Life Is A Strange Loop, Gestures of Creation & Renaissance Humanity

[edina]

... To be honest, I feel a great stagnancy and coldness in the world in general, so if people are seeking something and it's not here; it could be because it's not anywhere. Yet, at the same time, it is everywhere if we find a way to tap into it against all odds against us on this planet.

It's good to see you here again, Merry Mom.

I wondered where you were.

Your whole post is very heartfelt.

The last line you wrote has stayed with me.

Yet, at the same time, ii is everywhere if we find a way to tap into it against all odds against us on this planet.

I think, because I spend so much time walking and in nature, I'm not feeling this coldness you described.

I'm going to ponder this tomorrow on my walk. Thank you.

I have a few minutes to follow up this. I did what I said I would do, and meditated/pondered Merry Mom's statement here while on my walks.

After a few days, a thought percolated into my awareness, “Life is a strange loop”. I kept getting this phrase during the night.

On 16 February, I realized it was related to Merry Mom's statement that I had decided to hold in mind and heart while I walked.


Yet, at the same time, is is everywhere if we find a way to tap into it against all odds against us on this planet.

I have two books on my shelves with the phrase “strange loop” in the titles.

One by Joseph Chilton Pearce (https://ttfuture.org/academy/joseph-chilton-pearce/introduction-joseph-chilton-pearce), a favorite author, titled, “Strange Loops and Gestures of Creation (https://ttfuture.org/files/2/pdf/strange_introduction_mm.pdf)”.

Another by Douglas Hofstadter, an interesting thinker, “I Am A Strange Loop (http://booksdl.org/get.php?md5=5CB286338D68FD1F3A1B1F87A748DD67)”.

The first book seems the more relevant to the statement pondered.

I’ve started rereading both these books.

I wish I had time to deep dive on them.

That’ll have to wait until I’m finished with the Appalachian Trail thru-hike.

There's a quote in Joseph Chilton Pearce's book that leaped out at me.

"We are a billion heads and one heart."

Feels very related to what Merry Mom described.

[edina]

An interesting aside, at least for me, is a poem by Antonio Machado (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Machado).

It's quoted at the beginning of the last chapter of Joseph Chilton Pearce’s book.


Walker, your footsteps
are the road, and nothing more.

Walker, there is no road,
the road is made by walking.

Walker, you make the road,
and turning to look behind
you see the path you never
again will step upon.

Walker, there is not road,
only foam trails on the sea.

[Smell the Roses]

There's a quote in Joseph Chilton Pearce's book that leaped out at me.

"We are a billion heads and one heart."

Feels very related to what Merry Mom described.

What a beautiful quote! Is it comforting or disturbing? I can only do my part, and can't do anyone else's part for them.

[edina]

Parking this here right now, solely on the basis of intuition...



Media and Earth-Reactions

In previous, pre-electronic media times, emotional reactions to local disasters took place only within a local population. One group warring on another, for instance, remained localized within that specific area simply by the comparative isolation and distance between communities. Calamities in one area obviously could not activate an emotional reaction in some far-removed locale simultaneously, and even such information arriving later and at second hand in far-flung place would be too sporadic and isolated to build into a significant "negative force".

Widespread, synchronous emotional incoherence can and does continually take place today, however, through electronic media. This now saturates every inch of the Earth's surface and atmosphere, from Arctic snow-fields to New York, London, the jungle of Africa, steppes of Asia, or wherever. Thus 9-11, sweeping up every form of media for day on end, repeated ad nauseam and witnessed by virtually the entire population of our planet, brought about surprisingly powerful emotional reactions in those populations. Even in such far-flung climes as Australia, reports were of people rushing into the streets to share their distress, as the images played on and on. All of this planet-wide attention -- and resulting emotion -- created a negative field-effect of serious planet-wide force, indistinguishable from other planetary physical disruptions and temporarily bringing corresponding shifts in Earth's magnetic fields.

(page 67, Chapter 6, Scientific Perspectives of Mind-Heart and Resonant Fields, Strange Loops and Gestures of Creation by Joseph Chilton Pearce)

[edina]

An interesting aside, at least for me, is a poem by Antonio Machado (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Machado).

It's quoted at the beginning of the last chapter of Joseph Chilton Pearce’s book.


