciousness (level of experience and creation) if we dont want to but we can. We are not in a kind of school to learn and graduate. We dont need salvation because we are not in danger. We simply are experiences and a way of God procreating and expanding. So chill out and have fun.

I think what you stated is very close to how I see it.

[OopsWrongPlanet?]

HI Truthster, and thanks for starting this thread. There is something in your earnest investigation which attracts me, and I would like to weigh in. I have tried to read most of the posts so far, some cursorily (too long and not enough pictures ;) ), but please excuse me if my first post on this is ham-fisted.

Decades ago I had a christian experience (complete with life-changing visions), which for a couple of decades coloured my experience and view of reality. This was followed by a more broad-minded, maybe eastern-based understanding (meditation etc). More recently, in the last decade - including some sort of 'non-dual awakening', for want of a better term - explorations have taken me to enquiring from the point of view solely of what can be observed HERE and NOW, what some would call 'direct experience'.

A while back you wrote:-


I did not mean to imply in any way that I'm desiring to find a religion to follow or practice. I have no need to follow a religion or lock myself into someone else's belief system. I'm simply looking to discuss the philosophical aspects of various religious traditions and ask questions as to "did they have this right?" or "were they close when they said....?" In other words, I don't want to be dogmatic and defend any religious system as having the 'truth'. Rather, I'm asking to examine some of these models and discuss what parts might be correct or not correct and what that means for a person who maybe is seeking enlightenment and not to belong to a "church" or "religion".

My question would be something like this: if we were to roll back the scenery - say a field or the sky - would we find the truth somehow written down underneath, saying 'this is how everything really is'...? Is there somewhere, anywhere, a blueprint for what is going on, or for what should be going on, 'this is better', 'that is right, wrong' , 'this is the truth'? Are any teachings, whether from religions or ideologies, or channeling, ever anything more than dogma? If so, then how so?

I would like to point to a magical, heart-tugging and disarmingly simple French film called 'Ponette'. The first instalment can be found here (with English subtitles for non-French speakers.):-

ekHiMIH98vE

In it 4-year old Ponette's mother dies suddenly, and all Ponette longs for is to find her mother. If she can find God he will tell her how to find her. The perhaps relevant part to this discussion is where she meets a young friend called Ada, who is adamant that she knows God personally, knows how to find him, and she tells Ponette a series of tests she must do in order to access Him (thus her mother also). With jaw-dropping simplicity the film gives us an allegory of religion and dogma and their hold over people, contrasted with simple 'gnosis'.

I hope you enjoy, and that this can add something to the discussion on this subject.

x

Mark

[sms]

There was an “unknown teaching”, as called by Ouspensky in his book the Fourth Way, which “fragments” are still available today. The eastern gnostics called it The Doctrine or Tradition. Some say that it originated from ‘sufism’, however, as it originated long before Christianity and Islam, in order to survive together with those who carried it, it had to get heavily contaminated by religious and other content. (The teaching was clearly “heretic” from the religious point of view and we know what was done to the heretics, throughout the history). After it went through the ages where Christianity and islam have reigned, the original teaching was aligned to Christianity as some sort of gnosticism and to Islam as sufism. Anyway, the teaching was heavily distorted, however, they managed to smuggle the “fine red thread”, through, in an (almost) unrecognizable condition.

The fine red thread can not be discerned by an intellectual analysis. The noise to signal ratio is too high, or simply, there is too much noise in order to discern the signal. The second problem is – the intellect is not enough to gain an understanding.
What is the fine red thread saying?

Well, it is saying something what hardly anybody of us wants to hear and know. It is saying that:

1. the humanity is living in an illusion/maya/stereoma…

2. in this “demiurgic domain”, the humanity has been manipulated by an ‘archontic’, ‘inorganic’, ‘demiurgic’ or simply, a ‘non-human-entity’, which has all the features of what we would call today an AI.

3. we are all connected to it; it regulates and manipulates our perception and therefore, our state of mind; and therefore, our thinking; and therefore, our behaviour.

4. our personalities (including mine, writing this and yours, reading this) are artificial constructs. (Like a software subject to programming and reprogramming in charge of the ‘physical’ body).

5. all artificial constructs share the false or artificial consciousness originating from the source, i.e. the AI. (That would mean all three levels of that consciousness, as the waking consciousness, subconsciousness and the collective unconscious).

6. The True Consciousness exists (called the “Consciousness of the Absolute”, “christ”, the First Source etc.) and it could be reached and manifested.

