Alberta 51 Movement

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Today I learned that as Ottawa continues to advance an open borders policy in Canada, a growing number of Albertans are looking to dissolve their borders with Canada and unite them... with those of the United States. Thus the "Alberta 51" movement.

CBC Audio interview here -- Must listen! (http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2659271776/)

If you Albertans are anything like Montanans, then you'd most certainly be welcome aboard. You're already more American than Los Angeles, anyway. And as a constitutionally-protected state, you'll have more freedom to self-government, and you can have all the guns and free speech you want! Any and all gender pronouns welcome, at your sole discretion!


51st State May Come From a Place You Might Not Expect

http://appalachianmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/a.jpg

According to a February 2019 poll from Angus Reid, approximately 50% of Albertans would support secession from Canada. This number is up 30% from a generation ago and the conditions which have created these views are projected to only worsen.

In Alberta, the Canadian Province located just north of Montana, there is a strong feeling that the national government “back east” in Ottawa is using them much like the British Crown used distant colonies two centuries ago. Rich in farmland and natural resources, the Alberta economy has become increasingly reliant upon its natural reserves and oil and gas production, putting it at odds with a committed “green nation” such as Canada.

Bordered to its left is the Province of British Columbia, Canada’s bastion of Pacific liberalism. Residents of Alberta say that the government of British Columbia refuses to cooperate with Alberta’s natural resources industry and is blocking all pipeline production; a move they say is hindering the Alberta economy and driving the costs of getting oil to the market by about $6 per barrel.

Industry experts also say back in the east, where the overwhelming majority of Canadians live, the federation government’s stringent environmental regulations also prohibits the province from reaching its full potential.

A much larger issue, however, is the subject of demographics and numbers.

The dirty secret that few people are talking about is that Canadians simply aren’t having children like they used to and the nation is aging at an alarming rate.

According to Peter Zeihan, who authored the book, Accidental Superpower, Canada has a massive population in their late-50s and early 60s. These individuals are nearing retirement and the workforce is shifting from having a lot of tax payers to a lot of tax takers.

In Alberta, however, this story is quite different. The province has a much younger population and while Canada’s demographic numbers as a whole more closely resemble Japan or Germany, Alberta’s age is more reminiscent to the United States.

Due to this factor alone, Zeihan argues that Alberta is subsidizing the national government at about $27 billion annually and that in the next few years this could climb to $80 billion; according to the author’s figures, by 2020 the number will exceed $20,000 per person, $40,000 per tax payer.

“The core issue is pretty simple. While the Québécois – and to a slightly lesser degree the rest of Canada – now need Alberta to maintain their standard of living, the Albertans now need not to be a part of Canada in order to maintain theirs,” he writes.

[...]

According to Zeihan, the United States would welcome the Province of Alberta with open arms and upon its admission into the Union, Alberta would become the per capita richest state in the country .

The influx of taxable capital and GDP would boost the United States’ already unquestioned place of being the world’s greatest economy.

In exchange, access to America’s 327 million person strong market would provide investors and business owners in Alberta with a market that is nearly ten times the size of Canada’s 37 million residents.

[B]Heavily rural, the protections guaranteed by the Bill of Rights greatly appeals to many in Alberta who pride themselves on having an independent spirit.

http://appalachianmagazine.com/2019/04/10/51st-state-may-come-from-a-place-you-might-not-expect/

For any Albertans reading this, consider this carefully: by 2036, as much as 40% of working-age people in Canada are going to immigrants (https://globalnews.ca/news/3204538/what-canadas-population-will-look-like-in-2036/), largely Muslims from the Middle East and Chinese, and these concentrated in eastern cities with an increasing voice in your national politics. With native Canadian births decreasing and immigration constantly increasing, your country is going to be unrecognizable by the time you're old, split somewhere between the political traditions of China (or Taiwan?) and an Islamic theocracy. Whatever pride you have in being Canadian, Ottawa is going to be dismantling everything that the old Canada ever stood for, short of some dramatic reversal of policies, which doesn't seem to be on the immediate horizon. Maybe that will change in the future, but even then, many of the social changes that have already taken place are going to be with you for many generations at a minimum.

You already have more in common with Montana and Idaho than you do with Toronto. And if you take Montana or Idaho as examples, you can see how minimalist government can be in the United States, and how willing Americans are to accommodate your industriousness without overly burdensome taxes and regulations. Most Americans forget that Montana and Idaho even exist, except for oil exports, they are hassled so little by the feds. Things would be very peaceful.

[Didgevillage]

Vive l'Alberta libre!

Will population, labor, and economy be the only reasons for independence/merger?
What about culture and civilization?