Walker, your footsteps
are the road, and nothing more.

Walker, there is no road,
the road is made by walking.

Walker, you make the road,
and turning to look behind
you see the path you never
again will step upon.

Walker, there is not road,
only foam trails on the sea.


More from the book by JCP (Joseph Chilton Pearce), Strange Loops
This is to weave into some thinking processes, later on, (across time)


Evolution is the transcendent aspect of creation, rising to go beyond itself, being the response of life to its own ever-unfolding evolution. And every living phenomenon or event reaches, at some point, it’s eventual limitation and constraint.

To move beyond limitation and constraint is a twofold process: first, to generate such movement itself, and second, to create that which lies beyond and manifests through movement.

“Where” transcendence might go in the “moving beyond” is determined by the going itself.

We walk by falling forward, and go where we have to go … poet Roethke.

Our “going” enters into the nature of that which we enter into and bring about by our going – which is the very definition of the strange loops rising within this “mirroring” process.

As Robert Sardell points out, in that Moment, the future will flow into our present, “making all things new”, if allowed.

Not death itself, but the fear it engenders, is the greatest of constraints.

Emotion involves our capacity to relate and interact, which is a cultural issue, not ontological, and tackled later in this book.

Wandering or meandering stochastically (randomly or emergent) through its endless branching ways, is more true-to-life as it happens.

(page xx)

Sort of like feeling your way forward, or flying by the seat of your pants, by feel.

'Feel' as a movement, does not readily translate into words, in a linear, or even a sequential, fashion. It transcends the constraints of our perception of time.

The Tao comes to mind, a majestic random synergy that holds the potential to affect your life daily -- if you pay attention, with awareness.

The Tao is often experienced as synchronicity, meaningful coincidences, serendipity, when we are aligned to it's highest purpose.

[edina]

This is an Edgar Cayce Thought of the Day emailed to me back on 31 May 2022. I'm parking it here to contemplate.


"...the body from the electrical
standpoint is as a magnet and
through the etheric energy is
being accorded the proper
vibrations as to make for perfect
coordination of all the organs, or
all glands, of all functions in the
system."
ECRL 440-15

49636

[edina]

I think many people on the forum are familiar with Jane Roberts and the "Seth" material (https://avalonlibrary.net/?search=Jane+Roberts). I remember my Mom had the book, "The Nature of Personal Reality (https://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Jane%20Roberts%20-%20Seth%20-%20Nature%20of%20Personal%20Reality%20%28Scanned%29.pdf)" sitting on the family book shelves for many years throughout my teenage years. At some point in my early twenties she gave it to me and I remember reading it for the first time, while in the dorm at Lindsey AS in Weisbaden Germany. I was about 23 years old at the time.

Recently, I had reason to revisit this book and in the process made special note of a few paragraphs, that I thought to share here. It seems relevant to the concept of "Strange Loops"


“A new belief in the present, however, can cause changes in the past on a neuronal level. You must understand that basically time is simultaneous. Present beliefs can indeed alter the past. In some cases of healing, in spontaneous disappearance of cancer, for instance, or of any other disease, certain alterations are made that affect cellular memory, genetic codes, or neuronal patterns in the past.” ...A sudden or intense belief in health can indeed “reverse” a disease, but in a very practical way it is a reversal in terms of time.” pages 325/326


You rule your experiences from the focal point of your present, where beliefs directly intercept with the body and physical world on the one hand, and the invisible world from which you draw your energy and strength on the other. This applies to individual, societies, races and nations, and to sociological, biological and psychic activities.

In daily practical experience, try to concentrate for a while upon seemingly subordinate abilities, ones that you think of as latent. If you do so consistently, using your imagination and will, then those abilities will become prominent in your present. The current beliefs will reprogram and alter past experiences. It is not simply that the past is forgotten, unconsciously perceived events will be put together in a new way and organized under a new heading, but that in the past (now not perceivable), the entire bodily response to seemingly past events will change.

Your desire or belief will literally be reaching back into time, teaching the nerves new tricks. Definite reorganizations in that past will occur in your present, allowing you to behave in entirely new fashions.