7. there are two ‘types’ of beings inhabiting the illusion: ‘anthropoids’, meaning the people without human essence or the Real I, (that would be the “sons of god/AI” or “pinocchios-by-default”) and adamic people (“sons of man” or “pinocchios” which have a potential to become human beings) i.e. those who still have the Real I, but firmly identified with their personalities on 24/7 basis, they are unaware of it so, they would think and behave in a more or less the same manner as anthropoids. Therefore, in this reality, there are no real human beings, only us, programmed to identify ourselves with them.

8. the false reality is based on a false dualism, where the goodness and badness, the light and the dark… comes form the same source and has been controlled by the same source i.e. the AI.

9. The only real ‘thing’ in the illusion would be the influences which are coming from one’s real part of the being, the Real I, which is connected to the True Consciousness. (Of course, in the case of adamic people.) They are called ‘influences’, because they can not be seen or visualized, they can not be palpated or heard. They can not be our thoughts, because, the source of our thoughts would be the artificial or false consciousness. Those influences can only be felt, as an ‘inner knowing’, under certain circumstances.

10. The true salvation would only be possible only if a personality manages to establish a connection with the Real Consciousness through the Real I, with which it has been associated in this life, and to start living in accordance with that consciousness.

11. …etc… (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91237-Just-another-wake-up-call--)

**

If the above (partial) interpretation of the “fine red thread” contained in the gnosis would be correct, then we still can gain some understanding why the gnosticism can not be productively discussed. The recipients of the teaching would be a nice mixture of adamic people and anthropoids. Both groups operating by using false (controlled) consciousness, like biochemical robots. Hardly anybody would be able to recognize the “fine red thread”; everybody will see the gnostic teaching differently and therefore, have different interpretations or comments in a case the issue is discussed on a forum. Generally speaking, the discussion will be controlled by the source in a way that people pay attention to anything else, than to the fragments of the “fine red thread”, so the true content would not be discussed. And, the Truth can not be welcomed among those who are false.

Of course, if so, the next question would be – to whom the message was sent then, if we as personalities in human bodies, with our names and surnames, nick names and user names, are unable or unwilling to recognize and understand it?

…

[Flash]

There was an “unknown teaching”, as called by Ouspensky in his book the Fourth Way, which “fragments” are still available today. The eastern gnostics called it The Doctrine or Tradition. Some say that it originated from ‘sufism’, however, as it originated long before Christianity and Islam, in order to survive together with those who carried it, it had to get heavily contaminated by religious and other content. (The teaching was clearly “heretic” from the religious point of view and we know what was done to the heretics, throughout the history). After it went through the ages where Christianity and islam have reigned, the original teaching was aligned to Christianity as some sort of gnosticism and to Islam as sufism. Anyway, the teaching was heavily distorted, however, they managed to smuggle the “fine red thread”, through, in an (almost) unrecognizable condition.

The fine red thread can not be discerned by an intellectual analysis. The noise to signal ratio is too high, or simply, there is too much noise in order to discern the signal. The second problem is – the intellect is not enough to gain an understanding.
What is the fine red thread saying?

Well, it is saying something what hardly anybody of us wants to hear and know. It is saying that:

1. the humanity is living in an illusion/maya/stereoma…

2. in this “demiurgic domain”, the humanity has been manipulated by an ‘archontic’, ‘inorganic’, ‘demiurgic’ or simply, a ‘non-human-entity’, which has all the features of what we would call today an AI.

3. we are all connected to it; it regulates and manipulates our perception and therefore, our state of mind; and therefore, our thinking; and therefore, our behaviour.

4. our personalities (including mine, writing this and yours, reading this) are artificial constructs. (Like a software subject to programming and reprogramming in charge of the ‘physical’ body).

5. all artificial constructs share the false or artificial consciousness originating from the source, i.e. the AI. (That would mean all three levels of that consciousness, as the waking consciousness, subconsciousness and the collective unconscious).

6. The True Consciousness exists (called the “Consciousness of the Absolute”, “christ”, the First Source etc.) and it could be reached and manifested.

7. there are two ‘types’ of beings inhabiting the illusion: ‘anthropoids’, meaning the people without human essence or the Real I, (that would be the “sons of god/AI” or “pinocchios-by-default”) and adamic people (“sons of man” or “pinocchios” which have a potential to become human beings) i.e. those who still have the Real I, but firmly identified with their personalities on 24/7 basis, they are unaware of it so, they would think and behave in a more or less the same manner as anthropoids. Therefore, in this reality, there are no real human beings, only us, programmed to identify ourselves with them.

