How to prepare for a CME in the European theatre

[samvado]

What is a CME? look here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?540-%28Scientific%29-Evidence-for-What-s-Coming&p=9451#post9451)

1) Water supply in Cites will be cut
2) food supply will last few days
3) TV, radio + Phone wont work
4) Gas MAY be available for a SHORT while (a day or two at the most)
5) Cars WILL operate, public transport will NOT

Sluggish masses will be waiting for rescue 2-3 days I guess, until water runs out.
So get where you plan to go within that time.

NOW: where to go ??

I vote for Spain, the north-western part.

From Hamburg thats 2.5 Tkm or ca. 4 days. I use a motorcycle, if possible a diesel (easier to get fuel) and they use much less (about 2.5 l/100).
One could just carry the fuel for the entire trip.

I would be VERY VERY helpfull if a group could agree on a meeting point in the target area. It will have among other advantages a powerful psychological effect to reach there thru adverse conditions. "Emissaries" of the group could also store certain provisions there to help thru the initial period.
All for small cash. At the moment land in Spain is very cheap because Spain has a crisis much like the USA.
This setup could be very small (a rented cottage) or large (a few acres with a building).

I would consider it as insurance to invest in such a plan. in the "worst case" nothing happens and I own a piece of spain ...

[Swami]

The Swami is flying with you Sir.....

[bashi]

What is a CME? look here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?540-%28Scientific%29-Evidence-for-What-s-Coming&p=9451#post9451)

1) Water supply in Cites will be cut
2) food supply will last few days
3) TV, radio + Phone wont work
4) Gas MAY be available for a SHORT while (a day or two at the most)
5) Cars WILL operate, public transport will NOT

Sluggish masses will be waiting for rescuer 2-3 days I guess, until water runs out.
So get where you plan to go within that time.

NOW: where to go ??

I vote for Spain, the north-western part.

From Hamburg thats 2.5 Tkm or ca. 4 days. I use a motorcycle, if possible a diesel (easier to get fuel) and they use much less (about 2.5 l/100).
One could just carry the fuel for the entire trip.

(more soon, gotta go for a bit)

I vote for the Northern Alps/Austria
With a cave nearby, off touristic interests
Will take a diesel transporter with:
Bikes inside
Food for a year
Solar panels/LEDs/rechageable batteries
Medical supply, MMS
Tents, sleeping bags, iron pots etc. just all the stuff you can imagine

.

[Swami]

Well I dont give a ****, as long as we have a safehaven.

Maybe its wise to make inventarisations off what each individual allready has collected.....???

[samvado]

I vote for the Northern Alps/Austria
With a cave nearby, off touristic interests
Will take a diesel transporter with:
Bikes inside
Food for a year
Solar panels/LEDs/rechageable batteries
Medical supply, MMS
Tents, sleeping bags, iron pots etc. just all the stuff you can imagine

Much speaks for Austria, not the least the language :-)
clean water too, friendly people and much shorter trip to get there

BUT

should the weather change , which is also due, it will be very cold very soon. and even now you have only one vegetation period per year in nature. in spain you have 3.
also: a lot of people live in the surrounding area, especially to the east, who may want what you have and have weapons (ex-war-zone) (same in spain but not nearly as much)

[MorningSong]

For those who might need to know:

I am in the italian alps, 2km from the swiss border, 600km above sea level, town population 1,200 (not touristic at all although it is on a main road into switzerland) and am well prepared to live without electricity (mentally, at least). I do still have some wrinkles to iron out but the place is livable. This area is also pretty calm for EQ's.

[samvado]

600km above sea level,.

you're in a mothership ??????

[samvado]

I am in the italian alps, 2km from the swiss border, 600km above sea level, town population 1,200 (not touristic at all although it is on a main road into switzerland) and am well prepared to live without electricity (mentally, at least). I do still have some wrinkles to iron out but the place is livable. This area is also pretty calm for EQ's.

Hi there, well, in Swizerland literally everbody has a gun. meant for self-defense but who knows. 2 km is NOT a safe distance if you have what they want.
and the swiss have ALLWAYS been isolationistic during crisis to the point of being paranoid in the past. They didnt even let the jews in during the second world war full well knowing what was going to happen to them. So you have a paranoid misantropic neighbor, armed to the teeth. Congrats. Not my cup of tea ;-)

and how is it earthquake safe? the entire alps are not safe. how far to the vesuv?

[yiolas]

Great thread Sam. Wish I could join you guys, but my household includes elderly parents and adult children, plus I live on an island.
I hope you guys make it ! Patrick Gerald did say that the mountains in Spain are a safe place .
Why do you say that cars will work ? I've read everywhere that the batteries will be fried.
Can you please explain.

[MorningSong]

Opps...:fish:...sorry for the typo...hehehe...it would be nice, though, wouldn't it...on a mothership, that is...

@Sam:
I guess you'd just have to know exactly where I am to judge.... but, about the Swiss, most are not gun toters...my brother-in-law does his yearly military service with the fire brigade....toting fire hoses...

I must be here for a reason. I could have gone back home (USA) many times, but I'm still here.

[Swami]

you're in a mothership ??????

Mwahahahaha

I heard the Sierra Nevada un Spain would be a sagehaven
http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=nl&q=Nationaal+park+Sierra+Nevada,+Andalusi%C3%AB&sll=37.978845,-1.120605&sspn=8.968001,16.765137&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FfguNgIdgdDP_w&split=0&hq=&hnear=Nationaal+park+Sierra+Nevada&ll=37.09024,-3.153076&spn=4.53906,8.382568&t=p&z=7

I'm in contact with somebody who will go there shortly, this place
http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=nl&geocode=&q=Murcia,+Spain&sll=52.469397,5.509644&sspn=3.467189,8.382568&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Murcia,+Spanje&ll=37.770715,-1.120605&spn=2.249187,4.191284&t=p&z=8

As far as I understood she will be on a camping there. It could be a good place to camp out and work from. It pretty close to the mountains. She told there were caves overthere.

I dont know whether it is EQ-resistant, but the Sierra Nevada are pretty old mountains ....

End of this week I'll hear if my contract (work) will be ended or not.
I'm planning to sell my house and buy an old Landrover or Mitsubitsu Landcruiser, these cars will hold pretty long. The rest of the money I want to invest in other stuff.
Already got some waterfilters, I can distil water to make collodial silver, got the equipment to do it. Got me a small amount of MMS1.

I'm working in the supplying of fishingvessels. I can buy stuff fairly cheap, like dry batteries, generators, shackles, chains, fishingnets ropes, (MMS2? > I think we have bucket of 10 kg's in store right ow. Have to check if its the right stuff. Its Calcium Hypochlorite but I dont know if theres any additives in it, I'm no chemist. Have made a couple of photo's and will put them in a thread this evening.) solarequipment, etc.
I'm in contact with farmers where I live. I could arrange an amount of wheatseeds.
I'm in contact with logistics guys so transportation cant be to diffucult to arrange.
Got me a very small unsinkable boat (Carolina Skiff) on a trailer. Dont know if its handy to take something like that....??

I got loads of fishing equipment (rods, hooks, lines, lead, reels, etc.). I can make/braid fishingnet. Got me a box of gaintraps and food for a year.....

So far till now, your opinions please.........

