An Amazing Suicide NDE, I seem to need to keep watching

[thepainterdoug]

Friends , This is a 15 minute video, 1 of 5 made by this woman who took her life and returned to her body . Her message is different than any others i have heard.
Its a bit weak in volume and may need ear buds etc.
The second video will start automatically and is of normal volume.Then there are 3 more.

This has me rethinking things.

Questions / Comments welcome of course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iHeeEAP3uo

[Frank V]

I'll embed it for you ─ sorry, it's the admin in me (from across the meadows). :p



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iHeeEAP3uo

[johnf]

Comments have been disabled for this video. Wow I can imagine how this could have triggered the
trolls!

[greybeard]

She is saying what the enlightened say---"There is only you"
Looking into an others eyes you see yourself--is what she said.
Chris

[thepainterdoug]

For me, the idea that our lives are all mapped out , is hard for me to encompass. that be you in prison, a murdered, under the worst pain and hardship or enjoying the easiest run of life, there is no right or wrong, no good or bad.no evil doer, not person to be judged. We are all just playing out a set part, no different that a phonograph needle playing the groove of the song we were given. this is her experience, and I do believe she is sincere and true. If true, there is no battle to be fought , no protest to be had, no resistance , no righteousness , no mission to accomplish . this is rather profound as well as disturbing

and Aragorn, many thanks for embedding the vid

[wondering]

So I really wonder if we can choose a loving (or non loving) response in the moment if it is already determined what will be. Where is our personal power, or do we even have any? Or is all that already determined by some massive algorithm, so to speak. Have all those choices already been made by us and now we are just going through the motions. I plan to watch the other videos, have only seen the first one, but it may be a situation where there are many more question than answers. Thanks, Doug. Diane

[johnf]

I just finished watching the first 4 videos on her channel so my impression might be biased, but I have never
felt quite as strongly while watching a video, that the person is right in front of me talking to me.
As well, I feel like a very pure form of myself is talking to me.

I have some similar experiences to her, including a near suicide attempt that stopped when out of nowhere
I asked with certainty that I would be answered, what will happen after I do this. I experienced a timelessness and
was aware of a different space that I was viewing while still in the body. Though I never thought of that place as purgatory
till I had a friend called it that when I described it, that is what most people would call it. I, and that friend were both raised

Catholic, like this woman.
I was impressed by her preface where she said how different various ND E's are, and how the content is probably being colored by cultural beliefs.
I have read some accounts that really seemed to be full blown advertisements for the Judeo-Christian belief system.
I lived in Mt. Shasta for 3 months in a trailer behind a woman who had an encounter with Bernadette, and whose life had some very strong parallels to
Bernadette's life, so I found that very interesting as well.


John

[Frank V]

For me, the idea that our lives are all mapped out , is hard for me to encompass. that be you in prison, a murdered, under the worst pain and hardship or enjoying the easiest run of life, there is no right or wrong, no good or bad.no evil doer, not person to be judged. We are all just playing out a set part, no different that a phonograph needle playing the groove of the song we were given. this is her experience, and I do believe she is sincere and true. If true, there is no battle to be fought , no protest to be had, no resistance , no righteousness , no mission to accomplish . this is rather profound as well as disturbing

It is hard to put something like that into words, and in doing so, most people who've been trying to convey the message that "all is one" have all more or less failed to bring the actual message across ─ either because of their own inability to grok the experience they've had, or because the linear nature of language makes it too inadequate to convey multidimensional mental concepts.

Not that I wish to portray myself as some guru, but I've always been different from other people in my understanding of things, and in how I feel the connection between all things that be. So here's how it really works...

Yes, everything that exists is all one, but you yourself ─ the person you see in the mirror ─ is not that other person who has just committed an atrocious crime in downtown New York City, or that person who is dying of famine in some backwater village in Congo that was raided by rebels (or government troops). You are not Jeffrey Epstein. You are not Donald Trump. You are not Bill Clinton. You are not Bill Gates. You are not Elon Musk. You are not the late Mahatma Gandhi. You are not the late Nelson Mandela.

There are three aspects about your being, and all three are commonly misunderstood.

The first aspect is your soul. Your soul is not a being in and of itself, but rather the blueprint for the person you are. It starts off as a "program", with a set of built-in polarities ─ inclinations toward certain things, aversion toward other things. It then gathers more information as you progress through life, or in the event of reincarnation ─ which I personally believe to be a voluntary choice, rather than a rule ─ as you progress through your many lives. But the soul itself is not alive. It is merely information, and because of that, it is actually a filter for consciousness, like a colored lens that you look though.

The second aspect is your consciousness. Many people equate this to the soul, but this is wrong too. Your consciousness is life ─ it is that which animates all things and makes them be what they were meant to be, just like the electrons coming out of the wall power socket are passing through your refrigerator and make it be a refrigerator, and then they pass through your ceiling light, and they make it be a ceiling light, and so on. Without those electrons, the objects mentioned here are only dead weight. They are meaningless. A refrigerator that isn't working isn't a refrigerator anymore. A light that isn't working isn't a light.

However, like those electrons that pass through all of your electrical appliances, consciousness is a field. See, you don't actually have consciousness, but instead, consciousness has you. You, and I, and everyone else, we are all merely figments of the imagination of this one consciousness field that animates each and every one of us, and, by looking through our soul as if it were a lens ─ here's that word again ─ it gives us that first-person perspective that allows us to say "This is me. This is who I am. I am the Self, and you are the Other."

And it is the third aspect ─ that which I personally like calling the spirit ─ which is the being that you are, the first-person perspective to yourself and the second- or third-person perspective in the eyes of someone else ─ or otherwise put, the individual, the soul that was animated by the consciousness field.

Now, there are two metaphors that I personally like using for explaining this to people. The first metaphor is that you should picture the consciousness field ─ which, by the way, is the Prime Creator, but I'll get back to that a little farther down ─ as a little boy, sitting on the carpet, surrounded by toy soldiers, and toy airplanes, and toy tanks, and toy buildings. And the little boy is re-enacting World War II.

On his left side, there are the Allied Forces ─ the British, the Americans, the Canadians, and so on. On his right side, there are the Axis Forces ─ the Nazis, the Italians and the Japanese. So the boy picks up a British Spitfire in his left hand and a German Messerschmitt in his right hand, and they have a dogfight in the air. The Spitfire shoots down the Messerschmitt. From very close up, it looks real enough, but when you look at the whole picture, you see that it's just the boy playing with his toys. It is he who is animating the Spitfire, and it is also he who is animating the Messerschmitt.

So it is with the Prime Creator. It is animating all of us, but it is the fact that this consciousness has to pass through our souls in order to make us "be alive" which gives us the feeling of being an individual. And that brings me to the second metaphor.

The second metaphor is that we are all characters in a novel. We ourselves don't know what's on the next page, but the author of the novel knows, because the novel has already been written. And because we don't know what's on the next page, we also cannot foresee all of the consequences of our own actions, which gives us a false sense of freedom, and at the same time also a sense of responsibility.

At the grander scale, however, for the Prime Creator, there is no right and no wrong. It has no personality, and therefore it also doesn't have any likes or dislikes. It is consciousness in its purest form, and it is constantly creating, in the sense that everything that happens is a manifestation of the first of all Yin/Yang dualities, namely the distinction between order and chaos, or otherwise put, between understanding and not understanding.

The Prime Creator is the conscious part of an infinite quantum singularity that resides in a superstate, and all of Creation is in fact only an attempt of the Prime Creator to collapse the wave-function and give meaning to every bit of information that it is comprised of. You cannot understand what light is unless there is dark. You cannot understand what "good" is, unless there is "evil". And to us, "evil" is undesirable, but to the Prime Creator, it is merely an abstract quantifier, and neither "good" nor "evil" have any more signficance than "white" and "black" as the colors of the pieces on a chessboard.

So, yes, we are all one, and we are all animated by the same consciousness, and this consciousness has planned everything in advance ─ although that's somewhat of an unfortunate description, because at the level of the Prime Creator, time does not exist and everything is all happening at the same time; it is only the focus of attention that is shifting from one point to the next.

But this is the Prime Creator's consciousness. We are all individuals in our experience here on Earth, and as such, our value system and our emotions are all determined by that one filtering lens ─ that blueprint that makes us all unique, i.e. the soul. :)


and Aragorn, many thanks for embedding the vid

You're welcome. I have to do it all the time over in our neck of the woods, and so when I saw your YouTube link, I just couldn't help myself. Force of habit. ;)


-------------------------------------------------


I was impressed by her preface where she said how different various ND E's are, and how the content is probably being colored by cultural beliefs.
I have read some accounts that really seemed to be full blown advertisements for the Judeo-Christian belief system.

