Real UFO footage or CGI?

[mojo]

Its an amazing clip if real, dropping orbs...

ARPUc2cTSU0

[section9]

This is such a steaming pile of merde.

SecureTeam should have put this out. You can tell how they overlaid the voices from different videos in a painful attempt to add "authenticity".

A sad bit of hoaxing.

[DeDukshyn]

"It's orange! It's Orange!" -- the object is pure white ...

To add to section9's instant dismissal - I've heard that audio before on a different UFO vid.

[Kevan]

Why??

Why do they travel all across the universe to our blue planet and do nice tricks like that in our atmosphere only to be filmed by a potato?

[p+52]

Spent most of last week hanging out with the crew from the Nimitz and Princeton. After really talking to them about the reality of what they witnessed I realized that videos like these don't carry as much weight as they used to. The reality of the subject goes beyond these cell phone camera shots. These could be CGI, they could be real, who knows.

It's time to focus on where the phenomenon is today, what may be public (or hidden) agendas. Who are likely the key players with knowledge and how can we research them. What are the experiencers saying today.

At the UFO Megacon conference, Melinda Leslie (a good friend) reminded me of her talk at the MUFON Marin Sonoma. She has compiled very late-breaking information and is in communication with Jim Semivan, formerly the number 3 at the CIA -currently with the TTSA. This is one opportunity to at least get up to speed about the experiencer phenomenon. I highly recommend!

http://mufonmarinsonoma.com/?page_id=50&fbclid=IwAR0nOFgTfBiUhsrKXlejBbXrTPYiUb9hvHoQgg37O3Qm4hwSrtnwUkI3_X8

Photos: Me with Kevin Day, Richard Doty, Gary Voorhis, Jason Turner

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[conk]

Why??

Why do they travel all across the universe to our blue planet and do nice tricks like that in our atmosphere only to be filmed by a potato?

Hey! That is potatoically incorrect!

[Intranuclear]

Well said p+52.
Learning happens regardless, meaning that whether data is good or bad, there is some learning happening. Falsely labeling data leads to "bad" learning. So clearly, all one has to do to corrupt the learning process is to introduce "bad" data.
Who benefits from this? --- I would guess those who benefit from good data for whatever purpose and then poison it for others so that only they stay in the lead/control. I can't imagine it is EVER for the benefit for any but themselves.
This leads to the next question.
How to ensure good data?
My experience suggests that one can never rely on incorruptible data just as one can never rely on some web-site to stay secure forever.
Experiencers can easily be tampered and interfered with, so it seems the road to understanding will simply take a long time with lots of pitfalls and fights.
And not fighting is likely not an answer either.

Suggestions?

[DaveToo]

I can think of at least two reasons for someone introducing a video like this.

1. A shameless attempt to mock/ridicule/confuse those studying UFO's.
2. A deliberate attempt to create division and infighting among those studying UFO's.

[DeDukshyn]

Why??

Why do they travel all across the universe to our blue planet and do nice tricks like that in our atmosphere only to be filmed by a potato?

Reminded me of a Mitch Hedberg joke ... "I think Bigfoot is blurry, that's the problem. It's not the photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry, and that's extra scary to me. There's a large, out-of-focus monster roaming the countryside. Run, he's fuzzy, get out of here!"

[DeDukshyn]

I can think of at least two reasons for someone introducing a video like this.

1. A shameless attempt to mock/ridicule/confuse those studying UFO's.
2. A deliberate attempt to create division and infighting among those studying UFO's.

Those are just the conspiracy therorists reasonings ...

The reality is 90% of them are just learners in visual effects trying to see what they can do and if they can trick people with it - if people are fooled, the evaluate their VFX skills as good. Sometimes its just a student project - like that Golden Eagle that tried to snatch that kid in a park in Toronto - had quite a people fooled, but the artists can out and fessed up that it was all just an art project.

[DaveToo]

I can think of at least two reasons for someone introducing a video like this.

1. A shameless attempt to mock/ridicule/confuse those studying UFO's.
2. A deliberate attempt to create division and infighting among those studying UFO's.

