What exactly is a 'Luciferian Initiation?'

[Valerie Villars]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7nFd02WsAEhjTA.jpg
[what originated the question in another thread]


I am curious as to just what exactly a Luciferian initiation is. Not that I personally want anything to do with it, but does anyone have any inside knowledge as to what this actually means?

[Jayke]

This may be for another thread, but I am curious as to just what exactly a Luciferian initiation is. Not that I personally want anything to do with it, but does anyone have any inside knowledge as to what this actually means?

There’s a creepy meditation room in the UN where they sit you down to worship in front of a black monolith made of iron. Can’t remember who I heard about it from now but the room is supposed to light up at certain times of day and the monolith has brainwave altering frequencies, some kind of Mithraic-Saturnalian indoctrination rites most likely.

https://apokalypsis.gr/images/synomosiologika/theories/saturn-kybos-un.jpg

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread140982/pg1

Two weeks ago, I was in the United Nations while on my seventh trip to New York City. I stood in the meditation room, which contains Satan's altar. I went into this room to do spiritual warfare and bind devils through the blood of Jesus Christ. The room was designed by the late Secretary General of the UN, Dag Hammerjskold, who said that the black stone monolith or block is "every man's god." The room is 18 feet wide at the entrance, which in numerology is 3 sixes. The room is also 33 feet long and tapers inward to form a truncated pyramid. There is an abstract mural on the front wall, which is full of witchcraft symbols, and in the middle of the room, is a black stone block, which weighs exactly 6.5 tons or 13,000 pounds. The black stone block has a certain kind of magnetism about it, and when I walked into the room with my praying wife, I could sense the intense presence of an evil force beyond description. This is where the world leaders and Illuminati masterminds go to meditate, which is why it is open to the public only in the mornings. Once the sun moves from antemeridiem to post meridiem only the adept in witchcraft are allowed into that room, for that is witchcraft doctrine regarding meditation. As the sun gives way to waning light and the female power of the moon goddess, the meditation room at the UN becomes off-limits to what they call the "profane."

IYBPGC7k9T8

Lucis Trust was founded by Alice Bailey from the Theosophical society:

https://steemit.com/women/@myrevteam/eugenics-education-chapter-4-alice-bailey-and-annie-besant

Bailey founded the Lucis Trust in 1922. It erected a few programs for esoteric education, world goodwill support, magazines and a publishing company. The World Goodwill program was in support of the United Nations. The publishing company founded was “Lucifer Publishing Company” later changed to Lucis Publishing Co. Lusis is a from the same root word as Lucifer meaning light. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Bailey

In response to the September 11 attacks (2001), the Great Invocation (by Baily) was used as a central element of a new daily program at Findhorn known as the "Network of Light meditations for peace". The mantra begins with "From the point of Light within the Mind of God, let light stream forth into the minds of men ..." with the rest of the passage expressing the ideas of love, the return of The Christ (Maitreya) and of men acting in accordance with the plan of God.

Bailey would start another group “Campbell notes that the New Group of World Servers was established for ". . . promotion of international understanding, economic sharing, and religious unity".

“These leaders are known by their harmless, constructive and inclusive qualities. They provide the vision and mould public opinion.”

“Attack on personalities, defamation of character, the imputation of motives and the stirring up of hatred are a recognised part of the technique of those who (frequently with good intention) are attempting to salvage the world, to bring order out of chaos and to defend the right as they see it.”

... ...

You can find the entire plan here: https://www.lucistrust.org/arcane_school/service_the_plan_study_course

And we will now gather a summary:

TAKE GOD AND PRAYER OUT OF THE EDUCATION SYSTEM
She said: “Change curriculum to ensure that children are freed from the bondage of Christian culture. Why? Because children go to school to be equipped to face life, they are willing to trust and they are willing to value what is being given to them.”
“If you take God out of education, they will unconsciously form a resolve that God is not necessary to face life. They will focus on those things the school counts them worthy to be passed on and they will look at God as an additional, if one can afford the additional.”

REDUCE PARENTAL AUTHORITY OVER THE CHILDREN
She said: “Break the communication between parent and child.”(Why?)So that parents do not pass on their Christian traditions to their children, liberate children from the bondage of their parent traditions.” (How?)
Promote excessive child rights
Abolish corporal punishment
Teachers are the agents of implementation

DESTROY THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN FAMILY STRUCTURE OR THE TRADITIONAL CHRISTIAN FAMILY STRUCTURE
(Why?) She said: “It is oppressive and that the family is the core of the nation. If you break the family, you break the nation. Liberate the people from the confines of this structure.” (How?)
Promote sexual promiscuity
Use advertising industry, media –T.V., magazines, film industry to promote sexual enjoyment as the highest pleasure in humanity. (Propaganda)

IF SEX IS FREE, THEN MAKE ABORTION LEGAL AND MAKE IT EASY
She said: “Build clinics for abortion –Health clinics in schools.

MAKE DIVORCE EASY AND LEGAL, FREE PEOPLE FROM THE CONCEPT OF MARRIAGE FOR LIFE.

MAKE HOMOSEXUALITY AN ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLE
Alice Bailey preached that sexual enjoyment is the highest pleasure in humanity, no one must be denied and no one must be restricted how to enjoy themselves. People should be allowed in whichever way they chose they want, whether it is homosexuality or in incest or bestiality, as long as the two agree.

DEBASE ART, MAKE IT RUN MAD
Promote new forms of art which will corrupt and defile the imagination of people

USE MEDIA TO PROMOTE AND CHANGE MINDSET
Alice Bailey said the greatest channel you need to use to change human attitude is media. Use the press, the radio, T.V, cinema.

CREATE AN INTERFAITH MOVEMENT
“Promote other faiths to be at par with Christianity, and break this thing about Christianity as being the only way to heaven, by that Christianity will be pulled down and other faiths promoted. “She said, “Promote the importance of man in determining his own future and destiny” –HUMANISM. “Tell man he has the right to choose what he wants to be and he can make it happen, he has the right to determine his cause”

GET GOVERNMENTS TO MAKE ALL THESE LAW AND GET THE CHURCH TO ENDORSE THESE CHANGES
“...that the church must change its doctrine and accommodate the people by accepting these things and put them into its structures and systems.”

....

Before the satanists got there hands on the arcane stuff though, Luciferian rituals were performed as pyramid rites. The initiate would spend 7 days in the tunnels beneath the pyramids, working their way through the various chambers, to emerge above ground to coincide with the rising of Venus, shortly before the morning sunrise. An old Naga ritual of the Mayan according to Freddy Silva in his latest book The Missing Lands (https://www.amazon.com/Missing-Lands-Uncovering-Pre-flood-Civilization/dp/0578482193).

[Valerie Villars]

But what if you are exposed to the evil presence and you reject it? Is that still a Luciferian initiation?

I guess I'm derailing the thread, which I don't want to do. Thank you Jayke.

[Jayke]

But what if you are exposed to the evil presence and you reject it? Is that still a Luciferian initiation?

I guess I'm derailing the thread, which I don't want to do. Thank you Jayke.

It’s still on topic as the Lucis Trust/Fabian Society, and its German counterpart the Frankfurt School, both had an agenda to create the very social discord the title of this thread is questioning. The Frankfurt schools plan was basically the same as the Fabian Society’s agenda.


To undermine Western civilization, the Frankfurt School called for the most negative and destructive criticism possible of every sphere of life. To de-stabilize society and bring it to its knees, to engineer collapse, to produce crisis and catastrophe — this became the aim of these maladjusted and mentally sick Jewish revolutionaries masquerading as high-powered intellectuals.

Their policies, they hoped, would spread like a virus — “continuing the work of the Western Marxists by other means”, as one of their members noted.

To further the advance of their “quiet” cultural revolution, the Frankfurt School made the following twelve recommendations — all of them calculated to undermine the foundations of society and create the dystopia we now see all around us:

1. The creation of racism offences and hate speech laws.
2. Continual change to create confusion (e,g., in school curricula).
3. Masturbation propaganda in schools, combined with the homosexualization of children and their corruption by exposing them to child porn in the classroom.
4. The systematic undermining of parental and teachers’ authority.
5. Huge immigration to destroy national identity and foment future race wars.
6. The systematic promotion of excessive drinking and recreational drugs.
7. The systematic promotion of sexual deviance in society.
8. An unreliable legal system with bias against the victims of crime.
9. Dependency on state benefits.
10. Control and dumbing down of media.
11. Encouraging the breakdown of the family.
12. All all-out attack on Christianity and the emptying of churches.

By time an initiate rises through the freemasonic ranks to be initiated at the altar of Satan, they’re most likely devoted servants of mammon (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammon) by then anyway. A person of noble character could easily reject an evil presence, but a person of noble character would unlikely be chosen to experience those initiations to begin with.

Lucifer ‘the light bringer’, Apollo, Baal, Mithra, Ahura Mazda. The inner light of gnostic illumination leads to knowledge that’s spiritually neutral, how that knowledge is applied is determined by the character of each initiate. Hence the black and white tiles on the Masonic chessboard.

[Valerie Villars]

But, would it be possible that by reading the Masonic Scottish Rite by Albert Pike, just because you were curious, lead to knowledge of same? And then rejected in a whirlwind of spiritual illumination? Among other things read and absorbed over a lifetime? Not all were rejected. The Gospel of Thomas for instance.

[Satori]

But, would it be possible that by reading the Masonic Scottish Rite by Albert Pike, just because you were curious, lead to knowledge of same? And then rejected in a whirlwind of spiritual illumination? Among other things read and absorbed over a lifetime? Not all were rejected. The Gospel of Thomas for instance.

I have a copy of Morals and Dogma, which is attributed to Albert Pike. (It is to a large extent the work of Pike, but as the book itself makes clear, it's teachings are the ideas, concepts and work of many people collected and recorded over time.) It was given to me by a Mason, now deceased.

I have read it, even studied it, three times. I am not a Mason and I have never been approached to become one. But, to some extent I have acquired some knowledge of Masonry by reading the book. To be candid, there is little in the book that I disagree with. It is at its core a call to be the best at what you chose to be, to do good not harm, and to work well with others while making your way in life in a productive manner.