8. the false reality is based on a false dualism, where the goodness and badness, the light and the dark… comes form the same source and has been controlled by the same source i.e. the AI.

9. The only real ‘thing’ in the illusion would be the influences which are coming from one’s real part of the being, the Real I, which is connected to the True Consciousness. (Of course, in the case of adamic people.) They are called ‘influences’, because they can not be seen or visualized, they can not be palpated or heard. They can not be our thoughts, because, the source of our thoughts would be the artificial or false consciousness. Those influences can only be felt, as an ‘inner knowing’, under certain circumstances.

10. The true salvation would only be possible only if a personality manages to establish a connection with the Real Consciousness through the Real I, with which it has been associated in this life, and to start living in accordance with that consciousness.

11. …etc… (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91237-Just-another-wake-up-call--)

**

If the above (partial) interpretation of the “fine red thread” contained in the gnosis would be correct, then we still can gain some understanding why the gnosticism can not be productively discussed. The recipients of the teaching would be a nice mixture of adamic people and anthropoids. Both groups operating by using false (controlled) consciousness, like biochemical robots. Hardly anybody would be able to recognize the “fine red thread”; everybody will see the gnostic teaching differently and therefore, have different interpretations or comments in a case the issue is discussed on a forum. Generally speaking, the discussion will be controlled by the source in a way that people pay attention to anything else, than to the fragments of the “fine red thread”, so the true content would not be discussed. And, the Truth can not be welcomed among those who are false.

Of course, if so, the next question would be – to whom the message was sent then, if we as personalities in human bodies, with our names and surnames, nick names and user names, are unable or unwilling to recognize and understand it?

…

This is such a good resume, it hits to the core of the topic and to the core of spirituality as well. Wasn't Ouspensky working with Gurdjieff for a while? In fact, it is pretty much a resume of what has been told on this forum forever.

A crazy AI leading a split people. The anthropoids being the back drop people as would have said Dolores Cannon.

I would very much like to see the point 11... etc. lol

Got to get my old Ouspensky books out of their boxes. I was very young when I read some of his books, and must say I pretty much did not understand. It is made utterly clear today with your resume.

[Bubu]

There was an “unknown teaching”, as called by Ouspensky in his book the Fourth Way, which “fragments” are still available today. The eastern gnostics called it The Doctrine or Tradition. Some say that it originated from ‘sufism’, however, as it originated long before Christianity and Islam, in order to survive together with those who carried it, it had to get heavily contaminated by religious and other content. (The teaching was clearly “heretic” from the religious point of view and we know what was done to the heretics, throughout the history). After it went through the ages where Christianity and islam have reigned, the original teaching was aligned to Christianity as some sort of gnosticism and to Islam as sufism. Anyway, the teaching was heavily distorted, however, they managed to smuggle the “fine red thread”, through, in an (almost) unrecognizable condition.

The fine red thread can not be discerned by an intellectual analysis. The noise to signal ratio is too high, or simply, there is too much noise in order to discern the signal. The second problem is – the intellect is not enough to gain an understanding.
What is the fine red thread saying?

Well, it is saying something what hardly anybody of us wants to hear and know. It is saying that:

1. the humanity is living in an illusion/maya/stereoma…

2. in this “demiurgic domain”, the humanity has been manipulated by an ‘archontic’, ‘inorganic’, ‘demiurgic’ or simply, a ‘non-human-entity’, which has all the features of what we would call today an AI.

3. we are all connected to it; it regulates and manipulates our perception and therefore, our state of mind; and therefore, our thinking; and therefore, our behaviour.

4. our personalities (including mine, writing this and yours, reading this) are artificial constructs. (Like a software subject to programming and reprogramming in charge of the ‘physical’ body).

5. all artificial constructs share the false or artificial consciousness originating from the source, i.e. the AI. (That would mean all three levels of that consciousness, as the waking consciousness, subconsciousness and the collective unconscious).

6. The True Consciousness exists (called the “Consciousness of the Absolute”, “christ”, the First Source etc.) and it could be reached and manifested.