Those are just the conspiracy therorists reasonings ...

The reality is 90% of them are just learners in visual effects trying to see what they can do and if they can trick people with it - if people are fooled, the evaluate their VFX skills as good. Sometimes its just a student project - like that Golden Eagle that tried to snatch that kid in a park in Toronto - had quite a people fooled, but the artists can out and fessed up that it was all just an art project.


"trying to see what they can do and if they can trick people with it"

That would fall into Category 1. above.

[DeDukshyn]

I can think of at least two reasons for someone introducing a video like this.

1. A shameless attempt to mock/ridicule/confuse those studying UFO's.
2. A deliberate attempt to create division and infighting among those studying UFO's.

Those are just the conspiracy therorists reasonings ...

The reality is 90% of them are just learners in visual effects trying to see what they can do and if they can trick people with it - if people are fooled, the evaluate their VFX skills as good. Sometimes its just a student project - like that Golden Eagle that tried to snatch that kid in a park in Toronto - had quite a people fooled, but the artists can out and fessed up that it was all just an art project.


"trying to see what they can do and if they can trick people with it"

That would fall into Category 1. above.

Nope ... these people that I refer to have no intent for that. It's about them and finding ways to have confidence in their skills (its about them -- not you or others) -- many people doing this are going to college or University or are on their own learning to accomplish vfx to further a career. They could care less if you felt mocked or ridiculed - that is an emotional reaction that someone who felt tricked because they believed outright in the first place would feel.

These people are not the same people that try to mock and ridicule people trying to study UFOs. A small handful of those people actually do exist and their motivation is to try to mess with people who want to explore alternative beliefs, or they are guided by agencies that seek social engineering of sorts ... but that's not the 90% I am referring to, but is in group one you referred to.

Not everything is a conspiracy. If you remove the feelings of personal insult, the view of the world becomes much more clear - and far less nefarious.

I am a semi pro photographer, videographer, 3d animation and VFX artist, so I do brush shoulders with like minded people - I'm not just saying this for the sake of arguing.

Edit: Remember all the "giant skeleton" photos we were seeing being spread through alt media a few years back -- almost every one of these photos was part of an art project that was no secret at all. It was the conspiracy theorists who took that and ran with it without any basic fact checking. The artists couldn't have prevented that from happening if they wanted to. Recall also how burned everyone felt after they had been "tricked" into believe these were real photos. They created the hoax themselves out of something that was never a hoax, then blamed the artists as "hoaxers" so they wouldn't feel so stupid. True story - it really happened like this.

[Intranuclear]

Not sure "tricking" people is their agenda. I mean religions do that just fine.
Ultimately, all one has to do is question question and question things. This technique works extremely well and allows one to see one's assumptions and misconceptions.
I can't imagine that pouring truth into one's throat leads to enlightenment.
Enlightenment must be earned and I imagine it can be painful at times.
Even if the video is totally bogus, does it offer anything of value to a researcher?
Without getting sources and cameras and viewpoints used, one can simply ignore and move on.
No need to waste time believing whether it is real or not.

If God burns a bush and he is not there to corroborate the act, who gives a damn?!

[DaveToo]

I can think of at least two reasons for someone introducing a video like this.

1. A shameless attempt to mock/ridicule/confuse those studying UFO's.
2. A deliberate attempt to create division and infighting among those studying UFO's.

Those are just the conspiracy therorists reasonings ...

The reality is 90% of them are just learners in visual effects trying to see what they can do and if they can trick people with it - if people are fooled, the evaluate their VFX skills as good. Sometimes its just a student project - like that Golden Eagle that tried to snatch that kid in a park in Toronto - had quite a people fooled, but the artists can out and fessed up that it was all just an art project.


"trying to see what they can do and if they can trick people with it"

That would fall into Category 1. above.

Nope ... these people that I refer to have no intent for that. It's about them and finding ways to have confidence in their skills (its about them -- not you or others) -- many people doing this are going to college or University or are on their own learning to accomplish vfx to further a career. They could care less if you felt mocked or ridiculed - that is an emotional reaction that someone who felt tricked because they believed outright in the first place would feel.