As pointed out by Jayke in post #4 on this thread, their is a duality at play and what one becomes (and Is) depends in significant measure on the degree to which one stands and acts in the dark (black square) or in the light (white square).

[shaberon]

I largely agree with Satori, the book is a fairly ordinary cross-section of mythology, a lot of it is somewhat on track, but as with most things I would not call it an initiated work. Lucifer was one of the first bishops of the Roman church. The way is works is that Morals are required for the masonic degrees, and the Dogma are associated ideas to study which are not necessarily definitive or doctrinal. This book was freely offered in the Southern Jurisdiction, and it was available elsewhere, but gained little traction.

I also agree that the Fabian--Alice Bailey strand is potently dangerous. I know that from the inside and have to conclude most of the participants are unaware about it in the same way that most Americans are unaware in general. I figured something was a bit off there early on, and from scouring it heavily, I can see very many ways in which this is definitely not our system, and is most likely the Jesuit version. The West does not have the system, it only has conflicting ideas based on fragments of Isis and Osiris, and lacks Neith and the rest.

As far as the name Lucifer or what anyone means by it, that could be several things. I suppose you could say I have personal knowledge from several different kinds of Satanists, not cryptos but the ones who call themselves such. And immediately in relation to that I have to say that there are indeed many cryptos who are on the insurance boards, education board, regular churches, there are Satanists in those places doing stuff. But there are many other kinds and some of them are more like Santeria. A lot of them are just atheists. Some of them are fairly nice people and some are casting black magic for destruction and power. Most of it works because you give it power. That is the assumption that the insurance board or the U. N. is in charge. The most dangerous parts are basic subliminal suggestions like that. Then if your mental anxiety starts forming monsters in the hellfire, that's what you'll have. But if you dismiss this thing, it's rather weak.

Classically speaking, Lucifer is Venus, and so the underlying concept is that Venus is the spiritual big sister to Earth, and so, spiritually, if it will help anyone to call me Luciferian, go ahead. In this case, it means something far different than those other examples. So I don't really use the word. Energy is neutral and I find no devil other than man. The holy person is one whom instead can walk amongst all the dark and demonic forces in nature and there is no effect on the person and the others become tamed.

No, I personally have not been dubbed or baptized by "one of them" and I am not saying I know everything that goes on behind closed doors. As far as an actual application of magic, what Michael Aquino does is probably the exact opposite of us, his attempt is to establish a permanency of the ego. This is the most dangerous because then he really will be the devil with 100,000 followers. This is also why we are against capital punishment. The killing of such a wicked person produces an unusually powerful devilish ghost. Preservation of corpses is similarly unclean. Whatever entitles a human devil to keep working beyond death is much worse than the general dangers and temptations in nature.

[Bubu]

But, would it be possible that by reading the Masonic Scottish Rite by Albert Pike, just because you were curious, lead to knowledge of same? And then rejected in a whirlwind of spiritual illumination? Among other things read and absorbed over a lifetime? Not all were rejected. The Gospel of Thomas for instance.

I have a copy of Morals and Dogma, which is attributed to Albert Pike. (It is to a large extent the work of Pike, but as the book itself makes clear, it's teachings are the ideas, concepts and work of many people collected and recorded over time.) It was given to me by a Mason, now deceased.

I have read it, even studied it, three times. I am not a Mason and I have never been approached to become one. But, to some extent I have acquired some knowledge of Masonry by reading the book. To be candid, there is little in the book that I disagree with. It is at its core a call to be the best at what you chose to be, to do good not harm, and to work well with others while making your way in life in a productive manner.

As pointed out by Jayke in post #19 on this thread, their is a duality at play and what one becomes (and Is) depends in significant measure on the degree to which one stands and acts in the dark (black square) or in the light (white square).

Let us also not forget that the dark side are masters of deception, such as bait and switch.
I was recruited into junior mason or demo lay while I was in college by a couple of high school buddies. Both of them are good people an have a considerable potential. One is now a successful lawyer to the countries riches man and the other a general manager of a fast food chain in the US. How do you recruit people with goodwill and potential if you want to use them for immoral agendas? The answer is you cant thus you present to them goodies on your one hand and the baddies on your left hand hidden behind your back. And no matter how intellectual a person is when he is trained to believe by faith, there will come a time that he will set aside reason for faith. It takes courage to question not intellect. I will say this book is of the same category. No different than the bible actually. Perhaps the magic lies in the initiation when you are in the process of choosing between black and white.
"but the room is supposed to light up at certain times of day and the monolith has brainwave altering frequencies"
and makes one choose the dark.

[TomKat]

Don't know if this speaks to your question completely, but it is some kind of initiation:
6 or 7 years ago there was a young black guy on a now-defunct radio show who called himself Loooooong. He said he was the top drug dealer in his upstate NY town. Being seen as a leader, he was befriended by some prominent businessmen who initiated him into Rosicrucianism. During his initiation he was asked to spit on a picture of Jesus. He was not religious and had no problem doing so. He was told he passed the test and was sent into the inner circle. Had he refused to spit on the picture, he would have been told that he passed the test also, but would be sent to the outer circle. (He got to snooping around in filing cabinets and found out his master Rosicrucians were reporting to the Jesuits.)

[Bubu]

When I was recruited I attended only 3 sessions. On the 3rd I went into the innermost room where there is an image of black nazarene lying on the floor right at the center of the room. It felt creepy to me all kinds of symbolism. That was the last I went to that building.

[Valerie Villars]

Well, this is all quite a bit of information. Sleeping upon this thread, I realized that my phrase "whirlwind of illumination" most fits what I went through. Then came rushing back to me all the "spiritual" things I had ever read and all the music I had ever listened to.

It was quite overwhelming to be bombarded with these images, words, notes, etc. as I have read an enormous amount since the day I hit this earth. Much of the time, I was sure I was going through some kind of masonic initiation which I knew nothing about. My only point of reference was Albert Pike's "Morals and Dogma" which I had read and thought about quite a bit. In fact, I got so confused as to what was "good" and what was "bad" I threw all my books and all my music on the front lawn, along with some other things. In a sense, I was leveling the playing field until I could sort it all out for myself.

It was quite terrifying. I guess that's why this subject is so interesting to me. Because it happened spontaneously (though I think I was set up for it to happen. That is a whole other story) it completely blew my head off.

It's an interesting subject and I guess ultimately, quite subjective. I got rid of "Morals and Dogma" and this little book I had called "The Order of the Eastern Star" because I felt I was being offered a deal from the devil through those works. The devil offered me half his kingdom and I told him to take a hike.

[Ratszinger]

Lucifer is the light bearer, (think Statue of LIberty) and was cast out of heaven. He took 1/3rd of heaven with him when he left and they remade themselves in a new image not of the one in heaven but in their own image as they created. The Luciferian Initiation is simply a remaking of yourself in a new image (the bridge as referred to in Q posts) and this was the entire idea of earth and Lucifer coming here to change the earth in to that which he wanted to see not that which God wanted that made it. Lucifer is the light of the world and so is Jesus the light of the world. Two sides of the same coin! One can't exist without the other.

[Valerie Villars]

So, in regards to David Spangler's quote above, it is my understanding that the dark agenda can only succeed by taking those of the light and swaying them toward the darkness. In other words, all is light until it turns away. Does that make sense?

So, in saying everyone has to take a Luciferian initiation, they are hoping most will turn away from the light? Isn't that a big risk?

I know I'm not as learned intellectually as most of the respondents on this thread, but I do have a working heart and a decent instinct and I'm really trying to understand this, having gone through it myself, without being knowingly recruited. No one walked up to me and said, "Hey, you wanna check out the Masons, Rosicrucians, Lucis Trust...(insert any of many organizations here) I sometimes suspect I was recruited or tested by someone or something's direction, but without my conscious go ahead.

It was quite the shock and reduced my life to rubble at one point, which I believe is the intention.

[Bubu]

Lucifer is the light bearer, (think Statue of LIberty) and was cast out of heaven. He took 1/3rd of heaven with him when he left and they remade themselves in a new image not of the one in heaven but in their own image as they created. The Luciferian Initiation is simply a remaking of yourself in a new image (the bridge as referred to in Q posts) and this was the entire idea of earth and Lucifer coming here to change the earth in to that which he wanted to see not that which God wanted that made it. Lucifer is the light of the world and so is Jesus the light of the world. Two sides of the same coin! One can't exist without the other.

The light of my world is in me. Not with anyone else. Caution seeking light from everywhere other than yourself. You are likely to fall into darkness

[Bluegreen]

As far as I can tell, Spangler has a tenuous at best association with the UN, and these are not his exact words. The post of “Director of Planetary Initiative” does not exist at the United Nations. A spiritual philosopher widely credited with coining the term 'New Age', he founded the "Planetary Initiative for the World We Choose", which in turn was funded by the Kettering Foundation, an NGO associated with the UN Department of Public Information. The UN's public information (brochures etc) is or was printed by Lucis Trust.

The quote from Spangler's 1978 book, Reflections on the Christ:

"Lucifer comes to give to us the final gift of wholeness. If we accept it then he is free and we are free. This is the Luciferic initiation. It is one that many people now, and in the days ahead, will be facing, for it is an initiation in the New Age."

[Franny]

This vid from Truthstream Media is called, "Does Society Realize It Is Being Initiated?"

They are describing a sort of stealth initiation of the population into dark occult lifestyle. It's a slow acculturation process that few notice. But more and more are noticing.

Who, in the general public, will notice that Olympics entertainment, tv adverts or Super Bowl halftime entertainment is filled with satanic and dark occult symbolism?

