Has anyone actually seen a Thunderbird?

[Bill Ryan]

A Thunderbird is a legendary enormous bird — which (like Bigfoot!) many consider very hard to believe can possibly be real. And there are all kinds of good reasons for that.

But here are some well-known photos, quite easy to find. There are many more.

https://mediaassets.kgun9.com/photo/2016/10/10/Tombstone%20Thunderbird%202_1476135154951_47960201_ver1.0_640_480.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dd/93/59/dd9359df67a6e1d729fa826387f6fcf9.jpg

https://mediaassets.kgun9.com/photo/2016/10/10/Tombstone%20Thunderbird%203_1476135155260_47960204_ver1.0_640_480.jpg


https://d29jd5m3t61t9.cloudfront.net/dinosaurhome.com/images/fbfiles/images/6_v_1401704102.jpg


And a number of contemporary accounts, cited in this interesting article.


https://liveabout.com/the-giant-thunderbird-returns-3862215

Does anyone reading this think they may have seen one? (I've spent a lot of time in mountains all over the world, and I never have.)

[Peter UK]

Not a Thunderbird exactly but Jordan Maxwell states that he has had a first hand sighting of a Pterodactyl.

A9LnBlOVTHA

[Tyy1907]

I remember the Native American Shaman Red Elk who was on Coast 3 or 4 times said in the Canadian province of Saskatchewan there was/is a major breeding ground for these Thundetbirds. I've personally never seen nor heard of one being seen.

[Bill Ryan]

An interesting report from Alaska, just last year:


https://juneauempire.com/life/impossibly-large-bird-spotted-in-mendenhall-valley

Impossibly large bird spotted in Mendenhall Valley
1 February, 2018

According to several eyewitness reports, a bird with a wingspan nearly the width of Mendenhall Loop Road has been spotted in the Mendenhall Valley.

The cryptozoological curiosity stems from a post in the popular Facebook page “Juneau Community Collective,” brought to the attention of the Empire by several readers. The Empire couldn’t track down a clear explanation of what the bird was, but we did talk to some bird experts and did a little digging on similar sightings from around Alaska.

Here’s the original post, from eyewitness Tabitha Bauer:

“Attn; I was just driving by the movie theater in the Valley and there was a huge black bird flying above the road. The wingspan had to be at-least 20 feet, it was almost as wide as the road. I have lived here all my life and have never seen anything like that, it freaked me out. It was not a raven or an eagle. This isn’t a joke. This thing was HUGE, almost the size of a small airplane. Did anyone else see it?”

The sighting was backed up by several others in a long comment thread on the post. Some were poking fun at the idea of a thunderbird or pterodactyl in the valley, but others weren’t so skeptical.

Bauer, recounting the sighting to the Empire a few days after spotting the bird, said it was “like an eagle, but five times as big.” She couldn’t think of any other way to describe the odd encounter.

She spotted it around 4 p.m. on Jan. 16, what would have been dusk. Bauer was driving to the bank, alone in her car.

“Right before the movie theater, I looked ahead of me and it was towards Superbear direction,” Bauer said, referencing the grocery store in the Mendenhall Mall and Gross Alaska Theatre’s Glacier Cinema.

There was rain on her windshield, so she turned on her wipers to clear the view.

That was when she saw a massive, jet-black bird with a short tail flying level with the treetops over Mendenhall Loop Road toward her. Bauer said the bird flapped its wings, soared a little higher, and flew at a fast clip over her car about 50 feet in the air.

“I looked up and right at that point, there was a gigantic, huge black bird flying right above my truck. It was basically following the roadway along the treetops.

“I slowed down to try to get a better look at it. It was heading toward the glacier, the wingspan was almost as wide as the road,” Bauer said, adding, “It was the biggest thing I’ve ever seen in my life. It was very concerning. I’ve never seen anything like that.”

Bauer said that it definitely had feathers, but she couldn’t make out a beak.

“The body of it itself had to have been six to eight feet,” Bauer said. “I know it sounds nuts — I’ve been getting a lot of crap on Facebook about it like I am crazy — but I wanted to post it in case anyone else had seen it.”

Another woman, who asked that the Empire use only her first name, Diane, said she saw something very similar — this time perched, or attempting to perch, in a tree near her house late at night a few years ago.

Diane went out to smoke a cigarette at her Lemon Creek home and noticed that all the birds in the area were excited.

“All you heard was the whooshing sound in my tree. I went inside and grabbed a flashlight. It was so large, I couldn’t even get an outline of what type of bird it was,” Diane said.