Learned behavior therefore alters not only present and future but also past conduct. Your power as a rational consciousness focused in the present provides you with opportunities for creativity that you are but vaguely learning to understand. As you do learn, you will automatically begin to appreciate the multidimensional nature of not only your own species but of others as well. The moment as you think of it, then, is the creative framework through which you, the nonphysical self, constantly form corporeal reality; and through that window into earthly existence you form both its future and it’s past.

And just for fun....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDjfMI6QvxQ

boomerang (https://youtu.be/hlLY4PwUXqU?si=g1OJLxTjrPGimQsp&t=348) ... over my home town, evidently :sun:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlLY4PwUXqU?si=g1OJLxTjrPGimQsp&t=348

[edina]

I realized yesterday that I had never copied, as I intended, the yellow butterfly story I shared in another thread (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?119534-UFOs-the-After-Life&p=1518582&viewfull=1#post1518582) into this one... again, because it's a part of thinking process I've been mulling related to this topic.


When I was hiking the Appalachian Trail, there was a time toward the end where I kept hearing in my mind's ear, "You are still thinking inside the box." I'm a rather outside-the-box thinker, so this surprised me.

One morning, very early, in the soft gray dawn, I saw a yellow butterfly beside the trail.

I stopped to take a photo of it, but I couldn't get a clear angle. I thought to myself about this, and the butterfly, lifted and moved slightly to a better angle.

I tried to take the photo again, and thought again to myself, "I need you to move just a bit more."

The butterfly lifted again, slightly, into a good spot for me to get a decent photo of it.

In my mind, I thought to the butterfly, thank you.

Later, I realized how unusual the situation was. I had admired this particular species of butterfly for days.

They always flew in the sunshine, in the warmest time of the day. The sun wasn't up just yet. It was unusual for the butterfly to even be out at that time of day. And, it seemed responsive to my thoughts.

As I continued to walk the trail that day, I often thought to myself, I'm missing something here? It occurred to me that there was some sort of message that I didn't quite hear. Then I asked myself, What was happening just before I saw that butterfly?

As I asked myself that question I remembered, I was hearing repeatedly, the inner thought, "You're still thinking inside the box." It was probably it's most intense just before this butterfly experience.

The more I thought about it, the more I thought of how humans and nature communicate. There seems to be a dynamic involved in our relationship to creation, inwardly and outwardly that we have yet to fully explore.

I feel that the whole purpose of that Appalachian Trail adventure was to experience that moment. To realize that insight in the way that I did.

I walked away from that moment with a whole new direction for my life.


When thinking what it may mean, "thinking inside the box" a couple of ideas come to mind:

1. The first reminds me of a dream I had when I was a young teenager that involved uncovering a black box. At the time I talked with my Mom about it. My Mom was very involved with Edgar Cayce's ARE (Association for Research and Enlightenment.) She personally knew Cayce's son. She shared with me of how there was a "prophecy" that the family members didn't discuss publicly that involved a "black box". She wondered if my dream may have something to do with that. I was intrigued, but then Mom became more vague, and I've never been able to independently confirm what she told me.

2. There's something called "topological thinking". I'd like to understand it better, and when I think of this experience, the concept invariably comes up in my mind.

I ask myself, "How does one think outside the box?" What does that look like?
And another question, "What is the box, being referenced?

[Ernie Nemeth]

Excellent points, Edina.

I'd have more to say but not on the phone.

Thanks for this reminder. I often forget that a major theme in my life has always been to 'think outside the box'.

As a result I cannot forget that the world's judgement does not apply to me.

[Ernie Nemeth]

For me, 'thinking outside the box' means more than just exercising a unique strategy frowned on or never thought of by the established way of thinking or doing something. Or perhaps I should say it is taking 'thinking outside the box' to the extreme.

Especially true, I have searched for 'the answer' by 'thinking outside the box'.

I found that in order to find 'the truth' or 'the answer' involved a whole lot of 'thinking outside the box'. In this world, nothing is known with certainty (except death and taxes?) and so those that are searchers must take matters into their own hands. Even our religions are conflicted with not a one offering a total or satisfactory 'answer'. My search was based on finding a comprehensive philosophy that could be taken as 'the answer' and could be applied universally regarding any topic of discussion.

Yet there are areas that are not amenable to concrete 'solutions'. But even though there are no 'answers' for certain 'questions', it is often 'the question' that needs refinement. That is somewhere 'thinking outside the box' comes in very handy - asking the 'right' question.