Over a year ago I noticed a tv series being advertised. It was a typical family where dad has a typical job (real estate? I don't recall) and mom is a cannibal. It was presented as a sit-com with a jocular sort of humor. No idea what happened to it.

um5yzha8EUw

A couple of interesting responses:


Our culture absolutely does worship celebrities, it's sickening. We call them "idols" and "stars", just like ancient pagan civilizations used to worship the stars. We lift our hands to worship them at concerts, we go crazy and grovel at their feet if we have a chance to meet one. We chase them down with cameras, we entertain ourselves with glimpses into their personal lives. We eat up everything they say, we change our culture and our beliefs if they tell us to. We even hold worship ceremonies to honor them by giving them little golden statues that look just like carved idols.
And behind the music industry, mainstream media, press and Hollywood you'll find the same people:

[CENSORED]

[Valerie Villars]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Spangler


Going beyond the "New Age"
Over the years since then, Spangler has continued to lecture and teach and has written numerous books on spirituality. He is considered one of the founding figures of the modern New Age phenomenon, but early on he identified its shadow and rejected what he termed "its further outgrowth into a myriad of 'old age' pursuits (including spiritual pursuits) dressed in 'new age' garb". This devolution into commercially-driven fads, identity politics, mystical glamour, atavistic spiritualisms, and uncritical guru reverence was a main theme of his Reimagination of the World, co-authored with fellow-traveler and cultural historian William Irwin Thompson.[3]

Spangler has often been miscast as a new-age channeler due in part to the "transmissions" received while living at the intentional community at Findhorn, Scotland in the 1970s, which became the core of his first book Revelation: The Birth of a New Age.[4] In hindsight it can be seen that Spangler's ideas were at that time transitional between the earlier theosophical esotericism represented by Alice Bailey and an emerging worldview that is more postmodern, less obscure, and less metaphysical than theosophy.[5] Spangler himself reports that it took him some years to develop a language in which to communicate clearly the insights and experiences he had been having since childhood

[Ratszinger]

Lucifer is the light bearer, (think Statue of LIberty) and was cast out of heaven. He took 1/3rd of heaven with him when he left and they remade themselves in a new image not of the one in heaven but in their own image as they created. The Luciferian Initiation is simply a remaking of yourself in a new image (the bridge as referred to in Q posts) and this was the entire idea of earth and Lucifer coming here to change the earth in to that which he wanted to see not that which God wanted that made it. Lucifer is the light of the world and so is Jesus the light of the world. Two sides of the same coin! One can't exist without the other.

The light of my world is in me. Not with anyone else. Caution seeking light from everywhere other than yourself. You are likely to fall into darkness

I didn't suggest I was into it. Simply saying the theory behind the initiation. Traditionally speaking Lucifer was never evil or dark. Lucifer was light and he was given a job by his father to punish evil. It was never said that Lucifer himself was evil incarnate. That is the church teaching to gather a scared following willing to fork over $ to save their souls.

[johnf]

I think that it is just more cannon fodder to keep people at each others throats.
There has been an endless string of deities associated with the morningstar, including Jesus.
There is probably a highertruth aspect to that and a divide and conquer aspect to it. Calling it Luciferian
is probably an attempt to sweep all the real phenomena under the rug.


John

[Valerie Villars]

In my heart of hearts I was really hoping someone would come on the thread and say "I had a Luciferian initiation and here's what I experienced....." etc. I've heard the term so much in the last five years and still no one has ever definitively said what experiencing one has been like for them.

There is no judgement involved in whatever one's experience is. But, I have yet to meet anyone who had one and was willing to talk about it.

Is there really such a thing if no person can stand up and say it happened to them?

Reading Morals and Dogma was very confusing for me because although I understood the concepts very well, and was genuinely in synch with many of the ideas about personal and social responsibility, reading about Lucifer the Light Bringer was all mixed up with the dogma I had been taught being bought up Catholic.

Then, too, there were all the symbols in the book, which was a very new concept to me.

[TomKat]

Latte, thank you for explaining modern TV programs. Yes, they think they are initiating us!
Hollywood has always seen itself as an agent for social engineering. I watch some old 50s TV shows on Amazon, and it's pretty blatant on some.



This vid from Truthstream Media is called, "Does Society Realize It Is Being Initiated?"

They are describing a sort of stealth initiation of the population into dark occult lifestyle. It's a slow acculturation process that few notice. But more and more are noticing.

Who, in the general public, will notice that Olympics entertainment, tv adverts or Super Bowl halftime entertainment is filled with satanic and dark occult symbolism?

Over a year ago I noticed a tv series being advertised. It was a typical family where dad has a typical job (real estate? I don't recall) and mom is a cannibal. It was presented as a sit-com with a jocular sort of humor. No idea what happened to it.

um5yzha8EUw

A couple of interesting responses:


Our culture absolutely does worship celebrities, it's sickening. We call them "idols" and "stars", just like ancient pagan civilizations used to worship the stars. We lift our hands to worship them at concerts, we go crazy and grovel at their feet if we have a chance to meet one. We chase them down with cameras, we entertain ourselves with glimpses into their personal lives. We eat up everything they say, we change our culture and our beliefs if they tell us to. We even hold worship ceremonies to honor them by giving them little golden statues that look just like carved idols.
And behind the music industry, mainstream media, press and Hollywood you'll find the same people:

[CENSORED]

[Justplain]

I was initiated to a 3rd degree master mason but never 'confirmed' that level. I found most of the 'lessons' quite reasonable, such as 'obey the laws of the land', etc. Where I found my disconnect was some of the subtle, and not so subtle, threats uttered in the initiation process, such as 'getting your throat cut open and tongue cut out' for disclosing masonic 'secrets'. I think the final kicker for me, that caused me to leave the order, was an ultra heavy emphasis on rituals, and thus ritual magic, and a lack of emphasis on true love. All the time spent labouring to learn and recite 'the work' and for what purpose, if not for love?

A wise, enlightened man was once quoted as saying 'if you are not doing it for love, then you are wasting your time.'

So judge luciferianism by what they do and preach. If it doesn't head towards love, unselfish love, then it's a dead end that costs you dearly.

[shaberon]

I think the final kicker for me, that caused me to leave the order, was an ultra heavy emphasis on rituals, and thus ritual magic, and a lack of emphasis on true love.

That's the baby and bathwater I'd throw out with what's generally called Western magic. They have usually asked the wrong questions and gone in the wrong direction. And yet it is ritualized with a weak inner substance.

There are some interesting observations in the thread such as Rosicrucians related to Jesuits. I do not think this is far from Alice Bailey who could be said to have made a "weak form of Christianity" which culminates with the installation of Jesus as Pope. Here is how Jesuits relate to Masonry. It was around 1736 or something close to that when a guy from Scotland named Chevalier Ramsay made a speech about how Masons and Templars were one. He had grown up going around places like Rosslyn Chapel, so he had these ideas, but no one knows where he had any facts. The speech was later used as inspiration to invent things like Templar degrees and add them into Masonry. None of that is Masonry, Rites are additional optional things. So then there are veins of Jesuit tampering and others who start to provide these additional Rites. There was still great interest in maintaining a Catholic power in England.

The French Revolution was really complicated, it was not like in America where some guys just drove an army out. And so there is a Jesuitical book about Masonic involvement and so forth and it is pretty dense and something like six hundred pages long. I can't quite recall the details, but you can find a few things it avoids and a few things it twists around, and so a little further down the road, Nesta Webster becomes the new authority, and there is this alarm about the Bavarian Illuminati. Now this is a red herring because the person that governments were terrified of was Thomas Paine. For a while there is even an Anti-Masonic political party. And if you look at the sloppier porridge stirred by Lady Queenborough, you land right in the British Union of Fascists, based from hardcore conservative strict Trinitarian Christianity. So the worst hype or Masonic scare is a deliberate provocation by Jesuits and British Fascists, especially when they mix Jews or the devil in with it. Masonry overall is almost completely Christian and around Frankfurt in 1815 a few Jews were first allowed to participate at the level of not having a vote. If we look at how the leading picture about Mr. Spangler is maybe a bit "tinged", you get a bunch of cross currents between Fascist Anti-Masonic hype and whatever Lucis is.

Masonry just isn't a cohesive "thing" because it really just comes down to the Lodges. The more advanced Lodges starting looking at what Napoleon brought from Egypt. There will be completely rotten ones such as P2, but, that doesn't mean they have much in common with Lodge 637 in Yourtown, Anystate.

At the end of Revelations Jesus does say "I am of the House of David and the bright Morning Star" which is Lucifer.

Being myself probably only two steps removed from Alice Bailey and so i. e., having a type of "old heritage" with it, I could reasonably say there isn't exactly some Masonic degree seeming Lucifer ritual trying to drag you into the basement. That may be on a "per lodge" basis, but, from a degree of pretty close familiarity, I would say there is nothing like that. I would say the thing itself is wrong, in a slightly different way I might be willing to call devilish because someone is up to something. Alice herself was completely inexperienced and thoroughly naive, so, I don't think it was her. It reeks of Council on Foreign Relations--Rockefeller--State Department. Probably the worst initiation one could endure is being recruited to that line of work.

Another thing that is telling is that she says the U. N. was crafted by a small group of initiates, and, if you translate that into how it actually happened, it might explain something. It was probably more like private businesses dictating terms to governments.

The Jesuit method is voluntary servitude due to ignorance. In old times this was in simple things like Armageddonist or Millenialist beliefs, but now there are a whole heap of things from Alice Bailey on out through the medical establishment, which are like sandbags, keeping you busy. The Fabian method is more to wear you down into a beast and is probably more visible if you just look at social issues.

The people I personally know who have operated rites dedicated to the devil as Satan or Lucifer or something like that had nothing to do with politics. One thing that was interesting about a renunciant or "SRA survivor" was that she had painted Tarot cards abstractly, there were no numbers or definite shapes, just colors, and I started reading her cards to her and turned out to be right several times and I had to stop because that was weird. I sensed nothing from any of these people that would be anything I want to gain by a magical bond.

[BMJ]

Over a year ago I noticed a tv series being advertised. It was a typical family where dad has a typical job (real estate? I don't recall) and mom is a cannibal. It was presented as a sit-com with a jocular sort of humor. No idea what happened to it.

Santa Clarita Diet
Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Clarita_Diet

[TomKat]

To get a new show on Netflix (and many other networks), it needs to get the viewer identifying with depravity in some form, be it crime, perversion or in this case both. I suspect that Netflix is getting a lot of their new show funding from the DoD or State Dept, hence the supersoldier and transhumanist-friendly themes.



Over a year ago I noticed a tv series being advertised. It was a typical family where dad has a typical job (real estate? I don't recall) and mom is a cannibal. It was presented as a sit-com with a jocular sort of humor. No idea what happened to it.

