Qanon and the Very Bad Day Finally Arrived!

[Praxis]

Yesterday, 5/23/2019, was a very VERY bad day. We have finally Reached that epic day that "one of the biggest thread on the forum" has been talking about for oh so long.


Why the U.S. is actually right to arrest and charge journalists as spies. My Take (http://thisisastupidlink.com)

The very bad day was for one of the only people who has openly and effectively taken a stand against the deep state and all the government that are serving that international deep state.

He is the reason that we know about the Collateral Murder video and the reason that Chelsea Manning is a name.

He is the reason we know that the NSA is watching and recording everything.

He is an actually fighter of the deep state with actions and being in prison for the last seven years.

Well now he is most likely going to be extradited to the United States under the Espionage act of 1917.

Trump himself during the campaign even said how great wikileaks was and one could argue that the damage that Clinton took from leaks could have helped tip the scales.

And here we are. We have people who are very FIRMLY in the camp people who beleive that trump is fighting the deep state. We can quibble about overthrowing Venezuela or having John BoltonMustache in the cabinet, or supporting Saudi in literally any way they ask even looking the other way when they murder a journalist and then selling them nuclear weapons tech all while destroying yemen, the obvious violations of the emoluments clause, the allowing the CIA TO HIDE THE JFK FILES FOR MORE YEARS!, the lack of 9-11 truth, the lack of alien disclosure, the expanding of Guantanamo Bay, the ongoing wars in Iraq, the MOAB in Afghanistan, the stupid border wall, deploying the military on american soil. . . .


No
We wont quibble and discuss if these thing make him a stooge of the deep state.

But we will quibble about Assange. This is a hard stop and a firm break point.

It comes down to this: Either Trump pardons completely( you know like he did with that Marine that committed war crimes?) Julian Assange or he is not the savior you have all hoped.


The story that you tell yourself that Trump is the outsider underdog only worked when he didnt have power, when he wasnt actually in power. Now that he is the ****ing president, that story doesnt work.

Why has he not pardoned Julian Assange? Why are they prosecuting under Espionage act?

Even outside of this, How can anyone of you be on board with this action when Bill Ryan could then be tried under the same law as he has put out investigative work that IMHO exposes much more that Assange has. Assange just gave us prove of what we already knew from the government. If they can arrest journalist because they dont like the information they are producing that sets a very dangerous precedent. DO you really not understand what this precedent will do if it is set?

[Daozen]

OK.. but the other side of the coin is, why even focus on this? I agree with 90% of what you write but why take it on yourself to vehemently cast pearls before people who want to deceive themselves? Gemma is playing a similar game. Walk away. You cannot reason with a tar baby.

There are millions of humans out there who actually need help. They are groping and googling in the dark. Q people don't so I would leave 'em be.

It is spring.

L-ljFgB2o7U

[enigma3]

It is NEVER acceptable, under ANY circumstances, to go after journalists. Unless you prefer to live in a fascist dictatorship.

The speculation I have heard regarding Assange is that Trump wants him to testify as to what he knows regarding the "missing" Hillary emails, Seth Rich, and other machinations related to Dem spying. Then he might get a pardon.

I have no great attachment to Assange. He has done much good in releasing classified material, but he named names, putting those whom he outed at risk. Release all you have, but do not name names. Do not put other people's lives at risk.

[Praxis]

OK.. but the other side of the coin is, why even focus on this? I agree with 90% of what you write but why take it on yourself to vehemently cast pearls before people who want to deceive themselves? Gemma is playing a similar game. Walk away. You cannot reason with a tar baby.

There are millions of humans out there who actually need help. They are groping and googling in the dark. Q people don't so I would leave 'em be.

It is spring.

L-ljFgB2o7U

The problem is that Q believers do affect us all. They vote. They will vote again for Trump because they still are buying his MLM.

The reason I keep it up here is because if you dont, then they will take over and it will become the new normal.

Do you know how I know?

Guantanamo Bay was expanded under the current pres and wants to send more people there.

Do remember when people actually cared about this issue? Remember people would protest this? Remember when congress pulled people in under (and they actually came instead of refusing congressional subpoenas) and questioned them? I know they all just said I dont remember like Alberto Gonazalez but some of us do remember.

And since we are still occupying Iraq and Afghanistan too. It becomes normal and no one cares. These are two deep states wars that we should IMMEDIATELY withdraw from whatever the consequences of it. IMMEDIATELY. Decades of occupation and what to show for it?

Yet No one is talking about this but myself, at least on this forum. I am constatnly harping on this.

I didnt have to post during the Obama years because this place is so conservative they were already all over Obama, except for the stupid **** like birth certificate and other ****, instead of you know IRAQ AFGHANISTAN Guantanamo Bay LIBYA. . . .

So, Daozen, it does matter what these people think.

we are in an information war. And we are losing because Q cult people still believe that nonsense.

Like it or not, that thread is one of the thread that gets alot of attention. and dont just take my Word for that. Heres Mr Gray
(http://anotherstupidlinkthatsomehowheisgettingawaywithgettingclickthroughmoneyoffthissitebypushingauthorita tiannonsense.com)

[Daozen]

The war is in engineering, banking and media.

Doesn't matter whether you're pro or anti Trump. It's all political sleight of hand.

Nearly all this edgy-edgy-bad-boy-dark-side-look-at-me-US-latest-intel is a distraction while they try and set up global gubmint from China. I look at the alt media and I see a bizarre parade of people with big heads and spindly spines gyrating strangely to invisible ragtime music. Dance and shout and shimmy all you want, just know you are striking pale>pale poses for anemic Gods in an empty car park.

https://www.freecodecamp.org/

*

EDIT: I wrote my reply before I read your response to me, Praxis. I know you are sincere but I think you have a very severe case of incurable Americanitis. Im just saying, there are more interesting games to play than "righteous truth-teller bullhorns the sky". Seriously, no one outside the US cares about this stuff. China and Russia are huge trading and technology blocks. What happens in those 2 countries defines the next 100 years, if not the next 1000.

Our future will be decided by what software we choose. Software is the underlying control or liberation mechanism in the modern world. Politicians are largely subservient to technologists. If you can't see that, I can't say anything more.

Anyway, each to his own.

[Daozen]

The problem is that Q believers do affect us all. They vote. They will vote again for Trump because they still are buying his MLM.

The reason I keep it up here is because if you dont, then they will take over and it will become the new normal.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l0mQOWtTlk

There is no voting. You waddle into a polling station, you mash your hand against a Diebold screen, the computer selects a candidate for you, and you waddle out. Or you may saunter, or strut, or sidle, or limp if you're a veteran, or stagger, or lurch... But you don't vote. Trump is most likely booked for 8 years, he admitted that at the Jesuits dinner. He has to look vaguely competent over the next 2-3 years to make his re-election look realistic. After his election, he will most likely brutalize America. That's his job. That's the game. Our job is to out think and outwit them by making ourselves strong and healthy locally. But who cares about the local situation when there's so much righteous pseudo-political crotch thrusting to be done?

Interestingly, (and I know this sounds like opportunistic soap-boxing but bear with me) the globulists argue that it is their "karmic right" to imprison us, as we keep animals and the natural kingdom in horrific and holocaust like conditions. Their philosophy is all laid out in the rofsy thread. What goes around comes around, eh readers?.

Enslave the natural world, get enslaved in return.

http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/banana/t0234.gif (http://yoursmiles.org/t-banana.php)Surprise!:blackwidow:

[onawah]

One way in which we can all help support Assange, starting here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?101306-Intentional-MEDITATION-Group-Sharing&p=1292144&viewfull=1#post1292144

[Franny]

Why has he not pardoned Julian Assange?

My take, Assange does not need a pardon as he has not committed a crime; he's a journalist, editor and publisher. He did not even perform these quite legal activities in the US so cannot be considered a criminal under US law, so they have to trump up charges to contain the damaging exposure.

Assange did publish evidence of corruption and crime. When a state takes it upon itself to accuse, arrest and punish a person for exposing crime and corruption, you know what kind of state you live in.

And we all know this...

[Dennis Leahy]

The Q-based (or Q follower-based) notion that trump is doing this to get proof that Seth Rich gave the data to Wikileaks, and that Assange has to be put on trial to be pardoned, is ignorant. With the rose-colored lenses off, Julian Assange is not going to testify and break his duty to protect his source(s.) Other than rachel maddow and a handful of other party-line-insane faux-left democrats, no one thinks the Russians hacked hillary's computer. Nor would it solve the question of who ordered the hit on Seth Rich.

Remember hillary's computer files? Yeah, that's all the stuff that was ignored by the mainstream in favor of the Rusky/snipe hunt. As quickly as possible the deep state directed all eyes to shift to Julian Assange, rather than on getting the Global Mafia Donna, hellary, or the drone bombing champ, obomber, in front of a firing squad for treason. This is exactly as the deep state is directing this operation, now using deep state huckster, master of the female genitalia grope, the donald, as their #1 puppet (as is the fate of every US president.)

You can forget about influencing Q followers. They are not going to listen to you. They have absolute and undeniable proof that Q predicted a few words trump would use on twitter, and that's that. They think it means that trump is actually anti deep state. Syria doesn't count. Iran doesn't count. Venezuela doesn't count. Israel doesn't count. Palestine doesn't count. Saudi Arabia doesn't count. Yemen doesn't count. Why would arresting, torturing, trying, convicting, and imprisoning Assange count?

[robinr1]

OK.. but the other side of the coin is, why even focus on this? I agree with 90% of what you write but why take it on yourself to vehemently cast pearls before people who want to deceive themselves? Gemma is playing a similar game. Walk away. You cannot reason with a tar baby.

There are millions of humans out there who actually need help. They are groping and googling in the dark. Q people don't so I would leave 'em be.

It is spring.

L-ljFgB2o7U

when was alex jones a comedian?

[A Voice from the Mountains]

The Q-based (or Q follower-based) notion that trump is doing this to get proof that Seth Rich gave the data to Wikileaks, and that Assange has to be put on trial to be pardoned, is ignorant.

I like getting all of these prognostications on record in advance, because in a few months we will be able to look back and see very clearly which point of view had the firmest grip on reality.

The narrative has been that military tribunals and death-penalty trials are ultimately on the horizon, and now we're not only about to finally see Q's DECLAS on the spying origins, but Trump is openly talking about treason and death penalties too. Everything is on the proper trajectory according to the Q material. None of this is stuff anyone could have easily guessed one or two years ago.

Did you know that Julian Assange himself has all but explicitly stated multiple times that Seth Rich was the DNC email source?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp7FkLBRpKg

I see that you seem to already get this much of the picture Dennis, but I've never quite understood how Assange's statements in the video above filter into others' minds who don't believe that Seth Rich was murdered for leaking. I imagine there must be some kind of cognitive dissonance going on, because what Assange is alluding to above is pretty obvious.

Since the guy is already dead, and Assange has already said that much on MSM, I don't see what great moral dilemma he thinks he is in to prevent him from testifying to all of this in a court of law. If his own life is really on the line, that's motivation to talk too, isn't it?

Or maybe he will stand on his principles and keep silent about Hillary's crimes to protect the dead man.

[Jayke]

But we will quibble about Assange. This is a hard stop and a firm break point.