[Swami]

@Bashi:

What kind and what amount of diodes do we need. I know the basic principles of electronics.
I bought me an old Lister 1 cil. dieselengine. I need to overhaul it. Wanted to equip it with a PMG (permanent magnet generator). Havent had the time to do it yet.

[samvado]

Patrick Gerald did say that the mountains in Spain are a safe place .


who is he?



Why do you say that cars will work ? I've read everywhere that the batteries will be fried.
Can you please explain.

according to Bashi, our expert, the CME scenario will not fry anything that isnt attached to long cables.
and electronics because they are very very sensible.

so cars should be ok, the older ones anyway.
get a diesel, it runs totally without electricity if its an old one without injection (dunno what its called in english, its wirbelkammer in german)
also: after the CME regular gas will slowly run out, diesel can always be substituted by plant oils.
also: you can slavage it from trucks that are left to rot. they have huge tanks, ships too and finaly the oil you burn in your heater (if you heat with oil) - all that lets your diesel car run.

[samvado]

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[samvado]

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[samvado]

I heard the Sierra Nevada un Spain would be a sagehaven

I'm in contact with somebody who will go there shortly, this place

IMO both places are too densly populated and a bit too low for my taste.

I was thinking more along these lines:

http://maps.google.de/maps?ll=42.768583,-7.2571247&z=14&t=h&hl=de

Its near the "Jacobs trail" - the famous pilgrim path thru spain.

[samvado]

So, how to proceed?

I suggest:

1) Make the idea known that a CME is a likely scenario (how? where? languages?)
2) Explain the "route to relative safety"
3) explain for what other scenarios this may also (partially) help, e.g. a monetary meltdown, the galactic superwave, the next iceage, vitam-D3 deficiency etc. pp.
4) explain IT WILL BE FUN
5) Collect money to purchase small piece of land with booth or small house
6) Discuss best means of transportation, e.g. diesel-cycles (from india - enfield taurus)
7) set up the target facility (stock seeds and spares)
8) get everybody a hard-copy map how-to-get-there
9) discuss what everybody should bring (minimum required)
10) anjoy life until event-x hits us and/or spend your vacation at 7)

just my 2 cents ...

[Swami]

IMO both places are too densly populated and a bit too low for my taste.

I was thinking more along these lines:

http://maps.google.de/maps?ll=42.768583,-7.2571247&z=14&t=h&hl=de

Its near the "Jacobs trail" - the famous pilgrim path thru spain.

Cool with me, others....?

[Swami]

who is he?



according to Bashi, our expert, the CME scenario will not fry anything that isnt attached to long cables.
and electronics because they are very very sensible.

so cars should be ok, the older ones anyway.
get a diesel, it runs totally without electricity if its an old one without injection (dunno what its called in english, its wirbelkammer in german)
also: after the CME regular gas will slowly run out, diesel can always be substituted by plant oils.
also: you can slavage it from trucks that are left to rot. they have huge tanks, ships too and finaly the oil you burn in your heater (if you heat with oil) - all that lets your diesel car run.

We need sunflowerseeds and hempseeds.....

Oil we can make with this machine

http://www.piteba.com/

I am a mecanic (ships to 3000 Kw) so converting dieselengines to PVO (pure vegetable oil) shouldn't be a problem......

[bashi]

For those who might need to know:

I am in the italian alps, 2km from the swiss border, 600km above sea level, town population 1,200 (not touristic at all although it is on a main road into switzerland) and am well prepared to live without electricity (mentally, at least). I do still have some wrinkles to iron out but the place is livable. This area is also pretty calm for EQ's.

Sounds good to me. Are you living in Italy or Switzerland?

[bashi]

@Bashi:

What kind and what amount of diodes do we need. I know the basic principles of electronics.
I bought me an old Lister 1 cil. dieselengine. I need to overhaul it. Wanted to equip it with a PMG (permanent magnet generator). Havent had the time to do it yet.

LED: Use minimum 60 degree angle for the light cone; use 3200 light , not 6000k ; dont go over 1 watt per diode; try to use ones which are integrated into any protective housing (alu) ; seal that with silicon
Danger is that somebody will connect the wrong poles, so you attach a AC rectifier bridge, which protects against this. a zener-diode of overvoltage together with a fuse will round everything up
Some garden-lights are just great: waterproof, fuse, polarity protected
LED strips are very good, check car assessoirs

.

[bashi]

Cool with me, others....?
The forum is not stable today.
we have to consider that there will be no electricity. any destination which is more that 10-20 hours drive is too far; any route which goes through larger towns had to be discarded; towns/cities are a no-go (caos/traffic-jam); any route with longer tunnels have to be discarded: they will be closed, because of no ventilation.[COLOR="red"]

[samvado]

[SIZE="3"][COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]any destination which is more that 10-20 hours drive is too far; any route which goes through larger towns had to be discarded; towns/cities are a no-go (caos/traffic-jam); any route with longer tunnels have to be discarded: they will be closed, because of no ventilation.

I beg to differ:

1.) All Autobahn will be free (or mostly free) the first 48-maybe even 60 hours while the mass of people wait at home for "news" or rescue. Very few will travel in such insecure times unless they must (thats before the panic).
2.) although gas may not be available in the usual ways, if you can barter some small item of use ( a pocket-knife or somesuch) you may well get it from the truck drivers, thats why diesel is so important. we are talking the first 60 hours when panic has not yet started.
4.) in 60 hours if you ride with average 80 km/h which should be possible you will get from any point in Europe to the location I proposed in Spain.
You just cant sleep much - but for 2 nights 4 hours sleep should do. I have been going 2000 km without rest before on a bike.
5.) from Hamburg to spain you dont have to go thru tunnels (you may, but you need not). I guess thats true for most locations.
I have driven this stretch at least 10 times in my life. no tunnels, no big cities. all cities are circumvented up until you reach barcelona.

[bashi]

I beg to differ:

1.) All Autobahn will be free (or mostly free) the first 48-maybe even 60 hours while the mass of people wait at home for "news" or rescue. Very few will travel in such insecure times unless they must (thats before the panic).
2.) although gas may not be available in the usual ways, if you can barter some small item of use ( a pocket-knife or somesuch) you may well get it from the truck drivers, thats why diesel is so important. we are talking the first 60 hours when panic has not yet started.
4.) in 60 hours if you ride with average 80 km/h which should be possible you will get from any point in Europe to the location I proposed in Spain.
You just cant sleep much - but for 2 nights 4 hours sleep should do. I have been going 2000 km without rest before on a bike.
5.) from Hamburg to spain you dont have to go thru tunnels (you may, but you need not). I guess thats true for most locations.

you are right about the 48 hours. but there will be no police or tow-trucks to remove any vehicle which broke down. just one, which crashed into anopther that had stopped because the petrolstations are also not working. how many peolpe just now are on the autobahn, which are relying to get fuel at the stations direct there? Many
so i think you will have to reduce the radius to less than 1000 km radius in order to have a good chance to get through to the destination.

.

[bashi]

best would be to get started before even the power cuts, but that would be very difficult to determine.

[bashi]

Great thread Sam. Wish I could join you guys, but my household includes elderly parents and adult children, plus I live on an island.
I hope you guys make it ! Patrick Gerald did say that the mountains in Spain are a safe place .
Why do you say that cars will work ? I've read everywhere that the batteries will be fried.
Can you please explain.