Yes, that which you believe to be true ─ even if it is the result of subliminal indoctrination ─ becomes the reality that you yourself create. ;)

[johnf]

I left out my reaction to here there is no time statement in my post above.
The conversation seems to be moving on to time and predetermination.
I think of the story of, me, mankind, the multiverse as a program, it is multi-leveled, and

we function as writers, actors, etc on various levels, and all that is encoded as a program from various

perspectives, at which point perhaps the is a level of choice from those various perspectives,but I imagine there

is a button labeled run program, and at some point we press that button.
A harder idea to fit into all this is the probability of moments of opportunity where we can apparently jump levels, or save time.
A Course in Miracles goes on a bit about this, and says something to the effect that we all are learning the same curriculum, we have no choice

in what we learn, only when we learn it. So in the case of ND E's, there seems to be a I always knew this aspect to any realizations we have.


John

[thepainterdoug]

Wondering / thank you. these are graet and profound questions. she said all we need do is breath and don't resist. well what is that in real terms? go with the flow? accept all as is? so why lift a finger? why right a so-called wrong? and yet somehow this speaks to me and make sense.

john F to announce an attempted suicide ? fascinating. seems you were in a way station and being held for a moment. bernadette? ever hear of matron or anterell ? tell me more about shasta ?

Aragorn/ many a good analogy . soul, consciousness and spirit Ill go with that.
but for who's benefit is this all? why is this drill placed upon us? we still march in step, buying into all the worlds illusions and pleasures. why try to be better, if " better" doesn't exist?

too many questions . thanks all

[johnf]

Wondering / thank you. these are graet and profound questions. she said all we need do is breath and don't resist. well what is that in real terms? go with the flow? accept all as is? so why lift a finger? why right a so-called wrong? and yet somehow this speaks to me and make sense.

john F to announce an attempted suicide ? fascinating. seems you were in a way station and being held for a moment. bernadette? ever hear of matron or anterell ? tell me more about shasta ?

Aragorn/ many a good analogy . soul, consciousness and spirit Ill go with that.
but for who's benefit is this all? why is this drill placed upon us? we still march in step, buying into all the worlds illusions and pleasures. why try to be better, if " better" doesn't exist?

too many questions . thanks all


I think that ultimately free will is an illusion, however one fellow I like to listen to says that there is a lot of value in playing along with the illusion.
I like the idea of an optical illusion here, I exist on various levels and each of those levels as a whole acts as a lens, and adds layers of apparent self to the illusion/play/spectacle, the thing is that various parts of our self (including those that seem to be separate) can be triggered into remembering big chunks of truth along the way, and that is where helping slaves escape their owners, pointing out where someone might be using relative scriptures, or teachings as a weapon, and various "righting wrongs" activities come in. In that sense we are like living post its or something.


As far as my "attempted suicide" goes I don't call it that usually that bit was maybe coming from identifying with what this lady was saying. I have tried to describe it as a psycho drama, where parts of me knew that I was going to go into that state, trance or whatever, and let go of the suicidal compulsion, because believe me I was compelled to torture myself with suicidal thoughts at times before the incident, and there was some force behind it. But there seems to be a level of myself that knew what question to ask and had perfect faith that I would be answered, and maybe another aspect that is above the level of "purgatory", and various "heavens" above that. Along the lines of Aragorn's post, it was an interesting bit of multidimensional play acting. After the vision I had it was very much like a switch was thrown in my soul all the way down to my brain that knew that I did not want to do get this result of no feeling with a heavy layer of separateness underneath it, that I couldn't heal for a long long time. After that I put up the instrument of destruction, and walked away rather happy and went off to work, and didn't really think about that till years later.
Shasta is a long story, a lot happened in a very short time, and I saw a lot of new age stuff that I was curious about ,but realized it wasn't what I wanted.
I am convinced that there is some multi-dimensional bleed through there, and me and there seems to be a lot of people who decided to live there full time who have serious chronic illnesses. I was told that the indigenous people only went there for things like vision quests, and ceremonies, but didn't live there on a regular basis. I began to wonder years later when I found out similar things were said about Eugene where I still live.



I tried to find matron and anterelle on Dck duck go, to no avail, but I had heard some stories about this woman with a connection to Bernadette before I moved there, and I had an ex-catholic priest show up at work and talk about Marion visions before I finally decided to move to Shasta and see what I might see. Right before the move I bought a book that went over a number of these visions, holograms or whatever they were, I don't recall those two names.


John

[rgray222]

I have posted this before. This thread seems to be a good place to post it once again. This was written years ago by Andy Weir, long before he wrote the Martian and became famous. Just a little food for thought.

You were on your way home when you died.
It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me.

And that’s when you met me.
“What… what happened?” You asked. “Where am I?”
“You died,” I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words.
“There was a… a truck and it was skidding…”
“Yup,” I said.
“I… I died?”
“Yup. But don’t feel bad about it. Everyone dies,” I said.

You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. “What is this place?” You asked. “Is this the afterlife?”
“More or less,” I said.
“Are you God?” You asked.
“Yup,” I replied. “I’m God.”

“My kids… my wife,” you said.
“What about them?”
“Will they be all right?”
“That’s what I like to see,” I said. “You just died and your main concern is for your family. That’s good stuff right there.”

You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn’t look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty.

“Don’t worry,” I said. “They’ll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn’t have time to grow contempt for you. Your wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it’s any consolation, she’ll feel very guilty for feeling relieved.”

“Oh,” you said. “So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?”
“Neither,” I said. “You’ll be reincarnated.”
Ah,” you said. “So the Hindus were right,”
“All religions are right in their own way,” I said. “Walk with me.”
You followed along as we strode through the void. “Where are we going?”
“Nowhere in particular,” I said. “It’s just nice to walk while we talk.”

“So what’s the point, then?” You asked. “When I get reborn, I’ll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won’t matter.”
“Not so!” I said. “You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don’t remember them right now.”

I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. “Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It’s like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it’s hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you’ve gained all the experiences it had.
“You’ve been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven’t stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you’d start remembering everything. But there’s no point to doing that between each life.”

“How many times have I been reincarnated, then?”
“Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives.” I said. “This time around, you’ll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD.”
“Wait, what?” You stammered. “You’re sending me back in time?”
“Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from.”

“Where you come from?” You said.
“Oh sure,” I explained “I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you’ll want to know what it’s like there, but honestly you wouldn’t understand.”
“Oh,” you said, a little let down. “But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point.”
“Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don’t even know it’s happening.”
“So what’s the point of it all?”
“Seriously?” I asked. “Seriously? You’re asking me for the meaning of life? Isn’t that a little stereotypical?”
“Well it’s a reasonable question,” you persisted.

I looked you in the eye. “The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature.”
“You mean mankind? You want us to mature?”
“No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect.”
“Just me? What about everyone else?”
“There is no one else,” I said. “In this universe, there’s just you and me.”
You stared blankly at me. “But all the people on earth…”
“All you. Different incarnations of you.”

“Wait. I’m everyone!?”
“Now you’re getting it,” I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back.
“I’m every human being who ever lived?”
“Or who will ever live, yes.”
“I’m Abraham Lincoln?”
“And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added.
“I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled.
“And you’re the millions he killed.”
“I’m Jesus?”
“And you’re everyone who followed him.”
You fell silent.
“Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”

You thought for a long time.
“Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?”
“Because someday, you will become like me. Because that’s what you are. You’re one of my kind. You’re my child.”
“Whoa,” you said, incredulous. “You mean I’m a God?”
“No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.”
“So the whole universe,” you said, “it’s just…”
“An egg.” I answered. “Now it’s time for you to move on to your next life.”

And I sent you on your way

Source; Andy Weir
The Egg

[johnf]

"Source; Andy Weir The Egg" I read your whole post there,rgray, and I couldn't shake the feeling that I was reading something by Richard Bach.
That passage there is a very non intellectual way to splain it.


John

[syrwong]

Her experience agrees with the numerous stories of NDE and reincarnation i have heard, actually her realizations are all described elsewhere. All these stories form a remarkably consistent whole, which is a system of philosophy that I think is truth, is timeless. Understanding this philosophy is very beneficial to the development of the soul.

[thepainterdoug]

john f / metatron https://www.shiftfrequency.com/james-tyberonn-the-magic-of-mount-shasta/

SYRWONG/ YES TRUE, i have listened to many. but the breath and don't resist comment , that there is nothing to fix, nothing to strive for no good or bad, right and wrong , does challenge ones thoughts

[Frank V]

[...]

but for who's benefit is this all? why is this drill placed upon us? we still march in step, buying into all the worlds illusions and pleasures. why try to be better, if " better" doesn't exist?