It comes down to this: Either Trump pardons completely( you know like he did with that Marine that committed war crimes?) Julian Assange or he is not the savior you have all hoped.

Rarely is reality ever so black and white, and false binaries do little to make sense of complex situations.

The fate of Assange is definitely going to be a good litmus test for Trumps credentials. Let’s not forget that the American deep state is orchestrated by the Oligarchs within the Queens Privy Council, centred in the city of London.

ACQ4PehICIg
So, for Assange to be currently held in a British prison, doesn’t bode well for his fate regardless of whether Trump gets involved or not.

Trump is all about the deal. A pragmatist who does what’s in his best interest to get the outcome he needs.
Recent deals include giving Robert Mueller the go ahead to orchestrate regime change in Venezuela (as long as no boots on the ground “hot war” is initiated), in exchange for Mueller dropping his investigation into Trumps campaign.
A hot war with Iran just isn’t practically feasible, the best Bolton could come up with would be a cultural regime change, or getting a stooge into power who’s favourable to deep state interests. Sounds like Trump is making deals with Russia to prevent any disastrous hot wars with Iran though, if Thierry Meyssans assessment is anything to go by.

Venezuela, Iran: Trump and the deep state (https://www.voltairenet.org/article206535.html) by Thierry Meyssan

What deal will Trump make with the privy council when he visits the U.K. next week? (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48400765)

Assange will be a core bargaining chip between the players involved no doubt. Trump would only pardon Assange if he gets no favourable terms from the Privy Council, likewise, he’d lose a core percentage of his base if Assange was given the death penalty under the Espionage Act. No doubt a compromise of life imprisonment would be a favourable outcome for both parties. Which would seem like a shocking betrayal to the idealistic social justice warriors, but would also be a pragmatic concession by Trump, in face of the grim realities of an oligarchy hell bent on fomenting world war 3 to depopulate the planet to a billion people.

The world chugs along, the churning of the milk continues, slow and steady development ensues...

[Daozen]

Could any of the Q believers give us a quick run down of a best case scenario for our fearless white hats? So...

One day we wake up, there's mass arrests on TV. Perp walks! Marines storming DC! Helicopters over Bohemian Grove! At last, vindication!!! We shed a tear of relief... Vladimir Putin, flanked by a rag tag honour guard of white hats, takes the world stage. Hail the World King! And we do a lightworker conga straight into the open gullet of the eastern globalists.

Cashless handouts for everyone! Microchips for every lightworker! Bitcoin! 5G! Disclosure!

0V6N4elMVX4

That ain't freedom, son. That's global government by consent.

Be careful young truthseekers. These people aren't your friend. They're trying to get your consent. It's all about consent, consent, consent and controlling the most powerful dreamers.

This reality is a collaborative hologram.

[Baby Steps]

Great question.

The realizations that are undoubtedly entering the mass consciousness via multiple information sources are:

- arms, illegal drugs, pharma, human trafficking, child prostitution etc, are all industries that have the financial clout to operate outside the law, and fully subvert our political systems

- a large section of our political systems are complicit, financially involved, and being blackmailed.

- False flags are being done to manipulate us into wars

As this dawns on people , the best case scenario reaction that could happen is a general move towards greater democracy, transparency and accountability, that can if managed properly, work without destabilising our political systems to the point of collapse and bloodshed.

Q feels like a load or right wing militarists, who through Trump are doing a damage limitation exercise. Prevent collapse and revolution, by making token examples of minor players only.

The Trump administration is blatantly crony. The best case spin you can put on this is that he is forced to deal or cohabit with this , on the right, and promise that that the fallout will not damage their interests.

That gang are failing in the long term due to the urbanization and diversity demographic. The long term concern is the cronyism and corruption in the centre left. That needs cleaning, as that milieu is the future.

That is why I applaud the right and pray that they anihilate the corrupt centre left. It lays the foundation for a cleaner more wholesome politics across the board.

[Gracy]

The Q-based (or Q follower-based) notion that trump is doing this to get proof that Seth Rich gave the data to Wikileaks, and that Assange has to be put on trial to be pardoned, is ignorant.

I like getting all of these prognostications on record in advance, because in a few months we will be able to look back and see very clearly which point of view had the firmest grip on reality

Yay, only a few more months now. Again?i am facinated by this never ending carousel of predictions! Rather than risking a future quibble over what a few months really means do you have a drop drop dead date that i can hang my favorite sunflower hat on and mark on my calendar?

I can keep on holding my breath for all this to happen tilelection day if needed, or, you can make it earlier if you like.

Just for the record?

[Praxis]

The most recent from CaitlinJohnstone.
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2019/05/26/how-you-can-be-100-certain-that-qanon-is-bull****/



How You Can Be 100% Certain That QAnon Is Bull****

President Trump has yet again advanced an evil longstanding agenda of America’s depraved intelligence and defense agencies, so as usual the QAnon cult is out in force telling everyone not to worry because this is all part of the plan. Ever since WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange was slammed by Trump’s Justice Department with a mountain of espionage charges carrying a possible sentence of 175 years in prison, QAnon acolytes have been showing up in my social media mentions with screenshots of a new post from the mysterious 8chan anon assuring us all that Assange is actually being protected by Trump.

The post reads in the typical QAnon cryptic word salad style that its adherents often annoyingly imitate when normal people try to engage them in an adult conversation:

“Under protection.
Threat is real.
Key to DNC ‘source’ ‘hack’ ‘187’.
Q”

I find this subject very tedious, and my regular readers aren’t generally the types to fall for this sort of toxic propaganda construct, but I’m putting this information out there anyway as a public service since many people are being deluded by it.

If you’re one of those fortunate enough to be unfamiliar with the QAnon phenomenon, in October of 2017 odd posts began appearing on the anonymous message board 4chan, which is wildly popular with trolls, incels and racists. Those posts ceased appearing on 4chan and moved to a related site, 8chan, where they continue appearing to this day. The poster purports to have insider knowledge of a secret, silent and invisible war that President Trump has been waging against the Deep State with the help of the US military and various “white hats” within the US government, and shares snippets about this war with 8chan users in extremely vague and garbled posts.

Here are three reasons you can be absolutely, 100 percent certain that it’s bull****:
1. It always, always, always excuses Trump’s facilitation of evil deep state agendas.

I don’t generally use the term “deep state” anymore, mainly because its proper meaning has been distorted by right-wingers and Qultists to mean basically “Democrats and Never-Trumpers”, and by mainstream liberals to mean something like “a right-wing conspiracy theory about a secretive cabal of Jews who rule the world”. But originally the term simply referred to a concept used for political analysis to describe the undeniable fact that plutocrats and intelligence/defense agencies tend to form relationships with each other in a way that persists amid the comings and goings of the official elected government.

This alliance has certain agendas that it has consistently pushed for, many of them involving the advancement of wars which financially benefit the plutocrats and which secure geostrategic dominance for the intelligence/defence agencies. Trump has been advancing these longstanding agendas with his administration’s regime change interventionism against Iran and Venezuela, world-threatening new cold war escalations against Russia, military expansionism, continuing and expanding of all of Bushbama’s warmongering and Orwellian surveillance programs, the campaign to destroy WikiLeaks and imprison Julian Assange for life, and many other actions which benefit the agenda of global hegemony and the profit margins of war plutocrats.

Trump Supporters Are Hurting Assange With Their 4-D Chess Talk

"This is a time where everyone who supports WikiLeaks should be flooring the gas pedal, and this 'Don’t do anything, trust the plan, wait and see' rhetoric is keeping one foot on the brakes."https://t.co/RgtTCc3Dnl

— Caitlin Johnstone ⏳ (@caitoz) April 13, 2019

Every single time Trump advances one of these depraved agendas and I speak out against it, I begin getting angry social media responses from QAnon cultists telling me to calm down and relax, that this is all part of the plan, and that Trump is actually doing the exact opposite of what he appears to be doing. And when I say “every single time”, I mean exactly that, without a single, solitary exception.

QAnon cultists do this every single time because they have been propagandized into doing so, both by the 8chan anon they follow and by the herd mentality of the community that it has fostered. They begin with the baseless premise that Trump is a righteous warrior against corruption, conclude that everything he does must therefore be a righteous maneuver against Deep State corruption, then apply their hive mind to coming up with reasons to believe this. Then they show up in my mentions telling me I’m crazy for believing Trump is doing the things that he is very plainly and obviously doing.

Virtually every week during the #Unity4J vigils, we discuss the harmful effect of #Qanon & similar narratives re: holding @realDonaldTrump accountable for his horrendous treatment of both @xychelsea and #JulianAssange. We ask our guests how they feel we can combat this harm.

— Elizabeth Lea Vos (@ElizabethleaVos) May 26, 2019

I've lost count of amount of #MAGA & #QAnon bots in last 48hrs who think Assange indictment/extradition is secret 5D chess move by #Trump to prove 2016 DNC emails were leak. Besides fact it's already proved(Binney,VIPS) it shows we're dealing w/#Cult that's stripped all agency.

— Patrick Henningsen (@21WIRE) May 25, 2019

We need to save the boomers from the Q cult. They probably mean well. They’re just so… gullible. #FreeTheBoomers https://t.co/J2nt9zweKz

— Cassandra Fairbanks (@CassandraRules) May 25, 2019

There must be some kind of Q anon dm group where they just decide who to spam because my mentions look like one flew over the cuckoos nest

— Cassandra Fairbanks (@CassandraRules) May 24, 2019

You don’t need to take my word for this. As of this writing right now you can go to the Twitter search bar and type in the words “Assange” and “QAnon” and you’ll get a bunch of posts explaining that Assange is “under protection”, and that imprisoning a longtime target of the CIA and the Pentagon is actually a devastating blow to the Deep State. You can continue to repeat this exact same experiment every single time Trump advances a disgusting warmongering deep state agenda, and every single time you’ll get the exact same results.

This to me is reason enough to be absolutely certain that QAnon and the credulous cult which has sprouted up around it is crap. US presidents are reliably corrupt warmongers and CIA cronies, so the current president acting like one is not surprising or extraordinary. Trying to justify a US president doing the sort of thing that all US presidents always do as a total deviation from the norm for US presidents would be a ridiculous thing to do even one time. Doing it every single time is fully discrediting.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, you could maybe be excused if you mistook it for a rabbit after one quick glance, but continuing to stare directly at a duck and saying “Yeah that’s definitely a rabbit, look at the long ears” over an extended period of time would mean you’re a bull****ter.
2. They always, always, always refuse to prove the validity of their position.

Thinking of writing an article about #Qanon, which I personally believe is an establishment psyop designed to lull the antiwar right into complacency at a time of escalating war agendas. I have an open mind though; show me your very best link or screenshot showing that Q is real.

— Caitlin Johnstone ⏳ (@caitoz) April 15, 2018

A year ago I tweeted out that I was thinking of writing an article about QAnon and asked its adherents for their very best links/screenshots proving its legitimacy. Go ahead and have a read of the kinds of responses I got by clicking this hyperlink if you’re curious. No one came remotely close to providing anything like the evidence I’d asked for, with most responses falling along the lines of “You kind of have to just immerse yourself in it over an extended period of time and marinate in it until you believe,” which is the same sort of response you’ll get if you ask a religious proselytizer to prove the legitimacy of their religion. I shared the thread again yesterday and got the same response, with one QAnon promoter with a fairly large following telling me, “No amount of evidence can be seen by one choosing to stay blind.”