7. there are two ‘types’ of beings inhabiting the illusion: ‘anthropoids’, meaning the people without human essence or the Real I, (that would be the “sons of god/AI” or “pinocchios-by-default”) and adamic people (“sons of man” or “pinocchios” which have a potential to become human beings) i.e. those who still have the Real I, but firmly identified with their personalities on 24/7 basis, they are unaware of it so, they would think and behave in a more or less the same manner as anthropoids. Therefore, in this reality, there are no real human beings, only us, programmed to identify ourselves with them.

8. the false reality is based on a false dualism, where the goodness and badness, the light and the dark… comes form the same source and has been controlled by the same source i.e. the AI.

9. The only real ‘thing’ in the illusion would be the influences which are coming from one’s real part of the being, the Real I, which is connected to the True Consciousness. (Of course, in the case of adamic people.) They are called ‘influences’, because they can not be seen or visualized, they can not be palpated or heard. They can not be our thoughts, because, the source of our thoughts would be the artificial or false consciousness. Those influences can only be felt, as an ‘inner knowing’, under certain circumstances.

10. The true salvation would only be possible only if a personality manages to establish a connection with the Real Consciousness through the Real I, with which it has been associated in this life, and to start living in accordance with that consciousness.

11. …etc… (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91237-Just-another-wake-up-call--)

**

If the above (partial) interpretation of the “fine red thread” contained in the gnosis would be correct, then we still can gain some understanding why the gnosticism can not be productively discussed. The recipients of the teaching would be a nice mixture of adamic people and anthropoids. Both groups operating by using false (controlled) consciousness, like biochemical robots. Hardly anybody would be able to recognize the “fine red thread”; everybody will see the gnostic teaching differently and therefore, have different interpretations or comments in a case the issue is discussed on a forum. Generally speaking, the discussion will be controlled by the source in a way that people pay attention to anything else, than to the fragments of the “fine red thread”, so the true content would not be discussed. And, the Truth can not be welcomed among those who are false.

Of course, if so, the next question would be – to whom the message was sent then, if we as personalities in human bodies, with our names and surnames, nick names and user names, are unable or unwilling to recognize and understand it?

…

I will go for "truth is self explanatory". Any complication is a deception waiting to be revealed. happens all the time.

[Praxis]

Thanks for weighing in. I'll respond to a few select thoughts:


My question to you is why do you hold on to anything from the bible?

That's a good question. Mostly it's because I have studied it my entire life and therefore I find it impossible for me not to consider new information in light of it. I often see a new piece of information and say, "how does this relate or refute what I studied my whole life". It's more of a curiosity and something to discuss because I know it so well. I no longer hold to the Bible as an authoritative source. I see it now on par with many other books of it's time.



It would just say that the Septuagint (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint)(what you call the bible) and the new testament are very different beasts and if you are buying into new testament anything then you are actually following down the wrong path

To clarify, I personally do not call the Septuagint the Bible. Maybe you meant in a generic sense but I want to clarify that I myself do not call the Septuagint "the Bible'.


Saul of Tarsus who is such a monster that he had to change his name to Paul and add the title himself Apostle to rebrand himself even though he never was tutored by jesus ) and not the telling of the guards(Judas). What was Saul doing when he received his vision? He was persecuting Christians as Pharisee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharisees).

Funny you mention that. I literally wrote a book on that topic. Not a well written book, but yeah, that's a topic I know pretty well. LOL

Yes I apologize, that was generic you and not you specific.

But on that point. The Septuagint is the bible plus some. What I was trying to point out is all of the old testament(in a standard Christian bible doesnt matter what version) is in the Septuagint but not all of the Septuagint in the old testament.

So my questions is who got to decide which to keep and which to exclude?

And by reading only the parts that were included(what most call the bible) you are actually supporting the choice of keeping some and leaving others.

[shaberon]

I also want to be clear that I'm not looking to join anything or to find the original "masters" or "teachers" of any school of thought and go be taught by them. I'm long done with letting someone set themselves up as my teacher and me their student. I'm not interested in a formal education, rather in sharing ideas with others and learning from each other.



That's fine. I sort of get where are you are coming from about wanting it not to be attached to anything.

I can't really do that any more, as the result of several years of it was to make an oath that Buddha is the best and most complete guide. What came from that was more useful than anything else.

Even if that means joining or learning something formal, it still gives us the liberty to experience whatever else we want. In that sense, I can find a teacher anywhere.

I would have to agree that Gnosis without the proper grounding and protection can be very dangerous.

Might be interesting to see what comes from this, but, I can only interact with it from the view of experience through an existing system.

[Arn]

The Buddha only went halfway, he stopped at hridaya granthi bheda

[sms]

(...)I would have to agree that Gnosis without the proper grounding and protection can be very dangerous. (...)