Santa Clarita Diet
Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Clarita_Diet

[Jayke]

To get a new show on Netflix (and many other networks), it needs to get the viewer identifying with depravity in some form, be it crime, perversion or in this case both. I suspect that Netflix is getting a lot of their new show funding from the DoD or State Dept, hence the supersoldier and transhumanist-friendly themes.



Over a year ago I noticed a tv series being advertised. It was a typical family where dad has a typical job (real estate? I don't recall) and mom is a cannibal. It was presented as a sit-com with a jocular sort of humor. No idea what happened to it.

Santa Clarita Diet
Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Clarita_Diet

Netflix was co-founded by Marc Bernays Randolph:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Randolph


Randolph was born in Chappaqua, New York, the eldest child of Stephen Bernays Randolph, an Austrian-born nuclear engineer, and Muriel Lipchik of Brooklyn, New York.[7][8] Randolph’s paternal great-granduncle was psychoanalysis pioneer Sigmund Freud and his paternal great-uncle was Edward Bernays, an Austrian-American pioneer in the field of public relations and propaganda.[9] Randolph spent his summers during high school and college working for the National Outdoor Leadership School, becoming one of its youngest instructors. He graduated from Hamilton College in New York with a geology degree.

Certainly suspicious enough family connections to steer well clear of most of the programming on there.

[Soda]

Lucifer is the light bearer, (think Statue of LIberty) and was cast out of heaven. He took 1/3rd of heaven with him when he left and they remade themselves in a new image not of the one in heaven but in their own image as they created. The Luciferian Initiation is simply a remaking of yourself in a new image (the bridge as referred to in Q posts) and this was the entire idea of earth and Lucifer coming here to change the earth in to that which he wanted to see not that which God wanted that made it. Lucifer is the light of the world and so is Jesus the light of the world. Two sides of the same coin! One can't exist without the other.

The Mormons believe this (not exactly but similar)
https://www.lds.org/study/ensign/1986/06/i-have-a-question/how-can-jesus-and-lucifer-be-spirit-brothers-when-their-characters-and-purposes-are-so-utterly-opposed?lang=eng

[shaberon]

But, I have yet to meet anyone who had one and was willing to talk about it.

Is there really such a thing if no person can stand up and say it happened to them?


They do under torture such as around the Loudon Trials (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudun_possessions) based around some nuns that Father Urban Grandier was supposed to have bewitched according to this document written in his blood:

https://www.college.columbia.edu/core/sites/core/files/styles/large/public/images/UrbainPact2.jpg?itok=t8vhWUtN


Colin de Plancy published that in 1826 in a fairly large book about what he thought Satanism was. And so this came from a Catholic scandal of the 1600s.

At the same time, there were pockets of country folk who did not exactly believe in Lucifer but still relied on old pagan ways, based largely around herbal medicine, which may have discussed elementals or other non-Christian sounding things. And so when you take torture, and use what looks like a devil the church invented, and use it to prosecute people like that, you make a mess. These were intolerant times, and it was really Protestant countries such as Germany and Sweden that burned more witches than the Catholics by far.

What I personally know better than the "Luciferians", perhaps, is witches, but not really the kind who show up to covens out of curiosity. I mean the natural born kind. Women who had some kind of psychic capacity and had turned to some kind of wicca to try to figure it out. None were devil worshippers, very peaceful really, and I would say on a personal level much more of an actual motor for peace than what I know of Lucis. I can't say much or everyone will know who I'm talking about, since the main ones I have in mind are in public consciousness, one related to New York City and another who is a song done by household-name musicians, even if I don't particularly like it. So I can pretty much promise you there are people like this. Diabolical? Perhaps, in some opinions, but I don't see it.

The more I think about Lucis, there were some matriarchs of the thing, one being only a few years younger than Alice Bailey, and, again, I can't specifically say, but the husband did hold an office of power at the U. N. from what was probably its early days. Despite this brush with power, the matriarchy would have to be described as a bunch of sweet grandmas. I milled through its library and what surprised me was that it was sanitized not just of Colin de Plancy or anything close to Satanism, but very little wiccan or pagan anything. The whole affair seemed like a Foster Bailey "Restoration of the Mysteries". He was about as interested in re-installing Eleusis into modern Masonry as Alice was about forming the U. N. under the Occult Hierarchy. Both of them are shady and it is hard to see much of the living background of this fairly modern organization. With Alice you get her own Autobiography. Well. Was she shut in or paranoid or something?

A long-standing tactic of the extreme Right has been to say the anti-Christ is Lord Maitreya and indicate Benjamin Creme's version in Nairobi. Same "eye in the triangle" ploy, which is never identified even though we are assured it definitely exists by others whom, like us, have not personally met said eye.

All of them are idiots because whoever intentionally tampers with Maitreya's name gains thousands of lifetimes in Frozen Hells saying "huh, huh" until too much of the body breaks open. Ask my wiccan friend's children about that. She had twin tulkus a thousand times more powerful than me.

Having said that, the point is that almost all of the Bailey disciples I can think of, were basically good-natured people who at most might be willing to admit that Lucifer is not really the devil and although most of the material is pure New Testament Gospel thumping, they would say their God is not the same as the Fundamentalist one or a strict church version. Their problem is they have been given another counterfeit, and so their good natures are relatively weak and watery or about like any generally nice person who isn't powerful or isn't noticed doing anything much. Sort of the nice, clean version of being opiated on garbage.

Alice's problem is that she was given the circus of C. W. Ledbeater to work with. This guy initially blasphemed Maitreya in such a way as that, with little difficulty, we would presume he fabricated into a sort of mystical amusement park for pedophile purposes. If I had to say where "New Age versions" come from, it's specifically this. And basically due to him, now there are hundreds millions following these versions and Bailey and so forth, which of course feeds more ammunition to the Fundamentalist camp. The whole thing is groundless because none of it is right.

There is definitely a kind of initiation for evil, but, I am not sure it connects with Lucifer or Satan or that kind of thing in any way. By discipline alone and especially with too much intellect, one can achieve this. Or if you do a blood ritual you can say "Oh Satan" or not. There definitely are ancient houses of black magic in China, Indonesia, etc., and actually when one of these shamans was given some modern, western "satanic gear", he just thought it was cool. By initiation in this sense, it does not necessarily mean a ritual baptism, but an inner or physiological change giving the adept various powers that can be used to hypnotize or otherwise harm people. This is closer to what the Jesuits do have. Even in the 1800s, one of them was able to learn "shampooing", which if you look up this word, it basically means "massage". In occult sciences however it changes the aura of the hands, and so the Jesuit could carry live coals from a furnace by hand.

Another one of the main reasons I find Jesuit fingerprints on the Bailey material is because they are never mentioned at all. She does however rage many times at Zionists, which may seem a bit contradictory to the United Nations favoritism.

Probably one of the clearest things told me by a Satanist was to reject Christ as the Fixed Cross and to declare themselves as Mutable Cross. In the Bailey Material, you are at least told to go to the Fixed Cross. As far as I can tell, this would be a doctrinal dispute between what I personally know as Satanism and what the Fundamentalists call Luciferianism (Bailey). In case you're wondering, I physically subdued this witch. But that was a very aware and very dedicated statement which may help in understanding what a real devilish black magician does.

[Valerie Villars]

Thanks Shaberon. That's an awful lot of information and though I am familiar with most of the things you mention, I am not well versed. I guess everyone has their own way of neutralizing evil intent. The more I read about the manipulation of power and magic, the more I think it's best, for me, to continue on and just be AWARE these things are very real.

To all of you who have contributed thus far, I thank you. It's a disturbing subject but one that needs to be understood.

[shaberon]

I am not well versed.

That is exactly the thing in the case of Annie Besant and Alice Bailey. Both were very enthusiastic and, I believe, well-intentioned, but neither was trained and so both essentially became mouthpieces for men "who knew it all". Visibly, the first was snowballed by Ledbeater, and, with the second, it is very hard to say, other than "The Tibetan" is definitely not the historical Djwal Kul. Same with the Golden Dawn and most of the Masons and so forth. They grab some scraps and eventually pastiche some very complex ritual degrees. In retrospect, many of us conclude this is also what happened to the churches or religions, except they knew what they were doing. The basic level that a few of us have agreed to on here is that the Western system comes from a degraded Zoroastrian--Manicheanism, wherein the malefic aspect of Saturn has joined with a Caananite tribal vocano deity or Yahweh. A type of deity that reasonably has credit for giving man his Animal Soul, only, and by emphasizing Creation and the world of form, mentally locks or hypnotizes a person into that mode of belief, fear and guilt and what have you. The Divine Soul instead is the product of Venus, not of a tribal deity or a mortal creator, shaper of dust, or breather of life into an animal. This is a major philosophical impasse, none of us accept Creator-worship. The closer it gets to this terrible rock, then it is seen as a third-rate potency, a lesser god, a not so perfect source.

Here again, the actual, historical Saturn was the founder of Latin culture which existed peacefully with their neighbors the Etruscans for 2-300 years, considered a Golden Age. Mythologically, Saturn is the Father of the gods. Jesus never spoke about god but did about Abba (Father) except once during crucifixion he called on Eli (the Sun). We're not supposed to ask why we should trust anyone who decides to write Yahweh over that. However this spent a long time being enforced by lethal threat, boldly proclaimed so, which sounds intentional, narrow-minded, and not particularly friendly.

The Jesuits per se did not start that, but talked their way into all the wealth and power of the institution that did.

[TomKat]

The Divine Soul instead is the product of Venus, not of a tribal deity or a mortal creator, shaper of dust, or breather of life into an animal.

shaberon, is this something you believe, or are you just summarizing a belief system you read about?

[silvanelf]

[...]

Lucis Trust was founded by Alice Bailey from the Theosophical society:

https://steemit.com/women/@myrevteam/eugenics-education-chapter-4-alice-bailey-and-annie-besant

Bailey founded the Lucis Trust in 1922. It erected a few programs for esoteric education, world goodwill support, magazines and a publishing company. The World Goodwill program was in support of the United Nations. The publishing company founded was “Lucifer Publishing Company” later changed to Lucis Publishing Co. Lusis is a from the same root word as Lucifer meaning light. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Bailey

[...]