There is one thread about EMP effects, starts here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?540-(Scientific)-Evidence-for-What-s-Coming&p=9415&viewfull=1#post9415

[samvado]

you are right about the 48 hours. but there will be no police or tow-trucks to remove any vehicle which broke down. just one, which crashed into anopther that had stopped because the petrolstations are also not working. how many peolpe just now are on the autobahn, which are relying to get fuel at the stations direct there? Many
so i think you will have to reduce the radius to less than 1000 km radius in order to have a good chance to get through to the destination.


I guess we wont agree on that then. I ride a bike, cars crashed or stopped on the autobahn are not a problem. and I dont think it will be chaos there. Most people will hurry home when the effects starts to seep thru, like no radio, no lights (if at night). They wont stay at the autobahn. so its the best free-way in the sense of the word.

In any case: I want to get to spain - thats more important then cutting on travel time. I would even prefer spain if I had to WALK.
If you can sustain yourself in austria - great. I want SECURE & WARM & FOOD. and that is spelled S P A I N.

Also: realize why I emphazise a BIKE instead of a 4-wheeler. With a 4-wheeler you need at least ONE free track at all times, and THAT is hard to guarantee in such circumstances. Jump on a 2-wheeler and you are all set.

If you prepare you dont need to bring much - if you dont prepare you almost dont even have to start.

[Swami]

Matbe its wise to look were everybody is and how to get in contact wjth each other in case of emergency. I think "plans" will change along the way during periods of emergency. Most important is to work in groups...

Sam has to come from Hamburg, Me I live in the Southwest of the Netherlands couple of hundred meters from the waterfront. Bashi is in th UK (I presume?)
Others who want to join "our"group...?

Right now I'm "able" to store 340 liters of Diesel in external cans and barrels. Times 10 km per liter gives me a radius of 3400 kilometers.

The car I drive now is up 15 km per litre of diesel which brings me to Africa if I want to but I want something stronger for them mountains.....(and pull/push away other cars in case of emergency)

[samvado]

Matbe its wise to look were everybody is and how to get in contact wjth each other in case of emergency. I think "plans" will change along the way during periods of emergency. Most important is to work in groups...

Sam has to come from Hamburg, Me I live in the Southwest of the Netherlands couple of hundred meters from the waterfront. Bashi is in th UK (I presume?)
Others who want to join "our"group...?

Right now I'm "able" to store 340 liters of Diesel in external cans and barrels. Times 10 km per liter gives me a radius of 3400 kilometers.

The car I drive now is up 15 km per litre of diesel which brings me to Africa if I want to but I want something stronger for them mountains.....(and pull/push away other cars in case of emergency)

I agree on the group thing to be most important. Consider letting go of the vehicle though. I have a big camper (VW LT 40) but I wont go with that one. One blocked road and its over unless you can divert, which may or may not be possible on a autobahn. we all have to leave stuff behind, I suggest everybody takes a hard look at using anything with more than 2 wheels.

If this group grows to any size and if we all agree on bikes we could probably send a person to india and collect a few enfields real cheap. They are fun to ride too (http://m31.de/enfield/english/trip2002.html)

I realize this thread is NOT shown on the sidebar of the main threads which is a shame, thats propably why we are so "private" here.

[bashi]

I agree on the group thing to be most important. Consider letting go of the vehicle though. I have a big camper (VW LT 40) but I wont go with that one. One blocked road and its over unless you can divert, which may or may not be possible on a autobahn. we all have to leave stuff behind, I suggest everybody takes a hard look at using anything with more than 2 wheels.

If this group grows to any size and if we all agree on bikes we could probably send a person to india and collect a few enfields real cheap. They are fun to ride too (http://m31.de/enfield/english/trip2002.html)

I realize this thread is NOT shown on the sidebar of the main threads which is a shame, thats propably why we are so "private" here.

Is the LT40 diesel?
When I was 16 years old, i was sitting on a bike behind and had a very serious accident. That cured me of riding a bike. So i do not have even a licence. Even if i would try to make one, my skills driving a motorbike would not be enough for a emergency rush down trip to spain. I would slow you only down, because i would not be able to drive fast and will need many stops. Wouldnt it be better to go in convoy bike + LT40/transporter ?

[Wood]

I am wondering why have you picked that particular area in north-western Spain? I am living in Madrid and I have considered that area as well. A few days ago I found an ad selling a few houses and lots of land a bit southern to the area you mention. I was considering whether to buy it or not but I think if a major catastrophe happens either chaos arises and land property is not a concern anymore or a sort of 'martial law' is established. I believe surviving is going to be tied to forming communities and helping people, not about going alone with a gun.

Here is the ad, google-translated to english:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=es&ie=UTF-8&sl=es&tl=en&u=http://www.segundamano.es/orense/poblado-de-ingenieros/a18231465/%3Fca%3D32_s%26st%3Da%26c%3D60&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhiPVepZkaHn0l3AmDEvXKbR20gJcQ

EDIT: sorry, apparently the translation is not working properly, the page keeps reloading.

[bashi]

I heard the Sierra Nevada un Spain would be a sagehaven
http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=q&sourc...382568&t=p&z=7

I'm in contact with somebody who will go there shortly, this place
http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=q&sourc...191284&t=p&z=8

As far as I understood she will be on a camping there. It could be a good place to camp out and work from. It pretty close to the mountains. She told there were caves overthere.

I dont know whether it is EQ-resistant, but the Sierra Nevada are pretty old mountains ....

End of this week I'll hear if my contract (work) will be ended or not.
I'm planning to sell my house and buy an old Landrover or Mitsubitsu Landcruiser, these cars will hold pretty long. The rest of the money I want to invest in other stuff.
Already got some waterfilters, I can distil water to make collodial silver, got the equipment to do it. Got me a small amount of MMS1.

I'm working in the supplying of fishingvessels. I can buy stuff fairly cheap, like dry batteries, generators, shackles, chains, fishingnets ropes, (MMS2? > I think we have bucket of 10 kg's in store right ow. Have to check if its the right stuff. Its Calcium Hypochlorite but I dont know if theres any additives in it, I'm no chemist. Have made a couple of photo's and will put them in a thread this evening.) solarequipment, etc.
I'm in contact with farmers where I live. I could arrange an amount of wheatseeds.
I'm in contact with logistics guys so transportation cant be to diffucult to arrange.
Got me a very small unsinkable boat (Carolina Skiff) on a trailer. Dont know if its handy to take something like that....??

I got loads of fishing equipment (rods, hooks, lines, lead, reels, etc.). I can make/braid fishingnet. Got me a box of gaintraps and food for a year.....

So far till now, your opinions please.........