[...]

but the breath and don't resist comment , that there is nothing to fix, nothing to strive for no good or bad, right and wrong , does challenge ones thoughts

It does indeed challenge one's thoughts, and for that matter, in a dangerous way too. On the one hand, there is the perspective that nothing really matters and that it's all okay, regardless of what happens. And that's a cynically comforting thought for those who are lazy and complacent.

On the other hand, however, that is merely the perspective of the Prime Creator, which is a pure consciousness field, without a soul of its own, and thus, without a personality, without likes and dislikes, without any judgment, and without any intentions other than the (perhaps selfish) desire to understand itself and give meaning to all of the information it is comprised of ─ that which in quantum mechanics is called "the collapse of the wave-function".

But should we accept that? No, we shouldn't. After all, that's why we are us and not it. It is our journey here, our battle, which helps the Prime Creator give meaning to everything ─ it is the very reason why we exist in the first place ─ but because we are as we are, with personalities, with a sense of responsibility, that we also have to strive for what we ourselves believe in. When you stop doing that, that's when you lose your soul.

Just because the Prime Creator is a loveless entity doesn't have to mean that we have to become loveless entities. Our existence here has meaning, even to us. And that is what matters. No sitting back and singing "Nothing Else Matters".

We are co-creators, because collectively, we determine the future for ourselves and our peers, and we ourselves do understand responsibility, and love, and compassion, and hope. The very fact that we do understand and feel those things is what makes it our duty to try and aim for the best we can be and do. And that's what it means, "to have a soul".

Too many people are seeking enlightenment. This is wrong. Enlightenment cannot be found. Instead, enlightenment finds you. And you are who you are, and you feel how you feel, and you believe in what you believe.

So be who you are, feel how you feel, and fight for what you believe in. Even if you fail, you will still have tried. And that, my friend, is what makes you a hero.

:)


P.S.: There are of course other players in the game. It's not just us down here on Earth (or on another planet) and the Prime Creator.

As one William S. wrote ─ or was it really Sir Francis Bacon? :p ─ "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

[XelNaga]

For me, the idea that our lives are all mapped out , is hard for me to encompass. that be you in prison, a murdered, under the worst pain and hardship or enjoying the easiest run of life, there is no right or wrong, no good or bad.no evil doer, not person to be judged. We are all just playing out a set part, no different that a phonograph needle playing the groove of the song we were given. this is her experience, and I do believe she is sincere and true. If true, there is no battle to be fought , no protest to be had, no resistance , no righteousness , no mission to accomplish . this is rather profound as well as disturbing

It is hard to put something like that into words, and in doing so, most people who've been trying to convey the message that "all is one" have all more or less failed to bring the actual message across ─ either because of their own inability to grok the experience they've had, or because the linear nature of language makes it too inadequate to convey multidimensional mental concepts.

Not that I wish to portray myself as some guru, but I've always been different from other people in my understanding of things, and in how I feel the connection between all things that be. So here's how it really works...

Yes, everything that exists is all one, but you yourself ─ the person you see in the mirror ─ is not that other person who has just committed an atrocious crime in downtown New York City, or that person who is dying of famine in some backwater village in Congo that was raided by rebels (or government troops). You are not Jeffrey Epstein. You are not Donald Trump. You are not Bill Clinton. You are not Bill Gates. You are not Elon Musk. You are not the late Mahatma Gandhi. You are not the late Nelson Mandela.

There are three aspects about your being, and all three are commonly misunderstood.

The first aspect is your soul. Your soul is not a being in and of itself, but rather the blueprint for the person you are. It starts off as a "program", with a set of built-in polarities ─ inclinations toward certain things, aversion toward other things. It then gathers more information as you progress through life, or in the event of reincarnation ─ which I personally believe to be a voluntary choice, rather than a rule ─ as you progress through your many lives. But the soul itself is not alive. It is merely information, and because of that, it is actually a filter for consciousness, like a colored lens that you look though.

The second aspect is your consciousness. Many people equate this to the soul, but this is wrong too. Your consciousness is life ─ it is that which animates all things and makes them be what they were meant to be, just like the electrons coming out of the wall power socket are passing through your refrigerator and make it be a refrigerator, and then they pass through your ceiling light, and they make it be a ceiling light, and so on. Without those electrons, the objects mentioned here are only dead weight. They are meaningless. A refrigerator that isn't working isn't a refrigerator anymore. A light that isn't working isn't a light.

However, like those electrons that pass through all of your electrical appliances, consciousness is a field. See, you don't actually have consciousness, but instead, consciousness has you. You, and I, and everyone else, we are all merely figments of the imagination of this one consciousness field that animates each and every one of us, and, by looking through our soul as if it were a lens ─ here's that word again ─ it gives us that first-person perspective that allows us to say "This is me. This is who I am. I am the Self, and you are the Other."

And it is the third aspect ─ that which I personally like calling the spirit ─ which is the being that you are, the first-person perspective to yourself and the second- or third-person perspective in the eyes of someone else ─ or otherwise put, the individual, the soul that was animated by the consciousness field.

Now, there are two metaphors that I personally like using for explaining this to people. The first metaphor is that you should picture the consciousness field ─ which, by the way, is the Prime Creator, but I'll get back to that a little farther down ─ as a little boy, sitting on the carpet, surrounded by toy soldiers, and toy airplanes, and toy tanks, and toy buildings. And the little boy is re-enacting World War II.

On his left side, there are the Allied Forces ─ the British, the Americans, the Canadians, and so on. On his right side, there are the Axis Forces ─ the Nazis, the Italians and the Japanese. So the boy picks up a British Spitfire in his left hand and a German Messerschmitt in his right hand, and they have a dogfight in the air. The Spitfire shoots down the Messerschmitt. From very close up, it looks real enough, but when you look at the whole picture, you see that it's just the boy playing with his toys. It is he who is animating the Spitfire, and it is also he who is animating the Messerschmitt.

So it is with the Prime Creator. It is animating all of us, but it is the fact that this consciousness has to pass through our souls in order to make us "be alive" which gives us the feeling of being an individual. And that brings me to the second metaphor.

The second metaphor is that we are all characters in a novel. We ourselves don't know what's on the next page, but the author of the novel knows, because the novel has already been written. And because we don't know what's on the next page, we also cannot foresee all of the consequences of our own actions, which gives us a false sense of freedom, and at the same time also a sense of responsibility.

At the grander scale, however, for the Prime Creator, there is no right and no wrong. It has no personality, and therefore it also doesn't have any likes or dislikes. It is consciousness in its purest form, and it is constantly creating, in the sense that everything that happens is a manifestation of the first of all Yin/Yang dualities, namely the distinction between order and chaos, or otherwise put, between understanding and not understanding.

The Prime Creator is the conscious part of an infinite quantum singularity that resides in a superstate, and all of Creation is in fact only an attempt of the Prime Creator to collapse the wave-function and give meaning to every bit of information that it is comprised of. You cannot understand what light is unless there is dark. You cannot understand what "good" is, unless there is "evil". And to us, "evil" is undesirable, but to the Prime Creator, it is merely an abstract quantifier, and neither "good" nor "evil" have any more signficance than "white" and "black" as the colors of the pieces on a chessboard.

So, yes, we are all one, and we are all animated by the same consciousness, and this consciousness has planned everything in advance ─ although that's somewhat of an unfortunate description, because at the level of the Prime Creator, time does not exist and everything is all happening at the same time; it is only the focus of attention that is shifting from one point to the next.

But this is the Prime Creator's consciousness. We are all individuals in our experience here on Earth, and as such, our value system and our emotions are all determined by that one filtering lens ─ that blueprint that makes us all unique, i.e. the soul. :)


and Aragorn, many thanks for embedding the vid

You're welcome. I have to do it all the time over in our neck of the woods, and so when I saw your YouTube link, I just couldn't help myself. Force of habit. ;)


-------------------------------------------------


I was impressed by her preface where she said how different various ND E's are, and how the content is probably being colored by cultural beliefs.
I have read some accounts that really seemed to be full blown advertisements for the Judeo-Christian belief system.

Yes, that which you believe to be true ─ even if it is the result of subliminal indoctrination ─ becomes the reality that you yourself create. ;)

Dear Aragorn,

I really like your explanations and metaphors. Some similar things I've heard before, some I haven't, but I must say that it was one really interesting and thought provoking post. Great job, good sir :happythumbsup:

If you do not mind me asking, where did you get all of this from?

Or is it your personal knowing?

Thanks in advance..

[greybeard]

I think people get this information when they are ready to hear it.
Science has proved that the mind does not relay things as they are but instead trys to make sense of things even before you get the filtered information.
One example given.
In an audio experiment--Parts os a song were removed but when the person hear the ffamiliar song the brain filled in the missing parts--the difference was not noted--heard.