You can find the entire plan here: https://www.lucistrust.org/arcane_school/service_the_plan_study_course

And we will now gather a summary:

TAKE GOD AND PRAYER OUT OF THE EDUCATION SYSTEM [...]
REDUCE PARENTAL AUTHORITY OVER THE CHILDREN [...]
DESTROY THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN FAMILY STRUCTURE OR THE TRADITIONAL CHRISTIAN FAMILY STRUCTURE [...]
IF SEX IS FREE, THEN MAKE ABORTION LEGAL AND MAKE IT EASY [...]
MAKE DIVORCE EASY AND LEGAL, FREE PEOPLE FROM THE CONCEPT OF MARRIAGE FOR LIFE. MAKE HOMOSEXUALITY AN ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLE [...]
DEBASE ART, MAKE IT RUN MAD [...]
USE MEDIA TO PROMOTE AND CHANGE MINDSET [...]
CREATE AN INTERFAITH MOVEMENT [...]
GET GOVERNMENTS TO MAKE ALL THESE LAW AND GET THE CHURCH TO ENDORSE THESE CHANGES [...]



That so-called 'summary' is just a fairy tale, because the whole text at Lucis Trust -- Arcane School (https://www.lucistrust.org/arcane_school/service_the_plan_study_course) is entirely different from that 'summary' mentioned above. For example, the text doesn't say anything about abortion or homosexuality. Furthermore the text emphasizes the idea to merge science and spirituality, while the 'summary' above claims that the text is a plan about "take God and prayer out of the education system." It goes on and on.

The author myrevteam tries to take the readers for a ride, that's all.

[Jayke]

[...]

Lucis Trust was founded by Alice Bailey from the Theosophical society:

https://steemit.com/women/@myrevteam/eugenics-education-chapter-4-alice-bailey-and-annie-besant

Bailey founded the Lucis Trust in 1922. It erected a few programs for esoteric education, world goodwill support, magazines and a publishing company. The World Goodwill program was in support of the United Nations. The publishing company founded was “Lucifer Publishing Company” later changed to Lucis Publishing Co. Lusis is a from the same root word as Lucifer meaning light. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Bailey

[...]

You can find the entire plan here: https://www.lucistrust.org/arcane_school/service_the_plan_study_course

And we will now gather a summary:

TAKE GOD AND PRAYER OUT OF THE EDUCATION SYSTEM [...]
REDUCE PARENTAL AUTHORITY OVER THE CHILDREN [...]
DESTROY THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN FAMILY STRUCTURE OR THE TRADITIONAL CHRISTIAN FAMILY STRUCTURE [...]
IF SEX IS FREE, THEN MAKE ABORTION LEGAL AND MAKE IT EASY [...]
MAKE DIVORCE EASY AND LEGAL, FREE PEOPLE FROM THE CONCEPT OF MARRIAGE FOR LIFE. MAKE HOMOSEXUALITY AN ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLE [...]
DEBASE ART, MAKE IT RUN MAD [...]
USE MEDIA TO PROMOTE AND CHANGE MINDSET [...]
CREATE AN INTERFAITH MOVEMENT [...]
GET GOVERNMENTS TO MAKE ALL THESE LAW AND GET THE CHURCH TO ENDORSE THESE CHANGES [...]



That so-called 'summary' is just a fairy tale, because the whole text at Lucis Trust -- Arcane School (https://www.lucistrust.org/arcane_school/service_the_plan_study_course) is entirely different from that 'summary' mentioned above. For example, the text doesn't say anything about abortion or homosexuality. Furthermore the text emphasizes the idea to merge science and spirituality, while the 'summary' above claims that the text is a plan about "take God and prayer out of the education system." It goes on and on.

The author myrevteam tries to take the readers for a ride, that's all.

Did you read myrevteams full article (https://steemit.com/women/@myrevteam/eugenics-education-chapter-4-alice-bailey-and-annie-besant), or just my snipped-for-brevity quotes? There is context missing from the myrev article that didn’t get moved in the cut if you’re just going off the parts I highlighted.

Not that he’s the only one discussing it. I think it was Michael Tsarion who talks about it in more detail, but his podcasts have been behind a paywall after YouTube deleted his free for view channel.

https://unslaved.com/episode-119-the-frankfurt-gang-michael-hoskinson/

Although it might have been American Intelligence Media who also discuss some of the surrounding context...

iqY03UIjwJ0
Personally, I follow the Maxim “By their fruits thy shall be known”, and I really don’t feel as though the people who are involved in the Lucis Trust have our best interests at heart. It’s not as if they’re going to advertise their satanic agenda in broad daylight on their curriculum.

https://www.lucistrust.org/arcane_school/service_the_plan_study_course
There is a couple sections that give me pause for thought though:
Section 2.I : The New World Religion, and the Universality of Life
Section 7.VI : Creating Form and Structure for the New World Order

In the context of where the Lucis Trust came from, and its connections to the Fabian society and such, I’m inclined to agree with myrevteams summaries. They do also reference Robert Muller a lot on the Lucis Trust website, the guy behind the world core curriculum (http://robertmuller.org/rm/R1/World_Core_Curriculum.html) i.e. ‘common core’, ‘common purpose’. His teachings sound delightful...


.a curriculum and an educational system must encompass and apply a vast range of processes. These processes extend from the central ideas of transfor- mational education and include all realms of human experience – thus balancing the education of the “heart” and the education of the mind. As this balance is achieved, both individually and collectively, greater harmony in humanity’s basic relationships can be brought about – leading to true world peace and opportuni- ties for planetary transformation.
Robert Muller School, Introduction, The Robert Muller School World Core Curriculum Journal, Vol. I

The ‘learning process’ must be permeated with joy, fun and achievement which the child can feel and know. For the adult it must be one of persistent firmness coupled closely with loving gentleness because this process is the pattern which the child will use as a basis for all future life experience. As he uses this basis in establishing ordered activity, love, patience and understanding, the child gains a sensitivity to right global relationships and is prepared to adjust possibili- ties as he moves forward, contributing his past to the miracle of life.
Robert Muller School, Resource Catalo

What’s the end goal of his ‘common core’ and ‘common purpose’ agendas?

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JsBEqy2wois/WioAdLNZ5aI/AAAAAAAAFYg/tgnuhN50wGc5v4_PueIA0b6t5V4CRHMvACLcBGAs/s1600/Screen%2BShot%2B2017-12-07%2Bat%2B8.59.17%2BPM.png

[Pam]

In my heart of hearts I was really hoping someone would come on the thread and say "I had a Luciferian initiation and here's what I experienced....." etc. I've heard the term so much in the last five years and still no one has ever definitively said what experiencing one has been like for them.

There is no judgement involved in whatever one's experience is. But, I have yet to meet anyone who had one and was willing to talk about it.

Is there really such a thing if no person can stand up and say it happened to them?

Reading Morals and Dogma was very confusing for me because although I understood the concepts very well, and was genuinely in synch with many of the ideas about personal and social responsibility, reading about Lucifer the Light Bringer was all mixed up with the dogma I had been taught being bought up Catholic.

Then, too, there were all the symbols in the book, which was a very new concept to me.

I found this general description of the beliefs of those that adhere to the Luciferian doctrine from wikipedia;


Though associated with Satanism, a philosophy based on the Christian interpretation of the fallen angel, Luciferianism differs in that it does not revere merely the devil figure or Satan but the broader figure of Lucifer, an entity representing various interpretations of "the morning star" as understood by ancient cultures such as the Greeks and Egyptians.[26] In this context, Lucifer is a symbol of enlightenment,[27] independence, and human progression and is often used interchangeably with similar figures from ancient beliefs, such as the Greek titan Prometheus or the Jewish Talmudic figure Lilith.

Luciferians generally support the protection of the natural world. Both the arts and sciences are crucial to human development and thus both are cherished. Luciferians think that humans should be focused on this life and how to make the most of it every single day. The ability to recognize both good and evil, to accept that all actions have both positive and negative consequences, and to actively influence one's environment is a key factor.

The Luciferian philosophy in recent years has been defined in a collective foundation, known as the "11 Luciferian Points of Power",[28] authored by Michael W. Ford. The basis of Luciferian philosophy cultivates and encourages individuality, self-determined choices based on strategic application and continually seeking to enhance the Will via overcoming challenges. Luciferianism is philosophically practiced with the continual cycle and process known as Liberation, Illumination and Apotheosis.

For Luciferians, enlightenment is the ultimate goal. The basic Luciferian principles highlight truth and freedom of will, worshipping the inner self and one's ultimate potential. Traditional dogma is shunned as a basis for morality on the grounds that humans should not need deities or fear of eternal punishment to distinguish right from wrong and to do good. All ideas should be tested before being accepted, and even then one should remain skeptical because knowledge and understanding are fluid. Regardless of whether Lucifer is conceived of as a deity or as a mere archetype, he is a representation of ultimate knowledge and exploration as well as humanity's savior and a champion for continuing personal growth.


I can't say that I don't agree with much of what is said here. The whole thing is really confusing to me. What I have observed is that we are living in a culture that has turned everything around. What was considered good is now considered bad. Institutions that represented advancement of humans are now being used destructively. How much has organized religion altered spiritual writings for their own ends? I really am confused about the whole thing. What I do know is that the one they call God or Yehweh in the old testament of the Bible seems very evil to me, he always has, even as a small child. I never could figure out how Jesus and Yehweh fit together cohesively.

The best that I have come up with is to try to maintain my physical, mental and spiritual sides to the best of my ability and to rely on my own inner voice and intuition. It's not always easy, but it seems to be the best way.

[Valerie Villars]

Yes, peterpam, I feel the same way you do. Confused. It has taken me about five years to get round back to the point you made above, which is the best I can do is be balanced physically, mentally and spiritually.

The reason I asked about what exactly a Luciferian initiation was that I got versions of all different spiritual knowledge during my awakening. I seemed to have understanding of all different spiritual teachings, both good and bad and that was very confusing to me. It seems that having read a great deal about all types of spiritual things, I was afforded knowledge of all of them without answers.