This is completely different from standard conspiracy theories. If you ask a 9/11 truther to prove the legitimacy of their position, they’ll instantly be able to produce clear and concise videos and articles for you, and if they’ve actually done their homework they’ll be able to regale you with information about physics, forensics, architecture, chemistry, and plot holes in the official narrative. If you ask someone who’s got theories about the JFK assassination you’ll get a comparable amount of lucidity. Ask a QAnon cultist for the same level of intellectual transparency and you’ll get a bunch of mealy-mouthed gibberish which will quickly turn into accusations that you are lazy for refusing to do your own research if you keep pressing.

This is because there is no actual, tangible factual basis for the belief system which has sprouted up around QAnon. It begins, just like any other religion, as a premise of faith, and then the adherents to that faith pool their intellectual resources into the task of finding reasons to legitimize that premise. They begin with the premise that Trump is a good and noble savior who is uprooting the source of all of America’s problems with strategic maneuvers which are so brilliant that they look like the exact opposite of what they are, then they let confirmation bias and other cognitive biases do the rest of the work for them.

Qanon is a skilled propagandist so naturally people respond to Q's Pavlovian tactics.
Q is a pusher.
Partisans are irrational, they think with emotions and behave like a herd.
At the behavior's core is biology not ideology & all good propagandists since Bernays understand this. pic.twitter.com/oslq9ysI3j

— JG Bennet (@FakeLeftSucks) May 25, 2019

Again, you don’t need to take my word for this; you can repeat this experiment for yourself. Whenever you encounter a QAnon adherent, either by chance or by seeking them out deliberately, simply ask them to prove the legitimacy of their position. You might get links to sources which attempt to prove that QAnon is connected to the Trump administration (as though that would somehow counter the idea that it’s a pro-Trump propaganda construct), you might get links to the mountain of cryptic word salads that QAnon has posted and told to comb through them yourself, but you won’t ever get anything resembling an attempt to clearly prove that QAnon is the thing that it purports to be. If you keep pushing you’ll encounter nothing but anger as you run into a wall of cognitive dissonance.

This proves that QAnon is not even a proper conspiracy theory, as we’ve come to understand that term. Conspiracy theories, per definition, consist of some sort of concrete theory. QAnon, like Russiagate, consists of nothing other than something that people desperately want to believe and then seek out excuses which allow them to feel comfortable believing it. This makes it far more akin to a religion or a cult than a conspiracy theory.

If QAnon were legitimate, it would be easy for its followers to demonstrate that legitimacy in a clear and simple way. They never can.
3. It’s made many bogus claims and inaccurate predictions.

"A non-comprehensive timeline of Q's failed predictions and mistakes and a list of tactics he uses to hook and drag followers." #QAnon #WWG1WGAhttps://t.co/uPGQ35wMBX

— Caitlin Johnstone ⏳ (@caitoz) May 25, 2019

I’m putting this one last instead of first because the appeal of QAnon has very little to do with facts and evidence; if you show these to a Q cultist they’ll typically just say “Oh Q didn’t really mean that” or “That one wasn’t the real Q” or even “Disinformation is necessary” (a John Bolton doctrine which QAnon itself has proclaimed on multiple occasions), but for anyone who’s kind of on the fence about the whole thing you should be aware that the QAnon phenomenon has been rife with demonstrable inaccuracies. Personally I prefer to focus on the behaviors of the QAnon cultists themselves, since they’re the ones interpreting the cryptic word salads and circulating those interpretations online. They behave as cheerleaders for their government’s most depraved agendas; it doesn’t really matter what they are being told to believe to get them to behave that way.

This recent Reddit post on r/conspiracy breaks down many of the bogus claims, inaccurate predictions and deceitful manipulations that the QAnon construct has made since its inception. They include claiming in October 2017 that Hillary Clinton had been arrested and to expect mass rioting in response, posting and then deleting a fake Podesta email, posting multiple photoshopped images as though they were real, posting a bogus photo suggesting that the operator of the account was on Airforce One, and posting bogus “codes” that are demonstrably nothing other than gibberish.

I don’t claim to know everything about this QAnon thing or who exactly is behind it, but these three points I just outlined in my opinion kill all doubt that it’s not what it purports to be. For anyone looking at them with intellectual honesty rather than the same way a creationist or cult member might look at something which challenges their faith, anyway.

It is not good that a vocal and enthusiastic part of Trump’s largely anti-interventionist, pro-WikiLeaks base has been propagandized into consistently stumping for longtime agendas of the CIA and the Pentagon. Someone’s benefiting from this, and it isn’t you.

________________________

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[Daozen]

It's true that there are some strong souls trapped in the Q psyop. The Q story is an attempt to bring down the alt media, track powerful half-awakened souls, and keep potential disruptors in a holding pattern. They have done substantial damage to Avalon as well. Good on them I guess. It takes a lot of hard work and persistence to even partially discredit a board as big as this.

[Clear Light]

Oh, now with regards to the whole QAnon "thing", I was doing some background reading earlier today, digging here and there, "getting a feel for it", you know the sort of "thing" right ?

By the way, in Praxis' earlier post (just above), is a link to a Reddit thread "A non-comprehensive timeline of Q's failed predictions and mistakes and a list of tactics he uses to hook and drag followers (https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/bshen7/a_noncomprehensive_timeline_of_qs_failed/)" which presents a list of Q's (who ?) many apparent "Failures and False Predictions" from October 2017 through until August 2018 ... for non-believers it may prove interesting reading eh ? ;)

However, here's what this post is primarily concerned with :

From : Re: The Qanon posts and a "Very Bad Day" Scenario for some elite swamp critters (www.projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a-Very-Bad-Day-Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters)




Reference to Qanon post #991....



991

Apr 2 2018 23:58:41 (EDT) Anonymous ID: 015520 875485 (https://8ch.net/qresearch/res/875135.html#875485) >>875265
Tip Top Tippy Top Shape
Apr 3 2018 00:03:57 (EDT) Q !xowAT4Z3VQ ID: 491f56 875587 (https://8ch.net/qresearch/res/875135.html#875587) >>875485
It was requested.
Did you listen today?
Q











http://curezone.com/upload/_T_Forums/Turiya_Files_/AVALON/TRUMP/TRUMP_TWEETS/TRUMP_TWITTER_ICON_5.png (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/980958298445885446)

An honor to host the Annual @WhiteHouse (https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse) Easter Egg Roll!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhgn03mXD-A
8:41 AM - 2 Apr 2018 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/980958298445885446)

So, as far as I can discern, in this particular instance, the "Q is Real" narrative has it that an anonymous post (https://8ch.net/qresearch/res/206546.html#206630) on 4CHan (January 2018)


Maybe Q can work the phrase "tip top" into the SOTU [State of the Union] as a shout out to the board?​

is the "smoking gun" (evidence) with regards to "Q being an Insider" (again Who ?) because Trump used the words "Tip Top" (at 55 seconds in the Easter Egg Roll video) just a couple of months later right ?

Furthermore, if one has a look at WWG1WGA's book called "QAnon: An Invitation to The Great Awakening (https://www.amazon.co.uk/QAnon-Invitation-Great-Awakening-WWG1WGA/dp/1942790139#reader_1942790139)", there's a section titled "The Day I Knew Q Wasn't A Hoax" (by Lori Colley) in which she tells of her "moment of truth" relating to this "Q Drop" (you can "Look Inside" at some of it) :

40645

40646

For reference this book was released just three months ago (26 Feb 2019) nevertheless it seems to form part of the "Official Narrative" considering its inclusion in the book eh ?

But "here's the rub" ... Trump's use of the words "Tip Top" is certainly not new ... indeed there's a very thorough article (August 2018) Debunking it as being somehow related to QAnon [5] ... please see Metabunk's Debunked: "Tip Top" as a QAnon Clue from Trump [He's said it before] (https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-tip-top-as-a-qanon-clue-from-trump-hes-said-it-before.t9921/) for a timeline of his several uses of these words, as follows :


https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/trump-tip-top-qanon-metabunk-jpg.34103/

In the recent media coverage of the "QAnon" conspiracy theory that followed some Q supporters showing up at a Trump rally, one of the pieces of evidence that the Q supporters gave on camera was the idea that Trump said "tip-top" because a Q made him do it.

This actually seems quite compelling as a sound bite on TV. There's the post on 4Chan with an anonymous user asking Q to work "tip-top" into a Trump speech, this is immediately followed with a clip of Trump saying "tip-top". There's even a bonus white rabbit (a reference to the "rabbit hole" in "red-pill" modern mythology).

But it all falls apart when you look at the actual context. Here's a timeline of Trump saying "Tip Top" (or "Tippy-top") and 4Chan/QAnon talking about it. Note the dates.


April 11 2016 - Speech at Red Hook Civic Association (http://www.star-revue.com/donald-trump-causes-commotion-red-hook-civic-association-cosmo-politan/#sthash.rNtpZw0t.iac2jCgd.dpbs)
Trump: "I’ve got the best people! The best! I mean, where do you get these people. I know where to find them. This country will be in tip top shape once I take over. I mean, I don’t know anything about running a country, but I’ve been pretty damn good about running my company. We’ve got the best company in American. I am worth billions of dollars!"​

Aug 12 2016 - Campaign rally in Altoona, Pennsylvania (https://youtu.be/ypYy-WMuyiU?t=6082) [1]
Trump "everything was tippy-top, I like tippy-top, I like everything ... Everyone who goes to my buildings, my clubs, they're tippy-top! Right? Tippy-top"​

August 10 2017 - Remarks Following a Security Briefing and an Exchange With Reporters in Bedminster, New Jersey (https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/remarks-following-security-briefing-and-exchange-with-reporters-bedminster-new-jersey) [2]
Trump: "I want this, our nuclear arsenal, to be the biggest and the finest in the world. And we spent a lot of money, a lot of time, and a lot of effort. And it's in tip-top shape and getting better and getting stronger."​

Oct 11, 2017 - Remarks Prior to a Meeting With Prime Minister Justin P.J. Trudeau of Canada and an Exchange With Reporters (https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/remarks-prior-meeting-with-prime-minister-justin-pj-trudeau-canada-and-exchange-with) [3]
Trump: "We won't need an increase , but I want modernization, and I want total rehabilitation. It's got to be in tip-top shape."

January 29 2018 - Anonymous Post on 4CHan (https://8ch.net/qresearch/res/206546.html#206630)
Maybe Q can work the phrase "tip top" into the SOTU [State of the Union] as a shout out to the board?​

[/Snipped]

April 2, 2018 - Remarks at the White House Easter Egg Roll (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-2018-white-house-easter-egg-roll/) [4]
Trump: "Also, I want to thank the White House Historical Association and all of the people that work so hard with Melania, with everybody, to keep this incredible house or building or whatever you want to call it—because there really is no name for it; it is special—and we keep it in tiptop shape. We call it sometimes tippy-top shape. And it's a great, great place."