I was chatting with a cab driver in Russia about the Muslims in the country. He was saying the Tatars are no problem as they are an integral part of Russia after hundreds of years coexistence from the very beginning of the Russian Empire, while Central Asians (Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Tajiks, etc.) are a different breed of Muslims who could pose potential problems.

In this regard Germany is committing a suicide under a very questionable leadership by Merkel

All bad things seem to come from Ottawa and Washington DC as well.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Will population, labor, and economy be the only reasons for independence/merger?
What about culture and civilization?

Culture and civilization were what I was referring to with the mass migration going on up there, but the economic aspect alone is monstrous.

If you listen to the CBC interview, the upcoming generation of Albertans are going to be facing $40,000 in taxes each per year just to support the aging Canadians throughout the rest of the country, who aren't having enough children to keep everyone else paying sufficient taxes into the system. (Cough cough socialism cough cough....)

That is more than many people make in a year total, so obviously that is not a sustainable situation, and something is going to break somewhere along the line. Since Alberta has relatively little say within the British Commonwealth's Canadian government, the intense economic pressure caused by government debt alone may end up making them reconsider their rejection of our 1776 offer. They'll have little other recourse since they have relatively little voice in the Canadian legislature, and that voice will be increasing drowned out by immigrants with foreign cultures and politics. We asked Canada to join us in rebelling against the British Empire back then, they just didn't take us up on the offer. Probably too busy chopping wood to stay warm or something. :noidea:

[Ernie Nemeth]

50% want to stay, did you mention that?

I would not even step foot in the USA anymore. But you are right there are many who would like to break away from Canada. That's only because every time there is a Liberal government in power the west cries bloody murder and the crazies come out in full force.

As far as the muslimification of Canada, yup bad policy created by the many minority workers hired by the government. They are now changing the fundamental nature of our country - they want their relatives to come over from their old countries and they have created the rhetoric of an aging population as the excuse. Instead of creating an incentive for normal Canadians to have more children, they went the route of importing more of their countrymen. Arguably a far more expensive choice but we do get diversification as a by-product so I guess it all works out...

[A Voice from the Mountains]

50% want to stay, did you mention that?

I mean, when 50% of anybody wants something, it's kind of obvious that the implication is that 50% don't want something.

Did you read this part?: "According to a February 2019 poll from Angus Reid, approximately 50% of Albertans would support secession from Canada. This number is up 30% from a generation ago and the conditions which have created these views are projected to only worsen."

The next obvious question one might ask is, what happens in a democratic society when a clear majority of the public want something and begin political campaigns for it?


I would not even step foot in the USA anymore. But you are right there are many who would like to break away from Canada. That's only because every time there is a Liberal government in power the west cries bloody murder and the crazies come out in full force.

So don't worry about it, because this only applies to Albertans. There are many parts of Canada I wouldn't to join the US, any more than I would want Puerto Rico to be granted statehood and representation in Congress. :P


As far as the muslimification of Canada, yup bad policy created by the many minority workers hired by the government. They are now changing the fundamental nature of our country - they want their relatives to come over from their old countries and they have created the rhetoric of an aging population as the excuse. Instead of creating an incentive for normal Canadians to have more children, they went the route of importing more of their countrymen. Arguably a far more expensive choice but we do get diversification as a by-product so I guess it all works out...

So once your country looks like Iraq or Iran, just remind yourself that you never want to step foot in the US ever again. Considering which ideologies were responsible for implementing these policies in the first place, and how most Americans feel about it, the sentiment you have is probably mutual.

If the current trajectory continues, being squeezed by a collapsing socialized medical system, and increasingly living in an Islamic theocracy, will become a much more bizarre and surreal scenario for many Canadians than simply joining the US and protecting themselves and their provincial (or then state) sovereignty from all of that nonsense.

It's also not as dramatic as another possible future scenario, of an Islamic theocracy in Canada in 2040 or beyond eventually forcing US intervention across the northern border.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Totally agree with you there. My insult to America is moot, I know. I merely find it odd that we cannot get across the border without intense scrutiny while the southern border is wide open for any and all. It would be easier for me to fly to Mexico and drive across the border from there. And since cannabis has been legalized I do not feel safe crossing the border.

There are a core of Albertans who always have wanted to join the states, mostly centered in the Calgary area and south. Edmonton was usually moderate. And the mountainous regions and north usually prefer forming their own country. Lived in all three areas and that is how I see it from experience. Unless the sentiment is changing in the last two decades...oops...three...yikes I'm getting old.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I merely find it odd that we cannot get across the border without intense scrutiny while the southern border is wide open for any and all.

Figure that one out and you'll also figure out why Canada is importing so many Muslims from the Middle East. ;)

Or this poster on the right, from the German Green Party:

https://imgoat.com/uploads/b163727917/210004.jpg

"TOD DEM WEIßEN, DEUTSCHEN MANN"

Plug that into Google translate and see what you get. That's a real German political poster in the year 2019.