Diane noticed downed branches littered her yard in the morning.

“That sounds crazy, but it was huge,” she said. “I don’t even go camping anymore.”

Similar sightings

Both of these accounts sound similar to a national headline-making event in 2002, when a very large bird was spotted in Southcentral Alaska.

A heavy equipment operator from Togiak spotted the bird then.

“At first I thought it was one of those old-time Otter planes,” the Alaska Dispatch News (now the Anchorage Daily News) quoted Moses Coupchiak, 43, a heavy equipment operator from Togiak, as saying. “Instead of continuing toward me, it banked to the left, and that’s when I noticed it wasn’t a plane.”

So what could this be? It’s debatable what the biggest bird in Alaska is, but one candidate is the black-footed albatross, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service raptor biologist Steve Lewis said. They can have a wingspan of 6-8 feet.

But it’s highly unlikely an albatross would venture into the valley. Strong winds can sometimes blow an albatross inland, but they’re generally ocean-going birds that stick to the coast, Lewis said.

“Over the water there’s a potential to see something that may have wings like an albatross, but wouldn’t be jet black and wouldn’t be over the valley at all,” Lewis said.

The Stellar’s Eagle is another candidate. Like the black-footed albatross, those can have a wingspan of 6-8 feet. They generally don’t venture as far north as Juneau, but as recently as the 1990s they were consistently spotted only a few miles from Juneau on the Taku River, near Canada.

A third, and more likely explanation is that the bird was an immature female bald eagle. Those are the largest birds that are frequently in the area, Lewis said. Young bald eagles have bigger feathers than older eagles, he explained, which aid them as they learn to fly and can make them look larger than they are.

Female bald eagles are generally larger than their male counterparts, Lewis added. Their job in a mating pair is to defend the nest, so it helps to be big and imposing to scare off potential nest robbers.

Bauer and Diane were both adamant about the size of the bird, so neither the albatross, Steller’s eagle or immature female bald eagle squares with their account. They’re both too small and the wrong colors.

The Federal Aviation Administration didn’t return calls to this story, but since both eyewitnesses described seeing this thing flap its wings, it’s unlikely it was a glider or a large drone, by their accounts.

[The Moss Trooper]

I'm still convinced of my own sighting one August evening in 2009.

This thing was an off-white, sort of milky yellow-ish colour, and the wings, which were massive, were like leather, very pterodactyl-ish. It had a beak like that of a parrot, and when it stopped mid-air and looked at me....... It was hyper-real. It was without doubt one of the strangest things I've ever witnessed. Everything about the event was peculiar. Other animals were involved, it was their sounds of distress that first alerted me, 'time' behaved differently, my actions/re-actions were not how I'd normally react....... And then the psychology afterward, it was all very strange. Doubting myself, doubting what it was I'd seen....... Very strange.

So yes, I'm a firm believer that there are, potentially, very large creatures out there, on land, sea and air, that are adept to keeping themselves from view and only being seen when they want to be seen.

[Tyy1907]

I'm still convinced of my own sighting one August evening in 2009.

This thing was an off-white, sort of milky yellow-ish colour, and the wings, which were massive, were like leather, very pterodactyl-ish. It had a beak like that of a parrot, and when it stopped mid-air and looked at me....... It was hyper-real. It was without doubt one of the strangest things I've ever witnessed. Everything about the event was peculiar. Other animals were involved, it was their sounds of distress that first alerted me, 'time' behaved differently, my actions/re-actions were not how I'd normally react....... And then the psychology afterward, it was all very strange. Doubting myself, doubting what it was I'd seen....... Very strange.

So yes, I'm a firm believer that there are, potentially, very large creatures out there, on land, sea and air, that are adept to keeping themselves from view and only being seen when they want to be seen.

Nothing to see here, move along

[graciousb]

While getting a ride in an Uber last year in the Palm Springs area, the driver and I got talking about Contact in the Desert conference which was held nearby, so we quickly got onto ' unusual' topics and he told me he had recently seen, in broad daylight, a huge bird that he described as looking like a pterodactyl, his wife saw it too. They were gobsmacked, but later no one else seems to have seen it (wasn't reported on etc.) He was dead serious and sober.

[Peter UK]

While getting a ride in an Uber last year in the Palm Springs area, the driver and I got talking about Contact in the Desert conference which was held nearby, so we quickly got onto ' unusual' topics and he told me he had recently seen, in broad daylight, a huge bird that he described as looking like a pterodactyl, his wife saw it too. They were gobsmacked, but later no one else seems to have seen it (wasn't reported on etc.) He was dead serious and sober.