April 2, 2018 21:03:57 - Q takes credit (https://8ch.net/qresearch/res/875135.html#875587)
It was requested.
Did you listen today?
Q​

Trump has used "tip-top" twice before in official remarks, and in both cases in reference to America's nuclear arsenal. At the State of the Union speech he would have been expected to talk about the nuclear arsenal, and it would have been [I]entirely unsurprising if he used the same phrase as he had used before to describe the arsenal. In fact it's quite possible that the Anonymous poster had deliberate picked this phrase because he thought that Trump might use it. If, as most people suspect, Q is just a troll, then he quite possibly planted the "request", hoping Trump would repeat himself. As it happened he did not, so the request fell flat.

And then, two months later, Trump used the phrase at a random event, in a seemingly unscripted off-the cuff remark about the White House, and how clean Melania keeps it. He was simply using a phrase he uses occasionally, and will use again at some random time in the future that will then be seized up as being significant. But it's not.

Thus, as far as I'm aware, the QAnon "thing" does not "hold water" as evidenced above !!!

:sherlock:

[1] The youtube video for the link (https://youtu.be/CFz51NcVBhQ?t=1h1m26s) as quoted in Metabunk's article is no longer available however I found what it is referring to in a different video (as linked)

[2] [3] I've amended the link so that it works !

[4] The original link doesn't work but I found one that does !

[5] Indeed, several months before WWG1WGA's book is published !

[Mercedes]

To me, as long as I keep seeing the chemtrails in the skies it's still the same people controlling the narrative.

[Praxis]

To me, as long as I keep seeing the chemtrails in the skies it's still the same people controlling the narrative.

See actually, what you dont realize is that the Chemtrails are actually secretly Trump and the white hats spraying the baddies so that when that that one special day comes they make sure the baddies are not an issue in making GEOTUS a legal title so that he can finally beat those dastardly deep staters.

They have coopted the brain control chemicals and are using them drain the swamp. Dont you see the map? Believe in the plan people!

Just wait, as soon as THE GOD EMPEROR executes Julian Assange for treason which will then cause his dead man switch to release the JFK and 9-11 proofs, he will finally be in a position to make his move against the deep state. Just wait people! Yes everything is basically the same now as it was under the last two prezidents, but that is only lulling them into a false sense of security you see!

[Clarity]

It is NEVER acceptable, under ANY circumstances, to go after journalists. Unless you prefer to live in a fascist dictatorship.

The speculation I have heard regarding Assange is that Trump wants him to testify as to what he knows regarding the "missing" Hillary emails, Seth Rich, and other machinations related to Dem spying. Then he might get a pardon.

I have no great attachment to Assange. He has done much good in releasing classified material, but he named names, putting those whom he outed at risk. Release all you have, but do not name names. Do not put other people's lives at risk.



Not all of them deserve such protection.

Many 'journalists' are nothing more than the Marketing Department for one or another of the political parties and their agendas. At times of adversity they don't even attempt to hide their political activism.

[Mitm]

Guys there is a poster on twitter called @TrueEyeTheSpy - This person has posted pics from inside the whitehouse, and is giving a more realistic timeline of what is part of the Q plan... He also explains things as they happen and posts practically everyday... most likely an NSA operative, that knows the plan... says will still be a while til Hilary and Obama are arrested, was part of the team that actually put in the extradition for Assange. Check him out....

[KiwiElf]

Hi Mitm :)

Thank you for the above info. :thumbsup:

Would you please also be so kind as to post the above on the Main Q thread as this Twitter Account appears to be Pro Q? (link below) ... (Or I can cross-post it there for you - to your credit of course)? ;)

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100318-The-Qanon-posts-and-a-Very-Bad-Day-Scenario-for-some-elite-swamp-critters

EDIT: Ooops, you disappeared Mitm, so have cross-posted to the Main Q thread - thanks! :sun:

(TO THE MODS: Perhaps a title change to THIS thread would be appropriate to avoid the confusion - or combine it with the existing Opposing Q thread, below?
If common sense were to prevail, do we really need four "Opposing Q" threads? - cheers :idea:)?

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104156-QAnon-An-Opposing-Viewpoint-LARP-Psyop-Cult-or-Something-Even-More-Sinister

[AutumnW]

The Q-based (or Q follower-based) notion that trump is doing this to get proof that Seth Rich gave the data to Wikileaks, and that Assange has to be put on trial to be pardoned, is ignorant.

I like getting all of these prognostications on record in advance, because in a few months we will be able to look back and see very clearly which point of view had the firmest grip on reality.

The narrative has been that military tribunals and death-penalty trials are ultimately on the horizon, and now we're not only about to finally see Q's DECLAS on the spying origins, but Trump is openly talking about treason and death penalties too. Everything is on the proper trajectory according to the Q material. None of this is stuff anyone could have easily guessed one or two years ago.

Did you know that Julian Assange himself has all but explicitly stated multiple times that Seth Rich was the DNC email source?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp7FkLBRpKg

I see that you seem to already get this much of the picture Dennis, but I've never quite understood how Assange's statements in the video above filter into others' minds who don't believe that Seth Rich was murdered for leaking. I imagine there must be some kind of cognitive dissonance going on, because what Assange is alluding to above is pretty obvious.

Since the guy is already dead, and Assange has already said that much on MSM, I don't see what great moral dilemma he thinks he is in to prevent him from testifying to all of this in a court of law. If his own life is really on the line, that's motivation to talk too, isn't it?

Or maybe he will stand on his principles and keep silent about Hillary's crimes to protect the dead man.

Ummm...Voice? He's afraid of being extradited right into a kangaroo court. And in what world are military tribunals and death penalty trials a good thing. There's no transparency. Anyone could be nabbed on false pretexts.

[Praxis]

Guys there is a poster on twitter called @TrueEyeTheSpy - This person has posted pics from inside the whitehouse, and is giving a more realistic timeline of what is part of the Q plan... He also explains things as they happen and posts practically everyday... most likely an NSA operative, that knows the plan... says will still be a while til Hilary and Obama are arrested, was part of the team that actually put in the extradition for Assange. Check him out....

Please do spin me a tail about how Extradition will be good for him? I suppose Chelsea Manning being in prison is also part of this plan?

Dont you think it is interesting that this plan constantly is lining up with the PNAC agenda?



And no this thread should not be merged with others threads and the title is fine as is. Only people who do not actually read things would confuse the two.

[KiwiElf]

Not all of them deserve such protection.

Many 'journalists' are nothing more than the Marketing Department for one or another of the political parties and their agendas. At times of adversity they don't even attempt to hide their political activism.

Too true; the ones with integrity are journalists; the others are crooks ... with loudspeakers ;)

[Praxis]

It is NEVER acceptable, under ANY circumstances, to go after journalists. Unless you prefer to live in a fascist dictatorship.

The speculation I have heard regarding Assange is that Trump wants him to testify as to what he knows regarding the "missing" Hillary emails, Seth Rich, and other machinations related to Dem spying. Then he might get a pardon.

I have no great attachment to Assange. He has done much good in releasing classified material, but he named names, putting those whom he outed at risk. Release all you have, but do not name names. Do not put other people's lives at risk.



Not all of them deserve such protection.

Many 'journalists' are nothing more than the Marketing Department for one or another of the political parties and their agendas. At times of adversity they don't even attempt to hide their political activism.

Pray tell, who gets to decide you is and is not legit?

I agree Fox News is openly Republican and pushes that agenda on the regular. They are indeed not journalist.

[waree]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7BGXx84Pnk

If Trump is draining the swamp, why Jared Kushner is attending the Bilderberg this year? And Trump is meeting with Kissinger again.
I want to believe in Q, but this is very suspicious.

[Daozen]

(TO THE MODS
If common sense were to prevail, do we really need four "Opposing Q" threads? - cheers :idea:)?



If common sense were to prevail, we would not have any Q threads. :)

[AutumnW]

Let's take all the "four dimensional chess moves" with regards Assange to its logical conclusion, where reality is inverted to veil "what is actually happening."

Q supporters will be shuffled off to Christian reeducation camps like most everybody after Assamge is executed. They will STILL insist it's a part of a greater plan to topple the elites and drain the swamp.

[KiwiElf]

If common sense were to prevail, we would not have any Q threads. :)

"Censorship Is the Last Tool of Tyrants"

- Dr. Joseph Mercola

;)

[Bill Ryan]

If common sense were to prevail, do we really need four "Opposing Q" threads? - cheers :idea:)?

Darwinian principles of Natural Selection might seem to suggest that the 4:1 ratio pretty much reflects the views of the membership!

:)

:focus:

[KiwiElf]

If common sense were to prevail, do we really need four "Opposing Q" threads? - cheers :idea:)?

Darwinian principles of Natural Selection might seem to suggest that the 4:1 ratio pretty much reflects the views of the membership!

:)

:focus:

So might the 1,500+ views the main Q thread get daily, Bill. ;)

[AutumnW]

If common sense were to prevail, we would not have any Q threads. :)

"Censorship Is the Last Tool of Tyrants"

- Dr. Joseph Mercola

;)



“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

- Dr. Joseph Mengele

Fixed it for you!

[Bill Ryan]

If common sense were to prevail, do we really need four "Opposing Q" threads? - cheers :idea:)?

Darwinian principles of Natural Selection might seem to suggest that the 4:1 ratio pretty much reflects the views of the membership!

:)

:focus:

So might the 1,500+ views the main Q thread get daily, Bill. ;)

:bigsmile: :highfive: :handshake:

(But do note, 80-90% of those views are probably from non-members. It might be interesting for Paul to look up the exact stats.)

[onawah]

The article Censorship Is the Last Tool of Tyrants was copied and pasted here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?106821-The-US-Vaccine-issue-is-more-than-just-about-the-Shots-it-is-about-totalitarian-tiptoe&p=1293579&viewfull=1#post1293579
It's about censoring the truth about vaccines, an issue which I think Q has avoided, since Trump hasn't followed through with supporting the anti-vaccine movement as was once hoped.
In fact, he's proved to be supportive of vaccines.
https://www.statnews.com/2019/04/26/trump-vaccinations-measles/

[Daozen]

If common sense were to prevail, we would not have any Q threads. :)

"Censorship Is the Last Tool of Tyrants"

- Dr. Joseph Mercola

;)

Wise words... BTW, are you paid to write these posts?

[Daozen]

The views of the membership are probably more like 1500:4 against. There's only 4 members bumping that accursed thread.

1500 views per day is no measure of veracity or quality. This Krankies video has nearly 100,000 views:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMgBumRBR-k

Dr Mercola does make wonderful krill oil, I hear.

Back to topic. What is the actual aim of the Q psyop, other than to keep people on a treadmill?

[KiwiElf]

Paul actually did the exact stats a few weeks ago, but no doubt that has changed since, (somewhere around 300 unique IP addresses at the time I believe - nothing to be sneezed at). :)

EDIT: And he's just run another on the main Q thread as I typed this:


More stats: For the current (almost complete) month of May, 2019, some 2695 distinct IP addresses have viewed this Qanon thread, 718 of which IP addresses are from 284 identifiable (logged in) forum members, and the remaining 1977 of which IP addresses are from various guests (both human and search engine bots)

But why guess?