These people are not the same people that try to mock and ridicule people trying to study UFOs. A small handful of those people actually do exist and their motivation is to try to mess with people who want to explore alternative beliefs, or they are guided by agencies that seek social engineering of sorts ... but that's not the 90% I am referring to, but is in group one you referred to.

Not everything is a conspiracy. If you remove the feelings of personal insult, the view of the world becomes much more clear - and far less nefarious.



I understand exactly what you are saying.

The primary reason these people ("The reality is 90% of them are just learners in visual effects ") do this
is because of what you stated: "trying to see what they can do and if they can trick people with it".

Allow me then to add a third category:

1. A shameless attempt to mock/ridicule/confuse those studying UFO's.
2. A deliberate attempt to create division and infighting among those studying UFO's.
3. An exercise to further develop visual effect skills and also trick people with it at the same time (with no conspiratorial motives whatsoever).

[DeDukshyn]

I can think of at least two reasons for someone introducing a video like this.

1. A shameless attempt to mock/ridicule/confuse those studying UFO's.
2. A deliberate attempt to create division and infighting among those studying UFO's.

Those are just the conspiracy therorists reasonings ...

The reality is 90% of them are just learners in visual effects trying to see what they can do and if they can trick people with it - if people are fooled, the evaluate their VFX skills as good. Sometimes its just a student project - like that Golden Eagle that tried to snatch that kid in a park in Toronto - had quite a people fooled, but the artists can out and fessed up that it was all just an art project.


"trying to see what they can do and if they can trick people with it"

That would fall into Category 1. above.

Nope ... these people that I refer to have no intent for that. It's about them and finding ways to have confidence in their skills (its about them -- not you or others) -- many people doing this are going to college or University or are on their own learning to accomplish vfx to further a career. They could care less if you felt mocked or ridiculed - that is an emotional reaction that someone who felt tricked because they believed outright in the first place would feel.

These people are not the same people that try to mock and ridicule people trying to study UFOs. A small handful of those people actually do exist and their motivation is to try to mess with people who want to explore alternative beliefs, or they are guided by agencies that seek social engineering of sorts ... but that's not the 90% I am referring to, but is in group one you referred to.

Not everything is a conspiracy. If you remove the feelings of personal insult, the view of the world becomes much more clear - and far less nefarious.



I understand exactly what you are saying.

The primary reason these people ("The reality is 90% of them are just learners in visual effects ") do this
is because of what you stated: "trying to see what they can do and if they can trick people with it".

Allow me then to add a third category:

1. A shameless attempt to mock/ridicule/confuse those studying UFO's.
2. A deliberate attempt to create division and infighting among those studying UFO's.
3. An exercise to further develop visual effect skills and also trick people with it at the same time (with no conspiratorial motives whatsoever).

lol ... fair enough. :)

[Intranuclear]

One absolutely cannot trust videos in any shape, way or form.
For example, here is an Adobe After Effects new feature that allows one to easily remove objects from a video.
It does not require any real expertise in the tool, only to enclose the unwanted areas with the select tool and run...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=81&v=25ltIoHtiO4

An observant viewer might detect some artifacts, but otherwise it is pretty "cool".

[Kevan]

Here is the original in HD, give's away that it is a fake (it is just an overexposed picture with some added orbs):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eKP7Z0XtIc

[p+52]

RE:
I can think of at least two reasons for someone introducing a video like this.

1. A shameless attempt to mock/ridicule/confuse those studying UFO's.
2. A deliberate attempt to create division and infighting among those studying UFO's.

Let me add a 3rd:

3, YouTube click bait.

[mojo]

All great points above about why people might hoax. Personally as a videographer & filming unknowns never considered monetizing videos or using catchy phrases for click bait. The skywatching itself became a passion which was much more a reward than any fake video. But fortunately over time the experiences continued and now provides an archive with similar visual affects with aerial and near encounters. this has provided a history of continuity as well as further analyzing past footage and finding more awesome nuggets. In fact last year I reached out to the UFO community to professionally analyze the footage with better software but no luck so far...

