Space Elevator to the Moon

[Cara]

This certainly reminds me of the devices described in some science fiction books... Apparently, this is now feasible and (relatively) affordable.


A space elevator to the moon could be doable — and surprisingly cheap
New study suggests that a lunar space elevator could be built for about $1 billion using existing technology.
Sept. 13, 2019, 4:30 AM ET

https://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2019_36/3000811/190906-space-elevator-main-kh_78289e8d77917a269a23f4cc073b836d.fit-2000w.gif

Since the dawn of the space era more than six decades ago, there’s been just one way to get to the moon and back: rockets. But a pair of graduate students say we should now be able to ferry humans and cargo between Earth and our natural satellite via a sort of high-tech elevator.

The idea of space elevators isn’t new; spaceflight visionaries have been talking about them at least since 1895. But Zephyr Penoyre and Emily Sandford envision a system that would be used not to ferry humans and cargo from Earth’s surface to Earth orbit — the goal of so-called classical space elevator concepts (https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/colossal-elevator-space-could-be-going-sooner-you-ever-imagined-ncna915421) — but to provide transportation to and from the moon.

In a study published Aug. 25 on the online research archive arXiv (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__arxiv.org_pdf_1908.09339.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=LO_8KzsOlAGvgA6hdGI4v02U_XLiES0sR51Zca0yIy4&r=12hYI6o0dNtkIxrMQ3Xf-vJyUWzydzCrp-Lbu0xEPPw&m=3E-z93azbpwqOkn7UWR67NAimYh4zs9DnesFwFO-OyE&s=w5ZCn9OrVnDGCQaBYvuzklYoaQGW-C5sOchJMdswxyw&e=), the students contend that it’s technologically and financially feasible to build such a "lunar space elevator," which was first publicly detailed by Jerome Pearson at a conference in 1977 and by Yuri Arsutanov in a separate paper published in 1979.

“It shocks me how cheap it could be,” says study co-author Penoyre, a graduate student in astronomy at the University of Cambridge, adding that the $1 billion it might take to build such an elevator “is within the whim of one particularly motivated billionaire.”

A very long cable

Penoyre and Sandford, a graduate student in astronomy at Columbia University and a co-author of the study, call their lunar space elevator concept Spaceline. Its central element is a cable that would be anchored to the moon and span more than 200,000 miles to a point above Earth's surface — perhaps an orbit about 27,000 miles from our planet. (The cable of a lunar space elevator couldn’t be anchored to Earth’s surface because the relative motions of the moon and our planet wouldn't permit it.)

As explained in the paper, the simplest version of the Spaceline cable might be barely thicker than the lead in a pencil and might weigh about 88,000 pounds — within the payload capacity of a next-generation NASA or SpaceX rocket. It could be made from Kevlar or other existing materials rather than the exotic and hard-to-make carbon-based materials that have long been seen as the key to building a classical space elevator.

Future space travelers would use a spacecraft to fly from Earth to the end of the dangling cable, which would be held taut by Earth's gravity, and then transfer to solar-powered robotic vehicles (https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/how-swarms-steam-powered-robots-could-map-solar-system-ncna965911) that would climb up the cable to the moon. The voyage might take days or weeks. Return trips would simply reverse the process.

Why spend hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars erecting a lunar space elevator instead of relying on proven rocket technology? Penoyre and Sandford say in their paper that the former might ultimately be more economical, especially for bringing raw materials back to Earth from moon-based mines.

A paper published by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/newviews2018/pdf/6016.pdf) estimated that a lunar space elevator system might pay for itself within 53 trips by transporting lunar materials to a space station between the moon and the Earth.

Mining the moon

For years, experts have been eyeing the moon as a potential source of valuable raw materials ranging from helium-3, a heavy version of the familiar gas that could find possible use in fusion reactors (https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/fusion-power-start-ups-go-small-effort-bring-commercial-reactors-ncna998451), to rare earth minerals (https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/mission-rare-metal-asteroid-could-spark-space-mining-boom-ncna1027971) like neodymium and gadolinium, which are used to make cellphones, medical scanners and other high-tech devices.

“A space elevator is like a railroad — you don’t build it unless you expect a lot of railroad traffic,” says physicist Marshall Eubanks, chief scientist at Space Initiatives, a satellite technology company in Palm Bay, Florida. He calls the calculations used in the Spaceline paper sound but cautions that Earth-orbiting satellites could collide with the colossal cable — a potential problem that could be mitigated by keeping the cable outside Earth's orbital space lanes.

Despite their potential advantages over rocket transport, neither lunar space elevators nor classical space elevators have gotten much attention from space agencies or aerospace manufacturers. NASA has funded occasional studies (http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/studies/final_report/1032Pearson.pdf) on classical space elevator concepts since the late 1970s. But as of now there is no SpaceX for space elevators, even though companies in China and Japan have floated proposals for building classical space elevators (https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/colossal-elevator-space-could-be-going-sooner-you-ever-imagined-ncna915421) by 2045 and 2050, respectively.

“One thing that’s frustrating is the lunar space elevator idea doesn’t have much traction, and yet it’s a feasible idea and economically a game-changer,” says Space Initiatives CEO Charles Radley.

Elevator debate

Some experts say a classical space elevator might make more sense than a lunar space elevator, at least initially, because it could help facilitate exploration. For example, a classical space elevator might be used to assemble a huge spacecraft in Earth orbit and then launch it from there. Experts say that would likely be easier than launching the spacecraft from Earth, where gravity is so intense.

But the classical space elevator would require a much stronger cable to withstand the higher forces exerted on the cable — and it’s unclear when materials strong enough and of sufficient length to make a suitable cable will be available.

"The classical space elevator is a really tough problem, because the Earth's gravity field is so great that you need such strong materials that we don’t have right now," says Jerome Pearson, an aerospace engineer and president of Star, Inc., an aerospace company in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina, and the author of several papers on space elevators. "On the other hand, you could build a lunar space elevator with existing materials right now."