I think you will have to go into areas where just few people live. With lots of trees and fresh water. The main problem in case of prolonged cut of electricity will be other people. Guys which are unprepared and will struggle to survive by ALL means.
I don`t want to create bad vibes, but i think the film "The road" puts it down very drastically, maybe too extreme, but the problem remains.

you can watch it here: http://www.movies-links.tv/movies/the_road/

[Perplex]

Ah well, advantages and disadvantages.. I guess in such a CME scenario , it can get hard to find a safe-heaven for people living in high ICH countries .. I live in Romania near the mountains , in one of not many "evolved" cities, more or less. But not further than 50-70km away are villages where some houses don't have electricity at all, even now .. Other smaller villages live like that ever since. So I suppose a CME won't even be felt in some of these regions ... Not to mention the only weapon they have could be a knife, a fork, or worst case scenario, an axe :). But I still don't recommend anyone coming here in case of a CME lol

[haibane]

Not to mention the only weapon they have could be a knife, a fork, or worst case scenario, an axe :). But I still don't recommend anyone coming here in case of a CME lol
I think you'll be surprised when they dig out old rifles and such like from bellow their kitchen floor or in their gardens, well preserved from the times of WW2 or even older ... Such are the habits in such remote places where people have always had to fend for themselves, along with hiding booze and other valuable stuff in this manner : )

[Wood]

Hunting is popular in Spain and I think I've read there are around two million shotguns/rifles around. I know in rural areas it is quite common for people to have one at home. In particular, in remote areas in the north-west of Spain there are plenty of wildlife like wild boars, deer and even a few wolves, and bears are being re-introduced.

[samvado]

WHY SPAIN

I have been thinking about relocating for a while now. I started off with EARTH and cut the regions that didn't apply or didnt appeal.

1) It had to be Europe because I had to be able to GET there by land within rasonable time, in case of emergency even with a bicycle.
2) It had to be WARM because keeping you warm in winter is half the years work .
3) It had to be WARM because things grow easier and more often where its warm and you dont need as many cloth
4) It had to be somewhat elevated (above 200m) to avoid small to medium tsunamis
5) It had to be lightly populated with big cities far away or hard to reach or no being in the obvious path of someone leaving such a city in search for supplies
6) Land had to be cheap
7) It had to be possible for a German to legaly obtain land
8) Major war zones had to be far away
9) Water would be advantageous but not essential if it rains, if no rain a well is a must
10) If the local are accustomed to foreigners it would be much eaiser to settle in (like in tourist regions) - but not a major tourist region because too many would know about it.
11) caves or defunct slopes and tunnels nearby are a plus
12) Not a small island because sooner or later you will be found by the wrong people

If you put these all together you get the region in spain I suggested.

[Wood]

If you put these all together you get the region in spain I suggested.

I happen to know well the area you have chosen. I think it is a good option (I'll probably be around there if anything bad happens) but not exactly as you expect. Winters are cold there with snow, plenty of rain and cold days. Think of a weather similar to that of the atlantic coast of France or to southern England, but with warmer summers. It is not a dry area, you'll find plenty of natural springs and rivers, and rain. Land is not as expensive as in other sunnier areas of Spain but not as cheap as it used to be due to the property bubble. Also land is very divided and it might be hell to locate the owners since they'll likely be living elsewhere. People is definitely not exposed to foreigners apart from pilgrims in the Jacob's trail. Also people there tend to not speak spanish but 'galician' (and very few english or other languages). Locals understand spanish but are not used to it. I think that should not be a big problem if you speak spanish but a minor issue. Finally, locals tend to be older people since younger couples have migrated to cities (maybe this will revert if there is a catastrophic event).

Regarding height, central Spain (Castilla) is surrounded by mountains and it is quite high. Madrid for example is 700m from the sea level. The area you have chosen is part of those mountains.

There is an international 'eco-village' in the area but I suspect it is not quite what you have in mind: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vivaleon.com%2Fecoaldea_de_matavenero.htm&sl=es&tl=en

EDIT: Anyone interested just google for 'Matavenero', it seems there is plenty of information about it including photographs and videos.

[Swanny]

Best bet is a sail boat :fish2:

[samvado]

EDIT: Anyone interested just google for 'Matavenero', it seems there is plenty of information about it including photographs and videos.

amazing coincidence, a spanish friend of mine from gomera who has a business in madrid just a few days ago sent me the link for that commune. Quite a few germans live there it seems. It is pretty hippie but not bad to have as neighbors. I am possibly going this summer to visit and check it out.

thank you for the other info, very interesting. and no. unfortunately I dont speak any spanish, but am willing to learn :-)
gomera, where I spend most of the time in spain, really is german with spanish government.

would you know prices for plain land (no buildings) per square meter or acre ? I searched but couldnt read the ads.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Best bet is a sail boat :fish2:

yes, if you have one (expensive) and live near a river

[bashi]

Matbe its wise to look were everybody is and how to get in contact wjth each other in case of emergency. I think "plans" will change along the way during periods of emergency. Most important is to work in groups...

Sam has to come from Hamburg, Me I live in the Southwest of the Netherlands couple of hundred meters from the waterfront. Bashi is in th UK (I presume?)
Others who want to join "our"group...?



I am in Germany.

[Swami]

Best bet is a sail boat :fish2:

That's been crossing my mind many times Admiral.........

¤=[Post Update]=¤



I am in Germany.

What about Schwarzwald...?

[Swanny]

If all hell breaks lose there will be plenty of boats with owners hundreds of miles away that won't be thinking about their boat but will be thinking of survival.
Free boat anyone?? :)

[Swami]

If all hell breaks lose there will be plenty of boats with owners hundreds of miles away that won't be thinking about their boat but will be thinking of survival.
Free boat anyone?? :)

BUT, you need to be near the equator. Due to centrifugal forces (spin of the Earth) there is a mountain of water at the equator. IF the Earth's spin changes you need to be on the highest point otherwise tsunami's will destroy yourboat.

Yes Admiral, I have already choosen the ship I will scoop when the **** hits the fan in case of still being around in the place where I am right now......

[Wood]

would you know prices for plain land (no buildings) per square meter or acre ? I searched but couldnt read the ads.

Land in northern Spain is splitted in small plots owned by many people, unlikely central and southern Spain where few people owns large estates. In northern Spain people was historically free, owners of the land they worked, while in other areas they were working estates owned by feudal lords.

Many places have lost most its population since the 1960s, when people migrated elsewhere. It is difficult to locate the owners and certainly there is no central, online, site to buy land in rural places in the area, just for cities. I think your best bet is to move there, drive around, find villages you like and ask the locals (bring a translator :) ). There are plenty of abandoned villages and old stone houses partially/totally ruined.

Maybe the people in that eco-village could help you.

[bashi]

Considering all possible scenarios, the Alps are the best bet, i think.
I have experienced and lived through several breakdowns of law and order in other countries.
You will be surprised how fast and extreme things can change. Self-defense mechanisms are declaring any unknown person as a threat.
I had a situation where a friend wanted to take shelter in my place during a week long riot. He was grabbed by others and explained that he wanted only to reach to me. He was wearing the wrong stuff and they decided to kill him only because he was a stranger to them. He pleaded and begged and was finally brought to my place for identification. That saved his life.

Without even slightly established roots, it will be a hard stand to relocate. Communication is key! One misunderstanding and you can be in serious trouble.
Last summer i spend 4 months in the alps:
In the Alps you have wood and milk; water and slope for a small hydro- power "plant"; not so much language barriers, restricted access for strangers, many self-sufficient people who are used to be cut off during winter/snow; it will be easy to establish a self-defence group to guard a valley when TSHTF.

.