🤡🌎

[DeDukshyn]

 

I thought the muslims were all coming from the middle east to escape the destruction the american invasions has had on their countries? Afghanistan (Americans fighting what they created), Iraq War (based on lies), Libya (wanted off the US currency stranglehold), Syria (another access to Russia that US wants to control like Afghanistan).

If some invading force basically destroyed and took over my country, I'd want to migrate too to somewhere friendly like Canada too.

So are you asking us to be a part of that? Nice one.

But maybe the "gouge you till death" private healthcare, and amazing education system will be the clincher, we are after-all, talking about Albertans. ;) All you'd need to do is get that Keystone XL pipeline built and they will bend over for you all day long. ;)

Disclaimer: I do live in Alberta :)

[A Voice from the Mountains]

 
I thought the muslims were all coming from the middle east to escape the destruction the american invasions has had on their countries? Afghanistan (Americans fighting what they created), Iraq War (based on lies), Libya (wanted off the US currency stranglehold), Syria (another access to Russia that US wants to control like Afghanistan).

I complained about all of those things too, but it doesn't mean I want to live with people who think Sharia law is great.

By the way, the Canadian government went with us to all of those places, so you're taking in the peoples whose homes you helped destroy, too.


If some invading force basically destroyed and took over my country, I'd want to migrate too to somewhere friendly like Canada too.

The globalists running Canada are only friendly to Islam because it serves their political agendas. Mention the violence going on in South Africa and suddenly Canadians aren't so friendly anymore.


But maybe the "gouge you till death" private healthcare, and amazing education system will be the clincher

I made a lengthy post here about the miracles of the Canadian healthcare system (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94907-Trump-is-NOT-the-answer&p=1283183&viewfull=1#post1283183), including bloated prices (even higher generics than in the US), months-long waits that could prove lethal, lack of innovation, etc., almost all cited from mainstream Canadian sources, but no one from Canada seems to want to touch it. Pesky things like that just get a lot of eye-rolling, self-righteous huffing and puffing, etc. etc.

[DeDukshyn]

 
I thought the muslims were all coming from the middle east to escape the destruction the american invasions has had on their countries? Afghanistan (Americans fighting what they created), Iraq War (based on lies), Libya (wanted off the US currency stranglehold), Syria (another access to Russia that US wants to control like Afghanistan).

I complained about all of those things too, but it doesn't mean I want to live with people who think Sharia law is great.

By the way, the Canadian government went with us to all of those places, so you're taking in the peoples whose homes you helped destroy, too.


If some invading force basically destroyed and took over my country, I'd want to migrate too to somewhere friendly like Canada too.

The globalists running Canada are only friendly to Islam because it serves their political agendas. Mention the violence going on in South Africa and suddenly Canadians aren't so friendly anymore.


But maybe the "gouge you till death" private healthcare, and amazing education system will be the clincher

I made a lengthy post here about the miracles of the Canadian healthcare system (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94907-Trump-is-NOT-the-answer&p=1283183&viewfull=1#post1283183), including bloated prices (even higher generics than in the US), months-long waits that could prove lethal, lack of innovation, etc., almost all cited from mainstream Canadian sources, but no one from Canada seems to want to touch it. Pesky things like that just get a lot of eye-rolling, self-righteous huffing and puffing, etc. etc.

I guess that's how you see it then :) BTW for Libya, Syria, and Iraq, we had no troops, only a dozen or so (well very low numbers anyway) special ops CSIS types, because you guys need to hire the best. Afghanistan saw a few Canadian troops, well, what your guys didn't manage to kill in so called "friendly fire" incidents, lol. :) Don't make me post the articles. :)

[DeDukshyn]

I merely find it odd that we cannot get across the border without intense scrutiny while the southern border is wide open for any and all.

Figure that one out and you'll also figure out why Canada is importing so many Muslims from the Middle East. ;)

Or this poster on the right, from the German Green Party:

https://imgoat.com/uploads/b163727917/210004.jpg

"TOD DEM WEIßEN, DEUTSCHEN MANN"

Plug that into Google translate and see what you get. That's a real German political poster in the year 2019.

🤡🌎

Did you translate the other poster? The two posters together is an anti-Nazi message - HOW DARE THEY??!!! ... you see, there's this useful thing called "context" ... :)

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Did you translate the other poster? The two posters together is an anti-Nazi message - HOW DARE THEY??!!!

Yes, because real National Socialists are clearly running for office in Germany right now. Kill them all, then. :rolleyes:

[DeDukshyn]

Did you translate the other poster? The two posters together is an anti-Nazi message - HOW DARE THEY??!!!