The fact that people would create CGI is upsetting enough and hurts the authentic stuff. If one tries to submit authentic it doesnt end with being labeled a hoaxer by some, the attacks from shills and trolls never ends or even envy from others. If I could recommend to anyone interested in filming would be to save the footage until the experience is over and send it to someone that has more public exposure like Richard Dolan...
Here is the link to attempt to further analyze video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFgFRMNYbW4

[DeDukshyn]

All great points above about why people might hoax. Personally as a videographer & filming unknowns never considered monetizing videos or using catchy phrases for click bait. The skywatching itself became a passion which was much more a reward than any fake video. But fortunately over time the experiences continued and now provides an archive with similar visual affects with aerial and near encounters. this has provided a history of continuity as well as further analyzing past footage and finding more awesome nuggets. In fact last year I reached out to the UFO community to professionally analyze the footage with better software but no luck so far...

The fact that people would create CGI is upsetting enough and hurts the authentic stuff. If one tries to submit authentic it doesnt end with being labeled a hoaxer by some, the attacks from shills and trolls never ends or even envy from others. If I could recommend to anyone interested in filming would be to save the footage until the experience is over and send it to someone that has more public exposure like Richard Dolan...
Here is the link to attempt to further analyze video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFgFRMNYbW4


Unfortunately the lure of creating a "youtube business" means doing whatever it takes to try to get "views" and "likes" -- that is secondarily the motivation - these people also could care less if you feel "tricked" or "manipulated" these thoughts even don't enter their mind ... "more views" is the only thing on their mind - not about how somebodies feeling might get hurt - they could care less. really.

The perceived "Trolls" are often people like me outing obvious faked videos - suddenly someone doesn't like the fact that I have the knowledge to spot a fake video, and so they turn on me and now I am the evil "troll" fighting against the "conspiracy theorists" and trying to make them look stupid, when all I am trying to do is point them in the right direction so they can stop being fooled and maybe learn a little about what I am trying to say so they won't be so easily fooled.

I even have to battle that here on Avalon -- the number of times I have been attacked here just for coming up with some sound debunking facts, called a "hater" or a "non-believer" can't be counted on my hands - at the same time I am a believer and have had my own sightings that I cannot debunk - I just want to assist people in being able to discern more easily - that's my only goal.

So you really have to consider this dynamic in the "conspiracy theory circles" - as I mentioned before about the giant skeletons Photoshop contest -no one was ever trying to be nefarious or 'hoax" people with that -- the people who spread 90% of all that nonsense was the conspiracy theorists themselves -- but that doesn't fit into the "us vs them" dichotomy that tends to exist firmly in peoples minds that drives them to attack artists as "hoaxers" when the only ones to blame for that was the conspiracy "theorists" who can't do basic research before believing and trying to convince others of something being true.

I say, (generally, not to mojo specifically), remove that dichotomy from your minds - or at least apply it appropriately, it is only harmful and reductive to being able to see clearly. We all just want to see clearly right? Consider that 90% of the "fog" exists within ourselves.

It's not an "us vs them" scenario -- it is all a rather complex dynamic that the "us vs them" attitude hides under a veil of justifying emotional reaction.

[mojo]

Good reply DeDukshyn, and sorry that people attacked your honest efforts to analyze. I've always appreciated you and other folks assessing the video clips posted on the forum and providing feedback, I never take offense when honest analysis/assessment is given...

[Intranuclear]

There is another problem with UFO videos that is not simply made by hoaxers..
Even if the original video is legit, once posted, others (whomever job it is to monitor such things) can take it, poison it, then re-upload it. Thus it can look fake and now one cannot trust any of the originals.
This act is a conspiracy and a very good way to ensure doubt so that what is sensitive remains uncertain.
This is why it is pointless to hunt YouTube UFO videos for legitimate ones unless you already KNOW it is legitimate.

There are of course many legitimate videos, but the sensitive ones are like finding a diamond in the sewer.