The Question of God and the Nature of God

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

What is God? That is one big nugget to grind down. Is there any question more profound? Everyone and anyone can answer it, depending on their point of view, but at the same time it can never really be answered.

I wonder what the different interpretations are, and what it might lead to if discussed? For my part, this is my take on the question.

The answer for me lies in the very first spiritual literature I came across, which has served me so very well all these years. These are the spiritual teachings and philosophies I personally believe in, hold dear, and try to live my life by.

These teachings were communicated from the spirit world itself (so from the horse's mouth), by the Native-American spirit guide Silver Birch, read by medium Maurice Barbanell. A series (https://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Silver-Birch-ebook/dp/B00LUIZEWK/ref=pd_sim_351_2/187-0533201-9184037?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00LUIZEWK&pd_rd_r=1f528502-6f16-4cdd-8953-1e8fdf1ed71b&pd_rd_w=2zPtu&pd_rd_wg=wWZiO&pf_rd_p=5c130f77-a5ef-4ffd-9db1-c29a354f52f9&pf_rd_r=SP8XA9HJ1B7DD9ZRACC8&psc=1&refRID=SP8XA9HJ1B7DD9ZRACC8) of books ( https://www.amazon.com/Silver-Birch-Book-Questions-Answers-ebook/dp/B00LUWWSLQ/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=silver+birch&qid=1566584875&s=books&sr=1-2) on Silver Birch were published in the early 20th century, in days long before 'AI' and the controversies of channelled material, and before spiritualism and the new age movement were co-opted. But why else do I trust them? Because they reflect logic, intelligence, and just common sense. And they resonate to the deepest level of the soul.

Silver Birch doesn't describe every concept perfectly and in its totality. If you read between the lines, you get a feeling that what's being said is worded, tailored very carefully for the ears of the time, as well as to the level of a relative spiritual novice. But it's still bursting with incredibly deep, and at the same time, simple wisdom. Silver Birch peals back the layers of spiritual reality and the great mystery that is life like no other I have ever found. If you want to cut through the crap, if you want to bypass all the human baggage that accompanies religion, faith, and ideology, if you want to go to the source, the spring waters of purest truth, if you will, this is surely it, and I cannot recommend it enough.

It feels as though I'm trumpeting Silver Birch, though this is more to share what this advanced spirit says of such big questions like God, or as he calls him/her/it, The Great Spirit, and spirit itself, and the nature of spirit. Because I feel these hugely important questions, on which so many differ, can and do have answers, human answers we can all at least appreciate and understand, even if not all of us will believe them.

Q. How would you describe God?


A. It is impossible to give you a complete picture. God is infinite. All language, concepts and pictures must be finite. The lesser cannot include the greater. You can obtain some idea of what the Great Spirit is like by looking at the universe. See how it is regulated by natural law, where provision has been made for every facet of life, even though these manifestations are multitudinous in their variety. Whether it be minutely small or majestically mighty all that lives, moves and breathes, all that exists, are controlled by natural law.

Nothing is outside the orbit of natural law. The seasons follow one another, the earth rotates on its axis, the tide ebbs and flows. Whatever seeds you plant, what will grow is contained within it; it will be true to its nature. Law reigns supreme. Every new discovery, whatever it may be, wherever it may be, is controlled by the same natural law. Nothing is forgotten, nothing is overlooked, nothing is neglected. What is this power responsible for it? It is infinite. It is not a magnified man, the Jehovah of the Old Testament. It is not a deity who is full of vengeance and sends plagues because of displeasure. It is not a capricious, wrathful deity. History and evolution show that the world slowly moves forward, upward, revealing that the power behind it is benevolent. So gradually you get this picture of infinite love and wisdom that rule all, that govern all, that direct all and are within all. And that I call the Great Spirit.

Q. What of spirit itself? What is spirit?


A. Spirit is perfect in its origin, spirit possesses intrinsically the creative forces of all life. Spirit is not subject to age, infirmity, wastage or to any of the defects that affect the physical body. The line of spirit evolution is from immaturity to maturity. Part of its evolution is accomplished through a physical body, which it has created for that purpose. Spirit is dominant, spirit is king, spirit is the ruler. But here comes the paradox. There is an interaction between spirit, mind and body, and the body restricts the activity of the spirit on earth because the spirit can express itself on earth only through the body at its disposal.


Q. So spirit needs contact with the world of matter in order to gain conscious individuality?


A. Yes. In order to gain consciousness it must incarnate through matter and have the experience of matter. It evolves from matter into spirit. That means that its association with a body of matter enables it to express itself as an individual working through the personality of the physical. Spirit becomes aware of itself after it has incarnated into matter.

Q. If so, is the Great Spirit gaining experience through us?


A. No. Your evolution cannot affect that which is already perfect.

Q. But we are all parts of the Great Spirit. Does not the evolution of a part affect the whole?


A. It only affects that part which is manifesting through you, which in itself is perfect, but is not perfect in its expression through each one of you. In itself spirit is perfect. It is the primary substance of the universe. It is the breath of life. In its expression through you it is imperfect because you are imperfect. As you evolve, more of the perfection can express itself through you. You are not evolving the spirit, but you are evolving the consciousness through which the spirit can express itself.
[For me, that resolves the enigma that a perfect God created an imperfect world. SB explained further in another question.]

Q. If the Great Spirit is perfect, and we are of the Great Spirit, how and why is humanity so imperfect?


A.There is perfection and imperfection, but imperfection contains within itself the seeds of perfection, for perfection comes from imperfection. Perfection does not come from perfection, but from imperfection. Life is evolution, it is progress, a striving upward, a development, unfolding, extension, reaching out.

The Great Spirit is the Law and the law is perfect. But that part of the Great Spirit that is expressed in your world is subject to the evolution of that world so far as its expression is concerned. Remember that your world is evolving, and these things are the signs of its evolution. Your world was born in fire and tempest and is gradually evolving towards perfection.

You cannot say that the Great Spirit is responsible for the beauty of the sunset and the sunrise, for the myriads of glittering stars in the firmament, for all the delightful songs of the birds, and then say the Great Spirit is not responsible for the storm and the lightning, the thunder and the rain. They are all part of the great law of the Great Spirit.

In that sense, you might argue that the Great Spirit is responsible for those who are depraved, for those who are so unenlightened that they render harm to their brothers in your world. But to each one of you there is given that amount of free will which, as you evolve, you learn to exercise. The higher you evolve in the spiritual scale, the greater can you exercise your free will. You are your own limitation but, because you are of the Great Spirit, you can conquer all the difficulties and obstacles in your world.