I have been satisfied with my 'answers' for twenty years now. But because of my earlier efforts, 'the answer' cannot be applied to me. This has to do with the fact that I had no way to know that 'the answer' would require 'living the answer'. I wanted an intellectual 'answer', not a lifestyle rearrangement. For me the required changes are impossible to make, and so I just wait for another chance in another life.


To me, 'thinking outside the box' has a lot of qualities that are necessary to live 'the answer'. Normal thinking leads to confusion because normal thoughts are conflicted, and lead to chaos. If one decides to 'think outside the box', one has already accomplished the only step one needs to make on one's own. To reject the accepted response of 'in the box thinking', immediately prepares the psyche for 'the truth' because the one place the truth can never be found is by 'in the box thinking'.

'In the box thinking' is using old thoughts and ways of doing to reach a desired outcome. To 'think outside the box' does away with all that and is basically attesting to the fact that the world does not know.


But it is much more than that. The 'box' is this reality. It is a bunch of data points and way markers that keeps this reality operating - even though it is illogical and finite. We keep within the parameters of the box because that is the only place this reality makes sense. Step outside it, and everything is bright and new - and real.


To most humans, the opposite is true. Stepping outside the box equates with taking a risk and from there the world looks unsure, unsafe, and unfathomable.

[Harmony]

That's a good way of describing " in the box" Ernie, in your above post. It helps one mentally visualise that portion of reality most see and interact with in everyday life.


Looking outside the box, as many are starting to explore, is kind of like a cell in our body that has now become aware that there are other cells in our body with different functions, but each is depedant on the other. When that happens our expansion opens doors to a whole new way of looking at things. On a larger scale, we explore our solar system and our Universe. Our decsions and choices change and the conseqences of actions on the whole become more apparent. :shooting star:

[Ernie Nemeth]

The cells in our body is a great analogy.

A heart cell does not complain that it must work non-stop for the entirety of an organism's life. A blood cell doesn't complain of its short existence, nor does a skin cell. All knows their function and executes their function without complaint, riot, or strike. It does not undermine other cells, assembling a counter culture to contest the functions they have been born to perform. Instead, there is harmony, peace, happiness.

'Thinking outside the box', in this case, would destroy the perfection inherent in the organism. That is because the truth is already present. To 'think outside the box' would require rejecting the truth.

In our situation, 'thinking outside the box' is required in order to return truth to our lives. Without truth there is no perfection, no harmony.


We all have a function. We are cells of a much larger organism that has yet to be born. Without the organizing principle, inherent in the truth about us, there can only be pain, suffering, and death leading to unfulfilled potential and wasted lives.

We are born perfect. We quickly learn to unbalance that perfection. Soon we make deals with death in order to live a meaningless existence without purpose. Then we die.


It does not have to be this way. We are created to live forever, in truth. Without truth, we age and waste away.

[Harmony]

The cells in our body is a great analogy.

A heart cell does not complain that it must work non-stop for the entirety of an organism's life. A blood cell doesn't complain of its short existence, nor does a skin cell. All knows their function and executes their function without complaint, riot, or strike. It does not undermine other cells, assembling a counter culture to contest the functions they have been born to perform. Instead, there is harmony, peace, happiness.

'Thinking outside the box', in this case, would destroy the perfection inherent in the organism. That is because the truth is already present. To 'think outside the box' would require rejecting the truth.

In our situation, 'thinking outside the box' is required in order to return truth to our lives. Without truth there is no perfection, no harmony.


We all have a function. We are cells of a much larger organism that has yet to be born. Without the organizing principle, inherent in the truth about us, there can only be pain, suffering, and death leading to unfulfilled potential and wasted lives.

We are born perfect. We quickly learn to unbalance that perfection. Soon we make deals with death in order to live a meaningless existence without purpose. Then we die.


It does not have to be this way. We are created to live forever, in truth. Without truth, we age and waste away.


When I look at this, in my own, perhaps flawed, way, I see that we must go further and "look outside the box" becasue as you also said, we are a part of that too, we must be in harmony with that too.