It makes me wonder whether the concept of a Pterodactyl is broader and more readily accepted in the consciousness of humanity than a Thunderbird. If that was the case then it is entirely possible that some of these pterodactyl sightings are in fact thunderbirds but overlaid with the impression of being pterodactyls.

However this would not rule out pterodactyls being witnessed which is pretty amazing!

[Did You See Them]

Years ago I was given a book - almost like a kids encyclopedia of the weird called "Magic and Supernatural" - ( very odd book - with a pentagram on the hard cover under the jacket - spooked a few people that saw it !! )
I was given it due to the fact it had a photograph of Salvador Dali in an animated pose in mid air by Philippe Halsman, called "Dalí Atomicus" and I was (and still am) a fan of Dali's technique and works.

Heres the cover I just found

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/417bkWUFviL._SY279_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

If I remember rightly there was a picture of a "Thunderbird" in the book - possibly the one Bill posted at top that can't be attributed to anything.
Wish i still had it - very interesting book as I remember.

EDIT *

Just found a youtube flick through of the book - not got time to look myself yet but a thunderbird pic is in here I'm sure.

CulI4PMtn5w

[Ratszinger]

People, credible people, professors even have reported in recent years seeing a real live pterodactyl in New Zealand. This was on a report in one of Gabi Plumm's videos on youtube I believe. It was aired in Australia also.

[Wansen]

Seems as though it’s an illustration after all.

https://vividvisuals.co.uk/x5-fantastic-illustrations-by-chris-smith/

[shaberon]

Not the zoological kind, but, just so Satanists can't take all the credit:

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-C2bWgHb5-2M/WcR694hvknI/AAAAAAABJmo/lBUrQMYwI-cMWvcrJZEPHhq_sGgMtb5sgCLcBGAs/s320/bogaz.jpg




Thunderbird Senya (http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.com/2017/09/homa-bird-syena-sena-brings-down-soma.html) is a melting pot of military and lightning terms, but is also the vehicle of Soma or nectar of immortality. This becomes Garuda, i. e. Vishnu's bird, which is finite time, which attacks or kills the serpent of infinite time. The bird cannot ultimately win that contest, since the serpent is infinite and keeps coming back, any finite time cycle eventually dissipates. So it is more interesting to me that this was understood in some way across Asia, but, at least now, is venerated more for Soma purposes.

In Buddhism, Garuda is a very powerful Yidam or meditational deity. It has several forms, applications, or rites, but in the Sakya school, multi-colored or Shabala Garuda, similar to the one in Kalachakra, is an extremely esoteric meditation which would be considered above or beyond Vajrayogini.

The Kalachakra version bites a snake:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/1800px/3/4/0/34036.jpg




Whereas the Sakya version holds a wish-fulfilling jewel in its right hand. This one is similar, also having snakes in its hair:

https://www.himalayanart.org/images/items/resized/2000px/8/1/6/81668.jpg



I am not sure about an objective one, but the subjective one has been fine all along. It has an Asian if not world-wide myth, has everything to do with Tvastr and Indian lore about nectar, and, in our schools at least, is still being employed to a high degree of efficiency. Electricity is the prime mover of any material manifestation, it is the difference between a living and dead human body, most indications are that we are talking about "the most powerful thing". It is not the devil, or the creator, it is something more like "the way energy works", which can be used by a human as a weapon or as a healer.

I haven't seen it, but I consider myself on a sort of pilgrimage that way. Even having pursued things like magic and yoga meditation for forty years, this is absolutely something I would not "tinker" with, and just try to gain an awareness of it.

[Bill Ryan]

Seems as though it’s an illustration after all.

https://vividvisuals.co.uk/x5-fantastic-illustrations-by-chris-smith/

http://vividvisuals.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Thunderbird-tombstone-damage-flat-01-539x383.jpg

That's a shame! :) (He's VERY good)

....but I wonder what they were actually holding?

[Peter UK]

Seems as though it’s an illustration after all.

https://vividvisuals.co.uk/x5-fantastic-illustrations-by-chris-smith/

That's a shame! :) (He's VERY good)

....but I wonder what they were actually holding?

According to the creator, fruit-bat wings were used. The rest of the picture was a compilation of roughly 15-20 other images.