Why not do a poll? :idea:

If the majority of Avalon members want the Q thread closed down, who am I to argue? (And if so, by all means, close it down)! :thumbsup:

(But a little Marketing advice if I may? The outside viewers/visitors DO count. Traffic = pass-on readership).

Every. Single. One.

And always remember,..

"Actions have Consequences" ;)

[Daozen]

Yes, lets do a poll, that's fair.

"Actions have consequences"... that sounds vague and almost threatening. Maybe you could expand upon that so it's clearer.

BTW, I heard no answer to my question "Are you paid to write these posts?" It's a fair enough question, neutrally worded.

[KiwiElf]

@ Daozen

And here's my neutral response: "No" :)

As for "Actions have consequences" sounding threatening (to you), that's your interpretation; not mine. (I'd call it, and your (unnecessary) question if I'm being paid to post here, projection/provocation).

It's simple maths:

Firstly, PLEASE do your poll. I sincerely invite it. :thumbsup:

Secondly, should the Q thread be closed down, that's potentially (using Paul's latest figures), a fairly substantial number of viewers - and possibly members - Avalon may lose.

I'd call that a (substantial) "consequence!"

[RunningDeer]

(using Paul's latest figures)
A good time & place to add Paul’s post. 2695 distinct IP addresses. Many return over the course of the month.

Current stats: 492 pages, 9,820 replies, 808,506 views


More stats: For the current (almost complete) month of May, 2019, some 2695 distinct IP addresses have viewed this Qanon thread, 718 of which IP addresses are from 284 identifiable (logged in) forum members, and the remaining 1977 of which IP addresses are from various guests (both human and search engine bots)

[Jad]

Poll or no poll, I don’t agree with closing any Q or any other threads. What the hell is going here? If you don’t like a certain thread then simply don’t participate in it. You don’t need to force your views on anyone else no matter how right you think you are. Based on my current understanding now I think that Q is a psyop but I would never try to censor people who don’t agree with me.

[ThePythonicCow]

Poll or no poll, I don’t agree with closing any Q or any other threads.
Bill and the mods, including myself, all agree with you, as Bill just wrote in his opening post of The 'Q' poll (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?107183-The-Q-poll&p=1293646&viewfull=1#post1293646) thread.

[onawah]

Gaia, David Wilcock, Corey Goode and a lot of other disinfo agents get a lot of attention too.
It doesn't mean they are a reliable, verifiable source of information any more than popular channelers, snake oil salesmen or mainstream news.
If the number of hits that Avalon threads get is really what determines what goes on here, that could put Avalon into a category similar to the above.
It's the quality and veracity of the information presented here, not the popularity that has made Avalon an outstanding forum.
People without discernment outnumber those with it, but fortunately, it's always been a minority of people with vision who have led the way to change for the better.
And it's because Avalon is a moderated forum that has helped insure it's longevity.

I consider Q to be a psyop and would much prefer that it not be a topic of discussion here. Trump has proven himself to be pro-war, pro-vaccines, pro-5G, a destroyer of the environment, a foe of real journalists like Julian Assange, a friend of corptocracy, and more.
update: Oh yeah, and Jared Kushner, Trump's senior advisor, is set to attend this year’s Bilderberg Meeting.

But if the Mods are willing to continue to reprimand Qultists while those who continue to post on that thread refuse to see the sham for what it is, I will just continue to ignore it.
When the Qultists try to derail other threads, however, and the Mods do nothing about it, then I will be thinking again about leaving altogether, as I did when the New Posts were being monopolized by Qultists.
As I imagine others have done and more will do if that turns out to be the case.
And the quality of Avalon will go down.
But I think it's a moot point, because it will get harder and harder for Trump's true colors to be hidden, except to the most diehard Qultists.

[Praxis]

No body was mentioning anything about closing down anythread.

In fact, it was actually Kiwi who mentioned closing this thread down and merging it.

Nobody ever mentioned shutting down the pro Q thread. If you all want to participate in that thread and fantasy, that is your business and the sooner you realize you are being had the better for us all.

Who cares if the pro Q thread has a bunch of views. That just means a bunch of people are people watching or believe it and should check themselves.

[onawah]

Kiwielf wrote: "Secondly, should the Q thread be closed down, " ...here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?107148-Qanon-and-the-Very-Bad-Day-Finally-Arrived-&p=1293633&viewfull=1#post1293633




Nobody ever mentioned shutting down the pro Q thread.

[AriG]

Gaia, David Wilcock, Corey Goode and a lot of other disinfo agents get a lot of attention too.
It doesn't mean they are a reliable, verifiable source of information any more than popular channelers, snake oil salesmen or mainstream news.
If the number of hits that Avalon threads get is really what determines what goes on here, that could put Avalon into a category similar to the above.
It's the quality and veracity of the information presented here, not the popularity that has made Avalon an outstanding forum.
People without discernment outnumber those with it, but fortunately, it's always been a minority of people with vision who have led the way to change for the better.
And it's because Avalon is a moderated forum that has helped insured it's longevity.

I consider Q to be a psyop and would much prefer that it not be a topic of discussion here, and the fact that Trump has proven himself to be pro-war, pro-vaccines, pro-5G, a destroyer of the environment, a foe of real journalists like Julian Assange, a friend of corptocracy, and more.
But if the Mods are not willing to continue to reprimand Qultists and those who will continue to post on that thread refuse to see the sham for what it is, I will just continue to ignore it.
When the Qultists try to derail other threads, however, and the Mods do nothing about it, then I will be thinking again about leaving altogether, as I did when the New Posts were being monopolized by Qultists.
As I imagine others have done and more will do if that turns out to be the case.
And the quality of Avalon will go down.
But I think it's a moot point, because it will get harder and harder for Trump's true colors to be hidden, except to the most diehard Qultists.

Onawah, you are a genius!:thumbsup:

[Jad]

I consider Q to be a psyop and would much prefer that it not be a topic of discussion here

Thank God this is not your forum then! FYI Trump is nothing but an actor like all Presidents before him, and the last one who truly tried to deviate from his script had his brain scattered live on national tv. Do you really think that you would have been less angry now if Hillary was “President”?

[Dennis Leahy]

...

Why not do a poll? :idea:

If the majority of Avalon members want the Q thread closed down, who am I to argue? (And if so, by all means, close it down)! :thumbsup:

...
Terrible idea, shutting down that thread. Not a consideration. You, and others - really, all of us - need to see it to the end.

Personally, I'm not all that astounded that people want to follow Q - it's intrigue, cloak and dagger, with the baddest of bad guys and the goodest of good guys in the script, with puzzles to solve along the way. Fun! What astounds me is that sane people that have a compassionate heart would follow trump, and that you could allow Q to tell you that guliani and bolton are good guys - and some of you fell for it. That's worthy of some self reflection regarding discernment, once you figure out that no, trump, guilani, and bolton are not good guys.

If Q is responsible for casting a cloak of invisibility around the actual actions of trump, to enable some people to eternally excuse ALL of trump's ACTIONS and his WORDS that amount to following the exact same militarist/imperialist/zionist agenda as obama and bush, who are unflinchingly called the deep state, then Q has done an amazing job. Q is a PR wizard: somehow, trump doing the exact same deep state sh!t is not deep state! The most overt zionist that has ever sat in the big chair in the oval office is somehow cleansed of his zionist reality by the power of Q's propaganda gambit. So, that is the power of Q. That Q could hold the illusion that trump is the sneaky Columbo/Kasperov super-secret-agent double-agent American hero that any minute now, any minute now, any minute now, is going to start doing such a bunch of good things that our heads will spin with delight. This boorish jackass sociopathic two-bit mobster is going to do a 180° turn any minute now. Any minute now. Any minute now. Q is a public relations genius!

No, the Q thread needs to go on and on and on and on and on. It is the current Project Avalon discernment testing ground.

[onawah]

I am quite aware that Trump is nothing but an actor--a terrible one at that, almost as bad as Dubya, and his vocabulary is even more limited--not really the sign of an intelligent person.
I'm not at all angry that he is POTUS instead of HRC, and never was.
It becomes more obvious every day that what we got in Trump was the better of two very bad choices.
But that hardly makes him a hero or a savior.
Imho, he's just another player for the particular faction of the elite that he is being supported to represent, while Q covers up what is really going on with a lot of distraction and hope porn for those who can't or won't face reality.
Agreed, the last one who truly tried to deviate from his script had his brain scattered live on national tv, but should that make us content with the lesser of two evils?
Or should it make us get busy figuring out how to change that very limiting scenario?
Not by accepting the evil, but finding another way.
Which I doubt is going to come via politics, a very controlled game for a very long time, but by refusing anymore to let politics decide for us what our choices will be.
In other words: SNAP OUT OF IT!!!



I consider Q to be a psyop and would much prefer that it not be a topic of discussion here

Thank God this is not your forum then! FYI Trump is nothing but an actor like all Presidents before him, and the last one who truly tried to deviate from his script had his brain scattered live on national tv. Do you really think that you would have been less angry now if Hillary was “President”?

[Daozen]

I don't think I mentioned shutting down the Q thread either. As others have noted, Kiwi was the first to mention subtly silencing this thread by merging it. He then, with no sense of guilt or irony, played the censorship card when he got caught on the back foot.

I don't think the Q thread should be shut down... but it is sinister, distractive, delusional, and a sustained, premeditated attempt to bring discord, confusion and ill will to Project Avalon and beyond. Anyway, I will drop this for now as I don't want to get caught up in it.

Who cares about numbers? They can be artificially inflated with bots anyway. If you want numbers, post a Miley Cyrus video.

[Mark]

No, the Q thread needs to go on and on and on and on and on. It is the current Project Avalon discernment testing ground.

It seems to be an exercise in discernment. Actions versus words. While the "Qultists" (thank you, whoever coined that term) seize upon every perceived confirmation of a Q prediction no matter how indirect or obscure, the direct and apparent actions of the primary actors continue to conform to known Deep State patterns and interests. Without Q, the AltRight Intelligentsia might have long abandoned Drumpf as his true alignments became clear. It is actually different "Departments of the Deep State", at war with each other. An endless, multidimensional, bureaucratic nightmare of Machiavellian dimensions.

[Franny]

In a few words...RussiaRussiaRussia is the distraction for the left and Q is the distraction for the right. Keep the audience distracted from the larger spectrum of issues and mainly focused on, and talking about, the customized distractions.

[onawah]

Mueller says his Russia report did not exonerate Trump
CBS Evening News
Published on May 29, 2019

"In his first public statement about the special counsel investigation, Robert Mueller explained why his office never considered the president for obstruction of justice.
He pointed to policy, saying charging the president with a crime was "not an option." Paula Reid explains."
-w1HczwCfkg

(Mueller said the evidence he compiled could be used by Congress for other investigations, indictments, and if the impeachment process were to proceed.
So apparently not quite "case closed" as Trump implied.)

[jcking]

As of today, Mueller has resigned from the Department of Justice. There have been no mass arrests. His first public verbal statement in the last two years, the only time he's spoken in public since Q popped up, happened today. And...he sounded pretty critical not just of Russia (for election meddling etc) and Trump, but also (by inference) the legal system guidelines in general for how much his hands were tied. If anything, he sounded a bit resigned (no pun intended) and relieved at the announcement that he'd be returning to private life.