The one beautiful part of my experience did have to do with Gnostic and Christ teachings. Those understandings were undeniably ecstatic and beautiful, while some other parts were frightening.

All in all very confusing.

Thanks to all who have far contributed to this thread. All the responses have been heartfelt, thoughtful and filled with wisdom.

[silvanelf]

Did you read myrevteams full article (https://steemit.com/women/@myrevteam/eugenics-education-chapter-4-alice-bailey-and-annie-besant), or just my snipped-for-brevity quotes? There is context missing from the myrev article that didn’t get moved in the cut if you’re just going off the parts I highlighted.


I've read the whole article. You can twist that article however you want, but the Lucis Trust articles don't say anything at all about homosexuality, abortion or 'destroying the family structure'. How do I know? I used a full-text search for a number of relevant words over all these articles.

Quote taken from myrevteam's article -- here about Annie Besant:

By 1877 she would affiliate with numerous secular organizations and befriend Charles Bradlaugh. The two would be arrested for publishing a book on birth control by the American Charles Knowlton.


https://steemit.com/women/@myrevteam/eugenics-education-chapter-4-alice-bailey-and-annie-besant

Now what? According to myrevteam, promoting a book on contraception indicates a Luciferian agenda? I guess myrevteam belongs to these fundamentalist Christians.


Personally, I follow the Maxim “By their fruits thy shall be known”, and I really don’t feel as though the people who are involved in the Lucis Trust have our best interests at heart. It’s not as if they’re going to advertise their satanic agenda in broad daylight on their curriculum.


"It’s not as if they’re going to advertise their satanic agenda in broad daylight on their curriculum." -- But if they don't say so, how do you know about their 'satanic agenda'? Can you read their minds? Or do you rely on other people's claims? Your maxim looks more like "By other people's propaganda thy shall be known."



In the context of where the Lucis Trust came from, and its connections to the Fabian society and such, I’m inclined to agree with myrevteams summaries. They do also reference Robert Muller a lot on the Lucis Trust website, the guy behind the world core curriculum (http://robertmuller.org/rm/R1/World_Core_Curriculum.html) i.e. ‘common core’, ‘common purpose’. His teachings sound delightful...


Nice try.

The World Core Curriculum created by Robert Muller has nothing to do with the Common Core State Standards Initiative created by the US government under Obama in 2010.


Robert Muller created a "World Core Curriculum"[6] that earned him the UNESCO Prize for Peace Education in 1989.[7] The "World Core Curriculum" helped inspire the growing Global Education movement. More than 30 Robert Muller schools were founded throughout the world, including LIFE School in Panajachel, Guatemala, from which students have gone on to pursue degrees in International Affairs.

He was the recipient of multiple awards and honors, including the Albert Schweitzer International Prize for the Humanities[8][9] and the Eleanor Roosevelt Man of Vision Award.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Muller


The Common Core State Standards Initiative is an educational initiative from 2010 that details what K–12 students throughout the United States should know in English language arts and mathematics at the conclusion of each school grade. The initiative is sponsored by the National Governors Association (NGA) and the Council of Chief State School Officers (CCSSO) and seeks to establish consistent educational standards across the states as well as ensure that students graduating from high school are prepared to enter credit-bearing courses at two- or four-year college programs or to enter the workforce.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Core_State_Standards_Initiative

[Jayke]

Feel free to send your kids their if you like SilvanElf. I tend to stay away from anyone who promotes globalism and new world order values myself. Like Putin recently said, all these globalist projects are ‘Dead on Arrival’ anyway, so their influence is only going to diminish over the next couple of decades.


http://sharmanbursonramsey.blogspot.com/2017/12/the-genealogy-of-common-core-bill-gates_5.html

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EBNxoOq4jYk/WicstjGF6sI/AAAAAAAAFT0/Ox5TV5tgKyQaEtd2sWA9xyu-zG3mKAQjQCPcBGAYYCw/s1600/Screen%2BShot%2B2017-12-05%2Bat%2B5.21.20%2BPM.png

[RogeRio]

Dear Valerie,

As far as I know, this kind of initiation its a secret, and no one initiated can talk about out of the inner group.

i think, " jonhf " (above) make a good aproach, because where there are religions and cults with their Dogmas and Doctrines, there are brainwasher, unconditional blind faith, total submission and loyalty to superiors by members.

By that way they previously requires pledge to their worship. For example, think about a catholic priest that is pedophile or homosexual at nigth, but at daylight he swears that he vowed chastity.

The use of Lucifer name, may be because it symbolizes the evil on our collective unconscious, and so, take care about what you want to get

Of course, there are several good (universal) concepts in Moral and Dogmas, but how much are really followed and practiced whithout distortions ?

[silvanelf]

I am curious as to just what exactly a Luciferian initiation is.


In reference to this pic in your Original Post it may make sense to ask what exactly a Moloch initiation is, because the reference to Lucifer is somewhat misleading.

Bohemian Grove: The Secret Society Summer Camp

https://static.messynessychic.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/cremation_of_care.jpg

image source: https://www.messynessychic.com/2016/05/25/bohemian-grove-the-secret-society-summer-camp/

It is beyond any doubt that the secret ceremony there is a kind of pagan ritual. Furthermore the owl statue and the importance of a fire ritual indicate that the statue symbolizes the ancient god Moloch (or Molech).


Performed after dark in front of the members, a small boat crosses the lake towards a group of dark, hooded figures waiting at the owl statue with a High Priest who receives a human effigy from the ferryman, places it at the foot of the shrine, and sets it on fire.

https://www.messynessychic.com/2016/05/25/bohemian-grove-the-secret-society-summer-camp/

It seems that this ancient pagan religion is very much alive even in these times.


The oldest mention of a horned deity starts with Nimrod, El, and Moloch. These somewhat-interchangeable deities were thought to be depicted as either a single or double horned-god who was worshipped in the Bronze Ages of Mesopotamian culture. He was one of multiple gods in these ancient Pagan cultures that we see the Canaanites, Sumerians, Phoenicians, Assyrians, and Babylonians devoting much energy and bloodshed.

They were worshipping this deity to the point of sacrificing their own children (although some argue there is no definitive evidence of this, while others claim a counter-conspiracy cover-up of the disturbing practice). These ancient cultures believed that sacrificing their infants would appease the deity and they would in return have financial blessings, more fertility, good fortunes, or any other type of prayer worthy gift. This form of idolatry is what influenced much of the teachings of the Bible (about having false idols and such).

https://illuminatiwatcher.com/decoding-illuminati-symbolism-moloch-horns-satan/

[Valerie Villars]

Dear Valerie,

As far as I know, this kind of initiation its a secret, and no one initiated can talk about out of the inner group.

i think, " jonhf " (above) make a good aproach, because where there are religions and cults with their Dogmas and Doctrines, there are brainwasher, unconditional blind faith, total submission and loyalty to superiors by members.

By that way they previously requires pledge to their worship. For example, think about a catholic priest that is pedophile or homosexual at nigth, but at daylight he swears that he vowed chastity.

The use of Lucifer name, may be because it symbolizes the evil on our collective unconscious, and so, take care about what you want to get

Of course, there are several good (universal) concepts in Moral and Dogmas, but how much are really followed and practiced whithout distortions ?

rogparan, it's nice to meet you. Thanks for posting.

I don't like secrets. There were some really strange things that happened to me and rather than live in fear, I talk about them. Someone or some thing was trying to scare me. I call it black magic and I guess it was. They really did come after me hard.

Glad I skated out of that one! It was close! But, as they say, no cigar.

Nice to see you on the forum.

[Cara]

An author who explores some of these topics is Jasun Horsley (https://auticulture.com/). His website, books and podcasts are careful, thoughtful explorations of difficult and sometimes hidden topics. His candour about his own experiences is extraordinary.

A place to start might be with this article:
What You Should Know about Organized (“Satanic”) Ritual Abuse
https://auticulture.com/blog/2018/10/22/what-you-should-know-about-organized-satanic-ritual-abuse/

But there is much more on his website. I recommend his podcasts for their very real, personal engagement.

[RogeRio]

I don't like secrets. There were some really strange things that happened to me and rather than live in fear, I talk about them. Someone or some thing was trying to scare me. I call it black magic and I guess it was. They really did come after me hard.



Pleasure to meet you too, Valerie

Going on, massive waves of negativity are surrounding everyone & everywhere, and so, each one need to be internally defensive, because they are too very persuasive, for not to say seductive.

If you dont like secrets, I risky to tell you one that may be the most important for secret societies - Betrayal . Regards the common sex example of the priests, wich betrayal their vows of chastity, while the church ignore the betrayal.

Anyway, where there are much secrets, there are betrayal of principles, and I say you be careful for don't flirt too much with potencial sources of this negative corruption. If you look at that way, its not difficult to understand why some power cults are secretive.

[petra]

Lucifer is the light bearer, (think Statue of LIberty) and was cast out of heaven. He took 1/3rd of heaven with him when he left and they remade themselves in a new image not of the one in heaven but in their own image as they created. The Luciferian Initiation is simply a remaking of yourself in a new image (the bridge as referred to in Q posts) and this was the entire idea of earth and Lucifer coming here to change the earth in to that which he wanted to see not that which God wanted that made it. Lucifer is the light of the world and so is Jesus the light of the world. Two sides of the same coin! One can't exist without the other.

Thanks for this nice short summary! I especially like how this implies Jesus and Lucifer are like brothers, because that's my line of thinking also.
I imagine the coin you speak of says "In God We Trust" on it :)

[shaberon]

The Divine Soul instead is the product of Venus, not of a tribal deity or a mortal creator, shaper of dust, or breather of life into an animal.

shaberon, is this something you believe, or are you just summarizing a belief system you read about?

I don't believe anything.

All the language I use is intended to go back to "original meaning", and use the terms as they often mean a type of experience or psychological state.

So "Venus is the goddess of love" is useless Hallmark greeting card rubbish.

Venus, defined as Formless, is talking about something real. I, personally, have experienced "Formless Soul" and "Animal Soul", and as such, it is plain to see how most Orthodox religion is based on the latter and obscures the former.

Similarly, George Bush sitting in front of Moloch while actors parade in costumes is not "taking an initiation". They might call it that or think that, and be wrong, as they pretty much always are.