Man is the gardener of his own soul. The Great Spirit has provided him with all that is necessary for it to grow in wisdom, grace and beauty. The implements are there, he has but to use them wisely and well.

Q. But evil... If evil is due to man's misuse of free will, then why should the Great Spirit endow him with that free will which He knows would be misused?


A. How else could you have man fulfilling his destiny? Not all are evil, to use that word. There is a mixture in mankind. If you have to choose between a puppet, an automaton, and a being with potential powers of selfishness and saintliness, which would you prefer? Would you prefer man to participate in the infinite processes of creation? If so, he must have virtues and faults, for without the faults he could not have the virtues. Life is comparative. Man rises through struggle and difficulty; man attains, because attainment is not easy, but because it is hard, and that process refines the soul, purifies his nature and makes his character grow. Darkness is where light is not; evil is where good is not; ignorance is where knowledge is not. If all the world were good, it would cease to be good. If all the world had knowledge, it would cease to be knowledge. If all the world had light, it would cease to be light. You grow through comparative experiences. You achieve the heights because you have tasted the depths. That which is achieved without struggle is lightly prized. That which is achieved with struggle is counted as an endearing prize.
Of God, the Great Spirit, he summarizes:


The Great Spirit is not a person. The Great Spirit is not a deified individual. The Great Spirit is beyond personality. The Great Spirit is the epitome of law, love, wisdom, truth. It is the natural law of the universe; the creative force behind all life, whether registered in the plane of matter or in the plane of spirit.

The Great Spirit pervades all the universe, whether it is that tiny portion known to you or that larger part which, as yet, has not been revealed to earthly gaze. The Great Spirit fills all life. The Great Spirit is within all beings. The Great Spirit is within all laws. The Great Spirit is the Great Spirit. He is life. He is love. He is everything.

[Angels1981]

God is love 1 john 4v8.
God is love and that is infinite and unconditional. Love is stifled and ignored a lot here upon our planet and society through elite systems thinks that fear rules over love. Which I beg to differ. But Love is gentle, love is kind, it is not self seeking nor , it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes and always perserveres. 1 Corinthians 13:4–8a

Love is an energy with ample grace enough that you will make it through to letting go of anything unloving. Which is not holy. We are fed through the minds to be egotistical and use the brain as though it's us. The heart is to be filled with love. The heart penetrates love and love covers all sins too.
So when you ask what is GOD? God is this patient father waiting heart wrenching for us to turn to love through JEsus or Mohammed what ever belief route you prefer we come back to a palace of Gold in heaven.

Call it what you want but we are all love inside of us, we were born out of love as a baby we are love and innocent it's the upbringing and society that rots us with dread, fear, negativity and hatred and i'ts taught to not love, keep an upper stiff lip, don't forgive, Keep your emotions to your self, do not hug me, do not touch me, do I need to keep going on? okay I get that, some situations we have to be careful.

Love is about forgiving and letting go of the low energy that we have and having a light shiny personality and being proud to be kind, loving, generous and forgiving plus compassionate.

I don't know why churches are dead but the thing for me is being a walking example for others . We require this more nowadays than ever. So if you are loving that is good but don't feel ever that you are ashamed to be emotional or over come with joy or the hard ships.
We can believe in anything. GOD who is love wants you to be abundant and to receive but we don't know how sometimes.
I 'm not going to preach, but I say this one thing. Jesus said the same and I don't think Jesus is to be shunned to be honest. I think he was ridiculed for speaking out in society about being free in love not restraint in fear.
Please don't shun love. GOD the energy that I felt was deep true love but ten thousand fold that. We blame them for things when we shouldn't because if we had patience and belief and trust and asked for their help, he does and he is alive.

GOD is everything but he resides within each one of us so he can sample a lot of different situations that is why he says he is always near to us not wishing to harm us but to love us. We including myself become afraid of love because of being taught we will be cast into hell. Hell is manmade it's not being judged for we judge ourselves.
Love is unconditional so why should they judge you. You do it' with your tongue and mouth.
Love is comfort, blessings why should we frown if someone blesses you?

I bless my family and I see that God does deliver and it's all those nice things you get for you or OMG I never knew that could happen good, or that was a phew. Yeah please Credit God and Jesus for those. They do it' because they want to show you that they care and that they are real. Love is real. Please love yourself and others.

End of Preach lol. Sorry. I am so passionate about talking about love. peace to you all. Angel.

[Jayke]

Silver Birch sounds like he’s been studying some neo-pythagoreanism. :happythumbsup:

Who was it that said “everyone is born with a spirit, but the soul has to be earned”? It’s the difference between the ‘Ka’ (spirit) and ‘Ba’ (soul) in ancient Egyptian, and the transfiguration of the various aspects of the soul to be in union with god—or Ka-Ba-lah as it became known to the Jews—the path to embodying the virtues of god.

The hermetic texts describe The Great Spirit, or the great universal mind of god, as The Divine Pymander, or The Great Dragon.


http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/sta08.htm





POIMANDRES, THE VISION OF HERMES

Hermes, while wandering in a rocky and desolate place, gave himself over to meditation and prayer. Following the secret instructions of the Temple, he gradually freed his higher consciousness from the bondage of his bodily senses; and, thus released, his divine nature revealed to him the mysteries of the transcendental spheres. He beheld a figure, terrible and awe-inspiring. It was the Great Dragon, with wings stretching across the sky and light streaming in all directions from its body. (The Mysteries taught that the Universal Life was personified as a dragon.) The Great Dragon called Hermes by name, and asked him why he thus meditated upon the World Mystery. Terrified by the spectacle, Hermes prostrated himself before the Dragon, beseeching it to reveal its identity. The great creature answered that it was Poimandres, the Mind of the Universe, the Creative Intelligence, and the Absolute Emperor of all. (Schure identifies Poimandres as the god Osiris.) Hermes then besought Poimandres to disclose the nature of the universe and the constitution of the gods. The Dragon acquiesced, bidding Trismegistus hold its image in his mind.

Maximinus (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximinus_Thrax) is attributed a poem on the Pythagorean Y, the hard and narrow path of character development, a path of ascetic yoga, or union with the divine through virtue.


“The Pythagoric Letter two ways spread,
Shows the two paths in which Man’s life is led.
The right hand track to sacred Virtue tends,
Though steep and rough at first, in rest it ends;
The other broad and smooth, but from its Crown
On rocks the Traveller is tumbled down.
He who to Virtue by harsh toils aspires,
Subduing pains, worth and renown acquires;
But who seeks slothful luxury, and flies,
The labor of great acts, dishonored dies.”