So in the video--lack of free will was implied--
timeless experience
the soul is perfect
No need to improve in any way.
You are eternal
The body is born but you never were--eternal is without beginning or end.
Awareness is unaffected.

Basically it could be said that we are here just to experience--without being effected in any way.
We are the witness consciousness.

These are things that mystics have been testifying to for thousands of years.

Most people are not drawn to non duality.
They get pulled into the play of consciousness rather that being the witness.
This is also spoken of in the video--she saw things as happening to her--sometimes in victim mode.
After the NDE she saw thins as they really are.

Science is now proving what the mind cant accept---we live in a seamless reality.
The energy of consciousness is everywhere--no gaps.

I was at the eye clinic today and was amazed to see in an official publication about the mind--the advantage of awareness and staying in the only moment there is--the Now and how people dont see- experience things the same because of mind "set" the information is filtered to suit--it has to make sense to the individual.

Chris

[Frank V]

Dear Aragorn,

I really like your explanations and metaphors. Some similar things I've heard before, some I haven't, but I must say that it was one really interesting and thought provoking post. Great job, good sir :happythumbsup:

If you do not mind me asking, where did you get all of this from?

Or is it your personal knowing?

Thanks in advance..

Well, parts of it are constructed from knowledge I have gathered through external sources ─ e.g. quantum physics ─ but the rest is pretty much based upon self-knowledge and analysis of my own being.

As I said, I have always been different from other people in how I have always felt this "oneness" of everything, all throughout my life.

There is a backstory to this ─ a reason as to why I am different, and this has been confirmed by several unrelated psychics ─ but I'd rather not get into that here and now. In fact, I don't even like talking about it anymore, because I have been met with ridicule, even here within this alternative community, and certainly out there in the mainstream world.

:yield:

[thepainterdoug]

ARAGORN SAID/ Just because the Prime Creator is a loveless entity doesn't have to mean that we have to become loveless entities. Our existence here has meaning, even to us. And that is what matters. No sitting back and singing "Nothing Else Matters".

To call anyone "Loveless" we first need a clear definition of Love? how would you define love?

also, I don't think I could ever live a non caring uninvolved life. I too believe our existence has meaning. And I go about my life boots on the ground with that in mind. Every now and then I ride a sweet spot of "trying without trying" . Its a nuance, but something very real . I think it echoes to some degree Kellys video description of "breath and don't resist".

[greybeard]

The energy that we are of is Love.
Nasargadatta said that he fluctuates between love and emptiness.
The enlightened also called Godmen in India radiate love.
Ten minutes listening to any talk by Mooji and you will see it.
The lady in the video has love in her eyes.

Could be said we are at the movies--enjoy the story of me and the interactions with seeming other but know that you are so much more than current assumed identity.

Im not claiming to know but ive watched hundreds of videos read countless books of those that certainly seem to be enlightened.

Those that have had NDE's certainly found that they became more loving in this life, which is temporary.

Chris

[thepainterdoug]

Thanks Chris. Im on board with all you share. I asked what Love is, not because I don't know what I know of its meaning, but because I was curious of the posters definition. If we call someone Love less it implies we are sure of what love is. I'm not so sure people know or at least agree .

[Frank V]

Thanks Chris. Im on board with all you share. I asked what Love is, not because I don't know what I know of its meaning, but because I was curious of the posters definition. If we call someone Love less it implies we are sure of what love is. I'm not so sure people know or at least agree .

Well, perhaps the clue is in the premise you make, Doug. You literally wrote "to call someone loveless". The Prime Creator is not a "someone". It is pure consciousness, and it doesn't have any emotions. There is only thought, and the thought is us (and everything else in existence).

Now, you could argue that it must know love because we are its thoughts, and we ourselves know love. Well, there's the clue. It is through us that the Prime Creator is learning what love is ─ as well as what hate is, what envy is, what compassion is, and so on with every other emotional state. We, the little beings all across Creation, are what give meaning to Creation, and thus, to everything the Prime Creator is made up of. Because without Creation, all the Prime Creator is, is an infinite field of undefined and therefore meaningless information ─ nothing but white noise.

Again, here's that multidimensional thing going on again. We are like the apples on a tree, and the tree is the Prime Creator. As such, we are distinct ─ some apples are greener, other are redder, some are bigger, other are smaller, and so on ─ while at the same time we are not, because an apple is only part of the tree's reproductive system, and thus, the apple is itself a part of the tree.

As for what love is, that is difficult to define in unambiguous wording. Love is a state of being, in which you emanate a cherishing and nourishing vibration unto something other than yourself, thereby paying full respect to the sovereignty of this entity that is distinct from you, and without expecting anything in return.

Wanting to be with someone is not love, although it can be a side-effect of love. ;)

[Rich]

I asked what Love is, not because I don't know what I know of its meaning, but because I was curious of the posters definition. If we call someone Love less it implies we are sure of what love is. I'm not so sure people know or at least agree .
I kinda suspect that being ignorant is a prerequisite for being human, if we fully knew our Real/High Self I don't think this illusion would be possible, at least
from what I experienced and heard from others, a human can only feel a tiny amount of the love we really are.

[Rich]

My experience in the spirit world had a lot of christian symbolism...lamb, sheep, stable, the 3 kings, carrying of the cross (that was the physical counter part, in the spirit these things don't exist) but I'm not a christian or ever was one so it was not something I expected at all.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

For me, the idea that our lives are all mapped out , is hard for me to encompass. that be you in prison, a murdered, under the worst pain and hardship or enjoying the easiest run of life, there is no right or wrong, no good or bad.no evil doer, not person to be judged. We are all just playing out a set part, no different that a phonograph needle playing the groove of the song we were given. this is her experience, and I do believe she is sincere and true. If true, there is no battle to be fought , no protest to be had, no resistance , no righteousness , no mission to accomplish . this is rather profound as well as disturbing

We're not quite automatons like that Doug, so I wouldn't worry. Our lives are mapped out, and by us ourselves before we incarnate. It's no different than how we map out our day. We have a plan, a path. A destination we want to reach, a goal we want to attain, an error we want to correct. With all the baggage that we carry on our shoulders we go forth and set about our task the best that we can, slipping and tripping, or getting distracted along the way, sometimes getting hopelessly lost. Our hearts carry the map, if only we would listen and read it more often. Of course we don't have to follow it if we don't want to. We're not limited to one try, one life. We have choice, free will, and that's what makes us unique.

But there is purpose to life, and there are things to accomplish. This is evidenced by the fact that we are all here :)

[thepainterdoug]

Aragorn said/
As for what love is, that is difficult to define in unambiguous wording. Love is a state of being, in which you emanate a cherishing and nourishing vibration unto something other than yourself, thereby paying full respect to the sovereignty of this entity that is distinct from you, and without expecting anything in return.

Perfect my friend!!!


and thanks Star Mariner for your clarification . Rich most people who had an NDE say the love is beyond anything we can grasp here.

[Ratszinger]

For me, the idea that our lives are all mapped out , is hard for me to encompass. that be you in prison, a murdered, under the worst pain and hardship or enjoying the easiest run of life, there is no right or wrong, no good or bad.no evil doer, not person to be judged. We are all just playing out a set part, no different that a phonograph needle playing the groove of the song we were given. this is her experience, and I do believe she is sincere and true. If true, there is no battle to be fought , no protest to be had, no resistance , no righteousness , no mission to accomplish . this is rather profound as well as disturbing

and Aragorn, many thanks for embedding the vid

When I was very young my grandfather died. I didn't know it at the time but he was actually my'step-grandfather' and one Christmas he came to the house which was unusual although he lived just two houses down the street, he announced as he came in that he had silver dollars for the grand-kids for Christmas! Well, I didn't get one! So I naturally assumed that meant he didn't like me very much. I didn't know my dad was my step dad so to me it was easy to see he just didn't like me for some reason.
Anyway, I grew up with this idea of him and when he died and as the emergency crew were carrying him out on the stretcher with a sheet over him my mom said to me, "You never got to say goodbye to your grandfather!", like that and I replied, 'Well mom, I don't think he really ever liked me that much anyways' or something along that lines and thought nothing more of it. That is until he came to my bedside that night and took me from my body. God I've seen that stone building she saw. I've seen that same pink and I've thought to myself that my grandfather did something to me that night when he came by me when still young and took me out. We walked around the block and I couldn't tell you what we talked about now but we did and it was profound because I awoke with this admiration, knowing of the man I'd never seen and was now close to him.

After this night I've left my body so often in my sleep that when I began smoking pot originally after simply refusing for years to even try it it was only because the person presenting it to me to try was offering it for relief to my night terror trips as a youth. He said that if you smoke pot a lot you don't remember your dreams so guess what I started doing?