I was unable to get anything by pursuing Lucis Trust as hard as I could for several years, but, in the original sense, there definitely is a Venusian initiation which I am nowhere near qualified for. I may spend the rest of my life "preparing". To my knowledge, there is no such thing west of Dehra Dun. I cannot say much because it is really self-secret, more subtle than the subtle, inaccessible to a person who has not trained properly for a long time. But all we are talking about is how the mind and body works, which is simply expressed as Venus, Mars, and so forth. Because this is an actual process which I know from experience to be real, there is no belief, it is an attempt to find language to describe it, which is next to impossible in English.

I am empty-handed trying to find the devil either from Satanists or Lucis, but whatever I am trying to discuss in mystical terms is more real than the solid state of matter, put it that way.

[amor]

The Alice Baily Agenda is to destroy this country and all others foolish enough to let it happen. The Rockefellers own the United Nations building and land upon which it stands. They are seemingly behind all the rotten agendas, together, which are leading to the destruction of the human race. Perhaps they have spent too much time in front of the "Thing" which exerts frequency mind control. My guess is it came from those Aliens on the Moon. If we continue to allow these reprobates to manipulate laws and practices, we will all be in Sodom and Gomorrah shortly, which was so vile that the Anunnaki had to NUKE IT!

[TomKat]

Lucifer is the light bearer, (think Statue of LIberty) and was cast out of heaven. He took 1/3rd of heaven with him when he left and they remade themselves in a new image not of the one in heaven but in their own image as they created. The Luciferian Initiation is simply a remaking of yourself in a new image (the bridge as referred to in Q posts) and this was the entire idea of earth and Lucifer coming here to change the earth in to that which he wanted to see not that which God wanted that made it. Lucifer is the light of the world and so is Jesus the light of the world. Two sides of the same coin! One can't exist without the other.

Thanks for this nice short summary! I especially like how this implies Jesus and Lucifer are like brothers, because that's my line of thinking also.
I imagine the coin you speak of says "In God We Trust" on it :)

Lucifer was only mentioned once in the Bible: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning.” Isaiah xiv. 12. Any connection between Lucifer and Satan is purely invention, for religious control.

Could Lucifer be a star system that declared independence from a confederation?

[petra]

Could Lucifer be a star system that declared independence from a confederation?

I think that's possible, or maybe an actual star. In my mind, Lucifer is the "smartest angel" but he still doesn't know everything.

I've thought something similar before, but in a more childish way, as if Lucifer was a little child.

Lucifer: Dad.... can I have my own universe?
God: No, you absolutely cannot! Quit asking.
Lucifer: Nag nag nag
God: Fine, if you think you can do it... (should be amusing)

[shaberon]

The Alice Baily Agenda is to destroy this country and all others foolish enough to let it happen. The Rockefellers own the United Nations building and land upon which it stands. They are seemingly behind all the rotten agendas, together, which are leading to the destruction of the human race.

That is closer to what I found in it. If you follow her material to its conclusion, the goal is the return of Jesus as Pope.

I believe this is in tandem with "Intelligence agencies" or a ploy to control and vampirize the U. S. on behalf of Britain.

She is in the same time historically as what appears to be the European Synarchist merger with British Fabians. According to Huxley, the main "Plan" was set in 1931, which was for Germany to re-arm and destroy the Soviet Union. But while they were deployed, Britain and France were going to destroy Germany, and install it into their plot of global domination with New York. This is different because throughout most of history, there was a bitter feud between the Catholics and Venetians, which resolved itself in London somehow. From that point, these plotters were no longer German or French people, there was no kind of division between people in that league.

While I was with Lucis, I had a Jewish professor who told us to choose our own topic for a paper, and I did "inter-war" Germany since it made no sense how it went from emergency conditions to a brand-new war machine. Ironically, I guess the report was on the real forces that Alice calls her hierarchy. That is how blind it makes you. In the final analysis, I can find about ten major and forty significant points about her that do not work. Here is one of the most suspicious. Alice makes frequent diatribes against greedy cartels and especially Zionists. There is no shortage of very aware social concern. However, she never mentions the Jesuits a single time in thousands of pages, at least nineteen books. That is their fingerprint. And it is completely ignorant with respect to the Mahatmas who made a clear warning about them, as did Marquis de LaFayette. They did have some influence to some Egyptian rite Carbonari lodges that were against English dominance, including Garibaldi and in Greece. Resistance is very old and it is still around.

[Agape]

If there’s an answer to the original question I can only think and offer a metaphor.

I think it’s one of the scariest things that can happen to anyone in their lifetime( therefor do not give your consent to random offers for solutions).

The Luciferian initiation( each of us could have experienced couple of them in our life anyway) happens out of order.

Lucifer in this case could be compared to random shooting star or more likely a random asteroid unplannedly hitting the Planet.

It’s the rogue force roaming this Universe.


Somewhere deep inside us I feel we have a sense of higher order, an order and balance and harmony, the same way we have a sense of beauty.
We may know what the plan is or not but we can sense whether we resonate with it or not, whether we fit in or not, move forwards or stagnate.

Being in harmony with the Universe offers a comfort zone to the soul and even if there’s hard work and struggle on many levels we live from the Universe itself and by its resonant vibration.


What happens or happened to the energy that is so vastly unpredictable at the first place/time ?
Do we know it? Perhaps it transpired from another Universe...

Perhaps it’s been here so long that it’s traversing vast distances of space and breaking to different space time parties.

On many subtle levels of live energy it seems to induce random behaviours and actions out of order. Perhaps one possible phenomenon behind many revolutions and social unrest.

On personal level the same energy may well manifest as perfect random offer and new way to go, away from all you’ve been taught. It offers a discovery perhaps and new ways you’ve never really thought of.

It looks many ways smarter than you are( even if that’s not true). Most importantly, your skills will be required later to get off its pathway.
If you’re still here you’ve made it😀❤️

What happens to the initiated is painful : you’re being thrown out of the Universal order and state of harmony to a random choice.
It violates all your physical and mental energy and everything you were and are, finding yourself at unknown place, somebodies else’s timeline, more likely someone’s cloths as well.


To understand who or what caused it is really difficult, for starters but ...

using your intuition and sense of Universal order again

you can return and find yourself a chair:)


It’s probably the best and the worst ride you’ve ever got in this life or at least for a time being. The risks are high that some fall in love with the speed and thrill,
wait, take some more initiations ..
till the energy like wild horse gets rid of the rider in painful and untimely manner laughing to itself all around.

It’s a very real energy and we are not too far from describing it in terms of cosmology and physics as a wandering remnant of an older Universe but
its crude impact is disturbing to the harmonious frequencies of creation and dissolution.

Acknowledge it, remember about it, don’t fear it. It may come back again but always in new form and more to those asking for it.


Therefor...do not take random options, offers and initiations. If one of them is the right wrong Luciferian one you would not be you, here, for long.


May all find their place remembering who they are


🙏🌟🙏

[Valerie Villars]

Agape, your explanation resonated with me on a deep, intuitive level. It's a ride I would NEVER recommend anyone seek. However, sometimes it seeks you, particularly when you, without understanding that you actually did this, stick your head outside the normal boundaries of the world.

When you do escape, many things come looking for you. Things you can't even imagine until you experience them.

Thank you so much for your explanation and all others who have contributed to this thread. :heart:

[Agape]

Yes i guess it is nearly impossible to explain without having the precise sort of experience and I agree with you,
it sometimes seems to seek the lightest, most vulnerable entities in process of learning or preparing work of greater affluence.

Energy seeps through the grid at places of least resistance.

It’s when we are opened to learn, nearly placid and humbled by life already and the least likely candidate for ways of evil.

So if I’m looking at it logically it’s not more mysterious law of physics than resistance. It’s only by developing resistance and sufficient amount of psychic strength that the rogue force does not get through.


If I’m to give real small but sanitised example of the above I’m reminded of little event that happened to me long ago, when I was about 9 years old.
I’ve related it once at this forum somewhere but it would take long to find since it’s not really important one.

Started like that ...my mum, 36 that time ( oh so old and wise in my eyes, those memories always make me smile) was bunch of nerves after divorce, so much involved I don’t like mentioning it but ended up as single mom with kid(me).
It was a curse and a blessing but I’m sure she felt very troubled by the responsibility etc. In short she was so upset with me for every little thing it was unbearable at times to be at home but let’s skip the whole topic.
She calmed herself by smoking at that time( stopped about 3 years later) and we sort of both hated it. I knew she tried not to smoke but if I upset her she would.
So there was a blame game involved - of course if you ask about the true source of upsets it wasn’t me but my father but being the only daughter was already a guilt 😆

Say this happened on Sunday since stores were closed and mum ordered me to bring her pack of cigarettes from pub on corner where I hated to go,
for the bad smell itself and something she would not do at any other times.

She was extremely protective of me and little kids and cigarettes had nothing to do together, in our worldview.
Besides that I was quite allergic to the smoke so she would smoke out of window anyway:)

She gave me a blue note that wasn’t too big and guess what happened next, the least probable thing has happened. As I walked out to the street, holding it quite carefully , wind blew from somewhere behind and blew the note out of my hand.
I went after it immediately but could never find it.
It may have slipped to a manhole or something like that but in quiet, cleaned and orderly street we lived I don’t know to this day where it’s gone.

What followed was a catastrophe, personally:)

Scene one : walking back to the door, explaining what has happened, mum does not trust me a word and firmly demands I stop lying and bring the note back. Threatens me more punishment if I don’t do it.

Scene two: I return to the street searching for the dam note for an hour.

Can’t find it ..

Scene three: running to friends house( of my age) explaining what has happened, of course the other girl does understand it but likewise has no pocket money so we together break her big brothers saving box( can’t be put together again since it’s ceramic but full of little coins), count the pennies quickly and, well I go back to mum and give her those claiming the pub changed the note.

Problem number 3... the pub would not have mums favourite cigarettes.

Scene 4: mum gets angry as hell suspecting I lie to her about something big ..
so badly I ran away and around for hours,
returning late in the evening.
In the meantime, the girls parents are back, find out we broke the box, and go to complain to my mother. Of course. I hear it all from distance.