[samvado]

Without even slightly established roots, it will be a hard stand to relocate. Communication is key! One misunderstanding and you can be in serious trouble.
Last summer i spend 4 months in the alps:
In the Alps you have wood and milk; water and slope for a small hydro- power "plant"; not so much language barriers, restricted access for strangers, many self-sufficient people who are used to be cut off during winter/snow; it will be easy to establish a self-defence group to guard a valley when TSHTF.


it is true, if you are known to the people who live there you have a huge advantage. but we wont be known to anyone in any area we go because we havnt even decided which area that should be. so that argument is a none argument.
the alps are not good for many reasons (and good for some).

ALPS BAD BECAUSE

1) Too central, anyone moving east-west or north-south will potentially pass thru, and many have weapons because of war-zones naerby
2) Geologically instable (in comparison to spain VERY MUCH so)
4) Too cold already - let the iceage begin and you are under GLACIERS. some scenarios call for a "little iceage" soon like in the 1500s.
5) Real estate is expensive compared to Spain.
6) If you choose Austria the laws are VERY restrictive - wouldnt mean anything after TSHTF but means the world for preparations (Building a shack there is more difficoult due to red tape than a house in spain)
7) You are a LOOOONG way away from the ocean. than may not be only bad BUT should you ever divert to fishing or relocation by boat it may.
8) You need a self-defense group .. in spain you probably woudnt.
9) I wont be there to tell stories by the fireside .. <ggg>

AND THE ALPS ARE FULL OF OR IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO MANY NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS: YOU CANT SMELL THEM BUT THEY MIGHT KILL YOU.

spain has one near barcelona. thats the only one even close to the place I favor.

[samvado]

BUT, you need to be near the equator. Due to centrifugal forces (spin of the Earth) there is a mountain of water at the equator. IF the Earth's spin changes you need to be on the highest point otherwise tsunami's will destroy yourboat.

Yes Admiral, I have already choosen the ship I will scoop when the **** hits the fan in case of still being around in the place where I am right now......

If the earth spin changes you can be ANYWHERE and will need a new body, unless you are a microbe
good news: that will not happen. it has not in the past and will not in the future.

[Swanny]

BUT, you need to be near the equator. Due to centrifugal forces (spin of the Earth) there is a mountain of water at the equator. IF the Earth's spin changes you need to be on the highest point otherwise tsunami's will destroy yourboat.

Yes Admiral, I have already choosen the ship I will scoop when the **** hits the fan in case of still being around in the place where I am right now......

I've been thinking of a nice little life boat, can't sink them :)

[Swami]

I've been thinking of a nice little life boat, can't sink them :)

You are lucky Admiral, I'm in that business..........

[lightblue]

god guards the ones who guard themselves.. good luck to you all..

i think i'll play it by the ear... don't even have a driving licence to swear by.. i was never interested in cars, or needed one. i'm in london, live whitin 3 miles of where i work, so i get about on my push bike during summer time and i use a local bus when the weather's bad. i am on an elevated patch of london, so if the thames barrier should break (probably will), this will be a riviera...see what happens...l :unsure:

[Swanny]

You are lucky Admiral, I'm in that business..........

Excellent :)
Can you recommend a good one??

[samvado]

god guards the ones who guard themselves.. good luck to you all..

i think i'll play it by the ear... don't even have a driving licence to swear by.. i was never interested in cars, or needed one. i'm in london, live whitin 3 miles of where i work, so i get about on my push bike during summer time and i use a local bus when the weather's bad. i am on an elevated patch of london, so if the thames barrier should break (probably will), this will be a riviera...see what happens...l :unsure:


there may 2 or 3 worse place to be, maybe 4 if I think really hard ...

[Wood]

god guards the ones who guard themselves.. good luck to you all..

i think i'll play it by the ear... don't even have a driving licence to swear by.. i was never interested in cars, or needed one. i'm in london, live whitin 3 miles of where i work, so i get about on my push bike during summer time and i use a local bus when the weather's bad. i am on an elevated patch of london, so if the thames barrier should break (probably will), this will be a riviera...see what happens...l :unsure:

I agree with that. I think there is nothing to worry about. I feel changes are going to be positive, and we will just need to follow our instinct.

[yiolas]

Hi Guys,
It's fine and dandy to plan on getting out of the chaos in the cities after a debilitating CME. But I think that maybe you're getting ahead of yourselves here. I realized this last night when all of a sudden the electrical grid went down in our neighborhood.

Suddenly I found myself in pitch blackness and I had to feel my way around from the office to the kitchen with 3 dogs and a cat around me to find matches to light a candle.

We seem to forget that whatever happens will not catch us by surprise or that it will be during the day time so that we will be able to easily see where our emergency supplies are stored to find what we need .

What I learned from this experience:
1. Have battery backup lighting in the hall ways and in the emergency supply storage room of your home.
2. Regularly check that your flashlights and portable radio have full batteries.
3. Keep spare car and home keys in a set area, so that you don't have to fumble around in the dark to find your car keys.
4. Every room should have some kind of back-up lighting whether it is a small flash light or lantern.
5. You should have a few extra garden solar lights always powered up and ready to use inside the house in case of emergencies.
6. Have a portable kerosene heater for a back-up to your electrical heating system.
7. Always have at least half a tank of gas in your car. You never know when the pumps won't be working.
8. Keep all of your emergency supplies in one place. What's coming will catch us by surprise and we won't have the time to collect them from several different places in the house.
9. Keep a small portable butane cooker in the house. You never know when you might need it for emergencies.

Motto of the story: Planning for long-term off the grid living is important, short-term preparadness to get to the long term is just as important.

[samvado]

To not be missunderstood. Unless I get my DNA up to specs I will MOST LIKELY not live to see anything necessitating these preparations. I'd give it a 1:10 probability (10 for all remains "normal" or better).
However, 20 years ago I would have given it 1:10.000 or less.

Thats the point. I am willing to do SOME spending and working for a policy that protects me against a 10% chance of having to die in chaos.
I probably would still not do it if it wasn't fun at the same time.
So if enough people can be motivated to purchase a policy (translate: invest in the preparation-plans) it will be fun to build the life-boat.
Its not a underground city, its just a shed with some tools in spain and a bit of land to share with friends.
I do it for the fun, I dont have children, if I did I would do it for them too.

[Swami]

Excellent :)
Can you recommend a good one??

Look around here (http://www.cosalt.com/products-services/products/marinesafety.ashx?node=FF1BEB99-39E7-4FCE-82FE-DA1FD857277F&pr_id=3) Admiral...

Just heard I will be in business one more year at the company I work right now. We are doing business regulary with the company mentioned in the link above.

Proffesional stuff...!
http://www.cosalt.com/cosalt/th.ashx?filename=/_assets/images/products/Surviva%2025%20person%20self-righting%20liferaft.jpg

[Lee-B]

god guards the ones who guard themselves.. good luck to you all..

i am on an elevated patch of london, so if the thames barrier should break (probably will), this will be a riviera...see what happens...l :unsure:

I'll be well and truly mashed if the thames barrier fails, plus living in a basement flat, even more fun. I think I'll invest in some heroin instead, become a junkie for the day and go out with a bang, rather than drowning!

[Swami]

I'll be well and truly mashed if the thames barrier fails, plus living in a basement flat, even more fun. I think I'll invest in some heroin instead, become a junkie for the day and go out with a bang, rather than drowning!

Wont break, the water will flow over................