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Geoffrey_Tory_Ypsilon.jpg

[Nasu]

I like the idea that God is love, but perhaps not our earthly definition of love. Unconditional love perhaps, but not loving as we would understand it. Most of life on this planet is either predator or prey or both, love as we understand it, is difficult to pair with that reality.

My own view is that we haven't the intellectual abilities to truly understand God. Much as an ant can’t hope to understand the world of man or their place in our homes or cities, so I think we in turn can’t hope to understand our place in creation on this planet, let alone this galaxy, let alone this universe with countless galaxies floating about it. Then of course there is the multiverse to consider..

In my opinion, the mysteries of our life, such as OBE’s, ghosts and people with abnormal abilities such as healing or clairvoyance for example, are attempted to be answered by the world’s various religions. I am of the opinion that all the religions hold some part of the truth but none holds all the truth.

This universe is truly vast. The distances between galaxies is greater than the size of each galaxy. If there is one overseeing entity responsible for all it’s creation then she / he / it has a great deal on their plate, never mind our short lives and minuscule part to play within it all.

The closest thing that makes any sense to my mind and experience, limited as it is, is that God is akin to a scientist. She / he / it is no doubt fascinated by their creation / experiments and is interested to see how it all plays out, warts and all, suffering and all, evolution and devolution, life and death, creation and destruction, form and formlessness, the bigger picture if you like. But is a watcher rather than an influencer.

Saying that though, with all the intrinsic inequalities, hardships and suffering we see in every creature’s life on this planet, including our own species, love is a hard word to pin on her / him / it. IMHO….x…. N

[Justplain]

I agree with you, Nasu, the Great Spirit, or Prime Creator, or the true God, is really well beyond our comprehension. In Michael Newton's research some of his subjects with 'high advancement' in human terms discussed how they caught glimpses of what is in store for human souls once they evolve beyond the human realm (where the soul is evolved higher so it no longer needs human experiences), and they described an energy and consciousness that was overwhelming, a complexity beyond comprehension, yet blazing with love. We have a long way to go folks, but it sounds like the trip is well worth what's at the destination.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I remember that Justplain. Many of those subjects called it 'the presence'. What God is cannot be grasped by human consciousness, it's way beyond that. But what it is not is quite plain. It's not an entity, a being, a consciousness, in the same way that we are those things. Man constantly tries to anthropomorphise God, and that's a mistake. God simply is, like 'the Force' in Star Wars simply is, but infinite awareness mixed in with that, and infinite love. Almost every question I ever had or understanding I ever grappled with was answered quite simply by Silver Birch. The model of 'how things are' that he constructs in the teachings ties everything together just perfectly.


Silver Birch sounds like he’s been studying some neo-pythagoreanism. :happythumbsup:

Who was it that said “everyone is born with a spirit, but the soul has to be earned”? It’s the difference between the ‘Ka’ (spirit) and ‘Ba’ (soul) in ancient Egyptian, and the transfiguration of the various aspects of the soul to be in union with god—or Ka-Ba-lah as it became known to the Jews—the path to embodying the virtues of god.
[/B]

The thing is, Silver Birch speaks entirely without religious cadences - such are all man made, written by man, elevated by man, catechized by man, but man is a distorted creature so everything he does, says, and believes in is a distortion.

The idea of one must 'earn' a soul is just wrong. You are a soul. The soul is your consciousness. The spirit is that particle of divine light, the God spark, that shines through it. Thus you are one, and have the other. We are souls with spirits. That's the difference. One is already perfect (the spirit), but it shines through an imperfect lens that is the human consciousness (the soul). We are imperfection striving for perfection. That's the goal, to polish that lens, constantly, over life times, so that more of the light and the love and the truth of God shines through.

[Wind]

We are imperfection striving for perfection. That's the goal, to polish that lens, constantly, over life times, so that more of the light and the love and the truth of God shines through.

That's a very beautiful way of saying the truth.

[Jayke]

Silver Birch sounds like he’s been studying some neo-pythagoreanism. :happythumbsup:

Who was it that said “everyone is born with a spirit, but the soul has to be earned”? It’s the difference between the ‘Ka’ (spirit) and ‘Ba’ (soul) in ancient Egyptian, and the transfiguration of the various aspects of the soul to be in union with god—or Ka-Ba-lah as it became known to the Jews—the path to embodying the virtues of god.
[/B]

The thing is, Silver Birch speaks entirely without religious cadences - such are all man made, written by man, elevated by man, catechized by man, but man is a distorted creature so everything he does, says, and believes in is a distortion.

The idea of one must 'earn' a soul is just wrong. You are a soul. The soul is your consciousness. The spirit is that particle of divine light, the God spark, that shines through it. Thus you are one, and have the other. We are souls with spirits. That's the difference. One is already perfect (the spirit), but it shines through an imperfect lens that is the human consciousness (the soul). We are imperfection striving for perfection. That's the goal, to polish that lens, constantly, over life times, so that more of the light and the love and the truth of God shines through.

Gurdjieff! Pretty sure it was Gurdjieff who said that. He’s not wrong. I understand what he means at least, so does Silver Birch. In Silver Birchs’ own words from your OP:


”Man is the gardener of his own soul. The Great Spirit has provided him with all that is necessary for it to grow in wisdom, grace and beauty. The implements are there, he has but to use them wisely and well”.

To earn a soul that isn’t a barren wilderness, one has to master the tools of the spirit and cultivate the soul to its full potential and majesty. So yes, the soul does have to be earnt through one’s effort and commitment to Gods virtues. Not that it isn’t their if you don’t cultivate it, but it can become dulled to a low ember without the cultivation practice. Which isn’t an easy task when the animal passions and the lenses of logic obscure the task at hand. Only the avatars; Pythagoras, Jesus, Buddha, Krishna etc have truly achieved total embodied soul status. Hence the imperfections of man are in such disarray across the world right now, causing so much destruction and chaos.

If those setting fire to the Amazon rainforest, for instance, had truly cultivated their soul to a high level, would they still be brazen enough to light the flame? or are they simply acting through the spirited animal passions of greed, envy, lust etc.

What Gurdjieff alludes to is spirit = soul in its imperfected state. So yes, everyone has a soul, but it requires cultivation before the soul bares fruits of ‘the Great Spirit’, rather than the impulsive ‘volitional’ spirits of the flesh-and-blood aspects of man (the imperfected lens).