Each time I'd straighten up I'd drift out in my sleep remembering again and then even smoking it began still being remembered just not as well. I too was left with same distinct feeling that my life was mapped out and that the people in it were long time associates and family like friends of like minded wants for experience. I know my soul family and all about what I was told were get this, "Soul Contracts" we establish and my experience need not be limited to just my light, my awareness. Any physical experience you want to hop into to experience is open to us even birds, smaller critters, wolves, and more. We just don't remember our own abilities. That is what I've been told.

Like this we're dominoes all standing on end free and above thought we 'fall' into this existence purposefully and the fall metaphorically begins with the first intent and from that first movement or action into the experience the entire experience is then locked into place start to finish. The way you start determines then and there the way it ends. Picture a bunch of dominoes all standing on end on this stone crystal city resonant platform. Those are us lets say for argument sake. One begins to fade off and as it falls metaphorically speaking it's your life experience which you get to experience every tick of as you fall into the experience deeper and deeper until you land because of this illusion of time. The way you were going to land and end and die was determined from the very first intent the same way it was determined how the domino would land end and finally stop before the experience of the fall was over. You basically know all this ahead of the experience.

We ride the fall of life as we go deeper into the experience which we picked and mapped. It is much more than this though which I did write about but it's so difficult to read I hesitate to show it.

[Peter UK]

I asked what Love is, not because I don't know what I know of its meaning, but because I was curious of the posters definition. If we call someone Love less it implies we are sure of what love is. I'm not so sure people know or at least agree .

from what I experienced and heard from others, a human can only feel a tiny amount of the love we really are.

Couldn't agree more.

If we were to experience anywhere near what is even remotely available we would end up either weeping uncontrollably or spontaneously combusting. These kind of experiences can only momentarily be glimpsed as has been attested by the mystics through the ages.

[Ratszinger]

I found what I had written down when still fresh in memory. Small paste. For what it's worth I mean.

Many of us have worked out arrangements with various other light beings of conscious awareness and these arrangements are all about energies which we have equal interest in obtaining.. These others we contract with, are much like us in desire and goals and therefore team together as friends, mates, chums, whatever but both protecting their investment in this contract.

This investment is of course, the vessel, and as part of the arrangement the guides act just that way by guiding each other during the life experiences so that experiences wanted or needed were achieved. These contracts can be with one or many various aware beings of any number of appearances and desires. We know them by our families and friends, and those we have reincarnated with repeatedly! Yes this includes even our pets!

It may mean some discomfort on occasion, that you hurt yourself, fall on your face, do bad habits, or abuses to yourself while experiencing here. Oh and then as always after we do these stupid things we wonder why we did it. The ego does not always accept or realize that some experiences were simply mapped in and are bound to happen. There are even times when these other beings we contract with, occupy or take over the vessel for various reasons to be sure something occurs.

While true, many times it is also those involved in your life that guide and direct choices, events and people that come into your life at certain times, or habits or, routines that come and go, its all in aiding you to get the experience you wanted while at the same time they gain what they benefit as well. Sometimes you need to fall on your face or be made to in order for some things to happen, or for some people to be met and so on along your path! These arrangements are made by that light being which is the 'real you'. And those walking with you sharing in this vessel experience insure that takes place!

[thepainterdoug]

Ratazinger/ the story of you grandfather, and the analogy of dominos was fantastic. All this, all the comments here from everyone all contribute to this realization in myself as well as others as to our purpose here. Its all incredible and I think it rang a bell in me with Kellys video because it was time to do so.

Again, its not the crossing over or the white light etc of so many NDE,S I have listened to , its the idea that it was all decided, all mapped out by all us of us prior to our arrival. and there is no good or bad right or wrong. those are our labels our learned judgements. To proceed in a life knowing this, has to look different. A sort of trying without trying as I called it earlier.

[Peter UK]

For me, the idea that our lives are all mapped out , is hard for me to encompass. that be you in prison, a murdered, under the worst pain and hardship or enjoying the easiest run of life, there is no right or wrong, no good or bad.no evil doer, not person to be judged. We are all just playing out a set part, no different that a phonograph needle playing the groove of the song we were given. this is her experience, and I do believe she is sincere and true. If true, there is no battle to be fought , no protest to be had, no resistance , no righteousness , no mission to accomplish . this is rather profound as well as disturbing

It is hard to put something like that into words, and in doing so, most people who've been trying to convey the message that "all is one" have all more or less failed to bring the actual message across ─ either because of their own inability to grok the experience they've had, or because the linear nature of language makes it too inadequate to convey multidimensional mental concepts.

In examples such as the above words are woefully inadequate, they can only ever point towards such things and never become the descriptor thereof.

:)




So it is with the Prime Creator. It is animating all of us, but it is the fact that this consciousness has to pass through our souls in order to make us "be alive" which gives us the feeling of being an individual.

'be alive' are key words here.

[amor]

Is it possible we are being fed through a gigantic akasic (?) record so that WE, if there is a WE, all come out with the same knowledge? I recently viewed the photo of the most beautiful exotic kitten. Its eyes looked into your soul and I could see an eternity of love and being behind those eyes. If all of this experience does not grow love most intense and most sacred, what use is it?

[Peter UK]

I recently viewed the photo of the most beautiful exotic kitten. Its eyes looked into your soul and I could see an eternity of love and being behind those eyes. If all of this experience does not grow love most intense and most sacred, what use is it?

To see a world in a grain of sand.
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand.
And eternity in an hour.

William Blake 1757–1827

:)

[Cara]

I recently viewed the photo of the most beautiful exotic kitten. Its eyes looked into your soul and I could see an eternity of love and being behind those eyes. If all of this experience does not grow love most intense and most sacred, what use is it?

“To see a world in a grain of sand.
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand.
And eternity in an hour'.

William Blake 1757 – 1827

:)

Well, with that lovely quote, I have to share this:

uFKOGvEPWw4

[Andre]

The first aspect is your soul. Your soul is not a being in and of itself, but rather the blueprint for the person you are. It starts off as a "program", with a set of built-in polarities ─ inclinations toward certain things, aversion toward other things. It then gathers more information as you progress through life, or in the event of reincarnation ─ which I personally believe to be a voluntary choice, rather than a rule ─ as you progress through your many lives. But the soul itself is not alive. It is merely information, and because of that, it is actually a filter for consciousness, like a colored lens that you look though.

Aragorn, I'm not sure how many of us would agree that "the soul itself is not alive" when many of us possibly feel that the word "soul" refers to the part of us that is closest to the Creator, Source, God.

[greybeard]

In line with the very last part of video 5
There is only one soul.
All the "others" she saw were herself.
That really is impossible for the mind to take in.
Advaita says "One without a second" nothing can be stated clearer than that.
Is it true--I dont know from my own experience but non-duality sages all say that.
Eckhart Tolle said "There was never anyone there to harm you"
The Self can not be harmed.
The body can be.
The video is full of this information.
I had to hear this kind of information over and over from different "teachers" before I could begin to get a hold of it intellectually and thats far short of what is pointed to by those with direct experience--like the woman in the video and this thread points to

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43027-Enlightenment-A-direct-succinct-account-of-what-occurs...&p=456904&viewfull=1#post456904.

[Frank V]

The first aspect is your soul. Your soul is not a being in and of itself, but rather the blueprint for the person you are. It starts off as a "program", with a set of built-in polarities ─ inclinations toward certain things, aversion toward other things. It then gathers more information as you progress through life, or in the event of reincarnation ─ which I personally believe to be a voluntary choice, rather than a rule ─ as you progress through your many lives. But the soul itself is not alive. It is merely information, and because of that, it is actually a filter for consciousness, like a colored lens that you look though.

Aragorn, I'm not sure how many of us would agree that "the soul itself is not alive" when many of us possibly feel that the word "soul" refers to the part of us that is closest to the Creator, Source, God.

It's just a matter of semantics, Andre. I'm trying to use a vernacular that could be understood in order to explain a concept that is generally misunderstood, or that is all too often gratuitously touted without comprehension.

Words are only words, after all, and they will always fail to bring such a point across.;)

[petra]

She is saying what the enlightened say---"There is only you"
Looking into an others eyes you see yourself--is what she said.
Chris

Thanks Chris, I won't try to watch videos at work so I really appreciate that little snip! Bookmarking for a later date... :)

I can relate to the that feeling of looking into another's eyes and seeing myself looking back at me. I've considered suicide before too, and what I think kept me from killing myself was my own thoughts reassuring me.

"Don't think nobody loves you, Silly" really hit me in the heart, and it seems as if I told myself exactly what I needed to hear.


Is it possible we are being fed through a gigantic akasic (?) record so that WE, if there is a WE, all come out with the same knowledge?