[Lee-B]

Wont break, the water will flow over................

Either way, people will drown, any specific reason for pedantics?

[Swami]

Cheap Solar panels........

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.18168

http://www1.dealextreme.com/productimages/sku_18168_1.jpg

[Swanny]

Good deal but will they still work after a CME?? :p

[bashi]

My source:
Already built up in Alu-frame:


http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/110383/Solarmodul-SPS10W-12V/0509082

[Swami]

Good deal but will they still work after a CME?? :p

You have to find out which diodes are used in these solarpanels. Buy them and store them away. Once they are fried you can replace them..........

I think the panel itselfs is solarproof but ask the Bashi-man, he's the expert.

[bashi]

Good deal but will they still work after a CME?? :p

yes ..............

[Swami]

My source:
Already built up in Alu-frame:


http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/110383/Solarmodul-SPS10W-12V/0509082


Okidoki, thx for that one. Ther's a Conrad in Holland also......

What should be the power of the battery used with this panel, Ah......?

[lightblue]

I'll be well and truly mashed if the thames barrier fails, plus living in a basement flat, even more fun. I think I'll invest in some heroin instead, become a junkie for the day and go out with a bang, rather than drowning!

lee, i watched a documentary on that subject a while ago...it is more likely than unlikely that the barrier would give in..there's lots and lots of engineering oversights that heve been made in the past, which makes it very fregile even under the normal circumstances...

why not move from sw1 to the north of the town..at lest,..you'd have a flat with a view one day.. :fish2:

[bashi]

Okidoki, thx for that one. Ther's a Conrad in Holland also......

What should be the power of the battery used with this panel, Ah......?

12V with charge regulator.
Battery depends on application: For LED light, with only max 10% discharge per cyclus you can use car batteries; for deeper discharge use boat-batteries (more expensive, as you know)

.

[Swami]

My source:
Already built up in Alu-frame:


http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/110383/Solarmodul-SPS10W-12V/0509082


Do I need extra diodes with this one.....?
Ampere-hour........How much...?? 40-50-60...??
I'll goo for deep cycle batteries...... or AGM


¤=[Post Update]=¤



12V with charge regulator.
Battery depends on application: For LED light, with only max 10% discharge per cyclus you can use car batteries; for deeper discharge use boat-batteries (more expensive, as you know)

.

Is chargeregulator not included in this panel...?

[bashi]

Is the LT40 diesel?
When I was 16 years old, i was sitting on a bike behind and had a very serious accident. That cured me of riding a bike. So i do not have even a licence. Even if i would try to make one, my skills driving a motorbike would not be enough for a emergency rush down trip to spain. I would slow you only down, because i would not be able to drive fast and will need many stops. Wouldnt it be better to go in convoy bike + LT40/transporter ?


Sam,
you forgot to answer these questions

[bashi]

I have the PX 50. Here: http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/110249/Solarmodul-PX-50/0509082
There is a diode at its back.

Dont know for the smaller ones, but if not take a 1N5400 diode (50V 3A)., or similar. they cost only pennies.

[bashi]

These are just great: http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/FastSearch.html?search=led+streifen&x=16&y=9&=Schnellsuche&initial=true

Put a diode-bridge with a zener-diode against high voltage, then seal it between 2 transparent tape: rerady is your polarity proof, water proof LED cave-light for just a few bucks .

[Swami]

I have the PX 50. Here: http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/110249/Solarmodul-PX-50/0509082
There is a diode at its back.

Dont know for the smaller ones, but if not take a 1N5400 diode (50V 3A)., or similar. they cost only pennies.

Thx, think I found it all on the Dutch Conrad site. Will buy one this months, and some faradaycages. If I roll up the equipment in silverfoil and cotton (Capacitor) and ground it to the cage (and the cage to the Earth), will it protect the equipment...?

[bashi]

Do I need extra diodes with this one.....?
Ampere-hour........How much...?? 40-50-60...??
I'll goo for deep cycle batteries...... or AGM


¤=[Post Update]=¤



Is chargeregulator not included in this panel...?

No charge regulator included. Check Conrad online for that.

The Ah depends on the load you want to run.
Half a strip of diodes (you can cut one strip into 2 pieces) will draw, i think i remember ~180 milli amp. which is about 2 watts. lets say you are running 4 pieces for 8 hours: 4x 0.18 x 8 = 6 Ah.
So you should then go for a 60 Ah battery, if car, otherwise less.

[Swami]

Wow, I'm flabbergasted of all the info now........

Is it wise to make a list with all thing on it. Its getting a bit to much to keep in mind.....

Diode bridge (pfffffff thats a long time ago I was playing with those things...)

http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Diode_bridge_alt_2.svg/557px-Diode_bridge_alt_2.svg.png

This one....? same principal..?

Only this one is for alternating current, could use it with a PGM........

You were talking about Hydro-electricity. What generator/alternator did you have in mind?

What about a windgenerator? I've got me a brand DC-motor from a carwinch, would that work with water/wind....?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


So you should then go for a 60 Ah battery, if car, otherwise less.

= 10% cycle

I can get semi-traction batteries = 30% ?????

So if I use a 60 Ah could that cause troubles?

[bashi]

Wow, I'm flabbergasted of all the info now........

Is it wise to make a list with all thing on it. Its getting a bit to much to keep in mind.....

Diode bridge (pfffffff thats a long time ago I was playing with those things...)

http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Diode_bridge_alt_2.svg/557px-Diode_bridge_alt_2.svg.png

This one....? same principal..?

Only this one is for alternating current, could use it with a PGM........

You were talking about Hydro-electricity. What generator/alternator did you have in mind?

What about a windgenerator? I've got me a brand DC-motor from a carwinch, would that work with water/wind....?

¤=[Post Update]=¤



= 10% cycle

I can get semi-traction batteries = 30% ?????

So if I use a 60 Ah could that cause troubles?

Nothing will get fried by a CME, only permanent loss of electricity. We are NOT talking about nuclear EMP here.


Look at the pic of the bridge. If you solder on the DC side the diode plus to plus, minus to minus, and on the AC side the power-supply, then you do not have to worry about the polarity-mistakes of the power-supply. Your 12 year old nice can then do the connection.

hydro: self build, low RPM, will do that on site.
wind: the problem is to get a right motor/generator with the right specs. in the long run problems with bearings, blades

What is a semi-trac battery?

[Lee-B]

lee, i watched a documentary on that subject a while ago...it is more likely than unlikely that the barrier would give in..there's lots and lots of engineering oversights that heve been made in the past, which makes it very fregile even under the normal circumstances...

why not move from sw1 to the north of the town..at lest,..you'd have a flat with a view one day.. :fish2:

haha yes, if only things were that simple. I think I'll take the gamble and stay put. If it happens I'll jump in the car and drive to Croydon :)

[Swami]

Traction baterries are used on ships as start-batteries. They give high power for a short peiods........

Semi-traction sits between normal batteries and lightbatteries (on ships)

So these days we sell mostly semi-traction, they can be used for starting and/or light.

Lead-acid has 10% cycle, semi-traction around 30%(+/-). So you can pull more power from them without destroying them. This also mean you have to fill up the used capacity again. I was wondering if semi-traction would work on 60 Ah, or should i go lower...?