Somehow, by observing more, another stepping stone along our journey, our current body perhaps is meant to fade away at some point as we cross the horizon into the next that encompasses more and we may have a slightly different body that is capable to hold a larger capacity of that whole truth, the whole picture. As you said too, "We are cells of a much larger organism that has yet to be born".


I often don't like what I see happening in the world, and all I can hold on to is my truth or connection to "Love" and maybe the rest is suppose to be happening, the falling apart, but I find it difficult to "feel" that suffering. :heart:

[thepainterdoug]

I often think there is everything to fix and then nothing to fix. i often wonder why books are written one, then two, then three on the same subject from the same author where the idea or concept once easily presented, takes so many books to try to explain or solve. Why could the first book not explain the issue? This may appear to be a non intellectual comment but perhaps it is the opposite, an intellectual one. That we over explain over analyze and work our way away from the simple truth . Often a childs question or answer is closer to the answer. But why Mommy ? is often responded to by bewilderment.

[edina]

Excellent points, Edina.

I'd have more to say but not on the phone.

Thanks for this reminder. I often forget that a major theme in my life has always been to 'think outside the box'.

As a result I cannot forget that the world's judgement does not apply to me.

This intrigued me Ernie, usually there's a story behind a "major theme" in one's life.

How did this come about for you, I wonder, how did you come to know this was a major theme in your life?

Will you expand or clarify what you mean by "the world's judgment"?

I've been thinking about what you've written and am interested in hearing more. :heart2:

[Ernie Nemeth]

I noticed very early in life that adults were not too bright as a rule. Their solutions often made things worse or didn't address the problem at all. And, most adults don't know anything of value.

In order to accomplish my mission here, I knew I would have to think for myself. Since inside the box thinking is the thinking most adults do, I knew I would have to 'think outside the box'.

As far as the world is concerned, I am a failure. But what I must remember is that I did not come here to do what others are doing. I came here to do what I want to do, not what the world pressures me to do.


Answers can't be found in the box because the box is all about keeping answers from ever being known. There is a glass ceiling to this world, that turns even deductive reasoning back on itself so that certain topics are never broached at all. Other topics have built in monitors in the form of false narratives that short circuit logical analysis. And a few topics are constantly policed. Any in depth discussion or contemplation results in increasingly difficult to resist mind freeze or sudden impossible distractions.


There is an unspoken rule of this world. Making money is the reason to be alive. Without it life is hard. But funny thing about money - you can never have enough.
So why should I chase after a thing I can never achieve?
The chasing money thing is so embedded in our world that people will kill for it, will sell their souls or their mothers for it. I will not.

People wonder why I do not start a business making wooden boxes. I am an expert at it. I do excellent work. Why would I sully the thing that makes me happy with tying it to how much money I can earn from it? That would cheapen the experience. And because people are cheap, I would never get what I deserve for them anyway. That is just one of many examples of how I constantly think outside the box.

There are other more tangible examples but they could get me into trouble with the law, so I can't talk about those. I do things my way, not the way I am told I must. That way the things I want and the things I want to do are within my grasp. To do it as the world says means jumping through hoops that have nothing to do with my desire to accomplish something. Often the 'right' way means hurry up and stop. When I get an idea, I jump in with both feet while the desire is strong. I don't want to and refuse to wait until sometime in the future when I've paid enough or filled out enough forms.


In philosophy and the sciences, the only way to a healthy (novel, interesting) answer is to 'think outside the box'. What is the use of regurgitating someone else's ideas that we already know led nowhere? I question everything. I decide what I will believe based on the available facts as I uncovered them. Not as someone else did.


This world is myopically focused on this life and the death to come. I prefer to focus on the only life there is, which is not of this world at all.
That requires constant 'outside the box' thinking.

[edina]

I’m comfortable carrying on muliple conversations within a thread of a topic. Therefore, I thought I might pull out bits and pieces, snippets of what you’ve shared and expand or riff on them, as the exploration and discovery flows… sort of like improv jazz.

I’ll keep each bit in a separate comment post, just to keep it a bit tidy, visually and mentally.
When I read this line in your above comment, two different and yet similar thoughts came to mind.


My search was based on finding a comprehensive philosophy that could be taken as 'the answer' and could be applied universally regarding any topic of discussion.