Yes, because real National Socialists are clearly running for office in Germany right now. Kill them all, then. :rolleyes:

Well, to be fair, white supremacy groups are on the rise in Germany ... so yeah, the posters do make some sense , again within context: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/world/europe/germany-far-right-neo-nazi.html

[chancy]

Hello Everyone:

This is GREAT! The Alberta 51 Movement! I find it fascinating how the majority of this thread is utter non sense.

My family has lived in Alberta since 1904. Before Alberta became a province.

I have never heard of this movement called "Alberta51.
Of course that doesn't mean there isn't one.

There is a movement in Alberta to separate from Canada completely and have a country unto itself called Alberta the country.
Most people laugh about it but it's quite serious since our federal government is in the east and they only care about getting more cash from Alberta.
I believe this is a ploy like Quebec has been doing since confederation to get freebies from the federal government and the other provinces. Quebec will NEVER SEPARATE. It's too lucrative to bluff for cash.

Back to the Alberta 51 Movement. There must only be a couple of people in it or I would have heard about it along with the other millions of people in Alberta.

By the way I live in southern Alberta and find it convenient to go to Montana since they have no sales tax either. Montana would simply laugh if Alberta wanted to be in the USA. The majority of Albertans would simply laugh about this ploy also.

IF you live in Alberta you are a PROUD Albertan most of the time.
IF you live outside Alberta you would be like everyone that loves Texas and doesn't live there.

Please keep the facts straight if you are going to discuss Alberta. There's tooooooo many lies going on today with the provincial election being held today

Welcome to anyone that wants to come and visit! It's a great place to live and raise a family.

chancy

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Well, to be fair, white supremacy groups are on the rise in Germany ... so yeah, the posters do make some sense , again within context: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/world/europe/germany-far-right-neo-nazi.html

In a year where people like you openly defend posters calling for the death of white German men, no matter how you justify it, you can expect people to stand up and resist their own destruction. You can call them white supremacists for defending their own people and culture if you want, but calling them names isn't going to help anyone or make you feel cute anymore when SHTF and life gets real.

And traditionally, people who are considered traitors to their own people are dealt with first, because the danger within is considered more dangerous than the danger without. This is exactly how the real Nazis came to power in the first place, by the way. Just look at the degeneracy of the Weimar Republic. That's what the Germans were reacting to when they elected Hitler.



I have never heard of this movement called "Alberta51.
Of course that doesn't mean there isn't one.

Considering that Canadian national news is reporting on it, and I'm sure they have no love lost for the conservatives in Alberta, the reporting against their own interest says to me that they are concerned enough about it to finally be drawing public attention to it.

Many people are unaware of things until mass media alerts them to it. I'll leave it to you to figure out why that is. But according to their own polls, 50% of Albertans already favor secession from Canada. I'm sure less than that would go the extra step to entertaining joining the union, but Texas joined under similar circumstances after seceding from Mexico, and they've done fairly well for themselves since then. Mexicans risk their lives to get in now.

[DeDukshyn]

Well, to be fair, white supremacy groups are on the rise in Germany ... so yeah, the posters do make some sense , again within context: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/world/europe/germany-far-right-neo-nazi.html

In a year where people like you openly defend posters calling for the death of white German men, ...

I didn't defend anything. I noted that the one poster you singled out, was obviously part of the group of messages, which was an anti-nazi message. That's all that happened there, I'm afraid. But great imagination.




You can call them white supremacists for defending their own people and culture if you want, but calling them names isn't going to help anyone or make you feel cute anymore when SHTF and life gets real.

I was only calling the actual white supremacists, 'white supremacists'. Who did you think I was referring to? Are you a white supremacist?




And traditionally, people who are considered traitors to their own people are dealt with first, because the danger within is considered more dangerous than the danger without.

I guess I better be scared now ... I am certainly a traitor, as you imply. :shock:

[A Voice from the Mountains]

In a year where people like you openly defend posters calling for the death of white German men, ...

I didn't defend anything. I noted that the one poster you singled out, was obviously part of the group of messages, which was an anti-nazi message. That's all that happened there, I'm afraid. But great imagination.

So you think an "anti-nazi message" (when Nazis aren't even running for office, and neither are "white supremacists") justifies a poster that says "Death to white German men" or not?

To be clear, you think this is an acceptable message, in any context, or not?


I was only calling the actual white supremacists, 'white supremacists'. Who did you think I was referring to? Are you a white supremacist?

I probably am by your loose definition of the term, which apparently includes anyone who doesn't want death to all white German men.

There was a time, before leftists became insane, when "white supremacy" actually meant white people who believe that the white race is superior to all other races, believe it or not. Ancient history, I know.