Is it handy to bring dry batteries, no fluid in battery, put it i later. What about the water? Batteries need maintanance, without that they will scrap very soon........
(I,ve build me a small waterdistiller to make collodial silver, could we use that water...?)

Do you need firehoses for the Hydro? I can buy for around 3-5 euro's/meter.........

My contract got lenghtened for one more year so I have some more time now to buy more equipment.

It would be handy to have a stash in the neighbourhood of where we want to go. I still got over 6 weeks of free hours left. I could go and check out the place we want to go.....

I think I will vote for the Alps, you a place in mind. We need some kind of connection there, that would make planning/stashing way easier. The cold will let less bugs bite me, its closer than Spain, and in case of emergency dying from cold is way better then burning up........

[bashi]

Traction baterries are used on ships as start-batteries. They give high power for a short peiods........

Semi-traction sits between normal batteries and lightbatteries (on ships)

So these days we sell mostly semi-traction, they can be used for starting and/or light.

Lead-acid has 10% cycle, semi-traction around 30%(+/-). So you can pull more power from them without destroying them. This also mean you have to fill up the used capacity again. I was wondering if semi-traction would work on 60 Ah, or should i go lower...?

All will depend on the load. I think to have a max of 20% on semi-trac will add to the livespan.

Is it handy to bring dry batteries, no fluid in battery, put it i later.
dry batteries is a good idea.

What about the water? Batteries need maintanance, without that they will scrap very soon........
(I,ve build me a small waterdistiller to make collodial silver, could we use that water...?)
of course, but without the silver. acid separately.

Do you need firehoses for the Hydro? I can buy for around 3-5 euro's/meter.........
i dont think. but depends on the place. thought of a small kind of schauberger-whirlpool. high effcient-low RPM

My contract got lenghtened for one more year so I have some more time now to buy more equipment.

It would be handy to have a stash in the neighbourhood of where we want to go. I still got over 6 weeks of free hours left. I could go and check out the place we want to go.....

I think I will vote for the Alps, you a place in mind. We need some kind of connection there, that would make planning/stashing way easier. The cold will let less bugs bite me, its closer than Spain, and in case of emergency dying from cold is way better then burning up........


i have 2 places in mind: Generally one on the northern part of the alps, towards the austrian/bavarian side; one on the southern part towards the italian side.
I have connection for both places; i was in the northern spot last year, but the guy will not be back before - i guess - 2 months.
the other in the southern is new, have to cross-check.
both are minimum 800 meters high, one very remote, the other in a small settlement at valley end.

.

[samvado]

Sam,
you forgot to answer these questions

Yes, the LT40 is an old wirbelkammer diesel, it will work after the cme if I park it on a downhill slope.
I have protected it with microlon, expensive stuff but makes an engine almost failproof due to mechanical failure.

if you are too paranoid to drive a diesel enfield, which really is a bicycle with small engine attached ( 6 hp, 80 km/h max, 1.5 l/100 km) do a phobia cure (NLP) works like a charm every time for all induced fears and takes about 15 minutes to do.
if you take a 20l-reserve you'll get with the 25 l built in together to south france before having to refuel. you could take 40l, that would take you all the way to the target.

A convoy is a bit more fun that travelling alone, but appart from that , unless you have a tank in it its not going to give you any advantage over a single car. if bridges are collapsed or tunnels unpassable or cars mashed up over all lanes you are stuck. you will then have to divert into dense populated areas from the autobahn. not a good idea if your vehicle is one of the few still moving.

if you cant fight camouflage is most important. a small motorbike is best, it is fast enough to outrun anything else (except a faster bike) and can go thru the worst smashes and even if you have to divert you can perceivably go cross fields.

you can not carry much but if this plan works out you wouldnt have to. all emergency stuff is already in place at the target. I am 57 and not an athlete. if I can do it you can.

[lightblue]

so what happens once you've picked a location? how do you go about that - buy a house/rent or stay in tents in the open? how many people are you bringing along/planning with..they'd better have different sets of skills ...how do we rate a toscan coutryside:blink: ? a friend owns an old stone hill famhouse, but is otherwise tied up in another part of the world..

[Wood]

Cheap Solar panels........
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.18168


Not cheap at all, IMO. Those are 1 watt pannels (6V, 0.160A), and $16.79 per watt is way too much. You can find better deals on ebay for example. Buying single cells (that need to be soldered together + framed) you can get around $3 per watt including shipping plus what you expend in a frame (some wood panels and transparent rigid plastic for the sun facing side).

[Swami]

Not cheap at all, IMO. Those are 1 watt pannels (6V, 0.160A), and $16.79 per watt is way too much. You can find better deals on ebay for example. Buying single cells (that need to be soldered together + framed) you can get around $3 per watt including shipping plus what you expend in a frame (some wood panels and transparent rigid plastic for the sun facing side).

Thx Wood,

But I also think tthat its way easier to buy this equipment instead of solding them toghether, for "some" Avalonians in here.......
Not everybody is "programmed" the way you & I are..............:suspicious:

[bashi]

swami, i send you a PM

[bashi]

so what happens once you've picked a location? how do you go about that - buy a house/rent or stay in tents in the open? how many people are you bringing along/planning with..they'd better have different sets of skills ...how do we rate a toscan coutryside:blink: ? a friend owns an old stone hill famhouse, but is otherwise tied up in another part of the world..

light, we are just brainstoming yet. mentally exploring some options. In which region is that farmhouse ?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Not cheap at all, IMO. Those are 1 watt pannels (6V, 0.160A), and $16.79 per watt is way too much. You can find better deals on ebay for example. Buying single cells (that need to be soldered together + framed) you can get around $3 per watt including shipping plus what you expend in a frame (some wood panels and transparent rigid plastic for the sun facing side).

Yes, any good source in europe ?

[Swami]

swami, i send you a PM

Still in the proces of processing it..............:thumb:

[bashi]

Yes, the LT40 is an old wirbelkammer diesel, it will work after the cme if I park it on a downhill slope.
I have protected it with microlon, expensive stuff but makes an engine almost failproof due to mechanical failure.

if you are too paranoid to drive a diesel enfield, which really is a bicycle with small engine attached ( 6 hp, 80 km/h max, 1.5 l/100 km) do a phobia cure (NLP) works like a charm every time for all induced fears and takes about 15 minutes to do.
if you take a 20l-reserve you'll get with the 25 l built in together to south france before having to refuel. you could take 40l, that would take you all the way to the target.

A convoy is a bit more fun that travelling alone, but appart from that , unless you have a tank in it its not going to give you any advantage over a single car. if bridges are collapsed or tunnels unpassable or cars mashed up over all lanes you are stuck. you will then have to divert into dense populated areas from the autobahn. not a good idea if your vehicle is one of the few still moving.

if you cant fight camouflage is most important. a small motorbike is best, it is fast enough to outrun anything else (except a faster bike) and can go thru the worst smashes and even if you have to divert you can perceivably go cross fields.

you can not carry much but if this plan works out you wouldnt have to. all emergency stuff is already in place at the target. I am 57 and not an athlete. if I can do it you can.

well, i will think about getting my mental screws tightened.
But how about the LT40? Is it a "clunker", Rostlaube, without TÜV or is it on the road, ok and registered?

[Wood]

Yes, any good source in europe ?