1. Maybe you’re familiar with the Ringing Cedars (http://ringingcedars.com/) series of books by the Russian businessman Vladimir Migre”. The stories were making the rounds of the alternative media I was looking at back around 2009. In the first book, maybe the second book, the main character of the story, Anastasia, mentioned how her grandfathers had asked her a question at a very young age. The idea, as I presently remember it, is that this was a cultural practice, perhaps Vedic, since later on Anastasia explains that she is Vedic.

By asking a child a critical question at a certain point in development, it sets the creative capacity of the child’s mind to answering that question. And the elders paid attention to how that was lived out/answered in the child's life.

The concept caught my attention, and I’ve often thought of it in years since I read it.

2. Buckminster Fuller alluded to a similar idea, or an angle of it in my mind, in a conversation recounted by Lynne Twist in her book, The Soul of Money (https://soulofmoney.org/books/), on page 237. She also mentions in in this interview with Vicki Robin (https://www.resilience.org/stories/2020-11-03/what-could-possibly-go-right-episode-21-lynne-twist/).


“Never forget your children are your elders in universe time. They’ve come into a more complete, more evolved universe than you can ever understand, except through their eyes.”

The story as told in the book:

During this pivotal time Bucky was central to my life and work, and one night we were honored to have him come to dinner at our house. Our children were six, eight, and ten years old, and Bill and I, Bucky and our kids sat at our kitchen table. Bucky was often referred to as the “Grandfather of the Future” and it was so exciting—such a gift—seeing him there with our children sharing a simple, home-cooked meal. At one point, my eight-year-old daughter, Summer, said something that was profound in the way children do, speaking a deep truth with their innocent insight. Her remark was a kind of showstopper for the three adults at the table—Bill, Bucky, and me—and we looked at each other, touched by the wisdom of this child.

Then Bucky said something that changed my life and my relationship with my children forever. He said to Bill and me, “Remember, your children are your elders in universe time. They have come into a more complete, more evolved universe than you or I can know. We can only see that universe through their eyes.”

Seeing my children as my “elders in universe time” was a surprising and inspiring thought. All the commanding events and technological advances of the day that gripped our attention now would be history for our children, the soil under their feet, from which their own dreams and greatest endeavors would grow in ways we could not even imagine.

2 and 1/2 :) Rudolph Steiner talked of how it’s important to remember that the people we think of as having passed from life, still live. And he felt we ought to have a bit more of a collaboration with the physical and non-physical. I’m paraphrasing very loosely here, from an imperfect memory… If I come across that reference, I’ll come back here and post it.

[edina]

I have been satisfied with my 'answers' for twenty years now. But because of my earlier efforts, 'the answer' cannot be applied to me. This has to do with the fact that I had no way to know that 'the answer' would require 'living the answer'. I wanted an intellectual 'answer', not a lifestyle rearrangement. For me the required changes are impossible to make, and so I just wait for another chance in another life.

When I read this, I just felt my heart go out to you. I just wanted to let you know that I feel that empathetic tug.

[edina]

Normal thinking leads to confusion because normal thoughts are conflicted, and lead to chaos.

This statement reminded me of A Course in Miracles. It’s a similar logic. Are you familiar with A Course in Miracles?

[Ernie Nemeth]

Yes, I've more than heard of it.

The study of ACIM solidified my understandings and highlighted the areas I needed to improve or place more emphasis on.
I am currently working on those areas.

I've read the 'Big Blue Book' so many times I can switch to that narrative style and slant anytime I wish.

[edina]

But it is much more than that. The 'box' is this reality. It is a bunch of data points and way markers that keeps this reality operating - even though it is illogical and finite. We keep within the parameters of the box because that is the only place this reality makes sense. Step outside it, and everything is bright and new - and real.


To most humans, the opposite is true. Stepping outside the box equates with taking a risk and from there the world looks unsure, unsafe, and unfathomable.

The top paragraph here feels insightful. I’m probably going to revisit this some more, like I do some of the quotes I shared earlier in the thread and give a think for a bit.

The second paragraph reminds me of someone I once worked with back in the 80’s. The guy was a born-again Christian. His faith was a lifeline for him. He often quoted scriptures and when I asked him what those scriptures meant to him, he would quote other scriptures. His logic was very circular, a closed loop. He could not tell me in his own words what it meant to him.