Given that concern, Pearson endorses the idea of moving forward with a lunar space elevator as a precursor to building a classical space elevator. "There are a lot of advantages with a lunar space elevator," Pearson says. "And with this new NASA program to return to the moon, there may be additional interest."
From: https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/amp/ncna1051496

[meeradas]

How do they avoid all the space junk from crashing into these?

[Sunny-side-up]

Right ,so this is a elevator strung out from the Moon towards Earth.
So not much space junk their meeradas ;)

We would still fly up out from Earth the the end of the tether (some sort of stationary base platform, then jump in a lift to the Moon.
Interesting

[Ratszinger]

Until the day a meteorite flies right through the thing destroying it on the way into the atmosphere I suppose it could work. Not so sure how the moon and earth can negotiate sharing a device attached to both physically. Doesn't seem possible.

[Cara]

Thanks all for the comments.

Another question I had is: If it's so simple and doable, why hasn't it been done already? Or perhaps it has :-)

[Michi]

By the time there are operational shuttles between earth and space stations, there will be also shuttles between a space station and the moon.

[Ratszinger]

It must be an elevator to space where you just you know, pop out the other end with a notice as the back door slams telling you which way to steer toward the moon and how far it is today. I would imagine there would times when demand for time in the elevator would be hotter like when the moon was right there so it's just pop away vs the other times always open for a trip where you have to circumnavigate 1/2 the earth diameter to get there! Pricing and life insurance per trip if you took the option would probably adjust day to day as the moon changes position also and hey there may be scalping of the tickets and all the deviant behavior associated with elevator time and even staged deaths where they send off an empty ship to let it you know, crash or burn or something and pretend they were on it.

Call it a remote view of the future! :-) Truthfully it may be related to the med. weed I smoked earlier to relief some cancer treatment but whatever works right?

[Satori]

This will never come to pass. Not in the classic physics-macro-mechanistic way expressed by this idea.

For instance, just think of the practical problems of providing food, water, rest and bathroom facilities for the travelers; not to mention the practical problems related to the construction, functioning, maintenance, etc... of the "space elevator" itself. Theoretically surmountable, but insurmountable in practical reality.

[Ernie Nemeth]

There is no known material that can hold its own weight without breaking over a length of a few, gonna guess, hundred miles. It is not the length that is the problem, we can pump out millions of miles of steel wire without a problem. But steel has a limit in tensile strength that is far exceeded by the length of 200,000+ miles.

And if it were possible, it would not be thin, that much is for sure.

Space elevator is not a new concept. Placing it on the moon might be.

[justntime2learn]

I've heard of carbon fiber being used instead of steel. Steel won't work for reasons mentioned above. With that, I don't believe carbon fiber would be strong enough, but I'm no expert.

Is it possible other materials stronger than carbon fiber are available? Would we know?

I found it interesting that Cara raises the question whether or not this has been done. The Moon? I'm not sure. Earth orbit? I can't rule anything out.

[amor]

I have read on the internet in the past about fantastically heavy and large constructions being lifted into space using anti-gravity machines. why on earth would anyone wish to tangle with an idea full of possible disasters. It would be simply cheaper to produce whatever products are made of extracted mining materials right there on the moon and transport them back to earth on anti-gravity craft.

[Frank V]

I've heard of carbon fiber being used instead of steel. Steel won't work for reasons mentioned above. With that, I don't believe carbon fiber would be strong enough, but I'm no expert.

Carbon fiber is significantly stronger than steel ─ and lighter than aluminium ─ but it too has its limits, and the cost of manufacturing it would be exponentially higher than if the thing were constructed from steel, aluminium or even titanium. That's why supercars that make extensive use of carbon fiber ─ McLaren, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Pagani, Bugatti, et al ─ are all so expensive.

In fact, I saw a video yesterday with a Q&A about the new Bugatti Chiron ─ the currently fastest production car in the world, with an officially registered top speed of 491 km/h ─ and in said video, it was mentioned that customers can order their car with an entirely carbon-fiber body shell. Granted, it would be more expensive than needed because the aesthetics would demand that the carbon fiber threads of all the separate body panels need to be perfectly aligned, which demands a painstakingly meticulous devotion from the people making the body panels.

But such a body shell ─ and mind you, we're now talking of something that looks like a car, but that's just an outer shell, with no engine, no gearbox, no axles or wheels and no interior ─ would cost the customer an extra USD $350'000. That's more money than what you pay for a well-equipped Lamborghini Huracàn, McLaren 720S or Ferrari 488. Just for a body shell that's shorter than 5 meters in length, just over 2 meters in width and ─ without the ground clearance, because there are no wheels ─ about 1 meter in height.

Either way, I think the proposal for a space elevator is insane. First of all, they are overlooking the tidal forces ─ it may be rooted at the moon, but it'll have to reach well within the influence of Earth's own gravitational field ─ and secondly, there is the cosmic radiation hazard. And then we're not even getting into all of the other things that people here have mentioned, such as criminal, geopolitical and strategic consequences and abuse scenarios.

Just my two cents. ;)

[samsdice]

How do they avoid all the space junk from crashing into these?

I'm thinking about the STS tether incident - will our space brothers allow it?

[Sunny-side-up]

Until the day a meteorite flies right through the thing destroying it on the way into the atmosphere I suppose it could work. Not so sure how the moon and earth can negotiate sharing a device attached to both physically. Doesn't seem possible.

Hi Ratszinger, it's not physically attached to the Moon and Earth, just the Moon.

But yeah it's never going to be built.

Having said that though, maybe smaller localised versions rising up from the Luna surface from mining operations.
These would create fast turn around operations and ease the need for actual complex landings on to the Moon.

[Ernie Nemeth]

The moon's gravity is 1/6th the Earth's gravity, or merely 17%. That means that for the same energy cost, six pounds can be lifted from the moon's surface for every pound lifted from Earth.

An elevator makes no sense on the moon. A rail gun could easily shoot heavy payloads off the moon's surface for a fraction of the price. That's using off the shelf components - and not a whole new technology.