That would be in a way true, but if the interpretation of the “fine red thread” (as presented in my previus post) would be correct, then the “danger” would go together, hand in hand, with the awakening in the gnostic sense. When properly understood, it would also be logical, even on the level of our false consciousness. The “fine red thread” is also saying that the one (lie) has to come to the True (objective) by using the False (non-objective) or “through the lies to the Truth”. In the practice, as personalities in human bodies (false) we have to use our mind (false) to arrive to the Truth, in the illusion (false) we are inhabiting!? By all our logic, something like that, would be impossible. Unless, there is ‘something’ else here?! In other words, Pinocchio, as a puppet, needs to reach the human mind, to become a real human being, while thinking that the mind he is currently using is human enough and that he already was a human being in a real reality?!

Even Charles Forte, after completing his homework, asked the question, 100 years ago: “How a puppet can rebel against the puppet-master”?

So, what would happen if a puppet would cut the strings between itself and the puppet-master? The strings are also connected to puppet’s mind and the puppet-master controls and manipulates the puppets (us) through “our” minds. Why did Castaneda say (in his book Active Side of Infinity) that, the day when a warrior expels the “foreign installation” (personality), will be the saddest day for him, as there would not be anything there, anymore, which will tell him what to think and what to do?! Are we sure that we are the ones who do the thinking and who make decisions about our doings? (Again, why Eckhart Tolle has defined awakening as “a process of separation between the thinking and awareness”?!)

So, awakening is dangerous for the personality (false) in the illusion (false), because in order to become true or to objectify its existence, our personality needs to make a transition by ‘merging’ with the True, after which it can not stay the same as it was.


As long as man accepts the principle of the final annihilation of his Personality without a fight, he can carry on in life without attracting the increasing pressure of the General Law upon himself. The case is totally different if he struggles to surpass the limits which it imposes. He then runs against the action upon him of this Law and its derivatives. It acts simultaneously on several planes: physical, mental and moral.
(…)
We will also find precious advice, based on accumulated experience over the ages, which is particularly helpful to students of esoteric science; because once the first positive results are obtained, those students will unmistakably run up against the active opposition of the law and the game of the Crafty One.”

(Mouravieff; Gnosis 1, pages 68-69)

(…)


“This kind of shock will never be lacking for those who work in the world. Indeed, to the General Law someone who ‘moves’ looks like a fugitive from collective work, and nature takes immediate steps—a whole series of appropriate measures — to make the rebel fall back into line.”

(Mouravieff; Gnosis II, page 210)

(The “Crafty One” or the “General Law” would refer to the puppet/master (AI). And, that would be the next point of the “fine red thread”):

11. the seeker (the adamic man/woman) will also come under an attack by the “boss”, at a certain stage of his/her awakening. This could be easily understood, as his/her mind is connected to the ”boss”/AI and when it detects “suspicious behaviour”, it will apply a ‘corrective action’ in order to return the ‘rebel’ back to the herd, or to derail him/her. (There are numerous ways how the control system does it, some of which have been described – here (https://soulmindspirit.wordpress.com/2016/04/25/hyperdimensional-attacks/)).

However, by that time, a gnostic seeker would be aware that there is nothing ‘good’ or ‘bad’, ‘positive’ or ‘negative’, per se, in this reality which is based on a false dualism; i.e. he/she may use those attacks or the “bad” situation he/she is in, positively, as he/she must overcome it. Although those (“hyper-dimensional”) attacks may produce a lot of damage, they are necessary for the gnostic seeker in order to realize on a deeper level, that he/she was dealing with an AI, which keeps attacking his/her personality, while he/she is not his/her personality. He/she will be able to demonstrate that only false part of his/her being can be attacked by the false/the boss/AI, by switching off his/her personality, when necessary, by stopping the thoughts and moving into awareness only; i.e. being aware of the moment he/she is in and all the happenings inside and outside, while the mind is completely quiet. (Here, the books the Power of Now, Silence Speaks and New Earth, by E. Tolle, might be helpful?!). So, it is a question if we would be able to realize who/what we are and what we are dealing with here…. without those ‘dangerous’ attacks carried out by the puppet-master?!

[shaberon]

The Buddha only went halfway, he stopped at hridaya granthi bheda

Can you expound this?

If it is an Agni or Nath assertion, any of that is available to us. The way I would understand it, hrdaya granthi or "heart knot" would be considered more of a beginning than a stopping point.