He could be a pushy about this. Sometimes, obnoxiously so.

But, one time, I drove him home from work, and learned what life was like for him before he was “saved”. It was a nightmare. Those scriptures were literally like one of those round life saver rings to someone lost in an ocean of horrifying nightmares. I can’t even imagine what it must have been like to live in his skin/life. I became much more patient with him after this.

Which reminds me of another experience I was had with a woman who worked as a secretary in the church I attended. This was also in the 80’s.

Because of my life experiences as a child, and with my Mom, and being influenced by Edgar Cayce to the degree I was, I tend to interpret the Bible in ways that often feel uncomfortable to people who have a more traditional understanding.

One day as I was talking to this secretary, she suddenly started shaking all over. I knew I was speaking pretty close to boundary edge that she could probably handle. As I observed her shaking, she seemed unaware of it. I wondered to myself about what was happening, and an inner voice said, “You are shaking her to her foundations.” I felt a bit of a chastisement about this. And backed off on what I was talking about. Her body calmed down.

There’s something very real about this, visceral even, when one begins to move another person toward the edges of their box. Or even when we move ourselves to the edge. I think it’s important to be gentle with people. And with ourselves. And we’ll probably need lots of patience and gentleness going forward.

Although, that said, sometimes life itself isn’t so gentle, is it?

[edina]

That's a good way of describing " in the box" Ernie, in your above post. It helps one mentally visualise that portion of reality most see and interact with in everyday life.


Looking outside the box, as many are starting to explore, is kind of like a cell in our body that has now become aware that there are other cells in our body with different functions, but each is depedant on the other. When that happens our expansion opens doors to a whole new way of looking at things. On a larger scale, we explore our solar system and our Universe. Our decsions and choices change and the conseqences of actions on the whole become more apparent. :shooting star:

I can remember as a kid, playing with the thought experiment of how we as individuals are possibly cells within a larger being.

And then playing the inversion of that thought experiment. How do our cells experience their existence within the context of the larger physical being of our body?

And then incorporating these ideas into the thought of souls, and Spirit. Orders of creation?

There are so many perspectives to expand upon. But one thing I discovered in the process of all of this, is that “Where ever I go, there I am.”

I remember one afernoon when my Mom, Granny and Aunt were laughing and laughing. And there was a repeated phrase, “There you are” or “There you go”. As a young kid, I was baffled. I couldn’t catch the humor of it. They were literally rolling and crying from laughter.

There’s this one point about creation that I find fascinating. Every being in creation experiences itself as if it were the center of it all.

I think Seth talked about this in “The Nature of Personal Reality”. The spider admiring the artful beauty of it’s web at the center of its universe. He spoke of Units of Consciousness. I think that fits in with this Harmony, what do you think?

A friend shared with me an experience she once had that’s related to this. She wasn’t into this sort of thinking. She was very down-to-earth, practical, and frankly impatient with conversations of spiritual or metaphyscial nature. So, I was greatly surprised when she told me of how one time, she was watching a bee fly into and out of daffodils. Suddenly, she was experiencing herself from the perspective of the bee. She described to me of how when the bee flew into a flower, her whole field of vision was yellow.

I think about this sometimes. She was actually, intellectually, closed-minded to this sort of experience. And yet, she had the experience regardless of what her intellect thought of it.

Also, she didn’t experience the flower as the bee does, she experienced the perspective of the bee, but from within her own sense of herself.

Perhaps, this is a box? I’m not sure how we can think outside the center of our “I”.

Where we go, there we are.

[edina]

Yes, I've more than heard of it.

The study of ACIM solidified my understandings and highlighted the areas I needed to improve or place more emphasis on.
I am currently working on those areas.

I've read the 'Big Blue Book' so many times I can switch to that narrative style and slant anytime I wish.

I've been through A Course in Miracles, the whole text/workbook process, three times. This was back in the 90's.

It truly exercises one's logic. While I found it super-useful. I still sometimes question it's premise.

I'm laughing to myself, about myself.