[greybeard]

By the time we would be capable of excavating material from the moon advanced ways of doing this will be found --elevator forget it--more like beam me up Scottie I suspect.
We havent yet caught up with ancient advanced civilizations here.
We cant even figure out how they quarried, cut, moved and placed massive stones in Pyramids and other buildings-walls all over the world.

Chris

[CurEus]

If they could somehow manage to make a tube.........would not the vaccum of space just suck up anything placed in the tube?
I picture a larger version of the tubes used to deliver mail and small items in the 1940's.

It would not need to be very large....a continuous supply of small materials would be sufficient.....getting items to earth could pose additional challenges.
Some posit our oceans have too much water......by maybe 400 feet globally. stick a tube/straw in it and deliver the excess to the moon! How anyone would prevent it from freezing and exploding is beyond me though....unless the sun somehow heats the tubes....?

Interesting ideas....haha we could make space igloos!

[gs_powered]

Assuming the technology exists, the ideal would be a carbon based nano material that would "extend" itself to an orbiting outpost, a 2 by 4 size would suffice, and serve as lift by having a platform attached to it. I would charge the nano material electrically to make the platform rise via electromagnetic pull. After the delivery on the outpost, the nano material could be either collected there or retract back to earth. Same technology could be used from the oupost onward I guess... :)

[Frank V]

If they could somehow manage to make a tube.........would not the vaccum of space just suck up anything placed in the tube?

Suction is merely the removal of a counterbalancing pressure to a pressure on the opposite side. So if anything is sucked up into a tube, then it's only because there is a pressure acting upon it from the opposite end, pushing it into the tube. Where would this pressure come from, when you're in space? :eyebrows:

[Ernie Nemeth]

If I was looking into energy production in space I would consider taking advantage of the high contrast heat differential in space and any planets or moons without an atmosphere. Put up a shield to create contrast and use a gas that liquefies at low temperature and pump it from side to side (the pressure differential would take care of that) through an energy converter/ heat recovery system.

With available energy anything would be possible, including electrolysis of water into oxygen and hydrogen - rocket fuel!

Until we have a new propulsion system, this scenario or something similar will be what is used at least at first.

[Lyran.Sun]

People have been using a teleporting machine to the moon in secret.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Not fair! That's a secret...shhhhh

[Mashika]

I thought of something very similar to the railgun. Like packaging whatever is going to be sent, then just push it to earth's direction, kind of like 'let it fall into earth'. On the earth side we just pick the packages up by aligning and attaching to them and adjusting their trajectory so it enters the atmosphere as any other current capsule, like the Soyuz does

Something like that?

[Bill Ryan]

People have been using a teleporting machine to the moon in secret.I appreciate your intention to contribute, but you have to cite sources, not necessarily believe everything you read or hear, and not just make simple one-sentence statements.

Because they may not be accurate. We're a kind of mini-university here... not just a collection of tweets or Facebook comments. :) We collect information, study things carefully, and work together to figure out the truth on many subjects, as best as we can.

Having said that, we at Project Camelot were told in detail by witness 'Henry Deacon' (pseudonym: his real name is Arthur Neumann) that there exists an operational traversible wormhole that has its 'anchored other end' on Mars. He had personally witnessed this at first hand.

However, he had no idea how this thing was anchored, as of course all planetary orbits and spatial relationships are ever-changing in a really complex swirling dynamic system. As a matter of record, he only mentioned Mars, and never the Moon. And as a another note, everything Andrew Basiago has ever said about this can be discounted.

[Lyran.Sun]

People have been using a teleporting machine to the moon in secret.I appreciate your intention to contribute, but you have to cite sources, not necessarily believe everything you read or hear, and not just make simple one-sentence statements.

Because they may not be accurate. We're a kind of mini-university here... not just a collection of tweets or Facebook comments. :) We collect information, study things carefully, and work together to figure out the truth on many subjects, as best as we can.

Having said that, we at Project Camelot were told in detail by witness 'Henry Deacon' (pseudonym: his real name is Arthur Neumann) that there exists an operational traversible wormhole that has its 'anchored other end' on Mars. He had personally witnessed this at first hand.

However, he had no idea how this thing was anchored, as of course all planetary orbits and spatial relationships are ever-changing in a really complex swirling dynamic system. As a matter of record, he only mentioned Mars, and never the Moon. And as a another note, everything Andrew Basiago has ever said about this can be discounted.

Alright I'll try to remember the source. this is a mainstream science thread so I just commented vaguely.

The Nazis Thule society had retrieved many advanced tech blueprints etc from the abandoned atlantean base in Antarctica. 1 of the tech they came out with is the die glocke Nazi bell which is a teleportation device to teleport to the moon base & other military areas. Nazis didn't lose the war they went underground & some to North America & Argentina. The third Reich Nazis are in control of the moon activities etc well they are the forth Reich now. I never thought of discussing this on a mainstream technology thread. I'll try to find the sources. I heard this from various whistleblowers.

[Mashika]

Sorry to interrupt but I feel like your reply is still missing to comply what Mr Bill asked,

I mean, you said this


The Nazis Thule society had retrieved many advanced tech blueprints etc from the abandoned atlantean base in Antarctica

How? Where? Where did you learned this from?

I feel like we should define this first before moving on to the other stuff on your comment


Also i hate 'etc' because it means nothing at all in the context of conversations such as this one :)

[Lyran.Sun]

Sorry to interrupt but I feel like your reply is still missing to comply what Mr Bill asked,

I mean, you said this


The Nazis Thule society had retrieved many advanced tech blueprints etc from the abandoned atlantean base in Antarctica

How? Where? Where did you learned this from?

I feel like we should define this first before moving on to the other stuff on your comment


Also i hate 'etc' because it means nothing at all in the context of conversations such as this one :)

I mentioned it was informations from various whistleblowers. Your feelings can't be use as a valid reasoning. Many people use etc. I already said this is a mainstream science thread where many here lack in occult knowledge. So I have no interest to explain myself to anyone with insufficient knowledge of occult & conspiracy subject. As this leads to major cognitive dissonance to those who lack intuitive thinking. You sound like a shill to me that vibrates on an energetic vampiric level.