Situation looks nearly unexplainable so why even try.

Of course it all had wrong consequences and I suffered psychically till it all could be explained but brining mum to justice took much longer time.

The point has nothing to do with mum of course. The point is about the Universe not being at your right side when you need it and deserve its protection the most.


It’s almost impossible to explain “what happened in facility A” after it’s burned down together with whole project, bunch of people and evidence.

But to whomever something like this once happens they will know.

Still in odd space-time myself due to what happened in last decade. But back to myself as well for whatever it matters,
sending you hug and love to the greater Space


🙏❤️🙏

[RogeRio]

If there’s an answer to the original question I can only think and offer a metaphor.

... . ...

What happens to the initiated is painful : you’re being thrown out of the Universal order and state of harmony to a random choice.

It violates all your physical and mental energy and everything you were and are, finding yourself at unknown place, somebodies else’s timeline, more likely someone’s cloths as well.

To understand who or what caused it is really difficult, for starters but ... using your intuition and sense of Universal order again you can return and find yourself a chair.



Firstly, I tried to show the secrets "are secret" because they are not good things, which can be knowed by others whithout a instantaneous feelings / thinkings of rejection, repulsion or reprovation, and so, only who are compromised with the cults are allowed to know about.

Next step, I revealed that " betrayal " its an important secret, and I think the post from Agape (partially quoted) means the same, because The Violation of everything you were and are, its not only a self treason, but also a Life Treason, a Nature Treason.

This apparently personal and isolated treason ressonates much far then a simple person can imagine, in terms of Distort the Universe Harmony (frequencies), which ultimately creates and sustains all life forms.

Then, the betrayal as I said before, indeed, Its also a metaphor, that means a treason of fundamental Principles.

Today, I often refer to these issues calling them " Distortions ", that can be physical, psych, mental, consciential, etc, understanding that Distortions is a kind of plague, that must be avoided and healed, for those don't want to live in a precarious sick state.

The way I learned to do something good against Distortions, is knowing ourselves, our living bodies (physical, psych, mental, consciential, etc) as better as possible to us, and looking for this another wise metaphor very seriously -- The Body Knows !

[Valerie Villars]

The body DOES know rogparan. Do you keep changing your avatar? It's a bit disorienting.

[Valerie Villars]

So, equally, couldn't the primordial forces of beauty, truth, wisdom, justice, mercy, etc. also equally find the path of least resistance, out of order? I think so. It's just confusing as to how the darkness finds its way in, when they weren't summoned or welcomed.

[Agape]

So, equally, couldn't the primordial forces of beauty, truth, wisdom, justice, mercy, etc. also equally find the path of least resistance, out of order? I think so. It's just confusing as to how the darkness finds its way in, when they weren't summoned or welcomed.

I’m sure they can Valerie, yes we do find a way out of every such situation in twofold manner. Learning the path of least resistance is extremely important when facing brute, crude force or treatment that we can not fight, actually.

There are many instances of people who survived various prisons, prison camps and captivity in general where you can’t fight back in any manner least you die.
Or say, people being sanctioned to psychiatric units for some obscure social reason, ending up mistreated and unheard.
The sooner you understand you have no chance to win but start coping( or pretend to) with your capturers, admit some mistakes, put your head down, there’s at least 50:50 chance you will eventually get out alive.

Fighting back against “pure evil” does not help, the force only turns around and hits the victim with revenue.

Some friends of mine told me they would “always fight back” because it’s the nature’s healthy law. Personally, I know very little about fighting or distributing punches.
It’s not in my “healthy nature” and it mostly, hurts.

Developing resistance and protection against uncommon threats is more important once we are free, for all of us I believe.
Finding safe friends, safe net of people is not easy but it works.

:heart:

[RogeRio]

I sincerely think, this thread is surrendering good developments. I learned here (from Agape) warn about the metaphorical way to explain somethings, because I often use metaphors, but usually not warn about.



Fighting back against “pure evil” does not help, the force only turns around and hits the victim with revenue.


one wise hint - Don't Fight with Dragons, because you need to be one before can do it.

This means - you have to go down evolutionarily, and in doing so, you probably will fall into a trap, where the agressive enemies are masters of domination by force. This a kind of step-back, or a self-sacrifice made by ethical warriors to protect their cosmic brothers & families. You can think this can be seen a micro-cosmic fall of angel.

I'm telling this, because (I suspect) I'm one, now trying to escape from the entrapment (using wise and inteligence)



Some friends of mine told me they would “always fight back” because it’s the nature’s healthy law. Personally, I know very little about fighting or distributing punches. It’s not in my “healthy nature” and it mostly, hurts.


Sure, its a healthy law, but restricted to the environment where the law of the fittest is in force. What you friends told, also can be seen as something about enforce respect or set boundaries.




Developing resistance and protection against uncommon threats is more important once we are free, for all of us I believe.
Finding safe friends, safe net of people is not easy but it works.


Sure, cosmoethic egregores works like protective bubbles, or protective layers, built collectively, using " Thought Forms " like the famous three Musketeers bond " One for All and All for One " --- It Works !

Related to this egregores, you can include some new (ethics) alliance improvements by another usefull Thought Form paradigm, that is -- The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend.
:handshake:

[shaberon]

So, equally, couldn't the primordial forces of beauty, truth, wisdom, justice, mercy, etc. also equally find the path of least resistance, out of order? I think so. It's just confusing as to how the darkness finds its way in, when they weren't summoned or welcomed.

Requires total banishment or a real Circle of Protection and a good Kila.

I see some sensitive issues about what we can or cannot fight.

"Do not put the load of a dzo on a bullock." - Tibetan proverb

We may have to fight something, and if it "brings us down to its level", that means Mara or the forces of death are rising in us.

One of my antecedents was captured by the Chinese around World War Two. The Chinese have developed cruelty into an art form for millenia, and what they decided to use in this case was a cage with a starving tiger. What happened was, Sasaki Sensei sat in this cage for several minutes, perfectly calm. Eventually, the tiger pounced, and when it did, he buried his fist down its throat and killed it. No anger or cruelty on his part means no karma.

When challenged by crude, brutal force, if a single base or fearful thought arises, one should try to escape. That's "not being ready for the battle". If one can maintain pristine clarity, then, like Krishna and Arjuna, you may slaughter an entire generation. The battle of good vs. evil is one subject of the epic Mahabarata, on objective and subjective planes, an Armageddon that already happened a long time ago.

As evil tendencies within us, they can definitely be overcome, and, as any type of being, they can be converted. That is what the Kila would do. If I were to, for instance, perceive a nasty ghost that would not go away, this is not a knife that will kill it, the Kila is a peg that pins it in place until it repents. Aside from a drastic situation that might force killing, the mentality is to never do this, but more to paralyze the enemy and make it change.

[Agape]

This world has its ways that will outlast us ...

Thinking of El Paso and crowd upheaval on the planet at the moment. Thoughts connecting all of us. The intuitive impasse of why we gathered here and now, joining our hands in the circle of minds and light bodies.

People will fight each other for long yet ?

Just being rhetorical, please forgive me 🙏 just another sleepless night here.


The tendency towards aggression is inborn though it can be cultivated, trained, expanded on as you know.
There are Beings of Peace and there are Warriors. It’s two different classes of entities to start with.
With 8 billion people in the mix, it’s difficult to find either “pure warriors” with character or pure “peacenicks”.

There’s LOTS of violence shared, passed among humans every moment of their lives.

But it’s not automatically true for everybody!


Think it’s lame ? No. Return to your scriptures, for starters or if you wish anyway.

Abstinence from violence, called also ahimsa in Sanskrit is the foremost of all practice.


Think you can “kill the tiger” by bare hand? Good enough, cheers, not everyone can do that. But if you’re so good can’t you make friends with the tiger instead ?


😀


There’s a difference between being lame and dumb and abiding in non violence by principle.

It’s similar difference as between one on vegetarian diet( because it’s fashionable or perhaps they are ill) and abstaining from eating other people’s flesh.

No I don’t mean to change your diet:) I can’t. There’s a predisposition to it in our genes.

You may try to do it “the other way around” and see which one works for YOU, actually.


Not fighting is the highest form of fighting, in fact. If you abide in meditative equipoise your mind power stays intact. You take nothing give nothing.
Your opponent or attacker can break their neck in empty Space.


If you are compassionate and benevolent entity you sit through it and watch it does not happen to them.


You take no victim by principle. The victory is victory of all so is defeat.



It requires the same amount of training to resist hurting others but thus we develop resistance. We have seen many people dying on this planet already.
No day or night are worth to spend in argument or death activity. There’s plenty of it out there. We live surrounded by this dangerous world so preserve your peace.

Not because it’s easy ...but because it’s hard


🙏


I once read in a travel book but it was real story of researchers camping in the jungle being harassed by hungry tiger mama every night or so, finally they got tired of the watch so went for advice to the local guide who told them to spread sheets of (used) toilet paper around the camp and it worked on instant. Visiting tigers just groaned and backed off to the night jungle disappointedly:)
They later inquired “why” would such a simple stupid method work, actually?
The guide explained tigers feel so badly offended by the stench of human feces that they lose respect for their “food”.

[RogeRio]

This world has its ways that will outlast us ...


I see here a very refined coletive unconscious connection, which I registered in the forum half week ago, in another discussion about next Jupiter-Saturn conjunction that will happen final next year (2020)

I'm not kidding, see yourself .. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?108087-A-New-Look-at-the-Mayan-Calendar-End-Date-December-21-2020&p=1307806&viewfull=1#post1307806)

the 1st degree of Aquarius means as follows:

" the inherent power of all great human works to resist for a period longer than the lifetime of those who perform it."

The originality of the expression here without distortion of the interpretation of meaning is splendid and reverential.

could be here, some magic in the air, Is not it ?
(now I'm kidding)

[Strat]

Maybe off topic, but I thought this would fit nicely here https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=299036 As a heads up, it's a vulgar read.

It's about the Hand of Death cult. I'm not sure if the reports are real, but I've been to the Everglades at night on an airboat and it's easily possible. Sorry for the short (and shoddy) description but it's a late night and have had trouble sleeping lately. I would've made a separate thread for it but again, sleepy and too much to type.