I guess I better be scared now ... I am certainly a traitor, as you imply. :shock:

Canadians have never had much fight in them, if history is any indication, but in Europe, things are coming to a boil fairly rapidly, and it's not going to be pretty when violence finally does erupt over there.

Indiscriminately calling for the death of white men (and I know from your other posts here that you clearly have anti-white programming going on) is just about the exact opposite of what a sane person would be doing to de-escalate racial tensions.

[DeDukshyn]

In a year where people like you openly defend posters calling for the death of white German men, ...

I didn't defend anything. I noted that the one poster you singled out, was obviously part of the group of messages, which was an anti-nazi message. That's all that happened there, I'm afraid. But great imagination.

So you think an "anti-nazi message" (when Nazis aren't even running for office, and neither are "white supremacists") justifies a poster that says "Death to white German men" or not?

I didn't give any indication either way what I think on that despite you responding as though I had. I don't think any form of racism is appropriate at all (of which is rampant everywhere even here on Avalon - I don't appreciate one form of racism over another). But, as I said, that one ,message was taken out of context by you, all I did was seek to clarify the context. If one is selective in what the pull from context to make their point, it must be because it is felt the full truth alone isn't adequate to sway someones opinions ... when you need to try to sway someone's opinions by pulling things out of context, it reveals a bias against the full truth in th e message attempting to be conveyed, when there is no need.



To be clear, you think this is an acceptable message, in any context, or not?

To be clear, see above.




I was only calling the actual white supremacists, 'white supremacists'. Who did you think I was referring to? Are you a white supremacist?

I probably am by your loose definition of the term, which apparently includes anyone who doesn't want death to all white German men.

Is that what a "white supremecist" is? I didn't actual indicate any definition whatsoever, so we just have yours to go by here ... (I guess you would know so, yes you can answer that).




There was a time, before leftists became insane, when "white supremacy" actually meant white people who believe that the white race is superior to all other races, believe it or not. Ancient history, I know.

I guess I'm not up to speed ... what is the new definition again? I don't think many people know the definition has changed, please let us know the new one so we can be less offensive to your type.




Canadians have never had much fight in them, if history is any indication, but in Europe, things are coming to a boil fairly rapidly, and it's not going to be pretty when violence finally does erupt over there.

That's what Holland said ...
You should come to Canada some time .. .make sure to visit the north ;) ... I'd pay money to see that.



Indiscriminately calling for the death of white men (and I know from your other posts here that you clearly have anti-white programming going on) is just about the exact opposite of what a sane person would be doing to de-escalate racial tensions.

Now you call me insane, programmed, and you say I am calling for the death of white men (I am white and mostly german, lol) ... so I see you are now at thepoint where you have reduced your participation in this discussion to using ad hominens :) Thanks for trying anyway ... its been a treat. :) :)

[A Voice from the Mountains]

So you think an "anti-nazi message" (when Nazis aren't even running for office, and neither are "white supremacists") justifies a poster that says "Death to white German men" or not?

I didn't give any indication either way what I think on that

Which says enough in itself. Whether or not you support the genocide of white people in their native European countries shouldn't be a question that you have to dodge, ever.


I don't think any form of racism is appropriate at all (of which is rampant everywhere even here on Avalon - I don't appreciate one form of racism over another).

Yeah, I think it's too late for that honestly. You just tried to justify the poster above by implying they only meant "Nazis," who aren't even running for office, as if that makes killing anyone okay anyway. You guys just paint everyone as a white supremacist and Nazi today and use it to justify your genocidal hatred, which is frankly getting completely out of hand and is only going to have a bad ending. I think it's absolutely disgusting that this kind of language is going around at all, let alone that someone would have the balls to actually defend it in any way whatsoever. A poster saying "Death to the white German man" is just being taken out of context because they only meant "Nazis"? This is clown world stuff.




There was a time, before leftists became insane, when "white supremacy" actually meant white people who believe that the white race is superior to all other races, believe it or not. Ancient history, I know.

I guess I'm not up to speed ... what is the new definition again?

You tell me, since I am apparently a white supremacist because I find a poster saying "Death to the white German man" offensive in any context.


Now you call me insane, programmed, and you say I am calling for the death of white men (I am white and mostly german, lol)

Most radicals saying genocidal stuff like what's on those posters today are white. That's the craziest thing about it.

If this kind of nonsense isn't clown-world programming then I don't know what is:

http://magaimg.net/img/7rbz.png

Every single day this variety of garbage is being injected into public discourse by people with genocidal intentions. Actual racially-motivating crimes are so few and far between that leftists have to complain about the "whiteness" of freaking libraries to keep the murderous outrage churning. Clown world. They won't stop until there is nothing left of our civilization.