[TelosianEmbrace]

There are reports of pterodactyl sightings from all around the world. Here's a webpage specifically devoted to sightings of a smaller size pterodactyl often seen in Papua New Guinea. I personally haven't seen any. http://www.ropens.com

[Sunny-side-up]

Hi their Bill n all.
Interesting post Bill.

I believe I have seen 3 in two occasions.
Two where way off in the distance, relatively low height, they where slowly flying around each other as in courtship or just trying to gain more height in a thermal, up-draft.
The distance away from me was quite away off but these two bird like creatures where massive.

I say bird like creatures because they first reminded me of winged Sumerians

https://rgdn.info/assets/uploads/images/photos/eeae8-sumothki-40-.jpg

Slow deliberate arm/wing movements.
I did notice at times they seemed to hang in the air without action for longer than they should have without dropping height.

The third one, months latter was very high above me and moving fast, not much time to observe.
It did look more like a being with flapping wings than a bird though.

Wish I had optics with me (omg how many times now do I wish that o,0)

[The Moss Trooper]

Hi their Bill n all.
Interesting post Bill.

I believe I have seen 3 in two occasions.
Two where way off in the distance, relatively low height, they where slowly flying around each other as in courtship or just trying to gain more height in a thermal, up-draft.
The distance away from me was quite away off but these two bird like creatures where massive.

I say bird like creatures because they first reminded me of winged Sumerians

https://rgdn.info/assets/uploads/images/photos/eeae8-sumothki-40-.jpg

Slow deliberate arm/wing movements.

I did notice at times they seemed to hang in the air without action for longer than they should have without dropping height.
Thank you Sunny-side-Up.

That is EXACTLY what happened during my sighting. It rose-up from behind a thicket, flapped it's wings once and came to a stop, mid-air, directly at my head-height (which was about 25' as I had my head out of a first-floor window). The distance it travelled with that one wing flap was about 80', I remember thinking it was too far to travel on one flap of its wings......... When it came to a stop, which lasted about 3 seconds, it turned it's head and looked directly at me, that's when time/space around me went....... I dunno, don't have the words to explain it really....... Funny. It was still looking at me as it flapped it's wings again and it was gone, completely silently too.

Just very, very strange.

What I've written here about it, (also on another thread way back a time ago) is the most I've ever talked about it. I mean, how could you bring this up in convo without anyone thinking that you're a fruit-loop?

When I read post's like yours Sunny, I do a little wry-smile, and a little nod of the head.


Thanks for that.

[Peter UK]

One of the amazing things about starting a thread like this asking some unusual question which hasn't necessarily been broached before, is just how many experiences lay unspoken awaiting the opportunity to be voiced. Many experiences are explored and voiced of course but the sheer variety of hitherto unknowns amongst members is something that shouldnt amaze us here at Avalon and yet frequently does. Testimony to a rich membership!

[uzn]

In think that the american indians called the loud crafts that their "gods" came down in thunderbirds, since they had no better word for it.

[Ratszinger]

They tell you the thunderbird got it's name from preceding storm fronts feeding on the insects high up being pushed in big clouds of them ahead of the storm. Since the birds showed up when the thunder did with the storms they called them Thunderbirds!

[AutumnW]

Haast's Eagle is a brain-aneurysm inducing species of gigantic man-eating winged monstrosities that became notorious among the Maori tribes of pre-colonial New Zealand thanks to their horrific propensity to silently dive-bomb down from the tree tops in absolute silence, crush the skulls of 450-pound beasts like a Volkswagen driving over a soda can, then fly off into the darkness clutching the tribe's women and children in a fist full of razor-sharp 4-inch talons so they could be slowly and painfully shredded to death at the beast's leisure.

This is not a myth or a legend. This is a real thing that actually lived on Earth-One's material plane as late as 1600 AD.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/haasteagle.html
The thunderbird is probably related to this creature and is likely extinct now, for the most part. If they are alive, it would be in a densely forested area, like British Columbia and possibly the Boreal Forests world wide. Likely the tiniest breeding population which would render them all inbred and sickly. But, you never know. They may take refuge in some extremely remote area, and have such a healthy fear of man they are only glimpsed very rarely.

There had to have been other eagles like the Haast's eagle on most continents.

I have never seen one and hope I never do. After watching a bald eagle pursue my dog, talons outstretched, I have a really healthy respect for those feet! It's not the beak it's the feet!