I know it’s just playing around with semantics, but there are infinite subjective paths that lead to universal truth. None of them are wrong if they lead to the same wisdom, just different paths of the Jedi.:flower:

[greybeard]

Seems to depend on what you listen to.
Advaita is clear--You are Brahman--"One without a second"
That comes from ancient Sanskrit teaching--that language written is one o the most advanced complex of all times.
In brief you are complete,eternal the one soul.
Self improvement fine but nothing to do with spiritual.
One suggestion from Ramana Maharshi--"Find out who/what you are and all questions disappear"
We are here to experience--no other reason. You cant improve perfection--thats what you are in your natural state.
We are here in a grand illusion called Maya.
Enlightenment is the removal of ignorance-the ignorance being that you think you are an individual in need of improvement.
One the true Self is revealed thats job done no further reincarnation.
Thats called Self realization.
Happening for many these days as the interviews on this site show.
Buddha at the gas pump
https://batgap.com/




Chris

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Good post Jayke, thanks for the clarification. And you're right, so much confusion arises from pesky semantics. It's a common struggle in this vast subject, to convey these higher concepts under the constraints of human language.

We all have/are souls, but there's an upward climb in order to refine it. In so doing, we attain more and more understanding, awareness, wisdom. Eventually, I believe we gain more influence in the 'grand scheme of things'. From teacher, or a healer, to being a spirit guide. And ultimately, to partake and assist in the process of creation itself. I don't believe it's true that Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, etc, are the only avatars. They are just the select ones whose special mission it was to come to earth to spread their message. The higher spheres don't belong only to them, but all the other advanced souls and masters, who have each won their spiritual 'rank', for want of a better word, from centuries (more like eons) of toil and service. That's where we all eventually aim to end up one day. And we have all eternity to try :)

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

The stuff of which we're made - spirit - is perfect, but the form that it takes - the individual soul - is not. Thus the journey we must take.

For what it's worth, this is SB's take on enlightenment, what lies beyond, and the climbing of the spiritual ladder:


A. The ultimate is not Nirvana. All spiritual progress is towards increasing individuality. You do not become less of an individual, you become more of an individual. You develop latent gifts, you acquire greater knowledge, your character becomes stronger, more of the divine is exhibited through you. The Great Spirit is infinite and so there is an infinite development to be achieved. Perfection is never attained, there is a constant striving towards it. You do not ever lose yourself. What you succeed in doing is finding yourself.

Q. Is it possible to describe the state we are supposed to reach?


A. No, because you get to conditions and spheres that are beyond language. They consist of consciousness and awareness. This is something you will not understand until you attain it. You do not lose your individuality in a sea of greater consciousness, but the depth of the ocean becomes included in your consciousness.

That maybe different to your understanding Chris, but no worries, nothing wrong with differing :)

[Peter UK]

The question of the nature of God not unnaturally tends to be defined in the closest terms to our human experience. With that in mind we will, inevitably I think, incorporate the highest human virtues and values such as love, empathy, compassion and inclusiveness. The opposites of these appear for the most part to threaten our survival as a species.

Whether one accepts the argument, or not, that the human genome is an experiment in DNA manipulation, as an idea at least, it does seem to suggest at least one compelling argument (there are other arguments of course that are equally not compelling) that a species has to define themselves as the best that is witnessed in humanity in terms of loving awareness in order to evolve.

Of course all this is enacted out in our quadrant of the universe which may be a localised awareness understood in terms of either our planet, or our solar system, or our galaxy or several galaxies depending on where you choose to stop defining things in terms of localised.

When people talk about God I doubt if they are talking in local terms at all. God spontaneously means everything by default. With the notion of everything, whether realised or not, the concept of infinity is introduced.

What infinity is and whether our localised description in terms of human values is broad enough to encompass it I don't know but I suspect in part some of it must. Equally in terms of infinite consciousness and awareness I don't know what would be considered the additional qualities or components either.

Infinity seems to be the eternal unfathomable mystery.

:)

[greybeard]

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/anthropomorphic
Anthropomorphic
Ascribing human form or attributes to a thing or a being not human, as to a deity.
"God" is not human.
Pure Divine love is an energy not an attribute
We seem to want a creator that resembles human beings.
The formless became form---it condensed into matter--all of it without exception--there is no where that God is not.
The Self realized in India--say they are the totality all of it.
Sages of today say similar but not in such bold terms--they say there is nothing but consciousness--seamless God--how can you improve or modify the eternal--which we are.

Not my opinion or thought but the direct experience of every non-duality--enlightened being I have ever read.
They all say all concepts must go--you are none of that.
Spirit--soul-god are all human concepts--but as best the unrealized can manage.
This is why I accept what those with direct experience relate--share.
One member has this experience ongoing and will answer questions.
Here is the link
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43027-Enlightenment-A-direct-succinct-account-of-what-occurs...&p=456904&viewfull=1#post456904

[Iyakum]

The nature of God, that's a good question if we leave all religions out. what is left then? In my opinion, there are two fundamental powers in the universe. One of the powers is the positive, the other the negative power. You can also describe it differently, good or bad. However both are called is irrelevant, because both are powers that hold the universe in the scale. All religions are not really able to describe God. who is able to do that? I do not think that our universe is infinite, everything has an end, only what comes behind it? Suppose one day we have progressed to the limit of our universe to find and find it ... what then? What lies behind the border? Another universe, truth, love, malice, or both, or a space an empty space, I do not think God is there, waiting for us or others to find him.

My personal opinion is that we are not able to describe the nature of God. All religions can not, they interpret what God could be. Only recently I have thought, the universe is quite large and there are certainly not only humans as living beings, there are also other planets that are inhabited, let's suppose there are living things on our planet like us humans also believe in a higher being ... what then? Then I imagined I would take the place of God, what would I see, experience, hear, how many prayers would reach me daily, now we take only our earth and say of the 7.5 billion people would be 5 billion believe in God. Ok, then I asked myself how many times a day do I say oh my god, or how many times a day do I ask God for help, how many times do I pray to God, how many times do I implore God for help? God really has a lot to do, or do not you think so? I do not think he has boredom, ...


We are energy beings, when we give birth to children, we pass our energy on to our children, that is my answer to the question of the nature of God, who knows maybe I will find an answer when I am older and wiser than today. But I do not think that I and I mean that I am personally in a position to find an answer. There are mysteries we will never find an answer to, and maybe that's just fine ...

Sorry, my english is terrible I know it

[Ernie Nemeth]

It is the nature of god that is at issue.

There doesn't seem to be any archetype that describes the attributes of an ultimate God. I believe a lot of that has to do with our own distorted views of reality. The nature of god is beyond our understanding at this time. The best that can be hoped for is personal mystical experiences that point in an ambiguous manner towards the notion of the possibility of god.

Much of that seems to be the refusal of the individual to accept the awesome potential of their own true nature...

It is often the expression of that very power, the awesome power of self, that has the most accurate assessment about the nature of god.