[Billy]

Sorry to interrupt but I feel like your reply is still missing to comply what Mr Bill asked,

I mean, you said this


The Nazis Thule society had retrieved many advanced tech blueprints etc from the abandoned atlantean base in Antarctica

How? Where? Where did you learned this from?

I feel like we should define this first before moving on to the other stuff on your comment


Also i hate 'etc' because it means nothing at all in the context of conversations such as this one :)

I mentioned it was informations from various whistleblowers. Your feelings can't be use as a valid reasoning. Many people use etc. I already said this is a mainstream science thread where many here lack in occult knowledge. So I have no interest to explain myself to anyone with insufficient knowledge of occult & conspiracy subject. As this leads to major cognitive dissonance to those who lack intuitive thinking. You sound like a shill to me that vibrates on an energetic vampiric level.

You are not making a very good impression here Lyran.Sun. Mashika's question was very reasonable.
How and where did you learn this?
I add. What various whistleblowers ?
You do not cite your sources therefore your blabbering has no value.
Your reply to Mashika is very disrespectful and rude.

We do not allow this sort of behaviour on Avalon. If you value your membership, take more care with your expressions.

[Cara]

Sorry to interrupt but I feel like your reply is still missing to comply what Mr Bill asked,

I mean, you said this


The Nazis Thule society had retrieved many advanced tech blueprints etc from the abandoned atlantean base in Antarctica

How? Where? Where did you learned this from?

I feel like we should define this first before moving on to the other stuff on your comment


Also i hate 'etc' because it means nothing at all in the context of conversations such as this one :)

I mentioned it was informations from various whistleblowers. Your feelings can't be use as a valid reasoning. Many people use etc. I already said this is a mainstream science thread where many here lack in occult knowledge. So I have no interest to explain myself to anyone with insufficient knowledge of occult & conspiracy subject. As this leads to major cognitive dissonance to those who lack intuitive thinking. You sound like a shill to me that vibrates on an energetic vampiric level.

Moderator post:


Hello Lyran.Sun,

Two things:

First, Avalon's motto is "where science and spirituality meet". So, we tend not to make such a differentiation between "mainstream" and "non-mainstream" threads. Many members and the threads they contribute to explore all aspects of a situation - whether esoteric or more everyday.

So, please share the particulars and details for what you post in this and other threads. I am sure readers would like to know more about these ideas.

Secondly, you've suggested that member Mashika is a shill in your post. I'd like to remind you of the Forum Guidelines (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/announcement.php?f=3) and that this is not okay:


Disagreeing with various points or topics is natural, and has always been a healthy component of all human activity throughout history. However, we do require that all members are treated with respect. In very many cases, what matters is not what you say... but how you say it.

Thanks.

:focus:

[Kamikaze]

delete it all.

[Lyran.Sun]

Sorry to interrupt but I feel like your reply is still missing to comply what Mr Bill asked,

I mean, you said this


The Nazis Thule society had retrieved many advanced tech blueprints etc from the abandoned atlantean base in Antarctica

How? Where? Where did you learned this from?

I feel like we should define this first before moving on to the other stuff on your comment


Also i hate 'etc' because it means nothing at all in the context of conversations such as this one :)

I mentioned it was informations from various whistleblowers. Your feelings can't be use as a valid reasoning. Many people use etc. I already said this is a mainstream science thread where many here lack in occult knowledge. So I have no interest to explain myself to anyone with insufficient knowledge of occult & conspiracy subject. As this leads to major cognitive dissonance to those who lack intuitive thinking. You sound like a shill to me that vibrates on an energetic vampiric level.

You are not making a very good impression here Lyran.Sun. Mashika's question was very reasonable.
How and where did you learn this?
I add. What various whistleblowers ?
You do not sight your sources therefore your blabbering has no value.
Your reply to Mashika is very disrespectful and rude.

We do not allow this sort of behaviour on Avalon. If you value your membership, take more care with your expressions.

Mashika was the first to be rude. You sound alil biased to your treatment of members. I'm merely being honest on my assessment. I have the rights to suspect who are shills if i'm being attacked. Since I had faced many of them. I already mentioned this is a mainstream science thread didn't want to discuss occult topics here. My short comment above was just a joking comment. Ernie found the humor in it. I had no intentions to share occult informations on this thread. I shared sources on the other threads i participated in. Bill asked for details i gave it to him. Im used to be getting ganged up on & being wrongfully accused. I will reveal the whistleblowers only to Bill & the mods of Avalon in private. 1 of you could send me a pm. Exposing certain names in a forum where it could be seen by public would get me into trouble.

[Forest Denizen]

Sorry to interrupt but I feel like your reply is still missing to comply what Mr Bill asked,

I mean, you said this


The Nazis Thule society had retrieved many advanced tech blueprints etc from the abandoned atlantean base in Antarctica

How? Where? Where did you learned this from?

I feel like we should define this first before moving on to the other stuff on your comment


Also i hate 'etc' because it means nothing at all in the context of conversations such as this one :)

I mentioned it was informations from various whistleblowers. Your feelings can't be use as a valid reasoning. Many people use etc. I already said this is a mainstream science thread where many here lack in occult knowledge. So I have no interest to explain myself to anyone with insufficient knowledge of occult & conspiracy subject. As this leads to major cognitive dissonance to those who lack intuitive thinking. You sound like a shill to me that vibrates on an energetic vampiric level.

You are not making a very good impression here Lyran.Sun. Mashika's question was very reasonable.
How and where did you learn this?
I add. What various whistleblowers ?
You do not sight your sources therefore your blabbering has no value.
Your reply to Mashika is very disrespectful and rude.

We do not allow this sort of behaviour on Avalon. If you value your membership, take more care with your expressions.