[Bill Ryan]

Haast's Eagle is a brain-aneurysm inducing species of gigantic man-eating winged monstrosities that became notorious among the Maori tribes of pre-colonial New Zealand thanks to their horrific propensity to silently dive-bomb down from the tree tops in absolute silence, crush the skulls of 450-pound beasts like a Volkswagen driving over a soda can, then fly off into the darkness clutching the tribe's women and children in a fist full of razor-sharp 4-inch talons so they could be slowly and painfully shredded to death at the beast's leisure.

This is not a myth or a legend. This is a real thing that actually lived on Earth-One's material plane as late as 1600 AD.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/haasteagle.html
The thunderbird is probably related to this creature and is likely extinct now, for the most part. If they are alive, it would be in a densely forested area, like British Columbia and possibly the Boreal Forests world wide. Likely the tiniest breeding population which would render them all inbred and sickly. But, you never know. They may take refuge in some extremely remote area, and have such a healthy fear of man they are only glimpsed very rarely.

There had to have been other eagles like the Haast's eagle on most continents.

I have never seen one and hope I never do. After watching a bald eagle pursue my dog, talons outstretched, I have a really healthy respect for those feet! It's not the beak it's the feet!

~~~

That's pretty interesting. 1600 AD isn't very long ago. This image shows Haast's eagle on the right. (On the left is a Moa.)

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/haasteagle2a.jpg

And here's a recreation of the thing:

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/haasteagle3.jpg

[Ratszinger]

The largest species of the late Cretaceous Pteranodon attained wingspans of up to 30 feet, much larger than any flying birds alive today. By comparison, Pterodactylus (which lived tens of millions of years earlier) was a relative runt, the wingspans of the largest individuals spanning only eight feet or so (and most species boasting wingspans of only two or three feet, well within the current avian range.) There was much less difference in the weight of these pterosaurs; both were extremely light, in order to generate the maximal amount of lift needed to fly.

Interesting tidbits if interested! Quetzalcoatlus, a late Cretaceous pterosaur with a wingspan of 35 to 40 feet (about the size of a small plane). Fittingly, Quetzalcoatlus was named after Quetzalcoatl, the flying, feathered god of the Aztecs. (By the way, Quetzalcoatlus may itself one day be supplanted in the record books by Hatzegopteryx, a comparably sized pterosaur represented by frustratingly fragmentary fossil remains!)

https://www.thoughtco.com/things-to-know-pterodactyls-1093797

[Sunny-side-up]

Hi The Crimson Horse Blanket sounds like you had quite a close encounter.

Just wondering is you could describe the creature in more detail:

What was it's head like?
What was it's body like?
Was it bird, reptile or ?

[The Moss Trooper]

Hi The Crimson Horse Blanket sounds like you had quite a close encounter.

Just wondering is you could describe the creature in more detail:

What was it's head like?
What was it's body like?
Was it bird, reptile or ?


It was a hot summers late evening, 10 - 10:30pm, and I was sat near an open first floor window of a beautiful barn-conversion that was part of a rural farm that had recently been developed into high-end living. Being it was in the countryside, it was very peaceful and quiet, especially at that time of night......... I don't know how long I was listening, but I suddenly became aware of a dog/dogs barking, in distress. I got up and put my head out of the window and looked to my left, where the sound was coming from, which was behind a thicket of trees about 80-odd ft to my left.

I then saw this 'thing' just rise-up, vertically, to about 10ft above the tops of the trees....... It just looked like a dirty-white mass of something, It then beat it's wings once and was level with me and about 15ft away....... It's head reminded me of a seals and was the size of a large dog's, but it had a beak like a puffin, or a parrot, which was black. It's eyes were just pools of black and I did not want to look into them. I then became aware of it's wings going up again, that's when I saw that they were like leather, and it gave one flap and was gone, it's wings were about 8ft long each......... I looked after it and it travelled an impossible distance on one flap of the wings, and then that was that, it was gone from my line of site. I didn't get a good look at the rest of the body...... It was head, beak, eyes, wings, then gone.

One of the crazy things is, my partner at the time was no more than 10ft away from me when this took place. I didn't shout for her to come and look, I didn't even tell her about it afterwards, or since. I found myself many a time, even years later, looking up and in trees when I've been alone in the countryside, walking, driving, whatever. It's not like I live in some wilderness, where I am is only a small island, 9 miles by 5.

But, and this is what I've come round to thinking since the event, where I am is well known for the dark arts. There are plenty of covens who practice, I've seen with my own eyes some of these sites after certain dates, the egg shells, toads, evidence of sacrifice....... This place is also well connected to elite paedophillia and trafficking. What I saw I now believe to have been demonic rather than pre-historic.

[Ratszinger]

What timing! Flying Dragons! (https://www.foxnews.com/science/cryodrakon-boreas-flying-dragon)

[Sunny-side-up]

Hmm Crimson Horse Blanket, that's quite a scary creature you witnessed.

Not like anything I have heard of.
Sounds like a evocation, metaphysical.

[Bill Ryan]

Hmm Crimson Horse Blanket, that's quite a scary creature you witnessed.

Not like anything I have heard of.
Sounds like a evocation, metaphysical.
There have been many sightings over the years — NOT by crazy people! — of creatures that seemingly can't possibly exist. How does one reconcile this?

In the article I quoted in my opening post, this one —>


https://liveabout.com/the-giant-thunderbird-returns-3862215

There were cited quite a number of Thunderbird sightings in Pennsylvania.

Now, we can make a connection. (Maybe!)

UFO and Bigfoot researcher, Stan Gordon — a grounded and intelligent man — is based in Pennsylvania. And he's heard many dozens of reports of anomalous Bigfoot sightings that appear to be utterly paranormal.

Here's how I started the Is Bigfoot at least partly interdimensional? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103237-Is-Bigfoot-at-least-partly-interdimensional) thread:
(http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103237-Is-Bigfoot-at-least-partly-interdimensional)
~~~