Interesting, and familiar sounding too...
That sounds like a pretty good plan, if we can avoid "Same Person Problem" ;-)



Too many people are seeking enlightenment. This is wrong. Enlightenment cannot be found. Instead, enlightenment finds you. And you are who you are, and you feel how you feel, and you believe in what you believe.


I could not agree more with this!!!

To illustrate, when I was much younger I recall thinking that I don't expect to understand some things, especially very complicated things. Now, as I grow older, my mind seems to me "understanding things by itself", and it almost feels like some kind of cosmic joke.

I hate to bring God into this but the way I see it is, we'll understand when God lets us understand - and not before.

[Hervé]

Words and definitions... concepts... reference systems...

Here is the quintessential extract of the very old Gypsy oral tradition as distilled over many generations of observations of what life consists of:
“The figure 3 and its geometrical transcription – the triangle -- means “Life.” Numerous jewelries are constructed around that number. According to Tzigans, Man as a whole is constituted of a body which rots, a spirit which persists and an immaterial body as an interface between these two.” (Pierre Derlon; Traditions Occultes des Gitans)
... the "Spirit - Mind - Body" thing.

From my perspective, a "body" is also following a blue print for its development, always the same, across millions of years (http://www.eartharchives.org/articles/trapped-in-time-the-top-10-amber-fossils/), without one iota of a change and which some call the "Genetic Entity".

The interface is variously known as "mind," "soul," "emotional body," etc... it is the one that's "controlled," hypnotized, manipulated, etc... and influences both body and spirit via its "programs."

As for "spirit", that's the enigma... that's YOU!


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OzcdAUA9YJs/Uh06902W3kI/AAAAAAAAVws/Mv2AvaX85Zk/s200/triskelion+-+Ariosophy+-+Guido+von+List+-+Deutschland+ostmark+-+Peter+Crawford.png

[thepainterdoug]

ARMOR/ I had a dragonfly land on the edge of my computer while outside writing, and then fly away and return 3 times . It even let me touch it. When my mom passed, 3 years ago a dragonfly flew right into my coffee cup . I think we share love here, but its similar to bright light, in that those who have crossed over speak of an immensely brighter light yet soft on the eyes. Its levels , and we here in this density are at a lower level in all we experience in comparison.

Greybeard. Don't want to put pressure on you, lol , but your a very wise soul! I gain and enjoy from all you offer.

Herve/ thanks, great insights.

Course in Miracles speaks to much of this. But Kelly , and others like her crossed the mountain and came back tell us all whats on the other side .

This is a great gift to us all as we are all trying to see for ourselves, many taking more difficult paths, many finding a trail that works. On a personal level, my sister who has messed her life up with drugs, got AIDS and now Kidney failure has beat herself up so badly making a judgement about herself as " being bad". We all have done this to varying degrees.

Well she should of passed on about 10 times over the past 38 years, but just celebrated her 60th Birthday! 38 years with HIV. Doctors wanter her on dialysis 2 years ago. She refused, went on hospice to die and regained her health to a large degree .Seems "God"wants her here.

I shared much of the NDE with her and many others and showed her, the labels, the judgement is our doing. It was all mapped out, like actors taking on roles in a stage production. She's doing pretty well now and gets it.

Thanks everyone, those I did not mention as well for all your input.

[Wind]

Just because the Prime Creator is a loveless entity doesn't have to mean that we have to become loveless entities.

Although I do agree with many of your other points, with this I can't because it's not so. God is love in it's purest form and the blissful state of experiencing it is beyond any words or thoughts. God is love and God is good so in that case he/it is biased to a degree, but I'm not sure if God could be even called an entity. Brahman is beyond any human words or ideas. Ultimately yes, it is also beyond good and evil.

The whole point of existence is love and because of God's love we are here and we are to learn more about unconditional love.

[greybeard]

The videos are a great find thepainterdoug--much appreciated
Old and grey--smiling.

[Rich]

After this night I've left my body so often in my sleep that when I began

sirdipswitch suggested that when we are out of body we should not mess around and immediately call our High Self. I can say from my own experience that it is possible to meet him/her! :luv:

[XelNaga]

Dear Aragorn,

I really like your explanations and metaphors. Some similar things I've heard before, some I haven't, but I must say that it was one really interesting and thought provoking post. Great job, good sir :happythumbsup:

If you do not mind me asking, where did you get all of this from?

Or is it your personal knowing?

Thanks in advance..

Well, parts of it are constructed from knowledge I have gathered through external sources ─ e.g. quantum physics ─ but the rest is pretty much based upon self-knowledge and analysis of my own being.

As I said, I have always been different from other people in how I have always felt this "oneness" of everything, all throughout my life.

There is a backstory to this ─ a reason as to why I am different, and this has been confirmed by several unrelated psychics ─ but I'd rather not get into that here and now. In fact, I don't even like talking about it anymore, because I have been met with ridicule, even here within this alternative community, and certainly out there in the mainstream world.

:yield:

Well that's a shame, I'm sure your story would be interesting to hear.

[Rich]

Btw great find painterdoug, only watched first part but will watch the rest later, I think this should be right on topic:

From ACIM Chapter 27

The "Hero" of the Dream

The body is the central figure in the dreaming of the world. There is no dream without it, nor does it exist without the dream in which it acts as if it were a person to be seen and be believed. It takes the central place in every dream, which tells the story of how it was made by other bodies, born into the world outside the body, lives a little while and dies, to be united in the dust with other bodies dying like itself. In the brief time allotted it to live, it seeks for other bodies as its friends and enemies. Its safety is its main concern. Its comfort is its guiding rule. It tries to look for pleasure, and avoid the things that would be hurtful. Above all, it tries to teach itself its pains and joys are different and can be told apart.

The dreaming of the world takes many forms, because the body seeks in many ways to prove it is autonomous and real. It puts things on itself that it has bought with little metal discs or paper strips the world proclaims as valuable and real. It works to get them, doing senseless things, and tosses them away for senseless things it does not need and does not even want. It hires other bodies, that they may protect it and collect more senseless things that it can call its own. It looks about for special bodies that can share its dream. Sometimes it dreams it is a conqueror of bodies weaker than itself. But in some phases of the dream, it is the slave of bodies that would hurt and torture it.

The body's serial adventures, from the time of birth to dying are the theme of every dream the world has ever had. The "hero" of this dream will never change, nor will its purpose. Though the dream itself takes many forms, and seems to show a great variety of places and events wherein its "hero" finds itself, the dream has but one purpose, taught in many ways. This single lesson does it try to teach again, and still again, and yet once more; that it is cause and not effect. And you are its effect, and cannot be its cause.
Thus are you not the dreamer, but the dream. And so you wander idly in and out of places and events that it contrives. That this is all the body does is true, for it is but a figure in a dream. But who reacts to figures in a dream unless he sees them as if they were real? The instant that he sees them as they are they have no more effects on him, because he understands he gave them their effects by causing them and making them seem real.
How willing are you to escape effects of all the dreams the world has ever had? Is it your wish to let no dream appear to be the cause of what it is you do? Then let us merely look upon the dream's beginning, for the part you see is but the second part, whose cause lies in the first. No one asleep and dreaming in the world remembers his attack upon himself. No one believes there really was a time when he knew nothing of a body, and could never have conceived this world as real. He would have seen at once that these ideas are one illusion, too ridiculous for anything but to be laughed away. How serious they now appear to be! And no one can remember when they would have met with laughter and with disbelief. We can remember this, if we but look directly at their cause. And we will see the grounds for laughter, not a cause for fear.

Let us return the dream he gave away unto the dreamer, who perceives the dream as separate from himself and done to him. Into eternity, where all is one, there crept a tiny, mad idea, at which the Son of God remembered not to laugh. In his forgetting did the thought become a serious idea, and possible of both accomplishment and real effects. Together, we can laugh them both away, and understand that time cannot intrude upon eternity. It is a joke to think that time can come to circumvent eternity, which means there is no time.

A timelessness in which is time made real; a part of God that can attack itself; a separate brother as an enemy; a mind within a body all are forms of circularity whose ending starts at its beginning, ending at its cause. The world you see depicts exactly what you thought you did. Except that now you think that what you did is being done to you. The guilt for what you thought is being placed outside yourself, and on a guilty world that dreams your dreams and thinks your thoughts instead of you. It brings its vengeance, not your own. It keeps you narrowly confined within a body, which it punishes because of all the sinful things the body does within its dream. You have no power to make the body stop its evil deeds because you did not make it, and cannot control its actions nor its purpose nor its fate.

The world but demonstrates an ancient truth; you will believe that others do to you exactly what you think you did to them. But once deluded into blaming them you will not see the cause of what they do, because you want the guilt to rest on them. How childish is the petulant device to keep your innocence by pushing guilt outside yourself, but never letting go! It is not easy to perceive the jest when all around you do your eyes behold its heavy consequences, but without their trifling cause. Without the cause do its effects seem serious and sad indeed. Yet they but follow. And it is their cause that follows nothing and is but a jest.