Whether any of this is dangerous, yes, I suppose that is part of the price of trying. I think what a lot of the Eastern, and probably Western, systems are trying to say, is that the real person is in the heart, and more or less we seek to stop the mind as we know it. It's more or less a switch that allows that person to operate or not.

[XelNaga]

Gnostics.are.not.Christian.they.pretend.to.Their.main.god.is.Sophia.The.Gnostic.Christ.is.a.feminine .man.

Interesting.how.they.describe.the.Archons.but.then.again.their.mother.is.Sophia.
I.think.Sophia.the.mother.of.the.Archons.is.pictured.as.a.mother.so.she.resembles.the.Saint.Sophia.t hat.adopted.Orphans

Sophia.is.a.mother.that.adopts.to.give.enlightment.discipline.and.feminism.
In.the.end.you.will.burn.your.self(sophia's.enlightment)disciplin.your.self(she.will.torture.you)and .become.a.feminine.feline

She.is.the.Devil.friend.She.is.Lucifera.the.goat.mother.and.her.son.Lucifer.
There.are.other.Lucifers.but.we.are.talking.about.the.Goat.one.

Gnosticism.is.a.way.to.renounce.your.true.self.for.Sophia's.enlightment
Will.you.accept.the.bargen.

You.will.get.some.knowlege.as.gnosticism.means.knowlege.(gnosis)but.this.gnosis.comes.at.a.cost.it's .not.free.You.will.have.to.sell.out.

Dear sparrow7,

Would you be so kind to tell me where did you get your knowledge/opinions about Gnosticism and Sophia?

I've read a lot about that topic, but have never encountered these things/thoughts about it.

PS: I hope you got your new magic-keyboard, that mental one seems pretty exhausting :p

[petra]

So, it is a question if we would be able to realize who/what we are and what we are dealing with here…. without those ‘dangerous’ attacks carried out by the puppet-master?!

I don't think I would have. These attacks could also be seen as glitches too, I think so. I don't think they're "supposed to happen" - which is why the AI wants to fix it right away.

In my case it was so ridiculous I remember thinking "This is too stupid to be real!", and I was going around muttering about the world not being real for a while too.

Out of all the suspicious stuff, here are the ones I found most suspicious (I may be missing a few)

- My friends & family giving me "evil looks"
- Inordinate amount of "bad luck" all at once
- Thoughts talking to one another
- Handwriting changing / difficulty spelling words
- Seeing imagery with my eyes shut
- Edit: one more - Rubbing my hands together like I'm going to win.... for no apparent reason

[Arn]

Can you expound this?

Hey, yes this is definitely a Nath assertion. The Buddha went halfway, he stopped at the void. He was conscious of the void but not conscious of the time. At least nowhere in any of the Buddhas writings or text is time consciousness discussed.

[Journeyman]

This is a great exchange from which I've learned a lot. This for instance:



The Buddha only went halfway, he stopped at hridaya granthi bheda

Can you expound this?

If it is an Agni or Nath assertion, any of that is available to us. The way I would understand it, hrdaya granthi or "heart knot" would be considered more of a beginning than a stopping point.

Whether any of this is dangerous, yes, I suppose that is part of the price of trying. I think what a lot of the Eastern, and probably Western, systems are trying to say, is that the real person is in the heart, and more or less we seek to stop the mind as we know it. It's more or less a switch that allows that person to operate or not.


Does 'stop the mind' equate to silencing the ego? That's a recurrent theme I've found in other spiritual writings, or at least I think that's what it means?

[Lunesoleil]

Have you read the Gospel of Thomas? If so, how much do you understand? That's a good place to start.

I have read some Gnostic texts. They had it right, but not as regards duality and living in a body. The Gnostics did not have warm feelings for duality and the body, which is, as Buddhists would say, based on ignorance - not knowing. After full awakening it is realized that the energies of infinity infuse all levels of being, even duality. Thus the saying "heaven on earth". It would be nice if we could go back in time and "see" how many Gnostic masters were fully awake.

I didn't know the Thomas Gospels.
In the New Testament there are:
the gospels of Matthew
the gospels of Mark
the gospels of Luke
the gospels of John
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Flivres-mystiques.com%2FpartieTEXTES%2FApocryphes%2FThomas.html&sandbox=1

Thank you for discovering the gospel of Thomas
:wizard:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.levangile.com%2FAffichage-Multi-Bible.php