Mashika was the first to be rude. You sound alil biased to your treatment of members. I'm merely being honest on my assessment. I have the rights to suspect who are shills if i'm being attacked. Since I had faced many of them. I already mentioned this is a mainstream science thread didn't want to discuss occult topics here. My short comment above was just a joking comment. Ernie found the humor in it. I had no intentions to share occult informations on this thread. I shared sources on the other threads i participated in. Bill asked for details i gave it to him. Im used to be getting ganged up on & being wrongfully accused. I will reveal the whistleblowers only to Bill & the mods of Avalon in private. 1 of you could send me a pm. Exposing certain names in a forum where it could be seen by public would get me into trouble.

Lyran.Sun, remember, first of all, that there are many scientists who are members here at Avalon, and many or most of those scientists are extremely well read and schooled in "occult," paranormal, alternative information. Many are "experiencers" of high strangeness as well. We commonly intersperse our threads here with science based, and alternative information based posts. They actually go hand in hand in almost every instance.

This is especially true given the fact that there has been a great deal of info over many decades, even millennia, that has been suppressed. Remember, if nothing else, the military industrial complex is always decades ahead of publicly available technology. This has led to a situation where there exists the, as you call it, mainstream scientific information stream available to the masses, and the parallel alternative information stream, much of it built around what whistleblowers have communicated. A lot of that information is likely credible and based on actual first-hand experience. A lot of the information is likely "disinformation" put out there to muddy the waters.

Avalon has an active group of researchers who do their best to suss out good info from bad info. A lot of folks here know what is/was good info and what is/was bad info. That is why we are sometimes asked to cite our sources. Do not take offense when asked from where you are getting your information. When speaking of information that one has learned through research, it is helpful to cite where you found that information. As opposed to, say, first hand experiencer type information.

I think you'll find the more open you are to dialogue with your fellow members here at Avalon, the richer and more rewarding your experience will be.

All my best to you and welcome to the forum.

[Lyran.Sun]

Sorry to interrupt but I feel like your reply is still missing to comply what Mr Bill asked,

I mean, you said this


The Nazis Thule society had retrieved many advanced tech blueprints etc from the abandoned atlantean base in Antarctica

How? Where? Where did you learned this from?

I feel like we should define this first before moving on to the other stuff on your comment


Also i hate 'etc' because it means nothing at all in the context of conversations such as this one :)

I mentioned it was informations from various whistleblowers. Your feelings can't be use as a valid reasoning. Many people use etc. I already said this is a mainstream science thread where many here lack in occult knowledge. So I have no interest to explain myself to anyone with insufficient knowledge of occult & conspiracy subject. As this leads to major cognitive dissonance to those who lack intuitive thinking. You sound like a shill to me that vibrates on an energetic vampiric level.

You are not making a very good impression here Lyran.Sun. Mashika's question was very reasonable.
How and where did you learn this?
I add. What various whistleblowers ?
You do not sight your sources therefore your blabbering has no value.
Your reply to Mashika is very disrespectful and rude.

We do not allow this sort of behaviour on Avalon. If you value your membership, take more care with your expressions.

Mashika was the first to be rude. You sound alil biased to your treatment of members. I'm merely being honest on my assessment. I have the rights to suspect who are shills if i'm being attacked. Since I had faced many of them. I already mentioned this is a mainstream science thread didn't want to discuss occult topics here. My short comment above was just a joking comment. Ernie found the humor in it. I had no intentions to share occult informations on this thread. I shared sources on the other threads i participated in. Bill asked for details i gave it to him. Im used to be getting ganged up on & being wrongfully accused. I will reveal the whistleblowers only to Bill & the mods of Avalon in private. 1 of you could send me a pm. Exposing certain names in a forum where it could be seen by public would get me into trouble.

Lyran.Sun, remember, first of all, that there are many scientists who are members here at Avalon, and many or most of those scientists are extremely well read and schooled in "occult," paranormal, alternative information. Many are "experiencers" of high strangeness as well. We commonly intersperse our threads here with science based, and alternative information based posts. They actually go hand in hand in almost every instance.

This is especially true given the fact that there has been a great deal of info over many decades, even millennia, that has been suppressed. Remember, if nothing else, the military industrial complex is always decades ahead of publicly available technology. This has led to a situation where there exists the, as you call it, mainstream scientific information stream available to the masses, and the parallel alternative information stream, much of it built around what whistleblowers have communicated. A lot of that information is likely credible and based on actual first-hand experience. A lot of the information is likely "disinformation" put out there to muddy the waters.

Avalon has an active group of researchers who do their best to suss out good info from bad info. A lot of folks here know what is/was good info and what is/was bad info. That is why we are sometimes asked to cite our sources. Do not take offense when asked from where you are getting your information. When speaking of information that one has learned through research, it is helpful to cite where you found that information. As opposed to, say, first hand experiencer type information.

I think you'll find the more open you are to dialogue with your fellow members here at Avalon, the richer and more rewarding your experience will be.

All my best to you and welcome to the forum.

Thank you brother that was well thought out & well explained. You sound very reasonable. Well I don't know how to continue with this thread to explain the infos i stated above. I never intended to talk about the Nazis here. Bill wanted details on my short comment i made. Im weary to call out certain whistleblowers & groups who had given out informations about the Nazis. I've been open to cite sources on the other threads.. I don't set beliefs I only set levels to what makes sense. If people have read my threads & my other comments on other threads they know I have good intentions.

[panpravda]

May I throw this little ditty in for consideration ...

Our Sun's Heliosphere is an electrically charged environment, hence, all of the the bodies that are located within that environment (planets, moons, asteroids, comets, meteoroids, space dust, etc.) will, depending on their physical locations relative to the Sun, take on their own specific level of electrical charge - i.e. there will exist an electrical charge (voltage) differential between all of these physical bodies, sometimes at levels well beyond what we normally think about, even hundreds of thousands of volts! What then do you think will happen if two of these bodies, especially the larger bodies, have a physical connection installed between them? Have you ever watched a fuse blow due to over-current? Think about the "Glowing Tether" that was the end result of the "Space Tether Experiment" back in 1996. That was where after a few miles of tether were deployed, it suddenly broke ... the subsequent tests done on the end-area of the tether, the location where it fractured, showed that the cause had been excessive electrical current! See the NASA report HERE (https://www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/wtether.html).