In gentle laughter does the Holy Spirit perceive the cause, and looks not to effects. How else could He correct your error, who have overlooked the cause entirely? He bids you bring each terrible effect to Him that you may look together on its foolish cause and laugh with Him a while. You judge effects, but He has judged their cause. And by His judgment are effects removed. Perhaps you come in tears. But hear Him say, "My brother, holy Son of God, behold your idle dream, in which this could occur. "And you will leave the holy instant with your laughter and your brother's joined with His.

The secret of salvation is but this: that you are doing this unto yourself. No matter what the form of the attack, this still is true. Whoever takes the role of enemy and of attacker, still is this the truth. Whatever seems to be the cause of any pain and suffering you feel, this is still true. For you would not react at all to figures in a dream you knew that you were dreaming. Let them be as hateful and as vicious as they may, they could have no effect on you unless you failed to recognize it is your dream.

This single lesson learned will set you free from suffering, whatever form it takes. The Holy Spirit will repeat this one inclusive lesson of deliverance
until it has been learned, regardless of the form of suffering that brings you pain. Whatever hurt you bring to Him He will make answer with this very simple truth. For this one answer takes away the cause of every form of sorrow and of pain. The form affects His answer not at all, for He would teach you but the single cause of all of them, no matter what their form. And you will understand that miracles reflect the simple statement, " I have done this thing, and it is this I would undo."
Bring, then, all forms of suffering to Him Who knows that every one is like the rest. He sees no differences where none exists, and He will teach you how each one is caused. None has a different cause from all the rest, and all of them are easily undone by but a single lesson truly learned. Salvation is a secret you have kept but from yourself. The universe proclaims it so. Yet to its witnesses you pay no heed at all. For they attest the thing you do not want to know. They seem to keep it secret from you. Yet you need but learn you chose but not to listen, not to see.

How differently will you perceive the world when this is recognized! When you forgive the world your guilt, you will be free of it. Its innocence does not demand your guilt, nor does your guiltlessness rest on its sins. This is the obvious; a secret kept from no one but yourself. And it is this that has maintained you separate from the world, and kept your brother separate from you. Now need you but to learn that both of you are innocent or guilty. The one thing that is impossible is that you be unlike each other; that they both be true. This is the only secret yet to learn. And it will be no secret you are healed.

[thepainterdoug]

rich prior to logging on this morning, I was thinking how Kelly is really describing what the CIM says . Then I find your post here! THANK YOU

I will read entire later today

For everyone, Im posting Kellys web site with many of her videos. I have not watched all but many are quite good. https://www.youtube.com/user/NurtureSoul/videos

[Ratszinger]

"The guilt for what you thought is being placed in an outside world, a guilty world. A world of your own expectation that brings its vengeance, or it's love not your own. It keeps you confined within a vessel, which it punishes or embraces because of all the sinful things or beautiful things the body does within its dream."


The above slams home with me.
You have no power to make the body stop its evil deeds because you did not make it in the first place, and you cannot control its actions nor its purpose nor its fate all you can do is observe what you thought you do/did thinking all the while that it's being done to you! Psalm 82-6 says, "You are Gods! I said you are all Gods of the most high"

Is God observing what he thought he did thinking all the while it's being done to him? Is God as amnesia cursed as we? Or are we simply witnessing what God already did sitting now in his place as he did it thinking it is being done to us? Is it our own doing from want when we asked to experience what God experienced? Could this be our gift?

Imagine. To witness one of the lives God lived where we actually have nothing to say about anything at all, all we can do is observe. In that world then nothing is your fault. Nothing you do or have done is or was wrong because it was not you that did this you just observe what God did during his time which you get to now witness? The sphere of our influence has how much reach? Do we really control or change anything if it was all already done, and we only go through the motions, the experience as we think or see that they happened thinking all the while that an outside force is upon us or that we are doing it? If I pick chocolate over vanilla did I really pick? If true that no I didn't pick the chocolate, God did and I had nothing to say about it then letting go into the experience is the only answer. Surrender to the observation knowing it's not your body, it isn't your life, your time, or your experience or pain or pleasure really it is a replay of Gods experience you get to now witness. No guilt. No blame. No sins. No need or desire for forgiveness. In the end all you can do is breath and not resist. Just let it ride.

[Angels1981]

I think to keep love alive is important in this day and age. If we are mere mini creators then we must comply to a higher state of being or fail. People who become suicidal may be going through experiences to see and learn from that mistake on a deep level, however, there are situations with voices in the mind or even your own failings that will launch a way to want to do that.
When I work with Angels the first thing that they told me was that energy has no wrong or right but it's what you change it into and use it for.

So that point is correct and that would make sense when you have people fighting like a checkers board dark v light but both live at the same time.
GOD is love he has to have had love in him or her to create love from the start. So maybe this is just a big lump of continuous energy which resides in love who knows.
I don't think anyone is selfish wanting to die or should I judge .. no but I think it's selfish when the creator chooses us for a mission and life purpose to come down to earth in trust that with a meat suit you can deliver the mission that your heart and soul knows about.
that's all I will say on that turf. Angel

[greybeard]

The videos are clear--you are already perfect--there is nothing to learn--only to experience.
Chris

[johnf]

So, am I blessed or cursed to seem to be stuck in this body with all the self pity/suicidal ideation programs running in it?
I think I neglected to make sure readers understood that the experience I related about a failed suicide experience, (it wasn't really an attempt) resulted in no harm to my body, no distressed parents or other loved ones. Yet I can't help but feel a little jealousy, (which is just another program)

when watching Kelly's videos because her experience seemed to run a lot deeper than mine, and the result seems to be more complete than mine.
I would like to be happier about the prospect of sticking around till the program runs it course, but I am entirely convinced that my doing so will be part of triggering others remembrances. At one point someone pointed out that my short comings, as well as the actual mistakes I made in life all had the potential of growth for others as part of the package, and that made a big difference for me.
There seems to be value in experiencing being the creator, the created, and the link between the two all at the same instant that cancels out

any lasting suffering that occurred along the way.


John

[Rich]

qguKUYNX9K0


Many people who are ignorant about the facts may not even notice that they
have died, though most will enter conditions which are quite different in many
ways and not at all in others. Having traveled via Out-of-Body experiences,
brought about by a regime of deep meditation, into other dimensional realities
over more than a forty year period, Jurgen Ziewe has kept detailed notes about
the afterlife states he encountered and recorded them in two of his books:
"Multidimensional Man" & "Vistas of Infinity - How to enjoy Life when you are Dead"

[thepainterdoug]

"Many people who are ignorant about the facts may not even notice that they
have died, though most will enter conditions which are quite different in many
ways and not at all in others."


that explains many people in my town.

I have seen an interview with Jurgen on Skeptico, was one of my favorites ever on his show. thanks, will watch

[RogeRio]

There is a backstory to this ─ a reason as to why I am different, and this has been confirmed by several unrelated psychics ─ but I'd rather not get into that here and now. In fact, I don't even like talking about it anymore, because I have been met with ridicule, even here within this alternative community, and certainly out there in the mainstream world.

I understand word by word what you means. If I'm not mistaken, I guess you are talking about "individuality" that can appears be Different, but I think in this context, is just a way of expressing your originality (individual of course, that is differentiated by definition).

Originality it's the Cat Jump that able to Create, because the individual sense of perception with a corresponding (original) form of expression, both together, can make things be Different, when you work on them.

Be individual it's a rewarding State of Art that doesn't run out, and being ridiculed for it, serves to give you a sense of your originality is working well. Don't worry much about this, but be careful to not throw your better Pearls to Pigs (metaphor)

---

I'm bookmarking posts (#8 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?108398-An-Amazing-Suicide-NDE-I-seem-to-need-to-keep-watching&p=1311180&viewfull=1#post1311180)) and (#16 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?108398-An-Amazing-Suicide-NDE-I-seem-to-need-to-keep-watching&p=1311222&viewfull=1#post1311222)), because I think they offer a great starting point to the forum members develop a comom sense about the Soul, Conscienciousness, Spirit, pehaps also the subjacent Bodies (physic, psych, mental, energetic, etc)

So, i ask if Aragorn (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?21776-Aragorn) agree that opening this subject would be a good idea, as an attempt to create a common sense based on what you described

[Frank V]

There is a backstory to this ─ a reason as to why I am different, and this has been confirmed by several unrelated psychics ─ but I'd rather not get into that here and now. In fact, I don't even like talking about it anymore, because I have been met with ridicule, even here within this alternative community, and certainly out there in the mainstream world.