[Iyakum]

So far I was afraid to write in the forum but after your contribution I had to answer, so a big thank you to ...@Ernie Nemeth

Some time ago I was ill and was often in the hospital and then in therapy for six months. I had severe depression and hardly spoke to anyone. I sat most of the time in the big hall by the window and looked into nature. My only thought I ever had was, I have to climb a mountain, I have to climb to the top of a mountain. That's the only thing that can help me. That's the only thing that can give me healing.

After about four months in which I asked again and again to bring me to a mountain, they responded to my request. It was not a very high mountain, but it served its purpose. I went up to the summit and then something happened that I've never experienced before. I turned around and looked straight ahead, I felt, felt it so strongly that a nearly black cloud was floating out of my forehead, it was so relieving. I can not really describe the feeling, as I said a black cloud that looked the same as a cloud, I saw it with my inner eye the cloud was not big about 10-12cm x 7-8cm. At that very moment, the thought came to me. what would have happened if I had purposefully sent this cloud to something? That was self-healing, if I had used my gifts properly all the time ... if I had listened to my feelings on them, today I would be much more developed than before the therapy.

After healing, I left the therapy and worked as far as I could with the gifts given to me. One day my wife left me, she disappeared for three months. When she came back she told me that she has a new boyfriend. Of course, I was very upset about it and asked her to talk to me about it. While she told me everything, I sat there listening carefully. She described to me her new friend as closely as possible, his name, what he looked like, where he lived, what he worked for, what his political thinking was. We sat in a restaurant and she ate something while I just drank coffee. Then she got a sms from her new boyfriend who wrote that he loved her and missed her. He is traveling by motorcycle and the sun is shining and he would like it if she were with him now. The day was very warm and the sun was shining everywhere, no rain or clouds.

She then replied via sms and wrote that she is sitting with her husband in a restaurant and she eats and drinks something. He then wrote back to her that he wants to use the time as long as it is light and wants to continue to ride a motorcycle. At that moment, I was filled with grief, annoyed because I did not know what I did that she wanted to leave me. So I imagined her new boyfriend riding his motorbike on the road and enjoying the nice weather.

It happened by itself, for the first time I used my gifts. I did not bother, it was like just sending out my thoughts. I imagined that he sits on his bike and drives. I sent him black clouds, rainstorms, lightning. The only thing I did not send him was that he had an accident, I did not want that, it did not even come to my mind. It was not long before about 20-30 minutes when her new friend called her. I told my wife to put her on loudspeakers I want to listen. He told her that he drove in the street and he had to stop because it suddenly started to rain. Rain, clouds and lightning, that was so strange around the clouds everywhere the sun shines and it does not rain only with him, he got scared and stopped.


I got scared after that, even though I knew nobody knew it. Nevertheless, one day I repeated it without endangering anyone. Just to see if I'm really capable of doing that. Now I can also grasp thoughts, I do not mean mindsteps, but really capture thoughts. That depends on how much they are sent out.

I also think that I am in a position to direct my gifts to the positive, but I lack the experience and someone who helps me with this. I firmly believe that we can do a lot of good with gifts. This is part of the nature of God, thanks to your contribution, I see much clearer and I try to help not to hurt.

[Peter UK]

We are energy beings, when we give birth to children, we pass our energy on to our children, that is my answer to the question of the nature of God, who knows maybe I will find an answer when I am older and wiser than today. But I do not think that I and I mean that I am personally in a position to find an answer. There are mysteries we will never find an answer to, and maybe that's just fine ...

Sorry, my english is terrible I know it

Your english looks fine to me.

:)

[petra]

We are energy beings, when we give birth to children, we pass our energy on to our children, that is my answer to the question of the nature of God, who knows maybe I will find an answer when I am older and wiser than today. But I do not think that I and I mean that I am personally in a position to find an answer. There are mysteries we will never find an answer to, and maybe that's just fine ...

Sorry, my english is terrible I know it

Your english looks fine to me.

:)

Looks fine to me too!
I question what God would think of us attempting to define Him, and I imagine he must have a sense of humor. I mean, you're trying to use words to define something that's essentially "ineffable"... that's funny :)

God is Love gets on my nerves because it's breaking our language :P

For me there's no question of God - that's by choice. I sure did question God's nature though! I asked myself not if god was good or evil, but would I trust God to choose good, instead of evil. That helped me choose to trust God... sorry if that sounds naive. I choose to, but at the same time I also have to.

EDIT: For the nature of God, the best I have is "God is Everything, God is Everywhere" (note: And I think God would agree with me!)

[Peter UK]

For the nature of God, the best I have is "God is Everything, God is Everywhere"



Actually that's more profound than it looks on paper.

If someone asks is THIS God? You can say yes.

If they then ask is THAT God? You can also say yes.

If they then ask Can you tell me what isn't God?

You can look at them with a blank stare as though they have tried to code something into the computer and it's not accepted because of an error in the programme.

:)

[petra]

For the nature of God, the best I have is "God is Everything, God is Everywhere"



Actually that's more profound than it looks on paper.

If someone asks is THIS God? You can say yes.

If they then ask is THAT God? You can also say yes.

If they then ask Can you tell me what isn't God?

You can look at them with a blank stare as though they have tried to code something into the computer and it's not accepted because of an error in the programme.

:)

Hah ha ha ha ha!!
Come to think of it, I think I WAS aiming to "break" something... I aimed to break the thing in my head which keeps asking me questions that I don't have the answer to! :) PS: Didn't work

I got that answer from my mother. My thoughts were telling me to ask a particular friend (who's definition was much more technical), but then another set of thoughts said "Ask your mother" and that's what she said - word for word.

[greybeard]

The totality --all of it.
Chris

[Peter UK]

For the nature of God, the best I have is "God is Everything, God is Everywhere"



Actually that's more profound than it looks on paper.

If someone asks is THIS God? You can say yes.

If they then ask is THAT God? You can also say yes.

If they then ask Can you tell me what isn't God?

You can look at them with a blank stare as though they have tried to code something into the computer and it's not accepted because of an error in the programme.

:)

Hah ha ha ha ha!!
Come to think of it, I think I WAS aiming to "break" something... I aimed to break the thing in my head which keeps asking me questions that I don't have the answer to! :) PS: Didn't work

I got that answer from my mother. My thoughts were telling me to ask a particular friend (who's definition was much more technical), but then another set of thoughts said "Ask your mother" and that's what she said - word for word.

Yes, sometimes it's just about home cookin', it helps preserve the balance.