Bottom line ... the Space Tether idea is a non-starter ... in my opinion, of course.

[Mashika]

Well i'm sorry i bothered, you, i think the way you act speaks more about you than me

It's very pretentious of you to be honest


So I have no interest to explain myself to anyone with insufficient knowledge of occult & conspiracy subject.

So maybe you should not say anything at all, if you are going to look down into someone else just because she asked a couple questions


You sound like a shill to me that vibrates on an energetic vampiric level.

It's almost as if you were already predisposed to hating on me, i wonder why

If you feel people are lower than you then why even post something so lacking? If you did not want people to question then you should have been very clear or not post at all

That you immediately displayed hate and disdain just shows you are a bit toxic so i'm just going to ignore your insult and keep going. No point arguing over pointless emptiness

I think the solution is very simple, if you can't talk about it or answer questions then simply don't post about it and expect people to somehow give you praise or respect you. What's the point of posting something then rejecting people who ask questions about it?

[Lyran.Sun]

Well i'm sorry i bothered, you, i think the way you act speaks more about you than me

It's very pretentious of you to be honest


So I have no interest to explain myself to anyone with insufficient knowledge of occult & conspiracy subject.

So maybe you should not say anything at all, if you are going to look down into someone else just because she asked a couple questions


You sound like a shill to me that vibrates on an energetic vampiric level.

It's almost as if you were already predisposed to hating on me, i wonder why

If you feel people are lower than you then why even post something so lacking? If you did not want people to question then you should have been very clear or not post at all

That you immediately displayed hate and disdain just shows you are a bit toxic so i'm just going to ignore your insult and keep going. No point arguing over pointless emptiness

I think the solution is very simple, if you can't talk about it or answer questions then simply don't post about it and expect people to somehow give you praise or respect you. What's the point of posting something then rejecting people who ask questions about it?

Alright fair enough. I'm sorry if I sounded unreasonable. My short comment was meant in a joking manner. I never expected anyone to follow up. I wanted to be respectful to Bill so I gave him the infos. Was very relunctant to expose the whistleblowers & groups. I have been researching the cabal & their dark agendas for years I know how they function. Talking about occult Nazis stuffs is very sensitive in modern times especially of the far left propaganda run by the mainstream media today. I'm a TI. Which means my life is more at risk compared to lay people. I had to deal with numerous shills online. So I'm sorry if I suspected you as one. If you are interested to expand your knowledge in the occult. I could create new threads with proper sources so more new learners could get easy access. Its not easy researching in the deep jungle of the occult world & many of those infos are mixed with disinfos, the propaganda of the cabal is to dumb down the masses & lead them to spoonfeed on the lies they give to them in mainstream studies all that.

[Bill Ryan]

I wanted to be respectful to Bill so I gave him the infos. Was very reluctant to expose the whistleblowers & groups. A couple of points here!


I've not received any info, as best I can see. Just send me a PM (Private Message). I'd be happy to read it.
If the 'whistleblowers' are Corey Goode and his group, anything he says (or they say) can be disregarded.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Quiz...

Who said: "To the moon, Alice."?

[Mashika]

Well i'm sorry i bothered, you, i think the way you act speaks more about you than me

It's very pretentious of you to be honest


So I have no interest to explain myself to anyone with insufficient knowledge of occult & conspiracy subject.

So maybe you should not say anything at all, if you are going to look down into someone else just because she asked a couple questions


You sound like a shill to me that vibrates on an energetic vampiric level.

It's almost as if you were already predisposed to hating on me, i wonder why

If you feel people are lower than you then why even post something so lacking? If you did not want people to question then you should have been very clear or not post at all

That you immediately displayed hate and disdain just shows you are a bit toxic so i'm just going to ignore your insult and keep going. No point arguing over pointless emptiness

I think the solution is very simple, if you can't talk about it or answer questions then simply don't post about it and expect people to somehow give you praise or respect you. What's the point of posting something then rejecting people who ask questions about it?

Alright fair enough. I'm sorry if I sounded unreasonable. My short comment was meant in a joking manner. I never expected anyone to follow up. I wanted to be respectful to Bill so I gave him the infos. Was very relunctant to expose the whistleblowers & groups. I have been researching the cabal & their dark agendas for years I know how they function. Talking about occult Nazis stuffs is very sensitive in modern times especially of the far left propaganda run by the mainstream media today. I'm a TI. Which means my life is more at risk compared to lay people. I had to deal with numerous shills online. So I'm sorry if I suspected you as one. If you are interested to expand your knowledge in the occult. I could create new threads with proper sources so more new learners could get easy access. Its not easy researching in the deep jungle of the occult world & many of those infos are mixed with disinfos, the propaganda of the cabal is to dumb down the masses & lead them to spoonfeed on the lies they give to them in mainstream studies all that.



Was very relunctant to expose the whistleblowers & groups.

Do you realize, that if you are privy to some information and you just even talk about it to get street credit on a forum, you potentially just killed your sources?

As info is compartmentalized, everyone gets a slightly different story, tainted enough so that it can be tracked back to a single department or even a single person

So the best option is to zip it good :)



I have been researching the cabal & their dark agendas for years I know how they function. Talking about occult Nazis stuffs is very sensitive in modern times especially of the far left propaganda run by the mainstream media today. I'm a TI. Which means my life is more at risk compared to lay people.

I could say the same and you would have no way to know if i'm being true or not, but if i had inner knowledge about this the last thing i would do is to go post on forums about it, even if it's like a slight mention of it. So this may be a big mistake on your part, just saying you know?



I had to deal with numerous shills online. So I'm sorry if I suspected you as one. If you are interested to expand your knowledge in the occult. I could create new threads with proper sources so more new learners could get easy access. Its not easy researching in the deep jungle of the occult world & many of those infos are mixed with disinfos, the propaganda of the cabal is to dumb down the masses & lead them to spoonfeed on the lies they give to them in mainstream studies all that.