A highly controversial question.

I recently listened to two of paranormal investigator Stan Gordon's interviews with Linda Howe. I'd highly recommend them for any reader here who's seriously interested in the topic.


6 April 2017:
http://kgraradioarchives.com/Shows/phenomenon-radio/2017/PRS040617KGRA%20-%20PHENOMENON%20-%20%20Special%20Guest%20Stan%20Gordon.mp3



19 Oct 2017:
http://kgraradioarchives.com/Shows/phenomenon-radio/2017/PRS101917KGRA%20-%20PHENOMENON%20-%20%20Special%20Guest%20Stan%20Gordon%202.mp3

The first interview starts with the Dec 1965 Kecksburg UFO incident (interesting in itself: Stan Gordon demonstrates what a detail-oriented, careful researcher he is). His section on Bigfoot is the second half, starting at 1:02:48.

Stan repeats many of the experiencers' reports in the second show, adding some more. The entire show is worth listening to, but that section really kicks in in earnest with Linda's question at 36:30, when she asks Stan to go into all the evidence he's collected that Bigfoot may be interdimensional. That leads into the whole rest of the show.

There are some extraordinary stories there, which there's no a priori reason to dismiss or discount. Like when one 7-8 foot tall hairy creature, apparently solid flesh and blood, was shot at point blank range through a log cabin doorway and then disappeared in a flash of light. Another Bigfoot, elsewhere, was hit by a vehicle, and that also immediately disappeared.

There are MANY other reports like that. But most cryptozoologists (understandably! :) ) just don't want to hear them.

To paraphrase what Stan states, he's coming to believe that there are MANY highly strange Bigfoot experiences (and other cryptids, too: he also talks about Thunderbirds, including one case where it seemed to the witness to be 'transparent') — but that because they're so frankly unbelievable, either the witnesses stay silent on the seemingly ridiculous and impossible details, or the investigators themselves do when they write up their reports.

My own position. As some know, I've been most interested in the Ecuadorian accounts of the 'Wawa Grande' (literally: 'Big Baby'), which apparently hangs out in the Cajas National Park quite close to where I live.

There are well-documented reports, including that of one solo hiker who was hospitalized 20 years ago with deep cuts and scratches when he was attacked by one. That really happened. (And there are no black/brown/grizzly bears here that could do that kind of thing.)

See this thread for details:


Bigfoot in my back yard in Ecuador (well, pretty close) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?92551-Bigfoot-in-my-back-yard-in-Ecuador--well-pretty-close-)

So, I went searching. A sort of diary is here:


Another vicarious adventure, and another Avalon Cairn (for the Wawa Grande, this time) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?93672-Another-vicarious-adventure-and-another-Avalon-Cairn--for-the-Wawa-Grande-this-time-)

I've spent MANY days now in very high and remote regions, and I've come know the area very well. It's totally wild: I've never once seen another hiker in many hundreds of hours up there with just myself and my dog. Nor have I seen a footprint, or any signs at all that a large primate could exist there.