:)

[Iyakum]

@petra,
Thank you for your clear words, your answer to the question of the nature of God. I still smile about your answer very well formulated. But when I think of today and of my childhood, there is still the threshold that there are few people who really say what they think. You are one of those who is not afraid to question God. A few weeks ago I had a thought, I asked myself a question. What if I asked God to vacate his place? What if I or another person had the chance to face God? What then, would I ask him questions, as an example about us humans, the suffering, the wars, why he watches and does not intervene? would I dare ask him such questions? The more I thought about it, the more absurd was the thought of asking God. I would not ask him any questions, I would tell him it's enough, you can go. Get on your way to another universe, you've sat on the throne long enough now, free the place. For me or others who think like me. It is quite simple if you are omnipotent, leave your powers, your power to someone else.

I also think that God has a sense of humor, even a very big one. He seems to enjoy it when we puzzle who or what he is. When the earth was formed and she was still quite young, there were already living beings at the time. Then at some point other creatures came to it, but it took a long time before the first humans came down from the trees. They were curious to explore their surroundings, it took a long time for humans to develop a language until they developed an imagination. I do not believe that they believed in God before, so we could not accept the question of God through our belief in an almighty being that we have created. Thus, God must have existed before.

I do not believe in a particular religion, I am Christian and Protestant, but that means absolutely nothing. But when I think of all the different religions, how many there are and how they came into being, I ask myself where the origin of all this is. As an example, every story, every legend and myth has an origin and therefore a true core. And so it is with the nature of God. Sometime, somehow, somewhere the nature of God has begun. But the more we think about it, the more we move away in search of an answer.

Ok, at the end, a question for those who choose to answer my post. What would you do ? If you get the chance for meeting God ?

[greybeard]

This video covers various perceptions of God --types of religions--God centred ---Self inquire approach.
Done with insight and humour

Is Advaita true? Self-centered vs God-centered ~ Swami Sarvapriyananda ~ VedantaZenOneness


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJUByfcjPB4

[petra]

Ok, at the end, a question for those who choose to answer my post. What would you do ? If you get the chance for meeting God ?

That'd be a cool topic for a posting!

I feel like I've already "met" God in a way, but try to answer anyway. What happened when I "met God" ?

I felt like I met God, and when it happened I facepalmed for about 5 minutes straight, because I was so embarrassed.
My Thoughts: So... is there anything you'd like to say to God?
Me: No (folds arms). Go away (lol)

[greybeard]

Depends on your concept of God.
For me God is everything--there is no where God is not.
The flowers the animals-people--you name it.
If your belief is that God is in the heavens then that is different.
Christ said Heaven is within.
Chris

[johnf]

Depends on your concept of God.
For me God is everything--there is no where God is not.
The flowers the animals-people--you name it.
If your belief is that God is in the heavens then that is different.
Christ said Heaven is within.
Chris


You have two posts that kind of sum up my basic present conclusion, that in essence "God" is everything, all that is. It is impossible to ponder on this idea for long before one gets to one's personal exceptions, wait not : and in this space the tangle of emotions we tend to label ego fills in the most immediate unforgiven person, place thing, or event. I think many in this forum can imagine reality as a hologram that starts as pure conciousness, and accrues layers of form, and increasing opposing energy till we have matter, planetary systems and on at least some of those life forms. In my own experiences that felt like a meeting with the source, there is a moment where that pure awareness flows out of a undefined center that encompasses the body, and meets the forms out side of my body, and at the moment those forms disappear, and somehow the seeds of all those things i recently found to be so real still exists as part of that essence, or emanation. The word love is used a lot in this thread, and I think that love is the first and last action of awareness. And it is an emanation, which is more basic than any identity or subsequent object of any identity.


John

[Cara]

Hafiz has some remarkable poems that hint at the nature of god. Here is one:


God’s Bucket

If this world
Was not held in God’s bucket

How could an ocean stand upside down
On its head and never lose a drop?

If your life was not contained in God’s cup

How could you be so brave and laugh,
Dance in the face of death?

Hafiz,
There is a private chamber in the soul
That knows a great secret

Of which no tongue can speak.

Your existence my dear, O love my dear,
Has been sealed and marked

“Too sacred,” “too sacred,” by the Beloved—
To ever end!

Indeed God
Has written a thousand promises
All over your heart

That say,
Life, life, life,
Is far too sacred to
Ever end.

[greybeard]

I honestly dont think it matters what you believe God to be,what religion you belong to.
God believes in you.
Chris
Ps all these beliefs meet in Divine Love, well most of them.

[Robert deTree]

Thank you Star Mariner for starting this thread and for sharing those wise human words. There seems to be less over bearing human-ness in these words than in many teachers words ! Silver Birch's first line seems to hit at the core of the issue and overall he seems to be in line with one Dude.

You maybe interested in an ETs (Dude's) opinion on God here (Episode 4-6 of Dude's Maxims) :
https://anchor.fm/bright-garlick/episodes/Episode-4--God-Part-1-e544vn
https://anchor.fm/bright-garlick/episodes/Episode-5--God-Part-2-e5454k
https://anchor.fm/bright-garlick/episodes/Episode-6--God-Part-3-e545kh

[Iloveyou]

One of the essential truths I‘ve come to accept is that in anything we may encounter - from the most mundane daily-life actions to the big and complex concepts - there‘s a fake version and a true version of everything. I‘ve come across that here on PA first (via Jay Weidner).

There‘s the timeless true god/goddess, source of life, pure love who knows no negation, no doubt, no relativism. And there‘s the fake ancient cruel and judging, condemning god(s) - originating from where? when? - the master(s) who demand obedience above all and who the monotheistic religions are based on.

It‘s not always easy to differentiate both as often the fake version is so close to the true one and they almost overlap. Almost.

I was impressed with the following presentation of Bible quotes. They can be read both ways.

True: A genuine loving mother who knows her child’s every breath and impulse from the first moment while knowing and respecting the child as a sovereign and all powerful soul at the same time. A mother who would give her life for her child anytime.

Fake: An all monitoring, dominating authority who rules by manipulation, empty promises, by fear, by subtle threats and ‚conditional love‘. Who demands sacrifice.

FCb0H9CaBB8

[Fredenit]

God seems like different things to different people and to different races of beings in the Universe, but the essential experience that ignites the desire for God, the awareness of God and the relationship with God is the same everywhere. This religious impulse, the impulse towards union with God, is universal. Though it seems remarkably absent in some cultures and aberrantly expressed in others, the impulse is the same. What God is must be expressed in terms of your range of experience and your capacity for experience. In the Universe, God is so total and complete that any definition would always falter and fail.