I think that if you want to talk about things that you know about, this would be the best site for it, in the end it will depend on all members to query and investigate if you have something that moves them to research and wonder


This is so far offtopic now, see what happens? Weren't we talking about a space elevator to the moon and then your comment lead into this?

cabal & their dark agendas.. But this was more like a technical conversation about how to build an elevator to the moon, with human tech and current/near future knowledge....


<3

[Lyran.Sun]

Quiz...

Who said: "To the moon, Alice."?

98qw86DsdZ0 I had to Google I've not seen this. Well one 50s era sitcom I saw was I love Lucy.. Ai yi yi!

[Lyran.Sun]

Well i'm sorry i bothered, you, i think the way you act speaks more about you than me

It's very pretentious of you to be honest


So I have no interest to explain myself to anyone with insufficient knowledge of occult & conspiracy subject.

So maybe you should not say anything at all, if you are going to look down into someone else just because she asked a couple questions


You sound like a shill to me that vibrates on an energetic vampiric level.

It's almost as if you were already predisposed to hating on me, i wonder why

If you feel people are lower than you then why even post something so lacking? If you did not want people to question then you should have been very clear or not post at all

That you immediately displayed hate and disdain just shows you are a bit toxic so i'm just going to ignore your insult and keep going. No point arguing over pointless emptiness

I think the solution is very simple, if you can't talk about it or answer questions then simply don't post about it and expect people to somehow give you praise or respect you. What's the point of posting something then rejecting people who ask questions about it?

Alright fair enough. I'm sorry if I sounded unreasonable. My short comment was meant in a joking manner. I never expected anyone to follow up. I wanted to be respectful to Bill so I gave him the infos. Was very relunctant to expose the whistleblowers & groups. I have been researching the cabal & their dark agendas for years I know how they function. Talking about occult Nazis stuffs is very sensitive in modern times especially of the far left propaganda run by the mainstream media today. I'm a TI. Which means my life is more at risk compared to lay people. I had to deal with numerous shills online. So I'm sorry if I suspected you as one. If you are interested to expand your knowledge in the occult. I could create new threads with proper sources so more new learners could get easy access. Its not easy researching in the deep jungle of the occult world & many of those infos are mixed with disinfos, the propaganda of the cabal is to dumb down the masses & lead them to spoonfeed on the lies they give to them in mainstream studies all that.



Was very relunctant to expose the whistleblowers & groups.

Do you realize, that if you are privy to some information and you just even talk about it to get street credit on a forum, you potentially just killed your sources?

As info is compartmentalized, everyone gets a slightly different story, tainted enough so that it can be tracked back to a single department or even a single person

So the best option is to zip it good :)



I have been researching the cabal & their dark agendas for years I know how they function. Talking about occult Nazis stuffs is very sensitive in modern times especially of the far left propaganda run by the mainstream media today. I'm a TI. Which means my life is more at risk compared to lay people.

I could say the same and you would have no way to know if i'm being true or not, but if i had inner knowledge about this the last thing i would do is to go post on forums about it, even if it's like a slight mention of it. So this may be a big mistake on your part, just saying you know?



I had to deal with numerous shills online. So I'm sorry if I suspected you as one. If you are interested to expand your knowledge in the occult. I could create new threads with proper sources so more new learners could get easy access. Its not easy researching in the deep jungle of the occult world & many of those infos are mixed with disinfos, the propaganda of the cabal is to dumb down the masses & lead them to spoonfeed on the lies they give to them in mainstream studies all that.

I think that if you want to talk about things that you know about, this would be the best site for it, in the end it will depend on all members to query and investigate if you have something that moves them to research and wonder


This is so far offtopic now, see what happens? Weren't we talking about a space elevator to the moon and then your comment lead into this?

cabal & their dark agendas.. But this was more like a technical conversation about how to build an elevator to the moon, with human tech and current/near future knowledge....


<3

Yeah I was wrong to assume since I felt I was being attacked.

Yes there's this thing called the streisand effect. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect .. well I was daunted to share occult infos on a science thread. Ken kindly explained alot to me. So I'm more open to discuss now.

BTW anyone who wants the whistleblowers & groups all that I gave to the chief Bill. Maybe y'all could get it from him that's if he wants to & not pass them of as wild theories & informations all that jibber jabba

[Lyran.Sun]

I hope I didn't ruin the mood of this thread & hopefully OP don't feel disrespected. Meanwhile in an alternate universe.
f20BLJGHNXY

[Frank V]

Quiz...

Who said: "To the moon, Alice."?

98qw86DsdZ0 I had to Google I've not seen this. Well one 50s era sitcom I saw was I love Lucy.. Ai yi yi!


Perhaps not known to too many people in this day and age, but Desilu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desilu_Productions), the production company started by Lucille Ball and her husband Desi Arnaz, was instrumental in the success of the original Star Trek franchise. ;)

[Lyran.Sun]

Quiz...

Who said: "To the moon, Alice."?

98qw86DsdZ0 I had to Google I've not seen this. Well one 50s era sitcom I saw was I love Lucy.. Ai yi yi!


Perhaps not known to too many people in this day and age, but Desilu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desilu_Productions), the production company started by Lucille Ball and her husband Desi Arnaz, was instrumental in the success of the original Star Trek franchise. ;)

Nice one bro didn't know that. \\//

[Star Tsar]

Charlie & The Great Glass Elevator

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/CharlieGlassCover1972.jpg/220px-CharlieGlassCover1972.jpg

The story picks up where the previous book left off, with Charlie and family aboard the flying Great Glass Elevator. The Elevator accidentally goes into orbit, and Mr. Wonka docks them at the Space Hotel USA. Their interception of the hotel is mistaken by approaching astronauts and listeners on Earth (including the President of the United States) as an act of space piracy and they are variously accused of being enemy agents, spies and aliens. Shortly after their arrival, they discover that the hotel has been overrun by dangerous, shape-changing alien monsters known as The Vermicious Knids. The Knids cannot resist showing off and reveal themselves by using the five hotel elevators (with one Knid in each of them) and spell out the word "SCRAM", giving the group time to evacuate. Charlie suggests towing the Shuttle back to Earth, and in the process the Knids are incinerated in Earth's atmosphere. Mr. Wonka releases the Shuttle, and the Elevator crashes down through the roof of the chocolate factory.