The anomaly is that there's almost nothing to eat. It's a high (12,000-14,500 ft) alpine landscape, stark and beautiful. Here's a photo I took a couple of weeks ago: (for scale, my dog Mara is standing like a mountain goat on the skyline ridge to the top left)

http://projectavalon.net/June_2018_hike_panorama.jpg
Hi-res image: http://projectavalon.net/June_2018_hike_panorama_lg.jpg

There are some wild llamas and deer, and a few small mammals, but it's not like thick California forest which is rich in goodies for a large animal to feast on. It's very barren. 95%+ of the green in the photo is tough, short grass that only llamas and deer could eat.

So after over a year and a half of expeditions, I started to wonder a few months ago what kind of creature the Wawa Grande really is. Stan Gordon may have offered part of the answer — but, I have to say, it's really hard to process.
~~~

The Pennsylvania connection raises the possibility that Thunderbirds (or, at least some of whatever these things are) may be interdimensional, as well.

One wild possibility that has just now occurred to me is that these are somehow time traveling entities. Maybe quite accidental ones, appearing in our world having fallen unintentionally into some kind of portal. I'm not aware of this having ever been suggested before.

Meaning: maybe these creatures did exist once here on Earth, in an environment that supported them in every way as natural living creatures. That could apply to many of these weird, 'impossible' cryptids like Lake Monsters, Pterodactyls, Thunderbirds, and maybe (partially) Bigfoot — though flesh-and-blood Bigfoots do seem to exist as real here-and-now living animals.

The problem is always the very difficult biological one of 'breeding herds' (and, also, what they can possibly eat and live on). The Mokele Mbembe in the Congo (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?108606-Mokele-mbembe----a-surviving-dinosaur-in-the-Congo) might find a great deal to eat there! But the Wawa Grande in Ecuador (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?92551-Bigfoot-in-my-back-yard-in-Ecuador--well-pretty-close-), sighted in very remote areas way above the tree line, has almost no food sources.

A large creature can't just exist all on its own. There have to be a minimum number of them in order to survive. So just maybe, they don't 'belong' in our world, or in our time, at all.

[PathWalker]

I could not help it.

Here is the latest Thunderbirds we saw in TV 40 years ago.
It was very popular show. And the SF effects were great.

BfIAKj3Gl1E

Looking it up in UT, found there is a recent remake with animation.

Hope you enjoy it as much.


In my navy duty service we had a Sargent with stiff neck that walked like the puppets in the show. So when he was around we sang the TV show tune.

It was hilarious.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Just as an alternative suggestion, and not to question real sightings of cryptids, avian or otherwise, I wonder.. might the Thunderbird of Native American mythology be less biological in nature (at least in some cases) and more technological?

Ancient cultures had no frame of reference for anything that flew above their heads beyond that which was familiar to their daily experience – being birds. Anything they saw traversing the sky would default to a bird of some kind. But descriptions of the Thunderbird differ. Was it always just "a very large breed of bird?" I do wonder. If an aboriginal person witnessed a modern day helicopter flying overhead for example, I suspect they'd report "a huge, terrible, roaring, whirring bird" or similar, yet a bird all the same, one sprung from hell more than likely. Around that sighting many tales would be told, translated and transformed, and it would probably see, eventually, some sort of spiritual or religious meaning being attached to it.

In many of these tales, the Thunderbirds were so large that when they flapped their "wings" thunder was created – hence their name. But also, apparently, whenever they blinked their eyes, lightning flashed out of them (something similar, interestingly, was reported in sightings of the Mothman in the 1960s). Might these "eyes" be lights, and might these lightning bolts be rays/beams of light shining down?

There are also stories that the Thunderbird had another face in the middle of its chest, which suggests that whoever witnessed that was seeing something other than a bird. The bird was also very, very large. So large and mighty it could easily carry a whale in its talons (a feat of physics unlikely for any real species of bird to accomplish).

One key Thunderbird myth dates to that universally recorded "Great flood", an environmental disaster. The Quillayute ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quileute ) Indians of the Pacific Northwest told how the Thunderbird, sent by the Great Spirit, came out of the heavens to save them:



"The people waited. No one spoke. There was nothing but silence and darkness. Suddenly, there came a great noise, and flashes of lightning cut the darkness. A deep whirring sound, like giant wings beating, came from the place of the setting sun. All of the people turned to gaze toward the sky above the ocean as a huge, bird-shaped creature flew toward them.