Therefore, let us say that God is the experience of total relationship. You can experience this for a moment here and there and for longer periods should you prepare in The Way of the Great Spirit. This is an experience which can both be translated from one world to another and shared and demonstrated from one being to another, bypassing and transcending all divergences of race, culture, temperament and environment. This is God. God for you is God in action. God for you is an experience that is unlike any other experience in life, yet this experience gives meaning to all of your other experiences.

In the Universe, God is complete. In your world, God is a God of your world, a God of your race, a God of your history, a God of your temperament, a God of your fears and aspirations, a God of your great heroes, a God of your great tragedies, a God that is related to your tribe and your time. But in the Universe, God is so much greater, so complete—beyond the definitions of any race, beyond the history of any race, beyond the temperament, fears and aspirations of any race, beyond the grasp of any individual or collective philosophy. And yet, you find God in a pure impulse, in a timeless moment of recognition, in the desire to act beyond the sphere of your own personal interests and motives, in the recognition of another, in the motive to give, in the inexplicable experience of affinity. These are translatable. This is God in action. For you, this is God.

We must think of God now in the Universe—not a human God, not a God of your written history, not a God of your trials and tribulations, but a God for all time, for all races, for all dimensions, for those who are primitive and for those who are advanced, for those who think like you and for those who think so differently, for those who believe and for those for whom belief is inexplicable. This is God in the Universe. And this is where you must begin.

To believe in the God of the Universe is too great an attempt, because you will realize that your race is small and the Universe is great. Here you will be focusing on a God not of your world and of your time but a God of all worlds and all times. What kind of theology or philosophy can embody a God of this magnitude? What kind of human speculation and human ethics can encompass a God so complete as this?

Yet your theology of God must be the theology of God’s work in this world. And if it is true, accurate and beneficial, it must focus on the experience of the Great Spirit. The Great Spirit is the beginning of religion. The Great Spirit is the completion of religion. The Great Spirit is the evidence of God and the evidence that you are a part of a greater life beyond the limits of your time, beyond the boundaries of your race and beyond the confines of your present intellectual ability. Here there is no creation story. There are no heroes. There is no end of time. There is only the total experience of relationship, which is the experience of the Great Spirit and the experience of God.

What is a human religion without a creation story, without a hero to worship and without a culmination of human experience? What human religion can focus on a God of this magnitude, whose sole interest is not your world alone, whose sole concern is not your daily experience, whose awareness is so complete and whose beneficence blesses those who are so unlike you? What then is the model for human behavior? What is the basis for ethics or morality in a God of the Universe? For this you must venture beyond a childhood religion and a child’s needs. You must venture beyond the need only for rules and regulations and fantastic stories that are barely believable. You must enter into the experience and the Mystery of life, which is the doorway to God, which is at the very heart of your life and contains the very purpose for your coming here that is unique to you but which you share with all life.

Spirituality in the Universe, there are no heroes. There is no creation story. And there is no culminating experience to bring an end to the difficulties of corporeal life. So, what is religion without these things? These things are tribal in nature. And you are not alone in the Universe in wanting them, in establishing them and in holding to them. Everywhere where religion has taken root and has found expression, races have based their practices and their understanding on their own time, their own history and their own temperament. But beyond this is the experience of God. Beyond this is pure spirituality. This is what you must seek now, for human religion can never embody a God of the Universe. So inexplicable this is because it transcends your requirements for the Divine. Therefore, you must find another way, a more mature way, a more complete approach, a true preparation.

In the Universe, those who have advanced have realized the nature and purpose of God in their respective worlds, but their understanding has gone beyond the comprehension of God’s Will in specific matters, even beyond the concern for the well-being and survival of their race. They have gone beyond these concerns to a greater spirituality, a Spirituality in the Universe—a spirituality of all time and all worlds, a spirituality that is mysterious, that is not defined and embodied in rituals, ideals, beliefs, historical accounts or fantastic images, a spirituality that can be completely translated from one being to another with words or gestures, or without words or gestures.

Spirituality in the Universe, is a spirituality of greater experience, greater perception and greater abilities. In the Universe, you are not saved. You are only developing. In the Universe, you are not condemned. You are only developing. In the Universe, there is no heaven. There is only further involvement and a greater capacity for relationship. In the Universe, there are no local gods and demons fighting spiritual warfare. In the Universe, there are those who know and those who do not know. From their experience come the great difficulties that are posed in life everywhere.


There is so much more to this thread than meets the eye, than meets the mind and even Human experience in its meagre existence.

I have reported this from memory, to the best of my experience. There are some words that are changed to give a clearer captivation. The words Great Spirit have replaced the word Knowledge, and the word Universe has replaced The Greater Community.

And of cause, there is much more to read of this topic, and if you feel inclined, then follow this link to discover the Spirituality of the Greater Community.

https://www.newmessage.org/the-message/volume-2/greater-community-spirituality/what-is-god-3[/URL]

[greybeard]

I think its great that there is so much discussion as to the various questions as to the nature of God.
All I can say is "I make plans and God laughs"
Chris

[East Sun]

the most absurd thing about our existence is our nakedness. We are embarrassed by our nakedness. And that in itself should not be normal to our existence as humans. To me that indicates that we are not what we were intended to be. Or were intended for something else and were rejected and thrown aside.

We need to get our act together or we will perish.

[East Sun]

Forget about religions who have all thro time controlled the masses of us humans. Enough all ready, we are on to you at last,


!

[Words of Joy]

FCb0H9CaBB8

That is beautiful. Thank you for that. I recognize that in full.

Reading the comments in this topic there are a couple of things that come to mind. Regarding the question why God is not stepping in, while there's so much suffering, war, etc. Question is whether we're able to discern whether God is stepping in or not. I'm experiencing he's doing a lot of movement in our reality directly and indirectly. Though I also understand not everyone is able to see that. The reason one would or would not be able to observe this depends on the persons answer to the question near the end of the above video:"My question is..... will you be my child?". Jesus gave the example on how to be a child of God. He asked Peter "Peter, do you love me?" three times. Peter replied: "You know I do". Then Jesus said: "Follow me!" This was intended for anyone looking to be a child of God. Jesus gave all the clues. Though if one doesn't read and try to understand the clues, then following Him in being a child of God is impossible.

Once a person does decide to follow Jesus in becoming/being a child by taking the steps to enter as provided by Jesus, it will have as a result that the "doubt" that an individual might have had will be removed. This is symbolized by the veil that ripped after the crucifixion of Jesus. It symbolizes, that through Jesus death on the cross, we're enabled to establish the communication line with God. Jesus is the only way. Having personally taken the steps Jesus left behind, I experience the lifting of the veil, the reestablishment of communication with God. This ended my doubts.