[DeDukshyn]

... Actual racially-motivating crimes are so few and far between ...

That's my view as well. So what's all the rhetoric about again? We need to use hate to combat a lack of actual racially motivated crimes? You lost me there ...

Go on ...

[A Voice from the Mountains]

... Actual racially-motivating crimes are so few and far between ...

That's my view as well. So what's all the rhetoric about again? We need to use hate to combat a lack of actual racially motivated crimes? You lost me there ...

Go on ...

Hate of who? Those damned white German men?

That's the left's rhetoric, not mine.

[DeDukshyn]

... Actual racially-motivating crimes are so few and far between ...

That's my view as well. So what's all the rhetoric about again? We need to use hate to combat a lack of actual racially motivated crimes? You lost me there ...

Go on ...

Hate of who? Those damned white German men?

That's the left's rhetoric, not mine.

No, that's the rhetoric of anyone you just choose to project that onto. Who's your hate of and how is it helping? (we obviously all can see your hate - you wear it on your sleeve)



Edit: What is it that you think you have to offer this forum?

You don't offer anything science, nothing on spirituality (lol), nothing on the topic of UFOs, nothing on the topic of ancient civilizations, nothing on space travel, nothing on the topic of sustainable environment or environmental concerns, nothing on the topic of pollution or climate change (except where you think you can inject division politics into the conversation), nothing on technological advancements, nothing on healing ... You don't obviously don't read or learn anything from here ... and can't have any neutral discussion without projecting lies onto people who are trying to have an adult conversation with you.

Those are the topics on which this forum rides. The only thing you ever offer is divisive political rhetoric and attacking and, projecting, and manipulating the words of good members for the purpose of attacking them. All you efforts seek only to divide and cast a wedge between what you believe is true of others (which is questionable in itself) and that which you view of yourself.

Look at this thread for example, the entire OP and premise is one of divide - to cast light on and extend a perceived polarization. Then all the lies you put into my mouth then attacked (as you always do, real men with real facts don't need to stoop to those childish levels to get a point across , because the truth talks on its on - lies need to be supported with more lies).

You have been responsible for many good people quitting the forum, and you have made enemies out of a good number here. You do nothing but seek to carry out someone's (maybe your own) divide and conquer(lol) strategy ... Again, what are you contributing that isn't actually detrimental to this forum? The closest valid topic any of your hate rhetoric here would be social engineering, but we certainly don't need a political extremists point of view to have valuable and good discussions on that topic.


I genuinely ask this question to Bill Ryan and the mod team -- if you weigh out the division tactics, the sanity of many members, the leaving of several members, the constant gaslighting and projection of lies onto other members, the constant thread derailments that enable him to do so, the lack of participation in any topic that he can't use as a platform to project divisive rhetoric and attack on members ... what do you guys see in him that warrants his lack of legitimate offering and the disservice to the rest of the members he is solely providing here?

I don't get it ... so many good members banned for so much less, yet a right wing hate projecting extremist is allowed to stay and continue to use Avalon as platform for his political division tactics.

I would love to hear the mods or Bill's response ... PM me if further discussion is desired.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

No, that's the rhetoric of anyone you just choose to project that onto. Who's your hate of and how is it helping?

My ire is directed at the globalists and "progressives" stirring up all of this nonsense like the anti-white poster you were just defending on the previous page, and the alternative to complaining about it is to passively accepting it, which is doing nothing at all. Normal people have been passively accepting "progressive" policies for too long in the West, and it is destroying our entire civilization.

We just lost an 800+ year old world-famous cultural monument within the past week, that not even the Nazis or any other enemies of France were ever cruel enough to destroy, because of this kind of passive acceptance of "progressivism." Granted, the French have been rioting every weekend in the streets for months now, but it was too little too late to save themselves from permanent national damage.


The only thing you ever offer is divisive political rhetoric and attacking and, projecting, and manipulating the words of good members for the purpose of attacking them.

If I were going around cheerleading anti-white, anti-western propaganda and all the rest, I wouldn't exactly expect to see the loving side of people, or at least anyone who didn't share those same views. If your feelings about whites are any indication, you see things from a pretty "non-conventional" view, and you shouldn't be surprised that people promoting this kind of stuff are going to get pushback against their ideologies going forward. Most people in the West are actually still white and don't appreciate their entire race, culture, history, and ancestors being constantly pooped on by people who really have chips on their shoulders. I'm not talking just about this thread specifically but in your posts in general where you clearly think that Western civilization needs to be flagellating itself for a history of doing the exact same things that every other people on this planet have been doing since the beginning of recorded history.

Most people I talk to on this forum, I don't have such disagreements with, though I do have a lot of interest (but not exclusive interest) in history, politics, and economics. The people I do have disagreements with, appear to me to not be accustomed to having their ideas challenged at all.