I have not bought any yet. I am looking at cells from the USA (maybe slightly damaged cells). To buy in Europe I've found german panels on ebay use to be reasonably priced. Go to ebay and search for 'Solarmodul' or 'Solarpanel' or 'Solarzellen', and check sellers with good ratings. That's what I would do. Of course you get better price per watt with larger panels (i.e. 100w) than with 10w panels.

I am thinking a good source of electricity for people that has not bought any solar panel could be a car. It should work as an emergency diesel or gasoline generator by turning it on and connecting an inverter to the battery. I do not know what kind of power it could generate but I guess it could power some CFC or led lamps. If you own a car I guess it is a good idea to always keep the tank full. Of course an inverter (i.e. a cheap 300w inverter) is needed, or a bunch of 12v lights.

Another idea is to use the alternator of a car + some kind of gear to build a wind turbine (e.g. a savonious one) or a turbine powered by a water stream. I am not sure what kind of power it is possible to get from that but I'd test it in case it is needed :)

EDIT: I think it would be very useful to have a "crank flashlight" and a "crank radio".

[Vidya Moksha]

i have 2 places in mind: Generally one on the northern part of the alps, towards the austrian/bavarian side; one on the southern part towards the italian side.
I have connection for both places; i was in the northern spot last year, but the guy will not be back before - i guess - 2 months.
the other in the southern is new, have to cross-check.
both are minimum 800 meters high, one very remote, the other in a small settlement at valley end.

.

Interesting thread, i hope you dont need to do this, but fun in the planning eh? I made my choice and came to NZ... However I lived for a while in an abandoned village in the north of Italy. close to the swiss alps... houses, timber, spring water, fruit and nut trees are already there... maybe 6 people live in the place, 800m above sea level, access by foot only.. if you are interested i can post photos and directions, if you want to keep it quiet, but are still interested, then pm me.

[bashi]

Interesting thread, i hope you dont need to do this, but fun in the planning eh? I made my choice and came to NZ... However I lived for a while in an abandoned village in the north of Italy. close to the swiss alps... houses, timber, spring water, fruit and nut trees are already there... maybe 6 people live in the place, 800m above sea level, access by foot only.. if you are interested i can post photos and directions, if you want to keep it quiet, but are still interested, then pm me.

That sounds very good.

[Swami]

Been thinking about this car, not very fast but will keep going.....
approx. 1980

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=697

@Bashi: How about the diodebridge in the alternator of this one, spare parts.......?

[samvado]

well, i will think about getting my mental screws tightened.
But how about the LT40? Is it a "clunker", Rostlaube, without TÜV or is it on the road, ok and registered?

its worth about 20.000,- euros. its the last from the old series, built in 1995 but has lived in a barn for over 10 years. engine below 100.000. Those engines are for trucks, they last 500.000 and more. no rust whatsoever. 400 W Solar, shower, garage, GFK housing, the works. I live in it since 1 year now. its a great experience, compared to a flat.

but as i said, it will be left behind, I will not travel on 4 wheels for the reasons now ad infinitum explained.

[bashi]

Been thinking about this car, not very fast but will keep going.....
approx. 1980


@Bashi: How about the diodebridge in the alternator of this one, spare parts.......?

sorry , i have to pass it along...

[samvado]

When I started this tread I was thinking along the lines of organizational debate, meaning

1) where to do it
2) how to pay for it
3) whom to invite (or alternatively let everybody in)

etc.

discussing technical details is a **bit** premature and IMO should be done in the other threads that deal with these specific issues.

I have put down a few lists to that respect but they have been ignored by and large, if not totaly so.

I have to admit I find this unorganized way of dealing with the issue unfit for a thing of such width and possible impact, it needs structure and sincere planing.

I further do not believe that within avalon the necessary "room" will be created as this would divert quite a bit from the "official" raison d'etre.

[Swanny]

If you don't want the LT leave the keys in it and let us know where it is please :)

[bashi]

If you don't want the LT leave the keys in it and let us know where it is please :)

Yes, thats a brilliant idea! I am volunteering to pick it up.

[Swami]

If you don't want the LT leave the keys in it and let us know where it is please :)

You fool.........:bump2::bump2::bump2:

[Swami]

When I started this tread I was thinking along the lines of organizational debate, meaning

1) where to do it
2) how to pay for it
3) whom to invite (or alternatively let everybody in)

etc.

discussing technical details is a **bit** premature and IMO should be done in the other threads that deal with these specific issues.

I have put down a few lists to that respect but they have been ignored by and large, if not totaly so.

I have to admit I find this unorganized way of dealing with the issue unfit for a thing of such width and possible impact, it needs structure and sincere planing.

I further do not believe that within avalon the necessary "room" will be created as this would divert quite a bit from the "official" raison d'etre.

The most beautiful thing, I learned in my life last couple of years, is to go with the flow.
This my friend brings moments of Bliss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LDxEcm0yjA)
..... and its in moments of Bliss that understanding Universal Vibes occur......:twitch:
(Maybe 'Deutsche Grundlichkeit' doesn't work no more these days.......:noidea:)

[lightblue]

if there are going to be earth movements, what are the most stable parts of europe?
also, rivers may flow over, there may be flooding...what's the case with the danube - for example? i know the thames barrier is pathetic, but that's because it's tidal...the danube should be ok..
then i have another principled dilemma - doesn't running away bring bad luck? why do we think we have to rescue ourselves?..because it's a natural instict i suppose...

bashi, i forgot where exactly the farmhouse in toscany was - i'll skype my friend these days..l :yes2:

[bashi]

if there are going to be earth movements, what are the most stable parts of europe?
also, rivers may flow over, there may be flooding...how are we on danube for example? i know the thames barrier is pathetic...then i have another principled dilemma - doesn't running away bring bad luck? why do we think we have to rescue ourselves?..because it's a natural instict i suppose...

bashi, i forgot where exactly the farmhouse in toscany was - i'll skype my friend tomoorrow...l :yes2:


light, there are many theories about so called "safe" places. Different theory - different places.
I did some "research" to find a reasonable consensus, and came up with the alps. i don`t think that england or france is a good option. i think everybody has to do his/her own research and then, based on it, a decision is been made.
As you can see, we are the fearful, paranoid people, whom you shouldnt trust ;)

BTW Bill Ryan also sits in the alps. only because of montaineering?

[lightblue]

i've nothing against anywhere or alps, only i don't speak german...and i think that in the event human factor would be the most important - who you are with/in neighbourhood of.....it is also possible that people will pull together and display solidarity and not animosity ...unlike what samvado is fearing :fear: ...i think if he carries on fearing it, he would face just that, not that i wish it on him...in my case, this is not so much about researching any more, but about what's feasable..

[Swami]

light, there are many theories about so called "safe" places. Different theory - different places.
I did some "research" to find a reasonable consensus, and came up with the alps. i don`t think that england or france is a good option. i think everybody has to do his/her own research and then, based on it, a decision is been made.
As you can see, we are the fearful, paranoid people, whom you shouldnt trust ;)

BTW Bill Ryan also sits in the alps. only because of montaineering?

You just answered a question thats been cruising my braincells for a while......:biggrin1:

[samvado]

BTW Bill Ryan also sits in the alps. only because of montaineering?[/COLOR][/SIZE]

he sits in the alps because of his girlfriend