There's a book I read recently, called "The Four Tendencies (https://gretchenrubin.com/books/the-four-tendencies/)". I am full-on of the Questioner tendency. :sun:

[edina]

I often think there is everything to fix and then nothing to fix. i often wonder why books are written one, then two, then three on the same subject from the same author where the idea or concept once easily presented, takes so many books to try to explain or solve. Why could the first book not explain the issue? This may appear to be a non intellectual comment but perhaps it is the opposite, an intellectual one. That we over explain over analyze and work our way away from the simple truth . Often a childs question or answer is closer to the answer. But why Mommy ? is often responded to by bewilderment.

Hey Doug, I just want to say, I love this...

And this is coming from someone who has a 30' foot wall of floor to ceiling books.

I appreciate your genuineness. Is the image of your current avatar from the wingmakers art?
Or is it your art?

As an aside, I love when children ask questions. Of course, I remember being a kid and driving the adults in my life bonkers with all my questions.

I figure when a child asks a question it's because they're curious and thinking about it. So, I usually respond by asking them what they think. I'm not so sure they're looking for answers from me.

Their answers most often make sense. So I tell them, "That makes sense."

If they want to think some more about it, they will. And I'll listen. It's great fun. :sun:

[Harmony]

That's a good way of describing " in the box" Ernie, in your above post. It helps one mentally visualise that portion of reality most see and interact with in everyday life.


Looking outside the box, as many are starting to explore, is kind of like a cell in our body that has now become aware that there are other cells in our body with different functions, but each is depedant on the other. When that happens our expansion opens doors to a whole new way of looking at things. On a larger scale, we explore our solar system and our Universe. Our decsions and choices change and the conseqences of actions on the whole become more apparent. :shooting star:

I can remember as a kid, playing with the thought experiment of how we as individuals are possibly cells within a larger being.

And then playing the inversion of that thought experiment. How do our cells experience their existence within the context of the larger physical being of our body?

And then incorporating these ideas into the thought of souls, and Spirit. Orders of creation?

There are so many perspectives to expand upon. But one thing I discovered in the process of all of this, is that “Where ever I go, there I am.”

I remember one afernoon when my Mom, Granny and Aunt were laughing and laughing. And there was a repeated phrase, “There you are” or “There you go”. As a young kid, I was baffled. I couldn’t catch the humor of it. They were literally rolling and crying from laughter.

There’s this one point about creation that I find fascinating. Every being in creation experiences itself as if it were the center of it all.

I think Seth talked about this in “The Nature of Personal Reality”. The spider admiring the artful beauty of it’s web at the center of its universe. He spoke of Units of Consciousness. I think that fits in with this Harmony, what do you think?

A friend shared with me an experience she once had that’s related to this. She wasn’t into this sort of thinking. She was very down-to-earth, practical, and frankly impatient with conversations of spiritual or metaphyscial nature. So, I was greatly surprised when she told me of how one time, she was watching a bee fly into and out of daffodils. Suddenly, she was experiencing herself from the perspective of the bee. She described to me of how when the bee flew into a flower, her whole field of vision was yellow.

I think about this sometimes. She was actually, intellectually, closed-minded to this sort of experience. And yet, she had the experience regardless of what her intellect thought of it.

Also, she didn’t experience the flower as the bee does, she experienced the perspective of the bee, but from within her own sense of herself.

Perhaps, this is a box? I’m not sure how we can think outside the center of our “I”.

Where we go, there we are.

Your thoughts Edina are nice to read. It feels nice to just explore and look at things from all different angles and perspectives, it brings a fuller understanding.

It seems each being is so unique in their journey and if one asks questions, somehow answers seem to come somehow if we look close enough. I have to say I have not had the opportunity to read all the books most have, just touched on them a little here and there and a little familier with subjects you have nentioned. My life has been so full I just had no time and little money to afford many books, but when I had just a little saved I would invest in something that was interesting (usually a spiritual question) that I felt I needed to explore, like a stepping stone in life rather than the be all end all approach.

Life can bring some hard lessons and later it is much easier to see what those lessons were. Not hard as in a punishment for some other bad life, but more like a huge challenge that you would never have gone along with if you were asked to participate at the time it happened :bigsmile:

I remember seeing the stars and universe like parts of a very large being, I must have been very young before grade school so I have no idea what brought that on. I can think back from when I was about 1 and still remember what I was thinking inside that very small body, without words yet, it is very strange how real commnicaton must work before we are "taught" to use words etc. in this life.