I understand word by word what you means. If I'm not mistaken, I guess you are talking about "individuality" that can appears be Different, but I think in this context, is just a way of expressing your originality (individual of course, that is differentiated by definition).

Originality it's the Cat Jump that able to Create, because the individual sense of perception with a corresponding (original) form of expression, both together, can make things be Different, when you work on them.

Be individual it's a rewarding State of Art that doesn't run out, and being ridiculed for it, serves to give you a sense of your originality is working well. Don't worry much about this, but be careful to not throw your better Pearls to Pigs (metaphor)

---

I'm bookmarking posts (#8 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?108398-An-Amazing-Suicide-NDE-I-seem-to-need-to-keep-watching&p=1311180&viewfull=1#post1311180)) and (#16 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?108398-An-Amazing-Suicide-NDE-I-seem-to-need-to-keep-watching&p=1311222&viewfull=1#post1311222)), because I think they offer a great starting point to the forum members develop a comom sense about the Soul, Conscienciousness, Spirit, pehaps also the subjacent Bodies (physic, psych, mental, energetic, etc)

So, i ask if Aragorn (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?21776-Aragorn) agree that opening this subject would be a good idea, as an attempt to create a common sense based on what you described

Well, as I said, I'd rather not open that can of worms again, but I will just say the following...

For those of you familiar with the late Dolores Cannon and her books about "the three waves of volunteers", the thing is that Dolores herself got her data mixed up because of the sheer flood of information she was receiving from the people whom she was regressing, and so she ended up lumping in the Wanderers ─ i.e. souls that had already incarnated before, whether here on Earth or on other planets ─ with the three-wavers.

However, her initial information was the correct one, i.e. the members of what she called "the three waves of volunteers" have never incarnated before anywhere in the universe, and will also never incarnate again anywhere after they die from their mortal life here on Earth, simply because they are not the kind of souls that can agree with learning by making mistakes. The concept of making mistakes and of compromising on their innocence is intolerable to them.

And so here it is...: I happen to be one of those "three-wavers". Concretely, I am of the first wave, which started arriving ─ i.e. being born ─ in the early 1960s, and which kept on coming in until the mid-to-late 1970s. Then, in the early 1980s to roughly the mid 1990s, the second wave came in.

The third wave came in after that, up until approximately the year 2012 ─ don't ask me why the year 2012 would have been significant in that regard, because to me it merely marked the end of the previous baktun of the Mayan calendar and the start of a new one. I suppose it's possible that there would be some cosmic significance to it, but if there is, then I don't know.

There is also some overlap between the arrival of the "three waves", in that some of us belonging to the first or second wave arrived during the time of the second or third wave respectively, and vice versa. Some of us were late to their own party, and others were a little early.

Anyway, I would rather not make this thread about myself, because I don't like being at the center of attention ─ I'm actually rather introverted in many respects ─ and this is also not what this thread was about in the first place. There are several threads about the Dolores Cannon material here at Project Avalon already from before my departure in March 2015 ─ we even had a (now already long derelict) invitation-only community group here at the forum ─ and there are one or two short threads about it over at The One Truth as well, with some cross-references to yet other threads.

All I will still say about this subject is that I have no idea how many of us there are ─ whether of the first wave or in total ─ but the first wave's purpose is that of way-showers and teachers. We came here to set an example, so that the "real" humans would find inspiration for bringing about the changes humanity needs in order to save both themselves and the planet. The butterfly effect.

I believe the second wave's purpose could be more energetic, i.e. that they would impart an uplifting energy onto the people around them without having to actually do or say anything. I have no idea what the purpose of the third wave is, but I personally think they may end up as advisers, given that Dolores said that they were all ready and equipped to deal with the needed changes to society.

Many Wanderers have arrived here during the same time span as the "three-wavers", and this is what got Dolores confused, but the Wanderers ─ whatever their motives may have been for coming to Earth ─ are not part of the "three-wavers" proper, neither in purpose nor in nature. They are generally wiser than "native humans" and they will often also have very clear recollection of their past lives, but they are much more like "native humans" in terms of their souls than the "three-wavers" are. That which would be "human" about the "three-wavers" was all learned during our stay here on Earth. We did not bring that part with us from elsewhere.

For the first wave, arriving here was also much harder than for the second and third wave because of the very reactionary and conservative cultural climate we arrived in. We were by no means prepared for the hostility we'd find here, and many of us just couldn't survive here ─ literally, because they ended up taking their own lives.

So, there you have it. :yield: :unsure:

[thepainterdoug]

Rich/ its a very perplexing interview, almost like a world of limbo he describes , forgive my catholic reference. But his analogy to being in a dream and accepting all the weirdness as normal, makes it real world relatable for me . yet so many questions about well, whats next? need to listen again but thanks for posting

[Rich]

Jurgen Ziewe says that NDE do not paint the complete picture of where we go after death.
They are short and often it revolves around what happened on earth and about going back to earth.
To actually see where we go after death we would have to visit the places/dimensions where people live and spend their time.

That's in my own words but he says something to that effect, don't remember where exactly I read it.

More about life after death from Jürgen:
https://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Life_after_death_-_a_description_of_the_afterlife.html

[greybeard]

Jurgen Ziewe says that NDE do not paint the complete picture of where we go after death.
They are short and often it revolves around what happened on earth and about going back to earth.
To actually see where we go after death we would have to visit the places/dimensions where people live and spend their time.

That's in my own words but he says something to that effect, don't remember where exactly I read it.

More about life after death from Jürgen:
https://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Life_after_death_-_a_description_of_the_afterlife.html

Think thats correct Rich.
"In my Fathers house are many mansions" --Jesus quote. (Many realms)
The last thoughts pre death are important.
So you get what your expectations are.
But its temporary--once you have used up your credit--Karma then back you come.
Whatever desire you had that was unfulfilled will draw you back for another incarnation.
When enlightenment has occurred thats different--then no further reincarnation and full return to the energy of One happens. (Not that you really ever separated from That)
We are in duality, Maya till this happens.
Maya caries on through NDE and return to Earth.
Thats as best my understanding.

Chris

[thepainterdoug]

Chris, always like your take on things The Kelly NDE says were not here in school, no Karma, no right or wrong. We are here to experience this duality, this 3 d dense experience and its separation, and thats it. To breath and don't resist.

now real boots on the ground living, this seems impossible for me, unless in relatively blissful, prestige conditions. But when the s---t hits the fan, its then that it seems impossible to live and carry out. And this is true of so much enlightenment talk, that its all pretty doable when things are relatively ok.

How does one see , and accept an actual disaster or a true hurtful act by someone, and take it in with calm and understanding of these principals?

[Caliban]

Chris, always like your take on things The Kelly NDE says were not here in school, no Karma, no right or wrong. We are here to experience this duality, this 3 d dense experience and its separation, and thats it. To breath and don't resist.

now real boots on the ground living, this seems impossible for me, unless in relatively blissful, prestige conditions. But when the s---t hits the fan, its then that it seems impossible to live and carry out. And this is true of so much enlightenment talk, that its all pretty doable when things are relatively ok.

How does one see , and accept an actual disaster or a true hurtful act by someone, and take it in with calm and understanding of these principals?

Doug, I think the point is not to avoid/evade/suppress being hurt, being scared, being up-ended, but to have the understanding that neither the events happening nor the emotions being engendered by them -- are who I truly am.

In other words, don't confuse the character with the actor, the play with the Wider reality beyond the stage.

[RogeRio]

Well, as I said, I'd rather not open that ..


I Did it -- Soul, Conscienciuosness and Spirit concepts useful for a common sense (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?108517-Soul-Conscienciuosness-and-Spirit-concepts-useful-for-a-common-sense.&p=1312751#post1312751).

I ask for your agreement, but I was pretty sure you wouldn't disagree with my intention.

About "the three waves of volunteers" by Dolores Cannon, I'm probably the first wave. I still don't know what she wrote, but I came to the same conclusions througth other ways.

[greybeard]

Chris, always like your take on things The Kelly NDE says were not here in school, no Karma, no right or wrong. We are here to experience this duality, this 3 d dense experience and its separation, and thats it. To breath and don't resist.

now real boots on the ground living, this seems impossible for me, unless in relatively blissful, prestige conditions. But when the s---t hits the fan, its then that it seems impossible to live and carry out. And this is true of so much enlightenment talk, that its all pretty doable when things are relatively ok.

How does one see , and accept an actual disaster or a true hurtful act by someone, and take it in with calm and understanding of these principals?

One acts with compassion---the event has happened and cant be changed but the effects can be mitigated--its never about condoning harmful acts.
Love is not blind.
Its possible to be more effective when not directed by inner anger, frustration or any negative emotion.

Thanks for your post.
Chris