Taken from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_and_the_Great_Glass_Elevator

[Star Tsar]

A valid question...


Real Engineering

Are Space Elevators Possible?

Published 18th July 2020

Xa_xteu_Mts

[TommyJ]

The space elevator was predicted back in 1895. In some form, it is definitely possible. Let's say for the ISS this would mean a significant reduction in the cost of maintenance. According to preliminary calculations, such an elevator would reduce the cost of shipping goods to $ 100 per kg.
And this elevator is pretty easy to imagine for the layman. But what is the practical meaning of the space elevator to the Moon? How can this be explained in simple language?

[Karen (Geophyz)]

The space elevator was predicted back in 1895. In some form, it is definitely possible. Let's say for the ISS this would mean a significant reduction in the cost of maintenance. According to preliminary calculations, such an elevator would reduce the cost of shipping goods to $ 100 per kg.
And this elevator is pretty easy to imagine for the layman. But what is the practical meaning of the space elevator to the Moon? How can this be explained in simple language?

Just thinking about the physics behind this I cannot imagine it is possible. The moon is 238,855 miles away from the earth. The Earth rotates and not always at the same velocity. There is a huge amount of space junk orbiting the earth and then we haven't even discussed meteorites.....

[Bill Ryan]

The moon is 238,855 miles away from the earth.And that varies by a lot! 238,855 miles is the mean ("average") distance. The maximum and minimum distances are 252,088 miles and 225,623 miles. (That's quite some vertical movement required for the top floor of any elevator)

:)

[Bluegreen]

The space elevator was predicted back in 1895.


The space elevator was also predicted back in 800 BC

https://newchristianbiblestudy.org/bible/storytext/jacobs-ladder/king-james-version


http://imgc.artprintimages.com/img/print/jacob-s-ladder_u-l-pg4joy0.jpg?h=550&p=0&w=550&background=fbfbfb
;)

[Ernie Nemeth]

There is a book I once read called The Integral Trees, by Larry Niven. Although it is not quite the same concept, it does illustrate the concept of Coriolis forces (lost my right click button on mouse, have to look up spelling in dictionary, pain in the butt). The trees were shaped like the Integral sign, which made them stand and face the direction of motion, these trees had no roots but were flying through a region between two, not planets but large masses, engulfed in giant floating bubbles of air. It was a book about Lagrange points, regions where gravity is cancelled by two or more competing bodies.

With a space elevator it is one of these Lagrangian points that must be reached for the elevator to have stability. There are many such points around the Earth. The elevator must reach that point and then extend an equal amount beyond that point. For the moon and Earth, this point is very close to the moon, as a guess I'd say about 208,000 miles away or about 50,000 miles from the surface of the moon. So for the elevator to have stability it would have to extend beyond the moon by 150,000 miles...I don't think the dynamics work because if an elevator was not of equal length from the Lagrangian point of earth/moon then there would be torsion forces to worry about and not just the weight of the elevator. Those would tear the thing to pieces in short order.

That is what happened to the trees in the book that somehow wandered too far from the Lagrangian point, anyway.

[TommyJ]

The space elevator was predicted back in 1895. In some form, it is definitely possible. Let's say for the ISS this would mean a significant reduction in the cost of maintenance. According to preliminary calculations, such an elevator would reduce the cost of shipping goods to $ 100 per kg.
And this elevator is pretty easy to imagine for the layman. But what is the practical meaning of the space elevator to the Moon? How can this be explained in simple language?

Just thinking about the physics behind this I cannot imagine it is possible. The moon is 238,855 miles away from the earth. The Earth rotates and not always at the same velocity. There is a huge amount of space junk orbiting the earth and then we haven't even discussed meteorites.....

Yes, you are right that at the moment it seems impossible. Nevertheless, scientists have proposed a design from the orbit of the Earth to the orbit of the Moon. In fact, such a design is possible with the right material. Now they propose to use composite nanotubes for the construction of a cable. It is in the form of a cable connecting two orbits that scientists now imagine the space elevator.
And yes, as you said - the two biggest problems with the material you need are strength and lightness.
But it's still an idea that can lead scientists to something useful. That can be used for other purposes.

[Karen (Geophyz)]

The space elevator was predicted back in 1895. In some form, it is definitely possible. Let's say for the ISS this would mean a significant reduction in the cost of maintenance. According to preliminary calculations, such an elevator would reduce the cost of shipping goods to $ 100 per kg.
And this elevator is pretty easy to imagine for the layman. But what is the practical meaning of the space elevator to the Moon? How can this be explained in simple language?

Just thinking about the physics behind this I cannot imagine it is possible. The moon is 238,855 miles away from the earth. The Earth rotates and not always at the same velocity. There is a huge amount of space junk orbiting the earth and then we haven't even discussed meteorites.....

Yes, you are right that at the moment it seems impossible. Nevertheless, scientists have proposed a design from the orbit of the Earth to the orbit of the Moon. In fact, such a design is possible with the right material. Now they propose to use composite nanotubes for the construction of a cable. It is in the form of a cable connecting two orbits that scientists now imagine the space elevator.
And yes, as you said - the two biggest problems with the material you need are strength and lightness.
But it's still an idea that can lead scientists to something useful. That can be used for other purposes.

I would not rule out the possibility in the far distant future. There are many obstacles to overcome. The Chandler wobble, carrying enough oxygen to get a person or persons the entire distance, and the sheer distance, how fast would you be travelling? At apogee the moon is farther away so the elevator would have to stretch and shrink at perigee. That is just a few of the issues that I would foresee, and space junk or meteors or other ships travelling in the area.