This was...not at all how Q had pitched Mueller for at least the first year of those posts.
Powerful hidden tribunals, an enormous factory of indictments, soldiers at the ready to do the arrests in one fell swoop, etc.
Perhaps his characterization has shifted in the last months?

Anyway, this is to say, by the original goalposts and stated endgames of Q involving the sealed indictments etc etc- as of today, with Mueller's words, it would seem to the casual observer like we could actually finally put this one to bed, no?

Am I missing something? Did the goalposts shift?

[Daozen]

Yes the goalposts shifted. We will be free exactly 2 months from {INSERT TODAY'S DATE}.

Regarding "losing members"- Yes, there would be some members leaving or losing interest if Q was to be sidelined .... likewise, I'm sure there would be some members annoyed if Corey Goode/Blue Avian threads were deprioritized. But we must ask ourselves (using Corey Goode as an example)... do we really need to cater to the feelings of indignant bird worshipers?

It cuts both ways. I've been increasingly uninterested in posting here over the last few months. One of the reasons is that accursed Q thread, or should I say Q tendril , which has wrapped itself so unctuously around every branch and twig of Avalon forest. It is literally asphyxiating the forum. Is that the intention?

Now a hardcore Q-tip might say "who cares Daozen, take your ball and go home". But remember... a few members have noticed the downswing in energy. People are posting less. That thread is one of the reasons.

The battle for the soul of Avalon continues.

[avid]

Hopefully not off-topic, but since the ‘Q’ scenario, and the Corey/Wilcock diversionary stuff appeared, and sapped the energies of real research subjects, then the sadly well-meant but seemingly ego-hijacked visit to Laughlin, despite the well meaning of participants, there has been a depletion of interaction. Laughlin was sadly unintentionally divisive. Now we are missing long-standing contributors who were valuable both technically and in lifestyle choices. Those who could not attend were ‘sidelined’ by attendees.

Posters seem exhausted, some new members were obviously trolls.

Disappointingly some to whom we had generously donated funds either disappeared, or have since turned upon us.

It’s time we switched off some negative threads, and go back to helpful info, contributed to by well-researched members to encourage those in the background with loads to offer, to come forward. Think positively, make a stance with your knowledge, as there are so many still hoping for help and reliable information.

Being a member since the first ‘Camelot’ forum iteration, I have learned so much, have enjoyed amicable correspondence globally, and have been given factual insight - please let’s forge forward positively, and don’t lose the aims and objectives of the Project Avalon forum - “where science and spirituality meet”.

[jcking]

I'd just like to point out that at the current time (since this is where the idea originated), the "Q poll" has 121 responses, of which 72.5% are of the "I don't pay attention/ it's a LARP/ it's a psyop / other things to pay attention to / etc" group, and 27.5% of which are in the "I follow Q (either because it is "true" / it may contain important info / I use my own discernment and follow it)" camps.

So far Bill wasn't too far off with his offhand guess of 4-to-1 (ie 80% to 20%) before the poll was created.

Of course more time/data will help, though I'd guess some people who truly are in the "don't care" camp will not care enough to take the poll at all.

[Daozen]

I definitely don't agree with censoring any post. I am against censorship 'cept in extreme cases. But with a 4 to 1 DO NOT WANT:WANT ratio, we could maybe think about putting that thread into the "uncertain info" section, where it would not sit there mocking us all from the top of new posts. The community has spoken.

Regardless of what happens, I realized polls are a good way to gauge forum sentiment. Better than a 20 page food fight.

[Jayke]

It cuts both ways. I've been increasingly uninterested in posting here over the last few months. One of the reasons is that accursed Q thread, or should I say Q tendril , which has wrapped itself so unctuously around every branch and twig of Avalon forest. It is literally asphyxiating the forum. Is that the intention?

Now a hardcore Q-tip might say "who cares Daozen, take your ball and go home". But remember... a few members have noticed the downswing in energy. People are posting less. That thread is one of the reasons.

The battle for the soul of Avalon continues.

The Q thread is one of the only threads that still has a lot of vibrancy to it, with so many new videos and commentary being posted I haven’t had time to follow it since January (since a torn rotator cuff injury! All my free time has been spent in physio or in the gym for recovery, until recently).

To blame one thread for the downswing in energy is giving the Q phenomenon too much credit. Personally, I just don’t think a hell of a lot has been going on in the geopolitical sphere. The Nefarium isnt giving us much to analyse. Different deep state factions are in a stalemate holding pattern and no one knows which direction things are going to take when the stalemate finally breaks.

The attempted coup in Venezuala was a failure. ISIS lost its grip in Syria. Iran is too strong and too secure to be phased by America’s posturing. For all the talk, bluster and bickering — in terms of action — things have been fairly stagnant, not just on Avalon, but on the grand chessboard altogether. Which means, it’s a good time to take care of business at home, get things in order on a personal level, have a little spring clean and prepare for any battles about to arrive (like the roll out of 5G).

The poll clearly shows the Q followers are in a 4:1 minority. How is it possible then that Trump getting a free pass on Assange is somehow the fault of the fringe Q followers? Do the anti-Q cultists not have any organising skill among themselves, with their 4:1 advantage, to get a movement going that bypasses the Q phenomenon altogether?

As Buckminster Fuller said: “You never change things by fighting against the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”

[ThePythonicCow]

But with a 4 to 1 DO NOT WANT:WANT ratio
The 1 to 4 ratio was for do or don't follow, not for do or don't want on this forum.

My guess is that most of the many valued topics covered on this forum have an even smaller proportion of followers than that.

[KiwiElf]

Another thing to keep in mind with Opinion Polls, is they are just that - opinions - uninformed or otherwise. (No indication whatsoever of what formed those opinions).

It's well known in the marketing Industry that respondents often lie about their answers in Opinion Polls and tick the "perceived popular choice" (research the infamous "Have you smoked Marijuana?" Polls; sure they're going to answer "YES" (not))

Amazing how many members clicked the negative boxes on this one, and yet we see them lurking on the Q thread regularly. (... particularly from the "not interested" category).

And btw, THIS Q poll IS loaded by approved research standards: ie

"I don't know how Q started. But focusing on Q is at best a distraction from important real issues" - at best, important and real are ALL subjective, that's an absolute no, no! (... and you rarely - if ever show their names* - that will automatically bias the results). :thumbsdown:

The way it should be worded is:

"I don't know how Q started. But focusing on Q is a distraction from other issues".

Just sayin' ... ;)

EDIT:

* This might be one of the few times I'll actually agree with you, Praxis! :thumbsup: ;)

[jcking]

No offense, but do you always use bold lettering for emphasis all over your posts? As someone who is supposedly from New Zealand, why do you have such a zealous interest in our politics? Do you realize that to many people, Q looks like a giant Encyclopedia Brown novella tailor-built for backward Hardy Boys enthusiasts? As many here and elsewhere have basically said earlier (for years), if it looks, sounds, smells, tastes, runs on and on for years evolving to suit the political needs of the day, and has tons of debunked info like a psyop, it's probably a psyop...

Or perhaps this is somehow the first time in all of recorded history we should all be rallying around our president, the Israeli prime minister, the heads of the Saudi royal dynasty, and a bunch of rogue agents in our military and our confidential programs, who are also apparently ready for a huge undemocratic coup at the drop of a hat. C'mon. How the heck does that not sound like a propaganda campaign run by or based around some of the sh*ttiest people in the entire world?

[AutumnW]

Backward Hardly Boys! Omg, that was funny! Sorry Kiwi, I can't help myself. Laughing so hard

[Daozen]

Another thing to keep in mind with Opinion Polls, is they are just that - opinions - uninformed or otherwise. (No indication whatsoever of what formed those opinions).

It's well known in the marketing Industry that respondents often lie about their answers in Opinion Polls and tick the "perceived popular choice" (research the infamous "Have you smoked Marijuana?" Polls; sure they're going to answer "YES" (not))

Amazing how many members clicked the negative boxes on this one, and yet we see them lurking on the Q thread regularly. (... particularly from the "not interested" category).

And btw, THIS Q poll IS loaded by approved research standards: ie

"I don't know how Q started. But focusing on Q is at best a distraction from important real issues" - at best, important and real are ALL subjective, that's an absolute no, no! (... and you rarely - if ever show their names* - that will automatically bias the results). :thumbsdown:

The way it should be worded is:

"I don't know how Q started. But focusing on Q is a distraction from other issues".

Just sayin' ... ;)

EDIT:

* This might be one of the few times I'll actually agree with you, Praxis! :thumbsup: ;)

Well that was a masterpiece of doubletalk.

[Praxis]

Hopefully not off-topic, but since the ‘Q’ scenario, and the Corey/Wilcock diversionary stuff appeared, and sapped the energies of real research subjects, then the sadly well-meant but seemingly ego-hijacked visit to Laughlin, despite the well meaning of participants, there has been a depletion of interaction. Laughlin was sadly unintentionally divisive. Now we are missing long-standing contributors who were valuable both technically and in lifestyle choices. Those who could not attend were ‘sidelined’ by attendees.

Posters seem exhausted, some new members were obviously trolls.

Disappointingly some to whom we had generously donated funds either disappeared, or have since turned upon us.

It’s time we switched off some negative threads, and go back to helpful info, contributed to by well-researched members to encourage those in the background with loads to offer, to come forward. Think positively, make a stance with your knowledge, as there are so many still hoping for help and reliable information.

Being a member since the first ‘Camelot’ forum iteration, I have learned so much, have enjoyed amicable correspondence globally, and have been given factual insight - please let’s forge forward positively, and don’t lose the aims and objectives of the Project Avalon forum - “where science and spirituality meet”.

Mind catching some of us up on this drama? Who are we talking about here? Is this in reference to that Fire donation that happened?

[avid]

Paradise lost....
Sadly, I really miss Sierra and news of her desperately-sought black cat. This was a heartbreaking issue for all of us. We gladly donated and really hope she and her family are safe, well, and recovering. Some news would be wondrous.

Geof and his daughters barely escaped, and we were horrified yet again by the dreadful scenarios. Since then, he has stated he has plenty of money in that contentious thread, which he recently quit and resigned from Avalon. Disappointment, puzzling attitudes, made me sad.

However, we open our eyes afresh, if anyone needs help, we are fairly quick to respond, and even those who suddenly stop posting are usually followed up on to ensure they are OK. We have a collection of amazingly good hearts.

[ThePythonicCow]

I don't think I mentioned shutting down the Q thread either. As others have noted, Kiwi was the first to mention subtly silencing this thread by merging it. He then, with no sense of guilt or irony, played the censorship card when he got caught on the back foot.

I don't think the Q thread should be shut down... but it is sinister, distractive, delusional, and a sustained, premeditated attempt to bring discord, confusion and ill will to Project Avalon and beyond. Anyway, I will drop this for now as I don't want to get caught up in it.

Who cares about numbers? They can be artificially inflated with bots anyway. If you want numbers, post a Miley Cyrus video.

You got a bit lucky, Daozen.

Your above emotionally provocative insults of those participating in a particular thread on this forum are way past the guidelines for this forum.