This bird was larger than any they had ever seen. Its wings, from tip to tip, were twice as long as a war canoe. It had a huge, curving beak, and its eyes glowed like fire. The people saw that its great claws held a living, giant whale. In silence, they watched while Thunderbird - for so the bird was named by everyone - carefully lowered the whale to the ground before them.

Thunderbird then flew high in the sky, and went back to the thunder and lightning it had come from. Perhaps it flew back to its perch in the hunting grounds of the Great Spirit. Thunderbird and Whale saved the Quillayute from dying. The people knew that the Great Spirit had heard their prayer." [source] (http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/03/26/powerful-thunderbird-sent-gods-protect-humans-evil-native-american-legends/ )


The Cowichan ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowichan_Tribes ) people of Vancouver Island believed there was a population of Thunderbirds ( https://mythology.net/mythical-creatures/thunderbird/), a belief shared by the Shawnee. They could literally "shapeshift" into human form by tilting back their beaks like a mask and by removing their feathers as if they wore a feather-covered blanket. When this was done, a Thunderbird could walk among humans without drawing attention.


A Shape-shifting Thunderbird
https://mythology.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Thunderbird-shapeshifting-to-human-form.jpg

According to the Menominee ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menominee ) of Wisconsin, the Thunderbirds lived on an enormous mountain that floated in the sky. They controlled the elements - rain, wind, and flood. They watched the happenings of human lives below, and were said to find great pleasure in fighting and the accomplishment of impressive feats. This sounds very much like the Olympians of ancient Greece to me.

According to the Passamaquoddy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passamaquoddy ) people of Maine and New Brunswick, the Thunderbirds were men who could transform themselves into flying creatures. To the Algonquian ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algonquian_peoples) People, they deeply revered the Thunderbird, as according to their legends the Thunderbirds were ancestors of the human race.

By many cultures, the Thunderbird was seen as a benevolent protector, an enforcer of morality – but one that should never be angered. For me, that's characteristic of "ETs masquerading of gods", and if you're a subscriber to the Von Daniken school of mythological history, threads of this kind can be found woven into the backstories of many myths of ancient times. The fierce anger of the Thunderbird was terrible to behold. It laid down brutal punishments for people who had done wrong - and reminiscent of Lot's wife fleeing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, is said to have turned an entire villages to stone for their wrongdoings.

Interesting, also, are legends of the Sioux, who spoke of the Thunderbirds destroying dangerous reptilian monsters called the Unktehila, who saw all humans as parasites. This mythology was shared by the Menominee of Wisconsin, who tell of great horned snakes – the Misikinubik – who the Thunderbirds prevented from overrunning the earth and devouring mankind.

In summary, the legend of the Thunderbird is tremendously rich and varied, and it, whatever 'it' is/was, maybe a confusion of many different things. Maybe a giant bird, a breed of great eagle or condor perhaps. Maybe a creature not even native to this earthly dimension. Some sightings may even be alien craft, and others, alien beings in disguise.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

What timing! Flying Dragons! (https://www.foxnews.com/science/cryodrakon-boreas-flying-dragon)


I wonder if they had hollow bones as do birds.

[DeDukshyn]

What timing! Flying Dragons! (https://www.foxnews.com/science/cryodrakon-boreas-flying-dragon)


I wonder if they had hollow bones as do birds.

Yes they did. So did some of the dinosaurs. Warm bloodedness and good care for their young are also determined to be shared traits between dinos and birds ... along with feathers!

Makes me wonder if the pterasaurs may have actually been at least partially feathered as well ... it wouldn't be out of place.

[shaberon]

In response to paranormal Bigfoot and the shapeshifting Thunderbird, and the demonic one, I think it is like that.

In Bhutan the Yeti is explained the exact same way. The main difference is that is a purified area and the Yeti is from a high class of beneficial beings, it mostly lives on the astral plane and manifests at will.

The further away you get from Everest, it's all downhill from there.

There could be a plain biological pterodactyl, or Merfolk who are actually hunting us.

In this case there are probably multiple explanations of different kinds of beings that have the form of a large bird or even a man-bird. But where there are not Yeti then you are likely to get increasing amounts of vile ones.

Similar to many of the Native Americans, I will hold there is a kind that is important to man. If you honor it you can force away the nasties.

[sunwings]

Argentavis, the biggest known bird to ever exist.

https://i.redd.it/3qwjtqvtb8y51.jpg

I came across this on Reddit.

[Savannah]

https://www.singularfortean.com/news/2020/6/23/second-pilot-reports-sighting-of-mothman-at-chicagos-ohare-international-airport

I wonder if the Mouth man sightings could be thunderbirds?