I do understand the difficulties in trying to connect with God in one's own way and not succeeding. There is a guide for it in the New testament and it needs to be followed. Books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the best start. It's the way God chose it to be. If one doesn't follow those steps and years of trying on it's own way pass by, then at some point one might think there is no God. Even might get very frustrated by it. And even might look for alternatives. Like for example in the video on Advaita Vedanta, where the person explaining says "Doubt is a problem with God centered religion.". I don't have doubt. Many others don't have doubt. There are many with direct Divine experiences. Though not everyone has this experience. Not even all Christians. I get that too. Though to then look at oneself as the center, will actually keep you away from connecting from what made our souls. We didn't create our own souls. Yes, we are, so we are a certainty. I agree with that aspect of the philosophy and yes our soul is eternal, though while we are in this reality we're still subject to the duality. We can try to escape duality by meditation, by trying to be only love, but if one doesn't become a child of God, then going into the Heavenly realm is out of the question. Also if one fails to understand Gods rules, to make a person loving to His standards for the benefit of all, then one is bound to be disciplined through Gods righteous way of upholding his rules.

When Jesus spoke "follow me", he meant it in regard to his works and the way he went about life: freeing people from spiritual possession, healing people, bringing people back from death, confronting people that are hurting and misleading others. True children of God are called to do the same. THAT is the way that Jesus called to follow. And that is how children of God are recognized. They do good works and miracles happen through their relationship with God, Jesus and the holy Spirit. I'm very careful with who I follow. I always keep this advise from Jesus in my mind: "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them." The "Ferocious Wolf" might sound harsh, but think of the effect it will have if someone misguides a person and the missing of ascension is the result. Then there's a potential of many more lives with possible elements of suffering.

The question I ask myself when I look at so called self-realized individuals: "Is the person doing good works? Is he performing miracles to remove suffering from peoples lives? Is he humble? Does he know and speak of God and His loving ways?" If not, then I know it's not an advanced child of God. I'd like to be clear about this. For most children of God it takes time to learn how to work with the Spirit to perform miracles. I'm not there yet, I have personal hurdles to take, as any child of God in it's own situation. But there are many advanced children of God working with the Spirit performing miracles. Only speaking in theories for me has little value. That's also what being a child of God distinguishes from many other religions or philosophies: The focus is on not only showing love, but also taking action. Action when people are suffering, when people are hurting, when people are sick etc. The focus is on caring for others through actions. Self-realization is not the goal, though will be a result. As a child of God, God will see to that. As God wants the very best for His children, as His children want the best for people around them and people in need. When a person has other people worshipping him, touching or kissing feet, then for me that is a clear sign, the person has not reached enlightenment as I know it. And it definitely is not the "follow me" Jesus intended.

The person in the Advaita Vedanta video mentions:"You are God and God is you", I'd like to ask him:"Where's the fruit of that? Could you produce more?" If what he claims is true, then why not create an extra soul or two? Or create a universe? In this reality under current circumstances we can't do that yet. We are limited in what we can do. (Not without reason. :) ) Becoming a child of God will stretch the possibilities. And after the body is glorified/evolved as a child of God, then creating a universe will be an option. Though one will have more learning to do. This spiritual evolution is through Gods approval. Never without.

Regarding the question why some Christians don't experience God: Sometimes reading, praying daily and accepting Jesus as Savior isn't sufficient. This is because it is about the choice of the heart. One has to understand the steps, take and live the steps and be fullhearted about it. Not everyone feels 100% about making that commitment. Sometimes a person just wants to live their own life. Sometimes a person is just not fully aware of what it takes to become a child of God. But if one wants to become a child of God, one can become a child of God. By reading what Jesus had to say and understanding with their heart and following, also inviting the holy Spirit into heart and life, for protection and guidance. If one is unable to get to a situation where God is experienced, then I'd suggest to pray to Jesus, ask for help in getting to know Him and the steps, and in the worst case fast and pray, till experience is gained. It took me a year of regular prayer before I started to experience something.

Going into the heavenly realm is quite a milestone after who knows how many reincarnations. It is not an easy phase, the last reincarnation. Jesus mentioned "Two men will be working together in the field; one will be taken, the other left."
That means, that half of the souls will not make it this time, when souls are pulled up to the Heavenly realm before judgment day. (I learned 40% will make it) Some that don't make it will remain on earth and will live, many will die. It's been like this in the past. It's part of the cycle of spiritual growth.

Speaking of the cycle. As we near the end of the cycle, souls from different parts of the universe came/come to earth. I believe that the so called indigo children are here for ascension. Coming also from places where there wasn't as much suffering as here on earth. Possibly having been connected to the spirit of God before, with a destiny of evolving their spirit at the end of the cycle here on earth. I'd like to think of them as holy Spirit sleeper cells. They might be fully unaware of their past life, not understanding why they're here, and at some point are activated by the Spirit. I'm expecting more of that, also people here on Avalon. Would be good to hear from it if such an event takes place.

The key lies within the heart.

:flower:

[greybeard]

"The person in the Advaita Vedanta video mentions:"You are God and God is you", I'd like to ask him:"Where's the fruit of that? Could you produce more?" If what he claims is true, then why not create an extra soul or two? Or create a universe? In this reality under current circumstances we can't do that yet."
Slobbe wrote.

What Advaita says is that you are Brahman there is nothing but Brahman.
Substitute the word consciousness --that makes it more readily understood what is being said.
So everything is an appearance in consciousness--Brahman alone is real.
It like when we dream--we are so creative--anything can be done --you are the one dreamer but on awakening there is the realization that you were the creator of the dream.

An item can be made of gold--its a ring perhaps--then melted down nothing but gold.
The ring and the gold not a separate thing--only one thing gold.

So in this world only one thing here Self--Brahman, Consciousness--you are That
All the shapes and forms--Maya--come and go the- only reality is you., unchanging eternal awareness

The Infinite can not be known in finite knowledge--not touched heard not available to the senses etc
So Brahman in order to know itself became all without reducing itself.
Think Genesis says much the same.
One unbroken undivided reality and the esence of the Ultimate is love
The peace that passes all understanding--The father and I are One
Advaita means "One without a second"

Sure takes a lot of believing.

Hope that helps--not saying im right, every one entitled to their belief

[Sue (Ayt)]

I think its great that there is so much discussion as to the various questions as to the nature of God.
All I can say is "I make plans and God laughs"
Chris

Me too!
:ROFL:

Another poem I've always loved that touches on the nature of God is Auguries of Innocence by William Blake


Auguries of Innocence
BY WILLIAM BLAKE

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour


The entire poem is here: Auguries of Innocence (https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43650/auguries-of-innocence)