However that particular thread is a controversial topic, entangled with some other matters that the moderators were and are considering.

So no consensus has been arrived at, so far anyway, amongst the forum moderators, regarding how or whether to moderate this particular post of yours. So I am taking it upon myself to inform yourself that such is unacceptable here, and to explain to other members who might be wondering why this post has not been moderated further.

Emotionally provocative insults of other members, whether individually or by identifiable groups (such as in this case the posters to the main Q thread) are not allowed under our forum guidelines;

[Praxis]

I don't think I mentioned shutting down the Q thread either. As others have noted, Kiwi was the first to mention subtly silencing this thread by merging it. He then, with no sense of guilt or irony, played the censorship card when he got caught on the back foot.

I don't think the Q thread should be shut down... but it is sinister, distractive, delusional, and a sustained, premeditated attempt to bring discord, confusion and ill will to Project Avalon and beyond. Anyway, I will drop this for now as I don't want to get caught up in it.

Who cares about numbers? They can be artificially inflated with bots anyway. If you want numbers, post a Miley Cyrus video.

You got a bit lucky, Daozen.

Your above emotionally provocative insults of those participating in a particular thread on this forum are way past the guidelines for this forum.

However that particular thread is a controversial topic, entangled with some other matters that the moderators were and are considering.

So no consensus has been arrived at, so far anyway, amongst the forum moderators, regarding how or whether to moderate this particular post of yours. So I am taking it upon myself to inform yourself that such is unacceptable here, and to explain to other members who might be wondering why this post has not been moderated further.

Emotionally provocative insults of other members, whether individually or by identifiable groups (such as in this case the posters to the main Q thread) are not allowed under our forum guidelines;

UM Sorry but this post DOES NOT belong in this thread. You are chiding him for something that is happening in a different thread?

Sorry but no Paul.

If anything it belongs in either the Mod Actions thread or in that ACTUAL thread you are referencing.



EDIT*
I wanted to add an on topic part to this post so here we go:

Remember when the CIA was forced by the president to Release all the JFK files as mandated by law thereby disclosing many crimes that have been committed in relation to that event which caused a Very bad day for the bad people that carried out and planned that murder?

Im so happy that we finally got the public momentum from that disclosure to start a new investigation, a public and open investigation of one of the greatest crimes of the last 100 years.
Hopefully after that we can finally address 9-11. Who knows, Maybe when the plan is successful and Assange is dead thereby releasing his dead man switch(go plan; sorry Assange!) then we can start a real investigation in the most recent attacks on the American people, mind and body.

[ThePythonicCow]

UM Sorry but this post DOES NOT belong in this thread. You are chiding him for something that is happening in a different thread?

I was chiding Daozen for what he wrote, in what I quoted, from this thread, such as these words:
but it [the Q thread] is sinister, distractive, delusional, and a sustained, premeditated attempt to bring discord, confusion and ill will to Project Avalon and beyond.

[Daozen]

I don't think I mentioned shutting down the Q thread either. As others have noted, Kiwi was the first to mention subtly silencing this thread by merging it. He then, with no sense of guilt or irony, played the censorship card when he got caught on the back foot.

I don't think the Q thread should be shut down... but it is sinister, distractive, delusional, and a sustained, premeditated attempt to bring discord, confusion and ill will to Project Avalon and beyond. Anyway, I will drop this for now as I don't want to get caught up in it.

Who cares about numbers? They can be artificially inflated with bots anyway. If you want numbers, post a Miley Cyrus video.

You got a bit lucky, Daozen.

Your above emotionally provocative insults of those participating in a particular thread on this forum are way past the guidelines for this forum.

However that particular thread is a controversial topic, entangled with some other matters that the moderators were and are considering.

So no consensus has been arrived at, so far anyway, amongst the forum moderators, regarding how or whether to moderate this particular post of yours. So I am taking it upon myself to inform yourself that such is unacceptable here, and to explain to other members who might be wondering why this post has not been moderated further.

Emotionally provocative insults of other members, whether individually or by identifiable groups (such as in this case the posters to the main Q thread) are not allowed under our forum guidelines;

Hi Paul. Apologies, you may remove the post if you want.

[AutumnW]

No offense, but do you always use bold lettering for emphasis all over your posts? As someone who is supposedly from New Zealand, why do you have such a zealous interest in our politics? Do you realize that to many people, Q looks like a giant Encyclopedia Brown novella tailor-built for backward Hardy Boys enthusiasts? As many here and elsewhere have basically said earlier (for years), if it looks, sounds, smells, tastes, runs on and on for years evolving to suit the political needs of the day, and has tons of debunked info like a psyop, it's probably a psyop...

Or perhaps this is somehow the first time in all of recorded history we should all be rallying around our president, the Israeli prime minister, the heads of the Saudi royal dynasty, and a bunch of rogue agents in our military and our confidential programs, who are also apparently ready for a huge undemocratic coup at the drop of a hat. C'mon. How the heck does that not sound like a propaganda campaign run by or based around some of the sh*ttiest people in the entire world?

Jcking---Do you think it's because Kiwi from New ZEAL land?:happythumbsup:

[ThePythonicCow]

While the "Qultists" (thank you, whoever coined that term) seize upon every perceived confirmation of a Q prediction no matter how indirect or obscure ...
It would be a bit ironic if the Q skeptics seized upon every confirmation that the Qultists are all suffering from selection bias, ignoring changing complexities to the contrary.

We all need to watch out that we aren't selectively biased in our observations.

I suspect you would agree with me that we humans (and most species for that matter) tend to divide into groups along key issues or characteristics, and then to paint both those on "their" side, but especially on the "other" side, with an overly broad brush. It seems that the "smarter" the species, the more pronounced this tendency.

I further suspect that the elite bastards habitually leverage this tendency to whip up and control the masses, in ways that support their aims, whether or not beneficial to the masses.

Remain subtle.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Hi Paul. Apologies, you may remove the post if you want.
For the moment, your post, to part of which I objected, is serving as a useful example for a point I thought worth making.

So my inclination is to leave that post of yours as it is.

[Daozen]

Hi Paul. Apologies, you may remove the post if you want.
For the moment, your post, to part of which I objected, is serving as a useful example for a point I thought worth making.

So my inclination is to leave that post of yours as it is.

Understood. Please follow your inclinations as you desire. Best Wishes.

[ThePythonicCow]

Remember when the CIA was forced by the president to Release all the JFK files ...
I don't remember that day.

My vague and unexamined recollection is that while there may be on occasion public mandates, from such bodies as Congress or the President, to make full releases of material regarding a controversial event, there are however far fewer, if any, actual, full and incriminating releases.

[AutumnW]

Paul,

People split things into friend or foe easily as it has historically been necessary. Past a certain point its counterproductive....agreed. The whole issue with Central Americans and Mexicans crossing the border comes down to a quick 'friend or foe' analysis that breaks along the same lines. Middle class, self employed, small business owners who benefit from cheap labor in construction, nannies etc...view illegals as their friends. People who have to compete as wages are driven down by employers taking advantage of powerless people, see illegal immigrants as foe.

Those who view illegals as foe are susceptible to the machinations of demigogues, like Trump, and all the attendant manipulations, theatrics and what I view as nonsense. And while Trump's adherents are preoccupied with side issues, the federal government is busy preparing to gut social programs that they themselves are likely to be dependent on. This is the sleight of hand.

The real 4 dimensional chess moves are plans to undercut your own base, while they are amusing themselves with Q anon. Proposed cuts to medicare, social security? Those aren't things that happen to the other guy. That's going to affect his base in a pretty big way. But...it's all going to play out after the election---while military budgets increase with space wars and all the other nonsense.

[Daozen]

For the moment, your post, to part of which I objected, is serving as a useful example for a point I thought worth making.

So my inclination is to leave that post of yours as it is.

And Paul, you are the honored technician at a campfire meeting of like minded souls, not demon prince of a small city. Please treat people with a little kindness in future. Without kindness we have nothing. We're all equals here. But thanks for the server work and health info. Goodbye!

[ThePythonicCow]

And while Trump's adherents are preoccupied with side issues, the federal government is busy preparing to gut social programs that they themselves are likely to be dependent on.
My sole income is a Social Security check, and my sole potentially affordable medical insurance is Medicare Part "A" (hospital insurance I get for free) and Medicare Part "B" (doctor insurance for which I refuse to pay even the minimal $100 or $200 per month.)

I support "gutting" (reducing substantially, albeit slowly) both these programs. Financially, we, the people of the U.S., have no practical alternative.

I would support "gutting" these programs more quickly, but most other elderly Americans on these programs would be severely stressed by such a move.

[AutumnW]

Paul,

Wouldn't you rather see the military, which sucks up over 40% of the budget, gutted before medicare? What about pharmacare? Do you think as you age you might need some medicine?

[AutumnW]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94907-Trump-is-NOT-the-answer/page45

Onawah has a link about the proposed changes here and Catherine Austin Fitts focussed on this issue Greg Hunter's June 1 youtube video on the thread, "All Things Catherine Austin Fitts."

[ThePythonicCow]

Paul,

Wouldn't you rather see the military, which sucks up over 40% of the budget, gutted before medicare? What about pharmacare? Do you think as you age you might need some medicine?
If I were dictator for a day, with unlimited powers and abilities, I'd gut most of the US Federal Government, starting with most of the Defense Dept and all of the CIA, and including all of several other cabinet level Departments. Social Security and Medicare would get off easy, getting only a long, slow, decline, so that our elderly had half a chance to adapt. The Unemployment Benefits department (whatever that is) would be hiring however, to handle all the suddenly unemployed federal government and contract workers.

[Dennis Leahy]

While the "Qultists" (thank you, whoever coined that term) seize upon every perceived confirmation of a Q prediction no matter how indirect or obscure ...
It would be a bit ironic if the Q skeptics seized upon every confirmation that the Qultists are all suffering from selection bias, ignoring changing complexities to the contrary.

We all need to watch out that we aren't selectively biased in our observations.

I suspect you would agree with me that we humans (and most species for that matter) tend to divide into groups along key issues or characteristics, and then to paint both those on "their" side, but especially on the "other" side, with an overly broad brush. It seems that the "smarter" the species, the more pronounced this tendency.

I further suspect that the elite bastards habitually leverage this tendency to whip up and control the masses, in ways that support their aims, whether or not beneficial to the masses.

Remain subtle.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Hi Paul. Apologies, you may remove the post if you want.
For the moment, your post, to part of which I objected, is serving as a useful example for a point I thought worth making.

So my inclination is to leave that post of yours as it is.

I think the Q thread participants are getting lumped into a cult rather than being seen as a group of individuals because that thread has always been impenetrable by outsiders, dismissed en masse with the requirement to play along from the beginning. Outsiders who wanted to know what the hell this Q thing is all about and stuck their nose into that thread consistently had their noses bitten. "Start from the beginning! Then you'll understand what we understand!" didn't help, and created the Insiders/Outsiders boundary. So you have a group of Insiders with special knowledge (that they earned by going through all of the material, sequentially.) Can you see from the Outsiders perspective that a group of people with some special knowledge gets seen as a "cult?"