If you can rationalize the problems you have with Western civilization into a logical argument, that would be great, but even if you could, it still wouldn't mean that everyone would have to agree with you. Unlike Islamic society, the modern West was founded on freedom of expression and open dialogues and debates, from the Greeks and Romans to the Protestant Reformation, Renaissance, and Enlightenment. That's what gives you the right to criticize Western civilization so much in the first place. Having an intense hatred for me is a poor reason for wanting to shut me up.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I like Voice because he is not afraid to say what is on his mind. I may not agree with him but it is refreshing to read honest commentary not catering or cow-towing to a party line.

In my estimation his views are essential to an unbiased forum truly concerned about truth - or spirituality.

It is not all about political correctness or accepted memes this forum has championed. Not everyone is part of the back-slapping crew.

But since it seems this forum is bent on homogeneity, perhaps it is best to just tell us what to think in no uncertain terms.

That way we can all be on the same page and be good little contributors.

Or just take it behind the scenes to the PM club - another method of circumventing honest and open debate.

Of course, Bill can veto us all...

[DeDukshyn]

I like Voice because he is not afraid to say what is on his mind. I may not agree with him but it is refreshing to read honest commentary not catering or cow-towing to a party line.

In my estimation his views are essential to an unbiased forum truly concerned about truth - or spirituality.

It is not all about political correctness or accepted memes this forum has championed. Not everyone is part of the back-slapping crew.

But since it seems this forum is bent on homogeneity, perhaps it is best to just tell us what to think in no uncertain terms.

That way we can all be on the same page and be good little contributors.

Or just take it behind the scenes to the PM club - another method of circumventing honest and open debate.

Of course, Bill can veto us all...

Righties like you would think that way, Ernie, Neo nazi's are looking for your types to validate their hatred so they can continue on destroying anything that might be positive or progressive in this country. The Nazi evil rose once before and is rising again because people like you stand there and support them by not constantly denouncing them. So yeah - you're part pf the problem of whats destroying this world ...








How did that feel Ernie? Do you believe that was a reasonable and valid response as part of this discussion on Avalon; would such a response have any positive impact on the discussion? Could you just imagine if we all treated each other this way here? I'm pretty sure if I kept that up, I'd be banned, no problem. So would you ... Yet almost every post penned in response that wasn't anything but full agreement with his twisted views gets that type of response from him ... almost every one. No other member could get away with that, yet that is almost entirely all there is on offer from him.

If someone thinks this is about opposing views or being "honest", please give your head a shake and try again ... this is very clearly not about that.

Let's say for some reason he gets this free pass to continue his BS, can we please at least force his forum name to be something like "yootoobetroll" ? Then at least people might know what to expect when engaging him. :)

[Ernie Nemeth]

Well Duk, you said it. My veiws are rarely appreciated either. So what?

And yes, he is combative. Again so what? Some are here to make friends and try very hard not to step on any toes.

Others have different agendas.

The fundamentals that most here believe to be true are not sacrosanct or established as true beyond argument. So why is it a surprise when some members do not accept those memes? They are just suppositions.

As for being a Nazi - even those here who really dont like me would not believe that about me. And as far as being a leftie - at one time I would have been proud to be one. Now, the left has been appropriated by self-serving, egotistical, uneducated and uninformed people with stars and fluffy clouds in thier eyes and in thier minds.

Although I am not a pragmatist, I am certainly not void of intelligence or logic.

Anyways, I always like your posts, so put that feather in your cap. Haha

[DeDukshyn]

...
Others have different agendas...

This is my issue here. I have a hard not determining that his only agenda is to **** on anyone who doesn't share his political views while some of his ideologies border on on white supremacy - at the very least extremism so far to the right he's around the bend. I'm not sure if Avalon needs people who have such strong political agendas (hence my criticality and questioning on this). If he would just stop being someone's political bitch and stop talking about politics I'm sure he could add value. That said, I will recognize that it looks like he's trying, and that helps.




Anyways, I always like your posts, so put that feather in your cap. Haha

I appreciate your views Ernie! Like many of mine I think that some of your just go misunderstood. And It helps that we can always and easily agree to disagree.


...
As for being a Nazi - even those here who really dont like me would not believe that about me. And as far as being a leftie - at one time I would have been proud to be one. Now, the left has been appropriated by self-serving, egotistical, uneducated and uninformed people with stars and fluffy clouds in thier eyes and in thier minds.

I don't entirely disagree with you here, but whatever happened to the base "left" values that made you proud to have those values? Did you abandon those values just because a group of people who once claimed those values abandoned theirs? Did the right steal those values? (lol) They have vanished, and people who said similar things to you have tossed them away ... were those values useless?

[Ernie Nemeth]

The values remain. But there is no longer a political class that upjolds responsible, humanitarian values.

I would not want to be associated with the insane policies of the left anymore. Especially in America, but Canada is not far behind as our government cow-tows (is this a word?) to the globalist.

I do not agree with so many of Trudeau's policies that I wonder how it has gotten this far out of hand.

And yes, I am as surprised as you that the Conservatives look better and better.

The NDP has gone off the rails with a leader who is simply unelectable. Sorry, but that is about as pragmatic a statement as I am capable of.

So what is left for me? (Cute pun)

There is no organization or group that holds my values anymore. Moderate left, with a healthy dose of common sense, is an unpalatable stance these days for some reason.

There really seems to be a polarizing effect going on in the world where politics is being sorted out not by ideologies but by psychology - the sane versus the insane.

I am not insane...

[DeDukshyn]

The values remain. But there is no longer a political class that upjolds responsible, humanitarian values.

I would not want to be associated with the insane policies of the left anymore. Especially in America, but Canada is not far behind as our government cow-tows (is this a word?) to the globalist.

I do not agree with so many of Trudeau's policies that I wonder how it has gotten this far out of hand.

And yes, I am as surprised as you that the Conservatives look better and better.

The NDP has gone off the rails with a leader who is simply unelectable. Sorry, but that is about as pragmatic a statement as I am capable of.

So what is left for me? (Cute pun)

There is no organization or group that holds my values anymore. Moderate left, with a healthy dose of common sense, is an unpalatable stance these days for some reason.

There really seems to be a polarizing effect going on in the world where politics is being sorted out not by ideologies but by psychology - the sane versus the insane.

I am not insane...

I think its up to people like us to ensure we always reflect those base values in everything we do, they are important, and they are being abandoned by many people who have become (rightly) disillusioned with much of the nonsense that gets labelled as "left". I see many people abandoning those values -- baby out with the bathwater, and I see this as going down a scary path as it totally fits into someone's divide and conquer plan.

What we have to do is remove politics and the assignment on the political spectrum from everything we say and do, not emphasize opposite values because some dickheads decided to associate some questionable "policies" with the left. Most people think, "well, the left is shot, I guess I'll go right and and start being a righty fanboi instead of a lefty fanboi" (insert meme poster of a political pyramid being both wings and crushing everyone underfoot).

Only the removal of the right / left spectrum and the assumptions associated with the broad sweeping brushes is going to help at all, this is pretty much required to step out of this divide and conquer process that has already gone too far. It behooves us to not be divided in these ways.

This brings me full circle as to why I am really critical of people (Voice from the Mountains most recently) shoving their political ideologies in others faces, calling them down when it doesn't align, etc. All it does is play into divide and conquer, and these people don't even get paid to do it. For the rulers who want to divide and conquer, well they're laughing all the way to WWIII or if not that, at least their vision of a NWO...

Think about this: There is no amount of force that the PTB can put on us to divide us, the only way it is possible is if they convince us to do it ourselves. If it happens, we will blame them, and the same mental programs that allowed this to happen, will continue to allow them to rule us. We have to be able to see things differently than we are, to perceive differently then we have been.

oh, and Re: the Nazi comment ... you do realize all the "tongue-in-cheek" and sarcasm in that post, right? It was just an example of how someone on the other end of a discussion with AVFM gets responded to much of the time. Its not cool - I'm not trying to make friends either, but a point about being able to discuss like an adult and respect forum etiquette.

And yeah, I agree ... politics in Canada is pretty messy right now. I actually almost miss that crazy old Chretien guy ... at least he had balls and was able to act across the "spectrum". :)

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I like Voice because he is not afraid to say what is on his mind. I may not agree with him but it is refreshing to read honest commentary not catering or cow-towing to a party line.

In my estimation his views are essential to an unbiased forum truly concerned about truth - or spirituality.

It is not all about political correctness or accepted memes this forum has championed. Not everyone is part of the back-slapping crew.

Thanks for the moral support, Ernie, but you're right, I'm not part of a "back-slapping crew." I identify more with the Roman stoics, if that gives you any idea.

I don't think many people read Roman and Greek philosophers anymore, though. They were probably all white supremacist Nazis too, come to think of it. Remind me that we have to burn more textbooks.

All noise and rhetoric aside, the Third Reich did in fact implement socialist economic policies (government takeover of industries, state-run unions, state-run healthcare, etc.), and stifled public debate and criticism in the same way that Stalin and the Communists did in Russia. Fast forward to today, and it's "back-slappers" following the exact same ideologies calling for censorship, shutting down opinions they don't like, and mob violence.

In short, nothing has changed.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I thought the Third Reich was fascist...