The title of the thread sets the urgent tone that something big was just about to happen. ""Very Bad Day" Scenario for some elite swamp critters" That was October of 2017. Comeuppance for the elite? Swamp monsters going down? Every member of Avalon is listening... but only the Insiders have earned the knowledge.

October of 2017 to June 2019: A year and a half later, there are swamp critters in every position of governance, Bloodthirsty Bolton became the tip of Trump's spear, threats/foreshadowing to Iran, a full (first or second stage) attack on Venezuela in progress, (to highlight a few of the low lights), ... and Q tells his followers that Trump and his crew are the good guys, so keep supporting Trump. It would be funny if it wasn't so deadly. The Outsiders call bullsh!t, formally known as propaganda.

Now we see an outpouring of emotion from the Outsiders that see Q as malevolent, as well as stringing along some of our online friends/compatriots in a never-ending distracting deception. I see it as kind of like a drug/alcohol intervention, where the Outsiders are trying to help the Insiders and the frustration of our inability to do so is bursting out (and, the Insiders don't want help - they want to be left alone.) Some of the Outsiders are embarrassed by having Q be a "front page" topic at Avalon, as they might be embarrassed by having the Blue Avian cult or the Flat Earth cult be a "front page" topic at Avalon.

Most of the frustrated (or irritated, or disgusted) members who are Outsiders have been very good about expressing discontent about the Q influence on the forum (which is wider than mere acceptance of Q's authenticity, due to Q's dismissing the heinous actions of the president of the US and his henchmen), and a few have snapped.

[Daozen]

post deleted...

[ThePythonicCow]

Outsiders who wanted to know what the hell this Q thing is all about and stuck their nose into that thread consistently had their noses bitten. "Start from the beginning! Then you'll understand what we understand!" didn't help, and created the Insiders/Outsiders boundary. So you have a group of Insiders with special knowledge (that they earned by going through all of the material, sequentially.) Can you see from the Outsiders perspective that a group of people with some special knowledge gets seen as a "cult?"
A fair concern, though it's my recollection that, at least in the last six months, there has no longer been such "cultic elitist" dismissal, directly stated by Avalon members, against non-Qultist Avalon members, on the main Q thread.

[Dennis Leahy]

Outsiders who wanted to know what the hell this Q thing is all about and stuck their nose into that thread consistently had their noses bitten. "Start from the beginning! Then you'll understand what we understand!" didn't help, and created the Insiders/Outsiders boundary. So you have a group of Insiders with special knowledge (that they earned by going through all of the material, sequentially.) Can you see from the Outsiders perspective that a group of people with some special knowledge gets seen as a "cult?"
A fair concern, though it's my recollection that, at least in the last six months, there has no longer been such "cultic elitist" dismissal, directly stated by Avalon members, against non-Qultist Avalon members, on the main Q thread.

It is a thread nearly 10,000 posts long, and I suspect none of us "Outsiders" could possibly pick up on that change of heart (or tactic) of the Q thread participants, by popping into the thread occasionally and reading a few current posts. I also don't think it would be likely to see individuals arguing about Q's malevolence or benevolence in that thread, but rather an unspoken acceptance that Q is a good guy... and then, on to the task of understanding the hidden knowledge to be gained from the latest Q drop. Maybe this Outsider's view is wrong, and there is a vibrant debate in that thread not about Q's legitimacy, but of Q's insistence that what I see as some of the worst people on the planet (Trump, Bolton, Giuliani, Abrams, Haspel, Pompeo) are good guys. If there is no such active debate, and the default is to trust Q, then I'd have to say that behavior appears cultish as well.

[ThePythonicCow]

If there is no such active debate, and the default is to trust Q, then I'd have to say that behavior appears cultish as well.
From my perspective, there is such debate, by several, including myself.

However that's a subjective, and potentially self-serving, judgement.

I will not endeavor to persuade you to see the world as I do ... I've tilted at my fair share of windmills in my day, but none that challenging.

Our two minds work quite differently, and we are both doubtlessly grateful that's so :bearhug:

[Praxis]

Paul,

If you would vote to eliminate medicare and social security and you take the money that comes from those programs then that makes you a hypocrite.

If you were ideologically consistent, you would reject that money on principle. It blows my mind that someone in your position would hold such openly hostile views to your own interests. You literally have no other source of income but government aid and you want to bite that hand.

You are right there is no day where JFK files came out because I was being sarcastic because Trump did the opposite. I was making the same point that Dennis was making yet albeit with much more snark. Because like he says, I have made points like that(also expanding and sending more to GITMO) just to be told something along the lines of: Trust the plan. Even just a simply " Yeah you are right, we should close GITMO because it is morally repugnant for more than one reason so the president made a mistake on that". Which is assuming that you actually do find Guantanamo Bay Prison to be morally repugnant, which if not you are windmill I will stop tilting at.

And you just bullied Daozen into changing his posts because you didnt like that he called the thread sinister and whatever because you are a MOD. Then you implied he was in the process of being kicked.
He didnt even say the people, he said the thread was basically propaganda that divides and so he doesn't like it(paraphrasing).

[onawah]

I would say that was more because those of us who were concerned about the Qult-like behavior stuck to our principles and voiced our concerns then until the Mods gave some ultimatums that worked, hopefully setting the precedent , and not necessarily because the Qult has become less cult-like now.


A fair concern, though it's my recollection that, at least in the last six months, there has no longer been such "cultic elitist" dismissal, directly stated by Avalon members, against non-Qultist Avalon members, on the main Q thread.

[Gracy]

Maybe this Outsider's view is wrong, and there is a vibrant debate in that thread not about Q's legitimacy, but of Q's insistence that what I see as some of the worst people on the planet (Trump, Bolton, Giuliani, Abrams, Haspel, Pompeo) are good guys.

Thats a very good point,

it seems a lot of mental gymnastics are needed to square that circle you are pointing out Dennis.

For the sake of arguement it would be fair to leave Trump's name out for now because present time is much more difficult to gauge, but the others you mention have track records omg, is this just like the waiting for Obama to pull a Clark Kent, don the cape, and become mr. superman lightworker that was only acting under cover biding his time for the big sting?

[onawah]

I wonder what that would look like: "Social Security and Medicare would get off easy, getting only a long, slow, decline, so that our elderly had half a chance to adapt."
Something like when Reagan kicked all the mental patients out of the hospitals onto the streets, perhaps?
With a half a chance to adapt, I suppose someone like me, who survives on a a small Social Security check alone after being permanently disabled in 1972...would that mean perhaps I would have an opportunity to set up a nice, cozy cardboard box somewhere rather than just sleeping right out on the pavement?
Just get another billion or so "useless eaters" completely impoverished so the rich can enjoy their playground uninterrupted is that the idea?
(They wouldn't be too bothered by this kind of scene getting multiplied exponentially, after all, since they are reserving all the best rural areas for themselves via Agenda 21:
lI0OQkJvEaY
And never mind how "penny wise, pound foolish that kind of "solution" is, as long as the upper classes are happy.
They can just look the other way if they happen to be in the city shopping one day, though eventually they would literally have to have blinders on...because that's how quickly the problem is already growing, without even more draconian measures being taken
And DRACONIAN is exactly the right word, I would say.
And how would the rest of the population "adapt" I wonder, with all those suddenly homeless, sick, starving, and unemployed people suddenly living on the streets...
All in the spirit of "A Modest Proposal".
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41S%2BPG32xZL._SX302_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Apologies if another member here is "snapping" back a little! :croc:




Paul,

Wouldn't you rather see the military, which sucks up over 40% of the budget, gutted before medicare? What about pharmacare? Do you think as you age you might need some medicine?
If I were dictator for a day, with unlimited powers and abilities, I'd gut most of the US Federal Government, starting with most of the Defense Dept and all of the CIA, and including all of several other cabinet level Departments. Social Security and Medicare would get off easy, getting only a long, slow, decline, so that our elderly had half a chance to adapt. The Unemployment Benefits department (whatever that is) would be hiring however, to handle all the suddenly unemployed federal government and contract workers.

[ThePythonicCow]

I wonder what that would look like ...
In my youth, long ago and in a galaxy far away, local community charities and charitable people looked out for each other in hard times.


And never mind how "penny wise, pound foolish that kind of "solution" is, as long as the upper classes are happy.
However my cynical tin-foil-hat adorned conspiratorial mind finds your snapping bite quite fitting.

[onawah]

I've engaged with Daozen via email (not Avalonian PMs, so I think I'm within the forum guidelines disclosing this), and I don't think he would mind me sharing that we both feel like Avalon can be somewhat of a Loosh gathering receptacle, because of the more darkly inclined members (albeit, possibly unwittingly so) who are also members here, at least at times.
It does all depend on how well one keeps one's own energy intact, but just the fact that the playing field here includes at times those who display narcissistic and sociopathic behaviors, can be draining to those of us who are more empathetic.
It's a trade off, choosing whether to use this venue to bring Light to important issues, in the chance that one might also find oneself engaging in a battle of wits with egos having very different inclinations. :decision:

[onawah]

I wonder if you were on the receiving end of that kind of charity these days, how attractive it would look to you.
Ever wonder why some people prefer slow death on the streets?
Of course they probably don't realize what is happening to all those folks who are simply vanishing...:rapture: ...
(I doubt it's due to "rapture"... :evil: :croc: )

Looking at the whole picture, I think an awful lot of the mental and emotional disconnect most people are experiencing to varying degrees can be attributed to something called "The Disintegrated Mind"
See:
https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/the-disintegrated-mind-the-greatest-threat-to-human-survival-on-earth/

...in short, a very limiting inability to connect the dots.
Resulting in compartmentalization of concepts and issues, without any way of intelligently integrating them.
So the individual cannot deal with the most important survival issues comprehensively and effectively.
And instead remains essentially unengaged and seemingly indifferent, even when facing ultimate disaster.



I wonder what that would look like ...
In my youth, long ago and in a galaxy far away, local community charities and charitable people looked out for each other in hard times.


And never mind how "penny wise, pound foolish that kind of "solution" is, as long as the upper classes are happy.
However my cynical tin-foil-hat adorned conspiratorial mind finds your snapping bite quite fitting.

[onawah]

update: Just for the record, I've also advised Daozen that those who have been engaging with him in this conversation are not his enemies.
I try to keep in mind that he is 30 years younger than I ( and perhaps most of us) and therefore must have a very different experience of this world.

I've engaged with Daozen via email (not Avalonian PMs, so I think I'm within the forum guidelines disclosing this), and I don't think he would mind me sharing that we both feel like Avalon can be somewhat of a Loosh gathering receptacle, because of the more darkly inclined members (albeit, possibly unwittingly so) who are also members here, at least at times.
It does all depend on how well one keeps one's own energy intact, but just the fact that the playing field here includes at times those who display narcissistic and sociopathic behaviors, can be draining to those of us who are more empathetic.
It's a trade off, choosing whether to use this venue to bring Light to important issues, in the chance that one might also find oneself engaging in a battle of wits with egos holding very different inclinations. :decision:

[TomKat]

Here is a Stewart Swerdlow interview where he tells a very interesting story explaining why he now believes Q is real, even if Q-anon might be infiltrated. It is que'd to where he talks about it:

https://youtu.be/OXBkSG4bndk?t=1038